‘The Bear’ Season 4 Finale: Is This the End, or A New Beginning?

Summary

Summary of "The Bear" Season 4 Finale: Is This the End, or A New Beginning?

Podcast: The Prestige TV Podcast
Host: The Ringer
Episode Title: The Bear’ Season 4 Finale: Is This the End, or A New Beginning?
Release Date: July 1, 2025

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Introduction

In the Season 4 finale of The Bear, titled "Goodbye," the narrative reaches a pivotal moment for the protagonist, Carmi, as he grapples with his passion for cooking and his personal turmoil. Hosts Zach Lowe and Van Lathan delve deep into the episode's emotional and narrative intricacies, offering a comprehensive analysis that balances appreciation with critical insight.

Episode Overview

The finale centers on Carmi's decision to step away from his role in the family restaurant, "The Bear." This decision not only affects his relationship with Sid but also challenges the stability and future of the restaurant itself. The episode intertwines themes of burnout, grief, and self-discovery, culminating in a dramatic confrontation that leaves viewers questioning the show's direction.

Plot Analysis

Zach Lowe expresses his initial emotional response to the episode:

“[02:53] Zach Lowe: It was a very emotional episode. Very emotional, live emotions for me.”

The crux of the episode revolves around Carmi revealing his intent to Sid to leave the restaurant, citing a lost passion for cooking and uncertainty about his identity beyond the culinary world. This revelation sets off a series of confrontations and emotional exchanges among the characters.

Van Lathan highlights the tension between personal desires and professional responsibilities:

“[04:06] Van Lathan: It's so annoying. But the plot of this episode of the Bear Goodbye. Everything finally comes to a head as Carmi reveals to Sid that he's leaving her in charge of the restaurant.”

Character Development

Carmi:
Zach critiques Carmi's abrupt decision, questioning the narrative build-up:

“[05:15] Zach Lowe: Carmi leaving the bear seems like it serves the business of television more than it serves the television show.”

Van adds that while Carmi's journey to reconnect with his family was compelling, the decision to leave felt underdeveloped:

“[05:30] Van Lathan: I don't know if they landed the plane. It was very rocky to me.”

Sid:
Sid's reaction to Carmi's departure is met with skepticism about its authenticity:

“[06:31] Van Lathan: Well, they hint. They did hint at it, but it wasn't something that I feel like the show really devoted a lot of time to.”

Richie and Sugar:
Richie's confrontation and Sugar's emotional breakdown are seen as pivotal yet somewhat rushed elements of the finale:

“[10:04] Zach Lowe: That stuff was going to come to a head. It hit me watching my. Some of my favorite people on TV going through all of this stuff.”

Narrative and Direction

The hosts discuss the use of plot devices, particularly the symbolic "clock counting down," which was intended to signify the impending crisis for the restaurant. However, they feel its resolution was abrupt, undermining the episode's impact:

“[14:25] Zach Lowe: They didn't give us anything. It was. There was tell and tell. There was no show.”

Van criticizes the finale for feeling like a "bottle episode," lacking the depth expected from a season finale:

“[10:58] Van Lathan: And to me, I don't know if that was the right choice for. Especially for a finale where it felt like, all right, Sid and Carmi get their turn and they're going to talk about their working relationship.”

Emotional Impact

The episode's raw emotionality is praised, despite critiques on narrative execution. Zach appreciates the unfiltered portrayal of intense conversations:

“[12:10] Zach Lowe: Or intense conversations with people before to where you go, shit, for as long as this takes, I'm right here and I'm not moving.”

A particularly moving scene discussed involves Carmi attending a support group, highlighting his internal struggles:

“[26:12] Zach Lowe: She is. They're in a support group. The support group that Carmicha goes to.”

Critiques and Praise

Abrupt Resolutions:
Zach feels that key plot resolutions were too swift, lacking the necessary buildup:

“[05:15] Zach Lowe: Carmi leaving the bear seems like it serves the business of television more than it serves the television show.”

Character Motivations:
The authenticity of Carmi's motivations to leave is questioned, with Van suggesting a lack of deep exploration:

“[19:10] Van Lathan: You know, I thought that there was still some road.”

Emotional Authenticity vs. Narrative Convenience:
While the emotional beats resonate, the narrative choices sometimes prioritize plot progression over realistic character development.

Speculation on Future Directions

The hosts ponder the show's trajectory should it continue without Carmi, given his central role:

“[20:38] Van Lathan: I was literally like, I can't count the number of people everywhere doing everything.”

They also discuss potential plotlines that could explore Carmi's life outside the restaurant, though skepticism remains about whether the show can maintain its depth without its protagonist:

“[23:16] Van Lathan: But maybe the show is saying that's not how life is, that sometimes decisions just happen and sometimes people just realize what's best for them.”

Conclusion

Zach and Van conclude that while the finale of The Bear Season 4 delivered emotionally charged moments and character introspection, it stumbled in its narrative execution and pacing. The departure of Carmi, though impactful, felt unearned and abrupt, leaving lingering questions about the show's future. Nevertheless, the hosts acknowledge the episode's strengths in acting and emotional resonance, maintaining their appreciation for the series despite its narrative hurdles.

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Notable Quotes:

• Zach Lowe [05:15]: "Carmi leaving the bear seems like it serves the business of television more than it serves the television show."

• Van Lathan [10:04]: "He didn't even know I was as drunk. That's what they took."

• Zach Lowe [19:10]: "I didn't buy it. I enjoyed the episodes. Very emotional, very raw."

• Van Lathan [24:47]: "This is like, I don't want to, like, Take a complete shit on the episode. Because I do think it is, like, a very, very interesting big swing."

These insights provide a window into the hosts' perspectives, balancing critical analysis with a deep appreciation for the show's emotional core.

Transcript

[Zach Lowe]

Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe Show. That's right, I'm back to have the same in depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games. Yeah, the games, the X's and O's, the drama, the trades. The playoffs are coming up and now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel. Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe show on Spotify or wherever you watch or listen to your podcast. Let's go. This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. Planning a few summer projects. Upgrade your toolbox with 4th of July savings. Wow. We're already here with 4th of July savings.

[Van Lathan]

This is great.

[Zach Lowe]

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[Van Lathan]

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[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Now imagine they live in your phone. Say hey to Experian, your big financial friend. It's the app that helps you check your FICO score, find ways to save, and basically feel like a financial genius. And guess what? It's totally free. So go on, download the Experian app. Trust me, having a BFF like this is a total game changer. Welcome to the Steve's TV podcast where we don't know how to smoke a cigarette, but we're doing our best. I'm Charles Holmes. He's Van Lathan. Together we're known as the Midnight Boys. And we're back to discuss season four finale of the Bear. Little housekeeping for y' all. All right, this is our last episode covering season four of the Bear. But if you want some more TV goodness, make sure you tap in with our homies over at the House of R. They are covering Squid Game season three and the Midnight Boys. We're locked in. This week we got a midnight court cooking for you. All right, we got. What else are we talking? Jurassic Park.

[Zach Lowe]

Ironheart.

[Van Lathan]

Iron.

[Zach Lowe]

We're talking about Ironheart.

[Van Lathan]

But today we're talking about the season finale of season four of the Bear Goodbye Directed by Christopher Storer Written by Christopher Storer Before I get into the plot of this episode, how are you feeling? I watched you watch this live at our desk.

[Zach Lowe]

It was a very emotional episode. Very emotional, live emotions for me.

[Van Lathan]

And you kept pausing. It was so emotional. You kept pausing and turning to Jomi and food shaming him, laughing at the food, his. His lunch choices.

[Zach Lowe]

There's a bit that I like to do, a gimmick if you will. I have a lot of different gimmicks, but when someone's eating, I like to watch them eat and go, yeah, take a bite of.

[Van Lathan]

That's my biggest pet peeve. That pisses me off.

[Zach Lowe]

It's like you're eating somebody's eating a burger and you're hanging, you're watching them and you're like, hey man, why don't you take a bite of that burger? They're already eating it. Why don't you take a bite of that burger? For some reason, when someone is eating something, if you ask them to eat it, they'll be like, they don't want to do it.

[Van Lathan]

But it's even worse when it's like a burrito or a burger because I'm just like, there's no way to like eat that shit and look fly. Like you just are like, get in there.

[Zach Lowe]

I started doing this back in the day with shrimp po boys. We would get shrimp po boys from Rainbow Market Gardier, Baton Rouge, Louisiana. We sit down and we eat them and you know, somebody would be tearing their po boy up. I'd be like, hey bro man, handle that shrimp po boy. Get in there. And for some reason it just bothers people and it's funny to me.

[Van Lathan]

It's so annoying. But the plot of this episode of the Bear Goodbye. Everything finally comes to a head as Carmi reveals to Sid that he's leaving her in charge of the restaurant. Carm's reasoning is that he's fallen out of love with cooking and doesn't know who he is as a person without it. Sidney doesn't take the news well and posits that Carm is being self destructive and leaving the restaurant behind just as it's starting to get off the ground. Then Carm and Cindy finally discuss how she was very close to jumping ship to work with Shapiro. This process is then repeated with Richie, who finds out that Carm did in fact show up at Mikey's funeral but left before anyone could see him. Sidney says the only way she'll take over at the Bear is if Carm Adds Richie to the ownership group alongside her and Sugar. And we leave the episode with Sugar hugging a very rock army as a clock that's been ticking all season finally counts down. With all that being said, Van, did they land the plane?

[Zach Lowe]

They did. Wasn't a smooth landing, it was a rocky landing.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know if they landed the plane. It was very rocky to me.

[Zach Lowe]

So let me tell you something. Let me tell you the way I look at this, I liked this episode. I don't buy what happened in this episode narratively.

[Van Lathan]

What part?

[Zach Lowe]

Carmi leaving the bear seems like it serves the business of television more than it serves the television show.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

It serves the fact that for this season to have steadied the show, which I think that it did, and re established some things about the show, which I think that it did, that there wasn't really a real dramatic guillotine hanging over the show, so they kind of jennied something up. You would have thought that perhaps whether or not the bear was going to make it in terms of the countdown would have been the thing, but that ended up kind of being resolved to a degree a little bit. So Carmi leaving, even though it happened, you know, he wanted to change it. The agreement, should I say, a couple episodes ago or whatever it was. And we saw that Carmi leaving is kind of abrupt. It's not well developed, and it's kind of a stunt almost.

[Van Lathan]

Well, they hint. They did hint at it.

[Zach Lowe]

No, no, no. They hinted at it, but it wasn't something that I feel like the show really devoted a lot of time to.

[Van Lathan]

No. Cause it was. There were two tracks, I feel like, for Carmi, and the track that they spent so much time on this season was him getting out of the kitchen and reconnecting with his family, with his mother, with Claire, and coming to terms with that part of his of cooking. To your point, the other track was, is this what he even wants to do? Does he want to continue being a chef? Does he find love and satisfaction in it? And I tend to agree with you where I'm like, the more interesting, the more interesting dramatic tension to me was Sid Carmi at polar ends and being like, who is going to leave? Who is going to stay? Can this restaurant survive? And they kind of, at the end just kind of did the TV thing where it's like, of course restaurant is going to survive. But now Carmi is this nebulous being where either it's going to be like Eric leaving that 70s show, or a very prominent member, like, leaving a show where I'm like, either Jeremy Allen White isn't on the Bear or what I'm more so thinking is, is this Christopher Storr getting to have his cake and eat it too, where he can continue the adventures of Carm outside the restaurant and do the more artistic flourishes, the more off the beaten path episodes while still giving people the sitcom flavor of all your favorite characters are in one place. Like, where did you net out? Because I was just like, they haven't announced that there's going to be a fifth season. There hasn't been a lot of interviews that I've seen. At the end of this finale. Where do you feel like it was going to be?

[Zach Lowe]

I have no clue. I try not to mix up the business of the show with my appreciation for the show as a viewer. Meaning I try not to look at how well is the Bear rating right now? What is the critical response to the Bear? How is the buzz, all of that? Because you can get a gauge of how keen they are to bring a show that has been this type of prestige thief for FX for this long. You can get a gauge on how keen they are to bring that show back by looking at all of those factors for us and the purposes of what we're doing right here and my enjoyment of a show that I've really been into. I try to just look at it as to how I feel about it. And without pontificating too much on whether or not Jeremy Allen White will come back for another season. And I'm only doing this for the purposes of this podcast, obviously. All these questions are in my head. I'm trying to think of what's the real impact and point of what I just looked at and I don't buy it. I enjoyed the episodes. Very emotional, very raw. There was going to be a point where all of this stuff was going to come to a head.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

His appearance at the funeral, for the time that he was there, this situation with him and Sid, just him and Sid's relationship, period.

[Van Lathan]

Yep. All this, the Shapiro call, the Shapiro call, all of that stuff, what the partnership agreement was actually about, all of.

[Zach Lowe]

That stuff was going to come to a head. It hit me watching my. Some of my favorite people on TV going through all of this stuff, but I didn't feel any resolution. I never felt like there was a weight off my shoulders. I never felt like some of the other television moments you go, well, oh wow, it was leading up to this, didn't get there. And maybe it wasn't supposed to.

[Van Lathan]

This episode, goodbye was unrealistic in a way where it's like, obviously none of this is realistic in terms of, like, it's all fantasy, but everything happened in this episode. And usually I feel like the bear is very good at, like, kind of sowing a bunch of the tension and the storylines and the plots together throughout an episode. But it was just like, no, this is Cid, Carmi, Richie in the back of the bear, just having all of the arguments at the same time.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And to me, I don't know if that was the right choice for. Especially for a finale where it felt like, all right, Sid and Carmi get their turn and they're going to talk about their working relationship. Shapiro, what they love, what they hate about each other. Okay, now it's Richie's time, and Richie's going to get to talk. And then sugar's good. And it felt more like watching a factory line than it did feel like a story. Like a story, to your point, that felt, like, resolved in some way. And obviously this is tv and it continues and it continues and it's never resolved. But I did not get that, like, this is a finale episode. It almost felt like a bottle episode.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. I mean, look, there's. As I was watching it, you saw me watching it, I'm like, wow, this is very intense. This is a lot.

[Van Lathan]

Well acted.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, incredibly well acted. And you start to realize they're not gonna give you a break from what's happening here. You're not leaving this spot. Yep. They're not going to take you somewhere else and watch Marcus fuck around. And the facts aren't gonna come in and give you any comedy. You're here, you're in the middle of it. What I appreciated about that is I've been in that situation in arguments with people before.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Zach Lowe]

Or intense conversations with people before to where you go, shit, for as long as this takes, I'm right here and I'm not moving. I can't move. This is my Sunday. This is my Friday afternoon. It's me and her, or me and him, or me and them. And I'm in this right now. You're in this situation. And the show did a fantastic job of making me feel that Carmi won't let Sid out. Sid won't let Carmi out. I have to say this. You have to hear this. There's no more dancing around it. That was great. Richie, the same way, doesn't really know how to approach the conversation with Carmi, doesn't understand what Carmi's trying to say. But after a while, they Come to these great revelations kind of easily.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Richie, you know, has had these things that he wanted to tell Carm for X amount of time, and he never found the motivation or the wherewithal to tell him. And then it just all comes out. And it worked on screen because it was fun and compelling to watch, but I did not feel it. I didn't believe it, you know? You remember Almost Famous?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay, so the band is not fucking getting together, getting along. And there's a plot device that the plane is about to crash that makes all of them start talking about, like, how they really feel about each other and, like, what they really mean and all of that stuff. And you kind of get to a. And there's some comic relief in there, and you kind of get to a situation where you go, oh, okay. Kind of makes sense. And then everybody gets off the plane and they're all frazzled and stuff like that. It wasn't very satisfying. It didn't feel like.

[Van Lathan]

I.

[Zach Lowe]

It just felt like shit happening.

[Van Lathan]

I will say this, for a lot of this season, I feel like there have been, to your point, these. These plot devices, these constructs where it's like, the biggest one was the clock counting down. And that's what they, like Storer and company were. Were telling the audience, like, all right, they have the X amount of time for the bear to continue and to be successful. And even that felt a little bit like, oh, that wasn't really the most important thing.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, no. The clock was counting down to this moment. It wasn't counting down until the end of the restaurant. It was kind of down to this moment.

[Van Lathan]

But when we get to this moment, to your point, it felt a little bit artificial. Like the reality of how. I agree with you. The reality of how people argue in that moment where it's like, we're not leaving Sidney. And Carmi. And Carmi and Richie were always leading to this moment. But there was a point where I was just like, but why tonight? Like, what was it about tonight that this was the moment?

[Zach Lowe]

Right?

[Van Lathan]

And I don't know if they really set that up. Well, we don't even get to see. And this is an artistic choice, what happened in the kitchen. We just get the two of them talking like you were ignoring me the entire night. That doesn't feel good. What's going on? And part of me almost kind of wanted to see what was.

[Zach Lowe]

What precipitated the.

[Van Lathan]

You know what I'm saying? Because what was the. What was the last episode before this? Sorry, we took a week.

[Zach Lowe]

The Weekend is the one where Marcus gets his Chef Ness at the end.

[Van Lathan]

Yes. So that's, to me, a little even jarring where it's just like I left that episode being like, oh, okay. They kind of figured it out. Marcus is now one of the best new chefs. It seems like Uncle Jimmy and computer have figured out that there is potentially a way to keep this financially going. And I was like, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. We don't get to really see any of kind of the aftermath of that. We just get. They both walk out of the door, and we're right into the argument. Which works narratively for the episode. I don't know if it works for the season. Right. It makes me almost. I ding the season a little bit more after this episode, I'm gonna be.

[Zach Lowe]

Honest, because him leaving the bear is a fucking gigantic thing. It's a huge thing.

[Van Lathan]

It doesn't feel gigantic.

[Zach Lowe]

It doesn't feel like that big of a deal. It doesn't. It feels like a life altering. A life altering decision made. Lowercase.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Zach Lowe]

You know, it doesn't feel like that big of a deal. I'm like, okay, well, so he's gone. So he just decided he couldn't cook anymore. He was cooking for all of these reasons that were outside of his actual love for cooking. Cooking was an escape. The obsession was an escape. And he continued to stack up challenges to go back and get that feeling, and he doesn't want to feel that way anymore. So now he's gone. There also comes a point in watching shows like this, particularly workplace shows where we have jobs.

[Van Lathan]

Yes.

[Zach Lowe]

We have passions, we have goals. As people, we understand what it's like to sacrifice for our passions, to sacrifice for our goals. Now doubt I'm as good at anything as Carmi is at cooking. But still, it's like for you to make such a monumental choice about your life. Oh, no, what's he gonna do now? Is he gonna be a paperboy? Be a blogger? Like, he's gonna be a food critic? Like, what is. Like, what's gonna happen? They didn't give us anything. It was. There was tell and tell. There was no show. So when you look at the entire season, it's a season where a lot of really dramatic things happened but then were resolved immediately.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Well, can I ask you this? Because I don't want to leave your point too fast. I had watched this entire season being on, at least for Carmi's journey, being like, okay, well, Sugar is noticing that he's falling out of love with cooking and is the show and the writers and part of the engine of this season trying to tell us, what do you do when the thing that helps you through life, helps you through trauma and abuse is no longer that thing? And I'm like, that's interesting. But the minute he started talking, and this is probably good writing, the minute he started talking to Sid, and Sid's face is kind of like, I don't love my job all the time. I don't love cooking all the time. She starts making very valid arguments where I was just like, I almost got taken out of the show, where I was just like, yeah, Karmi is acting kind of like a little bitch. Not to be mad.

[Zach Lowe]

I get it. But, I mean, they told us that he was falling out of love with it, but they didn't make the case, though.

[Van Lathan]

That is, you said it. They did not make the case. I didn't leave this. I. Throughout the whole season, I could understand that he was falling out of love with cooking, but they almost made it seem too black and white. Like, 0, 100, where I'm like, this is all a scale. I did not know that he was this out of love with cooking.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

You know, I thought there. I thought that there was still some road. And I'll ask you this. I don't even know if I believe in the gigantic decision that they're making where I'm like, all right, we still kind of have this Michelin star hanging over our head. Carmi is like, I'm not leaving until we get the restaurant financially to a place, and then I'm going. So I'm just like, if we get a season five and it's a pump fake and Jeremy Allen White is just in. Is just in the bear still cooking, there is going to be a part of me where I was just like, wait, what was all that for then?

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

You know what I mean?

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, to be honest with you, you can look at this season as kind of proof of concept that they could do the show without him, because a lot of the drama, humor, all of that stuff this season doesn't have much to do with Carmi there. He still is the center of it, and it's still his POV and all of that. But this was. He wasn't doing the heavy lifting in this season that he was doing in seasons past. So if they're looking to do the show without him and bring everybody back, which, once again, you know, we're talking about this huge summer in movies that is about to take place, and you're seeing fucking Richie, as Ben Grimm, you're Carmi's Bruce Springsteen.

[Van Lathan]

I was literally like, I can't count the number of people everywhere doing everything.

[Zach Lowe]

So, you know, part of this might just be the old big B business happening, but I don't know, I watched it and I was like, huh, what a good half hour, one act play of the bear. Yes, like, what a good half hour, one act play of the bear. Do I believe that the show did enough to make me believe that Carmi, who has completely oriented his life around being a fantastic chef, is just gonna leave and not cook anymore? Have they showed anything else that can replace what cooking is in his life?

[Van Lathan]

I mean, was that, was that the reason why they were sprinkling in, like his love of architecture and him on his days off going to a museum or like when he's talking about like in previous seasons, it seemed like he enjoyed decorating the restaurant and building the restaurant and what chairs go like more than he loved the food. So have they, I feel like they have been sprinkling that. He does have other interests. He just doesn't know them. But once again, I'm like, over a season of fucking television, it's, you gotta do a little bit more work, you know?

[Zach Lowe]

I know, what I'm saying is. Yeah, I know he has other interests. Michael Jordan loves cigars. You know what I'm saying? Like, he, he has other interests. Michael Jordan liked to play golf. Michael Jordan likes cigars. Like, if you know about mj, you know, there's other shit that he like to do. Play a little golf, cigar, maybe put down a little wager. Okay. Like there's other things he likes to do, but the center of his life, how he measures himself. His religion is basketball.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And if we, if I'm thinking about Michael Jordan, when Michael Jordan gave up basketball for the small amount of time that he gave it up to Chicago Legends we're talking about right now, Carmi and Jordan, the reason why he did it and all this is what I'm talking about, real life. Now. I know this was a tremendous tragedy for the Jordan family and for the sports world. But the reason why he did it was that type of earth shattering perspective realignment thing. Intense, immense tragedy regarding someone who we had always seen with Michael, which was his father. So when he decides that he's going to take time off and not play basketball, a lot of people went. That makes a lot of sense.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Like, it makes sense that he would do that. Like, it makes sense that. I mean, there's another way to look at it too. But it makes sense. He needs to clear his head in some way. How do you clear your head from something that terrible happening to you, from something that formative happening to you, like reformative meaning? Cause he's like 30 year old guy when it happens or whatever it is. Like how do you make sense of that? Like what do you do? How do you get your life back on track when something that happens and it's everywhere. So maybe you go play minor league baseball or something like that and then you come back to whatever. You come back to the thing that you love, when you can breathe again. Right? That just didn't happen here. And I'm not saying that it had to. I'm not saying that something that tragic had to happen. Maybe him reconciling with his mother was supposed to be that. Maybe this show is saying that's not how life is, that sometimes decisions just happen and sometimes people just realize what's best for them. And maybe it's the culmination, maybe it's clear, maybe it's mom, maybe it's the conversation he has with his uncle. Maybe it's him realizing that things were just markedly different than he thought that they were and he's different than he thought that he was. All of that could be true if that's the case. I needed a couple of more episodes or I needed. I just didn't feel it when it happened.

[Van Lathan]

If we're giving the writing credit, do you think that what they're trying to say, because I do agree with you, where it's like traditionally you kind of need something more explosive to lead to what is also another explosive decision, which is I'm leaving the thing that I love and I built. But you could also say that when Richie realizes that Carm came to the funeral and left, I think that that was part of the show being like the grieving process is not a straight line. Some people grieve right after the death and then some. It takes people years. Like when you talk to therapists or grief counselors, like some people, it takes them 3, 4, 5 years, 10 years, 15 years. And it hits them and then it's like it happened yesterday. And I think partially. Is that happening to Carmi?

[Zach Lowe]

It could be. That's a very astute point. He could really just be starting to process the grief that he feels for his brother. And not just his brother, but we've talked about his brother, we've talked about his dad, the absence of his mother. He could be grieving a lot of different aspects of the life that he thought that he wanted to have. Yeah. And maybe the first stage of that. And look, we've also been. There's a scene that we haven't talked about this season. It was a great scene. It's with that lady from. Sorry to bother your. You. The white lady. I'm sorry to bother you.

[Van Lathan]

Racine.

[Zach Lowe]

She is. They're in a support group. The support group that Carmicha goes to.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yes. That was a great. Yeah, yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Fantastic scene. I don't know why we miss it. She's talking about this incident that happened with her brother. What happened was she's leaving her brother, struggled with addiction, and she told her brother to, like, water her plants.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And she comes back and her worst fears about leaving him by himself or.

[Van Lathan]

Realized a bunch of addicts are in her house.

[Zach Lowe]

Naked people on the couch, throw up empty pizza boxes. The whole nine. They've obviously been raging on benders. And the whole nine. They get to. She gets to her brother. Her brother is in the bathtub fully dressed, not where she thought he was going to be, which is OD'd somewhere. She finds him in the bathroom fully dressed, and she sits down and she looks at him and starts crying. And he says to her, brilliantly. Brilliantly written monologue, by the way. Brilliantly written monologue. He looks at her and he says, I watered the plants. Right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And when I watched that, I watched that like three times in a row. Right. The point of that, to me, is her talking about the things that she knew. She. The thing that. The stuff that she thought meant stability. What she thought meant stability was him watering the plants.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

That was the thing she was afraid of. She would think if he can remember to water the plants, or if he can water the plants, if he has enough responsibility, enough consistency to water the plants, then that must mean he's okay.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

But that doesn't mean that. There's no one thing that means you're okay. So if you're an excellent cook, if you're great at your job, if you're always on time, there's no one thing that means you're okay. Because he did water the plants. But everything else was fucked up. And for Carmi, he was a great chef. Is a great chef, but everything else was fucked up. And I knew that that's what that meant, but I thought we would resolve it in a more linear way, or I thought I would know when it was time to begin to resolve it. I didn't. I didn't see it coming. It didn't not only did I not see it coming, I never. The show never got me to the point to where I felt like it had to happen. And that's the thing. It's like, okay, well, shit, it's really fucking happened to Carmi right now. Like, Carmie is. It's whatever. It's just. He just kind of relented. Over the course of three or four episodes, someone would say, give me less components. He'd be like, yep. Someone would say, hey, do it this way. He would be like, yep. Someone would say, yeah, he just relented. And it was in. Maybe things will change after. The immediacy of the episode kind of washes over me, and I go, hmm, maybe this was a different way to tell this story, but. But for right now, it kind of landed with a little bit of a thud. I still love this season, and I love this episode, but it landed with a little bit of a thud.

[Van Lathan]

So to you, then, what do you think the significance of Carmi picking up a cigarette and smoking again? Because what I realized in that moment where I was like, it doesn't feel like. I don't know if the show is operating in this gray area for me, where could you argue that CID is potentially right and that Carmi is pushing away his family, these people, something that's finally going good and potentially that, like, he's doing things for the right reasons. But to me, when he picks up the cigarette again, I'm like, you're doing this because you do want to save the restaurant, but you are going about it in the least effective way possible. In almost a very. I felt over the course of this episode, I'm like, Carmi's going about this in a very destructive way. Way. Like, there was a. There was a lot. Like, he could have had a conversation with Sid about, like, here's what I'm thinking about, like, myself and my role. This is why I want to leave. I want to change this. What do you think about it? Same thing with Richie being like, hey, Rich, like, instead of doing that, basically, they have to catch him in it. You know what I'm saying? It's not an ambush. But it starts to feel like that because he's, like, freaking out. He's like, yo, give me time. It's. Let me explain. And I'm like, to me, the part of the cigarette is. I'm just like, is he actually going back to some of his old ways?

[Zach Lowe]

He is. I think it kind of illustrates that he just can't be at this point in his life A fully functional person. He kind of emotionally rods from Peter to pay Paul.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

So, you know, as you get older, what you start to realize is, you know, I spent my entire 30s at TMZ. Spent my entire 30s at TMZ ripping and running, being a bad partner, being a bad son, Being, like, burning myself out, like, trying to be up on everything. And I wasn't, like, breaking a whole bunch of stories because I didn't want to talk to people. You know, it's very difficult to talk to somebody after they've had a dui. Cause like, a celebrity talking to you about their dui, like, after they've had it. Because other people would talk to reps. But some of these people. I know these people. And so, like, I would be see them around town and stuff like that. So I get them on the phone, man, what happened, bro? Man, yo, you ever had. Funny, I won't name the celebrity, but I was like, yo, bruh, like, you know, they got you. It's the whole thing. It's like, hey, man, you ever had a fireball? I'm like, what? Yeah, this happened. He was like, I'm like, yeah, I had a fireball. He was like, man, them fireballs, they taste like peppermint. I'm like, yeah, I'm aware of what? Like, what are you talking about? He's like, man, I was on them fireballs, and I just burst into laughter. So you mean to tell me you this kind of. You got this kind of career going and you get a dui and what you gonna tell me on the phone is, man, I was on them fireballs, and I didn't even know I was as drunk. That's what they took. And I didn't really even know what the joint was then. Cause I didn't drink them in college. Like.

[Van Lathan]

But also, what celebrities drinking. Like, come on, bro.

[Zach Lowe]

You'd have to know that this was at. So this was at a party. Somebody was leaving a party in the Valley, and they were going back to where they live. And at this party in the Valley, I think maybe the people might have been a little bit younger or whatever. And they were on the fireballs and didn't realize how fucked up they were. They were taking a fireball. They would hit the fire. The fireball was hitting them, right? So but for me. But that call was happening at some weird, random time where I should have been paying attention to something else. Like, I was with. Me and Khalig were at dinner, and I'm getting that call. I'm like, I have to take that call. So then I have to go outside and I have to massage this person, and then I have to. Cause when they first pick up, they're gonna be mad. How could you do this? You should help me. Not this. Not make the site and all of this stuff. I can't do any of that. Like, I have to talk to them. It's gonna take a while. And that's coming out of my life. Like, that's taking a chunk out of my life. That, like, even me to be able to come back and know that. I'm saying this call right now is more important than this dinner with this person. This call right now is more important than anybody else who called while I was doing that. And if you're in that life, that's the way that it's going down. So when I watched them have. When I watched Carmi, and when I watched them have that conversation, the cigarette almost was like a hot potato. It almost was like Carmi was gonna smoke the cigarette. She's trying to smoke the cigarette. They're trying to share the weight in there. They're trying to share the weight. They're trying to share the emotionality of this. But it can't be shared. That's why when Sugar comes in at the end, she just breaks it down. She sees Em. It's all empathy. It's all emotion. It's tears. It's a hug. Roll credits. Because everyone else is. They're trying to share it, and maybe they're trying to disperse it for us and they're trying to make us. They're trying to give us Richie's stuff and Sid's stuff. Sid is smoking for the first time because she is in this situation with the Berzados for the first time. It's almost like she's taking communion.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

So it's like all of this stuff is happening and I'm watching it and I get it. I get it. I get it. I totally get it. I relate to it. I. I relate to people who have been too obsessed with career. I relate to all of that. But it's just tv.

[Van Lathan]

Honestly. You brought up the Godfather in one of the prior episodes. This does feel like, to your point, like this is a baptism for Sid. This is a communion where it's just like, you decided to be part of the family. This is what being part of the family is and means.

[Zach Lowe]

Being let down by Carmi.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. But also what I think is so true about it. And this is why it's like, I don't want to, like, Take a complete shit on the episode. Because I do think it is, like, a very, very interesting big swing, is that there is some truth. Because I've been through it. You've probably been through it, where it's like, when you're the person who's finally been burnt out and you're just like, it's an emergency. Like, I can't do this. I can't be here. I can't work here. I've had both things happen. I've had members of my family being like, just give me, like, get out of there, whatever. And. And then the people you work with being like, no, we support you. We love you, but, like, we're doing something special. Like, we're your family, too. Like, da, da, da, da. And that thing where it's like, I get where Sid is coming from, where it's just like, well, I'm your family. I've just become like, I've just invested in you again, and you're leaving me with this.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And even the Shapiro shit, to me was very, very telling because it was like, when Carmi does that little bit, like, we're gonna go, shapiro, I'm better than Shapiro. Like, I was like, oh, well, he didn't.

[Zach Lowe]

It was funny for. That was funny. He was like, you're better than him. Yeah, smoke him. And you do, too. And then she goes, fuck off. Because he was just. He was letting her know, if you want to get your shit off and you want to go and do your own thing, that's not the way to go. And he also. That was the most interesting part of the episode. I'm glad that you brought that up. He knew the whole time.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And as the audience, I guess we kind of get that sense after he gets a text. As the audience, we get the feeling that she's hiding this bit secret from him, and she's got this big decision to make. But he goes, hey, you know, I've known him a long time. Like, I've known.

[Van Lathan]

Like, it almost felt like he was just like. I thought he was gonna get surprised by the call. It almost felt like he's just like. I knew Shapiro was sniffing around here. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

He's like, I've known him for a long time. And the way he looked at it was. I mean, that shit's beneath you.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

This n. Not one of us. I mean, that. I mean, seriously, that's the way he was looking at it. He was looking like he found Shapiro to be such an unserious challenger for Sid's services that he didn't even freak out about it because he knew she wouldn't do that. He's like, yeah. He's like, I'm better than him. You're better than him too. Like, yeah, you could have done this. You could do all kinds of stuff. But I think him having that back and forth with her was him reiterating to her that he really does believe that she's good enough to run the restaurant without him. Let's say Carmi didn't believe that Sid was good enough to run the bear without him. Would he have left anyway?

[Van Lathan]

I'll say. The problem with that question is I don't think he even would have got. I don't even think he would have made the bear if Sid was not there. Like, I think that that's the thing that they've never understood.

[Zach Lowe]

He says. He says, you're the bear in the episode. Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like, I think he was just like, when he finds the money at the end of season one and he kind of has a light bulb of like, what we're gonna do. I don't think we ever discussed this. You wanna know what I really think happened? The bear was his dream, was Mikey's dream with Carm. And I think once Mikey died, that dream was gone. And I think the minute Sid walks through that door and he sees how good of a chef he is, that relation, he becomes the older brother, he becomes the Mikey. And I think he's like. In the same way Mikey was just like, no, you're the bear. You're the future of this family. You can do this. I think Carmi is being the Mikey to Sid being like, you can do this. And Sid just cannot see it. It takes Sid so. Because, like, it's the same thing with Carm is surprised when his uncle is just like, yo, he talked about you all the time. He remembered the dishes. He remembered everything you said. I think that they're having that relationship dynamic of, like, no matter what Sid hears from Carm, it's never enough because she's the little sister.

[Zach Lowe]

How do you reconcile that thought with the fact that it was only Mikey's death that brought Carmi back to Chicago?

[Van Lathan]

Here's the thing. I think that Carmi. I think Carmi was always on a crash course whether Mikey was here or not to come back to Chicago. I actually think it hurt him that he had to leave. And that's what makes this whole thing funny about him leaving the Baron.

[Zach Lowe]

Seems like he got pushed away.

[Van Lathan]

That's what I'm saying. That's his Major guilt. His major guilt is I wasn't around for Mikey. He pushed me out. Cause remember Mikey didn't want him to work at the restaurant. He's like, get the fuck out of here. Sugar is giving him money. People are like his whole family, it seems basically did something where they were just like, hey, we're all kind of working in tandem to get Carmi out of Chicago.

[Zach Lowe]

Honestly, that kind of explains a lot of the way that he acts. Cuz he's kind of a spoiled brat a little bit.

[Van Lathan]

They treat him like the baby.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, right. And he kind of acts that way. Right. He like. And that's another part of it that I'm actually thankful that they tell the story the way they have to tell it. This entire thing is this man looking for the right way to grow up.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Is the right way to grow up to pour into your ridiculous talents. We only do this with talented people, by the way. The only group, I swear to God, the only group of people that we care how they grow up is talented people. If you're not talented, no one gives a shit. Hey, oh my God. He's 19 years old. He's just got 30 million from the NBA. Who's gonna take care of him? You know what I mean? 19 year olds need somebody to take care of them. Need somebody to give them. You don't care about them. We all like, we. This is like such a low brow take. But I'm like, Carmi, I'm not saying I'm breaking news to everyone. Yes. When people are blessed with these talents and these opportunities, people act like it's the biggest tragedy in the world when they don't succeed. And when you have people that just need jobs and stability and all of that, we fucking treat them as completely disposable. So Carmi's entire family realizes that he's a fantastic chef. Maybe they don't realize that he's a fantastic chef, but I think that they do realize that he's a fantastic chef. And so they take a lot of shit off this guy.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Like you could not come around if you did not come to one of. If we had a family funeral and you just didn't show up to that bitch.

[Van Lathan]

The people I've. This has happened in my life, the siblings and the people who have not shown up at certain funerals, that shit still gets brought up. It's like a little like you ain't shit. Which is why when Richie's that mad, I felt that in my bones. Because to Richie, his belief is like ay Yo, Carmi. Like, I think of you differently because you didn't show up. And then the minute where it's like, no, I did. That is.

[Zach Lowe]

They almost come to blows.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Cause Richie's like, why are you fucking with me? Right? They almost come to blows. They do that weird white boy. You know how white boys put their heads together? Why y' all do that?

[Van Lathan]

Why white ct. Ct. Why do white boys do that?

[Zach Lowe]

Like, when. Cause ct. Why? Like, why? Sometimes when white boys getting ready to fight and they kind of don't really want to fight. Yeah, they. They. Why they put their hands together like two rams? Like, why they do that? I haven't been involved with a lot of fights, but I have to imagine it's like, the toughest you can look without actually getting into a fight. That's the great. That's the great answer. You can still look tough. Like, we. It is.

[Van Lathan]

You know, what's the black version of that?

[Zach Lowe]

There used to be Knock the chip off my shoulder. Did y' all have that? That was kind of old.

[Van Lathan]

What was that?

[Zach Lowe]

So knocked the chip off my shoulder. Now, I will say this. In Baton Rouge, it's not much hemming and han. Cause like, when the fight. When two people know that they about to fight, the crowd will make you fight, or the old head will make you fight or whatever. It's really toxic. I can't tell you how many times there's been somebody sitting with a beer. Like, both of y' all pussy. I've been watching y' all bump your goddamn gums for five minutes. Both of y' all pussy. Do something. You fucking 42 years old.

[Van Lathan]

This is what this is. Wait, so what's knocking you Knock the.

[Zach Lowe]

So knocking the chip off the shoulder is. There was something that would happen where you would grab, like, something off the ground. It's like a rock. It's a little piece of stick or something like that. And you put it on your shoulder, and you'd be like, knock this off my shoulder. And if the person knocks it off your shoulder, then it's on. Now you're putting them in a situation to where you not willing to throw the first punch. Maybe they not willing to throw the first punch, but you still want to call their shit a little bit. So you put the shit on their shoulder and you go, knock that shit off my shoulder. Now, this is, like, young. And then if you knock it off, you got to do it. But that's the. I guess the putting their heads together.

[Van Lathan]

This is all races. But my favorite, Whenever anybody does it take their shirt off. I'm like, all right, man, we don't gotta do all this.

[Zach Lowe]

Can I tell you something, though? If somebody started taking their shirt off in front of me, I would hit them while they were taking the shirt off.

[Van Lathan]

What?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, for sure.

[Van Lathan]

That's dirty. Same thing. If somebody's starting to take their chain off, you just.

[Zach Lowe]

If we. To the point to where you're getting ready for the thing, and I know that a fight is happening. This was used to be so much. This is also toxic. I apologize. But it would be a point to where, like, I would be so pent up and, like, actually scared. Right? Scared. But the fear was more of the uncertainty. Like, not knowing what was going to happen. But the kind of guy I've always been. And once I know something is going to happen, there's a wave of calm. Like when I first started moderating panels and speaking publicly and doing all of that stuff. Going up to the stage on the way over. Fear, fear, fear. Get out there on the stage, see the crowd, everything's okay. So once I know that we are fighting, I'm good. And that taking of your shirt off, you want to fight or you're trying to tell everybody else that you want to fight and I'm not about to do it. And so now you're trying to make me look like a hoe. If I see you taking your shirt off, I'm gonna hit you while you're taking the shirt off. Straight up. I'm running to you while he's taking the shirt off. I don't give a fuck. Fuck that shit. That place is dangerous, man. You gotta get a couple of dubs on, whatever. How do we get on this? But so what I'm saying is that, like, in that situation where that they're really. They're releasing emotion that is so pent up over such an intensely painful moment in both of their lives that they could have possibly bonded over.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, even. It broke my heart when Richie was just like. When Richie was describing his thought of how Carmi's life was going. Cause he tells that story about him and Mikey going on the road trip. It was the best day. Like, it was the best day. We were just driving down, listening to music, and he's like. I was like, this must be how Carmi is living every day. And Carmi looks at him just like I was going through fucking hell. What are you. And I'm like, to bring it back. I think that that's what's funny about the Barrazados is I could see all the Barrazados being like, oh, shit. Carmi's so talented. He got out. He's living the best version of his life. And Carmi is just like, my family pushed me away. The only thing I want to do is be back in Chicago. Because that's some real shit, too, when the most talented person in your family leaves the hometown. I've seen it happen both ways, where everybody's just like, yo, I know he's doing good. I know he's killing it. And then somebody else is like, fuck, I'm not near my people. I don't know anyone. I'm scared. I'm scrapping. And, like, when you come back home, people want you to have this feeling of just like, tell us everything that happened. Tell us how good your life is. And you're almost like, shit, I can't really share with them that I am, like, not okay. I'm struggling. And then to add onto that fact, the person I love the most in the world died, and I wasn't here.

[Zach Lowe]

It's true. I mean, this season, if I was kind of reducing it down, it's kind of everybody growing into their roles. Richie kind of growing into the role of being the rock of that portion of the restaurant. Sid growing into her role as the head chef of the Bear. The person that makes things better there. Yeah, because there's a difference between the talent and the person that makes things better. In a lot of bands that you guys listen to, there's one person that is the most talented person, and then there are other people in that band that are keeping that band together.

[Van Lathan]

So, I mean. And everything is sports. It's just like, there's the most talented person, and then there's the person where you just, like. You hear about the locker room guy.

[Zach Lowe]

You hear about, like, that person has to be talented, too. Don't get me wrong. Right? But there's normally somebody that's keeping that shit on schedule. Because, man, if you've been around a lot of talent in your life and everybody listens to this, I'm sure has. There is nothing, nothing more frustrated than a highly talented person.

[Van Lathan]

I'll just say this for all the people who be making fun of rappers, weed carriers, what you'll actually realize is a lot of time the weed carrier is the one person in the world when that talented person is going off the fucking deep end, that can talk.

[Zach Lowe]

To them, that could talk to them and be like.

[Van Lathan]

Like, the manager. Everybody's like, I'm not talking to anyone. Like, hey, young man. Right. Like.

[Zach Lowe]

And then Sugar as the caretaker of the family.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Sugar as something that the brazados don't seem to have had in a long time, which is somebody who cares about everybody else enough to emotionally sacrifice for them, didn't seem like their dad was capable of it. Their mother certainly hasn't been capable of it, even though you see her trying to do it. But Sugar seems like the person that is cool enough to make room for everyone to talk to her and to care about that. That's why it was so funny when she was going off about Franny.

[Van Lathan]

Fact.

[Zach Lowe]

Because everyone wants Sugar's love so much. And Fact is back there, like, am I still your special little boy? She's like, no, you have devastated me.

[Van Lathan]

But Carmi's actually doing the thing that his mom couldn't, where it's like, you could read. You could read this. As he knows he's the toxic component in this, and he's trying to remove himself before he makes things worse.

[Zach Lowe]

And Carmi's thing of all of that stuff is just trying to be a person. He's just trying to be a guy, a dude, and giving himself space to love, giving himself space to be vulnerable, to stop throwing his vulnerabilities into recipes. He says in the episode, he goes, there's nothing for me to pull from, to draw on the thing that was there to pull from and draw on. The reason why he could take that unbelievable brow beating that he took from Joe McHale's character, the chef. The reason why that was all there is because it was pure escapism. It was either that or going back to a place that he couldn't go back to because it was too hard. So, I mean, what do they say about music?

[Van Lathan]

You got your whole life to make your debut album, and then artists get to the second, third, and they don't have that thing to draw on anymore. It's like, oh, I had a lifetime of trauma, and now it's just kind of like, what's the third, fourth album? When you're trying to get over that shit.

[Zach Lowe]

That's why I think that musicians, basically rappers, they should try a new religion every three years. I've always thought this. If you're a musician, you should do a new religion every three years. No. Yeah, you should. Because I'll tell you why. Back in the day, it used to be different. Like, you know, Led Zeppelin would write a song about fucking Lord of the Rings or some shit like that Fan of Fire's a Mordor and we're coming for you you know what I'm saying? Like, that would, you know. But these rappers, I want to hear. I want to hear the Christian. I want to hear the, you know, Muslim. I want to hear the Muslim. I want to hear these Talmud raps. I want to hear these Hindu raps. Nah, I don't want to hear.

[Van Lathan]

I don't want no black Israelite raps, bro.

[Zach Lowe]

I want to hear all of it, bro. I want to hear the new shit that you done learned, you know what I'm saying? I want to hear different shit. I want you to fuck with a cult a little bit. Kanye joined that cult that he actually started his own cult, and then he made an album around it. And that album was kind of all right.

[Van Lathan]

Jesus is King.

[Zach Lowe]

Nah, that one was not.

[Van Lathan]

But that was a cult album.

[Zach Lowe]

That was a cult album. That was all right. But, Donda, you know, while we're talking about. We might as well talk about what a great fucking artist Hitler was at this point. But what I'm saying is, I think sometimes you got to switch it up. And maybe Carmi now will, now that he's a normal guy, maybe he'll do normal guy plates. Maybe he'll go work at the Bear lunch counter.

[Van Lathan]

Ooh. Honestly, Karmi, I agree with you. A little spoiled. Maybe he needs to be next to Ibrah, sling some sandwiches, get his fucking mind right.

[Zach Lowe]

Or maybe he'll be a fucking bum on Clare Bear's couch. And last thing I'll ask you, will the people in Carmi's world accept him not cooking?

[Van Lathan]

I don't think so. Because if I know anything about just life and what makes good tension and good storytelling, there is nothing that the people in people in your life hate most or more than you being in that in between zone.

[Zach Lowe]

They don't like it when you're good at something and you don't do it. Your family don't like it when you're really good at something and you don't do it. They do not like that because it.

[Van Lathan]

Is their conception of you. The conception even that not just the world, but Carmi's family has of him is, we understand you. When you are in the kitchen cooking, that is you at your best self, even when you're freaking out, whatever. To your point, people love talent. And they. They can say, through all the drug abuse and addiction that this family has gone through and all the trauma and everything, it was worth it. We see it on the plate. It was worth it. And I'm wondering, when there's no longer that plate, how do do people keep. Do people give Karby the benefit of the doubt when his talent is not the thing that he's selling them? I wouldn't.

[Zach Lowe]

We shall see. Cause when he's not cooking, he's nothing but chain smoking moody emo. Moody emo? Yeah. Like, the best thing about him is that, like, he can do all of this stuff and make a great plate. Now he gonna have to go out here and be a person. Good luck, Karmi.

[Van Lathan]

That first time, you know, your uncle, he be pulling in them checks and he retires and he's thinking he's around the house too much. He gonna be her in Claire's apartment. She like, yeah, get a job.

[Zach Lowe]

Claire. Claire about to be a doctor telling you. Or she just finished her residency or whatever.

[Van Lathan]

Yo, guys. That has been our coverage of the Bear Season four. Thank you so much for supporting us, listening to us. Thank you to Van. Thank you to our boy behind the. Behind the keys, the board, Connecticut. Thank you to Kai for all of his work this season editing. Kai is our man. And thank you so much to, you know, the czar of prestige tv, Justin Sales. And, you know, we'll be back very soon.

[Zach Lowe]

We gonna take CT out to get in the fight. Ct, your goal for this summer is to get in a fight? We gonna get. I'm gonna bring somebody.

[Van Lathan]

All the white boys at the ringer. My goal is we gonna get him into some fights.

[Zach Lowe]

All of them. I want all of y' all to fight. Actually, Steve, we could do a white boy ringers fight club and we could preside over it.

[Van Lathan]

Rob Mahoney. Steve. Steve.

[Zach Lowe]

Rob Mahoney taking everybody. I think. I think Rob Mahoney. Rob Mahoney got perfect posture. Reach the whole line.

[Van Lathan]

Wait, Ryan Rossillo ain't in this.

[Zach Lowe]

Ryan. If Ryan. Ryan can't be in it. Because if Ryan got in it, Ryan probably gonna wreck everybody. Ryan would be flossing with Ryan Diesel, bro.

[Van Lathan]

Let's run out of place there.