The Prestige TV Podcast

‘Pluribus’ Episode 4: Carol’s Truth Serum

Host: Joanna Robinson
Guest: Rob Mahoney
Date: November 21, 2025

Episode Overview

In this engaging deep-dive, Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney break down Episode 4 of Pluribus, “Please Carol,” written by Alison Tatlock and directed by Zetna Fuentes. They explore the slow-building narrative momentum as Carol wrestles with grief, individuality, and existential dread amid the show’s hive-mind apocalypse. This week, the pair explore fan correspondence, discuss thematic parallels to other works, analyze key character beats—especially Carol’s attempts to scientifically investigate her oppressors—and dissect several standout set pieces, including the much-anticipated "truth serum" scene.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Opening Banter & Listener Callbacks

• Playful Apologies: Joanna and Rob address Rob’s earlier inaccurate “pigeon facts” with comedic mutual ribbing (00:18–01:02).
• Listener Engagement: The hosts highlight the show’s lively email culture, reading inventive fan suggestions—from how listeners would use hive-mind powers (“I want them to remake Star Wars until I like it”) to what food would lure them during an apocalypse ("Pop Tarts and Hot Pockets" vs. "Whataburger" vs. "Jack in the Box" chicken sandwich) (02:40–04:44).
  • Quote (Joanna, 03:08): “I just had this vision of Ol with, like, a zombified, like, Oscar Isaac at his disposal. And he’s just like, again, again, give me the Poe Dameron story…”

2. The “Unlicked” and Listener Terms

• Fan Vocabulary: Multiple emails debate what to call those not (literally/metaphorically) “licked” by the hive mind. “Unlicked” emerges as a favorite term for Carol and others resisting the collective (05:54–06:45).
  • Quote (Joanna, 06:10): “I really like that. The unlicked. You know what I mean?”
  • Rob (06:19): “They were metaphorically licked by this alien plot, you know what I mean?”

3. The Allusion Corner: Show Comparisons

• Listeners flooded the inbox with possible genre forebears and comps—Star Trek’s Borg, The Good Place, The X-Files’ genie episode, Romancing the Stone, The Matrix, Doctor Who, and Brave New World among them (06:22–09:47).
  • Quote (Rob, 07:12): “I would say this show is more in the aftermath of that. It’s like, okay, mankind has already been sort of wiped out, and now you have the empty expanse... What are you gonna do with all that?”
  • On “The Good Place” comp (Rob, 09:49): “Now that we are in full-on, like, helpful Janet, get me heroin mode of this show. Like, we are—we’re really in it.”

4. Menusnos in Paraguay/Colombia: Portrait of Isolation

• Introduction to Menusnos: The episode opens with a tense, largely wordless sequence of Menusnos (played by a Colombian actor), showing his extreme, almost desperate independence contrasted with Carol’s more performative self-reliance (10:54–12:41).

  • Quote (Rob, 11:29): “I can’t watch these sorts of introductions anymore and not think of that very, like, process-oriented guy in quarantine… I mean, we learn a lot about this character with very little dialogue.”

• Meticulous Survival: Discussion of Menusnos’ daily routine (tape, locks, weighing food scraps, eating dog food), his stoic forbearance (16:07), and his fundamental skepticism toward any collective—regardless of nationality (Champions rugged skepticism as not uniquely American).

  • Quote (Rob, 15:09): “There are people all around the world who are skeptical of authority… It’s totally understandable… to say, you know what? Like, I’m not buying what you’re selling.”

• Performance Note: The hosts credit Carlos Manuel Veska’s performance in making the dog food scene both revolting and deeply human (16:48–17:16).

5. Carol’s Scientific Approach: The Whiteboard Scenes

• Carol’s Investigation: Carol uses her home whiteboard as a crime scene analyst, listing rules about the hive mind:

  • “Eager to please”

  • “Would give me an atom bomb”

  • “Can’t kill—not a fly”

  • “Can’t play faves”

  • “Trying to change me”

  • “Really honest / can’t lie” (22:41–27:16)

  • Quote (Joanna, 27:16): “Trying to change me. Which I think is, like, so key. And something that I think some people are like, ‘why wouldn’t you want to join?’ I’m just like, ‘why would you let someone reprogram you?’”

• Meta-literary Commentary: Carol’s internal disdain for her readers parallels her skepticism of the hive mind, who treat her like a child—as does her own character, Helen (“She sees herself as Carol’s first line of defense”) (24:48–31:22).

  • Quote (Rob, 31:24): “It’s protecting a person from something that they don’t want to be protected from, which is their own creativity and expression and self. Like, how can you do that to someone even when you love them?”

6. The Hive Mind’s Rules and Abilities

• Boundaries and Manipulation: Carol’s heated exchange with the hive-mind collective outside her home underscores their tendency to stretch consent (“you nodded absently”) and to treat her like a misbehaving child (21:42–22:04, 22:52).
  • Quote (Rob, 22:03): “There is an infantilization of this person who is one of the few unlicht left on the planet… they believe… they know what’s right for her… even if that is a Biological imperative telling them to believe it.”

7. The “Truth Serum” Set Piece (Thiopental Sodium & Pharmacy)

• Dark Comedy: Carol manipulates the hive to acquire truth serum (thiopental sodium/heroin), leading to comedic asides about her impressive knowledge of elixirs and her “sophomore year heroin era” (40:49–44:14), while also risking Zoja’s health for critical answers.

  • Quote (Rob, 41:09): “We need her to really dig in…Yell at Zojja again, risking the fate of who knows how many people. Inject her again and see what happens.”
  • Quote (Joanna, 43:44): “The fact that Carol did heroin sophomore year…what is Carol’s…her history with drugs…We keep getting these, like, hints of the darkness in her past, you know?”

• Self-Reflection: Carol’s self-taped, drugged "truth serum" confession (“I’m not so bad, right?”) surprises her and emphasizes her vulnerability (42:13–42:56).

  • Quote (Joanna): “It’s almost like, revelatory to—like, Carol can’t hide from her intrusive thoughts when she has taped them for herself.”

8. Hive Mind and Art: The Debate over Value

• Art, Snobbery, and Validation: A nuanced discussion about whether "sloppy" or “non-Shakespeare” art matters, highlighting how even “bad” art can save lives—like Moira’s experience with the Waikaro books (32:01–35:12).
  • Quote (Rob, 34:36): “If you could create the worst book ever written and it saves someone from killing themselves, like, that is a huge net win in the grand scheme of the universe.”

9. Conversion Therapy Parallel: Trauma and the Hive Mind

• Explicit Allegory: Carol recognizes the hive’s attempts to recruit "the unlicked" as akin to conversion therapy, dredging up explicit parallels with her own queer trauma and closet—“fixing” her for her own good (35:57–38:10).

  • Quote (Rob, 36:15): “…where would someone like Carol have heard that before? Where would she have heard the idea that she is someone who needs to be fixed?”

• Romantasy and Queer Identity: Joanna notes that the Romantasy genre is not as monolithically queer-accepting as outsiders might think, adding further depth to Carol’s secrecy and wounds (38:46–39:39).

10. Climactic Hospital Scene: Empathy Weaponized & Risk

• Empathy or Manipulation?: In her final confrontation with Zoja, the hive claims, “We have been you, but you haven’t been us. We know what it means to be alone and to suffer.” The hosts question whether a collective could ever really understand individual pain (46:16–47:38).

  • Quote (Rob, 46:37): “Is that something that the hive mind is even capable of?”

• Production Note: The person who saves Zoja in the hospital sequence is Rosa Estrada, the real-life nurse who saved Bob Odenkirk’s life during Better Call Saul—a moving tribute that colored Rhea Seehorn’s emotional performance (47:38–49:21).

• White-Knuckle Tension: Carol’s “Back up! I have agency!” breakdown in front of a silent, unsmiling crowd delivers the episode’s emotional high (49:38).

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Carol’s whiteboard (Rob, 23:40): “Carol so desperately wants to kill Rabban and is looking for any permission to do it, including from her whiteboard. Effectively, Rabban dies again, this time for real. But then ask Val, right? Like, am I allowed?”
• On literary disdain (Joanna, 24:48): “…she has such disdain, partially maybe, connected to the way in which she has so much disdain for her readers. She is someone who has been crafting the perfect meal under a cloche…”
• On hive mind rules (Joanna, 27:16): “Can’t lie moment—but a lot of assumptions here. Kind of taking these people at their word…”
• On Helen as Carol’s protector (Joanna, 29:19): “Helen was someone who protected Carol from being hurt, that Carol was someone who, like, walked around so easily hurt. And so her bitterness and her bad attitude are really this sort of like, protective shell.”
• On ‘Moira & the Power of Art’ (Rob, 34:36): “If you could create the worst book ever written and it saves someone from killing themselves, like, that is a huge net win in the grand scheme of the universe.”
• On conversion therapy parallel (Rob, 36:15): “You are drowning in your own life. And we have the solution…If you simply give everything you are over to us and never be a person ever again.”
• On agency and risk (Joanna, 49:38): “Very scary sequence—Carol screaming like, ‘Backup, I have agency!’ but not feeling confident…”

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|--------------------| | 00:13 | Pigeon apology & recurring host banter | | 02:40 | Listener emails & hive mind “cloche” food picks | | 05:54 | Emergence of “Unlicked” as fandom term | | 06:22 | Show comps: Star Trek, The Good Place, X-Files, etc. | | 10:54 | Menusnos in Paraguay: Isolation and survival | | 16:48 | Dog food scene: Actor notes | | 22:41 | Carol’s whiteboard analysis | | 27:16 | Hive mind rules (“Trying to change me”) | | 29:19 | Helen as Carol’s emotional shield | | 35:57 | Conversion therapy/coming out allegory | | 40:49 | Truth serum & comedy in the pharmacy | | 42:13 | Carol’s self-revelatory truth serum “tape” | | 46:16 | Final confrontation: Hive empathy vs. true understanding | | 47:38 | Production notes: Bob Odenkirk’s real-life savior cameo | | 49:38 | Carol’s “I have agency!” hospital breakdown |

Additional Highlights

• Visual Design: Both hosts swoon over Waikaro’s home sliding whiteboard setup: “I would die to have this, come on! Beautiful… the glorious wood inlay with the handle…” (23:12–23:21)
• Production Cameos: The Mayor of Albuquerque and real-life medical heroes both cameo, illustrating the show’s deep ties to its filming community (21:16, 47:38).

Closing and Final Thoughts

• The hosts reflect on their love for the show’s casting of character actors (Jeff Hiller’s “Larry” in particular) and speculate which minor guest stars might reappear—a “fun, recurring world-building hook” (51:12–52:14).
• They muse about hive-mind hygiene (“Do the unlicked shower?”), Carol’s possible soft spot for matching sweatsuits, and encourage further listener emails and theories (“LickingTheDonut@gmail.com”) (52:43–53:09).

Tone & Style

The dialogue is breezy, witty, geek-out-friendly, and deeply empathetic, often toggling between dry humor (especially around food, pigeons, and corporate AI) and incisive literary/TV analysis.

End of Summary.