‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 1 Deep Dive and Theories

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast: ‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 1 Deep Dive and Theories

Release Date: February 19, 2025
Host: Joanna Robinson & Rob Mahoney

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Introduction

In the January 19, 2025 episode of The Prestige TV Podcast, hosts Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney delve into the intricacies of 'The White Lotus' Season 3, Episode 1. Skipping past promotional material, the duo embarks on a comprehensive analysis of the episode's key themes, character developments, and the show's evolving narrative structure.

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Accents and Character Interpretations

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the authenticity and execution of accents portrayed by actors Jason Isaacs and Parker Posey.

• Joanna Robinson raises concerns about Parker Posey's Southern accent, noting its "forced" quality (02:36).

• Rob Mahoney counters by appreciating Posey's "broad approach" to her character, suggesting that the exaggerated accent serves as a "storytelling mechanism" for exposition (07:10).

• The duo debates whether Isaacs' accent aligns with his character's background, with Mahoney observing inconsistencies: “Isaacs is just all over the map” (06:32).

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Character Theories and Relationships

The hosts explore various fan-submitted theories and their own interpretations of character dynamics:

• Carrie Coon as Portia’s Mother Theory:
  A listener, Ellen, posits that Carrie Coon’s character might be Portia (Haley Lu Richardson) from Season 2’s mother.

  • Rob Mahoney dismisses the theory due to timeline inconsistencies, questioning if a mid-20s character would naturally connect as a mother figure (10:41).

• The 'Blonde Blob' Dynamics:
  The trio of blonde characters—Kate, Jacqueline, and Laurie—are examined for their intricate relationships.

  • Rob Mahoney discusses potential power imbalances and emotional complexities, highlighting Laurie’s role as an outsider trying to fit in (17:04).

• Tarot and Symbolism:
  Referencing a Reddit user’s interpretation, they analyze the Three of Cups Reversed, correlating it with the strained friendships and possible hidden enmities among the 'Blonde Blob' (16:00).

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Literary and Symbolic References

Drawing parallels between the show and classic literature:

• F. Scott Fitzgerald’s Influence:
  Victoria Ratliff’s reading of The Beautiful and the Damned by F. Scott Fitzgerald sparks a discussion on the show's themes of excess and the American rich.

  • Joanna Robinson reads a quote: “Here's to alcohol, the rose-colored glasses of life,” attributing it to Laurie (39:36).
  • Rob Mahoney connects this to Fitzgerald’s critique of glittering excesses, affirming its relevance to the show’s portrayal of wealthy characters (38:54).

• Great Gatsby Motifs:
  Visual elements from The Great Gatsby, such as “bodies floating in pools and green lights,” are noted as thematic echoes in the episode’s opening sequences (38:54).

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Casting and Representation

The episode's casting choices, especially the inclusion of K-Pop star Lisa from Blackpink, are scrutinized:

• Joanna Robinson appreciates Lisa’s naturalistic performance, dispelling concerns about potential "stunt casting" (26:38).

• Rob Mahoney emphasizes Lisa's global popularity and anticipates her character, Mook, playing a significant role due to her central placement in various storylines (27:49).

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Opening Credits Symbolism

The hosts analyze the opening credits' use of animal imagery and its metaphorical implications:

• Animalistic Themes:
  Monkeys, snakes, and other wildlife symbolize the inherent animalistic instincts and social hierarchies present among the characters.

  • Joanna Robinson remarks on how these images represent "packs" and power dynamics, such as Tim Ratliff as an "alpha male" being the "apex predator" (23:01).

• Specific Imagery Analysis:
  The depiction of monkeys "getting absolutely zooted" parallels the show's chaotic and unpredictable nature, hinting at underlying tensions and potential violence (23:46).

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Character Focus: Rick and Chelsea

A deep dive into the relationship and backstory of Rick and Chelsea:

• Rick’s Mysterious Agenda:
  Theories emerge about Rick possibly being a grifter or a secret agent, with Rob Mahoney leaning towards a work-based mission involving Jim Hollinger, portrayed by Scott Glenn (44:36).

• Chelsea’s Role:
  Chelsea is portrayed as a social butterfly, potentially interacting with numerous characters and influencing various plotlines.

  • Joanna Robinson cites listener feedback regarding concerns of her character's relationship with Rick, questioning his true intentions (25:07).

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Tarot and Spirituality Themes

The intersection of Western spirituality and Eastern philosophy is examined through character perspectives and dialogue:

• Identity as a Prison:
  Piper's quote, “Identity is a prison. No one is spared this prison... we build the prison, lock ourselves inside, then throw away the key,” is dissected to explore characters' struggles with their identities (30:15).

• Eastern Spirituality in Western Context:
  The hosts discuss how 'The White Lotus' integrates Buddhism and Western spiritualism, particularly through characters like Zion who embody this blend (31:03).

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

• Force Majeure Speculation:
  Predicting that Season 3 may escalate with natural disasters or significant plot twists, Rob Mahoney reflects on Mike White's unpredictable storytelling style, suggesting future episodes could introduce dramatic forces to shake character dynamics (54:13).

• Character Development and Future Directions:
  Both hosts express excitement about character arcs, particularly Carrie Coon’s Laurie and the evolving dynamics with supporting characters like Belinda and Greg, anticipating deeper interconnections and revelations in upcoming episodes (55:15).

• Closing Remarks:
  Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney sign off by thanking the production team and teasing upcoming episodes, maintaining their enthusiasm for the unfolding narratives in 'The White Lotus' (59:28).

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Joanna Robinson (00:49): “I look forward to you kind of guiding me and showing me... this is the pool where the children aren't allowed to be so you can luxuriate in peace.”

• Rob Mahoney (06:32): “Isaacs is just all over the map and he feels like the accent might slip out…”

• Joanna Robinson (39:35): “Identity is a prison. No one is spared this prison...”

• Rob Mahoney (16:00): “The Three of Cups Reversed can also mean... envy hidden within the circle.”

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Final Notes

Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney provide an insightful and multifaceted analysis of 'The White Lotus' Season 3, Episode 1. Their discussion not only navigates through fan theories and character studies but also delves into the show's literary and symbolic layers, offering listeners a rich tapestry of interpretations and anticipations for the season ahead.

Transcript

[Joanna Robinson]

This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's the White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors, Thai iced coffee and pina colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only, so for the love of coffee, go try them now. Foreign hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson. I'm still in the void. That's Rob Mahoney. Hey, Rob, how you doing?

[Rob Mahoney]

Hi, Joe. I'm doing great. I'm, I'm excited to take my first venture to Thailand spiritually. But your second, you know, you've been around, you know, the grounds of covering White Lotus. You've already done on this feed. But I look forward to you kind of guiding me and showing me. Oh, you know what? This is actually the place where you want to go to avoid all the crowds. This is the pool where the children aren't allowed to be so you can luxuriate in peace. That's kind of what I'm looking for from my White Lotus experience.

[Joanna Robinson]

I can be your wellness guide as we go through this journey.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, sounds great. Rob, why are we doing two white lotus pods on this feed? What are you and I doing that's different from what Bill and Mal and I are doing on Sunday night?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a great question. Do you know the answer to this question?

[Joanna Robinson]

I can come up with an answer.

[Rob Mahoney]

My answer is, I love covering TV shows with you, Joe, and I would love to cover white loads. I know why I'm doing it. You so graciously are, as I said, coming back for another bite of the apple, another bite of the poisonous fruit. You're right back in. And I appreciate it.

[Joanna Robinson]

For one, I think one thing we wanted to do, so Bill and Al and I are going to, we have the video pods that are well, and you can also just listen to them that are going up on Sunday nights directly after the show. We want to do a show a couple days later to get, to get in on the theories that people are going through, to get emails from you all and just to sort of marinate with the episode and perhaps dive a little bit deeper into White Lotus. Rob Mahoney.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

If folks want to email us, we have not decided whether or not we're going to go with any of the emails that we come up with today because you aren't feeling like 100% confident. You have nailed it yet. But what are your early ideas for a special deep dive White Lotus podcast that people can email?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, first, let's make it clear that anyone can email us at any [e-mail] that's available too.

[Joanna Robinson]

And they already have four white loaded.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're excited. The people are jazzed, as are we. Yeah, this is a tough one, I have to say. There weren't particular lines of dialogue. Although I was cackling throughout this episode, I was really enjoying it. But as far as a signature email line, I didn't think anything really jumped out at me. And so I'm thinking more conceptual. After listening to your pod with mal and Bill, monkeyshootoutmail.com could be right there for the taking. And similarly, this is a spelling nightmare. Chekovsmacaquemail.com I think could hint at something to come, but I'm not going to ask anyone out there to spell Chekhov's macaque for an email. So I think we're still searching. Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, what about the monkeysdiditmail.com I like.

[Rob Mahoney]

The Monkeys did it, if that's available. We should jump on the Monkeys Did It.

[Joanna Robinson]

Monkeys done it is available. Can we tolerate that?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think we can do monkeys. What about Monkey shootout? Is Monkey shootout available? I mean, I'm not. I don't hate it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm doing wiki shootout.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. We have, through the magic of editing, figured out that Monkey shootout is available. The Monkeys did it is not available. No, but monkeyshoot gmail.com is available. So. So if you have questions, comments, or concerns for us, you can find us at monkeyshootoutmail.com or [e-mail] or if you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Want to email whoever does own TheMonkeys did it at gmail.com and get them to surrender their email address to us, we will accept it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, but surrender only.

[Rob Mahoney]

No bartering, no bar, no bartering, no promising. Just surrender. Just. Just soft pressure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so let's talk about some emails that we got.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

@Prestige tvotify.com though, again, monkeyshootout gmail.com is here for your enjoyment, Emily and everyone else. But in this case specifically, Emily wanted to get in on Accent corner. Mal and Bill and I talked a bit about the fact that Parker Posey and Jason Isaacs are doing two strong accent choices on the show. Jason Isaacs being someone who is not even from the United States of America. So.

[Rob Mahoney]

And we have to say his character does not need to be from the United States of America.

[Joanna Robinson]

He could be.

[Rob Mahoney]

Could. Could he not be a native Brit who studied abroad at Duke? Is that not a thing that could have happened?

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, you tell me. This is what Emily wrote. Hi. Just wanted to weigh in on the Ratliff accent convo. I've spent my whole life in Mississippi and Tennessee, so I feel somewhat qualified to offer an opinion. Parker Posey's accent bothered more. I know Jason Isaacs is British, so maybe I don't expect as much from him, but Parker spent a good bit of her childhood in Mississippi. Her accent feels way more forced than necessary. Maybe the exaggerated accent is just television shorthand to indicate Southern to a broader untrained audience ear. But Southern accents have a lot more nuance than anything she or Jason is doing. However. And my best friend and I spent a lot of time talking about this today. The whole dynamic in that family felt eerily familiar. Anyone who knows an old money white family in the south would recognize the clothes, even Piper's prairie dress that y'all pointed out. The uncomfortable closeness of any of the sibling slash, sibling slash parent slash sibling relationships, the obsession with state school allegiances slash rivalries. All of that felt so authentic. I'm willing to ignore the sketchy accent work. So, Rob Mahoney, you are not from any of the Carolinas.

[Rob Mahoney]

I am not. No.

[Joanna Robinson]

You are a Texan, but a child of the South. A child of the South. Welcome to accent Corner. I texted you in advance.

[Rob Mahoney]

I was like, you gave me the brief.

[Joanna Robinson]

Something wild is coming. I can't wait for you to hear it and talk to me about it. Take me an accent corner with you. Rob Mahoney, how are you feeling about it?

[Rob Mahoney]

They're both pretty out there. As far as Isaac's and Parker Posey, it's fascinating that it's hitting people so differently. If I have to profess a theory as to why that might be the case, I would say it's this. Isaac's to me does at some point, like, read as Carolinian to me, like, he does hit it at some points, but he's so all over the map that you're getting Australian, you're getting New Zealand vowel sounds at some point, which is quite a far away from the Carolinas, linguistically speaking, to say the least. He's just all over the place and he feels like the accent might slip out from under him at any point in time mid sentence. Anything could happen.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, some. Similar to Tim Ratflitz Ratliff's grasp on, you know, his own life.

[Rob Mahoney]

It would be certainly his personal finances or at least what's going on inside.

[Joanna Robinson]

His company, his family standing. Parker Posey.

[Rob Mahoney]

So she is much broader. And for me, it's working. Like, I appreciate the broad approach that she's taking to this character, and I might have more forgiveness for it than some of our listeners do. And I will say it's because of this. Like, White Lotus to me, has always been a show about the specificity of character. It's always like, you nail these very specific details and all of a sudden everything clicks into place. And as someone who has grown up and spent a majority of his life in the south, there are things that Parker Posey is doing that are so particular that from the first time she opens her mouth, I know this woman. And I might even be related to this woman if we're totally honest about it. I just started laughing and it. Look, there's a very good storytelling mechanism here because there is no better vehicle for exposition than a Southern mom. Like it. She will come in, guns a blazing, telling you the entire life story of every single person that she's traveling with.

[Joanna Robinson]

Does she have to be on Lorazepam when she does it or does. Is that just a bonus?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that's optional. I think that's just for the vibes and also another reason why I'm a little more forgiving on the accent work. Like, she's in a slurry zone and a very pleasant wave that, frankly, may we all have what she's having.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's. That's my take on the excessive drawl from Parker is that this is a drug induced sort of slur.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's barely awake for most of this first episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Her eyes are like at half mast at all time. To be clear, I love Jason Isaacs on the show and I love Parker Posey on the show. They are actors I love. I think they're really well cast. The accent corner is fun to talk about, but I just want to make it clear. I think they're phenomenal. And I think what Isaacs is doing, especially in the way that Tim Ratliff manages someone like Pam that, like, really like, yep, bolstering but condescending sort of approach that he has, is just, Jesus.

[Rob Mahoney]

Christ, I know that guy. Like, I know that guy. And Jason Isaacs is perfect casting not just for that guy, but for potentially shady businessman with a perpetually puffed out chest who is, I would say, like most influenced by how other people see him and is, like, deeply insecure in spite of that. So it's like, it's Great casting. The accent work is really all over the place. It's not bothering me. I'm along for the ride.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I'm curious to see if like week to week it sort of fades in the background and we don't even notice it anymore or if it becomes more hilarious. We shall see. And then the other. Another theory that I've seen floating around that Mal and Bill and I didn't talk about because it honestly hadn't occurred to me. But I've seen it a couple different places. And our listener Ellen wrote in to say I feel like one theory you folks didn't cover on the excellent pod this week is that it? Definitely. Strong words, Ellen. Definitely seems like Carrie Coon is being set up to be the mother of Portia AKA Haley Lou Richardson from season two. I. This is not. This did not occur to me at all. She was just talking about sort of she thinks their hair is similar, blah, blah. Carrie Coon is playing Laurie, one of the three, you know, blonde friends who are together on this trip. They do mention that she has a daughter. What, what do you think of this theory? How does, how is this sitting for you?

[Rob Mahoney]

I would say it doesn't check out for me timeline wise because the Porsche we know from season two, I would guess at the point of that season was what, 22, 23 years old?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Mid 20s, something like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

And we're assuming this is maybe 2ish years later after season two, just based on some circumstantial things that happen in the first episode and are said.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Would you describe a 25 year old as turning into a really cool girl like that? I like. I would, I would think you'd get more into young woman territory if you're, if you're gonna describe someone in their 20s. Like cool girl is not how I would think that an older woman would describe a woman in her 20s.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I will say the thing that's appealing to this about me, I don't, I don't think it's true. But you know, I'm, you know, I love a theory, so I'm, I'm willing to entertain all theories. But like, I wouldn't mind a future installation of White Lotus where Carrie Coon and Haley Lou Richardson.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mother, daughter who go visit another White Lotus location. Though given that Portia, I would say given that Portia is like pretty sure what happened to her boss.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you not think she would say to her mom, he maybe don't go to a White Lotus?

[Rob Mahoney]

I do think that she would Indeed, say that per the conversation that the three of you had on the other pod about, like, would you be aware if murders were happening at a hotel before you stayed there? I would think broadly speaking, no. And we've all stayed in hotels where people have died, people have been murdered. It's. I don't want to say it's not a big deal, but it's not something that you're consciously conscious of unless it's a very particular point of obsession for you, which. Who am I to step on your. Your we interests. Follow your bliss. If you want to know about the murders in your hotels, please do. But, yeah, there's no way that a mother to daughter relationship, if there's any consistent communication whatsoever, would not include. By the way, the last time I went to a White Lotus, many, many people were murdered.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, there was a lot of death. Okay, so the Kate Laurie Jacqueline trio. I want. I kind of want to start there with you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you have a. Do you have a name for them other than the aforementioned Cougars? Because Cougars is canonical.

[Joanna Robinson]

Fancy. Fancy Cougars is, I believe, what Bill wanted to call them.

[Rob Mahoney]

The fancy is not a bad touch. And I don't have a better suggestion, unfortunately.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I was. So I was listening to the official podcast. It's pretty good. Actually, I will say, I don't always love an official podcast. This is a pretty good one. And they were interviewing Michelle Monahan and she said that Mike White wanted them to look like, quote, one blonde blob. That they all three sort of like, looked the same. Ish.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So maybe the blonde blob is another.

[Rob Mahoney]

Blonde blob is solid. How do you think the blonde blob started if you were to trace the chain of events?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who goes blonde first?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, Leslie Bibb.

[Rob Mahoney]

You think she's blonde first even before Michelle Monahan is blonde?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I think Kate goes blonde first and then Jacqueline and then Laurie. Laurie last. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Unfortunately, a lot of lasts for Laurie. It's tough scenes out here as.

[Joanna Robinson]

As you know, number one, Carrie Coon fans, all this slander will not stand. Okay, Mike White, also, Michelle Monahan also says that Mike White refused to confirm what kind of show Jacqueline was on. Yeah, I had guessed the Walking Dead. Did you have any. Any sort of like, thoughts or theories about what show Jacqueline Lemon is on?

[Rob Mahoney]

I love that idea. I was thinking more kind of broadly popular, more four quadrant entertainment. The first thing that jumped to me was like, she is on a subplot or one of the stories of like a this Is Us bootleg type show. You Know, like a domestic drama of some kind where if you are someone like Saxon, like, you can't quite put your finger on where you know this person from, but they're out in the ether. So I don't know if it's. I was trying to think, like, is it. Is it they were them? Is it we? Were they. Some. Some other. This is usually the U. You are perhaps finally come to the small screen, but I don't. Yeah, I feel like it might be something that you might not have actually seen. But, you know, she is famous.

[Joanna Robinson]

So I was thinking the Walking Dead. The Walking Dead, like at its height. Because, like, at its height it was everywhere and she's globally famous. So, you know, it's like a huge show. So anyway, the point is there is no answer because not only would Mike White not confirm, but he insisted that Michelle Monahan not like one for herself. So the answer is we'll never know, but guesses are welcome.

[Rob Mahoney]

The.

[Joanna Robinson]

The UUR is. Is a fun one again. Monkeyshootout gmail.com if you have any, hit us up. I wanted to. I, you know, as I mentioned, we wanted to sort of like poke around subreddit, you see what theories are floating around there. Lce. I don't know quite how to. I always have a hard time reporting Reddit usernames on a. On a podcast. Put up a photo of the three of the blonde blob cheersing each other with their white wine with a tarot card of the three of cups.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I just wanted to read to you what this Reddit user linked the meaning of the tarot card. The three of cups, please. When the three of cups is reversed, it means that you may have no time to socialize or go out with friends. You may be too busy with school or work that you can't spare some time to have fun. Three of Cups Reverse can also mean losing touch with some of your friends. As time passes, you may find that you're growing apart from one another. We grow older, we must put in effort to make sure that our friendships are not neglected. Alternatively, the three of Cups reverse can mean that there's a lack of balance and harmony within your social circle. Gossip and scandal can rear their ugly heads. Perhaps there is envy hidden within the circle, and as a result, you are feeling isolated.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, holy shit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, holy shit, Rob.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's pretty good.

[Joanna Robinson]

What do you want to say about. I mean, I'm not. I'm not. I would happily try to match any character on this show to a tarot card. It is not my expert area of expertise, but what do you think of the dynamic that they put together with the blonde blob here? And whether or not you want to apply to Tarot or not.

[Rob Mahoney]

I love the Tarot call, and honestly, I think fits within the vague sort of spiritualism that we're delving into with this season of White Lotus in general. Yeah, this is my favorite section of characters so far. I just find something about their relationship to be so vivid and so particular. And I'm a little torn onto whether these three women hate each other or not, or if they're just so far apart that they are insisting that they're closer than they are for, you know, not in the way as you just Described with the 3 of Cups. Like the way that relationships get strung out over time and you find yourself clinging to them and pretending that there's something beyond what they really are to you in the present tense. But specifically, this sort of, like, chain reaction between them of clearly the balance of power has been upset by Jacqueline becoming quite famous and Leslie Bibbs character Kate having just a complete Jacqueline complex in every possible way and wants to be her so bad. But my heart always goes out to Carrie Coon, who in this case is so distinctly the third friend. And if we're gonna. If we're going to fudge the math on the three of cups, I mean, Carrie Coon has had three cups herself. She is. She is racking them up. She's throwing them back. Those are some heavy, heavy pores. And by the end of the episode, she seems pretty well sloshed.

[Joanna Robinson]

But I love in her three cups is what you're saying.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well into her three cups. But I love that character. I love everything that Carrie Coon is bringing to it all. Like the random little things, the way she's, like, after she spots the monkeys for the first time, does this, like, creep down the patio deck to come tell her friends about this thing she just saw. It's like, I. I fucking love all. I love all of these actresses as performers, and I'm really loving the places that they're putting in, the things that they're giving them to do. I would say Leslie Bibb, like, first and foremost, who, as far as I can tell, has just not been granted a lot of very fulfilling parts in the things that I have seen her in. But she always pops, and she's always interesting, and so it finally looks like she's gonna be given, you know, some. Some Runway here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Carrie Coon is a longtime favorite of mine, Michelle Monaghan Fantastic. But my eye is drawn to Leslie Bibb as Kate. I feel like of all these women and I recognize all of them, Kate is the one I think I recognize the most. And to your point about, I love your point that you made about specificity of character, I think what I love about White Lotus and I was thinking about this as I was trolling through the subreddit this morning and stuff like that, is that HBO put up an image of all the characters sort of in a grid on their social media and they. I forget what the caption is, but it's something like who do you think? Or something like that. Right. So they're stoking theory corner and that's the genius of White Lotus, is that it is. It is just a comedy of manners show. Yeah, that's what it is. Wrapped in the candy coated package. Here's a body, there's a body or bodies or perhaps, you know, like this is a. There, it's a theory show, a whodunit show, but really that's not at all. I think what Mike White is interested in. It's just like, that's the hook that gets people guessing and talking about it, but really it's just these little digs and quirks and nonsense that are so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Human among all of us completely and within archetypes that may not be us exactly, but the hyper rich that are put into these incredible circumstances and beautiful locales. And this is why, to be honest, Joe, I was a little surprised to see that some of the initial critical response of this season was a lot of like, oh, it starts out as kind of a remix of the things that you've already known of previous seasons, like very familiar. And it's like, yes, that is true. In the same way that we're going to a luxury resort, it's going to be very wealthy people. There are going to be these archetypes. But what makes White Lotus, White Lotus to me is that the textures are always so different. And it's, it's. It may be another son who is inheriting incredible wealth working for his father, but the personality type is just different enough and again is just specific enough that I'm completely into it. And so true to the name of this episode. Same spirits, new forms. That's what White Lotus always feels like to me.

[Joanna Robinson]

I kind of feel like. So Mike White, writer and director of every single episode, I feel like he's sort of lampshading that critique by calling it Same Spirits, New Form. You know what I mean? Like, it is in the one hand Engaging in the specific. You know, if we're in Thailand, we have to be thinking about. In terms of spirituality, we have to be thinking about Buddhism. But, like, he's also, like, sort of like. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know you think it's like, third verse, same as the first. Like, but guess what? It's working.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep. Also, guess what? Have a little faith. Like, Mike White has proven to be one of the most surprising writers working in television or, like, basically whatever he puts his pen to. So I don't anticipate that this will end up in the same places it does. And frankly, I don't know how. You could watch previous seasons of White Lotus and think, oh, yeah, I knew exactly what was going to happen at the end of season two. That's just how I predicted it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly. Well, some, you know, something that they were talking about in the official podcast, and I don't know whether or not I agree because we'll have to see how it all plays out, is they were pointing in that the deaths in the first two seasons are accidental.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the shootout that we hear in the cold open feels more purposeful.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe. Unless a monkey did it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's also very plausible that some people with guns freak out because of some monkeys or anything else and wind up killing someone who is completely unrelated to anything that may have caused the scare in the first place.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I want to talk to you about the opening credits a little bit. There's this idea of. Okay, let me. Let me. Let me rewind a bit and say this. This sort of animalistic theme which has been true of every season of White Lotus, but maybe.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, this one in particular, I would think.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, particularly, we've got monkeys everywhere.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's monitor lizards. Let's go.

[Joanna Robinson]

Snakes and trees, whatever. But this idea that, like, we are animals. We are. We. We have packs that we are in. Whether it's like, a blonde blob or a biological family or a couple, like, we run. We have these various, like, packs that we run in. We've got the fancy cougars, we've got the monkeys everywhere. We've got Patrick Schwarzenegger in the water like a crocodile, like a predator, like a hippo, like something like that. Right. We've got this, like, terrier energy coming off of Chelsea and a sleepy cat energy coming off of Vicki. And one of my favorites in the opening credits, which is, like, a lot of people, a lot of monkeys. A lot of monkeys overrunning people.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

A lot of various flora and fauna of the area. The. The. The opening Credits card for Parker Posey is of two monkeys getting absolutely zooted. They're just like smoking pipes and just sitting there like getting absolutely blazed. But you see a lot of these scenarios where like animals that you think of as predators become prey inside of some of these scenarios in the opening credits. And I think that's interesting because if you think about someone like Tim Ratliff who starts the show as this sort of like alpha male, apex predator sort of figure that is being hunted, if you want to put it that way.

[Rob Mahoney]

By I wouldn't the media come to.

[Joanna Robinson]

Justice, perhaps consequences of his own actions. Yes, but he is. He is in, you know, at least mentally, emotionally on the run.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

From. From what is coming for him. Saxon on the hunt. Rick is on the hunt for something while and Goggins characters on the hunt for something very much. You've got alpha males versus beta males. When you think about Guy Talk, our security guard who we love and the like posturing security guys with the guns, etc. Etc. And like, who is Mook interested in among those options?

[Rob Mahoney]

I want to push back a little on we love Guy Talk.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Are you worried he has incel sort of tendencies.

[Rob Mahoney]

So a little nice guy energy coming off him that I'm worried about the like my princess thing. And he's clearly already flexing kind of a jealous inclination over Mukta even talking to other men now, it may come from a very sweet and sincere place of. These guys seem dangerous. They seem whatever.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

I can understand both ways. I just have my eye on him. And frankly, if we're picking characters who could wind up in circumstances that get unexpectedly violent. I have my eye on Gaitok as a lovestruck guy who seems like he's about to do something very, very stupid. I have that kind of course laid out for him and I hope he doesn't take it.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're not wrong in some of your assessment here. I feel very tenderly towards him. See if we want to keep that nice guy appellation. Capital N, capital G, nice guy. Or if he gets to earn the lowercase and I hope so on the. On the MOOC front. And this is something that Bill and Mal and I didn't mention, but we definitely got emails about. The actress playing Mook is an extremely famous. The most famous, globally famous person who has been on White Lotus.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not even close.

[Joanna Robinson]

Um, what is your. What is your. I feel like you know more about K Pop than I do. What do you want to say about Lisa from Blackpink?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I am mostly K Pop adjacent personally. So not a passion project of mine, but absolutely have people in my life for whom Blackpink is a huge deal. They're a huge deal for a lot of the world. Just one of the biggest musical groups in the world, period. And especially within K pop, I would say by a wide margin the most popular girl group. And so Lisa is like the, is native Thai, is the sort of like rapper, front dancer of that group. And so yes, is a level of celebrity that for people like us, Walton Goggins is a statue of a man and very important. But for a wider swath of people, Lisa from Blackpink is a huge fucking deal.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I think she's great.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think she's doing, she's doing really good so far. And I think her casting in this role and frankly the amount of screen time that Mook gets in the first episode certainly portending like a level of significance for a member of the staff. And you know, I think we're trying to figure out who is actually going to wind up central to these plots or those plots, who are the crossover characters. And I think by nature of working for the White Lotus, she's gonna be bouncing between all these stories in a way that gives her a lot of relevance and a lot of time.

[Joanna Robinson]

So my apologies to the K Pop Stans for us not mentioning it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not a group you want to get on the bad side of.

[Joanna Robinson]

I do not, do not organize against me. I think she's wonderful and I, I, you know, the sense that I got from people writing in or people talking about it is that like when she was cast there was concern she's not acted before and there was concern if this was stunt casting of a sort or if this would, you know, if we heard, I don't know, Britney Spears is going to be in White Lotus. She's not Britney Spears. I know but like you know, was.

[Rob Mahoney]

Going to Sabrina Carpenter a pop star of whatever variety.

[Joanna Robinson]

Actually Sabrina Carpenter is an actress anyway someone a pop star is going to be in season four by Lotus and.

[Rob Mahoney]

We'Re like oh, the problem with, with the like American pop star comps is half of them were on the Disney Channel growing up. It's like what do supposed to do with this now?

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm like Sabrina Carpenter can do anything. Welcome to the White lot of Sabrina Carpenter.

[Rob Mahoney]

But, but this is a pretty naturalistic performance for a first time actor and a very natural look that I think even like fans of Blackpink or fans of Lisa's would say like, oh, this is, this is something Very different for her.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. To go back to the sort of, like, animal comp, though, I. I. The. That idea of the pack mentality has always been evident in White Lotus. Who is in your pack? Where are you the alpha? Where are you the beta? That sort of stuff.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

But I wanted to drill down on this quote that we hear from Piper's audiobook. Right. Identity is a person listening to a.

[Rob Mahoney]

Monk'S book as an audiobook just feels disrespectful for some reason, while also reading.

[Joanna Robinson]

It and highlighting it at the same time is fascinating.

[Rob Mahoney]

I didn't realize that was a thing that people did.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's not, as far as I know. Maybe while you're studying, perhaps, if.

[Rob Mahoney]

If you do this, please email us at prestigetvpotify.com [e-mail] I would love to know the explanation for why you would both listen to an audiobook and read the physical version at the same time.

[Joanna Robinson]

I've done. I've done plenty of times. I will bounce back and forth.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's fine.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know what I mean? Like, I listen to the audiobook while I'm doing something, and then if I have time to sit down, I will read.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

But. Or I'll listen. Let's say it's for work. So that's similar to studying. And I'll listen. I'll hear a passage. I might want to go back and read it physically, definitely, but not at the same time. I feel like that would cross my wires a bit. Anyway. Seems to work for Piper. Perhaps. She says this is the quote. Identity is a prison. No one is spared this prison. Rich man, poor man. Success or failure. We build the prison, lock ourselves inside, then throw away the key.

[Rob Mahoney]

How did this hit with you, Joe? Now that you are sitting in a void prison of your own making that you cannot escape from success or failure?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Doing your third podcast of the day.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, from the Void. Great question. I. I am so fascinated by the way in which sort of Eastern spirituality. White. White people looking for meaning inside of Eastern spirituality.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is gonna work this season. But this idea of ip.

[Rob Mahoney]

I want to broaden it out, too. To not just white people, though, because I think it was such a White Lotus articulation of spirituality. To me, in the cold open with Zion, a character named Zion who begs a Buddha statue to save his mom, then begs Jesus for forgiveness, then snaps back at Buddha like that. That is White Lotus spirituality.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, that's. You're right. A Western approach, distinctly Eastern religion. This, as far as I can Tell is a made up quote for the show. As far as I can tell, this is not the teachings of any specific actual real life monk. But I think this idea, the way that Mike White likes to craft the cocktail of a particular season via these various archetypes, something that he learned not just from his study of, like, film and television literature, but his fascination with reality television, like Survivor. These reality TV archetypes. What happens when you mash these kinds of personalities together? What delicious fireworks can you expect from all of that? But this idea that, like, when you're talking about archetypes, you're talking about identity, then so, like, what. What about identity for any of these characters do you want to point out as a potential prison?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, man. I mean, I think the whole Ratliff family is stuck in their distinctive prisons, or I think some of them are joint prisons. Maybe the best lens to look at this stuff is through Locke, the youngest son who is being pulled in all these different directions, seems to have no idea what he himself wants in the world, which, not uncommon for someone his age, but a fascinating place to put a character like that in this sort of lion's den. Where in particular, Tim seems like such a nag of a father and seems just basically disappointed at all of his kids for various reasons, but is like constantly on his kids, whether it's about their posture, whether it's about their interview practices, what it's like, he always wants something more of them. And so to find yourself in Locke's position with your mom more pharmaceutical than woman, with your nag father, with your sister, who you might share a bed with, but your brother, who you seemingly definitely want to watch jerk off, he's in some kind of prison. I don't know what it is yet. And I think he's. Maybe he's choosing his own prison in a way.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tough times for Lachi, the Ratliff family, with the sort of scandal in the media and, you know, this, this jockeying for favor sort of thing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Feels very. Succession comes to. Succession comes to White Lotus with. With Piper being like, so Shiv Roy coded, like all this sort of like, what are you.

[Rob Mahoney]

What are you getting from that?

[Joanna Robinson]

From Piper?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, because I feel like she didn't get a lot to do in this episode other than be sort of timid at the idea of actually going into the temple that she's supposed to visit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, sort of like slightly. Slightly removed from the core of the nonsense of her family.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, that's true.

[Joanna Robinson]

And. But, yeah, but also impractical inside of that Removal is sort of my read so far.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Something that I, I, I texted you about this morning that's been going around the Internet is the opening image of the Ratliff Kids, which is Saxon, Patrick Schwarzenegger, Piper, Sarah, Catherine Hook, and Lachlan Lockie. Sam Navola with sunglasses on, headphones on, and then, like, a Coke bottle up to the mouth as the sort of, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil monkeys. How do you feel about that?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, Mike White is fucking diabolical. He's so good at this stuff. And frankly, like, so many of the filmmaking choices in general, whether it's in service of character, whether it's in service of just, like, friendship flow and transition. Like, I. Yes, this is a character piece. Yes, this is a story about, like, man's incursion into nature. And I just want to see some, like, droplets on a lily pad sometimes. And everything feels so cohesive because all of these edges are papered over. And because ultimately, like, you get these really vivid ideas about who these characters are without them having to do anything or say anything or be anything. You just see them kind of exist in a space, and it's like, oh, I get a vibe from this family. As far as what the power dynamics are like, I understand why a character like Locke would feel so torn between the temple and the pool. Everything happens so quickly. And the efficiency of character in White Lotus is just on a different level than almost everything else that's on television.

[Joanna Robinson]

Something that Mallory texted both of us before you and either of us had had a chance to watch any episodes was to promise you. Rob Mahoney.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

A chance to talk about the Duke vs UNC rivalry. What do you want to say? What do you want to inform our listeners who may not know anything about basketball, college basketball?

[Rob Mahoney]

What.

[Joanna Robinson]

What the. What the context here?

[Rob Mahoney]

This is. This is a heavy responsibility. I honestly don't think this is a case where I can give you specifics that would put it in detail. It is just one of the biggest sports rivalries in the world and certainly within American sports. And it is not just, oh, we hate each other's team. Like, there is a deep existential hatred between, hilariously, two collegiate institutions. And so there's. There's just some. Something extra in the water here. And in particular, like, Jason Isaacs could not be more Duke coded than he is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tell me why. Tell me why.

[Rob Mahoney]

Now you're actually just gonna get me in trouble. There is. There is, like, a. There is a pompousness to him that checks out Duke for sure. And there is a eternal frat bro turned maybe like finance bro element to Saxon. That absolutely reads Duke to me. And honestly, Parker Posey also reads Unc to me. So I think they're actually hitting some. Some pretty specific marks here and some ones that I think serve the characters quite well. Even if it is just like a family trying to lobby their son over which school to go to when ultimately, like, just pick wake dude. Like pick a different like Tobacco Road school. Spite both sides of your family. Like, set your own path. Locke, please.

[Joanna Robinson]

Seems like Lockie has never made a decision for himself in his life. Will he before the season is over? Time will tell. I got shot down with this idea, though I've since received some support outside of Bill and Mallory. Will you entertain my Is Saxon a virgin question?

[Rob Mahoney]

It seems possible. Like, I mean, anytime a character is obsessed with sex, you have to ask the question.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just ask questions.

[Rob Mahoney]

And in the spirit of characters projecting their own issues onto other people, him being so concerned that his hot question mark sister is. Might have never had sex before. Like my guy. Like, maybe check yourself. Maybe look in the mirror. He is uncommonly obsessed with porn and uncommonly horny. Coming off of a commercial flight. That was. That's a weird look.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not a commercial flight. The rat lifts do strike me as like one Tennessee Williams play away from just absurd, absolute wreckage, but more.

[Rob Mahoney]

But more incest than a usual Tennessee Williams play.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, but occasionally you have that in Tennessee Williams play. Okay, Literature Corner. Speaking of Tennessee Williams as we are, I'm here to take you to Fiction Corner, Rob, and I believe you'll have a good time here. Okay, Victoria Ratliff is reading a copy of the Beautiful and the Damned by F. Scott Fitzgerald. Gerald, of course, famously wrote the Great Gatsby, among other things. And if folks aren't as familiar with the Great Gatsby, I will just note that, like bodies floating in pools and green lights out on the bay, both of which we see in this episode are classic Gatsby moments. The Beautiful and the Damned. And this is just from old Wikipedia.com's the work focuses on this swinish behavior, glittering excesses of the American Idol rich.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

Does that sound right to you?

[Rob Mahoney]

If Fitzgerald had a point of fixation, it was that. It does. It does check out, certainly. My question to you. Is this a book club book for her or not? Is this a book she picked up of her own volition? Or is it like, I need to read this so that I can discuss it over a glass of wine in two Weeks.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. You think the girls aren't reading Fourth Wing in her. In her book club?

[Rob Mahoney]

Every other book. I think they've already been there, done that. Honestly, they've ripped through it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I wanted to read a couple quotes from the Beautiful and the Damned for you and see if you can figure out which character I'm thinking of on Melodious when I read it to you.

[Rob Mahoney]

And these are characters from this season.

[Joanna Robinson]

This season of White Lotus.

[Rob Mahoney]

Got it.

[Joanna Robinson]

From the Beautiful and Damned by F. Scott Fitzgerald. Quote, here's to alcohol, the rose colored glasses of life.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let me stop you. That's Laurie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. That's Carrie Coon. Okay, this one's. This one's probably the hardest.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Quote, Tired with everything. Tired with the world's weight he had never chosen to bear.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hmm. I could see Tim Ratliff for that.

[Joanna Robinson]

It could be. And that's probably better, but I was just thinking of Rick Walton Goggins as he rolls up to the beach and he just looks so bedraggled, like no one has ever looked. Looked more wilted in his life.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's so grumpy. Grumpy Goggins is a very particular flavor that we don't get that often.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's true.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm enjoying it, and I can't wait to see. We haven't even. Barely even touched the Rick and Chelsea elements of this first episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're going to go.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's a lot going on.

[Joanna Robinson]

I. I would never deprive you of the opportunity to talk about Walton Goggins.

[Rob Mahoney]

Means a lot to me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, two more quotes and then we're out of here. In crowded rooms, they would form words with their lips for each other's eyes. Ooh.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, I think there's a couple answers for this one. I could see Kate and Jacqueline. I could also see Piper and Locke because they seem to have a particular connection. And there's like a. There's like an actual intimacy to Piper and Locke that I think is. Is worth watching and worth charting. And I'm curious to see, like, exactly what their relationship is. But there's a closeness there for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is it a wholesome closeness? Time will tell.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who knows?

[Joanna Robinson]

I was thinking of, at least at any given time, two members of the Blond Blob.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rolling their eyes about the third member. And I feel like they all sort of take their turn in doing so.

[Rob Mahoney]

See, you see it as like a true triangle because to me, it feels like there are. To me, it feels like what has happened is there's Jacquelyn and there's Kate, who wants to be Jacquelyn. And they have a particular connection. I'm guessing maybe originally their dynamic was a little flipped, and it's become kind of muddled over time. And then there's Laurie, who is the third friend who is not taking a victory tour.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then Laurie, who is also there.

[Rob Mahoney]

She is also the. Oh, and you.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just think, like, you're completely right that there are all these moments where Jacqueline and Kate are complimenting each other and then they, like, remember to acknowledge that Laurie's in the room.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's terribly awkward. I think there were just a few times that Jacqueline was like, I would sleep in a tree that I feel like Laurie.

[Rob Mahoney]

That is true.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know what I mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, so generous.

[Joanna Robinson]

So I just feel like. I feel like it's sort of at any given moment, the looks can go in any given direction.

[Rob Mahoney]

I love. I love the blob. I love. I love the fancy cougars. They're a delight.

[Joanna Robinson]

They're great. Okay, this is the last one. It's not to any character. This is just what I think the whole show is about.

[Rob Mahoney]

All right.

[Joanna Robinson]

From the Beautiful and the Damned by F. Scuff is Gerald quote, Things are sweeter when they're lost. I know because I once wanted something and got it. It was the only thing I ever wanted badly. And when I got it, it turned to dust in my hand.

[Rob Mahoney]

But I was told by Saxton that life is all about getting the things you want. Is it not?

[Joanna Robinson]

Respect, pussy, success.

[Rob Mahoney]

All I know is that is the guy that I want to take life advice from. He seems like he's got it all figured out. He's got the shirt tucked in. He's got the little band on his sunglasses. He refuses to surrender his cell phone. Like, that guy's got it together.

[Joanna Robinson]

The way the women actively turn away from him when he talks to them.

[Rob Mahoney]

He does. But I. I will say Chelsea is not. Not checking him out.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, there's a little.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's a little side eye between the two of them happening. Well, I mean, he's not going to let the opportunity to towel off, towel off in front of a woman go by him. And so, like, he's making it a point to be seen, but it does seem like she's at least kind of clocking the peripheral.

[Joanna Robinson]

I want to talk about Chelsea and Rick in a second because obviously I need you to get your goggins takes off. But before we. We leave this, I just want. Quote, when you think about. And they talked about this in the official pod when you think about. They did not talk about at all. But when you talk about Thailand and Buddhism, this core tenet of Buddhism that is suffering is caused by needs, attachment, desire.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Which is White Lotus.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is White Lotus. It's also, like, I will say, quite astute of Saxon to even broach these ideas as he's talking about what life is all about. I mean, he clearly inverts a lot of it and gets it quite wrong. But the fact that he even has these touchstones to understand the differences between him and his sister, I think is more than I gave him credit for.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's talk about Rick and Chelsea.

[Rob Mahoney]

What a pair.

[Joanna Robinson]

Two main theories floating around Rick right now. I mean, we'll get to the sort of like, what does he want with Scott Glenn question that Bill and Mal and I entertained. Before we get there. I'm going to pose these two theories to you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is Rick a grifter who can't go to Australia, or is he an. A secret agent of some kind?

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Undercover, FBI, CIA, something like that?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think grungier than that. To me, a lot of what's happening with Rick and a lot of the things that Chelsea is saying about him. Read more Hitman or read more Bounty Hunter. Like, specifically this idea that, like, they were supposed to go one place and then plans change dramatically and they now have to go to Thailand. And there's no arguing out, like, out of it. Like he has some kind of job to do here.

[Joanna Robinson]

That feels more work based, not personal.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think this is work based. I think, like something came up and he found. He found out that Hollinger was going to be at this place at this time, or at least was supposed to be, and is showing up with some intention of talk. I don't know if it's talking to him. I don't know if it's capturing him. I don't know if it's killing him. I don't. Maybe it's like a drug mule. Like, I think it's something more on the other, other side of the law. But maybe that's just Goggins pulling the wool over my eyes yet again, as I am inclined to see him as such a scamp.

[Joanna Robinson]

He is. He's an outlaw. Famously.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, okay, so Jim Hollinger, you know, I'm gonna assume that people, not every single person listening to this episode necessarily heard Bill and Al and I talk about this, but Jim Hollinger, owner of. I don't know if it's just this white Lotus or all white, low tie, unclear Unclear if it's a franchise or not. Played by the great actor Scott Glenn.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. A Leftovers reunion with Carrie. Let me do that again. Yeah, A Leftovers reunion with Carrie Coon and a bad monkey reunion, Joe, with Michelle Monahan. Like, all. All of our people are coming together here.

[Joanna Robinson]

I didn't think we'd ever talk about bad monkey. Here we are in the. In the baddest of monkey shows.

[Rob Mahoney]

You mean a show with some mystical animal involvement about man and nature and how they interact and how. Perhaps we've overstepped.

[Joanna Robinson]

Will Michelle have another moment with a hippo? Time will tell.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it was amenity.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was a manatee. I'm sorry. Thank you. Scott Glenn, great actor. We see him in the photo only, but he is playing Jim Hollinger, clearly. Scott Glenn, who Rick has clearly is disappointed to find is not here at the White Lotus. And you think this is a job as a hit? Yeah, an assignation or something like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think something like that and that. And that would be the reason he potentially can't go to Australia as he's in some kind of legal trouble there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. Whereas Bill and Mal and I were pretty firmly on, like, we think this is his dad or something like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, like, again, I get it from the physical resemblance element that you guys talked about. Like, I. I would not buy it, but this feels more business than personal or pleasure to me. And I think the Chelsea element, while I'm sure fun for Rick in some ways, is also just good cover. Right. To travel as a couple versus like a solo weirdo who's very upset that this one random businessman was not there. Like, that's not a good look.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because what else? I mean, he just does not seem to like her in this episode. So why else would he be. I mean, and I don't know. Yeah, exactly. Amy Lee would. Are you a sex education watcher?

[Rob Mahoney]

I have seen the. I've seen a couple seasons. I'm mixed on the show overall, but she is consistently a delight, A delightful.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

And is that here too? Like, she's the most well adjusted person at this whole frickin resort?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, absolutely. I heard someone identify themselves as a Chelsea and I'm like, we all hope we're the aspirationally. I'm not sure we are. And. Yeah. So anything else you want to say about Chelsea or Amy Lee Wood in general and her performance?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I think ultimately, like, it's not surprising to me that she can make fast friends with Chloe, this other woman at the bar. And we, you know, if we want to dive into the. The Greg parts of this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, I'm ready to talk about Greg anytime.

[Rob Mahoney]

Perfectly, you know, open to lots of theories on that front, but. But I think she strikes me as a character who could bounce out of her little. Her little clique. Right. Her little family, her little den of people. Like, I think we're starting to see the ways in which the rat lifts and, you know. Wait. Oh, sorry. We're starting to see the ways in which the rat lifts and Rick and Chelsea and the blonde blob all might bump up against each other. And some of those are, like, straight, young guy being horny vibes, and some of them are potentially the fact that Chelsea just seems like a social butterfly of a character who. I would not be surprised if she makes friends with any number of the people who are on this show. Absolutely. And it seems like might have some time to kill. I don't know what Rick's up to, but it's not getting. It's not engaging in tantric activities with.

[Joanna Robinson]

Her, and that's a miss. Okay. Chloe and Greg, this is something I raised with Bill and Mel, and I. I have no. I don't know what to say about it. I just think it's interesting that the. The character of Chloe is originally cast as a Thai actress, and then they recast her as a white actress. And I don't know why, but that feels not. Not important or something.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know what I mean? Like, that feels not. Not intentional.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, especially for a show that historically has a lot of attention paid to the way that, like, wealthy white tourists in particular have these relationships with the people who are working at these resorts, the indigenous communities around them, like the na. The people who are native to that region.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly.

[Rob Mahoney]

And how these, like, apparently a bunch of bald white dudes kind of parachute into Thailand especially. And shots fired at bald white dudes, but shots fired at Walton Goggins, who has been balled up, as far as I can tell, just to have. Just to take a bullet for a joke. It's not necessary at all.

[Joanna Robinson]

I feel like everyone. We were talking this a little bit off, Mike Malibill and I, but, like, everyone. I kind of feel like Mike White did this to everyone. Like, he drew attention to Amy Lou's distinctive teeth.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

He had Leslie Bibb and Michelle Monahan talk about plastic surgery.

[Rob Mahoney]

Steve Zahn's testicles previously. Like, look, there's a lot going on. There's a humbling that needs to happen early in a season of white lotus or late as well.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's talk about Greg. What do you want to say?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm a little torn on how much I like the through lines for White Lotus. I think it's a show that overall has a lot of discretion as far as how much it wants to have characters bouncing between seasons. We have Belinda here, clearly, who's gonna be another through line for us. I'm assuming she and Gregor are gonna bump into each other sooner than later. They're already in the same restaurant.

[Joanna Robinson]

It would be deeply weird if they didn't.

[Rob Mahoney]

It would be very strange. And that seems like a natural collision for their respective plot lines and kind of how and why Greg would be involved in the story to this point. But I have no idea what to expect or, like, how quickly or if Belinda would start putting pieces together at all or exactly why she would take a driving interest in him and his activities beyond everything else she has going on, which is seeming like a three month stay at this luxury resort to learn some wellness practices. Like, she's got a lot to do. And here's a guy who is like, tangentially related to someone she knew a couple years ago. Who?

[Joanna Robinson]

She. Does she even know that Tanya's dead?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. And did she, like, did she never want to think about Tanya again after she walked out the door, given the way that she was treated?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to go back to. Yeah, I don't have anything else to say about Greg at the moment. I am curious how much he's in this. It was like a fun surprise to a certain degree, because I think, you know, we all knew that Belinda was in the season, but we were not expecting that John Grease would be the recurring actor in every season of White Lotus.

[Rob Mahoney]

I know, but it is nice to think that for a show that has as sprawling a cast as this and very splashy announcements, when those casts come together, there are still surprises. There's still room for whether it's a recurring character, whether it's a surprise guest star. Like, there's room for stuff to just happen in White Lotus in ways that we would never expect.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm excited by the prospect of that. If there's like, you know, as we had with last season, the Tom Hollander character and as a fellow Hannah, Stan, I know you were excited to see him like, late in the week. Like, who. Who could be showing up that they perhaps haven't even announced.

[Rob Mahoney]

I know, how are the monkeys going to get the guns? Like, who knows what's going to happen?

[Joanna Robinson]

Joe, last question for you. I gave my Sort of Chekhovs list to Bill and Mal of the monkeys, the poisonous fruit, the guys with the gun. I want to. But one that I didn't sort of dial in on. But. But sort of going over the opening credits of the Fine Tooth Comb. I had a question. Will we get a tsunami? There's like a lot of storm imagery in the opening credits and a lot of like people being swallowed by sea creatures. Images in the opening credits is do you think? You know. And Mike White has said in interviews, again, I'm not reading a ton of interviews because I'm trying to keep myself as pure as possible.

[Rob Mahoney]

But like, also, Mike White, as we've said, is only going to give you so much.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's true. But he keeps talking about. And maybe he's overplaying his hand, I don't know. But keeps talking about. The season is like the biggest thing they've ever done. The darkest, the like wildest. That it's all been a lead up to like this sort of thing. Classic sort of well done season. But like Mike White doesn't seem like a guy who's going to like overblow. So I think we are going to see a leveling up of some kind.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Could we see in addition to whatever the monkey shootout is in the final episode, could we see a sort of natural disaster of some kind hit the white lotus in Thailand?

[Rob Mahoney]

Very much seems possible. And I think it's not completely separate from what Mike White has done in other forms of storytelling. Like Enlightened is a show that levels up and changes dramatically very, very quickly to a point that I think for some viewers, myself included, was like, I had a little bit of whiplash from that and it wasn't always what I wanted it to be by the end. But like he. He has proven that he will scrap an idea, that he will turn a show on its head, that he will introduce a dramatic, literal force of nature if that's what the show calls for, you know, if that's what the character dynamics need to really shake them loose in like a force majeure kind of way. Yeah, I think that could be a wonderful addition to the season.

[Joanna Robinson]

Force majeure is like the greatest White Lotus comp I could think of. Anything else you want to mention? We have not talked about Valentine or porn Chai or very little about Pam, my favorita.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean punch. I seems like a great hang. He seems like a delightful fellow. No, no notes at all. Great. Great hospitality style. I'm really digging his vibe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Completely agree. Fabian. The. The. The hapless bumbling, anxious manager. How are we feeling about him?

[Rob Mahoney]

Not in favor.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm a big fan of him. Not as like, I want to hang out with him. Just like, in terms of really fun to watch.

[Rob Mahoney]

Absolutely.

[Joanna Robinson]

And Valentin, he's from Russia. Anything you want to say?

[Rob Mahoney]

He is certainly from Russia. I love that the blonde blob has no response to that. None whatsoever.

[Joanna Robinson]

In fact, Jacqueline was sort of like, huh? Like, I don't know. Yeah, it was. It was a. It was an odd moment. I love that.

[Rob Mahoney]

I did appreciate the theorizing on who. Who was going to wind up sleeping with whom of the blonde blob.

[Joanna Robinson]

What do you got?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, Valentin's right there. Clearly, for some. First and foremost, I just don't know that Carrie Coons Lori is going to be as successful as. As you guys seem to.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow. You don't believe in Carrie Coon?

[Rob Mahoney]

I believe. I believe in Carrie Coon. I believe in the real Carrie Coon. They are really trying to muss her up here and throw her under the bus. And frankly, I'm more. I have my eye to on my wall. Zero days since Laurie last had a breakdown. And it's just going to be that all season. I think I'm just going to be constantly resetting the clock as she goes back into her room and screams in agony over something that happened. And like, here we're thinking she's going to romance, like Russian massage therapists. I don't.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know that he's going to romance her.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, that's very possible.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's my question as a preeminent Carrie Coon scholar.

[Rob Mahoney]

Kunologist.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't like it. What did you. What did you make of this kind of crying versus the work we've seen her do in the leftovers, etc.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it's more pathetic on purpose.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, like the. The crying in the Leftovers is a moment of incredible catharsis that we have spent seasons building up to for, like, I have to say, just a character. It is impossible to watch the Leftovers and not feel a great deal of affection for Nora Durst. Whatever you may think of the decision she makes, like, as a character you come to really care about. This is someone I already kind of care about in Laurie, but she's having a tough time.

[Joanna Robinson]

What if Justin Thoreau checks in to the White Lotus on Wednesday?

[Rob Mahoney]

I will ascend.

[Joanna Robinson]

Great. Well, that's something we can look forward to. Anything else that we haven't had a chance to mention?

[Rob Mahoney]

Rob, I have one thing to ask you, Joe, which is this is not plot related, but after, after Rick.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is it about my Lacroix choices today, Harol?

[Rob Mahoney]

It might be indirectly. After Rick finds out that his mark or whoever Hollinger is to him is not in fact on the premises, on the grounds, gets very upset, storms out, cursing, goes immediately to the minibar, pulls out a beer and just starts going to work on it. I for one cannot think of a force on earth that would make me pull a beer out of the minibar and pay a mini bar price for a bottle of beer. I'm curious about what your relationship is to a mini bar. Do you have these same strict lines that I do?

[Joanna Robinson]

The question of if you're at a White Lotus, is it not all inclusive?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think it's all inclusive.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh God.

[Rob Mahoney]

Because they're paying for spa packages, I assume they're paying for all of the gluten free rice balls. You know, everything.

[Joanna Robinson]

I would never touch a White Lotus minibar. Can you imagine the most expensive mini bar of all time? The only time I will ever touch a mini bar and it is infrequent is at my old job when they didn't make us itemize our hotel receipts. And so just on the bill. Just on the bill.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, maybe this is the strongest argument yet that he is in fact a government plant, a fed of some kind. He's. He's on the clock because he's going to be expensing that beer. That's not his concern anymore.

[Joanna Robinson]

Spotify, if you're listening, I don't do that in your system. It doesn't allow for that. But Connie Nass, if you're listening, I definitely used do that to you. Okay, so that is White Lotus. It is Season three, episode one. Rob and I will be back on Friday. Talk about severance. I'm having a little bit of brain bleed with all the shows that we're.

[Rob Mahoney]

Covering right now, but the pineapples are not helping.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think this will be fine. I am, I, I feel some kinship with Mark on severance right now, but we'll be back. Thanks everyone who worked on this episode. Johnny Beachum, John Richter, Justin Sales, you all are the best. And we will see you soon.

[Rob Mahoney]

Bye.