← The Prestige TV Podcast
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- [00:14]
A
Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.
- [00:17]
B
I'm Rob Mahoney and we are here.
- [00:19]
A
To cover slow horses Season 5. Rob TV it's here.
- [00:26]
B
It is truly here. I'm thrilled to be back and I will say I think Slow Horses is thrilled to be back too. It's a real like, let's get, let's get back to basics kind of set up for the season that I am incredibly excited about.
- [00:38]
A
So we're gonna talk about the season five premieres. We haven't watched that yet. Please go watch it and come back. Season five, episode one, bad Dates, which made me think of Indiana Jones. I don't know how you feel about that phrase, but so we will be talking about that. We also have some like, slightly broader context about this season about the book it's based on. No spoilers though. I. Neither of us have read the book that it's based on. Neither of us have watched ahead. Of course we're watching week to week, but I did sort of ferret out some, some context that might be helpful in helping us process what is going on with Slough House this season. We're going to be covering Slow Horses week to week. It's only a six episode season, so we'll be doing that week to week. We are, of course, have our ongoing task coverage, usually with one William Simmons, but who's to say what the rest of the season will look and then we will have a finale for our Hooked miniseries. We're doing the Sopranos at long last. So that is what is happening on this feed. It's a lot.
- [01:39]
B
How do you feel about that, Joe, about you? You're finally, you know, like we are both new to the Sopranos, but how do you feel about finally dipping into that world?
- [01:47]
A
I'm really excited, actually. I don't know. I'm. We will be. I'll be watching the pilot, obviously, and then whatever, you know, episode. We've asked our listeners to sort give us some ideas of what a good hooked episode would be. We're gonna have a guest who's gonna have an opinion about what a good episode might be. This will just be like a toe dip into the world of the Sopranos. But as you've discovered with the Hooked miniseries that we did, it's hard not to just keep going once you start quite poked some of these incredibly classic shows. So I don't know what will my identity be, Rob, when I'm no longer the person who talks about television but hasn't seen the Sopranos who am I anymore after that? I don't know.
- [02:29]
B
It's going to be a hard look in the mirror for both of us, you know, really facing down our flaws as TV commentators, if not critics. Like, again, what are we supposed to do once we knock this one final thing off the list? Well.
- [02:44]
A
Usually we ask our listeners to email us prestigepotify.com and you can always do that. But Rob Mahoney, this is the first time I believe, one of our bespoke emails has come back around for a second dip into a season of television. So what was the special Slow Horses email that we came up with for season four?
- [03:08]
B
Some of our best work of all time. Joe. That email is Arsetime the pope@gmail.com. that is a R S E T I M E the pope@gmail.com and I would encourage people to use it. You know, not that it really matters. We're going to read your emails anyway. But it brings me great satisfaction when people use it.
- [03:26]
A
It. Something I've noticed is I think people get more excited to email us when there's a sort of special email involved. Like we had the basic email for the first week of task, but the second week of task, once you hit DJ Grossanova, the email is just severely up. People just get excited about typing out ours, time the Pope, or whatever the case may be. So this is season five. This is Critter, Will Smith's last season. How do you feel about that, Rob? That, that, that Will, who we've talked to before, who is departing the series, how does that make you feel about relishing these six episodes?
- [04:02]
B
I mean, I'm certainly going to be relishing it. Makes me a little bit nervous just because this show is such a machine, right? Like, they know how to make it. They know how to churn out these seasons, they know how to keep it on time. Then how to get the actors in and out. They know how to get the edit done. Like, Will Smith has done such a great job in this era of waiting, roughly a lifetime in between seasons of, I don't know, stranger things, just keeping us with, you know, a steady supply of actually good tv. And I hope that continues. I'm sure it's still, you know, the cadence of the show is expected to continue apace, but I'll believe it when I see it when someone else is at the reins.
- [04:36]
A
We also want to mention, you know, we're recording this a couple days after the Emmys happened, though, you know, it will be even longer once this actually Airs for you to listen to. So Horses one outstanding directing in a drama series. Adam Randall won that for the season four finale. Hella goodbye. This was a win that we were a little. We love slow Horses. I would say we both agree that season four was maybe not our favorite season, not all the way through, but sort of by the end we were a little like, is this what we want? I think you and I and Chris Ryan texted us about this sort of before we had a chance to watch the episode that this felt like a bit like a return to form in this episode. So I'm really excited for season 5. However I felt about season 4. Is there anything you want to say about the Emmy win in your larger prestige TV thoughts and feelings?
- [05:31]
B
It's complicated because I never want to begrudge a Slow Horses win of any kind because we love this show. But rewarding the finale of the least Slow horses season of Slow Horses, I do feel mixed about and I especially feel mixed about it up against some of the amazing direction that was being done, for example, on Severance, like our favorite episodes of Severance by Jessica Lee Gagne in particular. It's like I think that's an all time directorial performance and the fact that it can't even, it can't even pull the Emmy in its own year is kind of crazy.
- [06:02]
A
It's tough. It was really tough. Yeah. But as you say, we love to see slow horses awarded. I will say, like when Will Smith won the riding Emmy, you know, the previous year, like I, you know, shouted from the rooftops, I was so excited. This was like, it feels like more of a we want slow horses represented in this Emmy year more than like this specific or this stands in for the whole season because as we've mentioned before in Slow Horses coverage, they, they are sort of single director seasons of television. So Adam winning for the finale is sort of Adam winning for the the whole season. And the director of season five is Saul Metstein, who directed season three as well. A great season of so Horses. Also, also Rob the phenomenal Doctor who episode Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. So just that is. That is a banger, truly just something to think about. So anything you want to say, you know, before we get into some book context and then we'll sort of break down some character moments inside of this episode about where we left off in that Hello Goodbye finale. Anything like contextually that you were. That was on your mind as we went into this episode about where our favorite characters were at the end of last season.
- [07:22]
B
I mean, my chief concern was how are these characters going to be looped in together again? They were strewn apart. They were pulled in different kind of interpersonal directions. It was like every character had their respective traumas over the first three seasons, and then they got channeled into their little silos. I think especially in River's case. My big question for the season was, is river going to be back at Slough House, or is he still going to be palling around in some foreign country? And I'm delighted that the answer so far is that he's back and he's back in the mix with the other characters that we care about and that we know and love and seeing their dynamic again. That's what I wasn't positive we were going to get in the, you know, the regular intervals that we did in the first three seasons. But it's what makes slow horses feel like slow horses to me.
- [08:07]
C
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- [09:03]
A
When Chris Ryan texted us and was like, hey, have you guys watched the first episode? Neither of us had. And then I just immediately did. And then I came back to the group text. You hadn't watched it yet, though, so I didn't want to say this in the group text, but I was thinking about you a lot because I was like, this episode has to both really excite Rob and then really depress Rob because, yep, your two people are, I would say, Shirley and Louisa. Right. Like, you're a Shirley head and a Louisa head. This is setting up a great Shirley.
- [09:35]
B
Season and we needed one, honestly. Like, she's been given some scant material, I would say at times, couple of years.
- [09:43]
A
But you're your girl, Louisa. I don't know because I. Once again, I have no book spoilers. I don't know. But, like, is this it for Louisa? Do you feel like this is a genuine exit from the show and from the plot, or is it going to be just when she thought, you know, we got a real don't call me, I'll call you moment from Louisa?
- [10:04]
B
Heartbreaking. Yeah.
- [10:04]
A
But is it just gonna be like she's immediately pulled back in? Is it a mid season pullback in which is only like two episodes from now? Like, what do you think is going on with your girl?
- [10:14]
B
I am willing to accept this could be her final season. I am not willing to accept that this is her last appearance of this season. And in fact, if she is not back by episode three, at minimum, I'm gonna be furious about it. So, you know, whatever person I need to write an angry, sternly worded letter to, whether that's Will Smith or otherwise, about a work of art that's already been completed and shot and edited and sent, sent out for distribution, I'm willing to do it. I think there's enough reason to believe that she's gonna hang around. Like, the stuff in this first episode with her and river is so great and is so heartbreaking that if that's the last of that relationship we see, I just think that would be gutting even by Slow Horse's standards. And so I am choosing to believe that she is still in the air somewhere.
- [11:02]
A
Going out on an unwanted kiss is not the way you want this all to wrap up here, but a very.
- [11:07]
B
Wanted, I would say moment of the episode for me is in response to the unwanted kiss. The look that she gives river followed by the raspberry dismissal is just perfect, perfect television.
- [11:19]
A
It's, it's, it's pretty tremendous stuff from both of them, honestly. Okay, I want to give, if you'll indulge me, some book context for this season of television, as is my want. So this is, you know, we've already talked about the Slow Horses book series. We got a lot of listeners in our season four coverage who had read the books, sort of wrote in with some thoughts, no spoilers, but just sort of like adaptive thoughts and stuff like that. This show is an unusually faithful adaptation kind of show. Unusually like faithful and loyal to the books. This is based on the fifth book in the series, London Rules, and just some context on that, published in 2018. And it's not like London Rules. It's like the idea of London Rules.
- [12:07]
B
Which I was waiting for it.
- [12:08]
A
Which. Which gets brought up in this episode. We'll talk about that in a second. But.
- [12:12]
B
Well, this is. Look, I will say it depends on who you ask. I think there are political factions within this first episode who. Their stance would just be London Rules.
- [12:20]
A
Yeah. Maybe that should be the campaign slogan for the Gimbal Party. Perhaps it could rule.
- [12:25]
B
If it were tougher on crime, it could in fact rule.
- [12:28]
A
That's a real like, Hail Britannia sort of idea of London ruling. Okay, so. So this. This book was published in 2018 and it is definitely McCarron dealing with the 2016 Brexit referendum vote. That is definitely, like the background of. Of his focus for this book from what I've seen. Again, no spoilers. I was just sort of trying to see, like, what do people like this book? Is this a well liked book in the series? It's a lot of people's favorite book in the series, it seems like. And the general consensus is, is that it's darker. More viciously pointed politically, but funnier. So darker yet funnier. Which, sign me up. Sounds great.
- [13:11]
B
Yeah.
- [13:12]
A
As you might expect, having already watched this episode, it's a Roddy season and it's a Shirley season. Is. Is sort of what is promised. And. And can I share since we don't have the benefit of like, voiceovers or. Or, you know, your mileage may vary in voiceovers, but since we don't have voices in slow horses, can I share some dueling passages that I saw somewhere? Because we're inside different characters heads inside of these books. Right. So I'm gonna give you a Roddy pov and then I'm gonna give you the immediate Shirley POV that follows it. Okay.
- [13:46]
B
I would love it.
- [13:46]
A
So this is. This is Roddy. Neat little goatee in a baseball cap. Originality plus style. Roderick Ho was the complete package. The way Brad Pitt used to be before the unpleasantness. Okay, so that's. And then immediately after you get. Shirley Ho looked basically like a dumb tourist who'd been ripped off twice already, once by someone selling hats and a second time by someone giving away beards. Um, so that's just like the push and pull, I guess, of London Rules that, you know, we've already seen a taste of in episode one. How excited does that make you to have this idea of like a Roddy Shirley? This is a very much an ensemble. River is back in the mix. We're all sort of together season. But if we had to sort of like Isolate it. It's kind of a Roddy Shirley season. How do you feel about that?
- [14:36]
B
I'm thrilled about it. I mean, especially the way that their two plot lines are kind of intersecting at this point, which is Shirley is hyper vigilant in her PTSD and seeing threats everywhere, including what doesn't seem to be a credible threat to Roddy specifically, even though he almost got hit by a, you know, a moving van. It was more just kind of like she was right about him almost getting hit by a van. She was right about some circumstantial things, but wrong about the way all the pieces are fitting together. And so the fact that she is trying to help someone who doesn't believe he needs to be helped, who doesn't see himself as being in trouble, but is seems to be being targeted for wholly irrelevant or wholly side reasons, that's kind of a thrilling conceit for me.
- [15:15]
A
What do you think exactly she's wrong about?
- [15:18]
B
I think, look, the van, let's take it like from the origin moment where she pushes Roddi out of the way of a moving fan. This is the van. We see the assassin of the assassin get back into flee the scene of the original crime. Like, I don't believe that the driver of that van, which presumably is the sniper, is trying to hit Roddy specifically. I think he is trying to get away from the scene. And so she is taking it as a, as a threat in the same way that Slough House was just targeted at the end of last season when there was a full on assault that they had to fend their way out of with a kettle and is choosing to see that as like a targeted thing versus a circumstantial thing.
- [15:54]
A
Okay. I think they are connected. I don't have any like absolute concrete evidence about that, but I just think the way that these things happen in slow horses, they usually do wind up being connected. So I wouldn't be surprised if it's not just a coincidental that van was leaving the scene of a mass murder and just happened to sort of like nearly buzz one of our main characters. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like, yeah, it's, it's all connected. But again, I don't know.
- [16:23]
B
In terms of their argument, Joe is surely right. I'm willing to go along with what, whatever train you want to take that down.
- [16:29]
A
Surely reading river to filth in this episode, pretty phenomenal stuff.
- [16:35]
B
Okay, really great.
- [16:37]
A
London Rules is a title. The show version, which we hear part of in this episode that we've heard a Couple times from Rivers grandfather, etc is Moscow rules. Watch your back. London rules. Cover your arse. Right, like, that's. That's the. That's the idea. Can I read you quickly the. The book version of this?
- [16:59]
B
Yes.
- [16:59]
A
Which is if Moscow rules meant watch your back, London rules meant cover your arse. Moscow Rules had been written on the streets, but London Rules were devised in the corridors of Westminster. And the short version read, someone always pays. Make sure it isn't you. Nobody knew that better than Jackson Lamb, and nobody played it better than Diana Tavener. So I was thinking about that passage specifically, and, you know, we will. This is not the focus of this episode by any stretch of the imagination, but the thing that it immediately pinged for me is that our guy, James Callis, who we were just talking about in Battlestar Galactica, who plays Claude Whelan, who. Who is bumbling his way already through this episode in. In the previous season. There are things that were set up in season four that are paying off here. Roddy's catfish experience continues apace this time in. In. In. In the. In the real world. But. But Wieland's eminently vulnerable to blackmail because there is just dirt out there. And so if this idea is like, cover your arse, like, what. What kind of pawn is he going to become to people who want to leverage him? I. Again, this is not anything I know about, but I'm like. Of all the people who are, like, most invested in covering their arse and are most in danger of being exposed, he seems like a prime suspect to me inside of, like, what the characters we know already. You know what I mean?
- [18:33]
B
Especially within the mechanism of, you know, we have this inciting incident with this, you know, mass shooting in a shopping center. We also have the kind of background of the mayoral race in London that's happening in real time and, you know, Claude's chilly dismissal of Gimbal's wife, Dodie, in particular, who is his wife and campaign manager and a tabloid journalist who already has an adversarial relationship with him. She feels like she could be an easy mechanism to pull up, like, yeah, you know, again, just someone who, like, the politics of London at this time are factoring into not just the shooting in which the shooter already owns some of Gimbel's books in particular, which he, you know, refuses to accept, but, like, the fact that all this stuff is going to get tangled up in the way that the crime is painted in the press and the way that's understood by people in. As you're alluding to with the London rules, like, who is taking the blame for this stuff? Ultimately, like, Claude has a lot to say about who is going to take the blame, and it's sure as hell not going to be him.
- [19:30]
A
Him. We'll see. We'll see, man. Let's talk. So we open with this attack in Abbottsfield, and. And that is often the case with the Slow Horses season, that there's like sort of a big inciting incident. Right. And this is, as you alluded to, Slow Horses seasons are done a long time ago. This was shot a long time ago. It happens to be coming out right when we here in America and, you know, ramifications globally are in the thick of our own conversations about political violence. Lonely white men who are susceptible to influence on message boards. You know, we're always having that conversation, but we are very much having that conversation right now. So how do you feel, Rob, about, you know, this. In this. In larger environment? You know, we don't. Obviously, the book is not making a comment on this particular moment in our history. No, the show is not making a comment on this particular moment in our American history necessarily. But it's, you know, we are recording this the day after Jimmy Kimmel show, you know, got pulled by abc. Like, there is a lot of. Of heated feelings about this. How does it make you feel watching this episode and thinking about, you know, we don't have to go too deeply into it, but it's just sort of like, I don't know, this is the context we're absorbing this particular story in.
- [20:54]
B
Yes, I would say it's kind of twofold. One, there is just something that is always chilling, especially in these particular times, about watching a young guy silently pull an assault rifle out of a bag and just gun down people in a public square in, like, such an indiscriminate and dispassionate way. It's like, it's very chilling to watch. And I think Slow Horse is at its best, even though it's taken the piss out of so many things. Usually the violent acts at the center of these seasons or the plots at the center of these seasons are dastardly, evil, distressing stuff. And the miracle of the show is that they can make you forget that with fart jokes. And the balance of that is the alchemy that makes the horses so successful. But this was one of those moments where I could not help but think of the baggage and the way that an American audience receives an episode like this versus a British audience in particular. Like this idea of a mass shooting. Like, 11 people are killed in the shooting. There has not been a shooting of that scale in the United kingdom in, like, 15 years. Here in America, a mass shooting is like, it's Thursday, you know, like, this is just kind of what happens around here.
- [21:57]
A
We literally did just have one.
- [21:59]
B
Yeah, completely. And so the idea of what we watch and how we're watching it for those two audiences in particular, it's like, I would love to hear from, you know, anyone who is watching the show in the uk anyone who's watching the show from a country that is not America, and how something like this lands with you, if this is. If this hits in the same chilling way or if it feel sort of abstracted into novelized spy violence in the way that it kind of is.
- [22:23]
A
Yeah, it's interesting. It reminded me of the conversations we had around the guns, you know, last season, you know, because the. The conversation about, like, arming the people in Slough House inside of this episode comes up. And it reminded me that when we talked about this last season, we were got, I think, a bit of an extra education from our listeners about the idea of, you know, people in law enforcement in the UK and how rare it is to have a gun inside of that space. And so, yeah, the. The different. Are really depressingly different approaches towards violence and gun violence, you know, across the pond. But I think what we are trying to do here with this mayoral race, we've got Nick Muhammad, who, you know, most American audiences know from Ted Lasso, if. If you are a UK fan, you might know him from his incredible turn on Taskmaster or very good. His Persona, Mr. Swallow or whatever. I'm a huge Nick Muhammad fan. I'm really glad that he's here, you know, playing this. You know, they've changed it from the book that it was like, sort of a slightly more obscure, like, West Midlands mayoral race. This is the London mayoral race. Right. So the stakes are, like, a little bit higher, obviously, on that. So Jaffrey, as this incumbent mayor, this hope v. Hate dynamic that is set up by his. By his followers in the opening scene before the massacre, this idea that in 2016, as London votes for Brexit, they also elect Sadiq Khan, who is London's first Muslim and ethnic minority mayor, who is still mayor of London, but like, that. That is definitely like a real world comp. That's in the mix here for McCarron as he puts this together. What do you think about how, you know, we see the two mayoral candidates talking as talking heads on the news Sort of in the background after the massacre. And then we go into. I'm just gonna, like, take us directly over into the mayoral debate, seeing which you've already talked about a little bit. Like, how is this all piecing together for you in a sort of political arena?
- [24:34]
B
I mean, so far, it's all very recognizable, left and right stuff. Right. It's like, I'm going to go out on a limb and say, as is basically always the case with slow horses, it's never going to be that simple. It's always going to be a fair bit more complicated than that in the end. And in fact, like, of all the players who could be kind of gnarled up and twisted and leveraged, I mean, Jaffrey seems like he could be the kind of guy who gets caught in something and forced to compromise in ways that are, you know, against his messaging or his values, for sure.
- [25:02]
A
Right. It's interesting. Nick Muhammad did this really interesting small smile moment when Claude reveals to them that the shooter was a gimbal supporter. There's this, like, tiny little smile on his face that he quickly smothers in the sort of, you know, think of the human cost sort of demeanor that he's putting on this thing that Gimbal calls him out for. Why are you talking like this? There's no one here. You know what I mean? Like, why are you performing, in a way, totally, anyway. And he is. Because he is kind of talking in platitudes. You know, I'm. I'm inclined, perhaps because I like Nick Muhammad so much or whatever, but I'm, like, inclined to think nice things about this character.
- [25:49]
B
But they also want that.
- [25:51]
A
Yeah. Is there a way in which. You know, they've already mentioned twice this idea of, like, a false flag or a stitch up, you know, is there a version of this story where Joffrey, either with the help of his chief of staff or not, has. I mean, that's deeply dark. He's the favorite to win, but, like, has orchestrated something like this or is at least slightly involved, or is it just, I'm gonna benefit from this, and so I'm gonna take a small amount of personal satisfaction from that. What do you think?
- [26:21]
B
I mean, at minimum, he is a political operator, right? Like, I think that's what we see in that moment where he cannot separate himself from, like, the stump talking points or kind of like the very politically rote thing to respond to in a moment. Like, there's no. For all the warmth like, that he brings as a performer, it's all kind of like washed away in political blandness in that moment. I think, like, that's a great, that's a great way to kind of stage this character. And also the juxtaposition, as you said, with an actor in Nick Muhammad who we are inclined to like and who audiences, especially in like a post Ted lasso world, having seen both sides of it, I think are still inclined to like. But having that as a baseline allows him to play against type. It allows him to kind of skirt the line and for us to kind of figure out where he actually stands with this stuff.
- [27:07]
A
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- [27:55]
C
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- [29:24]
A
I was fascinated. So Krishna Guru Murthy, who is like a real UK journalist is playing the debate moderator here and that's an unusual thing for so horses to do, I think. So again, like they're not really shying away from how, how much they're playing in the real world politics of, of London, of the uk. But I think what's interesting about this season, I'll be curious to see how local we keep all of this because, you know, as we ask questions about Roddy's girlfriend, as we ask questions about the shooter of the shooter and all of the sort of factions involved there, what is present so far is less a. Like there's a big giant Russian conspiracy or, you know, River's dad is, you know, farming super soldiers in France or whatever. And this is just sort of like an. Let's look within what is the rot inside of our own system, our own society, our own culture that we can examine. Which I think is an interesting flip on some of the sort of more global Someone's gonna fly a plane into a building stakes that we've seen in other seasons.
- [30:41]
B
I think that's why it's like, it feels like season five and season one in particular are kind of in conversation with one another in terms of that, that particular kind of sociopolitical intrigue and who is doing it for what reasons. And kind of the theater that is laid over that's like already where we're starting with this season. And I really like the creation of these two characters and kind of their respective aids. In terms of the campaign manager, in terms of Tyson Bowman, the six six chief of staff who's going to leg press a school bus at any moment. Gimbal too, for a character who you're clearly set up to think of a certain way. I love the way that character is being pitched and played so far. I love the potential for what it can do to the plot and how it's going to kind of drive and push some of these other characters in the frame. And you know, Joe as one, you know, from one bestseller to another. I'm curious if you have a favorite of the, you know, the great Gimbal works. We've got the bulldog spirit, the Englishman's Burden and Pride and Empire. Which. Which would you say was your favorite?
- [31:42]
A
I think the Englishman's Burden, as a sort of spin on the White man's Burden is gonna be my pick. Can't wait to read all of them. They all sound like they're full of great ideas, ideas that really resonate with me. So thanks so much for doing your freeze frame best here, Rob.
- [31:59]
B
Well, along those lines, I did notice all from the same publisher, so, you know, those are fucking hits. That's like, okay, the first one really landed and we got to lock this guy into a. To a three book deal after that.
- [32:10]
A
I will say, I honestly think the character that I'm most excited about is. Is Dodie. The. Victoria Hamilton is an actress who's, you know, tabloid journalist who just like swans in talking about octoroons and calls Claude Dame Whelan and all this is, like, deeply nasty. Right? Victoria Hamilton is an actress who I know best from, like, early aughts period pieces. And she was always really good at, like, being catty in a. In a very British kind of way. And so I'm really excited to see her here, and I'm really excited, like, what a repugnant person and. But what an entertainingly repugnant person, you know, potentially to watch this season.
- [32:51]
B
So she seems like an incredibly tough hang, and yet we all have to just sit back and acknowledge that her saying that Claude was looking for James Bondage is just a great line. Like, look, I don't care what anybody says. Like, you just got to salute it.
- [33:04]
A
She knows ahead. She knows a deck. She knows. She knows how to hook readers. She gets just like a sort of great villain walk to camera moment while her husband's like, shouldn't have done that. Like, that's. That's just exciting, I think. All right, let's. Well, let's. Let's go back to Slough House and let's. Let's go to our guy, Roddy. Chris Chung, who was doing a bunch of press when he was in town for the Emmys, is really aware that this is, like, his season, his time to shine. And gets an iconic entrance to Simply Irresistible. Dancing through the street, running into women, and as they, like, protest that he has jostled them, he's like, blowing them kisses like, hey, babe, how. How's your time with Rowdy been so far this season, Rob?
- [33:56]
B
A goddamn delight. Come on. Like, I think, you know, it's not just the new tracksuit and the pink highlights.
- [34:03]
A
It is like, it is so good.
- [34:05]
B
It is the flexing of, like, a very specific kind of confidence that can only come from, like, an improbable and inexplicableness new relationship. Right. Like, he is feeling himself in a way that a character who already was as brash and overconfident as anybody at Slough House, and that is saying something. But he is hitting a totally different level that I'm having a great time with.
- [34:25]
A
I love the way that, like, Shirley, who absolutely despises him, but, like, Shirley in the club had to be like, I kind of get it, actually. He's a. He's.
- [34:34]
B
He's a good piece of meat. I don't know what to tell you.
- [34:36]
A
I could see it, you know, I see the vision in Shirley's tracking of Roddy to the club and all that sort of stuff, and all of her snide commentary about his girlfriend, her, like, sort of delightful scene partner. And a lot of that is Catherine. And Catherine is just seems. Seems like Catherine Sanders seems like she's just. Right. Folded back into the office. This is a big plot of the previous season, is sort of like, Catherine's out of the office. This has not bode well for Louisa leaving the office, to be honest with you. But, like, Catherine is just seems to be fully back. Right. Like, without any sort of bump in the road. She's just entirely back in the mix.
- [35:16]
B
Back in the fold. Seems up on everything that's going on. Like, I just kind of. And I would say, you know, one of her. Part of her evolution over the past couple seasons when she's been in the office is, like, getting out into the field more in this sort of capacity. And it was nice that there was no moment from Shirley that was like, why are you here following me? It was more like, why is anybody following me? Like, don't. I don't need babysitting. But it wasn't alarming that it was Catherine who was doing the babysitting.
- [35:42]
A
But I do love that Catherine's like, I'm not gonna blend in this club. I'm gonna need River. I'm gonna need you to come over. I don't blend. Also, there's outdoors.
- [35:51]
B
Does river blend?
- [35:52]
A
Absolutely not.
- [35:54]
B
No.
- [35:54]
A
Enjoy your shitty music in your shitty club. As his, like, parting message. Okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna use Catherine as a way to go and go over to Lamb, because this is actually like a lamb. A very lamb light episode. Yes.
- [36:09]
B
I think, weirdly, Joe, a Lamb and taverner light episode.
- [36:13]
A
Oh, a very Tavern or light episode. And, like, get some zingers in there, which we will talk about, certainly, but. But very peripheral. But something I will tell you again, I don't know spoilers from this book. I don't know spoilers from the season, but a vague thing that I saw was potential Lamb backstory. More Lamb backstory, which is something, you know. We've gotten some tidbits here and there, but, like, inside of this book is potentially more information about how Lamb wound up in Slough House, which I kind of thought we knew. But, like, maybe there's just more to the story that we don't know. But if they go a little light here, only to go much heavier later in terms of, like, peeling back the layers of this character who was intentionally, like, pretty just shrouded in a cloud of noodle funk and farts. Wait, did you see Will Smith's promise? What did he call it? He promised a, quote, weaponized story based fart this season.
- [37:15]
B
Wow. And we've already gotten one. I remember him, like, hot boxing somebody in a car until they did what he said. Like, it has happened before, and I look forward to the more creative deployments in the future.
- [37:26]
A
Excellent. Excellent stuff. Anything else you want to say about Lamb in this episode?
- [37:30]
B
I mean, we did not get a fart in this episode, but I thought we did get some phenomenal cough acting from Gary Oldman, who is just like, killing himself deliberately via cigarette, if not just by his diet. And as usual, the way he kind of uses all this stuff as a defense mechanism, the way he uses it to kind of shoo people out of the room by being gross. Or in Shirley's case, the way he kind of, like, protects her with his own incompetence. The like, I don't even remember where I put the gun. And so therefore, you can't have it when. Look, there are 5 million reasons why Shirley should not be holding a gun right now. And Lamb, I thought by his standards, was quite gentle about it.
- [38:08]
A
I think that inside of that exchange about the gun, we get this information about how he covered for them with the whole Marcus shootout at the end of last season. Not that we would doubt it, but it's interesting to me that he reminded her of that. It's interesting to me that they're all sort of existing in, you know, as if Sow House wasn't already run down, where we're just, like, walking around in the open construction area of a. Of a massive violent attack that happened in the very heart of the organization last season. Shirley is a walking, as you said, like, PTSD case and she is constantly surrounded by shot out windows and like broken down walls and stuff like that. She's constantly reminded. And I was, I rewatched just the, you know, Emmy winning finale of, of last season to, to really, really remind myself of where we left off. And so the moment that Shirley. What? You know, we get the shot, we hear the shot. They don't see Marcus die, but we hear the shot. And then Lamb comes in and takes care of some business with Shirley, stuff like that. And then Shirley wants to go out to find out what happened to Marcus and Lamb tries to stop her, right? He's like, don't, don't go. Look like he knows, he already knows is going to be terrible for her, but, but he knows it's going to be even worse for her if she goes. And then she goes, right? And then also in that same scene when CO is trying to talk Shirley down a little later from shooting River's half brother who's tied to a radiator, he says about Marcus too, Shirley, he loved you and he wanted you to love yourself. That's how CO talks Shirley out of shooting this guy. And so in the scene we get in this episode where Shirley is playing river and talking about the drugs and like thinking about Marcus like that, like she's playing him. But is there also truth inside of, of that moment, like how much she is being haunted by. It's not just that like if they get one of us, any of us is vulnerable. It's not just that we were only armed with a kettle and couldn't defend ourselves. It said it's Marcus specifically who was Shirley's like, yeah, partner in the last.
- [40:26]
B
Two seasons and that it was on their home turf too. I think that like the invasive quality of him being him being killed in what was supposed to be like their space, I think is so different than if he had gotten killed in like the Tiger Team shootout in season three. Right. Like, it just registers for a character like Shirley in a totally different way. So I, I mean, look, clearly she's carrying a lot of damage. Slow Horses is a show about that sort of shrapnel for all of its characters. Like, these are fuck ups. These are people who have gotten people killed who have been responsible for killing the wrong person who ended up in Slough House for a reason. And Shirley is showing all of the reasons why she is here. She is diving off of balconies into clubs and just decking people. She's pulling delivery guys off of bikes. And yeah, she tells an occasional Sob story to get her coke back. In part because it's true, but also because she really wants her fucking coke back. Please.
- [41:18]
A
Yeah, I. Her having. Getting the best of river, who is an absolute, like, monster to her inside of this episode is. Is phenomenal stuff on the CO front. If this is a light Lamb or. Or Taverner episode, this is a, like, feather light CO episode. CO is like a character who comes in last season, Tom Brooks character. We get very little of him last season. He's just sort of lurking about. Is his. His vibe. How much more do you want of him this season? Or do you like. I mean, I thought his. The little, like, jump scare moment.
- [41:57]
B
That was so funny.
- [41:58]
A
Really good. But do you want him to continue to be this, like, sort of lurking, jump scare figure? Or do you want. Do you feel like there's room inside of this Shirley Roddy mayoral race season to expand co Or. Or are you, like, maybe we'll wait till season six or something like that to get more of it? And what do you think?
- [42:20]
B
That might be a season six thing? I think you just nailed it where it's the mayoral race, it's this shooting. It's, you know, if we are getting Lamb backstory, if we are bringing Luisa back into the fold and we're getting Shirley and Roddy as, like, central figures of the season, that's just, like, a lot happening and in particular, a lot of excitement. Expansion of Shirley and Roddy, two characters who kind of needed some of that rounding out in terms of the way that they're shown. And so if we also get, like, the CO episode or he becomes a more prominent front stage performer within this ensemble, that would feel a little weird to me. I like him in this, like, the jump scare or in the case of last season, the character who's, like, kind of saving one of the slow horses from themselves by virtue of leaning into what, like, his brutality. Really, he is. He is willing to take that on for their sake.
- [43:10]
A
All right, let's talk about Louisa. Here's my question to you. As. As. As the number one Louisa fan, as far as I know. We'll miss you. Always been Min Harper.
- [43:22]
B
You know what? I would even argue. I would be men in this, you know.
- [43:25]
A
Oh, really? Okay, well, fair enough. Okay. He was working on it. I would like to think Louisa. I would like you to imagine Louisa gets out of Slow Slough House. She's out of the game. She has a diamond hidden in her.
- [43:45]
B
I forgot the diamond. Die in her inner Ice cream in.
- [43:51]
A
Her freezer in her inner. In Her Ben and Jerry's. What is Louisa doing with the diamond in her no longer a spy life that she's going to be leading?
- [44:04]
B
Yeah, when she says she wants to be among normal people and have a normal life, she means sell a diamond and never work again. So I guess that's a kind of normality for somebody, but I wouldn't know it.
- [44:14]
A
Okay. I hope she travels the world. I hope she has a great time. Get out and. And never works again. But actually do, because we will miss you on the show. So please come back soon.
- [44:25]
B
This is the tension though. Like, none of these people should be here. None of them should be in active duty anymore. They are pretty much all uniformly fucked up in addition to being fuck ups. And so like Luisa, one, theoretically taking a mental health break, that would have been a good thing. But two, also just leaving the service healthy for her. If not, as you said, good for.
- [44:44]
A
Us, Hot bummer for us. Okay, let's talk about our guy, River. I'm not done talking about Louisa. I just want to bring river in and say, you know, her, her, her like Thames side armchair psychology assessment of him is that he was deeply emasculated. He's like, what do you mean I won? And she's like, calm down. Shirley calls him profoundly asexual. He's on, he's on the Tesco run, you know, and this is a guy that throughout the series has felt like he's too good for, for Slough House, that he is a fucking hot shot. And here we see him grappling with like 10 Tesco bags and he's, he's on dip, like, right. He's. He's taking care of the spread for the party. He's being dressed down by Shirley. He is being rejected, if you want to call it that, by Louisa. Louise is just like. You read that signal entirely wrong, my friend.
- [45:40]
B
Well, can we, can we stop there for a second, Joe? Look, he clearly was not listening to anything Luisa was saying. The things she was saying were not kiss me in this moment that said the I want to feel something and also grab your bicep move. Like, I'm just saying some signals got crossed. I'm not saying anyone actually wanted anything, Rob. I'm saying that things got mixed up.
- [46:06]
A
Are you taking as she was asking for its stance on this podcast?
- [46:09]
B
I'm not taking. No, no, no. I'm not taking as she was asking for stance. I'm taking on. If you were River, a guy who at this moment cannot make heads or tails of anything, I can understand how he fucked up. That's all I'm saying.
- [46:22]
A
Oh, yeah. I'm not. I don't think it was, like, an egregious move. And you may recall that in season four, from, like, the minute that they're, like, sharing a pint together in the pub and talking about his grandfather, the beginning of season four, I was like, are these two going to get together? And you, Rob, were like, get him away from my Louisa. I don't want it. I made it. I'm not for it. And so when they kissed her, I was like, it's happened. And then it wasn't. It's not happening.
- [46:48]
B
It was not happening yet again. Again, in Rivers defense, I would say I don't even think he wants it so much as he's just, like, out of his mind at this present moment.
- [46:58]
A
And I think the thing that is, you know, the end of season four, however we felt about the finale, I was so profoundly moved by the sequence where he drops his. His grandfather off at the care facility. He talks about, you know, his confusion. He talks about how, you know, he used to tell me all these stories and now he's. I don't know if it's a plot of a movie or not, these. These stories that he's telling me. But even more so than that, I would say, I mean, there's. There's the emotional familial capacity of it, but in terms of, like, River's identity as a spy, if you felt like you could always go to the old bastard's kitchen and make him some lemon chicken and get some great advice on what to do, what the next best move is, now, listen, was his advice always good? No. But if. That. If you felt like, I've got my anchor, my true north, and this is someone who has always instructed me and will always instruct me on what to do, and that's no longer, you know, available to you. And then your dad sucks and tried to kill you multiple times, put a grenade in your hoodie that Louisa had to fish out. You know, like all this other stuff like that.
- [48:16]
B
Like, look, it's. It's rough parenting, but it is a style.
- [48:19]
A
Okay? Rob's like, none of this soft, gentle parenting for me, thank you very much. Anyway, so. So, you know, people are. Are taking cracks at River. Great stuff. Genuinely hilarious for Shirley to call him profoundly asexual because it's Jack Loudon who's about to be Mr. Darcy. Like, we're. This is. That's not who he is, though, the way that he reacted to it. The way that he asked for it by being like, do you think anyone's checking me out? Like, all this stuff is really good, but I just really like where we're finding river here, which is like an opportunity. The Slow Horses don't usually take opportunities, so he may not take it, but an opportunity to redefine himself on his own terms outside of, you know, I am my grandfather's shadow, or I. I do what he tells me to do, or, you know, all that sort of stuff like that. And who are you on, you know, with your own feet under you. And so far, I'm not deeply impressed, but there's opportunities for him to grow. And. And what do you think about river in. In this moment?
- [49:26]
B
Yeah. And his, his evaluation. A lot of areas for improvement, to say the least. I think we. We can go through the list, but yeah, what. What I like about that setup is that of course, river and Lamb are always going to have a relationship. River and Taverner have a kind of relationship. But the central kind of tension points are him in this episode that are with Luisa in what is kind of like the short term dissolution of their friendship in a certain way. Like, she's asking for a level of space and remove not just from the service, but from him that is like, devastating and I would say the most somber use of the Slow Horses score yet. In terms of the notes that we're hitting after she says, like, no, I'll call you. Extremely tough stuff. But also with Shirley, like, their kind of mutual ability to see and call each other on their bullshit, but not recognize any of their own. Stu, I think, is just a hallmark of the human race, to be sure, but also a good framing device for these characters. Right? These are two people who, again, in their way, are trying to help and look out for each other. But river is so abrasive and his bedside manner is so bad in terms of trying to help Shirley that she is just repulsed by him in this moment. And honestly, she's not doing a ton better, but she can see through him in a way that he can't see through himself.
- [50:41]
A
This idea that, like. And it was established, you know, after we lost the world's greatest character, which is Min Harper, once Min left there became this, like, river and Louisa and. And they openly stayed in this episode. We're the only normal ones here, right? We're the only normal one. If you're on. On my side now and you want. If you're rooting for Louisa, river, like, you let me know.
- [51:02]
B
I don't.
- [51:03]
A
We welcome you on this side of the Thames, there are smooches galore. It's going to be great. Anyway, the fact that he's like, we're the only normal ones and now it's. It's him and he's not normal, but that's okay. His River Ness bouncing off of Shirley. I thought, like, the him and shirt, like, we had some questions about. Shirley and Marcus is like a duo. Like, you know, as this setup for her pain this season. It's incredibly good, but there were some. Some ways in which that dynamic was running a bit on fumes and felt like a bit circular. But like, river and Shirley, electric inside of this episode.
- [51:41]
B
Great.
- [51:42]
A
River and CO potentiality. I don't know. That's exciting. You know, like, more jump scares for river from co. Like, what is River? We have yet to see him inside this office without Louisa there to help anchor him. And so he's not, I think, I hope, going abroad again. So what. What is. What is River? I'm too good for this place. And now there's no one else who's even remotely like, diluting themselves on my level. That. That we're normal here. How am I gonna operate in here? That is very. A very juicy setup for this season.
- [52:18]
B
So I'm excited, especially when he's expanding his skill set. You know, we've seen what he can do as a spy. We are now seeing what he can do as a party planner. Again, some room for improvement, but, like, you know, when it's time to get the wattsits in the bowl, he gets the wattsits in the bowl. That's the importance thing.
- [52:34]
A
Very nice. The tea is served. The tea is hot. We're doing it. He's got some notes on. On. On Roddy's quips. He's just trying to help him out. It's all good. As we wrap up this episode where Roddy is being set up for who knows what. Doesn't look good. Be it A, B and E, be it murder, be it something else. I don't know. Seems like a long way to go for murder when you could just like, shake him in the club or something like that. And then Shirley's right around the corner on a pizza delivery bike. Like, do we open next week's episode with some. Some sort of threat on Roddy and Shirley just sort of bumbling in, fresh off the bike, like, you know, with a piping hot pepperoni, like, what. What do you think is going to happen?
- [53:23]
B
I mean, that's certainly been her MO so far. Is just like, go for it and deal with whatever comes as a result of her, like, brash, impulsive actions. I think.
- [53:31]
A
Yeah.
- [53:31]
B
The one thing I'm curious about is, you see, you know, many, many notes about Roddy's interaction with his, like, would be girlfriend in the back of this taxi, for one, when he's leaving and she kisses the inside of a cab window. Absolutely fucking not simply.
- [53:46]
A
No, like, she's clearly on a job and she has this. Her. The character's name is Tara. She's clearly on a job. She's clearly been doing a valiant effort of, like, fending him off from not only, like, sex, but even just, like, making out. Like, she's doing. She's doing her level best. But, Tara, don't put your mouth on a London cabbie window. Absolutely not. All right, what are your other notes?
- [54:12]
B
No, this is how plagues start. But as they are kind of canoodling and embracing and she is dodging his attempts to make out with her.
- [54:19]
A
Yeah.
- [54:20]
B
You. You see him kind of, like, clock something behind her. Like, maybe it's something in her bag. It seems like he has a moment of recognition that he sees something that is.
- [54:29]
A
I hear you. I think I know what you're talking about. My interpretation of that. And again, you might be right. But my. So maybe, like, Roddy's ready for what's coming for him. My interpretation was he was like a disappoint. Like, I can't even get this kiss. Sort of like, what? Like, Like a sort of like, what's going on, but not like I physically see something, but just sort of like, gotcha. She won't even kiss me. Like, I don't know.
- [54:53]
B
That sobering moment.
- [54:55]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you could be right. I don't know.
- [54:58]
B
I mean, look, she does say that it's very powerful that he's willing to wait. Which I think is the greatest tell that we had. Of all the incredible evidence in this episode that she was not in this for the quote, unquote right reasons, but clearly on the job, clearly has something going on. And there just could not be a clearer work text in the world than the one she sends with full punk punctuation about him entering his apartment.
- [55:19]
A
What was your interpretation of her face as she sends. Full send period. You know, full stop. Sends the text correct capitalization and everything. What? How did you read her face as the cab sort of sped away?
- [55:35]
B
Oh, I actually didn't have a very good read on it. Do you have any inclination on that?
- [55:39]
A
Here's two possibilities. One. Yeah. Oh, no, I can't believe I kissed that window. I am gonna have the play.
- [55:46]
B
I. I already feel the flu coming.
- [55:49]
A
It felt. It looked tiny bit to me, like, remorse, like, I'm sorry for the role that I'm playing in this, but I could be wrong because Roddy is insufferable, but I don't know. There's. It felt like, a little bit like, I feel bad for my role in this, but maybe I'm being too charitable to someone. I do, really. I liked her high pony. I thought she looked great in the club. I'd like to see more Tara. I hope she comes back. All right, so we have a couple, like, three little sections that we've been doing at the end of so Horse, previous Slow Horses episodes that we're going to do some versions of today. The first one is Spy versus Spy, which is.
- [56:29]
B
Yes.
- [56:30]
A
Best piece of spycraft. Worst piece of spycraft inside of this episode. So, Rob, what would you say the worst piece of spycraft is inside of this episode?
- [56:41]
B
It's got to be, surely dive bombing a dude from the balcony for pulling a bottle. Like, that has to be it. It's one of the dumbest things that any slow horse has done in any season.
- [56:51]
A
What is clearly an aluminum bottle of beer. Like, clearly, like, could not be clearer. Like, it's not. It wasn't even filmed in a way where you're like, could that be? No, it is clearly what it is. Ptsd. But that is also, of course, my pick. Yeah. Best piece of swag craft. I'm also giving to Shirley for being the person to, like, hunt down footage she has very little information to go off of. It's combat boot focus.
- [57:17]
B
She found the boots.
- [57:18]
A
She found the boots. She has boots on camera, as Catherine says. But, like, she's the only one who's taking this seriously and is trying. And so I'm gonna give it to her for her tenacity in pursuing this thing, which might be, as you said, it might be just coincidence. It might be misguided. But she's on the case. She really yanked that guy off the back of his pizza delivery bike. And I'm for her.
- [57:44]
B
I am with you in the sense that, like, I think Shirley is kind of barking up the wrong tree, but there. I think there will be something connecting Roddy to this other kind of plot and shooting. And maybe it's as simple as, like, look, the dude has been catfished before. He seems to be catfished or being played again. Like, is there a non zero chance that Roddy has at least lurked on The Incel forums. It seems like it's at least in play.
- [58:07]
A
Oh, the unseen dot com.
- [58:09]
B
Yeah, I think, I think if he at least has a username on the unseen. I don't know if he's posting out there.
- [58:15]
A
Arsenthepope.mail.com if you know what Roddy Ho's username is. I mean, I think we've seen his username in the other chat rooms, but what would his username be on the unseen? Okay, this is a Rob Mahoney special. This is something you came up in Slow Horses season four, which is what we're calling the Lamb Shank of the.
- [58:33]
B
Week before we move on. Joe I didn't, I didn't give my best spycraft, which I want to give a particular acknowledgment for a character who I thought just had a real rough go of it in season four. Not quite a spy kind of a spy, but I thought this was a much better Emma Flight episode where she actually, she gets some wins. And most importantly, like, if you don't want this character to look like a Dunstan, don't introduce her opposite Jackson Lamb and just have him run circles around her for basically the entire season and certainly their first meeting. Give her her own dunce to run around. In this case, fuckability. Phil, who simply demands mention on this episode.
- [59:09]
A
I'm so glad you mentioned that. Thank you so much. Also want to shout out Devon Wells, a new character who seems to be like sort of her. Her second in command who also left the force. And my understanding is gender swapped from the book, but it's nice to have like give her someone to work with who is not like Diana Tavener who's being an asshole to her, or Jackson who's running circles around her or something like that. Like, yeah, have some competency coming from, from Emma would be a great start to the season.
- [59:39]
B
So I love that I am. Look, I have one huge question coming out of this episode, which is where is Geeti? What. What's going on with her?
- [59:47]
A
Where is Geeti?
- [59:48]
B
Well, did she, did she disappear? Did she get like funneled away into a back room somewhere?
- [59:53]
A
I think she's on a tough deck desk assignment somewhere just in a back room going through files, which to be fair, is what Giti loves to do. So maybe she's doing exactly, you know, maybe she's doing exactly what she wants to do, which is just.
- [60:08]
B
I do love that for her drudgery.
- [60:11]
A
All right, Lym, thank you for thinking of GT okay, Lamb Shank of the week as we said this is a light Lamb episode, but he nonetheless gets some zingers in there. So our, sort of like our favorite lamb line or favorite lamb insults of the week. Rob Mahoney, what's your lamb shank of the week this episode?
- [60:30]
B
You know, not only was it light for lamb, I thought it was, again, quite kind and gentle by his standards, I would say. As far as actual lines go, his saying that Roddy getting hit by a car by accident would deprive somebody of a moment's pleasure is probably the candidate. But the actual best shank, I think, is the fact that in his phone he has Catherine saved as Old Soak. Like, that's just fucking brutal. And for no audience whatsoever. Like, that's just for him.
- [60:58]
A
Oh, my God. Incredible, incredible stuff. I think him, him telling Louisa, why don't you make a paper airplane or rubber band ball, make yourself useful? Is, is not as, not nearly as good as Old Soak, but pretty good. And then there's a, there's a, A book change I wanted to point out because I, I, I saw this line, like I saw someone mention this line from the book and maybe they'll use it later. But he says our Band of Never Rans. That's what he calls them. He's like, you know, they can't help themselves. Our Band of Never Rans. In the book, he says our band of Jason Stillborn, which I think is perhaps too spicy for Apple TV plus, but Jesus Christ. I mean, maybe you can't have it in the same episode as you have James Bondage. You can't do James Bondage. And then Jason Stillborn's. But that if you had to pick.
- [61:58]
B
And choose, they chose the wrong one. Jason Stillborn is really good. It is spicy, but it is quite good.
- [62:03]
A
It is really good. So maybe we'll hear it later, but I think they rewrote the, that specific line. Okay. And then inspired by our guy, River Cartwright, in his, his journeys abroad in France, we had, we had a, A bit we did last season called Coat Watch. It seems to be springier weather. You know, we're getting away with sort of like light jackets right in this episode. So maybe not so much on the other than, of course, Jackson Lamb's perpetual, absolute disgusting thing that he wears. But Coat Watch, we're just gonna do in this episode as Fit Check and talk about Roddy's incredible outfits. Shirley tore his top, and he still looks great. I think he looks phenomenal. I think he looks amazing. And I'm for it. I'm in favor of it. And I feel very lucky to live in this time make that money back in pussy is what he says when she talks about how expensive his top is. Also, I just the use of the word top is really funny. And then he says, but that makes it so I don't pay for sex. Sex pays for me is what he says to try to dig himself out of that hole.
- [63:21]
B
And you know what, Joe? He's kind of right. It seems within the context of this episode like somebody seems to be paying somebody to like kind of be around him, if not entirely get to definitely the not sex he's having cost money. Yes, that's true.
- [63:36]
A
That's true, that's true. Any other sort of fit checks that you want to call out inside of.
- [63:41]
B
This episode, everything pales in comparison to Roddy who yes, rips his top or gets his top ripped by Shirley. Also gets his like, I would assume like 300 pound headphones absolutely destroyed. But one of the few shining lights in these dark times is the fact that you can get replacement headphones given to you same day and delivered at ease. So, you know, he gets him back. He gets back to his original form and I will say shows up in a different track suit. I know for his date at night. So he definitely has like a daytime nighttime look. I have no idea how many clones. Oh, it's better. Yeah. The first one's kind of like a corduroy situation. The second one looks a little more velour to me.
- [64:18]
A
They're both like sort of Magic eye esque geometric patterns though.
- [64:25]
B
Yeah.
- [64:25]
A
That I had a great time with. So that's bad. Dates Season 5, episode 1 of of so Horses. Anything else you want to talk about that we didn't get a chance to touch on?
- [64:38]
B
I'm just gonna miss this fun office banter, Joe. You know, it's, it's all. It's always such a delight in a pick me up talking about slow horses.
- [64:45]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Light as a feather episode. No real world, you know, connections that we can can make our sign the Pope at gmail dot com. We. We love that email. Please do use it or prestige TV Spotify.com if you prefer. We're covering task. We're gonna watch the Sopranos. A lot is happening on this feed. Also Rob is of course been hanging out with us over on House of R to cover alien Earth. So that that is wrapping up. And Rob, you're heading into NBA preseason content, right? Where can folks find you?
- [65:17]
B
It's already dizzying. Come follow us at the Ringer NBA Show. Follow us@theringer.com for the many, many basketball articles published there. We welcome you with open arms. You know, it's the horses season, but it's basketball season, too.
- [65:29]
A
All right, thank you to Kevin Pooler for, you know, hopping on this episode. Kevin, you're the best. Thank you, Justin Sales for his work throughout the feed. And we will see you very soon. Bye. Adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained. One who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly.
- [66:06]
B
They do not always show up on.
- [66:07]
A
Time, but when they arrive, you notice an individual confident in their contradictions. They know the rules, but behave as if they do not exist. New Team the new fragrance by Miu Miu, defined by you.