‘Task’ Episode 2: The Rat Theory

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast: "Task" Episode 2 – "The Rat Theory"

Date: September 15, 2025
Hosts: Joanna Robinson, Bill Simmons, Rob Mahoney

Overview:

The trio digs into the second episode of "Task," unearthing layered character dynamics, complicated plot threads, and a growing sense of dread as one family and a criminal underworld become ever more entangled. This episode emphasizes the show's deft balance between propulsive plotting and textured character moments, while the panel debates "rat theory," speculates on the fate of key characters, and offers both emotional and narrative predictions for what’s to come.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Standout Scenes and Acting Performances

• Ruffalo Family Table Scene:

  • Celebrated for its “dysfunctional fucked-up family drama with great acting on top” (Bill, 01:59).
  • Bill claims, “here’s the Emmy right here. Yeah, take it.”
  • Joanna highlights Brad Inglesby’s approach: “He feels very confident about character, but not so much plot. He thinks of plot as an excuse to spend time with these characters.” (Joanna, 02:32)

• Character Moments:

  • Joanna loves the specificity: “Like Robbie talking to Sam about making pancakes... chicken petting chickens and stuff... scenes of these two people or these groups of people really revealing who they are.” (02:32)
  • Bill, Rob, and Joanna agree the show’s success hinges on these moments even above crime story mechanics.

2. Family Drama and Thematic Depth

• Handling Grief and Faith:

  • The room dissects how grief pervades the Brandis family—especially after the reveal about the family member’s death (pushed down stairs, broken neck, 05:00) and its timing relative to family milestones.
  • Faith overlays everything: “I’m trying to figure out how to pray for this, and nothing happens.” (Bill, 04:39)
  • Tom’s position as both a father and a former priest providing an “in-between” perspective—a bit of Manchester by the Sea, a bit of The Departed. (29:08, 30:24, 30:38)

• Family Statements:

  • The table showdown reveals fractures: Sarah’s anger and Emily’s yearning for connection.
    • “I would say the most lukewarm hug I’ve ever seen ... maybe downright frosty. And the giant ass glug of wine that Sarah took out of her glass when she was asked, have you visited your brother in prison?” (Rob, 11:18)
    • Emily’s therapy anxieties add depth, wrestling with wanting her brother to get help, but also dreading his return. (27:18)

3. Crime Plots and the "Rat Theory"

• Drug Dilemmas and "Bad Guys vs. Worser Guys":

  • Hilarious, exasperated debate about what to do with 12 kilos of fentanyl (“That’s a lot of flushing,” Bill, 06:54).
  • Bill quips: “I’m putting it in the woods. I’m driving like 10... just 10 miles into the woods and dumping it.” (07:01)
  • Joanna: “They don’t have to sell it because the people they owe are in no position to demand money from them.” (07:06)

• Mayhem and Multiple Pursuers:

  • “Two different groups of people chasing the bad guys, which is a great little movie trope. The good guys chasing but also the really bad guys. Two people in demand. We have a missing kid kidnapping plot. One of my favorites, Sam, a favorite of the Simmons family. We love kidnapping.” (Bill, 08:01)

• Who’s the Rat / Mole?

  • Robust speculation on who is leaking info from the biker gang and/or the task force.
  • Joanna: “Aaron, the Prez’s girlfriend, was cheating on him with Billy… as part of an 'I’ll help you get vengeance' plot, she’s leaking info to Robbie.” (17:36)
  • Further speculation includes DJ Grasanova or Aaliyah on the police side, but Joanna is “suspicious that we haven’t learned anything about her.” (14:54)
  • “We need the mole to clarify their pronouns is what you’re saying,” (Rob, 37:41)

4. Character Fates and Dark Predictions

• Will Sam Survive? A Morbid Running Bet

  • Bill theorizes: “Are we headed toward a child murder in episode five?... Would that be one of the dark moments in HBO history?” (19:59-20:24)
  • Fierce debate (“That kid is so cute. You cannot kill that kid.” Joanna, 23:10)

• Task Force Dynamics:

  • Questions about who is most likely to die, with DJ Grasanova pegged as “definitely takes one in the neck…” (Bill, 23:44)
  • Office romance, work/life balance, and culture are dissected with affectionate mocking.

• Maeve’s Predicament:

  • Maeve’s quick thinking is respected (“she escaped trunk search. That was quick thinking from Maeve,” Joanna, 24:36) but many nitpick her “bringing the kid back to where she works” (Bill, 34:21).
  • It’s revealed Maeve grew up in biker club culture, adding emotional stakes and complexity.

5. Tone, Pacing, and Craft

• Attention-Required TV
  • Bill’s “iPad focus meter”: “This is like—I put the iPad down. You can’t miss anything… He’s putting too many Easter eggs all over the place.” (26:07)
• Transition & Editing Praise
  • “They did that a couple times where he’s like... and they cut to the motorcycle club while he’s still talking. Very helpful for all of us.” (Joanna, 25:34)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Family Dynamics:
  • “It’s easy to talk about forgiveness when it’s not your loss.” (Rob, 29:57)
  • “I would say the most lukewarm hug I’ve ever seen ... maybe downright frosty.” (Rob, 11:18)
• On the Show’s Character Work:
  • “I want Robbie to be okay, and I want Tom to get his guy, and those two things cannot be true. And so I’m on the edge of my seat as to how my heart’s going to be broken.” (Joanna, 10:23)
• On Rat Theory:
  • “That’s my mole theory.” (Joanna, 15:28)
  • “Gingerbeard. Red herring. Yes. See, he—maybe he’s too red. Maybe he’s too ginger.” (18:00)
• On Plot and Tension:
  • “This kid is way more fucked up in real life... I think this kid has developed some bad habits.” (Bill, 09:23)
  • “Maeve has to make a move in this third episode. She’s either got to get out of this or she’s in for good.” (Bill, 44:41)
• On TV’s Demands:
  • “There’s too much going on. He’s putting too many Easter eggs all over the place. And even, like—in the family scene, I lost attention for one second... I had to rewind. I’m like, all right, that’s it. iPad’s down.” (Bill, 26:13)
• On Show’s Violence:
  • “We’re not rooting for people who are bad people. They’ve kidnapped a kid. They’ve just home invasion, shot multiple people, they’ve committed murder, and yet I feel bad for them.” (Bill, 19:25)

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Timeline of Important Segments

• [01:21] - [02:32]: Episode two opening, table scene lauded, show’s approach to character vs. plot discussed.
• [03:33] - [05:10]: Brandis family drama analyzed, grief, anger, and the role of faith.
• [06:35] - [07:50]: Rob, Bill, Joanna debate what to do with the fentanyl and who the true "bad guys" are.
• [08:30] - [10:23]: Kidnapping subplot, Sam’s character and his significance.
• [14:00] - [17:27]: Introduction and development of rat/mole theory—who’s leaking info in the biker gang and task force.
• [19:59] - [23:13]: Predictions and dark hypotheticals (will Sam survive?), Inglseby’s tone discussed.
• [25:02] & [26:01]: Editing and show’s “miss-nothing” demand praised.
• [27:18] - [30:38]: Emotional and psychological depth of Brandis family explored.
• [35:55] - [36:41]: Maeve’s biker club background revealed.
• [40:26] - [41:48]: Predictions for moles and coming deaths, Lizzie as possible mole.
• [43:52] - [44:28]: More animal talk, Sam’s recurring motif.
• [44:41] - [46:12]: Maeve’s likely moves, motorcycle club “primary season,” Sons of Anarchy comparisons.

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Engaging Theories & Predictions

• Maeve, Sam, and Robbie:
  • Will Maeve try to solve things herself, and does her MC past endanger or help her?
  • Bill: If anyone in the task force is going down, "definitely takes one in the neck..." (23:44)
• The Moles:
  • Joanna: All signs point to Aaron (Prez’s partner) as the mole in the biker gang; Aaliyah or Lizzie on the police side (“overqualified for a meaningless role…”).
• Sam’s Fate:
  • Debated heavily; Bill leans dark, Joanna remains hopeful.
• Task Force Death Watch:
  • DJ Grasanova, Cliff, or other less established characters could be expendable.
• Upcoming Plot Beats:
  • Everyone anticipates a Dominican drug lord scene and a two-way glass prison visit next episode.
• Motorcycle Club Dynamics:
  • Ongoing power struggles, possible "primary season" for leadership.

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Final Thoughts

• Approval:
  • All hosts offer a “huge thumbs up,” lauding its Sunday night prestige status and lamenting there are only five episodes left. (46:02)
• Emotional Stakes:
  • Joanna: “I’m already sad at whoever is going to die. And if it is a child... I’m going to be very upset.” (46:12)
• Prediction Record:
  • Bill: “Her version of how Sam Presti likes length is figuring out with the IMDb who’s overqualified for the seemingly meaningless role.” (47:07)
• Engagement:
  • Rob jokingly shares they have secured the “[e-mail]” address, for fan emails. (40:09–40:26)

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For New Listeners

This episode delivers a mix of sharp critical insight, infectious energy, running gags, and expert TV analysis. The panel deftly weaves emotional resonance with plot speculation, all while reveling in the details that make "Task" both agonizing and addictive. If you crave deep-dives with a lively blend of heart and humor, this recap will catch you up—and get you theorizing—right alongside the pros.

Transcript

[Joanna Robinson]

Foreign. Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're here today with episode two of Task. Very exciting, very excited. Bill will be joining us once again to break that down here in the studio. We've also we're continuing to do Hooked episodes. Those have been really, really fun.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just a good excuse to go back to and rediscover some great things about some of the greatest shows that have ever been made.

[Joanna Robinson]

A lot of opinions from our listeners about what we've gotten wrong and. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Mostly right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. And then at the end of September, we're doing Slow Horses. It's a great time to be on the Prestige Feed.

[Rob Mahoney]

An incredible return to Slow Horses for us. One of our most cherished shows. I honestly can't wait for it.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, well, let's get into episode two.

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[Bill Simmons]

The Prestige TV podcast, episode two, Task. I'm here with Joanna Robinson. Yeah, DJ Basanova. What was it? DJ Brasanova?

[Rob Mahoney]

Look, I got a couple rules. No freaking. No grinding, no straddling on this podcast. I think we should adhere to that.

[Joanna Robinson]

What about twerking, though?

[Rob Mahoney]

We'll see.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a long pod.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm Bill Simmons and I love this show. Wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We were worried that episode two would be a. Just keep the chains moving, get a couple first downs. It was not. Bunch of stuff happen.

[Joanna Robinson]

I like that you're still in your football language.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's not gonna stop anytime soon.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna start here. And there's so many things to get to with where this show's going, all the plots that are in play. The Ruffalo family table scene where they were like, here's the Emmy right here. Yeah, take it. Just everything going on in that scene that we have, like a dysfunctional fucked up family drama with great acting on top of all the other stuff that was going. It was just such a great scene. And it's like the kind of stuff if you're Gonna be a really special show. You need scenes like that. And there's all these different things. Oh, what's going on here? What's going on there? It's. It's harrowing. It's. But that scene was great.

[Joanna Robinson]

I. I was listening to another Brad Engelsby interview where he was talking about how he feels like he's good at character, but not. He's like. I feel very confident about character, but not so much plot. And he's like. I think of plot as an excuse to spend time with these characters. So when we get these scenes, like the dinner table scene, or I would say DJ Grasanova and Lizzie scene, or like Robbie talking to Sam about making pancakes and all that sort of stuff, and chicken petting chickens and stuff, all that stuff is what bright uncles Bee is so incredibly good at. It's why we loved that sandwich sharing scene from the first episode. Like, these. Just these character moments of, like, these two people or these group of people really revealing who they are, the specificity of their life. And then there are these, like, larger plot mechanics that just move them around to get us to those scenes. And that's what really hits.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. For someone who's bad at plotting self, admittedly, this is still really good plotting.

[Joanna Robinson]

I wouldn't say. I don't say he was bad at plotting, but he's like. That's secondary to me wanting to just have these scenes where people talk to each other.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, at the heart of this family confrontation, it's like you have basically these two sisters who have very different perspectives on how they should treat the testimony towards their incarcerated brother. And it's like Sarah, the older biological sister, is kind of a real piece of work. And also 100%, I think, understandable, if not justified in her rage and her anger about, like. I mean, Ruffalo kind of lays it out very plainly. Like, this is a man who, like, misses his wife and misses his son, and they're all going through, like, their version of that sort of agony. And it's like you get that consolidated at one table with all these great performances everyone is delivering. And I feel, like, twisted up and gnarled just watching it.

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[Joanna Robinson]

And both you and Matt are like, can I just go?

[Bill Simmons]

You know what?

[Rob Mahoney]

This seems like a very personal moment.

[Joanna Robinson]

Take my cholula and my piece of slice and go well.

[Bill Simmons]

And you have the faith piece lingering over, which is obviously the big picture kind of over here theme for the show. But he has that piece about, you know, I'm trying to figure out how to pray for this, and nothing happens. So we got that answer. What happened to the family member? And we. And we got that answer right through the eyeballs because. Wow. Shoved down the stairs, broken neck.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Pled guilty. Third degree murder.

[Bill Simmons]

It's unclear when it happened, but it feels like maybe like, a year or two earlier or longer.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would say, like, within the last year would be my guess.

[Rob Mahoney]

I was trying to date. Would this be the kind of thing for, again, Sarah, the biological sister, where, like, her mom wouldn't have even been able to meet her baby? Like, is that the kind of timing where it could be, like, especially painful and dicey because of something like that?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, so we have this plot, but at the same time, we have this whole other. We have. We have the good guys, we have the bad guys, but then we have the good guys.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're the good guys. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The good guys are Ruffalo and those guys. Just trying to figure out.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the medium guys are Robbie.

[Bill Simmons]

They're the bad guys, but they're not. Because there's badder guys.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's worse than the motorcycle club.

[Bill Simmons]

We have the badder guys here. Dark Arts.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is the motorcycle club that bad?

[Joanna Robinson]

Is this. Well, is this.

[Bill Simmons]

Brad, do you still belong to Dark Arts or no? Do you still have your jacket?

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you have the tattoo of the jacket on your back?

[Rob Mahoney]

So the tattoo was kind of a deal breaker for me. I'm trying to get in. I'm trying to see what their 401k match situation is. It's all very complicated. I do love, though, with all of these motorcycle gangs, the adorable leadership positions. I think, like, there is a, like, burly dude out there who's like, a pure bruiser who's also the treasurer of the Dark Hearts. And if he can do that, why can't I take minutes? Why can't I help them admit to.

[Joanna Robinson]

The rules of war?

[Rob Mahoney]

I would love to be the controller of the Dark Hearts.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it Dark Hearts? I thought they were saying Dark Arts.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's the Delco accent.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's what it is.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. What's better, Dark Arts or Dark Hearts?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think Dark Arts is a better motorcycle name, but, like, the. The logo Is, you know, the hearts.

[Bill Simmons]

So here's what I wrote down for following plots in play.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Bad guys stealing from even better guys. How do we sell these drugs? Conundrums.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes, a great idea.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you do in that situation, Rob? You just. You'd wait. You would lay low for six months and then kind of quietly shop it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Why do we have to sell these drugs?

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's not get too hasty. Facebook marketplace exists.

[Joanna Robinson]

Why do we have to sell these drugs?

[Bill Simmons]

That's a lot of flushing. It's a lot of drugs.

[Rob Mahoney]

Put it in there. Are you sure the pipes can handle it?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's 12 kilos.

[Bill Simmons]

That's me. I'm putting it in the woods. I'm driving like 10. Oh, just 10 miles into the woods and just dumping it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, exactly. Because they don't have to sell it because there are criminal, like, undertakings where you do have to sell it because you owe that money to someone. You promise that money. But whoever they're beholden to is the motorcycle club leak. And whoever that person is is in no position to demand money from them.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think they're beholden to whoever's leaking the information. As you're saying, Joe, they're also beholden. It seems to like a sense of ret. Retribution or revenge. Like, it. It's not all laid out in terms of the dots so far, but strongly hinted that Robbie's brother was a member of this gang and was basically beaten to death as a result of something that he did by Jason. So it's like you don't need the money, but you need. But here's the thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Flushing the fentanyl.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you're right.

[Rob Mahoney]

As much you did already inflict the pain.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think they need to sell this fentanyl.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's a great call.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think they do.

[Bill Simmons]

Great conversation. It's a social media breakout. Should they sell the fentanyl? But those are two other plots. The who is their leak? Yeah. Have we met that person yet?

[Joanna Robinson]

I have the strongest theory.

[Bill Simmons]

And then also, what is the background of him having a grudge where he clearly wants to start stealing from these guys? We also have two different groups of people chasing the bad guys, which is a great little movie trope. The good guys chasing, but also the really bad guys. Two people in demand. We have a missing kid kidnapping plot. One of my favorites, Sam, a favorite of the Simmons family. We love kidnapping.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, do you?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, just recreationally.

[Bill Simmons]

As a story, as a family bonding experience. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is Sam, like the cutest little cream puff? Of a kid who has ever been.

[Bill Simmons]

On a show just loves animals.

[Joanna Robinson]

He just wants to pet the chicken and get a Batman toy because he completed Reading Club.

[Bill Simmons]

Do chickens have dreams, Rob?

[Rob Mahoney]

I hope we get to the bottom of that. He's honestly like disconcertingly adorable.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm so worried.

[Rob Mahoney]

They cast one of the most adorable kids on the planet as far as I'm concerned. They swaddle him in. In An Eagle's Blanket which with his name on it. Of the world with his name on it. I was curious. I did some digging. Ben Lewis Doherty, the actor who plays young Sam self avowed by his IMDb page. This is a direct quote. A rabid New York sports fan. How does he feel about being in the Eagles blanket? I would love to get his take on it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tough. Here's one thing about Sam. Here's one thing that's always going to be true about Sam. He's going to pop up where you don't want him to be. Back of Maeve's car. Just wherever you don't want Sam to be, that's where he'll be.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a nitpick. I think this kid is way more fucked up in real life when they give the background of what, what his seven years were growing up and he basically the foster people. Foster police had to come multiple times and they pulled him away. He's with his grandmother, had dementia. I think this kid has developed some bad habits.

[Rob Mahoney]

We haven't seen the darkness in him yet though.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, maybe not. Maybe it's coming.

[Rob Mahoney]

What happens if you don't give him his Lego set? What is he doing?

[Joanna Robinson]

What happens if he doesn't get to pet the chicken?

[Rob Mahoney]

Is going to show up dead one day.

[Joanna Robinson]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Protect the Ms. Kid kidnapping plot. I want to get in that. We have the heroine trapped in the middle of everything who might end up taking the fall potentially.

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[Joanna Robinson]

Ma.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm loving Ma.

[Bill Simmons]

I. I don't know what her move is. We'll get to that. We have the dysfunctional family piece. We have a budding office romance. Cuz we need one. Couple cigarettes. Taco. Gwen Stefani.

[Rob Mahoney]

You nailed this one so quickly.

[Joanna Robinson]

I did.

[Bill Simmons]

And then we have bike gang culture and we have solving a crime culture. Just a lot going on. So what's your favorite thing about this show?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think those little character moments that you talked about. I think watching Anthony Grasso and Lizzie talk about his DJing career over a cigarette that she grudgingly lets him borrow because she has enough left in the pack. I think learning that Robbie knows How to make pancakes from scratch without a recipe. I think, like, all these little specific character moments, like the motorcycle club plot. Very Sons of Anarchy. Like, that's not why I'm gonna tune into this show, but the authenticity of the characters and how I care about so many of these characters who are at cross purposes. So I want Robbie to be okay, and I want Tom to get his guy, and those two things cannot be true. And so I'm on the edge of my seat as to how my heart's gonna be broken.

[Bill Simmons]

What's your favorite, Rob?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's the Brandis family drama stuff for me. And kind of how all this unfolds with the.

[Bill Simmons]

With who?

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, who wants to participate and who doesn't. How these people are treating each other like those sisters. I mean, I would say the most lukewarm hug I've ever seen. Frost, maybe at least tepid, maybe downright frosty. And the giant ass glug of wine that Sarah took out of her glass when she was asked, have you visited your brother in prison?

[Joanna Robinson]

Just that Emily clocked. Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who. Who was the guy at the table? I couldn't figure that out.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, he's the attorney. He's their attorney, but I think a family friend. Yeah, they're kind of.

[Bill Simmons]

Family friend.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Give him a heads up.

[Bill Simmons]

He seemed like he had a feel for the family, and he's. Yeah, he was like, oh, boy, here they go. What's the brandises? Here go the brandises.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

I think my favorite. I thought Maeve. Yeah, our girl from Coda. I thought she was great in this episode, but I think I'm the most attached to. Like, there's some. She's too in deep now. Like, she's probably going to jail. No matter how this plays out, there's no way to dump the kid. Which she kind of tried to do, sort of, but it wasn't.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was a quasi good plan. Except the problem is Sam knows her name. Maeve. He knows Robbie's name. You know, he knows too many names at this point. Whether or not he can lead them back to the house is. Is incidental. Here's the real issue.

[Bill Simmons]

He would know, like, I was. Spent some time with this lady. Maeve.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, Maeve, exactly.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who happens to work next door to the place I was dropped off at five minutes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's the real issue with Maeve is that Tom has seen her face now. Right. And there's this other thread of the investigation because they mentioned Billy. They mentioned Billy's daughter, and he's like, oh, I'll get Billy's last name for you. So Tom's gonna go talk to Billy's daughter about what happened to Billy and then be like, oh, I know you. I saw you earlier.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

So you've got to be connected to this.

[Bill Simmons]

The most important reveal we had in all of this, other than that there's a source inside the gang, which I get. We probably could have figured out in the first episode, but they. We. We didn't know what happened to her. Her father. Who's. The. Who's. What's his face's brother.

[Joanna Robinson]

Robbie's brother. Billy's brother. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Now we know. We know the biker gag was involved, and that's going to be easy to move those jigsaw puzzle pieces together as Ruffalo tries to figure out what happened here.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think in terms when you were breaking down the components of the show, Joe, like the Sons of Anarchy type show, that's happening in the background of this show. I love it. In the background. As sort of the mechanism that's building pressure for everybody else. It's like, that's a cool show, but as you said, we've seen it, how that plays out. But what if it's just turning the screws on everybody else? What if that's like the. The element that's exacting violence? It's the element that's figuring out, honestly, the. The biker gang has a great intelligence network all its own. It seems like they know about the task force. They know about Ruffalo, they know about everything happening already.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's why I think we have a rat animal situation.

[Rob Mahoney]

A rat animal? Do we have a snake?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. I think we have. We've got someone inside. We definitely have someone inside the mc who's. Who's ratting on the MC to Robbie. Right. But do we have someone inside either the task force or the police force at large? They're definitely moling for the mosaic. Yeah, they're moles. It's the depot.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I like it before.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, here's my question.

[Bill Simmons]

Try it tonight.

[Joanna Robinson]

Somehow, of the three people on the task force.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Lizzie, DJ Grosanova and Aleya Aaliyah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who is most likely to be informing the most obviously would be Grasso, because he has, like. This is organized crime is his beat. He's the one to give the intel on the motorcycle club, blah, blah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But motorcycle clubs need DJs. You would have the connection.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly. They're not going to straddle and bend and grind by themselves.

[Bill Simmons]

These guys love Kid Cudi.

[Joanna Robinson]

But Aaliyah is so interesting because we know nothing about her.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And that's an incredible actress. And I don't think you cast her.

[Bill Simmons]

To like, oh, the old Joanna Robinson. You're overqualified for this seemingly meaningless role.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, we don't know anything about her. And you know, she was like the lead of Underground Railroad and like in the Woman King. Like, she's a great actress. So like, I'm suspicious that we haven't learned anything about her.

[Bill Simmons]

So who do you think she's actually.

[Joanna Robinson]

Working for, the motorcycle club informing for?

[Bill Simmons]

That's your big theory. We're done.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, that's not my biggest theory.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's one of the theories because I've.

[Joanna Robinson]

Got the rat theory too. That's my mole theory.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, and we're going to hear that rat theory right after this.

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[Bill Simmons]

All right, what's the rat theory?

[Joanna Robinson]

Jason, who's the head of this chapter of the Dark Hearts?

[Rob Mahoney]

The President. Refer to him by his time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Have some respect.

[Rob Mahoney]

We serve at his pleasure.

[Joanna Robinson]

His girlfriend Aaron, or wife Aaron, or whatever. I would say, here's my theory that she was cheating on him with Billy. That's how Billy died. And as part of a I will help you get vengeance plot, she's leaking information to Robbie.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, I like this. Honestly, my antenna were pointing to the guy who.

[Joanna Robinson]

Gingerbeard.

[Rob Mahoney]

Ginger beard.

[Joanna Robinson]

Red herring.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes. See, he. Maybe he's too red. Maybe he's too ginger.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ginger herring.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. I mean, the combination of his sort of, like, outsized reaction and declaring that Sam was dead when they're first having the conversation and then him kind of like starting skulking out of the bar during the biker wake later, it was like, there's obviously something happening with this guy, but maybe it is a red herring. Joe might just be, like, four beats ahead of this show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Aaron, her first question, because she's there when he gets the phone call. Her first question is, do they know who did it? And we're. And she's at the dinner. We get a shot of her when Perry rolls up. Also, again, that actress, she was in Daredevil and the Acolyte. Like, I know her, and I'm just like, why are you here? Why are you here? And why would they make. They go out of their way to talk about how Jason is this really, like, disciplined by the book present of this chapter. He doesn't abide, you know, them tasting the product like he's got them all in line. But he lost his shit on Billy and beat him to death for hours. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

For a mysterious infraction we don't know about.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's more mysterious than the human heart? Than love.

[Bill Simmons]

Rob, how do you run for the president of the Dark Hearts?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it's.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it every three years? Is it every four? Like, I believe.

[Joanna Robinson]

I believe you get your mentor to beat the current president to death, which is what happens.

[Bill Simmons]

That's one man like, a beat to death.

[Rob Mahoney]

But even then, you got to go to convention. You got to get the dark heart. Super delegate. It's a very involved process.

[Bill Simmons]

Gotta go on some podcasts.

[Rob Mahoney]

You gotta make the rounds.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, so bad guys stealing from even badder guys. Ingleby's. Inglesby has flipped this. We're not rooting for people who are bad people. They've kidnapped a kid.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

They've just home invasion, shot multiple people They've committed murder, and yet I feel bad for them. And I'm rooting for them. I don't know how this happens over and over again.

[Joanna Robinson]

You want them to move that fentanyl?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I mean, number one, I'm cheering.

[Rob Mahoney]

For the product to get moved. That's really what I'm rooting for.

[Bill Simmons]

The number one thing they should have done already is dump the kid somewhere. Not murder.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not take him home.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, take him home. But the kid's half asleep. He's like, oh, guys with a beard. Like, he's not going to remember everything. Now you got to get rid of him. Yeah, now he knows. Oh, they have two other kids. There's some lady named Maeve. Robert. We headed toward a child murder in, like, episode five. Because I'm just.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sam's got to make it.

[Bill Simmons]

Are we sure? And would that be one of the dark moments in HBO history?

[Rob Mahoney]

I wouldn't put it past the show.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, it's not like we're gonna see him get a bullet in the head, but it'll be one of those.

[Joanna Robinson]

Am I allowed to spoil Mare of East Town? Spoilers from Air Of East Town, Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Came out, like, five years ago.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, like, a kid did it in Mare of Eastown. So I guess Brad's not above, like, involving kids in dark crimes.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is gonna get to some bleak places. And even if it doesn't happen, they're gonna talk about doing it for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I give you my theory?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a bill theory.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love a bill theory.

[Bill Simmons]

Out of nowhere, a monologue about deer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Episode five. Hey, let's go see this deer that's.

[Joanna Robinson]

Been floating around the floor, cementing it.

[Bill Simmons]

We go in the back. The kid's walking around. There he is. Oh, and then wide shot bullet. Crows scattering.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I love the scattering. Crows scattering.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah. Otherwise. Otherwise, you don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

How else would we know that they're dead?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

And then it becomes like a Godfather to Fredo. Then we go back, and it's. He's no longer standing looking at the deer. We just see the kid in the ground, and we see the guy just.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is it Robbie who does it?

[Bill Simmons]

I think it has to be Robbie. I don't think the other guy has it in him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Cliff is freaking out already.

[Bill Simmons]

He could barely cut hair five days a week. There's no way he's.

[Rob Mahoney]

But, see, I feel like Cliff might be more capable of it, even though he seems like a relative. Sweetheart. Relative to a biker gang himself.

[Bill Simmons]

But, like, getting Bullied into doing it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, just that so far, what we've seen, Robbie not the brightest guy in the world. If anything, the way the show is being set up, Maeve seems like a little sharper in terms of at least coming up with some sort of plan to ditch Sam somewhere to get out of this situation.

[Joanna Robinson]

She remembers the Lost and Found film.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's putting pieces together. Robbie's a guy who's just, like, reacting to stuff in over his head and, like, clearly has a bit of a bleeding heart. And I think that's what's ultimately gonna bump up against this issue of, like, what do we do with this kid?

[Bill Simmons]

He just wants to be a dad and go to some Little League games.

[Rob Mahoney]

Kind of be a dad.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have a question. Sort of be a dad Father daughter dance. That's on Thursday that he swears he's been looking forward to.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Does he make it to the Father Daughter dance? And he goes. And it's like, tender and beautiful. And that makes it even sadder. Or does he not make it to the father?

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's a tender and beautiful. We have that event and we have the potential release hearing, sentencing thing. That's going to be like, episode four.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So that's coming. And then Cliff just has to die within, I think, the first five or six episodes. He doesn't seem long for fandom's odds for Cliff over under episodes. Probably five and a half.

[Rob Mahoney]

Peaches wasn't even on the board to make it past episode one. So he's gone. Understand. And his fiance, Kaylee, and really her dad.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Sam is the. The over under would be six and a half.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think Sam is making it.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think I'm going under. Sam's not making it.

[Joanna Robinson]

That kid is so cute. You cannot kill that kid.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know if I'm prepared to come on here and have the cheery, jokey child murder podcast for episodes.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Inglesby's going for it in this. I think he wants to get as dark as possible and really get into faith. And how far can human beings go?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the feeling.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's what I'll say. I definitely think they'll talk about it. I think Robbie will struggle with. This is the thing I should do. But ultimately, I don't think Robbie is that guy. I don't think Robbie is the guy who can kill.

[Bill Simmons]

I think DJ Grass Sonoma does, too.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, one of the task force probably has to die.

[Bill Simmons]

Definitely takes one in the neck. Where he. He's doing this thing and the blood he's holding, he's trying to hold it. When he did the thing about pizza on Fridays, I was like, this guy's dying.

[Joanna Robinson]

But Fabian Frankel. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I actually thought he might really be from somewhere in the East Coast. And then I found out that he's from England.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, he's from Westeros.

[Bill Simmons]

Rob's from England. Rob uses an accent.

[Rob Mahoney]

I hide it very well.

[Bill Simmons]

Newcastle, right?

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

He moved to America to learn how to talk about basketball in an American accent.

[Rob Mahoney]

Big Louis. Dang guy, though. You know, just a proud culture of British.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're saying someone named Mahoney is from Newcastle?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's probably. That's probably a reach. How do we feel about Maeve completely blowing the whole. Not locking the car door.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not completely blowing it. Because, I mean, yes, she slightly blew it, locked the car, but also she escaped trunk search. That was quick thinking from Maeve.

[Bill Simmons]

That nitpick. I'm not sure the kid's quiet for seven minutes.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, this is the most well behaved kid on the planet.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm not sure that kid doesn't just, like, show up, like, to the lineup of kids and he's like, maeve, the.

[Bill Simmons]

End of the line, who are you?

[Rob Mahoney]

For, like, that's not quite a set piece. It is a woman in a car trying to get out of a parking lot. I thought it was like, as pulse pounding. A thing that we've seen on TV all year, basically, which for episode two, like, we're getting the incredible B and E stuff. In episode one, we're getting these sorts of sequences. In episode two, I'm just like, along for the dramatic ride of all of these. Again, like, very concentrated sequences.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a great show, that one part when he's talking about the. The guy getting beaten to death and brains going everywhere and. And then they kind of seamlessly edit right into Maeve to make it clear that it was.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I was talking to.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, here's the connection with these.

[Joanna Robinson]

They did that a couple times.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

They did that a couple times where he's like. Where he was like when Robbie was talking to Sam. And he's like, my brother used to work with your dad before you were born. And they cut to the motorcycle club while he's still talking. Very helpful for all of us, for sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

And the difference between just like a show with an ensemble where we jump, jump, jump, jump, jump to one that feels a little bit more manicured in the way it's transitioning with all this Stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Remember I had my thing about how much do you look down at the iPad during a show?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Is it like a 70%?

[Joanna Robinson]

Watching the show Neighbors was like, a high percentage.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that was in, like, the 50s, 60s. There's been some other ones in the 30s. This is like. I put the ipod down.

[Joanna Robinson]

Nice.

[Bill Simmons]

You can't miss anything. There's too much going on. He's putting too many Easter eggs all over the place. And even, like. Like in the family scene, I lost attention for one second. And then I was like, wait, is she saying she's the wife or the mother?

[Joanna Robinson]

Like.

[Bill Simmons]

And I got. I was like. I had to rewind. I'm like, all right, that's it. IPads down.

[Rob Mahoney]

We need a New York Times style needle of the Bill Simmons, like, focus meter. 0 to 100 for every show. Like, why. Why does that not exist?

[Bill Simmons]

100.

[Joanna Robinson]

I want to give. Were you thinking about the. Our. Our time with the staircase at all when she was talking about her mom going down the stairs? Flashback, Totally.

[Rob Mahoney]

The titular staircase.

[Bill Simmons]

Not just flashback to the staircase. But will we get. We're getting the flashback episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's gotta happen.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, again, you know, CAS Marino's for a photograph, but so Phoebe Fox, who plays Sarah, who I know from the Great. Another English actress.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's really great. She's not to. I mean, sorry.

[Joanna Robinson]

But yeah, she's really great on the Great. And she's really great in this. But the sound she made when Emily's like, she's my mom, too. And she was like, he's. She. I was like, that is cold as ice. And really. Well, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, my wife.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really tough. Really tough.

[Rob Mahoney]

Especially when you foreground it with. We get this sequence earlier in the episode of Emily in therapy, and she's talking about, like, the thing that she's most. The thing that she's afraid of is that her brother's gonna be in prison and not get help for the mental health problems he clearly has and has been struggling with for a long time. The thing that she's even more afraid of is that he's gonna come back to their home in five years, which is, like, as soon as he could get out of prison.

[Joanna Robinson]

Which is what Sarah lays out is like, can you imagine? So they're on the same page but can't communicate that to each other. And also the way in which Emily is, like, thirsty for family. Like, the way that she holds her nephew on her lap like that baby. It's just like she wants to be connected to her family. I was really happy that Tom went and found her and was sober enough to find her and take her home.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, as far as, like, little callbacks and grace notes go. Like her going to the dugout where her brother was after that previous blow up when they were kids. Like, yeah, just these little thing that sort of wrenches your heart.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what I realized watching this episode? Mark Ruffalo is really good at playing these guys, that their life is just kind of beating them down. They had that one wide shot of him just mowing a sandwich at his desk. That's just perfect.

[Joanna Robinson]

The sandwich performance. Not even chewing. Not even chewing, like, the first three bites before he's on to the fourth, having no napkin. So having to use the wrapper to, like, he had someone is like sauce on his glasses. It was a whole.

[Bill Simmons]

And we remember that in Spotlight. He's great in Spotlight. But the pizza scene. Yeah, when that guy. When he comes by and he's just. He hasn't, like, decorated his apartment yet. And then the guy's like, I brought you a pizza. He's, oh, thank you. Yeah, he's just good at playing, like, these kind of life beat me down losers.

[Rob Mahoney]

When he and Grass are having the conversation in the car about his previous life as a chaplain, you seem like when you. When you go to these places, people want to know why God let it happen. I mean, was God the original. He knew when he let it happen.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's been there the whole time.

[Bill Simmons]

He knew crazy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's a really, I think, key piece of Tom Mentel that we get in that car scene is that it sounds like he left the priesthood for his wife in 2003, in part, at least. So in. It's like The Fleabag Season 2. What if he made the other choice? But it's like, that's how important Susan was to him, is that he left his, like, vocation that he had studied for to marry her and she's dead. And, like, he's. He's protective of Emily and he's frustrated with Sarah for her behavior at the dinner table. But he is also not making that family statement, not visiting his son in jail. You know, so he is in. In between Emily and Sarah in terms of, like, he's defensive of him. He says, I miss my son, but he won't go see him, and he won't make a statement on his behalf. And he's struggling with it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought that it's easy to talk about forgiveness when it's not your loss speech in that family meeting. Like, that is heavyweight, heavyweight Shit. And it's so funny. Like, all of these ways in which he is kind of a mess. He's also the person best positioned to sort of hold the family together by the nature of his role in it. We talked about you can count on me last week. He's almost doing like, the Laura Linney role where it's like he's falling apart, but he's trying to get his arms around this thing that you just cannot get your arms around.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a slight whiff of Manchester by the Sea in this.

[Disney Advertiser]

In the show for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Where he's. Ruffalo in like, episode six is just gonna do the. I can't beat it. I can't.

[Joanna Robinson]

We need to get him.

[Bill Simmons]

We need to get him a hoodie.

[Joanna Robinson]

He can't do that in a button down.

[Rob Mahoney]

He has to do it back in the vhs. Being Heat meets Manchester by the Sea for this show is accurate, but with.

[Joanna Robinson]

A little signs and Departed and sprinkled in. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And like, whatever. What biker gang movie are we? I guess Sons of Anarchy with Thorn there. Yeah. So there's a lot of stuff on the table that I feel like there's only seven episodes. Like, we're already 27 of the way.

[Rob Mahoney]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

Through here. Every time we're in the biker bar, I'm in.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Did you. What? Were you a Sons of Anarchy fan? Did you watch that show?

[Bill Simmons]

I never did. What did I miss out on?

[Disney Advertiser]

Should I watch it?

[Joanna Robinson]

The first couple seasons were absolute.

[Bill Simmons]

I love that you watched that. But not the Sopranos. I just. I'll never figure out.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was on after the Sopranos. The Sopranos. I was in college. I was not watching tv.

[Bill Simmons]

I like the whole. I like the whole hierarchy. I like how they have their own little. Their gimmicks and their cute little matching vests. Like when they go see Peaches. Yeah, I guess. Ex.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, Kaylee.

[Bill Simmons]

Tough one. Which I had to re. Watch. It was the. It was the guy that. That was next to her.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, yeah. Her dad.

[Bill Simmons]

They didn't do a good job. They should have showed him opening the door. So you specifically knew it was her, but I guess you're trying to infer it's her dad?

[Joanna Robinson]

I guess.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm confused about the timeline. So she and her dad just moved there a couple weeks?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think she just moved there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, and her dad's there to be with Peaches. Okay, so she was in the home that she shares with Peaches.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And her dad was like, I'm here to help you through this. Time. But also, I fucking told you so. And I knew that guy was a piece of shit.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's hard because he's not 100% wrong. Like, peaches did not seem like the best, most upstanding citizen. But also, this is a devastating situation for our girl Kaylee.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think they're surviving this evening, Shane.

[Bill Simmons]

Kaylee, maybe that has to say bloodbath.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Just nitpick. I thought that was a pretty bad actress acting performance. It was like, what are you doing? Everybody else is up.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, like, what kind of girl is gonna be with a guy like Peaches? That's the question you have to ask yourself.

[Bill Simmons]

I need a little more medica. One more take.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's also tough being the one. The one person in the lineup who's like, everyone else is delivering on such a high level. If you're even just good, you're gonna get okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

I had one. I had a performance beat. Question.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Perry, who plays like, you know, he's on the board that sits above Jason Founding. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

They got cute little patches and everything.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just love it.

[Joanna Robinson]

The 12 that he. When he grabs Jason's face and he's like, it's a kid. That. That felt a little overwrought to me. A little overwrought moment.

[Rob Mahoney]

Interesting little overacting. Never on a show like this.

[Joanna Robinson]

That being said, when he's talking to the bartender.

[Rob Mahoney]

Love that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Loved that moment. She's like, who'? Asking you? I'm cleaning my toilet.

[Bill Simmons]

Great nitpick. I just think the whole police lineup.

[Rob Mahoney]

With Maeve poorly handled.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would still look in the trunk of her car.

[Bill Simmons]

Question. So I'm like, wait a second. So why'd you call us? What's going on with you? Like that. I just feel they've been looking. This is the biggest story in the whole area.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I don't think that they know that she's the one who called.

[Rob Mahoney]

They don't.

[Joanna Robinson]

She was just saying, oh, I saw a kid that looked lost. And then she's like, that's the kid that looked lost. And they just assume bad, bad move from the cops. But just assume that that's the same kid.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm pulling her aside for 15 more minutes.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree.

[Rob Mahoney]

That would be good police work.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree with you.

[Bill Simmons]

They also know the call came from that store.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, they know it came from a cell phone.

[Rob Mahoney]

From a cell phone Geo located within a certain radius.

[Bill Simmons]

Her.

[Joanna Robinson]

Her co worker, though, is like, what's going on? The girl with the red braids is.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, that ZD invitation Has been rescinded.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought everything about the plan, horrible. She.

[Rob Mahoney]

You thought that was a bad.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought she brings the kid right to where she works, like, pick another shopping center.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think because she knew that she could get to a phone that she wasn't linked to.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes, because how else are you getting to a phone that wouldn't be, like, on a surveillance camera?

[Joanna Robinson]

Payphones aren't a thing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not anymore.

[Joanna Robinson]

So what phone do you call?

[Bill Simmons]

I miss payphones.

[Rob Mahoney]

Would you see a lot of burners?

[Bill Simmons]

Great times, you know, you.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, the drug dealers buy their burners on this show for sure, but Maeve does not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

How about buy a burner?

[Rob Mahoney]

But then you're on camera buying a burner. Is that enough? I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think that stores that sell burners should not have cameras. That's what I think.

[Rob Mahoney]

Counterproductive to business, at minimum.

[Bill Simmons]

What'd you think of the ending with she brings the kid back.

[Joanna Robinson]

What have you done to us?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Double somebody. A kid getting carried little. What have you done to us? I thought was good.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, I think it's really interesting to know that Maeve was brought up in the motorcycle club.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, not just that Billy was connected, but, like, she knew Joanne. She knew Derek when Derek. When Robbie, with his mask on, is threatening Derek, and. And Derek, the guy who got his, like, brains blown out, and he's like, I know your voice. Why do I know you? So it's not just that, like, Maeve was brought up in the motorcycle club, but, like, they knew Robbie knows these people. Yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And how quickly Maeve puts together exactly who Sam is. Yeah, it's like 12, 12 minutes, basically, between the moment where Robbie is selling her this bill of goods. Oh, this is my friend, my friend's kid. His mom is sick. Yada, yada, yada. And it's like, oh, no, we're not spending even an episode believing that it is sorted and done. And we are trying to get this kid out of the house. Great Googling.

[Joanna Robinson]

But I think that knowing that Maeve grew up in that culture and also knowing, you know, the title of the episode is Family Statements, which deals directly with Sarah and Emily and Tom and that table scene. But, like, the way that the motorcycle club thinks of everyone in the club as family. So Billy was. Maeve was family at a certain point. I think those ties are really interesting. We were wondering, like, how closely connected is Maeve to all of this now? She's just in the heart of this story. She's from the motorcycle club culture.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can't escape it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Maeve over under six and a half episodes. I think Maeve lives.

[Rob Mahoney]

I really hope she makes Maeve and.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sam and the chicken all live. That's how I feel.

[Rob Mahoney]

You would have said the same thing in Mare of East Town about corresponding characters and been very wrong.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, that's true.

[Bill Simmons]

Look, Robbie, there's a deer.

[Rob Mahoney]

Bill, we need to get you on the record. I thought one of my favorite moments of this is when Robbie and Cliff are waiting at the restaurant for their source to show up. No shows. And you get this, like, longing Pearl Jam look with a woman at the bar.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, big deal for them to greenlight a song. Their faces are stingy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Even like in the 30 for 30 last dance, like, just getting them to use present tense for the ending. It took forever.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you think they got final cut on this?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, there was one other Pearl Jam show where they used some of the music for. I think they have to, like the creator or have some sort of. Some sort of relationship. But yeah, I was like, oh, that was working nicely. Yeah, that was good. I loved it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Another clue for my theory that it's the girlfriend is the molecule. They don't say, he's not coming. They say, not coming. Both Robbie and Cliff go, not coming. Not he's not coming.

[Rob Mahoney]

We need the mole to clarify their pronouns is what you're saying.

[Joanna Robinson]

If they said she's not coming, we would know. So they just go, not coming, not coming.

[Bill Simmons]

So characters we haven't met yet. Have we met the Dominican drug lord.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just a photo of them. Freddy Frias. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So Freddy Freeas. There's gonna be a Freddy Freeas scene. And then he kind of has to work with the bike gang, even though they're a competition, which I always enjoy. I like when the competition. Somebody's breached.

[Joanna Robinson]

By the way, the guy who plays Perry was on a major character on Sons of Anarchy. So he knows how to do motorcycle club storyline.

[Bill Simmons]

And then we. And then we have. We're going to get a flashback with the lady from the killing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Did I ever tell you how a buddy of mine from high school who moved out here to become an actor.

[Joanna Robinson]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

In the 90s. Might have bartended in a couple Melrose Place episodes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, nice.

[Bill Simmons]

The bad just never.

[Joanna Robinson]

I've seen Melrose Place as well, but never really happened. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But his big. His big break was Michelle Pfeiffer in what Lies Beneath Us.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What Lies Beneath. He played her first husband before Harrison Ford. Picture in a photo of them in A photo.

[Rob Mahoney]

And we were like, this is amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

This is as good as it is. We were so excited. So that was the peak. But he was married to Michelle Pfeiffer in a movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not bad.

[Bill Simmons]

You're telling your grandkids about that?

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely. The fact that you were cast at all.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So anyway, my point is, usually it's people like my old friend Scott in those pictures, not the lady who's the lead of the killing, But I think we're going backwards.

[Rob Mahoney]

Big questions about that. I also have questions about the task force. Are they living in this mold infested house?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think they're working out of it.

[Rob Mahoney]

But they were working late, sleeping there. And it seemed like when Ruffalo leaves for the night to deal with his family situation, they're still there. They're just kind of hanging, having cigarettes, like, monitoring calls. Like, are they just sleeping here?

[Joanna Robinson]

I hope not.

[Bill Simmons]

They'll be knocking some boots soon.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, he said take a bedroom as an office. Not like, pick a bedroom as a bedroom. Not like, this is the real world house. And first. First come, first bedroom sort of thing.

[Bill Simmons]

This should have seen, like, in the real world when they all run into each other.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dibs. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna take that room with the mold.

[Rob Mahoney]

I very nearly wanted to pick nits on DJ Grossanova's quick ID of Lizzie's. I would say just horrendous Gwen Stefani rendition with the headphones on. There is no way a normal human being could have made that call. But then. But wait, there's an explanation for everything.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think they could clear the song.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Gwen Stefani song.

[Bill Simmons]

It was weird that we couldn't hear this song.

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought it was really funny.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that was fun.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think she's great.

[Bill Simmons]

Lizzie. I'm saying, no thanks.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm a big Lizzie fan.

[Rob Mahoney]

I gotta say, she's been fun so far. We should also say I was heartbroken to not get the snickerdoodle223mail.com email address for the show. We did, however, lock down DJ Grossanova. Mail.com if you have any questions. Did you really show? Email us.

[Joanna Robinson]

I texted Rob last night. I was like, should we get this email? And he sent me proof that he already got it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I was lying the second the words.

[Bill Simmons]

Came out of his Top of your game. So grass and ova.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's correct.

[Joanna Robinson]

Grass and ova. Two S's?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, two S's.

[Rob Mahoney]

DJ grass. A n o v a gmail.com or as always, prestigetvpotify. Dot com.

[Bill Simmons]

Great job by you. Predictions. What do we got? I guess the ones you already made.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I'm so shaken up on the mole slash rat situation because I really did think it was ginger beard guy. But I. I think Joe's really onto something. I think with the. With the girlfriend plug. That makes a lot of sense to me.

[Bill Simmons]

So your prediction is a prediction.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, what else?

[Bill Simmons]

What else.

[Rob Mahoney]

What else do we got? What else do we have to predict?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's. It's the. It's the mole. Like, what's the source of intel from the police, from the task force to the motorcycle club?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the most important thing that's going to happen in episode three is this another double murder that we're now going to have with the people getting killed. So they're going to be. Obviously, they went and interviewed those people, so now they're going to be like, oh, shit, this went to a whole other level.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm actually going to say Lizzie is the mole who's leaking information to the motorcycle club. And Aaliyah is so well positioned at this point by virtue of how little we know about her to be the person who catches the molecular. Like she's gonna be the person who starts putting together the weird clues. Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Okay. Gotcha.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, that reminds me of another small nitpick. So we have a triple murder or a quadruple murder. Every time I drink this out of, my stomach growls.

[Joanna Robinson]

By the way, that's an anti endorsement for Lacroix.

[Rob Mahoney]

So we've got one. We got a mother murder, third degree murder by Ethan. Then we have the four dead bodies in the house and then the kidnapping.

[Bill Simmons]

Right, but we have four dead bodies of kidnapping and now two more murders. @ what point are they like, maybe Mark Ruffalo's character isn't. Maybe Tom Brandis isn't the guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

And Tom's like, guess what? I agree. Take me off the case.

[Bill Simmons]

Why am I here?

[Rob Mahoney]

Even the motorcycle gang and the big guns.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, well, they're underestimating him. Clearly they don't know. But our superpower.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't. I think they're probably.

[Rob Mahoney]

Which is vodka and God.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that is another good one. When the bad guys in the movie are like, oh, that guy's doing it. He sucks.

[Rob Mahoney]

Don't even worry about him.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't have to worry about him. It's like, no, you're gonna have to worry about him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah. They're like, I just. He just wants to eat his sandwich. It's like, no, he wants to Eat his sandwich and solve crimes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Cannot blame him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Both.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a small prediction. I think we see the Dominican drug lord in episode three. I think there's a showdown.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I think.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. For sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And is it an actor We've heard of Elvis Moscow. What's our scouting reporter on Elvis?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, he. I have seen him in some things. Not a ton of things, but yeah, he's been around.

[Bill Simmons]

So maybe it's a one scener.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is he the drug dealer they have to go to with the fentanyl because they have so much weight? Or is that a different guy? We have yet to say no.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's the guy.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's the guy. The Dominican drug dealer is the guy that now Robbie and Cliff need to go to to unload the fennel.

[Joanna Robinson]

According to the biker gang.

[Bill Simmons]

And I think we get murderous. Not on my med. Brother in jail. I think we get our first two way glass scene. And I don't know who goes visit him. It's probably the adopted doctor.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sounds like Emily's the only one who will.

[Bill Simmons]

We're probably due for that. They don't want me to stick up for you.

[Joanna Robinson]

They did physically describe him. He's skinnier, his hair is shorter. It's gonna surprise you to see him.

[Rob Mahoney]

Going through some stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Some solid points about what it's. What's it going to be like in five years when he's just back in the room upstairs making cereal?

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm saying we can let him out of jail and we don't have to invite him back into the family home. There's like a middle ground. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe a hotel. Those hostile hotels.

[Joanna Robinson]

Forgiveness can have a ceiling to it. It could be. Not in my backyard. You know what I mean? Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

And more strong stance. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm nimbying on.

[Rob Mahoney]

Third degree murder.

[Bill Simmons]

More animal talk with Sam. I think he's got some thoughts on rabbits.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh my God. Why does it want to talk to deer? Especially. He said especially instead of especially. He's like especially.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's when they know they got you when they threw in the especially. That's a writing feature.

[Bill Simmons]

A bald eagle scene.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Something. A majestic animal encounter will be coming. Maybe it's a deer. Maybe not.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe some. There's an interaction with the other two kids scene. Although one of them's older. But there's another kid that's around his age.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who loves a fart joke.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who loves it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely.

[Bill Simmons]

But I think Maeve has to make a move and what her. Her move in this third Episode. She's either. She's either got to get out of this or she's in for good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Now I'm worried that she's gonna go to the motorcycle club at some point. That's what I'm.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's gonna try to solve things herself.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Talk to someone she thinks is sympathetic. In the motorcycle club. The woman bartender. The woman that I think is the. The rat.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're just called bartenders, Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just don't know the character's name. I didn't say female bartender.

[Bill Simmons]

I liked it. Also, we might have a die card. Dark.

[Joanna Robinson]

He calls her D. I don't know what that's short for.

[Bill Simmons]

We might have a dark hearts. Primary. It might be primary season. It's October. The show's running.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, that's what Perry's saying. Perry's like, Jason, you're. You're.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're at risk.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. You are at risk.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're going to be impeached, beached if you keep this up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who's gonna replace him? Ginger beard. There's not a lot of good. There's. No.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, you know what? It's. It's a common problem. We're finding out the pipeline of supplanting.

[Joanna Robinson]

Derek was well positioned, and now he's gone.

[Bill Simmons]

Sons of Anarchy have, like, that hierarchy thing with a president and all that stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think I would like that show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, you would? Ron Perlman.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Charlie Hunnam.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, it's great.

[Bill Simmons]

I missed out on that one.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's never too late.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's prospects, there's. I know a lot about motorcycle culture. I watched every single episode of that show, and now I know why. It was for this moment.

[Bill Simmons]

As you prepare.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. So tasked through two episodes. You're still a plus.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Huge thumbs up. Just the kind of premiere Sunday night entertainment we deserve.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm going to pull a Molly Rubin and say, I'm already sad that we only have five more episodes left of this show.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm already sad at whoever is going to die. And if it is. If it is a child. If it is. If Sam dies before he gets his Batman Lego set, I'm going to be very upset.

[Bill Simmons]

Do I get enough credit for breaking Joe from watching four episodes ahead of time? We need that. This is better, right? This is a better process for the pod. Although I think you nailed, like, five of the predictions concerning Inglesby is watching this going, God damn it. This Joanna. Joanna Robinson. She was in the room with me.

[Joanna Robinson]

HBO can tell when I watch screeners when I haven't, so they know I'm telling the truth. I've only watched two episodes.

[Rob Mahoney]

She hasn't seen it, but she has been skulking around Brad Inglesby's house, watching the boards, seeing what's up there, going.

[Joanna Robinson]

Through his track, you know, it's the.

[Rob Mahoney]

Only way to know for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Her version. I'm going to go basketball nerd for a section. Her. Her version of how Sam Presti likes length is. Is figuring out with the IMDb who's overqualified for the seemingly meaningless. That's her, Sam Presti, who's falling into.

[Rob Mahoney]

The Roger Ebert economy of characters. You know, there's just too many people here are going to shake loose.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Disney Advertiser]

Why is that?

[Bill Simmons]

For this?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You've taught me that. All right, Prestige tv. Thanks, Justin. Thanks, Kai. We'll be back probably on Zoom for episode three. Sounds good, but we'll have to reconvene for the last two. I mean, Jesus. Yeah, we need you the first six screeners.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then I need your sympathy for us. When Sam does die and you can gloat and say you were right, but also I need your sympathy, there'd be.

[Bill Simmons]

No gloating, more of a like, look, I'm a veteran. In the process, a deer monologue caught my. Raised my hackles.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is the thing that I found podcasting with you, is that you will say things. I'm like, there's no way that can happen. And then it happens. So that's. That's the bill effect.

[Bill Simmons]

He's not making it. We're. We're going dark all the way through.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Protect Sam.

[Rob Mahoney]

Meanwhile, I'm just Anthony Grasso over here. I'm just playing Cal. I'm just bumping Calvin Harris, hoping that it does the job.

[Bill Simmons]

Just having pepperoni pizza on Fridays. You're just doing. Living your life.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Good to see you both.

[Rob Mahoney]

Likewise.

[Disney Advertiser]

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