'The Simpsons' Draft: Best Episodes, Characters, and More

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast Summary: 'The Simpsons' Draft: Best Episodes, Characters, and More

Release Date: June 17, 2025

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Introduction

In a special episode celebrating iconic television, Sean Fennessy hosts a lively discussion on The Prestige TV Podcast, delving deep into the enduring legacy of The Simpsons. Accompanied by Alan Siegel, the author of Stupid TV. Be More Funny, and special guests Charles Holmes from ESPN and Mina Kimes from The Ringer, the panel embarks on a comprehensive draft session to highlight the best episodes, characters, jokes, and more from the long-running animated series.

Personal Connections with The Simpsons

Alan Siegel shares his lifelong affinity for The Simpsons, recounting how the show became a staple despite initial parental resistance. He reflects on his childhood experiences, mentioning:

"[...] Simpsons has been part of my life since I was 7 years old. My parents at first did not want me to watch." [01:22]

Sean Fennessy echoes a similar sentiment, describing his own upbringing where The Simpsons was viewed with a mix of skepticism and intrigue by his parents. This shared history sets the stage for a nostalgic exploration of the series' impact.

Charles Holmes reminisces about feeling out of place without familiarity with the show, leading him to immerse himself in The Simpsons, King of the Hill, and South Park to bridge the cultural gap:

"I spent a summer just downloading Simpsons, King of the Hill, South Park, anything that was funny." [03:00]

Mina Kimes, contrasting her peers, recalls a family-oriented viewing experience where The Simpsons was a weekly fixture, fostering shared memories and familial connections:

"My whole family watched it together. My parents loved it. And the thing I distinctly remember is there were Seinfeld families and Simpsons families where I grew up, and we were just a Simpsons family." [03:13]

The Draft Session Begins

The podcast transitions into an engaging draft session where participants select their top picks across various categories related to The Simpsons. The categories include:

• Best Episode
• Deep Cut Episode
• Best Joke
• Best Cameo
• Best Parody
• Best Non-Simpsons Family Character

Sean Fennessy initiates the draft by explaining the rules and categories, emphasizing a focus on notable moments while excluding episodes already selected for deeper analysis.

Category Breakdowns and Picks

Best Episode

Sean Fennessy selects "You Only Move Twice" as his best episode, highlighting the introduction of Hank Scorpio, whose charismatic yet sinister persona encapsulates corporate culture parody:

"I think it's a great pick because it is everything the show wanted to be that couldn't have been if it was a live-action show." [66:32]

Mina Kimes opts for "Lisa on Ice", praising its blend of humor and emotional depth, particularly the relationships between Lisa, Bart, and Homer:

"I have found, maybe because I am a softie, that most of my favorite Simpsons episodes have. The core of the episode is the tenderness between two of the family members." [34:31]

Alan Siegel chooses "Mr. Plow" for its inventive narrative and cultural references, such as the homage to "Citizen Kane":

"It does a Kent Brockman thing where it's like, basically parodying Cronkite's report from when JFK got shot. It's like these really minute things that people don't remember." [66:32]

Deep Cut Episode

Alan Siegel recommends "Separate Vocations", a season three episode that ingeniously swaps the roles of Bart and Lisa through a personality test, exploring themes of societal expectations and personal identity:

"This is an episode that shows, like, the show sort of making fun of adults for projecting things onto their kids." [28:37]

Charles Holmes highlights "Strong Arms of the Ma", a later-season episode where Marge becomes obsessed with fitness steroids, critiquing the show's shift towards more aggressive humor:

"That episode was one where I was just like, oh, this is different. This seems almost too mean for a Simpsons." [36:57]

Best Joke

Alan Siegel picks the iconic Bort license plates from "Itchy and Scratchy Land", underscoring its status as a cult favorite and a symbol of shared fan culture:

"It's the ultimate secret handshake joke. [...] There's nothing like the Simpsons in that way." [46:00]

Charles Holmes selects the "Ned Mattress Backflip" joke from "Homer the Heretic", praising its perfect blend of animation and humor:

"The animators on that show are so brilliant [...] It's one of my favorite jokes of all time." [37:56]

Mina Kimes chooses the line "I moved to a bigger house" from "Homer the Heretic", appreciating its comedic timing and delivery:

"[...] I just think this is a classic portrayal of film festival culture to this day." [14:57]

Best Cameo

Sean Fennessy awards the Dustin Hoffman appearance in "Lisa's Substitute", lauding Hoffman's heartfelt performance and its emotional resonance:

"And the final moments of that episode are so touching and so cool." [30:49]

Alan Siegel honors Peter Frampton in "Homer Palooza", celebrating his comedic portrayal of a washed-up rock star:

"He was the funniest part of an episode that was hysterical." [62:50]

Best Parody

Sean Fennessy nominates the "Cape Fear" episode, recognizing it as a sustained and impactful parody integrating complex cinematic references:

"It's one of the more sustained parodies that the show has ever done." [12:15]

Charles Holmes selects the "Itchy and Scratchy Land" episode for its meta-humor and multi-layered references:

"It's a show within a show within a show. [...] Now that's just like, oh, that's everything." [43:22]

Mina Kimes advocates for "Marge vs. the Monorail", praising its clever writing and cultural references:

"[...] It's packed with jokes. It's jam-packed with incredible cameos." [16:07]

Best Non-Simpsons Family Character

Sean Fennessy chooses Lionel Hutz, emphasizing his comedic brilliance and the memorable interactions with the Simpson family:

"Lionel Hutz just always makes me laugh, makes me happy." [33:03]

Alan Siegel picks Kent Brockman, appreciating his role as the quintessential pompous news anchor:

"Kent Brockman is what I remember. That's my news anchor." [66:00]

Charles Holmes selects Ned Flanders, valuing his role as both a symbol of piousness and comedic foil:

"Ned Flanders was the character that kind of first, like, he was echoing things that I was thinking about. How annoying Christians were and how annoying church was." [58:26]

Impact and Legacy of The Simpsons

Throughout the episode, the guests reflect on The Simpsons' influence on television and popular culture. Alan Siegel discusses how the show's success set unprecedented standards for animated series:

"I think the show was a victim of its own success. [...] For the first seven to 10 years that it's impossible to keep that up." [41:56]

Charles Holmes contemplates the show's ability to predict and comment on societal changes, likening it to a cultural barometer:

"The Simpsons was the first TV show as a kid that I remember being like, oh, TV shows can be bad. They can get worse as they go along." [41:31]

Mina Kimes emphasizes the timelessness of the characters, noting how new generations continue to discover and appreciate the show's depth despite evolving media landscapes:

"They are timeless, especially in terms of appealing to kids." [75:31]

Concluding Thoughts

As the draft session wraps up, the guests recap their selections, acknowledging the rich tapestry of The Simpsons that spans decades. Sean Fennessy humorously summarizes the picks, highlighting the collaborative and spirited nature of the discussion:

"You've seen every fucking episode. You know I'm fucking ready. Let's go." [17:18]

Mina Kimes and Alan Siegel encourage listeners to engage with The Simpsons legacy, promoting Alan's book and emphasizing the show's continued relevance:

"Go out and buy Stupid TV. Be more funny at your local booksellers." [85:30]

The episode concludes with a celebration of The Simpsons' enduring place in television history, underscored by heartfelt endorsements from all participants.

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This summary captures the essence of the podcast episode, highlighting key discussions, notable quotes with timestamps, and the overall celebration of The Simpsons as a cultural phenomenon.

Transcript

[Sean Fennessy]

This episode is brought to you by monks. Contentful marketers. You know that feeling when your content just works? When you crush a viral trend before 10am when one tiny tweak to a landing page sends click through rates through the roof. That's contentful, dynamic content made blissfully simple. Contentful helps you create and launch personalized experiences instantly across any digital channel. No stress, no limits, only possibilities. Come get the [e-mail] foreign I'm Sean Fennessy, and this is the Prestige TV podcast. We have a very special episode today celebrating stupid tv. Be more funny how the golden era of the Simpsons changed television and America forever. Which is the new book by my colleague Ringer senior staff writer Alan Siegel. He's here with us. We're gonna draft Simpson stuff today. We have two special guests joining us from the midnight boys and the ringer. It's Charles Holmes from ESPN and from local eastside La Nina Kimes, friend of the ringer. Also huge fans of the Simpsons. So we're gonna talk about the show and the book a little bit first. Alan, congratulations on the book. Why'd you write this book?

[Alan Siegel]

Simpsons has been part of my life since I was 7 years old. My parents at first did not want me to watch. They watched an episode with the belly dancer, and they were like, our little son's not going to watch that. So they canceled it for a while, and then the craze was just too big and they relented.

[Sean Fennessy]

My origin story is extremely similar. For whatever reason, my parents, who were not super restrictive around what I could watch. But for some reason, there was, like, an energy around the show that was like, this is the devil's music. Like, you will not participate in this animated program. And so even just reading the opening bits of your book, I was like, ah, this feels familiar to me. This, like, this sense that there was something dangerous about a show that ultimately is, like, wildly sophisticated, incredibly entertaining, you know, endures so long. Charles, you're a little bit younger than Alan and I. What is. What is your background with the Simpsons?

[Charles Holmes]

I remember the day at summer camp vividly. It was elementary school, and there was these two bully kids, and they look at me and my brother, and they're like, you've never seen the Simpsons. And I felt like the biggest fucking ass. Like, they were laughing, they were pointing, and I was like. I had the calculation in my head. I was just like, I'm never gonna be good at sports right now. The cheekbones, they hadn't filled in. I didn't have the beard yet. I'M not gonna get the girls. I'm like, but I can watch fucking tv. And I spent a summer just downloading Simpsons, King of the Hill, south park, anything that was funny. I'm like, I will never be that kid on the playground. Like, look at this fucking asshole. He knows nothing about culture. And that's why I'm sitting here today.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's funny to situate it amongst King of the Hill and South park, because Simpsons feels like earlier, much earlier, you know, like, really, like, those shows would not exist without the Simpsons. What about for you, Mina? Like, when did you discover the show?

[Mina Kimes]

Very opposite experience from you guys in that my whole family watched it together. My parents loved it. And it was appointment viewing in our household. And this was a time when you were just a twinkle in your mother's eye that you didn't have options right on television. There wasn't streaming and all that. And I don't even know if DVR was invented at the time. So we just watched what my parents wanted to watch, and my parents wanted to watch the Simpsons. And the thing I distinctly remember is there were Seinfeld families and Simpsons families where I grew up, and we were just a Simpsons family. We actually didn't watch. I have a Wild Confession, which is the only episode of Seinfeld I've ever seen is the final episode.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, my God.

[Mina Kimes]

What? But I've seen almost every episode of the Simpsons.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's the least useful episode to watch. Do you want to get a feel?

[Alan Siegel]

It's like a clip show.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

My parents were like, well, I guess we gotta figure out what this is all about. But we watched the Simpsons every week. Half the audience is, like, so bad right now. Yeah, we watched as a family. And it also kind of paralleled my own family. My brother, not to jump ahead, but our structure of our family, the archetypes, very closely mirrored.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know a single person in my life that has more Lisa energy than you do. So this will be an interesting draft.

[Alan Siegel]

So that's an interesting thing that I wanted to touch on, which is we, like, we're mostly from the generation where parents were sort of skeptical about it. But I feel like you go maybe to Charles Age. Like, for us, for a while, it was the one show that we were not allowed to watch. But I think for a lot of kids, it became the only show that parents were happy to watch.

[Charles Holmes]

The black church was not fucking with the Simpsons. There was a list. Cause I was already. I could tell, like, I was getting in when the seasons were starting. To get bad. But it was still very much like Harry Potter, Simpsons, South Park. It was a bunch of. I had to watch the Simpsons at my grandparents house, watch while my parents were away. And they were just like, we don't give a fuck what you're watching. So it was still very much like a he, hee hee, I'm watching something that. And then soon, I think my parents were like, oh, there's way too much going on in the world. The simpsons is fine.

[Sean Fennessy]

I grew up in a circumstance where if I had a babysitter, they would let me watch whatever I wanted. And that was when I was allowed to watch roseanne. That was another example of a show my parents were like, no, Roseanne.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Which is odd to look back on and think about the things that were ultimately, I think these pretty sophisticated sociological portraits of American life, Obviously full of jokes and references and insight, and they were entertainment. But those are two really interesting examples of basically like middle class life in America. Really, really smart people behind the scenes writing those shows. And they were like, there was panic around them, you know, And I don't know if that was like a conservative panic or what, but it just. I relate to what you're saying, which is that we were told like, not yet, until five years went by and it was like, this is clearly the best show on television. And then it had won Emmys and everybody had agreed that it was okay to watch it.

[Alan Siegel]

The one that my parents never relented on was married with children.

[Mina Kimes]

Same.

[Alan Siegel]

And if you watch that now, there are some things in there that you're like, oh, my God, how did this ever get on the air?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, it still feels transgressive in a way that the Simpsons doesn't.

[Mina Kimes]

I was gonna say, like, obviously you revisited this and you get into this topic in the book. Looking back, do you feel like how subversive the Simpsons was is heavily overstated.

[Alan Siegel]

In retrospect, it was very subversive for the time. Like again, the United States president was shouting it out in a very negative way.

[Mina Kimes]

And more like the Waltons.

[Alan Siegel]

Yeah, right. More like the waltons and less like the Simpsons. Despite the fact that the waltons were like new deal democrats, but we won't get into that. But again, like a kid saying hell and damn to his parents, like, that really was different. Like Alex p. Keaton on family ties was not doing that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Right, right. I. I think Bart was really the originating angst for parents that the idea that this rebellious kid who people would model their behavior after was like, seemed dangerous. And you Know, like, we look back on the show now, and it's like, this is actually not a Bart show to me. As I look at it, I'm like, it's Homer first, and then it's Lisa, and then it's Bart in terms of the hierarchy of, like, the characters that are meaningful. But Bart was the pop cultural sensation aspect, the one that, like, led a lot of kids to the show.

[Charles Holmes]

The best episodes, I was just like, oh, the best emotional episodes that I remember are like, I didn't realize. I didn't remember. I was like, this is a Lisa. Like, I was like, what? Every single episode, I was like, oh, I love these.

[Mina Kimes]

I'm so nervous about the draft and my very unfair rank where you have me slotted in every third over and over.

[Sean Fennessy]

No, no. We'll do a fresh draft order.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay?

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm asking Justin Sayles off camera to give us a fresh draft order. That was just for document purposes.

[Mina Kimes]

So best episode, I gave myself, like, you know, seven or eight to think through. But, yeah, it's so Lisa heavy. And you kind of feel like when you go back and you read some of the lines and some of these best episodes, that the Lisa was the avatar for all of the writers, 100%. And there's a reason why.

[Alan Siegel]

Yeah, it started as Bart just because he was such an easy character to write for. And then they kind of ran out of ideas, and then it was. It was like a combo of Lisa and Homer. Cause, like, Lisa, they were. They were all nerds. So that's what they started with. And then as they got older, it became Homer, obviously.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, so, Charles, we know Mina is Elisa. If you're a Simpsons character, which. Which character are you?

[Charles Holmes]

Honestly, this might trip up someone I want to pick, but, like, I realized as a kid, I was like, I'm never going to be like Mo. I was rewatching it. I'm like, exactly like Mo. He's my hero.

[Sean Fennessy]

A grouchy small business owner.

[Charles Holmes]

Yes. Constantly getting made fun of by children.

[Sean Fennessy]

Alan, what about you? Who do you identify with? Who you see yourself as?

[Alan Siegel]

Well, just to give you some context, the cake toppers at my wedding were Lisa and Milhouse.

[Charles Holmes]

So you are very Milhouse Cody.

[Alan Siegel]

So, okay, so this is an admission. I know. So I'd say, like, from my teen years to, I don't know, my mid-20s, probably Milhouse. But I definitely leaned into Lisa as I got older, and I would like to say that that's who I identify with. Identify with now.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's nice. I think, unfortunately, in this phase of my life. I've got a really strong Troy McClure thing going on where I'm just extremely presentational and full of shit and maybe not doing my best work, but I'm powering through. We are going to draft today. So Alan devised this. These are the categories that we're going to draft from. Best episode, Deep cut episode, which is amorphous and can be defined however you choose. But real ones will know if you're going deep cut or not.

[Charles Holmes]

I will say if anybody picks anything from the first eight seasons, Mike, you cheat.

[Sean Fennessy]

I agree with that, though. I'm not putting it in ink. Non Simpsons family character. Best joke, best cameo, and best parody. Can you win this draft? Is it possible to win it?

[Alan Siegel]

I think that the options you have are so good that you. It's like you can't lose, but you also can't win because how do you decide?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I agree. You. You feel like you're coming in cutthroat. You're ready to blow people out of the water.

[Charles Holmes]

It's. It's like, I'm just. I'm just here for fun. I'm just hanging with my buds. This also, this collection is very Springfield esque.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, this right here, this energy.

[Charles Holmes]

No, just us. You know, just like four. Just random people. Assemblage of people coming together in a small town.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm talking about you not as Springfield, but you're Shelbyville and I'm Springfield.

[Charles Holmes]

Shelbyville. How dare you?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Or Cypress Creek. What's the name of. Yeah, Scorpio's town.

[Alan Siegel]

Yeah, the Pacific Northwest town.

[Sean Fennessy]

Mina, you're famously very competitive.

[Charles Holmes]

Whoa, whoa.

[Alan Siegel]

Famously, huh?

[Mina Kimes]

Much like Lisa. I am a little competitive. The dog comes out sometimes. Those are some of my favorite Lisa moments in the. When she kind of breaks character a little bit in ways when. Or her love of, like, Itchy and Scratchy things. That would seem to be out of character. But no, no, I'm not gonna be weird part because I am just meeting two of three of you for the first time. Sean and I actually were at dinner last night. He was like, how do you know Alan? I was like, I've actually never met Alan. I blurbed his book. I don't even remember how that came about. I have such a terrible memory. So we just met, so you're gonna.

[Sean Fennessy]

Be on your best behavior this week.

[Alan Siegel]

Yeah, okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I won't be. Cause I don't know how to do that. We're doing in snake fashion, so we'll be bending back and forth. You're at the turn. How do you feel about the turn?

[Charles Holmes]

That's where I live. That's where I thrive.

[Mina Kimes]

Best episode is a good category to the last because it's deep. I feel like when we get to, like, best parody, it's gonna be more competitive.

[Sean Fennessy]

I completely agree with one parody.

[Charles Holmes]

To ruin, to like, to rule them all.

[Sean Fennessy]

Now, let me ask you a point of order question about parody. Is it important that the entire episode be the parody or that there be a micro parody inside of an episode that we're locating?

[Alan Siegel]

So I think there's a difference between parody and reference. And a reference would be, like, pretty short, maybe one shot, but a. Rather a reference. Yeah. And then a parody would be just more extended. I don't know if it's. I think it has to be like maybe 30 seconds or more.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I agree with you. In your book, you talk about how, like, Mad Magazine is so influential on the show, and I don't think I ever made that connection, even though it's so obvious. But when you watch the show so frequently, the idea of, like, putting ideas in front of you that you didn't know you were going to learn about in the future. So I'm gonna use that to set up my first pick, which is in parody, which is also probably a contender for one of the best episodes, which is Cape Fear, famous Sideshow Bob episode in which Bart and the Simpsons are threatened by or by Bob, and they're using the Robert Mitchum film and the also recently recreated Robert De Niro Martin Scorsese movie to set up Bob as this terrorizing ex con who comes back to haunt the family. And it's like one of the more sustained parodies that the show has ever done. Definitely one of the best episodes, Bob, A personal favorite of mine for reasons that are probably a little bit upsetting if you want to analyze them. But I think that, like, this is a great example of the show putting something in front of me and me having no. Like, I had not seen Cape Fear. I had not seen the original Cape Fear. I didn't have any idea of, like, the Max Cady character. Bob, at that point had already been in many episodes of the show. Sometimes in small ways, sometimes the focus of the episode. I think this is like, maybe the second or third episode where he's the focus.

[Alan Siegel]

I think it's maybe the third.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, the third. And obviously Kelsey Grammer's performance is insanely good. It's so funny. And his willingness to be as deranged as he is is a hallmark. And I also really, like, the complete ignorance that Homer demonstrates through, like, every BOB episode. Like, he never has any idea what is really going on with bob, which I just think is, like, a great little character trait. So that's my first pick in parody. I only listed four contenders for parody. Even though there's a lot of good references, I don't know if there's as many that, like, extend.

[Charles Holmes]

All right, this also has one of the greatest jokes ever. But that was gonna be my next question when. So Kate Fear is in parody. So that's off the board. You can't take a.

[Sean Fennessy]

You can't take a.

[Mina Kimes]

Why are we doing this? So clarify. Sorry.

[Sean Fennessy]

So it's in parody, which means that you cannot choose it as your episode. You cannot choose a joke from that episode.

[Alan Siegel]

Half of my favorite jokes.

[Charles Holmes]

First of all, the brownie chainsaw joke is a top five Simps joke. I watch it and laugh for five minutes straight.

[Alan Siegel]

I like when Homer's passed out and Lisa's like, dad's been drugged, and Marge is like, no, he hasn't.

[Mina Kimes]

The number of times my brother and I would say, bake him away toys to each other.

[Sean Fennessy]

Bake him away toys was my number one. It's joke. It is the best.

[Mina Kimes]

The entire parole meeting, everything that happens in that meeting is so funny. Die, bar. Die. No, it's German for the Bardi.

[Sean Fennessy]

Bardi.

[Mina Kimes]

No man who speaks German can.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know what it is about that episode. I don't know who wrote. You can probably tell me who wrote that episode, but I don't know what it is. But that feels like the apotheosis of the show in some ways. Like, it is, like, joke a minute, but also high reference point and also, like, narratively interesting and engaging and fun.

[Alan Siegel]

So that was John Viti, and that was the last episode where the original crew of writers was together.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, that makes a lot of sense.

[Alan Siegel]

And it was interesting because. And this is where I'm lording over everybody with my anecdotes. But it was weird for the show and for TV because it was a parody of a single thing for an entire episode. So if people haven't seen that movie, like, they're kind of lost.

[Sean Fennessy]

But it didn't matter.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah, as a kid, it didn't matter. But as a kid, I also was like, oh, it's teaching me something that's above me. And that was, like, what made it cool to watch, because I'm like, oh, there's, like, stuff I don't even understand.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, that's true. Over and over. Again in the show. Okay. That was my first pick. Mina, you're up.

[Mina Kimes]

I'm also going to pick in best parody because this is a short list for me, and I feel like they're going to get used up pretty quickly, and I'm going to go March versus the monorail, which is probably on people's. I guess, best episode. I'm guessing it's my number one.

[Charles Holmes]

These going in parody and not in best episode is. Okay, okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Forcing you to dig in.

[Mina Kimes]

It's a parody. This is an episode long, similar to Cape Fear of the Music man, which is similar to K Fear, a thing I've never seen. I had never seen when I watched this episode, but obviously I learned about it through the episode. Actually, it's kind of similar, I feel like, to Cape Fear. It's jam packed with jokes. It's jam has incredible cameo that might get taken in our cameo. I feel like someone takes it.

[Sean Fennessy]

It can't get taken now because it's off the board.

[Mina Kimes]

Wait, you can't take a cameo?

[Sean Fennessy]

No.

[Charles Holmes]

All right, guys. Guys are insane.

[Sean Fennessy]

We're drafting. The episode is gone.

[Mina Kimes]

I've never been part of a draft like this.

[Charles Holmes]

Well, we need to create.

[Sean Fennessy]

There's 900 episodes of the Simpsons. We need to create some.

[Mina Kimes]

I might need urgency here. I might break in for some rules at some point.

[Charles Holmes]

This was not communicated to Mina or.

[Sean Fennessy]

I. Y' all only just watched Marge versus the monorail to prepare for this. Come on. This is the Simpsons draft. All right, well, you know he's ready.

[Charles Holmes]

You've seen every fucking episode. You know I'm fucking ready. Let's go. Okay.

[Mina Kimes]

When you said, I don't want to lord my anecdotes over you, that sounded like a comic book.

[Alan Siegel]

Oh, it was designed to be like that. Yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think it's a great pick.

[Mina Kimes]

The cameo would be Leonard Nimoy, who has some of the funniest lines of any celebrity ever. That's not his only Simpsons cameo, right?

[Sean Fennessy]

It's not. Don't spoil it. I think I'd be on the cameo board.

[Charles Holmes]

Like, I didn't even know who Leonard Nimoy was when I watched this episode. And then you, like, I watch Star Trek and you get it. And I'm like, that was the Simpsons for me, where it was like. I was like, oh, this is a real part. Because I was so young watching it. I was like, in elementary school, I was like, who are these people? I know.

[Sean Fennessy]

But we didn't know that we were being inspired to discover what the answer to these questions Were, you know, like, I wasn't like, I need to go Google who Leonard Nimoy is. You couldn't Google it. You could ask your parents. But I wasn't supposed to be watching the show, so I couldn't ask. So it was like, how do I figure out who Spock is and why he's even on this episode? You just like, it has to come to you over time.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. There's probably a generation of kids who only know him through the gif of him saying the cosmic ballet goes on, have no idea who he is. No context for it at all.

[Alan Siegel]

The high minded way to look at it is it got us curious about other things, other smarter things, which is really rare for sure.

[Mina Kimes]

Has also one of my favorite jokes of all, just we can't talk about anything else in the episode. In other categories, I call the little one bitey when Homer's talking about. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, Alan, you're up.

[Alan Siegel]

Okay, so I'm gonna stick with parody and I'm sticking with this because, well, you'll see. It'll be evident in a minute. But I'm gonna go with Duffless, which is the episode where Homer gives up alcohol.

[Mina Kimes]

It's a good one.

[Alan Siegel]

And there's a song he sings. And I had no idea of this. And it's based on a song called It Was a Very Goodyear by Frank Sinatra, which if you've seen the Sopranos, is in the opening montage of season two. It's the only moment I think we see Paulie Walnuts having sex in the entire series on a pool table.

[Sean Fennessy]

Thank you for locating that.

[Alan Siegel]

Yes. So, okay, I need to warm up my voice. I'm gonna sing.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, God.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, wow.

[Alan Siegel]

Okay. This is the song Wellbeer. Oh, it's Homer, by the way. Wellbeer. We've had some great times. When I was 17, I drank some very good beer. I drank some very good beer I purchased with a fake ID. My name was Brian McGee. I stayed up listening to Queen when I was 17.

[Sean Fennessy]

Did you guys own and listen to the various albums of Simpsons music? Go simpsonic with the Simpsons songs in the key of Springfield. The Simpsons Sing the Blues.

[Charles Holmes]

There were others I did not, but I did literally before I got here. Watch the fucking. The Bartman rap. And I was like, this is fucking hits. Oh, Bartman, this hits still today. Great. Michael Jackson on the backing vocals. Fucking amazing.

[Mina Kimes]

Where the cd. Cause I think my brother might have owned it. It was all songs from the Simpsons.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think Simpsons Sing the Blues was original.

[Alan Siegel]

Simpsons Sings the Blues was Like, a. Produced by a real rock producer, like.

[Sean Fennessy]

John Boylan, who, like, worked.

[Alan Siegel]

Helped form the Eagles, and he was working on that album. And, like, he said his daughter was so proud of him. And I was like, was that weird for you? And he said, well, she doesn't know who the Little River Band is, so, you know, they're gonna be. She's gonna be excited about that.

[Mina Kimes]

Is that your favorite song from the Simpsons that you just graced us with?

[Alan Siegel]

Yes. I say it to myself all the time, and my wife kind of, like, tilts her head after the 50th time of the week.

[Mina Kimes]

Do you have a favorite song? Sorry, I'm not.

[Sean Fennessy]

I do, but I don't want to spoil it. Oh, I might. I might want to draft it in.

[Mina Kimes]

Form or fashion, but I don't think I'm going to draft it. But if I say it, do I take it from.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, what's a tricky thing, too, is, obviously, there's been, like, this incredible, like, analysis by folks outside the show and inside the show about Apu over the years and, like, the role that Apu has played in culture. And Hank Azaria has been very open about kind of, like, reckoning with what he said. But there were, like, Apu had some incredible musical moments on the show. They're so funny and so engaging. So it's like, as I even think about my list, I'm like, can you have, like, an Apu moment? Maybe you should have.

[Charles Holmes]

I'm gonna pick some shit that I'm just, like, culturally, probably not the greatest pick, but also, that's what I loved. Going back and watching where I was like, this joke is still funny. I know it's offensive, but it's also kind of like a snapshot of the jokes that me and my friends were saying at that time. And I'm like, that's okay. Like, it's just like, we grow. It's hard.

[Sean Fennessy]

I get that. I get that. Okay, well, now's your chance to offend our sensibilities.

[Charles Holmes]

What are you gonna say before I offend the sensibilities? I'm not. I guess I'm not picking the episode, but I'm picking the moment. Because I still think this is one of the funniest parodies ever. I am picking the Planet of the Apes musical.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, yeah.

[Charles Holmes]

Dr. Zayas. Dr. Zayas.

[Sean Fennessy]

This was my favorite song. From Chimpan A to chimpanzee.

[Charles Holmes]

When he does. When he does the breakdancing move, it's like Chef's Kiss. I think the best Simpsons moments to Me, it's not just the joke, but it's like there's a non sequitur and then you have the animation. Like there's always levels. And it's like rewatching this, I'm like, oh, as a kid I got like one level of this. And as an adult I get like three. And as an old man, maybe I'll get to like five. And Dr. Zayas is one of those moments now where I'm like, I understand more of it and still like doing research on that episode. I'm like, fuck, I missed like half the fucking chain.

[Alan Siegel]

I think it's one of the first shows that really rewards rewatching over and over and over. Like, you can watch episodes and pick up on stuff 30 years later that you didn't the first time.

[Sean Fennessy]

So that episode is called A Fish Called Selma.

[Charles Holmes]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's from season seven where she marries McClure. Troy McClure, yeah. And is it the first total Troy McClure episode?

[Alan Siegel]

Yes, I think so.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Troy McClure, obviously, Phil Hartman, huge part of the success of this show. I suspect he'll come up again as we keep talking. Really good pick. I listen to that song a lot on the. I think that was on Ghosts of Sonic with the Simpsons Believe. So there's like 48 tracks on that CD and that was like number 36. Okay, you're at the turn, so you got another pick.

[Charles Holmes]

So I think I'm going to go cameo.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Charles Holmes]

And I'm not going to pick this person because there's someone else who I think does a better job. But I have to say, Michael Jackson fucking killed it. Michael Jackson killed it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Another example of like the, the, the complications 35 years later. But Lisa, it's your birthday.

[Charles Holmes]

Lisa, it's your birthday. I don't think it's on Disney because I was trying to rewatch the episode.

[Alan Siegel]

They took it off.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah. And I was just like, what? So I literally had to go to YouTube and like watch janky ones. But I kept, I'm not going to pick Michael Jackson.

[Sean Fennessy]

Interesting that they took it off.

[Alan Siegel]

Yeah, they really did. My best friend's son read my book and my friend said, yeah, he really learned a lot about Michael Jackson in the book. But what happened? I mean, Charles, explain the premise though. Like, who does Michael Jackson?

[Charles Holmes]

Michael Jackson is Leon Kompowski and basically it's the send up of whatchamacallit. I'm blanking on the name. The fucking Chuck Nicholson film.

[Alan Siegel]

One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest.

[Charles Holmes]

One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. And Homer goes to this mental institution where he meets Leon, who thinks he's Michael Jackson. And first of all, it's so funny that, like, Michael Jackson didn't have his name in it because so many of the jokes and references are basically like Bart being like, no one's going to believe that I'm talking to Michael Jackson. And I was like, I haven't gotten a chance to read your book. But I just didn't realize how much Michael Jackson wanted to be involved, not just in that episode. He's like, I'll write you guys a number one hit song. I'm like, what the fuck?

[Alan Siegel]

Like, his. Again, the sort of Peter Pan qualities of him that, you know, becomes a little more sinister as the years go on. Like, it sort of made sense that he was a huge Simpsons fan.

[Sean Fennessy]

It did. It's interesting that he couldn't. Didn't put his name in just because of the publishing, you know, the idea that, like, the record labels and the way that his. I mean, the power of a Michael Jackson penned song was so profound that he needed to. They needed to write an episode around him being not Michael Jackson.

[Alan Siegel]

Right. And he basically didn't sing the song in the episode. It was like his vocal impersonator. Because again, of, like, contractual issues that they were afraid, like, that Sony wouldn't or would sue. Sue the shit out of him for it.

[Charles Holmes]

Michael Jackson would be my heart pick, but I can't pick him. So I'm gonna go, Meryl Streep is Jessica Lovejoy.

[Mina Kimes]

She's great.

[Charles Holmes]

Great pick. Is like, watching the episode, like, I know it's Meryl Streep, but I'm like, you are such a good actress that, like, no, you're Jessica Lovejoy. Like, it was like there was this moment where it was like my mind. I'm like, as a kid watching the episode, I don't care who fucking Meryl Streep was. I didn't give a shit. And then rewatching this episode, I'm like, oh, you are one of our actors. Because it's just so. Just engrossing. And she does such an amazing job. It was.

[Alan Siegel]

I just like, when she's like, bart, Bart.

[Mina Kimes]

Am I misremembering? Did Winona Ryder play another Bart love interest? Am I misremembering that?

[Alan Siegel]

I think she played Lisa's rival.

[Mina Kimes]

Lisa's rival. Nevermind. Yeah. Because there have been some interesting actresses, older actresses, playing the kids over the years. And you do. You totally forget.

[Charles Holmes]

Forget. But also I going back and just like, Seeing stills, I'm like, there are so many episodes of the kids just getting, like, different love interests. Like, Milhouse gets a love interest. Lisa gets a love interest. There's multiple episodes where I'm like, am I misremembering who Bart dated? And I'm like, he's dated a lot of guys. A lot of girls.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, Mina, you're up.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay. I'm deciding between two. Two groups of people. I'm doing cameo as well, because I feel like cameo is a top heavy category.

[Sean Fennessy]

Don't take what I want. There's one that I really want.

[Mina Kimes]

I knew I was going to wipe out an episode and a bunch of jokes.

[Sean Fennessy]

No, you're going to kill me here.

[Mina Kimes]

I'm taking all of the baseball players and Homer at the back.

[Charles Holmes]

Hell, yeah. Hell ye.

[Mina Kimes]

I know. You thought I was taking another group of people.

[Sean Fennessy]

Don't. No, no. Just one person. Just one person.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay. All right.

[Sean Fennessy]

But I'll tell you why I think it was. You were going to go.

[Mina Kimes]

I just wanted to make sure I got them all. Wade Boggs, Jose Canseco, Roger clements, Ken Griffey Jr. Whose head gets, of course, gigantic size. Don Mattingly, Steve Sachs, Ozzie Smith. And Daryl Strawberry. Who's really the highlight?

[Sean Fennessy]

The star. Truly the star. Very, very important to young me, seeing Daryl Strawberry in the show.

[Alan Siegel]

I mean, it's wild thinking about having nine baseball players as guest stars on a national TV show. Now, like, how do they get them all to.

[Charles Holmes]

Was that the second. Was that the second season?

[Alan Siegel]

That was the third season.

[Charles Holmes]

Third season, yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Well, that's the other thing that, like, blew my mind. This was 1992. They got Ken Griffey Jr. In 1992 to do a cameo on the Simpsons.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, conversely, are there nine famous enough baseball players?

[Alan Siegel]

Mookie Bets, Mookie bats and Paul Skeen's baby.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, it's a lot of baseball talk. I feel like that episode would have been leader in the Clubhouse for first pick overall. So you gotta.

[Mina Kimes]

I think you gotta steal there and it. Yeah, I feel like a lot of great sports episodes, but homer at the bat has to be one of.

[Sean Fennessy]

If you had to choose one player, you go on Griffey, Seattle origins and whatnot.

[Mina Kimes]

I mean, Daryl Strawberry, the scene where the tear rolls down his cheek. My brother and I water off a duck's back.

[Sean Fennessy]

Very powerful.

[Mina Kimes]

Being taunted.

[Sean Fennessy]

Very powerful. Okay, another good pick, but that wasn't the one I was aiming for. And I hope you don't fuck me right now. Okay, Alan, what are you taking?

[Alan Siegel]

So I'M gonna do Deep cut episode.

[Charles Holmes]

Okay.

[Alan Siegel]

And a Curious. If I say the name of it, I'm wondering if anybody has heard of it. It's called Separate Vocations. Does that sound familiar? So that's a season three episode. Season three, yes. It's where Lysa and Bart change roles, so they take, like, a personality test. I know it.

[Mina Kimes]

Personality test, yes. Now I remember this one.

[Alan Siegel]

I would like. This is an episode that shows, like, the show sort of making fun of adults for projecting things onto their kids. And so Bart basically becomes a cop, and he becomes a hall monitor. And it's very kind of scary. Some of the things, like he goes on a ride along with the cops, who are obviously totally incompetent, and he. Bart basically likes that they have qualified immunity. And Lisa. Lisa just becomes like, her personality test says she's gonna be a homemaker, and she's really sad about that, and she just becomes a delinquent. And, you know, she starts going to the bathroom and her friends, like, offer her a cigarette, and she's like, I'll smoke it in class. And so basically, Bart and Lisa at the end reverse roles again. And it's very sweet, but, you know, it's pretty. Pretty sad, actually, at parts of it, which is like, something the show really did well in the early years.

[Charles Holmes]

I will say season three episode is cheating. It's fucking cheating.

[Sean Fennessy]

You don't think that's a deep cut and yet you didn't know the title? Separate Vocation.

[Charles Holmes]

All right, here's the thing. Do any of us know the titles of the act? Because I was going through, I was.

[Mina Kimes]

Like, I don't know, any of the most famous ones.

[Alan Siegel]

Kind of unfair for me, like, Kate.

[Charles Holmes]

Fear, Margin of the Monorail. Like, those are the ones I know. But when I was, like, trying to do research, I'm like, if I watch this episode and then I watched five.

[Sean Fennessy]

Minutes, I'm like, we're about to get into I don't know the name of this episode territory.

[Mina Kimes]

For me, everything after I started high school is a deep cut because, you know, same.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm. I'm aiming more for episodes in the 20s seasons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are. To me, those are deep.

[Charles Holmes]

Mine were like, once you get to, like, 12, 13, I was like, these are still good seasons. But I was like, ooh, some of these are okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

All right, I've got two picks here for D cut. I'm not going deep cut yet.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm going to go with cameo, which takes, I think, one of the great episodes off the board, I'm going with Dustin Hoffman as Mr. Bergstrom and Lisa's substitute.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, wow. Lisa's substitute. A top three episode.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think it's like one of the greatest episodes of television of all time. It's like a beautiful piece of writing. Beautiful that is, you know, if you were a little Lisa ish and I was a little Lisa ish. You know, it was very emotionally impactful. When you make a connection with somebody in school and you feel like somebody sees you. Which is what happens to Lisa in this episode where her teacher. Is it Mrs. Hoover becomes. She thinks she has. Is it Lyme's disease?

[Mina Kimes]

It is Lyme disease, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And so she's out for a few days and Mr. Bergstrom comes in voiced by Dustin Hoffman. And he sees her, he understands her, and she understands him. And they make a connection and they're like their farewell. The final moments of that episode are so touching and so cool. And he gives her the note. And this is also. This episode is like an homage to the Graduate in some ways. So it could have probably gone in parody as well. But just a beautiful episode. A beautiful thing. And very interesting that so early in the run of this show, Academy Award winner Dustin Hoffman was like, absolutely, I'll do an episode. Crushed it. And he's so good.

[Mina Kimes]

So good.

[Alan Siegel]

Oh, go ahead.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, no, I was gonna say that episode also has one of the all time B plots, which is Bart running for president.

[Charles Holmes]

Oh, yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Sex, now that I've got your attention, Vote Bart. Which is a joke I make constantly that people don't get and they just think I'm being weird. Also be like, sex, now that I've got your attention, let's. And people are looking like, what? Like, no, it's a Simpsons, you know. But anyways. And then of course, nobody remembers to show up to vote and Martin gets elected.

[Charles Holmes]

What's the joke there? There's one really, really good joke where she's like, he comes in in a like a cowboy costume and she has to like guess everything that's like non cowboy. And she's just like. And you're Jewish. And he goes, Italian. He's like, no, do it. So good.

[Alan Siegel]

Do you know what he's. He's credit. Dustin Hoffman is credited as in that episode.

[Sean Fennessy]

So different name, right? Yeah.

[Alan Siegel]

Back then it was kind of frowned upon for actual actors to do animation. Like it was considered like a backwater. So he was credited as Sam Etic. So that was a nice little reference right there.

[Sean Fennessy]

Sam Medic.

[Alan Siegel]

Sam Eddick. Like Semitic.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Alan Siegel]

There you go.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, that's really funny. I didn't know that. Okay, I have another pick. I'm going to go with non Simpsons family character. I'm going to pick my favorite character on the show, and that character is Lionel Hutz. I thought about doing best joke, but you can't do this joke anymore. And you can't do any Lionel hut's jokes because I just took him off the board. But Mr. Simpson, I was just going through your garbage and I couldn't help but over here you needed a babysitter, which is one of the most perfect. Knocking on the Simpsons door. Lionel Hutz. No money down. Phil Hartman is essential to the show. The fact that this was happening alongside his fame on Saturday night live and this kind of like brilliant creation of the blowhard gas bag, self knowing guy and then using that to do multiple characters across the history of the show is essential. Lionel Hutch just always makes me laugh, makes me happy. I can't remember which episode it is where he is selling real estate with Marge. But when they go through the flip book of how to describe each property and he's like, I can't even remember the jokes. I won't even try to recreate them. But every single adjective that he uses to upgrade where Marge thinks a house should be described is unbelievably funny. So he's my favorite non Simpsons family character.

[Alan Siegel]

Marge sold the murder house. That's all I remember from that episode.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, Mina, you're up.

[Mina Kimes]

I will do best episode. I think this I'm the first person to do best episode. Is that correct?

[Sean Fennessy]

Get in there. Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay, so I have two favorite episodes and Lisa substitute is one of them. It's kind of a 1, a 1B. Could go either way. My other favorite episode of all time is Lisa on ice.

[Alan Siegel]

Ooh, that's a good one.

[Charles Holmes]

Great episode.

[Mina Kimes]

Did anyone else have that on ice?

[Charles Holmes]

Great episode.

[Sean Fennessy]

No, but talk about it.

[Mina Kimes]

This would. I feel like I took a lot of jokes. There's so many funny jokes in this episode that I wrote them down to make sure I had the words right. But first of all, I think it. I have found, maybe because I am a softie, that most of my favorite Simpsons episodes have. The core of the episode is the tenderness between two of the family members, Lisa and Bart, or Lisa and Homer. Like Lisa substitute is a great example of that. The stark raving. The one with Michael Jackson isn't great.

[Charles Holmes]

At example, Lisa with her friends when she goes on vacation.

[Mina Kimes]

Lisa with her friends try to be cool. But this Is really. I felt like. I remember when I was a kid, watching it captured kind of how I felt about my brother, which is he was unbelievably annoying. He used to literally trap me in my room and make me smell his farts. But at the end of the day, we loved each other. And that's kind of what the story of Lisa and Ice is about. It's about for those who have forgotten. Apu realizes that Lysa has unbelievable sticks, or just reflexes, I guess, and makes her the goalie of his hockey team. Her and Bart are on rival hockey teams. Homer has some of the funniest lines of his entire Simpsons tenure in this episode. As he gets invested, Mo has a great, great moment where he tries to get Marge to give him inside information on the injuries, because he's betting on them. I'm just gonna read some of the jokes. I mean, this has some of the iconic Simpsons lines. Me feel English. That's impossible. Is in this episode also one of my favorite Simpsons Milhouse lines of all time. I don't know if you remember this one. Sorry, Bart. I'm gonna hang out with Lisa for protection and to be seen. I just love that so much. Homer, your child versus mine. The winner will be showered with praise. The loser will be taunted and booed until my throat is sore. Lisa as the cutthroat goalie saying, ralph Wigan lost his shingard. Hack the bone. Hack the bone. Homer saying, I have a tiger in mouth of a teamster. There's just so much when Bart rips off the head of his own cherished toy. Childhood toy, Honey. Mr. Honey Bunny. But anyways, it's just top to bottom. I feel like all of the core family members have incredible moments in this episode, and it's incredibly funny.

[Sean Fennessy]

I didn't revisit that one for this, but now I feel like I need to watch it again.

[Charles Holmes]

I literally wanted to put it in deep cut, but I'm like, they're gonna fucking kill me. This isn't a deep cut.

[Mina Kimes]

Lisa and Ice. Oh, man.

[Charles Holmes]

It's a great episode.

[Mina Kimes]

That's a core episode for me.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, Charles.

[Charles Holmes]

All right, so I got two picks. Let's see. You know what? I'm just gonna. All right, for best joke, this is coming from Homer the Heretic. And it is when the house is on fire and Ned is trying to save Homer, and he says, dear Lord, may your loving hand guide Homer to the mattress, square and true. And he pushes out of the mattress, and Homer bounces back into the house. And then Ned has to do a. I think he jumps out and does a backflip into the house Again. Like I said, every single Simpsons. Like, the Simpsons jokes I love the most is not just like, what they're saying, but what the animation is like, is communicating. And it's like you can freeze any frame of that moment, and they're just all like, Homer just being. Just fainted. And it's just. It's great. I love it.

[Alan Siegel]

Like, the animators on that show are so brilliant and they kind of get lost because the writers are so, you know, venerated by people like me. But the animators are what really made it, like, so great. That's a great example.

[Charles Holmes]

And it's like, I am part of the Tumblr generation where it's like so much of, like, in college, even if I wasn't watching the Simpsons, so many of the GIFs, so many of the moments and the memes were just, like, so focused on, like, the animation and how cool it looked. So that is like my favorite joke of all time. And this. This best episode I'll go next is probably ground zero for why I'm, like, such an asshole. Just in terms of. Just like, when I watch TV or movies, I'm gonna go, the Itchy and Scratchy and Poochie show because it's. This joke has been, like, burned into the ground. It's cliche, but whenever Poochie's not on screen, all out characters should be asking, where's Poochie? Is just like, in my mind. I still think, like, when I'm watching. Sorry, James Gunn. When I'm watching a James Gunn movie and I see, like, a cute character or I see, like, this baby Yoda motherfucker, I'm like, oh, boochie. And it's like something where. When I was a kid, it was like, teaching me the intricacies of just like network TV and focus groups.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. I think you captured something that the Simpsons did that was not subversive but revolutionary, which was. It was more meta than anything on television. Pucci is a great example of that. That was the first time, I think any TV show or entertainment product had articulated the idea of a Poochie character or that kind of interference that you're talking about.

[Alan Siegel]

It kind of became like the jumping the shark episode. Like, one of the writers told me, like, poochie's a great example of when that happens. You should stop your show. And again. And the Simpsons, too, unlike a lot of shows, is really up, like A history of tv. And I think that that is kind of underrated about it.

[Sean Fennessy]

I do think that you said it was ground zero for you being an asshole, but I think it's kind of patient zero for irony poisoning. You know, the idea that, like, we all know how things really work and we are, like, being cynical enough to see through the machinations of corporate power or, you know, the network system or whatever, however you choose to define it, is very instructive. But also, there is a downside. There is, like, it's hard to enjoy things when you have writers and producers on the show who were so willing to lift the curtain and not just lift it, but then also lift up their dress. You know, like, they were, like, so willing to just show you how everything operates.

[Alan Siegel]

There's like a natural cynicism about the show that really, like, seeped into my brain. I mean, the writers will say that their worldview was like, you know, basically that life is absurd. It's punishing, but it's worth living. And I do think that that's a message at the end. But I tend to think we kind of go in the former category a little bit too much from the show. Like, there is just a natural cynicism that it's very clear.

[Charles Holmes]

Simpsons was the first TV show as a kid that I remember being like, oh, TV shows can be bad. They can get worse as they go along. When I was a kid, it was just like, TV was just something that you watch, and it's like some episodes, I would laugh at some episodes, whatever, but it was just on. And then as I kept watching the later seasons of the Simpsons and reading about the lore and the original writers, it was this eye opening moment where I'm like, no, like a TV show is an actual thing. There are actual writers, and at some point, if a TV show is long enough, it's gonna get bad or it's gonna get lesser.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, I wanted to ask Alan about that because I feel like you have paid closer attention to the last 15, 20, even 20 seasons of the show than we probably have, than most people have. Honestly. Even though the show is on forever and feels like it is just an institution of American life, has the show gotten better or worse? Or is it some of it just a product of coming to something at an early age? The same way whatever you heard on the radio when you were 12 imprints on you.

[Alan Siegel]

I think the show was a victim of its own success. I think that right now it's pretty good. It's maybe one of the best animated shows, but it was so damn good. For the first seven to 10 years that it's impossible to keep that up. Like, sitcoms don't stay funny with 22 episodes a season like the Simpsons.

[Mina Kimes]

Do you think it's also possible that some of the things we're talking about that made it subversive? And it wasn't just subversive. It was like cussing and a kid saying damn. But also the meta thing, what you're talking about sort of opening the kimono and all of that is just too common now. It's like no longer a groundbreaking concept.

[Alan Siegel]

Right. It's sort of the edges get sanded off. Like, I remember I interviewed someone and they said that their kid watched south park first. And when you go from south park to the Simpsons, it just.

[Sean Fennessy]

It seems tame.

[Alan Siegel]

Yes, it seems tame. And when you're a kid, you're gonna gravitate towards Cartman being an asshole for whatever reason.

[Charles Holmes]

But even the Itchy and Scratchy show, when I was rewatching, I was just like, oh, this must have been so cool to watch when it was first happening. Cause you're like, okay, this is a TV show inside a TV show inside a TV show. And it's like, now that Adventure Time, everything from south park to Family Guy, it's like Rick and Morty, all of it is a reference inside of a reference inside of a reference. But when I was a kid, I was just like, oh, that's Tom and Jerry. But I'm watching the Simpsons version of Tom and Jerry that's on the Krusty the Clown show. And it's like, now that's just like, oh, that's everything. That's the spider verse. That's everything we watch.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think there's a difference that is interesting. I think about this all the time with new movies because most contemporary movies, especially like a lot of the movies that you guys talk about, Midnight Boys, like a lot of Marvel stuff is very fourth wall breaking, is very self referential, is very much informed by this energy that we're talking about. But it feels like those things are being written to gratify the audience as opposed to this feeling when you're watching the Simpsons of those guys gratifying each other, like in the room.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And then finding a way to communicate their taste and the things that meant something to them to us. As opposed to like you're watching Free Guy and all of a sudden he's holding Captain America's shield and everybody is like, I know what that is.

[Charles Holmes]

Which is a different.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Simpsons was never about.

[Mina Kimes]

It's Pandering.

[Sean Fennessy]

Exactly, exactly.

[Alan Siegel]

And it's sort of the difference between the Simpsons and Family Guy. Like, Family Guy will have these cutaways to pop culture references, but they just don't feel organic compared to the Simpsons.

[Mina Kimes]

At least so many things now it really is references. Like, the references in the system. Simpsons do feel earned in a way that, like, very few shows, cartoon or live, have that sort of.

[Charles Holmes]

I was Googling, like, stuff that I, like, didn't get still. Like, I'd just be like, what was this joke? And it was so funny. Like, it was on a Reddit. They're just like, no, that joke doesn't make any sense. That's just like, one of the writers. Just like, it's a non sequitur. You're not supposed to understand it. And I was like, oh, fuck, yes. Like, I was, like, hyped because I was just like, oh, there's a little bit of love in it. Versus, like, sometimes a Family Guy just. It feels like, oh, you guys kind of took the easy way out with this reference, man.

[Alan Siegel]

There's one I want to mention, but I'm gonna wait. I'm so excited.

[Sean Fennessy]

We got some picks to go.

[Alan Siegel]

So I'm gonna do best joke, and it's gonna be from Itchy and Scratchy Land, and it's going to be Bort license plates. So that is when over Mina's shoulder right now. So, yeah. So if anybody hasn't seen it, Bart is in the gift shop of Itchy and Scratchy Land. He's looking for a personalized plate. Can't find one. They have Barclay, other names, and Bort, but no Bart. And so the thing about that joke is, to me, it's like the ultimate secret handshake joke. And so, because I'm who I am, about 10 years ago, I interviewed a bunch of people who had real Bort license plates as their vanity plate.

[Mina Kimes]

Incredible. God, I would lose it if I saw someone on the street.

[Alan Siegel]

I talked to a guy who got off from speeding tickets. He didn't have to pay the, you know, the cop let him go. I talked to one guy who's like, yeah, I had to take it off because I thought it was gonna get stolen. And, like, it is the ultimate bonding thing. It's like this dumb tossed off joke that, like, kind of runs through a couple times. You know, in the episode. Like, they say they need more Bort license plates in the gift shop, but, like, there's nothing like the Simpsons in that way. Like, I think, you know, we have water cooler shows and we have secret handshake shows. And that's what the Simpsons is.

[Sean Fennessy]

I love that description.

[Mina Kimes]

It's a great joke.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, Mina.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay. I'm gonna do best joke too. You kind of got my. So many of mine were for Kay fear. It's fine. It's fine. Sideshow Bob has no decency. He called me Chief Piggum. Okay, Mine is not from an episode that any of us talked about, so it's fair game. I'm just gonna del deliver it exactly how it's delivered by Crusty the Clown. Let's just say it moved me to a bigger house. Oops. I said the quiet part loud and the loud part quiet. That is from a Burns from all seasons, which is the episode where they have the film festival. Crusty was bribed to pick Mr. Burns. I just think about that and how it was written, how it was delivered all the time.

[Sean Fennessy]

Eerily accurate portrayal of film festival culture to this day. I can confirm. That's a great one. I'm trying to think if I should do a joke or best episode because I feel like if what if? Because my joke might be in my episode. But I want to talk about this episode. So I'm just going to do episode and I'm going to do you only move twice.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, man.

[Sean Fennessy]

This is the Hank Scorpio episode.

[Charles Holmes]

Sorry, Alan.

[Sean Fennessy]

I had to take it from Alan. I thought you would have taken it just there. Alan, how many years ago wrote a feature story about Hank and the creation of Hank and that episode.

[Alan Siegel]

That was my first ringer story. So it's very special to me. And we'll let Sean go on.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, I mean, speaking of a parody of corporate culture, I had forgotten that the cold open of this episode is Smithers walking down the street and being accosted by a woman in a limousine asking him if he wants to take a job with Global Chemex.

[Alan Siegel]

Globex.

[Sean Fennessy]

Globex. Thank you. Which is a nuclear power company that is secretly a terrorist organization run by multimillionaire Hank Scorpio is voiced by Albert Brooks. And Hank Scorpio is just a hilarious portrait of like I think basically all CEOs. Even though he's also meant to be seen as like a Bond villain. And he's incredibly funny in the joke I would have picked is I didn't even give you my coat. Which is when he is describing how things work in Cypress Creek, the town where he moves Homer and the Simpson family to a brand new home which has this extraordinary self cleaning kitchen and house that obviates Marge's entire life and drives her to drink. That also leads to Bart realizing that he is not learning at the level that would be appropriate for his age. And so he is sent to the remedial room and all the characters find themselves kind of like at wit's end, like, unable to adapt to this lifestyle. Except for Homer, who we know is not a very good employee at the power plant in Springfield, but in this world, because his employees are such attentive and motivated people, that he is a great manager and a great leader, and he is very happy in his work, not realizing Hank Scorpio is on the verge of attempting to take over the world. Incredibly funny episode. Scorpio is like an ingenious construction. You can almost feel the, like, we had a meeting with Barry Diller or with Michael Eisner energy in this episode where the general suspicion of the person who is pulling the lever at your company seems very genial, but is quite.

[Alan Siegel]

Sinister underneath and thinks he's very funny.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, yes. And he's not always the most charismatic guy in the room in his mind.

[Charles Holmes]

My question for Alan, though. Cause you were talking about Homer. When do you. Cause, like, Homer was interesting because I was popping around in seasons where I was just like, there's a point where Homer becomes so heartwarming. And his relationship with Lisa especially is just so fundamental to the show. And as I kept watching later and later seasons, I was just like. It felt like they kind of got rid of that a little bit where he's like, homer almost becomes. I don't want to say dumber, but a little more heartless. And I was just like, where was the dad who, even when he was being an asshole, still. I was just like, oh, fuck, I wish he was my dad.

[Alan Siegel]

It kind of felt like they dropped him a couple IQ points every week. There's an episode with a joke where I think it's like there's a rendering plant. And the gag basically is that it's Homer that reeks and not the rendering plant. And one of the writers came in when they were writing it or doing the storyboards, and he's like, eh, guess Homer smells now. And it's like they just kind of. They had such fun with him because they could put him in any situation. They just were like, we're going to make him dumber and dumber and dumber.

[Charles Holmes]

I miss nice Homer.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. I mean, it's funny that he became the lodestar for anything that they wanted to do. He could be much more flexible, which you would not have expected when you Originally saw the show. Okay, I've got another pick. I think I'm going to do best joke, and I'll set it up by saying it's from the Canine Mutiny, which is a rough parody of Lassie in which Santa's Little Helper's gone and Bart adopts a new dog. And Milhouse is admiring. Is it Laddie? Laddie is the name of the dog. And Milhouse is reflecting on Santa's Little Helper and says, remember the time he ate my goldfish and you lied to me and said I never had any goldfish? Then why did I have the bowl, Bart?

[Charles Holmes]

Why did I have the bowl?

[Mina Kimes]

Why did I. One of the. It might be Milhouse's best line. Milhouse has some bangers.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's incredible. It's obviously become a meme. This, like, this sense of being gaslit is perfectly communicated through that joke. And Milhouse, a very unsung hero of this show. I was just thinking about actually. And you only move twice when Bart goes into the new class. And immediately a young boy comes over who looks just like Milhouse and is like, hey, do you need a best friend who you can be little and be bigger than just an amazing. Who voices Milhouse?

[Alan Siegel]

Pamela Hayden.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. Yeah. Just like one of the greatest. Also the genius of the show is, like, consistently getting women to voice young boys. And the way that. That what that does to your brain and your understanding of immature little boys is very wise, I think, in the show anyway. It's just like a laugh out loud, funny joke that also has layers to it and has been reprocessed 35 straight years.

[Charles Holmes]

No Houses. Responsible for the greatest rock band of all time. Fall Out Boy. I rewatched that episode just for that.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a good point. Don't spoil any of your upcoming picks here. Mina, you have a pick now.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay, we're nearing the end. We only have, like a couple categories left. If I'm right. Let me see. So I still have best deep cut and I think best non family character are the two remaining ones for me. I will go non family character. I think only Lionel Hutz has been taken. Is that right?

[Sean Fennessy]

That's right.

[Mina Kimes]

I am going to go with Mr. Burns revisiting some of the lines. It's some of the best writing. Homer at the bat before he gets the all stars when he says he wants Honus Wagner. Maybe someone from the Negro, like all.

[Alan Siegel]

The old timey Mordecai, Three Finger Brown.

[Mina Kimes]

So many of the lions. You could tell the writers had so much fun making him old timey and evil. And he is obviously the perfect supervillain in a number of ways. He's at the core of many, I think, of the best episodes. I think this leaves Rosebud on the board, but there's still God. We didn't even the song. It was Dr. Zayas, of course, which is probably the best Simpsons song. But my second favorite song is See my Vest. To the point where I'll be in a dressing room and will say to myself, see my sweater. It's authentic Irish setter. And someone will look at me like, this is an Abercrombie and Fitch. Also, you're in your 30s. What are you doing here? It's an incredible song. I think I still remember all the words I wrote down. My favorite quote was actually, like, I don't even remember. I know he was giving a pep talk to his football team. Men, there's a little crippled boy sitting in hospital who wants you to win this game. I know because I crippled him myself to inspire you. I think of that all the time. Yeah. No, he's just so funny. I think he is one of the funniest characters in the entire series.

[Alan Siegel]

I think it's just the pure evilness of him.

[Sean Fennessy]

There's no nuances, but there is, like, a vulnerability. Like, you took a star as Burns. Right.

[Mina Kimes]

The joke from that is my favorite with Krusty.

[Sean Fennessy]

The other joke that I love in that episode is I was saying boo. Urns. You know, the idea. Are they saying boo?

[Mina Kimes]

Iconic.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's like, such a great moment.

[Mina Kimes]

The Smithers Burns dynamic. Had there ever been anything like that on television? Right.

[Alan Siegel]

Like just the ultimate toady.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. A man a little. So obviously in love with driving around for a week.

[Charles Holmes]

I literally just will, like, start laughing when I've gone. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. It's so fucking dumb.

[Mina Kimes]

He has some of the dumbest lines, too, but they're just. This is funny.

[Charles Holmes]

Who's this voice actor? Because, like, probably one of the best.

[Alan Siegel]

Harry Shearer. Yeah. I mean, he. It's like his voice is like an instrument. It's crazy. He. The way he plays with it.

[Mina Kimes]

Market research shows people see you as something of an ogre. I ought to club them and eat their bones all the time. There's so many lines like that. So funny.

[Sean Fennessy]

You got two. Your final two picks here, Charles.

[Charles Holmes]

You know what? Am I allowed in Best non Simpsons family character to pick Sideshow Bob or does Cape Fear Take him off the board?

[Mina Kimes]

No, this episode. You can't Take everyone in the episode.

[Charles Holmes]

Sean half of this show.

[Alan Siegel]

Isn't that some draconian rules?

[Charles Holmes]

For sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

He's the focus of the episode, though.

[Mina Kimes]

Wow.

[Charles Holmes]

This is. No, no, no.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's fine.

[Charles Holmes]

Fuck it. No, you know what? I don't want to have anybody say that I'm cheating on this. So this character has not gotten a lot of love, but I was surprised how much they are integral to the show. And it would be Ned Flanders because, like, some of the.

[Mina Kimes]

We haven't talked about him in a while.

[Charles Holmes]

Like, Ned is part of some of. Just, like, his wife dying. Like, just the religion aspect of the show. I also watched it, and I was like, is Breaking Bad just Ned Flanders? I was just literally like, this is just the Ned Flanders show. I love the character. I love him and Homer together. That's a character I probably underrated before this draft. And going back to each episode, I'm like, fuck, I forgot how many good lives you have.

[Alan Siegel]

The thing about Flanders that is sort of as a symbol of the show is he's a true Christian in the best way. He. Homer just bullies him, and it's miserable for him. But Flanders, like, doesn't waver at all. And when he does, it's very.

[Charles Holmes]

When he breaks, like, as I want. What's the episode where he has to, like, check. Like, he checks himself in, and you realize, like, he has, like, an anger problem.

[Mina Kimes]

He has to spend too much time with Homer.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

We're trying to be his best. I can't remember.

[Alan Siegel]

It's. I think it's like Hurricane Nettie. It's, like, where we find out his parents were beatniks.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Alan Siegel]

And they take him to a therapist, and his. His parents are like, we've tried nothing, and we're all out of ideas.

[Mina Kimes]

We've tried nothing, and we're all out. I would argue that actually Flanders was the most. Not to use this word again, subversive part of the Simpsons because, you know, like, oh, Bart Scamp, who's kind of rude to his parents. And, yeah, they cuss, or they don't actually cuss, but they say some crazy stuff. But having, like, a guy who was. His Christianity is what makes him annoying. I actually feel like that wasn't ever a thing on mainstream tv. But he's not a bad guy at all. He's, like, you said, really authentic. I remember being like, whoa, this is making fun of Christianity. Wow.

[Charles Holmes]

Being, like, in a very Christian household. Ned Flanders was the character that kind of first, like, he was echoing things that I was thinking about. How annoying Christians were and how annoying church was. And it was the first moment I was a kid, I was just like, oh, like institutions are bullshit. Like, I can actually not agree with this. And that's probably why my parents.

[Alan Siegel]

Well, it's not really. It's not really making fun of Christianity. It's making fun of piousness.

[Charles Holmes]

Yes.

[Alan Siegel]

And that is a distinction, I think, that is important.

[Sean Fennessy]

I do think that they would extend that out sometimes, though. Like, I just revisited TreeHouse of Horror 5 last night, which is the one that features the shinning. And the second segment in that episode is the Butterfly effect. One where Homer gets his hand caught in the toaster and he keeps jumping to alternate histories. And there is an alternate history where the sort of, like, floor, like, rises up and becomes a screen. And we learn that Ned Flanders is sort of like the supreme leader of society and that everyone must dress like Ned and everyone must act like Ned. And there is a little bit of, like, organized religion can sometimes do this to you in that subtle parody. So I think that they were able to kind of get away with everything. Like, sometimes it's attitude, sometimes it's point of view, sometimes it's way of life. They're never like picking on people.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

But they show that every person is flawed, which is one of the ingenious aspects of the show. Except for Mr. Burns, he's really evil.

[Mina Kimes]

But yeah, Lisa, we talked about how she's the avatar for the writers. They're making fun of her the. In like, her. She is like, what? Like, is a parody of people of California. Like, the way she. You know, that was also something overly sensitive.

[Sean Fennessy]

She was woke before woke.

[Mina Kimes]

She was exactly like some of her lines. And you go back the extreme liberalism. They were poking fun at her during the time.

[Alan Siegel]

I mean, when. When Marge becomes a police officer, there's a little scene where Lisa's like, now you're gonna keep everything constitutional. Like. Like that was in 1994.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah, there's a. There's a joke in. I think it might have been their first future episode where it's like, I almost had a heart attack. Because they always make the Simpsons. Like, oh, the Simpsons was predicting the future. But she throws. When Lisa grows up to be president, she throws in a line about, like, Trump ruining the economy. It's like, all right, fuck. I was just like, I can't do this right now. But there were so many times during my watch where I was just like, oh, when you're a long running show like this, you're just gonna get shit off where I was like, fuck, we're really in the Simpsons hellhole right now.

[Alan Siegel]

Yeah, it's kind of like the text of it is so rich that you can pull almost anything out of it. And I think the Trump joke is like, they nailed it. But. But overall I think you can.

[Charles Holmes]

It was a moment.

[Alan Siegel]

I was like, all right, yeah, yeah.

[Charles Holmes]

I have deep cut. This is my last one. This is going to be just a deep cut where I remembered this from my childhood. It's a later season. And this season is funny because they have two we're changing Marge's body episodes. And I'm going with the strong. The Strong Arms of the Maw where Marge gets addicted to steroids. Where, like, I remember watching as a kid and like, the. The plot is she goes to the Kwik E Mart, she gets mugged, so she becomes agoraphobic and can't leave the house. So she just starts, like, working out. And the reason I loved revisiting this episode, we talked about how once south park comes along and once Family Guy comes along, I start. You start feeling like the Simpsons is almost having, like this crisis, this internal crisis where they're trying to keep up with the. And that episode was one where I was just like, oh, this is a different show now. You guys are trying to push it. You're saying jokes, and I'm like, I don't like this seems almost too mean for a Simpsons. And that was the Simpsons that I was growing up with in real time where I would see the very sweet Lisa episodes. I'm like, oh, this is really, really great. And then on Sunday when I would just watch this is a New Simpsons episode, I was like, this seems different. This seems like pulled from another world. And like, those were the episodes. When I went back, I was just like, these aren't as great as the older episodes. But there's something from like, my childhood was like, fuck yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Alan, did we. Did we skip you last time around? Do you still have two picks to make?

[Alan Siegel]

I think I might have two or.

[Mina Kimes]

Three left, but extreme Milhouse energy.

[Charles Holmes]

Damn.

[Sean Fennessy]

Alan, raise your hand if I fuck that up. I believe you have best. How do you have three left?

[Alan Siegel]

I have best parody. Yeah, I have best non Simpsons and I have best episode.

[Mina Kimes]

Knock em out, let's go.

[Sean Fennessy]

Wait, what is your cameo?

[Alan Siegel]

Wait, I'm sorry. I did. Yeah, best cameo is what I didn't do.

[Sean Fennessy]

How do we miss two rounds for you, Alan? Jesus Christ, man.

[Charles Holmes]

This is your all out, boy. What's going on?

[Sean Fennessy]

What the hell happened? You just Let Charles just trample all over your picks.

[Alan Siegel]

All right, I'm gonna write the ship. I'm gonna write the ship.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, three straight picks now.

[Alan Siegel]

All right, best cameo. I'm gonna go with Peter Frampton from Homer Palooza because.

[Mina Kimes]

So funny.

[Alan Siegel]

He was a washed up rock star. Apparently they wanted Bob Dylan, and so they asked Peter Frampton. They're like, yeah, we want you to come on and be on this episode with the Smashing Pumpkins and Cypress Hill. And he's like, wait a sec. He's like, I don't really belong in that. And then Peter Frampton kind of figured it out, and he was like, wait, so am I gonna be the washed up guy and is that what you want me for? And she was like. The casting director was like, yeah. She's like, okay. So he did it, and he was the funniest part of an episode that was hysterical. So.

[Charles Holmes]

Oh, yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

There are so many musical cameos over the years like that. I don't know. I was just thinking through, like, artists who have been on and it was over a dozen. I could just off the top of my dome thinking, I actually thought, by the way, for best cameo, you ended up going with Dustin Hoffman. The one I thought you were doing because I thought you were gonna do a group was the Ramones. When Mr. Burns says, Kill the Rolling Stones.

[Alan Siegel]

Rolling Stones Killed.

[Mina Kimes]

The Rolling Stones. Killed.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, that's a great one.

[Mina Kimes]

But, like, I mean, how many bands and artists?

[Alan Siegel]

A ton. I mean, the funniest one that never made the show was Lyle Lovett wanted to do it. Just like a very dated reference. And they presented a part for him, and he's like, no, thanks. So there are some people that just, like, didn't quite get the show. And they wanted Pearl Jam really badly for the Homer Palooza episode, and they didn't do it. And the other one that I love is Jake Hogan, this writer they wanted Bruce Springsteen, like you wouldn't believe. So Jake Hogan, this writer, sees Springsteen on the street, runs up to him and he's like, I work for the Simpsons. You want to be on the Simpsons? And Springsteen looked at him, and then Kogan had this idea like, oh, fuck, this guy probably has stalkers. So Springsteen never did the Simpsons.

[Charles Holmes]

Wait, Springsteen still has never done Simpsons?

[Alan Siegel]

I don't think so.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's so funny so early in the show. Like, krusty Gets Canceled is one of my favorite episodes. And there's, like, so many famous people in that episode. Like, Bette Midler is recreating her send off to Johnny Carson. But how Chili peppers are in that episode, like, that's early on too. You know, that's, like, fairly early in the show's run. So they just, like, commanded people so quickly.

[Charles Holmes]

Ludacris as Ludacrest.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, you've got two more. Two more.

[Alan Siegel]

So I'm gonna do best non Simpsons character, and I'm gonna do Kent Brockman. This is the second Jewish famous person on the show with a different name. So his name, it's like, this is one of my favorite jokes. They reveal his name is Kenny Broclestein, I think is his original name. And just the pompousness of him is so good. I mean, the famous joke is when Homer's in space and there's a video shot of an ant farm breaking, and Kent Brockman just goes, I, for one, welcome our insect overlords. And it's just something I say to myself all the time. The show does such a good job with these archetypes, like pompous news anchor, that it sort of seared into my brain more than the actual Screwwalt or Cronkite. Kent Brockman is what I remember. That's my news anchor.

[Mina Kimes]

Dr. Nick Rivera is the person I always think about. When I think about whenever I see a Twitter doctor being like, wow, that NFL player tore their ACL immediately my brain.

[Sean Fennessy]

Hi, everybody.

[Mina Kimes]

They're all Dr. Nick to me.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, you have one more pick. So how did we skip you twice? What happened?

[Mina Kimes]

How many picks does everyone. I have one more.

[Sean Fennessy]

I have one more as well.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, you're done.

[Charles Holmes]

I'm done.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

I think we know how.

[Alan Siegel]

So is it. So have we decided? Is it cheating to pick a best episode in the first eight seasons? What do you think? The best episode or the best episode? Okay, so I'm gonna do Mr. Plow.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Can't believe it's still on the board.

[Alan Siegel]

And this is why. Because it is everything the show wanted to be that couldn't have been if it was a live action show. So you have Homer and Barney as rival plow drivers, which is insane. You have, like, random cameos. You have Adam west from Batman. They love the writers great cameo. They loved the original Batman. Linda Ronstadt is in it. She sings a jingle for Barney, and it's like, I believe the line is, Mr. Plow is a loser, and I heard he was a boozer is the song. And then you have these random cultural references that nobody knew about. Like, you know, I mentioned Cronkite. They do a Kent Brockman thing where it's like, basically Parodying Cronkite's report from when JFK got shot. It's like these really minute things that people don't remember. But the one I love is there's a short reference to the movie Sorcerer, which is a William Friedkin movie from 1977 that at the time was almost, like, out of print. I don't know if you could get that on VHS at all. And it's like Homer on the bridge and his truck is kind of going back and forth, and you hear a Tangerine Dream score. And the thing is, I didn't get that reference. I didn't get that reference until I was 39 years old. Which is just, like, proof of what you learn from watching that show.

[Sean Fennessy]

Great pick. Okay, Mina, you have deep cut.

[Mina Kimes]

Yes. That is my final one. You will judge me for this because mine is from the first 10 seasons. I'm not going to pick something that I didn't. It said favorite deep cut, so I can't pick something and pretend to like it. And that's just when I watch the Simpsons. But it's this episode featuring character that we have not talked about at all, and that's Marge Simpson. Not talked once about.

[Sean Fennessy]

Marge Simpson, misogyny rings here at the Ringer.

[Alan Siegel]

Classic podcast of the Simpsons when they didn't make any friends for poor Marge at the time.

[Mina Kimes]

Marge is such an underrated character. And this episode, I think, illustrates why. It's scenes from the class struggle in Springfield. Yeah, everyone see, it is a deep cut. Look at you. The furrowed brows tell us the erasure. So this is the one where Marge runs into her high school classmate, Evelyn Peters, who invites her to the country club. Evelyn Peters, who says, you've come a long way from the girl in high school. I don't remember. And Marge is wearing a Chanel suit that she got at, like, a thrift store for $90 that she continues to repurpose in outlandish ways to find things to wear as she tries to fit in. There's a scene, too, where Horace in the car, and he's like, you, Mom's busy fitting in and they have to wait for her. It's a great Marge. It has some really funny lines, one of which I wrote down. I think it's Evelyn who says, I love your outfit. The vest says we're having lunch, but the culottes say you're paying, which I always think about when I see those. I don't know if I said that word right. Oh, and also has one of my favorite Homer lines. Maybe for once Someone will call me sir without adding, you're making a scene. But it's a great March episode because you see that, like, Marge is this housewife, and she's not given a lot to do, but she has this, like, you know, rich, interior, internal life. She has dreams of her own. She wants better things for herself, but ultimately, her love for her family is the most important thing to her. I'm gonna actually. I didn't write a die. I'm gonna mess this up. There's a part where she says, homer, I love your humanity. Lisa, I love your intelligence. Bart, I love you, Bart. I'm mingling that. But anyways, it's a great Marge episode and has a lot of funny lines.

[Charles Holmes]

When did Marge become a sex symbol, Alan? Because it didn't start like that.

[Sean Fennessy]

It did happen.

[Alan Siegel]

I think that that was later when they were running out of ideas and they sort of made her like. She gets breast implants in an episode?

[Charles Holmes]

No, but like, in the larger, like, consciousness where I'm just like. By the time I get there, it's just like, you see, like, sexy, like, Marge shit. And I was just like. Similarly, you saw hood Bart, like, fucking shirts. And I'm just like, when did that become a thing? Because, like, watching the early season, like, she's not a sexy.

[Mina Kimes]

Every female cartoon character becomes a sex symbol at some point.

[Alan Siegel]

She's not like Jessica Rabbit or something.

[Charles Holmes]

I don't know.

[Sean Fennessy]

If Chris Ryan were here, I would ask him to his face, have you ever cranked it to Marge Simpson? But he's not here, so I'm not going to ask that question.

[Mina Kimes]

That's a great. That reminds me of one of my favorite Milhouse lines. I'm going to. I wish I wrote this down where he says something about, like, you don't want to walk in on your parents having sex, especially by themselves. I can't remember where that's from. But I always think about that when I think about Milhouse.

[Charles Holmes]

You know what?

[Alan Siegel]

Milhouse is romantic. Like, you know, like, there. There's one where it's his inner thoughts, and he's like, if I do everything. If I do everything, she says she has to respect me.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, I've got to do a deep cut episode. I don't know if anybody other than Alan has ever seen this episode. It's from 2014. It's season 25.

[Mina Kimes]

Not I.

[Charles Holmes]

No.

[Sean Fennessy]

I was put onto this episode when it came out because it is about movies in the movie industry. So it's called Steal this Episode, which is a riff on the Abbie Hoffman book Steal this Book. And it's about illegal piracy in movies and how movie theaters are no fun to go inside of anymore. And so Homer decides to start illegally downloading movies and then projecting them in the backyard with Bart Simpson. The FBI becomes aware of their scam. Will Arnett plays the head of the FBI task force who comes in to bust them. It's also a classic Simpsons episode where it's got, like, mini movie parodies inside of it that are part of the movies that they're watching. And there's a very famous one that is written and performed by Paul Rudd and Leslie Mann. And it is a Judd Apatow movie. And it's like, very this is 40. And then Seth Rogen's also in the episode. Channing Tatum's in this episode. Rob Halford from Judas Priest is in this episode. It's really, really funny and really, really sharp. And it is in that third generation of the show. And it's like a good reminder that, like, they still got it. Yeah, they really still had it. At this time, I'm just not as. I don't have a Sunday appointment with the show anymore, but I could fire up and I will occasionally fire up, like, season 32 and see what they're up to. And just last night, my wife Eileen and I were talking about the show, and she is as big as. She's a bigger Simpsons fan than I am. And we started talking about, like, will our children like this and get this and like, will this endure? And I know you've been talking about that a lot on promoting the book. Like, what do you think the shelf life is for all of this stuff that we are being nostalgic about right now?

[Alan Siegel]

I think kids are into it now because it's on Disney, so they have every episode at the push of a button. And again, I talk about my friend and his 11 year old and what he has. Like, he has appreciation for season 25 episodes and season 3 episodes. And that drives my friend crazy. Cause he's like, no, it was better back then. But kids don't really have that sense of, like, the demarcation between the eras, you know?

[Charles Holmes]

So, I mean, it's also wild to me that, like, I watched the Simpsons out of order. So I was like, catching up in syndication and knowing that, like, kids are probably like, all right, we're gonna start with, like, season one. And you can do that. So much of my TV history is like, I didn't watch Seinfeld chronologically. I didn't watch Friends chronologically. It was just like I was catching up, so. But also, like, for kids, I'm just like, like, fucking vintage Simpsons merch is still so much money. You see kids where I'm like, I don't know if you've ever saw, like, any Simpsons episode, but they're like, they're still wearing the shit. It's still selling.

[Mina Kimes]

I'm like, so I, first of all, as a cast member, subscribe to Disney, check out the Simpsons. I actually had the experience of calling a Monday Night Football game in Simpsons land. Sort of cross promoting. Well, sort of definitely cross promoting the Disney thing. But through that experience, a lot of. So it was just an excuse for me to make, like, 20,000 Simpsons jokes in the span of two and a half hours, frankly. And I'm sure half the people are watching were like, this is insane. What are you saying? But a lot of people who watched it were parents and their kids. This was their first exposure to the Simpsons. And I heard from a lot of parents that after watching the game, the kids were like, this is really funny. And I was like, well, did they like the jokes? They're like, no, they didn't understand any of your jokes, but they loved the characters. And then we watched a few episodes. All of my kids, like, ages 8, 9, 10, whatever. When I first fell in love, the show just really liked Bart Simpson and Lisa Simpson and Homer Simpson. So I think the characters really are timeless, especially in terms of appealing to kids.

[Alan Siegel]

I remember one of the writers told me that basically, like, when Bart was the hit of the show, it sort of was like, he compared it to, like, when Tina Fey was Sarah Palin. Like, everything about her look, the voice, like, everything she was doing, like, there just was something there that, like, even if Bart is no longer, like, the centerpiece of the show, like, he's what launched it. And I think people maybe forget that.

[Charles Holmes]

If you can black it out and you can know, like, you can instantly.

[Alan Siegel]

The silhouette that's drawn from memory.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Charles Holmes]

And I think Bart was that first character where it's like, it takes time for Homer and time for Marge to, like, form into their characters. But it's like Bart, if you just see the spiky spikes. Okay. I know even as a kid, you know that it's like Charlie Brown. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

But, like, the simplicity of even drawing Homer is something that, like, kids would just doodle in their notebooks all terribly.

[Alan Siegel]

It's a light bulb.

[Mina Kimes]

Kids were always drawing the worst renditions of the Sims.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm sure I do.

[Charles Holmes]

LeBron James has quite Literally the greatest.

[Alan Siegel]

Yes.

[Mina Kimes]

Thank you so much for breaking this up. You know, but this is an iconic athlete art moment.

[Charles Holmes]

Every single time I see it, I laugh like it's the first time.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, my God. I'm so glad you brought that up. It is really hilarious.

[Sean Fennessy]

Let's recap our picks and then maybe do some honorable mentions of stuff that we missed before we wrap up. So since I had the first pick, I'll go first. In best episode I chose you only move twice, which is the Hank Scorpio episode. In deep cut, I chose Steel this episode. In non Simpsons family character, I took Lionel Hutton. In best joke, I chose. But why did I have the bowl Bart? In best cameo, I chose Dustin Hoffman from Lisa's substitute. And for best parody, I chose Cape Fear. Okay, Mina, what'd you get?

[Mina Kimes]

Best episode, I did Lisa on Ice. Favorite deep cut episode, I did sings from the class struggle in Springfield. Best Dom family character I chose Mr. Burns. Best joke I did. Let's just say it moved me to a bigger house. Best cameo, I did all of the baseball players in Homer at the Bat with Daryl Strawberry as the standout. And then best parody, Marge vs. The Monorail. Wow, I totally won the draft.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, Alan, what's your all in order like that really rude, Mina.

[Mina Kimes]

I mean, it's not about winning, and it's not about losing. It's just a podcast.

[Alan Siegel]

Come on, you guys, skip me. Okay, for best episode, I had Mr. Plow. For deep cut episode, I had separate vocations. For best non Simpsons character, I had Kent Brockman. For best joke, I had Bort license plates. For best parody, which I sang very poorly, I had it was a very good beer by Homer Simpson. And for best cameo, I had Peter Frampton from Homer Palooza.

[Charles Holmes]

And last but certainly least best episode, the Itchy and Scratchy and Poochie show. Deep cut, strong arms of the ma Non Simpson's character, Ned Flanders. Best joke, Ned Mattress Backflip. Best cameo, Meryl Streep in Bart's girlfriend. And best parody, Dr. Zayas. Dr. Zayas.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, what was on your draft board that didn't get taken here?

[Mina Kimes]

Best episode, I really love Camp Crusty. That's a personal fave. And then actually can't believe this. Did Last exit to Springfield not come up once in this?

[Alan Siegel]

No, last on my list.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, sorry, sorry.

[Alan Siegel]

No, no, no, no.

[Mina Kimes]

Because that I actually had in multiple best joke, Lisa needs braces. Dental point.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah, I love Lisa.

[Sean Fennessy]

Wasn't picked Dental plants.

[Charles Holmes]

Flaming Mose. I love flaming Mose.

[Mina Kimes]

Flamingos is really good.

[Sean Fennessy]

22 short films about Springfield. A Mill House Divided is a really good one. You mentioned Rosebud briefly when talking about Mr. Burns. I feel like Bart Sells his soul is a little underrated.

[Alan Siegel]

I had that on my deep cut, like, once.

[Sean Fennessy]

I feel like right on the line of deep cut. Bartcells's soul. What. Are there any other episodes that jump out?

[Charles Holmes]

Homie the Clown, Fear of Flying, Colonel.

[Alan Siegel]

Homer, where Homer's the manager. Country manager, like, you know, like Elvis's manager, which has one of my favorite jokes of all time, which is these two rednecks are going at it at a bar. And one, you know, they're like, face to face. And one just goes, hey, you, let's fight. And the other one goes, them's fighting words. Them's fighting words is Simpsons. George Meyer, who's, like, this legendary writer, would come up with these jokes that are like. Basically, you're like, how did that not exist already? Just these really simple, clean, like, not dirty at all and hysterical.

[Mina Kimes]

God have mercy on us all. Is that. May God have mercy on us all. Is that. Was that. Was there. Was that pre Simpsons at all? There's so many lines like that where I'm like, ah, did they. Did they feel.

[Sean Fennessy]

Did they invent this? Or is it a turn of phrase?

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, won't somebody think of the children? That's gotta be Simpsons first, for sure.

[Alan Siegel]

That's one. And, like, the quiet part, loud is another one that is from the Simpsons. Yeah, I think. And, like, just. Yeah, like, just calling something meh. Like, mediocre. Like, the Simpsons didn't invent it, but they pushed it into the consciousness. I didn't know the word like schadenfreude until Lisa said it went to Homer when Homer was happy that Flanders store was failing, which is insane.

[Sean Fennessy]

Couple more episodes. Bart of Darkness, which is like the Rear window one when Bart breaks his leg. It's a pretty famous one. All of these episodes are all seasons 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8. That is like the true golden era. Almost everything that we've picked comes from that time. Simpsons Califragilistic. Expelidocious. The Sherry Bobbins episode is pretty iconic. We didn't shout that out.

[Mina Kimes]

I like Mr. Lisa goes to Washington. I was thinking about that as a deep cut.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's a good one. I have three kids and no money. Why can't I have no kids and three money? It's one of my favorite Homer lines of all time.

[Alan Siegel]

So the shameless promotion that I'm gonna mention is the title of my book Stupid tv. Be more funny. It's Homer slapping the tv. Cause he doesn't like what he's watching. But the funniest part of that is he's watching Garrison Keillor on Prairie Home Companion. Which, again, I didn't know what the hell that was when I was 12. But like, the audience, you know, Keeler's doing his act and the audience is dying laughing. And that's the funniest part. It's like the writers were like, why is this funny?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, why do people like this?

[Charles Holmes]

I forget who Mo is talking to, but I'm pulling your favorite song out of the jukebox. And then someone goes, it's raining Men. Not no more it isn't.

[Sean Fennessy]

Any other things you wanted to shout out? Deep cuts, jokes, cameos, parodies that we didn't make mention of?

[Charles Holmes]

Hmm.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's impossible to be complete.

[Mina Kimes]

I was gonna mention Jon Lovitz's cameos. I like every single one of them. They're all hilarious. Artie Ziff, Jay Sherman. In the movie festival, I bet you.

[Alan Siegel]

Have probably come to mind, we talked about parodies. I mean, there's a very detailed Citizen Kane parody in the season five. And that's Rosebud and like, you know, Burns just talking about his teddy bear Bobo, like that, like, is hilarious. And again, and kids hadn't seen Citizen Kane and like, I don't know that a lot of people. I mean, it's an absolute classic. One of the greatest movies of all time. But in 1993, like, I don't know, was it still in the consciousness? I don't. I'm not sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's also just so audacious that they were like, we're doing a Mr. Burns episode. You know, like, that's another thing that most. No sitcoms really could do that. The only thing I could think of that's comparable as, like, Lost, obviously would be like, we're doing an entire episode.

[Mina Kimes]

About this person who shot Mr. Burns, which is also sort of a parody cultural event. Was a event in my house. We were like, okay, next week we're gonna find out who shot shot Mr. Burns. Who do you think it is? Like, we talked about it at school.

[Sean Fennessy]

But that in and of itself was a parody of like, episodes of Dallas and, you know, 80s shows that were on at the time, but we didn't know that. You know, we were just like, is the Simpsons the first show to ever do a multi part who killed episode.

[Charles Holmes]

But also an animated show? Like, can you imagine anything like animated on TV having that impact in 2025, like, it's like. It's, like, insane.

[Alan Siegel]

There was a special, like, a live action special before the second part of who shot Mr. Burns? With, like, John Walsh from America's Most Wanted. Like, they had, like, a casino board with all the odds that was fake. But, like, people really thought, like, oh, you can bet on this now. You probably could.

[Sean Fennessy]

But any other tertiary characters that we haven't given love to, like, I just. We haven't said Groundskeeper Willy yet today on the show, you know, so you.

[Alan Siegel]

Mentioned briefly Troy McClure. Like, and, you know, you had Lionel Hutts. Like, truthfully, Lionel huts and Troy McClure are the same characters. Like, Phil Hartman, I feel like, deserves so much credit because there were times when a good example of this is they really wanted Tom Cruise for an episode to play Bart's big brother, the Big Brother association or Big Brother organization, and Tom Cruise turned them down. And so one of the writers was like, let's call Phil. Just call Phil Hartman. He can do anything. And just Swiss army knife for the show.

[Mina Kimes]

I feel like Principal Skinner is. Has such small parts in so many episodes that are so funny and so consistent. Even Lisa's substitute, when Mr. Bergstrom comes in pretending to be a cowboy, he, because he's a Vietnam war veteran, dives. If I remember correctly, him and his crab, like, they. Yeah, he is extremely funny.

[Charles Holmes]

He's one of the more memed characters on the Simpsons, which is insane. I'm just like, wow, how did you become super?

[Mina Kimes]

The discipline, disgust looks, the reaction memes.

[Alan Siegel]

No, the children must be wrong. The line.

[Charles Holmes]

Yeah, that's also. I tried to avoid all the memes because I'm just like, how are Simpsons memes still just, like, around and people use them?

[Mina Kimes]

Apu jumping in front of the cookie mart. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I couldn't get Lionel Hut saying I move for a bad court thingy out of my head, too. And that's why you're the judge and I'm the law talking guy. You know, there's just so many things that are just like.

[Alan Siegel]

There's one, your brain that I repeat where he's like, we've drawn Judge Schneider. Like, is that bad? He's like, well, I accidentally ran over his dog. But replace accidentally with repeatedly and dog with son.

[Charles Holmes]

I think Homer says something to equivalent. I think it's home. He's like, sweet pity. Where would my love life be without it? I was like, mood.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. Do we feel like we, like, totally rung this game?

[Charles Holmes]

The Internet is going to yell at us. They're going to be like, you fucking.

[Mina Kimes]

Did you not have one of those little grass? So that. Cause that's.

[Sean Fennessy]

I handcraft those all myself. Yeah, yeah. As soon as we're done, I'm gonna start firing up Photoshop to build one.

[Mina Kimes]

Throw in a little poll.

[Alan Siegel]

Basically was my lunch table from 1992 to 1997. So it's good memories, Charles.

[Sean Fennessy]

Thank you, Mina. Thank you, Alan. Good job. Go out and buy stupid tv. Be more funny at your local booksellers. And where do they tell you to pitch it? Is it Amazon? Is it the website of the publisher?

[Alan Siegel]

Yeah, it's Hachette. They have links to any bookseller you want. Any major bookseller. Bookshop.org is another good one that will hook you up with a local bookstore.

[Mina Kimes]

So do that one if you don't want to get yelled at on Blue Sky.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, exactly.

[Charles Holmes]

It's not called Blue Ski.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

As the least assistant of the podcast, I posted his on Blue Sky.

[Sean Fennessy]

Thanks, Bart, Lisa, Homer. I've been Marge. Thanks to Nick, thanks to Justin for their work on this episode. We'll see you next time on the the Prestige TV podcast.