‘Pluribus’ Episode 7: The Parallel Journeys of ‘The Gap’

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast: Pluribus Episode 7, "The Gap" – Detailed Summary

Hosts: Joanna Robinson & Rob Mahoney
Show: Pluribus, Episode 7 “The Gap”
Date: December 13, 2025

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Episode Overview

This installment of The Prestige TV Podcast sees Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney tackle Episode 7 of "Pluribus," titled “The Gap.” The conversation explores the parallel journeys of two isolated central characters—Carol and Minutsos—as they navigate the emotional and existential distance both between themselves and the larger, enigmatic hive mind. The hosts celebrate the episode’s striking visual storytelling, minimalist dialogue, and the profound sense of loneliness and human resilience at the heart of this chapter, engaging deeply with fan emails and layered show symbolism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Interpreting "The Gap" (00:21–01:23)

• Multiple Meanings: The hosts break down the episode’s title, exploring possibilities around physical separation, emotional distance, and fan theories about the Darien Gap.
  • Rob Mahoney: “I like to think of it as, you know, maybe the gap between all of us as we isolate ourselves and certainly as these two characters are kind of drifting further apart philosophically.” (00:30)
• Listener Engagement: The team acknowledges the deluge of emails received about the Darien Gap after previous episodes, reflecting on the importance of geography and real-world survival challenges depicted in the show.

2. Episode Craft: Direction, Performance & Writing (02:24–07:24)

• Direction by Adam Bernstein: The director’s impressive resume (including Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, iconic music videos) is praised for lending visual richness and rhythmic editing to the episode.
  • Joanna Robinson: “His use of sort of visual storytelling, quick edits, musicality, all of that really works inside of this episode.” (04:01)
• Writing by Jen Carroll: This marks Carroll’s first credited episode—a significant milestone given its depth and complexity.
• Minimal Dialogue: The showrunners’ unofficial writer’s room motto, “Can we do this scene with no dialogue?” shapes this silent, emotionally driven episode.
• Performance Shoutouts: Both Veska (playing Minutsos) and the editors are lauded for their ability to hold audience attention through subtlety and naturalism.
  • Rob Mahoney: “It feels like the emergence of a fascinating, like, naturalistic actor who is never boring. Every time he's on screen, I just, like, am transfixed...” (05:25)

3. Humanity vs. The Hive Mind (07:24–11:43)

• Descent and Isolation: The episode is labeled “a masterpiece,” balancing tragic personal failure and hard-won resilience as both leads reach breaking points.
  • Joanna Robinson: “...the tragedy of Carol holding out for so long, and then collapsing back into the arms of the hive mind before he has a chance to get there.” (09:43)
• Empathy and Recognition: Minutsos’s dramatic moment torching his car is analyzed as a human act of grief and defiance, contrasted with the hive mind's unfathomable collective mentality.
  • Joanna Robinson (as Minutsos): “Nothing on this planet is yours. You cannot give me anything because all that you have is stolen. You... don’t belong here.” (08:36)
• Religious Imagery: Repeated symbolism—churches, the Virgin Mary, “godlike” drone interventions—amplifies themes of faith, surrender, and seeking signs from above.
  • Rob Mahoney: “...the hive mind as God. Underlined bold italics inside of this episode.” (11:38)

4. Listeners’ Mailbag & Fan Theories (12:49–28:05)

Cannibalism, Consent, and Practical Dilemmas

• Cannibalism Science: The hosts recap emails from evolutionary biologists and listeners on prion disease (“folded protein”) and the natural taboos against cannibalism.
  • Joanna Robinson: “Prion disease...a reason to not be a cannibal...” (21:25)
• Do-No-Harm Conundrums: Playful debate over whether the hive mind’s “do no harm” policy permits mowing grass or killing insects, poking holes in the internal logic.
• Privilege Check: Emails remind the hosts about their own privilege and the seductive arguments for the hive mind’s promise of equality and sufficiency.

Frequency Theory & Hive Mind Connectivity

• Why No Cell Phones? A listener, Ray Scotch Colton, theorizes that the hive mind utilizes frequencies that cell towers would disrupt—tying the mysterious sounds from Minutsos’s journey to the show’s central premise.
  • Joanna Robinson: “...the frequency that Minutsos found...is very similar to, or maybe the same as, the pulsing sound that plays over the credits at the beginning...” (25:21)
• Potential to "Unlick": Speculates whether Carol and Minutsos could use this knowledge to disrupt the hive mind locally, freeing people from its influence temporarily.

Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul Parallels

• The hosts compare Carol’s trajectory to the gradual “corruption” arcs of Jimmy McGill or Walter White—examining how isolation erodes her independence and principles.

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Detailed Episode Breakdown

Carol's Arc: Best Day, Worst Day (31:15–38:44)

• “Carol’s Best Day” Montage: Carol attempts to embrace her independence—soaking in hot springs, playing golf, savoring fine dining, perusing art alone.
  • Inspired by the survival show Alone, the hosts note Carol’s singing to herself mirrors how real people confront silence and solitude.
  • Joanna: “Who doesn’t like listening to Patrick Fabian’s voice, honestly? But, like, she does like listening to it.” (33:24)
• Meaningful Contrasts: Scenes of Carol’s luxurious (if empty) fun are set against Minutsos’s grim survival, including her summons for Gatorade versus his dog food meals and gas siphoning.
• Letting Go: Carol’s gradual enjoyment of stolen pleasures (stealing the O’Keeffe “Belladonna” painting, eating well, dressing up), shows her slowly caving to loneliness and the hollow rewards of materialism.

Minutsos’s Journey: Principle and Suffering (39:08–41:53)

• Refusal of Charity: Minutsos’s stubborn independence—refusing water, leaving cash for stolen gas—showcases his resistance to hive comforts or assistance.
• Parallel Suffering: Both protagonists are pushed to surrender (Carol to loneliness, Minutsos to exhaustion), yet each compromise is rendered tragic due to timing and circumstance.
• Harsh Ordeal: Minutsos’s trek through the jungle is perilous—culminating in a brutal, visually powerful injury via the Chunga (“Chumbawamba!”) tree, requiring self-cauterization.
  • Joanna: “I screamed a little scream when he fell back and got impaled on the tree.” (46:13)
• Symbolism: The Chunga/Chumbawamba tree becomes an oddly comedic but apt metaphor for resilience ("he got knocked down, and he got up again") and the dual realities of any powerful system (nurturing vs. destructive).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Rob Mahoney on Minutsos’s Resilience (02:31):
  “I fucking loved it. I thought this was just, like, one of the most beautiful episodes of TV I've seen this year.”
• Joanna (on Adam Bernstein’s silent scenes, 05:07): “This episode is a real testament to that approach because I really feel like...we are on such...an emotional journey.”
• Joanna on Carol's crushing loneliness (29:32):
  “She couldn't bring herself to get on the phone and say, come back.”
• Rob (on hive mind as God, 11:38):
  “The hive mind as God. Underlined bold italics inside of this episode.”
• Joanna on the chumbawamba tree (45:30):
  "It is, I am pleased to tell you, in some places, referred to as chumbawamba."

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Notable Timestamps

| Time | Segment | |---|---| | 00:30 | Interpreting the episode’s title and its many layers | | 02:31 | Rhapsodizing over the episode’s beauty and direction | | 08:36 | Minutsos’s scathing monologue—"Nothing on this planet is yours." | | 11:38 | Discussion of religious/hive mind symbolism | | 13:59 | Consent, privilege, and hive mind critiques via listener emails | | 21:25 | Prion disease and why cannibalism is (scientifically) a bad idea | | 25:21 | Frequency theory analysis and credits music connection | | 31:15 | "Carol’s Best Day" montage and the psychological toll of solitude | | 39:08 | Minutsos refusing hive aid, contrast in survival tactics | | 45:30 | The Chunga/Chumbawamba tree sequence and its thematic punch | | 49:22 | Discussing how long one could last in isolation | | 53:03 | Speculating on the purpose of Carol’s solo Fourth of July fireworks | | 54:59 | The “rites” of solitary fireworks and risky coping mechanisms |

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Running Themes

• Loneliness and Survival: Examining how isolation wears down even the most principled holdouts, setting up painful near-misses and missed connections.
• Resisting vs. Accepting the Hive: The limits of individualism in the face of overwhelming collective power and comfort.
• Art, Ritual, and Agency: Carol's museum outings and self-celebrations reflect a desperate attempt to assert agency amidst existential emptiness.
• Listener Engagement: Fan emails about everything (geography, science, philosophy, bugs, vanity plates, music cues) become their own hive mind, playfully critiqued by the hosts.

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Listener Interactivity & Humor

• Banter & Bits: Running jokes about travel shows, vanity plates, and the show’s improbable do-no-harm rule.
• License Plate Speculation: “Ace Baby” and “Elfritz” as clues, with fan solicitation for even better vanity plate ideas.
• Chumbawamba Revelation: The tree’s alternate name inspires delighted digression (“he got knocked down and he got up again”).
• Isolation Coping Fantasies: Comparing how long the hosts would last alone—Rob: three days without physical media; Joanna: would her Criterion Collection hold out?

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Final Thoughts

• Carol and Minutsos, Parallel Yet Apart: The episode heartbreakingly juxtaposes two human beings striving for connection and meaning, only to fall short because of timing and circumstance.
• Masterclass in TV Storytelling: This densely crafted episode is called a “masterpiece”—a testament to the power of visual storytelling and emotional authenticity.
• Hive Mind: Metaphor and Reality: The show (and the podcast) continue to swirl with speculation about the hive mind: Is it salvation, doom, or just another system with tradeoffs?
• Stay Tuned: The hosts close with reminders about upcoming mailbags, solicitations for plate ideas, and the promise to return for the season finale—likely “creepily over Zoom.”

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(For questions, comments, or license plate suggestions: [e-mail] or [e-mail].)

Transcript

[Rob Mahoney]

Foreign.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're here in person. Talk about episode seven, the Gap.

[Rob Mahoney]

What is the Gap?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, Rob, what or what could that episode title mean, do you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. I feel like it could refer to a great many things. I like to think of it as, you know, maybe the gap between all of us as we isolate ourselves and certainly as these two characters are kind of drifting further apart philosophically.

[Joanna Robinson]

You don't think Carol in her new sort of like, embrace materialism phase went to the Gap?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, she definitely might have. I mean, look, definitely kind of gap styled at times.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Could it have anything to do with the thing we got 1 million emails about last week? The Darien Gap.

[Rob Mahoney]

Judging by our inbox, it is possible. It does seem like that could be a consideration that may be dealt with in this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so we're here to talk About Pluribus Episode 7, the Gap, written by Jen Carroll, directed by Adam Bernstein, in which we check in on Carol over the scope of a month, and then presumably minusos on a month long journey up to. From Paraguay to New Mexico. Guys, you cannot drive there directly.

[Rob Mahoney]

So we have learned.

[Joanna Robinson]

So we have learned.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you for all your educational process for us.

[Joanna Robinson]

Joe, thank you for all your emails about the Darien Gap. Some of them were very polite, some of them were rude, but that's okay. We appreciate all of that, but. But if we didn't know about the Darien Gap before, we certainly know about it now.

[Rob Mahoney]

We do.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just want to say really quickly, we did get one email about the TV show Long Way up, which is the Ewan McGregor TV show where he and his friend Charlie took motorcycles from the tip of South America up to Los Angeles. Did I watch that show? Yes. Did I not finish that show? Correct. Episode eight is when they encountered the Darien Gap and I did not get there.

[Rob Mahoney]

Should have done your due d diligence. How do you feel about us doing a travel, a travelogue show, Joe?

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, can it be wine based?

[Rob Mahoney]

It can be wine based. It can be dairy and gap based, if you like. I mean, I did seem a little perilous for my taste, and certainly we couldn't be driving through it, but maybe that's a hiking, not bottle episode, but a little side quest.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, how's your. How are your machete skills?

[Rob Mahoney]

Not great at Carterizing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

That part I'm not looking forward to.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Everything we learned from our lovely listeners about cannibalism and the Darien Gap aside, how did you like this episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

I fucking loved it. I thought this was just, like, one of the most beautiful episodes of TV I've seen this year.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And hit a lot of boxes for me. I know everyone is coming to Pluribus for something very different, and there's. I'm sure a viewer of the show is like, I just want to find out the next steps with the virus, with the aliens, hypothetically, with whatever is happening in this show. This is the deconstruction of our two most human characters, or at least central human characters. And it's shot in a way where I'm just like, good Lord. The Chilean coastline. Good Lord. The beautiful scenescapes of an apocalypse effectively. And using those to advantage to indicate the isolation of these characters, but also the beauty and the natural wonder of these spaces. It kind of is laying out the argument for and against humanity at the same time, just by how beautiful this episode is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, I love that. Something that I like to do, obviously, as you know, is sort of scrub through the official pod. Sometimes those tidbits are just extra cherry on the cake of our discussion, but in this case, I think Adam Bernstein, who's the director of this episode, who was a frequent Breaking Bad director, a.

[Rob Mahoney]

Better Call Saul director, directed our hooked episode for Breaking Bad.

[Joanna Robinson]

Correct. And is a music video director as well. And so his. His history directing, like, the Love Shack music video for the B52s. Hey, ladies. For the Beastie Boys, Baby Got Back for Sir Mix.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, my God.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, this is a guy, but like the. His. His.

[Rob Mahoney]

So he's directed a lot of different kinds of landscapes, as you're alluding to with Baby Got Back.

[Joanna Robinson]

But I think his use of sort of visual storytelling, quick edits, musicality, all of that really works inside of this episode. Also, hearing how they shot it over time, some of it in Spain, some of it across different, you know, states somewhat out of order. So for the actors to have to. You know, for Veska, who plays Minusos, for him to get into the right emotional space based on where he's driving at what point in the timeline. There's just so much effort that went into making this incredible episode. And something that I thought that was so interesting that Adam Bursty talked about, having worked with Vince's crew through Breaking Bad through Better Call Saul, is that they have this kind of unofficial motto in the writers room, which is, can we do this scene with no dialogue? Yeah, like that. They'll. They'll write a scene and they'll be like, but can we do it with no dialogue? And this episode is a real testament to that approach because I really feel like with Manusos, especially who we spent less time with, we are on such and we just have to be with him emotionally through this largely silent trek that he takes. And then when he does speak, which we'll talk about when we get there, it's so powerful.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's really amazing what they've already done with this character in, as you said, very limited screen time, certainly very limited dialogue time. Actual human beings muttering to himself in a rainforest. A little bit more.

[Joanna Robinson]

The cat is gray.

[Rob Mahoney]

The cat is gray. But also, I think it's just a testament to Vince Gilligan and his casting directors, in particular, Sharon Bialy and Sherry Thomas. Like, they this feels like Rhea Seehorn on Better Call Saul. It feels like the emergence of a fascinating, like, naturalistic actor who is never boring. Every time he's on screen, I just, like, am transfixed by whatever he is reacting to in that moment. And it never feels like too much or too little. It's like I am just, like, so fully in this thing. And that's a product of great filmmaking. It's a great product of great editing. Absolutely. But you can't do it if you can't hold a screen right. And for Veska to be doing that with, frankly, like, very little on the page to read, I think it's just remarkable acting work from him so far.

[Joanna Robinson]

I want to shout out two other people on the production side to yes, and you and say that Jen Carroll, who wrote this episode, this is her first, like, written by credit that she's ever had. So what a cool episode to have that on. And then Chris McCaleb, who hosts the official podcast, is an editor on the show and he edited this episode. So, like, the incredible work that he did putting together and the great work he does on that podcast. So I just want to shout out Chris as well. But this is, I mean, I just thought this was like a masterpiece of, of television. Really, really good stuff. And I think it based on how you're reacting. I mean, I, I, I didn't listen to the watch, but I know that Chris and Andy were divided on this episode because Chris told me that they were, that Andy didn't really respond to it. And I know that, like, some people aren't responding to the, the show as a whole or this episode, but for me, it really hit what I really like about this Anna Gilligan show in particular, where you are forced to really marinate in the emotional journey. So when we get to the point of Minucos's journey, where he is injured bodily, where he can't go on anymore, I am devastated in a way that I would not be if I hadn't, you know, watched him sort of suck all that gasoline out of cars and do all the other things that he did along the way. Do you know what I mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

Completely. I mean, it's taking these two characters to their absolute breaking points, and in doing so, something very human. I think the kind of growth we're seeing from any character, that's something the hive mind can't do. They are a static entity working to complete optimization in a lot of different ways. But one thing I was wondering when watching this is, can the hive mind even comprehend the contempt that Minutsos has to set his own beloved car on fire just to prove a point? Is that like, a thing that the hive mind understands of. Like, you're saying you understand that this is an important car to me. Right. I hate you saying that so much that I'm going to set it. And the Virgin Mary on fire to spite you. Is that like, do you think that's something that's, like, within their realm of experience to collectively grasp?

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you saying that for Manusos, the car is. Helen.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, my God, I didn't even think about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the audacity of you to say you understand my grief.

[Rob Mahoney]

But there is some. I think there is something specifically to that of. Look, in many ways, as human beings, we are desperately yearning to be known.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And then when somebody is, like, overly familiar with you who doesn't actually know you, it triggers this reflexive anger in all of us that the hive mind would not really have.

[Joanna Robinson]

Nothing on this planet is yours. You cannot give me anything because all that you have is stolen. You lighter, click. Don't belong here. Sick. Like, very deeply sick. Very, very good stuff from Minusos in this episode. I thought that was incredible.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, another benefit, as you mentioned, Joe, of just like, having such a quiet episode is when a character like Minusos does speak up to other people, everything stops. Like, this is what I mean by his naturalistic acting style. I could have stayed in that moment of him lighting his lighter and just ready to torch his car in flames. I could have stayed suspended in that moment for an hour because of just, like, him holding that scene. Him holding that moment. The break in the dialogue, the pacing of everything he's delivering, I think is just really remarkable.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think what's also incredible and, you know, obviously we'll talk about what Carol's going through in this episode. But I think what's also incredible is the great tragedy of this episode. Not just his failure, you know, basically, like, I don't know, Christopher Nolan, take notes. This is an odyssey. Like, there's the failure that he experiences and then also the tragedy of Carol holding out for so long.

[Rob Mahoney]

I know.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then collapsing back into the arms of the hive mind before he has a chance to get there. And the questions we're asking ourselves, like, will, you know, he's going to be perhaps airlifted to her doorstep? We don't know what the hive mind's going to do against his wishes, but that might happen. And. And then is he going to be like, oh, you are just like one of them. Do you know? And that's devastating because she held out by herself, feeling like she's all alone in the world for so long. Here comes someone who wants to be on your team. And the timing is just, just not right.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, I joke about the gap, but like it is there and it's widening between them. Despite the fact that, you know, Manusos was so inspired by Carol's tapes and was like, has been him making the effort to go through the gap. You're right. Is an odyssey is incredible to watch. Is devastating in the end of him finally reaching for the drone heavens for help. Yeah, like, him having to make that concession is like gut level painful. In the same way that Carol collapsing into Zojja's arms is gut level painful. You would love to see a world in which these characters can hold out the appropriate amount of time to be just successful and valiant enough. But that's like, just not what Pluribus is right now.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's not what humanity often is bad.

[Rob Mahoney]

News for all of us.

[Joanna Robinson]

But yes, I think that also the. To have both of them have these sort of like eye in the sky moments. Like we've had these drone bits of comedy throughout. But this idea that Carol has to write a message that, you know, the gods can see and Miniso has to sort of reach up to the heavens and we have all the, you know, there's like a shot of Carol with the clouds behind her backlit. Very knives out, very wake up, dead man. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

We need that for our set deck. Can we get some steepling light through the window, please?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, some natural lighting inside of the studio, please. And then. And you know, and. And Manusos having to like look up to the heavens, the Virgin Mary iconography, him sleeping in a church. There's just very much like the hive mind as God.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Underlined bold italics inside of this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, isn't it, you know, like at the point where you can snap your fingers and a red Gatorade descends from the heavens like it is a godlike figure or it is not ice cold? You know what, even God is a little flawed sometimes. Doesn't quite deliver in the ways you might want, but in the ways you might need. It's better to drink a tepid drink than an ice cold drink if you're that parched.

[Joanna Robinson]

But his resentment of, you know, when they're saying, like, you're going to New Mexico, right, to see Carol, you know, and he was just like, his resentment of, like, how dare you? I haven't spoken to any of you.

[Rob Mahoney]

I know.

[Joanna Robinson]

How dare you know my plans? And how dare you reveal to me that you know my plans. It was just like really good stuff.

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[Joanna Robinson]

Let'S go through some email stuff. Like we mentioned, we got a lot of emails about cannibalism and the daring gap. We'll talk about some of it.

[Rob Mahoney]

And pigeons, which apparently do eat their own young sometimes, so I'm just throwing that out there.

[Joanna Robinson]

The anti pigeon contingent really showed up for you, Rob. And I like that for you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Showed up for all of us.

[Joanna Robinson]

I like to tell we're a nation divided. All right, here's some questions sort of generally posed by the inbox. Will one of the unlicht opt to get licked, as it were? Has Lakshmi already joined her son in the hive mind?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, narratively speaking, Lakshmi would be the only one who would make sense. Like, we just haven't revisited any of those other characters, right? And she. I think she has the pull with her son. I think she's shown that she's someone who might at least consider that. I think that's a real possibility.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, in. In terms of that conversation we had about consent, some of our listeners pointed out that, like, the hive mind does opt to leave Vegas, even though that's true. Kumba's like, please stay. Why won't you stay? So there are decisions that they can make that are counter. I mean, I think our larger conversation still stands, but there are some moments where they can deny. Yeah. Someone something.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think the catch for that for me is those people never opted to be in the hive mind to begin with. Right. If you sign up to be a part of the cult and then later want to backtrack on what the cult activities are, that's kind of one thing. But like, if you're not signing up for it, that initial wave of consent is just obliterated.

[Joanna Robinson]

We are still getting some troubling pro hive mind emails from our sources.

[Rob Mahoney]

A lot of them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

I will say the most convincing for me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

In terms of pro hive mind emails we've been receiving are of the variety of like, everything is fundamentally fucked in the world right now.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Our access to resources, our access to healthcare, people like starving and suffering all over the world. That there is a bit of hubris in saying, like, our model is the best model.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. It's not working for a lot of people. And we got emails being like, hey, consider your cushy podcaster job, not the job that most people have, et cetera, et cetera. Fair point.

[Rob Mahoney]

Privilege check.

[Joanna Robinson]

Genuinely fair.

[Rob Mahoney]

The point with that for me is not that those things aren't true and that what we have is the best model. To me it's just the only human model is like the. The only way we can really operate is not with the fundamental constraints of like those societal concerns, but some of the fundamental restraints that would be surrendered to a hive mind mentality.

[Joanna Robinson]

To your point, is like, if there were an opt in option that's different, where we're told, hey, if you do this, there will be peace on earth.

[Rob Mahoney]

Totally.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, equality and all that sort of stuff. Like you and I as. Nevermind, let's not get into politics. Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also a little credulous. Also, if your hive mind utopia has a 10 year expiration date, I don't know, maybe it's not a utopia.

[Joanna Robinson]

That was so funny. Some of our hive mind apologists were like, oh, just kidding. If it's only going to be 10 years, I don't want it. Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

We need a 15 year plan. That's what I'm saying.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's a really important question I have. Is the actor Patrick Fabian getting royalties for every episode where they use the complete voicemail recording for Carol?

[Rob Mahoney]

One can only hope.

[Joanna Robinson]

I hope it's in his contract.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then I just wanted to point out that Carol in this episode is doing a lot of things our listeners wrote in about. She went to the museum.

[Rob Mahoney]

Almost like to a checklist.

[Joanna Robinson]

Golfing, fine dining, like this is what everyone wanted to do. I loved it.

[Rob Mahoney]

We need to hear from the golfers again. I will say, you know, going back to when we were. Our coverage of Fargo, there was such a very clear example of a man who had never held a golf club before. Pretending to be a semi professional golfer did not work. Racy horn. I am not a golfer, but very clearly knows how to swing a club. Very clearly. Has at least spent some time on a driving range before. Did she Daniel Day Lewis that shit and just like prepare that for this role? I would believe it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But I would also believe it if you told me she's been golfing like every other Sunday for years.

[Joanna Robinson]

We did have some questions from the golfers earlier about how quickly. Well, this goes here. This goes into something else I want to talk about, which is the do no harm question. We got a lot of questions about this. The particulars of the. The narrative corner that the writers have written themselves into with this do no harm idea. Because does mowing grass count?

[Rob Mahoney]

If.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mowing grass. If you can't pick a piece of.

[Rob Mahoney]

Fruit off the tree, can you cut a blade of grass?

[Joanna Robinson]

Can you cut a blade of grass? And if so, if you can't cut a blade of grass, can you maintain a golf course? We see some weeds growing up. There's like a little bunny here.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, somehow we're getting into like a federalism argument. It's like an author's intent kind of thing happening here. An originalism. Like, I think by the letter of the rule, the answer would be no.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right?

[Rob Mahoney]

Is that how this is going to work? Frankly, we haven't seen the post time jump golf course yet.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's true.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe this is part of the reason why Carol has moved to the, you know, downtown Albuquerque, as her driving range.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is like shagging balls off the.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's in disrepair over there at. At the country club.

[Joanna Robinson]

Fair enough. Okay. Especially since everyone's. No one's there to mo. To mow said grass. Just two more do. Do no harm questions we got from our listeners. Okay. How does the hive deal with bugs while driving? Gotcha. Vince Gilligan. That's from Hank, and I really, really like that question.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can I share a recent bug exploit with you?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, please.

[Rob Mahoney]

Recently, before I was about to go to bed, I was like, oh, that's a sizable spider on the wall. No big deal. I'm gonna take care of it. You know, like, I try to escort them out. If they're below a Certain threshold if they're of a certain size. I'm sorry, it's just I don't have the hive mind mentality. You gotta go.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Smashed him. Had enough. Concerning features, I'm like, I better Google this. Turns out, as a brown widow, not ideal for my home living situation, but one spider I can deal with. Unfortunately, in looking at the Google images of brown widows, there are a lot of very conspicuous egg sacs lurking behind them in these photos. And sure enough, Joe, I look up.

[Joanna Robinson]

No.

[Rob Mahoney]

And there is just a plump little egg sac right there, hovering in its web. Yeah, my night plans were scrambled. I turned into. I mean, this egg sack is like.

[Joanna Robinson]

John Goodman and arachnophobia.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, it's like in a skylight 12ft off the ground, and I'm like excavating it with chopsticks with. With the most careful precision. How else am I supposed to get it that delicately?

[Joanna Robinson]

Because you can't let it burst.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, that was my nightmare. It's like I'm gonna squeeze too hard and literally 150 spiders are gonna pour out of this thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my God.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm happy to report I successfully removed the egg sac. And to date, we have not seen any more brown widows. But, you know, it was a harrowing experience. I empathize with. Certainly if you have a spider or bug in your car. And absolutely, we didn't even see the spiders in the gap that Manusos was warned about. You know, all the bugs and snakes that could also be of danger to him there. But you know, the n. Sometimes nature comes for us all.

[Joanna Robinson]

As someone who drives from northern California to Southern California on the 5 quite frequently, my grill is just like plaster.

[Rob Mahoney]

You are doing lots of harm.

[Joanna Robinson]

I am doing lots of harm. And then the last but not least, Emma was like, for a hive that can't harm anything, they sure use fossil fuels recklessly. Re. So many flights with just a few one to a few people. So really Taylor Swifting their way through this.

[Rob Mahoney]

But if the only person Taylor Swifting was one person, are you really dealing damage to the environment that way? You know, like one private jet I think is probably incredibly sustainable. If you cut off 90% of all of the world's like corporate level population or pollution, like, right. If you. If you shut down all the factories that aren't making.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is a great point.

[Rob Mahoney]

Cannibalistic smoothies.

[Joanna Robinson]

Why I think you're slowly becoming pro hive mind.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not becoming pro hive mind. I'm just saying that's not my concern. The concern is there's not enough food to sustain the people. People.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

And if you need to jet set around, maybe there's a safe way to do it.

[Joanna Robinson]

So here's Rob just collapsing into the arms of the hive mind. Here's me.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is not what's happening here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Slicing and dicing my way through the jungle, standing strong. Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Unbelievable.

[Joanna Robinson]

Joe, on. In terms of, like, the incredible emails we get from experts in the show, across many TV shows that we've covered, one of our listeners, Oscar, pointed out that in a way, our email network is a bit of a hive mind, that we get these, like, expert insights from people.

[Rob Mahoney]

So we already are the hive mind.

[Joanna Robinson]

He says, feels like.

[Rob Mahoney]

How's your high road feel now, Joe? Now that you're already part of it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Feels like you milling. Licking the donut is how we can funnel our knowledge into a hive mind of sorts. Maybe you guys can do a live open heart surgery for the finale, guided only by listener emails. Food for thought. So something to consider.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, if we get a sponsor.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, who's the. Sponsored by the Pit. Hbo. You know where to reach us. Rob, do you have a favorite fun fact you learned about cannibalism this week from our listeners?

[Rob Mahoney]

There were a great many fun fact. Lots of people are still pro. Lots of people have lots of defenses of it on practical grounds, on philosophical grounds, sometimes on lots of. Just like people and animals have been doing this for a long time in various capacities, and therefore it must be. Okay, question mark. Grounds.

[Joanna Robinson]

The science community felt a little differently.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think they certainly did. It will kill you, basically, depending on how you prepare. Well, it was the first time I had ever heard the phrase folded protein before.

[Joanna Robinson]

We got a lot of folded protein. So prion disease, which is something that you can get from eating, I believe, the nerve tissue. Sorry, this is. This is the world we're living. We got so many cannibalism emails. So just so you know, presumably the HDP is like heavily processed enough that they figured out how to not do this, but this is what, like mad cow disease came from feeding cattle cow nerve tissue. And that's how that spread.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And with humans, a reason, a reason to not be a cannibal is the way in which, if you eat nerve tissue, I believe, you know, we heard from evolutionary biologists, medical writers, et cetera, et cetera, that this is not something you want to do.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's almost like we are biologically wired in the propagation and continuation of our species that we should not do this. It's almost like the universe is telling Us something interesting.

[Joanna Robinson]

Interesting. I did like this email we got from Dan, who's an evolutionary biologist, who says there are some ideas programmed into our brains as species. We call these, quote, innate behaviors or more commonly, instincts. As an example, newborn baby chicks instinctively hide from shadows of predators flying overhead. Monarch butterflies migrate something like 4,000 miles and do it without social learning. So there's a lot of examples. And then he said with. With cannibalism, with incest, which can also sort of lead. These, like, societal taboos are often linked to these biological, Contrary to the biological imperative, I guess, ideas.

[Rob Mahoney]

So I think there's, like, a feedback loop thing happening there, too. Right. There's the biological imperative that, like, take incest, for example. Like, higher risks of, like, development of various, like, diseases and deformities and, like, health complications as a result. And then that kind of furthers the social taboo, which then, like, it's all kind of tangled in a way where I don't know how you could separate one from the other. And I'm sure there's cases where the social taboo kind of started first, and then we evolved to a point where our bodies could no longer do that thing anymore. So it's all kind of in one big stew.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you think we were going to be talking about this today?

[Rob Mahoney]

I just kind of take it as part for the course, given the way the inbox is going right now.

[Joanna Robinson]

Anything you want to share about? We learned about storing avocados.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, we're good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Avocados are safe. They're mostly ripe. Sometimes they're frustrating. I don't know what to tell you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sometimes we put them in the fridge.

[Rob Mahoney]

We do, in fact, know how to put an avocado refrigerator or on the counter, but, you know, doesn't always work.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, I want to hit you with this frequency theory is what I'm calling it. We got a couple emails about this. A listener who has requested to be referred to as Ray Scotch Colton.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do we allow that?

[Joanna Robinson]

I do. I mean, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, you can request to be called by something other than potentially your given name.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think some people try to, like, don't want their name on a pod, even if their first name is just John. And they're just, like, worried that people will know that it was them that wrote in. So requesting a. In quotes. Nickname, though, is new. And, you know, in this instance, I decided to go for it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think you have to defer to us if we want to call you Lorelei. If you leave yourself anonymous, like, that is our.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's our Right, but this is. Ray. Ray laid this out really beautifully. Right. When Carol spoke to Davis Taffler in the pilot, he said the cell service is down. Right. But as. As is outlaid here, the joint have kept several other modes of long distance communication. Powered and functional. Landlines, of course, but also communication satellites, which is how Carol called Manusas from a plane. Zoom calls are in effect. Right. Because. Because the unlict are hopping on the zoom without Carol on a bi weekly basis. So why no cell phones? Based on all the above, I think cell towers interfere with whatever psychic frequency the joined use to communicate. Taking it one step further, I think the mystery frequency Manusos found was the basic. Was basic. The frequency all the joined are tuned to, so to speak. And I wonder if whenever Carol Manuso's meet, they'll put those two facts together and try to hatch a plan to slow the joint down. A lot of people pointed out that the. The frequency that Manusa's found, having gone through every single option, is very similar to, or maybe the same as the pulsing sound that plays over the credits at the beginning of the episode. That this is like the sound of it. Yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Which we've never really talked about, but I find like really bracing and kind of beautiful and also a little terrifying.

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe that's why you're being seduced to the hive mind. We. We do not skip through the opening credits on a TV show, so. And then our listener Jay wrote in to say, if the radio signal is part of how the hive mind communicates, would Minusos and Carol be able to block it on sort of like a. A limited basis? Like a 10 mile radius can block the signal and therefore like basically unlicking a segment of the hive mind, can they liberate just like a few people in a geographical, you know, location? Will those people, if they can no longer hear the frequency, will they then revert to who they were before?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or are. Is. Will Zoja be Zoja but no longer sort of hive mind dependent?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you know?

[Rob Mahoney]

And if they are, what memory would they retain from this time where they were part of the hive mind? Have they been trapped in their own bodies during this stretch or are they kind of willing participants in what's happening? Like all of. I'm very curious for our first glimpses of someone who has been like deprogrammed for exactly this reason. Like, what is that revelation of where have they been in a consciousness sense?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, exactly. Last but not least, and I love this frequency, this frequency plus cell phone.

[Rob Mahoney]

Service, it checks I mean, it checks all the boxes in terms of what's been happening in the show. And what Pluribus is signaling to us is kind of important. Important.

[Joanna Robinson]

And plus, it was like right in front of our faces the whole time in the opening credits is a very Vince Gilligan thing to do. I don't know if people, like, were in the Better Call Saul soup when he spelled out the return of a character via the episode titles of a season like that was just diabolical work from Vince Gilligan. So last but not least, before we, like, get into the episode, this very lengthy mailbag section. This is not a mailbag thing. I just want to point this out, is that watching Carol collected into Zoa's arms or watching minusos have to get rescued out of the jungle. I was thinking about the theme of Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul and Pluribus, which is about in. In Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad, it's this like, slow seduction of a main character into the less. A lesser version of themselves, I guess, is what I will say. In Better Call Saul, we watch Jimmy McGill become Saul. In Breaking Bad, we watch Walt become Heisenberg.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know what I mean? And so Carol, as much as we're saying this is like a slow down version, watching Carol go from as independent as someone who demands their sprouts is restocked by a bunch of people to utter collab 2 inside of this episode, taking a more sort of Kumba approach to everything, right? She's like, I'll get the Rolls Royce. I'll, you know, I'll have the fancy meal. I'll do all of these things. And then into Zoe's arms is actually an accelerated version of that. Sort of abandoning your principles for something.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think the difference in those two journeys is in your radar, Call Sauls and your Breaking Bad. Some of the question at the end is like, if you make that transition.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Into Heisenberg, what is left of Walter White? Like, is he still in there? Or has it been completely papered over?

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think we worry about that so much with Carol because It's been like 30 days of concentrated isolation basically have just broken her will. And she's like, so upsettingly lonely and. And just like. And I think the diminishing returns of all these things that she tried to Kumba fy to make her life somewhat meaningful. Like, she's just looking at the same Georgia o' Keeffe painting on her wall. It's like, this isn't doing it for me. Like, it did a month ago. Carol's still in there. She's just like deeply upset and deeply alone and so desperate that she would make the one call she basically never wanted to make, which was like, can someone please come back here? Even though that someone doesn't exist in the form that would be recognizable to her.

[Joanna Robinson]

And she couldn't even say it.

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

She had to like go to the, you know, supply store, get the paint and the roller and sort of write it because she couldn't bring herself to get on the phone and say, come back.

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[Joanna Robinson]

Let'S talk about Carol's Carol Act 1 Carol's Best Day is sort of how the writers talked about how they wanted to lay this out right? Carol's going to the hot springs. She's going to the golf course. She's getting a new car. She's getting dressed up. She's going to the Georgia o' Keeffe Museum. The singing to herself. I was very like interested in this and they said that this is based on. There's a TV show that they love called Alone that's on the History Channel where they basically drop airdrop survivalists competition shows.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And they're all alone, I guess, except for the camera crew. Or do they. Or they have like, GoPro.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's more GoPros Mountain. And they're given cameras to kind of turn on and.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. So they are like testimonial Blair Witching their way pretty much. Okay. So that oftentimes those people on those shows start singing because they can't handle the silence. That this is like a human instinct thing to do is to start to sing to yourself to break the silence. Carol, I guess, can't listen to podcasts or audiobooks.

[Rob Mahoney]

I had that thought too.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know if she has the Internet. Zoom is working for the Unlicked, but she doesn't have the Internet.

[Rob Mahoney]

But she at least has some mixed CDs, it seems.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. So she can't catch up on her backlog of the Prestige TV podcast, so she has to sing to herself. How did all of this work?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, we haven't finished the season yet. Maybe she will get to episode nine and she'll be like, what happened in the pit? Yeah, mid season. Check in.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, I'm like, I'm really into the severance theories.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do think, you know, it's so funny watching kind of the parallel journeys with Carol and Minutsos, because Minutos is, like, trying to figure out ways to basically connect with Carol. Right. Like, he's trying to learn English. Like, he's going through his lines. Like he is making this incredible journey and drive to connect with her and meet with her. And Carol's, like, trying to figure out how to be alone.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, she's trying to figure out, how do I do this and not go insane? And it's singing to herself in the car. It's doing all the things you said. It's going to museum. It's really following all the listener suggestions that had been in our inbox in terms of the things they would do, but just them being in such different places, which makes sense given their circumstances. But I thought the singing was especially evocative of that. They're like, I need to hear a human voice, even if it's mine. And it cannot be the answering machine that I'm calling every time I need a Gatorade.

[Joanna Robinson]

But I do think that's why, you know, we did get a lot of listener emails saying, like, please, for the love of God, can she ask them to shorten the voicemail? I don't need to hear it. Every time. But I think Carol needs to hear it every time. Even though she puts the phone on speaker and, like, goes off to do something. Like she does. Like, who doesn't like listening to Patrick Fabian's voice, honestly? But, like, she does like listening to it. They purposely contrast the procurement of gasoline. Right. Carol does his very indulgent, like, bring me an ice cold Gatorade, turn on this pump sort of thing. Her very classic, like, so stock my sprouts versus minusos. Eating dog food and siphoning gas out of the very. And leaving money behind as he does.

[Rob Mahoney]

It, you know, and refusing the bottle of water.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I think that's one of the other contrast points between them is like, Minutsos is he's almost like, trying to live in a society without a society.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Everyone is gone. But if he takes the gas, he's gonna leave the money. When it comes time to, like, take refuge, he's gonna sleep in one of the few places that would actually give him refuge, which is on the floor of a church. He's not like, bunking up in the nearest mansion.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And Carol's not exactly taking advantage. Every luxurious exploit she could, but she's going to take the painting off the wall and take it home with her.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I'm not critiquing Carol because she has, like, in contrast to the other unliched, she has been a real holdout. But then you can contrast her. And we talked about this earlier, the sprouts versus the dog food that, like, minusos kicking over the, like, you know, cooked meal and all that sort of stuff like that. That. That this was just an ext. More extreme level of what completely. Carol thinks she's holding out and Manusos is really, really holding out.

[Rob Mahoney]

But this did feel like a letting go episode for Carol.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

She did the investigative journalism. She presented her findings to Kumba, and it's like, no one cares about what I care about.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right?

[Rob Mahoney]

And so all I can kind of do is go home and I guess live whatever life I can live well.

[Joanna Robinson]

But part of that is she doesn't have a purpose anymore. She had this investigation and she's like, I'm going to figure it out and I'm going to save the world. And then was just roundly rejected and John Cena fied and like, set packing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, her purpose is being a scratch golfer. It is a lifetime pursuit, as I understand it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Fair enough. But, like, Manusos has a part. He's like, I gotta learn English.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a great point.

[Joanna Robinson]

Machete my way through the Darien Gap and get to Carol. Okay, I want to talk about the painting for a second. This is Belladonna. Georgia o' Keeffe painting. Georgia o' Keeffe role boss. There was a great Georgia o' Keeffe exhibit that I saw at the Chicago Institute of Art last year, and I just think she's incredible. But I love this story about this particular. Please painting. So she painted this when she was on. She was in Hawaii. A trip was sponsored by the Dole Pineapple Company, which had commissioned o' Keeffe to paint a pineapple plant for use as an advertisement. This three month trip proved immensely inspiring for o', Keeffe and she returned home with numerous sketches, photographs and paintings, including this one, Belladonna. None of these paintings, however, was of a pineapple. When o' Keeffe finally painted the requested pineapple, it was from a plant the company sent to her in New York following her return from Hawaii. She's like, I'll take your Dole money. I'll go to Hawaii, I'll get a lot of inspiration, and later I'll do your shitty little pineapple drawing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Fucking phenomenal.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's a boss, she's a G. So.

[Rob Mahoney]

I wish I had that in me, you know, we all need a little more Georgia o' Keeffe in us just to channel from time to time. And I will say, like, I've. I don't think we've ever seen Carol happier in this show than the first time she goes to the Georgia o' Keeffe Museum.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, on the one hand, no comment. On the other hand, like, I think it is like her taking the painting is her first kind of acceptance of, like, this is a thing that I want that I've been kind of like, not allowing myself to do yet. I've been eating TV dinners, I've been doing all this other stuff. I've been living kind of within the normal confines of what my life was. I would never be able to take this painting home, but I'm gonna do it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And I love. I love that she had the poster of it and she's like, oh, just gotta replace it. I'll just have the real thing. Anything you want to say about Carol's dining out? It's cloche city on the table here. She's just got the best of in front of her.

[Sponsor Voice 2]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, they look great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I don't know about the coursing specifically. Is that French toast is the first, like, Martha's Vineyard dish.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And then there's, like, a microgreen. I love a microgreens bowl, but it just seemed like.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, it seemed like a mushroom rice with microgreens on top sort of situation. Yeah, risotto. But I don't know. It looks a little longer grain to me. Sounds delicious. I mean, I'm down.

[Joanna Robinson]

If we do a travel show, Rob, it's gonna have to be a foodie travel show.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, you're not gonna hear an argument from me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Correct.

[Rob Mahoney]

But I support Carolyn. I support Carolyn coming out of the cloche is ultimately what I'm saying. Like, she's finally allowed herself to do this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. You could say coming out of the cloche, but you could not say why. Carol enjoys a Georgia o' Keeffe exhibit at the museum.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought it spoke for itself.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, great. I will say just because my brain is cooked. And you know this because we did a West Wing podcast where I said Westworld, like, nine times instead of West Wing had to be edited out. The player piano at the dinner playing I Will Survive like, was giving me real Westworld vibes.

[Rob Mahoney]

So I did check to see what else was on the on offer, what else is on the iPad. It did hurt me a little bit that she scrolled right on past Robin's Dancing on My Own on that list.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Look, it's an episode full of, like, quite on the nose music cues.

[Joanna Robinson]

Georgia On My Mind. It's getting hot in here.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, as one does when they're slowly going insane in isolation. But it's like, I. You know, maybe it would have been a very girls thing to do, but I would have appreciated the dancing on my own interlude.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think this was. These were other songs they considered but couldn't get clearance for. So they were like.

[Rob Mahoney]

I did have that question, like, do you have to pay rem if you're gonna sing 7 seconds of the End of the World, as we know.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. They talked about this in the official pod. They had to clear everything.

[Rob Mahoney]

Had to clear everything.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Shout out to all these, like, these artists, these musicians, these bands, getting money for Racyhorn's, you know, stirring performance of Hotten Her.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you for doing the correct pronunciation.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's what it is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Minisos siphoning gasoline, learning English. Oh. So the guy who rolls up, to him and is, like, offering him water and giving him, like, facts about dehydration, like, very Zoja coded, like, here are some facts for you. That's a stunt guy, really, who they just, like, thought was. Had a very Cheerful demeanor. So they're like, he'll be perfect for this. And he was. I thought he was really.

[Rob Mahoney]

He seems like an amazing Hank. I would have taken the bottle of water, I think.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, but this is the difference between me and Minusos.

[Joanna Robinson]

Slippery slope, man.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess.

[Joanna Robinson]

Slippery slope.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's a very principled man.

[Joanna Robinson]

Slippery slope. Not unlike the one he tumbles down straight into plan.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, let me ask you this. Now that Minutos has asked for help, right? He reached for the heavens, he got medevaced out of the forest. Last. Last resort, certainly. Do you think there's any part of him that's going to be more open to asking for the Carol level things on the other side of this? Some. Like, the basic, like, can I not eat dog food? Could you bring me some food even if I cook it myself?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think he's going to be judgmental of her, you know, relenting even as much as she has.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that. I mean, that part is. I think if he shows up and Carol is in Zoja's arms, yeah, he's gonna have some thoughts.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tough Veska. When he talked about his performance in the sequence, he said a note that he got, again, again, was to not look too tired or too stressed and don't cry, because it's just sort of like this is supposed to be, like, a hopeful journey for him, that is, you know, we see him trudging and dehydrated at the end. He needs to sort of work up to that, but also just sort of like to make this feel like I'm working towards something. I'm not just sitting alone in this room, you know, dialing the radio frequencies. I've got something to do for the first time in, you know, a couple weeks.

[Rob Mahoney]

And it's beautiful, right? Like, the scenery again, the resilience of that moment in that journey and that character, which is what makes it so heartbreaking when he can't ultimately get where he needs to go. But it's like, again, it's a human, like, who's trying to prove something that, like, I don't need to be airlifted to New Mexico. Like, I can do this. I don't need you. And as he, as he says, really directly, everything you would offer me is not yours to give in the first place. So why would I possibly accept it?

[Joanna Robinson]

So badass question for you. If you were to make this journey.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Would you bother to shave and trim your hair and do all the other grooming stuff that Manusa decides to do on this journey?

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely. Not.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're on full beard. Like, getting real beardy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. I think in this scenario, I am Will Forte and last man on earth. Like, I am living in pretty much some version of abject filth. I'm certainly not as presentable as him, but again, this is part of him, like, continuing his. Like, what he sees is, like, his obligations to the world around him. Right. He's a participant in this larger thing. And that means trimming your hair. That means shaving. That means being a normal human person.

[Joanna Robinson]

Keeping up appearances of everything. I will leave money on this windshield for a person who is no longer anywhere near this vehicle, just in case society returns to itself. I need. I need to have order. And, yeah, this illusion of, you know, similar to back when he was in the storage, you know, facility, and he was just like, sorry for this, you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Know, leaving the notes. I mean, I would say even to like, a maybe OCD degree. Right. To an obsessive or maybe coping mechanism degree. Right. It's either I'm hanging onto this thread because it's the only thing that's keeping me feeling like the world might come back, or it's. I just have an innate sense of order, and I personally need to do these things whether the apocalypse is happening or not.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have a really important question for you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Next, please.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, we get two vanity license plates inside of this episode. Yes, the Rolls Royce that Carol picks up. The license plate is Ace Baby.

[Rob Mahoney]

Ace Baby.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the license plate on Manusa's beloved car that he burnt is Alfred's. We talked before we started recording a little bit about what Ace Baby might mean. I think it's tennis related.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, when you're picking up from the country club, especially the valet parking.

[Joanna Robinson]

At the country club, what's the Just Married car like? Was the reception at the country club? Is that why the Just Married car is there?

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess so. Okay, that. That part does make sense. And conspicuously, right there in the background during Carol and Zosia's big embrace, you know, just the Just Married blinking sign in the background as Carol wears, I believe, her, like, you know, pluribus blue shirt, as is customary at this point. And Zosia pulls up in her Pluribus blue car. You know, the color theory is really popping off this week, Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, Elfritz, couple options here. First of all, the car is always on the fritz. Yeah. So it would be a fun nickname for it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

But also, Fritz is a German name abbreviation of Friedrich, which translates to peaceful lord. So just some options if you have other thoughts. Licking the donutmail.com what elf Fritz could refer to. Rob, really important question. If you were to have a vanity license plate.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, my God.

[Joanna Robinson]

What would it say?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, first of all, Josh, I just want to say I regard you as a peaceful lord. This is kind of the energy that you put into the world.

[Joanna Robinson]

Le Fritz. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Vanity license plate. Honestly, it's so, like, antithetical to my personality. I don't mean to dismiss your bit, but, like, I don't think I could bring myself to do it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, you just no. Butted my yes and moment. That's fine. Maybe.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes. And is the license plate I need.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I say that I think that I. I've thought about this for years. I've thought about, like, am I a vanity license plate person? And I've never been able to come up with, yeah, I have an idea. I'm not going to say it in case somebody takes it, but, like, I have one idea that I'm kind of interested in.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

But more than anything, and this is just, like, worse than I think any license plate, I want the California plate. That's the black with the gold numbers on it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Quite elegant, right?

[Joanna Robinson]

And so, like, is it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is it black or is like a deep brewing blue?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, exactly. And so it's like I want that aesthetic more than I even need, like, an actual word on there. So I've often wondered is that if that makes me more kuma than anything else, then, you know, I'll just embrace my inner.

[Rob Mahoney]

Or, you know, I don't think it's that at all, But I do think there is an overlap between if you're a tattoo person and a vanity license plate person. There's a similar. Like, I want to make a permanent public statement about something regarding me.

[Joanna Robinson]

That thing is like, I don't think. I mean, I'm ineffable. I don't think there's a word that can encompass when I.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's never been any doubt. You are ineffable.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. I have something really important to tell you. This is actually the most important thing I have to tell you.

[Rob Mahoney]

This has been a very important podcast.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Chunga Tree.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you look up the Chunga Tree?

[Rob Mahoney]

Of course I did.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you see what an alternate name for the Chunga tree is?

[Rob Mahoney]

I did not.

[Joanna Robinson]

It is, I am pleased to tell you, in some places, referred to as chumbawamba.

[Rob Mahoney]

What? I mean, minusos did get knocked down and he got up again.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And they're never going to keep down. They're never going to I could not believe this. I have gone my entire life without bothering to figure out what chumbawamba means. And it means the Chunga tree.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're blowing my mind.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, even donut Gmail dot com. If. If you think that band had something else in mind when they. I didn't, like, go when they were.

[Rob Mahoney]

Pissing the night away.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah. You know, when they're drinking a whiskey drink. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Rob Mahoney]

The chunk of tree, though, the Chung of palm, I've seen it referred to, too. Just these. The single most not fuck withable tree I've ever seen in my life.

[Joanna Robinson]

I am staying in a hotel. I am not a person who usually does this. I screamed a little scream when he fell back and got impaled on the tree.

[Rob Mahoney]

It was awful.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was so bad. And Vince Gilgan on the official pod said he watched that edit like, 90 times, and every single time, he, like, gasped. It's so bad. Like, because there's the shot, of course, where he comes face to face with the tree completely, like, close call. And then his ankle turns on that rock. He grasps for the vine that can't hold his weight. And then it's just like. It's that moment in a fall where you know it's gonna happen and you know it's gonna be bad.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, see, I was. I was the opposite in a way. Cause I did know it was gonna be bad. I was expecting ankle twist, compound fracture, like, horrible leg injury, as often happens if you're hiking in, like, really unstable terrain.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I just thought, oh, we've moved past the spike trees.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right, right.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, the booby traps. We're past it, but unfortunately, you are never past them.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love the way that that was shot as he was sort of navigating around them, and they, you know, Adam Bernstein, the director, talked about, like, that they're almost these living menace.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

He has to, like, you know, like the T. Rex. If you move too fast, it'll see the motion sort of attitude.

[Rob Mahoney]

But it's a very, like, predator. Badlands, having recently seen the forest will kill you.

[Joanna Robinson]

But also, Veska talked about how in some cultures, that tree is. So some people treat that tree as, like, a. The scariest, most threatening tree. And for some cultures, that tree is the tree that they use to build all of their buildings. And so it is like a holy tree, a friend tree. Yeah. And I was sort of thinking about that as like, a hive mind idea of sort of, like, is the hive mind a friendly tree? The tree that, you know, builds everything for you or is it going to impale you such that you then have to cauterize your own wounds with a red hot machete?

[Rob Mahoney]

See, I was thinking more Carol. It's like a little prickly on the outside. May wound you for life.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

But ultimately could be quite stable under the right circumstances.

[Joanna Robinson]

The scars that you carry will be worth the journey. Spending time with Carol, I mean, we'll have to.

[Rob Mahoney]

We'll have to ask Helen about that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who's to say the belt in his mouth, like the whole thing.

[Rob Mahoney]

It was so hard to watch.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really, really hard.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. Anything. Oh, I do want. Okay. So in terms of Carol Act 2, I just want to underline something. We've been talking about the clock, so we get a day count of how long Carol has been alone.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

But from front of the pod. Matt Mitovich sent me this quote from his Inside Line newsletter from Rhea Seehorn, where she said the Carol Zoja hug was a tough scene to film. We did a lot of takes of varying levels on that one. Director Adam Bernstein and Vince both were reminding me that the isolation period that she goes through has taken a massive effect. And even though I filmed it as one episode, for Carol, it was in excess of 30 days and she had no idea what the end in sight was. So, like, excess of 30 days of shagging balls off a parking garage, which may or may not have been a Better Call Saul. There's a parking garage that you used a bunch in Better Call Saul and like, with similar yellow paint on the pillars. So I was wondering if that was the same location but 30 days of like, how long do you think you could go by yourself?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I mean, this is the premise of alone, as you were saying. And like, really the challenge they're putting the competitors through, even the people who have gamified it and prepared for it, like, you can really see them absolutely snapping at a certain point. And I think especially it's one thing if you're fighting for resources like that. And so Minusos's case is very distinct from Carol's. If you're living comfortably. Actually, here's my question. If you're living comfortably but still isolated, would, like, the, like, would that combination of factors make it worse? You're. If you're used to. If you're thinking, I'm roughing it in every possible respect and I'm alone. But the discord of, like, I have all these comforts but no one to share it with, no one to talk about it with, no one to identify with in any Possible way. I could actually see that making it kind of worse. To answer your question, I would last like three days. I would be a mess.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you have your DVD collection, though?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, you're right. Physical media does save us. Uh, no. No physical media. 3 days with physical media. Eternity, Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I think so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Would I be happy? No. Would I be talking to a volleyball? Absolutely. But that's what you got to do.

[Joanna Robinson]

But would your criterion collection, like, watch through be complete? Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

But if you log something on letterbox and no one can read it, does it make a sound?

[Joanna Robinson]

The eternal question, you know, does it falls in the forest and no one's impaled, does it count? I have a couple of requests for our list listeners. First of all, I'm. We're gonna. I want to talk about the very end of this, obviously the fireworks and all of that, but we're gonna do an a year end. Basically, we're gonna do the Pluribus finale and then as part of that episode, we're gonna do a sort of like year end mailbag. You've already solicited some emails online, but I just want to make sure that people know prestige [e-mail] or licking the donut gmail.com if they have questions, comments.

[Rob Mahoney]

Concerns, or any of our previous emails. We do still get all of them. So if you're a slow horses person, you really want to email our time. The [e-mail] got a pineapple bobbing email this week. I mean, look, people have their allegiances and I support them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Also, if you have ideas for what Rob should put on his vanity license plate when he finally gets California plates on his cars.

[Rob Mahoney]

Don't out me on this. Allegedly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Allegedly yourself on rewatch.

[Rob Mahoney]

No comment. Remember, no comment on anything that's happening.

[Joanna Robinson]

Licking the donut gmail.com if you have an idea for it. Pigeon hater with an eight for the hater.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a lot of letters.

[Joanna Robinson]

P G. A little wordy. H8ER.

[Rob Mahoney]

We'll workshop it. But spiritually, obviously.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Or for me, if you have ideas for what I should, I should get, so.

[Rob Mahoney]

And we will auction off Joe's actual idea for charity.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, we're gonna throw that up. We're gonna go to the highest bidder. If you want to know what Joanna Robinson will put on her vanity plate.

[Joanna Robinson]

What I think encompasses me. Yeah, but it's not just like what you think encompass. You want people on the road to be like, oh, it kind of has.

[Rob Mahoney]

To be a bit, you know, it can't be. Just cut to the core of who you are. It's like I'm cutting to the core, but in a winking way.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just for me. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what, like. Well, I was gonna dox myself with what my bumper stickers say. I'm not gonna do that.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, that's coexist.

[Joanna Robinson]

Honestly. How dare you? All right, the Booyah Jams of 2006. We're playing. We're bumping. Yeah, we get the fire. Okay, this is. This is sort of the last big question I have before we get to Age of Aquarius. In Portuguese, I believe, close out the episode. What do you make of all this sort of like, patriotism that comes from Carolyn's. She's singing. She's singing Star Stripes Forever. Yeah, she's playing it. She's getting the firecracker. I was like, Is it the 4th of July? Is she honoring 4th of July all by herself? Yeah, but it just felt very, like, performative Americana. Rugged individualism, as we know, is both.

[Rob Mahoney]

In the show and one of our favorite things. Rugged American individualism.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is that what my license plate should say?

[Rob Mahoney]

Rugged individualism?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Rugged usa.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that'll work out okay. I mean, obviously, the American.

[Joanna Robinson]

You'll get the exact kind of attention.

[Rob Mahoney]

I want, I think. So. We're really finding it, Joe. This is what podcasting is all about. We're just here to narrow, narrow, narrow. And we finally landed on the podcast.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is how you. Yes. And Rob. Not know but a bit.

[Rob Mahoney]

But this is you. Yes. And yourself from, like, three bits ago.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know what? And sometimes you got a podcast with yourself.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's absolutely true. The American part is clearly there, clearly textual.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I also think a lot of it, too, is just, like, the pomp and circumstance. Right. It's like if you are one of the last people left on Earth and having no human contact, I think one of the things you would crave is not just having your friends over for dinner. It's like the big communal stuff. It's the holidays. It's celebrating. It's something like fireworks. Like, who's gonna put on fireworks for you other than you, unless you ask the hive mind to do it? And that's kind of against the point of wanting it in the first place.

[Joanna Robinson]

I will say this, having been to several Fourth of July events where people have sort of put on their own backyard fireworks show, which I think might be illegal here. I never did it, but I did watch it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Even, like, city by city, wildly different.

[Joanna Robinson]

Regulations, a lot of fire hazards. Here in California, etc. I would much rather say, hey, hive mind, you don't have to get anywhere near me. Come back to downtown Albuquerque, put on a massive fireworks show, sourcing the hive mind. Knowledge of fire safety. And I want, like, you. You want, like, the big, big show, Especially in.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know, like, what firework shows were like for you growing up, but if you ever tried to do the fireworks show in San Francisco, fog cover means that, like, often you're just getting, like, colored cloud above you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very different vibe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But I think you're missing some fundamental points.

[Joanna Robinson]

What am I missing?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, one the time honor tradition of getting drunk and lighting fireworks.

[Joanna Robinson]

Correct.

[Rob Mahoney]

Which is really what she's after.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right?

[Rob Mahoney]

The whole comprehensive experience.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's like, I don't need all my fingers.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, no. And also just lighting stuff on fire. Like, that's part of the appeal of setting off the fireworks yourself. Like, yes, it's great to go to the big show and set up your chairs and have fun. But like, by yourself, also lighting the stuff on fire is part of the appeal.

[Joanna Robinson]

Questionable whether or not this should be in the podcast at all, but I will just ask you. Carol decides to, like, maybe let a firecracker take her out.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

At one point in this.

[Rob Mahoney]

Stares it down.

[Joanna Robinson]

What would you absolutely not do if you were at the end of the rope? It's been. You're burned through your physical media collection. You're out of patience, out of time, out of hope. What are the things you not wanting to do? Because firecracker to the face, this is the thing is tough.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think anything fire oriented should really be off the table. I mean, look, a very low moment for Carol, I'm sure, like a weak moment where she's just on the brink of a lot of things. I don't think the firecracker is what you want. I don't think anything that is aflame is really the answer in those kinds of situations and really at the end of your life in any way, period.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Okay. Well, it's just something. I'm thinking about death constantly. Okay. Anything else you want to say about this episode of television?

[Rob Mahoney]

I have not listened to the Watch yet as they discuss this episode. But the good news for Chris Ryan, the hive mind in clearing out the shelves of every store for all of the food, for all the valuable stuff. The cigarettes are still there, the zins are still there, whatever. He would prefer to get him through the long night.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is very important.

[Rob Mahoney]

We salute our friend Chris.

[Joanna Robinson]

We do see how we love you. Okay, one.

[Rob Mahoney]

One dart. Into the breach at a time.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. Looking the donut. Gmail.com. prestige TV, Spotify.com. take care of yourself. Don't do anything we wouldn't do. Send us your vanity license plate ideas. What a real joy to be with you in person, Rob Mahoney. I think it's the last time we're going to see each other before the end of the year, so Happy holidays in person and. But we'll be back with more Pluribus before the year is out. Just like creepily over zoom. And that's it. Bye.