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- [00:00]
A
Foreign hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.
- [00:18]
B
I'm Rob Mahoney.
- [00:19]
A
We're here to talk to you about episode two of Slow Horses season five. Rob Mahoney, this episode's called Incommunicado and I have a quick question for you, please. I have a series of questions actually pegged to this episode prompts for you, but I'm also eager to hear from our listeners. So can you tell me how our listeners can reach us if they want to send us emails about this particular show?
- [00:47]
B
I thought you would never ask. Joe they can always email us@prestigetvpotify.com but they should especially email us@arsetimethepopegmail.com with all of their slow horses, specifically comments, queries, theories, whatever you got.
- [01:01]
A
I'm going to start you off with one and it goes a little something like this. Say you're Diana Tavener and you've come home after a long day of dealing with idiots and assholes and you're relaxing in your pristine white gleaming kitchen and there's someone at the door and you don't know who it is. Given that you it would be a boring exercise if you could grab a knife. Let's say the corkscrew that she grabs is off the table and knives are off the table. What kitchen implement? Robini Are you presuming that Diana Tavener has everything in that kitchen? What are you taking to the door with you?
- [01:39]
B
The answer is very easy, Joe. Meat tenderizer. We're just going metal hammer, blunt instrument. I'm not even bothering trying to stab or poke or mandolin anybody like I just want to beat somebody to death if that's what the situation requires.
- [01:52]
A
Okay, brute force. I feel like I would go for the microplanner like the zester and I, I don't know that it's a good choice, but I feel like I would enjoy taking like little, little shreddy slices off of attacker. You know, that sounds fun to me.
- [02:08]
B
I will say this to the one time in my life I told someone zesters aren't really that dangerous. I immediately cut myself on a Zester within 24 hours. So I will not dare question your choice.
- [02:19]
A
That's right.
- [02:20]
B
For fear of what my own zest might do to me.
- [02:22]
A
Don't cross the zester gods. They will come for you. Ok, so if you have, if you feel like you have a different answer for which kitchen implement one should grab when they go to the door, our sign the pope@gmail.com or prestige tvpotify.com.
- [02:36]
C
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- [03:05]
A
Rob Honey, what did you think of this episode?
- [03:07]
B
On the whole, I really loved it. I thought this was classic Slow Horses yet again. And in particular classic like early in the season episode of Slow Horses where we are getting a combination of a bunch of stuff thrown at us as regard to the central mystery. A lot of information, a lot of new characters we're trying to get up to speed with in their various plots to the point that there's so much you kind of can't possibly stitch it all together yet. And at the same time, a lot of Jackson Lamb quips, a lot of Slough House versus the park stuff developing like this is, this is right in our sweet spot.
- [03:38]
A
Joe, what do you feel are like, what's the most important information that we learned from this episode?
- [03:44]
B
I mean, how much do we know about what the group I have dubbed the van guys.
- [03:48]
A
Yeah, they will, one of them at least will burn a comrade if they need to.
- [03:56]
B
We're going to talk about that guy. He had a terrible day. Just, just very tough stuff for the guy who got burned alive.
- [04:02]
A
Dissension, I would say dissension and early dissension in the ranks.
- [04:05]
B
Sure.
- [04:06]
A
Really tough that they were friends. But now they're, now it's business and friendships don't always survive business.
- [04:12]
B
Now they're colleagues.
- [04:14]
A
Right. Let's see, they're speaking Arabic. That is also something we know. But we don't know what nationality they are. And we know that they appear to be behind sort of what it seems to be is that they are finding people with causes and pushing them towards violent terrorist acts.
- [04:31]
B
Yes.
- [04:32]
A
So that they can sort of hide their own agenda behind other people's like front page agendas. Does that seem right to you?
- [04:38]
B
That does seem right to me. And we've seen it so far with, you know, whatever the shooter was up to at Abbotsfield in the first episode and then with this group of like, you know, young, seemingly very eager to disrupt the oil pipeline kind of protesters or you know, environmental terrorists if you prefer, however you want to classify what they're about to do raw.
- [04:56]
A
Mahoney. I saw white woman, blonde dreads. And it was all I needed to see. That's all I needed to see to know exactly who those people were.
- [05:05]
B
They coded them very, very quickly. But, like, I have to say, this kind of. If that is indeed the structure and that seems to be the way we're heading, I think it's just like a really smart way to set up this season in like, a, you know, an evasive philosophy of a potential, like, terrorist or nationalistic group kind of way. It's like, let's take a little of these people, a little of those people. Let's just, like, create enough chaos so that no one knows what we're up to. As you said, that's like a. It just seems like a great way to pull the wool over everyone's eyes, the park included, at this point.
- [05:33]
A
It's interesting because we were sort of thinking that the Abyss field shooting that we saw in the first episode was more of, like, a homegrown. Even though we knew that, like, someone had assassinated the sort of young, angry white man who had done the shooting. But, like, that it was. We were thinking it was more of a homegrown threat. This season, that does not appear to be the case. We don't know the motivation of the. Of the people who are behind this. Something I should say. I'm. I'm purposely staying behind where the show is, but I have started reading London Rules, the book that this is based on. I am really well behind, so I. I don't. I'm not, like, hiding any insights from you or anything like that. I'm staying, like, super behind. But I'll just, like, maybe chime in, like, hey, remember a couple episodes ago, I just got to that part and like, etc. Etc.
- [06:20]
B
That's how I prefer it, genuinely. But does London Rules, in fact rule?
- [06:25]
A
It's fantastic. Our listeners, we loved it here, told us all last season that we should read the books. Rob, as we know, does not enjoy fiction. Something that we look past in our love for Rob.
- [06:37]
B
Thank you. I appreciate that. It's very big of you.
- [06:39]
A
But I do love fiction and I love British fiction. And so I have been listening to it on audio and it's really, really funny. Like, really funny. And that's something that our listeners told us. But I didn't realize, like, how just the way that McCarron does not let his sentence go by without the opportunity for a. A really dry, like, crackling observation because the, like, the lamb isms are there and a Lot of them are the same, but, you know, we're bouncing around from people's point of view, which is something we did, we talked about last week. And so in this episode, we are, of course, as always, on slow horses, bouncing around. Point of view I want to talk about. Well, first of all, my condolences to you. Hashtag, where's Louisa2025?
- [07:25]
B
Yeah.
- [07:26]
A
You know, we are on day seven of this watch.
- [07:31]
B
She's gonna be back. It's just a matter of episode three or four. She's coming back very, very soon. I mean, based on where we are with these plot threads right now, three maybe seems like a bit rushed. Like, I don't know how she would bump up back against any of these PR plots, except save for maybe literally everyone in the story is calling river on his bullshit and telling him to talk to somebody and maybe process, like, one single problem he has in his life. And Luisa is his only actual friend, so I know she told him to stay away, but who else is he gonna talk to?
- [08:01]
A
Okay, so you're saying, Louisa, please cut your mental health break short so that you can play therapist to River Cartwright.
- [08:08]
B
For the record, I'm not saying she should do that. But will river show up on her front porch like a sick little puppy? I think the odds are pretty good.
- [08:15]
A
Possible. Very possible. So, Louisa absent. So let's go to your second fave, which is Shirley. Shirley has a foot chase sequence. I was like, as much as we love talking about them as fail spies, as much as we love watching them fail, I was a little frustrated with our girls, Shirley, because I was like, you can't outrun a guy who's had his back half broken, who is limping and shambling. Now. When it came to, like, the, like, hand to hand combat fight, and she was so outmatched by him physically, I was like, that's that. I understand. But the way that he was outrunning her for way too long, I was like, this man is dragging a leg behind. And. But. But what do you make of the needle being like. Like, so the camera focuses so much on this absolutely disgustingly filthy needle that she jabs at him. This guy's dead anyway, so it's not like, you know, we have to wait to see what the needle will do to him, but will it help identify the body in some way? Like, is there a reason why we should be focusing on this needle? And how could that pay off in the future?
- [09:26]
B
I think the reason is it's disgusting and I hated watching it. And also, it's an ingenious creation to not only have the needle in the leg, but then the skateboard slam of the needle to just, like, jam it in even further. I love your take, though, on a potential, like, identifying mark. Right. Like, these are everything else that Shirley had was like a little bit of physical description, a little bit of scarring or, like, reaction from the bleach that got thrown in this guy's face. Like she just didn't have anything else to go by that would be able to corroborate, you know, a burned body.
- [09:56]
A
Right.
- [09:56]
B
So this is one piece of evidence they might be able to use to connect some of these dots, if not like, in a court of law sense, at least in a, you know, putting together the pieces and the trail of breadcrumbs for their own investigation sense that. I love one bit of excusing evidence as far as the foot race goes. So all of this is taking place after, you know, the kind of various stakeouts of Roddy's place. Lamb has been upstairs waiting on the waterbed, sipping champagne. Shirley has just been on the curb eating what appears to be the entirety of the pizza she stole. So, yes, he has a limp, but she just ate a whole pizza.
- [10:30]
A
Sits heavy. It does sit heavy.
- [10:32]
B
It really does.
- [10:32]
A
Yeah. You need that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle metabolism to house the pizza and then, like, keep going. That's fair. Okay.
- [10:39]
B
Turtle power.
- [10:40]
A
All right. You mentioned the bleach. Our guy, Jackson Lamb continues to sort of like home alone his way through. Through the show. Lest we forget, a couple seasons ago, he and Roddy together, basically home alone, their way out of a. Out of a tense situation in a country home. Here we are in Roddy's well appointed flat. I have another query for you, Rob Mahoney. Yes, this was a freeze framers dream, a delight. Do you want to call anything specifically that you saw here in Roddy's flat? And once you're done, I have a question for you.
- [11:17]
B
Yeah, I have a couple things, you know, as we, as we pan across Roddy's walls, I will say very different from, you know, the shooter we open the season with who has some, like, really troubling stuff going on. Roddy is mostly just incredibly tacky and very strange.
- [11:31]
A
Troubling of a different way.
- [11:32]
B
I think it's true troubling in a way where if this person was in your life, you might have some notes and some thoughts. You know, he's got the tiger print that I would say is close to the level of design you would see, like on the back of a tacky satin jacket, you know, multiple video game posters, God of War Horizon Zero Dawn, Firewall Zero Hour which seemed like a fake video game to me. So shout out to everyone who loves Firewall Zero Hour. A graded comic for something called Eclipse warriors that I could not seem to trace to being a real thing.
- [12:04]
A
I also tried to find it and the closest I could find was the book series warriors as an installment called Eclipse but it didn't seem to be that okay.
- [12:13]
B
Very cat heavy book series apparently that is popping up with the same name but shouts to Roddy for getting that 9.6 grading. Very important for any collector. I support him but really the piece de resistance, Joe like the giant battle axe slash glowing broadsword with light up effects mounted on the wall just for for everyone to see and appreciate. I, I appreciate, you know, the craftsmanship, the artistry. There's a lot of good work going.
- [12:37]
A
On here with the yellow dragon sigil behind it. Of course. I did google giant light up anime sword to figure like to see if I could figure out what it was directly from and I, I came up with nothing but ourstimethepopegmail.com if you are both a slow horses fan and can identify what that sword is or the prop masters just had a really good time making it.
- [13:00]
B
Yeah actually mention that. I kind of wonder if it's from that show Sword Art Online which I don't know personally but I know by reputation and I can only assume there is a giant anime sword in it that might look something like this. So if you happen to be a Sword Art Online fan and recognize this, I guess also hit us up@arsetimethepegmail.com where.
- [13:20]
A
Does that show Air Rob?
- [13:22]
B
Could not tell you. It's probably on Crunchyroll as most anime rests and sits.
- [13:27]
A
I would like to add just a few details to your beautiful list that you came up with here. We've got an open jar of marshmallow fluff on the side table and I say side table loosely because what it actually is is a mini fridge filled with monster energy drinks. Okay. We've got. There's also a head massager right next to the marshmallow fluff and a manga which is Hunter X Hunter the manga. We've got an adjustable multi way tree floor lamp that is the hallmark of every young man who is not quite sure how to light his apartment. This is the way that you go.
- [14:09]
B
It's very true.
- [14:10]
A
Giant flat screen, massive fish tank, LED lights on the wall and then I think the number one prop Set deck element is the pull up bar on his bedroom door frame. I thought that was just like absolute perfection.
- [14:26]
B
We are two episodes in and two separate characters commenting on how absolutely jacked Roddy is. It's just happened like this, the season that we're having right now.
- [14:35]
A
I mean the guy has like whatever a Bowflex esque like situation right next to his work desk. He's not, it's true. He's not skipping arm day. He's not skipping leg day. Our time the pop@gmail. Com. If we miss any, any detail in Roddy's apartment that you would like to let us know about or if what you think is the number. I really do think it's the pull up bar. But what you think was just like the number one best. If there was like an obscure magnet we missed or something like that, let us know.
- [15:00]
B
Especially the most rotty detail of all.
- [15:03]
A
Well, I mean the circular waterbed with the red silk sheets is a lot.
- [15:08]
B
It's a lot. It's not good. Jackson Lamb does not approve.
- [15:12]
A
But Jackson does show up, right? He gets, he gets a message from Catherine that Roddy's with a, with a very attractive girl and he's like, something's not right here. Does show up for his Joe. Despite all of his constant protestations that he does not give a shit about them. He does show up and he does stay and he does defend and what, you know, that's consistent with Jackson's character. But what does that do for you here inside of this season?
- [15:36]
B
I mean, surprising for him to show up for Roddy specifically, right? There are kind of levels to his investment in the various Joes and you would think Roddy would probably be at the bottom of that list. And yet he shows up for him too. Especially when things seem to be like, you know, maybe not fishy in a way he can fully tape together yet, but there's just like enough warning signs that there's at least something worth looking into. And you know, you talked about the home alone that happens with, with Jackson and Roddy as well. And I think there is something to be said about the way that plays into the structure of this show too, where, especially for law enforcement, as we talked about last week, like guns are not a given, right? It's not not a given that a cop or a member of my 5 would be strapped up at any given point in time. And so then you have to be creative, right? Then when there's an assault on Sloughhouse, you're throwing kettles at people Then when somebody is storming Roddy's apartment with a gun, you know, the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a.
- [16:28]
A
Broadsword or a squirty bottle of bleach.
- [16:31]
B
One of the two.
- [16:32]
A
Does bleach come in squirty bottles in the uk?
- [16:34]
B
Apparently it does. I mean, look, that guy, face full of bleach, chased with the broadsword while Roddy is yelling, I believe I am death. Which was a wonderful moment of this episode. Falls off the ledge onto a concrete railing a few floors down. Harrowing. Looks incredibly painful.
- [16:53]
A
Such a crunch. Just like the sound Foley was. I was like, that's a dead guy. And then he got up and he kept going. And I was like, okay.
- [17:01]
B
It's like they broke a whole bag of pretzels at once, right? Right into a microphone. It was tremendous. Then as you said, gets up, runs off. We get the whole business with the needle. Killed by his own friend, set on fire by who he thought was his friend. I'm just saying, like, that's a bad Thursday, you know, like, that's just not what you want.
- [17:19]
A
You mentioned having to improvise with weaponry when you're, when you're here as law enforcement uk, how do you feel about a push knife? Which is what our guy CO decided to use when they went door knocking?
- [17:33]
B
Doesn't seem like it would be terribly effective. But who am I to question the methods of a black site torturer? As far as we can tell from co's background, like, pretty dicey stuff. He seems, look, he knows his way around a knife. I did appreciate that in this moment where he is maybe a little too eager with the push knife to the point of almost like executing a Polish grandmother.
- [17:56]
A
Right.
- [17:57]
B
I like that we see him bumble too. That he's not just like the quiet, perfect killer sitting in the corner like he is at Slough House for a reason. And maybe that reason is that he's pulling push knives on grandmothers.
- [18:07]
A
But I do love that River's like, wait, do you have another one of those for me? Actually, I was unaware of what a push knife was, but it's just like a little. Do you. Did you know about a push knife? I mean, I've had occasion in my life to know about push knives, so.
- [18:27]
B
I wouldn't have known it by name. Honestly. I didn't know it was called a push knife. But this exact. I mean, it pops up in, I would say especially like British coded, like gangster action type movies, but ultimately not really that different than Diana Taverner with the corks? Yeah, like really, they're going for the same thing.
- [18:42]
A
It is. It is, is a beautiful echo on the. On the, like, arming yourself front. We did get an email from a listener, you know, Rob was asking last week about this, the mass shooting that happens at Outsfield and this idea of gun violence inside of like a UK storytelling space. And so our listener Will wrote in to say you requested feedback on the opening scene from people outside the US. I'm British and lived in London for 20 years. My feeling towards that scene and many like it is instinctively that just doesn't happen here. So it feels jarring on first viewing. We obviously have terror events here, but attacks with guns, especially automatic ones like that, feel quote TV and bluntly quote American. Now things are getting progressively grim in the uk, so there's a bit of a feeling that maybe it's inevitably around the corner at some point. So while it doesn't take me out of the action slash show, my gut feeling is always this feels a bit sensational and made for TV impact. So, I mean, I think inside of a show where people are potentially like flying planes towards large buildings in London in previous seasons, or we've got cars exploding like it's an episode of Doctor who at the end of this episode here. Like, we're in a heightened, extreme sort of space. But that's a great feedback from Will. I thought.
- [20:01]
B
It's always heightened, but there is like an echo of reality that happens with a lot of the violence on slow horses that I appreciate how willing they are to fly just close enough to some things to make it feel somewhat recognizable. And we should say, I think, a little bit shocking that this season is airing as planned, given that other Apple TV shows are getting yanked off the schedule because of the way that their subject matter is brushing up against real world events. And yet this one, which opens with the mass shooting, we're just kind of rolling on. I kind of wonder if part of the reason for that is because it is a British property, because it's seen as being like, you know, an ocean away or kind of just removed enough to make it so that it's staying out of that particular, like, version of conversation.
- [20:43]
A
And that's a reference to the Jessica Chastain show that was, like, pulled off of the schedule for now. Apple says they're going to air it later. The screeners are still up on the press site, so they haven't like, you know, burned the negatives and buried the show entirely. Jessica Chastain has voiced her, you know, displeasure with this turn of events. How do you. Do you want to. Like, you brought it up, Rob. How do you. How do you feel about it? Do you want to talk about it, or.
- [21:10]
B
I mean, the only thing I would say about it is if you, as a production company or entity or network or streamer are looking to engage with, like, that show is specifically talking about extremism on the Internet and violent public acts and the way those things intersect, if that's what your show is about. I'm not saying, like, oh, chase the news peg, but, like, you need to not be afraid of your subject matter, and it feels like they're afraid of having, you know, whether good faith or bad faith or not, any kind of discussion about the actual subject matter of the show.
- [21:40]
A
It's interesting, like, I was talking to you a little bit about it and to a couple other colleagues of ours and friends who I used to work with who are all in the media, and there's. There's this, like, feeling that it's. It's a cowardly move, right, to. To sort of run away from the conversation like this. And then I was thinking about, you know, a show we love. Buffy Vampire Slayer, had a show called. Had an episode called Earshot was about a school shooting, you know, that hap that was set to air right around when Columbine happened and it was pulled and then sort of aired quietly at the end of summer and, like, without, you know, any sort of fanfare and so. But is there a different difference between sensitivity, which is sort of what that felt like, versus fear of being targeted? Did they, you know, draw attention to the show that nobody was paying attention to in the first place by pulling it, and now, no matter when it airs, it's going to air with this conversation around it for good or for ill. Is any attention. Good attention is what. Did that show have a chance to be judged on its own merit if it had debuted in the midst of this, like, really heated time? Like, I think it's a complicated for sure question. I don't want to excuse what Apple did, and I'm not. But I also don't think it's just strictly like, you know, a strict kowtow, if that makes sense. You know what I mean? There's layers to it, so.
- [23:18]
B
Well, especially when, as you're saying, there's like, a business decision and an artistic decision that have to be made kind of in concert, but are always going to be at least a little bit conflicting. I think the thing that I ultimately come back to is like. And I think what separates it from things like Buffy again, the subject matter and the themes of the show. This isn't like a fantasy or a sci fi property that's like kind of using it as allegory or kind of dipping into real world events like that is the show in the same way that I would expect Slow Horses and everyone making it to be prepared about a conversation about the way that causes are co opted if that's the way this season ends up playing out, about the way that people can be manipulated by bad actors or public actors or politicians or terror groups or, you know, whatever the nefarious forces are within this season of Slow Horses, like that's what the show is about. So let's have a conversation about what the show is about.
- [24:04]
A
I'm really excited to talk to you about one battle after another. Once you've seen it, can't wait. It's related and I want to hear your thoughts on it. Okay. So going back to CO and River as this sort of team up. Right. Like with the lack of Louisa.
- [24:19]
B
Yes.
- [24:19]
A
River is paired with CO instead. What did you think of this duo?
- [24:24]
B
I did like it. Like, I honestly never would have clamored for these two to be paired up. But I think within, you know, keeping in the spirit of everyone kind of calling out river for everything that he has going on. CO is actually like a really good agent for that, I think, because he's at a bit of a remove. You know, this isn't Shirley coming in with her usual demeanor. This isn't someone who has like been in the trenches with river and kind of knows all the ins and outs. It's just someone who can sit there and rattle off every single time he's fucked up and force him to confront in that moment the fact that, yeah, maybe your judgment isn't great.
- [24:57]
A
He's like season one, season two, Tiger, Team code.
- [25:01]
B
He's been watching the show.
- [25:03]
A
Yeah, he's a fan.
- [25:05]
B
The Stanstead one in particular, where it's like he's almost ducked into the car and then he pops back up to say Stanstead. Just really, really funny.
- [25:11]
A
Really good. Yeah. I mean, this is a character who we were introduced last season but was very background until the very end of last season. We've been curious to see how he would sort of flourished as he was brought, you know, close to the center of the team. There was that like jump scare of him in episode one.
- [25:27]
B
Yeah.
- [25:29]
A
But if he's here to just hone his psychological. Know how as a weapon against River Cartwright. It's very enjoyable.
- [25:40]
B
I don't mind it.
- [25:40]
A
It's interesting. So, you know, someone on the Reddit pointed out, I hadn't noticed this, that in previous seasons, I had noticed that, that their billings had changed elsewhere. But in previous seasons, the opening credits were Gary Oldman, Kristen Scott Thomas and Jack Loudon. And that was like it. And then it was like co starring the rest of them after the opening credits. And the whole team has been moved up into the opening credits, including the actress who plays Louisa. So that's good news for all of us, I hope. And they've gone from co starring to starring. And that's part of that is just like a season five contract renegotiation.
- [26:21]
B
Sure.
- [26:22]
A
Yeah. But I do think that with river, with. With losing the side plot of every season, which is river goes to visit his grandfather.
- [26:34]
B
Yeah.
- [26:34]
A
With. With losing the Jonathan Price angle of it, which at least so far this season, we haven't seen, then it really does feel like much more of an ensemble than like, it's River Cartwright, you know, the two pillars of the government with Dan Kavanagh and Jackson Lamb and also the team. This is like, Roddy is so huge here. Shirley is so huge here. And then co is sort of coming into the fold and it just feels like I, you know, Jack Louden's doing great again. He's gonna play Mr. Darcy. He's a new dad with one of the coolest actresses in the world. Like, he's doing great. So it's not like I'm like. But river is much more of a punchline this season than he has been any other season. And I, And I think that's really. I'm not like, congratulations, Jack Loudon, for, for doing that, but I don't know, it's. It's interesting to me to see him move more and more into the punchline that everyone else is. He's always been mocked by, I think, because his grandfather took him seriously.
- [27:42]
B
Yes.
- [27:42]
A
There was someone who was taking him seriously. Even when his grandfather was like saying, you can't do this, you need to do it this way. He was taking him as a serious person. Especially with Louisa gone, there's no one taking River Cartwright seriously. And so it's just like a completely different mode that Jack Loudon has to navigate inside of this series, which I think is interesting.
- [28:01]
B
Well, and dare I say Louisa most of all at this point is not taking him particularly seriously. I think it's good for the show, though. I think it's good for the balance as Much as I love Jack Loudon, I also love him getting to the point to play the fool in the way that everyone else gets to like. It's good comedy, it's good fun, it's good for the structure of the show. And I think making those elements textual. Like, you were just talking about how his relationship with his grandfather was sort of an anchoring force narratively and something that's like elevating that character in terms of how seriously everyone is taking him. That's the subject matter of what they're talking about is like, since this happened with your grandfather, you are a mess. You are, you know, like, at sea. And you need to settle that before you're of use to anyone else here. And I think Lamb calling that stuff out specifically as it is baked into the world of the show, like, that's a really creative way to sort of tackle that problem and also broaden out the interesting plot line so that Shirley gets to do this and Roddy gets to do that. And if Luisa comes back, she has something to do. Like, it can't be all river all the time.
- [28:59]
A
Rob, allow me to pour you a brimming pint of Red Bull and invite you into disgusting. Into this restaurant that's in a hotel. Is that where that restaurant?
- [29:13]
B
It seems like it.
- [29:16]
A
How did you feel like this location was used throughout the episode as more and more of the team shuffle in.
- [29:22]
B
Thank you. I hate it. I just hate the location. As somebody who has occasionally stumbled into such places. Just like a strong visceral reaction that I would say is not quite on par with the one that Lamb is having in the elevator as the, like, projected floor numbers are ticking up behind him. But it is a perfect slow horses setting. Like the construction of let's go to the place that no one would think Jackson Lamb would ever go. And also Roddy could never possibly afford. Just. Just a nice way to kind of duck between the cameras of where people would be looking for them.
- [29:53]
A
Was that like a deconstructed burger on a skewer? Is that what we got? Okay.
- [29:58]
B
And even, even the chips he gets, I mean, are just like judged up beyond recognition. Just absolute, like thick cut, rectangular chips in some kind of structural Jenga like pattern.
- [30:11]
A
Simply a no doing.
- [30:12]
B
We were doing a lot.
- [30:15]
A
Having the whole team just sort of spread out across multiple tables. Excellent stuff.
- [30:20]
B
My favorite was Standish. Sneaking bites of her, like, foil wrapped sandwich or whatever that she brought from home. Really, really good a person though.
- [30:28]
A
You got to respect it. All right, let's go back to Diana's Kitchen, though, because we got the return of a character. Peter Judd, you know, disgraced politician, is now here in a different guise.
- [30:40]
B
Yeah, I mean, shocking disgrace politician who became a consultant. I didn't know that pipeline existed for.
- [30:45]
A
The Zimbabweans, the Chechnyans and the Libyans.
- [30:49]
B
The laundry again, the laundry list was so great. It's like, I'm here for this one thing, but also I sit on many boards, I'm collecting many fees.
- [30:58]
A
How do you feel about the use of Peter Judd as like, a return character here?
- [31:02]
B
I mean, first of all, I unapologetically love Peter Judd. He is so slimy and such a great character and making him so, you know, he's not an MP anymore. He's not Home Secretary anymore. He's just kind of like, on the edges of the political machine. I really liked seeing him pop up and especially, like, coming up under the pretense of, like, I am helping. And by helping, I mean I'm trying to keep this arms manufacturer out of the news, publicly speaking in a way that, you know, to go back to Will's email, you know, the idea of, like, gun violence in the UK being what it is, and if that feels jarring in and of itself, that's one thing. This is like a crate of automatic weapons and grenades that have disappeared from some kind of, like, arm show. Yeah. Like a very sophisticated gun show of some kind. Where, look, I expect that you can buy hand grenades in American gun shows. I didn't know that it was like that on the uk.
- [31:51]
A
Yeah, I, I, I don't know that I would have ever dreamt of a UK gun show, like, thinking about a UK gun show. I'm just thinking about, like, what does one take? Bird shooting. You know what I mean? Like on a country weekend. Apologies to all of the UK for, for typing you that way. Okay. Something we didn't. I really regret we didn't mention last week that I want to make sure we we underlined this week. Jackson Lamb has a frog tie, a tie full of whimsical frogs. On both last episode, Partway through last episode, in this episode. I don't know if it's his, like, party tie that he put on for Louise's party or what, but I think you're right. I've never, like, I was, I, I was like, has he always been wearing whimsical ties and I never noticed, but I look back through and usually he just has, like, a heavily soiled, dark green tie.
- [32:40]
B
Is goes without saying. Yeah.
- [32:43]
A
So these jaunty frogs is something Entirely different and new. And I just thought worth it noting.
- [32:48]
B
So, I mean, if you're gonna eat half a caterpillar cake, dress the part that's true. You know, dress for the job you want. And ultimately he's doing that.
- [32:56]
A
Did it not bother you? But does it matter to you one way or another that we got. No, we didn't get any Gimbal or Jeffrey in this. Like our two politicians in this episode that matter to you?
- [33:10]
B
It didn't really matter to me as much. I think the thing that did matter to me is that we got so much Lamb and Taverner after, as we commented last time, it was like kind of a light episode for both of them in the premiere. They are both, like, central components of this episode. So getting them is great. And we do, even though we don't get Gimble himself, like, we do get Dodie kind of, you know, chiming in, at least over the phone and whatever PI hired muscle associate editor, she has dispatched to get a quote Claude. To get an official quote slash, really? Just to rattle up, up Claude at the park.
- [33:42]
A
Okay. We have to.
- [33:43]
B
The other park, the actual park.
- [33:45]
A
We have to rewind and take a beat to note Claude's running.
- [33:53]
B
I'm so glad you brought this up.
- [33:54]
A
Style.
- [33:56]
B
How would you describe it?
- [33:57]
A
It's like a. It's like a hunch shuffle. Not hunched. It's like a. It's like a forward leaning shuffle is what I would say. What would you say?
- [34:08]
B
I wrote down toddler who needs to use the bathroom. That's kind of the vibe that he's putting out there.
- [34:14]
A
So Dodie is a columnist. Yes, but she's looking to, like, break news with photos. And when I think columnists, I think opinion writers. And I don't think of someone who, like, breaks scandals. Sometimes it can happen. So I started, like, Googling. Like, do columnists in the uk, Right. Routinely break news with, like, shocking photos, stuff like that? And what I found wrong is a sad state of affairs of journalism, which is that opinion columnists are like, the first journalists who are often sort of gutted from our dwindling print media. And that according to sort of like some J School articles I was reading. In order to make yourself feel more essential, a lot of opinion writers are sort of trying to break news more often. So I was like, okay, I guess I. Well, I don't know. Do you bump on that at all as, like, a columnist trying to, like, break a scandal? Does that sound right to you? Or I.
- [35:14]
B
Well, I took it less as she is a columnist. At a traditional newspaper trying to break a scandal and more that she's a tabloid journalist. Right. So like she's. She's getting comment in the way that TMZ will reach out.
- [35:29]
A
Like in my column. Do you know what I mean? So, like whatever. It's like Dodie says or whatever, you know, like the Dodie reports or whatever.
- [35:36]
B
Well, I gotta say, so far, I really like her style. Is it ethical? Who's to say? But I would read it.
- [35:43]
A
Okay, well. And that's all you need to keep your job in journalism.
- [35:49]
B
You got my click. You know, I want to hear about quite Claude Whelan's, you know, curb crawling. The curb crawling. I want. I want to know the room service order. I want the whole tick tock of the situation. And if this is the state of journalism where I have to go to tabloid columnist to get it, then so be it.
- [36:06]
A
Okay, Sounds great for our profession. Curb crawling, like learning a lot of things about push knives and curb crawling in this episode. Slow Horses they can. Thank you so much for educating me.
- [36:19]
B
PushKnives and Curb CrawlingMail.com. that's our alternate email address that we definitely don't have, but I would like it.
- [36:25]
A
Yeah. Anything else you want to say about this episode before we go?
- [36:29]
B
I mean, I think there's some other Taverner notes, for one. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, Joe, but I don't think we had heard anything about her wanting to potentially get out of the service before in her conversation with Peter Judd. It seems like she's kind of angling in that direction.
- [36:42]
A
Is. Is that what she's angling for or sort of. He was implying that she should be.
- [36:46]
B
He was implying that he had heard, you know, some. Some little birdies had told him that she was asking around, and her implication was even if she was, she would not need his help, which. Fair. Yeah. But you know, all of which is to say Luisa not the only person potentially who's trying to get out of this what seems like extremely shitty way to live.
- [37:05]
A
Do you think it's the fact that she has to report to Claude is like what has finally broken her, knowing she's never going to be first desk and she's tired of fighting here at second desk.
- [37:18]
B
I do think she is tired of it. I think she is also still tired of Emma Flight, who submits like one work order in this episode and just gets red penned to death because it is apparently not what she wants. So she's not succeeding in any particular direction right now. Frustrations abound.
- [37:34]
A
The fact that it seemingly is your sense that Diana and we're gonna get some like Diana Tavener and Roddy stuff next episode. Is that your sense?
- [37:45]
B
Oh, wow. I mean, some. Well, first of all, somebody is going to be kind of interrogating Roddy. I would think it would be Emma.
- [37:51]
A
Okay.
- [37:51]
B
And. And we do get Roddy winking at her on the way out of Slough house in a way that she has to, like, physically shake off. She's like, bothered by this very minor interaction. So, you know, Diana, as usual, will have her hands very, very clean. But you know, how far do the London rules go? Like, I think that's something with these episodes of like, why is it that this group, in their efforts to harness the power of all these other causes, like, what is it that they are getting out of pointing the finger at Roddy specifically? Is it just as simple as he is the most co optable agent possible and therefore they're just trying to make the park look inward and be distracted so that they don't notice everything that's going on? I honestly have no idea. But everyone is looking to cover their asses at this point and we know Diana's just about as pro as it gets when it comes to that particular maneuver.
- [38:39]
A
Absolutely. Anything else you want to say?
- [38:41]
B
I do have one final note. Joe, as you know, as you mentioned, I do not myself read fiction. But you do. I'm curious when we are going to get coverage of Damsels and demons on House of Var. Is that on the schedule already?
- [38:54]
A
Oh, we've already done a nine hour deep dive into Damsels and demons.
- [39:00]
B
I can't wait to dig it up. I can't wait to go back check.
- [39:02]
A
Off damsels and demons hidden under a bunch of cords inside of Roddy's desk. So what could possibly be waiting there that will be helpful for us at the end of the season? Yes, Tune in to find out. Pressytvpotify.com Our Send the Pope gmail.com Meat tenderizers and microplanes. Gmail.com Push knives and curb crawling@gmail.com Again.
- [39:29]
B
The riches that this show gives us. There's just so much happening and you know, we've barely even commented upon it. But like the lamb zingers in this episode.
- [39:38]
A
Oh, we didn't do our lamb shank.
- [39:39]
B
Well, I mean, there's. There are so many potential candidates.
- [39:41]
A
I have one written down though.
- [39:42]
B
What do you have? Including 50 at Roddy's expense. And I think in particular, before anyone else shows up, he is just like Poking Roddy over and over and over and over in a way that I appreciate. But honestly, I would say the best Lambshank of this episode is not a lamb shank at all. It's a Taverner shank. When Peter Judge shows up at her house and she remarks upon, you know, the. I want to just get this over with, as many women in your life have told you effectively. I mean, it doesn't get much better than that, even on slow horses.
- [40:10]
A
My Lamb shake that I wrote down was when Lamb is drinking his quote unquote champagne, and he says, I was saving this for losing your virginity. It'll be vintage by then. He calls it. He's like, this is sparkly water. Anyway, that has been incommunicado. We will be back. We have a lot going on, allegedly. If everything goes according to plan, there will be a Sopranos episode of Hooked, our finale episode. Rob, have you watched any Sopranos?
- [40:42]
B
Don't expose the lack of homework that I have done to date.
- [40:45]
A
No, you will do your homework. You haven't started yet. I have watched one. I have watched one episode of the Sopranos.
- [40:51]
B
Okay.
- [40:52]
A
Which is one more than I had watched yesterday.
- [40:54]
B
You've broken the seal. I thought I felt like something in the universe, like, slightly shift. Just like the air was a little bit different.
- [41:01]
A
Just like a million voices cried out, we're suddenly silent.
- [41:04]
B
Yeah, it's a little bit. Oh, my God. We didn't even remark upon Roddy talking about him and his would be girlfriend being the twin sons of Tatooine.
- [41:11]
A
Like, I mean, and then Jackson Lamb being like, you have the same tattoos.
- [41:16]
B
I'm ashamed to say how much that line worked on me. You know, I was like, oh, this is actually very cute.
- [41:20]
A
It's very sweet. So, yeah, we're gonna do Sopranos on Hooked. Allegedly. Rob and I will be watching some episodes of the Sopranos and talking about it with a very special guest. And then we'll be back with Task as it continues to wrap up. A lot of things are happening on that show and more slow horses and other things to come here on the Prestige TV feed. Thanks so much. We'll see you soon. Thanks to Kevin Cooler for his work on this episode. Thank you to Justin Sales for Tyler's work on this feed. And we'll see you soon. Bye.