The ‘Battlestar Galactica’ Two-Part Episode That Got Us Hooked

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast Recap

Episode: The ‘Battlestar Galactica’ Two-Part Episode That Got Us Hooked
Date: September 17, 2025
Hosts: Joanna Robinson, Rob Mahoney
Guest: Mallory Rubin

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Overview

This episode dives deep into Battlestar Galactica (BSG), focusing on the two-part season one finale, “Kobol’s Last Gleaming” (S1E12-13), as the episode that got the hosts “hooked” on the show. The roundtable is a passionate tribute to BSG’s world-building, characters, themes, and the high-stakes drama of its best episodes. The discussion includes reflections on personal connections, the impact of the finale episode, and how BSG stands out in modern television, with a special emphasis on why or whether "Kobol’s Last Gleaming" is the ideal entry point.

“This is one of my three favorite shows of all time. Might be my favorite show of all time.”
— Mallory Rubin (04:57)

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. BSG in the TV Pantheon and Personal Connection ([03:00] – [07:07])

• The hosts and guest recount their BSG origin stories and what made the series so impactful for them.
• Mallory Rubin describes BSG as possibly her favorite show ever, highlighting its emotional depth, relationships, and big ideas (faith, identity, humanity, destiny).
• The legacy of Ronald D. Moore’s Trek background and the series’ inventive use of sci-fi tropes, such as human-looking Cylons (a budget-inspired choice that proved vital).
• The “communal fandom” and real-time group viewing experiences the show fostered.
• The importance of ensemble casting: seasoned leads (Edward James Olmos, Mary McDonnell) anchor a cast of relative newcomers, mirroring BSG’s layered character ranks.

“What does it mean to be human? What is worth fighting for? …The way this show explores failure and perseverance is really unmatched.”
— Mallory Rubin (05:10)

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2. Why “Kobol’s Last Gleaming” as the Hook ([11:50] – [17:54])

• While not the pilot nor the typical first recommendation, Mallory picked this finale as it represents the show in full bloom — mythos, action, character conflict, and spiritual overtones all firing.
• The finale is described as BSG fully realizing its themes: prophecy, political and military conflict, personal vs. communal duty.
• High praise for the way the finale propels the narrative, teases out the lore, and leaves viewers desperate for more, though all agree the miniseries is the best actual starting point.

“This is when the show became what it was…a fully realized text that hits on every aspect of what it’s interested in.”
— Mallory Rubin (15:00)

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3. What Makes BSG—and This Two-Parter—Essential ([17:54] – [29:44])

• Faith and Prophecy: “So say we all” evolves from tagline to guiding philosophy. The series broadens its religious and philosophical questions, with “Kobol’s” deepening commitment.
• Interpersonal Drama Above Sci-Fi Tropes: Not simply humans vs. Cylons—internal politics, secrets, betrayals, and conflicting aims.
• Showcase Character Moments:
  • Starbuck’s rogue mission and crisis of faith regarding Adama.
  • Sharon/Boomer’s turmoil (depression, identity struggle, and the shocking attempt on Adama’s life).
  • Gaius Baltar’s comedic, sleazy and chilling manipulation (especially the “suicide” advice scene).
  • The emergence of new mysteries (the first Opera House vision, Cylon pregnancy).
• Ensemble Cast and Relationship Web: Every “main” character gets a showcase. Relationships (Adama & Roslin, Starbuck & Adama, Lee & Starbuck, Sharon & Helo, Baltar & Six) power the drama.

“You could put a writers’ room, lock them up for 100 years, and they wouldn't come up with something as horny and propulsive as this.”
— Rob Mahoney ([29:44])

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4. Essential Scenes & Notable Quotes

Key Scene Timestamps

• [33:12] — The standout Gaius, Sharon, and Six scene (“Life can be a curse…”), showing off Baltar’s unsettling serpentine persona.

  “Sometimes we must embrace that which opens up for us. Life can be a curse as well as a blessing.”
  — Six, via Gaius (34:08)

• [32:07] — Roslin/Adama confrontation (“I didn’t know you were that religious”—“Neither did I”) lays out the central tension of faith and leadership.
• [36:54] — Sharon’s anguish to Helo: “I get cold, Helo. I get sad. I feel things…”
• [41:45] — The trio discuss how Gaius and Six adapt classical villain/antihero roles into a show that makes even the villains ambiguous and essential.

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5. “Who Won the Episode”? ([46:18] – [49:49])

• Mallory: Gaius Baltar — for his range, the impact on major plot threads, and his blend of dark, comedic, and plot-moving energy.
• Rob: “The Sharons” — for both surviving and perpetrating monumental acts (suicide attempt, nuking a Base Star, pregnancy reveal, assassination attempt).
• Joanna: Starbuck (Katie Sackhoff) — for her emotional range, subtlety in interrogating Adama, visceral action moments, and the emotional scream after fighting Six.

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6. Thematic and Period Context ([51:50] – [54:35])

• 2005-ness: Discusses how BSG was “the best show on Sci Fi channel,” the 2000s TV climate’s obsession with faith/science debates (cf. Lost), and how the “man of science, man of faith” dichotomy echoed post-9/11 anxieties and AI fears.
• Visual/style legacy: The budget effects (“janky” but forgiven), documentary-style camerawork, and overtly “network” act-outs before commercial breaks recall early-2000s TV.

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7. Should You Start Here? ([58:09] – [63:10])

• The actual pilot (miniseries) and “33” (S1E1) are discussed as worthy, even necessary, starting points despite this episode’s premise.

  “The miniseries is absolutely dynamite. I think 33 is great. I think everybody should watch both.” (60:26)

• Each starting point’s merits: The miniseries sets relationships and stakes; “33” is high-concept and intense but less about character bonds; “Kobol’s Last Gleaming” is the show fully assembled.
• Other strong early episodes (“You Can’t Go Home Again”) referenced for Adama/Starbuck pathos.

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8. Spoiler Section ([74:23] – [81:59])

(skip for first-time viewers; see robust banter between 74:09 and 81:59)

• Discusses series arcs seeded here: Gaius’ political career, the path to Earth, Opera House visions, Athena/Hera, the transformation of Sharon.
• Adama & Roslin’s journey lauded as one of TV’s best, and why the finale’s choice (focused on their end) redeems any complaints about plot or mythos ambiguity.
• Secret Cylon rewatches are “spicy” — looking for hidden cues.

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Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• "All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again."
  Mallory Rubin, channeling BSG mantra ([01:07])

• "You gotta lose control, let your instincts take over."
  Mallory Rubin, quoting Adama ([13:22])

• "It’s not just humans versus Cylons. Some of the most delicious scenes…are people disappointing each other, withholding…They have a shared aim, but don’t see the path the same way."
  Mallory Rubin ([19:49])

• "Sometimes we must embrace that which opens up for us. Life can be a curse as well as a blessing."
  Six/Baltar ([34:08])

• "Are we boiling the frog too fast? …the miniseries pulls you into the tangible version of the show; we ease into the more religious aspects over time."
  Rob Mahoney ([34:58])

• "You could put a writers’ room, lock them up for 100 years and they wouldn’t come up with something as horny and propulsive as this."
  Rob Mahoney ([29:44])

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Structural & Stylistic Standouts

• World-building: The hosts continually highlight the cohesion and dynamism of BSG's society, from military to political to religious hierarchies.
• Character work over plot: BSG is framed as being most at home in rich, troubled, inter-character conflict rather than just its sci-fi ideas.
• High/low culture mash-up: The show can pivot from Gaius’s mind-palace sexcapades to philosophical rumination on destiny and faith, all within one scene.
• Impact of commercial break structure: A nostalgic appreciation for the “act out” and how it elevated drama in the streaming/pre-streaming crossover era.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:57] — Mallory Rubin on BSG’s personal significance
• [12:19] — Overview of “Kobol’s Last Gleaming”: major plot beats
• [15:00] — Why this two-parter as “the hook”
• [32:07] — Roslin & Adama faith confrontation
• [33:12] — Gaius, Sharon, and Six scene
• [36:54] — Sharon & Helo: "I get cold, Helo…"
• [46:18] — “Who won the episode?” segment
• [51:50] — “Most 2005” thing about the episode
• [58:09] — Miniseries and “33” as pilots; where to start
• [74:23] — Big spoiler section: long-term arcs
• [82:51] — Closing mini-segment: Rob’s check-in on Lost (season 1)

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Final Thoughts

• Battlestar Galactica is upheld as one of sci-fi and television’s crown jewels, largely for its balance of heady and pulpy, action and intimacy, faith and cynicism.
• “Kobol’s Last Gleaming” is the series at its best—delivering lore, stakes, character heartbreak, and jaw-dropping reversals. It’s the episode that proves BSG is essential, but the consensus is still: START WITH THE MINISERIES.
• The toolkit that makes BSG “hooky”: secrets, shifting allegiances, biblical stakes, genre-breaking structure, and just enough soap-opera sex appeal.
• The cast’s interplay—anchored by Olmos, McDonnell, Sackhoff, Callis, Helfer et al.—makes every combination feel essential and fresh.
• The spoiler section reveals how thoroughly “Kobol’s Last Gleaming” seeds the show’s endgame, especially regarding prophecy, the mystery of Cylons’ identities, and Roslin/Adama’s ultimate fate.

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For Newcomers & Superfans

Whether you’re new to BSG and want to understand its pull, or a longtime fan seeking to relive the thrill, this episode delivers heartfelt testimony, shrewd analysis, and plenty of laughs. Just remember: “All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.” So say we all.

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Skip the ads, watch the miniseries, and dive headfirst into one of TV’s greatest ensemble dramas.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[A]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[B]

And we are here with a very special guest here to talk to us for our hooked Battlestar Galactica podcast. I could only think of one possible person. Is she a Cylon? Hard to say. She doesn't sleep and she remembers everything, so she might be. It's Molly Rubin.

[C]

Oh, Joanna. Rob. All of this has happened before, including when we recorded together for multiple hours just this morning. And all of this will happen again. The thrill of my life to be here with you guys today. I mean, always a thrill of my life to pod with you both. But to talk about my favorite show, I just. I can't believe it.

[B]

A lot of faves going around. Mallory and I are watching Buffy over on House of Our. Rob and I checked it on Lost and we will get another Rob. The. The people are clamoring for a Rob Lost check in. So we will do that at the end. They really are. We will do that at the end of this podcast. Rob will let us know how it's going over on the island.

[A]

But, yeah, I mean, but, Joe, I mean, as a testimonial, again, like, I am fully hooked. Like, I am. I'm. I am so hooked. I cannot put it down. I'm so hooked. I basically got Covid as an excuse to mainline episodes. You know, it does. Our podcast does work.

[B]

It turns out we didn't just hook Rob, we hooked Rob's wife. The whole family is now watching Lost. It's. It's very exciting. So, yeah, if you're just joining us for the first time for a hooked episode of the Prestige TV podcast, What we've been doing is going through some big and also Veronica Mars television shows that we love.

[A]

Be respectful. Big to me and big to the world.

[B]

And asking ourselves a question, if you were trying to get a friend or a partner to watch watch a show with you, what's the one episode you would show them to get them hooked.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

If it's not the pilot. So with. In the case of Lost, we watched the pilot and all these other discussions, we have not been picking the pilot. We let our guest today, Mallory Rubin, pick the episode that we would talk about. And we'll get to that in a second. Quick, the briefest, and I should say there's a lot to talk about. There's three of us here today. We're going to do our best to get through everything that we have to say, but we all are very passionate about this and I'm so excited that Mallory's here. Here's a. Here's a quick snapshot of Battlestar Galactica. If folks are new to this concept, okay. Battlestar Galactica was a reboot of a 70 show with its own very complicated backstory, which we don't have time for, which first became a miniseries in 2003 and then ran for four seasons and two movies from 2005, at least in the US to 2009. It put the Sci Fi Channel on the map, perhaps inspiring the schmancier sci fi sy fy rebranding in 2009. So spawned two ill advised spin offs, gave us all complicated feelings about tank top layering, and inspired the greatest Portlandia sketch of all time, undeniably.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Is this a backdoor James Callis Bass promo for upcoming Slow Horses coverage? Who's to say? I couldn't tell you.

[A]

I am to say, Joe, because he's basically playing Gaius Baltar again on Slow Horses and we.

[B]

I wish his character on Slow Horses was as sharp as Gaius Baltar is. And I think he's a little. A little Jupiter on Slow Horses.

[C]

Anyway.

[A]

Also, I have to challenge you a little bit, you know, Caprica slander.

[B]

I knew, I knew. I knew you were gonna. I knew you were gonna. I knew it.

[C]

Nobody on Zoom today will defend Blood and Chrome, I don't think. But I was pretty sad when Caprica got canceled.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

A fun fact that I want to say about the precious stew that is Battlestar Galactica is that when it premiered in 1970s, in the 1970s, it was so close to Star wars that George Lucas and Fox, like, successfully sued them over it. Ron Moore, of course, came from a Star Trek background. He's a Next gen D space 9 guy, so he brings that sensibility over. They're inspired by aliens. And also Rob's favorite, West Wing is also something they were deeply inspired by making this. It's just like crossroads of so many impactful IPs inside. And it is like one of the best examples of what to do with rebooted ip. Mallory Rubin, what is the personal significance for you? Battlestar Galactica.

[C]

This is one of my three favorite shows of all time. Might be my favorite show of all time. I'll be curious to check in with myself on that and with you guys after I finish this rewatch, which this one podcast has started for me.

[B]

Another satisfied customer causing trouble all across the.

[C]

Yeah, as Joe knows, my husband Adam and I, this is a shared favorite of ours, and we, you know, have watched it start to finish together a couple times, and we've been talking for the last few years about how we were really overdue for a rewatch, so we didn't need much of an excuse to dive back in. This was like the gentlest twist our arms, why don't you? That we've maybe ever had. But I just adore this show. And it's like one of the first shows, actually, along with Lost, one of my other top shows of all time that Adam and I, like, really fell deeply into together. So it's like a big part of our relationship and just something we really love. The writing, the acting, the directing, the scoring, the formal and structural innovation, the tone, the ideas. You know, I think, like, it's a. As Joe already kind of hit on, like, a new and very particular spin on a classic concept. What does it mean to be human? What is worth fighting for? How do you think about rebuilding? What are you even trying to rebuild if you've already lost? Right. That's where we start, is that they've lost. And that is just such a delicious place to be. The way that this show across its seasons and its movies, explores simultaneously the human capacity for failure and perseverance is, I think, really unmatched. The characters, to me, are indelible. These are just some of my favorite characters in a show ever. And the relationships that they share with each other, which we'll talk about, you know, some of the showcase moments for those in the episodes that we chose, just the best. The way that the show explores identity, faith, the things that we love to talk about, you know, prophecy, religion, the idea of destiny, our role in the. The affairs that guide the world, the choices that you make, the conflict that you face, the way that personal and professional obligations are often on a collision course with each other. It's just the perfect brew of all the things I love. So say we all.

[A]

So say we all. It is hard to overstate, maybe impossible to overstate, how much this show fucking rules. It is so Good. It has been so long since I have spent a significant amount of time with it. Love that actually watched it more or less in real time. A little slight delay, but caught up. I haven't seen it start to finish then in 15 years, basically. And so a show that I have a long lasting relationship with, but have been plucking episodes for rewatches here and there. It has been such a delight to be back in this world again, especially flashing back to my college apartment. On the walls of my college apartment, I had various prints from the basketball blogging collective Free Darko. I had a couple of movie posters. Empire Strikes Back, Taxi Driver, I'm sorry, I Am who I Am. The Australian Western, the Proposition was represented. And most notably in our case today, the giant widescreen Last Supper photo print of the Battlestar Galactica cast. Speaking of iconic. Just a show that knew, I think maybe not even right out of the gate exactly what it wanted to be, but found it and secured it so tightly in terms of tone, in terms of ideas. Like there's so much happening here. And I think ultimately, Joe, this is just one of the great world building successes in modern television history, which makes me a little. It's a little bittersweet to not be picking the miniseries because the miniseries is really good.

[B]

It rips and we'll talk about it. We will definitely talk about it. Rob, did you know that I own the Proposition on dvd?

[A]

I mean, as you should. That movie is amazing.

[B]

I feel like that doesn't mean much when it comes from someone who has like a huge DVD collection. But I literally have like two shelves of DVDs and one of them.

[A]

This is the proposition. One of 30 DVDs that you own is the Proposition.

[B]

Exactly. With my Veronica Mars box sets. Okay, anyway, listen, my experience with Battlestar Galactica is I did not watch it when it originally aired. And in fact, I was just like in the process of meeting a new friend group while it was airing. And they would get together every week and make dinner and watch Battlestar Galactica and no one ever invited me. And that's okay because I was new to the friend group, but I was like. But I wasn't watching the show. No, no. So they just like didn't consider it. They had been doing it for like a couple years. And I would just hear about it. I'd be like, oh my God, I want to be invited over to make dinner and watch a TV show together. And it was like a different, a much nerdier group of friends than I had ever hung out with before. And it was my real introduction to that kind of really communal spirit around something as deeply nerdy and fandomy as Battlestar Galactica. So this is like, we've talked about how Buffy Vampire Slayer introduced me to, like, message boards. This introduced me into, like, real time share the room with the people you love and watch the thing together and then talk about it kind of fandom. I watched it later on, like, I believe, discs that I ordered through Netflix. And then eventually, like, got the box set, like, really sick box set for Battlestar Galactica just because I was like, I feel like I'm missing this really important thing and I want to know what everyone's talking about in terms of, like, you know, Mallory hitting the theme so beautifully. Rob talking about sort of its place in the larger pantheon of world building. Something I love about Battlestar Galactica is that they employed so many writers that have worked on other things that I've loved, including, like, thinking about Ron Moore bringing his Star Trek brain bringing, like, his Deep Space Nine. You know, what it means to be the captain of something. Cisco Brain to Adama, something like that. Like, all that stuff. The nuts and bolts of the writers room around this are really interesting to me. And I've been listening my. My friend front of the pod, Mark Bernardin, hosted a Battlestar Galactica podcast, Rewatch with Trisha Helfer. And I was re listening to some episodes and I was shocked to hear Ron Moore say that when they were sort of first kicking around this ip, the reason they came up with having the Cylons look like humans was a budgetary one. They didn't have the budget to just do. And so they're like, oh, what if they just look like humans? That's the show. Like, that is the show. And it's like necessity being the mother of invention. Like, I love this shit. I love when you're just like, backed into a corner. You're like, huh? Well, what if they look like humans? Oh. Oh, my God. That just changes everything.

[A]

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[B]

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[B]

That is Battlestar Galactica to me. So here's the spoiler warning. We. We will talk a Little bit about the miniseries. We might also talk about 33, which is season one, episode one. So there's a complicated sort of like there are a couple different pilots, quote unquote, for the show, but Mallory Rubin has chosen the season one finale two parter. Yeah. Season one, episode 12, and season one, episode 13, cobalt's last gleaming.

[A]

Incredible shit.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

So spoiler warning up through the season one finale of Battlestar. I'm going to give this to you for in a second, Mallory, to sort of tell us why it was this pick, but just to refresh, people. This was story by David Icke tell a play by Ron Moore, directed by Michael Reimer, who directed both 33 and the miniseries as well. This is the one where things get real religious. Starbuck goes rogue for the first and very last time in search of a prophecy artifact. The Opera House makes its first appearance. Sharon. One Sharon tries to kill herself and fails. Hilo tries to kill the other Sharon and fails. And the first Sharon tries to kill Commander Adama. Does she succeed? Tune in next season to find out that Cobal's last gleaming. Mallory. This is even wilder than Rob's Veronica Mars picks, which. Which was like a few episodes deep into season one. We gave you no limits. We said you could pick whatever you wanted to pick.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Tell us why it was Cobalt's last gleaming for you.

[C]

Should we also get into here why it's not 33 in the miniseries or save that? I guess I'll do like a very big picture opening snapshot. We'll get to that. Yeah. To quote my favorite television character of all time, William Adama, Commander Adama, you gotta lose control at your instincts take over.

[B]

So when presented with this prompt, when knuckle. Like bare knuckle boxing your son.

[C]

Exactly. That's what I did. I would like to, without fully undermining this episode of this series that I love that you guys are doing. Say I am a terrible guest for Hooked, because I would never, as you both know, genuinely never actually suggest that somebody start anywhere other than the miniseries. Never. But I think what you guys are trying to do here is really interesting. And I think acknowledging that for some people, the barrier to entry of three hours for the miniseries is maybe too high. And then also the question people have of whether they're even supposed to start there. It's not listed on an episode guide half the time. I want to acknowledge that. So we'll get to some of the other considerations with that in 33 later. But I will say this is not to me saying people should start the show here. People should start the show with the first second and watch every second of it and then feel that their life is enriched and better than it was before they shared that experience. So I'm not prepared to argue that. What I am prepared to argue is that the two part season one finale, Cobalt's Last gleaming parts one and two is not only in keeping with I think the battlestar is like TV's holy grail for the premieres and finales. The mid season breaks are always actually fucking amazing and every other television show wishes they could could do that. And they're often two part bangers. I feel it's representative in that respect. I think that this is like this connects to something you guys have been talking about a lot. This is when I think the show became what it was going to be the rest of the way. This is when the show became a fully realized text that hits on every single aspect of what it is interested in exploring in all of the seasons that will follow. And I think it does so beautifully. I think the way that it in greens, it entwines action, propulsive plot.

[B]

But.

[C]

Is always rooted in complex character dynamics. It's a big expansion of the lore and the mythology and I think actually weirdly it's like we could parse this more but kind of like spoiler light in terms of going back after you watch this and revisiting the first season. I don't think it saps a ton of on that front. Certainly there are things that you learn here that you do not know before. But I think it's less damaging in that respect than some season finales could otherwise be. So I think it's the best thing to show somebody before you go too deep into like season two, three, four, which you would never do. That would be unthinkable to say. This is why this is one of the best television shows ever made. You're asking me why in 2025? I'm trying to get you to watch another story about AI taking over mankind, human beings being undone by their creation. I need you to understand right away that this is distinct and this is God tier and I think Kobold's Last Gleaming shows that in a way that I think 33 does not.

[A]

Well, I am surprised none that the hosts of House of Var when both given a chance to nominate a hooked episode, both smuggled in two parters. This is, this is not shocking to me. That said, look, this is deep into the obviously it's the season one finale you're going to have missed some stuff. It is a tough entry point, per the hooked premise, as you alluded to. Mal. You should start with the miniseries, full stop. You should start with the miniseries.

[B]

Absolutely you should.

[A]

But I think part of the reason we want to talk about Battlestar Galactica at least, certainly part of the reason I want to. This is another show that has, I think, a pretty high barrier to entry between the miniseries element and most importantly, the name Battlestar Galactica self selects for a certain kind of viewer. And Kobold's Last Gleaming is a great entry point for people who don't think they want to watch Battlestar Galactica to show them all of those different colors that you're talking about, Mal, all the different dimensions that the show's ultimately going to be able to fold in. You put this on and it's not like if you haven't been watching or you're coming in as an entry point, you're not going to know everything that's happening. Clearly there's going to be some things that are beyond you, but everything that you're absorbing makes you want to know where these characters have been and where these characters are going to go. And that I think that makes it a good, hooked episode.

[B]

I think also, as I mentioned, and we will get to, as we talk about a little bit more, but this idea of prophecy or belief is part of the whole series from the beginning. So say we all is all about, you know, this is a religious call and response, you know, that Adama adopts in at the end of the miniseries. Right. So, like, that's not new to this episode, but it levels up in a significant way in this episode that feels so impactful to the rest of the series and the way in which, you know, Ron Moore announces, like, we're not shying away from this at all. We are doubling down on this. Something that I found out that I didn't know in preparation for this is that I didn't know that the original creator of Battlestar Galactica was Mormon. And I was like, once I found. Once I learned that, I was like, oh, this is real.

[A]

It's all right there under the banner.

[B]

Of heaven stuff in terms of, like, the visions and are they real or are they hallucinations? And all these other things are all sort of like baked into that. So. And. And I think a lot of people watching this show not understanding that, you know, we're not going to talk about this, but, like, the show has a sort of infamous ending that not a lot of people vibe with. But if you Go back to this episode and you realize that, like, you really have to invest in this idea of faith, belief, divine intervention, all these other things. Then the ending sort of definitely, you know, they were like, we were directing our arrow towards that this whole time. And so I'm really glad you picked it. Mal. I had a really good time. I the best time watching the miniseries, then 33, then the episode before. Because I, unlike Mallory, I'm not as committed to watching the entire season this weekend.

[A]

But I was like, just exceptional guest work from Mal. We asked her to come on. She watches a whole season.

[B]

I was like, oh, I watched seven hours. I'm so committed. And Mallory's like, I watched 15 hours. I was like, wow, I'm a jump man.

[C]

But I just like, the workday ended on Friday. I booted up the miniseries and I was like, there's just absolute, absolutely no question that I'm going to watch every episode through the finale and then we'll continue and watch the whole series from here. So, like, in some ways, I think that's just, you know, making the case that maybe the pick again should have been the miniseries. And none of us are actually arguing against that. This is more of the case for Kobold's Last Gleaming, I think, than against the miniseries. It was just the joy of my life to spend Friday night and Saturday rewatching the miniseries in season one. And I can't wait to rewatch the whole show. And I think, like another thing that Kobal's Last Gleaming encapsulates and presents to people really well is like a lot of the tension and a lot of the infighting is happening between the people. Like, it's not just humans versus Cylons. It's never that simple. And some of the most delicious scenes in these two episodes are people disappointing each other, withholding from each other. They have a shared aim, the preservation and restoration of humanity. They don't always see the path to that aim the same way. And this is, I think, a good episode. And that's so central to the series, like, obviously across the season. So I think that's very present here.

[B]

Again, I don't want to say like, you should just watch the miniseries, but that was like one of my earliest notes for the miniseries is like how well it sets up immediately. Yeah, conflict between Adama and Apollo or, you know, Starbuck and Ty, or, you know, like just out the jump. Here are all the people who don't get along, who have pre existing beef that we are laying out for you really quickly. There's also the way in which so many people have a secret. There are secrets everywhere and that, you know. So there's like, oh, I don't know, conflict inside of the human heart, one might say. But it's very different from the discussion Rob and I had last week about Lost, which is the premise being these are strangers and they're getting to know each other. So we're getting to know them as they know each other. And they do all have secrets and there is conflict, but it comes from bumping up against someone new. These are people, you know, with the exception of like Rosalind and Adama, who don't have a long history before it starts. But like these are people who have known each other.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that's a problem. And now they're humanity's last hope and we have to like plow into the future through all of our history. And that is just absolutely incredible television.

[A]

I think, especially when you take the miniseries as plot wise. What is supposed to be the end of something, right? Like the Galactica is being decommissioned. The crew, like people are retiring, people are shifting off. Like this is supposed to be the end of the road. And then on the last day of school, everyone is informed, oh wait, you are now in school forever and ever. Amen. Until basically fighting for your lives on a daily basis. And to sort of take all of that baggage, supercharge it by the stakes, infuse the new characters. And that explains a lot of how we get to where we get in Kobold's last gleaming in terms of it was never gonna be enough to just have the future sociopolitical thriller in space. We also need some prophecy. We're also gonna need these kind of extra elements that are going to charge the plot, that are gonna give these characters even more reasons to bump up against each other, that are gonna create so much tension between the world of what is tangible and empirical and what is believable by faith.

[C]

Yeah. And I think that this like the two part finale in terms of how it takes the already inherently complex nature of what like you guys are both outlining with you take your history. It's fraught because how could it not be? Any history between two people is going to be definitionally. And then you heighten it in such an extreme fashion. And whether it is the fact that this was is your boss or your friend or the person who was engaged to your dead son or whatever the relationship might be. And then you say, okay, the reason that that loyalty exists is complicated. It can't, it can't move on the same straight course that the arrow can, Apollo's or otherwise, the one pointing toward the finale, as Jo Line explained. So, like, I just think that this is such an incredible way to say, like, okay, we have a quest. We had a quest. Initially, it was survive. We have a quest again. And the way that the quest continues to unfurl and the different layers of it, like COBOL and what it represents in the way that it kind of encapsulates this idea of the past guiding the future. Even though I think the appreciation of it is, of course, enhanced by watching the miniseries and then every episode of the first season. I think the first season of the show is like, dynamite. Really, really good. The second season. The second season is my personal favorite. It's one of my favorite seasons of television ever made. But the first season is incredible. All that said, like, I think to your point from earlier, Rob, my hope is that if anyone actually followed the prompt of Hook to watch this, they would want to go back to the beginning. This is such a propulsive, almost new pilot, because it's like, okay, we've found this place that was here before, and what do these visions mean? And is this a place we can be? And how long can we hide? And, like, the reveals that we are.

[B]

Cylons can have babies now, theoretically, allegedly.

[C]

It's all. All part of the plan. The fact that, like, we know already that Boomer is a Cylon does not SAP anything about Boomer having to confront other versions of herself about Sharon having that moment in the Beast Star, or what hap. Like, what passes on Starbucks face. Okay, I. I went against the old man. I had to not only decide to do that, but I had to face the fact that he let me down, this person. I have put all of my stock into, the person who gave us hope that I learned was false. And then I get there and I'm faced with the most damning question of all, which is like, do I even know who's in the bunk next to me? Right? Like, it's just such an incredibly rich and interesting text.

[B]

I also just think it's so. We. We. We talked about this a bit when we were talking about Buffy season one over on House of R. But, like, this idea of a show that never knows when it's going to be canceled. And that's what. Battlestar Galactica was constantly under threat of cancellation by Sci Fi. But unlike some, Unlike what Buffy did, which is like, we'll give you a finale that feels like, we did it. We saved the world. End of Sentence, Right? Don't worry about it. Ron Moore and his writers, their attitude was, fuck them. I dare them to cancel us. The fans will be so mad if they cancel us with a Dahmer bleeding out on a console. Like, imagine that. And so to Mallory's point, these mid season and finale moments, these dramatic moments are just, you know, to that Portlandia sketches credit, you gotta be like, next, next, next, next. One more, one more.

[C]

You scream. I think also this is a sexy two parter and it's a funny two parter. And battle circle action is very introspective, very heavy, very. It's not only philosophical, it's existent, downright existential. And so I don't think we can understate the import always of Gaius Baltar. And like, that is, I should say actually that weirdly feels to me like the biggest. Wait, you started here? You're spoiled on something more so than even like, oh, okay, six is a Cylon, Boomer's a Cylon. We learned the identity of four Cylons in the miniseries. Only two of them are featured here. Like, I think it's that. That weirdly feels kind of okay to me. Gaius. Career ascension.

[B]

What a lord Status is a little bit more Vice President Baltar. Yeah.

[C]

What? How did we get here?

[B]

Wrecking ball.

[C]

But it's just such an incredibly funny Gaius episode in a way that feels very entwined to these big picture like tent poles that we're talking about. You can't compete with me. Born out of the insecurity and the jealousy and the way that connects to everything going on with Lee and Starbuck. Starbuck, another one of my favorite television characters of all time because I'm a screw up. Lee. Try to keep that in mind. I think a line in a moment like that perfectly encapsulates what Joe's talking about is if you watch that, you're like, I don't just care about where these characters are going. I need to understand how they've been there. And I think weirdly, this episode like preserves a lot of that.

[A]

It really does.

[B]

There's also the hookiness based in, built into the premise of this. And again, I, I appreciate the high flown ideas of Battlestar Galactica. And then I feel, I appreciate the sort of like really like street corner, want another taste like ideas of secret Cylons. Right? So, so in, in 2005, when we're just really getting into like message board podcast theorizing culture around shows, you know, like Lost was like a big early example of that. Who's the Secret Cylon or who are the secret silence or who are these other Cylons. Being something that pulls at your gut and just gets you to like debate and talk and, and parse over clues and stuff like that. And then also this is another just sort of like I no shame in the game. Mal mentioned this in, in a group chat. We were in this like earlier. But the fact that at any moment you could have a sex scene and you don't even need any build up to it. You just need Gaius Beltar to go to like his, his Vancouver mind palace where, where the hottest world women alive, Trisha Helfer is there to like make out with him and have sex with him. That's not even the sex you're talking about, but that is available at any given time inside of an episode of Battlestar Galactica. So they can always have sex. They don't even need to lead up to it at all. And they always have a mystery going right up till the end of like what who is that? What's going on? And that's just like that's television crack in a way that I, I just like, I really admire because it is paired with these heady, high flown ideas about philosophy, religion, politics, human nature, all these sort of things and it's just a perfect combination. High, low.

[A]

You know, you could put a writer's room, lock them up for 100 years and they wouldn't come up with something as horny and propulsive as this. Like it is just a perfect concoction. I look forward to seeing what they come up with. If it's, if it's better than this, I'm glad to eat my hat on it.

[B]

All right, so we have some questions we like to ask as we go through considering this two parter which again we're also like. You should watch the miniseries too. Five hours of television, low, low stakes to recommend and then you should just watch 33 and then the rest of the show. Okay, that's great. Is the setting slash location for this episode typical or atypical of the larger season? Does that matter? I think with something like Battlestar where we're like doing dog fights in space constantly, we're on, you know, the Battlestar Battlestar, we're on the Colonial One and we're on multiple planets. That's, that's fairly typical of any given episode. That's the show right? Are enough slash most of the main or important characters represented here. Does that matter? Mallory, what do you want to say about the storylines that we're following? Inside of this episode.

[C]

I'm gonna just try so, so, so hard to not say anything that I shouldn't say. I think that this episode is these two episodes are actually slightly more Boomer Sharon forward than maybe like I like I would not say that even though I love these episodes are they're not my absolute like favorite battles or episodes. Almost every single thing that I would pick for like my favorite battles are episode would be very, very, very oriented around Roslyn and Adama.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That said, I think we still get some not only delicious Roslyn Adama action in these two episodes. It is a wonderful. Even though for us it's at the end of a 15 episode including the miniseries experience. If you're coming to it fresh, you're like this dynamic to me is riveting. Right. So I think we get a couple scenes that between them, you know, the scene in the Office in particular where Roslyn is presenting her intention to Adama and then of course the like very active challenge and the fact that these two figures who did not expect to find themselves either of them in this circumstance to begin with are in such active opposition inside of this episode. Incredibly interesting and potent to watch. I'll save my further thoughts on that till the end of the podcast when.

[A]

When Rosalind lays out her plan and Adam responds with I didn't know you were that religious.

[C]

I honestly love that moment because then she says like neither did I. I something wrong with that. And he says no, it's just new. And to me that's like the show, you know, the idea that it's just as much about discovering what you believe in as a at a given moment as like whether all of humankind is going to survive and whether you should the so the Roslyn Adama of it all and then Rosalind's appeal to Starbucks. Starbucks feeling it out with Adama and then obviously everything also with Lee and Adama. I think it is not a spoiler that that group of characters and of course then Gaius and Six are just like the most important characters of the show and they're all prominently featured here. And then Boomer Sharon is certainly also main core cast. And I think it's like given a number of fascinating and really riveting showcases in this episode. The scene with Chief gut wrenching, the scene with Adama moving, the scene with Gaius.

[B]

That's my. That's to me the standout of the.

[C]

Two parter put it into the hall of fame for like why the guys in particular is an all time character.

[B]

I think Trisha. Trisha and James and Grace all in that scene are just, like, incredible. Just really incredible. And, like, you get. You get incredible human drama. You get this, like, reaction from six of, like, I actually didn't even know you were capable of that. You get this reaction from both of them after that. As. As, you know, if you haven't rewatch this episode, Guys, like, guys knows that Boomer is a Cylon.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

She's basically saying, like, I don't know what's wrong. She doesn't know. She's a. Silence. She's like, I don't know what's wrong with me. I don't know what's going on. I'm thinking basically of killing myself. And he's like, you should.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But in much more nuanced, seductive language than that.

[A]

And so he is like, more plausible, deniable language than that.

[B]

And it's a very.

[C]

Sometimes we must embrace that which opens up for us. Life can be a curse as well as a blessing. This is one of the most insidious things we've ever witnessed.

[A]

It's gross.

[B]

It's so serpenty, seductive, like, biblical moment. And then you've got this, like, angelic figure just watching, but also, like, complicit. It's. It's a fascinating dynamic that you can't explain to people outside of. You're like, here's this woman. She's in his head. But also not maybe. Who's to say? This is a woman who is Asylum, but she doesn't know that. You know, like, to try to explain all the. All the context of what's going on here is, like, downright impossible. And you don't even actually need that context because the human drama that's present inside of that scene, inside of this complicated premise, is so potent. I just was jaw on the floor watching it. So good.

[A]

My only concern with picking these episodes is like, are we. Are we boiling the frog too fast? Like, there's a degree of this show where it's like the miniseries kind of pulls you into the very tangible version of the show. And then we ease into the more religious aspects over time. You know, not having the background about imaginary. Maybe not imaginary. Six in Gaius Head. That's a hard thing to just, like, throw an audience into. And yet you're right, Joe. Like, you put it together pretty quickly. Okay? This person is actually not in this room. This conversation is taking place along these lines. And what makes Battlestar Galactica. Battlestar Galactica is Gaius and Sharon have that serpentine conversation. He leaves the room and she pulls the trigger. And I can't tell you how many other shows she doesn't. She reconsiders. She goes through some other crisis, someone else stops her. But this is a show for all the hand wringing you and I have been doing on task, Joe, about like, whether this child will live or die, that 10 minutes into the miniseries, a Cylon breaks a baby's neck.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Horrifying.

[A]

And you can get away with that when you're about to nuke the whole planet because everything's about to be dead anyway. But still, they do not shy away from any of the very real consequences of any of these characters actions. And the reason that every line that every dynamic that everything you laid out, Mal, in terms of, you know, Adam and Rosalind and their kind of proxy war among themselves and kind of how Sharon factors and how Starbuck factors, and it's like all that human drama matters because these people are in actual peril all the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think the fact that like, okay, we see Sharon enter the base, star this mission, drop the nuke. Right. And confront all of these other versions of Naked, I might add, I wonder why Rob was okay with doing these episodes of herself. And the fact that we, if this is your first exposure to the show, understand that there are copies, there are models, there are a number of different versions, does not in any way diminish. I think the anguish of watching the Hilo Sharon scenes where she's like, I get cold, Hilo.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Like, I get sad. I feel things. And like, our perspective inherently that we bring to a story like this is, the humans are good, the machines are bad.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think the way that this show consistently challenges that without pulling us out of it completely is very, very interesting. And this is certainly a complex time to be engaging with those ideas, but I think it's just more a more deft examination of that. Right. And the fact that like something like Roslyn presenting her views on prophecy and like basically saying. Not basically literally saying to Starbuck, like, can I tell you about my role in this? Like, I'm the one who's going to lead us there. There are so many versions of that where that is bizarre. Off putting alienating something. And with Roslyn, it's like, I love the way that she says, you know, people keep telling me it's crazy. Like, that doesn't mean it's not true. You know, and that she's leaning into the fact that this is a journey of discovery for her as well.

[B]

You Love that concept.

[A]

Somehow I knew Mal was going to bring that up in the, like, it's all in my head. That doesn't mean it's not true kind of sense. It's just catness.

[C]

It really is. It really is.

[B]

Yeah. And I think what's important about all these characters is that, you know, inside of that moment, Rosalind is doing what she believes, which is she believes they need this artifact, blah, blah. But is she also, in her calculation, saying to herself, I need to tell Starbuck, who is intensely loyal, that her hero, her father figure, lied to her in order to get her to do what I need her to do? Yes. And that is someone, you know in. In just the episode previous, you know, she is. She's given a stern talking to by her colleague who she is, quote, unquote, portrayed about like, I never saw. Thought you could be in the snake pit with all the other politicians, but guess what? You fit right in. It's like Roslyn is, you know, someone who we meet having to make incredibly difficult, gut wrenching many lives in the lines decisions. And over the course of this season, we're watching the series, just watching what that does to a person and who. And who we meet here at the end of the season and who we meet here at the end of the season is even more interesting than the very interesting person that we met in the miniseries. And Mary McDonnell and Edward James Olmos as like the two mom and dad and Michael and Michael Hogan who plays Ty, were like the three, like really experienced actors that they brought onto this production. And then you cast a bunch of other people who have, like, yeah, I've been doing stuff like Trisha Alfred done like anything. Katie Sackhoff had done like a few. You know, like, you bring these other people who are much greener in. And so you have this natural dynamic of leader and like, subordinate and all these other things. It's just like, it's a really fascinating construction.

[A]

I mean, that's where you get kind of a West Wing effect too. I mean, slightly different cast in terms of experience, but it's like you put Martin Sheen at the center of a show like that and everything kind of just falls into place and context. Edward James almost like, could not be better in this show, and Mary McDonald could not be better in this show. And their chemistry together and the way those characters are written to bounce off of each other is just scintillating tv. And again, the fact that every other dynamic, especially within these two episodes, kind of folds into theirs. And maybe with the exception of The Six Gaius. Some of the Six Gaius stuff, or some of the Gaius and his sense of self preservation stuff, which is really just an ongoing plotline that the show is perpetually concerned with. That is the magic of what makes Battlestar work structurally.

[B]

But you need that fun of Six and Gaius and like, the fact that.

[A]

Like, that was a feature, not a bug.

[B]

Yeah. Mary McDonald or just Laura Roslin is someone that you could just like, pluck out of the show and put her in the west wing. And she just fits there in that show, which is stunning. You know, Gaius and Six are of this show. Yeah, undeniably. And that's not a knock on Roslyn, who I love. But I just for me, the show is Gaius and Six. Yeah. And like my confusion around. My persistent confusion around what's real and what's not, but what's always sexy, what's always fun, was always fun, smart, was always cunning. I love a villain and. But then also a villain who. I'm like, I'm not even sure I would call you a villain, actually. At the end of the day, I'm actually not confident about that. And so, you know, I. Anytime that Mallory brings up Roslyn and Adama and how much she loves their dynamic and how important they are to her, I love hearing you talk about that. And I also love that for me, the show is something a little different, which is this other thing. And you need all those things. Things that make the show, you know.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. I think, like, I. I really love the way you put it that Gaius and 6 feel like. Of this world in a way that they don't make sense necessarily in any other universe. I. I think that this is one of the more successful ensemble casts in TV history. And like, the fact that there are so many different pairings like, that people could form that level of attachment to and devotion to.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, I can't think about my life. Life as a tv. TV viewer without thinking about Adamant Roslyn. Like, I can't. But the consistently most entertaining part of watching the show for me is. Is guys, for sure. You know, guys at six. So, like, I love that it's all there and I think it has to all be there. Like, that's the. That's the just of a piece with all the stuff we're talking about today about. It's like this level of. Of variance and specificity that makes it feel so fully realized. Like, it's not just that we're watching people talk about what we need inside of a society. You believe that this is a society that it was that they want it to be again because of how fully realized and rich it is.

[B]

You know, I. I have an important question for you, Mallory. In terms of like all the conversations that they have about like, we need to protect our democracy, our like, blah, blah, all of our way of life, blah, blah, Would you say that survival is insufficient inside of something like this or.

[C]

I would indeed. I would say. I would.

[A]

That's crazy.

[C]

Yes. I would not say survive and endure. I would say survival is insufficient for sure.

[B]

Rob, do you have a relationship that feels like the most core to this show that you. That you're most invested in?

[A]

I am also an Adama and Rosalind guy. But like, again, it's. It's extremely hard to pick and choose favorites. It is. It's so difficult, especially within the context of like, the Lee Adama stuff is also so rich and the. And the Lee Starbucks stuff is so rich. It's great the way that those three characters end up triangulating, of course, because Starbuck has her own complicated relationship with Adama and like their own kind of secret language. In a lot of ways, it's like.

[C]

Starbuck Adama is like second on my list, honestly.

[A]

They speak in a code that I just find endlessly fascinating.

[C]

And like Starbucks.

[B]

Nothing but the rain.

[A]

Nothing but the rain scene again. It's just like they're just coming out of the gate with this stuff.

[B]

Yeah, that's right at the start. It's like right at the start, which is stunning.

[A]

And to build and build and build to the point that we get to Kobold's last gleaming, where you have all of that, the urn, history we talked about the world building that was there from the jump, that dialogue, those dynamics. And now we're just getting into a richness of ideas where we are iterating on iterating on iterating on iterating. And I think it is a great example of how far the show can go while at the same time we're just scratching the surface.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[B]

If we were to play the honorary Bill Simmons who won the episode game? The Give out a trophy. Just one trophy, Mallory. No cheating. Just one trophy. Who wins this episode?

[C]

I think it has to be Gaius.

[B]

Okay. Why?

[C]

As much as I'm always inclined to want to pick Adam or Rosalind, I think yeah, it's got to be Gaius or Sharon. To me, I think they just carry the most weight. And for Gaius, this is always the case. I think it's the number of different flavors that he gives us. The fact that we already talked about that scene that we all adore with Gaius and Sharon and six and I think something that is as emotionally rich and dark as that, paired with his frankly, like, insecure male egomania at the card table, paired with his complete breakdown when they crash, paired with as. As is so often the case. I mean, we have Roslyn and Alosha like outright discussing prophecy, but Gaius is the one taking us into that the ruins of the temple for the first time. He touches every strand of the tapestry across these two episodes and it's Just, just the performance is. It's so entertaining. Like, I just think if you're trying to compel someone to watch the show, my hope is that they would come to consider Adama one of the most important figures in their life. If they watch these two episodes, I think they would say, why have I not heard everybody around me every minute of every day talking about, guys, Baltar, great, great pick.

[B]

Ramahoney.

[A]

I am gonna cheat. I'm sorry. It is, it's the Sharon's. I think it's all the Sharon.

[B]

That's, that's. I think that's, that's a fair cheat.

[A]

I mean, the Charon who wants to continue to be Boomer manages to survive her own suicide and then pull off what is basically a suicide mission to nuke a Cylon based ship. That's a win as far as I'm concerned. But the Cylon sleeping within her also wins because it awakens at the worst possible time to shoot Adama in the gut or the chest several times. And the other Sharon also wins because she convinces Hilo to keep her alive. And somehow I think this is, this is the toughest sell in the entire episode of all the far flung plans that people are trying to convince each other of. To convince a human being that you as a robot are pregnant is quite a feat. So I think it has to be the Sharon's.

[B]

Katie Sackhoff is my winner of this episode. Great pick. Despite my Gaia 6 love and all that sort of stuff like that is the subtlety of the Adama conversation where she's fishing for information and Starbuck is not known for her subtlety. But like that, that moment, the moment where she, she gives a punch, takes a punch, you know, with, with Lee. The moment where she fights a Cylon and wins. She fights six and wins and then has that like guttural scream. Yeah. About finding out about. Not only finding out about Shar, like this idea that Hilo is like, no, you can't. You know, like all this sort of stuff like that. Like, I think that just gives us the full spectrum of what Katie can do and what Katie is. So just from the moment we meet her and there's like Cheshire grin on her face and just this cocksure bullshit. I just love her. I think she's amazing and I. I just love her in this, these two episodes.

[C]

You know, that's fascinatingly. You should write a paper quietly.

[B]

The moment of the season, maybe the series, maybe perhaps.

[C]

Absolutely incredible stuff. This is. I think we've just made the case for why these are great episodes and why the show is amazing. It's like you're getting that exposure to how many of these characters are going to work their way into your heart and, like, touch your life. Honestly, not to be too corny about it, it's just. It is a great showcase for that, as is the miniseries, which everybody should watch. This is not the case against the miniseries. I'm very anxious about. People think I don't want them to watch the miniseries. On the Sharon front, I think that Sharon saying to Chief, like, I wake up in the morning and I wonder who I am. I wake up and I wonder if I'm going to hurt someone is just so. It's so gentle and quiet, but it's beautiful and it's anguish inducing, and it tells us what we need to know. And then he's like, you need help. And she's like, not from you. You made that clear, you know, and it's like, you, Chief, honestly, the choices people make.

[B]

I mean, there's also the. The added layer. And, you know, we talked about this with a bunch of different shows, but the added juice of rewatching these episodes, knowing who is a Cylon and doesn't even know that they're a Cylon, it's spicy.

[C]

It's an incredible rewatch.

[B]

Really fun.

[A]

And now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, all of that said, one thing that I think is important to know about the Battlestar Galactic experience, if you're new to this world or considering watching it, there will be plot holes now and again. There will be some things that no one can explain. Inconsistencies in character. Do all of the who is a Cylon revelations completely add up? I don't know, man. I also don't entirely care. And I think. I think this is the kind of show that this is easing you into the idea that, like, you're just gonna have to be along for the ride on this stuff. You're just gonna have to be following the prophecy and buying in on some of this on faith. And the reason you buy in is because the character stuff works. And if that's working for you, I think you're going to be able to go along with a lot.

[B]

Something that we've been doing on these hooked episodes is like, the most blank thing about the episode in terms of the year that it came out. This is harder to do in a show that is set in a different time and place, as is Battlestar Galactica. But is there a 2005 thing about this episode that stood out to you? Whether it's like characterization, hair, costume concept, anything like that.

[C]

I have a hard time with this one. I guess it just took me back in a way I enjoyed to the like, actually, the best show on TV is on Sci Fi.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Crazy times.

[C]

I really like. I actually, I like Joe. I did not watch it live when it was on. Adam did. And so at the end, I was like, what is this show? But, you know, wasn't getting spoiled because it was so out of context for me. And the second it ended, we watched it all and then immediately watched it all again. And then I started evangelizing for and got like, everybody I know to watch it. But, yeah, I guess that's my pick. And also, especially hearing your nugget that you shared, Joe, about how they were like, we can't afford to go the toaster route.

[B]

It's why Grace park is naked in this episode too, actually, because it made the visual effects easier.

[A]

They didn't have to pay for costuming.

[C]

Yeah, no, no.

[B]

It was just like, easier to digitally overlay a bunch of naked shards versus a bunch of costume shards.

[C]

Sure. Yes, yes, of course.

[B]

But also, I love the carefully placed shadow of the Battlestar nudity.

[C]

Yeah, you can see boobs, but not nipples. That's helpful.

[B]

It's key.

[C]

I do think that the effects, and I say this with real love for this television show, do not hold up, like, super great.

[B]

That is pretty jacky. I would agree. But also the way that they shot it, which is like this documentary sort of style helps, especially with, like, the space dog fight stuff, you know what I mean?

[A]

The snap, zooming kind of.

[B]

All of that stuff really, really helps.

[C]

Like, holds up better, I think, like when a, like a silence Cylon walks into the room, I'm like, this was a couple decades ago.

[B]

This is not ideal. This is why it's great that they're. They look like humans. I will. I will give it to. And this is something that I love to think about. This is something our. Our friend of the pod, I will say Alan Sepamwall, who is one of the best in the entire business, brought this up when he was on our last podcast years ago, which is the commercial break when you're watching a show that went to commercial and the act out of a scene and the dramatic, like, sort of up act out of a scene, which they don't even really do for shows that have commercials anymore because they know they're going to go to streaming without commercials, so they don't put those act outs in there. But watching something like Lost or Something like this that, that once aired to commercial, it's really like there's this just like this fun anticipatory rhythm of it that is very nostalgic for be that I really enjoy.

[C]

Totally.

[A]

I had another Lost related pick for the most 2005 thing which is watching these two shows in tandem along with some other kind of mid 2000 stuff right now. Everyone was going through crises of faith. It seems there's just like a lot of like man of science, man of faith. I don't think we've ever stopped, but I think it was like, like such a fundamental point of like front page concern in a way that to be honest now, like watching Battlestar now, yes, the crisis of faith stuff hits. But my primary concern from a present societal perspective, it's like people are already giving up everything to AI. And AI doesn't even look like Trisha Helfer in a tight red dress yet. Like, how fucked are we?

[B]

We're fucked.

[C]

Yeah, totally.

[A]

But yeah, like, just how much? Like so much. Whether it's big cable in this case or big major network media is primarily concerned with issues of faith in terms of narrative. And I think, I think that scaled back some in more recent creations. But like it's all over the place with these two shows.

[B]

I will say that, you know, like thinking about the miniseries coming out in 2003, which is only like two years after 9 11, and the way in which the shadow of 911 and the Iraqi war, at least in American media, like really cast a long shadow. Rob, I just got really emotional hearing you say man of science, man of faith. Like, I'm so happy that you're watching Lost. It really threw the mess.

[A]

Thank you for the gateway.

[C]

You're a man of science, Robin of faith.

[A]

I do consider myself more a man of science, but increasingly, you know, you just gotta follow your era of Apollo at some point. You just gotta. You just gotta know.

[B]

I think we've already talked about how this episode sets up the rest of the series. Anything else you want to say about Kobal's last gleaming? Specifically before we hit on some beats of the miniseries, which we've also talked about a bit, but we might want to say some more. Anything else, Mallory, you want to say? No, I don't think so, Rob.

[A]

I do have one. You know, Joe, sometimes we like to isolate particular scenes that are not worthy for us. In particular, the scene where Gaius is having a conversation with Rosalind about how he needs to take a break as vp and with six about how they need to go On a break and does it simultaneously. Something that happens, a version of which happens basically every episode of Battlestar Galactica. Fucking phenomenal. And the double writing on this show around Gaius is. And six and. And James Callis is like, pausing delivery, where he then has to kind of reroute his thoughts so that it can apply to the other situation. Just phenomenal stuff.

[B]

That's one of the better play things.

[C]

That's one of the better scenes for the. The conversational gymnastics. Because a lot of it, obviously, is about, like, the way he's, like, holding a hand or, like, where he's looking or the fact that somebody catches him talking to himself and he actually. To say, I'm talking to myself or.

[B]

Doing other things with himself, famously jacking.

[C]

Off in the lab because he's fucking.

[B]

Someone against the edge of the table.

[C]

You know, it could take many shapes and forms inside of this wonderful television program, but the. Yeah, the. The conversational gymnastics of him having to turn us mid sentence, something that can fly all around is. Is. It's high comedy. Art. Great.

[A]

I mean, and even that, like, it is high comedy. It is art. And then you drill down and it is what the show is, which is taking these, like, wild ideas and forcing them to confront very practical realities. It's like we have these prophecies, we have these religious beliefs, we have these things we can't explain. And yet you have to call Commander Adama into the room and say, you know what? I think we just need to take our one Cylon Raider and go on a mission that makes absolutely no sense to you. And the intersection of those things is what makes the show really, really crackle.

[B]

All right, so in terms of this section where we talk about the pilot and whether or not we think it works, we're expanding the prompt and saying you can talk about either the miniseries, which we've already talked about a little bit, or 33, which is season one, episode one, which, to Mallory's point, people who are confused about the miniseries. Plenty of people start with season one, episode one, not knowing that the miniseries is really, like, not really optional viewing. It really helps to have watched the miniseries.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

This is what I will say about 33 and 33 and water were a double premiere. So I guess you could even do Water if you wanted to. Mallory's the one who has watched all the other episodes. But the way that 33 and this. This feeds into what we were saying about Edward James almost being a. A leader on set. I was listening to Katie Sackhoff talk about how when they were doing 33ed. James almost is like, okay, guys, none of us are going to sleep. We're not going to sleep. We're just going to stay awake and we're going to do this and we're going to lose our minds, but it's going to be great for our art. And Katie's like, you do that. I'm not doing that.

[A]

I mean, canonically, they have been awake for five straight days or something.

[C]

At the.

[A]

At this point, it's like, everyone looks like my guy.

[B]

Everyone looks like. I love that. Like, your show got picked up after a lot of back and forth on sci fi and your first episode, you have to look as much like as you possibly can. Unless you're Grace Park. And. And. And then the fact that the premise of this episode is, what are your limits as a human? Right? Like what. You know, in terms of the. The idea. The concept of the one where every 33 minutes Cylon shows show up is like a really great little, like, hour of television premise. But also, like, the very nature of the frailty of our team is that they need sleep, man. They need rest or a lot of stims, you know, whatever it takes that almost goes fine. Yeah.

[A]

How many stims are you on today?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, no comment. Also, once again, this is. This is my. My. Same as my White Lotus issue. The way that she chews that stem, I'm like, I don't believe that that tastes good. I don't believe it.

[C]

Terrible.

[B]

Mallory, what do you want to say? Anything you want to say about the miniseries or 33 that we haven't highlighted already?

[C]

I think the miniseries is absolutely Dynamite. I think 33 is great. I think everybody should watch both of them. I do think people should start with the miniseries, genuinely. I think part of the exercise of Hooked is, as you guys have said, not to always pick the actual first episode and to engage with the exercise in that way and make it the extreme. Why not start at the end? I think is a fun prompt for this pod. I think that the miniseries. We already talked. We talked about this actually pretty recently together, Joe, because I picked this as one of my entries for best speeches of the century so far, the Adama speech in the miniseries. You cannot play God then wash your hands of the things that you've created. Sooner or later, the day comes you. When. When you can't hide from the things you've done anymore, feels relevant now in our lives, certainly, you know, we never answered the question why. Why are we as a people worth saving? I think it's just incredible and I hope that people watch it. I think that certainly two 90 minute episodes, plus the question of whether they need to is a barrier to entry 33, I think is a great episode of TV. And I think it is very representative of the conceptually and structurally and stylistically bold choices that Battlestar can often make. I think particularly the first three quarters of season one is defined by a lot of episodes like that. They never go away. It's just that the seasons get longer. So it feels like a larger percentage of season one is, I think, oriented around. That's why Kobold stands out to me is like when the show kind of moves into a different, different state of being.

[B]

It's a little Trekkier, I would say.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You could see it just as an.

[B]

Episode, as a track episode.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. And so like, while I think it is a really great, very clever, incredibly taught, intense episode and I think also still there are like very poignant things that happen that we have to examine and the characters have to examine. What happens with the Olympic carrier, for example, that choice is a huge one, but it's just less rooted in the relationships between the characters and the dynamics between the characters than I think the true, true, true hall of Fame Battlestar episodes are. And also in terms of the prompt for Hooked, I think part of the point of 33 and part of what makes it a great episode of TV is people are not behaving like themselves. But I don't think that makes it the best starting point to show people more battle Start is going to be.

[B]

It's so funny though. I was talking to a friend of mine who loves Battlestar Galactica but like hasn't watched in a while, but he loves it. And I was like, oh yeah, we're going to do a hooked episode. And he's like, oh, are you doing the one where they have to jump every 33 minutes? And I was like, no. I was like, but that's a premise that people just remember. Oh, one where, you know, like, blah, blah.

[C]

Yeah, I think it's a showcase episode in that respect. Weirdly, the other one that I considered for season one but like quickly eliminated because it comes. It's another two parter, not formally in its labeling, but it comes after an episode that literally ends with to be continued. So I just don't think it would be a good faith one to start. But the fifth episode of season one, depending on where you watch and buy season one of Battlestar, the episode numbers will be different based on whether they have coded the miniseries into the episode count. This is confusing debacle, but you can't go home again. I don't think based on the to be Continued and the fact that like Starbucks ends this entire episode Raw Dog in the inside of a Cylon Raider, I don't think it actually would be.

[B]

The wise choice to say to someone.

[C]

Don'T you Want to watch 70 plus hours of this? However, I think it is, at least it warrants mention because it is a beautiful, beautiful episode for understanding the Adama Starbuck and Adama Apollo relationships. Like. Like, if it were you, we'd never leave. No matter how many times I watch that episode, it will break me and I will weep like a baby when Adama says that to Lee. And when Adama visits Kara in her hospital bed at the end. You understand so clearly how much these people mean to each other in an episode like that, which I think is valuable to show people.

[A]

I think there's a lot of entry points, to be honest with you, in season one, I think this is a show where you could throw on a lot of different installments and hook somebody is just like getting them, getting it in front of them if they are not a sci fi person or as we talked about, just like even the word miniseries. And when they see the runtime can be a little daunting for some people. And so if you just put on the miniseries in the background and didn't tell anyone what it was, it's incredibly grabby, right? This idea of like seeing the thermonuclear annihilation of the planet and the only people who survive are basically on the people who are on ships that, that are like too old to take the computer virus effectively. An incredibly evocative idea. And Mal, you nailed it up front of like the confrontation of a staunch military commander in those circumstances who's doing everything he can possibly think of to keep people alive versus a political leader who understands that the war is already over is such a juicy piece of TV writing. And what really does it honestly, in terms of, of what I think makes the miniseries and ultimately what makes Battlestar what it is. The show looks great, the effects are a little janky, but the way it's shot is dynamic, is interesting and I think really exemplified in the stuff with Gaius and Six too, where you just have these constant sort of swivels around the room in terms of the camera, where it will eventually find Six perched against a counter or sitting in a chair or across the room. And it's like again, you think you're watching one scene and then six is in it and it transforms the meaning of everything you're watching. And so it turns what on a lot of other TV shows just like normal workaday stuff of like let's just get our coverage. Here's the close up, here's the medium shot, like very normal stuff to keep the television chains moving into. Now this is like an active part of the telling of the story in a much more fascinating way.

[B]

Yeah, Trisha Helfer is, is frickin amazing. I. What Rob and I promised each other when we started this miniseries is that we weren't gonna do like this is what it takes to make a good pilot. Like that's not the premise of this. That being said, this is what it.

[A]

Takes to make a good pilot.

[B]

The opening of the miniseries, I was thinking we talked about this a lot. We were talking about Joan Harris giving a tour of the Office in Mad Men and that sort of idea of an entry to a world that you haven't been in before. And so you know, we are watching a character who happens to be a Cylon give a tour of the Battlestar and give us the history of it. And as we're going through, you know, Starbuck, Starbucks runs into frame, Adama's practicing his speech. Ty Chief Gata, like all like come into. I know, Mr. Gata, shout out Mr. Gata, my favorite connection to Star Trek, a nod to Mr. Data. I love that the, the like it's so elegant the way that it is done at the beginning of the miniseries, the way the camera's flowing, the way these very natural lived in relationships are being shown to us. We get that call and response with Starbuck and Adama. We get, get the information about what the battle star is, we get all this sort of stuff. And then our introduction to Roslyn, which is like via this diagnosis she gets like there are all these like it's, it's a very slick, very, very slick introduction to a world where expository language is wrapped up inside of like premise. And again that is like in theory what the. Joan, Joan Harris. And like we like the Mad Men pilot, we're like knock, knocking it forever. But we're. There's a bad version of that and, and this is I think an even better version than, than what we get inside of Mad Men, which I think Mad Men is often a better show than Battlestar Galactica. But like in this instance, I think Battlestar Galactica leaps over what Madman accomplishes. Oh yeah, in that setup, you know.

[A]

What I Mean, I think the highs that you hit in the miniseries emotionally are just unprecedented, maybe strong, but incredibly unusual. Like, right, that you're trying to introduce all these characters, you're trying to build this world out, you're trying to get people used to what it means to be on the Galactica, for example. And yet by the end of it, you're getting emotional haymakers. And some of that is because of the runtime. Some of that is because of. We're talking about basically the annihilation of a species or the near annihilation of it. But two things kind of come to mind on just like a visceral level. There is something to having seen all the buildup of an Earth equivalent planet, like, decimated, and then seeing basically human beings get their first chance to strike back. Right. It's like the first time that the Galactica and. Or the starfighters dispatch from the Galactica kind of encounter Cylon ships. The Cylon flip of the switch that deactivates all of the new tech and all of the new starfighters is like, there's just something like skin crawlingly devastating about that idea. And, like, turning, you know, the military into fish in a barrel, basically, that is just, like, really hard to watch and really effective. And I think this is something that they do so well in the miniseries and that really drives it home. Putting a real human facing cost on all the losses, right? It's sometimes it's as simple as, like, Rosalind meets this little girl, and that little girl is among the people who get left behind.

[B]

That's some. That's some real nasty work, honestly, from the writers.

[A]

But again, this is how, you know what show you're watching. And this is how, you know, sitting.

[B]

There stroking the yarn hair on her doll.

[C]

Painful. And like, obviously we talked about this with Kobol Saski Gleaming. Like, when Adama says he's, you know, making this whole, oh, despite any personal misgivings you might have had, and he's wrong, but we love him. So we're kind of swept up. The complexity, the way that. That is so present throughout the miniseries. Like, what does it even mean to have a misgiving if the goal is so clear, move forward. But then also, how could you not have a misgiving literally every step of the way? And I think I love what you guys are both saying about physical space and also how we work our way around the space. And then you think of something like, okay, I think that realizing they have to use the old Vipers, wearing my Viper shirt, you know, the mark Twos. And you take something that's literally like a gift shop, a museum, and, you know, make it your staging ground for the war. How many of the people who were on the Galactica prepping for the decommissioning thought they would ever see combat? There's all of that, but then there's something like, okay, you go into Adama's office, which is one of my favorite sets. His. His. Not just his, his office.

[B]

His quarters. His quarters. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

And it's beautiful. It's rich and like, you think it's full of noodles. It's.

[B]

It's full of noodles.

[C]

It's full of books, books and some of the most crucial things in life. And like, you think, okay, this feels like a place somebody lives. It's a place he's going to be able to then open up to other people and share something, whether it's a rowdy dinner with some reunited family members later in the season or passing a book to Roslyn. But then you think, okay, those are like, that's just it. What if that wasn't just someone sharing a book with someone else? But those were all the books, right? So like, the way that like every space takes on this extra heft and depth because of what people have had ripped away from them. And similarly, like when we're ported into Gaius mind and we're always back on these like, beautiful, resplendent lakefront Vancouver, baby Vancouver looks great in the show, as it always does. And you think like, okay, space openness, the expanse of possibility. And then you move into the tight confines of having to work inside of a small arms, you know, hatch, or move down, down into the, the shared bathroom room elsewhere in the season. But Gaius and Gaeta sharing one of the most memorable conversations while Gaeta's just trying to take a shit. This is how you gotta, you gotta make it work for you. You're just all like, that's just the fleet. There are only so many places to go. So the way in the miniseries that everything feels so limited. And I love when we establish the number, the headcount, which becomes obviously something we track throughout the series. And it's like there could be a part of you that said that out loud and thought, okay, we got some people we could protect. And then you're like, that's a baseball stadium. Like, that's pretty small.

[A]

It's not great.

[B]

It's not a lot of people. It's rough. I also say inside of the luxury of a three hour miniseries, which again, like every other show wishes they had three hours to establish their world. But, like, you've got essentially like standalone episodes inside. Like the sequence where Adama and number two, Callum, Keith Rennie's character are. You know, we meet an arms dealer. Adama, like, realizes he's a Cylon, but he's still pretending he's not Asylum. And they're trapped together in this tunnel. That's an episode. That's an episode of television, you know what I mean? And it's really juicy and really, really good and just like. And then they're violent. They're violent and it's like. But it's got great ideas inside of it and stuff like that. And that's just like something you could see unfolding over the course of an entire hour. And they just are. They're just like. That's just one side plot that we're just gonna slot inside of all of this. It's just.

[A]

That's the plot of the miniseries somehow.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Insane.

[C]

Leo Ben, always great.

[B]

Okay, big time. Spoiler section.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

On the other side of this, Rob's gonna give his loss his brief lost takes. So you have to get. You have to fly through the meteor field. That is the major spoilers in Battlestar Galactica. So skip ahead, skip ahead, skip ahead. If you haven't watched.

[A]

We'll throw that in the timestamps too, if you want to skip the spoilers.

[B]

Yeah, we will.

[A]

We won't. Well, we won't, but Donnie will, thankfully. Yeah. So jump ahead to the lost stuff if that's what you're interested in. If you have any interest in watching Battlestar Galactica, please do not listen to this.

[B]

All right, that's your warning. Spoiler section. Dry off your hands if you've been washing the dishes and go hit pause on your device. You've been warned. Here we go. Mallory Rubin, what have you been keeping a secret as you've been talking about this show?

[C]

I mean, obviously, like, we're going to keep this to five minutes. There's like. Like so much we could say. I think the Cobalt's last gleaming is massive in terms of a number of different things. Gaius's political career and the role that that ultimately plays in the show. You know, when we talk about, like, structural innovation, the eventual time jump and lay down your burdens is like, one of my favorite moments in television history. We're. We're building toward that here, obviously. The opera house, the visions, the baby, you know, the fact that one of the. That, that. That she is pregnant, that that baby will be born that. That Sharon becomes Athena and that this baby is Hera. The shape of things to come. Obviously, we're setting a key path here on. On that front and obviously the. The relationship that Hilo maintains there as well. This is a very key episode for.

[B]

We didn't talk about Hilo very much. I do love.

[C]

I love. I love, absolutely love a lot of key stuff on the Cobalt and Earth, both original Earth and then eventual Earth fronts to hit here. But mostly what I wanted to say is just that Roslyn and Adama ending up together is, like, the most important thing that has ever happened. And, like, I just love thinking about, like, what it's like to be at the beginning of their relationship and then work your way toward that point. I'm like, getting. I'm sorry. Actually starting to cry, unsurprisingly. But, like, when you. My favorite moment. I have a couple. You guys have both heard me talk about them before. Like, obviously at the very end, he's sitting there alone and he's like, look, we built it. I just can't handle it. It's almost unbearable. But when he waits for her, when he's the one who waits. Season 4, Episode 9 the Hub and she returns. Missed you. Me too. The way that she whispers I love you to him is like, maybe my favorite moment in TV history. Other than, like, I won't spoil Game of Thrones for people, but the baby reveal in Winds of Winter, like, I just think it is absolutely stunning and gorgeous and like, it. It is like a life lived between these two characters. And we get to such a rewarding, meaningful place with them. And I love how. How I love being reminded of how often it was really hard for them to find their way to that point. So it's just like the best, you.

[B]

Know, a trope that is just everyone's favorite in. Across many, many things, and we've talked about it before, is this idea of enemies to lovers. And this I. This idea of a extremely well earned. It's not a, like, we fight, we fight, we kiss, we kiss. Like, whatever. It's like a slow burn, grudging respect built over. Decision, decision, decision. At the beginning, the very beginning of all this, when Adama and Rosalind are at odds, it's like we're fighting over who is actually in charge here. Stuff like that. And he has to say to her, like, you were right about this. Like, that is something that he says to her. But then, like, he. He arrests her by the end of the season. You know what I mean? And it's Just sort of like this. They're not enemies in the classic sense of the word, but they are at odds. Odds. And they are at odds until they are not. And then even then they still are. And so that's just so real and human and. And Mallory and I talk about this a lot. This idea of like the depth that you can go into with such long form storytelling, you know what I mean? You could just sort of like and. And long form storytelling that is a bit more episodic, like Battlestar can be, where you just have little. Little moments, little plots, little things. Things that are just sort of build, build, build, build, build. This other. This other thing Ron Moore said in. In the Battlestar Galactica cast episode that I was listening to, he was like, my writers wanted Roslyn and Dom to kiss at the end of season one. And he's like, if we're gonna do it, we have to wait. He was like, we gotta wait. We can't do it here.

[A]

So I love season one would have been crazy.

[B]

Absolutely bonkers.

[C]

I mean, when I'm watching, I'm like, I can't wait. Wait for these two to like. I. But I think this is the. This is a portrait of restraint and why that is often the wiser course. Like, it is just so amazing to watch them work to that point. I like that how you put a Joe. Like it's not enemies, but they're. Because they're aligned in their goals but often at odds. And I think that feels like it's just so consistently interesting to watch. And then the way that that reality between them that so many other characters are swept up in that, you know, obviously in the episodes we talked about today with Lee and, and. And Starbuck and Ty.

[B]

I was also gonna say, I think it's so funny that they give us Aaliyah, a Lee and Starbuck sex scene, fake out sex scene, and then they never give that to us in the show is a crazy move to never.

[C]

Give that brutal stuff for guys though, too. Lee, he stops.

[B]

He deserves. You know what, like, he does that in more. He deserves that anymore.

[A]

He could take it, you know, like, I think he's being.

[B]

Can't clearly.

[A]

He should still take it. Joe, you were right to point out that the finale is obviously controversial and a lot of very intense feelings about it. I have a hard time myself, given everything you just laid out. Mal, about Adama and Roslyn specifically. When I think of the finale, I think of them two together. I think of their scenes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And how can a show that Ends like that not be satisfying. Like, I get.

[C]

Yeah, I agree.

[A]

A warmth of soul from thinking about it.

[B]

Hold on to those thoughts and feelings as you traverse lost. I implore you.

[A]

Yeah, I imagine there's going to be some commonality there, but it's like whatever questions I have about, like, is Starbuck an angel? Or whatever just like, melt away against the sheer emotional firepower of what Battlestar is of.

[B]

Capable.

[A]

Capable of.

[B]

All right. Anything else you want to say in this big time spoiler section? Venting of kept secrets moment.

[A]

I mean, just like, in the long arc sense, I think Gaius is one of the great TV characters of all time. Isn't. Definitely is an absolute dipshit and I hate him most of the time, but I love watching him and I love him on this show.

[B]

My most delicious, like, secret Cylon moment in this rewatch was like, like, you know, the show telegraphs the whole, like, Sharon, you seem fine, like, sort of stuff. But also Ty is kind of fine relative to other people around him. And I, like, actually don't know when they knew who they were making us island or not. But, like, yeah, that was just.

[A]

Ellen is the one that I'm like, I don't think they knew about Ellen. I. I think. I think that was a late addition.

[C]

But it's funny because Ellen, Helen is the one who actually has the COVID in season one of like, well, I'll never tell. And everyone else. I. I think that my. My memory is that Ron Moore has said before about a couple things, certainly the final five, the time jump at the end of season two, et cetera. Like, a thing that he has said about some of the bold choices of the show is like, I'm paraphrasing. I threw it out in the writer's room and everyone was scared, so I knew it was right.

[B]

Which is great. Which is a great approach to television. I don't need that to have known all along. I just don't want to be like, well, they knew here. I'm like, I don't think they knew here. But, like, it's fun on a rewatch to find it completely. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. And I think the cobalt earth stuff is pretty satisfying on a. On a rewatch as well. That's like, in terms of just the quest of where we're meant to be and where we came from and where we end up. That's. That's. There's a lot of good stuff there here.

[A]

I also think too, like, I mean, we could have talked about this with the main section too, but in terms of the, like, the disorientation that comes with watching any pilot. And you're like, there's so many characters. I'm trying to get you to these places having potential multiples of characters or trying to track where is Aaron Doral. Exactly. All that stuff is really fun within the disorientation of the show. And I feel like Battlestar plays with the Cylon stuff. I mean, just so well. They just string you along perfectly.

[B]

All right, well, that's Battlestar Galactica, and we did it in under 90 minutes, leaving just a few minutes to spare for Rob Mahoney to give us a lot of last check in. So, Rob, I was wondering. I know you watched, you got, you got Covid. I know you watched a lot of loss.

[A]

I did. I, I ripped through the first season in like four days.

[B]

People don't.

[A]

Don't tell me what I can't do.

[B]

I never would, you know, about the numbers, you know about the hatch, you know, you know, a bunch of stuff. So what I thought we might do is just like a season one check in. Like, I know you watched a little into season two, but let's just talk up through season one just in a couple minutes. Ramahoney and spoilers for season three, season one of Lost. Rob Mahoney. How's it going?

[A]

It's going great. I mean, to echo something that Mal was just saying about Battlestar, this is one of the most fully realized and well balanced ensembles I've ever seen in a TV show. I care about every single character, even the ones that I'm a little more annoyed by here and there. I'm happy to report after our first pilot check in, Jack still sucks. As far as I can tell. We'll probably all not my favorite character, but I am invested in his daddy issues. I'm invested in his plot lines. There's a lot going on there. And Joe, I have a question for you of, you know, in terms of your personal origin story, your own personal Lost flashback. Are the Lost flashback wigs the origin of Wigwatch?

[B]

Oh, certainly. Jack's bank flashback. Those are the worst ones. Those are the worst ones. Maybe. Maybe that's where it all came from. Mali, Ruben, do you, as a lover of Lost, do you have any questions for Rob about his season one journey?

[C]

I just want to say that I think sometimes we air as people and a collective by treating ourselves to too much of a good thing. This is the inverse of what you were saying at the top. I'm a little worried about the three of us sharing Lost battlestar. And Buffy together.

[A]

It's a lot happening.

[C]

How are we going to maintain moving forward? Lost is one of the other. When I say, like, this is one of my three favorite shows. Lost is one of. One of the other top three shows for me. Like, I. I have a. I always kind of change my power ranking of my top 10, I'd say, but like, Lost and Battlestar are always just going to be right near the top, no matter what. I mean, these are just two of the, I think, best and most important shows ever made. And certainly the two that mean the most to me. Two of the ones that mean the most to me. Should we just start talking about Friday Night Lights next?

[A]

Do not have to twist our arm.

[B]

Ready?

[C]

I'm ready. I need to know how you're feeling about Sawyer. That's my big question.

[A]

He's must see tv. Honestly. He was from the pilot.

[B]

Yeah. Rob called it early. He's like. And Sawyer's like, kind of barely in the pilot. So I didn't expect you to really clock him. And you're like, you know what? That guy Sawyer, I'm like, he shot.

[A]

A polar bear in the pilot. Like, look, there's a. There's a lot happening. He is super racist early on. It's okay. He kind of, you know, fades to the background a little bit. Two Sawyer things. One, I would say my favorite episode of season one by far, Outlaws, AKA Sawyer and Kate, go hunting for the boar. And by the boar, I mean the demons within. Incredible episode of tv.

[B]

I actually think that's the best Sawyer ever looks. His hair is perfectly feathered. Not that that's the point, but it is the point.

[A]

How he maintains the hair is a great question as far as the logistics of Lost. Also, the running bit of him calling Jyn Chewie is one of my favorite parts of the show. Just tremendous comedy.

[B]

Now that you've been through season one, do you see what I mean about the pilot swerving a little hard on Jyn and then having to really swerve out of that characterization?

[A]

I mean, the JYN son stuff in general. I would say overall, season one of Lost, I am stuck in the Bermuda Triangle of constant mystery box intrigue. The numbers, the hatch. I have some questions about, like, season one finale hatch looked really small. Season two premiere hatch looked much bigger. I don't know what happened in the off season. It seems like they did some renovating.

[C]

Your own kind of music.

[A]

The mystery box intrigue. The, like, really fun writing. Just like really crackling dialogue on a really consistent basis. And then Just the emotional haymakers of all these people and the Jin sun, like slow motion heartbreak backstory stuff that has already been kind of like, like revised and Rashomond and like, you know, they're, they're showing all these different angles from it that make it really interesting. But like, just when you think you're getting your bearings, you get that. Or you get like the Saeed flashback episodes or you get like, I mean, Walt leaving Vincent with Shannon. Just me up so bad when, when.

[B]

The raft goes out and the raft themes play and the raft theme is. Is just like one of the best things that Michael Gino has ever done. But the raft theme plays and Vincent tries to swim out to the raft.

[A]

To get to waltz as a, as a human being who is currently for moving related reasons. I don't have my dog here.

[B]

You still don't have your dog.

[A]

It's impending incoming. It's, you know, just, just a, just a trying to settle in before the dog gets very tough. To have all this Vincent content and not be able to. To console my own dog, not to be able to curl up, you know, I feel like I am adrift out of my own personal reality, clinging to a pontoon.

[B]

I think the scene where you and I have similar Jack takes, but the scene where Jack and Sawyer are talking about Jack, Jack's dad.

[A]

Yep, yep, yep.

[B]

Something I cry about every single time I think about it, every single time I watch it. It's just really good television.

[A]

Yeah. The lead up to the season one finale overall is just like, again, they've been doling out a lot of really powerful emotional moments, and yet there's just more and more in the chamber. And it's impressive how much. And I think some of this is a virtue of having an ensemble this big and so many characters who can pay off here and there in totally different ways is you can just keep drawing from different places. All of that said, if you had to trim the ensemble, if you had to say goodbye to somebody, I think Boone was the right person. Just saying, if you had to do it, I think he's the right call.

[B]

They just didn't know what to do with him. Poor bro.

[A]

They did not. But you know, like, who they did know what to do with. And Joe, you and I talked about this a little bit. I have been consistently impressed and pleasantly surprised at what they do with Kate, a character who I think could just be so bland, cut and dry on other versions of this show. And like, they let her be real messy in ways that I really, really appreciate.

[B]

Molly Rubin, anything you want to say about John Locke?

[C]

I was just going to say not enough mentions of John Locke.

[A]

You're absolutely right.

[C]

I think that, like, Locke is a character I really love and I think just a very rich text. Obviously the season one Locke episodes are.

[A]

Oh, I mean, walkabout was really, really special.

[B]

Really stunning.

[A]

That is an ocean episode.

[C]

Deus ex machina as well. I just. Yeah, season one Locke is, like, inspired.

[A]

I would say for me, it's Sawyer, it's John Locke, it's Rose. Those are the three that I'm like. I'm locked in with these three anytime they're on screen. And I mean, of course I'm enjoying basically the presence of everybody else, give or take, you know, the occasional, like, Jack mope around. But great show. You know what? Turns out loss is really good.

[C]

How quickly do you think you'll finish?

[A]

Well, part of the problem is now that this is a household concern. When I was just a man with COVID I was ripping through episodes. Now I have to, like, I have to wait, you know, I have to wait to watch in Company. And look, the pace is going to be slowed a little bit, but maybe that's for the best. Maybe it's going to parcel out at a more like healthy interval.

[B]

We can get some check ins for the people who want to hear.

[C]

Totally.

[B]

I will just say someone we haven't talked about yet who is very important to me is Hurley, One of my favorite characters of all time. And may we all have discman batteries that last longer than Hurley's did. And he goes out listening, I believe, to Damien Rice. I think that's the tune that takes him out and shout out to.

[A]

Literally at the moment when I was wondering, is this thing ever going to run out of battery? Is when it finally ran out of battery. So you know what? They timed it perfectly.

[B]

It really did. All right. Well, that has been a season one check in of loss with Ramahoney. That has been a battlestar check in. Season one Battlestar check in with Mallory Rubin. Embarrassment of riches. Thank you so much, Mal, for coming on the show. We appreciate you always. We will be back. I don't even want to say what the finale is yet because we haven't scheduled yet.

[C]

And I'm like, let me say this to you both. Everybody knows it's, I think, very, very clear.

[A]

Well, we'll see, you know, we'll see what happens here.

[C]

From the clues that you guys have.

[B]

Dropped, I think everybody knows we'll see. So I just don't want to say.

[A]

It in case it's Doogie Howser.

[C]

All right.

[B]

Finally our Doogie has our MD takes. Will will come up. We'll be covering task, of course, on this feed. Slow Horses is right around the corner. Very exciting. Really exciting for that. Excited for that. Thank you to Donnie Beacham on this episode. Donnie's the best. And thank you to Mallory Rubin for her guest star appearance.

[A]

Thank you, Mal.

[B]

Thank you to Rob Mahoney and we'll see you soon. Bye. Bye.

[A]

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