‘Task’ Episode 4: All Roads

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast

Task Episode 4: "All Roads"

Original Air Date: September 29, 2025
Host: Bill Simmons, with Rob Mahoney & Joanna Robinson

---

Overview

In this episode, Bill Simmons, Rob Mahoney, and Joanna Robinson dissect Episode 4 (“All Roads”) of the television series Task. The trio explores what they see as a transitional, middle-of-the-season episode—one they acknowledge as the "worst" of the four aired so far, but one that still earns high marks for its storytelling and performances. Their conversation touches on character investment (especially the comparative lack of Maeve), the role of family and community, narrative structure (notably the flashback), and the ongoing “mole” mystery within the police force. The hosts also debate the functionality of therapy scenes and dream sequences in prestige TV, break down the pivotal events and revelations of the episode, and end with predictions and power rankings as the show enters its back half.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Episode Structure, Tone, & Pacing

• Transitional Feel: The hosts agree this episode feels like a pivot point leading toward the show’s endgame—propulsive, but with a sense of “moving pieces into place.”
• Less Maeve: A recurring critique is the diminished presence of Maeve, a character the group feels most emotionally invested in.
• Flashbacks: The midseason flashback is discussed as a significant narrative choice, notable for its emotional resonance and frequent use of Allman Brothers music.
• Nitpicks: The group openly discusses elements that didn’t work: scenes with Emily ("Ruffalo's daughter"), and what some see as meandering or less consequential subplots.

Quote:
“Probably the worst episode of the four, but yet I thoroughly enjoyed it and I give it…at least an A minus.” – Bill Simmons [00:25]
“I think not enough Maeve. I think I'm most emotionally invested in Maeve, and I think the lack of Maeve makes this...I still liked this episode.” – Joanna Robinson [00:36]

---

2. Thematic Deep Dive: Family, Community, & Outsiders

• Family as Anchor & Prison: Joanna and Rob note how themes of being inside versus outside family and community lines echo across every plotline, framing central character struggles.
• Subplot: Emily’s Monologue: The discussion turns to Emily’s feelings of gratitude and alienation in her adopted family, which some panelists felt didn’t quite connect.
• Legacy of Daughters in Dramas: They compare Emily’s arc to that of teenage daughters elsewhere in prestige TV, referencing Homeland and its notorious “daughter subplot” pitfalls.

Quote:
“I think the theme of what she was talking about…that works in every plotline about family and community and what it means to be inside of that community and what it means to be outside that community…” – Joanna Robinson [02:42]

---

3. Therapy Scenes and Dream Sequences in Prestige TV

• Mixed Feelings: The hosts critique therapy and dream sequences as overused expository tools in modern TV, with nods to The Sopranos as a polarizing example.
• First-Time Watch of The Sopranos: Joanna and Rob reveal they are about to start The Sopranos for the first time for a future miniseries, to Bill’s astonishment.

Quote:
“Therapy scenes and dream sequences. Yeah, I'm out…Just give me the meat, give me the potatoes.” – Bill Simmons [05:48]

---

4. Character Focus: Detective Perry’s "Heat Check"

• Perry’s Ascendance: Across the episode, Perry emerges as the series’ most competent and interesting investigator, mirroring classic antihero energy from other prestige dramas.
• Mother Council & Dark Hearts Org: The group tries to untangle the biker gang’s power structure, delighting in “tropes” like the “call’s been made” and “Mother Council.”
• Motivation for Saving Jason: Perry’s defense of Jason is seen as investment in a flawed protégé—a relationship that is equal parts mentorly and menacing.
• Key Threat Scene: Perry’s threat to Aaron is read as an explicit warning: “If you need to leave, I could put you and the kids somewhere he'll never find you.” [15:36]

Quotes:
“He is the best detective on the show.” – Joanna Robinson [12:59]
“I took that as an absolute, absolute threat.” – Bill Simmons [15:53]

---

5. Flashbacks, Death, and Ritual

• Major Flashback Scene: The quarry flashback with Billy and Robbie is laden with emotional weight—two brothers, their lost dreams, and the fateful seeds of violence and revenge.
• Cliff’s Downfall: Cliff’s death is dissected as both inevitable and deeply sad, with dark humor about the logistics of filming his demise and the sadness permeating the show’s world.
• Symbolism of “It’s Over”: Discussion centers on how several characters already realize, on some level, that their fates are sealed—a theme literalized through the show’s flashbacks and the episode’s title.

Quotes:
“I love the flashback scene. I thought it was great…There’s so many important things that happen in that scene…” – Bill Simmons [38:02]
“This whole, you know, theme that comes up from Billy in the flashback of, like, it's already over. You don't know, but it's already done.” – Joanna Robinson [31:36]

---

6. The Mole Mystery

• Who’s the Informant? Multiple theories abound (Plimpton, Grasso, Lizzie, or a “double mole” scenario), as the group tears apart the evidence and direction of the reveal.
• Narrative Hand-Fake?: Joanna suspects that the seemingly straightforward reveal could be a red herring, while Rob argues for a more baroque, collaborative betrayal.

Quote:
“I think we're going double mole. I think Plimpton is a mole, but she's also working with one of the two, Grasso or Lizzie.” – Rob Mahoney [22:27]

---

7. Relationships & Power Dynamics

• Lizzie & Grasso’s Subplot: The hosts analyze their clumsy would-be romance—awkward, moralistic, and possibly loaded with double meaning about trust issues and secrets.
• Power Rankings of Potential Moles: Lizzie emerges as the character whose betrayal would hurt most, given her messily endearing qualities.

Quotes:
“I think Lizzie’s really good. She’s a hot mess in a good way, and I really like it. And I'm ready to do my power rankings...” – Bill Simmons [26:44]

---

8. Childhood Trauma and Realism

• The group shares insights from a listener/child psychologist about the plausibility of Sam’s behavior—his passivity and adaptability as responses to abuse.
• Robbie’s inability to be a responsible father emerges in stark contrast to his increasingly destructive actions.

Quote:
“He's going to be terrified at this point…But what makes it interesting in good TV is, like, it comes within the spirit of Robbie trying to be a good dad. He just doesn't know how to be a responsible dad.” – Rob Mahoney [37:52]

---

9. Predicting What Comes Next

• Lack of Mystery, Ticking Clock: With viewers ahead of the characters, tension shifts to “when” and “how” rather than “who” and “why.”
• Maeve-Centric Episode Ahead?: The absence of Maeve in this hour suggests she will take center stage in the next.
• Calls for More Ruffalo (Tom): The podcasters note that Tom continues to seem like a weak or out-of-his-depth leader.

Quotes:
“As we move into the last three, which is going to be…action, action, action, chase, all of that stuff that's going to be propulsive. But I think that might be why this. This middle section feels a little soft.” – Joanna Robinson [40:07]

---

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Allman Brothers Flashbacks:
  "Has a band ever been in more flashbacks than the Allman Brothers?" – Bill Simmons [01:17]
• On Daughters in Dramas:
  "It does bring up the legacy of daughters in dramas. This is big Homeland, famous one." – Bill Simmons [04:30]
• On Perry’s Tough Love:
  "If you need to leave, I could put you and the kids somewhere he'll never find you. Is that in the ground?" – Joanna Robinson [15:36]
• On Cliff’s Demise:
  "How did he breathe? I'd be so bummed out…we’re going to Saran Wrap you with a bunch of fudgeing makeup on..." – Bill Simmons [43:13]
• On “Delusional Men in TV”:
  “He thinks he’s going to go to Canada. A plan that’s never worked in the history of TV or movies, ever.” – Bill Simmons [35:22]

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|-------| | 00:13 - 02:42 | Episode critique; lack of Maeve; flashback structure | | 04:26 - 05:34 | Family/community theme; Emily’s subplot | | 05:34 - 06:11 | Therapy & dream scenes critique; Sopranos tangent | | 08:06 - 12:21 | Detective Perry deep dive; Dark Hearts “Mother Council” | | 13:01 - 17:14 | Perry’s threats; toxic mentor/mentee relationships | | 29:06 - 32:13 | Robbie & Sam’s runaway scene (and consequences) | | 31:00 - 32:13 | Cliff’s death and its inevitability | | 40:07 - 41:16 | On being “ahead” of the characters as viewers | | 44:14 - 45:31 | Predictions for future episodes |

---

Running Jokes & Pop Culture Tangents

• Allman Brothers as Flashback Soundtrack [01:01]
• “Homeland daughter” syndrome [04:30]
• Softball positions for Lizzie [26:37]
• NBA analogies (Steve Balmer as Robbie/Cliff) [34:14]
• The Summer I Turned Pretty and Dad Discomfort [49:35]

---

Closing Thoughts

As the show transitions into its back half, the hosts are both critical and excited: more action is promised, mysteries seem poised for resolution, and the core themes of family, failing parents, and self-delusion deepen. Maeve’s upcoming prominence is teased, as is the major meeting between Tom and Robbie.

Final Takeaways:

• The “worst” episode so far is still compelling and propulsive.
• The show’s focus on family, community, and loss of innocence is gaining weight.
• Perry stands out as the most dynamic antihero character.
• The “mole” subplot is primed for twists—with many suspects and emotional stakes.
• A major, Maeve-driven episode is likely next, with action and revelations on the horizon.

---

For listeners seeking additional analysis, power rankings, and wild speculation, subscribe and tune in weekly—and always remember, All Roads (still) lead to Maeve.

Transcript

[A]

Task Episode 4, Prestige TV Podcast. I'm Bill Simmons. Rob Mahoney here. Joanna Robinson here. How many shows do we have left? We have three left after this.

[B]

Three left.

[A]

Probably the worst episode of the four, but yet I thoroughly enjoyed it and I give it, like, at least an A minus, but it feels like we're just kind of moving toward the second half of the show. What do you think, Joe?

[C]

I think not enough Maeve. I think I'm most emotionally invested in Maeve, and I think the lack of Maeve makes this. I like this episode. All Roads. I really liked it, but I, I. Yeah, we're in the middle of, like, a propulsive story. I do think the. I'm curious what you guys think about the flashback section. I'm really interested, like, put putting a flashback like that in the middle of the season, you know?

[A]

Well, Rob's a big Almond Brothers guy.

[B]

Look, a little, little summer dip to the Almond Brothers. Who among us is. Is immune to those particular charms?

[C]

Is. Is the almond. Are the Allman Brothers the most quarry coded band? Like, is there a better band to listen to when you're at the quarry with your brother or for.

[A]

Have. Has a band ever been in more flashbacks than the Allman Brothers?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Great question.

[A]

I think as soon as we go backwards, they're just ready to. They're just in case you break. I really like the flashback scene. I can't wait to talk about that. Rob, where'd you stand on this episode?

[B]

I liked it, but I agree that I was, like, left a little bit cold. I think personally, for me, I was just hoping for a little more fireworks out of the sting, like, out of this big supposed collision between these forces. And then it just ended up with Cliff getting, I guess, run off the road and nabbed. And that's fine and eventful in its own way, but I was hoping for a little bit more there.

[A]

Yeah, they were setting it up that we were going to have some dramatic. And it just, you know, I thought Cliff could have driven for another four or five minutes, maybe zoom through some traffic. It's just all of a sudden it was over. I'm with you on Maeve. I actually, if I had a crit. It's weird to start with the nitpicks and the critiques, because there's a lot of good stuff in there. But if I had a nitpick, I'm just way more interested in Maeve than, Than Ruffalo's daughter. That's, you know, they kept, yeah, kept giving us scenes. She got the big monologue scene in this episode. And I. I just think she's a supporting fringe character and I don't. I just don't think she's that imperative to everything we're watching. And she's kind of over here and we just keep detouring to go over there. And unless we're paying off with that in some gigantic way, I just. I'm not into it.

[C]

I think. I think the theme of what she was talking about in terms of this idea of, like, having to feel grateful to be inside of a family and the larger story that. That works in every plot line about family and community and what it means to be inside of that community and what it means to be outside that community or you can never leave that community, I guess, if you're Aaron, et cetera. I thought that was interesting. But, yeah, Emily is not fully working for me, though. Close up magic, my guy Leo at the water ice with an incredible curly hair routine. Like, do you think close up magic is the move if you're a teenager and you're interested in your co worker, what do you think?

[B]

I think it will save you. Apparently, you know, it's really the only thing you need to get out of your, you know, terrible home situation to forget all of your troubles for exactly one night with water ice, cherry bombs. Like, you know, there's a solution here for Emily, but it is tough because I think you're exactly right, Bill. Like, everything. Everything she's saying, like, the substance of it that Jo was just talking about is important and resonant and interesting, but it is not the main plot of the show or the driving thrust of what we're doing. And to the extent that you could sketch out how it would be, I would say through this episode, you can see the kind of lines on both families. Right. Like, you see Tom with his family and the ways he and his wife, for all of their best efforts, kind of like couldn't make Emily and Ethan not feel like strangers in their own family. And then for the Pendergrass, like, Robbie is under this delusion that he's going to be able to whisk away his kids to Canada, buy a piece of land, live forever. Like, that's not a plan that's not going to work. And yet his daughter seems to be the realest in the situation in the sense that, like, she even knows that he's not going to make it to the. For their daughter dance.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, nice.

[A]

Well, for the daughter. Yeah. She. The.

[C]

The.

[A]

Emily's in a different chef. Yeah, it's fine. But it does bring up the legacy of daughters in dramas. This is big Homeland, famous one. But Homeland's the go to anytime this happens where you just kind of get the PTSD from season two especially. But yeah, it's a tough plane to land, especially when there's so many more interesting things happening in this show and we have these kind of double let's figure out who the mole was situation. This was the Perry episode. I mean, Perry was a real time heat check from him, which we'll get into.

[C]

But Detective, Detective Perry on the case. Yeah, absolutely. No, I think it's interesting you mentioned the legacy of teenage daughters on shows like this. Something that Rob and I talk about a lot on this feed is therapy scenes and how therapy scenes can really just slow down or feel like a too obvious sort of expositional tool or all that sort of stuff. So I don't know how much the therapy scenes are working for me.

[A]

Would say, wow, Joe doesn't even know those Sopranos of the therapy scenes in that. That was the most polarizing piece of the show. I'm. I'm on the record. Therapy scenes and dream sequences. Yeah, I'm out.

[C]

You're out.

[A]

These were ironically two tools that the Sopranos use, but I always felt like were the weakest parts of the show. But dreams where it's like, oh, that might mean this. I'm like, I'm out. Just give me the, give me the meat, give me the potatoes.

[B]

Aggregate this Bill Simmons colon anti Dreams and also anti Therapy, anti the Sopranos.

[A]

It sounds like for my dramas, for my TV dramas.

[C]

Bill, how does it, how does it make you feel knowing that Rob and I are about to watch our first episodes of the Sopranos for the Hooked miniseries we're doing on the Prestige feed?

[A]

Rob's never watched it either.

[B]

Also, I've never watched it. I've just skated by in the background while you're grilling Joe. I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to sit over here in my corner. But also have not seen the show and we're. We're about to go on this together.

[A]

Oh, my Lord. That's really interesting. When does that start?

[C]

Well, we're taping this early. We should say that, like, we're taping these episodes really early because I. We've had some listeners be like, hey, why is Bill talking about future episodes of Task on his podcast when he says he hasn't watched ahead? We're taping these early. We're all operating under the rules. We're watching it week to week. But yeah, we are gonna, we're gonna do this. I think it's like the last week of September. Whenever I think the week that this episode comes out, that's what we're doing.

[A]

The best thing about, about taping these early is finishing the episode and then within three hours, I'm probably figuring out a way to watch the next one because then we can immediately jump ahead. This episode is brought to you by Disney. Tron Ares is coming only in theaters October 10th. When sophisticated AI soldiers arrive from the digital world to invade ours, one soldier, Ares, goes against his programming, so starts to think for himself. I love when this happens. He might be the only thing that could save humanity. See Tron Ares and IMAX in 3D. Only in theaters October 10th. Get tickets now.

[D]

Your teen adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained. One who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly. They do not always show up on time, but when they arrive, you notice an individual confident in their contradictions. They know the rules, but behave as if they do not exist. New team. The new fragrance by Miu Miu, defined by you.

[A]

Let's talk about our guy Perry. Just a heat check from him this episode. What's your, what's your background with the actor, Joanna?

[C]

Like I said, I know him from Sons of Anarchy. He was on that show.

[A]

And that's it?

[C]

I think so. I mean, he's been around a bunch of other things, but that's what I mainly know him from. What do you, what do you know him from?

[A]

He's that guy. I don't, I can't even like pin him down. Just knew him from stuff, but can't even really figure out what I know him from. And I didn't watch Sons of Anarchy. What about you, Rep?

[B]

I mean, he's been in like literally everything, especially in terms of like semi prestige TV products of the last 20 years or so has just like popped up in every single show, it turns out.

[A]

So he, he figures out that the gun in the killing was used in the, in the big Redding fight, which we're getting. That scene, they just keep alluding it and circling around it too many times. And now we know that now that the flashback sign has been turned on, we're going backwards with that.

[C]

What he Brothers. What Allman Brothers song do you play at a shootout in Reading?

[A]

Probably something a little rollicking, right?

[B]

Gotta be.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something with a little, A little ump to him. Yeah, I mean, you Honestly, might even zoom over to Leonard Skynyrd, which I think is allowed.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, you can.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

It's like. Like adjacent. Like, almost like a brother in the family. So he says, it's got to be something personal. It's got to be something personal. And he goes and has little car meeting with Dark arts guy who's. Do we know that guy's name? Bearded, kind of. He's kind of the mob boss of the Dark Hearts, but we don't know his name or really what his job is.

[B]

I don't even know that he's the mob.

[C]

He's Vincent.

[B]

Yes, he is Vincent, but he's almost more like an envoy from the Dark Hearts HQ or something. It's like he has been at the meeting, and he's come back to give Perry the notes from the meeting.

[A]

So have we met the leader?

[B]

No.

[C]

Well, my understanding is that there's something called the Mother Council. Love. Love this terminology, the Mother Council, which is, I think, like, 12 people or something like that. And. And Perry's on the Mother Council, but he's been off playing detective Perry trying to cover Jason's ass. And I'm really curious why he's so invested in Jason, but trying to cover Jason's ass. And meanwhile, the Mother Council had a meeting without him. He's like, nobody told me you were meeting. And they were like, that's because you're out here having, you know, relations with the woman bartender and investigating what happened with Billy, et cetera, et cetera. And so Vincent's like, we decided without you that Jason's out. Jason's your guy, but he's not handling things, and he's out. So I don't know that there's, like, a boss boss. I think it's like a council of bosses, a surprisingly, like, sort of democratic association in the mc.

[B]

They're very evolved. And honestly, like, the Dark Hearts are apparently incredible scrapbookers. Like, going back through the records is just immaculately done. So congratulations to Perry or Reaper or Breaker or whoever it was that did all the scrapbooking, because they just, you know, really have a delicate touch with it.

[A]

I'm jealous of the scrapbooking. Yeah, we don't do that for the record ringer at all. I don't have a 2017 Ringer yearbook. I can look through this. Had one of my favorite tropes in a show like this. And there's a couple because there was two others later. The call's been made when they tell when the guy's, like, trying to be like, no, no. What if we do this? He's like, the call's been made. Like, this is done. It's a wrap. We're dealing with this dude, and this is now out of your hands. I still don't know. That guy might have been the leader of the mothership council, though.

[B]

Oh, you think so?

[A]

Yeah. I don't. He's either the conciliary or the leader. And I felt like there was a certain weight to him that made me wonder if he's actually running the whole thing. We need an org chart.

[B]

That's how we got on the counter. Yeah, I mean, like, he has the gravitas, you know?

[C]

So, Perry, it's happening. It's happening Friday. Yeah. Mother, daughter, father daughter dance, which is not happening because we didn't even get tickets for it. That's Thursday. And is it Wednesday? Is that.

[B]

Yeah, because tomorrow is the dance.

[C]

Yeah. So it's Wednesday. Jason's supposed to be out of there by Friday. So that's the TikTok and what we're.

[B]

Working with here and out of there. Just so we're on the same page. Like, he's getting killed. Right? That's. That is the plan as far as the motorcycle gang is concerned. And it does seem like. Perry, you know, Joe, you mentioned earlier, like, why would he be going to these lengths to try to save Jason? I do think there is, like, an investment in your protege kind of thing happening there, like, trying to bail out this relationship that has been personally and professionally important to him. That said, I mean, he's going to great lengths and great urgency and kind of like, increasing menace and brutality to try to turn over these stones. And, you know, the methods aren't always great, but the results kind of speak for themselves. Like, he's the best detective on this show so far.

[C]

He is the best detective on the show.

[A]

Yeah. He. He cracks down. He gets dark hearts number three, whatever that guy's name is, and finds out that Billy was running around with Jason's wife, pulls that piece out. Here's the beating story. This is the second time we've heard about this beating that apparently just went on for, like, as long as an overtime football game, and stuff was just oozing out of his head. I hope we're not getting that flashback, but that guy said it's been following us around like a curse ever since Trope number two.

[C]

Yeah. Really good one. Really good.

[A]

And then. And then he goes to see Jason. I'm a big fan, Rob, of the. Going in for the meeting. But you See the guy subtly putting some sort of like punch thing on?

[B]

Oh, yeah, it's like wrapping the knuckles with the metal.

[A]

Yeah, it's a pro wrestling thing. It's like, oh, my God. He pulled the brass knuckles out of his trunks. But did you think he was going to beat that guy to death right there?

[B]

I didn't think he was gonna beat him to death just because he seemed so invested in saving him. But I was a little surprised at how quickly he let up. It was kind of just like a, a one punch and then an impassioned headbutt between them of mutual frustration. And then all of a sudden we're just like back to business. Which, look, who am I to argue with motorcycle gang justice? Like, they clearly have some stuff figured out that the rest of us could learn from. Structurally speaking, hierarchically speaking. I'm just saying there's lessons, you know, maybe it's not knuckles, but maybe there is a forgiveness there we can all learn from.

[A]

What do you think, Jeff?

[C]

Yeah, that was like one punch and it was over. I was quite surprised by that. But again, like, I think it's really interesting to track these relationships across, like inside of these non blood bound families, inside of like law enforcement, inside of, you know, we meet Garasso's chief, inside of this episode, we meet Grasso's co workers. You know, the way that Grasso is like, keeps calling, like, keeps asking Tom about like the priesthood and calling him boss. There's all these just sort of like pseudo father figures and then a lot of like missing dead parents all around, all around the show that. I think that's what's happening with Perry and Jason. It's just in a very toxic space inside of the motorcycle club. As much as Rob thinks they have things to teach us, we can agree to disagree. Joe, was your interpretation of Perry, who, who menaced and wrestled Aaron back down to her own kitchen table inside of that, that really good scene.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

If you need to leave, I could put you and the kids somewhere he'll never find you. Is that in the ground? Is that your interpretation of what Perry is saying? Like, not I will get you out of here, but I will kill you if you try to leave. What was your direction?

[A]

I took that as a, as a absolute, absolute threat.

[C]

Yeah. I will kill you. I think Eren took it that way as well.

[B]

So, yeah, I mean, yeah, message received in many ways. Like, he is terrifying in that conversation with her and there's no part of him or that character that you would ever believe would actually help this Woman.

[A]

Yeah, Well, I thought he was going to kill Jason because he said he lied to him. There's a lot of spit in this scene and in this episode, but their faces are really close, and he's spitting as he's talking. And I. Every time I see that, I always think of the actors, like, what's. What would have been a bridge too far for me, where. What's the actor who plays Perry like? Like, yo, dude, maybe not just, like a hunk of spit in my face as we're doing this. Like, could you. Could you speak?

[C]

Jamie McShane. Yeah, Jamie McShane.

[A]

Yo, Jamie. Can we do a second take where you're not just heaving mucus all over my face? And then later, at the end, Cliff gives a nice little blood spit. But this is a very spitty. This is the spittiest episode we've had of the.

[C]

Do you think we need. Do you think we need a flashback to what happened to Billy? Because we saw what happened to Cliff, and I feel like we can just sort of. We. We understand what it looks like when you do that.

[A]

We're getting the flashback.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

The flashback. The flashback door has now been opened. The portal. The portal of the past.

[B]

This year, after seeing the prosthetics and makeup team work on Cliff, I don't. I don't want to see Billy's head split.

[C]

Elephant. Elephant man territory. It was.

[A]

It's great. It's great makeup. Well, Perry, Jason says to him, she was going to take the kids. She was going to leave me. Which I think is trope number three. Goes to see Aaron get some threats in the kitchen. Not positive he believes her. Her protestations.

[C]

No, no.

[A]

I think he knows, right. He's. He's put this together. And I'm not. I'm not sure what his end game is with Aaron, but I don't think it's going to be good for her or the family.

[B]

Yeah, no, I think he's got Aaron figured out. I think he's quickly now has Maeve's relationship to all this figured out. And this is the good news, bad news about this being a light Maeve week is. Yes. She's not in this episode a lot. I think she's going to be a next week a whole, like, a ton. And in very insidious and dangerous ways.

[A]

Which may be why she wasn't in it that much.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Probably filming other stuff.

[B]

Oh, definitely.

[A]

Could be.

[C]

The title of the episode is All Roads. And I was like, all roads lead to what? And I think it's Maeve like, right? Because yeah, well that's like Tom Tom met her. Perry now has the scent on her and like we're all converging on Maeve and the prendergrast home.

[A]

So yeah, I like Rob's point that Perry's the best detective in the show.

[B]

She's really good.

[A]

Perry, there's still time. Go to the other side. You can fight crime. We're gonna take a break and then we're gonna talk about the big revelation.

[C]

This episode is brought to you by Pretty Litter. Keeping your house clean when you've got a cat is no easy feat. With Pretty Litter, you don't have to choose between a fresh house and a healthy cat. This litter is practically magic. It's low dust, controls odors and lasts up to a whole month. But the best part? It monitors your cat's health every time they use the box. Plus, Pretty Litter ships free right to your door. So no heavy bags to carry and no last minute pet store runs right now. Save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy at PrettyLittleitter.com prestige that's PrettiLitter.com prestige to save 20% on your first order AND get a free cat toy. Pretty Litter.com prestige Pretty Litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. C site for details this episode is brought to you by Diet Coke. You know that moment when you just need to hit pause and refresh. An ice cold Diet Coke isn't just a break. It's your chance to catch your breath and savor a moment that's all about you. Always refreshing. Still the same great taste Diet Coke. Make time for you time.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. You know what fall means, right? Game day parties are back. Whole Foods Market has everything you need. Kick off with impressive appetizers like heat and eat boneless chicken bits or a shrimp cocktail platter. Then score big with big flavors for big appetites. Feed your team with made in house marinated chicken wings and Teton waters, ranch hot dogs and sausages and an oven ready 16 inch pizza that will satisfy even the extra large players. Host Game Day with help from Whole Foods Market both in store and online. Okay, Joanna called this or I called. I think Joanna called this. Martha Plimpton is the mole. I think you called this Joanna.

[B]

I think this might be a double head fake.

[A]

I consider this and I just think so. She calls. We have the classic it's me. We have a problem, right? Just, like, just a staple. And then Perry is telling Jason, basically, almost. In the next scene, we heard from our informant. So unless they're really. I mean, this is like, Rob, this is a Andrew Nemhardt in the paint, just doing, like, triple fakes, trying to get a layup off kind of head fake.

[B]

We're in Jalen Brunson territory at this point.

[A]

I.

[B]

She.

[A]

So if it's. If it is a head fake, she's really selling it, too, on her end. Because when she meets with Ruffalo, and at one point, like, her eyes just kind of start darting. Like, she's like, almost like a Law and Order character, like, almost intentionally trying to look guilty. Then as the call, I think it's her.

[C]

I mean, yeah, she asks, like, what time are you meeting in the park? You know, she asks all the information, all the questions you would want, you know, a mole to ask. I just think that showing it, that reveal is so underwhelming. Just, like, showing it to us like, that it feels like a fake. Because if. If she's not the mole, what that call could be is the call she promised to make, which is to figure out what's going on with the mole. So, like, we have a problem, we cut away. The next thing she says is, we have an informant in the department. You know what I mean? Like, that could be the call that she's making. I still have my eye on. On Grasso. That's. That's my. We were. We were talking earlier. I just think the Lizzie Grasso stuff is so. They're, like, hitting that so hard that. That, like, we have heartbreak in store for us in terms of someone betraying someone else and I. Or. Or dying one of the two. But I think it's more interesting if it's, like, a betrayal. So. Yeah.

[A]

What do you think, Rob? This is.

[B]

This is my prediction for the week. I think we're going double mole. I think Plimpton is a mole, but she's also working with one of the two, Grasso or Lizzie, because, like, if she's the person putting together the task force, it would be an incredible stroke of luck for one of them to just, like, end up on it and also be tied into the motorcycle gang. But if both of them are compromised and she's to put this person on the task force, then all of a sudden, the pieces start connecting and there's. There's just so many little things with Grasso and Lizzie both that make them feel a little bit suspicious. Like, you know, the camera will linger on Lizzie a little bit during the Gwen Stefani song when she's, like, singing about being a bad girl doing bad things. And look, there's lots of meanings that could tie in there. But also Grasso's want to get with Lizzie, but refusal. Like, he doesn't want to be in her marital bed, which we can unpack if you guys would like. But also doesn't offer to take her back to his place. He doesn't offer any alternatives in a way that feels, like, fishy and closed off and, like, he doesn't want other people to know too much about him.

[C]

I also think there's just, like, a weird, like, religious conflict thing happening with Grasso that is super interesting. Like, we've been from the start, we've been hearing about his religious upbringing, his protestations about fish, Fish Fridays and all this other stuff inside of the Catholicism. But he keeps asking about, you know, the priesthood and all the sorts of, like, that. Raised Catholic, it felt like his objection to being in the marital bed was a religious or moral one. And so, like, you know, spiritually, what is going on with this guy? Which makes him, I think, a perfect candidate for something as conflicted as I'm ratting or I'm molding or something like that.

[A]

So, dj, take care of business and then feel guilty after you're under 30 years old. Grab the sex when you can get it. Come on.

[B]

What did he think was going to happen? Like, they go, they're going back to her place. Did he think that when Lizzie split up with her, actually, like, burned the bed on ceremony? What did he think was her room?

[C]

Some people have spare rooms. I don't. I don't know what he thought was going on. Here's my living room.

[A]

Like, there's other spots in the house on the floor.

[C]

She's like. She's like, I don't want to have sex on the floor. Or, like, over my recliner. But I'm like, is there a couch? Like, we can. We can make this work here. Here's Michael.

[A]

Go outside.

[C]

Here's my question. Are we sleeping in our jeans? Is that the implication there? She's just like, good night. And they're cuddled up, shirtless with their jeans still on In. In the marital bed. Is it worse to like, sleep with your jeans on in the marital bed than it is to just, like, have sex?

[A]

I just thought. I didn't think that was a good scene. I. I didn't. I didn't. That scene did not work for me.

[C]

His reasoning.

[A]

It just didn't seem like a. It didn't seem like a realistic way for. These people have been courting each other for a couple weeks.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They're getting drunk at a bar together. It's on. And then just the faucet shutting off that fast. I don't think that was realistic. It was also unclear how they were drunk, but then they weren't. I just thought that scene is all over the place.

[B]

I think those characters are all over the place in a way that is just, like, constantly making alarms go off for me with both of them. I like them, but I don't know what to make of them. And I'm still suspicious of both of them within the context of the mulling and ratting.

[C]

I really like the Lizzie performance. I think that is really good. I really liked her. Her scene with Aaliyah, the. Like, the Aaliyah Chekhov sharpshooter sort of line that we got, and her talking about being on the softball team and making matches and this idea of nicknames and camaraderie. And this is another bid towards family and community. This is something that Brad Inglesby has talked about. How he's so interested in the Delco area is these ideas of community and how we show up for each other. And inside the motorcycle gang. It's a very toxic version of that, I would say, you know, Joe, you.

[B]

Say that, but they also do. They also do the same version of what Lizzie was talking about with her softball team, where she was like, I made patches with nicknames for everybody. Like, the motorcycle gang is literally wearing those.

[C]

So do patch in. It's true. It's true.

[A]

Rob, Softball flashback to the championship game. Lizzie with the bases loaded, making Rice Krispies treats for everybody and then knocking a grand slam.

[B]

I'm gonna say just on neuroses alone. Lizzie is not a pitcher. I don't. I don't think she has it in her. She would be an absolute nervous wreck out.

[A]

Yeah, definitely. Like, second base, right field. Just try to keep Lizzie right field before she self combusts. I think Lizzie's really good. She's a hot mess in a good way, and I really like it. And I'm ready to do my power rankings for. If you. If there is a double mole or if we're wrong about Martha pimped in. Saddest you'd be if somebody was the mole, because for me, Lizzie's number one.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I'd be like, oh, I was really getting attached to you. Is that. Would you have somebody above her Joanna or. No.

[C]

No, that would be. That would be the most devastating. I want to see her, like, confront Anthony. If he's the mole. That's. That's what I really want to see. But I'm curious why we're setting up Aaliyah as. As a. As a crack sharpshooter. I think that's. That's something that we need to think about. And also, we had a bunch of listeners write in DJ Grasanova. Gmail.com was really busy this last week, and a couple people pointed out that Aaliyah had this line earlier in the season that she says, there's mice in here. Little shit. Little shits everywhere. So this idea that she would be the one to figure out who the. Who the rat is, who the mole is inside of their organization, a lot of people thought that that might be an indication of that.

[B]

I also thought in her conversation with Lizzie, when they're talking about the sharpshooting and wanting to give Aaliyah the nickname, and Lizzie kind of gets stuck on the idea of, like, I wish I had something. Like, I wish I had something I was good at. Which makes me a little nervous that she went outside the organization to find something she's good at, like ratting out to a motorcycle gang. But I hope we're wrong. I hope. I hope this is not the beat.

[A]

Well, we have. We had one other big thing happen. You knew Sam was going to have to hop out of the car at some point, and it was always in these altruistic Sam moments where he's just. It's just not sure if his IQ is over maybe 30, but he's like fish water just, like, wandering out, and there's somebody having a segu sees him, and that leads to Robbie running out and see a little bit of a dark side for Robbie. That was the darkest it's gotten with that dude. But unfortunately, there's witnesses. The kid says the name Robbie. So now here we go.

[C]

He says. When he says Robbie, like, did anyone else just, like, feel their stomach drop? You know, he just, like. It almost, like, slightly slows down. He's just like, Robbie. And you're like, no.

[A]

Yeah. Why are we rooting for Robbie? But somehow, I don't know.

[B]

That's a good question.

[C]

We also got. We also got an email from a listener, Steve, who had a really good prediction of that. I like, I'm sorry, Bill. A little bit better than your the cute child is gonna die prediction, which is that Sammy, who loves animals, and Tom, who loves bird watching. What if Sam Winds up in Tom's household at the end of all of this.

[A]

I don't know how I feel about, like, baby gone. Like, there's.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know how I feel about, like, do over adopted son, but. But, like, yeah, the animal lovers get to have a connection, and it sort of helps pull Tom out of the depression that he's in. And maybe it, like, that healing sends him to Ethan's hearing or something like that. Like. But I like that idea of, like, chickens are birds. Let's talk about birds together. I don't know.

[B]

Look, someone needs to adopt Sam, and preferably somebody who's not regularly beating random dudes faces to a pulp in moments of distress. That would be ideal, I think.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So say. So Sam and. And Ruffalo are fishing or looking at birds, and then the Almond brothers come in with Tuesday's gone away. And then. That's it. And credits.

[C]

That's it. And credits.

[A]

I personally would think that would be a little corny. They would really have to sell me on that one if. If that was the. The full circle that he gets one more chance at adoption. But. Well, the other thing that happened was Cliff. Cliff died. We had the fanduel odds. What do we say, Cliff? Five and a half episodes. We did our first.

[C]

I think we crushed.

[A]

We said five and a half.

[B]

Yeah, we did.

[A]

We all went under, and Cliff didn't make it to episode five. He didn't make it out of looking, and he didn't make it make it out of this either. It's just that poor actor losing.

[C]

This is a scenario we talked about, which is that the motorcycle club, the MC gets Cliff, and then, you know, probably the cops get Robbie is probably what's gonna happen. But, yeah, Cliff, my guy. I will say the. I mean, the. The makeup was really good. This is horrifying and horrible. I think earlier, I do. I do think we should talk about the, like, flashback a bit more. But when the. When that flashback ends.

[B]

Yeah. When it flips back.

[C]

When it flips back to the cold, sad quarry, and Cliff is just sort of, like, heaped over a rock, and Sammy is just like. So, like, Cliff was already gone. Like, he was just, you know, he's just, like, sleeping in the car. He's just like, it's over. And this whole, you know, theme that comes up from Billy in the flashback of, like, it's already over. You don't know, but it's already done. And Cliff was like, yeah, I'm already done. And Robbie's still Acting like Robbie's still dressing up, dancing with his daughter, like making plans to go to Canada. As if it's not already over. But it's over. You know, I think that's it's over.

[B]

It's like fully saran wrapped at this point. We are, we are completely done and dead and suffocated.

[C]

Put it in the fridge. It's over. Yeah.

[A]

Rob, should we do a first take segment? What would you like, deserve to die? Did he cause this himself? Did Cliff's mistakes lead to his own death? Because I think Cliff really fell apart the last couple episodes. I mean, he fucking fell asleep in the car. That was Sam in there. You've one job, just stay awake for eight minutes. But he really felt like he was unraveling over really since the shootout. And we've all seen too many of these shows to know that he's not making it to the end. So there you go.

[B]

But isn't the unraveling maybe the better response than the delusion? Like, if you're going to be on one side of it? I think what Cliff is doing is probably in a lot of ways more healthy and human than what Robbie is doing, which is not just continuing on as if there's no problems until all of a sudden people are killing your friend and stealing all the drugs or some of the drugs, but like looping your family deeper and deeper into this stuff. Pulling Sam, who everything we've seen from Sam to this point has been feeding chickens and eating pancakes and generally like pretty happy under the circumstances. Like he just watched Robbie beat the shit out of this dude. Like he's going to be terrified at this point.

[A]

Yeah, that wasn't great.

[C]

It's interesting that you say that because again we got a. We got another really good email from a listener who was a child psychologist who was talking about like the way that Sammy is reacting to basically being kidnapped and how he's very like, go with the flow. And they're like this, this listener Dave was saying, like this is absolutely accurate child psychology for someone like Sammy, who was, who was abused, who was like put down in the basement, like all these sort of things like this. He's learned to just be like quiet and soft and amenable and sweet and just, you know, make himself appealing to whoever it happens to be taking care of him at any given time. So like, while I'm sure he's traumatized by watching Robbie beat this guy nearly to death.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Also, what else has he seen living with the parents that he lives with up until this point, you know, listen.

[A]

Sammy's kind of wired like a 70s kid. This is what all the 70s kids were like. We just rolled with the punches, didn't know what was going to happen, who was going to be home. Right? We just walk around with no oversight whatsoever. He rolls in the punches. I respect it. Quick NBA question for Rob. Sorry, Joanna. Which side is Balmer on more? Is he in the cliff? This is the. The anchor is about to come down in my head. Or is he in the Robbie? I don't. I'm just gonna plan for the father daughter dance and not. And pretend all this stuff isn't happening.

[B]

Well, which side is offering more carbon credits right now?

[A]

Probably the Robbies.

[B]

I think we have our answer. I do think, you know, that's certainly a little more delusion happening in terms of being able to sweep all that under the rug. There is a little bit of I'm just going to be able to get in the back of this truck and disappear. Quality to the Clippers PR messaging right now.

[A]

And Robby, because this is the key to these shows, is the guy who's like, he's fucked. There's no way out. He's going to get killed by this gang or he's going to get caught. He's got this kid that he's obviously not going to kill. So he's no outs with that. He thinks he's going to go to Canada. A plan that's never worked in the history of TV or movies ever.

[C]

Correct.

[A]

And just like, yeah, I sold my Fentanyl and I open a little farm here in Winnipeg with my adopted. Then that, that plan's not working. I'm gonna bring my kids, it'll be fine. They'll just, they'll just move right into the, the Calgary, you know, school system. Just completely delusional. But I don't know. That's what we get in these shows.

[C]

Oh well, I just think, I think it's interesting like we've talked from the beginning about this idea of Robbie being like this romantic, this like dreamer kind of character and that's who he's always been. And I thought it was really interesting in the flashback to have the Billy versus Robbie pov. To have these like two brothers with their matching back tattoos, you know, like sitting by the lake and this idea of like what you lose when you lose someone who not only that you love, but who sees you a certain way. Right? So you know, Robbie's like, she's just gonna, maybe she'll find someone better. Robbie's like, doesn't have to look hard to find someone better. And then, you know, Billy gives him a bunch of shit, but, you know, about the size of his dick or whatever. But then is also like, but you're great. You're the best around. And so, like, losing the person who sees you that way. And there's no one else in Robbie's life who's like, you're the best around. Certainly not Harper, certainly not Maeve. Like, no one's like, you're the best, Robbie. That devastation, like, what that does to you, that kind of loss, losing someone who's known you your whole life. Like, they don't. Their parents aren't around. Like, who knows Robbie anymore? Cliff. Cliff is loyal to him. Like, Cliff is great. But like, that. What that costs you to lose, I think is a really. Something that Brad really captured in that flashback scene.

[B]

I think you're certainly losing the tenderness of that kind of exchange and dynamic. Right. Because I think. I think Maeve and Robbie's kids know him in a way. And in fact, like, they kind of see right through him in this episode. Right. Like, Maeve is calling him out left and right. His daughter knows better than to rely on the fact that her dad is going to show up. It's like, if you are the romantic in your life, you kind of end up being surrounded by realists because someone has to pull you back down to earth at times.

[C]

You turn them into pragmatists.

[B]

Absolutely. And the fact that he's doing that with his daughter specifically, like, is heartbreaking to watch. The fact that she has to be the sobering adult in the room who's like, yeah, this is not happening. I put the money back in your wallet. Fucking sucks. But, like. But what makes it interesting in good TV is, like, it comes within the spirit of Robbie trying to be a good dad. He just doesn't know how to be a responsible dad.

[A]

Yeah. And they did a nice job of making it super awkward. That father, that. Let's do a dance right here. It's like, oh, my God. But, like, barely watch it. I love the flashback scene. I thought it was great.

[C]

Yeah. And I agree.

[A]

The fade to sad, like, semi passed out Cliff and like a shitty day at the quarry versus where we were. I. So there's so many important things that happen in that scene, but just Aaron showing up and the way she, like, ran at him and the fact that the whole family is kind of watching it, which leads to, you know, stuff every family has where it's like, oh, yeah, we got to keep this secret for our guy Billy. But I just. I thought that scene did so many different things. And also explained, you know, the Eren. Why she would. She obviously loved that dude.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why she would want to get revenge on these guys and the whole thing.

[C]

I love. I love that conversation that Billy and Robbie have of, like, I thought you said it was over. Like, you ended it. And Billy's like, I tried. I tried. Like, I thought that was really good. And. And the look on Maeve's face, right? We see Maeve and Billy, like, playing around in, like, the water. Father, daughter, sort of like fun earlier, but then look on her face of just like, this is. This is a disaster. And. And putting Maeve in that similar Harper space of just having to be the pragmatist of, like, here's my dad following his heart, doing this thing. He's in love with this woman. And I know how the motorcycle club works. And this is an absolute disaster. What is this going to do to us?

[A]

I mean, Rob, she. She had a thing for six foot, three strapping guys with a lot of tattoos. You could add a chance. You know, motorcycle days.

[B]

I'm a few tads short, but, you know, I could ride with the best of them. You know, I was. I was really. I was really moving up in the gang until I got waylaid.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

It's too bad the Fentanyl incident didn't help you.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah. I like Aaron. And then I think that's. I think that's all the stuff we. I wanted to hit just about the episode itself, except for Maeve giving Robbie the ultimatum. Yeah, not enough Maeve, but it makes me think next episode is a Maeve episode, because that's usually how this stuff works. Anything else you want to hit for just for episode four, Joanna.

[C]

I guess a problem that we find ourselves in right now and in the middle of a season like this, when a lot of people are trying to chase down clues. Even though it was fun to watch Detective Perry and I really loved actually that scene he had with his. His lady and. And their back and forth about the coffee. Like, I thought that was really necessary for. To have that moment with Perry. But, like, we're ahead of most of the characters. Like, we know what's going on for the most part. And that's always a tricky place to have a TV audience in. If we're ahead of most of the characters, we have the information, barring this, like, potential mole head fake or something like that. So as we move into the last three, which is going to be like, action, action, action, chase, all of that stuff that's going to be propulsive. But I think that might be why this. This middle section feels a little soft. It's just sort of like. It's not a mystery we're chasing along with them. We're just like. It's a. It's a when, not who, what, how. It's a sort of like, how. How soon is this all going to come crashing down? Which can be tense and exciting, but I think in this case feels just like a little bit softer than some of the earlier episodes.

[B]

Well, especially because the task force is the party that's so far behind. Like, they're so caught up dealing with this mole stuff in particular and just getting like, we should say. I wasn't sure about the mechanics of the phone. Like, Ray's phone is what's used. Being used to set up for this sting. Was the phone given to the motorcycle gang, like, the actual phone, or was it a cloned phone so that they could kind of eavesdrop on the text? Like, I wasn't sure what was happening.

[C]

There exactly, but he said he. Like, we saw Grasso send a text. And then Cliff said, I haven't heard from him yet. So whatever is happening in the phone, like, he's not getting those messages from the phone that the cops have. So I don't know. There's something happened with the phones that I don't feel like we understand yet, you know?

[B]

Yeah, maybe there were swap.

[A]

Breaking his phone was. Was fun, too. In the car chase, Cliff had a lot of. A lot of unforced errors down this, down the stretch. Like, maybe get off the phone and try to drive away from these guys.

[C]

Here's what I'll say to Robbie. Some. Some. Some notes I have for Robbie. Robbie breaks the phone of the guy who took the photo of him, but then he just tosses it. And like, I understand you don't want to take a cell phone with you because you don't want it to be traced, but I just felt like him tossing the cell phone and leaving it there did not feel like the move to me.

[A]

You bring the phone, toss it later? Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Put it through the shredder. Like, does it blend dot com? I don't know.

[A]

It's almost like Robbie's not that good of a criminal.

[B]

No.

[A]

He's being reinforced over and over again. Yeah, it's a little new to all this. Rob, when's the next time you're going to have a heavily Saran Wrap bagel without thinking of Cliff?

[B]

I don't think I'm ever going to be able to look at plastic wrap the same way again. There was something about just the intensity of the way it was being wrapped that really, really got under my skin.

[A]

Are we, like, how did he breathe?

[C]

Bagels.

[A]

Yeah. In New York City, though, like, the, like, super.

[C]

The Sarana bagel wrapping.

[A]

Yeah, I did. How do you think they did that actor? That was one of those. How did you do this? Like, I just couldn't figure it out.

[B]

You know, that's got to be, like.

[C]

You put little, like, air holes in there for him.

[A]

I'd be so bummed out if that, like, first, like, being spit on. I wouldn't want that. I wouldn't want to be in that scene. But then, yeah, we're going to Saran Wrap you with a bunch of fudgeing makeup on where you can't really breathe anyway. And just try to hold your breath for a minute. Wouldn't be great.

[B]

That spit scene in particular, how many takes was it? Was it like fourth take? Let me get a sip of Kool Aid. Blood splatter on Jason.

[A]

Yeah. Ingles B is like, one more.

[B]

It's like, come on, we need the coverage.

[A]

Yeah, that'll do it from this side. All right, it's prediction time. Joanna, let's go. We got three episodes left. I assume episode six is going to be our Mack Daddy awesome holy episode would be our experience with these shows.

[B]

Could be.

[A]

Do you expect any sort of huge swerve? Anything crazy in episode five? Or is it the Maeve episode?

[C]

Well, my main question is when? And we've been asking this before. When do we get Tom and Robbie in the same place? When are we getting our, like, diner heat scene? Right? Like, yes, if. If, like, six. If six. We only three episodes left. If six is the big, like, action Y moment, and then seven is the sort of come down. Like, that has to happen next week, right? We have to have Tom and Robbie next week.

[B]

I mean, you could have it in the action episode. You know, the first 15 to 20 minutes is them intersecting for some reason or another. And then the back half of it is the action extravaganza.

[C]

So I also just feel like I need more Ruffalo being a bit more competent or, like, maybe he's just not competent. Maybe that's the thing. He looked like a, like, the saddest, like, sack of potatoes once his, like, sting went. Went poorly. But, like, yeah. What. Why is Tom in the FBI? What is he good at? What have we seen him be good at? So far, are we going to see that evolve or should we just send him back to the job fair? Like what? Like what do we think? I don't know.

[A]

Does he have a taste for the action at the level like this? It's funny because it made me think a little bit of no country for Old Men when. When Tommy Lee goes in the. He sees. He sees the thing shot out of the door after Brolin dies. And just the fear he has being in that room versus how he would have handled it 20 years ago. And he like officially realizes, like, I'm a little too old for this job. I was getting those vibes from Ruffalo.

[B]

I think, you know, to the extent that this is heat, we are not getting the, like, this crew is good moment. Like, this is not. Oh, these guys are hyper competent. This is. Both of these guys, like, are kind of okay. And also kind of suck at their jobs or the criminal in Robbie's case. Like, I think some of the bumbling is the point for Ruffalo, right.

[A]

And Perry's the best at his job of anyone. But even Perry maybe should have put two and two together with who is. Has a vested interest in fucking with us. Took him, well, a month to kind of start patching it together that somebody had it out for the gang.

[B]

I did like that wrinkle that like on a local level, it was an open secret that Jason had beat Billy to death. But on a one step up level within the organization, like, Perry just bought the company line about him skimming money and. And thought that was the end of it. Like, I like that there's that barrier to entry because Jason does not seem like the sharpest detective in the world. I don't think he would be putting all the pieces together. But Perry, now that he has seen the one critical piece, is starting to get the whole picture.

[C]

I'm still. I also, like, I feel really sort of dialed in on Perry at this point. Jason remains kind of like a mystery character to me in terms of like who he is, what he actually cares about. Like, she was going to take the kids, but like, does he actually care about that or is that a pride thing? Does he have like a rage, you know, switch that flips? Like, you know, what. What's his. What's his overall deal? I'm not sure. I feel like I understand his interior life at all, but maybe I guess.

[B]

We'Re going to need to see that head splitting flashback to figure out if the rage problem.

[A]

So the two flashbacks we think we might get are the reading fight and then maybe Billy getting beaten to death.

[B]

I actually don't think we're getting either.

[C]

Why?

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah, why? Like, what would it show?

[A]

I don't know. If we were going to get more flashbacks, those would be the two candidates, I would think.

[B]

Are we not still waiting on Tom's wife?

[C]

Tom's wife.

[A]

Tom's wife is another one.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Rob, any big predictions?

[B]

I'm on Double Mole Watch. I'm going to. I'm going to say that the second mole is Lizzie. I think Plimpton and Lizzie are in cahoots in some fashion. Whether they have a long standing relationship or not, I don't know. But I think it's the two of them who are both moles.

[A]

Wow. I see. I'm more suspect of Aaliyah just because she's been suspiciously quiet and it feels like they're tempting us. Anything else for the listeners?

[C]

That means. That means I take Grasso. Yeah. We do have a couple things. We got a Pearl Jam email from Seamus, who notes that Brad Inglesby wrote this great movie called out of the Furnace with Christian Bill, Casey Affleck, Woody Harrelson, and the Pearl Jam song release recurs throughout the whole movie. So Seamus is wondering if, like, Eddie Vedder is just a Brad Inglesby fan and has been. And that's how they got to use Pearl Jam last. In last week's episode or two weeks ago. And then Raina wrote in to say. Just writing in because I was shocked that Bill Simmons didn't pick up on the fact that the priest in Task is the same as the priest in an episode of the Sopranos. Amor Fu, who basically enables Carmela to stop feeling guilty about her marriage to Tony, knowing what he does to make money and just try to live a little more of the humble life so as not to partake or benefit from it. So a Sopranos connection.

[A]

Listen, even the great slip up from time to time, never pass that along to the listener. All right, so episode five we have coming next week. Obviously three left. And it feels like. Feels like shit's gonna really start going down a real way. Plus you got. You're doing the hooked. The hooked thing. We're not going to cover the girlfriend from Amazon, I don't think on the Prestige show because it's very prestigious.

[C]

Are you enjoying it?

[A]

Gave it a whirl. I gave it a whirl.

[C]

Bill, is your household a the summer I turn pretty household?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

Or not so much.

[A]

What are you talking about? I have a 20 year old daughter.

[C]

Yeah. That's what I thought. That's what I thought.

[A]

Staying up in Boston. She's staying up till three in the morning because that's when Amazon puts the new episode on.

[B]

Because Bill's team, I think.

[C]

Are you Team Jer? Are you Team Conrad? What do you think?

[A]

I have not watched the show. I dabbled in just being in the room when it was being watched and made fun of it and was told to leave.

[C]

Being in the room, Dads is my favorite part of the whole. The summer I turned pretty phenomenal. So I love that for you. I think Bill, who has excellent taste, would be Team Conrad. I really do. Well, Team Jerus. My daughter told me to make a mistake, honestly.

[A]

In episode 11, apparently there was this sex scene where they went for it, and my daughter said it was. People were very confused by it. They're like, this is a show for teens. Why did they, like, go for it with a sex scene? What's happening?

[B]

Why would teens want sex? We're all waiting to find out.

[A]

They want, like, the sanitized, like, Amazon teen culture sex. Not like sex. They. She was a little.

[C]

Well, they were in Paris, first of all, and, like, things, you know, things are gonna go the way they're gonna go in Paris. Secondly, when I did talk to Jodi and Nora about the episode, I did say I was worried for the dads of America about that sex scene. So there you go. The show's over, Bill. The finale happened. But there's gonna be a movie, so. So the. The saga continues.

[A]

So did she stop turning pretty, or is she gonna be able to turn pretty again? There's no more summers where she can turn pretty.

[C]

Well, there's gonna be a movie, so there's always more opportunities to turn prettier. Yeah. You know, smart.

[A]

The movie. The turning the TV show into the movie thing actually kind of works.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. The Downton Abbey approach. I think it's going to work.

[A]

The first Sex in the City movie was massive. And then. And sadly, they made a second one. They did one of the worst movies ever made.

[C]

And then sadly, they just kept going with Sex in the City.

[A]

So pretty good. All right, so who do we have to thank?

[C]

Donnie. Donnie Beach.

[A]

Let's thank Donnie for stepping in. Let's thank Justin Sales, as always. And thank you to both of you, Rob and Joanna.

[C]

Great to be.

[A]

Great to spend this hour with you as always. I will see you for episode five.

[B]

Sounds good.

[C]

Bye.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by the all new ESPN app. All of espn all in one place. Your home for the most live sports and best championship moments. It's the ultimate fan experience. Step up your game and get even more than before, with no annual contract required. Level up. For More on the ESPN app or at stream.espn.com Sign up now.

[D]

Your team adjective used to describe an individual whose spirit is unyielding, unconstrained, one who navigates life on their own terms, effortlessly. They do not always show up on time, but when they arrive, you notice an individual confident in their contradictions. They know the rules, but behave as if they do not exist. New Team the new fragrance by Miu Miu, defined by you.