‘The Pitt’ Season 2, Episode 11: The ICE Episode

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Prestige TV Podcast
Episode: ‘The Pitt’ Season 2, Episode 11: The ICE Episode
Date: March 20, 2026
Hosts: Joanna Robinson & Rob Mahoney

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Episode Overview

The Ringer’s Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney dissect Season 2, Episode 11 of "The Pitt"—an installment famously billed as “The ICE Episode.” This week, the hosts dig deep into the episode’s handling of an ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) storyline, character arcs, and the emotional toll of operating at the tail-end of a traumatic 12-hour shift. They respond to listener feedback, parse character motivations, and highlight both light-hearted moments and the episode’s challenging beats.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Updates & Listener Mail

Timestamps: 01:15–06:01

• Howard’s Surgery Update

  • Howard survives a risky operation, with both hosts expressing relief and noting the show's understated approach:
    • “The operation I think was like the riskiest part... and he made it through.” (Joanna, 01:37)
    • Rob jokes about wheeling Howard for a victory lap post-surgery.

• Geography of The Pitt

  • Joanna and Rob debate the furthest locations shown on the series—park, roof, or the haunted (abandoned) hospital floor—reflecting on how the show expands spatially this season.

• Casting Trivia & Catching Missed Details

  • Dr. Park (“Park the Shark”) was played by Lou Ferrigno Jr., with a side conversation about his TV career and “hulking” presence, which Joanna inadvertedly riffed on without realizing his Hulk heritage.
    • “I accidentally, like, coincidentally described him as hulking.” (Joanna, 04:55)

• Worst Foods to Eat in Bed

  • Listener Lisa submits "Nature Valley granola bar" as the worst bed food, prompting general agreement and further listener contributions, like “full-on crawfish” and “barbecue.”

• Medical Accuracy Opinions

  • Listener Amanda, a healthcare professional, weighs in on the realism of how Langdon monitors Santos post-scandal, emphasizing bureaucratic and HR protocols usually enforced after substance abuse incidents.

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2. Responding to Last Week’s Feedback

Timestamps: 06:30–12:49

• On Robbie’s Blow-up

  • The hosts revisit Robbie’s harshness toward Samira, acknowledging listeners’ points about his projection and emotional baggage.
    • “You can have empathy for that kind of shitty behavior and also hold people accountable… especially with Robbie, because he’s in such a position of authority…” (Joanna, 09:33)

• On Flawed Characters

  • Both hosts agree that the show’s strength lies in its willingness to show doctors being both empathetic and fallible:
    • “We love complicated characters…so I don’t need Robbie to be an angel.” (Joanna, 10:31)

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3. Emotional Toll of the Shift

Timestamps: 12:49–18:23

• Robbie’s Compartmentalization Speech

  • Robbie insists doctors must leave personal baggage outside, but the hosts question if this is sustainable or even realistic:
    • “It’s just not a fully realistic ask. You can endeavor to do it, but…I don’t think it’s ever going to be something you’re successful in doing.” (Rob, 13:50)

• Who Bears Robbie’s Wrath?

  • Discussion on why Robbie seems hardest on the most empathetic doctors (Mohan/Samira and McKay/Cassie):
    • “Maybe that bleeding heart empathy from these particular doctors is something that Robbie is afraid of...or...has caused him pain.” (Joanna, 15:53)

• Robbie’s Flawed Leadership

  • The show’s depiction of his variable supportiveness and fairness is highlighted, especially when juxtaposing reactions to similar situations involving different characters.

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4. Ogilvy’s Humbling & Character Growth

Timestamps: 18:23–20:56

• Ogilvy’s Emotional Development

  • After a mistake with Mr. Green, Ogilvy receives a “necessary humbling” that fosters a more empathetic approach, marking his transition from “gunning” for procedures to treating patients as real people.
    • “All it took is like almost killing your fake surrogate father…and yeah, I’m starting to come around on Ogilvy.” (Rob, 19:39)

• Contrast with Javati

  • Javati’s parallel journey, impacted by her own familial issues, is compared, showing the series’ nuanced handling of how personal history colors professional performance.

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5. The Langdon-Santos Dynamic

Timestamps: 21:06–25:59

• Context

  • Langdon is attempting amends following his return from rehab. His apology to Santos is received as insufficient for the gravity of his previous missteps.
    • “I was mean to you…and if I could go back and do it differently, I would do it differently. And I just found it…woefully insufficient…” (Rob, 23:10)
    • Santos firmly rebuffs Langdon’s apology.

• Power Dynamics & Workplace Policy

  • The conversation exposes failures in how the workplace has managed Langdon’s reintegration, especially in terms of transparency and HR intervention.

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6. Heatstroke Kid, Mel & Becca

Timestamps: 26:36–35:55

• Treatment of Trauma

  • The case of a boy with heatstroke and his mother’s behavioral “red flags” are discussed, with Rob noting the casting serves classic “is she hiding something” TV tropes.

• Mel & Becca’s Fracturing Bond

  • Mel’s emotional unraveling over the changing relationship with her sister Becca, fueled by outside stressors and Becca’s move toward independence, is handled with empathy and realism.
    • “It is something that…you usually see with a parent…and when that kid wants to separate…” (Joanna, 35:55)

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7. Lighter Moments & Callbacks

Timestamps: 31:37–40:50

• Funniest Moments

  • Roberto’s pain med refusal to keep his “game ball” elicits laughter; Donnie’s stoicism gets a callback to his inability to hear babies cry (32:01).
  • Joanna and Rob launch into a sidebar on “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” reboot cancellation, finding kinship in ’90s TV nostalgia.

• Comfort Viewing Anecdotes

  • Rob reveals he fell asleep to “A Few Good Men” in high school daily (“I needed to feel it…I think there is a rhythmic patter that is just very comforting to me.” Rob, 39:43).

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8. The ICE Episode—Handling & Impact

Timestamps: 45:12–53:12

• On-Screen ICE Presence

  • The presence of ICE agents triggers evacuations of both patients and staff. Robbie initially opts for compliance pragmatically, but eventually stands up to the agent in a measured but forceful way:
    • “You need to get out my Ed. You’re costing me patients. You’re costing me nurses…” (Rob, 46:44)

• Show’s Political Tightrope

  • The hosts debate whether the episode’s stance is “both-sides-ing” due to network influence, with Robbie’s posture being more about protecting his domain than overt political posturing.

• Possible Cut Content

  • The ever-masked ICE agent is cited as perhaps allowing the show to dub over or trim dialogue for standards reasons.

• Impact on Care

  • A critical patient (Mrs. Torres) flees, putting her at major health risk—highlighting the real-world consequences of hospital ICE raids and leaving storyline threads for future resolution.

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9. Emotional & Visual Cliffhangers

Timestamps: 53:12–60:13

• Emma’s Stranglehold Scene

  • The episode ends with Emma in a chokehold from a patient, providing a classic “Pit” cliffhanger and upping the sense of precarious burnout at hour 12+.

• Roxy’s Passing—Patient Focus

  • Discussion of the emotional power of Roxy’s death, the uncertainty about her family’s final moments, and praise for “background actors” who add humanity and texture to the show.

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10. Final Thoughts & Listener Prompts

Timestamps: 61:10–end

• Who Goes Home?
  • Speculation on which character will be first/last to exit the shift—Princess, Donnie, and Robbie are key candidates.
  • Call for listener emails on this and on “date readiness” for McKay, whose street team empathy has become a defining trait.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I do love being introduced to an actor, though, only to find that there is an elaborate deep Stan culture around that actor based off of something like 911.” (Rob, 05:02)

• “Just because something can be explained doesn’t mean you’re not being a dick…doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be accountable.” (Rob, 11:40)

• “You have to look at patients as complete people…treating a patient as something more than a case study, right? As something more than a chance to intubate.” (Rob, 20:33)

• “He’s, like, trying and he’s failing. And in some ways…it’s easy with Mel, because Mel adores him…when it comes to the amends part…he is not nailing it. And I think that is, again, great writing.” (Joanna, 23:50)

• “The pit is all about just boxing people. No, they don’t.” (Joanna, 29:00)

• “This is my Ed and you were getting in my way of treating patients. It’s almost more ego than it is principle.” (Rob, 50:15)

• “Good episode of the Pit. I’d rather enjoyed it a lot…And only gonna be more.” (Rob, 60:53)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:15] Start of Content/Howard Update
• [04:55] Lou Ferrigno Jr./Dr. Park Casting
• [06:30] Listener Feedback on Robbie/Samira dynamic
• [12:49] Mental Health/Responsibility in Medicine
• [21:06] Langdon-Santos Apology and Fallout
• [26:36] Heatstroke Kid & Maternal Trauma
• [31:37] Robert Clemente/Baseball Jokes & Funniest Moments
• [39:04] “Elf” Count & Comfort Viewing
• [45:12] Start of ICE Plotline Discussion
• [46:44] Robbie Confronts ICE Agent
• [53:12] Emma in Danger (Stranglehold Cliffhanger)
• [58:07] Background Actors Praised/Roxy Reflection
• [61:10] Endgame, Who Leaves First, Listener Prompts

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Final Notes

• The hosts close with a call for emails regarding predictions and observations for the final hour of the shift.
• They tease a coming episode covering “Love Story,” nodding to the show’s signature mix of unpredictable structure and tonal breadth.

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Tone & Style:
Casual, witty, and conversational, Joanna and Rob balance critical analysis with genuine affection for the show’s messiness and heart, bringing in personal anecdotes, listener voices, and behind-the-scenes tidbits for a dynamic and engaging recap.

Transcript

[Joanna Robinson]

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[Joanna Robinson]

Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[Joanna Robinson]

We are sitting on the correct side of the table this week.

[Rob Mahoney]

I didn't know there was one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Our listeners did and they noticed that we were on the wrong side last week. Here's the most important thing. It's episode 11 of the Pit.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's 5pm Howard made it through surgery.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank God.

[Joanna Robinson]

Howard, if you didn't like if the. If the update from Dana passed you by. Howard made it through surgery. We don't know how post op is going to go, but. But the operation I think was like the riskiest part of this whole thing and he made it through. So I'm thrilled.

[Rob Mahoney]

Personally, I would have loved to defy the reality of the show to just like, let's wheel him down for a victory lap. But I'll take just the declaration that he is doing fine.

[Joanna Robinson]

Howard just gets like pushed one time, one loop around the floor and back into the elevator.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is that not what you do after surgery?

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, well, listen, we did go into the park.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know we did.

[Joanna Robinson]

So we left the premises slightly today.

[Rob Mahoney]

What is the farthest geographically that we have been from the Ed? I think it's probably Robbie on the road.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, Robbie. Yeah, obviously Robbie on the road.

[Rob Mahoney]

But never further than that. Never farther than that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you. Mr. Green would have something to say, but maybe not as would your internal monologue. Yeah, but like Robbie on the bridge, like, headed to work. We've been to the park before. We've been to the roof. I don't know which is further the park or the roof. It's a great question that's gonna require some triangulation that I am incapable of because I don't do math. And then we've been to the floor of the Ed that Whitaker was like, staying squatting in the abandoned floor. Right. The haunted floor. Two more hours left in the shift. According to many, many characters inside of this episode of television.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's really how, you know, couple things

[Joanna Robinson]

we are going to be. We have a second episode this week. We're going to be covering Love Story because Rob promised. I did, and now we're going to have to do it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I willed it, so. So that's how things happen, Joe. You say them on a podcast and yeah, sure, in theory, they could just cut it out.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, but Kai left it in.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just try to perform in a way where it's uncuttable. Like it's so integral to the flow of the podcast, you couldn't possibly trim it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. Can't cut around Rob's jewels. And one of. One of the jewels that he dropped was that we will be covering Love Story the last two episodes. Basically, yes. Penultimate and finale is the plan. So we'll be back at some point later this week with a Love Story check in. Sounds great to me.

[Rob Mahoney]

Better late than never. Is it a normal, fun, functional cadence for that show? No, but we are talking about it here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here we are. It's. It's the 90s. Anything else you want to say about the Prestige feed in general before we get into this episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, for this show, you can always email us at prestigetvpotify.com Dr. Sidebangs gmail.com come find us on social media at prestigetvpod, where the TV prescriptions, Joe, are starting to be doled out.

[Joanna Robinson]

And listen, we're just like slightly losing our minds with props, but giving out great TV advice at the same time.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's true.

[Joanna Robinson]

So we can be all things at once.

[Rob Mahoney]

Find yourself a medical professional, real or fake, who can do both.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly. In the email inbox. Just a couple of things and in the comments that people leave on Spotify and YouTube and on various social media platforms. One thing that we, let's say, missed last week is that Dr. Park, park the shark, who we really enjoyed a lot, was played by Lou Ferrigno Jr. Son of the original TV Hulk, Lou Ferrigno. Uh, I did miss that entirely. And then one of our listeners said in the comments, like, you can really tell that Rob and Joe don't watch network television because I guess he's been on like the rookie, perhaps 91 1, you know, and I'm just sort of like, I've not seen any of these shows that this guy showed up on, but he was great. I accidentally, like, coincidentally described him as hulking.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And everyone's like, was that a joke? It wasn't. It was a coincidence. But here we are.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you regret or are you proud of your hulking word choice?

[Joanna Robinson]

Deeply proud. Deeply proud.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do love being introduced to an actor, though, only to find that there is an elaborate deep Stan culture around that actor based off of something like 911.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, there's just a. There's a world out there for everybody, and I'm not in that one, but I'm happy to have him on the Pit occasional.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was informed by someone when I told them that sort of we skipped this, and they're like, oh, you didn't know about his stint on 911? I didn't fact check this, so I'm about to maybe spread some misinformation, but I believe his role on 911, he was dating, like a bisexual character who was maybe also interested in a woman. And so the people who really wanted a queer relationship on that show, like, he was the villain of that particular storyline, perhaps to a certain sect of the fandom. Anyway, great. Here on the Pit. We hope he returns. I mean, I hope everyone keeps their limbs, but I would like to see him again. Our listener, Lisa wrote in to to note that the worst thing to eat in bed is a Nature Valley granola bar. And I really agree.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a great call.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think she nailed it, honestly.

[Rob Mahoney]

It was a great pick, I have to say. Norman also emailed in and said a full on crawfish, which, I mean, I just can't understand the circumstances that would lead to such a thing. I'm just saying, if your imagination is running wild, there's a barbecue also bad in bed.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know what I mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

We can all make very bad choices to varying degrees. A Nature Valley, specifically Nature Valley Granola bar, feels attainable and also disastrous.

[Joanna Robinson]

The crumbliest of all crumbles, and yet wonderful.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, I do love one, but never in bed.

[Joanna Robinson]

Amanda wrote in, we were. We were sort of asking the medical professionals to weigh in on whether or not they thought that Langdon was being sort of like overly picky with Santos when. When she was just like rolling her eyes constantly. He was trying to quote, unquote, teacher, but was he sort of. We get a Langdon Santos follow up in this episode, which we can talk about but our listener Amanda wrote in to say Langdon is being nitpicking and exacting, but it's entirely by the book. The show may play it out differently, but if they're using reality, Santos is 100% right to be worried about retaliation. Because residencies can be middle school sometimes, and busy urban teaching hospitals provide a lot of Autonomy starting at R2. So having someone questioning her every decision can be hard. But Langda's return would have a ton of rules, and one of those would 100% be specifically about how he acts around Santos. And that includes do everything by the book. He will have to document every interaction and be prepared for every interaction. Be put under a microscope. So you better believe he's being careful around her. I'm not sure that that's true. I mean, I think. I think Amanda is being accurate to her lived experience. But in this case, when we find out inside of this episode episod 11 that only three people know that Langdon stole drugs from the ED. Who are those three people? They would be Robbie for sure. Santos? I would say four, because I think Dana knows and I think Whitaker knows.

[Rob Mahoney]

So what do we think Whitaker knows?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think he knows specifically about the drugs. Right. Because he was being really dicey about the whole, like, Louie situation.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I think the only wiggle room around that is there's clearly a widespread gossipy understanding that Langdon is coming back from, you know, substance abuse. From rehab.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so maybe Whitaker's reaction is just on a substance abuse like note. Although it's so specific and it's coming from the exact source, it would be a hell of a coincidence if that were the case. So I think. I think Whitaker is on the list, whether he's being counted or not. Fair to say.

[Joanna Robinson]

She might say officially, three people know Robbie data. But also my. The only person who's, like, really checked in with me on how I feel about this.

[Rob Mahoney]

And does Dana fully know?

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, he, like, talked to her in the kitchen last season.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Where he's like, robbie thinks I'm doing this. And she's like, are you? I think she knows if.

[Rob Mahoney]

Because if this is the list, doesn't Garcia also know?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, Santos, the list is quite long.

[Rob Mahoney]

I. I don't know. I don't know where the line ends and begins.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dr. Al Hashimi. Clearly, so interesting. Okay, last but not least, sort of in the. Let's catch up on last week. We got a lot of pushback, I would say, on our assessment of the Dr. Robbie Samira interaction. And I Kind of want to drill down on that a little bit because, like, we got a lot of listeners. I'm discarding sort of clips that were circulated on social media because that lacks full context. But some of our listeners were like, hey, I think the reason that Robbie blew up at Samira was because he had his own panic attack last, last season and he was sort of like lashing out as at himself as much as he was lashing out at her. Yeah, I agree. I, I thought we talked about that, but if we did not say that specifically, I, I don't disagree about that. I have a lot of empathy for people who suffer with like depression and anxiety and all that sort of stuff like that. I have like experienced that in my lifetime. I am happily medicated for that now in my life. But like, there have been times in my life where my, my experience of those things has caused me to behave shittily to other people. And I think you can have empathy for that kind of shitty behavior and also hold people accountable for that shitty behavior. And I think especially with Robbie, because he's in such a position of authority that if he. I don't care. I do care, but I also don't care how anxious or self hating he is. If he's using that, those emotions or mischanneling those emotions and lashing out as his at his subordinates, that's not acceptable. I can understand the source of it and not, you know, condone the behavior. And that being said, last but not least, I will just say I don't need to condone the behavior of every single character in this show.

[Rob Mahoney]

I prefer not to.

[Joanna Robinson]

We love complicated characters. We love Carol on Pluribus. Like we love a complicated protagonist. So I don't need Robbie to be an angel like I like. We talk about all the time how we like that characters are often right and wrong inside of the same episode, you know, and inside of this episode, certainly Robbie has moments of grace and moments of once again, shitty behavior. And so I like that about him. I don't need him to be perfect. I wouldn't want him to be perfect. But when he behaves inappropriately, I want to talk about it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, you know, I mean, it's crazy to think that you can both take the wide view of what kind of writing is good for the show, which is Robbie behaving in this way is good. It's good dramatic tension, especially if you take it from the lens of him taking things out on Mohan because of what he himself has experienced and what he hates about himself. The Weakness he perceives in himself makes total sense. Great motivation for that character. That wasn't really the conversation we were having last week because we were talking about the interpersonal workplace connection of these two people. And yeah, just because something can be explained doesn't mean you're not being a dick. Doesn't mean you're not being an asshole in that moment. And most importantly, doesn't mean you shouldn't be accountable for your behavior just because it comes from a place that other people can make sense of.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I think what's interesting about, you know, we talked last week again, we won't get into specifics of what we think is going on with Dr. Al Hashimi because that. We're saving that for like sort of a we were helped by the medical community spoiler, medical diagnosis session. But, like, there's something going on with her and we were questioning whether or not that she should be practicing medicine. You know what I mean? She's spacing out. And we don't, you know, the show has not told us why, but she's spacing out. And so is it responsible to be practicing high level medicine if you're undergoing that? Is it responsible for Robbie to be in charge of all of these people who are learning hard, like a hard profession? Yeah. Under hard emotional circumstances. Is it responsible for him to be working there as well? Is his emotional turmoil, his reluctance to get psychological help, with which his friend, who is a psychiatrist was like, buddy, you need this. You know, I think everyone knows, Dana knows, everybody knows that Robbie needs some psychological help. Abbott knows that he needs some psych. The fact that Robbie is potentially suicidal this season, like, that is interesting to me. His great writing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Should you be in charge of, you know, stressed out, vulnerable, like harried med students in Residents, et cetera, et cetera? I don't know. It's a question of why. Can we.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can we just segue straight into the Ravi Mohan stuff within this episode?

[Joanna Robinson]

We can, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Because I do think part of this conversation is his whole argument to her about compartmentalization.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

You need within these walls to keep all of your personal stuff out. Leave it out there. I think there is truth to that.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, you have to leave parts of yourself outside. Whatever happened to you this morning, whatever you're looking forward to after work, like, yeah, we're humans, we carry that stuff with us all the time. But while you're focusing on a patient, you need to be focused on a patient. That part I can wrap my head around. I can understand. He is not someone who, as you're alluding to Joe, has been very successful in doing that. I think all of us would fail over time, and especially with the level of baggage that these kinds of doctors are carrying. It's just not a fully realistic ask. It's something you can endeavor to do, but I don't think it's ever going to be something you're successful in doing.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think it's something that he does. And, and certainly, you know, oftentimes and, and we get another, yet another McKay Ogilvy interactions out of this episode about empathy being an important part of, of the medical profession and so like your ability to empathize with people. You know, McKay talked to Javati last week about sort of like there are certain barriers you have to put up for your own emotional well being. You know, Dana has a conversation with Mel in the stairwell, a very like, gentle conversation about like, hey, this sounds tough, but get up and go back to work. You know what I mean? Some tough love from Dana, but it's all coming from a, like a different place and a different energy than Robbie is able to offer.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Samira, inside of the situation. And like this, the, the Mohan, like Robbie, it's, it's, it's Samira and it's Cassie as well. Because McKay also gets it from Robbie, I think, unfairly inside of this episode. And like that was true in season one, that those two people specifically seemed to get on Robbie's like, bad side. And I don't think, you know, we've been, I've been asking a question about like gender. I don't think it's just a gendered thing because, you know, there's like, he has some real connection with Javati inside of this episode. He is with Mel, with Mel, with Santa, you know, like, so I think it's when you think about McKay and Mohan, and I think we've had listeners write in about this, like, these are our most empathetic doctors, our doctors most inclined to just sort of like really give their all for a patient to like with with Mohan earlier this season, like, do anything she can do to help her, her patient with diabetes, right, with, with Cassie, go across the street to the park to help this woman who will not come into the evening, you know, be part of the street team, all this sort of stuff like that. And maybe that, that bleeding heart empathy from these particular doctors is something that Robbie is afraid of or something that Robbie understands has caused him pain, his empathy. I don't, I, I haven't fully like, drilled down on it. But I think the show definitely wants us to wonder why these two people, because, like, when he comes down hard on Samir, I hear he's coming down hard on her in this specific case for her lack of oversight of Ogilvy inside of the English teacher Mr. Green case. But we were literally just talking about this last week how he, Giovanni and Ogilvy, same exact level. Giovanni gets shit for the oversight in her case, and Whitaker is not given any shit, even though he is the doctor overseeing her in that situation. Samira comes up, takes responsibility, and gets shit. You know, so, like, you were asking, like, I think a reasonable question, like, well, does Whitaker get a pass? Because this show sort of treats the med students as if they're doctors. But here in this very episode, clearly, Samir is being held accountable for Ogilvy's actions. Yes. And so the fact that he's drilling down on Samira, and then for. For Cassie, for McKay, he's like, did you tell anyone? She did. She told. She asked Samira to cover her patience for her. She didn't tell Robbie. She didn't tell Dana. She was also across the street. Like, she was. I just felt like him coming down on her for that was. And the way he told her that Roxxxy died was almost like. It was not kind. When we've watched McKay, like, give so much to this Roxxxy case this season, that hurt, you know? Like, that was just really tough. So, like, it's these two doctors, very specifically, I think, that have a real talent for getting on Robbie's nerves for some reason, you know?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Because it really isn't about what they've done, right or wrong. To your larger point, I do think. I do think McKay's choice is kind of an impossible one. Like, she has been on Kiki's case for months, she says, trying to get her to come in, trying to get her to receive treatment, trying to just get her to accept help. She finally comes in at what turns out to be, like, the worst possible time, because it ends up being when Roxy passes away. And McKay has been there for that whole family every step of the process. I'm sure would love to have been there in that moment. And because that is something that is, like, an extracurricular endeavor on company time, I do get some of Robby's frustration of, like, like, you just checked out to do this street team stuff while you're on, like, in my Ed on our clock. Everything has already been crazy today. Is this really the best use of our time at the same time. Like if Duke had been across the street.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, I think all of these doctors who care. And it's. I think it's. It's very funny to me that Ogilvy comes back and is like, not receptive to the pitch about the street team. Like, not everyone is a Whitaker.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure, I'll think about that. So what I wrote in my notes, Kiki in the park with Necrosis. An excellent Beatles B side, perhaps if you ever wanted to write the lyrics for that. But, like, please don't.

[Rob Mahoney]

Among the most disgusting things we've seen on the pit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Unfortunately, this is part of the increasing, like, you know, defrosting of Ogilvy. Right. Like, yeah, he, he does not want to be on street team. He is repulsed and uncouth when. A bit. When it comes to training Kiki. Not as uncouth as we've ever seen him, but, like fairly uncouth. But him running across the street and saying, like, I see organ donation in my future. Like, you know, and then, and then his absolute shell shocked response to Mr. Green's coding completely and him starting the episode bragging, like, I want to do another intubation, then it's going to be a record. And then Robbie inside of this trauma situation says, do you want to do it? And Ogilvy just freezes. And then it's Giovanni who does it because he's just like, he gave that guy a book. He became emotionally attached to him and now he's. He's up. He's up with Dr. Shamsi, like in surgery, but not in a gunner kind of way, but in a I'm genuinely concerned about this patient kind of way. And I messed up.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's all we needed. You know, I think the humbling was an important piece of that. And we've seen that in a couple cases throughout the season. But here, treating a patient as something more than a case study, right? As something more than a chance to intubate. All it took is like almost killing your fake surrogate father. And yeah, like, I'm starting to come around on Ogilvy. I think it helps that he is. He's very funny in this episode. Like him going up to Samira about the heart attack situation. Honestly, I did find very funny. Um, and just having him be in places where, yes, he's able to show some empathy, demonstrate some empathy. And he's on an interesting side counterpoint from Javati on this. Like, Javati is almost like too affected by what's going on with Roxy because of her own relationship with her mom, and it's hitting her very hard. And what's going on with Roxy's kids. The fact that the other precocious med student who's also fucking up on cases is kind of doing it for the opposite reason of, like, he's such a. Know it all.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

He.

[Rob Mahoney]

He just assumed that the easiest ca. Easiest explanation for what was going on with Mr. Green must be the thing, because he knows his stuff. He's so plugged in. He's so, like, ready with every answer and comes to realize, like, these are full people walking in and anything could be wrong with them. And it doesn't matter what their medical history is. It doesn't matter what the easiest explanation is. You have to look at them as complete people.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's different. But also, is it same because these are his daddy issues and Victoria is dealing with her mommy issues. And Robbie would say that has no place in the ed. But we're all. We're all that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not in my ed.

[Joanna Robinson]

I do have so much empathy for people going through mental health crises, which Robbie seemingly is. It's harder for me. I mean, this is just a day in the life of Robbie. This is another bad. No good, very bad day for. For Dr. Rubinovitch here. But, like, I did not have a lot of time or space for Langdon last season.

[Rob Mahoney]

How are you feeling about him now?

[Joanna Robinson]

Great. We can talk about it. We'll talk about the Santos thing, but,

[Rob Mahoney]

like, I have to say, am not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I. Well, I know we're on different pages here, but Langdon's trying to get help.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And as someone who is actively trying to get help, he does do, like, a little bit of a pity party that I was not, like, did not want to be invited to at the end of this episode, but, like, he's someone who has had major issues and now he's trying to get better. Yeah. And I have, like, just a lot of space for that kind of story. There's. There's a section of this episode where he is majorly white knighting. Right. Like, he is helping with Becca and Mel. He, like, comes outside, tell Mel. We see him running inside with a child in his arms. You know what I mean? Like, there are these moments of just sort of like, Langdon, what a guy Inside of this episode. Right. And then there's the Santos interaction. And so I. Again, it. It. We love a character who's both right and wrong.

[Rob Mahoney]

We do.

[Joanna Robinson]

Inside of an episode. I know that, like, all season, you haven't had as much space for Langdon as I have, which is fine. Which is absolutely fine. Tell me what rubbed you the wrong way the most about this? I'm assuming the Santos part.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I think a lot of it is the Santos part. And I agree with you. Langdon has had some incredible moments all season. Even within this episode, he's been dishing out his apologies. And you can parse those apologies and you may feel different ways about them. I think the idea that he comes up to her and again, this is one of the people who knows the truth.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's. And he's treating her almost like she doesn't. Like he's apologizing for being an asshole, which he was on her first day. He was an asshole in a way that was like, Would have torpedoed her entire career. Would have been. Had massive professional repercussions.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was a shitty apology.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

He.

[Rob Mahoney]

He doesn't own any of that. He's just like, I was mean to you, and if I could go back and do it differently, I would do it differently. And I just found it, like, for the history of these characters, which, granted, was only one day and a long time ago, woefully insufficient for what he ultimately tried to do to Santos on that day.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't disagree with you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't disagree with you. And that. I think. I think her response is really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

Her turning around, just being like, you know what? No, like, you don't get to pretend like that's a real apology. Yeah. I'm not. I'm not gonna excuse it. I, I, I, like, I kind of like this, though.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do, too.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's, like, trying and he's failing. And in some ways, you know, it's. It's easy with Mel, because Mel adores him. She apparently is on the short list of people don't know the truth about why he was gone. He's. He does a great job with the heatstroke kid. You know, like, he's a talented doctor. Like, all of these things are true. And then when it comes to the amends part a specific, specifically with Santos and Robbie, he is not nailing it. And I think that that is, again, great writing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I think it's wonderful writing. I think setting up this dynamic in this way, which, as you mentioned in the email section, Langdon is her superior and can correct her on all of these medical procedures. But she also knows what happened and in a way holds that over him in a way that kind of, like, completely messes with their power dynamic. And I think part of what has rubbed me the wrong way, even though he says, like, you don't have to accept my apology, but I want to give it. The way he has carried himself throughout this season is as if he is, like, entitled to acceptance.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't, I don't agree because I think for a lot of the season he was sort of like ducking around with his tail between his eyes, you know.

[Rob Mahoney]

But then here he comes up and it's like as soon as he gets the slightest resistance to his apology, it's. But it was so hard for me. My. My wife almost left me. Like, I, I have all these. And I think Santos is absolutely right. Like, this is what happens when you mess up. And I just don't hear a lot. I hear a lot of taking accountability in going to rehab for the substance abuse issues. I don't hear a lot of accountability for the workplace shitstorm that he started to create and has not really been held responsible for in any way.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree with you. I agree with you. And I think that like. But I think he's. I think I just agree with our listeners that are. And, and I think you raised this point towards, like, this all should have been handled before he was allowed back

[Rob Mahoney]

in the ed no doubt.

[Joanna Robinson]

Which is Robbie's note for Dana, and Dana's like, ah, listen, we were short staffed. So like, all of this should have been handled. As our listener Amanda pointed out, there should be like, HR should be involved in any interaction that he has with Santos going forward. In fact, he should be on the night. Like, they should not be on the same shift together. You know, like if. If he's to come back to the ed.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So I guess this is my long term pitch for Pit After Hours. Pit Night Shift. Add Dr. Langton. Is that too much power to have

[Rob Mahoney]

Pit HR, the web series.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dr. Ellis, Dr. Shen, Dr. Abbott, Dr. Langdon on the bad idea, Mateo on the night shift.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do think this is one of the areas that's complicated by not everyone knowing. Right. It's like if this were all out in the open and somehow Langdon still kept his job, I think a lot of those measures would be taken. But how many people forget the fact that Langdon sold drugs? Even know the exact history he has with Santos other than like they got into it in front of other people?

[Joanna Robinson]

I'll be interested to see how Dr. Alhashimi handles knowing the full information.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's been offering him a lot of grace, but she didn't have all the information. So we'll see what happens. Anything else you want to say about he's joke kid. I thought it Was really interesting. A really interesting Joy moment. That Joy was sort of like in the. In a role we usually actually see Santos in, where she was just, like, immediately very suspicious and judgmental of his mom. Robbie has his like, hey, man, you don't know how trauma is gonna manifest. It might manifest like me being near tears all the time inside of my own ad, but, like, you don't know how trauma's gonna manifest. And then this woman tries to walk into traffic, and Dr. Al Hashimi sort of stops her. What do you wanna say about this?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it's a horrifying plotline in a lot of different ways. I, for one, appreciate the quandary that Langdon raises at the end of the day, which is what happens if her son recovers before she has been cleared to leave. What could be an involuntary psych hold. That's just like a quagmire. I love the pit. Digging into. I also think we as TV viewers are conditioned, like Joy, to look at the people who walk in who are acting a particular way and being like, is there something more here? Like, what's the wrinkle to this story? And I say this with all due respect. They cast the exact kind of woman you would cast if this were, like, a weirder, more horrible, even more nefarious plotline than it is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tell me, what about her rings that way to you?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, Katherine Dylan Ortiz, who I think does a phenomenal job in this episode, she just has kind of a haunted look to her in a way that it's like if there was going to be a mom who intentionally or kind of intentionally hurt her kid and came into the pit, like a Munchausen by Proxy plotline or something. I think you would also cast her for it. Okay, I don't know how to parse that. Other than the pit is clearly hand holding us into some degree of skepticism. Like, she's behaving oddly in a way that I think makes your alarms want to go off, even though it is seemingly clear by this episode that it's more just like the trauma associated with the guilt of her circumstances.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know about the casting, though. I will. I will take that in. Consider. Are you, like, a murder podcast person, or do you enjoy, like, True Crime?

[Rob Mahoney]

All right, absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know if you had, like, your profile set up of, like, you know, different kinds of. I think it's just, like, murderers.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, not. Look, not to profile too. Too deliberately, but, like, we love to

[Joanna Robinson]

put people in boxes. This is why you love the Pit, because the Pit is all about just boxing people. No, they don't.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just see like a wispy, far away kind of maybe whitish pale woman. And I'm like, okay, there's like something happening here and I don't know what it is exactly. I'm trying to figure it out. And Joy's trying to figure it out.

[Joanna Robinson]

Were you on Joy's side when she grabbed Perla's wrist to. To take the kid's heart rate? And Perla was so upset about it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, Perla was not on her side.

[Joanna Robinson]

She was like, get the fuck off me. It was really good. I really liked it.

[Rob Mahoney]

That part of it was fascinating though, in terms of the treatment of a boy like Micah, who's the one who comes in with heatstroke. Like this idea of the broslow tape where you don't have the weight necessarily. I think that's just one of those little details that I'm sure if you work in a hospital, you're like, yeah, obviously. And for dummies like us, we're like, oh, this is the most interesting thing I' ever heard.

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[Joanna Robinson]

Did you have a funniest moment of this episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like there were low key, a lot of very funny moments in this episode. I did love the absolute disbelief from our guy Roberto when Whitaker has to explain that he's basically never seen a baseball game anymore or in his life, but certainly isn't watching it now.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know who Roberto Clemente is.

[Rob Mahoney]

So, like, even if you're not from

[Joanna Robinson]

Pittsburgh, I mean, come on, you're.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're sports adjacent enough to have osmosed

[Joanna Robinson]

that Joanna Robinson knows who Roberto Clemente is. Um, mine is also related to our guy Roberto, who will. Who refuses any pain meds because he does not want to lose this game ball that he caught. When he screams. When they like reduce a fraction, he like hollers and Donnie does not flinch. I cackled. It was so good to me. Is that just like his time in the edu or like, is this a callback to him being like, I can't hear babies crying anymore.

[Rob Mahoney]

I didn't even put that together. Joe, that's a great, great your dad, Donnie. I just assumed he's such a. We get so many moments in this episode where he's just being a pro and Emma's like, what is it that Donnie's doing? Should I also be putting on gloves? Like, I just assumed it was that, but it might be the baby crying.

[Joanna Robinson]

Anything else you want to say about. Well, so while we're in the Roberto section, like, Santos and Whitaker are doing this together and then they rope Mel into it and Mel has to like, put the clipboard on the ground to get these, like, squabbling, you know, kids to fill out the paperwork. But Whitaker checking in on Santos. Yeah. And like saying, I have to tell you something. Right. I guessing about like house sitting for Robbie. I would assume earlier in the episode or at a different. Yeah, earlier in the episode, Robbie is asking Mel, do you have anyone to talk to? And while she's in the middle of saying no, actually, I don't. He cuts her off so that he can yell at McKay.

[Rob Mahoney]

I love that both because it is the Exact opposite of the tact you took with Samira Mohan for no reason of, like, can you express a single bit of regard before you move on? But then he also moves on mid sentence anyway.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

So Robbie's just. I mean, he's in a place.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's having a day. It's a lot for Whitaker to, like, see her, know more context about how she's feeling than, like, other people do or care to have. You know, Like, Robbie has talked to her a little bit, but Robbie's been talking to her about Whittaker more than anything else. Right. And, like, Dana hasn't really been checking in. You know, Dana gives her some like, oh, where's the sass? Where's the snapback from you? Like, is this Santos? You know? But Whitaker's like, are you okay? Like, how's it going? What's going on? You know? And I just. I love that relationship, you know, and how we see. And then, like, it makes me reassess. I can't remember if we talked about this at the time, but it really makes me reassess all of Whitaker's edginess around Langdon. Because, like, yes, he knows, but also he has more reason to care. Yes. Because he cares about House. And Trinity is doing, you know, inside of his return completely.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, he seems like just like a naturally pretty, caring person, perhaps to his detriment, perhaps to the point of being pulled in all these different directions at once. We'll see farm benefits. Yeah. I mean, I'm. I'm sure it's coming back to him in some way. And I. I love that you mapped that out with Robbie earlier in terms of him seeing something in Samira that has really cost him in his career potentially, in terms of that empathy. And you have to wonder with Whitaker, too, someone who he has taken under his wing, who he thinks very highly of, who he has tried to ward off of. Not just, like, having boundaries with, you know, Farmhouse. Amy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Amy.

[Rob Mahoney]

But also just like, I think you're. You're caring for people all day, and at some point, you have to care for yourself. Like, it can't be all from here to the street team to Amy and back. Like, at some point, it has to be Whitaker time. And I don't know that our guy is getting that much of it.

[Joanna Robinson]

He seems to enjoy being on the farm.

[Rob Mahoney]

He does.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. Let's talk about Mel King. Tough day for Mel King. Do you feel like the entire reason the deposition storyline exists is to put Mel on edge enough that she. That it would be believable that she would sort of like lose her shit on Becca in this way.

[Rob Mahoney]

I kind of do.

[Joanna Robinson]

If that's it, if that's the reason why we heard all day that she has a deposition and she's worried about it. I don't know that the payoff is worth the. The juice is worth the squeeze there. But like, when she lost her shit on. Because actually, I think I would believe this anyway because, like, when she, when she's like, Becca was lying to me. Her concern about consent, her concern about. And then her checking in on Becca and she's being like, can I have Adam's parents phone numbers? And Becca's like, why? You know, and. And then Becca just like leaves.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, and then for. For Mel to express her fear to Dana where she's just like, I've watched Elf one gazillion times. I've poured everything into my care for this person, expecting that it would be the two of us. And this would be my life outside of work, would be my life with my sister. Right. And she's got a boyfriend. And maybe that's the future that she envisions for herself. And then what is my future if she completely moves on from me? I just, I thought that was really well done. It is something that, like, it's. It's not often done inside of a context like this. You usually see it with like a parent who is. Who has poured everything into a kid. And when that kid wants to separate, as naturally kids want to do often in adolescence or whatever from their parents, they're like, well, what do you mean? I've just like poured so much into you. What do you mean? To put it inside of this different dynamic is, I thought, really interesting and a really interesting payoff from the Becca Mel relationship in season one.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely. Where, yeah, it just seemed like all Elf and cupcakes all the time.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it can't be pasta and pizza.

[Rob Mahoney]

Pasta and pizza. Of course I. I do. I'm very interested in that idea of how do you care for someone to the degree that Mel cares about, cares for and about Becca without treating them like your child?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And it's. It's a really weird thing to do to have to do over a long enough term because the wires get all crossed up. Like people when they are dependent on you, even in a, you know, like an assisted communal living degree, you. It just kind of like hardwires into your brain that you need to have certain responsibilities for them and you start infantilizing them, conscious or not. By like, asking for their boyfriend's parents phone number and even like, hounding the facility for it. I completely get how Mel wound up in this place. And I agree with you that I don't think we need the deposition to do it. Couldn't this day have just been stressful enough? Like, so much of this episode to me is we are reaching the point in the shift where everyone is. It's 5pm there's only one more hour left after this one. As many people will tell you, everyone is running off fumes. Nobody at this point in the day has the, like, emotional capacity to metabolize the things that are happening.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just Donnie. And it's. I think it's really just Donnie. It's honestly because I think he remembered to eat all day.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's the only one who's in regularly hydrating and eating him. Him, Perla, maybe Dana. The only ones who are surviving to this point.

[Joanna Robinson]

No Princess in this episode. Where do you think Princess is? Gone. Is she in radiology?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm terrified, but maybe she is. She's picking up a couple extra running shifts here and there, but everyone else is collapsing and Mel is among them, where she's just like, losing her mind at the idea that her sister would be able to make a decision when it's clear that she's capable of making decisions.

[Joanna Robinson]

And for Langdon to gentle parent Mel in a certain way and just be like, you know, are you her legal guardian? And she's like, no, I have durable power of attorney. And we're doing this thing.

[Rob Mahoney]

He really walked her into that one.

[Joanna Robinson]

He took her gently by the hand and walked her into it. But also, like, him coming in when Mel is like, yelling at becca, being like, Dr. King, step outside. You know, like, I don't. Again, I'm in the Langdon tank. Fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

Joe, do you think there is any movie that you have seen 164 times?

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow, that's a great question. 164.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, per mil.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you. Is there a movie you've seen 164 times?

[Rob Mahoney]

The only one I can think of is I had a period in my high school life where every night to go to sleep, I would put on A Few Good Men. And so it's like, inevitably, I probably have. It depends on what you consider to be a full watch. You know, can we.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm sorry, can we dig into this one?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, let's unpack it.

[Joanna Robinson]

What was it about A Few Good Men that really just sort of like, gave you that sense of security?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's like Is it because

[Joanna Robinson]

you needed someone on that wall?

[Rob Mahoney]

I didn't need someone on that wall. I needed to feel it.

[Joanna Robinson]

You wanted someone on that wall, you needed them on that wall.

[Rob Mahoney]

I never put it together in quite that way, but this is what me and Robbie have in common. We need to really interrogate our shit, like.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, genuinely. What do you think it is about?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, you're a Circuit guy, I'm a Sorkin guy. And so I think there is a rhythmic patter that is just very comforting to me. I think there's also something about, like, that specific style of 90s filmmaking where it's like the kind of, like, orchestral and instrumental scores that come in the exact way that it's shot. Like, it's. It is very comfort viewing. And maybe that's just the era we came from, but it is for me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I know you. I know you like to go to sleep to a movie. You like to wake up to a DVD menu sort of thing. In the era of DVDs, were you ever, like, a TV show to fall asleep to, or was it always movies?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, Buffy for a long time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hell yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, like, have I spent the equivalent amount of 146 viewings of ELF watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Yes, but those are many episodes, obviously. I don't even know what would get close. Like, maybe certain, like, musicals when I was a kid that my sister and I just watched over and over and over again.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, that's the vibe. That's the Mel and Becca vibe.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's true. It's true. While we're talking about Buffy, should we talk about our guy Duke, played by Jeff Kober?

[Rob Mahoney]

We should.

[Joanna Robinson]

By the way, I just think he looks great in this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

He does.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, he's not doing great internally, but, like, the silver curls and the, like, almost, like, piratical, like, mustache. I'm really into it. We get what we expected, though, which is, like, bad news for Duke.

[Rob Mahoney]

Truly shocking.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it's gonna take a couple hours. And so Robbie's like, yeah, guess who's staying beyond his ship. Surprise, surprise. Yeah, guess who's staying for his shift? And Dr. Alhashimi sort of like, asks like, hey, does Dr. Robbie usually leave on time? And Dana's like, sometimes. And I feel like the answer is never.

[Rob Mahoney]

Almost never.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, you know, I'm glad, though, that

[Rob Mahoney]

we had some indication of what that might be. This has been like the metatextual dance all season is how does a 12 hour shift become a 15 hour season if there's not like a Mass casualty event where everyone is working triple overtime.

[Joanna Robinson]

Three people were injured at the water park. Not everyone at the water park. Yeah, exactly.

[Rob Mahoney]

I frankly love the idea within this episode that Dana lays out. This hasn't been a crazy day. The cyber attack has thrown a lot of things for a loop, but it's not that crazy. If Robbie needed to leave, he could leave. Granted, that was before everything flares up with Duke, and he has this, like, personal attachment and investment in seeing it through, which makes complete sense. But so much of this season is going to be about, like, where can Robbie let go? And what is he. What. What is he willing to let go of? And that's clearly a struggle for him.

[Joanna Robinson]

It'll be interesting to watch, like, who goes home? When. You know what I mean? Like, Santos were. Were set up for her to be there very late because she has all of her, like, charts to take care of. But, like, who's the first person to go home, do you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

Who's the first out the door? Who has the healthiest work life balance. That feels like Princess might already be gone. She might have checked out.

[Joanna Robinson]

Where's Princess gone?

[Rob Mahoney]

She seems like she really has her life in order to be, in a way that few characters on this show do. Also, a candidate we should note for who might know the truth about Langdon, because she was the one who stumbled into the Robbie Langdon conversation.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really understand what she was?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think so either.

[Joanna Robinson]

At all. She was just sort of like, Robbie lost his shit. And I didn't really understand why, you

[Rob Mahoney]

know, but she saw Robbie be big mad, and look, she just got her ear to the ground on basically everything.

[Joanna Robinson]

I wouldn't underestimate Princess ever, not once in my life. She's either in radiology or she has taken her winnings and is, like, hit the casino or something like that. I don't know, but I hope she's enjoying herself.

[Rob Mahoney]

I hope so, too.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, Princess first one home does sound pretty right to me as well. Maybe Donnie on the Duke front, though, because you mentioned Buffy Vampire Slayer. Quick pause or skip ahead if you don't care, but Rob and I are huge Buffy Vampire Slayer heads.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, we care.

[Joanna Robinson]

And there's been big Buffy Vampire Slayer news. The reboot has been canceled. You and I had sort of like, near identical reactions to this. What was your reaction, Rob?

[Rob Mahoney]

The way in which it happened, I found quite disappointing. Especially the story from Sarah Michelle Gellar about how one of the executives involved, like, not only is not a fan of the original show, but bragged about never having Finished it.

[Joanna Robinson]

So that's like one phase. And then what hit today? We're recording this on a Wednesday. This morning, both Variety and the Ankler came out with like, sort of like Hulu's response, which is like, a hit job on back at Chloe Zhao. It's Chloe Zhao's fault anyway. Point being, they cannot make it work.

[Rob Mahoney]

I choose to believe it's the executives. I choose to believe there was like a George R.R. martin style conversation at a dinnertable. What do you know about Clem? You know how much I'm gonna give you the test.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know how much do you really know about this show?

[Joanna Robinson]

That's a great. Is that the benchmark? Like, what's the problem?

[Rob Mahoney]

What's the proper currency for a vampire poker game? If you don't know, I don't want to know you.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's kittens, Rob.

[Rob Mahoney]

Of course it is.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think I know. I. I was worried about this no matter what. So I think you and I both were like, maybe this is for the best that it not happen. And, you know, and like people who worked really hard on it, you know, like all of that. That the young actress who thought she was gonna be like the new Slayer, like, all that stuff is really, really tough.

[Rob Mahoney]

Anytime you're trying to capture a tone that is 20, 25 years old is almost impossible to do.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, even if you literally just took the exact writing from a Buffy episode and tried to run it today, it just would not land in the way that it did.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's been our sort of Buffy sidebar. Anything else you wanna say about Buffy or Duke or Robbie in that. In the context of Duke, I mean,

[Rob Mahoney]

sad that Jeff Kober will not be reprising either of his Buffy. I guess neither of them are really reprisable.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's true.

[Rob Mahoney]

But in the Buffy verse, maybe they could have been.

[Joanna Robinson]

So I think a third role for Jeff Cobra would have been in order if the Buffy reboot had gone forward. Okay, let's take a hard pivot to the ICE storyline. It's. Here it is. The long awaited. Do you want to just start with a quick living out with the pit as we head into this ice storyline?

[Rob Mahoney]

Kai, could you please do the honors?

[Joanna Robinson]

Living out with the pit.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's so beautiful.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's gorgeous. Agents Carrera and Russo are here with this poor woman, Pranita, who just wants to let her daughter know what's going on with her Agent Russo specifically, who stays masked the entire episode and is played by the tallest person I've ever seen.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's quite tall.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, I think Peter Claffey of the Night of Seven Kingdoms would look like. Small compared to him. Is this what you. More what you thought an ICE storyline would be? Is this what you wanted? How did you feel about it?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm glad that it came through in a more overt and adversarial way.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

That it was not just like, oh, these Haitian parents got deported, and now we're gonna deal with the after effects. Like, this is in the show's face. It's dealt with overtly within the plot of the episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And as far as the living out goes, Joe, I mean, we get the standard issue, Dana, alerting everybody that no matter your status, of course you're entitled to emergency treatments.

[Joanna Robinson]

They say it twice.

[Rob Mahoney]

They make it very clear. Dr. Bangs is on the beat the whole episode. Like, can't she make a phone call? Can't she do this? Like, trying to connect all the dots? I do think that this episode lived out like no episode of the Pit has ever lived out before. And it's because of one specific thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's that?

[Rob Mahoney]

Robby chews this ICE guy out.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Gives reads in the riot act.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

You need to get out my Ed. You're costing me patients. You're costing me nurses. And in frankly, the most unbelievable turn of events in television history, the ICE guy is like, no problem.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, no problem. But then he, like, manhandles this woman who's got a torn rotator cuff or something like that, and then arrested. Arrests. Jesse got arrested by ice.

[Rob Mahoney]

That happened. Welcome to the resistance, Jesse.

[Joanna Robinson]

Jesse, you were always my favorite.

[Rob Mahoney]

But you're telling me this guy, in that moment would. That would not be. There'd be no pushback in that conversation.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wanted to leave.

[Rob Mahoney]

He did want to leave. You know, he wanted to leave urgently. That part is true.

[Joanna Robinson]

You feel like he would have, like, arrested Robbie for chewing him out.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, there would at least be, like, a fight, you know, at least been a screaming match.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's the way that Robbie is positioned through all of this is so interesting because at first he's really smart. Let's comply. Let's comply. Let's get them out of here. I'm not happy, but let's get them out of here. The fact that people are just, like, pouring out of the. Out of chairs. People are just exiting swiftly.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because ICE is here.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're waiting for five hours in the waiting room, and they're like, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

No. So Roxy has died and she's still in. In the room where she Died. And Monica, who we've been enjoying. Monica, the woman who has, like, come in because she knows where all of the forms are kept.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is like, hey, should we move that body to the viewing room? And Robbie's like, no, we're gonna leave it there. Whatever. And she's like, should we? And then data snaps at her in a very, like, brusque way. Then later, we see that Monica is, like, a little chummy with Officer Russo. Oh, I didn't even notice that. I'm just talking to Mrs. Patterson here. Like, blah, blah, is Monica Maga?

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

And is there some sort of cut scene? Because, like, we get a scene where Dana's like, they rated Joe's. And Greentree. And I did look up Greentree, which is a suburb of Pittsburgh that is kind of like a little bit of a blue dot surrounded by. It's, you know, in a lot of. As are a lot of places in Allegheny county, like, kind of close, but this one has gone Democrat, and then, like, a lot of the places around it have gone Republican. I was just curious why they called out Green Tree specifically. I was sort of like, it's a largely white, seemingly quite like, somewhat affluent Democratic suburb. And so they, like, ice raided a restaurant in this area. She says that Monica's like, oh, I love that place. But I was just wondering. I'm curious. I don't know the answer to this. If there's, like, a cutscene where Monica says something like, pro ice. Or like, damn, you know, and then. Because I was just curious why Dana snapped at her so aggressively, seemingly out of, like, nowhere, when she and Monica have been so chummy, you know, for a few episodes now.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a great point. I don't know why that reaction would track within the course of this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

They haven't really said anything that would have, like, set Dana off to this point.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

So, yeah, I can't really make heads

[Joanna Robinson]

or tails of it, but Monica being, like, he's just, like, leaning across the counter, like, having a Kiki with Monica at the front counter. I'm sort of like Monica lady. But listen, you can't. It can't be all living out with a pit all the time. There's some MAGA ing happening in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. So I also.

[Rob Mahoney]

I like. And I appreciate that executive producer Noah Wylie and Robbie by proxy, is not necessarily the person to deliver it. And I really appreciate where. Where Robbie is positioned in this episode, which is his stance, as you said, is kind of like, let's comply. Let's comply. Let's comply. Let's get through this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And his opposition is not preachy and soapboxy. It's like, this is my Ed and you were getting in my way of treating patients. It's like, it's almost more ego than it is principle.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, that's interesting. But, like, so what we had heard, and I'm sure there will be plenty of articles, interviews done about this. We were recording this, you know, before the episode comes out. So I'm sure there will be, you know, as much as there was buzz about it before it happened, I'm sure there will be Noah Wiley interviews or John Wells interviews or whatever, talking about how they. They want to thread the needle on this. But a lot of the buzz before this episode hit was that they. They were told by the network to slightly both sides this storyline. Do you feel like they did that in any way? I'm not saying they should have. I was just sort of like, do. Do you think Robbie not being like, get the out of my Ed from the very beginning, but, like, opening with, hey, let's just move forward. Is that their version of sort of like kind of both sizing it? Yeah. I don't know. What do you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's probably the closest you're gonna get. I also think you could be right in that things could have been cut or trimmed out to begin with. I also think having one character in a mask the whole time gives you a lot of ability to ADR around an entire plotline if you wanted to.

[Joanna Robinson]

Very true.

[Rob Mahoney]

Many of these conversations could have gone quite differently in the original cut. I have no idea.

[Joanna Robinson]

We know from interviews that they shoot a lot of footage for the pit episodes and then sort of hem it back completely. So, you know, there's plenty of stuff that could have been cut out of this episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, clearly Nurse Jesse is arrested. We don't know if we'll see him for the rest of the season.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's five o'. Clock.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

The lawyer. I mean, now it's six o'. Clock. The lawyers are tied up with the cyber attack. Like, are we gonna see and we're not leaving the ED to go, like, find Jesse?

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

Something I thought was interesting is that Javati filmed it. And Javati, who has a social media presence, Dr. J herself. Right. So is Dr. J gonna post about Dr. Justyce? Ooh, Robin, nice.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nice little pivot for Javati Kai.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can we hear that Jenga one more time, please? Living out with the pig. Dr. Justice.

[Rob Mahoney]

One more dangling thing. I don't know if it'll come back or not. But of all the patients who have fled the ED as a result of ICE being there, we also get mentioned, like some of the staff and nurses, even those with like accepted staff, have fled as well. Just out of, you know, safety, basically. But Mrs. Torres, who Samira is looking after, has like a blood clot in her leg that could be a, like a life changing or life threatening ailment.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, like, what Samira says is like, it's not an issue if we take,

[Rob Mahoney]

you know, if you do it right now.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Super easy to take care of.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because you're here. But I mean, that calf looked crazy.

[Rob Mahoney]

It looked really bad. And if three hours from now Ms. Torres gets like rolled in unconscious, that would be such a bummer. But an understandable, like, after effect of

[Joanna Robinson]

this kind of storyline that leaves us with a cliffhanger, which is Emma and the Gulf Douche. This dude comes in, they had to, the, the EMTs had to sedate him just to like, you know, get. Get him in there. His. I don't know if I want to call him a friend. His. He's a brother. His shitty golfing buddy who doesn't know anything about his life is like, this guy sucks. But we. His golf game certainly sucks.

[Rob Mahoney]

He did the wide eyed, like, nod from Emma as he's talking about what he shot today. Incredible.

[Joanna Robinson]

But I'll be back in a couple hours to, to check in on him, but maybe he won't.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is this guy recognizable to you?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, is he recognizable to you?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, not as an actor. I just mean. Oh, I thought first just in the world of male friendship. Oh, I know so many of these guys. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, tell me more.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, you already alluded to the idea that, like, you spend an incredible amount of time participating in hobbies with people. And some of them, it's like, hey, no, no, no. We know nothing about each other.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is. Okay, so, like, I know that you, like, you play tennis. Do you pick up basketball? Right. So you do like, sportsman, like activities with people you might not know anything about. But if they wound up in the Ed Rahmoney, I would. You would be like, I'll figure out who their family is and I'll wait here with them until their family arrives or something like that. You're not like strolling out of the room. I'll be back in a couple hours maybe. So that's different.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's different. But would I expect them to? I don't. I think I would be surprised if they did.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. I mean, look there's levels. There's the people who you're like actual friends with or friendly with, that's a different thing. But then there's just people who. I see you for an hour or two every week and we have no real relationship. But you're going to come and maybe, you know, bop out for a little bit. Can come back in a few hours. Honestly, that's more than I would expect of a golf pro in these circumstances.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Tough. See, I mean, like, I, I thought you were, had had a like, stronger community inside of your extracurricular activities.

[Rob Mahoney]

Joe. There are circles. There's the strong community and then we're going outward. This, these don't seem like the best of friends.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. If you had like a peripheral. Yeah, okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is a third circle at minimum. Friend.

[Joanna Robinson]

But I kind of like, I, I know that that might be true. Well, I don't know. I don't know. But I don't understand your tennis world. I'm trying to. I feel like I understand your pickup basketball world.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you?

[Joanna Robinson]

No, but like, better. But like, if you're booking, like if you're on a golf course with someone, doesn't that feel like someone you know you're in? You. You have to like book the time on the course together. Right?

[Rob Mahoney]

You do.

[Joanna Robinson]

And like you're in the cart. Like, it just feels like these aren't

[Rob Mahoney]

like two twosomes who got grouped together in a cart, like.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

These are people who actually golf together

[Joanna Robinson]

on a regular basis or like our, you know, business associates or something like that. And the fact that he's like a douche and doesn't give a shit about him. I know anything about him, I believe. But I just think golfing lends itself to a bit more emotional intimacy inside of that space.

[Rob Mahoney]

You would be surprised.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Probably be very surprised.

[Joanna Robinson]

But Emma's in a stranglehold as, as the episode concludes.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, a full on chokehold.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I fully believe that this kind of thing probably does happen from time to time. It felt quite dramatic in a way, like a little, A little overly dramatic.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oftentimes the Pitcliff hangers are.

[Rob Mahoney]

They are. But I thought this one. And maybe it's just because there's like imminent physical violence. It's like, it's very scary what is happening to Emma.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm terrified about it. This was, this was one where it's like, I really need to see the, like what happens in the next episode immediately.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

So from that perspective, effective. But it's also just like, maybe it's just it's at the end of a long pit day and it's like, now people are in fucking chokeholds out here. Like, what is happening?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's six o', clock, Ro.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is six o'. Clock. I do want to talk quickly about Roxy because she does pass in this episode, as we talked about. I like that we don't know if her older son ever got the chance to say goodbye or if he wanted to. I kind of like that that's hanging in the air. I also want to call out Joe Jake Kring. Schreifles did a freelance piece for [e-mail], called the Pit as told by its patients.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, cool.

[Rob Mahoney]

In which he interviewed a bunch of our background actors that we've been praising throughout the season. These patients who've been coming through for, you know, single or three or four episode arcs sometimes. In particular, you know, Brittany Allen, who plays Roxy. Yeah, I liked her interview a lot. She was talking about, I mean, for one, just the exhaustive. And I mean that in multiple senses, level of research that she did to kind of get in the head of somebody who would be dealing with this much pain. But also how being on the pit set, which you mentioned earlier, they shoot so much. There's so much going on. There's so many people buzzing around all the time. Feels to some of these actors who are coming in on guest starring roles, like, overwhelming in and of itself. And so there's something kind of, I think, transportive based on these interviews about parachuting in and trying to tap into this really deep emotional place. And there is so much happening around you that it feels as if you've been, you know, wheeled into an ed.

[Joanna Robinson]

Shabana Aziz, who plays Victoria Giovanni, like, the look she gives Robbie, the silent look she gives Robbie inside of that, you know, when he goes over, puts his hand on Roxy's husband's shoulder and then like, just like, you know, the glisten of the tear in her eyes. She's not full on crying there. She looks so young and just, you know, and Robbie sort of watching in real time someone lose another layer of their innocence, you know, inside of an already tough day for Victoria because she already, like, you know, had this oversight happen and stuff like that. And so it was just like, everyone's having a tough day, man. This Fourth of July sucks.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's not good. But you're right that the glistening work across the board has just been incredible this season. Noah Wylie, too, he's the king of glisten. It's every Conversation. He has. He's on the verge, but. Yeah, Javati's been in that place for a couple episodes now. I think she's done a really wonderful job.

[Joanna Robinson]

Anything else you want to mention?

[Rob Mahoney]

I have one good thing, one bad thing. We talked about the Xylazine wound that Kiki has across the street.

[Joanna Robinson]

The necrosis.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely disgusting. Don't like it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

The second most gnarly thing for me, and this is a regular appearance on the pit, the rib spreader.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

God, do I hate the rib spreader. I understand. It's necessity, right? But every time it comes out, I'm just like, oh, Jesus Christ.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're like, it's not supposed to go that way. We're not supposed to stretch like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, if I really want to dig deep. I think this is part of why sometimes if I see people with, like, very intrusive gauges in their ears.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh.

[Rob Mahoney]

I have, like, a visceral reaction to it. No offense if you were one of

[Joanna Robinson]

these people, but it's like casting aspersions of the furry community. And now also the piercing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, only if you're a basic furry. But if you have gauges, just know if they are a certain size. I am, like, a little upset about the way that your ears contorting. I don't like visible ear holes. I don't like ribs being spread. I don't like any of that stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, what's your good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's go back to Javati for a second.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just an incredible moment from Robby Javati. Why don't you glove up and show Dr. Shamsi that you belong in the ED? Cue fist pump from me on the couch. Let's fucking go.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thanks, dad.

[Rob Mahoney]

Work, work, dad. Showing up. Manual massaging of the heart. Get that thing pumping again. I mean, Javati shows up, and we talked earlier about, you know, Ogilvy freezing in those moments where he is kind of like, I mean, learning human empathy for the first time in this season.

[Joanna Robinson]

What is this?

[Rob Mahoney]

What is this?

[Joanna Robinson]

What is this emotion?

[Rob Mahoney]

His heart grew three sizes in this hour, but Giovanni is the one who picks up all the slack in that conversation. Ogilvy, I do want to give appropriate credit, owns the fact that this was his problem to begin with, but. But it's Giovanni who's, like, helping to

[Joanna Robinson]

save the day and, like, fucking Dr. Shamsi who's like, was this you?

[Rob Mahoney]

Come on.

[Joanna Robinson]

Come on. How unuseful. To put it mildly. Good episode of the Pit. I'd rather enjoyed it a lot.

[Rob Mahoney]

A lot, a lot. And only gonna be more.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'll be very curious to see how people respond to the ice storyline. But I enjoyed it. I mean, I did enjoy it, but I thought it was well done. We'll be back for the final hour of the shift. We will see. Email us drci bangsmail.com if you have a different theory as to who goes home first.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

From the shift. If princess is already gone, what is she doing with her money? Any other prompts you want to give our listeners?

[Rob Mahoney]

In theory, McKay's supposed to be getting ready for a date soon.

[Joanna Robinson]

Nine o'. Clock. I feel like she said nine o'. Clock.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is a nine o' clock date. But, like, she's got to get home. You got to get cleaned up. She's. Who knows what's going on with her kid today.

[Joanna Robinson]

You think that hoodie is not a date hoodie?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, maybe it is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't want to make presumptions. Clearly it worked for him in the first place. He was on board.

[Joanna Robinson]

He loved it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, maybe you just show up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, you show up in the hoodie

[Rob Mahoney]

that chart for three hours, go straight to the date.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly. Exactly. Who's last to leave?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it's probably Robbie. Yeah. He is not. He's not getting on that motorcycle.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would be surprised at this point. Thank you to Kai Grady. Thank you to everyone else here in the Sycamore studios who helped us here today. We will be back with Love story. We'll see you then.

[Rob Mahoney]

Bye. This episode is brought to you by Athletic brewing company. No matter how you do game day, on the couch, in the crowd or manning the snack t, Athletic Brewing fits right in with a full lineup of non alcoholic beer styles. You can enjoy bold flavors all game long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water in the second half. Stock the fridge for tip off with a variety of non alcoholic craft styles. Available at your local grocery store or online at athleticbrewing.com near Beer Fit for all times.