‘The Bear’ Season 5, Episodes 5-8: Every Second Counts

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast: ‘The Bear’ Season 5, Episodes 5-8 — Every Second Counts
Date: June 29, 2026
Hosts: Charles Holmes & Van Lathan (“Midnight Boys”)

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Charles Holmes and Van Lathan reunite as the “Midnight Boys” for a passionate, in-depth discussion about the series finale of The Bear. They break down the last four episodes (5–8) of the final season, exploring how the show concludes its themes of ambition, leadership, and personal growth. The hosts celebrate the ensemble cast’s journeys, reflect on what the ending says about fulfillment and family, and honestly assess the show’s legacy.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Thematic Closure: Ambition, Fulfillment, and Letting Go

• Carmi’s Journey:
  • Instead of ending with Carmi as the world’s best chef, the finale pivots to his journey towards personal health and fulfillment outside the kitchen.
    • “You thought that this show was the origin story of Karmi as the best chef in the world. But it was really kind of the origin story of Carmi as a healthy person.” (Van, 02:37)
  • Breaking toxic patterns is a recurring motif:
    • “To break patterns, you have to break patterns.” (Carmi, as quoted by Van, 02:52)
  • The show finds its heart not in culinary achievement, but in learning when to walk away.
• Sid’s Leadership:
  • The emotional handoff from Carmi to Sid is central, especially in the scene where Sid receives the two-star news, then immediately returns to her station, handling stress in her own way.
    • “Sid does something that Carmi almost can’t, which is she runs out and hugs him...this always was a love story...Carmi realizing for me to be my full self, I have to not only step away from this woman, but allow her to take on something, because I can’t.” (Charles, 03:29)
• Passing the Torch:
  • The season frames Carmi as Obi-Wan to Sid’s Luke, evolving from protagonist to mentor and supporter.
    • “Some people are Luke and some people are Obi Wan...the greatest contribution you have might be getting the greatest Jedi of all time ready to go do their thing. It might be giving back.” (Van, 05:05)

Achieving and Surpassing Dreams

• Beyond Traditional Endings:
  • Holmes appreciates that the ending resists “buzzer beater” heroics, instead illustrating continued struggle and self-discovery after success.
  • The show prioritizes emotional truth and character development over fan-pleasing tropes.
• Dreams vs. Fulfillment:
  • “Yeah, you can achieve your dreams in real life. There's still something after. And maybe that thing you were chasing and you were achieving is not actually what's going to make you a fully self-actualized person.” (Charles, 03:29)

Leadership Styles and Generational Change

• Contrast in Leadership:
  • Sid’s approach welcomes mistakes and emphasizes trust, contrasting with Carmi’s stressful intensity.
    • “Carmi is the kind of guy that kept you on edge...Sid’s the type of person where the stars are not going to go to her head.” (Van, 09:51)
    • “This isn't about Carmi...It’s about empowering everybody around you to be able to do it them fucking selves.” (Charles, 25:43)
• Marcus and Sid Become “Little Carmys”:
  • Even the best can become monsters under pressure, and the finale illustrates how stress can corrupt even nurturing leaders.
    • “The pressure of the star system and the accolades and needing to get the food out on time can turn you into a monster.” (Charles, 11:23)

Family, Support, and Redemption

• Redemption through Family and Community:
  • The series’ ultimate message is about family—chosen and biological—and what communal effort can build.
    • “What made it worth being there is the questions that it answered for all of the people that were involved...that it helped them sometimes find love, answer questions about their life, reconnect with family.” (Van, 06:21)
• Every Character Gets a Moment:
  • The hosts praise the writing for threading in individual victories: Richie’s growth, Tina’s promotion, Marcus's reconciliation, Ibra's triumph, and more.
    • “You knew what each character wanted and they created a moment where you get to see...each and every single one of these characters [have a] win.” (Charles, 15:23)
  • Special mention for Ibra’s final triumph: “A character like Ibra that is almost forgettable in the first season...giving Ibra the moment where he’s the actual person that saves the Bear.” (Charles, 36:55)

Pacing, Tone, and the Final Season

• Season Structure and Risks:
  • Both hosts acknowledge that the season sometimes felt like “a funeral,” and was structured as both a heist and a sports movie—but with the twist that it’s Carmi’s last game, not the restaurant’s.
    • “This is their final game with Carmi.” (Charles, 12:35)
• Meta Commentary on TV & Fandom:
  • The podcast turns inward to examine how cultural attention and expectations shape reception.
    • “This sort of mob mentality that gets people both on something and off something is a double edged sword...” (Van, 29:51)
    • “When you can watch The Bear or Atlanta now...you’re going to appreciate the show more.” (Charles, 27:43)
• Assessment of Series Length:
  • Holmes and Lathan ponder if the show stayed one season too long, but find the finale redeems any pacing issues.
    • “If this season was last season, I do think people would be having a different conversation with it.” (Charles, 19:58)

Romantic Subplots and Relationship Closure

• Sid/Carmi vs. Claire/Carmi:
  • The writers smartly make Sid & Carmi’s platonic love central, not Carmi’s relationship with Claire.
    • “When Sid runs out to hug Carmi, I was like, well, that was the central relationship of the show.” (Charles, 31:32)
    • “I think people wanted this to be a romantic love story. And I think that this was a platonic love story.” (Charles, 31:49)
• Claire’s Minimal Role:
  • The hosts debate the lack of resolution with Claire, but ultimately agree it’s the right choice.
    • “That just kind of...that’s not what saved Karmi. What saved Karmi was walking away from the restaurant.” (Van, 31:05)

Character Growth and Series Legacy

• Richie’s Arc:
  • Richie’s transformation stands out as one of the most substantial on television.
    • “Richie has changed as much as any character on television ever.” (Van, 15:03)
    • From aggravating and defensive to emotionally intelligent and reliable.
• Legacy and Impact:
  • The Bear will be remembered for launching actors and creatively nurturing its young cast.
    • “Not many shows can do that. And not many shows can do that and while landing the plane of their narratives.” (Van, 34:39)
• A Fitting Goodbye:
  • Both hosts find the ending satisfying—truthful to the characters and the story’s emotional core.
    • “You want to feel okay to leave, right?...I legitimately feel okay about leaving this world.” (Van, 34:39)
    • “The Bear—they did it. I don’t care what anybody says. They fucking landed the plane.” (Charles, 35:41)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “To break patterns, you have to break patterns.” (Carmi, via Van, 02:55)
• “Some people are Luke and some people are Obi Wan.” (Van, 05:14)
• “You knew what each character wanted...you get to see...each and every single one of these characters [have a] win.” (Charles, 15:23)
• “Sid’s the type of person where the stars are not going to go to her head.” (Van, 09:51)
• “The Bear will be remembered for launching actors and creatively nurturing its young cast.” (Paraphrase, Van, 34:18–34:39)
• “When Sid runs out to hug Carmi, I was like, well, that was the central relationship of the show.” (Charles, 31:32)
• “I legitimately feel okay about leaving this world.” (Van, 34:39)
• “The Bear—they did it...They landed the plane.” (Charles, 35:41)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Beginning of in-depth discussion & “Did they land the plane?”: 01:19–02:28
• Carmi’s growth and the show’s real theme: 02:36–03:29
• Sid’s moment and re-framing the show as a love story: 03:29–05:05
• Leadership styles, family theme, and character development: 05:15–09:51
• Sid & Marcus facing the Carmi dilemma, pressure of success: 10:40–12:13
• The “final game” and episode structure: 12:14–13:35
• Character arcs and personal victories: 15:03–16:56
• Meta commentary on TV fandom and legacy: 27:43–29:51
• Claire’s unresolved arc, and why it works: 30:15–32:29
• Assessing the ending and feeling “okay to leave”: 34:18–35:41

---

Final Thoughts

Charles and Van close with gratitude for the audience and each other, reflecting on their own journeys with the show and the Prestige TV Podcast. They express that The Bear’s conclusion is both bold and deeply satisfying, succeeding in ways few ensemble dramas manage—landing its narrative, honoring its cast, and delivering an emotionally honest goodbye to its viewers.

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

This summer, FanDuel is the best place to bet on goals, including equalizers.

Uh huh.

Volleys. Yep. Headers. Every goal is worth more on FanDuel, so let there be goals. New customers get 350 in bonus bets guaranteed when you bet $5 for seven days. 21 in present in select states. First online real money wager only. Minimum $5 wager required for seven consecutive days. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See full [e-mail] sportsbook gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MERNET.

This episode is brought to you by Sweetgreen. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies. Sweetgreen's new wraps have got you real ingredients. Zero shortcuts, everything you love in one hand. Think green goddess chicken. Garlic aioli, crumbled bacon, corn salsa. 40 grams of protein made to keep up with whatever comes next. New Sweetgreen wraps hit different order [e-mail].

[Charles Holmes]

Welcome to the Prestige TV podcast. I'm Charles Holmes. He is Van Lathan. Together we're known as the Midnight Boys. And we are back for the series finale culmination of the Bear. It has finally happened. After five seasons, the Beef the Bear has narratively closed. Even if, spoiler alert, the story rolls on. Van they decided to do a big gamble this season. Everybody's like, oh, this reminds me of the Pit. The structure of this is one night in the restaurant. Can they pull it off? Can they work together? And in the back of my mind, I was like, are they gonna land this plane? And I cannot lie. Once episode seven hit, I was like, they did it.

[Van Lathan]

They did it.

[Charles Holmes]

They did it. I was. I was actually. I was getting shows. I'm like, okay, this is why we watch tv. This is why you invest five years of your life. This is why we love these characters. Seeing them finally get to the summit was some. I did not realize that this show could still make me feel the same way that I felt in season one, season two, in terms of just like, what it is to see people achieve their dreams in this way.

[Van Lathan]

And they did something daring. They ended the show with. By taking Carmi out of it.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Carmi had to go find something different. He had to find fulfillment in a different way. He had to leave all of that. You thought that this show was the origin story of Karmi as the best chef in the world. But it was really kind of the origin story of Carmi as a healthy person, which is that journey is kind of just beginning.

[Charles Holmes]

What does he say? To. To break patterns, you have to break patterns?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, to break patterns, you have to break patterns. And, like, not everyone is suited for the amount of stress and amount of strife and strain that comes along with doing the thing that you actually might be great at. Sometimes health is the path of least resistance, and least resistance for him is doing something totally different. Maybe he cooks for his family at some point, maybe he cooks for people in his life at some point. But doing it in the way that he was doing it was just gonna eat him alive. And episode seven showed that from him, showed that he could be a part of a team, but also showed that the healthier place for Carmi is outside of the restaurant.

[Charles Holmes]

I mean, to your point, that was season one where he comes back to the beef and he sees a vision of this place that no one else can. And I think in a lesser show, they would end on episode seven. They would end on the thing finally happened. This man finally achieved his dreams. And instead of that, it does the more difficult naughty thing, which is like, yeah, you can achieve your dreams in real life. There's still something after. And maybe that thing you were chasing and you were achieving is not actually what's going to make you a fully self actualized person. Because what I love about this, and we're gonna jump around a lot, is that scene where he tells Cid that they got two stars. Cid goes back to cooking and the burner, and they shoot it in that same way that we've seen Carmi, where that clicking sound, that igniter sound of the stove represents a certain type of anxiety and the walls closing in. And for the first time in the show, Sid does something that Carmi almost can't, which is she runs out and hugs him. And there's always been that that thing in the show is like, is this a love story? And I'm like, oh, this always was a love story. It was not a romantic love story. But it was Carmi realizing in Sid that actually for me to be my full self, I have to, like, not only step away from this woman, but allow her to take on something, because I can't.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, this is her thing. Yeah, it's like, not really your thing. Like you thought, like, man, some people are Luke and some people are Obi Wan.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You know what I mean? And Obi Wan at one point was Luke. Obi Wan at one point was the person that everybody was getting ready to go out and live his life as a Jedi, then what you realize is the greatest contribution you have might be getting the greatest Jedi of all time ready to go do their thing. It might be giving back. Um, as soon as this show stopped being oriented around Carmi, the depth of the show, and that was by design by the writers, I should say, particularly this season, this. It wasn't oriented around Carmi anymore. And the show got deeper, it got richer, it got fuller, and it got easier to see where they were going and what the purpose of the show was. The purpose of the show was to show, like, what family can build. Like, what. What can be built when you invest into people. We had these sort of examples early on with Carmi being around these chefs. We have this idea of executive chefs being these people who are consumed with this, who can't stop doing it. It's their whole life. Wake up in the morning early to get fish, look at the fish all day. They make a restaurant, they make a.

[Charles Holmes]

I don't like this.

[Van Lathan]

It sucks. All of this stuff. And at some point, the structure that was put into the beef and the discipline that was put into it was going to be the thing that made it worth being there. And that's not what made it worth being there. What made it worth being there is the questions that it answered for all of the people that were involved. The fact that it helped them develop as human beings, that it helped them sometimes find love, answer questions about their life, reconnect with family, like, connect with other people. That's the thing that's gonna keep that entity running for a long time. Not because Carmi is the dopest cook or cause they make the best food in Chicago. And, like, I would have never thought that the bear was going there.

[Charles Holmes]

Same.

[Van Lathan]

I would have never thought that the bear was going there. Maybe it always was, or maybe just something that they learned along the way.

[Charles Holmes]

It was heartbreaking because it was one of the most realistic scenes, which. And it made sense why they had released that long Gary Anda IND Gary Indiana episode, right? When Richie reveals that he's never been on a plane or out of the country. That revealed something to me, not only about him as a character, but what Carmi was returning to. Similar. When his mother was going through his journals of, like, New York and the French Laundry, and seeing him point and be like, I stayed on that boat in Copenhagen, you're realizing that for Carmi, he's returning with all of this knowledge about the world to people who haven't been able to travel that even Sid was like, she hasn't been that well traveled. And I thought that it was so interesting to end on that note of Carmi talking to the leader of that architecture firm and realizing the actual joy was of him creating a family again and giving them the tools and empowering them, that they're the CDCs, they're the head chefs, they can go to the Japan. And I was like, I am glad that they ended up there. I'm glad they didn't do the thing where it was like, carmi does the buzzer beater, he makes the brioche. He's the hottest fucking chef. He has to stay in this kitchen because they can't survive without him. I love the narrative.

[Van Lathan]

Did you think he would change his mind and stay?

[Charles Holmes]

I was so scared. When he's getting emotional talking to that woman in the office, when he's realizing how much that day where they finally all come together and sing, I was like, please don't do. Don't do the last minute. Actually, I need to go back to the bear. But what I also think the reason why I was almost positive that they wouldn't do that is because Carmi is so resolute, not only in his decision, but he keeps going to Sid. That's your two stars. He's like. He is very much like, this is something that you did, which always made me be like, he's saying, I don't need the stars for someone, like, for his journey. If you think about it, he's already been where CID has been at, and it's destroyed him. What sense would it make for us to have watched five seasons of this where he's like, actually, stars are really, really important.

[Van Lathan]

Right, Right, right, right.

[Charles Holmes]

You know what I mean?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Charles Holmes]

Cause also what it proved to me was the reason why the stars can be important for Sid is because when Carmi's like, the difference between you and me is when I get overwhelmed, I yell at everyone around me. You come out here and you let it out by yourself. You don't take it out. I'm like, sid's the type of person where the stars are not going to go to her head.

[Van Lathan]

Right. And she's also the type of person that everybody is going to work freely, better, maybe not perfectly, even the errors are going to be useful. She's gonna trust you more, which means there will probably be more mistakes. But those mistakes are going to be out in the open. They're gonna be useful mistakes because she's gonna be able to correct. Carmi is the kind of guy that kept you on edge so much to where even though he wasn't like the sort of fire breathing dragon that we remember him as now, it's just the intensity that he brought was sometimes suffocating to people, and he didn't let them be their full selves. So he's learning or has learned about himself. And we've also learned that for that particular restaurant, she's the much better leader.

[Charles Holmes]

What was interesting to me about the latter half of this season is they give both Sid and Marcus, who are obviously going to be the inheritors of this thing, with Marcus having one best new chef, Sid being in the paper, getting the two stars, being the head chef. It was very interesting that this season gave them both moments where they became little Carmys, where the structure of this place was like, oh, it's not that Carmi was born, like a megalomaniac fucking, you gotta do this. It's like, no. The pressure of the star system and the accolades and needing to get the food out on time can turn you into a monster.

[Van Lathan]

That's what I tell you. Yeah. Like, he was created that way.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah. And seeing both of them in different ways, seeing how Marcus and Sid, in their own lives and in their own careers, got up to that precipice and

[Van Lathan]

had to be like, ooh, no, too much.

[Charles Holmes]

I got. Cause that, to me, is also true to life where it's like, it's not like you go in one day, you're like, I'm a fully realized person. I'm not gonna be toxic in the workplace. I'm not gonna get it, let it get to me. There's a moment in this season where they're just like, okay, now we have to do it all over again.

[Van Lathan]

Right? Yeah.

[Charles Holmes]

Like, there's a whole, like. I'm like, yeah, you achieved excellence this one night. All right.

[Van Lathan]

Yep.

[Charles Holmes]

Bring it. You gotta bring it again.

[Van Lathan]

I was like, oh, right.

[Charles Holmes]

So they're just at the beginning of something. Walt Carmy is at the end of something.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Did you think that the restaurant would close

[Charles Holmes]

so early on?

[Van Lathan]

I thought that they were getting us ready for the restaurant to close.

[Charles Holmes]

Yes. The first four episodes, it very much felt like a funeral, which is good writing, where I was like this. Because of the structure of the season, I was like, there's Michael Mann in this. There's heist movie in this. But there's also, like, a sports movie analogy where it was like. Like, this is our final game.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Charles Holmes]

But then I was like, oh, no, that almost funeral aspect. In the latter half of the season, I'm like, this is their final game with Carmi. And that's what I realized where there's a moment in the penultimate episode where Carmi drops the. What was the dish?

[Van Lathan]

It was like, the lamb.

[Charles Holmes]

The lamb, yeah, that. That he had created. And it's this moment where he's about to melt down. He's having all these flashbacks to when he was in the kitchen, the mistakes. And they think that it's going to be the critic that's gonna give him the stars. And that was the moment where I was like, oh, this place isn't closing. Because they all like. Richie's like, hey, we got you. Everyone rallies around him, and Carmi has that final moment where he makes the brioche where, like, Luke is like, dog. That's not even the first time I've seen him pulled out something like this. I was like, oh, that was the writers, the creators, Christopher Storr giving Carmi that final moment of like, hey, yo, you won the championship. But this is no longer your team.

[Van Lathan]

Right. It's no longer your team. In that moment, Carmi didn't need correction. He needed care. And that's what the entire restaurant needed. From the beginning, he thought that everybody needed correction, but what they needed was care. They needed somebody to believe in them, to invest in them, to listen to them. And so when he got that, it probably was the time in his life that he appreciated it the most. Right. And then it's just so interesting to go from that. To go from him learning that lesson to him still making the decision to leave. It's a ballsy choice. It's a ballsy choice. Cause the big things that you set up for here are either the restaurant closing, Carmi leaving, or maybe something happening to someone which would have been really cheap had they done that. Right. Sometimes shows do kind of crazy shit. I really think. I really thought that everybody was gonna leave and go their separate ways and be better as people. But what I got in the brilliant seventh episode and then. Or the brilliant penultimate episode and then the last episode, which was kind of like a postlude, almost like an epilogue. What I got was just, like, this deep understanding of how well I know these characters.

[Charles Holmes]

Yep.

[Van Lathan]

But I didn't realize how well I knew them. Like, how well I knew them, how much they've changed. Richie has changed as much as any character on television ever. To see him in a situation where he flying off to go do his thing. He kind of almost got his girl no, he did.

[Charles Holmes]

Cause Jess was right there on the plate. And even that scene where he puts his finger on hers, he goes, I still got her, right? You like? Because I want to ask you this. What was genius about the latter half of the season is you knew what each character wanted and they had created a moment where it's like, we get to see Carmi have his buzzer beater. We get to see Sid get to bring out that dish that she had made back in the first season, the one that I kind of put the beef on back on the map, the Coca Cola short ribs. We got to see Marcus start a reconciliation with his dad. And even someone like Ibrah finally get his moment of just like, oh, Carmen's like, yeah, do it. I thought that was also brilliant where there was all of these balls in the air. And I was like, how are. Like, how are you guys going to land this fucking plane? And to get to the end of the series where it's like, to your point, not only do I know these characters so much, I know what they want and I know how hard they've been fighting for them. I can see that. Like, even with Tina, this season starts with Tina waking up at the storm, being like, this means so much to me. Like, what am I without this? I was like, oh, is her lesson gonna be that she'll be fine as a cdc, she could go anywhere. And it actually being that moment where Sid has to be like, to Carmi, she's got this. We're going to send her dish out there. I was like, oh.

[Van Lathan]

And she got to call the shot. She didn't even know how to do it. She was like sitting down there. It's like, you guys take it. Say, hands, Chef. Like it just like even that, like all of that stuff, watching her come into her own and all of that stuff just. It really, really worked. Yeah, it really, really worked.

[Commercial Announcer]

Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound Tirzepatide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Zepbound is Approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5 or 15mg injection. Zepbound contains Tirzepatide and should not be used with other Tirzepat appetite containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia Syndrome Type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allegiance. Allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor, call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepboundlily.com

Looking to see what's happening around your home? Ring's battery doorbell helps you track packages and see who's at your door in real time. The outdoor Cam plus protects your yard at night with a wide field of view and clearer retinal 2K video. Or upgrade to 4K cameras and doorbells with retinal vision for ultra clear zoom in detail your door, your yard, your home with Ring, it's protected shop cameras, doorbells and [e-mail] now.

[Van Lathan]

Evening buyer's remorse Buy a new car.

[Charles Holmes]

I'll be moving in. Let's get started.

[Commercial Announcer]

Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana.

You what?

Yeah. Great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no, no, no Buyer's remorse More like Buyers rejoice.

[Van Lathan]

I guess I'll let myself out.

[Charles Holmes]

Congratulations. I mean it.

[Commercial Announcer]

Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply.

See our seven day return [e-mail] do

[Van Lathan]

you think that the bear did itself a disservice by maybe going one season too long?

[Charles Holmes]

Yes. What if, like, yes. Where?

[Van Lathan]

What if this season was last season and was the last season?

[Charles Holmes]

If this season was last season, I do think people would be having a different conversation with it. Because. Because your biggest critique about late stage the bear and weirdly, I think the penultimate episode is poking fun at itself. The penultimate episode is very, very meta because they have that annoying couple who's back there. The guy that's like, yes, chef. Yes, chef. Or there's the joke about. I think it's Carmi's mom. Ask our car music. He's like, oh, we have theories. And it was like. I think that what I loved about that episode was it was almost Christopher Storer. I think the bear could get so self serious at points. And the previous season got so self serious, it almost felt like the penultimate episode was Christopher Sor being like, we can have fun again, right? We can laugh again. Not only do I think this would have been better if it had one less season, I will say, with this final season, I don't know how many people are gonna give it a chance where it's like, you do have to stay with this season. Cause it's almost. It is structured more like a movie than it is a season of toast.

[Van Lathan]

And at times, at the beginning of this season, it wasn't always easy to watch. It was like a lot of shit going wrong at all times. A lot of stress and strain on these characters. We haven't even talked about. Harry Lennox comes in and plays Marcus dad. That stuff really worked for me. Yeah, it was very, very meaningful and moving to me.

[Charles Holmes]

He cuts the candle, the caramel's there.

[Van Lathan]

God damn it. It's like, who are you really cooking for? The reason why this matters is. Cause that's something that you do out of love for someone. But for him, he can display his genius and get like. It's just this underlying theme of family continues to be hammered into the bear. And that's what that's enduring for me.

[Charles Holmes]

I mean, even when. Cause at times I was getting a little bit done with the facts of it all. But even when fact did get that moment where Richie and everybody's super fucking nervous, like, God damn. He's talking to. He's telling stories. But then you see, he's charming. He's charming. Who they think is a restaurant critic. I was like, oh, shit. Okay. They have landed the plane on each and every single one of these characters. And what I also think is kind of like a deft piece of writing, and this is what you can do when your show comes back every year, is that plot thread. I remember that plot thread of, like, when Richie makes it snow and there's that guy sitting there, I'm like, that's the critic. That's the star critic. And we did not get it in that season. All we got were the bad reviews, right? And for them to bring up the fact.

[Van Lathan]

I'd forgotten.

[Charles Holmes]

Here's the thing. I knew that instinctually but to your point, I had forgot that that had never paid off. I was just like, oh, I guess he had just written the review.

[Van Lathan]

When they got the bad review, I kind of got confused between the review and the stars.

[Charles Holmes]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

Like, I was like, oh, they got a bad review. Does that mean you don't get your star? But those are two completely different.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah, those are. Those are two completely different things. But to your point, I. Once it, like, pops back and that guy popped on screen, I was like. And he started talking about the snow. I was like, oh. So I went back to that episode, Scallops to Look at. And I was like, oh, I do remember, because this was the episode where Richie's on his fucking game.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Charles Holmes]

You know what I'm saying? And, like, even Carmi's, like, pulling the sandwich and he's, like, cutting it, and he's like, no, we want them all to share it. Marcus makes the hot cocoa. It's every. And, like, even Sid has her moment with the scallop. And I was like, that, to me, is genius writing as well.

[Van Lathan]

But. But not to cut you off, but real quick, that is one of the episodes where you thought you were sure that everything was going to be okay.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

You just knew that everything was going to be okay, and then it wasn't okay. So you thought you had already lost that battle. Right. And then to know that everything was kind of okay the entire time.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I mean, not really, but in a way, you had already made your impression. You had already done this. And the rest of. I don't know. Like, that was really, to me, something that they did really well.

[Charles Holmes]

I mean. But isn't that also true to most artistic endeavors, where if you're in the back. If you're in the back of House, if you're the person who's making the thing, you see all the warts. You see how fucking shitty yesterday was. Today was last week, last month was. But when you're truly doing it for the love and you're on top of the game, the people in the front of House can't tell.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Charles Holmes]

And I was like, that was also interesting where it was like, oh, the real win. And I think this series has always been toggling between, does the recognition matter? Do the stars matter?

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Charles Holmes]

And I think by hiding that and showing when Carmi's reliving that night, he's not thinking of, like, oh, that was the night we got the star. Or we thought this person was there. He was like, no, that's when my team finally gelled Yep. That's when they were the best. And that was probably the moment where he was like, oh, I can actually leave now.

[Van Lathan]

Yep.

[Charles Holmes]

I feel good about leaving because one of the best moments Sid had, and it's such a little moment, is when Carmi's doing his little Carmi shit, and Tina's trying to help him, and he's like, oh, I can just do it faster myself. And she's like, she can do it, Carmi. You're like, oh, she is a better leader.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Charles Holmes]

This isn't about Carmi. This isn't about you scoring all the points. This isn't about showing us how fast you are at plating, how fast you can cut an onion. This is about empowering everybody around you to be able to do it them fucking selves.

[Van Lathan]

When the Bear came out, it was kind of a trendy show. We talked about this in the last episode. It was a trendy show. It was a show that cut through culturally and, man, it could have, like, rested on that. It could have continued to just be a show about beautiful people making beautiful food. Carmi's love story and all of that stuff. We could have done the whole thing. But they did something more daring in the end, and they kind of got away from themselves and some of the celebrity stuff and all of that stuff. But it was just deeply emotional and moving at the end of it, because you were just with someone and you remember. Sometimes it's like almost being, like, with a friend, where you remember, like, how much you have in a tank with them, like, how long you've been with them. I found myself at the end of the show being way more emotionally invested than I thought I was going to be.

[Charles Holmes]

Same.

[Van Lathan]

I wasn't even super looking forward to doing this because we've done these. Me and you have done two shows in total. We've done more than that, but for prestige, we did Atlanta.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And then I feel like we might have done our first time on here. Might have been actually WandaVision. WandaVision. So Wall Division aside. Cause that would have been on the Midnight Boys, had that podcast, if this existed at that time. But us doing this and having done those two shows, specifically this one felt more pertinent to my life right now.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Like, I can understand how everyone feels, and I felt good for them. Atlanta was so avant garde that at times it was just like, what are they? What crazy shit are they gonna cook up? But, man, I'm just happy everybody's okay.

[Charles Holmes]

All right. This show is not the Wire, but it's funny. How when the Wire comes out, it is not. If you're a true TV head, you knew what was happening, but it's not the most popular show. People had their problems with the second season, people had their problems with the last season. But now, not only is it talked about a different way, when you can watch the Vision from front to back, you have a different conversation. And I think when you watch the Bear or Atlanta now in a couple years and you see the full breadth of it, I think people are going to appreciate the show more. You're going to be like, damn, this did reignite Jeremy Allen White. This did introduce us to Iowa debris. This was the start of Lionel, Lionel Boyce as like dramatic actor. You know, I was rewatching some Atlanta episodes recently and I'm like, this is so much more enjoyable outside of the take cycle. Like you appreciate the large swings way more because I think what people, what these shows get to is they start chasing, why isn't this show giving me the same feeling as it did in the first and second season? Why isn't this show the thing that all of my friends are watching? Why are people falling off? And that's what's different about it, where it's like, we're not actually talking about the bear half the time. We're like, well, why is it a binge? Is it really a comedy? Da da da, two, three, four years, who gives a fuck about that binge? Yeah, you know what I mean? And I think it is harder now because less shows. I would not be surprised if third season of something like Widow's Bay, third season of the Pit people start having these conversations because you can only be that show for a season or two before everybody's just like, well, you guys aren't the center of attention anymore. You're not the center of culture anymore. I mean, weirdly, it's what we're talking about with something like Supergirl where it's like, what are these movies now when they're not the center of culture? We're always going to get Spider man, we're always going to get Batman, we're going to get X Men. Are you truly a fan when this thing isn't the epicenter?

[Van Lathan]

This sort of mob mentality that gets people both on something and off something is a double edged sword. It's kind of a thing to where when everyone the group think is just so poundingly evident. Now that's not to say that there weren't certainly things to criticize about the Bear during his run. Yeah, but you know for the people that stuck with it, I think they got a treat. Wanna ask you about one more thing specifically.

[Charles Holmes]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Claire.

[Charles Holmes]

She was at the party.

[Van Lathan]

She was at the party, but they just fucking kicked the ball away from Claire. There was nothing about Claire Bears entire deal that ended up being figured out in this season. Not to me. Like, they kind of abandoned the Claire and Carmi thing, or maybe not. Did you expect some kind of resolution?

[Charles Holmes]

Yes. And the thing I was surprised about is they had been giving us kind of little hints last season about kind of the Richie Jess romance. It was very funny that, like, they showed us way more of that than they did of, like, the romance that took up a fucking entire season.

[Van Lathan]

That was like, the whole. A whole was oriented around it. You thought legitimately that Claire was Carmi's salvation.

[Charles Holmes]

Yes.

[Van Lathan]

That, like, if Karmi could just figure shit out with Claire, that he would become a normal person. And then that just kind of. That's not what saved Karmi would save. Karmi was walking away from the restaurant, but, like, she's just gone.

[Charles Holmes]

I do think it is the right creative choice. And that's nothing against that actress. That's nothing against the Claire plotline. But when Sid runs out to hug Carmi, I was like, well, that. That was the central relationship of the show.

[Van Lathan]

All that. That's what it was.

[Charles Holmes]

And I'm just like, that is the right creative choice. Because I'm just like, once you add Claire to the mix, it gets a little bit muddled.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Charles Holmes]

But I was like. Because there was even this moment where, like, Jeremy Allen White holds IO's face. I'm like, please don't say they kiss.

[Van Lathan]

I thought that was gonna happen, but.

[Charles Holmes]

And I think that there was a reason that. But I was like, oh, to me, that was Christopher Storr being like, you know what? Let me reorient this, because it is a love story. I think people wanted this to be a romantic love story. And I think that this was a platonic love story. This is about someone finding their person in this world and having that connection and then that ability to let go. And where would Clare have fit in this? Cause we also forget this is about one night in the bear. The whole thing about Claire was she was not connected to the bear.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Charles Holmes]

She was connected to Carmi.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Charles Holmes]

Cause even it was funny. Like, I thought that scene between Carmi and Richie in the freezer was phenomenal. Like, getting to see these two brothers come together and heal. That. That could have been a great place for Claire, but it just had been Too much. Yeah. That moment wasn't really about Claire. That moment was. What I think was cool narratively, is I'm like, carmi isn't just telling Richie that you can fly, you can travel. He's saying, you can live. You deserve love. You just don't have to be this surly single father. You can be a person. Especially if I'm not.

[Van Lathan]

It's almost. He was like. He was giving him permission to do it.

[Charles Holmes]

And that's why I loved where it ended, where I was like, Carmi was giving permission to Sid to be like, this is your place now. You serve your food. You lead these people. Same thing with, like, Richie. He's like, hey, yo, Mikey's gone. I might, like, I'm still here. But, like, bro, you're no one's sidekick. Go do what you need to do. And to me, to your point that you brought up earlier, that's when the show got deeper. Like, I was always worried. I'm like, what is a final season gonna look like where, like, Jeremy Allen White is not in the center of the frame? And to me, the salvation of the show was realizing, like, ay, yo, the bear was always. These people were like, look at all these actors. I'm gonna put them in a position where they're gonna become superstars. You really don't know what they have. And to me, that's also the defining thing of the Bear. You could talk as much shit about this show as you want. The amount of talent that they picked and really, truly, like, cultivated, nurtured.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Charles Holmes]

IO was not only front of, like, is not only superstar. She was in front of the camera and behind the camera. Same thing with Lionel. You have all these moments, like, where I'm like, oh, Jeremy Allen was on a successful show for years. I don't think anybody was just like, that's a leading man. Not many shows can do that.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, not many shows can do that at all. And not many shows can do that. And while landing the plane of their narratives, shows that send you off in a way that makes you feel not good about leaving, I think a lot of people get that messed up. It's like, you never feel good about leaving your favorite show or a show that you love, but you do want to feel okay about it. You want to feel okay to leave, right? You want to feel okay to get out of this world and go do something else or experience something else. You want to feel okay. And so a lot of times when shows don't work, at the end, it's because you don't really feel okay leaving. You feel like there are unanswered questions. You feel like the answers that you got didn't make any sense. You feel like the characters acted in ways that didn't line up or align with who they were, and you don't feel okay about it. Like, what is that? Like, what's. Like, I want more. Like, why'd that person die? That's not the way that was supposed to go. I legitimately feel okay about leaving this world.

[Charles Holmes]

Every. Where everyone ended up seemed so true. Where you were just like, to your point, I'm like, I felt this way about the end of something like Atlanta, where you're just like, hey, as long as every character ends at a place where I'm like, it could be tragedy, it could be joy. But this feels true to the show that I've been watching, and it feels true to how many hours I invested with these characters in this family. Hey, bro, like the bear, they did it. I don't care what anybody says. I was just like, yo, they fucking landed the plane.

[Van Lathan]

Is there anybody else that you feel like you wanted to see more? Did you want to see more of the facts? Did you want to see? Is there. Is there anything that was left on the table for you?

[Charles Holmes]

The reason I will say no is because that penultimate episode, number seven hour long episode, did go out of its way to give every single, single person there win. And the one person who didn't get it, Ibrah, got it in the finale

[Van Lathan]

where you were like, oh, that was a great scene.

[Charles Holmes]

Cause also to take a character like Ibra that is almost. I don't want to say almost forgettable in the first season, but not even really part of the main. Main cast, and give him the actual win where, like, Carmi is sitting there with Uncle J and is like, oh, that's fuck, that's a great idea. Like, giving IBRA the moment where he's the actual person that saves the bear. And then Carmi telling everybody at that table, you guys are the actual reason that we keep getting to be able to do this is so smart. Because I'm like, it's also true to life. There's no main characters. And the most talented person is not always the person that's gonna end up saving the day. The person who's saving the day is a lot of time. The one that's like, has their hands in the dirt slinging the fucking sandwiches. Ibrahim was actually the one where I was getting a little choked up. I'm like, fuck, my man Ibrah finally got that shit. Do you remember 2 Richie?

[Van Lathan]

Do you remember the scene, I think it's from season one, maybe two, where Richie and Cid run into each other?

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Remember that scene?

[Charles Holmes]

Wait, was that when. I think that was also the penultimate episode where she accidentally stabs Richie with the knife. Yup.

[Van Lathan]

Right, so think about Richie's response to a mistake and the intensity of that episode and how that mistake, like, shaped like the environment of that scene. And then think about how Richie reacts when Carmi drops the lamb. That is a full character. That's. This guy makes a bad situation worse. He makes a tense situation more tense. This guy might be good at his job. He can defuse a situation, but he's not a good caretaker. Right. Think about the way Richie diffuses a situation in the first episode. They're lining up. Comes out with a gun. You Snyderverse motherfuckers. You know what I mean? By the end, he's using his words, he's using his emotions, he's using his connection to get through it. Like those types of journeys is what makes a good developed television show and makes you remember characters for a long time.

[Charles Holmes]

Man. That's the perfect place to end it. Cause I couldn't agree more. Yo, thank y' all for everyone out there who has been on been at this restaurant with us for what, four years now?

[Van Lathan]

Four years?

[Charles Holmes]

Hell yeah. And you know what? Special, special, special shout out to the producer who has seen us through this all. Literally like what he's been. He's been our Sid. You know what I'm saying?

[Van Lathan]

He's our Sid.

[Charles Holmes]

Yo, shout out Kai Grady for always killing it behind the boards. Hey, yo, the bear did it. Shout out to Prestige TV podcast. Hey, make sure you tap in if you want to hear more Midnight boys. We come out every Wednesday. Tap into higher learning twice a week and y' all will see y' all very soon.

[Commercial Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini in Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses. Setup required. Compatibility and availability varies. 18 plus

uncovered windows can make your home feel up to 20 degrees hotter. Stay cool and save up to 45% off custom window treatments during the 4th of July VIP access sale at blinds.com from outdoor shades to room darkening blinds. Finding the perfect fit is easy. Get free samples, expert design help and professional measure and install services or DIY it with confidence and support every step of the way. Shop up to 45% off site wide right now during the 4th of July VIP access sale at blinds.com.