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The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The Studio’ Series Premiere: What Seth Rogen’s Hollywood Satire Gets Right (And Wrong)
00:57:00
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- [00:00]
Bill Simmons
This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's the White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors, Thai Iced Coffee and Pina Colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only, so for the love of coffee, go try them now.
- [00:26]
Chris Ryan
Foreign.
- [00:30]
Rachel Lindsay
What'S up everyone? It's Rachel Lindsay. And if you love all things Bravo, then you need to be listening to Morally Corrupt. Every Tuesday and Friday, your favorite ringer podcasters and I dive into Bravo's biggest moments and dish out hot and always unfiltered takes. And guess what? Now you can watch us too. That's right, Morally Corrupt is now available in video on Spotify. So whether you're listening in your family van or watching next to your white refrigerator, don't be all uncool and miss out. Catch new episodes every Tuesday and Friday only on the Ringer Reality TV feed.
- [01:11]
Andy Greenwald
Today, AT T Mobile, I'm joined by.
- [01:13]
Chris Ryan
A special co anchor.
- [01:14]
Snoop Dogg
What up, everybody? It's your boy. Big Snoop deal. Double G Snoop.
- [01:17]
Andy Greenwald
Where can people go to find great deals?
- [01:19]
Snoop Dogg
Head to T mobile.com and get four iPhone 16s with Apple Intelligence on us plus four lines for 25 bucks.
- [01:25]
Andy Greenwald
That's quite a deal, Snoop. And when you switch to T Mobile, you can save versus the other big guys. Comparable plans plus streaming respect.
- [01:33]
Snoop Dogg
When we up out of here, see.
- [01:35]
Chris Ryan
How you can save on wireless and streaming versus the other big guys. @t mobile.com/ Apple Intelligence requires iOS 18.1 or later.
- [01:55]
Snoop Dogg
Suppress these teeth Podcast you can watch on the Ringer TV YouTube channel. You can watch it as a video podcast. We cover all kinds of TV here and on the Watch with CR and Andy Greenwald as well. We have two TV pods we're covering the studio. First two episodes on Apple, which you guys liked more than me. And then I watched it again. I liked it a little more the second time, but you loved it. Not surprised. You're kind of the audience for it. But why'd you love it?
- [02:17]
Chris Ryan
I am. I wonder if I am the direct and primary audience for this show. Correct.
- [02:22]
Bill Simmons
It's a love letter to Sean Fettis.
- [02:23]
Chris Ryan
Well, it's a love letter to lovers of the movie the Player, which is a movie that we covered on the Rewatchables, an Altman movie from the early 90s about people who work in Hollywood, particularly on the executive side, and what they allow to happen and not happen on their watch. What the state of Hollywood was at that time in the 90s. And that's what this show is. It's a contemporary spin on that. Created and written and directed by Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg, longtime partners. Longtime partners. And it's a. It's a zippy 40 minute satire of something that I talk about constantly on the podcast that I'm on here at the Ringer. So I'm very interested in it. I think it's also whether or not it is connectable for other people, I think is a good topic of conversation for us. Will people get into it? Because Seth Rogen, I think, is one of the most accessible stars that we have. He's a very regular seeming guy, but this subject matter is very intricate and there are a lot of Easter eggs. What did you think? Did you like it?
- [03:20]
Bill Simmons
I love that you want to call it an Easter egg.
- [03:21]
Chris Ryan
Well, I'm doing it for you.
- [03:22]
Bill Simmons
Thank you so much. I loved it. I had the same.
- [03:26]
Snoop Dogg
Loved it.
- [03:26]
Bill Simmons
Well, I love these first two episodes. I'll say I have watched five episodes and there's like a few later that I didn't love as much as I love these first two. But I'm not quite Shawn fantasy. I don't talk about this twice a week, but it is an industry that we've all been adjacent to for a while. And there are a lot of fun, sly. I will call them references rather than Easter eggs that I don't. I'm sure I don't get all of them, but I get plenty of them. And that feels. That feels great when you're like, I know that Catherine Harris playing Amy Pascal or whatever the case may be. And I think watching Seth and Evan sort of exorcise some of their frustrations that they've had working through this industry via their comedy is really fun. So I had a great time with them.
- [04:09]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah, there's Legacy with Larry Sanders, the Player. We've seen people the late Chiff the Movie, which is a great HBO TV movie. So we've seen people kind of parrot it. And they always ramp up the Hollywood executives and make them deranged buffoons. And for some reason, Hollywood loves this. They're like, that was awesome when you fucking ridiculed us for who's Bryan Cranston supposed to be? And they do love this stuff. The big question for me is how many people are going to watch this? Because the bubble's fine. All the people out here will watch it. Yeah, I'm sure there'll Be a huge chunk of New York. But are you getting people in, like Winnipeg?
- [04:49]
Bill Simmons
No.
- [04:49]
Snoop Dogg
And are you getting people in Kansas City? And you're getting people in Houston, Texas?
- [04:53]
Bill Simmons
The only reason you might. So later, I think it's okay to say in the trailer we've seen that people like Zac Efron or Zoe Kravitz, like, people who have broader appeal than like, you know, what exactly, exactly is Bryan Cranston parodying here? Watching them play themselves might have some kind of draw to for people, but I don't think this is going to be a broadly popular show, but I think it's going to be a show that everyone who likes to talk about film and television wants to talk about.
- [05:20]
Snoop Dogg
Do you feel like it's a show Seth and Evan kind of had to do with the point of their careers? They're at where, you know, you were. It's 20 years removed from 40 year old virgin, you know, and these guys are adults. And Seth, he. He did. What was that movie with Charlize?
- [05:37]
Bill Simmons
Long Shot.
- [05:37]
Snoop Dogg
Long Shot, which I really liked and for some reason kind of came and went. Didn't do as well as maybe it should have.
- [05:43]
Chris Ryan
I'm sure that their experience on that movie informed this because that's a movie that in 1987 would have been $100 million movie and in 2019 was a $44 million movie. And most people can't remember it.
- [05:54]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah.
- [05:55]
Chris Ryan
And I said to you after I watched it, I was like, this feels like a show made by people who've been told no. But the show is about the people telling them no and trying to explore why they've been told no and what the psychology is of the people. And these are people who are studio executives. In the last five years, I've gotten to know a lot of people that are somewhat similar to the people that are portrayed in the show. And I think one of the things that I like about it is that I don't think that Seth and Evan hate these people. I think they actually have a lot of affection for them, but they know that they are basically morally compromised, that they get into the business for the right reasons, then they go up the food chain and they have to tell the people that they worship no. And what is that like? And how do you make a show about people like that? Because Matt Remick, who Seth plays, who is this sort of like high level development executive at a Paramount esque movie studio or Sony esque movie studio, who gets the big job replacing a legendary studio head like Amy Pascal and Then finally has the chance, with green light power, to say yes or no to the people that he deeply admires and wants to be close to, wants to be friends with, wants to ingratiate himself, to realizes that that's not how this business actually works, or at least has to accept that that's not how it works. And that's an interesting thing. I mean, it's very rare that you write a show or a movie about people who are kind of like the enemy to creativity, I think, in their.
- [07:25]
Bill Simmons
Minds, but have, like, I think what's so interesting about the Matt character, And I think this is what makes the show work for me because there's a lot of cringe factor, especially in the second episode. There's a lot of, like, embarrass, secondhand embarrassment, pratfall, all that sort of stuff. And that's usually something that I don't like to watch. But there's something about Matt because he is not just a craven. He is. But he's not just a craven executive, but he's a guy who genuinely does like movies and genuinely does want to make movies. Cinema that lasts. And so I'm rooting for him. And probably even as he keeps fucking up and fucking up and fucking up. And so, like, if he were just. I feel like the player is a bit more cynical on this front than this property is in terms of, like, if the system weren't the way it was then, then, then maybe we could get our real. I mean, I've been told that Mario Scorsese has been trying to make a Jonestown movie for a very long time. So like, would watch it, I would watch.
- [08:18]
Snoop Dogg
Is that true?
- [08:19]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [08:19]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah. To me, it just the. I guess my issue with it, which it wasn't as bad the second time, but this just all feels familiar to me. Oh, Hollywood. All these people are buffoons. It's so hard to get stuff done. And it just feels like generationally, this movie or show keeps getting made in some form. The parts that I really liked were the Easter egg stuff and the. Who's that supposed to Be? And oh, look at the. Look at what they're doing here. And that just like the inside baseball stuff, which also made me wonder if this is why the show's not gonna work.
- [08:51]
Chris Ryan
Well, I think there's one thing that I would recommend about it that people who just really like watching cool stuff might enjoy, which is that from a formal technical perspective, this is one of the best looking and best made TV shows I've ever seen. There's like a Big conscious choice to try to make the show with as many wonders as possible. And so there is this kind of seamless roving camera that is moving and following Matt. There's a kind of energy and a kinetic score, like a very jazzy beat, beat, beat, beat score that works really well. It keeps these 28 or 44 minute episodes feeling very vibrant and alive. Costuming is incredible. Everyone is dressed exactly like these people dress. It's kind of amazing. The Kathryn Hahn character is definitely a marketing executive in Hollywood.
- [09:34]
Bill Simmons
It's so funny because I asked people, I was asking people who work like deeper in the industry than I do. And the Catherine Hahn character was the one character that they were bumping on because they were like all the marketing execs that we know are like the, the word I got was schmurgy white guys. And I was just sort of like, okay, I don't. That the Catherine Hahn character is the one I'm like slightly bumping on.
- [09:54]
Chris Ryan
I love her and I feel like I've been in meetings with her. I, I think it's just, it's a, it's a great looking and great sounding and great like fast moving kind of a show. It kind of is trying to entertain you at all times. I think the overarching sensibility that you're talking about, which is like Hollywood is a pit and it's all about money and none of these people are actually creative, is a tale as old as time since Singing in the Rain.
- [10:19]
Snoop Dogg
Worst possible idea.
- [10:20]
Chris Ryan
Yes, that's definitely true. So it is kind of an update. And in that way it's inward looking, but it does create great art. I mean the Player is a great movie. Singing in the Rain is a great movie. So I think it's fertile ground. It's also ironic that a show that is this well made has been made for TV by a tech company and is not a movie. And I do wonder whether Seth or Evan originally wanted this to be a movie. And we're told no, which would be fascinating.
- [10:44]
Bill Simmons
It should be a movie, honestly. But like I'm. Well, having only watched part of the season, I'm excited to see where it goes. But I think that like, I think to your point, they're dressed how people dress, but there's also this like out of time element to the way they're dressing because they're so aspirationally trying to do 70s Hollywood and so like the brown suits and all that, all of that stuff is really interesting to me. And I think that like, I think there's a Virtue. I hear what you're saying that you've seen this before, but I think there's a virtue of doing it generationally and saying, what are those exact challenges now? Because when you make Koolaid, seems like.
- [11:16]
Snoop Dogg
They have the same challenges.
- [11:17]
Bill Simmons
It's not. They weren't making Kool Aid the movie in the past. You know what I mean?
- [11:20]
Snoop Dogg
So this idea that they're still making crap.
- [11:22]
Bill Simmons
They're making crap. But, like, what is the kind of crap we have to deal with now? We have to deal with Kool Aid as, like, we are. The Minecraft movie's about to come out. You know what I mean? Or, like, the specificity of a figure like Amy Pascal, who, you know, was unceremoniously kicked out of her job at a studio that Seth and Evans spent a lot of time with. I think the specificity of it is interesting to me.
- [11:47]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah, I mean, they do the cameos. There's a lot of the same playbooks. Like, Stoller comes in, he pitches something. Ron Howard's in the third episode playing, you know, and it's like, spin this version, I guess. Arlis was another show that was in this world. It Spencer a bunch of things like this. I think one of the mistakes I made. I watched the first three all in a row, and there's, like, a specific, like, frenetic energy to this that. When you said it would work better as a movie, that might be the answer. But this is not a show that you would watch. Like, I'm gonna binge five episodes of the studio. Like, this thing's like a wired. The characters are over the top. I thought Barinholtz and Katherine Hahn are just fucking going for it. Like, yeah, it's unrewatchables. It would be like a layup for the.
- [12:31]
Chris Ryan
Everyone is going big on the. On the show.
- [12:33]
Snoop Dogg
I would argue too big. And Katherine Hahn's one of my favorite actresses, but she's, like, out of her mind in the show. Like, to the point where I'm like, this is just not realistic. And then Ike was the other one that really, like, he's really going for it. Rogan is just. He just feels like he's Seth Rogen.
- [12:49]
Bill Simmons
It's funny because, like, Ike is going for it, but he's also, like, he's the straighter man to Seth Rogen going for it. And so I never. I don't think I've ever seen Ike Barinholtz play the guy who's trying to restrain someone. He's usually the guy trying. You're Trying to restrain as he's doing cocaine.
- [13:06]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, yeah.
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Snoop Dogg
And Cranston's another one. He's just fucking going for it. So I feel like they told everybody, like, just. Just bring the heat, man.
- [13:15]
Chris Ryan
Yeah. I mean, I think it's like a. A big, broad satire. So it's kind of appropriate to have these, like, outsized performances. Also. People in Hollywood are big and they're weird, and people who are in these jobs are real, like old school. Hollywood producers are performers. Like, they're all about the pitch. They're all about getting the energy in the room. I think it's interesting that this comes along at a time when Hollywood is like a little bit more buttoned up, a little bit more tech, a little bit more corporate. And it's this kind of like friction between people who came up at a time. And in theory, the Matt Remick character came up at a time in the late 90s, early 2000s, when you had a little bit of more that old school razz Mataz Hollywood feeling. And now it's much more like we're making our PowerPoint presentation slideshow to our corporate board members. And, you know, that tightening grip that it feels like is happening in Hollywood. I like it as, like, if this was an hour long show that where you were like, God, I. I hope that, like, everyone survives at the end of this season. I would not like it. I think I like it more as basically like a comedy. And it seems like future episodes are playing as like 30 minute comedies.
- [14:21]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, yeah. I wrote down Birdman score in my notes. That drum score definitely agitates you. And I could not sustain that on a long binge or a really long episode, I think. And I think that to your point, yes, people are going broad, but the reason the second episode works so well for me is someone like Sarah Polley, who's actually doing something. I think her gradual frustration is nuanced, I think, and really good. And Greta Lee as well. Like, those aren't like huge, big Pratt Foley performances in contrast to what Kathryn Hahn is doing or.
- [14:59]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah, yeah. I mean, for people in Hollywood, this is if. If they do this show correctly, this is the kind of show you love to pop on, get to be on be two, three days, get to play some version of yourself. Like, I saw Pete Berg, like, he's in the first scene. It's like, of course he was going to do this.
- [15:15]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, yeah. You know, well, like, yeah. And Paul Dano's like, there for a second and them calling on a Charlize Theron who they worked with in Longshot or a Nick Stoller who they worked on with Neighbors or Zac Efron from Neighbors. Like just calling their pals and collaborators and saying, come play yourself. It's very. This is the end of them. Like let's have a party and talk about this wild thing that we do. But also I just think like there are these little toss off lines. What was the place you cited that people might not get this? Winnipeg. Is that. Is that aiming towards.
- [15:47]
Chris Ryan
But like, well, for, for the. Seth and Evan are from Vancouver. So you know, you know, they do have a strong Canadian kiss contingent.
- [15:55]
Bill Simmons
But I think that like in the oner episode, the second episode with Sarah Pauley when Matt is trying to say, oh, she wants my notes and Sal just like tosses off. Yes. She's still a very good actress. Like, I think that's just a really funny line that might not play for people who don't even know who Sarah Polley is.
- [16:15]
Snoop Dogg
You know, I thought the pilot, my favorite part was Scorsese who has this really weird kind of acting career where he's just popped in different things. And like even he's been on SNL and every time I see him I'm always like, is this guy a good actor or am I crazy? Yeah, he's really good in the pilot.
- [16:34]
Chris Ryan
He's also one of the great actors at playing himself.
- [16:38]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah.
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Chris Ryan
Which is a weird.
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Snoop Dogg
It's almost like the Lord Michaels quality. You're playing the parody of what people think you are.
- [16:43]
Chris Ryan
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
- [16:45]
Snoop Dogg
I thought like, he's good when he's pitching the movie to Seth. He's real. That Charlie scene's probably my favorite scene in the. That whole stretch when he's like, wait a second, what's going on here?
- [16:56]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, why are you looking furtive? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [16:59]
Snoop Dogg
But just I thought he was really, really good. I thought Rogan was really good. And I've always liked him in things like this.
- [17:05]
Chris Ryan
I think he's become a really good actor. And this part in especially surrounded by all these big people, his medium energy, his like just sweaty energy is really, really good in this.
- [17:15]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah. Cuz he's. I always like him and stuff. I think he's always found a way. Found a hard way to break out of. I'm Seth Rogen. So you think about. I thought he was really good in the Sandler movie, the Blanken. What was the Funny People.
- [17:31]
Chris Ryan
Funny People. Yeah.
- [17:32]
Snoop Dogg
That was the first time you watched Seth Rogen in something and you go, there's something more here. He's not just a goofy guy with a fun laugh. And then I thought he was really good in Long Shot, even though that movie's got some flaws. But I really like that movie.
- [17:45]
Chris Ryan
Yeah. I think Steve Jobs, too, was another good example. Fableman's. He's really good in. I think he's become a very, very good actor.
- [17:51]
Bill Simmons
Great. Yeah, yeah. And I love the neighbors movies. Like, I think they're great movies, but.
- [17:55]
Snoop Dogg
If we were like Seth Rogen's manager, I don't even know what things or movies I would tell him to do other than the stuff he's done, because, you know, I don't know. Could you see him in the way back in the Affleck role? Like, there's stuff he's. You just couldn't separate the Seth Rogen from the role.
- [18:10]
Chris Ryan
He. There always has to be like a tinge of comic sensibility, I think, to the character.
- [18:14]
Snoop Dogg
Frenetic and a little like he's self esteem's a little lower than it should be and he's trying to imp people and he's funny and he's quick and he's always at his best when something's falling apart.
- [18:24]
Chris Ryan
Yeah.
- [18:25]
Snoop Dogg
Which in this show, that's basically half the show.
- [18:28]
Bill Simmons
And he doesn't play. He plays, like, eager to please.
- [18:32]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah. You always like him. You always like him and everything.
- [18:34]
Bill Simmons
Yes.
- [18:35]
Snoop Dogg
So I think this is a good thing for him. And I agree with how you said about some of the shooting, like that one scene on the table when they're going around. I don't even know how they film that.
- [18:43]
Chris Ryan
Yeah.
- [18:43]
Snoop Dogg
It almost seems like they're using like a drone where it's like a table like we're at right now, and the camera's just like flying around. It's really cool to watch.
- [18:51]
Chris Ryan
Yeah. Same with the scene when he gets the job to run Continental. And it's kind of following him down the hallway and he goes into this big art room where he meets Cranston. And then the camera's on Cranston and it's spinning around and it's following him. And there's just like. To me, that's just like very involving in the story. Like, I think some people watch something like that and feel it's distracting. Right. Because it's very showy in terms of what it's trying to accomplish. But for me, I really like perspective driven story. And especially something where you're like, you're starting to root for the character. Like, you're saying you're starting to be like, I hope this guy gets this job, he seems like not such a bad guy. And then slowly you learn like he has all these incredible weaknesses. But following him as closely as we can until he fucking tells Marty Scorsese he's not making his movie is I think one of the reasons why that formal stuff is helpful and not hurting the show.
- [19:36]
Bill Simmons
We've been talking a lot on the Watch and on the presstage feed this week about the show Adolescence, which is on Netflix, which is for hour long episodes that are oners, actual organic oners versus the virtual oners that they talked about in the second episode of this show. And the acrobatic nature of that filming is so incredible to watch the behind the scenes of how they pulled that off. And I also had that question of is this too distracting, especially for the subject matter of that show? And I think occasionally it is. But here when it's just sort of like were putting. We're putting on a show energy of this. This backstage putting on a show energy of this show, I think all of those fun camera techniques really work. And the way that they lampshaded it and talking about 1917 in the second episode I thought was really brilliant.
- [20:28]
Andy Greenwald
This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios. The Amateur. When his wife is murdered, Charlie Helen, the CIA's most brilliant computer analyst, must trek across the globe and use his only weapon, his intelligence, to hunt down her killers and enact revenge. Starring Academy Award winner Rami Malek and Academy Award nominee Laurence Fishburne. The Amateur. Rated PG13. Only in theaters April 11.
- [20:57]
Rachel Lindsay
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- [21:20]
Snoop Dogg
What did you think of the Catherine O'Hara character and performance?
- [21:25]
Chris Ryan
It's just so transparently a person that we know about that exists, I think.
- [21:32]
Snoop Dogg
But they even like weave in like she slept with people in the path. There's some stuff in there.
- [21:36]
Chris Ryan
I'm like, ooh, yeah, the Ray Liotta stuff. And how close to the fire is going?
- [21:41]
Bill Simmons
On the one hand, yes. But on the other hand, like, she's also seems so much more competent than them. I think it's like a. She's not. She like has these moments where she's like Maddie, you know, she has these like shrill moments, but at the end of the day, she's just so much more in control of what she's doing and, like, talks about how she would have held Kool Aid movie and all these other things. So I think they're giving their.
- [22:06]
Snoop Dogg
She's negotiating with them and she's crying, but ultimately she gets what she wants, and all of a sudden she's fine.
- [22:11]
Bill Simmons
So, yeah, like, the wig is Amy Pascal. The. I sent you a link of her house in the New York Times. The house is Amy Pascal's house. Like, all of this is very much her. But, like.
- [22:21]
Snoop Dogg
But how many people are getting that? So you're talking like, this is super stealth.
- [22:25]
Chris Ryan
So on the inverse for me. Well, I don't think you need to enjoy, like, understand that to enjoy it.
- [22:30]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [22:30]
Chris Ryan
I think you can just say that there was a woman who was in charge of this studio who has a kind of manic energy, but is brilliant. That was kind of what Amy Pascal was. Right. She was really hard charging, really straight talking. And she got pushed out after the.
- [22:42]
Snoop Dogg
Sony hack, which we should mention. Seth Rollin Rogan involved in the Sony hack. That part's a little weird too.
- [22:48]
Chris Ryan
And I think, like, wending some of that stuff in here is potentially very interesting. We'll see if it happens. The stuff that I didn't like is the stuff that the show needs to make it more legible to regular folks. At the very beginning of the episode, we see Seth Rogen, after he leaves the shoot, hop on the cart with Chase. Tsui wonders, and he starts, like, explaining things about the studio to this person who is his assistant, who has clearly been his assistant for a little while. They wouldn't talk that way. It's a TV show. We kind of have to over explain what Continental is, what Patty did and what her legacy was, how long I've been waiting for my shot to do this. There's something kind of unnatural in the TV of it. Whereas I felt like in the player, they don't bend over backwards to explain how the world works. They're just like, you're inside of it. Because the murder mystery was as much.
- [23:36]
Snoop Dogg
We talked about this with the content. We do, like, let the audience catch up to you, not vice versa. Don't dumb down the stuff you're doing.
- [23:42]
Bill Simmons
I agree. The sort of like, they built this as a temple beat, which is hit a couple different times in the first episode, is some of the stuff that doesn't work.
- [23:49]
Snoop Dogg
But then. But that's the thing. You're doing that. But then you're also Doing this stealth, stealth, stealth.
- [23:54]
Chris Ryan
Hardcore baseball character that.
- [23:56]
Bill Simmons
But I don't think you need to know that that's Amy Pascal. Like, there's layers to it. You can enjoy it on a different layer. You can think about what Amy Pascal did after she got kicked out of Sony, which is great stuff. Little women, challengers.
- [24:08]
Chris Ryan
She's like the most successful producer in Holly. She may be the next Bond producer.
- [24:11]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, she might even be the next Bond producer. So they're not kicking someone necessarily when they're down. They're just sort of like, here's a very distinctive woman that we came into contact with in our work at Sony, and we're going to capture this, like, odd blend of compet and eccentricity. And Catherine O'Hara, who's a master at what she does, is giving us, you know, we've been talking about her and the Christopher Guest films, like, giving us one of those classic Catherine O'Hara roles.
- [24:35]
Snoop Dogg
Mm. What did she say? What was her name in that? Cookie?
- [24:39]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [24:40]
Snoop Dogg
Oh, yeah. You've grown up. I guess here's the thing. I guess it's just my personal preference for how this stuff is done. I'm always going to be partial to the way the player handled it. Like the over the top version of it. I'm always gonna feel like it's a little bit of a bit. And I think there's Kathryn Hahn character, Barinholtz, Cranston, even Catherine Hare in that scene, which I thought she did a good job, but it's all like the ramped up, crazy version of it. Every character in this, at least the first couple episodes we watched, including Ron Howard in the third episode, is big. Is big and on tilt. And I think for 10 episodes. I just don't know if that was the right decision. But we'll find out when we keep going.
- [25:23]
Bill Simmons
I think part of it, too, is like asking these people to, you know, what Catherine O'Hara is doing with Amy Pascal is one thing, but asking Olivia Wilde, who has, like, a big reputational black cloud hanging over her after don't worry, darling, to come in. I'm not gonna, like, split, but she's.
- [25:38]
Snoop Dogg
Not at my house.
- [25:38]
Bill Simmons
My wife liked that movie, but she's in the show playing herself as a director in a later episode. And so she's decided to willingly engage with, you know, this big PR thing that happened in her career. And in order to do so, to do it huge, I think is. Is something that's more comfortable for them than to do the smaller version of that.
- [26:01]
Chris Ryan
Yeah.
- [26:01]
Snoop Dogg
But I just think it's the easier way to do it. And I. I think there was another level of this show that I think if. I personally think if it had been a little more subtle. But I also know why they did that. It's the whole point of the show is it's frenetic.
- [26:12]
Chris Ryan
Well, I think there's one other logical reason why they made this choice in 1992 when the player was being made and came out. One, you've got a guy who's much older making that movie. Altman's been through 40 years of Hollywood history at that point. Two, Hollywood is on top in 1992. Hollywood is the absolute center of American culture, whatever is being made there. And so what it can be is really more this sort of, like, behind the scenes, surreptitious vision of, like, the way that things really work. And this, like, quiet but aggressive competition happening at the executive level. Like, that's the thing that is undergirding the murder mystery in that movie right now. If you're an executive or a writer or any number of roles in Hollywood, you're like, fuck, I think it's over. Like, it's ending. There's this, like, panic and anxiety among all people who work in this industry. It's very real.
- [27:02]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah.
- [27:03]
Chris Ryan
And so I think it's pitched up in this tenor because people are nervous and they're, like, kind of afraid that they made a mistake getting into this line of work. And if you're Matt Rem and this is your big shot and you screw up, there may not be another job for you. You may have to go figure something else out to do. So I think that's why they've created this kind of, like, shaky hands version of the broad satire, which I'm enjoying but I think will rub people the wrong way.
- [27:31]
Snoop Dogg
Well, the other piece of that, they're also leaving stuff meat on the bone with just where Hollywood is now. Because Hollywood is so tech driven with some of the. Even some of the people. Think about the people. There was that story about Apple this week about them losing a billion dollars. And the people ultimately making the decision are two people that aren't content people in that way at all.
- [27:51]
Bill Simmons
You know?
- [27:51]
Snoop Dogg
So I almost wonder, like, this is.
- [27:53]
Chris Ryan
Not an Apple series, but the version.
- [27:56]
Bill Simmons
And Marty Scorsese is like, I'll take this. I'll take this movie to Apple.
- [28:00]
Snoop Dogg
Their version of Hollywood in this show, I think, is skewed toward this version of Hollywood we all grew up with in the 90s and 2000s.
- [28:08]
Bill Simmons
That's why I think There's.
- [28:09]
Snoop Dogg
I think Hollywood's a little different now.
- [28:10]
Bill Simmons
I think that's, there's that like slightly out of step of time element to it. Everything is sort of like 70s golden hour, Laurel Canyon sort of visually and.
- [28:21]
Chris Ryan
Mid century modern architecture.
- [28:23]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, exactly. And then I think that then you just inject Kool Aid into that mix because you've got Cranston doing Bob Evans, but like Bob Evans telling you to make a Kool Aid movie like that.
- [28:35]
Snoop Dogg
But can you do this if you're making the show for Apple?
- [28:40]
Chris Ryan
It's a contradiction.
- [28:41]
Snoop Dogg
I don't know.
- [28:42]
Bill Simmons
Can you make a show about the horrors of a white work, white walled workplace if you're at Apple? That's what severance is.
- [28:49]
Snoop Dogg
But here's the thing, it's true. This is a big topic on Sean's pod the last few years. Like, what is the biggest issue with Hollywood right now? What they're saying in this show?
- [28:58]
Chris Ryan
Tell me. I'd love to. I need to know.
- [28:59]
Snoop Dogg
The biggest issue with Hollywood they're saying right now is like IP driven sellout moves for whatever. I would say that's one issue. But another big issue is like what the streamers have done to movies over the last five years, which this show isn't going to.
- [29:13]
Chris Ryan
They won't touch that.
- [29:14]
Snoop Dogg
Like so you're. We're skewering Hollywood also. This is over here because we're making it.
- [29:18]
Chris Ryan
I do wonder, I think that, that, I mean, maybe this is self satisfying, but I agree with everything that you just said. And if they do touch it, then I'll be impressed. I think it's. They're basically Paramount or Sony is what this studio is. Feels like Sony, but like has the historical thing that Paramount has for the.
- [29:37]
Snoop Dogg
Huge decision makers for the most part.
- [29:39]
Chris Ryan
But they don't have their own streaming services. You know, like that's the thing. Like if this was set in the world of Warner Brothers, you'd be like, oh, well, there's Max and Max. Max intersects. Yeah, but Paramount doesn't really make like original movies for their platform. Like, it's a much smaller proposition to me.
- [29:54]
Bill Simmons
Okay.
- [29:54]
Chris Ryan
And they're also like their theatre. This is way inside baseball. But like their theatrical distribution, they used to be a major player and now they put out seven movies a year and like two of them are gonna hit and then the other five are like, God, I don't know.
- [30:05]
Snoop Dogg
That's the thing is like, is this a more interesting show if the studio is really set at Netflix or Amazon or Apple? Because they're the ones that spend the most money. No, they would never do it. But that's why when you said, would this have been better as a movie? I think the 2025 version of this show is actually a movie set at Amazon or Netflix or where they are. I'll be curious making those decisions.
- [30:26]
Bill Simmons
I've only seen five episodes. There is a lot of like nostalgic. The movies that they are making outside of the conceptual Kool Aid seem like mid level nostalgic movies that we don't really see any see made anymore.
- [30:39]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah, like even the guys watching Goodfellow. Goodfellas that the end of and the thing. That's a movie that came out 32 years ago. Yeah.
- [30:47]
Bill Simmons
You know, but that's supposed to show that like they, they love, they actually love good movies.
- [30:52]
Chris Ryan
I mean, but also Rest in Penis.
- [30:54]
Bill Simmons
Is like a great thing.
- [30:55]
Chris Ryan
We're the same age as Seth Rogen, you know, like, we are the exact same age. His reference points and his like aspirations toward a version of Hollywood that no longer exists. I think I, I don't know him, but I think we share that. And so I think that's part of the reason why I'm connecting with it. And what do I do when I go home but cozy up or show up at the Coolidge Theater in Boston and watch a movie like Goodfellas? You know, like, that's so. I think generationally, it's actually right. It's like a bunch of people that are now in their 40s waited all this time. What?
- [31:24]
Bill Simmons
I don't know if this is apocryphal, but Wikipedia, deeply unreliable, has Ted Sarandos as himself listed in the season one.
- [31:33]
Chris Ryan
Maybe they will.
- [31:34]
Snoop Dogg
So if they hit the streamer side, then this becomes fascinating on a whole other level. Because right now this is, this is the easy, easier way to do it. Where you're doing. It's like a studio and we're just shipping. We got it. Oh, there's IP and let's see. I bought Kool Aid. And the Kool Aid thing is just ridiculous enough that it's actually like really funny. And it's like, it's just plausible enough that this would happen, but it's completely ridiculous.
- [31:57]
Chris Ryan
I think what works about that is that the Nick Stoller pitch is like so perfectly what you imagine a pitch like that would be. And that sequence works so well. Yeah, you know, really dumb enough. It's just smart enough to be dumb. You know, I really, I thought that was really well written. And it's like we get green involved and yellow and scene, when CRs like, it's diversity, diversity. And it's like, I got your brother. Like, all that stuff is very, very funny to me.
- [32:21]
Snoop Dogg
Are we sure? Matt. So Matt gets this job out of nowhere.
- [32:24]
Bill Simmons
Well, he's, like, in line for it.
- [32:26]
Snoop Dogg
Well, he's in line for it, but he. He doesn't realize his boss. And then they're like, oh, this is happening. Boom. I feel like he has, like, one project in his back pocket. He's going to try to move on right away that he's. That his boss never let him make. And now it's like, this is the time to do goes really quick to, like, all of a sudden, he's making Kool Aid and taking shit. On Matt Bellaney's podcast, the Town Good podcast, by the way. I've heard good things, but I feel like there's a moment when you finally get the car keys like that. You have a couple weeks there where you're like, all right, my director that I'm close with, I'm gonna do a deal with them. Like, you start taking care of your favorites. And he never does that. He's just off making Koolaids.
- [33:07]
Bill Simmons
Well, the premise seemingly is that Kool Aid is a test of, like, if he is suited for the job, but.
- [33:15]
Snoop Dogg
He has the job, right?
- [33:17]
Bill Simmons
But Griffin Mill, this character that Cranston is playing, is like, I've got this Kool Aid ip. I want to see what you can do with it. And the implication is sort of like, if you fuck this up, it's Ike Barinholz's turn.
- [33:27]
Chris Ryan
You know what it is? It's both like, we're watching a real life version of this transpire right now at Warner Brothers. Old administration goes out. Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdy come in to run the studio. David Zaslav hires them. Here's two things that happened when they got hired. One, Mike DeLuca, who produced in Greenlit Boogie Nights, signs up for a new Paul Thomas Anderson movie. A very expensive Paul Thomas Anderson movie takes care of his guy, somebody he's worked with for 30 years. So it's what you're talking about. Also a movie that is opening this weekend. The Alto Knights is reportedly a movie that David Zaslav wanted to be in. Tough Fun for his friends. For Barry Levinson, for Nick Pileggi, this is how Hollywood works. Yes, it felt it could have happened in 92. It could have happened in 52. It still happens in 2025. So maybe there is a world where later in this season we see Matt get to take care of one of his guys.
- [34:18]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah.
- [34:19]
Chris Ryan
I'll be curious because if he's only making Kool Aid for the whole series, that will seem a little too broad maybe for how things actually work.
- [34:26]
Snoop Dogg
He's trying to get a bunch of shit done because he doesn't know if the carpet's going to get pulled out of him.
- [34:30]
Chris Ryan
Right.
- [34:30]
Snoop Dogg
So he's taken. He's gonna grab the best script he's ever had in his back pocket. He's taking care of his Paul Thomas Anderson. He's doing it all.
- [34:38]
Bill Simmons
Time is passing in large chunks between episodes because when we get to episode two, Catherine Harris character Patty says she's been on this film with Sarah Polley for a while.
- [34:48]
Snoop Dogg
Yes.
- [34:48]
Chris Ryan
But Sal is like, I've been taking care of her for four years. Which I also liked. I'm not sure that Sal is communicating guy who has been shepherding Sarah Polley Greta Lee movie for four years. But, you know, that's not that important.
- [34:59]
Bill Simmons
But like that Patty's like, I've been here for a while. So it's been like a minute since episode one. As we go into episode two.
- [35:06]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah.
- [35:07]
Bill Simmons
So Kool Aid Man. Kool Aid movie might already be in the can sort of thing or on the way.
- [35:12]
Snoop Dogg
Interesting.
- [35:12]
Chris Ryan
It's happening.
- [35:13]
Snoop Dogg
They don't really mention it yet.
- [35:14]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [35:15]
Snoop Dogg
And then the only other one I saw was the third one. And that's also not really tied to the Kool Aid Man.
- [35:20]
Chris Ryan
A different movie. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to know how much time is passing.
- [35:23]
Snoop Dogg
I have a really important question for Sean specifically.
- [35:26]
Bill Simmons
Okay.
- [35:27]
Snoop Dogg
Martin Scorsese's Kool Aid about the Johnstone.
- [35:30]
Bill Simmons
The Jonestown.
- [35:30]
Snoop Dogg
Jamestown. Johnstone, Jamestown.
- [35:32]
Bill Simmons
Jonestown.
- [35:33]
Snoop Dogg
Jonestown, Jonestown Massacre.
- [35:36]
Chris Ryan
Yeah. I would watch in a harp. You're there for Star c. Buscemi as 7:30. I hopefully they show it to me a month in advance and I can build an entire month of programming around it. As we learn in the show, one of our greatest living actors.
- [35:50]
Bill Simmons
What are the needle drops that you're waiting for in Rolling Stones?
- [35:55]
Snoop Dogg
Are left.
- [35:56]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, yeah.
- [35:58]
Chris Ryan
Can't you hear me knocking?
- [35:59]
Bill Simmons
You know, playing on the tarmac as like Monkey man.
- [36:03]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah.
- [36:04]
Bill Simmons
I'm obsessed with Jonestown. That's like a. You know, it's a Bay Area based. You know, that's one of the reasons.
- [36:10]
Snoop Dogg
It hasn't really been made in a movie yet. Tough ending.
- [36:13]
Chris Ryan
Yeah. Not. Not. Well, you know, Scorsese, a bummer. Ending is in his arsenal. Not a lot of sunshine and rainbows at the end of his movies.
- [36:22]
Snoop Dogg
It's another part of the show that I'm glad I watched it again. Maybe. Maybe I was in the. But it is funny. Like Kool Aid by Martin Scorsese. It's ridiculous, but it's not so ridiculous that it couldn't happen.
- [36:35]
Bill Simmons
I think it's so. It's such a clever turn of the script to have Scorsese come in with this Jonestown project, which apparently, like, what comes first? Them knowing that Martin Scorsese in the real world wants to make a Jonestown project. Or what if we had Kool Aid as our ip, you know, like all that sort of stuff is, I think, brilliant inside of this.
- [36:55]
Snoop Dogg
What would you. What was your Kool Aid IP idea?
- [36:57]
Chris Ryan
Oh, if I could bring any brand to the table.
- [36:59]
Snoop Dogg
No, if it was just you. They were asking you for a Kool Aid pitch. Do you have one? Did you get excited about the thought?
- [37:04]
Chris Ryan
I think there's like a movie. We've never really had a great horror movie with a tie in like that. Like, if you drink Kool Aid, like there's a really low budget movie called the Stuff that's about this yogurt that like takes over the world. Yeah, like Kool Aid transformed. Like drinking Kool Aid transformed you into something. I don't want to see a movie with a Kool Aid, man. That's fucking weird.
- [37:21]
Snoop Dogg
But they bought the IP rights, which means they could do anything they want or they're trying to do right by Kool Aid.
- [37:27]
Chris Ryan
I was also.
- [37:28]
Bill Simmons
Well, they will. I mean, when you have the IP for something like Kool Aid. I'm not going to tell you anything you don't already know. You are want you want when you make Barbie. You want to make a movie that is interesting but also will sell more Barbies.
- [37:39]
Snoop Dogg
But I'm so. I'm sure you want to make it be like, here's your Barbie ip. Could you make like a massacre movie about Barbie? They probably wouldn't have flown.
- [37:47]
Bill Simmons
That's what I'm saying. You want to sell Barbies, you want to sell Kool Aid so it can't be poisonous Kool Aid.
- [37:51]
Chris Ryan
So Kool Aid is owned by Kraft, which owns everything, which owns many food products. So I think part of the genius of Stoller's pitch is like, you can build out the world of craft products. Velveeta, also owned by Kraft. That gets a mention.
- [38:04]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [38:05]
Chris Ryan
You know, there is a kind of synergistic quality to the way you'd make that movie that is very. I totally agree with you. I think it's really clever the way that they set up that first episode, the Casey.
- [38:14]
Snoop Dogg
I mean, yeah, because I'm supposed to be rooting for Matt. Right. He's the hero, but Matt also has no ideas.
- [38:21]
Bill Simmons
You don't have to root for Matt. I'm just saying, like a character.
- [38:24]
Chris Ryan
Yeah.
- [38:24]
Snoop Dogg
I'm saying technically on the show, it's. Seth Rogen is playing our lead Matt, and I think I'm supposed to be rooting for him.
- [38:31]
Chris Ryan
I will say, like, are you rooting for Tony Soprano? Are you rooting for Walter from Breaking Bad?
- [38:38]
Snoop Dogg
We can't talk about Tony Soprano because Joanna's number six.
- [38:41]
Chris Ryan
Right. So Tony Soprano is the lead character in a series called the Sopranos. It was on HBO in the late 90s.
- [38:46]
Bill Simmons
I don't think that Matt Remick is an antihero. I don't think he's a golden era of a TV antihero.
- [38:50]
Chris Ryan
The first thing we see from him is he bursts onto the set of Peter Berg's new movie starring Paul Dano, and he sweatily introduces himself to Paul Dano and tells him he loves his directing and Paul Dano could not give a fuck.
- [39:02]
Bill Simmons
But, like, that's endearing in a way.
- [39:04]
Chris Ryan
It's also like this guy, first of all, I say this with all self awareness. This guy is a loser.
- [39:10]
Bill Simmons
Oh, yeah.
- [39:10]
Chris Ryan
He is not cool.
- [39:11]
Bill Simmons
No, I'm not saying he's cool, but that's not an antihero. Like, Tony Soprano's cool. You know, Walter White is cool.
- [39:17]
Chris Ryan
He's a big dad from New Jersey.
- [39:19]
Bill Simmons
You know, is he cool like people have.
- [39:21]
Snoop Dogg
Joanna, you're not allowed to talk about.
- [39:23]
Bill Simmons
I'm allowed to talk about anti heroes as golden age.
- [39:26]
Chris Ryan
Don Draper is cool. Don Draper's cool.
- [39:28]
Bill Simmons
Don Draper is cool. And like, Matt is such a loser that, yeah, I do want to root for him. But there's also. There's the character of Quinn, his assistant, who he promotes. And what's interesting on this show is that a friend of mine pointed this out to me. Frida Perez has a, like an EP credit on this show. And we're like, who is she? She's former Seth Rogen assistant.
- [39:48]
Chris Ryan
Yeah.
- [39:48]
Bill Simmons
That he, like, promoted to EP on this show.
- [39:51]
Chris Ryan
I'm sure she's a big inspiration for Quinn.
- [39:53]
Bill Simmons
I think that's cool.
- [39:54]
Snoop Dogg
What do you think that Paul Dano Peter Berg movie was, you think it was like, were they making it for Amazon Prime?
- [40:02]
Chris Ryan
I have to assume that the guy who shot Paul Dano in that scene is Mark Wahlberg. You know, it's just. Just given Berg's directorial history.
- [40:09]
Snoop Dogg
Like a one last job gone wrong. Is it like a horror movie? I kind of get a feel for the genre.
- [40:14]
Chris Ryan
I love a Peter Burke horror movie. If you want to tell Pete, you should do that.
- [40:17]
Bill Simmons
How'd you feel about Patty dropping a line from that movie at the end of the episode and Matt not clocking in at all?
- [40:25]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, it's a good question of like, does Matt really. Is he really in the work? Is he really well suited to this or not?
- [40:32]
Snoop Dogg
Well, that. But that's. That's part of like, why I'm really interested to see where the rest of it goes. Because it's. I can't tell if Matt is somebody that ultimately we're going to be like, what a fucking idiot that guy was. Or if there's like. It seems like he loves movies. Yeah, right. Maybe he was over promoted too high. Doesn't seem like he really has any ideas yet. He stumbled into every piece of every episode we've seen so far. So what are we.
- [40:57]
Bill Simmons
Does he need a big win?
- [40:58]
Snoop Dogg
What are we trying to say about Matt? What's what. What are. What are supposed to be my feelings about Matt?
- [41:04]
Chris Ryan
What are they trying to say about people in this job? I would guess at the end of the day that they don't really like people like this because they don't make anything.
- [41:14]
Bill Simmons
Do you see any Tom Rothman in the mix here?
- [41:20]
Chris Ryan
I don't know.
- [41:21]
Snoop Dogg
He. Library for the people in Winnipeg.
- [41:23]
Bill Simmons
Who's the head of Sony?
- [41:25]
Chris Ryan
Tom Rothman's the head of Sony. Longtime studio chief. Ran Fox for many years. One of the old school studio chiefs. Very values theatrical over other things. Likes the big easy win is something that he is known for pushing forward. I don't know if there's quite a character because the Bryan Cranston character who is also called Griffin Mill, which is Tim Robbins character's name in the Player. And the idea of it being the same Griffin Mill is amusing. I wonder if they went to Tim Robbins for this. Cranston's really big. He's wearing jewelry and necklaces and he's.
- [42:04]
Bill Simmons
Wide lapels.
- [42:05]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, he's very, very over the top.
- [42:08]
Snoop Dogg
I didn't like the Griffin Mill thing.
- [42:10]
Chris Ryan
Okay.
- [42:11]
Snoop Dogg
Get Tim Roberts if you're doing that.
- [42:14]
Chris Ryan
Yeah.
- [42:15]
Bill Simmons
You like, stay off my. My. My sacred cow that is.
- [42:19]
Snoop Dogg
Altman's not alive anymore, right?
- [42:20]
Chris Ryan
No, he's not alive.
- [42:21]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah.
- [42:22]
Chris Ryan
I wonder if because Griffin Mill is a murderer, maybe they felt like this was just another guy named Griffin Mill, you know, spoilers of Lair.
- [42:31]
Bill Simmons
No, I'm just kidding.
- [42:31]
Chris Ryan
That's 20 minutes. If you haven't seen the Player, go check out the Player. I have seen the Player, not you, of course.
- [42:37]
Snoop Dogg
The Player and Larry Sanders were both a lot more subtle with some of this stuff. They were a lot. There was a lot of people feeling each other out and it was their version of Hollywood. This is just big and big and bombastic.
- [42:50]
Bill Simmons
Did you ever watch the Ricky Gervais show Extras?
- [42:53]
Snoop Dogg
I did. I wasn't a huge fan.
- [42:54]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I wasn't like a huge fan of it on a week to week, but certain people showing up to play themselves is incredible.
- [43:01]
Chris Ryan
David Bowie in that series. Yeah.
- [43:02]
Bill Simmons
Great. Kate Winslet talking about what you need to do to win an Oscar. And then she did exactly that to win her Oscar.
- [43:08]
Snoop Dogg
I think it's really hard to pull off the celebrity cameos because spoiler alert. Like episode three with Ron Howard. I didn't think it was. I didn't think he was good.
- [43:15]
Chris Ryan
That's funny. You didn't love it either. I really liked episode three.
- [43:18]
Snoop Dogg
I just felt like, oh, watch this Ron Howard. We're gonna flip it. Everyone says he's the nicest guy. It's like, all right, I see this coming down the highway.
- [43:25]
Chris Ryan
I was really more into the Anthony Mackie who's not really having the best 2025, but I really. I enjoyed what he was up to. Well, people will get to that when they get. I think that whether or not Matt is a likable hero is ultimately immaterial because all of these kinds of movies are about whether or not this is a good place to be creative or not. And I think we're going to find.
- [43:47]
Snoop Dogg
Out at that point. Don't we already know the answer after all these attempts we do with TV shows and movies, ultimately they all land in the same place. Like, yep, creativity loses and dumbass people win.
- [43:59]
Chris Ryan
Was Larry Sanders likable?
- [44:02]
Bill Simmons
I find Matt likable. And I think it's because people are constantly, like making fun of him and putting him down, that he's just got this underdog spirit to him. And he's not an asshole. Like, he. He makes asshole moves for his job. But I, But. But feels tremendously guilty about it. Like, I do not fundamentally think he's a soulless character. And I think that's a hard, hard thing to pull off. And Rogan, that's something he really excels at.
- [44:27]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah, I thought Larry Sanders was more realistic.
- [44:30]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, it is.
- [44:31]
Snoop Dogg
I think the characters on that show, I mean, Hank's one of the great characters of all time. The sidekick but this we'll see with this one.
- [44:38]
Chris Ryan
I wouldn't say that's the most subtle character of all time, Hank.
- [44:41]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah, no, but it's just that whole concept of the sidekick who just secretly hates himself and.
- [44:46]
Chris Ryan
Yeah.
- [44:47]
Snoop Dogg
Has a huge ego when he doesn't. Like, there's like, some really good stuff in there.
- [44:50]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, yeah. RD2 is not. Not. These are not subtle characters. I think that world is a little dingier.
- [44:56]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [44:56]
Chris Ryan
Smaller. And it felt very like really almost literally behind the curtain. Whereas this is like boardroom culture going on. Set of big productions.
- [45:05]
Snoop Dogg
It's a slightly more elevated Les Grossman Tropic Thunder.
- [45:08]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, it is. It is. That's a good comparison.
- [45:11]
Snoop Dogg
Performances. What was the last thing that really tried to dive into this world? I was trying to think about this because there's been pieces of it and there's always been, like, the Tropic Thunder.
- [45:21]
Bill Simmons
Moments and unbearable weight of massive talent, which is not about the boardroom, but is an incredible actor playing themself and artistic selling out and all of that was a tremendously great movie.
- [45:35]
Snoop Dogg
What about that Lisa Kujo show, the Comeback? I never watched that show.
- [45:38]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, that's definitely the mix.
- [45:39]
Snoop Dogg
A lot of this stuff, right?
- [45:40]
Chris Ryan
Yeah. I think Argo is in this vein as well.
- [45:46]
Bill Simmons
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
- [45:47]
Chris Ryan
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. More historical, but sure, it's a good movie. It's a great movie.
- [45:53]
Bill Simmons
Hail Caesar. Also historical.
- [45:55]
Chris Ryan
Yeah. No, there's one. Oh, the Disaster Artist, I feel like is an interesting example. This was kind of a forgotten movie because of James Franco being deleted from our culture. But speaking of Seth Rogen.
- [46:04]
Snoop Dogg
But have we seen James in season one?
- [46:07]
Chris Ryan
I don't think so.
- [46:08]
Bill Simmons
Maybe. Maybe I'll get a Dave. If you're lucky.
- [46:10]
Snoop Dogg
We're definitely getting Dave.
- [46:12]
Chris Ryan
Well, for your consideration, that was the other Christopher Guest movie, right?
- [46:15]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [46:17]
Chris Ryan
Not as successful.
- [46:19]
Bill Simmons
Can we. Before we go.
- [46:20]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah.
- [46:21]
Bill Simmons
Can we talk about Krumholtz? One of my favorites of all time.
- [46:23]
Chris Ryan
He's super funny.
- [46:24]
Bill Simmons
I think he's really funny in this.
- [46:26]
Snoop Dogg
Go ahead. What do you want to say?
- [46:27]
Bill Simmons
David Krumholtz shows up to play this agent and is just, like, going a mile a minute. And I feel like we're in a little Krumholtzance after Oppenheimer, et cetera. And I just have always loved him, and I want nothing but the best for him.
- [46:41]
Snoop Dogg
Can I give you my biggest gripe of the whole pilot?
- [46:44]
Bill Simmons
Please.
- [46:45]
Snoop Dogg
You can't bring Charlize out of the bullpen and play her music and get the crowd fired up. For her to get the ninth inning save and then she's got one line and she's out.
- [46:54]
Bill Simmons
Do you think it's the last we see of her this season?
- [46:56]
Snoop Dogg
It better not be. Is my, my point. If you, if you could play the Charlize card for literally a cameo.
- [47:03]
Chris Ryan
But what isn't it literally? Mariano Rivera coming out of the bullpen base is loaded, 6:2 game.
- [47:08]
Snoop Dogg
I needed her like, is like, like she's, she buddies with these people. You gotta like play that card hard.
- [47:15]
Bill Simmons
I think what's interesting and I, I'll, I'll be curious to see how much we're getting like a season long arc, like how much they're able to shuffle these episodes however they want. If there isn't a ton of continuity between, like, if we aren't checking back in on the Kool Aid movie, in that case you can be like, okay, we're. We're gonna come out hot with Scorsese and Charlize Theron and blah, blah. And then episode two, we've got Greta Lee and Sarah Polly, which is just like not for Houston, Texas or Winnipeg, you know what I mean? And sort of like calibrate the level of. Because then you've got Ron Howard and then you've got Zac Efron, you've got Olivia Wilde. Like, what level of, you know, mega favor are we pulling in to do?
- [47:54]
Snoop Dogg
I just wish I didn't love the Greta Lee episode, but I wish that second movie had been. I just think they should have been a parody of like Fast and Furious or one of those type of franchise. Like a franchise movie that's in like its 11th installation and the stars hate each other. Maybe they'll go their way down the road.
- [48:12]
Chris Ryan
In the, in the, in the future in this series, there is a maybe not quite Fast and Furious, but an event movie, an IP movie. Yeah.
- [48:18]
Snoop Dogg
I want to start getting into that, into that world where it's like, oh, they're doing, they're doing fast.
- [48:23]
Chris Ryan
I mean that would be just a more realistic portrayal than like a mid budget Sarah Polly movie set in the 50s. A lesbian drama. That's what it's supposed to be.
- [48:31]
Snoop Dogg
That movie is just not being made anymore with. Not in the big.
- [48:34]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, it's at a 24. Yeah.
- [48:36]
Bill Simmons
So I suppose Sarah Polly is like, I won my Oscar. Let me do this.
- [48:40]
Chris Ryan
You know, on a movie that I believe was Greenlit by Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdy before they left MGM. Right. That was what women talking was. So, you know, every once in a while one slides in have you seen every episode? No, I've only seen. But it's funny the way that you described it at the beginning of our conversation, because I have a very vivid memory of this. It was the. When the fires hit in Los Angeles, we left town, and I was like, you know, bored and concerned like everybody else in the city of Los Angeles, and trying to find anything to distract myself. And I powered through five episodes in one night, which, as you guys know, as a TV watcher, that's like doing cocaine. That's not something I do. I can't watch more than two consecutive episodes of TV because I find it kind of enervating. And this was the opposite, I think, because it's not like, oh, they're really stringing out what's gonna happen next. It's not one of those shows. It's contained. The drama of each episode is what entertains you. It's not like, oh, my God, I hope they get this project off the ground. We'll have to tune in next week. So I think I was kind of relieved to not have a show like that. And weirdly, that propelled me forward with it rather than holding me back from it. But I realize I'm not a normal TV watcher.
- [49:43]
Bill Simmons
You hate continuity.
- [49:45]
Chris Ryan
Well, I don't know if that's the word, but I don't.
- [49:46]
Bill Simmons
I hate long arcs.
- [49:47]
Chris Ryan
I don't like a long arc.
- [49:48]
Snoop Dogg
So is Matt, like, is he dating? What's going on? Matt?
- [49:51]
Chris Ryan
I wondered that too.
- [49:52]
Snoop Dogg
Is he, like. I needed like, a Raya. Like a Raya reference. This is gonna be so great for my Raya. Like, there's some subtle stuff that I just didn't like. Is he fucking his assistant? Like, what. What's going on with him?
- [50:04]
Chris Ryan
The 1995 version of this. It would. That's harder to get away with now in storytelling and in the business.
- [50:10]
Snoop Dogg
Tinder moment with him. Like, what's happening with Matt?
- [50:12]
Bill Simmons
He should be on Raya.
- [50:13]
Snoop Dogg
Is he a Heidi Fleiss, 2025, whoever Heidi Fleiss is now. Client?
- [50:19]
Chris Ryan
Sure. Kind of like in a Nora situation or.
- [50:21]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah. I don't know.
- [50:22]
Chris Ryan
I wonder if they'll get to that. I wonder. I think him and Sal cozying up at the end of a long day together to watch Goodfellas.
- [50:31]
Bill Simmons
Seth loves a bromance.
- [50:33]
Chris Ryan
It's a bromance.
- [50:34]
Bill Simmons
That's his feeling.
- [50:35]
Snoop Dogg
I just don't feel like 40 year olds are hanging out at Listen in the morning watching Goodfellas.
- [50:42]
Chris Ryan
And I will call you next time.
- [50:45]
Snoop Dogg
You watch a movie. The CR at 12:30 at night. Just the two of you.
- [50:48]
Chris Ryan
I. I mean, for me, I'm like, who are these people? I have a small child at home. No one does this. So if you have kids. And that's the thing. These are. These are childless people also. And so they can afford to watch Goodfellas at one o'clock in the morning. I can't.
- [51:00]
Bill Simmons
What about the la. Like, the restaurants? They're going in and out of the. Like.
- [51:04]
Snoop Dogg
So that Burbank restaurant, that's. That's a really good movie location. They. Oh, yeah, it's called the. I think the Smokehouse. It's almost like they made that. First of all, it's a big studio steakhouse restaurant, but it's also like a great. It's like Musso and Frank's. It's like one of those great.
- [51:19]
Bill Simmons
Is in a later episode.
- [51:20]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah, I'm sure it's Dantana's. I'm sure Dantana's is coming at some point.
- [51:23]
Chris Ryan
Smokehouse is not the one across from Warner Brothers.
- [51:26]
Snoop Dogg
I think it's right in that mix, but it's a pretty famous one.
- [51:30]
Chris Ryan
Will you keep watching the show?
- [51:32]
Snoop Dogg
I think I will. I'm probably gonna stick to one at a time because I think it's a lot. Yeah, it's like, you know, it's like a double espresso you don't want to have. I wouldn't have two, but when are.
- [51:46]
Chris Ryan
We gonna get the live. Bill tries cocaine for the first time.
- [51:48]
Bill Simmons
Pod and what should be the movie?
- [51:53]
Chris Ryan
I don't know.
- [51:54]
Snoop Dogg
While talking about blow, Joanna finishes the Sopranos for the first time. I just do blow as she gives a review.
- [52:00]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, just one line.
- [52:02]
Snoop Dogg
I'm just, like, cutting it up. Like.
- [52:03]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, one more inducement to watch the Sopranos. That's the best one yet.
- [52:08]
Snoop Dogg
All right. The studio. You can find it on Apple. Great TV stretch right now. Best we've had in a long time.
- [52:12]
Bill Simmons
Absolutely.
- [52:14]
Snoop Dogg
Well, after the writer strike is over and people have a little more money.
- [52:17]
Chris Ryan
To spend, what do you have your eye on? Like, what are you. Like, when's Bill Simmons coming back to TV podcasting?
- [52:23]
Snoop Dogg
Well, we. We farmed out the last of us to House of R and to Midnight Boys. I think the next prestige one. And I don't know if I'm going to be involved, but it's that your friends and neighbors.
- [52:36]
Chris Ryan
Oh, yeah, John.
- [52:37]
Bill Simmons
Apple.
- [52:38]
Snoop Dogg
There's some good buzz on that one. Yeah, but you never know with prestige tv. It's surprises. Like, who knew adolescence was coming? And that turned out to be the best show. Of the year so far.
- [52:46]
Chris Ryan
Netflix to their credit.
- [52:47]
Snoop Dogg
They said the basketball for Rob and Joe. Like, we gotta fucking have this now.
- [52:51]
Chris Ryan
What's up with Joe's usage rate? Like, are you thinking about maybe some saving her for the playoff stuff? Because like, this is really an all time high. Like, I don't know how she's alive right now.
- [53:00]
Snoop Dogg
When. When Joe's in la, everyone wins.
- [53:03]
Chris Ryan
Okay.
- [53:04]
Snoop Dogg
It's great. And she's like a starting pitcher that can just go out every couple days.
- [53:10]
Chris Ryan
240 innings this year. Yeah.
- [53:12]
Snoop Dogg
Just throw innings.
- [53:13]
Chris Ryan
No load management for you. You are just. Yeah. Starting five days a week.
- [53:17]
Snoop Dogg
Do we have.
- [53:20]
Chris Ryan
The Mega Blush. Wow.
- [53:22]
Snoop Dogg
Do we have. What do we have for like Ringiverse era stuff coming?
- [53:27]
Bill Simmons
Not only Last of Us, but Andor which rules do you watch Andor.
- [53:31]
Snoop Dogg
No, but it's the one if I. If I watch andor looks good.
- [53:36]
Chris Ryan
I do think you would like that one.
- [53:37]
Snoop Dogg
Very good things.
- [53:38]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. And then there's a new Game of Thrones show, Night of the Seven Kingdoms.
- [53:41]
Snoop Dogg
When's that come out?
- [53:42]
Chris Ryan
Date on that?
- [53:43]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, it's. I think it's June. I think that's right.
- [53:45]
Chris Ryan
Whoa, that's soon.
- [53:46]
Snoop Dogg
That's going to be after the NFL draft. It's like. Mal, what are you up to? I'm doing my rewatch of all Game of Thrones episodes and rereading 19 books to get ready for this new show that might not tie into any of it at all.
- [53:59]
Bill Simmons
It's the best.
- [54:00]
Snoop Dogg
Yeah. Maniac. Sean, great to see you. Joanna, great to see you as always.
- [54:05]
Bill Simmons
Wonderful.
- [54:05]
Snoop Dogg
Thanks to the crew. Prestige TV. Check it out on Ringer Dash TV on YouTube or you can watch his video play. Thank you.