‘The Bear’ Episodes 4-6: The Show’s Back, but Is Enough Happening?

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast Summary: “‘The Bear’ Episodes 4-6: The Show’s Back, but Is Enough Happening?”

Release Date: June 26, 2025
Host/Authors: Charles Holmes & Van Lathan
Podcast: The Prestige TV Podcast by The Ringer

---

Introduction

In this episode of The Prestige TV Podcast, hosts Charles Holmes and Van Lathan delve deep into the fourth through sixth episodes of the critically acclaimed television series, The Bear. As seasoned members of The Ringer’s rotating cast, Charles and Van bring their unique perspectives to dissect whether the show continues to deliver compelling narratives and character development mid-season.

---

Episode Overview

Charles Holmes opens the discussion by summarizing the key plot points of episodes four to six:

• Episode 4 focuses heavily on Sid’s dilemma between staying at The Bear with Carmi or joining Shapiro at a new restaurant, all while caring for a young Black girl struggling to fit in. Concurrently, The Bear team strives to make the restaurant profitable under tight deadlines.
• Episodes 5 and 6 continue to build on these tensions, introducing heartfelt conversations and unforeseen crises, including Sid’s father suffering a heart attack and Shapiro making pivotal calls that escalate the storyline towards a cliffhanger.

Charles remarks, “These episodes were funny, particularly Sugar, who I think is a delightful character” (22:23).

---

Character Development and Dynamics

Van Lathan emphasizes the balance The Bear maintains between intense drama and sharp comedy:

“The show, to me, we talked about this before, is best when it is equal parts components, if you will, equal parts intense... and comedy” (04:09).

He praises how the focus shifts slightly away from Carmi, allowing other characters to shine without diminishing the central narrative. Van appreciates that “five and six were particularly strong,” highlighting the episodes' ability to maintain viewer engagement.

Charles Holmes and Van Lathan engage in an insightful discussion about Sid’s potential decision between Carmi and Shapiro:

• Van speculates on Sid’s motivations, suggesting her actions may stem from deeper trust and betrayal issues.
• Charles relates Sid’s dilemma to real-life workplace toxicities, drawing parallels to his own experiences in highly charged environments like restaurants.

---

Themes and Storytelling Techniques

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the themes of loyalty, professional ambition, and personal sacrifice. Van Lathan draws attention to how the show portrays the complexity of relationships within a high-stakes culinary environment:

“Can the relationships in this world survive professional fracture?” (11:31).

Charles Holmes expands on this by comparing The Bear’s narrative structure to other successful TV models, debating the effectiveness of binge-watching versus weekly episode releases. He posits that The Bear thrives on being consumed in short arcs rather than extended weekly builds:

“The bear is short enough to where you can watch two or three at one time... And you come back.” (28:35).

---

Cultural and Social Commentary

The hosts delve into the cultural nuances presented in the show, particularly focusing on Sid as a Black woman navigating a predominantly white, male industry. Charles Holmes appreciates how the show handles these dynamics without falling into cliché:

“Sid craves that environment... she's connecting to those people” (12:25).

Van Lathan reflects on his personal experiences with workplace cultures, drawing parallels to Sid’s situation and underscoring the human desire for acceptance amidst professional chaos.

---

Notable Episodes and Scenes

• Sugar’s Character Arc: Both hosts commend Sugar’s development, noting her sweetness juxtaposed with moments of explosive emotion. Charles mentions, “Sugar is hilarious this season” (20:34), while Van adds how her interactions, especially with characters like Fat and Francie, add depth to her persona.

• Tina’s Influence on Carmi: A pivotal moment occurs when Tina has a heartfelt conversation with Carmi, leading him to a moment of self-realization. Charles Holmes highlights this scene as a breakthrough for Carmi's character development:

“It's finally Tina who's like, yo...” (32:06).

---

Director and Writing Insights

The discussion touches upon the creative minds behind the episodes:

• Episode 4 was directed by Janisa Bravo and written by IO Debi and Lionel Boyce.
• Episodes 5 and 6 were directed by Christopher Storer, with additional writing from Karen Joseph Adcock.

Van Lathan appreciates the authentic portrayal of Chicago culture and the intricate character interactions, attributing much of the show's success to its writing and direction.

---

Future Trajectories and Speculations

As the season progresses towards its climax, the hosts speculate on potential storylines:

• Binge-Watching vs. Weekly Releases: They debate how The Bear fits into the evolving landscape of television consumption, suggesting that its structure is optimized for binge-watching.
• Potential Breakups and Alliances: Van Lathan and Charles Holmes discuss the likelihood of Sid and Carmi’s eventual breakup and the implications it holds for both characters and the overarching narrative.

Charles Holmes muses:

“Have like a two week period where everybody in my life just cares about the bear...” (30:29).

---

Guest Appearances and Additional Content

The podcast briefly acknowledges guest contributors and upcoming special episodes:

• Rob Reiner’s Appearance: Van Lathan shares anecdotes about Rob Reiner’s illustrious career, injecting a playful segue into Hollywood trivia.
• Upcoming Specials: The hosts tease a future episode titled “Binge or No Binge,” aiming to explore the history and future of binge-watching in television.

---

Conclusion

Charles Holmes and Van Lathan wrap up the episode by expressing their enthusiasm for the remaining episodes of The Bear. They commend the show’s ability to balance humor, tension, and heartfelt moments, ensuring it remains a standout in the current television landscape.

“These episodes, they were funny, they were good. But there was a feeling where I'm like, is enough happening?” (25:13).

Their final remarks underscore a shared anticipation for the season’s conclusion, leaving listeners eager for more insightful discussions in future episodes.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Charles Holmes (@00:13): “...where we're covering the shows you're binging and the ones you're waiting to drop every week.”

• Van Lathan (@04:09): “These are three more so two funny episodes of the Bear to me.”

• Charles Holmes (@06:08): “Do you think that Sid is going to choose Carmi or Shapiro?”

• Van Lathan (@12:25): “Hopefully, money and success and achievement bring a better feeling.”

• Charles Holmes (@16:51): “I could argue that the American President is a comedy, but it's more of a rom-com kind of serious tone.”

• Van Lathan (@28:16): “Let me tell you all something. Let me tell you all something...”

• Charles Holmes (@34:43): “And he’s just like, it was this really nice moment seeing Jeremy Allen White, like, realize the acting that he's doing is karmic.”

---

This summary captures the essence of the podcast episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't tuned in while highlighting key discussions and memorable quotes.

Transcript

[Van Lathan]

Foreign.

[Charles Holmes]

Welcome to the Prestige TV podcast, where we might have seen good hair, but we refuse to be energetically musty. I'm Charles Holmes. He's Van Lathan. Together we're known as the Midnight Boys. And we're back to discuss season four of the Bear. Van, how are you doing?

[Van Lathan]

I'm fantastic.

[Charles Holmes]

You don't want to discuss the bear today? You really want to discuss the Social Network, too?

[Van Lathan]

I don't think I understand. Neither do I, but people are excited.

[Charles Holmes]

Who is excited?

[Van Lathan]

Nobody. No one is excited.

[Charles Holmes]

Are you a Sorkin fan? Yes.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I watched A Few Good Men a couple of days ago. It's a fantastic movie.

[Charles Holmes]

Good. Did you watch the Newsroom?

[Van Lathan]

No.

[Charles Holmes]

Crazy show.

[Van Lathan]

I also didn't watch what people define as defining for Sorkin, which was the West Wing.

[Charles Holmes]

I've never seen the West Wing.

[Van Lathan]

I've never seen it, but anyone who is a West Wing person says that it's one of the greatest shows ever made. Never saw it, but I saw the American President, saw A Few Good Men. The Social Network is a fantastic movie.

[Charles Holmes]

Phenomenal movie.

[Van Lathan]

Sorkin is the man.

[Charles Holmes]

One of the best trailers I've ever seen. All right, but talking about another greatest TV show of all time. Where? Back for the bear. A little housekeeping. Guys, Ringer TV is on YouTube. It's. The videos are on Spotify. Guess what? We do other podcasts. Midnight Boys. We're covering everything. Superman, Fantastic Four, Jurassic Park. We got Sean Fantasy coming on for. For a. A special episode. Higher Learning. What's going on in the Higher Learning?

[Van Lathan]

He's coming on what episode?

[Charles Holmes]

We can't. We're not going to reveal.

[Van Lathan]

He's coming on the Midnight Boys. Yeah, I don't remember this.

[Charles Holmes]

We're doing a midnight course.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh. Oh, I apologize.

[Charles Holmes]

That's how, you know you took too many podcasts.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, that's how. Yeah, I'm excited about that. Higher Learning's on. We're. We're zooming. We're getting it on Higher Learning. Check in. So much news happening.

[Charles Holmes]

Has it been a strategic pivot for you on Higher Learning? Cause I've noticed you getting spicy. You not. You really like taking the content to another level. You're not playing with them anymore.

[Van Lathan]

Where we're going. We got a new audience. And so where everything's going up, this is the up moment of all podcasts on the ringer, so be a part.

[Charles Holmes]

Hell, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Charles Holmes]

But one final thing. If you guys are looking for Squid Game. Squid game season 3 unfortunately will not be on this feed, but you know where it will be.

[Van Lathan]

Where?

[Charles Holmes]

On one of the greatest podcasts at the Ringer produces the House of R. So if you want to catch up on everything squid game happening, you need to go tap in with our girls over at the House of Our. With all that being said, are you ready to get into episode four through six of the Bear?

[Van Lathan]

So ready.

[Charles Holmes]

All right, Episode four directed by Janisa Bravo and written by IO Debi and Lionel Boyce. Episodes five and six are directed by Christopher Storer. Storer writes the former and Karen Joseph Adcock writes the latter. We get a Sid heavy episode in episode four where the young chef has to decide between staying with Karm at the Bear or joining Shapiro at his new restaurant, all while taking care of a young black girl who is having troubles of her own fitting in. Meanwhile, everyone at the Bear is still reaching for higher goals as they race to turn the restaurant profitable before the clock runs out. And a heartfelt conversation with Tina leads Carmi to realize that he doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. So he decides to forego the Chaos Mini for something more stable. Unfortunately, this all happens as Sid's father has a heart attack, and to add insult to injury, Shapiro calls Kami. But we're left on a cliffhanger of what the other chef told our struggling short little Italian man. Now then, last episode, I think we were both on a super high with the first trio saying, like, it seems like we're back to form. We're in the kitchen with the characters that we love. Did episodes four through six ride that wave? Was it a little choppy? How are you feeling middle of the season?

[Van Lathan]

So the Bears back now. The show, to me, we talked about this before, is best when it is equal parts components, if you will, equal parts intense. The show has to have the intensity. We talked about it. Sometimes it got too intense, but it has to have that intensity with the comedy, which is really evident in these. These are three more so two funny episodes of the Bear to me. Two very funny episodes of the Bear. And then with the individual attention to each character here, a lot of this stuff is less revolving around Carmi. And that's working for me. Yep, it's working for me that we're not so in the dumps with him, that we're not so caught up in. In his brooding or what he's trying to find or whatever that Carmi's character while being the center of the story, you know, we a lot of times start with him. We a lot of times End with him. He's still a part of the ingredients list that makes the show so great. Five and six were particularly strong. Four had its moments. I understand it was supposed to give us a little bit more of Sid. I wasn't over the moon about four, but I understood why the episode was very important. But I'm really enjoying watching the season. The season's funny. It's full of heart. Enough's going on. Everybody's getting their chance to shine, too.

[Charles Holmes]

I mean, if we talk about episode four, because I agree with you, what I think is interesting, in the past, I would say these type of episodes, the solo episodes, if we think of, like, Forks, that's probably, like, a top three, top five bear episode. We had a Tina episode last year. We kind of.

[Van Lathan]

Which was also fantastic.

[Charles Holmes]

Which was also fantastic. We usually get these kind of, like, episodes. And similar to you, it wasn't a bad episode of tv, but I was like, damn. There was something about it where it felt like something was missing. And what I want to ask you, coming in is, do you think that who Sid is going to choose, Carmi or Shapiro? The thing that she knows versus the future. Is that compelling enough? Especially when we got so much of it last season, where it almost feels like they're stretching this story way past what it can really take.

[Van Lathan]

It's a good question. It's working for me. It is getting to a point where they keep coming back to it so much that you're like, okay, like, when is the bubble going to burst? But I think everything that happens around the show is just increasing my anticipation, almost my dread of the moment that that plot point comes to a head. Yeah, even the fact that Carmi told everybody at the restaurant about Sid's father having the heart attack. I wonder whether or not that's a big deal or whether or not that's going to be no deal at all. She said, don't tell anyone. And he immediately does. He immediately does. And I'm wondering whether or not that's going to be a thing. And that's indicative of good writing. Because the only reason why I would be so stuck on how she's going to respond to that is because their relationship is a lot more fraught than he realizes. He thinks he's doing the right thing. He's coming to Jesus. He's asking for trust. He's re engaging with her, but he doesn't realize that she has such a monumental decision to make. So in his mind, him letting it slip out that her father is in the hospital might not be that big of a deal. He's telling the rest of the crew what he essentially has to tell them to make them go ahead and get on with service and really clue them into what's going on. But for her, it could be seen as some type of betrayal or some. Him choosing what's easier for him and not for her. It could be anything. Could be the tipping point right now.

[Charles Holmes]

I mean, that is actually what I think is working, where it's like, even if it's getting on my nerves, like, what is she going to choose? Every decision to your point that Carmi is making, even when it's like, we still don't know, because I haven't watched ahead. I still don't know what he changed.

[Van Lathan]

In that contract, and we don't get to learn.

[Charles Holmes]

Similarly, I don't know what Shapiro. Like, I can guess what Shapiro was calling Carmi about, which is kind of like. Because I've seen this happen in real life where Carmi and Shapiro are on the same. Are on the same level in terms of, like, where they're at in their career. And Shapiro's probably calling Carmi, like, hey, man, I'm sorry that I had to take, you know, your best chef. But, like, we still good. And even I'm starting to wonder. I'm like, what does that do to Carmi? Because he goes through the rest of the episode kind of like just going about his day, and I'm just like, does he think that Sid is about to knife him? Like, I don't. That's all compelling to me. But I think if we go back to episode four, what I liked about the episode. Was there something about Shapiro that's a little off? That's a little off that Sid is almost. And you want to know where this is? Like, I could tell IO and Lionel wrote this episode. I could tell two black people wrote this episode. Because when he asked, IO have you seen good hair? I was like, yeah, don't, don't, don't.

[Van Lathan]

When she walks in there, ante up is playing and shout out to mop. But you know what I mean? She cuts it off and puts on Beethoven, right? Because that's the headspace she wants to be in as she walks throughout the restaurant. I'm wondering if this show ends up in a spot where Will Poulter's Luca character comes into the Bear and stays there more permanently because Sid leaves.

[Charles Holmes]

I was about. I was gonna ask you this at the end of the episode. Do you think we are on a trajectory? Because I'm like when Luca came back. This season has been very, very careful about not overloading us with guest characters. But when Luca comes back and he's staging, I'm just like, are we leading to a season five where Sid is with Shapiro, Carmi is with Luca, and we have a kind of classic like succession. Did this really, really well of just like when the siblings would go off on their own, some would stay with dad, Kendall would be off over here. Which sides are people on? I. I would not be surprised if that is a storyline we are heading towards.

[Van Lathan]

Wouldn't be surprised either. And the question then becomes, what happens if the Bear is a better restaurant with Luca? And what happens if Shapiro's restaurant is humming with Sid? It's are the relationships in this world, can they survive professional. Listen to me. Can the relationships in this world survive professional fracture?

[Charles Holmes]

I mean, and even. Cause we still have that dangling plot thread of it seems like they're on their way to getting a Michelin star. It seems like someone who works for the organization was on the night that everything was humming. And I could see it being Sid helped this place get to that point. And she leaves at the moment where she can't even bask in it.

[Van Lathan]

They win, but they lose. They win in terms of maybe even they're profitable. They get the Michelin star, the whole nine, but maybe they lose Sid. And it feels like there are things that are happening in each character's life that make these decisions a little bit more important than what they normally would be. Her father having the heart attack. Her father having a heart attack will probably make her crave stability.

[Charles Holmes]

Crave. Yes, crave. Because he's talking about, hey, we're going to get full health insurance. She's going to get paid more. It's just, it's. But also the thing that I think why it's always interesting when you look at someone like Sid and her being a black woman in a very white male industry is also what's interesting to me is that sometimes I feel like when you are a black creative, what people don't understand sometimes is like sometimes it's a lot easier to be next to a white person who is not overly trying to be a good ally. Where it's like Shapiro seems like to your point, he's playing ante up. He's asking if she's seen good hair, he's saying all the right things, but almost in an annoying way where it's like, hey, I'm more than my blackness. Can we actually like talk about the food and talk about like you're doing too much, where it's almost like Carmi. And they could not be less peaceful. Like, they're real. These are real Chicago people. Like, hey, yo, we're sorry, but like.

[Van Lathan]

This is what we do.

[Charles Holmes]

And it almost seems like Sid craves that environment. Even though it's something that she's like, she does not like the toxicity of it.

[Van Lathan]

Or maybe she. Maybe she doesn't know how important it is to her. Maybe she'll learn. Maybe she. I mean, this was the whole thing about episode four she was asking the question about. And that back and forth is so fundamental with people. The grass is always greener. Yeah, but does it feel as nice to lay on? That's the question. Sure, the grass might be greener, but is it softer? Do you like brown grass? A little bit. Because when you lay on it, you're used to it. Yeah, right. And so it. There's no doubt that Shapiro's grass is greener. No doubt. But will it feel as good? And she doesn't know. She really doesn't know yet.

[Charles Holmes]

I will say, but also, you've probably been here. The best jobs I've had, especially when I was younger, I'm talking about like fry cook, whatever, restaurants, whatever. The most fun jobs I've had are usually the most toxic workplaces. Like restaurants, whatever. Everybody hates the boss. We all like, it's. And there is this weird pull, like, yo, they in the trenches with me. This is my family. We going out.

[Van Lathan]

You about to get me talking, man. Let me tell y' all something. Let me tell y' all something. It was a fucked up place. But TMZ was fun, man. We had fun, man. That's why it sucks so bad. Like, just to be honest with you, and this is, you know, Prestige Podcast. I don't want to get too personal. It's about the television show. But you know, my father died and there were a lot of my old co workers from TMZ that didn't reach out to like say, hey, man, it sucks that your father passed away and all of that stuff like that. That's because, like, once you're gone from there, it's kind of like you're out of the cult.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And that sucked because to your point, it was fun and it was kind of us all together, even sometimes it was toxic. It was us against the regular industry. It was us sometimes against Harvey. It was us banding together. And then like, you don't realize how those types of places where you can really be your not true self. But where people accept you at your worst. Sometimes that's kind of what you want. You. It's weird. We want everybody to try their best, but we want everyone to accept us at our worst. And, like, sometimes you have more trust for people that accept you at your worst and that show you their worst than you do for people that are trying their best. And it doesn't make any sense.

[Charles Holmes]

I mean, and that's what I think. Sig clocks, which is around Shapiro, where she's like, oh, yeah, he talks too much. And I'm just like, but that's the exact thing that you demonize Carmi for, where he doesn't talk enough. He doesn't clue you. He doesn't keep you abreast of anything. And it's so funny when she finally sees the thing she wants and she has, like. I don't know if it is her niece or just, like, a family friend.

[Van Lathan]

It's interesting. It's her cousin. She said, it's my mom's cousin. So it's. If. I mean, it was interesting even there. She didn't say my cousin. Cause, like, if it's your mom's cousin, then if it's your mom's second cousin, then it's your third cousin. You know what I'm saying? So it's her mom's cousin. So it's essentially her cousin.

[Charles Holmes]

But it was so interesting because her little cousin is just like, I don't know. The house with the pizza sounds like it's really, really dope. And in that moment, for the first. I feel like for the first time, we're actually starting to locate how important the bear is to Sid. And Sid is realizing in that moment, she's like, fuck. I do like my toxic works. I actually love it. She's defending. And there was even that meta moment where I'm like, this season seems like it's very meta when the cousin is just like, so you like him? She's like, I don't like Harmony. And I was like, yeah, I see. Y' all right.

[Van Lathan]

You know what's interesting is that the little cousin doesn't want to go to the nicer school. She wants to go to the school where her friends are, but she doesn't. Sid is telling her, hey, this school is nicer. It's got a better education for you. Probably have nicer uniforms, probably have all of this stuff. But she doesn't want to go to that school. You don't want. You don't. You want to go to where your friends are like, you want to Go to where everybody knows your name. Like, when it comes down to it, all of this stuff, this big life thing, it's about feelings, man.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And you know, you. You hope that money and success and achievement bring a better feeling. Because, like, when we look on tv, we go, oh, you know, it must be nice to be Leonardo DiCaprio and be on the boat and all of that stuff. I bet that feels good. And we look at it like that, but we don't know if it does. And so with Sid, she knows that sometimes it feels shitty at the bear, but she's connected to those people. And when it feels great, it feels amazing. And the question is, would you take consistent. Okay. Over sometimes. Wonderful.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And it's a hard decision to make.

[Charles Holmes]

And it was funny. Cause it's like, as someone who has like.

[Van Lathan]

Or even Consistent Good.

[Charles Holmes]

Who's worked at a charter school, that was very. Just demonic. It was funny where I could even see. I don't fuck with charter schools, but even seeing. Cause it served black and brown kids in New York. And even going into the school sometimes where it was split in half, where one would be a P.S. whatever and the other would be a charter school. You could even see that the people who were just from the place, like, were just from the neighborhood or whatever, who are going to the regular PS school. They talked in a certain way, they bonded in a certain way. And the kids who were with the charter schools, who had mostly white teachers, all the new shit, whatever, there was this even cultural barrier. And it happens even when you go to college. My friends would go to like an HBCU versus a state school versus this. There are things that you lose. Maybe on paper you get a better education, but in terms of just like, oh, feeling like you belong here. You're around people that you grew up with, people who look like you. Those are the things we. You have to decide. And when I. It was an interesting episode with Shapiro where I was like, I don't know if I would want to work at Shapiro's restaurant. He almost. He did seem annoying to me for the first. I was like, I don't know if I would.

[Van Lathan]

I'm actually just like Sid. I know that I would want to. I don't know if I would like it.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You know what I mean? I know that I would want to because it feels like everything would be better. I just don't know if I would like it. And she doesn't know. These episodes were funny, man. Like, I looked at certain scenes. I'm like, I really Fell in love with all of the characters. These episodes were funny, particularly Sugar, who I think is a delightful character.

[Charles Holmes]

I think Sugar, she's always been great. I don't. You know what it is? I think Sugar being outside of the bear and having to come back in now gives those scenes a lot. Like when she's bringing the babies around, she's telling the facts. Because I've been around mobster, you know.

[Van Lathan]

Who don't get to hold the baby.

[Charles Holmes]

Who is Francie?

[Van Lathan]

We don't know yet, but it's the fact Sister is the fact sister. We don't know what she did. It seems like it's either their sister or their cousin or whatever, but we don't know what Francie did. Francie is brought up by Pete. And then Sugar loses it. Sugar is sweet almost to a fault, except when you bring up her. The scene where Fat comes in and he's hiding because to where he has to tell her, I invited her to the wedding and she gets so mad. I watched it back like three times. It's so hilarious.

[Charles Holmes]

What does he say at the end when he's like, am I still. He says something like, am I still your favorite little.

[Van Lathan]

Am I still. Am I still your special boy? She goes, no, you have devastated me.

[Charles Holmes]

But also, I think Sugar is hilarious this season. I know this actress. I'm blanking on her name, but Claire, I think, is doing a really phenomenal job in the season. I thought the scene between her and IO in the six when IO, like, there's no one in the hospital and Claire has to come in because I was just like, oh, not only are these actresses really good, but I'm like, oh, this feels like a TV show again, where it's like you are giving characters room to grow. Now that you understand more about Claire, you understand more about Sugar, you're like, oh, shit. I could not imagine the TV show without them. Even the facts to me work way.

[Van Lathan]

Better holding it down.

[Charles Holmes]

They're so. What was the. What's the actor who plays who comes in to help ibra?

[Van Lathan]

That's Rob Reiner.

[Charles Holmes]

Rob Reiner. Love him.

[Van Lathan]

Carl. Rob Reiner. Carl Reiner is the dad.

[Charles Holmes]

Rob Reiner, Rob Reiner. I know him. He was. He was wonderful as Jess dad on New Girl.

[Van Lathan]

But he's obviously. We guys know. Fantastic director. I want you guys to listen to this run by Rob Reiner. I've been on episodes of the American President. Excuse me. Not the American President of the Rewatchables where we've talked about him, but for those who might be uninitiated? 1986 Stand by Me 87 the Princess Bride 89 with Harry Met Sally 90 Misery, 92 A Few Good Men 94 North. That's a little bit of a miss. The American president Goes to Mississippi. All the way up to the American President. That's a fucking hell of a run.

[Charles Holmes]

Why don't people talk about that run more?

[Van Lathan]

I mean, I think they do. I think they do. I think that. I think they do. I think that it, it Sometimes when a guy's particularly in that type of running, it's happening if those movies. I mean, obviously When Harry Met Sally is a. Is a classic all time movie.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

But directors are remembered more for. How can I put this? Everybody knows Rob Reiner is one of the greatest fucking comedic directors ever. And Misery is like even not so much of a comedy. I could argue that the American President is a comedy, but it's more of a rom com kind of serious tone. But there are guys that have these lists that have these runs that you kind of just fucking forget how amazing they are for the time that they're in their wheelhouse. But I don't think that he's underrated at all. It's fucking Rob Reiner.

[Charles Holmes]

No, no, no, not underrated, but actually, you want to know what I actually think it is? He's also making movies at a time where I was just like, now we have things like the fucking big Pick. And it's just like we're like talking about directors all the fucking time. You know what I mean?

[Van Lathan]

Look, he got. He was a very familiar and is a very familiar in America cultural figure. He got his start as an actor on all in the Family. So you know that thing was. They called him Meathead on there or whatever. So people knew him and it was almost like a Ron Howard situation to where you saw a television actor that everyone knew and then all of a sudden he. And he's never stopped acting. Right. Because he also was in. If you're a little bit younger, you remember him from the Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah, Right. So he never stopped acting. He's always been acting, always been funny. But he's a legendary director. So when I saw him and I see him moving around good. And he's still sharp. I know he's got Spinal Tap coming out and all of that stuff. It's good to see him in this.

[Charles Holmes]

Back to to the Bear. These episodes, they were funny, they were good. But there was a feeling where I'm like, is enough happening? And what I mean by that, I could not really tell you major differences between, like episodes five and six where they almost it all this entire season. Besides the IO part very much feels like. It feels like the clock. It feels like every day is the same. They're trying to beat this thing. We. We keep seeing the shot of the graph going up and up or down and up, and I'm like, I'm starting to realize why this is a binge. Does that make sense?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, no, I think, look, I completely agree. I think this is an andorization, a little bit of television. So not to get too wordy on this, but why do I keep saying that my name is Van Lathan and I fucking talk a lot. All right. That's why I'm a podcaster. It's interesting to see the cultural shift on this. At first, Netflix comes out with the binge model. The binge model is the way that we consume the stuff that's happening on the streamers. We get used to that. And the shows know that we're binging this stuff, so they give us things that are not really reliant on cliffhangers. Every episode. Yeah, it's every two or three episodes because the story is told in two or three episode arcs. They know that you're going to watch them all, but they're only a couple of pressure points within the season where you're going to be like, oh, my God. And other than that stuff is kind of running together, then it changes. When the streaming wars begin, all of these networks go, we want to maintain people's attention over a long period of time. The first show that I remember that did this was the Boys. The. The first season was a binge and we all got into the shows. Oh, my God. When it comes back now, Amazon is trying to carve out or prime video, should I say, is Amazon Prime Video? The fucking Amazon fucking owns the thing. And so they want to hold you there a little bit longer, so they're going to now give it to you in one episode per week doses. People fucking revolted. When that first happened with the Boys, it was a lot of people that were going on there and one starring that season because they. They wanted it in a binge. We got used to that. I don't think the narrative of the shows, a lot of those shows could handle it because it's a different way to make television. I think that for a lot of the shows that we've gotten accustomed to watching, they just don't have what it takes to maintain our interest from week to Week to week to week to week. Because there might not be enough story.

[Charles Holmes]

Or you need to be a show like the pit is a show where it's like we are designing this show to be a hospital every week procedure or releasing it a week because like they know. They're just like we're following in er. There's still something about like police shows, like cop shows or hospital shows.

[Van Lathan]

I'm not saying it doesn't work for every show.

[Charles Holmes]

I don't think it would work for the bear.

[Van Lathan]

It doesn't. It wouldn't. The bear is short enough to where you can watch two or three at one time. And then also the bear for it's very artistic. For there are parts of the bear that like our little music videos.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Towards all the music. And you come. If, if you had to wait until next week to get another episode and you get like a one minute musical montage, you're like, no, come on, man. Like I, I need. The shows have to be more.

[Charles Holmes]

That's what makes it hard to do this podcast because like after, like I don't want to watch ahead before we. We pod. Sometimes I just want to finish the season. But I also. What I want to know is there was something that happened. I think this was, I want to say, was the sixth episode. Episode.

[Van Lathan]

I want fish. What I'm saying real quick. Oh, yeah, that's it. Andor knew this.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Andor was a big prestige show that tried it either ways, but Andor was like, let's give them the arcs. And we're covering it in three episode arcs, which is very smart by you and Justin Sales who made up, who were like, this is the way we're gonna cover it. Let's cover the arcs. Because if we tried to cover this episode by episode, I don't know that there's enough in each individual show for us to be able to go through it. Not enough happens.

[Charles Holmes]

No, I, I agree with you. And it's funny that FX stuck to this model this entire time because I think after the. I think it worked for the first season and then with the second third season, I think people were. Well, at least for the second people were like, dog, I wanna, I wanna talk with my friends about this for the entire summer. And then the third season dropped and motherfuckers revolted. So I do think that this is a show that I'm like, oh, if you do a season five, it is a good feeling of being like, oh, shit. I have like a two week period where everybody in my life just cares about the bear. That's all we're fucking talking about.

[Van Lathan]

You know what I want to do? And if Justin's around, you know, listen to this. I want to do a special prestige TV episode.

[Charles Holmes]

On what?

[Van Lathan]

Mahoney?

[Charles Holmes]

Joe.

[Van Lathan]

Joe. Chuck Wagon, Van Lathan. It's called Binge or no Binge.

[Charles Holmes]

Binge or no binge.

[Van Lathan]

Not binge mode. That's a yes. But the question is for where television is right now, particularly with these streamers. Binge or no Binge. We look back at the history, the current and the future of the binge model. A prestige TV special event. Binge or no binge.

[Charles Holmes]

Justin, fucking green light it. Justin just greenlit it for episode six.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, give it up.

[Charles Holmes]

Why do you think it was Tina who got through to Carm?

[Van Lathan]

Why was it Tina that got through to Carm?

[Charles Holmes]

Because remember, if she's talking to Carm and Carm is having this moment of just like, they have to go from three components to two. They can't pay the farmers. And she's the one who has to kind of pull him to the side like a mother figure and be like, hey, yo, I know you're chasing something, but you do not have to chase it. You are the shit. And it was like he didn't listen. He wasn't listening to computer or his uncle or Sid or anybody else in his life. But it's finally Tina who's like, yo.

[Van Lathan]

So my first answer is, I don't know. But if I had to guess, it's because Carmi has a problem with authority. And if you have a problem with authority, if you want to be a maverick, you might not listen to someone who can tell you, but you do listen to someone who will tell you. So the can tell you People are the people whose job it is to edit you. I had a very old mentor. I say very old. I mean, like, not. I mean, the person is older, but they also. This was a long time ago. It says, just be careful who you allow to edit you, because anybody that you give the permission to edit you will. So you have to make sure that you trust that person, right? But if it comes from someone that is below you, particularly if you. Somebody. If you're somebody that has a problem with authority, you might listen because it resonates with you that your authority affects that person. See what I'm saying? When authority affects you, you want to go, hey, I want to be free. But when your authority affects somebody else, you go, hmm, am I putting this person in the right place to succeed? They don't have anything over you. So I don't know. But I would guess when she told him that, he probably looked at it as, look, you're making it harder for you. But in turn, it's harder for all of us. And if that comes from computer or whatever, he might not care that computer or uncle. That it's harder for them because it's like, hey, I'm an artist. You can't hold me back. But if it's harder for her, it might resonate with him.

[Charles Holmes]

And I think also the thing that's interesting with Tina is, like, she's not like Sid. And what I mean by, like, Sid comes into the Beef and the Bear after Carmi's brother is dead. So she does not have that connection where it's like, Tina's just like, I know your family. I know you. I've stuck around for all of it. So I think sometimes, like, she. Like, Tina is this interesting character where she is under Carmi in the. In terms of, like, the org chart. But in terms of, like, mother figures, Carmi hasn't. They're like, carmi, you still haven't seen your mother in God knows fucking how long. And it seems like Tina's the only person in that place who is that maternal figure where it's just like, I'm telling you this because I love you.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Charles Holmes]

And he's just like, it was this. It was this really nice moment seeing, like, Jeremy Allen White, like, realize the acting that he's doing is karmic. Being like, oh, fuck. If Tina's telling me this, of all people, I've royally fucked up. And I think the thing that I've been wondering this entire season is, is the real tragedy of the breakup, because I do think Sid and Carm are gonna break up, is that Carmi's actually gonna change and it's too late. Where it's like, he's actually done everything to get the bear to where it needs to be and successful and a Michelin star, and Luca's there and fucking everybody. Everything's cranky. It's perfect. And the moment Sid decides to leave, she's just like. Because I've had this at work where it's like, you fight for something so much at a job, and shit changes after you leave, and you're like, shit, I didn't even get to life.

[Van Lathan]

Remember the Godfather 2 when Fredo and Michael are sitting down in Cuba and Fredo has the banana daiquiri and Michael's. He has him. It's like. How do you say banana Daiquiri. And then he goes, banana dagger. And he says it. And they're. They're having a good time and they're talking about all of this stuff. And Fredo goes, mike, why haven't we spent time like this before? And that's because he already knows that he has tipped off, even if he didn't try to. You dumb bastard. Johnny Ola and Hyman Roth. To Mike, he already knows that he's betrayed Michael. So he's like, God damn it. If we had just been like this before, then maybe I wouldn't have felt like you were looking past me. I'd have felt more important to you. It wouldn't have been such a big deal. It always happens. It always happens that just when you realize how much something means to you, you've already ready to decide to, like, give it up or go or go next door.

[Charles Holmes]

Do you think that word. There's no way that. Does it feel like we are on that track where that is? Because the more episodes I watch, I'm just like, I don't know. Carmi has an ego. I could see Carmi getting that call.

[Van Lathan]

From Shapiro, like, so it's interesting what happens next, because what happens next could either be that Shapiro lets it slip that Sid is coming over, which then activates Carmi to confront Sid. Then Karmi confronts Sid. Sid says, you told everybody about my dad. And then we have not watched the head guys. And then we get into that whole situation. Or in some way, all of this stuff happens in this episode. They agree to go their separate ways. And then the wedding is an episode where everyone makes their final decision. Because another thing that's happening in the season right now is this wedding is shaping up to be a very consequential thing. Everybody's gonna be at the wedding, which.

[Charles Holmes]

Is also great tv, because it's like, now we have. Carmi wasn't going and is, like, them forcing him to go. He's like. I was like, oh. So Carmi's whole battle is, I'm going to a place where all my family is. He's been in Chicago for God knows how long right now. He still has not reunited with his mom. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Van Lathan]

They say in an episode, yeah, he.

[Charles Holmes]

Hasn'T reunited with his mom. And I think that's going to be probably the biggest, biggest gathering he's had since his. His. His brother passed because he didn't go to the funeral. We have Richie, who is like, do I go? Do I not go? Having to swallow his pride now. Panic attacks Having panic attacks. And now there's Francie, who is like, looming over sugar. And we don't know what that is about. So to your point, it seems like Claire.

[Van Lathan]

Claire will be there. The Facts invited Claire. Claire is going to be at the wedding.

[Charles Holmes]

This is a very Godfather shit. Italian. What is it with Italians in weddings?

[Van Lathan]

I don't want to speak on it because I'm not one of them, but.

[Charles Holmes]

This is the first time.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know what happens.

[Charles Holmes]

You don't know what happens at Italian weddings?

[Van Lathan]

No, I don't want to say either because, like, you know, I'll just say the same thing that Luca said. I hope your first child is a masculine child. There you go. I don't want to speak on it. They. They get mad.

[Charles Holmes]

Can you say that still? I hope your first child is a masculine child. Will you get canceled? Did you say that?

[Van Lathan]

I mean, you could say, but, like, it depends on why you're saying it.

[Charles Holmes]

We need to fucking go, bro. They gotta.

[Van Lathan]

It depends on why you're saying it. It depends on why you're. Why you're saying it. If you're saying that you hope the first child's a masculine child because of some age old patriarchy that the men have to take over or whatever, but.

[Charles Holmes]

If you're just saying that, what's the 2025 version? What is the PC version of that?

[Van Lathan]

I guess the PC is. I hope your child is a liberal child. Hey, look, I'm just saying it's for everyone. You don't have to be a liberal. You can listen to this and if you are at January 6th, all right, you can listen to podcast and enjoy it. It's okay. It's okay. You know, back. I'm sure you know people. That was at January 6th.

[Charles Holmes]

No, don't do that. Justin.

[Van Lathan]

I know. Justin knows some people.

[Charles Holmes]

Definitely knows.

[Van Lathan]

Was that for sure?

[Charles Holmes]

Which podcast is the underwear? Yo, this has been a very special episode of the Prestige TV podcast. All right, we will be back. We have two more episodes. We're going to be doing the next trio, then we're gonna have a special finale episode. Make sure you join us for that. Thank you to CT behind the boars. Thank you to Justin Sales. I didn't get to thank him last episode. Thank you to Kai Grady. He's the greatest.

[Van Lathan]

Donnie now. Is Donnie on there?

[Charles Holmes]

Yo, shout out Donnie.

[Van Lathan]

I didn't know.

[Charles Holmes]

Donnie. Donnie, you back there, sweet booty?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, man.

[Charles Holmes]

Hey, shout out Donnie behind the boards. And, yo, we'll be back very, very soon.