The ‘Veronica Mars’ Episode That Got Us Hooked

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast: “The ‘Veronica Mars’ Episode That Got Us Hooked”

Date: September 3, 2025
Hosts: Joanna Robinson & Rob Mahoney

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Episode Overview

Theme:
Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney continue their "Hooked" miniseries, which showcases not the most obvious introduction ("pilot") episodes, but rather the episodes of a beloved TV show that truly get people obsessed. This week, they focus on the cult classic Veronica Mars—specifically, Season 1, Episode 14: Mars vs. Mars. They unpack why this episode is the ideal entry point for new viewers, discuss the show’s lasting legacy, key character dynamics, and its influence on TV storytelling.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why "Mars vs. Mars" Is the Episode That Hooks You (10:46–15:19)

• Not the Pilot: While Veronica Mars has an efficient pilot, it’s filled with exposition (“Wikipedias you on the premise” [03:02]) and lacks the spark that makes the series addictive—especially the dynamic between Veronica (Kristen Bell) and Logan (Jason Dohring).
• Why Ep. 14? This is where Logan and Veronica first work together, chemistry begins to sizzle, and the show truly becomes itself:
  • “This is the first episode where these two characters are working together...it is just undeniably crucial to the show.” — Joanna [14:14]
  • The episode features a prominent guest cast: Adam Scott (as Mr. Rooks), Leighton Meester (Carrie Bishop), Christina Lakin. It exemplifies the show’s knack for guest stars who later become household names.
  • The narrative runs parallel: sexual misconduct scandal at school and Logan’s search for his (possibly dead) mother—both storylines reflect big themes of trust, privilege, and truth.

2. The Mythos of Veronica Mars (07:40–10:18)

• Origin Story: Created by Rob Thomas (not the Matchbox Twenty singer!), originally pitched as a male lead YA book, but UPN wanted a “female empowerment” vehicle post-Buffy. Hence, Veronica Mars was born.
• Buffy Heir: A spiritual successor to Buffy, “the idea of being constantly underestimated because she is a teenage girl is central to her ability to then be a really good private detective.” — Rob [08:45]

3. The Core Relationships (12:08–14:45)

• The Key Triumvirate:
  • Veronica Mars (Kristen Bell): The sharp, acerbic PI-teen who’s equally convincing as a vulnerable outcast and an unstoppable sleuth.
  • Keith Mars (Enrico Colantoni): Her disgraced sheriff father, now P.I.; their bond is “lights out...so funny, so endearing.” — Rob [12:08]
  • Logan Echols (Jason Dohring): Initially written as incidental; their explosive chemistry changed the course of the show and became its emotional anchor.
• “The central love story between two teenage characters…is a chemistry between two actors so irresistible…it is something they didn’t intend.” — Joanna [13:08]

4. Veronica’s Fallibility and Growth (16:43–19:03)

• Veronica isn’t always right; her flaws, stubbornness, and missteps (“Veronica is very wrong until she’s right”) make her human and drive authentic stakes.
• This episode is a textbook case: She sides with the teacher (Adam Scott) against a female accuser, misreading the situation due to her own biases.
• “She is just an inherently ‘I charge after the thing I think is right’ kind of character to my detriment again and again. And that’s honestly fascinating to watch.” — Joanna [18:09]

5. The Power and Danger of Fan Reception (15:35–15:46, 57:28–59:24)

• The Veronica-Logan romance became so powerful it almost broke the show:
  • “It becomes like a monster to a certain degree…when you get to the part where we’re kickstarting a movie or the season four reboot, all anyone wants to talk about is Logan and Veronica.” — Joanna [15:19]
• Fandom’s investment got both a reward (Kickstarter movie!) and a backlash (season 4 finale’s twist—Logan’s death). The hosts dive into how this dynamic defines the show’s reputation and fate.

6. Guest Star Showcase (19:03–22:29)

• Veronica Mars is a treasure trove for “before-they-were-stars”: Adam Scott, Amanda Seyfried, Jessica Chastain, Tessa Thompson, Taylor Sheridan, Paul Rudd, Kristen Ritter, Michael Cera, Paris Hilton, etc.
• “The Adam Scott element here as a first-time viewer is like, ‘Whoa, Adam Scott’s on this show and he comes in with an absolute bang.’” — Rob [19:03]

7. What Makes Veronica Mars So 2000s? (37:32–39:52)

• References and aesthetics: puka shell necklaces, skintight scarves, “blown out blue filter flashbacks,” Paris Hilton cameo, lines about “a jungle tribe that worships Donald Trump’s hair.”
• “There is a line about that there’s a jungle tribe that worships Donald Trump’s hair. That’s a line in this episode.” — Rob [37:32]

8. The Art of TV as a Reactive Medium (28:56–30:55)

• Showrunner Rob Thomas was deeply plugged into fan reaction (TV Without Pity days), actively letting the audience influence storytelling spines (“I was such a slut for it that I would read the message board reactions...so by the time it aired…on the West Coast, I already knew how everyone felt.” — Joanna, [28:56])

9. Notable Scenes That Capture the Series (34:50–36:05)

• Logan and Veronica Banter: Their first collaboration as reluctant allies, exchanging quips that ping between hostility, attraction, and pain.
  • “I mean, we’re not exchanging friendship bracelets.” — Logan [31:32]
  • “I’ll stop braiding.” — Veronica [31:33]
• Keith & Veronica’s Father-Daughter Dance:
  • The “ink splatter safe” scene, where Keith outsmarts Veronica while teaching her a lesson about being careful—highlighting their dynamic mix of mentorship and affection.

10. The Intricacies of the Pilot vs. Later Episodes (41:52–49:22)

• The pilot functions as an “information dump,” introducing layered flashbacks and heavy voiceover exposition.
• Hosts recommend tracking down the DVD version, which includes a cut “stakeout” cold open that captures the show’s noir energy—lost from streaming versions.
• “It’s fun to watch her do her thing. That is Veronica Mars. It is fun to watch her do her thing.” — Joanna [48:06]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Show’s Unstreamability:

  • “Rob and I both own this show on DVD because that’s the kind of people we are.” — Joanna [02:15]
  • “Hulu. How dare you?” — Rob [02:29]

• On Guest Stars:

  • “The Adam Scott element here as a first-time viewer is like, ‘Whoa, Adam Scott’s on this show…’” — Rob [19:03]

• On Veronica’s Flaws:

  • “As you laid out in terms of our picking this episode, most crucially she’s extremely wrong.” — Rob [17:20]

• On the Dandy Warhols Theme:

  • “The opening theme, the Dandy Warhols, lights out from minute one…just like, okay, we got it.” — Rob [52:08]

• On Outdated Fashion:

  • “For the last 10 minutes of the episode, Kristen Bell is wearing the world’s skinniest scarf, which is the kissing cousin to the puka shell necklace.” — Joanna [39:05]

• On Ending of Season 4:

  • “At the end of the eight episodes of the fourth season of Veronica Mars…Veronica and Logan get married, and then that same day, he gets blown up and is killed. And the fandom was so mad about this.” — Joanna [54:45]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Premise of “Hooked” & Veronica Mars Fandom: [00:18–02:15]
• Veronica Mars—Origins & Legacy: [07:40–10:18]
• Why “Mars vs. Mars” Is THE Hook (Logan/Veronica dynamic): [10:46–15:19]
• The Double-Edged Sword of Show-Defining Chemistry: [15:19–15:46]
• Veronica’s Flawed Heroics: [16:43–19:03]
• All-Star Guest List & Casting: [20:01–22:29]
• Iconic Scenes & MVPs (Favorite lines, ink splatter safe, “Who’s your daddy?”): [27:20–36:05]
• 2000s Zeitgeist (Puka shells, velvet tracksuits, early cell phones): [37:32–39:52]
• The Pilot: Strengths, Flaws, Best Version: [41:52–49:22]
• Theme Song Appreciation: [52:08–52:39]
• The Consequences of Fan Power—Season 4 Spoilers: [54:22–59:24]

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Additional Insights

Veronica Mars in Context

• The show stands at the crossroads of late-teen drama, noir detective storytelling, and early internet-age fan engagement.
• It foregrounds flawed, yet empowered women (and men), class and privilege conflicts, and “found family” relationships.
• Everything from blue-washed flashbacks to witty, quotable script establishes its era and enduring appeal.

Enduring Legacy

• Veronica Mars is the reason we have “Kristen Bell, star,” and its fan community (“marshmallows”) still shapes how TV cultivates loyalty.
• The response to Logan’s exit in season 4 further cements how much the show’s “chemistry monster” could both elevate and burden its narrative.

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Final Thoughts

For the Uninitiated: The hosts convincingly argue that "Mars vs. Mars" is the true gateway episode—where the series’ dark wit, charisma, and irresistible chemistry (especially between Veronica & Logan) finally explode.

Memorable closing:
“It’s fun to watch her do her thing. That is Veronica Mars.” — Joanna [48:06]

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Listener Call to Action:
Send thoughts to [e-mail]—especially if you have feelings about Veronica Mars, Logan Echols, or want to weigh in on the age-old question: is Veronica Mars a teen show, a detective masterpiece, or something that simply refuses to be one thing?

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Summary by The Prestige TV Podcast Summarizer — for all the marshmallows past, present, and future.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[B]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[A]

We're here with another installment of Hooked, our end of summer, early fall little miniseries that we have decided to do about some of our favorite seasons of television. Today we're talking about Veronica Mars.

[B]

Have you heard of it?

[A]

Have you heard of it? Listen, we did some huge, massive ringer core shows in Breaking Bad and Mad Men. And then it was like two for y', all, one for us. This is a very Joe and Rob coded show. So that is why we're here to talk about Veronica Mars.

[B]

Step very carefully because this is a big show to a certain subset of people, which includes us. Joe, like, this is as big as it gets, certainly for teenage Rob and really just for Rob in general.

[A]

Excellent. If you have not listened to any of these Hooked episodes, here's what we do. We're here to talk to you about the episode that is not necessarily the pilot of a TV show that you would show to someone, a friend, a loved one, et cetera, to get them hooked into a show you like. Because sometimes the pilot isn't the episode that's going to do it. No. So we're here to talk to you about some alternative options. Though we might have an exception that proves the rule coming up on this series sometime soon. What do you want to say about the premise of the show, Rob? Anything else before we get into specifics of today?

[B]

The premise of Hooked or the premise of Veronica Morris?

[A]

Oh, no. Of Hooked. Did I cover it? Did I do it?

[B]

I think you covered it. And I will say in this particular case, very resonant for me because I would say throughout my lifetime to this point, this is the show I have tried to pitch to the most people and failed spectacularly. I just can't. I cannot push Veronica Mars up people's cue to the point that they will actually even give it a chance. And so I think part of our exercise today is, look, if they were going to watch the pilot, they would have done it already. What is the alternative way in we can give them to become Veronica Mars fans, to become proper marshmallows.

[A]

We have a slightly tougher assignment today because Rob and I both own this show on dvd because that's the kind of people we are. This is not available to stream anywhere for free.

[B]

I was devastated.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Hulu. How dare you?

[A]

You can know they have the new, new season, which we'll talk about in a second, but you can buy episodes on your streaming, favorite streaming platform of choice. But you cannot just like stream it for free. So that's going to be a barrier of entry for some people. But I do want to. Before we get into sort of the specifics of Veronica Mars, I want to mention one email we got from a listener sort of about this concept. We've gotten some feedback on our Mad Men Breaking Bad episodes of people who vehemently disagree with us or agree with us. It's a. It's a sort of touchy subject for people.

[B]

Well, and Joe, where. Where did these people email us?

[A]

Prestigetvpotify.com I believe is where they could find us.

[B]

Always, perpetually we are there. You know, I just want to keep the lines open, you know, the lines of communication. Especially in Hooked season. This is very important.

[A]

And we've gotten a lot of people who are really eager for us to cover a show that we actually do plan to cover before the end of this little news series. So this email comes from listener Sam, who has emailed me for years across various shows and always is something very clever to say. But he wrote, I feel like we have so many. You got to get to blank conversations about shows today. Because pilots are so strictly written to be so sold and have to do so much legwork, they rarely get to be the kind of show they want to settle into. Sometimes they are diamonds and perfectly lay out the energy direction of a show. Mad Men, oftentimes they are Wikipedia articles for everything you need to know about the show in order for it to get loose. Weird to have fun later. Sam sent us that email before we did our Mad Men episode. So that's fine. But listen, I think this idea of this is a Wikipedia article for what the premise of the show is. Could not better describe the pilot of Veronica Mars. So we are not going to be picking the pilot today. We're gonna be picking a later episode. Veronica Mars ran on UPN from 2004.

[B]

2005, may it rest in power.

[A]

And then it became the CW and Veronica Mars wrapped up its third season in 2006. It was then kickstart crowdfunded into a 2014 film.

[B]

If I can raise my hand, I was among them.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

I helped to kickstart this movie. I still have my honorary T shirt as such.

[A]

Do you. Does it say like I'm a marshmallow? What does it say?

[B]

No, it just has a nice little stylish Veronica Mars logo of her in her car with her camera. It's lovely.

[A]

Love it. And then it was rebooted on Hulu in 2019 for an eight episode season four so controversial that it's almost impossible to Google literally anything about the show without hitting a wall of articles about the season four finale.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Which we'll talk about in our Uber spoiler section at the end of this podcast here today. Rob Mah, you already teased that this is an important show to teenage Rob. Do you want to give us sort of the log line? What is Veronica Mars about and what did it mean to you when it first came on?

[B]

I mean, Veronica Mars is a genuinely amazing detective show that happens to largely take place at a high school. And because of that look, the Nancy Drew looms large. And we're just kind of trying to overcome the barrier to entry. But if you can get past that and we would encourage you to do it, and that's what we're here to do today. It is sharply written and stylized and well acted. And I think one of the hallmarks of Veronica Mars is how insane so much of this cast is in retrospect and the talent they were able to bring into this little UPN show, it just turns into something that is so funny and so emotionally resonant and honestly actually seeks to tackle some very real societal problems and societal difficulties. And it's like it has a lot to say about class, it has a lot to say about high school, it has a lot to say about Kristen Bell being a star. And a lot of the reason we live in our current Kristen Bell ruled climate is because of Veronica Mars.

[C]

This episode is brought to you by NBA 2K26. A favor to my sons and me. All right, quick break. NBA 2K26 stacked this year. Gameplay new motion engine smoother catch and shoot. The rhythm shooting is dialed in. My team added the W. So now you can get Caitlin Clark pulling up from deep. Larry Bird talking trash mid game. Jokic casually dropping triple doubles. It's absurd in the best way. My career has a whole new storyline. The city's tighter and you're on the court way faster. I've been playing video basketball games. I think the first one was early 80s. I'm stunned. Like when I. When I go and my son's playing with his friends and I go in and I barge my wound and I start playing with them. I'm just amazed by how good, how detailed all the games are, how they really look like NBA players. 2K26 is finally here and yeah, it is absolutely loaded. If you care about basketball even a little, you're checking it out today. Ball over everything. This episode is brought to you by prime prime delivery is fast. How fast are we talking? We're talking a cooler for your snacks, a folding chair, a Bluetooth speaker, and a six pack of your favorite seltzer. Delivered by tomorrow. Fast. Oh, yeah. Extra napkins, last minute guac bowls, backup phone chargers, even a replacement route. Fast. I feel like I've ordered all those things. We're talking everything you need for game day. Fast, fast. Free delivery. It's on Prime.

[A]

This show is created by Rob Thomas. Not that Rob Thomas. No relation, who also did Party Down. He was a writer on Dawson's Creek. He did iZombie in which they had the other Rob Thomas guest star. This is a show that, you know, you and I are huge Buffy Vampire Slayer fans, of course. Like in every way. Sort of an honorary continuation of the Buffy the Empire Slayer legacy. It was originally meant to be a YA book that Rob Thomas then turned into a TV show. Originally, he was going to do a young. A young boy, like a high school boy who was the son of the sheriff he was pitching around. He wanted this to be an FX show. This is what we constantly hear at HBO show Showtime Show. He brought it to UPN and they said, hey, man, we're looking for female empowerment to go with our recently acquired Buffy Vampire Slayer. And he's like, have I a show for you? It's about a teenage girl. And immediately then it became, I don't know what the Instead of Ronnie Mars game. Veronica Mars. And that is the show.

[B]

What's so crazy about that is this would be an unrecognizable show if you gender swapped Veronica Mars. Like, it's a totally different show. Obviously, so many of the plot threads would read totally differently, but her, I mean, it's so crucial in the text. Not unlike Buffy of this. Like, what do you expect of a teenage girl? And the idea of being constantly underestimated because she is a teenage girl is central to her ability to then be a really good private detective. Even though she's like 16 years old.

[A]

Even though this started as a YA book and became a UPN and then CW show. I would not call this a show for teenagers, even though teenage Rob loved it. I loved it as a just out of my teenage years person. A few years out of my teenage years. But the writing is so sharp and so clever and. And the central relationship between the character of Keith Mars, who was a former disgraced town sheriff, now a private investigator, and his daughter Veronica is, I would say, not the number one most important relationship on the show, but it is the number Two. And it is very, very important. And it's just, as you said, like, the fact that Amanda Seyfried is here as, like a background guest star throughout season one of Veronica Mars is completely wild. And the enjoyment that you get out of the many guest stars who show up on this show is part of the fun. The episode we picked today, season one, episode 14, Mars v Mars, has Adam Scott.

[B]

It does Leighton Meester, a Gossip Girl. Pre union.

[A]

Yeah, pre union. And Christina Lakin from Step by Step, which maybe not as important to other people, but here it is. Here she is. And this is a story by Rob Thomas, teleplay by Jed Sadel and Diane Ruggiero and directed by Marcos Sega. And it aired February 15, 2005.

[B]

Yikes. Just big time yikes.

[A]

Spoiler warning. Up through episode 14, I should say. And in a second, I'm going to make Rob defend why we picked an episode so late in the season. This is the one where Adam Scott plays a charismatic teacher accused by Leyden Meester of having sex with a student and potentially worse, owning black silk bed sheets. It's not worse. That's okay. And this is also the one where Veronica is very wrong until she's right. Yeah. And quite crucially for our conversation today, the one where Logan and Veronica really start working together for the first time to find out what happened to Logan's mom, Lynne Echols, played by future Real Housewife of Beverly Hills, Lisa Rinner. So that is what we're talking about today, Rob Mahoney, 14 episodes into season one. That's like two seasons nowadays. Two seasons of a given show. How do you defend that we picked an episode so late in the season?

[B]

I would say a couple things. One, look, this is a show that does have a good pilot. It is a little bit of a Wikipedia entry of a pilot, but it does a decent enough job of setting up all of the major kind of players and mysteries in a pretty economical fashion. I have a lot of respect for it, but because it's taking place earlier and you alluded to one of the most crucial relationships on the show, it doesn't have a lot of Logan, as we come to know Logan in it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that is Veronica Mars. And so it's like, for me, look, there are three reasons why this show works the way it does. In other hands, it could have been an absolute disaster if it was a little less well written, if it was a little less well acted. Like, it could have been a joke. Could have been an absolute joke of a show. The reason it is what it is. I think overall, Kristen Bell as Veronica Mars. Like, that performance has to work. Enrico Colantoni as Keith Mars. Lights out. So funny, so endearing. Their relationship as father and daughter, critical to the show. And Jason Doring as Logan, like that triumvirate is what elevates this from run of the mill teen show that would be watched and forgotten and maybe memeified in 20 years to one that like, you can revisit over and over and over and over and it will always feel like an enriching experience.

[A]

I'm not sure I'm making my case for this not being a teenage show. To say the most important thing about this show is the central love story between two teenage characters.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

However, it is a chemistry between two actors so irresistible that it. It is something that they didn't intend. They cast Jason Doring to play sort of like a one and done kind of guy. And this is. This is might be what Hooked winds up being. Which is like the way in which tv, the best of tv, can be a reactive medium. Right. And so, and especially in this era when it was 22 episode season, you know, a 22 episode season, they start shooting it and they're like, oh, Logan and Veronica, that's firecrackers. And it was episode, I think they say in interviews, episode four, that they figured that out, essentially. And so they're like, okay, guys, we're going to take a hard pivot off of our intended path.

[B]

All these other would be boyfriends. Bench em.

[A]

I'm so sorry to you, Duncan Cain. We're gonna take a hard right turn and we're gonna figure this out. We're gonna. We're gonna pitch it at the end of the season, though, because we want to draw it out a bit. But that is where we're headed. And this is the first episode where these two characters are working together.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it is. It is just undeniably crucial to show it is part of what makes season one, I think, one of the most perfect seasons of television. And then I think season two is really strong. And then things are shaky and shakier from there, in my opinion. But the thing about Logan and Veronica Mars. Logan Echols, Veronica Mars is it's a. When you're a TV creator and you find something that. This. That. That is this magical, it is so hard to know how to use it correctly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they did their best to sort of like draw it out a will they. Won't they find all these different ways in which they could keep that Tension going and then sort of like similar to famously shows like Cheers or Moonlighting. Like once they didn't know what to do with it, the show kind of stalls out. And not only that, the relationship winds up swallowing basically kind of the rest. It becomes like a monster to a certain degree. So that when you get to the part where we're kickstarting a movie or when you get to the season four reboot they did on Hulu, all anyone wants to talk about is Logan and Veronica.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

And that's, you know, it's something that I am like definitely guilty of, but it's something that I like. It's a, it's definitely a double edged sword when you find something that is this sort of like TV heroine and then you OD and are strung out on it. You know what I mean?

[B]

That frankly, like burns that hot, that it is all consuming in that way. And it's very dangerous. Not just from a plotting perspective, but for character. Like any character who you try to make the next boyfriend or the next girlfriend or just kind of put in that orbit, ends up looking really lame by comparison. Ends up being hated by comparison. Like you just have this gravitational pull of the audience that then is. It does make it hard to do everything else. I think Veronica Mars overall, as you said, still has a lot of great success operating within that relationship and somewhat in the shadow of it at times, but it's not perfect. And there are the times where you really feel the absences of that relationship and especially early in the season when Logan is drawn before that kind of chemistry starts clicking as a little bit more of just like a high school asshole. The absence of damaged, wounded puppy dog Logan, also crucial. And that's, I think especially what you get in Mars versus Mars is you're getting a sense of this very wounded person who then, okay, you're peeling back the asshole layers. You're peeling back like the tough guy, popular kid into something that more closely resembles an actual person.

[A]

I know our assignment here is to not make it harder for people to get into or enjoy Veronica Mars. But I will say, as far as like things you have to come back from. And this is an archetype that always works for me. It works for me on Lost. It works for me on Buffy Vampire Slayer. Like it works for me on all these shows. These like blonde assholes who show up and then you have to be like, oh, I see what you're doing here. You're a character on an arc. I understand. I love a character on an arc. However, orchestrating bum fights is one of the hardest things a character has had to come back for. And that is. That is something that Logan Echols had to grapple with in season one.

[B]

Not his finest moment, to say the least. But honestly, I think what Veronica Mars really shines is there are a lot of characters who are doing deeply likable things, who are enchanted with an incredible amount of wealth and privilege because their families and just are squandering it, or immune, don't have a sense of where they are or belong in the world, and are just operating like impulsive teenagers doing impulsive teenager things. And the show has a lot of latitude for that, including for Veronica, who, as you laid out in terms of our picking this episode most crucially is extremely wrong. And I think that's another reason why this episode works so well, is like, if we're gonna set up our precocious teen detective who is incredibly charismatic and incredibly likable, you also have to allow yourself room to understand that she is gonna make the kinds of mistakes that teenagers will make.

[A]

But what's great about a character like Veronica Mars, because this is a show that has always sort of wanted to be go as dark as it can possibly go inside of a UPNCW shell and then does figuring that out. But it doesn't. It doesn't in that, like, Veronica Mars is a character even as she then goes to college and then we meet her as an adult later in the series, like, is always fucking up and making the wrong choices. And that is part of her appeal. So it's not just like teenage fumbling. It's like she is just an inherently I charge after the thing I think is right kind of character to my detriment again and again. And that is honestly fascinating to watch, especially inside of what Kristen Bell does with that character, because you're always rooting for her, even though she is quite often making the wrong decisions, you know.

[B]

But so you have that fully drawn character in Veronica who's as just as good of a central character as we've seen really of many shows over the last 25 years or so. You have these core relationships, I would say, you know, her and Keith and her and Logan in particular, really anchoring it and anchoring the episode that we've chosen today. And then I think the guest star, recurring star element is another reason why I wanted to do Mars versus Mars specifically. Like the Adam Scott element here as a first time viewer is like, whoa, Adam Scott's on this show and he comes in with an Absolute bang. As the cool quote. I say heavy air quotes, cool, fun teacher doing his exercise in history class, almost instantly being accused of having an inappropriate relationship with a student. It's like, bam. We are going to very intense places, very serious places. There's a plot accelerant and it's with people that you know. And I think if you run through the list of the people who just like appeared in an Adam Scott like capacity on Veronica Mars, I would like to read for you some of these names.

[A]

Joe, I'm ready for the Oscar winner.

[B]

I mean, you mentioned Adam Scott and Layton Meester here. Amanda Seyfried. Obviously she's recurring. She has a secret, a big one. I'm sure you've heard about it. Jessica Chastain.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Taylor Sheridan, who now also runs the world. Tessa Thompson, Paul Rudd, Anthony Anderson, Max Greenfield, Armie Hammer, Kristen Ritter and Aaron Paul. You know, just Breaking Bad all over the place. Allison Hannigan, Michael Cera, Aaliyah Shawkat. Paris Hilton very famously appears in an early episode. Kristin Cavallari, Jonathan Taylor Thomas, Jane Lynch, Dianna Agron, our beloved charisma Carpenter. A lot happening in the guest starring and returning cast of Veronica Mars.

[A]

The Paris Hilton episode, which is episode two, which I did rewatch for prep here, is truly wild. Like I was watching episode one, I was like, let's let it run. I was like, wow, Paris. I remember, I distinctly remember the Paris Hilton episode when it like aired. Where we were as a nation, when Paris Hilton was a guest star in Veronica Mars.

[B]

And where were we as a nation, Joe?

[A]

Oh, it's tough. It was a really tough time for us as a culture. A lot of like juicy couture velour sweatsuits on display here. I think Adam Scott specifically who like shows up, he had done party down with Rob Thomas obviously, so he's like in the family, had yet to do Parks and Recreation, is rocking some real early aughts hair in this episode is perfect casting for this. Oh yeah, because this is before he was like lovable Ben Wyatt and Adam Scott has always done this thing where he's played with like lovability and darkness and all this other stuff like this. And so this idea that Veronica Mars in 2005, an episode where Veronica Mars is just like immediately on the side of the, of the dude, despite being herself someone who was sexually assaulted. And that is a main plot line of the season. But she's immediately like, I'm not going to listen to this young woman who's accusing this dude. I on his Side, her dad has to be the one that, like, this young woman deserves to be listened to. And she's like, nope, she's a gossip and we don't have to listen to her. I'm team the teacher didn't do it until the. The Mick Jagger and the black silk sheets. Enter, enter the conversation. Cannot believe. I mean, of all the improbable things that happened this episode and an episode of television I truly enjoy. Imagine you're Adam Scott and you have just by the skin of your teeth been absolved of something you definitely did do.

[B]

So sorry, Adam Scott's character, Mr. Brooks, in this show.

[A]

Mr. Brooks, okay, Mr. Brooks has been absolved of this thing that he definitely did do. And the teenage girl who helped you get away scot free comes over to your house and then you try to seduce her, try to do the thing that you did that got you in trouble in the first place. No, no patience, no window here. Just like immediately, bam, let's put on the Rolling Stones and get the black soaked side two.

[B]

Straight to side two. No hesitation. No shame. I mean, the hubris of this kind of exact kind of guy. And I think Adam Scott's portrayal of somebody who kind of like has always has a very innocuous excuse for everything. Every piece of evidence is levied against him. It's, oh, it was this. Oh, it was reactionary parents. Oh, is that like. Again, it's like a very recognizable figure and one that I think as you're watching it, one thing I was blown away by revisiting this episode is like, it's pretty clear as a viewer fairly quickly what seems to be happening, which is Veronica being very wrong. Keith is presenting compelling evidence a quarter of the way through the episode that's not quite smoking gun, but there are serious holes in this guy's story and the episode is playing out in parallel. This is another reason why I think it's a great choice in terms of creating the sort of entry point for people, for Veronica Mars is it's this story about Mr. Brooks and this student. It's this story about Logan and his mom. And I think Logan and Veronica on sort of parallel journeys of coming to accept something they really don't want to believe is true. And I think the way that those are played in parallel, while also here's some Lily Kane murder stuff, here's what's going on with Duncan stuff like there's so many mysteries being juggled at the same time, and yet the central stuff never feels like it's getting short shrift. Like, you still feel the push and pull of everything that's going on with Veronica and Keith.

[A]

Something that they talked about a lot in interviews in terms of crafting season two, is that Chris and Bell is in almost every single scene of season one of Veronica Mars. And that's true. And when you look at this story, which has an ABC plot, right, the Mr. Brooks sexual misconduct plot, you've got the Logan looking for his mom plot. And then you've got the Lily Kane murder mystery plot, which is burbling underneath the whole season. ABC plots all have Veronica at the center of them. And in the pilot, which we will talk about in a second in terms of, like, why we didn't pick it, has has ABCD plots. It's a lot happening, all featuring Veronica Mars at the center of it. So, like, this is something that the show learns. Like, we cannot exhaust our young actress to this degree in, in future seasons. In terms of like, is this a typical episode? Yes, I would say so. It is a, like the main. The A plot is, you know, something happening at the school to a student. That is classic Veronica Mars. In terms of the characters represented here, as you already mentioned, like, you know, Logan is heavily involved here. Keith is heavily involved here because it's Mars v. Mars. Keith is on one side, Veronica's on the other. So there's that. The gang's all here except for Mac, but she was not a main character in season one. And Dick and Beaver, all not main characters. She's not in the pilot either. She is like it kind of. On rewatching season one, it's sort of surprising to me actually how little Mac is used because she is such an important to me character going forward and.

[B]

To the Internet, you know.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. The net, as she would probably call it. This episode is brought to you by Pretty Litter. Keeping your house clean when you've got a cat is no easy feat. But with Pretty Litter, you don't have to choose between a fresh house and a healthy cat. This litter is practically magic. It's low dust, controls odors, and lasts up to a whole month. But the best part, it monitors your cat's health every time they use the box. Plus, Pretty Litter ships free right to your door. So no heavy bags to carry and no last minute pet store runs right now. Save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy at Pretty Litter.com prestige that's PrettyLittleitter.com prestige to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. Pretty Litter.com Prestige Pretty Litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. C site for details this episode is.

[C]

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[A]

Only at the Home Depot do you have an episode. The honorary Bill Simmons mvp. Who won the episode trophy? Who would you give it to?

[B]

It's Keith Marsh. Yeah, he's extremely right. He's on it. He has to jump.

[A]

The girl deserves to be heard.

[B]

The girl deserves to be heard. He is on it. We really can't say enough about this performance and this character because yet again, it's just one of those things where the show does not function without him in that capacity. And I think the pilot also does a very good job of setting up Keith as being very funny and like, you already get a sense of his relationship with Veronica, but not as effectively as you can over the course of a full season. It's just, it's not all there yet, but the warmth is there.

[A]

I would say that his line in the pilot, which is, tonight we dine like the lower middle class to which we aspire, is one of my favorite Veronica Mars lines.

[B]

Very good. I mean, the repetition of who's your daddy? Is also very good. Like, honestly, every Keith Mars line is a banger and a winner and his own arc throughout the course of the show in this season, as you said, a disgraced sheriff who's been run out of that job and run into all kinds of infamy as a result of trying to do his job and sometimes failing and sometimes succeeding. It could anchor its own show. And so it's always great to feel like with a show like Veronica Mars, it's like, yes, we are spending so much time at Neptune High, but there is this whole world of stuff happening in the background. And sometimes that world involves the police department, sometimes it involves like high rise condominium, sometimes it involves Joe, you and I are deep neck deep in motorcycle gang culture lately. It's huge in Veronica Mars as well.

[A]

PCHers are very important in terms of like picking a scene that and see from this episode, talking about how it embodies the show. I'm have to pick a Veronica and Logan's scene just because of everything we said about that. And something I wanted to add to that conversation is to say it's not just that TV itself can be a receptive medium. It's not just a reactive medium. It's not just that TV is a reactive medium, especially inside of a 22 episode season. But Rob Thomas himself, in interviews has talked about how plugged in he was. You know, this comes out in 2005, Television Without Pity, the very important TV recap TV message board website, genuinely really starts going 2002. And he talked about how he would read it religiously, that he. He was like, in an interview I was watching, he would say I was such a slut for it that I would read the message board reactions when the east coast. When it would drop on the east Coast. So that by the time it aired here in California on the west Coast, I already knew how everyone felt about the episode. So this is someone who's just like in deep in television without pity culture. This is a time when showrunners would just sort of like, hop on the television without pity message boards. It was just like a real pivot point in terms of, like, the power of the fandom to directly interact with the creators. And so I would say the Logan and Veronica stuff, which comes out of not just something that the writers were observing, but something that viewers were observing as well as undeniable thing dovetails into what we get in this episode is we get Veronica and Logan on a case. There's like, you know, fun banter with them in the police station. Logan loses his temper. That's very iconic and classic. But I would say, again, this is.

[B]

The bump fight guy. You know, like his temperament is what.

[A]

It is when he comes back between sort of between we're on the job scenes, there's a he comes into Mars investigation, sort of a little contrite for losing his temper. But he comes in swinging with sort of like an STD joke, says he avoids buildings with stained glass. They banter about tabloids. You know, she's like, he's like, this is what I'm paying for. She's like, I didn't know. I didn't realize you were paying for this. Right. He says, I mean, we're not exchanging friendship bracelets. And she says, I'll stop braiding. Right. So they're on this, like, tentative edge of something. Yeah, but it's just like constant back and forth between these characters. That is Very like Buffy, Vampire Slayer, Whedon esque in its nature. But. But I think that sort of tentative. What are we. Are we friends or is this just a job? And the fact that he's trying to figure out what happened to his mom, his mom has like allegedly killed herself by jumping off a bridge. And he says, no way, that can't be true. Meanwhile, another side plot of this very busy season of television is Veronica Mars trying to figure out what's going on with her mom. And so it's just like a very. It's a. They gave Logan a story that would be a key inside of Veronica Mars sympathies, despite all the shit that he does at the beginning of this season. And it works really, really well here.

[B]

For her and for us. You know, I think a lot of it too. Like, you know, Logan may not like a stained glass window, but the stained glass of Mars Investigations, the like dancing lights off of the pool outside of Veronica and Keith's apartment that kind of pour in through the windows. Like there's. They have to reuse the same locations over and over and over. Neptune High gets a ton of play. Mars Investigations gets a ton of play. And yet you bring it some life for scenes like that with the way you dress it up. And just by being a little bit inventive with those sorts of trappings. I think Veronica Mars does that consistently all across the board. It's like, how do we take something very worn in and familiar? How do we take this, like, asshole guy, like, very sharp teenage girl? How do we make that pairing feel different and new? Now the actors are bringing all that chemistry that, as you mentioned, was undeniable and irrepressible. But there's also just the way that they're deployed in the show. And I think a lot of that comes through here in terms of putting Logan through the paces emotionally, of having to confront his mother's potential suicide over and over and over with every new shred of evidence that is saying maybe she did in fact commit suicide. And like, seeing that version of that guy who in the actual pilot is mocking Veronica for her own mother's alcoholism be worn down by the process is just like, that is what you make TV for. Like, for those sorts of, like, slow, like, pounding the rock, gradations of change. Like, that's what it's all about.

[A]

That's what long form storytelling is about. Absolutely. I do want to mention really quickly, we haven't mentioned he's barely in this episode, but Weevil, a very important. You mentioned the biker Gangs. I just want to say his line in this episode when Logan.

[B]

He almost stole. He almost won the. Who won the episode with this one line.

[A]

He lose a puka shell when Logan storms out of the cafe is just like a top tier. He lose a puka shell is a top tier commentary on this character.

[B]

You were either there to understand the puka shells or you weren't. And if you're. If you're too young to understand the. I say literal chokehold that the puka shells had on people, I don't pity you. You're better off.

[A]

I would say specifically the Logan Echols type.

[B]

A real Logan Echo, but honestly, a Duncan Kane type as well. Really? Really. The whole Milieu.

[A]

All the 0niners.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you have a scene that you want to nominate that you feel like sort of typifies the series?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, if you're hitting Logan, Veronica. I got to hit Veronica and Keith. And for me, it is the ink splatter coming out of the cracked safe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Establishing Veronica and Keith as, like, for one, Veronica is exactly the kind of person who would be smart enough to know because of everything her dad has taught her, someone's gonna write down the combination to basically anything somewhere within range of that thing. And Keith is smart enough to know that he taught her that and that she will look for it and has established this elaborate bit just as a means to teach her a lesson on something that she should already be picking up on and further kind of entrenching us in the fact that Veronica is so deeply wrong about Mr. Brooks. Like, she has just been told all this information that should sway her. She goes to the safe anyway, trying to crack it, trying to get inside this girl who has accused Mr. Brooks's diary instead gets, you know, just, like, ink splattered all over her, and yet still wants to continue trading notes, still wants to try to prove Mr. Brooks innocent. And I think the fact that Veronica is that wrong and that irrepressible at the same time is part of what makes that character so great. And the fact that Keith just wants to, like, warn her, but also teach her a lesson with a bit of great dad, just great dadding.

[A]

Keith has got some great dadding and some not so great dadding, I would say, inside of this episode. A thing that I'm missing in this episode is a scene where Veronica really, really reckons with how wrong she was and how she was unwilling to listen to, like, a young woman, even though, like, Carrie Bishop is covering for Susan Knight. And there's all these Hoops. And she does sort of. She sort of apologizes to Carrie Bishop and Carrie's like, fat lot of good that does me now. She sort of apologizes to Susan Knight a little bit while pressuring her to report on the case, blah, blah. And when she sort of apologizes to Keith, which she doesn't really, he says, if I were in trouble, I would want you on my side. Which is just like a very gentle, kind thing to say to your daughter, who has been royally fucking up for many days in a row here.

[B]

All right, I will say, too, Leighton Meester, I think, is quite good in this episode.

[A]

Oh, yeah, she's great.

[B]

And all of this, again, pre Gossip Girl, so we're not even coded except by just Leighton Meester's general disposition to read her as like, oh, this is like a, you know, again, pardon the just direct rip, but like, kind of a gossipy bitch, but, like, plays this really cleanly, really straight in a way that turns out to be, like, quite sympathetic, obviously, given the circumstances. But I think it's like a. A pretty good guest starring performance from her as well.

[A]

I really agree. What is the most 2005 thing about this episode?

[B]

I have so many Kuka shells aside, there is a line about that there's a jungle tribe that worships Donald Trump's hair. That's a line in this episode. We're just going to throw that out there. Visually speaking, I do think for Veronica Mars overall, in terms of the way the show is shot, the very, like, washed out, blown out blue filter flashbacks, extremely early 2000s stuff that we just. We just don't make TV like that.

[A]

Anymore, which we kind of OD on in the first episode. Oh, yeah. If you were to pick one color to represent Veronica Mars.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

What color would you pick?

[B]

I'm trying to reach for it. I don't. What do you have?

[A]

I can't tell if I'm being influenced by the CW logo, but I really do think it's that lime green, which was like, so distinctive of the era. The color of my imac at the time. Yes, it's the color of Veronica has, like stained glass on her bedroom window. That is that lime green. That lime green just like pops up all over the place. I will say the phones in general.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I was watching this episode and someone came in while I was watching it and they were aware of Veronica Mars, but they thought it was a more recent show until they like get out the sidekicks or whatever it is like somewhere halfway through the episode and they're like, oh, my God, when did this take place?

[B]

I also thought it was a more recent show until I looked into the dead expanse of time. I was like, whoa, this has been a minute.

[A]

It's been a minute. There's a weakest link reference in this.

[B]

Episode, and it's from somebody who's supposedly cool.

[A]

Very cool. Again, supposedly a Kid Rock reference. And I will say for the last 10 minutes of the episode, Veronica, Chris, and Bell is wearing the world's skinniest scarf, which is the kissing cousin to the puka shell necklace. So that's. That's what I would say is the most 2005 thing about this episode.

[B]

The fashion of Veronica Mars is what it is. I'm glad that by this point in the season, we have gotten away from the pilot era. Kristen Bell haircut or Veronica Mars haircut, which was not her best look. They've settled into something, but it is still inescapably mid 2000s. There's still, like, a lot of chokers, a lot of vests, a lot of, like, weird plaid pants. There's a lot happening.

[A]

A lot of argyle.

[B]

A lot of argyle.

[A]

The note I wrote about her haircut in the pilot is it looks like she had her haircut by an angry lawnmower that was listening to Dirty by Christina Aguilera. Dirty with a lot of ours in it. Okay, how does this episode set up the rest of the series? I mean, I just would say the Logan and Veronica of it all. Obviously, Veronica chasing down incorrect leads is just going to be a hallmark of her entire life. Carrie Bishop, we should say, comes not played by Leighton Meester, comes back in the Veronica Mars movie as a Susan Knight. So, you know, Carrie Bishop could have been a big deal. Like, they wish they could have had Leighton Meester by that point. A lot for Carrie Bishop.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Yeah. What else would you say it sets up for the rest of the series?

[B]

I think it's just those key relationships, mostly. The early stages of Veronica Mars in season one are so much more driven by Veronica operating an individual case, chasing other leads again with other supporting cast members. The one person we haven't really talked about who is not represented here just in much volume, is Wallace. He's, you know, in the episode, but not really in the episode. That's. That's a, you know, a shame as far as giving you a fair representation of what the show is and, like, who Veronica's key cast members around her, like, what the actual ensemble looks like. But the core representations are all there, I would say, not just Logan And Veronica, not just Veronica and Keith, Veronica and Neptune. And like, the broader kind of high school ecosystem is obviously something really important to understand. I think this episode establishes that stuff as well as any of them do.

[A]

The other thing that I had forgotten, this episode ends with a. An Abel Koontz button, right. Where Veronica goes to visit this guy who's in jail for Lily Kane's murder. I forgot how hard they stepped on the Hannibal Lecter gas with Abel Koontz.

[B]

It's to the point of even almost doing a Clarice Starling accent.

[A]

Accent. Yeah, it's. It's.

[B]

There's a lot happening in the show. This is another thing, though. It's like if you are looking for television entertainments that are naturalistic in origin and make you feel like, oh, this is how real people talk, this is not the show for you. This is a show where an entire gaggle of high school girls know every word to. Don't stand so close to me.

[A]

I did write that down. All those 0 niner girls know every word.

[B]

Every single word. And that's just what the show is. And we're gonna have, like, line by line references to the outsiders. You know, it's just like, there's just gonna be things like that that happens and are really enjoyable and are kind of feeding into the feel of the show. But look, it's a gumshoe detective show more than it is a high school show. And it has that sort of like, Brick superimposed trapping of genre on setting, like the film Brick that I think works so well here too.

[A]

Wow. Just a couple weeks ago, you referenced Looper on the Alien Earth podcast. Now you're here with Brick. Rian Johnson, Joseph Gord Levener.

[B]

There are worse things to be than a Rian Johnson shill. I'm happy to participate.

[A]

I will say there's a Brothers Bloom reference coming up on our Prestige TV episode this weekend on the first episode of Tasks. So stay tuned for that. Okay, in terms of the pilot couple, one thing we should reference if you go, if you're like, Robin, Joanna, love the show, I'll watch the show. I've never watched it before. I'll go ahead and buy it a season of it on. On the streaming platform of my choice.

[B]

Not just that I'm seeing you can buy season one on eBay for $5. I bet you can get it for even cheaper than that, to be honest with you.

[A]

And this is what we would advise, because the DVD pilot is different from the pilot that streams online. There is a cold, open That I think is kind of crucial for setting the tone that was cut from the original airing and. And is. It does not exist on the. On the streaming version of the episode either. So. So in discussing the pilot, we should say the cold open that existed on the version that you and I watched. Is Veronica on a stakeout at the Camelot Motel?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

She's talking about how she's never going to get married. She's talking about how sleazy all these, you know, people are here having their hookups at the motel. She's got her calculus book there on the car seat next to her long camera. Very cheeky. But what Rob Thomas talked about is he was like, I was making a high school show. And the network said it has to start if it's a high school show, it has to start at the high school. So instead we get cut to the first scene after the credits, Veronica rolling up to. To the high school. And she has a voiceover where she's like, some kids work at Taco Bell. I'm a private detective. So, like, everything that that cold open establishes with his context becomes like, voiceover, you know? So I'm just. I'm advocating if you still own a DVD player, hunt down the Veronica Mart DVDs for a couple bucks on ebay. You won't regret it, I promise.

[B]

The UPN executives were not doing us any favors in the battle against pluck. You know, it's like, it's. It's real tough when you set it up that way. But again, if you just show Veronica in action, even I believe you let.

[A]

Van infect your mind with his pluck agenda. I really can't.

[B]

I don't think he. Generally speaking, I have much more of an appetite for it than Van does. But this is a very real thing. Like, are gonna have a somewhat allergic response to just the trappings and the setting of this show. And if you can get through that. And I think one easy way to do it is show Veronica being something more than just an average teenager. All of a sudden. Now you're cooking with something. Now you're seeing her. And I think also most crucially, in terms of that cold open, like somebody who can handle herself. You know, she's a do gooder sometimes. She's a troublemaker at other times, but she's somebody who. You can understand her being thrown into some pretty extreme situations, and she can kind of find her way out with the help of a dog and a taser.

[A]

I will say that the. The way in which this pilot episode abuses the flashback and the voiceover is quite extraordinary on rewatch. Again, I do like this pilot. There it is a very deftly weaves a Logan plot, a Weevil plot, Cliff plot, you know, all these things together and off a Sheriff Lamb plot, like everything sort of like comes in together in the most satisfying little braid you ever did see. The PCA like everything Wallace, et cetera, et cetera is all woven together in sort of like one triumphant knocking over the dominoes moment for Veronica Bars. I will say I do think Veronica would have an easier time in life if she didn't show up to things to gloat. She does it a couple times in the pilot and I'm like, you could just execute your little schemes without cheekily finger gunning at the people that you have have screwed over.

[B]

But who would she be if she did? You're talking about a fundamentally different character. You know, like if, if she's not there to say like this is my over the moon face, like what show are we even watching?

[A]

The tone of all of these voiceovers is essentially, yep, that's me that you wondered how I got here. And again it's, it's trying to tell us a lot about Veronica's best friend who was murdered, how her father lost her job, lost his job, where her mother is, this sexual assault that happened to her. It's just, it's, it's just shoveling how her social status has changed all these various things. It's, it's just trying to lift a lot in the pilot. It's a lot to try to take care of.

[B]

So yeah, I do have an incredible amount of admiration for that, like how much it is endeavoring to put forth in front of us. And you alluded to the characters even just establishing like Lamb for example, pretty clearly in a very limited amount of screen time. Something that's very hard to do in a pilot, even an extended one. And so the fact that they're able to cover that much ground is great. I find the pilot to be the kind of episode that like, as I am watching it now, having seen Veronica Mars, I have a lot of affection for that pilot. And I'm like, man, I just love this show. But as putting myself in the shoes or the seat of a first time viewer, it's like this is a lot that you're just kind of hurling at me and expecting me to not just get my bearings, but understand kind of the plotting through lines of what this episode is about.

[A]

I think the only reason this worked in a way that it shouldn't be. Because now if you show this episode, if you show this season to someone, let's say you don't get all the way to episode 14, but you're like, okay, hang with me for the pilot. Okay, now we got to get through a Paris Hilton episode. It's kind of like episode four is sort of like when you'd be like, okay, are you here with me? But, like, I. I just think it's. It's like the fact that they have Kristen Bell, who will later make a fortune just doing cheeky voiceover work in Gossip Girl, is what saves the pilot from being an absolute train wreck. Because she can. She reads the flashback, you know, even when it is something as, like, as devastating as the sexual assault at the party morning after scene with this just momentum that. That keeps you going. But it. But it is, I think, a tough sell for people who have never experienced Veronica Mars. When I was watching a bunch of episodes to sort of prep for this, the person who wandered in and was like, oh, wow, those phones are sure are old. Sort of just like, got hooked and sat down and was like, sort of watching it. And they were like, okay, I get it. It's fun to watch her do her thing. That is Veronica Mars. It is fun to watch her do her thing. It's really good.

[B]

And again, to watch, like, within that Kristen Bell do her thing as. As you're setting up with the voiceover, like, there. There are just some performances and some shows where it's like, holy, the star power of this person that, you know, found might be a little extreme, but, like, Kristen Bell was not holding down roles like this before Veronica Mars. It was very much like a. Put her in a slightly different light.

[A]

Deadwood.

[B]

I love her appearance on Deadwood, and it plays into some of the sort of, like, ingenue appearance of naivety that she has, like, leveraged in almost every six, like, all of her great roles since then. Like, there is a way that Kristen Bell looks and plays against type that I think makes her so dynamic as a performer. But a lot of kind of her getting more serious, dramatic roles starts here. And I think what's so interesting about the way it has all unfolded is, like, even though she and Logan had that chemistry, the same has not been true for Jason Doring. Like, he has not had the same kind of arc for her as her even. Just like somebody who has kind of disappeared accepting the Veronica Mars reboot, which.

[A]

He came back for, I feel like it's been like a curse for him almost. I don't know, I will say in terms of, like, iconic moments in this pilot, you're a marshmallow. Veronica Mars is what the fandom eventually is called marshmallows. Like, that's eventually what the Veronica Mars fandom. So that comes from this. Obviously. The Keith Mars tonight we die in, like, the lower middle class to which we aspire is from this episode, very important. And you mentioned the Outsiders, that be cool soda pop line, which she says to Wallace after he mentions the Outsiders. I think I thought that was an outsider's line. I say that all the time.

[B]

Wait, is that not an outsider's line? I'm not gonna lie. I also thought it was just a straight up Outsiders line.

[A]

Soda Pop is a character from the Outsiders, but if you Google be cool soda pop, you will get Veronica bars. It's not from the Outsiders, but I say that all the time. If, like. If like, a dog is sort of like, being antsy, whatever, I'll be like, be cool Soda Pop. Like, it's just a thing that I say that I got from Veronica Mars that I thought I got from the Outsiders for a long time. So that's the way in which pop culture referential writers rooms will screw you.

[B]

Sometimes, you know, especially with stuff like. I mean, Veronica Mars is so good at it in terms of the little turns of phrase that just worm their way into your brain and never quite leave you. And it's like, there are funny shows. They're well written shows. They're really dynamic and interesting shows that just don't have that kind of stick. It's. You remember the character, remember the plot line. Maybe you remember, like, your emotional reaction to a thing. But this is just one of those shows where the writing alone will become, like, a part of your life as you watch it.

[A]

Yeah. Anything else you want to say about the pilot before we get into sort of like, deep, dark, scary spoiler territory?

[B]

I think we covered most of it. I mean, we haven't covered this part specifically, but the opening theme, the Dandy Warhols, lights out from minute one. Just like, okay, we got it. You know, there's so this. I feel like I've been subject to a lot of really shitty opening themes or just, like, really, like, thoughtless. Like, okay, here's a placeholder that we never quite got around to putting something else in for. This is perfect.

[A]

It's so good. It introduced me to the Danny Warhols, which is a great band.

[B]

What a gift.

[A]

And they show up in a later episode. Right. I believe there's like, a karaoke Night, where things again in.

[B]

In the Buffy vein. It's just like, you just gotta have the band on it.

[A]

Yeah. Just have the. Yeah. Just invite Nerf Herder to come on anyway. Yes. Which I think you don't get the theme song in the pilot. So that's another way in which it is really missing something here. Anything else you want to say?

[B]

I think we covered it. I think the pilot overall, still a worthy enough place to start. But as I said, I've had trouble just getting people to watch this show. And if the way to do it is by hooking Adam Scott or a guest star on and pulling people in through the side door, so be it. Let's do it.

[A]

Clever. Very clever. All right. I want to get into the big time spoilers section because it helps make our point in a way that I feel disinclined to spoil people on. So this is your warning.

[B]

This is. No, we're very serious about this warning. If you have not seen this show and you're not convinced yet, one, you're wrong, you, like Veronica, are thinking. You're interpreting the evidence here, and you are interpreting incorrectly. I need you to leave and think about what you've done and reconsider your life choices. Hopefully watch Veronica Mars. But at minimum, if you've not seen Veronica Mars, don't listen to this section.

[A]

We will be back on Sunday with Bill to cover the first episode of Task, a new HBO series that absolutely rules. So please come back and listen to that. And we'll be back with another hooked episode on Lost next week. I'm really excited about. So that's a little, like, tease. Come back, please, before we get into the spoilers, to really give everyone time to dry the, like, soapy water off your hands and press stop or pause or whatever you need to do on here. Okay. In season four, Veronica Mars, you've shown a lot of.

[B]

A lot of restraint.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Holding on to. I'm actually.

[A]

I'm not as twisted up about this as other people are because, like, I don't know when a reboot happens, I'm just sort of like, well, any extra time is extra time. And that's. That is what it is. At the end of the eight episodes of the fourth season of Veronica Mars, yes. Veronica and Logan get married, and then that same day, he gets blown up and is killed.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And the fandom was so mad about this. The fandom that, like, sparked back to life with the Kickstarter for the movie.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

And just, like, was really living. I actually didn't really love that movie. I felt like it was. It was too fan servicey and very product placement.

[B]

It's not very effective.

[A]

No, I don't think it's great. But I do think that they did some great, some good stuff, I think with season four. And I think the idea of wanting to return to Veronica as an adult, having, you know, lived, you know, through the things that she's lived through, was a good idea. Kristen Bell was interested in living in. In the world of this character. They killed Logan. I understand why.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Because again, that relationship just sort of swallowed the show. You could not give Veronica another love interest because, you know, our guy PIZ can really attest to that. Like, everyone will tell me off Mic.

[B]

Joe that you thought PIZ was like the one true pairing for Veronica.

[A]

Don't try to entrap me in your lies, Rob Mahoney. But poor pizza Chris Lowell, a real champ. Showed up for the movie. Is great. Is kind of great in the movie. Like, you can't put Veronica with anyone else.

[B]

Am I misremembering? Is he working at this American Life?

[A]

Yes, he is. I think Ira Glass is in it. Yeah. Is in the movie. Yeah, that sounds right for piss. I think. I just. I understand that they felt like they had written themselves to a corner. I just have never seen a fandom turn on a creator.

[B]

They were so mad.

[A]

I mean, end of Game of Thrones, maybe comp. Honestly, inside of this fandom, I have never seen anyone as mad as the Veronica Mars fan was that Logan Echols was killed off at the end of season four. And then they, like, they had planned to make more seasons. They just did it because the hue and cry was so loud and genuinely. I was just trying to Google, like, get interviews of Rob Thomas from season one. And I was putting in all these parameters in my search term and all I could get. I mean, first of all, Google's kind of broken because AI is stupid and wrong. But also just like I. This. The. The absolute avalanche of articles and interviews about this pop culture event that I was like, wow, I knew people were mad. I just didn't know it was this deep. And also on like, the. I was like, you know, put around the Veronica Mars Reddit boards and a bunch of people are like, the fandom just died after they did this. And I was. I mean, it's stunning. So it just really underlines the argument that you were making that the Logan and Veronica relationship, which gets. Starts to get its legs under it. Inside of Mars v. Mars is the show.

[B]

It kind of is the show that said those people were big mad about Logan dying in season four. I was big mad at them being big mad because I really like season four, and I really like the idea of a clean slate. Veronica moving like poker face.

[A]

But make it Veronica Mars. That's what I was hoping for.

[B]

Oh, my God. Like, the potential for that with this character, I think would have been incredible. And I, for one, this is my thing about tv. I love the reactionary elements that we've talked about where you can shape and guide a show depending on what's working and what's not. There's also this fact that things are of their time, and some things you have to just let go of, and it's gonna be disruptive, it's gonna be controversial, but sometimes you have to kill off really beloved characters. And I think having actual stakes and repercussions for the shit that Veronica is getting into is what makes this show good. The fact that some days she's gonna show up to a biker bar and it's like, holy shit, this is dangerous. Not just like a girl playing at detective is what made the show good. And so the fact that there are actual costs. I was here for that.

[A]

I mean, I'm not saying the show did that, I think, quite well in season two because I loved the character of Beaver, and I was absolutely, absolutely devastated, personally devastated at the ending of season two. So, like, the show has done it before. And I agree. I was actually kind of defensive of the choice in terms of if they want this story to continue and they want Veronica to sort of be free to do other things and to move and shake and not be in the same cycle of the same relationship they had to do it. And I. Yeah. Anyway, Jason Doring deserves the world. He's so good. I think Rob Thomas should just create a show for Jason Doring that is just like. Which is just like, just make it basically Logan. Just don't even try. It's fine. Just have him play, basically Logan.

[B]

We're all cool with it.

[A]

We be really into it. So he deserves, as much as Kristen Bell does a career. I think so, yeah.

[B]

I do think these shows and these characters do also struggle with something, which is when you have the bad boy, bleach, blonde hair, asshole character that we've been talking about all episode. When you do make him into the, like, good boyfriend, there is a little bit of a plot vacuum of, like, well, now, if he's not starting bum fights, what do we have this guy do? And some of the solution for that for season four is, oh, we make. We kind of dial up some of Veronica's mess even more. And then he can be the sort of stabilizing contrast piece, but then that's getting away from some of the edge that people like in Logan in the first place. And so it's like there's kind of a no win situation that develops with.

[A]

Characters like that they addressed in a meta way in season four, in that episode where he's like. He punches a hole in the. In the, you know, pantry, and then they, like, have rough sex. And he's like, is this what you missed, this guy? And she's like, yeah, it was great. He's like, I did therapy, man.

[B]

It is, in fact, what they. And she missed.

[A]

I have been going to therapy, and she's like, I'm not interested. So, yeah, it's. It's a. It's a no win situation. But when it was good, it was very good. And when it was good with season one, I would say season one, season two, season one, perfect. Season two, really good. I mean, season three, to me, mixed.

[B]

Bag, but, yeah, I could be talked into season two being even better. I think some of the highs might be even higher. One overall might hang together a little more. Veronica Mars also has that thing where it's like, the longer you go into it, the more certain events are almost like retconned into complications that make it hard to even remember. Like, wait, who was it that did? What was it this person who left the room then? And this person? Like, there's a lot happening that you need to keep track of, and it keeps deepening and changing over time. It makes it hard to kind of separate one season from another too.

[A]

I think the mystery of season one, who killed Lily Kane? Is so good.

[B]

It is.

[A]

And I think the Aaron Echols reveal is so good that it's hard to top in season two with Steve Guttenberg. With love and respect to Steve Gutenberg.

[B]

I love Steve Gutenberg.

[A]

Good's great. Good.

[B]

While we are in the broader Rob Thomas universe, the Steve Guttenberg episode of Party down is just one of the greatest episodes of TV that's ever been made.

[A]

Absolutely rock solid. Very good. All right, so this has been another hooked episode. We suggest you watch Party Down. We suggest you watch Veronica Bars.

[B]

Definitely.

[A]

We suggest you watch Buffy the Vampire's Lair. Of course, you should watch all the things that are very important to us because our taste is perfect. We will be back, as I mentioned, with the first episode of Task and also Rob's introduction to the television series Lost.

[B]

I can't wait.

[A]

I cannot believe I get to talk to you about the first two episodes we're going to be doing. The two part pilot of Lost is what we're doing.

[B]

I'm feeling a lot of pressure, Joe, as just as somebody who obviously Lost means a great deal to you, I am now on the other end of the like recommending Veronica Mars chain. What am I to think?

[A]

I'm really confident, Rob, that you're gonna enjoy the pilot of Lost.

[B]

I hope you're right.

[A]

And then we've got two more shows that we plan to do after that and then that wraps up our first arc of the of of Hooked because task will be going so horses is coming. We've got a lot coming this fall. So we will see you soon. Prestige [e-mail]. if you if you have any Veronica Mars thoughts.

[B]

Oh I would love to hear them.

[A]

If you have any Logan Echols thoughts. If you have any Lost thoughts for Rob.

[B]

No spoilers on those please.

[A]

No, no, no, of course not. And we will see you soon. Bye.

[B]

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