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- [00:01]
A
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- [00:49]
B
Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.
- [00:52]
C
I'm Rob Mahoney.
- [00:53]
B
We're in a new studio, Rob.
- [00:54]
C
We sure are.
- [00:55]
B
Oh, my gosh. We're here to talk about the Pit. Two o', clock, Episode eight. How's everyone doing at two o' clock in the pit?
- [01:02]
C
Honestly, better adjusted than I thought they would be.
- [01:04]
B
Okay. Okay. Not as much chaos as you thought.
- [01:06]
C
Well, there is chaos and there are triplicates and some of them are being used correctly. But there's still time to have like, what am I doing with my career conversations, which I didn't think we'd be having this week.
- [01:16]
B
Can I say that with love and respect to everyone who's doing their best? Fellow tip. Pen usage is demented at the best of times, let alone when you're working on triplicate.
- [01:26]
C
So why the amount of smearing that would be going on on any paperwork, even if it's just a post it at the nurse's station, not to mention,
- [01:33]
B
like, what you get on no. It's a no for me. Okay. If you would like to see our new studio, which we will maybe not always be in, but sometimes be in, you can Watch us on YouTube, on Spotify. Where else can people see our beautiful new studio? Rob Mahoney.
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C
They can see glimmers of our studio. Glimmers on Instagram, @prestigetvp, also on TikTok, prestigetvpod. Are there any other platforms you wanna launch today?
- [01:59]
B
I think that'll do. Okay. Did you like this episode of Television?
- [02:04]
C
I sure did, yeah. I mean, this is the Pit. Being the pit, I think we really ratcheted things up with the chaos of the tech shutdown. Forced doctors to be resourceful in ways that are always exciting. Got some pairings we haven't really seen a lot of this season, and I don't know, it just hit enough of the pit notes, expected and unexpected for me to be completely dialed in. How about you?
- [02:25]
B
I have a theory.
- [02:26]
C
What's that?
- [02:27]
B
A reason you really like this episode.
- [02:29]
C
Yeah.
- [02:29]
B
Is because I get to congratulate you on calling Measle mom as the case against Mel King. I think you did that in episode one, like I think I did from the very beginning. You were always so nice to me. If I call a shot early. You called that so early.
- [02:44]
C
It's very kind of you.
- [02:45]
B
You nailed it. You crushed it.
- [02:47]
C
There is no doubt in my mind that the malpractice suit is measle moment. Like, it has to be her, right?
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B
Oh, my God. Measle Mom.
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C
I. I feel. I feel so sure of it.
- [02:58]
B
How did it feel?
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C
I will feel better when she is on screen.
- [03:02]
B
Okay.
- [03:02]
C
But the measles landed like we are here, you know?
- [03:05]
B
Did you make any kind of noise when that happened?
- [03:07]
C
I did. I did a fist pump on my couch. I did. I was very excited. The alarms were blaring in my head. I mean, what else could it be? You know, the spinal taps. They demand litigation.
- [03:17]
B
Oh, do they?
- [03:18]
C
It turns out.
- [03:18]
B
Okay, Dr. Ellis, we. It turns out we were slightly mistaken. We thought Dr. Ellis was here a double shift. But she said deposition, so she did her deposition.
- [03:27]
C
That was wishful thinking on it.
- [03:28]
B
Really was. It really was. We are going to get to mailbag. I just want to say, in terms of, like, our mailbag, this week we got. We heard from the legal community once again. We've been hearing from them all season. Just once again, they want to reiterate July 4th. Not a good day for a deposition. Probably not happening. And. And one of the lawyers who wrote in said especially not in the afternoon.
- [03:50]
C
Sure.
- [03:50]
B
That, like, Mel would have been in, like, first thing in the morning to sort of do her deposition. So something you think about. What did you make of, like, Dr. Brief. Too brief time with Dr. Ellis inside of this episode. I feel like she should have stayed around to help with the chaos, but I don't know if we'll see her again. What do you. What do you make of her? Her scene here with Mel?
- [04:11]
C
Loved it. I mean, for one, just getting a moment of clarity for Mel of hopefully exactly what she needs to hear.
- [04:17]
B
She's. She's really going through it.
- [04:19]
C
She is.
- [04:21]
B
I picked Mel King as my ideal doctor to see me in the pit. But I don't know if I would pick her today.
- [04:27]
C
It's not her best day.
- [04:28]
B
She's quite distracted.
- [04:29]
C
Not her most confident day. And we even see, I think, later in this episode. I would say, overall, the theme of this entire episode to me is all about patient communication. What are you articulating? And how to Patients. And one of the moments that caught my eye is when Mel alerts this woman who may be going blind in one eye, that what she has going on is sometimes called an eye stroke. And you see like the side eye that Samira Mohan gives Mel in that moment, it's like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, that is a word you do not say in this room at this moment when this woman is kind of freaking out.
- [04:59]
B
It's something that, like, we've seen Giovanni do or Whitaker do, or maybe Santos do. But that's not usually an error, that a blunder that Mel makes. So this is just. She's really going through it today.
- [05:10]
C
She really is. And hopefully after having this conversation with Ellis, maybe some of her fears will be quelled. But it's like from Ellis's perspective, I think she hits all of the important notes, which is, this is a completely needless lawsuit. This is not your fault. You, my, My perfect, sweet summer child did a great job, just like Robbie has told her.
- [05:31]
B
Okay.
- [05:32]
C
I don't know. Mel did not look particularly reassured afterwards. But I guess we'll see where she is next week.
- [05:38]
B
Inside of this episode this is. This is a. This is a friendship test for you, Rob. Inside of this episode lurks something that I would call one of my most feared enemies of my early 20s. Do you care to guess? One of my most hated enemies Inside of this episode.
- [05:54]
C
Is it biting your tongue off?
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B
No.
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C
What would you actually be afraid of in your early 20s? I mean, randomly going blind is pretty terrifying. I don't think that's it for you. What else is really in play that would be so terrifying? Is it that. Is it the going blind?
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B
That's such a nice guess. You understandably, we're thinking about medical cases. The answer is a fax machine. I lived in New York and worked as a temp.
- [06:19]
C
Yeah.
- [06:19]
B
In various, like, high pay, like, fast paced financial offices where I had no business being. In my, like, early 20s, I was completely bewildered and just something that, like the children who work here at the pit and the children out there in the universe don't know. Is that when you were an office temp in like the 80s and 90s, I guess, early aughts, that was me. There was a different fax machine at every single office you went through that had different, like, combinations of. But. So like, if you're afraid to ask for help, if you are bewildered by the fax machine.
- [06:49]
C
Yes.
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B
And afraid to admit that you don't know how to use it. You're just sort of like, is this one. Paper face up, face down. What combo buttons. I was just like, when the fax machine came out and the. And you heard the sound of the fax machine. I like the comedy of the young people in this show, not knowing what it was or that it still existed. Fine. But. But it struck terror in my heart, honestly.
- [07:10]
C
They are terrifying in their way. Every time I have attempted in my then very young age to use a fax machine, ended disastrously. Could not figure it out. Could not make heads or tails. I did think the single most believable moment in the pit, which is quite a believable show most of the time, was the enthusiasm with which Dr. Abbott got to say, that is a fax machine.
- [07:31]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [07:31]
C
He absolutely would. He'd be so psyched to be able to tell young people about a fax machine.
- [07:35]
B
But also Joy saying, the 1900s. Right. Which is something I've heard, like, Gen Alpha say in a way to, like, try to wound
- [07:45]
C
the whole back to the future Titanic.
- [07:47]
B
Yeah.
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C
Not the best written moment in the pit history.
- [07:50]
B
That's okay. But like, Langdon was doing, you know, physical comedy, so that's. That's something for us. All right, mailbag time. DRCBangsmail.com, prestige, tvotify.com if folks want to reach us. Of course, the pit has been very fruitful in terms of listener feedback. Let's start with Christina, who wanted to let us know about Giovanni potentially going into dermatology. And Christina said that, like, in terms of residency, competitiveness, dermatology, along with radiology, ophthalmology, and anesthesia. Shout out. My dad, my uncle are the most competitive because they are the cushiest buying, paying. My uncle used to do Sudoku at work while he was. When he was an anesthesiologist.
- [08:33]
C
So, like, well, you can have your nice career, Andrew. Fourth of July barbecue, too.
- [08:37]
B
That's true. Exactly. So very competitive. And also, you have to start early. So the fact that. That Victoria's dad was like, hey, have you considered dermatology? The person who wrote in about this, Christina was like, that's preposterous. She would have been planning for dermatology for years in advance if that's what she wanted to do.
- [08:55]
C
Well, in pure show construction, like, based on what we know of Javadi's mom in particular, she has been funneled toward medical specialties probably since like, the first time she picked up a rattle. You know, the idea towards surgery. Right. Towards surger surgery specifically for her mom. But the idea that this would be the first Time. Her dad is even broaching the idea of dermatology.
- [09:13]
B
I.
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C
Even for him. I don't believe that to be true. But it's got to happen on shift or else it didn't canonically happen.
- [09:18]
B
Didn't really happen at all. Okay. Our listener Evan wrote in this. This goes back to your question about Dr. Robbie slicing that woman's leg open. Evan wrote in with a. A topical Olympics themed email to say Lindsey Vaughn almost lost her leg. Per the Athletic today, the doctor that saved her leg did the same thing Dr. Robbie did with the woman that unfortunately did lose her leg. Quoting Ms. Vaughn. Quote, he cut open both sides of my leg. Kind of filleted open, so to speak, to let it breathe. I gasped when I read the article. Cheers to the pit. How do you feel about it?
- [09:46]
C
See, I don't think that's exactly what Dr. Robbie did. I think what Robbie did was I'm gonna slice this open to prove my point. Not because this medically needs to happen right now. It's like, look what's inside more than it is an active measure of treatment.
- [09:57]
B
I don't know what it means to make a leg breathe, but to me,
- [10:00]
C
it reminds me of last season. The burn victim Farmer, who Whitaker has now become the surrogate substitute for.
- [10:07]
B
Correct.
- [10:07]
C
He they were slicing into to rel of the internal pressure and swelling. That sounds a lot more like Lindsey Fonn's case to me.
- [10:13]
B
Okay, so you're still out on Robby having sliced this woman's now nonexistent leg.
- [10:18]
C
I'm mixed out on that. I am out on doing elaborate ski jumps on blown ACLs. Don't do that.
- [10:24]
B
I think we all agree on that. About that. All right. Jacob wrote it with a very sensible question, which is this. If Westbridge, which is the hospital that went down earlier, earlier in the day, if Westbridge loses access to their digital system and can't see patients, but the pit loses access voluntarily and can. Does that make sense? The pit can still handle the patients that Westbridge can't take, but both of them have their systems down. Do we understand why that would work?
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C
We don't.
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B
Okay.
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C
The doctors there just, you know, they're soft. They're not built for. They're not ready for this. They're not of this life.
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B
They haven't been through what the pit's been through. All right. Several people wrote in to let. To let us know. In terms of your condiment hoarding habit, perhaps, do you want to call it that?
- [11:07]
C
It's mild. I want to be Very clear about this. It's select condiments only. It's as a needs case basis. Okay.
- [11:15]
B
In the. In the container, the container store special container that you bought to house them. How deep into that container is the pile of condiment packets?
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C
Well, they settle at the bottom. So there. It's necessarily. Necessarily. It's more the little plastic containers than it is the packets. I'm rarely saving a packet because most of what you will find in a packet can be replaced.
- [11:37]
B
A little ramekin of something.
- [11:38]
C
No, no, not a ramekin. Like, again, it's like a little. Like a little dipping sauce container of a packet.
- [11:42]
B
Yeah, sorry, that's what I meant. Like a little plastic. Okay. All right. Anyway, if you don't.
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C
Deeper than it should be is the answer.
- [11:47]
B
But still, if you don't. One can request in delivery, no utensils, no napkins, no condiments. And they just. A bunch of people recommended.
- [11:56]
C
I often do my problem. If I can, you know, if we can just get through it.
- [11:59]
B
Oh, please.
- [12:00]
C
Top to bottom today, please. I will request that for the plastic wear. I don't need it. I'm eating at home. Don't even worry about it. But I do need five sauces, because the same part of me that wants to pack three days worth of extra clothes on every trip also wants to make sure that I am appropriately sauced. So that's how you end up in my situation with my just general deal. Joe, I'm sorry.
- [12:21]
B
You're a very special person.
- [12:22]
C
Thank you.
- [12:23]
B
I want to look at the camera for this one. Tagalog, right?
- [12:26]
C
You did it.
- [12:27]
B
I did it how I pronounced last time. I chose not to go back and listen to it. Here's what I know. I was very nervous to mispronounce tumult, which I might have just mispronounced. I blacked out, did not pronounce a word correctly, Never happened before on a podcast, will never happen again.
- [12:42]
C
Never.
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B
A lot of people had a lot of thoughts about it, so I just thought that I would correct that.
- [12:45]
C
It's an occupational hazard. I'm proud of you.
- [12:47]
B
Thank you so much. And then, last but not least, we got several responses to the email I read about Langdon's recovery.
- [12:56]
C
Oh, we sure did.
- [12:57]
B
Yeah. Yeah. And so something I just want to quote from that, that email that I read last week that I did not include, which is that person wrote, every recovery journey is different. And a lot of people wrote in to say, hey, man, talking about speed running recovery is a deterrent for some people, et cetera, et Cetera. So the point is, there's no, like, one way to do this. Our emailer last week knew that I just did him a disservice by not including that part in. In talking about it. But that's just something I do. I would never want to det from getting the help that they need, obviously. And so that is something I want to say.
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C
I think there are a lot of right paths. There are a lot of right answers. Again, the way Langdon is going about it, not just in the speedrunning, but, like, what it actually means to make amends and apologize to people and, like, the process, I still find a little wonky.
- [13:41]
B
Yeah.
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C
I'm not even out so much as, like, does this guy know what he is trying to accomplish? Because there are times where it doesn't seem to be.
- [13:47]
B
So what do you feel like he was trying to accomplish with Santos inside of this episode?
- [13:51]
C
I think this was, like, breaking the ice a little bit. Right. Santos has been ducking him all day even more aggressively than Robbie. I would. And so this was his opportunity to just, like, get in a room. Like, let's. Let's thaw this out just a little bit. And I think we saw very quickly not only, you know, in that room, there's going to be lots of elephants in it anytime Langdon is involved. We saw earlier this season, Whitaker jump at, like, almost reflexively jump at requesting the meds so that Langdon wouldn't do it.
- [14:18]
B
Right.
- [14:18]
C
That's kind of one thing. And then there's Santos being like, yeah, let's get a. Let's get a blood alcohol level check. Oh, rehab.
- [14:24]
B
Care to guess? Yeah, let me.
- [14:25]
C
You know, that's a good idea. Let's. Let's investigate that. Like, it's clearly so different and so pointed with her, and they just have so much more to resolve.
- [14:32]
B
Absolutely. And, like, I don't begrudge her her resentments. Is she communicating them in the most healthy way possible? No. I understand also that I am very much in the bag for this. Langdon's character archetype, which is someone who's on a recovery arc, you know, not just, like, substance recovery, but someone who's, like, on a character arc that's. That's trending from a problem towards redemption or redemptive arc is actually the more economical way to say that. And so this is. This is my favorite kind of archetype. And so I tend to be very soft and forgiving on those characters because I like. I like watching that story. But for. For folks at home, and we did get some Emails about this who are like, joanna, Langdon is not. Don't let him off the hook so easy. That's what Rob's here for. Rob's here to hold Langdon's feet to the fire, and I'm here to forgive him too. Too readily, too f. And to your
- [15:23]
C
point about seeing this as that sort of arc, the initial steps are almost always some version of this which is a little clumsy. You can see the intent of wanting to do some version of the right thing. And also the ways in which those characters go about it are often wrong or blundering or they're misreading a situation or they're trying to do too much too fast. Like, Langdon is here. And so that's all part of the journey. It's just about the follow through and what he learns from it. And that's, I think, what we haven't necessarily seen from Langdon yet is all of these weird false starts of conversations that people don't want to have. What is he taking away from that other than not this time, but that next time the helicopter shows up? I'm sure it'll work tomorrow, but Robbie
- [16:02]
B
will already be gone.
- [16:03]
C
He will be gone.
- [16:04]
B
Okay, we're already talking about the episode. I told you we were going to start in one place, and then I zagged and made you start with Langdon. But let's. Let's wrap up this sort of like, Langdon Joy Santos section. We got a really great email about this because no matter what, Santos was going to be prickly, to use a word.
- [16:23]
C
As she always is.
- [16:24]
B
As she always is. But when Langdon, if Langdon ever came back, she was gonna be prickly about it, no matter what. He was gonna be feeling sort of like raw and uncomfortable about it. But this idea that, like, both of them are on the back foot because they were both rattled quite recently inside of this day by their superiors. So this is what our listener Tim wrote in to say. Dr. Alhashimi has completely deflated Dr. Santos with one offhand, offhand comment about completing R2 due to slow charting. On the other hand, Dr. Robb inflated Whitaker with confidence with a good catch and double fist bump. Dr. Robbie shook Dr. Langan with three seconds, saying, I don't know if I want you in my er on the rooftop. In the rooftop confidential scene in the same up, pumped up Mel King back with like, you're one of the best, right? So the point of Tim's email was the tremendous impact your Al Hashimis and your Robbies and your Abbotts, these leaders can have. Tim was writing because He's a teacher, and he was just sort of like the way in which you can just sort of like, completely deflate a person who's looking up to you versus inflate them and sort of stuff. So I, like, I want to give Robbie, you know, I was. I. I am quick to be critical of Robbie when he. When I see him being harder on some of his female staff members. But I will say with Santos and with Mel King in recent episodes, like. And this was an excellent Dr. Robbie episode because we'll talk about the Howard case, but, like, this is. That is, like, perfect place for him to shine. Right? But I want to make sure I give him credit for when he does stuff like that. But the idea that both Langdon and Santos were just sort of shook to their core, and then you put them in a room together when they already have a fraught history. Just a recipe for joy to be doing. The looking back and forth, gifable reaction. What do you think?
- [18:13]
C
It's a little combustible, for sure. But look, there's unquestionably truth in the idea of anyone you look up to in any walk of life. Like, the smallest gesture from them can mean a lot. The smallest comment, that's a criticism, can completely tear you down.
- [18:25]
B
Right.
- [18:25]
C
Just a real thing that I think everybody goes through. What's interesting about Robbie is I feel like he is very deliberate about the praise. Right. It's like when good things come up, when Whitaker has a break in the case, when Mel is expressing some doubt, like, he's so thoughtful about how he is expressing affirmation. In those moments when the bad stuff comes, it's like emotional and lashing out. And it's coming from a place of like, I am not dealing with my shit, and thus you must deal with my shit.
- [18:49]
B
I feel dysregulated, so.
- [18:51]
C
Absolutely. And I think Dr. Alashimi is a different case where her comportment with Santos is like, she's saying a lot of the right things, but in the wrong order. And so coming out of the gate with, you don't want to flunk this year and have to repeat it, and then circling back with some of the affirmation that she maybe needed all along. It's like if those exchanges had just happened in a different order, Right. It would feel completely different, but they happened in the way they did. And Santos has been kind of in a tailspin for hours as a result.
- [19:18]
B
You had mentioned me before I watched this episode. You watched it before I did. And you were like, there is a chance to talk about hot doctors once again. So here's a couple things I want to say. Number one, thank you to all of our listeners and strangers on the Internet who got excited about our, like, hot doctor moments from the pit. I do want to do a listener suggestion list, but I don't want to do it this week. Maybe next week, but just. I just want to give people the opportunity to write in. We've been getting suggestions on the TikTok comments and the Instagram comments, you know, drsaibangs gmail.com. but we were going to do, like, a. What's the listener version of this list? The leader right now seems to be season one, Dr. Abbott donating blood while, like, saving lives, you know, at the same time.
- [19:58]
C
Well, you guys in general, absolutely feral for Dr. Abbott, and we support you. I mean, freak responsibly, please. But, man, the response has been overwhelming.
- [20:09]
B
How does one freak irresponsibly?
- [20:10]
C
You don't even want to know.
- [20:11]
B
Okay, great.
- [20:12]
C
Trust me, the information regarding these ships is already out there if you deign to go looking for it.
- [20:17]
B
Okay, you told me that there would be an opportunity to talk about hot doctors once again, contextually, inside of this episode. I assume you were talking about Jackie and Jackie and Dr. Langton. Is that what you wanted to talk about?
- [20:30]
C
Her doctor's fucking hot. I don't know if you heard, although not to also make amendments to your list, but I was curious in the spirit of the things that you put on the list. Dr. Ellis, like, comforting Mel in the way that she did of, like, this is not a conversation. This is a monologue. I mean, it hit a lot of the similar notes. I will say.
- [20:50]
B
I would say the number one. And we don't need to make this a recurring bid, but I would say the number one moment in this episode would be Dana chewing out a cop on the phone.
- [20:56]
C
Oh, sure.
- [20:57]
B
That really did it for me.
- [20:58]
C
The ACAB returned to your body, flooded back.
- [21:01]
B
And on the joy front inside of this storyline with Jackie with a CK and Jackie with Q, what I really loved when Langdon is trying to teach her while Santos is, like, sneering at him when he asked her about, you know, something about tying off a suture or whatever, I believe she repeated the lesson that Donnie had, like, just taught her a couple hours ago. And I just, like, really liked that.
- [21:23]
C
That's a great catch.
- [21:24]
B
Immediate callback. Also, joy rising.
- [21:28]
C
Oh, my God, what a joy episode.
- [21:29]
B
Eidetic memory from Joy. Incredible save the day. You were right to call out. That Whitaker would not be the Guy to get the board. It seems like you got a blurry photo and also a selfie. I don't know how you, like. I understand how one could accidentally take a number of selfies, but the fact that he got the board and then somehow turned, like, flipped the camera to get a. Then get a selfie, I thought it was reversed.
- [21:50]
C
I thought he clearly had been taking a selfie previously, accidentally got a blurry selfie of himself, then got a blurry photo of the board. Accomplish nothing.
- [21:59]
B
Do you think he sent that selfie to his farm wife?
- [22:02]
C
I really hope not.
- [22:02]
B
Okay, tough.
- [22:03]
C
I really hope there isn't, like, a Whittaker thirst trap of him in the break room when no one was in there for the farm wife. Amy. Amy.
- [22:10]
B
It's Amy. Yeah. I guess we don't need to call her farm wife.
- [22:13]
C
I mean, we still can.
- [22:14]
B
Okay. Anything else you want to say about Joy? Joy rising is what I would like to say.
- [22:18]
C
I will say this. We missed this last week, and it was flagged to us by a listener named Steve with the screenshot of, as you know, it's being announced that we're shutting all down the system, all the technology. Everyone is understandably looking panicked and harried down the line. And then you see Joy looking like it's the happiest day of her life somehow. Just, like, the sick Joy on her face.
- [22:38]
B
I love her.
- [22:39]
C
I mean, I'm just. I. I appreciate her more by the episode. I'm so glad she finally had just, like, more to do and more involvement. And this is maybe her best episode yet.
- [22:48]
B
As. As Ogilvy reaches like, new levels of villainy inside of the show. Cartoonish villainy. I really don't think anyone is this terrible of a person, but we can discuss. Let's go back to the very beginning of this episode. The Robbie handoff. The what? Resentment he feels to Dr. Al Hashimi for not being given warning, not being called into that meeting. How did you. You anticipated he would not handle it well. How did you feel like he handled it?
- [23:14]
C
I was actually glad they even had this exchange at all, because this felt like the kind of thing you would get a reaction shot of Robbie and then would stew for three hours, and then they would talk about it. So even the fact that it's out in the Open, by Dr. Robbie's standards, that's a win.
- [23:27]
B
Healthy communication, Rob says.
- [23:29]
C
At least straightforward communication.
- [23:31]
B
I will say later in the episode when she's talking about doing, you know, Brooke and Wendy, who in the. And the sudden onset of blindness that you talked about. She's talking about doing an experimental sort of procedure and he's second guessing her. He of slicing legs open is second guessing her. He's like, there's only room for one cowboy. 2. If my boyfriend Abbott is here, not three.
- [23:53]
C
This town ain't big enough for the two of us.
- [23:55]
B
Exactly. But he gives her a very snide like, whatever, you're patient. I won't be here for the fallout. Which Princess snickers at. She really enjoyed it, but I was just like, robbie, shouldn't you be excited about these experimental procedures? You love this shit.
- [24:12]
C
I mean, it's a huge moment for Dr. Alashimi. Again, she of like, I've never been named in a lawsuit. And she's willing to go to this dramatic length with a real risk of something happening with this blood clot medication in order to best suit the urgency of the moment. And again, it's just like there's so many little things in this episode in terms of how the doctors are responding to their patients that I think work really well or really poorly, depending on how they're framed. Dr. Lashimi somehow pulls together an infographic in real time while all the technology is down. I don't know where that came from, but it's a good way to represent, like, there's a real chance that this either does nothing or you end up worse for it. Or like, you could die just from trying to repair your vision in one eye. And at the same time, she herself is kind of putting herself out there in a way that we know medicinally she doesn't really do something.
- [25:00]
B
I want to. I want to. There's a parallel case that I want to talk about in a second, but I do want to say on the Dr. Alhashimi neurology front, we did get some diagnoses from people and I said in a previous episode that I would save that for last in case people thought those were spoilers. We had a pretty convincing answer, I think, as to what is going on with her. But in case people don't want to know, we're going to touch that last.
- [25:23]
C
Sounds good.
- [25:24]
B
But in terms of this idea of presenting realities of a case to someone, I think that's more. I mean, I think what you're saying is right, but there's also this, like, what are the sort of brutal realities for Howard inside of his case here? And we'll come back to Howard, which seems to be like a real centerpiece case for this episode and perhaps a couple more going forward. But the Jackson Family, I was really struck by. Right. Because, you know, they. They get to have this conversation with. With a woman who. Whose daughter went through what Jackson seems to be going through, which is, like, in your early 20s, an emergence of schizophrenia or bipolar. I have a couple friends with bipolar, and I will say that, like, I. Growing up, I thought, like, a bipolar diagnosis meant, like, you know, you could not function. And that is deeply untrue for. For my friends who are, well, like, on great medication for it. But this. This dose of reality where this woman is talking about her daughter and she says she was studying architecture. Now she's a cashier at Giant Eagle and living at home. And it's struggle, but there's also laughter and love. But I just, like, really love that because she's presenting it as a. Like, this isn't the end of the road for your son. There is, like, a. Like, there is a future for him. There's a future for you as a family. But the fact that, like, he's in law school, like, perhaps that is not. These are the realities of this diagnosis, which is not. It's over, but it's like. But here is the real path going forward, you know, and as someone who is not a doctor and definitely not a mental health professional, if our list. If listeners disagree with that, please let us know. But I just. I thought that that was like, a really. And, you know, that's true for Howard. Here are the realities of what a surgery would look like for you. Here's the reality of what this. This medication, this procedure for the blindness in the eye looks like. Of, like, we have a solution going forward. It's not an easy one. It's not a miracle. Save Roxy. It's not, you know, what are we going to do for Roxy? What can we do for Roxy? And I just thought that that was, like, an interesting refracted storyline across these
- [27:30]
C
various cases, I think, especially with this one with Jackson's parents. And, yeah, Nicole, the woman you're talking about, who's brought in to, like, consult with them.
- [27:36]
B
Right.
- [27:37]
C
Bring something to the table that no one in the pit can, which is, yes, these doctors and these student doctors and these nurses can tell you about care or what happens if it's this diagnosis or that or kind of like broad strokes, what the future might look like.
- [27:49]
B
Right.
- [27:49]
C
What they can't tell you is, like, what does it feel like when this happens to your family? And so having someone who can speak so specifically to that, which is ultimately what they're wondering in that moment, even if they don't fully realize it's what they're wondering in that moment. I thought was just like a great way to kind of proactively answer a lot of their questions and, like, bring something to the table that, like, Javadi is just not going to be able to do.
- [28:10]
B
Bless. No. And like, in, in conjunction with I, you know, something in the Pit. We've talked about this before. The Pit is always trying to educate us on various things as the, as the younger doctors there are being educated. We at home are being educated. And so last week, in the case of Olivia Lana, the sexual assault survivor, what are the outside resources? And similarly, in this episode, when we get a baby Jane Doe update, the guy from peds is like, have you tried cyf? I think is the acronym. Right. So, like, these are like, what can we do here in the hospital? And then who are the people that we can pull in with very specific, you know, a specific kind of resource that helps outside of the diagnosis, the medication, the, you know, procedure, the, etc. Etc.
- [28:59]
C
Completely.
- [29:00]
B
I love the Pit for that. I think it's great.
- [29:02]
C
I mean, it's such a bigger network than I think even a lot of us realize. Oh, definitely. Yeah. The thing that the Pit does well is not even just outside the hospital, but within the hospital. Right. The difference between the ED and PEDs is like, there's a moat there as far as, like, how do we get baby Jane Doe into a room and laying out that, like, she's too healthy to be admitted as, like, a sick baby, but also risks infecting the other babies. But also there's no parent to take her home right now. And so, like, the what do you do with that quagmire? Obviously worth digging into. Sounds like the answer is she's just
- [29:31]
B
going to hang out for a while the entire season.
- [29:33]
C
Seems like.
- [29:34]
D
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- [30:34]
B
of, like, what I told you I wrote in my notes. Panic at the discharge. Like, we've got joy crushing it. Antoine and Larry trying, Trying to rise to the occasion, trying their best. But I love this for them. Like, these are. These are Antoine and Larry. The, like, med techs have been around in the background both seasons. And here's like, a moment for them to just sort of like, be a bit more front and center. I love how annoyed Jesse specifically is with them. And just I looked up how old the actor played. Jesse is 47. So I feel like he is someone who could have, you know, like, you've got Abbott and Al Hashimi and Robbie and Dana who are all like, like, we used to do this with paper. We know how to do this. And I think Jesse is in that demo as well.
- [31:16]
C
Absolutely.
- [31:17]
B
Let's get it together, guys. Of the. Of the, like, here's how we're gonna handle this. And there's a lot that, like, this form goes here and these clipboards go here. That, like, like most medical jargon on the show, I'm just gonna let wash over me. It's not my job to know what the abbreviation for psych is or whatever it is on the board.
- [31:33]
C
The fourth clipboard rack, I simply couldn't tell.
- [31:36]
B
You cannot. When they were asking about the medication. And Robbie's like, megan Nord, clinical pharmacist, and she's like, we got you like a real, like, Captain America, we got your back moment. That was bizarre.
- [31:51]
C
A goofy ass moment, even for the pit.
- [31:53]
B
I agree.
- [31:55]
C
Why is she off in the distance? Like, can she not get a medium shot? You know, it's like every time they talk to her, she's across the room for some reason.
- [32:05]
B
Really good. Princess panicking. Princess being put in charge because Dan is stuck in the room.
- [32:10]
C
Right.
- [32:10]
B
And Prince is like, I did not ask for this.
- [32:12]
C
No one wants Princess to be the charge nurse less than Princess.
- [32:15]
B
Absolutely.
- [32:16]
C
And we support her.
- [32:18]
B
Our listener, Jennifer, who works at emergency management for an undisclosed city, was talking about the realities of planning for cybersecurity and how oftentimes that. That, you know, this is an increasing part of emergency management planning, which is not something I really fully understood exists. What Jennifer says in her laments in her email. Nobody knows that my job exists, but that most of the cybersecurity incidents are about sort of the tech side of it. And not this analog side of it. So she said that she. Like she said, last December, we did a cyber security focused drill in our emergency operations center with a similar premise. I was the one pulling out whiteboards and reminding folks that they could still use offline versions of things like Word and save them on an individual computer. This is our first time really trying that type of scenario. And the younger folks, who are very technology dependent, were definitely lost. This is a highly realistic gap for them to be covering on the show. And I love seeing it. So I like. I'm just. I love the idea of, like, across the country, drills like this are being run.
- [33:17]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [33:17]
B
And the generational divide is just, like, widening like crazy.
- [33:21]
C
We hear from so many medical professionals who have been through cyber attacks at their hospitals, who are actively going through them right now as the show is going on. It's, like, insane that this is just, like, a fact of life in this line of work. And also, we should say, like, in particular, we don't know the source of all this, the origin. Maybe we'll never know. Maybe it's not really relevant to the show. But the, like, ransomware attacks on hospitals, just, like, fucking diabolical scum of the earth shit.
- [33:45]
B
Absolutely.
- [33:47]
C
Even if the only result is that the hospital becomes less efficient that day, that will cause people to die. That will have, like, massive repercussions. So, like, just really gross.
- [33:56]
B
Absolutely. How did you feel about the way in which the sort of Santos Al Hashimi AI check in was handled inside of this episode?
- [34:06]
C
I like that Alashimi is not just, like, caught off guard that she's one of the people who understands how to go to an analog system like that. Adaptability, I think, is important. Otherwise, she's just a spokesperson for AI.
- [34:17]
B
Right.
- [34:17]
C
So Santos gets her barb in. Alashemi has to eat shit a little bit.
- [34:21]
B
Right. And then Robbie smirks.
- [34:22]
C
Yeah, Robbie smirks. Everyone gets their moment. And now let me tell you about this weird pronged clipboard system in which you either pick from these cartoons or those cartoons.
- [34:30]
B
Yeah, yeah. Makes sense. All right, let's talk about Howard. So Craig Shaneck is the actor who is playing Howard here.
- [34:37]
C
I thought he was great, too.
- [34:38]
B
I thought he was so good. Yeah. I've got two actors to call out in this episode, and he's one of them. And, like, I just thought this was, like, incredibly well done, with the exception of, again, I think Ogilvy is being asked to be just demented levels of nasty.
- [34:54]
C
Yeah. You know, well, walk me through that, because I thought this Episode gave him a slightly different kind of COVID if that makes sense. He just seems so oblivious to the effects that his words have on other people and, like, how blunt he's being in a way that some people are.
- [35:10]
B
Right.
- [35:10]
C
Like, there's a reasonable explanation for these things in some cases. And it's like him bringing up the zoo is not intended to be like a shot at Howard. It's like, oh, I read about this, and I thought it was important to this conversation. The fact that he's almost naive is the wrong word, but doesn't understand how blunt he's being, I think puts him in a slightly different space than maybe like, fuck, Louis, that guy's an alcoholic, and he died, I guess.
- [35:36]
B
But as you highlighted before, there's this weird contradiction inside of his character where sometimes he has social awareness and social skills. Sometimes when it comes to the caretaking of more vulnerable patients, he's just, like, vicious.
- [35:52]
C
Oh, for sure.
- [35:53]
B
I did think it was interesting to have Dr. McKay involved in this case, because last season, Dr. Collins sort of called out Dr. McKay about some, you know, unexamined fatphobia inside of her treatment of a patient. So for McKay to be the one sort of like taking that lesson and passing it on to Ogilvy, I thought was, like a good thread across seasons. But I. I just. I think this performance is incredible. Obviously, fatphobia is a thing that exists inside of the medical world. It's. It's a. It's a really important thing to talk about. Even Garcia is like, this sidebar conversations that they're having.
- [36:25]
C
Yeah.
- [36:26]
B
Like, Garcia, who's one of the, like, most blunt people, is like, treating this conversation with sensitivity, which I. I thought was really, really interesting.
- [36:37]
C
I think that part of it with Ogilvy is so important too. It's like literally every doctor in the room is saying, you can't do this, regardless of what you're aware of or not. Like, you can't do it. It's just like point blank, it's not acceptable. And so that. Then it is a learning moment, I think, for Ogilvy week and hope. But yeah, you're right. Even Garcia's. The frank truths of the almost 5050 proposition of what surgery would mean.
- [37:02]
B
Exactly.
- [37:03]
C
And kind of going beat by beat through this episode with Howard, and most of these doctors who are in this room are spending almost the whole episode with him. That's like an incredible amount of focus from what we usually see on the
- [37:12]
B
pit and the roster of who's in the room completely. It has Robbie's focus for almost the entire episode.
- [37:17]
C
And it's all about, like, what is different about Howard's circumstances and how he got here is a crucial part of that formula. And him laying out, like, this wasn't a thing that happened overnight. Like, this. This is a. This is a life story that brings you into this room on these terms. And then how that affects. Like, he can't flip over like a normal patient, and that creates risk. Right. Like, he can't go into their CT machine. That creates complications. And so they're just constantly having to come up with workarounds. And I think what I'm most interested in is the way that Howard and that actor plays that. It's almost like he has tears in his eyes the whole episode.
- [37:50]
B
Oh, yeah, because of the shame.
- [37:51]
C
That's what I'm saying. It's not just the pain, but he's constantly apologizing and embarrassed and the shame of that.
- [37:55]
B
And we've talked about this before, how the Pit has done a really good job with this examination of shame and how it can keep people from getting the help that they need in the first place and how people wind up. Up in the ED because they've let it go to a certain point because of the shame. And so for, again, this performance of this constant apologizing and, you know, just like, you know, and then again, Dr. Robbie's best version of his bedside manner coming through and his, like, reassurance and, like, this is what we do. We got you. You know, we can handle it. Abbott being like, let's go. Like, we're gonna go on a road trip. Like, you know, I just think that I. I'm. I'm really interested to see how this. This case develops.
- [38:39]
C
At the risk of being glib about the road trip, Howard is a natural with the speak and spell iPad situation, like, on it, cracking jokes, doing the whole thing. Why is there a road trip button on the iPad?
- [38:51]
B
Here's my question, okay? In all caps in my notes, it says, excuse me, where was this machine for Harlow?
- [38:57]
C
I had the exact same thought.
- [38:59]
B
I lost my. Here's the thing. I understand what the pit is trying to do with Harlow, and I saw some, like, there's been some really good content going around of people who have experienced what Harlow has experienced inside of various institutions. And so they're highlighting a real problem and a real flaw in the system. And I think that that is important. I think it's tough to have in the same episode the resolution of the Harlow case next to the very device that could have saved her literal hours Inside of the ed, I'm. I'm baffled by this, honestly.
- [39:33]
C
It's not ideal. It's not the most respectful. And if the Pitt had wanted to engage with, like, Harlow is clearly fluent in asl, but, like, the reading and writing would be difficult for whatever reason. Like, that's something that we've gotten lots of emails about, lots of comments about, like, that you can't just assume clear translation from ASL to English. They're not. It's not the same thing in any capacity. That's not what the show is doing.
- [39:53]
B
Right.
- [39:53]
C
Clearly, she's able to read Santos note. And so one of two things needed to happen. Santos needed to sit in the room and actually write down back and forth with Harlow what's happening, or bust out the iPad, which could have saved this woman so much time and so much pain.
- [40:08]
B
That being said, how called out did you feel? I mean, I know you've got excellent posture, but how called out did you feel by. Oh, no, this is how I use my laptop as I work from home, and I'm on the laptop all the time and my head's constantly bowed down. And this is an issue for me. How did you feel about that?
- [40:28]
C
I am not prepared to answer the question of how many hours are you at your laptop at this time?
- [40:33]
B
Okay, um, here's my question. Where do we get one of those trigger point injections?
- [40:38]
C
Would love it.
- [40:39]
B
Yeah.
- [40:39]
C
Can we just get a guy? Someone in the Spotify offices is when you walk in every day, shoot me up.
- [40:44]
B
But apparently, I mean, apparently it, like, the. The effects will last months.
- [40:51]
C
Amazing.
- [40:52]
B
Great. Give us, like, a quarterly injection in the trigger point to help us with our tech neck. I would appreciate it.
- [40:58]
C
Seriously. Can we talk about Roxy?
- [41:00]
B
I was just about to say this is the other actor I want to call out.
- [41:03]
C
Yeah. I mean, a plotline that's just been returning and returning and returning keeps paying off in all kinds of ways. I think one of the moments in this episode that really and truly broke me. I cried is the way that Shabana Aziz delivers when they're talking about who's getting ice cream and who's allowed to have ice cream. The question of, like, is Roxy allowed to have ice cream? She can have anything she wants. And it's like, again, just like, the look on Shabana Aziz's face as Javati in this moment is like, my stomach just dropped completely as she said it. And. And she exchanged, like, the briefest look with Roxy afterwards. And I think one of the reasons this worked for me is the pit works so well as drama, because every time they walk into a room, some people usually know what's going on and some people don't. And usually it's the doctors and the nurses are like, we know what this is. Immediately. We've gotta treat it. We've gotta jump into action. The patients are constantly asking questions. This is one of those cases where, like, Roxy knows and everyone else in her family either doesn't know or doesn't want to accept it. And the way that that kind of positions her with the doctors, I just find to be like, one of the richest storylines of this season.
- [42:06]
B
I both really agree and also with a side of slight disagreement, which is. Another actor I want to call out is John Getz, who is playing her father, Lloyd. And this is just an actor who I have seen in a million things. It's in Social Network, Zodiac, Blood Simple, Don't Tell mom the Babysitter's Dead, which I've seen 1 million times. This is a Bay Area. He's like a San Francisco Bay Area character actor, like, legend, right? So he shows up and I'm like, oh, shit. Right? Like, this is. This is a casting spoiler for me. And, like, just so, just even inside this episode, the looks that he exchanges with her, I'm going to cry now. There's like one look that they exchange, and then when he. When. When they say they're going to take the kids for ice cream, there's a shot. You don't even see his face. You just see Roxy looking at him and he. And they just exchange a look for a while and it's just sort of like, I. I know. And like, the devastation. I. I burst into tears. The devastation of, you know, watching your child. You know, there was like. I've been feeling quite emotional about this plot line with the kids in the first place. And especially the 15 year old, like, especially the 15 year old, it's been like, really. He's like, I don't want to go for ice cream. Like, I don't, you know, so, like, he knows something's up for sure. He doesn't have all the information. But her. Your dad really felt like he knows exactly what this is, which is goodbye. And that just, like, it really hurt my feelings. It was really, really, really tough. Yeah.
- [43:34]
C
And it's just like such a slightly different frame of something we have seen on the pit, right, which is we've seen parents say goodbye to their. Their teenage children of like, they had their whole life ahead of them. And that's a very particular kind of Grief and, I mean.
- [43:45]
B
Or like, even younger children.
- [43:47]
C
For sure.
- [43:47]
B
Absolutely.
- [43:48]
C
Younger children. You know, like. Like young kids and babies, even in some instances. And here it's like, it hits. It's not even, like, harder or anything like that. It just hits in a different way when it's like Roxy is supposed to have kind of her life on course. Right. Like, she has her family, she has her life, she has her kids. Now it's just like the living and even that is being kind of robbed from her.
- [44:09]
B
I'm not supposed to outlive things. I know. Yeah. The doctrine of double effect which Robbie brings up when McKay and Victoria are asking about this essence ethical principle of palliative care. Once again, this is a. The more, you know, moment from the pit. But, like, I did not know about this, and I thought it was like, really. And, you know, and again, this is like a really good Robbie episode. Like, the way that Noah Wiley delivers this information, this idea of, like, we are going to treat the pain. Yeah. And if in treating the pain, the patient dies, he says, like, sometimes that's the best thing that could happen. Right. I just. I. I think this storyline is, you know, this is like, what are you. Third episode with Roxy? Something like that?
- [44:49]
C
I think so.
- [44:50]
B
The storyline is being, like, parceled out in a really impactful, important way. And again, really like, a real education for people at home. Any thoughts you have on this?
- [45:01]
C
I think especially for the contrast with almost everything else that comes through the ed, which is most of the cases, if they're, like, really critical cases, it's how do we keep this person alive? And just even the introduction of the idea that there are things that are worse than death.
- [45:15]
B
Right.
- [45:15]
C
Like, there are outcomes here that are worse and more painful for everybody involved. And it's something that, obviously, if you work in medicine, you know that it's always fascinating to me, like, there've been all these surveys done of doctors who, like, almost like, overwhelmingly, a lot of people who work in medicine do not, like, they want DNRs on their medical record. They do not want to be kept alive in certain states of being. And I think it's just like you've seen so much of not even Roxy's case, but even other kinds of ones in which people are shells of themselves. And Roxy is feeling that in, like, slow motion, almost as she's losing mobility, as she's losing agency. And so it's really not a question of how this ends for her. I think, again, some of the people involved clearly know where it's headed. She clearly knows where it's headed. It's just about the how and how much they listen to her along the way and kind of what dignity she's afforded in the way that across the ED right now we see doctors, like, trying to approach their patients with that sort of respect.
- [46:10]
B
That was very beautifully said. That brings me to the wrap up of Alana's story. Right.
- [46:16]
C
So, I mean, this is the other moment.
- [46:18]
B
Yeah, that's we've been asking for Emma to have, like something a bit more to do and we didn't. We were not privy to whatever conversation she had with Alana to get her back in the room. But Alana saying, like, she's a good nurse. Yeah. You know, and Dana being like, she's learning, but, like, you know, I'm curious what that conversation was and it feels like something a bit more substantive than what we've seen from Emma so far away.
- [46:42]
C
Well, I'm going through the mental gymnastics of I don't know if I've ever felt this for a TV character before. I'm proud of Emma. I don't know Emma, she's not even a real person. But it's like, because we had been only seeing her be introduced to new things on the job on her first day here in the pit, even just knowing that she did that well, even seeing just the way she leaves the room, which is not just now it's your time to move on, but this kind of like, parting note she has with Alanna. I can't help but be proud of her in a way. I don't know, it's a weird thing to say about a fictional character, but here I am.
- [47:15]
B
I think that's really. That's lovely. Dan is proud of her too. Yeah. We got a lot of emails from listeners talking about their experiences through something like this on one side or another of the process. I did want to read. I'm not going to use anyone's name here, but I did want to read a part of one of the emails we got that says Joe mentioned how long and invasive the fre seems on the pit. And I want to let both of you know that the pit actually softens how long and invasive it actually is. They can last hours. So seeing Dana get through so much of the examination in less than an hour was a bit of a fairy tale. So, like, for dramatic purposes or whatever. The pit is like, we're not gonna do this for four episodes. We're gonna do this for like one and a bit. You know, Alana coming back in. Alanna Rejecting the plan B, but getting all, like, us hearing, like, all the things that she's going to have to do, the medications that she's gonna have to go through to take care of herself for this thing that was done to her is a huge part of it. And of course, Dana's absolute explosion in finding out that the previous kit that she put to be picked up was not picked up and then chewing the cop out on the phone, that's kind
- [48:26]
C
of the counterpoint to, like, this is in a lot of ways the best version of this process. Not just in terms of the expedited process you're talking about for what can be so much more dramat. Drawn out and so much more invasive and traumatic, but even just like, having someone like Dana in the first place, which, like, I'm glad you were here today. I mean, just fucking shut me down right there. But the chaser for that being all of this went in this moment as well as you can ask for the worst day of your life. And now you go to the refrigerator, and they didn't even pick up the last one. And it's like, it's. It's a huge gut punch. And obviously you understand Dana's fury, but it's just like, even when the person involved does all the right things, theoretically, like, the systems are still fucked, right? Like, whether that's this one in particular or the larger things we talk about every week with this show, as far as, like, who is allowed in, who's not, who's paying for what, and how, like, everything is messed up. And so, like, all you can do is try to be Dana in this moment. And even then, you, like, Dana isn't failing, but the system is failing. People like Alanna, if not her.
- [49:28]
B
I think the thing that underlines a lot of what you're talking about in terms of the doctors and their interactions with patients, comes they said the thing inside of Samira's interaction with this guy George, who's come in for this test, and he's confesses, like, actually, I didn't even have the thinly veiled excuse I usually use to come in. I just kind of wanted to see you and talk to you. And he talks about how she's encouraged him to get out. He's like, I've joined. What is it? Lawn boiling?
- [49:57]
C
I think it was lawn bowling.
- [49:58]
B
Yeah, lawn bowling. Great, right? Community matters. That's what is said here. And this idea that, like, for so many of these people, for. For a George or for a Louis, who, like, you know, our guy Digby Disappears for a while because he goes in to visit with Louie. Like, there are certain people who don't have the community that even that Roxy has around her inside of this episode that Jackson has around inside of him inside of this episode. So, like, this is a thing that the doctors of the Pit do as well, which is be the community for the lonely. Howard's like, you know, I have an estranged sister that I don't talk to, and that's it. And so he's, like, out here on a raft by himself inside of this experience. So for Abbott to, like, turn on the buddy charm for him is, like, a huge thing that these doctors do that is above and beyond the simple diagnosis thing that completely.
- [50:53]
C
I mean, the emotional labor in this kind of work is just off the charts. And that's in addition to, again, the precision they have to work with in terms of their medicine and the urgency with which they have to treat these patients. Like, it. It's fair and completely within bounds that the Pit is constantly preoccupied with. Like, who in this ER has PTSD at a given time and who's flaring up because it's like, how could you
- [51:13]
B
not, frankly, with all the things you're
- [51:14]
C
holding, everything you're holding together.
- [51:16]
B
Samira, you. You mentioned that she and Alhashimi have, like, a sort of where. Where is my career going? Conversation inside of a. A very busy day that you were very skeptical of.
- [51:25]
C
I felt like it could have waited till tomorrow.
- [51:27]
B
There are people do take break. Like, for all Whitakers, like, there are no breaks here. Like, Langdon's in the break room. Like, people are in the break room. You know what I mean?
- [51:35]
C
Absolutely. Take the break. But I don't know if you're this way, but, like, if. If I. We have low stakes, meaningless work in the grand scheme of things. When I'm ready for break time, I'm like, I don't want to talk to anybody. I want to sit here and sip my icy beverage. A crispy diet Coke.
- [51:51]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [51:51]
C
Don't even. It can wait. Whatever you got going on, it can wait.
- [51:55]
B
I can put those, like, boundaries up around you, Rob. But I also.
- [51:58]
C
Well, that's me when I get home.
- [51:59]
B
Oh, I got you.
- [52:00]
C
After a three pod day, again, our life is very hard.
- [52:03]
B
Yeah. Please don't talk to me. I will not be talking to you.
- [52:05]
C
I simply will not.
- [52:06]
B
I woke up this morning, my throat hurts so much. And I was like, why? And I was like, oh, maybe five hours of yammering into a microphone yesterday would be possible.
- [52:13]
C
We'll get you checked out. We'll get Dr. Mohan and hear Post taste so much.
- [52:17]
B
She mentioned. So she mentions that, but she had been part of a study about racial disparity in healthcare. We saw this in season one with the sickle cell patient that Samira was like, hey, wait a minute. Et cetera. We get a dig in at the Trump White House. You love to see it.
- [52:31]
C
This is where. I wish we had the capacity for this pod to do a graphic across the bottom of the screen for living out with the Pit.
- [52:37]
B
Yeah, Living out with the pit, baby.
- [52:39]
C
Some rainbows, some shooting stars.
- [52:42]
B
So Al Hashimi's like geriatric medicine. Why not?
- [52:46]
C
I did think this came, like, a little too close. On the tail of her comforting the previous patient.
- [52:51]
B
Guess what? We got a lot to do.
- [52:53]
C
We do.
- [52:53]
B
We gotta keep it so many hours in the day.
- [52:54]
C
I did wanna talk about Giovanni and Ogilvy joining forces for the first time. We're not so different, you and I.
- [53:00]
B
Sure.
- [53:01]
C
For one. I just really appreciate the way that them despising each other has led to shockingly good patter and good choreography of these scenes. The way in which they just kind of, like, wordlessly go their separate ways. I just think they play incredibly well for a character I like and hate. In Ogilvy, there was a good comedy
- [53:19]
B
bit when they're like. When they sort of bust into the Jackie Jackie tongue room, right? Where don't go in the tongue room. Yeah, the Jackie Jackie tongue room. It's not where you want to go, but they sort of, like, bop their heads in, like. Like they're the three Stooges or something like that. And then, like, also Joy, like, looks over and she's like, what the hell is going on?
- [53:37]
C
This is what I'm saying. Like, it just kind of works with them.
- [53:39]
B
It was like. Like puppies in a basket. Energy in part.
- [53:42]
C
I mean, clearly they're aligned as, like, know it alls who are stumped by this weird case. And I gotta say, of all the things you've seen in the pit, this is fucking wild, Joe.
- [53:49]
B
The full body blister.
- [53:50]
C
The full body blister. Margarita burn.
- [53:53]
B
Mm.
- [53:54]
C
I mean, one is somebody who. I appreciate a margarita also. If this happened to me, I would be so convinced I was dying. The idea that this is just like, you squeeze limes in the sun.
- [54:03]
B
Unreal for first chilaquiles, and now margaritas are sort of catching strays from the pit. Really, really tough, I think. Look, I'm here to defend margaritas, of course.
- [54:15]
C
Even just limes.
- [54:16]
B
Like, do you Have a margarita recipe.
- [54:18]
C
I actually don't. I don't do a lot of making them myself. I'm more of like, if you're gonna make something at home, more of a sangria kind of situation. Let's. Let's have it.
- [54:27]
B
My Aunt Sarah taught me. Three, two, one. Three parts tequila, of course. Obviously, two parts triple sec or some kind of orange liqueur, and then one part freshly squozen lime juice.
- [54:39]
C
Sorry, freshly what?
- [54:41]
B
And then you gotta. Then you gotta salt the room. No, chemically chemical. Margarita mix in.
- [54:46]
C
You don't wanna have that. Of anything involved.
- [54:47]
B
I really don't. I really don't. But that's. That's the vibe.
- [54:50]
C
But I loved this little side quest, and I love the fact that Joy solves it.
- [54:54]
B
I just asked a question, literally, like,
- [54:56]
C
you nerds were out here talking about fringe cases. Why didn't you just have one conversation with this guy?
- [55:00]
B
All right, Right. Diagnosis, spoiler corner. If you do not want some medical professional's ideas of what's going on with Dr. Al Hashimi, now's the time to go. Bye.
- [55:10]
C
To be fair, I don't even know that it required medical professionals. I feel like this is one of those, like, the breadcrumbs are so strong. When she's discussing last week, Alashemi and Abbott about.
- [55:19]
B
Oh, I don't think it's that.
- [55:20]
C
Oh, you don't think it's that?
- [55:21]
B
Yeah. But you tell me what you think.
- [55:22]
C
Well, I. I feel like the lines are being drawn pretty strongly off of that exchange alone. This idea that she was working in this maternity ward in Kabul. Like, there's real life evidence that that maternity ward, or one similar to it, was the focus of a targeted terror attack. Literally, that one was a literal terror attack. And so the idea that she would have, in her own way, like, a form of PTSD associated with, like, we see her zone out for the first time when she hovers over baby Jane Doe. Like, that would be kind of tying into whatever she's experiencing and getting treatment for.
- [55:54]
B
Okay, stress trigger. So. So the diagnosis seems to be absent seizures, which were once upon a time called petite mal seizures, but now are more accurately called absence seizures. This is a description of them. The person suddenly stops all activity without any warning. It may look like he or she is staring off into space or just has a blank look. The eyes may turn upward as an eyelids flutter. The seizure usually lasts less than 10 to 20 seconds. The person may be momentarily confused for only a few seconds, but then is back to normal. It happens a lot in children, not very often. In adults, it's genetic. But in adults, can be triggered by stress. Okay, so could be related to ptsd, like onset by ptsd?
- [56:37]
C
Yes.
- [56:38]
B
The fact that she's had a couple today, I think, is really. So it could be the PTSD of baby J. Do. Like sending her back to this traumatic thing that happened to her. I don't think the traumatic thing is the inciting incident for this. This particular case, but that. That thinking about it could trigger this inside of her and then just the stress of the day. So is the question, can someone with this condition, even if she's being medicated for it and getting treated for it, can she handle the ed, the er, you know, and so I don't know the answer to that because I am not a doctor. So, you know, Dr. Cyban gmail.com. but, like, I wouldn't be surprised if it's connected to that. But I don't think it's as simple as this is ptsd. It's like a very specific medical condition.
- [57:23]
C
I think the PTSD elements are interesting to me because there's so much overlap with everyone else who works in the pit. And so if you're trying to figure out, like, what do these people have in common? How can Dr. Alashimi feel more connected to everyone who went through Pitfest, to Robbie himself, like, being able to share in the burdens of this kind of work, even if it is tapped into something very specific that she went through with Doctors Without Borders, that's like, interesting storytelling fodder for me. But it's also interesting if it is something genetic and unavoidable that is, like, endemic to her. Right. Something that she is bringing to the table that no other doctor is.
- [57:56]
B
That the harsh reality of it, given, like, all the harsh medical realities, is, like, limiting to her ability to practice this kind of.
- [58:02]
C
Exactly.
- [58:03]
B
Which I like, I never want to be. Again, I'm not a doctor. I'm not going to tell her, but I never want to be someone who says, you can't do this. You're not suited for this. But that is something that the pit is just sometimes, like, these are the realities of this medical condition.
- [58:15]
C
It's not even in a judgmental way. It's just like, this may not be it for you in the same way that it might not be it for some medical students who come through. It's like you're suited for it or you're not. And I think there were enough early nods, too, from Robbie as far as the environment she was coming through coming from Dr. Lashimi at the VA was not an equivalent situation. Was not a surgical context, for one.
- [58:35]
B
Correct.
- [58:36]
C
And so the idea that she's coming into something completely new, that she's being, like, you know, stretched in a way that she's not necessarily used to and
- [58:42]
B
a little hazed by Robbie, clearly.
- [58:45]
C
And so this has been a terrible initiation for Dr. Elishimi. An incredibly stressful environment. But it's also something that it seems like she's figuring out if she's cut out for this or not.
- [58:54]
B
Well, that's. That's this episode of the Pit. We did it. Thank you so much. We will see, folks, for the industry finale later next week.
- [59:04]
C
Can't believe it. Meanwhile, the Pit finale.
- [59:07]
B
So much.
- [59:08]
C
August, months away.
- [59:09]
B
Years December now. We'll be. We'll be there for a while. No cliffhanger really this week, Just Dana and Robbie regarding the chaos.
- [59:17]
C
You know what, though? I did love the chaos.
- [59:19]
B
Yeah.
- [59:19]
C
One of those things that's, like, harder to shoot than you think.
- [59:21]
B
Oh, yeah, it's a lot harder.
- [59:22]
C
Very naturally, go freak out about printer paper. I don't think actors are usually very good at that, but I like this one a lot.
- [59:28]
B
Yeah. John Cameron is the director of this episode. He directed Fargo, Legion and Xena, Warrior Princess and Hercules. So he's been at it for a while. Shout out the 90s. All right. It. We'll see you soon.
- [59:38]
C
Bye.
- [59:51]
D
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