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The Prestige TV Podcast
Netflix’s Hit One-Shot Show, ‘Adolescence’: The Surprise of the Year?
01:00:19
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- [00:00]
Joanna Robinson
This episode is brought to you by Coffee Mate. I love a good crossover, especially when it's with a show you love. This time the crossover isn't with another character, but with Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has collaborated with HBO's the White Lotus to bring us two tropically inspired, limited time only flavors, Pina colada and Thai iced coffee flavored creamers. And as a coffee fanatic, I can't wait to try them. All right. Thai iced coffee in my coffee. Pina colada in coffee. I am adventurous when it comes to new flavors, but this sounds truly different. I'm picturing something tropical and refreshing, like a beachside cocktail, but with a coffee twist. Definitely curious to see how it all comes together. Let's try it. Mmm. The Thai iced coffee is amazing. It tastes like, like an authentic Thai iced coffee with that, you know, the condensed milk sweetness to it. I. I was very skeptical about the pina colada, but it's surprisingly delicious. The coconut and pineapple notes make it feel like a vacation in a cup. Perfect for sipping while watching the latest episode of HBO's original series, the White Lotus Coffee Mates. The White Lotus flavors are only available for a limited time, so try them now and stream HBO's original series on Max. This episode of the Prestige TV Podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's the White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors, Thai iced coffee and Pina colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only, so for the love of coffee, go try them now. Foreign I'm Joanna Robinson.
- [02:00]
Rob Mahoney
I'm Rob Mahoney and we have a.
- [02:01]
Joanna Robinson
Very special emergency crash together pod for you here on a Tuesday. We're here to talk to you about a Netflix series that dropped over the weekend. Adolescence. Four episodes for one hour. Episodes dropped over the weekend. We're gonna talk to you about the show. We're gonna at the top of this episode, if you haven't seen Adolescents, but we know some of you sickos click on these episodes and listen to them even though you haven't seen the thing. So if you haven't seen it at the top, we're going to talk about what it is and whether or not Rob and I recommend that you watch it, and then we'll get in, you know, and then maybe you decide to press pause, go watch it, come back and listen for more. We're gonna do all that Very quickly I want to mention that this is dropping on a Tuesday. Tomorrow, Wednesday we will have not only our White Lotus episode five coverage, but Rob and I are doing a live Q and A at noon Pacific lunchtime.
- [02:52]
Rob Mahoney
We sure are. Will we be bobbing for pineapples live on air? Joe, can you commit to that?
- [02:58]
Joanna Robinson
No, but what if I brought some of the pineapple high chews that they have here at the office? Does that count?
- [03:04]
Rob Mahoney
That's. You're not even trying.
- [03:06]
Joanna Robinson
The pineapple high chews are the sneaky, the best high cheese. Okay, so listen, Severance noon pineapple BYO pineapple. We're going to do a severance Q and a live mailbag sort of situation. You can send questions in advance to.
- [03:23]
Rob Mahoney
Where Rob Mahoney, coincidentally to pineapple bobbing@gmail.com or as always to prestige TV Spotify.com.
- [03:32]
Joanna Robinson
But also we will be answering questions sort of live from the chat inside of this Q A which you can find on YouTube on the Ringer TV channel at noon on Wednesday. And then it also will just be be there after that so that you can watch it later. But why not join us for lunch or I don't know, a 3pm snack if you're on the east coast or other. Other time zones. And then we will have our severance finale pod up on Thursday night rather than the usual Friday morning. But then we will be doing another pod at the top of next week to sort of get gather your reactions to the finale and our look ahead to the future and we might have some extra bonuses stuff on that episode as well.
- [04:12]
Rob Mahoney
Joe, that's a lot of pots.
- [04:15]
Joanna Robinson
That's a lot.
- [04:16]
Rob Mahoney
Some stuff, that's some content for your feed.
- [04:19]
Joanna Robinson
That's great. We might also be covering the studio. Don't worry about it. It's a lot. We're doing fine. We're having a great time here and in this, this content nirvana we find ourselves in. So let's talk about adolescence. Four episodes on Netflix. It's one hour each episode. It's a British show and the Premise is a 13 year old boy is arrested on suspicion of a very serious crime. And we sort of follow the investigation over time from there. The sort of hook of the show, a reason why it's breaking through in conversation among other things is the fact that each of these four one hour episodes are shot as in one shot. Yeah, they're oners. And as far as I can tell from behind this, like in interviews and behind the scenes footage, these are actual oners, not digitally seamed Oners. And we'll sort of talk about the extraordinary process.
- [05:12]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [05:12]
Joanna Robinson
Of. Of making this show. We can talk about that, but this is. This is a show written by Jack Thorne, who has done a bunch of adaptive IP work that is like, hit or miss for me, but then a lot of, like, original work that I find more interesting. Like, he wrote the Cursed Child. He wrote the. For the His Dark Material series, but then he's also done, like, this is England and a bunch of other stuff. And then Stephen Graham, who is one of my favorite actors and is really, like, doing some interesting stuff with his career right now. There's your Venoms, the Last Dances, and then there's also this. But he's extraordinary on this show. So, Rob, what before we got the text from our producer Justin on Sunday being like, hey, do you guys want to crash an adolescence pod? Yes. You. You and I both had heard about this show.
- [06:08]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. So the word of mouth was exceptionally strong, I would say.
- [06:11]
Joanna Robinson
Absolutely. You and I both were like, yes, we will. Because we have heard nothing but excitement around the show. So what had you heard that got you excited about the show that. That, you know, made you side text me being like, I want to do this. Do you want to do this, Joe? Sort of thing?
- [06:25]
Rob Mahoney
I think it was that it was a surprise that it caught people off guard that it just kind of popped up on Netflix without a ton of fanfare, despite it being a pretty extravagant production. And so people happen upon this in their feed, try it, because maybe they love Stephen Graham. Maybe they just are looking for something to watch. And I think if you don't know what you're getting into, this show can. Can really knock you out. Like, it's pretty heavy emotional territory that they're getting into. As you might guess from the subject matter, like, anytime a child is involved in some sort of serious, serious crime, we're wading into something pretty deep. I think it handles those themes and those ideas about as well as a project like this can. And I don't know how you feel overall, Joe, but I would say from this, like, at a distance, trying to decide should you watch adolescence or not. I would give it basically my strongest possible recommendation if you have the stomach for some more serious, like, true to cultural commentary of our real world sorts of themes.
- [07:23]
Joanna Robinson
I think this is a really easy. A really easy, yes, you should watch a recommendation and also just a really easy show to decide whether or not you want to watch. If you watch the first episode and you, like, you'll know that's the show. You know what I mean? Both sort of like stomach churning aspect and also just can I hang with the cadence of this hour shot in one continuous shot? So we'll talk about all of that. So that's. Yeah, we give it our recommendation. We think you should watch it. If you haven't, press pause, go watch it.
- [08:02]
Rob Mahoney
Don't just listen to us, listen to everyone else who's watching this show and is driving it up the Netflix charts on a daily basis.
- [08:08]
Joanna Robinson
I got. So I was over at a friend's house on Thursday night and she said, have you watched Adolescence? She's. She's in the biz. She's like, have you watched Adolescence? I was like, no. She was like, it's. She's like, it's their baby reindeer this year. Is like how she sort of.
- [08:21]
Rob Mahoney
I think that might be disrespectful to this show.
- [08:24]
Joanna Robinson
I agree. But like in terms of how Netflix is thinking, like this is how we win the, the miniseries category at all the award shows. Like this is sort of how they're thinking. So she's in like publicity. So that's sort of like how she was characterizing it. I agree. I think this is way better than baby reindeer. But just in terms of like a British phenomena show on Netflix that comes out of nowhere. She was like warning me on the Thursday before it dropped on the Friday. And then Friday I get the text from Chris Ryan who's like, Joanna Adolescence. And I was like, oh, no. And then I started hearing from a bunch of other people. So here we are. So go watch it. If you haven't. If you've already watched it or you or you are one of those sickos who wants to stay around anyway, I will say this. I want to say if you're one of our beloved sickos who listens, who likes to listen to us natter at each other without having watched a thing. That is great. We welcome you. I will just want to premise the framework of the show for you to help you listen to this. Four episodes takes place over. It's 13 months. Is. Is the time span of these from arrest to the end of the story. First episode is the arrest and then the sort of booking of. Of the child. Jamie here.
- [09:43]
Rob Mahoney
Do we. Here's the question. Do we want to tip the hand as to what happens beyond episode one. Because I feel like where it goes and how surprising this show is and what it wants to tackle to me is part of the thrill of it.
- [09:54]
Joanna Robinson
Well, I'm presuming. Anyone listening now? Oh, we're.
- [09:57]
Rob Mahoney
We're we're spoiler gloves off at this point. Oh, in that case, you know what, let's just jump straight to the end.
- [10:02]
Joanna Robinson
Okay, so episode one is the arrest. Episode two, they go to the school basically to try to hunt down where the murder weapon is.
- [10:14]
Rob Mahoney
Yep.
- [10:15]
Joanna Robinson
And by the end of episode one, we, we have irrefutable proof that this kid has done a murder. Episode three is essentially a two hander with this kid and a therapist who was sent in to evaluate him as part of the court case. That's I think seven months later, you know, so it's seven months into the investigation and then 13 months is the final episode and that is the boy's family and how everything is sort of impacting them about a year later is sort of where we leave things. So that's, that's just like the basic framework. So there's the police station episode, the school episode, the therapist episode, and the family episode is sort of how I'm kind of reference it as we talk about it. Yeah, I want to talk about a little bit more about some of the talent behind this show, please. So, so Stephen Graham again, who I love. I was at, I was at Pub Trivia on Sunday and at the end of the game they put up a, they just put up like a random movie on the. And it was Snatch, which starts with Babyface, Stephen Graham and Jason Statham. And I got so excited. I know Stephen Graham, I think best. I think the role that he did that made the biggest impression on me was I was a big Boardwalk Empire fan. He played Al Capone on that. And I think I didn't connect him to some of his work that he had done with, you know, a UK accent. And it was one of those, that actor is an American moment. Sort of how I remember coming to, to Stephen Graham, but I'm a huge fan of his. What's your, what's your association with Stephen Graham?
- [11:50]
Rob Mahoney
It's definitely Snatch first and foremost. Although, look, let's, let's put respect on the Venoms names.
- [11:56]
Joanna Robinson
If we must.
- [11:57]
Rob Mahoney
If, if we simply must. I do think like he's had an incredible wide ranging career in terms of what he can pull off on screen. But the physical presence that he brings to something and brings to something like Snatch and brings to his whole genre of like gangster and gangster adjacent roles that he's played throughout his career, I think informs a lot of kind of what is, what is priming us to watch him on screen here in adolescence as Eddie, where there is the implication throughout a lot of the stages of the story of is this character violent? Is this an abusive father? Is this someone who does have an anger problem? And we hear a lot more about it than we end up seeing earlier in the stage of the story. And so we're filling in a lot of the blanks in our minds as to what that looks like. And it looks like Stephen Graham, a dude who's so jacked he's about to pop out of his polo shirt. It's hard not to infer some things about that just from that character and that actor. And they know exactly what they're doing in having him in this role.
- [12:50]
Joanna Robinson
The polo is popping well and you say they know exactly what they're doing having this role. He is the co creator of this show and something I wanted to highlight about him is that. And CR was talking to me about this a little bit like what Stephen Graham has done with. He is much better known in the UK than he is here. He has like an obe like he is. He is a fixture in UK film and television. And what he has done. And this is Sierra's point, sort of like with his fame and his juice, I would say in the last few years, in 2020, he and his wife, who's also an actress and a producer, Hannah Walters, co founded a production company and so they've been making prod projects alongside your Venoms and your other things. And so. And he sort of started to amass a kind of stable of actors like Ashley Walters who plays the lead detective in this, and Aaron Dougherty who plays the therapist in this, were in A Thousand Blows, this like period boxer project that he did also this year with his wife. So. And then the director of Here we.
- [13:53]
Rob Mahoney
Are complaining about recording multiple podcasts and Stephen Graham is just like, yeah, multiple extravagant productions in one calendar year. No big.
- [14:00]
Joanna Robinson
Exactly. The director, Philip Barantini, who directed all the episodes, is best known for directing a film called Boiling Point, which is a oner. It was based on a short film called Boiling Point, which was a winner. And then they did a whole feature film and then a TV series called Boiling Point that is set in a kitchen. You know, so that episode of the Bear. But make it longer and probably more agitating, but I think, you know, collecting directors that he's worked with before, actors that he likes and works with before. I was watching an interview he gave where he was like, at this point in my career, I just like to surround myself with like people who are good at their jobs and pleasant on set.
- [14:39]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [14:39]
Joanna Robinson
And like, that's all I want to do now. And so then this is like a, a passion project of a kind for him. And it was inspired by him, the actor Stephen Graham. It's inspired twofold. One, it's inspired by him, the actor Stephen Graham, having seen a couple news stories about young men doing horrible crimes, violent murders. And he was deeply troubled by that and thought that that should be the subject of, of a show. But also what it sounds like to me, based on some of the interviews that I, that I was looking at, was they, he was asked to do a oner project. So first came the idea of we're going to do a project where each episode is one shot.
- [15:25]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [15:26]
Joanna Robinson
Then what is the subject matter that we want to pair with that? So it's this idea of like, what came first. What came first was this idea of like the hook, which is four episodes, one shot. And I, I want, I want to talk about the advantages and disadvantages of the, of the oner concept in a second because I have a lot of complicated thoughts about it. But I do think it's interesting in this Netflix content world, this idea that like a studio, a streamer comes to you and says, hey, what do you got that you can turn into a project where each episode is a one shot. It's a, you know, it's a content conduit towards storytelling and art. I'm not mad about it necessarily. It's very pragmatic and practical. But I thought that that was sort of an interesting element of how this was put together.
- [16:20]
Rob Mahoney
I think there's a lot of ways where that could have gone horribly wrong. Coloring in the lines that Netflix provides you as far as that kind of structure, this construction. And I don't feel this way about a lot of one shot stuff, which usually can be overly showy, pointless, just for the point of extravagance and the point of kind of showing off the cinematography with no actual narrative value. I think the one shot construction for adolescents specifically brings a lot to the table in terms of the story that they're trying to tell and the impact of how it ultimately hits. There's, there's a couple of different ways in which I think it really, really pays off. And as you, we can kind of circle back to some of that stuff. But if they were filling a brief, I think mission incredibly accomplished as far as that goes.
- [16:59]
Joanna Robinson
And I think it was really smart to keep it to like four episodes. You know, it's not a novel idea for the British model to have a four episode series, but it is unusual in American Television.
- [17:11]
Rob Mahoney
I will say this too. If you haven't seen, if you've already watched the show and you haven't seen any of the behind the scenes featurettes and footage as far as how they made it, it's remarkable to go back and watch and to read about the process where basically it was like a three week.
- [17:25]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [17:26]
Rob Mahoney
Segment into every episode. Week one being rehearsal among just the actors. Week two being a rehearsal with the cameras involved, which you have to understand, like are dancing around and moving through people and out windows in a really kinetic way. Have to be marked out, have to be staged in their way. And then week three is filming two takes a day for five days. And so the idea that given the emotional heft of not just like what these actors have to execute in terms of hitting their marks and the very delicate staging and everything interlocking in such an, such an integral way to the story you're trying to tell, but also deliver the biggest emotional moment in minute 40 of a take is just a ridiculous ask of this cast and the fact that everyone is so game for it and so good at it. Look, Stephen Graham has found a hell of a troupe. If this is his troupe, I think he needs to look no further.
- [18:15]
Joanna Robinson
I mean, especially since the biggest burden is on this actor, Owen Cooper, who's.
- [18:21]
Rob Mahoney
Oh my God, this kid who is.
- [18:22]
Joanna Robinson
Incredible in the show and a couple other kids too. Like, you know, there's like several young performers who are asked to do some really heavy lifting emotionally in these episodes. The idea that, yeah, if you. And then you fuck up a line and your, your beautiful reaction you gave. So those behind the scenes sort of featurettes are incredible to watch. They used. It's usually sort of handheld onto certain cranes and that sort of stuff. But there is one drone. The flashiest sort of like, thing is end of episode two, drone shot, which I didn't need, but like, but let's, let's sort of go through like the advantages and disadvantages of.
- [19:03]
Rob Mahoney
Damn, you're anti drone. This is a tough corner for you to be on, Joe. You hate you're pro drone. I'm not actually pro dr, but that.
- [19:12]
Joanna Robinson
Do you love it? You love a drone?
- [19:13]
Rob Mahoney
I don't, I don't actually love a drone. I want to be very clear for everyone listening at home, there's a facetious comment, I'm not pro drone, but I'm pro that. I'm pro that drone shot. I am pro.
- [19:26]
Joanna Robinson
No, I mean, no, I wasn't anti that shot. It just was. It was an ambitious bit of flair. Yes, that I didn't need for the episode to be great. But like doesn't not work. Does that make sense?
- [19:39]
Rob Mahoney
That. That does make sense. I think the fact that you can go from chase scene into character, beat into flyaway drone shot into extreme close up on Steven Graham in A1 or format, it's just like I've never seen that before. And so I'm, I'm extremely down for that element of that execution.
- [19:56]
Joanna Robinson
It's dazzling. Or even just watching them, like even inside of the family's home, you know, a mid size ish home with a kind of tight staircase. Watching the. Behind the scenes of them handing the camera up the staircase to capture people on the stairs is incredible stuff.
- [20:15]
Rob Mahoney
But yeah, I'm glad you point that out because like the, the oner stuff as it relates to a drone shot or flying out the window is naturally sort of arresting and dazzling. But how you bank corners in a tight English home does not make sense. Like geometric sense. I have no idea how they pulled.
- [20:30]
Joanna Robinson
It off and I think that I don't. Okay, let's talk about it this way. So Graham said, and, and I, I love this idea. Stephen Graham said it was. His note was I never want the camera to not be following a character.
- [20:47]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [20:47]
Joanna Robinson
I don't want the camera just wandering hall. So even when we get to the second episode, the police. No, in the first episode in the police station, we're wandering all around but we are given like various sergeants and nurses and stuff like that. Or a lawyer that like when we go in and out of rooms, we're following that person as they're sort of moving paperwork around or whatever it is they're doing. And so we're always with a human that we like identify as a character that we know the school. There are, there are teachers and students and stuff like that that we're following around. So I will. Here's, here's a, here's a one or disadvantage. And this is a me problem. My brain can't shut off a running commentary of how did they do that? How did they do that one? How did they get that? How did they achieve that?
- [21:34]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, your sense of awe and wonder is overriding your ability to process and enjoy and engage with the show.
- [21:41]
Joanna Robinson
My infamous, yeah, slack jaw delight. But yeah, just like my puzzle brain is just sort of like how did they get the camera to do this? That was most distracting, I would say in episode one. And then by episode two, even though there's still a lot of moving around the school, I was able to Kind of let go of it. And then episode three, because it is just basically two people in a room from us, that episode, then it was just sort of gone. Is that something that happens to you that do you get like distracted by sort of thinking about the logistics of how they got the shot or the camera to move that way?
- [22:16]
Rob Mahoney
Occasionally, I think in some cases it does, though facilitate the story as they're trying to present it. Like, I think episode one is a great example where disorientation is very much a part of that process. And I was so struck in episode one being basically as pure procedural as this show gets, right? It is arrest to booking to interrogation. Effectively, like that is the process of the episode. But for example, for something as simple as in any other procedural, they're trying to get the code to his phone, to Jamie's phone to open it, to gather evidence. In this, because of the POV kind of laced one or format, you are following person from room to room as they discover in order to get his phone, you do need the code. In order to get the code, Jamie has to give it to you. In order for him to agree, he has to be first assessed by this nurse and made fit to make that agreement in the first place. And in order to be assessed, he has to get his appropriate adult in the room. And for then he has to decide is that one to be his mother or his father or this random person like the social worker who's been assigned to him. And so you see all of these, like, very complex systems locking into one another. And one thing I thought that Chris and Andy pointed out on the watch, that was a great observation about this is you're seeing people at different levels of exposure and like emotional vulnerability all throughout this process. Right. You have the family that's in a state of complete shock in this elaborate system, but bumping up against all of these professionals who are mostly trying to do their job competently, and I would say, for the most part, quite compassionately, given the circumstances.
- [23:46]
Joanna Robinson
And not only that, and this is something I do want to come back to, but like, re watching that episode because you watch that whole episode, you're pretty sure this kid did it because of, I don't know, the thumbnail art on the Netflix splash page, but also just sort of like, what are we doing here if this kid didn't do it?
- [24:03]
Rob Mahoney
See, I wasn't that. I wasn't that sure until. Until the end of episode one.
- [24:08]
Joanna Robinson
Okay, so that, I mean, that's what they're trying to go for. And like, I would say when you re watch it, knowing that those two cops already have seen this video.
- [24:19]
Rob Mahoney
Yep.
- [24:20]
Joanna Robinson
Or, you know, the nurse might even, you know, like, who knows who all these people who are the lawyer, certainly. And. And he says this at some point, he's like, they wouldn't have entered your home in that manner and done on this unless they had really compelling evidence.
- [24:36]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [24:36]
Joanna Robinson
So he is, like, very ready for that video to be, you know, part of this interrogation.
- [24:43]
Rob Mahoney
He even tries to preempt it and, like, take a break right before they're about to jump into it.
- [24:47]
Joanna Robinson
Knows what's coming. Right. Whereas the father is. Is blindsided by it. But I think that, like, thinking about those two cops who we meet at the beginning and they're very normal everyday conversation that they have going into this, but knowing that they're in for a horrible day because they. And. And have been. Because this murder happened the night before. So they've been probably like, you know, they've been working all night.
- [25:13]
Rob Mahoney
Totally.
- [25:13]
Joanna Robinson
Or. Or the nurse saying, I think something like, I hate a juvenile case, me. You know what I mean? Like, she knows she's being nice, but nice with this, like, bit of reserve to it of, like, you wouldn't be here if there wasn't something seriously wrong going on here. Do you know what I mean?
- [25:32]
Rob Mahoney
I was really struck by that overall, in terms of the way that the working professionals and the cops and everyone in the station does talk to Jamie, as you say, knowing in some regard what he's done or what he's most likely done. And it's even under those circumstances. Bascom is not trying to throw the book at him. He is telling him, when we get in there, you should ask for a solicitor. This is what's gonna happen. You should ask for these things. Not just reading his rights, but explaining in a more delicate way, since he is a scared child, regardless of what he's done and all the people who are assessing him. It's a lot of, like, you're such a smart boy. You're such a good boy. It's a lot of mate and love. And I understand, and I'm sure we're going to get into it as far as, like, the handling of that character and that character's place in this story. And I very much understand the reads on it. I think treating that character with a kind of compassion is a really interesting artistic choice.
- [26:26]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [26:26]
Rob Mahoney
And it's happening across the story, and it's happening across this story in a way that I think adolescence has something to say about it. It has a lot to say about that idea of who these people are and the way that. In the way that they're made.
- [26:40]
Joanna Robinson
Are you saying there's been pushback on, like, on the show for treating him too kindly or.
- [26:47]
Rob Mahoney
I'm not even saying there's been any pushback other than to say, like, I think the show itself engages with this idea in the second episode where the show is basically calling itself out for being fundamentally and structurally a story about Jaime in a lot of different ways. And in particular, DS Frank Misha, played by Faye Marseille, who I love her and I love her thrilled to see in this role, you have this kind of point of conflict between her and Bascom, where Bascom is very intent on figuring out the why of why Jaime murdered Cady. And I think Frank doesn't think you ever can know why, which is a reasonable point of view to have in a case like this. But also, it bothers her so much that they're spending so much time trying to get into Jaime's head in a way that probably will render Katie invisible or at least put her aside or at least put her outside the frame. And I think. I think Bascom's counter to that, that figuring out the why is, in its way, honoring Katie. I do find that to be a little bit persuasive, but I honestly very much want to hear what you feel about it, Joe.
- [27:48]
Joanna Robinson
I feel mixed about it. I wanted to talk. That's in my notes to talk about. I consider that of my, like, advantage, disadvantage of a oner. And I will zoom back to some other things. This is under. I have this under mixed because long form storytelling TV can take you anywhere inside of a story. And that's an advantage of something like, let's say, Broadchurch, where we're inside so many people's homes and so many people's lives. And we're at home with, you know, no spoilers for Broadchurch, but we're at home with the murderers as much as we're at home with the parents who are grieving, you know, the child and stuff like that. And so. So a disadvantage to sticking so firmly on Jamie and Jamie's family. And something that Stephen Graham said he was like, we really thought it'd be interesting to be with Jamie's family in the final episode is interesting. And it's interesting in the advantage of the oner, which is you're there in the claustrophobic silences. You're there with Jamie crying in the van ride to the police station. You're there with Bryony, the therapist, as she like, stands and wait for the hot chocolate machine to, you know, deposit all the hot chocolate into the cup, you know, like those, those, those. Narrowing the iris of the story down into this one hour of time is interesting and causes of. Caused a visceral reaction in me that is that I feel positively about.
- [29:28]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [29:28]
Joanna Robinson
I wasn't sure if that moment again, I also love Faye Marseille. I was not sure of that moment of calling out this thing, lamp shading. Essentially what they were doing was satisfied me enough because the disadvantage of being in the present, you know, we talk about this all the time. We talk about murder shows.
- [29:46]
Rob Mahoney
I know it's.
- [29:47]
Joanna Robinson
Which is.
- [29:48]
Rob Mahoney
And it's always a woman or in this case, a little girl.
- [29:50]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, the Laura Palmer wrapped in plastic. This idea of like, or Rosie Larson on the killing. But in though, like in, in at least with Laura Palmer we get, you know, fire walk with me. Or at least with Rosie Larson and the killing, we get flashbacks. Some flashbacks to her. You know what I mean?
- [30:06]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [30:07]
Joanna Robinson
And in this case it's like Katie, we know a little bit through her friend that we meet in episode two at the school, but we don't really know anything about her. I'm not mad about it because I think this is a very interesting story to tell. So I'm not like, you know, it invalidates it to leave it out. I'm just not sure that lampshading it like, gets them entirely off the hook for doing it.
- [30:31]
Rob Mahoney
I don't think it does either. And it's something that, even as that conversation is happening in the moment, that was what took me out as much as anything. It's like, oh, we have to have this talk about why the show is structured.
- [30:40]
Joanna Robinson
Yes, exactly.
- [30:41]
Rob Mahoney
Why the show is structured the way it is. To the extent that I give it a little more leeway on that front. I think it's because this show is so deeply un salacious. Like it is, it is, it is so uninterested in the glamorization of murder or in this like, ripped, even like a ripped from the headlines sort of intrigue and so much more interested in the structural factors that lead to things like this. And really the way that not just Jamie is a kid who has gone so far astray and has so many clear, terrifying problems, but the way that, like, we as a society have failed kids and we have failed their ability to be raised in a normal format and to be able to function as normal adult human beings, like, everything is going off the railroad track so fast and it's like the camera's pointing at the railroad tracks and saying, like, why is this happening as much as it is the murder itself or anything involved?
- [31:36]
Joanna Robinson
I love that. And I love that when they talk about the show, they. The, the line that they've been using in all the interviews is not, this isn't a who done it but a why done it. Right. And like the fact that the show has no easy answers to your point about like your preconceived notions around a Stephen Graham type.
- [31:54]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [31:55]
Joanna Robinson
The answer isn't, oh, he was abused by his father. That's not the answer. The story they want to present to you is this actually is a fairly like, loving normal home. And I think that you're all of the, you're so bright, you're a smart kid comments was not just, not just them sort of making things in the same way. Do you want cornflakes, mate? Like, sort of thing. But also to underline like, this is a smart kid.
- [32:27]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [32:27]
Joanna Robinson
And this is a thing that happened with this smart kid from a loving family. I do want to say, I agree with you that it's not a salacious, we're not glamorizing murder. We're not doing anything like that. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna like, call it one last advantage of the oner. And this is sort of like where I started with the concept as a conduit to story. It breaks through the noise of content.
- [32:51]
Rob Mahoney
It does in a way that we.
- [32:52]
Joanna Robinson
Talked about a bit with the Pit as well.
- [32:54]
Rob Mahoney
Right.
- [32:54]
Joanna Robinson
Like the Pit being the concept is every episode is an hour in one shift. They're not doing oners in that hospital. But like there's, there's a hook. And so I don't know that a very well acted, very well written, very seriously considered four episode drama about a kid who did a murder would be the thing everyone's buzzing about on a weekend a Netflix drop, were it not for this other part of it. And so as much as it, like, I wish that weren't the case of what we had to do to get really good stories told. Like sometimes that is the case. So it is.
- [33:33]
Rob Mahoney
And if you're gonna do it, at least do it well in this particular way where it is, yes, technically impressive, but overall I think the one or format, and we can talk about this in the context of any of these episodes, I would say especially episodes three and four have this advantage where it is just ratcheting up the intensity. Like every cut when you think about it, is like a little Bit of a pressure release. And so the fact that you never get those pressure releases means every emotion on screen has to work itself out organically over time. And that can lead to all sorts of fascinating and terrifying and painful places.
- [34:05]
Joanna Robinson
And I mean, even in. Even in. Even in one and two, to your point. Yeah, even in one and two. Because we're in such a crowded environment, we're not cutting away for relief, but sometimes we do move into a less stressful room inside of the police station or inside of the school, though that school is extremely everywhere.
- [34:23]
Rob Mahoney
It's just genuinely an awful time to be a teenager. Just an awful, awful time.
- [34:27]
Joanna Robinson
Teacher, like all of it is.
- [34:29]
Rob Mahoney
Although Mr. Malik not winning teacher of the Year anytime soon, I love.
- [34:33]
Joanna Robinson
And also the woman who is. I forget the name of the woman who was, like, leading them around, but like Mrs. Fenimore, her completely ineffective, sort of unaware attitude was. Was okay. But I want to talk a bit about the. The sort of sympathy, no sympathy seesaw for Ryan, which I think is sort of meticulously done across the series. And no place better, I think, than episode three. But Owen Cooper, incredible. You will see him next as young Heathcliff in the ill advised Emerald Fennel. Wuthering Heights.
- [35:07]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, no.
- [35:09]
Joanna Robinson
Co starring Margot Robbie and Jacob Elordi.
- [35:11]
Rob Mahoney
Is it too late to pull him out of that? Can we be his agents? I think. I think we can. We can help him out.
- [35:17]
Joanna Robinson
Props people are going to see him in it and be like, who is that kid? He's great. If they didn't already see him in this. Yeah. So I think he'll come out fine. I just don't think the project's a good idea. That's another. That's a. That's a problem for another day.
- [35:29]
C
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- [37:04]
Joanna Robinson
Out in the first episode and then. And then we take a break from Jamie and then he comes back in episode three. But like through this whole thing, I was sure that he had done something.
- [37:17]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [37:18]
Joanna Robinson
But I wasn't until you see the video. Are you like without much provocation at all?
- [37:24]
Rob Mahoney
No.
- [37:25]
Joanna Robinson
You know, we're immediately into a violent, though, to your point about salacious in the distance, slightly grainy. Stopping in a way that like we are with his father in that moment of this kid who has been so scared, who has been whimpering, who has been so polite.
- [37:46]
Rob Mahoney
Yep.
- [37:47]
Joanna Robinson
You know, who is. Who seems so bright. All this sort of stuff like that. Or in episode three, which is my favorite episode, sort of by far. Same the way that Aaron Dougherty's character Bryony comes in, having seen him already for several sessions.
- [38:05]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. This is their fifth session.
- [38:07]
Joanna Robinson
I think liking him.
- [38:09]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [38:09]
Joanna Robinson
Like comes in with a sandwich for him with, you know, with banter and she digs into a place that by the end she can't even touch the sandwich that she brought into him. She's so perturbed by what has happened here and watching it. We are meant to. This kid is not. I think what's so special about Jamie as a character is it's not like spoilers for primal fear. It's not like ever. Norton and primal fear.
- [38:41]
Rob Mahoney
Right.
- [38:41]
Joanna Robinson
Where like a switch flips and you're like, oh my God, this guy has been playing us.
- [38:47]
Rob Mahoney
No, no.
- [38:49]
Joanna Robinson
It's like this is a kid. Everything he says is real. But if you dig one or two layers under the surface, there's something very scary there.
- [38:58]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [38:59]
Joanna Robinson
But not disconnected from the nice kid that you are. Like, feels so bad that he thinks he's the ugliest kid. In class or this, that or the other thing. You know what I mean?
- [39:12]
Rob Mahoney
I agree with you on episode three overall, being sort of the standout, which is really saying something given the other three episodes, I think are tremendous in their own way. But the sort of experience of watching this show pitting your brain against itself where, like we have seen on tape that he stabbed this girl and like, I. We know it, it's not something a character said. It's not a little. A little thing to put out there that they're gonna swerve and it turns out he's not actually the killer and the tape was doctored or whatever. It's like he is the killer and yet you can't help. At least I could not help but be charmed by him at certain points. And to see him as that kid. And it's just like, it is impeccable acting. It is jackpot casting. It is. It's really threading the needle in finding someone who can be both. The kid who pisses himself when the police show up in like whimpering in his bed and also lording over this therapist who's come to. To talk to him and evaluate him and to be not just angry, but like calculatedly intimidating. Like, there are moments where I agree with you, it's not. It's not a flip switch. It's not a switch flip. But ultimately he'll have his freak out moments that are kind of pure anger or pure frustration or him like getting out some kind of boyish young energy and anger. And then when he comes back from them, there's. There is something there that is so dark and it is so like him seizing control of that room and him trying to seize control of their dynamic, his dynamic with yet another woman in his life. Life that he wants so desperately to like him. And yet he can't get her to admit it in some cases because, like, professionally she simply cannot.
- [40:52]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, the. That episode, episode three, very little happens outside of the room except for this, like, guy at the facility sort of hitting on her question mark. Is that what's happening at least kind.
- [41:10]
Rob Mahoney
Of chatting her up?
- [41:11]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, chatting her up a bit in a. In a way that like, is all in the mix of the. The larger conversation of the show. But I was struck by some of the just like tiny pieces of language. And again, Jack Thorne has been like a hit or miss writer for me. But some of the tiny pieces of language inside of that episode. When he says in one of his freakouts, your little head. Yeah, right. And then when he says when she waves off the guard and he's like, oh, like a queen.
- [41:40]
Rob Mahoney
Right.
- [41:40]
Joanna Robinson
There is this, like, misogynistic language that is not like, all women are sluts or what. It's not big and obvious.
- [41:51]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [41:51]
Joanna Robinson
It's little and caked into the very marrow of who. Of who this. Or who this kid has become.
- [41:59]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [42:00]
Joanna Robinson
Due to the environment that he has sort of found himself in. And I think that, like, I think also the kid curiosity, because there's Jaime, who was our perpetrator. There's his friend Ryan, who gave him the knife. And he and Ryan have these sort of, like, echo moments of their interrogation. Jaime with Bryony and Ryan with Bascom both have this moment where Ryan goes, you were popular, right?
- [42:31]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. He's kind of like. He fixates on it really quickly.
- [42:34]
Joanna Robinson
You were popular. Right. And to Briony, Jamie goes, oh, you're posh. And so there's this way in which they're identifying these adults as, like, there's no way you can understand who I am.
- [42:46]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [42:46]
Joanna Robinson
Because you were popular. Or you're pretty and posh and you can't understand my plight. And I'm not even going to give you the opportunity to make this connection with me that I thought was really.
- [43:00]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [43:01]
Joanna Robinson
Stunning and telling.
- [43:02]
Rob Mahoney
I think the way that Jamie locks onto. Yes. Those sorts of associations. Who can understand him and who can't. How people communicate with him. Like, he's so. So enamored with this idea of, like, oh, that's not what normal people say. Like, when I say that I'm ugly, you're supposed to reassure me. When I say that girls would never be interested in me, you're supposed to tell me, of course that's not true. And her unwillingness to participate in that is some of what stokes all of the intensity in that scene and what brings out some of the language you're talking about, like, the queen and the little head. And even when he's describing what kind of preempts him murdering Katie is some nude photos of her leak out among the school from Snapchat. And he decides that he wants to, like, take a pass at her in this moment, that she has been embarrassed enough socially. Yeah, exactly. That he says she's weak and that therefore she might be more susceptible to his advances and, like, that idea. And just, like, putting it in that way, like we hear reiterated over and over again in episode three, that it's not about what happened, it's about what he thinks it's about. It's not. What is true is how he's thinking about things. And one area in which this show, which very much wants to be a show about masculinity and a story about how these boys become these boys and how they become the kind of person that would murder a girl.
- [44:18]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [44:19]
Rob Mahoney
It engages very openly in some of the factors that facilitate that. Right. Like their depth online and what they're exposed to on the Internet. What they're exposed to in these schools, we get explicit, like Andrew Tate name checks, kind of manosphere mentions. Overall, I thought it was really interesting that they ch. They choose to make Jamie not someone who follows all that stuff credulously, but someone who has looked at it and said, some of this isn't really for me, but also ends up parroting other bits of it, almost subconsciously accepting it, regardless of whether he thinks he's doing it or not. I thought, like, that that's such a great choice. That makes it honestly, so much more terrifying.
- [44:57]
Joanna Robinson
The nuance of episode three of him saying, it's fucked up that someone shared these photos of her.
- [45:05]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [45:05]
Joanna Robinson
But also it put her in a weak position. So I thought that maybe she would go out with me.
- [45:10]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [45:11]
Joanna Robinson
To the point where after his, like, final freak out in episode three, to the point where when we get to episode four and we're considering it came to be the moment when he's on the phone, he calls his dad. It's his dad's 50th birthday, he calls his dad, and his dad has his own speakerphone because his mom and his sister are in the car. And he's talking to him for a while, and then he's like, your mom and your sister are here. And he's like, oh, I thought I was just on the phone with you. And it, like, made me go back to, like, when he picks his adult, he picks his dad, and his mom is like, why didn't he pick me? Or then later his dad is like, it should have been you. But, like, this idea that he's like, only my dad will understand me. Like, and, you know, that's. That's human. That can be, like a human thing. But it also felt, like, slightly gendered of. Like, I didn't know the women in my family were on this call. I thought I was just talking to my dad sort of thing. And that was, like. It just slightly creeped me out in a way.
- [46:13]
Rob Mahoney
Like.
- [46:13]
Joanna Robinson
And then I feel. I feel, you know, at the same time, the show just threads the needle really well because I really do feel for this kid. And when he, like, draws a card for his dad and just sort of like, man, it had me Googling, like, juvenile murder, sentencing uk. Like, what. You know, what's the future, like, totally for. For this kid? Because he's done this horrific thing, and I'm still like, can we come back from this in some way? Is there a future of any kind for this kid? Like, what do we do here?
- [46:48]
Rob Mahoney
So I have to say, like, coming out of this, it makes me really feel for every parent out there who has a teenager or a near teenager who's having to deal with this, because, I mean, one of the ideas that's kind of throughout adolescence, I would say, especially in the back half, is this idea that his parents are reckoning with at the end in, like, how. How did we make this monster effectively? And yet a monster that we are still claiming as our own. They're not disowning him. They're not pushing him away. Like, he's still their son. And one of the things they talk about is, like, they thought he was safe because he was in his room. And this idea that the danger has transcended the boundaries of your home, that it is infiltrating, that there really is no way to keep it out other than to try to be more present in their lives, to try to put them on these kind of more constructive paths. And I think that's where you get ultimately, like, the Bascom parallel with his son Adam, who also is a kid at school who is bullied, who also is kind of a bit of a social outcast.
- [47:44]
Joanna Robinson
We hear from the first. The very first episode at the beginning is trying to get out of going to school.
- [47:49]
Rob Mahoney
Right.
- [47:50]
Joanna Robinson
Because he gets bullied all the time.
- [47:52]
Rob Mahoney
And you see it in action. Like, you see the kids picking on him, and it sucks, and it's terrible. And ultimately, there are a lot of kind of minor parallels between Bascom and Eddie. Right. They're both. They're both like working men who have long hours, who come back late, who aren't as present in their kid's life as they may want to be. And yet Adam is on this one path and Jamie is on this other path. And it's such a fine line between them that, like, drawing up any specific causality would be a failure of judgment. It is. It's so complex, and it's so difficult to assess, like, why this happens to one kid and not the other. And I. I appreciate this show trying to at least wrestle with that idea.
- [48:28]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, I think. I think ending episode two with Bascom connecting with his kid in a way that they're not. The show's not saying this will fix it or like, everything's fine now, but it's sort of like, I mean, it.
- [48:42]
Rob Mahoney
Depends on how good the chips are, if the chips are great for chips. Maybe. Maybe we're on the road, a move.
- [48:48]
Joanna Robinson
In the right direction.
- [48:49]
Rob Mahoney
Yes.
- [48:49]
Joanna Robinson
And then the next thing we see as we're doing our fancy drone shot, is a bunch of isolated kids down their phone. You know what I mean? And Katie's friend in particular, there's no happy ending of that episode for her. And so I think that all that stuff is really finely tuned. Something that I like that they made sure to do is that all of the Andrew Tate sort of specific, codified insult stuff, they only have the adults say yes.
- [49:23]
Rob Mahoney
And I think it's good characterization for Bascom, too, that this is a guy who's very smart and very good at his job and a good investigator, and he's in totally over his head when it comes to anything related to the Internet.
- [49:33]
Joanna Robinson
I loved the scene with his son where his son's like, this is what these fucking emojis mean.
- [49:38]
Rob Mahoney
You're embarrassing. You're embarrassing yourself and me.
- [49:42]
Joanna Robinson
But then also I think that. Yeah, so to have this, like, there's a language you don't understand. Your kid's not safe at night in his room, and there's an entire language. And not to be, like. Not to be all a father, as a father of daughters about it, but, like, my nephew I love Adore is like, exactly this age, and I was just, like, thinking about him so much, and he's, like, so sweet and, like, all this, you know, like, yards away from anything like this, as far as I know. But like. But like, yeah, it gave me a real. I was like, oh, no, not the father of daughters moment for you, Joanna. In terms of. Of, like, empathy and fear.
- [50:22]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [50:22]
Joanna Robinson
In terms of watching and thinking about him going into high school and what that's going to be like, and all of this sort of stuff is just, like, really terrifying. And they've been kids. I don't want to talk about them too much because I don't think my sister would want me to. But, like, they've been kids who have been raised without devices, and that was like, a strong parenting choice she made. And in some regards, that is going to change their lives. But, like, I don't think you can keep all of this out forever, and that's just, like, something to think about.
- [50:49]
Rob Mahoney
I think episode two does a good job of illustrating some of that, too. Just like the way in which not just teenagers or teenagers, but this particular generation of teenagers and the way they respond to things and the way that like even Katie's death is something that's kind of being snickered about by some of the kids in the school. And that's look, that is a tale as old as time. Like teenagers trying to cope with tragedy and not knowing how to do it and making ridiculous and terrible jokes, that's always been a thing. But the ways in which some of the information, ultimately some of the worldview that we're talking about that Jamie gets a hold of or really gets a hold of him, that stuff that can course through school as fast as it can through comments on his Instagram. Right.
- [51:27]
Joanna Robinson
We don't come here to bury the Pit in order to praise adolescents. That's not. We love the Pit. Still in the running for best show of the year for me so far. Love the Pit. However, you and I were just sort of making fun of this line from the Pit that Noah Wiley's character, Dr. Robbie says. We are failing young men because you don't teach them how to express their emotions. We just tell them to man up and then we let them get their lessons in manhood from toxic podcasts. It was just like a little obvious.
- [51:55]
Rob Mahoney
On the nose tell versus show, ultimately.
- [51:58]
Joanna Robinson
And the Pit does so many things so well. So like, again, I'm not here to like tear down the Pit, but I was just sort of like what they thought they were doing with that line is like what this show is doing in a much because it's. The whole premise of this show is in a much more complex way. Again, there are no clear answers to how did this happen? And there's no clear answer on how do we stop it. The show is not interested in solving this problem. The show is interested in just holding it up for you to look at and think about something I love. Also in terms of the writing process, in that like, arduous three week shooting of each episode process, is that they let the kids rewrite some of the lines.
- [52:42]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [52:43]
Joanna Robinson
Because they're like, you know, we're men in our 50s and like, what do we know about the way in which like teenagers now are talking? And so I'm not a young teen, so. But, but like, yeah, like, is this a show that's going to connect with young teens? You know, I'm curious to know. I don't know.
- [53:03]
Rob Mahoney
I suspect more so adults and more.
- [53:06]
Joanna Robinson
So adults for sure.
- [53:07]
Rob Mahoney
But like, I think the effect that you described of if you are A certain age, you immediately think to everyone you know who is in that tween to teen bracket and how something. How they may tangentially be involved in these sorts of worlds, whether they know it or like it or not. Yeah, that. That's something that's I think, so much easier to do as an adult looking down in age versus for teens looking across themselves.
- [53:30]
Joanna Robinson
Definitely. But I, I do remember being a kid and I remember There are like TVs and shows you can watch where you're like, that's not how in a. Like a human.
- [53:40]
Rob Mahoney
Of course.
- [53:41]
Joanna Robinson
And then there are shows you can watch where you're like, like My so Called Life lingers. Because My so Called life really got it right in terms of the way in which actual teenagers talk versus, I mean, Dawson Creek lingers for a different reason. But no human teen has ever said any of those words. So like, if they got the way that the kids talk right, right. There's a better chance that a teen could watch this and say it, you know, not, not scoff at like of course, older men trying to tackle the problem of adolescence in the modern world. Anything else you want to say about the show? Brahma honey?
- [54:17]
Rob Mahoney
I just want to. I want to say one. I want to clear out one final moment for episode four in particular. And I will say, like, to me, the biggest payoff of the Oner style, a lot of it, is in episode three. I think that's an incredible piece of work. But what we get from Steven Graham and Christine Trimarco in episode four, as they are processing as parents and they've been through a day that I imagine is like many of their days where they try to pretend some things are normal and everything just comes crashing down. Like the idea of normalcy is not available to these people at this time. And the way it becomes fractured and the way that they start falling apart and the way that they start diagnosing and questioning, like, was it this thing that I did? Was it my temper that led him down this particular path? I think is just a remarkable piece of acting. Among other things. And in particular, Steven Graham and his character Eddie going into Jamie's room at the end of the finale. Holy fuck. I mean, just sitting on his son's bed, tucking in his teddy bear, sobbing and apologizing to his son. That can't be there. It just fucking laid me out, man. And I think the power of this show is if I ever listen to the song that is playing during that sequence for the rest of my life, that's Auroras through the eyes of a child I'm just gonna be wrecked and it's gonna take me right back to that moment. And it's like, for everything that we said about the Pit, like, to me, adolescents, it also has its moments of, like, let me say this part out loud really quickly before we move on, but then it lands it with this. And so that, to me, is why everything feels so different in the show as far as messaging within television is concerned.
- [55:52]
Joanna Robinson
I feel like we've had a real week talking about being TV criers, Rob. But, like, yeah, I mean, I think that that Aurora song there, it's just a job incredibly well done that the show ends with a very sentimental. Yes, extremely sentimental song. Sentimental and like a very specific sort of like, UK kind of that sort of like, UK extra layer of schmaltz that I think that they are, like, capable of. I say with absolute adoration and this extreme performance from Stephen Grant. But, like, what I love about that. And it all lands. And I am also laid out. But, like, I'm the kind of person where, like, if they hadn't done it right, that would feel all too much.
- [56:40]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, yeah.
- [56:40]
Joanna Robinson
You know what I mean?
- [56:41]
Rob Mahoney
Well, especially when he's crying over the murderer of a teenage girl.
- [56:45]
Joanna Robinson
Yes.
- [56:45]
Rob Mahoney
And so it is to me, it's the magic of this show that Jamie in scenes can make you forget for a second that he's a murderer and that his parents can make you forget that what you are feeling and what you're crying about and what you're experiencing is sympathy and pity and regrets over, if not a murderer than the tragedy that made this kid a murderer. And that's like a wider societal tragedy as much as anything.
- [57:07]
Joanna Robinson
But I think watching going back and sort of re watching episode one and I didn't watch it all back through, but I like, sort of spot watched some things and like, I remembered registering this at the time that Stephen Graham, he's giving a, like, they break into the home. He's like, what are you doing? You know, this is my home. You're wrecking the place. All this other stuff like that, this. But he is, like, often quite contained and stoic in that episode and until the end, obviously. But I remember watching it, I'm like, they're giving us this because I know he has to go somewhere, you know, so they're starting us here. So that Stephen Graham, who's like every cut to his face, I was like, captivated by. I just think he's incredible in this. But yeah, I, I, I, I thought it all built up to an incredible conclusion and climax. And Christine Tamarco, whose work I'm not as familiar with. Yeah, I thought was wonderful. Stephen Graham has said that they've. Those two actors have known each other since they were children, and there is this sort of like, baked in. This is what I'm talking about. Like, we've been talking about Christopher Guest films, like creating your stable of actors that you just feel comfortable and familiar with, and you can go build from there. We're incredibly lucky to get to see it. Anything else you want to say about this? Tough to watch, but very incredible show.
- [58:30]
Rob Mahoney
I really hope if you're listening this far, you've already seen this show, and if. If you somehow haven't, even after everything you've heard, I would encourage you to watch it.
- [58:37]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. Thank you to Justin Sales, thank you to John Richter, thank you to Donnie Beam. And we will be back for severance, more White Lotus and all other kinds of things here on the Prestige feed. And we'll see you soon. Bye.