‘Severance’ Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Prestige TV Podcast – "Severance" Season 2, Episode 9: Who’s the Secret Eagan?

Introduction

In the March 14, 2025, episode of The Prestige TV Podcast hosted by Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney from The Ringer, the hosts delve deep into HBO's critically acclaimed series Severance. Titled “Who’s the Secret Eagan?”, this episode serves as a comprehensive analysis of Season 2, Episode 9, underscoring pivotal plot developments, character dynamics, and overarching themes as the series hurtles toward its finale.

Upcoming Finale and Live Q&A Session

Early in the episode, Joanna announces the impending Season 2 finale set to air on March 21, coinciding with the spring equinox and a full moon—details that inch the show's mystique further (05:51). She highlights the finale's extended runtime of 76 minutes and informs listeners of a special bonus episode released the same night, diverging from their usual Friday morning schedule. Additionally, Joanna and Rob promote a live Q&A session on YouTube scheduled for Wednesday at noon Pacific Time, encouraging listeners to submit their theories and questions to either [e-mail] or [e-mail] (02:33). This interaction underscores their commitment to engaging with the fanbase, especially as the series approaches its climactic conclusion.

Secret Eagan Game: Speculations and Theories

A significant portion of the podcast is dedicated to their “Secret Egan Game,” wherein Joanna and Rob speculate on which characters might harbor hidden Egan identities—central figures manipulated by the enigmatic James Eagan. They consider various characters, offering detailed reasoning:

• Rickon Egan: Both hosts express hope that Rickon is a Secret Egan, citing humor and plausibility within the narrative (14:42, 18:21).

• Harmony Cabell: Joanna suggests Harmony may not be an Egan herself but could be the mother of one, possibly Helena, adding complexity to her character's motivations (14:52, 15:19).

• Ms. Wong and Dylan: Discussions reveal uncertainty about Ms. Wong’s potential Egan status, with Rob expressing disappointment over her departure and unanswered questions about her role (16:42, 24:03). Dylan's involvement remains ambiguous, with doubts cast on his potential as a Secret Egan (18:21).

Notably, Joanna shares listener theories from Reddit and email, enhancing the segment's interactivity and community feel (12:12, 14:35).

Plotline Breakdown

Severance intricately weaves multiple storylines, and this episode meticulously dissects key plot developments:

• Ms. Wong’s Departure: Joanna and Rob lament the seemingly abrupt exit of Ms. Wong, questioning the narrative purpose of her character who has been a pillar of mystery and thematic depth. They speculate on potential future appearances and the thematic implications of her role in highlighting child labor within the Lumen corporation (23:37, 25:25).

• Milchick vs. Drummond: The hosts analyze an intense encounter between Milchick and Drummond, interpreting Milchick's apparent resignation as a strategic move tied to the urgent completion of the Cold Harbor project. They critique the execution and emotional resonance of the scene, questioning its impact on character development (19:43, 20:08).

• Opening Credits Symbolism: Joanna examines the evolving symbolism in the show's opening credits, focusing on elements like the vial of milky goo (Mark’s medication) and the ice flow, pondering unanswered questions regarding their significance within the plot (10:42, 11:00).

Emotional Highlights

The episode emphasizes two major emotional arcs:

• Irving and Bert’s Relationship: A heartfelt discussion centers on the poignant farewell between Irving and Bert, portrayed by John Turturro. Joanna expresses mixed feelings about the scene's emotional depth, while Rob appreciates its bittersweet nature and the existential themes it explores. They debate the adequacy of the emotional payoff, with Rob highlighting the nuanced portrayal of love and loss (29:19, 32:05, 33:37).

  Joanna Robinson (32:53): “I had really hoped to feel more swept away by Irving and Bert’s farewell, but it felt slightly antiseptic.”

  Rob Mahoney (34:53): “It's a bittersweet thing. They can't have that sort of happy ending as Harmony laid out for everyone else. It's just not in the cards.”

• Dylan and Gretchen’s Complex Love Triangle: The hosts dissect the intricate dynamics between Dylan, Gretchen, and any potential Audi versions of themselves. Joanna grapples with the emotional consequences of Gretchen’s partial preference for Audi Dylan, questioning the possibility of reconciliation and mutual happiness.

  Joanna Robinson (42:10): “To have both an Outie in Irving and an Innie in Dylan experiencing first love is an extremely potent brew.”

  Rob Mahoney (45:52): “From Dylan's perspective, he feels betrayed by Gretchen choosing a different version of him. It’s like adultery on a different plane.”

Character Development and Storytelling Critique

Joanna and Rob critique the series' storytelling mechanics, particularly the handling of character arcs and plot progression:

• Mark’s Reintegration: There is frustration over the delayed and ambiguous depiction of Mark’s reintegration process. Hosts express impatience with the pacing and depth of Mark’s character development, fearing that essential narrative elements remain unexplored (64:02, 65:10).

  Joanna Robinson (65:11): “The cadence of the reintegration reveal is pushing my patience slightly.”

  Rob Mahoney (66:34): “We have so many balls in the air this season that a lot of the payoffs have nothing to do with what's happening this year.”

• Ms. Wong’s Narrative Closure: They express disappointment with Ms. Wong’s potential exit, suggesting that her character held more narrative potential that remains untapped.

  Rob Mahoney (24:38): “I still have so many questions about Ms. Wong. I hope this is not the end of her story.”

• Use of Mystery Box Storytelling: The hosts critique the show’s reliance on mystery box storytelling, feeling that it sometimes leads to misdirection and unresolved plot threads that hinder emotional engagement.

  Rob Mahoney (63:39): “This is a problem with Mystery Box storytelling overall, where the show doesn't want to show its hand.”

Listener Theories and Engagement

Engaging with their audience, Joanna and Rob discuss various listener-submitted theories and questions:

• Egg Symbolism: Listeners debate the significance of Emilia eating only egg whites, with Joanna and Rob analyzing its metaphorical implications regarding character suppression and control (49:45, 50:39).

• Cultural References: A listener points out musical cues resembling the Severance theme in Lemon Jelly's "The Bath," sparking discussions about the show's music and its influence on viewers’ emotional responses (70:27).

• Character Motivations: Questions about the true intentions and autonomy of characters like Devin highlight the ethical ambiguities within the Severance universe, fostering deeper analytical discussions (63:12).

Conclusion

As Severance moves closer to its Season 2 finale, Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney provide an insightful and critical examination of Episode 9, “Who’s the Secret Eagan?”. Their analysis underscores both the strengths and shortcomings of the series, particularly in character development and narrative execution. By incorporating listener theories and fostering interactive discussions, The Prestige TV Podcast not only dissects the intricacies of Severance but also builds a vibrant community eager to unravel the show's enigmatic layers together.

Listeners are encouraged to participate in upcoming live sessions and engage through email to further explore their theories and insights. With the finale on the horizon, the hosts anticipate resolving lingering plot threads and delivering satisfying conclusions to the complex storytelling web that Severance has woven.

Notable Quotes

• Joanna Robinson (05:51): “It's also full moon this week, and it's full moon on White Lotus this week as well. So I don't think they're planning any of this.”

• Rob Mahoney (20:15): “This was the like, I'm throwing my badge and gun on the table and storming out of the office speech.”

• Joanna Robinson (36:03): “This idea that your soul is your soul is your soul. Whether you're an idiot and an outie, and if you are drawn to someone as an innie, you're going to be drawn to them as an outie.”

• Rob Mahoney (45:52): “I totally agree with you that from Gretchen's perspective, she is seeing a version of the person that she loves.”

• Joanna Robinson (57:31): “No moaning at the breakfast table.”

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Note: All timestamps correspond to the provided transcript and are included to attribute specific quotes accurately.

Transcript

[Joanna Robinson]

This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's the White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors, Thai Iced Coffee and Pina Colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only, so for the love of coffee, go try them now. Foreign hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're here to talk to you about the. As Ben Stiller said a hundred different times in the official pod this week, the penultimate episode of Severance.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's. That's how you know he's a podcaster now.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, he loves the word penultimate. And he has arrived. So before we get into this episode, we're here to talk to you about episode nine, the After Hours, written by the creator Dan Ericson and directed by UTA Britz, who is. We've already talked about her as an incredible TV director previously in the season. So excited to talk to you about this. We haven't talked about this at all, Rob, so I actually don't know how you feel about this episode. We're going to do sort of like a big picture look before we do that. Some, like, programming announcements, and they're a little bit more detailed than they usually are, so. But with payoffs, don't skip ahead like you usually do. Pay attention. Okay?

[Rob Mahoney]

Take notes.

[Joanna Robinson]

The severance finale is next week, you may have heard.

[Rob Mahoney]

I've also heard it's 76 minutes long.

[Joanna Robinson]

76 minutes long, correct. Episode 10, 76 minutes long. So we will be breaking down that. That next week and that finale episode is going to drop Thursday night. So, like, right after the finale airs. This podcast, we usually do this on a Friday morning. This podcast will be up Thursday night next week. But we have a bonus episode next week because we just want to, like, squeeze every last drop of milk out of that goat. I guess I hated it, too. Okay, so Wednesday at noon Pacific, Rob and I are doing, like, a live Q A mailbaggy thing on YouTube. So we'll have links up in our socials and stuff like that, but you can find us on Ringer TV, the YouTube channel. We will be. You can email us your questions. Rob, where can they reach us for this podcast?

[Rob Mahoney]

Always at pineapple [e-mail] and of course at prestige [e-mail] if you're, I guess, less fun or you just don't feel like bobbing today.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, so you can, you can send your, your theories, your questions, your queries there.

[Rob Mahoney]

Please do. We're, we're going to need them. Like we're going to take questions live from the chat, of course, but we got to get some fodder to get started. So please send us in theories, ideas. I think just kind of general questions about the world of the show. It doesn't have to be guessing at the end game. Like let's, yeah, let's have, let's have fun with the goats among us.

[Joanna Robinson]

That sounds great. So, so yeah, so live Q and A on Wednesday at noon Pacific, Thursday night, drop for the finale pod and then we'll have a follow up pod for you guys at the beginning of the fall of the next week where we can engage with all of your emails, your reactions to the finale, all that sort of stuff. And we might have something more to do, but we will, we will reveal that as it comes. So that's all of our severance plans. In addition to the ongoing White Lotus coverage. Rob and I dipped into the pit this week. Rob, this is our third prestige episode together this week. Do you have any takes left in you or did you reserve some takes or severance or are you all takedown?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm a little take baron at the moment. But you know, something about these severance pods in particular, Joe just, just brings out the life in us. I think you know something about the cold, desolate wilderness of, of seeing Kier proper, of seeing, you know, Helena in a nice plunge pool. I, I just think there's something about this episode that's really gonna keep us alive.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, you, you notoriously love to dissect an egg into uncomfortably small pieces and eat it in front of your dad. Question mark.

[Rob Mahoney]

Even the egg cutter, I don't like it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't either. I, there are some kitchen implements where I'm just sort of like, we don't need this. And it makes me uncomfortable.

[Rob Mahoney]

The general rule is if it's a one use implement, you don't need it in your kitchen. And it seems like all this thing does is dice a boiled egg into six identical pieces, which you don't need anything to do.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, I have a follow up question for you on this. Yes. What about like citrus juicer?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean you can I. That one I think you have to have for one essential to your kitchen. Also juices multiple kinds of citrus.

[Joanna Robinson]

For the record, the loophole I thought you were going to find, I think it's allowed Follow up question. Apple quarter.

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Cut your apples or eat the apple. You don't need a core.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you know that? I used to. I worked in a bakery and I didn't know this. Yeah, just briefly when I was a teenager. And we had this thing that I love that was almost like a pencil sharpener where you basically, like, stab the apple onto it and you, like, crank it and it peels the apple. And it was just for, like, mass apple peeling for, like, various, like, strudels and pies and stuff like that. So, um, Pretty sick.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hell, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Stuff, but no egg cutter. Um, you mentioned the. The cold, frosty environs that we find all of our Egans and otherwise. In one last note on sort of timing of next week, our listener Zach wrote in to point out that the season two finale is airing on March 21, which is the spring equinox, aka the day in mythology that Persephone emerges from Hades and begins spring.

[Rob Mahoney]

Holy shit.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's also full moon this week, and it's full moon on White Lotus this week as well. So I don't think they're planning any of this.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think so either.

[Joanna Robinson]

But if they are, the Northern Californian in me loves. Loves to talk about it. So, you know. Okay, so let's. Let's start with big picture thoughts on the episode. Rob. Last week's episode, episode eight was, I would say, quite controversial. People felt pretty divided on it. A lot of people felt quite negative on it. How are you? You know, and we. We said it wasn't our favorite episode, but I thought we found a lot of, like, good stuff.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, easily, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

What. How did you feel about episode nine, Where. Where are you sitting with this?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think you're seeing some of the after effects of an episode like that where we talked about the sort of storytelling momentum in taking this huge diversion into Cobell's storyline. And you need that if you're going to reintroduce Cobel in the story in some way. If you're going to bring her back, you know, with Mark and Devin and. And loop her back into the action, you need to know what she's been up to. But that also means you have to do a lot of just kind of moving the chains on the other characters to get them now in place for the finale. And so I will say I did feel a lot of that, a lot of kind of positioning the pieces on the board. I also thought we just had some breathtaking emotional moments in this episode. And so that, to me, is a fair Enough balance for a. For a penultimate endeavor.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm really excited to talk to you about, like, how well those emotional moments hit or not for me as we go through, but I agree. I had like table setter in my notes here. I had checking in on plot lines we've been away from for three weeks, only to sort of clear the deck of players because there's a version of the finale where we don't see Irving, Bert, Ms. Wong, or maybe even Dylan.

[Rob Mahoney]

I know.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, like this. This is like, it's potentially setting up a. Just sort of like we've put these characters to the side in the case of Irving, maybe forever. Question mark or, or who's to say. So I, I thought that was interesting. And then. So I, I don't. I liked this episode better than I liked episode eight, though. To be clear, you and I were higher on episode eight than like some of the more critical fan pieces of the fandom. But my frustration points were a little sharper with this episode than they were with episode eight, because episode eight, sort of what Damon Lindelof was talking about when we talked to him early in the season about, like, sort of where in the season you can get away with certain things.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And in an episode 9 of a 10 episode season, when you have Harmony Cobell show up and dramatically say Cold harbor and then not tell them what Cold harbor is.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nope.

[Joanna Robinson]

In a way that no human would ever do that. Only a TV character keeping us in suspense about what Cold harbor is would do that. I felt like, I felt the sort of the gears behind the storytelling, you know, sort of groaning and creaking a little bit.

[Rob Mahoney]

Even the delivery, just Cold harbor, it's like this is not human interaction. I know Harmony Cobell is on her own wavelength, on her own planet in a lot of senses, but this is just not how any of this part of the story would go. I think overall, the Mark and Harmony stuff continues to mystify me as far as why that is being executed in the way it is. And we can get into it as we get into part of the story, but I have no answers as to why almost any of that is happening other than it needs to happen to get the story where it needs to go. And that's. That's not really satisfactory to me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you so much for sharing with us your incredible Harmony Cabell impression. And that reminds me that I should tell listeners, we here at the Ringer at Spotify are currently unable to put clips into our podcast for very boring reasons that we don't need to get into. But you will not hear any clips from the episode. Unlike last week, where we crammed, like, so many clips in. You won't hear any clips from, did we break it? Was it our fault?

[Rob Mahoney]

It might have been.

[Joanna Robinson]

You won't hear any clips from the episode. And we can't even do the Burvin drop. So we're gonna have to rely on Rob's impression is to get us through.

[Rob Mahoney]

And this week of all weeks, to not have the Birvin drop is heartbreaking.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's tough. No rank Crab rangoon. Like, what? We're bereft, honestly. But we'll. We'll soldier through. I wanted to start. I do want to go sort of like, plot line by plot line, but I want to start with this. Like, let's check in on the opening credits, because this is something that we've been, like, looking at every week. Not every week, but, like, as the season evolves, we're sort of like, oh, that's what that vial of milky goo is. It's the medicine that Mark's taking. Or that's why there's an ice flow. Or that's why there's this, that, and the other stuff. And so I'm looking at it. I'm like, what's still left that I don't feel like has been fulfilled by the plot yet?

[Rob Mahoney]

Is it the dozens of cure babies?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, we're going to get there. That's my last thing. First of all, more explicit Mark V. Mark scenarios. You know what I mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's such a foundational part of the opening credits. And I don't know that I feel like I've felt them in conflict with each other.

[Rob Mahoney]

Would you say that in the opening credits it is V? Because it's a lot of, like, Mark yanking the other version of himself around, pulling him through various holes and orifices. And it's. It's. It's not what you want. It's not what you want to see come out of a human head. But I. But I always interpreted it a little bit more as Mark helping Mark. Not necessarily like, helping, repositioning, maybe saving in some instances, maybe whipping about, but not necessarily being in direct conflict, if you know what I mean.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. So I think. I feel like there's some scenarios where it seems conflicted, but you're very right that there are also some scenarios where one is carrying the other. Let's say, like, under that, like, elevator curtain part of the opening credits. Okay. There's that heli. So, Gemma in the testing floor Elevator. We've seen.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

But that image in the opening credits flashes between Helena and Gemma. And on the one hand, that could just be, hey, these are two women that have captured Mark's fancy. Or are we gonna see, as seemed to be indicated in this episode, Helly and or Helena get on that elevator and go down to the testing floor before all is said and done.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, despite all of the Mark and Harmony and Devon plans, Heli's the person who's actually, like, closest to getting to the testing floor to the extent that when she goes down there, she will still be Heli, which we don't really know.

[Joanna Robinson]

She won't be, though. That's the one. That's the thing. I'm. Okay, here's. Here's a theory I saw on Reddit this morning. Credit to the Redditors. They're the best. That really intrigued me. And again, we're gonna. We're gonna save most of our. What's gonna happen. The finale, even though I just started talking about it for our Q and A. But if Helly and Mark both get on that testing floor elevator and go down. Yes, it will be their Audis on the testing floor. Yeah, it will be Chinese Diner Zufu Energy down on the testing floor. And that's very exciting to me. They're not going to make that exciting.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're not going to make it out of that elevator. Those two in a confined space. I put nothing past them.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think that could be really fun. Okay, last but not least, proliferation of baby cures.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's one way to put it.

[Joanna Robinson]

That brings me now to a segment I'm calling Secret Egan Game. I would like to play with you, Rob Mahoney.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm so glad that there's just an endless variety of shows we can apply secret baby logic to.

[Joanna Robinson]

I, you know, secret baby for sure. But also this was reminding me of like in the. Were you a Battlestar Galactica?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, of course. So say we all, Joe?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Secret Cylon or the height of Thrones mania? Secret Targaryen. Like, this is a game we like to play. Okay, so Secret Egan we get in this episode when they're breaking into the birthing cabins. She's one of. Of James, right? Like that fake pregnant Devin is one of James. Which the implication is that Jamie Egan, like Elon Musk, has decided to just sort of spread his seed all around. He's getting the betterment of.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's a busy man.

[Joanna Robinson]

There was a. An item in the newspaper that. That mentioned that a woman got pregnant while she Was severed.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

That was a whole thing.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it was a news report. It was like a TV news report where Natalie had to explain how it happened on, like, cnn.

[Joanna Robinson]

Effectively one of James, is what I would say. Okay, so let's go down a list, and I would just like to hear your input.

[Rob Mahoney]

Number one, Rickon on my list. By far the funniest secret possibility. I really hope Ricken is an Egan.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rickens on my list. Okay. Rob says yes. I'm just gonna take notes here. Okay. Harmony Cabell, I think twofold.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is she an Egan? And then has she had a child by an Egan?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think no and yes is what we're being positioned for. Like the, her showing up at the birthing site knowing just what to say. Sounded a lot to me like she's been on the other side of that situation before where she was the one being smuggled in. Perhaps.

[Joanna Robinson]

Plus, our listener. Our listener Holly, wrote Harmony, if not an actual lactation consultant, knows enough to assist Devin, Maybe from personal experience.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. So not a, not an actual Egan herself, but perhaps the mother of an Egan.

[Joanna Robinson]

And we already mentioned this early in the season, but could that Egan in particular be Helena? Helly, we know nothing about Helena's mom.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I think if Harmony is in fact the mother of an Egan, it would almost have to be Helena, just based on the characters on the board. Unless it's like, oh, there was a mystery baby that is since dead or out of the story for some reason. Like, the narrative knots, I think would start to tie themselves if it's someone we don't know. And so, yeah, if there's, if there's going to be a connection, it would be to Helena, which I don't love, to be honest with you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Me neither. Mark or Devin.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, I don't think so.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree. Okay. Drummond.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes, but like, extended family. I think he's more of a cousin or something.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or like, just like a Egan. Yeah, like an Egan bastard. I mean, I guess they all are. I don't like that word. Anyway. Okay. A connected, distantly connected Egan. Okay. And then I felt a little uneasy in my heart, my mind and my soul and my stomach when I googled whether or not the following actors were biracial. But I did do that. So let's talk about this.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ms. Wong?

[Rob Mahoney]

Possible, possible, Possible.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dylan.

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. And then here's my fave personally, on the pod, on the official pod this week, which was, like, not the most. I, I, I think I got the least out of this particular official pod, not out of Entertainment. But, like, I think they're just holding all their cards very close to you have to right here before the finale. So I understand why. But their interview this week was Sidney Cole Alexander, who plays Natalie, and she had this really interesting part where she was talking about earlier in the season, the two encounters between Natalie and Milchick when Milchick is trying to have this sort of like, hey, have you, a person of color, had this same experience as I, a person of color? Can we find fellowship and common cause here?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And what Sidney Cole Alexander said is like, that she is an actress, made this choice to lean into Natalie's what she called light skinnedness, to say, no, we are not the same, you and I. I am a light skinned, like, person of color and you are not. And that makes me different, slash quote unquote, like, better, like in. In the warped imaginations of a Natalie.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

So could a Natalie be a Secret Egan?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's possible. I. I would say the fact that she was also given the paintings suggests that, I mean, she's clearly being othered in a way that's similar to Belichick. I'm gonna say no just because I frankly, I don't want too many Secret Egans on the board. And so if I'm already putting one or two up there, I don't want Natalie to be one as well.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so to recap, it's Rickon.

[Rob Mahoney]

I hope so. I really hope so.

[Joanna Robinson]

And unfortunately, perhaps Harmony has, you know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mothered a secret or. Or a claim. Deacon. Okay, so that's. That has been the stomach churning game of Secret Egan. If you have nominations for this bleak, bleak game, you can email us at pineapple [e-mail] or prestige TV at Spotify.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Who. Who else could it be? Like, Like Mark W. Secret Egan. Ali A Shawkat Secret Egan.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Random. Was he an attack? Was he an Italian guy? What was the other guy? Okay, thank you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Secret Egan. That was a. Hate Italy.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's all right. You know, James has been abroad, you know, like, he's a. He is a busy man. He's a man about town.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, I'm not putting Continental travel again.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think he's capable of anything.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's true. Okay, let's do. Let's go sort of person by person as we go through this episode because everyone is kind of siloed into their own story by design. We are, we are meant to say, wow, Milchick's plan of basically decimating the MDR camaraderie has certainly worked, and everyone has their own little side plot. But let's start not with a member of the MDR team. Let's talk. Start with Milk.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Milchick v. Drummond. This is an incredible encounter, obviously. What do you think that the only reason he wasn't fired on the spot is because of this intensive pressure around the completion of Cold Harbor?

[Rob Mahoney]

Basically, yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

No other way. He would not be fired on the spot for what he did here. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

This was the like, I'm throwing my badge and gun on the table and storming out of the office speech.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

So, yeah, like, it felt like he was quitting, even though obviously he is not. And I think the nature of this interaction overall, and Milchik kind of asserting some of his authority and asserting some of what actually is his jurisdiction, I think sets up pretty effectively the stuff with Mark on the phone in the subsequent scenes like that. That almost doesn't happen if he's feeling desperate and under the gun. And, like, Drummond is all, like, on his back trying to get Mark to come back in to finish Cold harbor asap. And so, like, the idea of giving Mark the day, I think, is dependent on this exchange happening. That said, Joe, I. I will say this exchange felt very mixed to me and some of it very, very flat. The monosyllabically situation, I enjoyed him rightly pointing out. Not my job. Not. Not my. Not my circus, not my monkeys out in the outside world. Devour feculence. Way too cute.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Way, way too cute.

[Joanna Robinson]

I kind of agree with you. Even though I. You know, my understanding is that it is quite popular a moment among people. A satisfying thing to say to one's horrible boss, but.

[Rob Mahoney]

But somehow less satisfying than eat.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Were you fellow Buffy head reminded of. Because our listener Vinnie pointed out that when he says to put that monosyllabically, he then follows it with monosyllables like, it's not my fault what Mark Scout does when he is not at work. It's yours. Right? Did it remind you at all of Buffy and Spike out for a walk, Bitch. Bitch. I'm always thinking about Spike when I can. I kind of agree. And there's a few. So there's a few, like, callbacks inside of this episode. Episode. This is. This is more of a resolution, not a callback. But there's a few moments that call back in ways that satisfy me. You know, like this episode ends with She's Alive, which was the cliffhanger ending of the season one finale.

[Rob Mahoney]

One More for the Road. If someone who does have access to clips and can put them together in a super cut in a way that we no longer can. Can put together every time someone this season has said some variation of She's Alive, I would love to see it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Nothing tops the season one finale of the Slow Mo.

[Rob Mahoney]

The Slow Mo. So good.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, you know, there's a couple different callbacks and some work and some don't. And, yeah, some feel a little too cute for me. And. And I. I'm. I'm inclined to agree with you. As for Ms. Wong, who is sent to Gunnel Egan's Empathy center in Svalbard, where she will work to steward global reforms. This feels to me like a Milchick call rather than a Lumen call. Definitely Milchick being like, you hung me out to dry. You narked on me. I do not like having you here. You're at. I'm sending you to Svalbard, which, like, if you thought it was cold and dreary and cure, wait till you get a load of Svalbard. That's tough. Anything you want to say about Ms. Wong's departure here or sort of the role if we don't see her again this season or at all, the role she played this season?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm a little confounded by the character, and some of that is like, was she just here to add to the weirdness of the dynamic and to kind of sop up mystery as we're going along and trying to figure out who she is and what role she plays? Obviously, there is the element of taking this idea of child labor, which is so critical to the Lumen identity, and transposing it into an office setting and calling it a fellowship. All good. All good here. No problems whatsoever.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's a classic rebranding.

[Rob Mahoney]

Classic rebranding. I appreciate the PR work.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

@ the end of the day, I still have so many questions about Ms. Huang. I hope this is not the end of her story. If the end of her arc is her as a little girl with her earmuffs waiting for the bus, I understand what we're doing there, but it feels like kind of a missed opportunity given her presence throughout this season and given how fascinating that character could be. And so I am still waiting for something with Ms. Wong, and I hope this show continues to pay off her presence in the story. I'm just a little worried that she might be out of here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let me tell you my inside baseball reason why I think this is the last we see of Ms. Wong. How soon do you think it's going to be until we get severance.

[Rob Mahoney]

Season three, eight years.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. This is a classic. This is a classic. Eye sources back to the TV show Lost where they had a. A kid in the first season and then he just got really tall and they had to sort of contort the plot to write him out of the show. Tall waltz. So this happens all the time on shows when you cast kids. You gotta. This is why. This is why. Allegedly, the Harry Potter actors for the potentially ill advised hbo. Who's to say HBO show that they're making. I think they're making it like back to back to back to back. Because those kids are going to grow.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And you gotta bank that. Try to like outpace them. So Ms. Wong, the actress who plays Ms. Wong, Sarah Bach, I believe, has just enrolled in college.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. I want to say Northwestern. I saw a clip of her as like a. Like a little meet and greet clip at Northwestern. What a delight.

[Joanna Robinson]

And she was talking about like, was it Brit Lauer? It was like one of. One of her. One of the cast mates, I think it was. What. Who like, recommended her like that she. Check out Northwestern.

[Rob Mahoney]

What a rec letter to get Brit Lauer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, Brit Lauer, rec letter for Northwestern. But like. Yeah, I mean, you know, anyway, I. I feel like that's probably the last we'll see Ms. Wong. And I think your idea of her as a mystery sponge is one thing, but I think mostly it's just a sort of show. And I could be wrong. They seem to really like her. But like, I think it's meant to show. Yes. The history of child labor at Lumen. Sure. And then also.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

The potential insidious future. We talked about this in the previous pod. This idea that's floated in one of the newspaper clippings about Lumen experimenting with severing as young as five. So in terms of that degree of child labor. Grim. Quite grim.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think putting us inside that process of a child being indoctrinated, being brought up in the system in the way that Harmony was. For example, different timeline, but similar, like similar circumstances.

[Joanna Robinson]

That is helpful to have less ether, like a little bit.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would certainly hope. I. I just think overall this season, what I'm coming to. And maybe I'll feel differently on the other side of the finale. A lot of the backstage stuff we've gotten as to the operations at Lumen hq, the Milchick storylines, I thought initially led with so much promise and so much like, potential emotionality and ultimately kind of fizzled out for me. The Ms. Wong stuff. Similarly, like, I was so Eager to get to know this character and understand her more out of the gate. This is where we end up potentially with that character. Like, I. I just feel a little disappointed. For example, if. If Milchick's story this season is coming into his own by returning to the similar flowery language that he prefers, I.

[Joanna Robinson]

Feel like we've got more. With the potential clearing out of a number of other characters, Milchik is primed to be in the mix next week, and so I hope there's something more than plot for him to do.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I just feel like Drummond as Word Police is such a goofy place for this plot line to end up, and I think that's what undercuts some of the power in, like, Tramell. Tillman's given an amazing performance and I think ultimately delivers some absolutely phenomenal phone acting with Mark as he's sort of navigating the aftermath of these conversations. Yeah, yeah. I just think it's a weird exchange and it's a weird place for this character, and who knows where it will end up. But so far I'm having a little trouble with the milkshake stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

Overall, who among us hasn't stared at a too small iceberg photo on the wall to inspire us to give grace to our colleagues as they call in?

[Rob Mahoney]

Should we throw one up in the void?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, for me here, some ambiance here in the Void.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it'd be nice.

[Joanna Robinson]

I also really like that Mark's like, I just need the day. I'm not sick. I just need the fucking day. That's. I support it. Okay, so let's. Let's turn from those plot lines to something more overtly emotional, which is, like, Irving and Dylan. We'll talk about them one by one. But I wanted to group them together here because I'm going to go ahead and call in front of the pod. Alan Sepamol was talking to me about this episode, and I was, like, expressing some of my frustrations, he pointed out, and I really like this point that, like, Irving and Dylan inside of this episode exist as this sort of, like, cautionary tale for the love triangle Quadrangle Polycule, that we're tracking with Mark and his various ladies.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Previously, Harmony Cobell said quite memorably that there's no honeymoon ending waiting for Mark. Right. And that hasn't stopped us from trying to, like, do the math that will make it work out.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's a lot of math involved, though. The geometry is getting increasingly complex.

[Joanna Robinson]

How can Emma be happy and Helly be happy and maybe even Helena be happy. And all the marks be happy. You know, and. And what we see here with the absolute dissolution of the Dylan. Dylan Gretchen love triangle.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the Irving. The burving. You want to. You want to give us.

[Rob Mahoney]

Everybody's talking about burving. Everybody's talking about Burv.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rob is incredible. And I really appreciate you.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, I. I have to go to a really deep and dark place in my soul to channel Billy, but you got this. I appreciate it, though. Thank you, Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know. Thank you. And then Irving and Bert and. And this. This sad ending for them. I do want to talk about this. You mentioned feeling more emotional. I. I got really wound up by the Dylan stuff. The Birvin stuff.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, that didn't work for you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, it did and it didn't. Okay, so we're in. I had. I had texted you before you saw the. The episode that there was, like, an unexpected say Nothing crossover. You thought I was talking about a cast member, I assumed. But what I meant was they smuggled.

[Rob Mahoney]

In Dolores Price into this show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. That they. That they took a plot line of the main character of say Nothing and this idea of how implicated are you in the dirty deeds if you're just driving the people to the place where they get shot or otherwise mangled or buried? So it turns out that Bert, as we expected, is an enforcer of some kind for Lumen. A goon, a hench. And. And. But has such, like, unexplained feelings for Irving that he is trying to smuggle him out of cure before Drummond can do anything to him. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So they go to this train station which they filmed in bed. Stiller pronounced it Utica. I've always pronounced it Utica. But I think he's right and I'm wrong. Anyway, in. In. In Utica on the east coast, there's a. There's a Utica in California as well, but that's not where they were. And then they say goodbye, and there is this. Here's what I'll say. I am a huge crier at TV shows. You know this about me. I've told you that, like, I cry during episodes of the Pit. Like, this is a crime.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, the Pit is pulling the heartstrings. They're really going for it hard.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you a TV crier, Rob? I don't know that I know if you are.

[Rob Mahoney]

It takes a bit. I think for me, it really takes, like, more than just a moment. It needs to be sort of the culmination of a storyline. Right. Like, you take Me on a journey. And that payoff is really gonna hit hard by the end. And so, yeah, I'm not getting there with this. And I think that speaks to maybe some of the way the birthing stuff is handled in general, which is a little chopped up, a little bits and pieces, a little disparate, a little. There's some. There's like an emotional distance within so much of severance. Right. These are characters who are trying to reconcile different parts of themselves. And so I feel the distance. I just think in this case, I also am such a sucker for the looping and the callback and the reference and overall, the way that they are trying to close that. Like these two characters who are so desperate for connection, trying to close that distance together.

[Joanna Robinson]

So the. The callback that you're referencing here is in season one, episode six, in the Plant Room. Irving and Bert share this moment where Bert is like, hey, there's nothing in the handbook that says we can't have live to live contact. And Irving's like, well, actually, blah, blah. And Bert kind of goes for it. Irving says, I'm truly sorry, but I'm just not ready.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And Bert says. And rewatching that, this scene actually kind of got choked up. The season one, episode 16.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

The way that walk in as Bert delivers. Just stay, Stay here with me. So I'm not ready. Just stay here with me versus I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready, I'm ready. Bert saying, bon voyage, Buddy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, he gives them the I can't first or we can't.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes. There's more tender stuff. But, like, versus. Just stay here with me. Bon voyage, buddy.

[Rob Mahoney]

I did not love Bon Voyage, Buddy.

[Joanna Robinson]

But no, no, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not anti the writing of it. It's a crushing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Attempt at, you know, distancing himself from intimacy to say buddy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

All of that sort of stuff. I will say this. I feel like I'm kind of an easy mark for a cry. And thinking about, you know, some of the shows that I love the most, some of the shows that you and I like, thinking about the leftovers and thinking about, like, if you think about a moment like this in the leftovers, given the way that they built all of those stories, I would be, like, sobbing through this. This would be devastating. And there is, you know, and Chris and Andy have been flagging this all season. There is this sort of, like, slightly antiseptic quality. I will about to reverse completely when we get to Dylan, like, we'll talk about that in a second. But there is a slightly sort of, like, chilly quality that kept me at a slight remove. And I wanted to just sort of like, be devastated and feel it and be swept away by it. But that's sort of like where I sat with it. How about you?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think it is a devastating moment. I think it is somewhat of a bittersweet thing. And that look, that is my zone as far as this kind of content goes. Like, that's exactly what I am looking for. And so I think part of it is these characters are not going to have that sort of emotionality. These are two people who, in their respective ways, are quite repressed. Right. Like, Irving, as he explains, has never experienced this kind of love or any kind of love like it before. And so he is desperate to hold onto it so tightly. And I think the whole idea of what does it feel like to be loved with an action like this is such a poignant idea. And I really love. I really. I really gravitated towards that as much as anything. And then, you know, Burt, in his way, is not repressed because he's in an openly gay relationship. He has a partner, he has a different kind of life. But he's like. This sort of relationship is one that I just found myself wondering so many times with them, as we have with many of the character interactions throughout the show. Is Bert feeling some echo of what his innie self felt, or is he merely trying to honor the love that he knows existed between him and the inner version of Irving?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think. And, you know, I think, again, Damon Lindelof put this really well when we were talking to him about it. This idea of, like, your soul is your soul is your soul. Whether you're an idiot and an outie, and if you are drawn to someone as an innie, you're going to be drawn to them as an outie. Like, see also Helena and Mark at the Chinese restaurant. This is just sort of like, idea of a connection that transcends whatever.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so that brings foreheads together, apparently.

[Joanna Robinson]

I do think he feels that and has, you know, this obligation to Fields or this understanding that there's nothing they can do because lumens, like, would never let this happen, and. And it would put Irving in danger and all this sort of stuff like that. So I think. I think he is feeling it not just like, honoring it intellectually, but feeling it emotionally. That's my understanding of it. And it's. I. I love a. Like, Bittersweet is such a good description of It I love. They wanted to, but they didn't. Yeah, that's like a. That's a. That's a really good storytelling mode that I absolutely love the brief encounters, like sort of thing. So again, I just sort of expected to feel much more than I wound up feeling. I don't know, maybe. Maybe the pit sort of just like drained it out of me.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think what sealed it for me ultimately was, yes, some of the echoes in that exchange. And we even get like the same sort of pondersome music cues that are from that sort of garden scene in season one here in the train station. Like we are bringing everything full circle for these characters. But once Irving gets on the train and the sort of smile that Turturro is playing there I think is part of what brings it home for me. And this idea that sometimes you do have to let people go, sometimes you do have to get on the train. Sometimes you. This is what a relationship is meant to be. To be a thing in your life that is not meant to last. I love that landing point for these characters because they can't. Like there is not a plausible way for them to have a happy ending as harmony laid out for everyone else. It's just not in the cards. And so put him on the train. Bring radar. Good boy.

[Joanna Robinson]

What a good boy.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I like this send off. I will say, is there a non zero chance this is the last we see of John Turturro on the show?

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. Listen, there are some questions that still need to be answered in terms of like who is he talking to on the phone this season?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like all that sort of stuff that. That makes me feel like we should see him again.

[Rob Mahoney]

Should for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

But also Turturro has been saying things in interviews all season that makes it sound like he. Here's what. Here's actually what I think the state of affairs is.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Turo is not sure if he wants to come back. So they've done in like an apples save. Like we put him on a train and we could bring him back if we need to. Or that's the last time you've seen Irving. You know, that makes sense. I mean, I think devastated. Yeah, I. I would be really crushed if we did not get any more Irving, but it's possible.

[Rob Mahoney]

As would I. And I. I hate that you have to write yourself into those corners, but just. Yeah. From a cast perspective, I could see John Turturro being like, yeah, I. I had fun. We did it. I'm on to the next thing. He. He's A working actor who's in lots of stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

He talked about how much he hated. A sad thing, I think, for all of us is, like, we haven't seen the MDR team together since the Orpo. Right? And we haven't seen them together in the office since, like, episode three, which is, like, what we initially understood to be, like, the premise of the show. And they bent over backwards to contort the plot to get them all back together. But yes, for one episode, you know, so when we see. And we're meant to feel that when we see Heli alone at the 4 desk, you know, setup, like, we're meant to feel that. But Turturro has said a number of interviews how much he hated specifically filming under the lights of the office. So I wonder if, like, turtles, like, I'll come back, but you're not putting me on that office set for more than, like, a few days.

[Rob Mahoney]

Exteriors only for John Turturro from here.

[Joanna Robinson]

On out on Radar Watch.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I should say that, like, Mallory Rubin, when watching this episode, texted me, like, five minutes in, and she's like, it's a radar gonna be okay. You need to tell me this before I watch more of this episode. Our listener Elena. Elena probably wrote in and with a fun fact that I didn't know. The dog who plays Radar is also the dog who played Mondale on Succession. The dog is named Ditto. Very good boy. Playing both Radar and Mondale. So here's the question from Elena.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is this dog better off with Irving? But it won't be. So I guess with Irving on a train.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Going somewhere. Or with Shiv and Tom.

[Rob Mahoney]

Easily with Irving.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I agree.

[Rob Mahoney]

Shiv and Tom had their head Montale in, like, a little playpen. Despite their massive flat, like, the tiniest crate. Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

For that dog. Despite so much room.

[Rob Mahoney]

Those are not good dog owners. It's just.

[Joanna Robinson]

No.

[Rob Mahoney]

You could tell it from every aspect of their personality.

[Joanna Robinson]

Devastating. Devastating for our guy Irving. You know, how old is John turturro? In his 60s, would you say? Seems fair guess to have, you know, someone like that, say, like, I've never experienced romantic love at all in my life.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

As an Audi. And then we get to Dylan and any who says to Gretchen, like, my life started when I met you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I did not exist before you. And she's like, sure you did. And he's like, nope, it was just finger traps and erasers. And that was it. It was nothing, you know? So I think it's really poignant to have both an Outie in Irving and an innie in Dylan. Be like, I've never. This is my first like, brush up against the concept of love.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

What a heady, powerful thing it is. And to think about every innie on this show. Helly and Mark definitely included every relationship we've seen. This is like first love.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Which is like an extremely potent brew, to quote Mali Rubin. So Dylan aggression and Dylan.

[Rob Mahoney]

A proper Mickey 17 throuple in action.

[Joanna Robinson]

Nice Mickey 17 reference. I feel like there's a way these crazy kids could have made this throuple work.

[Rob Mahoney]

You think so?

[Joanna Robinson]

But. And I mean, I'm with any Dylan. Like, why wouldn't he be happy that, you know, we all get to.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. I feel like that's short changing Audi Dillon's anxieties quite a bit. I think there is obviously, look, there's the. I love that as we are getting this more complicated love triangle quadrangle geometry happening, we have all of these different aspects of the emotional fallout. I think Irving's version of that is not even experiencing the love. At least outtie Irving not experiencing it, but feeling the pain of losing it. That's such a weird kind of sci fi idea that I think not a lot of genres can tackle in the way that severance can tackle Helly's pain. As she's confronted by Dylan in this episode is this idea that the other version. No heli's as she. You know, she and Dylan have the debrief where he, he confronts her with the idea that like, Mark couldn't even tell the difference between you and Helena. This idea that your romantic partner wouldn't know you well enough to separate you from your other self. And then I think for Dylan it's that Gretchen can tell a difference, but she likes the other guy better. Like she. She likes the other version of you better.

[Joanna Robinson]

That she can tell the difference between Audi Dylan and any Dylan. And she likes any Dylan better is what you're saying.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I mean the whole, the whole conversation with her and Audi Dylan when she was. He kind of braces her and preempts like, oh, are you going to say it didn't mean anything? And Gretchen's responsive. I wasn't going to say that. Like, it clearly meant a lot to her.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like she doesn't say better. Here's. Here's my. Here's my.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's going back to him for a reason. Right. Like, and she's keeping it secret for a reason.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, here's my sunshine and lollipops. Hopeful sort of Once again, representing the Bay Area pro throuple argument, we love a polycule. Isn't there a way in which the. Any Dylan and Gretchen interactions could, like, help reawaken Gretchen's connection to Audi Dillon, remind her what she loved about him in the first place.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And remind her to look for those things in him in his Audi version. Not just him being deeply inept around the house and all the other things that are true about him. Do you know what I mean? Like, yes. Or, you know, and this is certainly what Audi Dylan is afraid of. She gives up on Audi version entirely because she's got access to any Dylan. Like, for sure, that's the fear. But I feel like there's a way in which all of this could make a rising tide, could raise all boats, and we could all sort of like, get something out of this. Again, I'm trying to force a honeymoon ending for fucking someone in this debacle. And Dylan and Gretchen and Dylan are like, I don't know, maybe my. My best option here, but maybe not.

[Rob Mahoney]

I love everything that's happening between them. I just don't see it. I think. I think Audi Dillon might have been through too much to, like, I. I totally agree with you that from Gretchen's perspective, she is seeing a version of the person that she loves.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

From Dylan's perspective, he's saying, you cheated on me with this other version of me. And look, maybe that's the strongest case yet for any personhood is that to Dylan, any. Dylan is a different person from him. To him, this is adultery to him, like, his wife has betrayed him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that's where it's hard to reconcile some of the differences between, like, are these different people? Are they different versions of the same people? Are. Is any Dillon a less jaded, more naive version of Audi Dillon like we've been talking about all season? Like, I think all of that is kind of true.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just. Here's what I think, and admittedly, I've never been inside a love triangle with myself and my wife, but, like, with.

[Rob Mahoney]

The other version of you that your wife told you not to worry about.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't worry about it. But, like, are we not all being a bit hasty? Like, Gretchen breaks the news.

[Rob Mahoney]

These are matters of the heart, Joe. They. They happen in hasty fashion.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can't we just say, hey, listen, we got to pump the brakes on this for a second. You're out. He's having a hard time with it. I'm going to keep talking to him about it. Let's See how we feel. He's threatening to quit, which is effectively killing any villain. Right. Like, I'll kill him, essentially.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

So I understand why Gretchen would be like, I got to put the stop to this to save you, essentially. But I just feel like there's a way. I mean, I understand we're inside of a TV show and it's full of drama, but, like, isn't there just a way that we could all just, like, take a beat, go to some couples counseling?

[Rob Mahoney]

But who's going to the counseling? Which. Which version of Dylan?

[Joanna Robinson]

Everyone, I think.

[Rob Mahoney]

Honestly, I think that's such a huge part of what makes this sort of setup so fascinating is that any. An outie Dylan can never have a conversation. Right. He could get reintegrated. He could become one more complete Dylan, but he's never gonna know. And so his idea of what the Innie version of himself is is always gonna be even worse and even more intimidating and even more painful than the reality via technology. You want to use. Bust out that retro camcorder.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Send some tapes back and forth.

[Joanna Robinson]

I had a conversation with Ellie.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, you know, did that go well?

[Joanna Robinson]

No. Okay, we're gonna come back to that. Also, the heartbreak. The Dylan Zach cherry, like, screaming, Gretchen, the proposal with the ring.

[Rob Mahoney]

The ring is quite elegant, I gotta say.

[Joanna Robinson]

Beautiful stuff from our guy. This is the second podcast this week. I'm gonna say this, but any Dylan hidden Swifty paper rings. Who's to say? Wow. I say yes. But, yeah, very, very sad stuff.

[Rob Mahoney]

Honestly, do the Innies know who Taylor Swift is?

[Joanna Robinson]

That's a great question.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess. What. What transcends, like, pop culture knowledge and transfers into knowledge of the world? Because I would argue knowledge of Taylor Swift is less like, are you familiar with this band? And more like, are you familiar with this cultural event?

[Joanna Robinson]

Severance with love and respect is so inconsistent on this front. We've talked about this Alia Shotcat being like, what does wind feel like?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Versus like, they know how to dress themselves. You know what I mean? It's just sort of like there's just like, what do they. What do they retain? And. And earlier in the season, we did get, like, long emails from brain scientists who are just sort of like, this is how memory works or whatever. I feel like Taylor Swift might be a big enough cultural event that it could sort of permeate you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Bigger than wind. Taylor Swift. Bigger than wind. There, I said it. Okay, let's talk about the Egans. The not so secret Egans. Egg. Egg stuff. Go. Is what I wrote here in this. We've already talked about the egg stuff a bit. One of our listeners, Francesca, pointed out that Helena was eating the. Taking small cuts and only eating the boiled white. The outer. Yeah, the Audi of the egg.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not 100% sure on this because I feel like when we cut back to the play, I think it's a great call and I love if this is true. When we cut back to the plate, it's a little obscured by the angle, but it looks like some of the yolks are also gone. So I'm not 100% sure that she's an Audi only. That's it. If you were an innie. Only if you're making boiled eggs and only eating straight yolks. I'm concerned.

[Joanna Robinson]

I've never heard your accent come through stronger than on the word yolk.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's because of the y'all hybrid. You know, it's yolk. Just the hard. Why Sounds really bring it out of me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. And then our listener who signed the email, Ted Word. So I'm just going to take them for their word that. That is their name. Okay. Says, would you rather eat a raw egg while Jamie again watches you or watch Jamie and eat a raw egg in front of you?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm really scared of what that looks like for him to eat the raw egg.

[Joanna Robinson]

So ghoulish.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, but look, is there something so wrong about a proud, supportive father who just wants to watch his daughter eat raw eggs? Is that so wrong Job?

[Joanna Robinson]

I would rather you had taken it wrong.

[Rob Mahoney]

Everything about this was horrible. Jesus Christ, Jamiegan.

[Joanna Robinson]

God, it was gross.

[Rob Mahoney]

And honestly, look, the whole. I really enjoyed.

[Joanna Robinson]

I wish you'd take them raw. That's what he said.

[Rob Mahoney]

No one say that again in the history of the world. No one say it again. Also, if you are sitting across the room and watching your daughter eat boiled eggs, do not softly moan to yourself. Don't do it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or even I let's. Or loudly moan. How about no moaning at the breakfast table?

[Rob Mahoney]

No moaning at the breakfast table.

[Joanna Robinson]

No moan zone at the breakfast table.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we can all agree upon that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Do you think he is not eating himself because of his revolving.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, this dude's a straight blood bag, Joe. Like he's being pumped full of nutrients. He is not consuming food of any kind. I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's Soylent. Soylent, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Something is keeping him alive and it's not eggs.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, great. Okay, this is what Dan Erickson said in the post episode thing that went up on apple. After the episode credits, he says, Jamie, again, is never going to give her the foundational love that we all need in order to be human beings. Duh. I mean, like, I could have told you that, but not. Not done to him. But, like, is this something Helena is only just reading realizing as she is bisecting and bisecting and bisecting a boiled egg in front of her creepy, creepy father after her cold plunge swim?

[Rob Mahoney]

Also, am I. Am I just, like unwashed swine that I'm. I feel like she is being overly delicate with this egg white. Like she's cutting it into the smallest possible. You can just eat.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

The 1/6th piece of egg white in a bite. That is a reasonable sized bite.

[Joanna Robinson]

You can. I mean, not to be like an absolute rube, but you can also just like, take a boiled egg and take a bite of it. Right?

[Rob Mahoney]

You can. I will say I once in a different life, Joe played middle school football. My middle school football coach would come into the locker room and eat an entire hard boiled egg. Not in bite, just pop the whole thing in his mouth and then mash it while talking to people.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was horrendous with, like, yolk crumbs.

[Rob Mahoney]

Of course, they're spraying all over the place. It was terrible.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's simply a no for me. Listen, this is a big day for Jay, Megan, everything. It's all coming. It's all culminating around whatever's happening with Cold harbor, et cetera, et cetera. We don't really understand what it is. Do you take it?

[Rob Mahoney]

Is Cold harbor to him a breakthrough that will lead to something, or are we supposed to interpret that like his revolving is supposed to happen today?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think cold. They have to complete Cold Harbor.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

So that he can revolve.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I don't know how those two things are related, but that's what feels true to me. Yeah. And as Harmony points out in this episode, in that process, Gemma is either literally or at least figuratively dead. I mean, as good as dead.

[Rob Mahoney]

She makes it sound straight up, actually dead.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. What does she say exactly? She says, and if you've completed it, well. Well, what? She's already dead. But, like, she's already dead, honestly. And it's so, like, severance could mean, like a number of things. Do you know what I mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

The plausible deniability of this show, really.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tremendous on this idea of, like, revolving. Who sits with Kier? All this sort of stuff like that. One of our listeners wrote in to underline the fact that in episode eight, when our favorite character Sissy is talking about, like, the rooms in the house. She says that room stays shut until all who remember her sit with Kier.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So the idea of sit with Kier as a phrase just meaning dead.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, Pass on.

[Joanna Robinson]

Pass on. Yeah. I think that's just something. Again, that's just sort of like flowery language to think about when we parse whatever they're trying to say of, like, be at my side of my revolving. Like, what is that? What does that mean, you know, in the. In the language of this world? Helly. You already mentioned the Dylan and Helly conversation, which I thought was really good. Dylan identifying the most hurtful thing that he could possibly say to her. But her being the kind of person who's like, it, I'm gonna do this. But her being like, Irving did know the difference. And what did Irving want? Irving wanted us to figure out what was going on with the elevator. So I'm going to do this thing that Irving wanted.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And that is her goal. She's the last faithful to use traitor's language. Left at the cubicle. And then here comes dad to say my heli. You tricked me. Okay, so, I mean, it's better than.

[Rob Mahoney]

Every other thing he said in this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's deeply true. I wish you had taken it raw. Okay, so, like, my hell, you tricked me. Do you think this is just a reference to the season one finale where she did indeed trick him there?

[Rob Mahoney]

I didn't even take it that way necessarily. I interpreted this as he was promised. Two things. One, Mr. Bailiff was going to be dealt with in this episode. I don't know that he knows what happened with Irving as of yet, so I'm going to say it's not related to that, per se. The other thing was, he was basically assured today is the day. Today is the day that Cold harbor will be completed. And it's very clear we are stuck at that 96%. Joe not has not budged all day long.

[Joanna Robinson]

No.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so I saw it as him coming in. It's, you know, 6:30pm, he rolls into the office, he's like, what the fuck? We did not deliver on our deliverables.

[Joanna Robinson]

On the one hand, yes. And thank you for using this, the proper Silicon Valley language. On the other hand, tricked is such an interesting word.

[Rob Mahoney]

True.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. Like, you let me down. You lie. You know, like, you lied to me. Like, something like that. Like, you didn't follow through something, something. But, like, you tricked me speaks to, like, a level of deception, which is not really the case here. It's just a fail. A failure. Yeah, if you want to call it that. You know, so that's me. That's why I thought maybe he was talking about. And he calls her Heli.

[Rob Mahoney]

He does call her Heli, you know, but did he. But did he call his daughter Helena at one point Heli? Right. Like, maybe that's why she. This heli was heli in the first place.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. I do know.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought you could put yourself squarely in Jame Egan's mind and just channel and understand everything that that blood bag is going through.

[Joanna Robinson]

I haven't had my soil at this morning. It's very early, Rob. I don't know what to tell you. Okay. Anyway, anything else you want to say about Helly Helena? Like, how is she going to get out of this one sort of situation that we find her in?

[Rob Mahoney]

I echo her. What the fuck? On chain reaching the. The severed floor. Seeing him down there is a thrill, I think, because especially we are seeing so many of our. Of our core four splintering off in these different directions. Right. We don't know if Dylan will ever be back there. We don't know if Irving will ever be back there. You know, Mark is in the process of reintegrating and doing whatever it is that he's going to do. Having Heli as kind of the one person holding down the fort. You need something for her to bounce off of. And I think James showing up is a pretty interesting variable and a pretty interesting curveball on what otherwise is. Is quite a small cast of a show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Good luck to her.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. I'll also say about her conversation with Dylan where she is encouraging him to save the ring. You know, see who else you can meet down here in O and D with the goat people.

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe not the goat people. No dream bigger than the goat people.

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like you're being very judgmental. You know, I feel like there's at least a couple of those goat people who might be open to it, who.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hated the goat people.

[Rob Mahoney]

I hope we never go back to mammalians neutral.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But that's not to say Dylan couldn't go back there in his free time. And I support whatever decisions that that character wants to make. Uh, but it did feel like exactly the kind of thing where, like, she's. She's, like, giving advice to herself in a kind of way not to. Not to seek someone else out, but, like, she's telling him specifically, that woman is not your wife. And she almost could not be talking more directly to herself vis a vis Mark and Gemma. Right. This idea that, like, you are a different person. I need you to be a different person who is not that woman's husband.

[Joanna Robinson]

I feel like what we really should have seen in this episode. Episode is Dylan and Helly go prowling in O and D for new partners. You know what I mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

A little mixer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, little O and D mixer.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's. Let's put on those, like, the. The dance lights. Yeah, let's crank up the music.

[Joanna Robinson]

A lot of people in that department. So many.

[Rob Mahoney]

And you can make anything you need for a proper, like, date mixer setting.

[Joanna Robinson]

That sounds great. Now compare that to the, like, little shit tunnel that they had to crawl through to get to the goat people. And I think the. The choice is obvious, clearly. Okay. Harmon. Harmony. Devin. Mark.

[Rob Mahoney]

What are we doing here, Marks? What are we doing?

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's start. Let's start at a high. Let's start on a high.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

With the sarcasm tweet. Who do you think. Who do you think had the better zinger?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, these. These are. I already know where you're going. And these are both so good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Was it Devin saying, sorry, the wind was whistling over the hole in the back of your skull. So I didn't quite get that. Or was it Mark saying to Harmony, oh, my God. So good. My wife is being held at Lumen and I just had brain surgery in my basement. Who. Who is the better wielder of. Of the snark in this episode? Rob.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's gotta be Mark. Just because I can see Party Down Adam Scott coming out to play, and he's always welcome here.

[Joanna Robinson]

So good. 100% party down.

[Rob Mahoney]

Although honorable mentioned to Devin for the. Am I me or am I a copy machine? I also very much enjoyed that bit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Very good. Very good. Okay, so I. I'm very frustrated by this, but I'm hopeful for a payoff in the finale. But I do feel like quite sort of strung along by what happened inside of this episode with this trio or actually square of people. I did what? Something that I did. Like, I didn't like the. Like, let's hang out all day and not talk about anything like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

What are they doing for hours and hours and hours?

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe she brought some ether and they all, like, you know, give us some. Something, you know, hook.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hook us up, please.

[Joanna Robinson]

But when. When we are in. Mark, any Marks. Mark. S's perspective when he comes into the birthing cabin.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And he's like, what the fuck? And he tries to, like, walk out the door and Devin says if you walk out that door, he's just going to come right back in again. Okay. Of course. This is like a callback to Helly and Helena.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

In a way that could feel overly cutesy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

But to me, I really, really liked it because unlike. So the thing with Irving that pings for me slightly is like, it's Audi Irving saying something that builds upon something any Irving said.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I guess if in like a deeply romantic sense, you could say he just knows that he wasn't ready before and he's ready now or something like that. So let's put that to aside and I'll say here, Devin has no way of knowing that this is like something that they have said to Helly or Helena on the floor. She's not consciously referencing anything. But what they are doing in the pursuant of pursuance of their goal is like using the weapons, like, like the, the. The machinations of their enemy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

They are treating any Mark as like someone without autonomy in order to get what they need, which is to get to Gemma.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's true.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are they still heroes that I'm rooting for? Yes. But like, you know, will. What will they stop at to get to their goal? And when we've seen people treat Innies as like prisoners or people with no choice of what to do, those have been villains. So what are we to make when maybe our most beloved character, Devin, is the one doing it? You know what I mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think part of what makes that snag too, is, and this is a problem, I would say, with Mystery Box storytelling overall, where the show doesn't want to show its hand as to, for example, why do we need any Mark? Like, what information does he have that Cobell doesn't have that would be instrumental in finding Gemma? Like, she knows so much more than Mark does. She doesn't know what's been going on for like the past week at Lumen, but that's about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

She knows what Cold harbor is and Mark certainly doesn't.

[Rob Mahoney]

She has a lot more information.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't.

[Rob Mahoney]

So much more. And so as a result of that, like, normally in order to set the stakes of the show, you have to give us some indication of what it is that we actually need out of these interactions. And I don't think we have that. I think we just have characters saying, we have to do this, we have to do why we. Devin says in this episode, we have no choice but to do what Cobell says. I would argue of many, many, many other choices that you could make.

[Joanna Robinson]

The only. The only pushback I have on that is like the thing that Mark has that Harmony doesn't. And it's the reason why he's been able to get away with any Mark been able to get away with so much is like some ineffable understanding of the numbers that you need for surely Cold Harbor.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know what I mean? I don't know how you interrogate that in a. In a meaningful way, but that. Yeah, you're right. That like the. The woman who invented severance and has run the severed floor and knows the ins and outs of Lumen has much more intel. This is the one thing that any Mark has that she doesn't have. Though, again, I don't know if he knows even how to explain.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

What he's done with Cold Harbor. I thought we got some really interesting feedback from actually two mics, one who went by Mike and one who went by Michael. Mike wrote. And maybe they're any and Allie, who knows? But Mike wrote. I'm just as confused as I'm sure all the other viewers of what the is going on with this quote reintegration of Mark. Each episode since the long needle in the brain has given us hardly any Mark time. But when we do see him, we get no intro reintegration reveal outside of the one right before he passes out, which seemed like some sort of info dump overload. So, like, the idea of giving us. We were like, holy shit. They did reintegration for Mark at the beginning of the season.

[Rob Mahoney]

But like, they did not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Where are we now? You know, like this many episodes later.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Still sort of twiddling our thumbs waiting for this whole thing to come together. So. Which I am feel pretty confident it will in the finale in. In a way that will probably smooth over a lot of these, like, minor bumps and scrapes along the way. But it's just like in the current. And this is the only time this will be true because after that finale airs ever after, people can just like binge the season and will not feel this sort of like mid season antsiness. But as it stands right now, though, the cadence of the reintegration reveal is like pushing my patience slightly.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think I think that's entirely fair. I think they have stretched this stuff out to a degree where we've gotten a decent amount of Mark screen time, but not a lot of Mark propulsion or progress or even emotionally speaking. I'm not saying it has to be reintegration. I think episode seven is the high water mark for that. Not just for Gemma, but Also for Mark, in terms of getting his elements of the backstory that added to the character in a really significant way, it feels like there's so many balls in the air this season that a lot of the payoffs have nothing to do with what's happening this year. Right. Like, the berving stuff is a great example. The reason that Bervin kind of like farewell moment works to the extent that it does for anyone, and as you said, Joe, for you, it was a little bit more mixed. It all hinges on season one. It does not pay off. Everything that happened between Burt and Irving in season two was misdirection, was taking them down a side path, was setting up Bert as a potentially nefarious figure, which he kind of is, but ultimately did not really contribute to the plot or the emotionality of these characters in any meaningful way. And I think you could say the same thing about a lot of what's going on with Mark, where there's a lot of him tripping out post reintegration, him collapsing into the floor, him seeming to regain consciousness in a way where I just thought there would be a little bit more bleeding over at this point. But the very fact that we have to go to the birthing cabin to advance the plot tells us that this is not a reintegrated character. This is a guy with a hole in the back of his head that's oozing that for some reason, we throw in the back of a pickup truck. That's a bad choice for a guy with a hole in his head. Do not do that either.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, to recap, no moaning at the breakfast table. If you've got a hole in your head, you get to sit in the front of the car.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is that unreasonable?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's. Despite the cloak and dagger of. Of the sort of operations that they're in. Are you saying we. Okay. And I'm not opposed to it. Are you saying we should have slapped a wig on Mark and put the baby bump under his shirt?

[Rob Mahoney]

Of course.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, great. I would love to.

[Rob Mahoney]

Or get a different car. Do whatever you have to do. I just. I feel like putting him in a bumpy. Like, there was certainly.

[Joanna Robinson]

There was no room in the rabbit. I'll tell you that.

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

No room in the rabbit at all. Okay. Michael wrote, and this made me laugh. Maybe the cure Lumen is really working on is a way to make people not slow down to 110 speed every time they say the words Cold harbor.

[Rob Mahoney]

But how are you going to project how ominous it is if you don't say it? At that speed.

[Joanna Robinson]

Cold Harbor. Anything else? I think we've gone a little long and we've got plenty that we want to say for, like, our Q and A and stuff like that. Anything else you want to touch on in terms of this episode, ramahoney?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think just one thing as we. We're kind of closing the loop here from the secret Egans into Harmony, getting them into the birthing retreat, which is. We get an email a couple weeks ago from Elise, who talked about how every adult woman on the show so far has been in some way connected to the idea of birth or rebirth.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I think Elise brought it up in the context of the great pregnancy debates that we've been having all season about is Helena gonna be pregnant? Is like, what is the situation with Gemma and her ongoing fertility? Like, all this stuff has been in the air, but it's also in the air with Harmony too, who is not only the mother of Severance, as we found out, but if she does end up being Helena's mother or the mother of an Egan child of some kind who met some end. Yeah, I think that would make sense thematically with a lot of what we've been dealing with.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it's why more than ever, I don't want Helena slash Helen to be pregnant, because that's interesting. But I would like there to be some women, female characters on the show where that is not.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's an ambitious goal. Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, thanks. Thanks for rooting for me. Before we go, this listener asked to not be named, but I did. We got an email from a listener telling us to check out the track in the Bath by Lemon Jelly. Did you. Did you have a listen?

[Rob Mahoney]

I did have a listen to this.

[Joanna Robinson]

One minute into that track. It's a long track. It's six minute track, one minute in. If you. If you care to listen on Spotify, wherever you get your. Your music, you'll hear the Severance theme song. A very familiar progression of notes. And I haven't been able to find an interview where the composer, like, references this song. So I don't know. That's. It's.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's interesting, you know, Is it a direct inspiration? Is it the collective unconscious? Is it an Indian Audi and alternate lives in music?

[Joanna Robinson]

Lemon Jelly, actually the Audi of the innie, that is the composer.

[Rob Mahoney]

You never know.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Severance theme. Shout out to the Severance music. It's amazing. And like this. This idea consistently.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Lifting a little bit a few notes from something happens all the time.

[Rob Mahoney]

Obviously, one might call it art, you know, that's this was how this stuff is made a lot of the time.

[Joanna Robinson]

It is a wild moment. You're like in this vibey track and then all of a sudden you're like.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, what is this existential dread I feel?

[Joanna Robinson]

Why do I have a. Why do I have a compulsion to not eat any eggs in front of anyone ever again? All right, so pineapplebobby gmail.com yes, Ringer TV on YouTube is where you'll find us next week at noon for a live Q A. Prestige TV. Spotify.com is where you can also send questions, comments, concerns, theories, observations. We have a few like sort of bigger picture observations that are less in theory corner that I want to save for that. So I'm excited to get to that. We've had so many amazing emails from you guys this season. It's been really incredible.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wonderful.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you to the early morning crew on this, our last severance Friday morning record. So thanks to John Richter, to Justin Sales, to Johnny beach and fulfilling it for Kai. And thanks to Rob Mahoney.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you, Joe. Thank you to eggs. Thank you to Jame Egan.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, make sure to eat your yolks and we'll see you soon, y'all.