‘Skins’ Revisited

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘Skins’ Revisited (A Look Back at Skins UK – Pilot)

Hosts: Joanna Robinson & Rob Mahoney
Date: May 14, 2026

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Overview: Re-examining a Seminal Teen Drama

In this episode, Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney revisit the iconic British teen drama Skins UK, focusing primarily on its pilot episode, “Tony.” The discussion explores the show's original context, its legacy as a launching pad for future stars, and its influence on recent teen dramas like Euphoria. The hosts also reflect on the enduring appeal of teen dramas, their cultural impact, and the controversial aspects of their portrayals. This is not a full-series retrospective but rather a deep dive into what made the Skins pilot, and the surrounding show, so singular and influential.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Skins? Relevancy in Today’s TV Landscape (01:30–06:00)

• Skins UK is frequently compared to Euphoria for its raw portrayal of teenage rebellion and transgression.
• Joanna: “There’s been a lot of chatter recently where people have been saying, like, Skins UK was the original Euphoria.…the general cycle of teen showdom is that a new show comes along and people go, ‘gasp! Teens are doing this?? Is this okay?’ and then rinse and repeat over the generations.” (02:12)
• UK’s Skins was not just boundary-pushing for its content but also for serving as a springboard for major acting talents (Nicholas Hoult, Dev Patel, Daniel Kaluuya, Hannah Murray, Joe Dempsie).
• Skins’ approach—actual teens playing teens and writing in the rooms—was rare and revolutionary.

2. The Eternal Hook of Teen Dramas (05:30–10:00)

• The show rides the line between parental outrage and teenage thrill-seeking.
• Joanna recounts parental horror at the Euphoria premiere and how such shows generate controversy and interest in equal measure.
• “There’s this parents-don’t-want-you-watching-it, and so the kids, of course, even more so want to watch it.” (06:43)
• The “privileged peek” inside a world both glamorous and authentic.

3. Representation and Emotional Intensity (07:54–08:48)

• Rob: “Yes…the heightened style of Euphoria or sometimes of Skins…doesn’t map one-to-one on the teenage experience. But let’s not pretend this stuff isn’t happening…you feel things so intensely.” (08:06)
• The stories’ “melodrama” matches the emotional volatility of adolescence—problems feel life-or-death and are centered as the most important in the show’s world.

4. Stylistic Elements: Comedy, Structure, and Devices (10:26–14:28)

• Skins mixes comedy and drama, often via a distinctly British sense of humor.
• The pilot’s focus on Tony gives it a clear POV, echoed in later character-centric episodes.
• Skins resists typical teen show structure by marginalizing the school setting in the pilot; instead, socializing, party-planning, and interpersonal chaos take center stage.

5. Parent and Adult Absence—A Rite of Passage (14:28–16:26)

• Adults in Skins are inept, absent, or ridiculous—freeing teens to pursue havoc unchecked.
• Joanna: “Parents are idiots or neglectful. Teachers are idiots or inappropriate. There are no adults.” (15:06)
• Adult irrelevance becomes a foundational trope, facilitating plot freedom for young characters.

6. The Love Triangle (16:26–17:31)

• The pilot establishes Tony-Michelle-Sid (with Cassie as a 4th point), reflecting the timeless appeal and narrative usefulness of love triangles in teen TV.

7. Boundary Pushing and Shocks (17:34–19:27)

• Rob observes, “I will say the full frontal duvet cover…was like, okay, this feels…to Euphoria sensibilities.” (17:42)
• The set-up around Cassie’s drugged state and sexual agency is highlighted as something that may not fly in shows created today.

8. Handling Mental Health and Social Issues (19:11–20:24)

• Cassie’s eating disorder is introduced as an ongoing part of her character, not an “issue of the week.”
• Joanna: “That’s part of Skins—the joy…is how irreverent it is in terms of these very serious issues.” (19:34)
• Diversity of character backgrounds (racial, sexual, neurodivergent) is noted—Tony as pansexual, others from varied backgrounds.

9. Teen Authenticity—Casting and Writers Room (21:45–26:27)

• The cast were actual teens—not just actors, but also contributors in the writers’ room (e.g., Daniel Kaluuya).
• Rob: “Dev Patel…has an ‘I haven’t quite grown into my limbs’ kind of physicality that is so impossible for an adult actor to mimic.” (22:01)
• Skins’ unprecedented youth hiring and consultation made its slang, cadence, and worldview ring true.

10. MySpace Era and Pre-Release Hype (26:30–28:22)

• The show harnessed emerging social media (MySpace) to engage its audience before launch, building hype with competitions and interactive campaigns.

11. Critical Reception and Cult Ascendancy (28:34–29:38)

• Skins received mixed/negative reviews at launch and adult skepticism over acting quality but won over a large youth audience and grew into a cult classic.
• Joanna: “I think if I watched that first episode as an adult TV critic, I would be like, what is this? I’m not that interested… but it got a huge audience and…became…cult classic status.” (28:38)

12. A Unique Solution to the ‘Aging Out’ Problem (30:11–32:58)

• Skins innovated by cycling out its entire cast every two series (“generations”), rather than awkwardly following characters into adult years.
• Effie (Tony’s sister) anchors generation two, creating a lineage link.
• “The answer for Skins UK is: ‘We didn’t bother [with aging the cast up], we just brought in new kids.’ Which I really respect.” (32:58)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Punchline Teen Shock:

  • “It’s almost like being a teenager is about rebellion.” (Rob, 02:39)
  • “Here’s what the Parents Television Council said about Skins: ‘The most dangerous program that has ever been foisted on your children.’” (Joanna, 07:33)

• On Authenticity and Clumsiness:

  • “You can try to have the mannerisms of a teen, you can try to talk like a teen. You just can’t have that lack of coordination like a teen.” (Rob, 22:11)

• On UK TV Uniqueness:

  • “The restraint of television in the UK, we just simply…could not. We’re not capable of that.” (Rob, 30:44)

• On Cassie as a Hook:

  • “Hannah Murray as Cassie, I think, is the real hook for me for that show. Fascinating character…” (Joanna, 11:00)

• On Female Characters’ Difficulties:

  • “Especially the women who were on the show were like, this made me deeply uncomfortable to do, especially in retrospect.…You show up to set on day one, and they’re like, the first thing you’re shooting is a sex scene.” (Rob, 56:59)

• On Diversity and Authenticity in the Writers’ Room:

  • “Skins UK hired teens. Yes. You know, I have some questions about the labor laws about that, but you know…” (Joanna, 25:49)
  • “The average age in the writers’ room was 22 years old and they hired literal teenagers. Daniel Kaluuya …was on the writing team…” (Joanna, 24:14)

• On the Skins Alumni Rise:

  • “Landing Nicholas Hoult as one of the leads…The fact that you can get a lineup and pick out Nicholas Hoult at this point in his life is just tremendous fucking work.” (Rob, 38:31)
  • “I just want to underscore my Holt loyalty is such that when our pal and colleague Sean Fennessey was shit-talking Nick Holt, I made him the display photo for our group chat.” (Joanna, 39:34)

• On Critical and Parental Dismissal:

  • “They’re as irritating as real teenagers, I’ll give them that. So you and the Guardian TV room both hate teenagers is what we’re getting here.” (Joanna, 34:24)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:30] – Introduction to Skins, why the hosts chose the pilot, show’s legacy
• [05:12] – The iconic quote from the Guardian’s description of Skins
• [07:33] – Reciting outrage from the Parents Television Council
• [10:26] – First impressions of the pilot; comedy vs drama balance
• [12:14] – Rob on the high school setting, or lack thereof, as a structuring device
• [14:28] – Discussion of parents/adults in Skins and other teen dramas
• [16:26] – Love triangle (Tony-Michelle-Sid, with Cassie) trope analyzed
• [19:11] – Cassie's eating disorder and mental health issues as part of the show's fabric
• [21:45] – Authenticity in casting; who feels most like a real teen
• [24:14] – Writers’ room ages, Daniel Kaluuya’s involvement
• [26:30] – MySpace era marketing and Skins’ unique viewer engagement
• [28:34] – Critics initially panned Skins; it found a huge youth audience
• [30:11] – How Skins handled characters aging out: the “generations” solution
• [38:29] – “Murderer’s row” of future stars from the Skins casting approach
• [56:59] – Uncomfortable realities of teen actors and exploitation
• [60:22] – How Normal People contrasts with Skins on intimacy and actor care

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Noteworthy Comparisons & Insights

• To Euphoria:

  • Both shows provoke adult outrage and youthful fascination, but Skins is rougher, funnier, and often less stylized.
  • Skins’ cast and writers were much younger, making its authenticity more organic and, potentially, its risks higher.

• Cast as a Star Factory:

  • Nicholas Hoult, Dev Patel, Daniel Kaluuya, Jack O’Connell, Hannah Murray, Kaya Scoledario—all future headliners.
  • The open, audition-based casting process enabled an unusually diverse and raw-feeling ensemble.

• Cultural Specificity & Impact:

  • Skins’ specific grasp of mid-2000s tech/social life (e.g., MySpace, flip phones) makes it both dated and charming.
  • UK’s more relaxed broadcast rules around youth sexuality and language allowed for levels of realism and controversy that US teen dramas could not match.

• Handling of Serious Issues:

  • Skins’ irreverence sometimes borders on irresponsibility (e.g., casual approach to eating disorders, consent), but also reflects teen realism: “the jokes about it, instead of a PSA.”

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Final Thoughts & Thematic Wrap-up

• Skins’ Enduring Legacy

  • Continues to inspire new series with its authentic, anarchic depiction of modern youth
  • Its rotating cast generations innovated teen TV’s approach to handling the natural, inevitable aging of actors
  • The show is at once raw, flawed, and electric—a unique artifact of its cultural moment

• Reflecting on the Uncomfortable Parts

  • Both hosts acknowledge the harm and discomfort several actors reported
  • The lack of support or proper oversight for young actors is part and parcel of the show's controversy—and part of its “dangerous” reputation

• Interest in Revisiting

  • Both Joanna and Rob express a desire to watch more episodes, with particular enthusiasm for Cassie-centric episodes.

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Ending Acknowledgments & Banter

• Shout out to the Skins cast, the memorable “10 to 12 layered tank tops,” flip phones, MySpace, flatirons, and traumatized UK teens.
• Joanna: “Thank you to Dev, our very own Dev. Not Patel, it’s Dev Ronaldo. Summer, as far as I’m concerned, every summer. Get the shirts made.” (61:41)

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Essential Takeaways

• Skins UK’s pilot remains a milestone for teen TV: rough, brash, authentic, messy, and hugely influential.
• Its approach to casting and writing remains an industry rarity—even today.
• The legacy is bittersweet: the launch of great talents, but also stories of discomfort and mishandled youthful vulnerability.
• For contemporary viewers, it still holds up as a fascinating time capsule, a messy sort-of-miracle whose echoes are still felt in modern television.

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Next up: The hosts tease more Euphoria coverage, Widows Bay, and a Friday Night Lights retrospective.
Texas forever!

Transcript

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[Jonah Robinson]

Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV Podcast Feud. I'm Jonah Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[Jonah Robinson]

We're here with a very special episode of the Prestige Television podcast. We're doing a look back at a couple high school shows that we were thinking about in relation to our coverage of Euphoria season three. And today we're talking about Skins uk. Very important, crucially, Skins uk, we're not doing like a series overlook. We are not, I wish, completely mental and watch seven seasons of a television show for one episode of a podcast. But we're here mostly to talk about the pilot episode. So series one, episode one of of UK Skins, titled Tony, after Tony Stone, the titular role, the Skins himself, Nick Holmes, Mr.

[Rob Mahoney]

Skins, Mr.

[Jonah Robinson]

Skins, Nick Holt. And we're just going to talk about sort of the impact of the show at the time. It. There's been a lot of chatter recently where people have been saying, like, Skins UK was the original Euphoria. But I think you could make that argument on a lot of teen shows because the general cycle of teen showdom is that a new show comes along and people go, gasp. Teens are doing this. Is this okay? And then rinse and repeat over the generations.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's almost like being a teenager is about rebellion.

[Jonah Robinson]

What?

[Rob Mahoney]

Who knew?

[Jonah Robinson]

I mean, this goes back to like there was like Peyton Place back in like, you know, Splendor in the grass in the 60s. Like there. This has been a tale as his Time in terms of like, what are the teens up to? Skins UK was a show that I watched, not originally when it was airing, but a little bit later, I think as part of my like, Nick Holt completionist phase.

[Rob Mahoney]

But, but what was your entry point? What really grabbed you? By the Holt.

[Jonah Robinson]

By the Holt. Thanks so much. Like, into my hold fandom or like,

[Rob Mahoney]

what, what did you first see him and then you're like, oh, I want to, I want to see what that guy has been up to.

[Jonah Robinson]

Well, I, I saw About a Boy, his like, debut when he was a kiddo and I loved that. You know, I was a huge Nick Hornby fan. I love Hugh Grant. I love that movie.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's so good in it too.

[Jonah Robinson]

He is so good in it. And then I didn't see Skins, but then I saw A Single man, which came out after Skins and which. In which he plays like a young gay, pink mohair sweater wearing sex pot. And I was like, what happened to the boy From About a Boy? And I miss this sort of crucial bridging Skins phase. So I did eventually go back. I. I have to imagine the reason I went back to check in on Skins was because it is the origin story for Joe Dempsey and Hannah Murray, who are two big Game of Thrones actors. And so I was just sort of like. And then I realized Dev Patel was in it and Daniel Kalu, like, there's.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's crazy.

[Jonah Robinson]

So this is part of what we wanted to talk about is that teen shows as these breeding grounds for future stars and, and all the rest. This is your first foray. It is into Skins uk. How was your experience?

[Rob Mahoney]

I have awesome time. Yeah, I would love to watch more of this show. I mean, I knew it by reputation in exactly the way you described. I think the combination of, oh, this is a very like edgy teenage show, that reputation preceded it, but also the idea that it was this like talent scouting factory for basically a whole generation of British actors.

[Jonah Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so in both of those ways, it is extremely euphoria. But as you say, it's. That's kind of a generational transition point for a lot of these sorts of series.

[Jonah Robinson]

Some more than others. You know, when we, we thought initially about doing a month long series and we were going to do four different shows and, and we were trying to pick shows that had either future Oscar winners or Oscar nominees in them. So Dawson's Creek Y. Freaks and Geeks. Freaks and Geeks is definitely in the mix. And Normal People is something that we had talked about considering doing, but we landed on Skins. And then we're going to do Friday Night Lights, just because Skins is the most euphoria adjacent, I think. And then Friday Night Lights is just so us core ringer course, you know, at the end of the day, it's

[Rob Mahoney]

also Friday Night Lights. Not to step on that pot too much, but almost like a failed attempt at this sort of ensemble launch pad. Like, there's people in Friday Night Lights who really pop a couple singular stars, but they're not necessarily who you'd expect. And there isn't like the broad success I think of in this case, like some of the generations of Skins.

[Jonah Robinson]

So stay tuned, Taylor Kitsch. We're gonna talk about your career eventually. So this is a Description of Skins UK from a 2011 Guardian article about sort of one of the later seasons coming back. Wild house parties, vats of booze, drugs and angst, and a never ending quest for sex. Escapades that left some parents predictably outraged and their kids equally predictably thrilled. So I kind of wanted to talk to you about sort of why teen dramas, or in the case of Skins, like a dramedy, are eternally sort of hooky for audiences. I think titillation is a huge part of it. Right. Um, and then alongside that titillation, there's the, the gas fear controversy that comes. I, I, I don't remember if I talked about this on the pod, but I was at the Euphoria premiere premiere, which was at the Austin Television Festival years ago. They debuted it there. It was the opening night show. Zendaya was there and a couple other cast members. And the Q and A session afterwards was just parents walking up to the mic and going, dear God, what is this thing? You know, do you expect my child to watch this? And then there were actually a couple quite young people in the audience because they were Zendaya fans.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jonah Robinson]

And so like a kid walked up to the microphone. Zendaya was so mortified that one of her kid fans was there. And then she was like, who's your parent? Why did your parent let you be here? So, you know, there's this, there's this parents don't want you watching it. And so the kids, of course, even more so want to watch it. And my first experience with that was, I remember in fifth grade I transferred to a new school and I was, you know, didn't know anyone and I was meeting people and this one girl was trying to sort of like connect with me and she was like, do you watch 920? And I was like, 920? We're in fifth grade. No. And she was like, okay, lame. And then I knew that I had to watch 921oh. In order to, like, be able to talk to people, even though I was in fifth grade at the time. But so you get this. This titillation, this privileged peek inside a world of. Of teenagers that, you know, especially if the show has any kind of reputation for getting it right, which Skins UK definitely did. And we'll talk about why. Um, here's what the Parents Television Council said about Skins. Quote, the most dangerous program. And that's program with two M's and an E at the end, because we're in the trail. The most dangerous program that has ever been foisted on your children.

[Rob Mahoney]

Foisted? Who was. Who was foisted? What was foisted?

[Jonah Robinson]

How old you were a teen in 2007?

[Rob Mahoney]

I was.

[Jonah Robinson]

Do you. Did you feel represented by the depiction of teenagers in this show?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, this is in my lifestyle, per se. Okay, but it is a lifestyle.

[Jonah Robinson]

Yeah, but did you recognize people you went to school with?

[Rob Mahoney]

Completely. I think this is the thing, like, if you want to be real about it. Yes. The. The heightened style of euphoria or sometimes of Skins or Friday Night Lights, like, doesn't map one to one on the teenage experience. But it's like, let's not pretend this stuff isn't happening. And it's one thing to portray things accurately and then to stylize them and then to accentuate them, but I think part of the reason those teen dramas work is the same reason, like, young adult fiction works is like, this is a period of life in which you feel things so intensely.

[Jonah Robinson]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

And to such dramatic extremes. It's like, what if every character on the show was operating on those, like, complete peaks and valleys all the time, emotionally, while doing the titillating things that are going to draw viewers in. It's like, that's just a good formula for melodrama.

[Jonah Robinson]

Yeah, yeah. And I think for teens, in terms of that sort of, you're feeling everything. Everything feels enormous to you. That's why Aya stories that are set in a supernatural world where, like, the puberty feelings that are. Your feelings sometimes are life and death. That's why Buffy the Vampire Slayer works so well, or, you know, the Hunger Games, et cetera, et cetera. But then in a teen drama, your problems are taken seriously. Your problems are the most important problems of this show, of this world. And we'll talk about the parents and how they're depicted on these shows, but I Think that's interesting. So, yeah, conversation starters about, like, are the kids all right? The kids actually doing this? I think especially it's really interesting going back and reading about the debut of Friday night lights in 2006 and the debut of skins in 2007. The word MySpace is thrown around a lot as this sort of, like, burgeoning era of social media. And now with social media, of course, we have much more access to, like, what the teens are, quote, unquote, actually doing. But for a while, it was up to these often wildly inaccurate, but sometimes accurate peaks inside of mainstream media of sort of, like, this is what your kids are up to. Just FYI. This is what they do. And again, there's the horror for the adults, the celebration from the kids, and then when they get it wildly wrong, like Dawson's Creek does, there's just sort of. I love Dawson's Creek, but, like, which gets mentioned in this Skins pilot. But, like, the whole point of Assassin's Creek was like, no kid actually talks like that. So at the end of the day. All right, what was your first impression of this episode? How did. How did it work for you?

[Rob Mahoney]

Really enjoyed it. I mean, it's just a straight, like, sex comedy setup. Yeah, it was, I think, more outright a comedy than I was expecting it to be. And I think you're right to point out that it's not just drama. Like, it is a dramedy through and through. There are serious moments, but everything is undercut. It's impossible to extricate, like, British sense of humor from a show like this and an episode like this. So I really loved it. And you can already see, too, in a euphoria sense, the, like, character centric episode. Like, we're going to. We're going to take you through the point of view of Tony and, yeah, we're going to transition and hand off and you're going to see plenty of other characters. But it was very familiar in that way, too.

[Jonah Robinson]

Right. This is the Tony episode. I. So rewatching the pilot, I was. I was thinking about you a lot because I was like, okay, Rob is watching this for the first time. Is he going to be like, why did you pick this show? Or why do people like this? I wasn't sure. Yeah. How it would land with you in. In 2026, nearly 20 years later. But then I watched the second episode. We're not gonna talk about in detail, but the second episode is the Cassie episode. And Hannah Murray as Cassie, I think is the real hook for me for that show. Fascinating character as much as I'm like a Hold Ted, like, Cassie kind of is that show for me, especially like in the first two series, which is that generation. And so her episode, which is a bit more surreal and all these. I was like, that's what really got me in because I think my recollection is I watched that first episode and I was like, this is fascinating just to see how young these future stars are and all these other things. But the Cassie episode is really what hooked me in. So these episodes are on Hulu, so you can just watch it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very funny to watch this on Disney, by the way.

[Jonah Robinson]

There you go. Or on Disney. At the end of the day, is there like a team pilot formula that you're identifying across some of these shows?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think there's a couple of different formulas that these shows draw on, usually, often. And I think this is one area where Skins deviates is my experience with these shows is like the school is a foundational structural device. And we're barely in school for this first episode. I imagine that that changes. Right. They probably spend more time in school at various points in the season or the show.

[Jonah Robinson]

I would say on and off. It sort of depends. And I think one of the hooks of. I think the description, one of the descriptions I read was sort of like, you know, they booze, they do drugs, blah, blah, and then they get up for their A levels. And sort of like the whole thing about Tony in this episode and as you'll discover, some of his other friends is like, they're actually good students.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jonah Robinson]

This is very like Cruel Intentions. Right. So it's sort of like, these aren't the privileged upper class students. We meet some of those students inside of this first class.

[Rob Mahoney]

Don't you dare track mud on that pile of carpet.

[Jonah Robinson]

Bring your friends. Like, that's not who we're talking about. But that combination of you don't have to be. Just because you do drugs and alcohol and care about sex doesn't mean you're a burnout necessarily. And so that combination, I think, feels a little extra special and titillating.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very much so. And I think, how do you introduce that sort of cast of characters and both their potential and also the behavior that they get up to without having that school setting. And this is where like, this is a very of its time, sort of. I'm going to call around to all of my friends to round them up for this party.

[Jonah Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I love that device and it honestly, like, it feels dated in a sort of flip phone way, but not in the rallying the troops way.

[Jonah Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so I think that part feels very teen drama to me, but without the school. Like, being in a school gives you a great place, like, quickly establish a main character, give you, like, the cliques and the hierarchy and that sense of, like, place and understanding of how everything fits together. It also lets you introduce potential foils and in a way that doesn't feel too contrived. Right. Like, there's rivals, there's bullies, there's jocks, there's whatever. The closest we get to that is like, Tony's run in with this, like, pompous French teacher at the school he doesn't even go to.

[Jonah Robinson]

Right, right, right.

[Rob Mahoney]

So it's like that's kind of the closest we get to it. Because otherwise it is just like a one crazy night, literally bookended by Tony's neighbor changing in her mirror or in her window, like before and after the next day.

[Jonah Robinson]

That's a real through line euphoria doesn't really have it. Um, but that's a real through line of teen dramas of a certain era, which is just sort of like, what adult is having an inappropriate social sexual relationship with a child? Or at least like undressing for them at the end of the day or at the beginning of the day? I think that's really an interesting part of all of this. Um, I think when we think about the way in which the parents are depicted in these various shows, I think it's really telling. We'll talk about sort of the adults at the center of front end lights. Cause it's a very different construction. But. But here parents are idiots or neglectful. Teachers are idiots or inappropriate. There are no adults. There is an adult who shows up in the Cassie episode that is, like, kind and thoughtful and all this sort of stuff like that. But. But in terms of, like, the parents are most often defined by their absence and what the kids can do while they're gone. So there are no anchors or guiding lights. And that's an interesting thing when you think about a teen drama. Because oftentimes in these teen shows, you do introduce the parents. In the first season, you. You meet a lot of the parents and then often they sort of fade into the background. Like the. The key example is 90210, where Jim and Cindy Walsh, who are Brandon and Brenda's parents, like, move to Japan in a later season. But everyone lives in their house. Everyone just moves. And the same thing happens in Buffy. Everyone just like, moves into the summer's house. Like, just what happens. House is an important setting but the parents.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, the set's already built.

[Jonah Robinson]

Increasingly irrelevant as we go on. And Skins is like, what if they're irrelevant from the beginning? Really? They're just buffoons, you know?

[Rob Mahoney]

But this is a rite of passage for a teen show. Right. It's almost like in a horror movie. You have to have the moment where it's like, oh, we don't have cell reception to justify the plot. Like, you have to show the parents are asleep at the wheel in order to say, where are the consequences? Where is the oversight? Why are these kids allowed to, like, run around all night and steal a car and drive it into a river? It's because no one is really paying attention to them, at least with any actual detail.

[Jonah Robinson]

As you pointed out, this is essentially a sex comedy plot. But what we do get here in this first episode and does seem very key to these teen stories is a love triangle.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Jonah Robinson]

Right. So we've got Michelle and Tony and Sid and Cassie. If you want to make it a. A, A rectangle of some kind, a rhombus. How. How important do love triangles feel to Team Dravo?

[Rob Mahoney]

Why.

[Jonah Robinson]

Why do you think this is here?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, they have to be there. Yeah, it's. I think it's just like a natur. Such an easy narrative device. I think something we see here is it's a great one to introduce. And then back burner. Right. It's a thing that can be a running subplot through the episodes, but doesn't have to drive the story all the time. And so, I mean, who hasn't been at some point involved in a triangle of a kind? It's such a relatable experience when you

[Jonah Robinson]

perhaps have been involved in a love triangle of some kind.

[Rob Mahoney]

Allegedly.

[Jonah Robinson]

Allegedly. Did you take upwards of 50 photos of one girl and just scroll through them on your flip phone, including, like,

[Rob Mahoney]

no, not even head. Just. Just body shots. And then scroll through on a bus

[Jonah Robinson]

while a man breathes over your shoulder and also looks at them.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's just normal behavior.

[Jonah Robinson]

Great stuff, at least in the uk. Did anything surprise you about this episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

I wasn't really too surprised. I think even knowing it's a provocative show, I will say the full frontal duvet cover.

[Jonah Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Was like, okay, this feels, again, to bring back the euphoria element. It's not to Euphoria's tastes, but it is to Euphoria sensibilities to do something like that. And so just kind of getting that, like, very stark visual out of the gate was a little surprising. But then once you settle in it is kind of just a mid to late 2000s sort of sex comedy plot, one that probably would not be written even in this way today. Like, euphoria crosses a lot of lines and walks a lot of lines, but the, like, we need to get this girl stoned out of her mind so that she'll have sex with you. I just don't know that that's being

[Jonah Robinson]

written today, which is such a weird part because Cassie shows up and she's just playing game from the jump.

[Rob Mahoney]

She wants to organize jars and have sex, if that's what you're up for.

[Jonah Robinson]

Absolutely. This is how her various ocds manifest themselves.

[Rob Mahoney]

I will say the one other thing that surprised me almost from a content perspective, and this is where I'd be curious to keep watching and see Cassie's episode in particular, the way that her eating disorder is introduced and talked about. I did find, I want to say pleasantly surprise, surprising based on this episode alone. I have no context for where it goes or what happens or how it's handled, but it's like, it's so casual and almost thrown away that it's jarring. It's like, I think so many of these teen shows fall into. We have to have very serious conversations about these sorts of things as they come up. And this is like a character beat that we're navigating over the course of the episode. But the show never bogs down to have the serious talk about it.

[Jonah Robinson]

Cassie's eating disorder, I think, is the most defining characteristic of her, of her experience through the show. And she's sort of in and out of tree. I think you would find it less of, like, a footnote of part of her character, more of an anchor.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's not even that it's a footnote. It's just more like they introduce it without belaboring the point and almost, like, treat it as a bit. You know, it's like, oh, yeah, they

[Jonah Robinson]

make jokes about it throughout. And that's part of Skins. The joy of Skins is how, like, irreverent it is in terms of these very serious issues. And to your point, there are other teen shows where if someone has an eating disorder, that is, like, the serious issue of the week. And in this case, it's something that Cassie is going to struggle with her entire run on the show, along with other mental health concerns. But the fact that you've got someone here who has mental health issues that she's struggling with, you've got teens from all different, like, cultural backgrounds. You've got a queer teen You've got Tony. It does. It's not dealt with in the pilot here, but Tony is. The term they used at the time was polysexual, which is not really a term we, we really use anymore, but essentially he's pansexual.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jonah Robinson]

And so like that, you know, this, this attractive, manipulative, a smart teenager who will sleep with anyone because sex is like power and that's of interest to him is a new character inside of the teen drama or comedy world. And like an odd character to anchor your POV in your first episode. And even at the center of a tone like this, which is a sex comedy, to have a Toni Stoneham at the center of it is interesting, I think.

[Rob Mahoney]

See, you say it's a new character and I agree broadly. But there are hints of that, like Ryan Felipe and Cruel Intentions sort of thing here.

[Jonah Robinson]

It's definitely Ryan Felipe and Cruel Intentions, but it's, but Cruel Intentions is like, it's different in a movie versus a TV show. I feel like, you know, and, and, and, and also like Reese Witherspoon's character is sort of supposed to be your POV inside of Cruel Intentions to a certain degree, but on the, on the most convincing, least convincing. So this will come more into play with Friday Night Lights because there are some real 20 somethings in that show. And this was sort of a running joke through 90210 into Dawson's Creek, et cetera, et cetera. Of like, who are these 20 something, sometimes 30 somethings playing teenagers? Um, in Skins UK, it's teenagers.

[Rob Mahoney]

Literal teenagers.

[Jonah Robinson]

Not just teenagers in the cast, but teenagers in the writing room. And we'll talk about that in a little bit. We're not here to call out anyone for being too old for the role necessarily. But who feels like most identifiably like an actual teenager to you in this pilot episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like it's gotta be Dev Patel.

[Jonah Robinson]

Okay, tell me.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just think he has like, I haven't quite grown into my limbs kind of physicality that is so impossible for like an adult actor to mimic in any way.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

There's just.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's one of those things. You can try to have the mannerisms of a teen, you can try to talk like a teen. You just can't have that lack of coordination like a teen. Yeah, and Dev Patel is really embodying that for me in this episode.

[Jonah Robinson]

And how much of that is informed by you knowing what a stone cold fox Dev Patel turns into?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, we've seen the before and after of all These people really?

[Jonah Robinson]

Absolutely, absolutely. I think to a certain degree. And this, this is a common. Like I was, I was sort of thinking across many teen shows and I kind of came up with the same archetype and I think it's just because those are the kinds of guys that I was friends with in high school. But your Sids, like Mike Bailey, who I think was 18 but Sid, the sort of like nerdy friend that, that rings really true to me, to my like experience growing up.

[Rob Mahoney]

So yeah, I also think like the fact that they are teenagers I would have to think is a huge part of the pearl clutching experience of this show because it's such a different thing when you are seeing 20 something actors and this is a reason why they're often cast in those roles. I think there's two considerations. One, productions of TV shows and even movies can be so long. You don't want to risk somebody has like a huge growth spurt or changes dramatically physically over the course of your show or movie. But also just when you show people, actual teenagers doing very sexual things in particular, some people just lose their minds. And I'm not even saying they're wrong. Particularly when you put yourself in the position of like, oh, an adult wrote a thing for this 15 year old girl to do on screen and now she's like nude. It gets, it gets weird very quickly.

[Jonah Robinson]

So let's talk about the writer's room. So this is some of the ways in which we bump up against poor phrasing euphoria is that like Sam Levinson, an adult man is, you know, writing all the episodes and using his own life experience inside of addiction, but just sort of writing for all of these teenagers, especially these young women and in these, you know, if you watch this latest episode of Euphoria, like incredibly sexual content for Skins, which was created by a father son team which I think is quite interesting.

[Rob Mahoney]

A family affair.

[Jonah Robinson]

The average age in the writers room was 22 years old and they hired literal teenagers. Daniel Kaluuya, who shows up as a character. Posh Kenneth was on the writing team. He wrote, he was sort of like a teen consultant in the first season and then wrote two of the episodes in the second season series if you prefer. This is an interview from him in 2008. Quote, I'd always been on the writing team from series one, but on series one I was a contributor which was when they bring young people in and they give their opinion on the scripts and what rang true and what didn't. I co wrote an unseen like an episode that didn't make it to air for series one. And when series two came along, they offered me a chance to write an episode and he actually wrote two. And he's never a main character on the show, but he's very funny. You don't see him in the pilot, but he is like a very funny, great presence on the show. Future Oscar winner Daniel Kaluuya. But it's very rare, obviously, and I don't think it's been quite repeated in the same way for you to not only hire young writers but to bring in teenage consultants. I remember Winnie Holtzman, the creator of My so Called Life, which was also very well regarded for capturing the way that teens actually talked at the time, etc. She just went around and talked to teens and wrote down how they spoke and what they said and what their concerns were. She checked in with her teen cast and she would take stories from their lives and put into the script and stuff like that. But. But everyone was always so dazzled by the, how did you do this? How did you capture the way that teens talk? So she's like, well, I talk to teens. And again, what a novel idea. Skins UK hired teens. Yes. You know, I have some questions about the labor laws about that, but you know, I guess we're 18. That works.

[Rob Mahoney]

Many, many questions about the laws and practices in the making of this show.

[Jonah Robinson]

Yeah, yeah. What do you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

I do think there's one of these things though, where the idea of making your character sound like teens in theory is great. And you want that authenticity and you want that sense that like this feels real. The problem is, and I say this not to alienate any of our non existent teen listeners because let's be real about it, they're not listening to this podcast. You don't really want to listen to teenagers talk for 10 hours as much as you think you do. And so it's like it's. It needs to be sculpted and shaped and stylized and narrativized in a way, but without losing the heart of what makes it feel authentic.

[Jonah Robinson]

Be for yourself, Rob.

[Rob Mahoney]

I promise you, you do not.

[Jonah Robinson]

What's interesting about the teen hookiness of it all is I was reading some articles from UK publications at the time about how Skins was received when it first aired. And not just that sort of pearl clutching Parents Council quote that I read, but how they had captured their audience before they even premiered. And what they did is they utilized MySpace in a significant way, you know, in the same way that, you know, publishers are hoping Booktok will, you know, get you interested in their book before it comes out. Tales old as time. But MySpace being such a new way to connect directly to your demograph your specific demographic and going for. Right, and so this is a quote from a Guardian article, a Guardian article that's called Are youe Gonna Roll up for Skins? Cause Skins is a UK slang for rolling papers.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right?

[Jonah Robinson]

So that's the name of the show is like. Is a. Is a drug associated.

[Rob Mahoney]

Did you, did you point at the screen when we got the title drop in this episode?

[Jonah Robinson]

I heard Ron Howard say, hey, that's the name of the show. But this is what the Guardian article written in 2007 says. The first episode is yet to be air, but Channel 4 has already bombarded us with racy trailers of attractive, attractive adolescents copping off and puking up. I'm hooked and desperate to know if Skins will finally fill the eternal void in television schedules for a realistic representation of teenage life. And then a MySpace page for the show has generated huge hype online, which is essential if you're going to attract and keep today's tech savvy teens. Clever competitions have also done their bit for marketing machine, offering you, the viewer, the chance to get a song in a scene, style the cast and design the logo. So they did a real like for us bias sort of teen experience here. You get drugs in the first episode. Naked adult neighbors. We're hitting on teachers, you know, we're

[Rob Mahoney]

trying to lose our virginity.

[Jonah Robinson]

We're doing our best. I mean, and it worked. It was, it does work. It had a. It got terrible reviews. Euphoria is like, same.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, terrible reviews. On the merits or on like the content pearl clutching?

[Jonah Robinson]

On the merits, yeah. And the merits. And I like watching it. I think if I watched that first episode as an adult TV critic, I would be like, what, what is this? I'm not that interested, you know, like, I don't think the acting is tremendous in the first episode. You know, there's just a lot, you know, like I could see. Hopefully I wouldn't do this, but I could see myself as like, if I'm like, I write for the Guardian and I don't think this is up to snuff. Like I could see that, but it was, you know, it got a huge audience and it has only grown in estimation and become sort of this cult classic status, you know, as opposed. When we'll talk about Friday Night Lights. Friday Night Lights was a critical darling from the jump, but not necessarily hit with teenagers, I would say.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, speak for yourself.

[Jonah Robinson]

I mean, the Rob Mahoney's of the World were tuning in. But maybe not.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe not.

[Jonah Robinson]

We don't like other teens. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you so much.

[Jonah Robinson]

You know, so I would like to

[Rob Mahoney]

think, and I would say my overall impression of this episode is like, there's something cooking here. This is not a finished formula. You're right about the acting. Like, there's some really spotty moments.

[Jonah Robinson]

It's wild because Nick Holt is so good and I'm like, this is maybe his worst acting ever. He's still so fun to watch. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And, like, the charisma of it. You buy, like, you buy that this guy could walk into a room and reel off some show tunes and, like, all of the girls are trying to get him to go to the party.

[Jonah Robinson]

100%.

[Rob Mahoney]

That part is very believable. But, yeah, he's. He is reaching and grasping for control of this character, and he doesn't have it yet. But I think that's what makes some of these teen shows so appealing. It's like it's not just the young characters, it's young performers. And you're seeing them reckon with their own power.

[Jonah Robinson]

Yeah. And especially in retrospect, when you see what they've later become, you're just sort of like, this is so fun to watch them take their first sort of shaky steps. One question you had for me, especially because you've only watched the first episode of Skins, is as we're grappling with Euphoria, season three, the post high school years of this show. How do these teen shows handle their cast? Growing older? And Friday Night Lights did a similar version of this. But what Skins UK did, which was felt revolutionary at the time, is they cycled the cast out every two years.

[Rob Mahoney]

So again, the. The restraint of television in the uk, we just simply could not. We're not capable of that.

[Jonah Robinson]

You meet in the first episode, and this is part of. I think part of the extreme deletion of the first episode is like, Tony's getting up to antics. His younger sister is getting up to something even more. Yeah, she's been out all night. All of her makeup is smudged off. They have a routine of getting her back into the house.

[Rob Mahoney]

That was incredible. Big brothering.

[Jonah Robinson]

It really was. He's 16, she's like 14, so that's okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe terrible Big brother. It depends on your perspective.

[Jonah Robinson]

Our, you know, loyal big brothering. Right. For sure. Real, real. Like Ferris Bueller energy going on here. But so Effie Stoneham, his sister is sort of the anchor of the second generation. So you've Got Toni Stoneham and his friends the first two seasons. Effie and her friends are the second generation. And then they did a third generation. And in the second generation, like Kaia Scotolero as Effie Stoneham is, you know, Kai has gone on to do other things. Jack o' Connell is in the second generation.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wild.

[Jonah Robinson]

You've got some like great, great people who popped in the second generation. Third generation didn't really hit as much. And so the final, like seventh series of Skins is a series of specials checking in with Cassie, Effie and Jack o' Connell's character Cook. So like two parters dedicated to those characters to sort of like, how are they doing in adult life? And I think if those sort of like, how is Cassie doing in her 20s? How is Effie doing in her 20s? If those had hit better than they did, Skins might have, you know, braced into a different or something like that. There was an idea of maybe doing a Skins movie, but instead they did this sort of like wrap up season. But that's as close as they get to sort of Euphoria series. Season three is this like season seven. Let's check in with some popular characters and see how they're doing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also not dissimilar to the Euphoria specials too.

[Jonah Robinson]

Right, Right, exactly. And so again, Friday Night Lights did something similar where they're trying to like cycle in new teens as we get older. But this is the question that plagues all teen dramas is like, how do you keep that crucial framework of high school? And you know, the answer for Skins UK is we didn't bother and we just brought in new kids, new crops,

[Rob Mahoney]

which I really respect.

[Jonah Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And it does take a lot of scouting and understanding of like, how do you repopulate this cast and rewriting interesting characters. You understand fully why shows don't do this because it's really hard and it takes a lot of work. But when you can pull it off and it seems like at least for one turnover, Skins really did. Yeah, I mean that's, that's something you just have to admire if you are

[Jonah Robinson]

a sort of Generation 3 third generation skins lover and you're offended. Prestige [e-mail] you can let me know. I am. I mean, obviously I didn't watch this as it was airing. I'm not in the uk, so there are very ways, there are many ways in which I am not spiritually, you are mentally, emotionally. But there are many ways in which I am like, you know, and I'm the wrong generation, like not the authority on The Skins fandom. So I'm not pretending to be, but from afar. This is sort of my understanding of what happened. Can I read a couple quotes from

[Rob Mahoney]

reviews of I think we need them after hearing the Parents Council, I need more of it.

[Jonah Robinson]

This is from the Guardian and this is just a review of the first couple episodes of the first season. If this is designed to emphasize how truly realistic Tony et al are, the effect has been slightly muted by the decision to cast as the college lot and their sixth form. They're 16 through 18 year olds, actors who could give Prince William elocution lessons. They're as irritating as real teenagers, I'll give them that. So you and the Guardian TV room both hate teenagers is what we're getting here.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think I am an age where I'm supposed to hate teenagers.

[Jonah Robinson]

Fair enough.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's weird if you don't, you know.

[Jonah Robinson]

And then this is what the Times wrote. The script was good at capturing that mix of wanton self absorption and vulnerability that makes parents want to wring their kids necks and hug them at the same time. The series primary aim is to entertain rather than raise issues with a helpline number at the end. Unlike Euphoria, more importantly, it shows heart rather than a blank in whatever cynicism that makes it worth watching for the Space Invaders generation as well as the MySpacers. So that's sort of the check in. And I mean, what is so revolution about revolutionary about Skins is what was going on in uk, UK television at the time because teen dramas were much more of an American thing than they were a UK TV thing. And UK TV was, you know, far fewer options for what you're watching. There are far fewer channels. A lot of them are, you know, BBC channels, et cetera, et cetera, were firmly in the grip of reality, of the reality television explosion. And Shameless was a show that existed. But by and large the depictions of teens were much like far stodgier than this. And this felt realistic, even though watching it now you're sort of like, this doesn't feel like a docudrama or anything like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not exactly. It's put on, but it's put on in a way where, yeah, there's a germ of truth and then we're going to create a TV show around it.

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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[Jonah Robinson]

You want to talk about the cast and we've already talked about them a bit. If you want to go through the murderous row of talent here.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's frankly unbelievable.

[Jonah Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, for one, just like landing Nicholas Hoult as one of the leads of your show from a broadcasting search and it seems like this was like basically an open casting call that they just rolled teenage actors through and tried to pick out the best of the litter. The fact that you can get a lineup and pick out Nicholas Hoult at this point in his life is just tremendous fucking work.

[Jonah Robinson]

You're a Holt head too? Of course. What's your. The height of your Hulk fandom?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm trying to think.

[Jonah Robinson]

I mean, you're a real beast in the X Men movies.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not a beast, nor am I. That era of X Men. I think the Great might be like the peak of his powers so far. He channels a very specific kind of very irritating quality that all of the best Nicholas Holt performances have. And I love the fury roads and I even love warm bodies. I think he can play sensitive very well, but he can also play like, full of himself in a way that Tony has. And I think a lot of his characters do. And he just like, like in Nosferatu just like hits that register, you know, like he understands how to get there, stay there, be freaked out and manic enough, but also like incredibly grading in a pleasant way.

[Jonah Robinson]

I just want to underscore my Holt loyalty is such that when our pal and colleague Sean Fennesee was shit talking Nick Holt, I made him the display photo for our group chat that talks about movies. And he's still there. No one has taken him down. He's. Nick Holt is still as Lex Luthor.

[Rob Mahoney]

Was he being shit talked? I feel like not to, you know, defend Sean too much, but I feel like it was just a mutual understanding that, like, this guy's playing a lot of cucks right now, you know, these are the roles that he has chosen.

[Jonah Robinson]

Don't betray me on this podcast by defending Sean Fennes. I'm sorry, take about Nick Holtz. Is Tony Stoneham? Well, anyway, not yet to find out.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe by the end he will be. But yeah, I think like, the benefits of doing this sort of casting call are just like so apparent. Having like a diverse cast that doesn't feel like a college brochure that's been like planned for diversity.

[Jonah Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

You just, I mean, if you, if you want to cast your teen show with a jock out of central casting, you're going to get jock out of central casting energy when it's time to actually say the lines. And these do feel like real kids performing, but like the, the real kid part of it you kind of can't take out of them. Yeah.

[Jonah Robinson]

I mean, I think you're right to single out Dev Patel and his, like, extreme gangliness inside of these early. These first two seasons.

[Rob Mahoney]

I want more of him in this episode, but him trying to have a big gay night out and then it blowing up in his face is all that's honestly a great place to start.

[Jonah Robinson]

I also love. I also think Joe Dempsey's really, really good as Chris. I'm a big fan of Joe Dempsey on the show, but Hannah Murray is really the standout for me. And, like, she hasn't obviously had as big a career as Dev or Daniel or Nick.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Jonah Robinson]

But Cassie is just such an indelible teenage character to me, and I just think she has something so special inside of. There is this sort of like, manic pixie dream girl, you know, energy to her, but something just.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a little different.

[Jonah Robinson]

It's daffier than that. And it's just. Just, like, really watchable. I think she's so incredible. And I'm with you. I really. I mean, she's written a lot about her. I think she recently published a memoir where she's talked about some of her own, like, mental health struggles and stuff like that and how that's impacted her acting life. And so I'm not. I'm not surprised that she hasn't had a bigger career given the aspects of her personal life that she has. Has shared very publicly. But I wish for her to have more because it's sort of a thankless role on Thrones, and it doesn't really highlight, with love and respect to Gilly, doesn't really highlight what she's capable of here.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would say even in Game of Thrones, some of that is there. There's like. There is a warmth and a generosity of performance, not just like the character that I'm like. That's just a person I want to see in a lot of different contexts bouncing off of all sorts of different actors. And I mean, that usually is the answer right. When you're looking at a clear talent where their career hasn't quite gone the way you'd expect. It's like they've got stuff going on in their lives. They've got a lot to navigate in addition to all the professional, like, trials and tribulations that everyone else does. I would have liked a different life for her in terms of her acting career with Joe Dempsey. It did occur to me. Skins, Game of Thrones, Doctor who. Is that the Brit Triple Crown?

[Jonah Robinson]

That is a Brit triple crown. I think there are a couple other. Like eastenders is like a thing you can do. I don't know. There's some other options.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't mean in terms of glamour. I just mean in terms of like, it's hitting very soon. Fair.

[Jonah Robinson]

I think you show up on Taskmaster. That's a thing that we care a lot about. Right. Has he done a literary adaptation? Like an Austin or a Dickens? Something you can do.

[Rob Mahoney]

Call you when he's done a costume drama is what you're saying.

[Jonah Robinson]

I mean, what is Thrones if not a costume drama? To a certain degree. But yeah, call me when you put on a cravat. Joe Dempsey question we were asking because Daniel Kaluuya is again, a fairly minor character inside of these seasons. Really fun, but fairly minor. But is the Oscar winner out of this cast?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Jonah Robinson]

And so a question you were asking me, actually, as it pertains to Friday Night Lights, but we'll talk about that cast. But you were like, who is the Jesse Plemons? Who is the minor person in this cast in Euphoria, who is going to pop years down the line and it's not Sydney Sweeney or Jacob Elordi or Zendaya. It's someone we didn't see coming. I talk about this all the time. Like Bradley Cooper on Alias.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jonah Robinson]

Like, you know, like fifth build on Alias and like pop. This happens all the time. That like a background actor or like a fifth build or whatever will pop. So do you have. I have my answer. But do you have an answer of, like, who in Euphoria? I mean, maybe as Maddie's number one boy, you're gonna stump for Alexa.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I really hope, but she's almost too prominent for. I think what we're talking about, like Landry in Friday Night Lights is a very likable character who becomes more prominent as the show goes on. Just.

[Jonah Robinson]

Cause Plemons was so good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, it was just kind of like a force of will and gravitational pull. But yeah, I don't know that Euphoria has one. And granted, I'm not sure many people in shows and movies have a Jesse Plemons in them just like hanging out in the background.

[Jonah Robinson]

And this is where my answer to you was. Austin Abrams, who's not in season three, got really backgrounded in season two until he like showed up in the play and got a time to shine. But like, I really loved him from the start on Euphoria playing Ethan. He's. He's showed up in like a. A few things, but His. His career is really taking off weapons. He was fantastic in. And then he's gonna be in the new Resident Evil. He's the lead in New Resident Evil.

[Rob Mahoney]

Huge, huge moment for him in that particular regard.

[Jonah Robinson]

I think he's. I love Austin Abrams, especially when he showed up in Weapons as this, like, you know, drug addict. Like, nerdy. Well, whatever. That's how you describe him. Nerdy. Well, she's emotionally in the UK all the time. But he. I was like, this is a role that Timothee Chalamet thinks he's too big to take and he is. But Austin Abraman's like, I'll take it.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's a vacuum and I'll do it.

[Jonah Robinson]

Timmy's like just doing Dune and Marty Supreme. Now give me those Timmy roles from like five years ago and I'll do them.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're saying Timmy has broken through the ceiling and all of the other Timmy's are just like, can we climb up through?

[Jonah Robinson]

But I think he's going to be like Alpha Second Wave Timmy.

[Rob Mahoney]

I could see it. I mean, he does have some of the same appeal, like, slightly different energy. Look, I'm very excited to see him in Resident Evil. I also did note that Caius Go Delario was in a. I don't know if you saw her. The Resident Evil movie she was in. No, it's like her horrendously bad.

[Jonah Robinson]

Her Pirates of the Caribbean that she was in.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, she seems to have a tough run.

[Jonah Robinson]

She's made some choices.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's made some choices. And I haven't seen the later skin stuff that you mentioned and. But you can even tell from this

[Jonah Robinson]

pilot it's like, oh yeah, she's great.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's a character that I'm like, I do want to spend more time with and understand what her whole deal is. But yeah, it's. Do not watch the Resident Evil movie that she appears in as Claire Redfield. It's not good.

[Jonah Robinson]

She was really good in the gentleman Netflix show that came out is ongoing. But she is the. The female lead of that. And that was like when she showed up in that. The Guy Ritchie show with Theo James, etc. I was like, oh, finally something that she like for her to show what she can do with love and respect to the Maze Runner franchise. But like, this is the thing is

[Rob Mahoney]

like, do you have love and respect for the Maze Runner franchise?

[Jonah Robinson]

I don't.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, then why are we giving it. Why are we just handing it away?

[Jonah Robinson]

I just.

[Rob Mahoney]

Joe, I want more for you than just you to give your Love all willy nilly to the Maze Runner.

[Jonah Robinson]

Here's the problem with the Maze Runner franchise as we're talking about sort of launching pads for teens. I love Dylan o'. Brien. Dylan o' Brien comes out of Teen Wolf and he does, like, the Maze Runner franchise. Kaia does the Maze Runner franchise. Thomas Brody Sangster does the Maze Runner franchise. Like, it should have been the Hunger Games for the Twilight for these very talented kids. Like, they cast it well, and it just never hit the way that some of these other teen franchises can hit. And so just like, Dylan o' Brien has been in, like, a weird holding pattern for a long point in his career and, like, is finally, I think, you know, blowing up. Send Help is on Hulu if you

[Rob Mahoney]

want to watch it. I actually did catch up on it.

[Jonah Robinson]

I'm very excited. Yeah, I think you would really enjoy it. But, like, Kya, I've been waiting and the gentleman was a good start, but she deserves even more.

[Rob Mahoney]

But I mean, these actors often do need those sorts of platforms. And I'm not, like, from a professional standpoint, as a young actor getting in a giant franchise like the Maze Runner

[Jonah Robinson]

or getting hate and disrespect to the Maze Runner in your heart.

[Rob Mahoney]

But it's very popular. It makes a lot of money.

[Jonah Robinson]

Usually popular books, you know, like, on paper, people are gonna show up, and

[Rob Mahoney]

that's where you develop those relationships with those actors. It's like, the first time I saw Austin Abrams was in Paper Towns, which is not a very good adaptation of a book that I've never read.

[Jonah Robinson]

I was about to say, you seem like a real John Green guy, but then I remembered you're not a novel guy.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not a novel guy.

[Jonah Robinson]

But you are a John Green.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do appreciate John Green's perspective. I enjoy his podcasting work. I enjoy his perspective on the world. My main takeaway from watching that movie was like, how did they get two Nat Wolves in this? Yeah. And that's kind of. That's the Chalamet Austin Abrams Lane.

[Jonah Robinson]

It's true. It's true. He did. He did double Nat Wolf in that. Yeah. I mean, Austin Abrams did Dash and Lily on Netflix, which was like a very much. I don't know. I'm really. I have my eye on him. I think he's going to do big things. I really do.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, if we take this alumni group for Skins, I agree with you. Like, Daniel Kaluuya is an incredible talent. Again, someone who I also just wish was in even more stuff than he's already in. He's in quite a bit. But between Holt, Kaluuya, Dev Patel, Jack o'. Connell, when we're looking back at this generation of actors in 30 years, who do you think is, like, the standout if there is one of that group? Because they're all still quite young.

[Jonah Robinson]

Absolutely. So if I had to pick one right now in 2026, it's Jack O'. Connell.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. I mean, he's having quite a year.

[Jonah Robinson]

If I have to pick, like, speak truth to my heart, it's Nick Holt. But I just have a lot of loyalty to Nick Holt. I support him in all of his endeavors.

[Rob Mahoney]

I can't be mad about that.

[Jonah Robinson]

What's your.

[Rob Mahoney]

You are a Lex Luthor person.

[Jonah Robinson]

I love Dev Patel. Like, I love Dev Patel. He's making some baffling choices. But, like. And I'm with the Internet. That's like, Deb Patel, make a rom com. Like, absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

That would be wonderful.

[Jonah Robinson]

Should have been Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights. I would have loved that. Like, there's. There's a lot that Dev Patel is not doing that I would like to see him do. But I'll just rewatch the Green Knight in the meantime and have a good time.

[Rob Mahoney]

I will rewatch it every day for the rest of my life. Wonderful. Have a wonderful moment. That's kind of what he needs. It's like Nick Holton, Daniel Kaluuya have worked with, and I would say Jack o', Connell, too, like some very impressive visual directors. Dev Patel has had some of that experience, but also, like, caught some of them on their worst days in terms of some of the movies they've made. His own vehicle for himself. Like, you get the motivation behind it and what he was trying to do with Monkey Man.

[Jonah Robinson]

I really wanted that to go, and it just didn't. I was.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a hard thing to do.

[Jonah Robinson]

Mallory and I were. We went to the premiere at south by, and we were just sort of like. And the whole room was just. Just, like, vibrating with excitement. And then we watched the movie, and we're like, yeah, the bones are here. The idea is here. And watch Dev talk. Like, Dev got on stage and talked about, like, the way in which he practically killed himself in order to make that movie. He's like, and then I nearly lost a finger. And then I did this, and I was like, dev Patel, don't kill yourself. We need you. And please don't kill yourself for Monkey man, of all things.

[Rob Mahoney]

So, yeah, but he can be quite dashing in a Green Knight, if also kind of A failure in his way in that movie. But I also like him in the sort of like in over his head, kind of neurotic, like, newsroom style roles too. Like, I think he can play all sides of that spectrum in a way where I just don't understand why he's not one of the biggest deals on the planet, even right now.

[Jonah Robinson]

This is why one of my own, like, few graphic tees I own is Dev Patel Summer. Because I'm like, it never ends. A huge Dev fan on the Jack o' Connell front, I will say like the first, because I had not seen him in Skins. The first thing that he did that caught my attention was Startup, which is an incredible, like, prison movie. And I think for people who watched him on Skins, to watch him do this incredibly adult, like, harrowing violence sort of film was. Was a huge deal. But for him to do that, to do. Talking about literary adaptations, Dev has done a Dickens and Jack o' Connell has done Lady Chatterley's Lover, and he's fantastic in that. That deserved way more attention than it got, you know. And then now he's in this sort of like sinners 28 years later, you know, is gonna do a Godzilla and Kong movie. Ill advised. When has that ever been a good idea?

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, don't turn your nose up at Godzilla vs Kong. We respect both Godzilla and Kong on this podcast.

[Jonah Robinson]

It's like Godzilla x Kong.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, now they're not exactly enemies. I don't know if you caught up with the last movie, but, like, there was another ice Godzilla and an ice Kong. What? Oh, yeah, It's a whole thing.

[Jonah Robinson]

Are you serious?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, it's, it's. It's. It's a real adventure. It's very Joe. There is an extended sequence in the Godzilla vs Kong sequel in which Dan Stevens has to be basically a giant dentist for King Kong. Like, that's a plot point in the movie.

[Jonah Robinson]

Someday we'll have our reckoning with Dan Stevens and what's going on there.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's not the problem, is it? Not Godzilla vs Kong, he is amazing in. And they're genuinely very fun movies, so I support that.

[Jonah Robinson]

Okay, so it's Godzilla ex con. Like with alongside Kong.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Jonah Robinson]

The New empire is the 2024 is that you're, like, really into.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think both of the first two are good for the record.

[Jonah Robinson]

Okay, great. Good to know that this is your. This is your Charles Dickens eat. This is your garbage cinema. Godzilla and Kong can come play and Kong supernova.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jonah Robinson]

Is what we're talking. And they've got Caitlin Deaver.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Jonah Robinson]

Dan Stevens, Jack o', Connell, Delroy Lindo, Sam Neill and Matthew Modine.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, where's the problem here?

[Jonah Robinson]

I have a lot of problems. Quiet Place, Part 3. Jack O' Connell is also doing. I have some questions about it and then I'm just, I'm really rooting for all of these Skins kids. But I think Jack o' Connell just like really has some, some juice and he's got some real momentum right now.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's got, he's got a lot of fire under him in terms of his career in a way that Daniel Kaluuya did and has points. But it seems like he's made some trade offs and some choices as far as what he wants to be doing.

[Jonah Robinson]

I think it's partially like, from the interviews that I've read, this is partially like his choice to sort of. I don't want to be as much the height of that. The heat of like very.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, get out Black Panther. Like that era is a. That's a lot, a lot to handle.

[Jonah Robinson]

And so he's just sort of like,

[Rob Mahoney]

let's just let me be Spider Punk.

[Jonah Robinson]

You know, he's so good at that. Where's my Spider Punk movie?

[Rob Mahoney]

How similar is Spider Punk to. I guess it's quite different than Posh.

[Jonah Robinson]

Posh Kenneth.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, very different energy night and day.

[Jonah Robinson]

What do you want for Nick Holt and why doesn't he have an Oscar yet?

[Rob Mahoney]

What do I want? I mean, I am eager about this Superman sequel and the idea of him having like an even juicier Superman X. Lex. Right?

[Jonah Robinson]

Not V Lex.

[Rob Mahoney]

Shaky alliances. I mean, we love a shaky alliance.

[Jonah Robinson]

Weren't you the one who were like, you were reporting that your parents are watching young Sherlock.

[Rob Mahoney]

They are watching young Sherlock.

[Jonah Robinson]

And you were really upset to learn that Sherlock and Moriarty are friends.

[Rob Mahoney]

You don't have to air me out. It's just like, if you're gonna make a young Sherlock show, guess what they're gonna be. They're gonna be teenage friends.

[Jonah Robinson]

Yeah. Superman and Lex have been friends on Smallville, but I'd love to see them be friends.

[Rob Mahoney]

I was in the trenches with Smallville, but I'm happy to say that Nicole is one of the best Lex representations we've had on screen.

[Jonah Robinson]

Oh, really?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think he's been very good. So I am looking forward to that sequel. I don't know what the small scale project I want for him is because he has tried a lot of stuff. Yeah, he has dabbled in many genres, many types of parts. He's not in Werewolf, is he?

[Jonah Robinson]

I don't think so. I think he did Nosferatu and packed up his leather satchel and went on his way.

[Rob Mahoney]

But the cravats. What are you supposed to do with all those cravats?

[Jonah Robinson]

He was in the JRR Tolkien biopic. Tolkien that nobody watched, so there is that. He did do that. He is in a project that I'm excited about and you don't give a shit about, which is the David Leitch film, How to Rob a Bank. Nick Holt, Anna Sawai, Zoe Kravitz.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, look, David Leach knows how to SAP the life out of us. Talented cast like that is something Pete

[Jonah Robinson]

Davidson is all the power to do. I'm excited. I'm excited for that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I don't. I don't think that one's gonna work, but.

[Jonah Robinson]

How dare you? You love Anna Sawai.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're gonna say, I love. I love Zoe Kravitz. I love the entire cast that you listed. But, like, what are we doing with David Leach? Come on.

[Jonah Robinson]

He's also in. He's also the star of Tom Ford's. You know, I mentioned A Single man, which is a Tom Ford film that I love and own on physical media and will watch a million times.

[Rob Mahoney]

And yet you're not a Nocturnal Animals person.

[Jonah Robinson]

Remember how betrayed you were to find out that I was not.

[Rob Mahoney]

I really thought we were going to be on that island together. But you abandoned.

[Jonah Robinson]

You were all alone.

[Rob Mahoney]

You were ruined.

[Jonah Robinson]

Me, just you and young Moriarty together forever. But, yeah, this is a Tom Ford film, Cry to heaven, based on 1982 Anne Rice. So, like, peak cocaine and Rice era. I think this is going to be great.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think anything that is somebody's peak cocaine era is great. Nicholas Holt material.

[Jonah Robinson]

Nick Holt and Nocturnal Animals own Golden Globe winner, Aaron Taylor Johnson.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's go.

[Jonah Robinson]

All right, sounds great. Anything else you want to say? We've kind of gone far afield, but anything else you want to say about Skin?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I do think we. We at least need to acknowledge some of the ways that all of this stuff about, like, oh, this is controversial. Oh, this is boundary pushing. This is edgy. And it's like, also a lot of the performers, especially the women who were on the show, were like, this made me deeply uncomfortable to do, especially in retrospect. I mean, it's not great. And this is the thing where it's like, you want to make a teen show where the characters feel like they have a lot of autonomy. Right. And I think this is an area where Euphoria feels to me, I'm not behind the scenes. I don't see everything going on with the production. Feels slightly different. You hear conversations about, like, oh, Sydney Sweeney said she wanted to draw the line here. And so they did. And they took out these scenes. They changed these plot lines. They cut out some of the nudity. Even though that may seem. Seem ridiculous to think about when you

[Jonah Robinson]

watch Euphoria has Drawn Lines.

[Rob Mahoney]

Believe it or not, they. They did take things out of Euphoria. But the idea that these, again, very teenage performers were on a show in which they were dictated, like, and. And the women have said, like, I showed up to set on day one, and they're like, the first thing you're shooting is a sex scene at a point in time where there was really no oversight about this kind of stuff. Like, it does feel a little gross.

[Jonah Robinson]

Something that Daniel Kaluuya said in that interview that I was reading where he talked. He said they did not give the cast the scripts until, like, right before they shot. And I was like, but why? Yeah, but why? You know, that's the thing. If it's for that reason, so that, like, young, impressionable, at the beginning of their career, actors can't get in the

[Rob Mahoney]

room and say no.

[Jonah Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I think, like, young actors, like, I don't want to take away, like, their choices. Like, they get to make those calls. I think a lot of young actors are game for a lot of different things, but you have to give them a chance to prepare for it and, like, physically, emotionally, in terms of their character and their work. There's just, like, little stuff about the background of the show that I'm reading, and I'm like, April Pearson, who plays Michelle, posted this thing where she literally was looking at the script for this episode, looking back at the script for the pilot, and the way Michelle is described in the script is, quote, jail bait, beautiful, wearing a tiny skirt and top. And it's like, I understand very different time and place, different things were kind of flying under the radar in a lot of different respects, but that's just gross in any time. That being part of the show, I think is unfortunate and inextricable and also part of the shock value of the whole thing as far as, like, yeah, these are real teenagers who. I also want to note, I think a big part of this is the difference in the age of consent in the UK versus here and what adulthood means. And is there's like, this. This gray area of, like, yes, you are technically 16 years old, and thus in the UK you are an adult, and you can do and show things on TV as a result of that that just, like, would not really happen here.

[Jonah Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

But also, are you an adult in every other sense of that word? It's just. It's a little. It's a little too gray for me at times.

[Jonah Robinson]

I think this is a good opportunity for us to shout out one of the other shows that we were thinking of doing, which is Normal People, which, when you watch this show and any of the. And Euphoria, for that matter, like, I think the, you know, like, sexiest, steamiest of all of those is Normal People, a show that was done with extreme care and, you know, intimacy coordination at every step of the way. And those young actors have talked about the way in which, even though this was a. A, like, first project for them, they were treated with the utmost respect. And it's just sort of like. And then they generated, like, a thing that got a lot of people through Covid, you know, and so it could be done without this disgusting aspect, even

[Rob Mahoney]

just with the bare minimum considerations. I know we've kind of gone around the bend on the whole intimacy coordinator conversation, and different performers and different people feel so differently about what is. What should be necessary in that room. Sure, Whatever you feel is necessary. Skins didn't have it, I can assure you, based on reading.

[Jonah Robinson]

Not even the option of it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nope.

[Jonah Robinson]

No. All right. Anything else you want to talk about?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we covered most of it. I mean, again, all of that said, I still am very interested in watching more of the show and understanding more of these characters. It's just I'm. I am clutching my pearls just like everyone else.

[Jonah Robinson]

I guess it's a rite of passage. Rob, you're officially old now. Welcome. We will be back with more Euphoria, of course, live on Sunday nights. Live, not really, but instant ish reactions on Sunday nights. The panic is there. The discomfort of watching that show with your co workers is there. Please tune in to find out.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, that's really the most euphoria experience possible. It's like, how do you go into a weird, vulnerable, sexual place in a room with a bunch of people you work with? That's just what it is.

[Jonah Robinson]

That's Sunday nights here at Sycamore Studios, and then we'll be covering more Widows Bay coming up. Episode four, Widows Bay, is an absolute banger. So I'm really excited for it us to cover that. And then we'll be checking in with Friday Night Lights at the end of the month. Texas Forever.

[Rob Mahoney]

Rob, what a lineup.

[Jonah Robinson]

I mean, what are we doing? Just enjoying ourselves?

[Rob Mahoney]

Who's programming this thing?

[Jonah Robinson]

Thank you to Dev, our very own Dev. Not Patel, it's Dev Ronaldo. Summer, as far as I'm concerned, every summer, get the shirts made. Thanks to Jacob, who is here. Thank you to everyone. Thank you to Kai Grady, who is not here, but here always in spirit. Thank you to Rob Mahoney.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you, Joe.

[Jonah Robinson]

Thank you to the traumatized teens of the United Kingdom.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thanks to the flip phone.

[Jonah Robinson]

Yeah. Thank you to 10 to 12 layered tank tops.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, yeah.

[Jonah Robinson]

Yeah. Thank you to the overworked Flatirons. We appreciate you. MySpace, they need a rest. Tom from MySpace, you're my friend forever. Bye.