‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group

Summary

Summary of "The Prestige TV Podcast" – Episode: ‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group

Introduction In this engaging episode of The Prestige TV Podcast, hosted by Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney from The Ringer, the duo delves deep into Season 3, Episode 3 of HBO’s The White Lotus. Titled “The Meaning of Dreams,” the episode explores intricate character dynamics, symbolic motifs, and the introduction of Trumpism within the friend group.

Dreams and the Collective Unconscious The conversation begins with a discussion on the theme of dreams as presented in the episode. Joanna introduces the concept of the collective unconscious, a Carl Jung theory suggesting shared instincts and beliefs across humanity.

• Joanna Robinson [04:40]: “He showed out and he showed up. And I love that for him, this idea of the collective unconscious is common to all human beings.”

Rob remains skeptical but open to the idea, highlighting how the show uses dreams to explore characters' deeper motivations and societal roles.

• Rob Mahoney [06:38]: “There's so much posturing happening, especially among people of this kind of class. And I think you're right to point out Victoria's statement about trashy rich people versus non-trashy rich people.”

The Ratliff Family Dynamics A significant portion of the discussion centers on the Ratliff family, particularly Tim Ratliff’s character development. They analyze his psychological unraveling and his strained relationship with his father.

• Rob Mahoney [08:22]: “Tim Ratliff is a wonderful television invention. I enjoyed watching him go from fully clenched, mentally shredding his own brain with anxiety, into absolutely blissed out.”

Joanna voices concerns about Tim’s use of lorazepam and its consequences, speculating on potential character arcs.

• Joanna Robinson [12:14]: “This is not deeply untrue about lorazepam, which is not a sleeping pill, even though Tim is using them to get his nap reps in.”

Piper Ratliff and the Monastery Visit Piper Ratliff’s character arc is scrutinized, especially her visit to a monastery in Thailand. The hosts discuss her superficial engagement with spirituality and the implications of her actions.

• Joanna Robinson [15:41]: “It's also very surface. Like, so this idea, it seems to be that Piper wants to do a program. However long she's going to stay there, we don't know.”

Rob highlights Piper’s aloofness and questions her genuine interest in spiritual growth.

• Rob Mahoney [16:50]: “She makes her appointment, and then she doesn't even bother to look around to talk to anyone else, to even kind of, like, take in the scene.”

Theories on Potential Deaths and Symbolism The hosts delve into theories about possible character fatalities, including the mysterious body in the water and the symbolism of snakes introduced in the episode.

• Joanna Robinson [20:47]: “Could that be lorazepam, Tim having, like, taken a stumble from the outdoor shower into the outdoor pond?”

Rob considers the likelihood of Tim being the mysterious body, tying it to his lorazepam use.

• Rob Mahoney [22:08]: “I think there's a very reasonable chance of that.”

Introduction of Trumpism in the Friend Group A pivotal discussion revolves around the introduction of Trumpism as a defining trait within the friend group, analyzing its impact on character interactions and societal commentary.

• Joanna Robinson [21:31]: “How do you feel about that as a choice?”

• Rob Mahoney [22:31]: “Putting the name Trump in there, to me, is just an extension of that in this case, like, a very sharp dividing wedge between these three women.”

They explore how Trumpism serves as a narrative tool to highlight class and privilege, questioning whether it’s the primary divider or if deeper similarities bridge the characters.

The Fancies and Their Dynamics The podcast touches upon the dynamics of "the fancies," a subgroup within the friend circle, and their interactions with other characters like Rick and Chelsea.

• Rob Mahoney [26:48]: “Like, it's cool to see all of these different ways in which it is naturally two versus one in every possible direction within this friend group.”

This section also speculates on potential alliances and conflicts arising from the upcoming beach rave setting.

Character Dynamics: Rick and Chelsea A significant focus is placed on Rick (played by Walton Goggins) and Chelsea’s relationship, analyzing Rick’s evolving persona and Chelsea’s supportive yet perceptive nature.

• Rob Mahoney [30:36]: “It brought an incredible light to my life to see Goggins in charmer mode again.”

• Joanna Robinson [34:14]: “She's just like, but can she fix Rick? Fix Rick? You know, like, what are we going to do?”

They discuss Rick’s internal conflict between seeking revenge versus maintaining his relationship with Chelsea, pondering his future decisions.

Mook and Guy Talk Analysis The hosts analyze the subplot involving Mook and Guy Talk, debating the nature of their interaction and the implications for their relationship.

• Joanna Robinson [40:20]: “This girl can't even hang out with her friends without getting cornered by this guy.”

• Rob Mahoney [43:25]: “But they might have the like, look, if both of us are single in 20 years, let's figure this thing out kind of arrangement.”

They consider cultural contexts and personal motivations behind Guy Talk’s persistent behavior towards Mook.

Listener Theories and Questions Listeners contributed various theories and questions, which Joanna and Rob address throughout the episode. This includes speculations on potential character deaths, symbolic motifs, and character backstories.

Symbolism of Snakes and Predators The episode explores the recurring snake motif and its symbolism related to control, freedom, and inherent evil.

• Joanna Robinson [46:17]: “I love that for her, there's Amanda has said it’s like looking a mirror, which is, of course, something that...”

They connect snake imagery to characters’ psychological states and plot developments, particularly focusing on Rick’s interactions.

Christopher Guest Characters Suggestion In a lighter segment, Joanna and Rob entertain listener suggestions for Christopher Guest actors to appear in future seasons, discussing potential roles and casting ideas.

• Rob Mahoney [52:03]: “Just like he's often quite disgruntled, honestly.”

Conclusion and Final Thoughts As the episode wraps up, the hosts express their anticipation for future developments in The White Lotus and reflect on the complex character arcs and thematic depth presented so far.

• Joanna Robinson [50:04]: “I'm rooting for him to take the Chelsea branch of the road.”

• Rob Mahoney [50:42]: “It's like a midlife crisis.”

They conclude by acknowledging the show's continued ability to surprise and engage, leaving listeners eager for the next episode.

Notable Quotes:

• Joanna Robinson [04:40]: “He showed out and he showed up. And I love that for him, this idea of the collective unconscious is common to all human beings.”
• Rob Mahoney [08:22]: “Tim Ratliff is a wonderful television invention. I enjoyed watching him go from fully clenched, mentally shredding his own brain with anxiety, into absolutely blissed out.”
• Joanna Robinson [15:41]: “It's also very surface. Like, so this idea, it seems to be that Piper wants to do a program. However long she's going to stay there, we don't know.”

Final Thoughts Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney provide a comprehensive and insightful analysis of The White Lotus Season 3, Episode 3, touching upon psychological themes, character developments, and cultural motifs. Their engaging discussion, enriched with listener theories and personal anecdotes, offers both fans and new viewers a deeper understanding of the show’s complexities.

For more detailed breakdowns and future episode analyses, subscribe to The Prestige TV Podcast and join Joanna and Rob in their weekly deep dives.

Transcript

[Joanna Robinson]

This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's the White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors. Thai iced coffee and pina colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only, so for the love of coffee, go try them now. Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[Joanna Robinson]

We're here to talk about White Lotus. Season 3, Episode 3 the Meaning of Dreams Rob, how are you doing?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm doing great. I don't have any dreams of. Note to mark down as far as to parse their meaning. Do you have any dreams you want to pick apart today?

[Joanna Robinson]

Gosh, no. We've already been through Rob Mahoney Anxiety Dream Corner. We certainly have a different pod. That's true. We've already talked about that. Do I have a recurring anxiety dream?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, let me ask you this. Saxon brings up, you know, the very primal idea of having nightmares about fire and snakes. I can't say I've ever had a nightmare about fire and snakes. Are you a snake dreamer?

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I'm not a snake dreamer, but what a fun thing that would to be. No, I don't. I can't remember my dreams, and I think that's a blessing. I think mostly my dreams are like awkward, socially anxious interactions. I think those are my usual nightmares. Nothing primal or elemental or anything like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you know exactly? Yeah. You're approaching people you think may have murdered a woman you met several years ago, and they give you a blank stare while in response. That's the kind of nightmare you have.

[Joanna Robinson]

But do you think Belinda knows that? You're talking about Belinda and our guy Greg Gary, of course. My guy. Your guy. But, like, not my guy.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nobody's guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think Chloe's guy, Greg Gary, do you think Belinda knows about what happened to Tanya?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, clearly not, or else she would be having a more outsized response.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, I feel like if. If I. Oh, let me say this. If I'm Melinda and I know what happened to Tanya.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

I am not approaching Greg Gary. No, that's not happening.

[Rob Mahoney]

Stay far. Last thing you would want is to be on his radar at that point.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. Shout out to a couple of our listeners who wrote in to let us know that, you know, we talked about the voice cameo in episode two. The voice cameo in this episode as the Ratliff lawyer is the podcaster Scott Galloway. He has a really charming anecdote on his own podcast about how Jason Isaacs came over to his house to give him acting lessons. And he didn't know that it was Jason Isaacs or who Jason Isaacs was. It was just like this handsome man came to his house to give acting lessons and then he found out it was Lucius Malfoy. But anyway, he got cast because the producers were a fan of him, a fan of his voice. Then he took some swings at this and they're like, oh, no, podcasters are not the same as actors. And then they got him the Jason Isaacs acting boot camp package. So.

[Rob Mahoney]

So, I mean, it seems quite lush. Imagine not knowing who Jason Isaacs is if he shows up at your front door. That's, that's a tough beat, but a good acting coach to have.

[Joanna Robinson]

Scott's been busy doing, knowing about a lot, about a lot of other things.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're, we are available, by the way, for voice cameos if you need like a 911 dispatcher, a concerned lawyer, a panicking coworker as the office is being raided by the FBI, like for all of your projects. I think. I don't want to speak for you, Joe, but I think we would be interested. We would take the meeting.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you have a theater kid background?

[Rob Mahoney]

No, of course not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, absolutely not. But, yeah, that's. You are good at basketball and I am not.

[Rob Mahoney]

We all have our talents.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. We already talked about the dreams. The name of the episode we open with, with Victoria Ratliff's dream. I want to talk to you about this concept of the collective. Collective unconscious, which is what Piper and Vicki are talking about when they're talking about the dreams are mostly. Piper is talking about any thoughts or feelings on the collective.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just, just broadly speaking.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, pro.

[Rob Mahoney]

If it exists, ambiguous to me if it does. But I'm open to the possibility.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is like a, a Carl Jung joint Jungian idea.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I have to say, Jung really went off with this one. Really, really knew what he was doing.

[Joanna Robinson]

He showed out and he showed up. And I love that for him, this idea of the collective unconscious is common to all human beings. He believed the collective unconscious is responsible for a number of deep seated beliefs and instincts such as spirituality, sexual behavior, and life and death. So it's, it's more about the nature, but this versus nurture. But this idea that your nature is somehow passed down through the generations, it's sort of imprinted on you. And I think that's really interesting to think about, especially in terms of what we talked about last week in terms of the roles or the identities or the positions that these people find themselves in. And can they break out of them or can they not? Can Piper be different from her family or is she doomed to just be. Be Ratliffian like the rest of her life? What about these lessons that Vicky has to impart on them about what does or does not designate a trashy rich person? You know, like these are all, you know, important questions. Can you, can you correct your posture to break out of your people pleaser status? Like all of this idea is. Is really rich inside of the Mike White universe.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, there's so much posturing happening, especially among people of this kind of class. And I think you're right to point out Victoria's statement about trashy rich people versus non trash, especially rich people, because not only in the collective unconscious sense is there this like, generational passing of humanity and understanding and shared experience. There's also like a pervasive, broad humanity that we are all tapping into together collectively. And so this idea that we are drawing these very strict defining lines between us that, you know, Tim Ratliff couldn't possibly be the kind of person who takes drugs. He couldn't possibly be the kind of person who takes a nap because who would do such a thing? Yeah, it's just very important to so many of these people that they appear in the world in a very particular way. And that's, I would think, what gets in the way of your ability to tap into the collective unconscious, if it's out there.

[Joanna Robinson]

I, I do want to just. We don't have like a ton of emails to get to this week, but I do want to skip to this one that you just mentioned. Tim taking the Laraspam. Larazpam. Tim, maybe my new favorite TV character of all time, a big fan. Yeah, I can't wait to see where we go. I want to talk to him, to you about his showering habits in a second. But Jackie, our listener. Jackie wrote in. Call me crazy, but Tim Ratliff dry swallowing a pill is way more unhinged than Rick releasing a bunch of venomous snakes. I am an Australian though, so maybe a matter of perspective. Dry swallowing a pill. Would you do it?

[Rob Mahoney]

Rahoney would do have done. Not my preference, but I think it depends on the size of the pillow.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's something just really uncomfortable to me watching Tim just sort of snap his head back as he dry swallowed the pill. I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just like, for me, it was much more him putting the pill on a hotel couch cushion and then putting it directly in his mouth. That was what stuck out to me about that sequence.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, Tim Ratliff is making great use of, of the outdoor shower at the, at the villa, but it's, it's not.

[Rob Mahoney]

A good sign if you're taking slow motion showers. As far as your overall state of.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mind, I really agree. How do you feel about an outdoor shower from Honey?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, only as an application post pool or post ocean as like a general daily practice. I don't, I don't really. I don't really see it for myself.

[Joanna Robinson]

Feels too vulnerable to you. Yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm open to some windows, but I want a closed. I want a closed environment.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Any. I really want to talk about Piper Ratliff, actually, sort of more than anyone else. But what, what, what do you want to say about the Ratliffs? And I'll get to my Piper takes.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, starting with Tim. I, I agree with you, Lazer Pam. Tim is a, is a wonderful television invention. I enjoyed watching him go from basically like fully clenched, mentally shredding his own brain with anxiety, into absolutely blissed out. Slash, slash, napped out. That was just a great transition point for the show, and I can't wait to see where it goes. I'm a little worried we're getting into, like, leaving Las Vegas territory with Tim where it's like he's seeing the end of the line. He's starting to make some pretty dramatic moves. He wants the phones in the bag. Wants to be. Well, he didn't want to be cut off from the outside world, but he certainly wanted everyone else to now that his little white collar secret has escaped containment. Right. It's no longer him gathering information. It's people calling in, there's agents at the office. What the fuck is happening? Everyone is panicking. Everyone is freaking out. And I will say the most tragic off, like, offshoot of that to me, is him taking Saxon aside and Saxon finally getting his sweet, sweet moment of daddy affirmation. And it is basically all so that he will shut up and put his phone in the bag. It's just, it's a really tough look and a really tough moment for admittedly a contemptible character, but one who only wants one thing and it's daddy's approval.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, no, he wants to.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, sorry. He wants a couple things. I, I want to step, step back.

[Joanna Robinson]

A couple of the big dogs to respect him. He does. You know, no one's a bigger Dog in his mind than his dad.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's the biggest dog.

[Joanna Robinson]

He is. Yeah. Tim, the unraveling that we're seeing here is sort of something I was really hoping for because I was just talking to our pal Van Lean about. He's been stuck speed binging White Lotus season one and season two because he's obsessed with season three and is like, I can't watch any more season three. I'm out. And I was like, go back and watch the previous seasons. So he has in the last, like, I don't know, 48 hours or something. But he was talking to me yesterday about the great unraveling. He was. He was like having a slow hang with season two and then he was like. He called it like the great unraveling. And I think that that is something that is, we know is so key to every season of White Lotus. This is just like watching Armand unravel or watching, you know, whoever it might be, Aubrey Plaza's character in season two, if you want to. If you want to call that an unraveling. And I do. And so this Tim, eyeballing Tim from the start as the person who would be the funniest to watch unravel and getting that so quickly in the season. It's. I think it's only up from here, honestly, with.

[Rob Mahoney]

With Laraza Panton, a lot of promising possibilities. You know, it's. I just don't think we're going to get the tsunami, Joe. We're going to get the tsunami of the soul. Right? We're going to. We're going to get Tim Ratliff being the man standing in front of the wave at the end of the day, I think is. Is what might happen.

[Joanna Robinson]

Metaphorically, of course.

[Rob Mahoney]

Metaphorically speaking. But one of our. One of our listeners, Bri, emailed in with an interesting thought that I had not considered, which is what if what exposed Tim. Tim Ratliff's crimes in the first place was something like Saxon's incompetence at work? Right. What if Saxon, our guy who is very Vincent Adultman in his. His. The way he talks about his job, like, I love work so much. I love job. I love being this guy, doesn't seem to know what he is doing for a living. I would imagine is not very good at. It would not surprise me one bit if an email sent to the wrong place by Saxon ended up resulting in this kind of investigation or ended up kind of moving some of the wheels in motion as far as how Tim ultimately got here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I mean, that feels like the Least of Saxon's potential crimes in this show, but I think it's definitely on the table for sure. Also on the Larazepam front, one of our listeners, Chris wrote in, you know, because, because Vic says, Vicki says they're not addictive. I just take them when I need them.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is not true.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is not deeply untrue about larazpam, which is not, Chris wanted to let us know, is not a sleeping pill, even though Tim is using them to get his nap reps in. This is an anti anxiety medication. This is sort of like a quick acting, sort of brief window. Are you afraid of flying? Take this Lorazepam as you like, you know, as you're taking off and you will make it through the flight, which is perhaps why Tim is like housing them because the window is small. So how many pills does Victoria have left in her bottle? I have, I have questions about that.

[Rob Mahoney]

And what's going to happen to her when she runs out? Right. Once, once Tim has consumed, once he's popped every pill there is to pop. I worry about Victoria at this point.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, that'll be so interesting because like it's one thing to watch Laraspam Tim become more and more unhinged.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sober. Sober. Victoria. I can't even imagine her.

[Joanna Robinson]

No. Who is she? I can't wait to find out. All right, so let's talk about Piper. And one of our listeners, Laura, pointed this out and I think it's really worth ruminating on this idea of the Piper archetype that we've gotten a version of each season on this show. And she points out Paula, who's Sydney Sweeney's friend in the first season and she mentioned Harper Aubrey Plaza's character in the second season, this person who's almost like a stand in for the audience who sort of like sees the hypocrisy, sees the shitty behavior, calls it out. You know, Piper has that great line about what the White Lotus actually is. And you know, right then the, the Blob blob come in, the fancies come in and they're Lululemon yoga. Like, you know, Piper's. Piper's got a keen eye on everything. But what usually happens in a season of White Lotus to those characters is that Mike White shows them like exposes them as sort of as fallible as, as vulnerable to the temptations of the, of the White Lotus experience or to shitty behavior or anything like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

So which I would say is a critical part of why the show works the way it does. Like you, you can't just have the preachy person off to the side commenting on everyone. Like, it's so much more interesting when those characters themselves can be co. Opted. Are susceptible to why everyone is here in the first place.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And I don't feel like Mike White's treatment of them is that he's, like, punishing them for their behavior, but just showing that we all are in a very similar, you know, luxury yacht, if you want to look forward to next week's episode. So, like, what do you see coming for Piper, who we got a little bit more information on when she went to go visit the monastery.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, that was such an interesting sequence for her because she goes, you know, she is greeted by this very friendly monk with a MacBook a monk book. She makes her appointment and then just breezes on out. And, like, my understanding from her, from both of these sequences, when she first goes to visit the temple and when she returns here and is like. Seems pretty deeply incurious, honestly, for somebody who wants to be potentially spending a year here in a program furthering her education, deepening her spirituality. Like, she makes her appointment, and then she doesn't even bother to look around to talk to anyone else, to even kind of, like, take in the scene. It's like, oh, job done. I'm up out of here.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's also very. It's very surface. Like. So this idea, it seems to be that Piper wants to do a program. However long she's going to stay there, we don't know. But this is not what she has pitched to her parents as to why she's there. So she wants to do a program where presumably she stays at the monastery for some period of time. And if. If it were me, I would want to see where are we sleeping at the monastery.

[Rob Mahoney]

Reasonable. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's. What's their daily schedule like? What is all of that? And it is very, yes, I think white girl privilege to be like, I'm gonna go to a monastery, Thailand, and everything is gonna be better, and I'm gonna be so enlightened, and I don't know anything about the practicalities of what this actually is. That sounds. That sounds absolutely correct to me.

[Rob Mahoney]

So she even kind of shoots a little glance to the tourists who are there in a way that's like a tiny little throwaway moment, but to me is very aloof and like, aha. Like, I am of this environment. Like, I will soon be a member of this place, and you are but a mere visitor, despite the fact that I actually know nothing about what it means to be here and live here or practice this faith at all exciting times.

[Joanna Robinson]

For Piper Atlan, I'm sure everything will go perfectly well for her. Sex. And mentions that they are invited on Greg Gary's boat. We'll talk about that a little bit more in a second for this, what he calls a, this full moon big holiday, which is a huge holiday in Thailand. Every full moon they celebrate with this like massive beach party in the island that's one over from where White Lotus is being filmed. And the description that I found was more than 12. More than 12 powerful sound systems turn the 800 meter beach into possibly the most popular open air nightclub in the world once a month. Once a month is like a, a heavy investment for like, we're putting on the world's biggest beach rave, but we're doing it every month. Any hopes or dreams for the full moon party? I mean, how can you, if you're Mike, wait and you're like, we're gonna set a season in Thailand and once a month they have the world's biggest beach rave on this island. How do you. Especially since, as we've heard over and over again that Mike White. The season came to Mike White in like a fever drug dream when he was in the hospital.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right?

[Joanna Robinson]

So how can you not say like, let's go to a Thai beach rave? Is this something you're excited for in a future episode of White Lotus?

[Rob Mahoney]

Without a doubt. I mean, I'm excited for the yacht trip over there and all of the exciting possibilities, especially as it seems like our groups are going to be intermingling a little bit in some potentially surprising ways. And we already get the developing love may be strong lust triangle between Greg, Garry, Chloe and Saxon, who have now been officially formally introduced and maybe raising some eyebrows at each other over one of them being a douche. Look, who am I to judge if someone has a type, you know they're into what they're into. But all of these people are going to be in one space with potentially as many rat lifts as want to come. I think Rick is assumingly going to be off in Bangkok, which is unfortunate because I would, I would love to see him get after it at the rave. I think the raving characters I am most excited about are those you would not anticipate ever ending up at a rave. So Victoria at a rave. Let's fucking go, right? Like, honestly, Gary at a rave. I want to see, I want to see what this guy is up to.

[Joanna Robinson]

Piper at a rave. Chelsea at a rave. I feel like I know exactly what that's like. And I love that for her.

[Rob Mahoney]

She was born in a rave.

[Joanna Robinson]

Life's a rave for Chelsea, Absolutely. Okay. To wrap up the Ratliffs as well as we can inside of their isolated storyline, Tim Ratliff. Let's go back to Laraza Pantom. We mentioned last week that we've gotten several emails about this concept of, like, family Annihilator, which you and I both.

[Rob Mahoney]

Were like, yeah, it seems slightly more plausible this week.

[Joanna Robinson]

Does it?

[Rob Mahoney]

A little bit. I still don't think White Lotus is that kind of show. And like, it's, it's. Honestly, Mike White has seemed over the years so conflicted about the murder part of White Lotus that the idea of wiping out, like, half the cast in a mass murder doesn't seem like what he is interested in. But I am willing and able to be surprised. Clearly.

[Joanna Robinson]

What about the idea of lorazepam, Tim, as the body in the water that Zion found? Whether or not that body in the water is dead? We actually don't. No, it's true. Certainly floating as if dead, but not confirmed dead, necessarily. So could that be lorazepam, Tim having, like, taken a stumble from the outdoor shower into the outdoor pond and.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, my God, I didn't even think about the outdoor shower. The, the, the falling risks of the outdoor shower while hopped up on lorazepam? Yeah, it's, it's a great theory. I, I think there's a very reasonable chance of that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who is he? Is Tim top of your list? Who's top of your list for, like.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who the body is?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think based on this week, I'm gonna say yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, Tim, I'm, I'm not rooting for you because you seem like you've done some shitty things. And in general, I don't, I don't root for rich people who have, who have embezzled money, but, you know, life is long. You didn't vote for Trump, though, did you? Are we really going to talk about Trump tonight? Let's talk about the, the fancies, the blonde ball.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's.

[Joanna Robinson]

Shall we? Okay. I want to ask you how you feel. I, I can't remember if Mal, Bill and I got into, like, the specifics of this. We talked about this a little bit, but, like, I'm really curious about Mike White's decision to, like, put Trump into.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

This season because, of course, last season we got the voter versus non voter conversation in the, in the two couples, and that was very like, sort of like Trump. Not Trump. Coded for sure. In a way. But to put Trump's name in there, again, making the season, not knowing how the election was going to pan out. How do you. How do you feel about that as a choice?

[Rob Mahoney]

Feels like it aligns with the show. I mean, this is a show that talks about privilege, that talks about class. Like, if you thought you were tuning into White Lotus to get away from the political sphere, I don't know what show you've been watching, and you are sadly mistaken, unfortunately. Like, this is a show that deals with the economic realities of these people and what they care about and don't care about what they value and don't value. Putting the name Trump in there, to me, is just an extension of that in this case, like a very sharp dividing wedge between these three women, one of whom is, you know, she's not a Republican, Joe. She is an independent. Let's. Let's. Let's be very honest about everything that's happening here.

[Joanna Robinson]

We really want to talk about Trump tonight, though. Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

The bless your heart magic that plays across Kate's face.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Unbelievable action from Bib eyes, full squint. Oh, my gosh. You know, so good.

[Joanna Robinson]

No teeth. Very good stuff from Leslie Bibb. Um, Rob is a Texan. How do you feel about Texas being invoked in this, in this particular way?

[Rob Mahoney]

Fair. That. That said she. Kate has said that she's from Austin.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think this is what someone would say if they are from the area more broadly. I'm gonna guess it's more Lakeway, bee Cave, like that. That's the kind of vibe that I'm getting from Kate's overall deal, which, as we can infer, is like country club husband, like, corporate high life. You know, she is. She's living a kind of privileged. Exist. Is not demographically Austin, but is certainly adjacent to Austin. Like, there's a lot of very white, very affluent, very conservative parts around the city proper.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know, I have spent a lot of. I go to Austin a couple times every year. I love, but I don't. I've never lived in Austin. I'm a mere visitor. So I'm not, like, trying to make any broad. Well, maybe I am, but anyway, Joe, go off.

[Rob Mahoney]

Say what you got to say.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love Austin. I love Austin. I will say I have had the most shocking things that have ever been said to me by a Lyft driver have been said to me by a Lyft driver in Austin. So can you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can you expand, please?

[Joanna Robinson]

Just racial stuff. I think I look like I might be receptive to someone saying things that I am not receptive to.

[Rob Mahoney]

So how does that make you feel? That that's the energy that you put out into the world feels great.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's like how people would never offer me drugs because they think I look like a narc. You know, it's just like, just my life. Something that the official podcast brought up that I thought was really interesting is the way that they transitioned inside of this conversation from talking about religion.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

To talking about Trumpism. And this idea of Trumpism as a kind of religion, a kind of belief system. Yep. In a way that previous political movements in America have not quite felt as, you know, cult. Like is one way to describe it or however. However you want to describe it. But like, this idea of, like, the. The figure. The figure that we follow sort of idea of Trumpism. And another thing that I thought was really interesting that Gia Tolentino brought up on the official podcast is this idea of, like, when we first meet the blonde blob as. As they are described by Mike White, Laurie says it's like looking a mirror, which is, of course, is something that, like, Jacqueline doesn't love to hear from Lori, by the way. But, like, how. How Mike White really wanted to make it seem like these women are not that different. And in so many ways, they aren't that different. Even though we've. We've. We've dialed in on certain things that they either share or don't share. We've got two women who are moms versus a woman who is not a mom. Or we've got two women who have invested a lot of time and money in, like, plastic surgery and stuff like that versus a woman who maybe hasn't woman women who have focused on the career versus not all this sort of stuff. So, like, these various little differences, what's the biggest wedge you can drive? Is it Trumpism? Is it something else? But then at the end of the day, how actually similar they are and how interesting I think that is inside of this sort of Trump conversation of like, Laurie and Jacqueline are like, oh, no, Keith is so different from us. We did not realize how different she is. And then the question is actually, how different is a white privileged woman who votes for Trump versus a white privileged woman who doesn't vote for Trump inside of this context? I think that's the question the show is asking.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it is too. I think it's. It's so powerful in that way because you're right. These are three women who have a lot of things in common at the same time, are in Quite different places. But they are paired off in all of those fascinating ways. Like, I hadn't even thought about the career, like, the careerist aspect and how Jacqueline and Laurie might have that potentially in common. And we get to see them spend some quality time together, if at Kate's expense, for a lot of this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But, like, it's cool to see all of these different ways in which it is naturally two versus one in every possible direction within this friend group. And that only works if it feels balanced. If you're gonna create this dynamic, like, you could write the show around having a very clear in group, out group. But it's more interesting if it's sort of a revolving door, and one of them is always feeling a little bit left out of whatever's happening.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think what I have my eye on most inside of this group in terms of things I'm worried about or suspicious about.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is Jacqueline has had a few speeches now that seem very much like a I'm a girl's girl kind of speech, like talking about the patriarchal nature of religion or that. And the other thing, a lot of.

[Rob Mahoney]

Masculine, feminine in this episode, like, very directly called out.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I don't trust that Jacqueline Lemon is a girl's girl. At the end of the day, I do not think that that is her energy at all. And I am. I'm worried about the way in which she's pushing Valentina.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Lori.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I'm worried about how that is all going to shake out at the end of the day.

[Rob Mahoney]

Feels like a real swooping in situation for Jacqueline potentially. I liked what you mentioned, Joe, on the Sunday pod, about the flex of Jacqueline here, of it's not just pushing Laurie, but let me help you set this up. Let me make this happen for you. Not dissimilar from what Saxon is doing with Lockie. Right. Like, all hands on deck. Like, I'm gonna hook you up. I'm gonna show you how to do this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And the dynamic between the two women is a little different, but it is very much like pushing in a way that feels like projecting in a way that feels like Jacquelyn really wants to sleep with Valentine. And you can. You can imagine a scenario where maybe Laurie does get some confidence. Maybe she does end up pursuing Valentin. And Jacqueline kind of interjects herself into that dynamic at a time where she may not be as welcome as she is right now, 100%. But in all of this, Laurie is feeling, like, a little tentative at the beginning of this episode about that very idea. She talks about how, you know what, he probably wouldn't even want it anyway. Joe. He probably wouldn't be interested in someone like me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Carl. Carrie Coon.

[Rob Mahoney]

Meanwhile, in real life, I don't know if you caught this last week, but Carrie Coon went on the Marin podcast and was talking about her relationship with the legend Tracy Letts. Their marriage. There was a bit of a misunderstanding where listeners thought she had nodded in the direction of like, actually, maybe we have an open marriage, maybe of an open relationship listener. Let me tell you, the Internet fucking exploded. So Carrie Coon herself, getting lots of interest from parties she is not even remotely interested in reciprocating. Our girl Laurie is just going through it though. She doesn't, she doesn't seem to understand her appeal to the world.

[Joanna Robinson]

Will you tell me, Rob, given that, like, tell me a little bit more about the way in which the Internet exploded when they thought Carrie Coon might be on the table for them, she.

[Rob Mahoney]

Had to issue a follow up statement in which she said that her relationship, she described it as open minded, describing their kind of more modern sensibilities across the board, not open. And of note for our White Lotus purposes, in that statement did the speak no, hear no, see no evil monkey emojis all lined up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Interesting.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is it good? Guerrilla marketing is a good monkey marketing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, nice. Carrie knows how to play social media. I got to say, it's true. I love her. Won Goggins. I already said on the pod with Bella and Mal how excited I was for Grifter Goggins to enter the chat here. Tell me, tell me how you felt for Rick to step out of the doom and gloom into the con man Persona that we are so used to seeing. Walton Goggins. What did that do for you personally? Rob A. Honey.

[Rob Mahoney]

It brought an incredible light to my life to see Goggins in charmer mode again. And this is relatively muted by Goggin standards. He. I'm actually starting to believe the Rick has a perpetual migraine commentary and that it's maybe not just an excuse to get out of these conversations because he always seems very burdened by something. Very burdened by clearly his upbringing. I'm sure some level of constant anxiety. Like my guy needs to smoke so fucking bad in this episode that he has to go on a whole ass odyssey to get some weed.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

So I understand where he's coming from, but he can turn it on when he needs to turn it on. And it's certainly enough to kind of start putting his plan in motion here with Sri La as far as. How do we get to Bangkok? How do we. Sorry. Tough scenes for Fabian in this episode as well. You think you know somebody. You think you know how to pronounce their name. Turns out you've been mistaken for a very long time. But, yeah, Rick is getting where he needs to go ultimately. And as far as Chelsea's part of that, I will say probably knows more than she's letting on and is more aware of what is happening and is kind, I think, just kind of like letting everything roll off her back and allowing the universe to play out as it does. But she seems too perceptive to be oblivious to the fact that Rick is weird and shady and is, like, doing all these random little jobs all the time. He's doing something.

[Joanna Robinson]

Something. You know, Walton Goggins and Amy Lee would have been doing a lot of interviews around this episode. This seems to be the, like, HBO's like, this is the a Rick and Chelsea epis. You know, I guess because they go to the snake show, etc. And they've been talking a lot about, like, sort of the background of Rick and Chelsea. Goggins has said that they've been together for, like, three years. You know, Amy Lou has said she. She genuinely believes they're actually soulmates and that there is this idea that their relationship has not always been this. That this is a very different phase of Rick's life that he is having. I think the way that Goggins put it was like a midlife crisis. And, you know, so the idea that Chelsea's like, come on, what are you doing? Snap out of it. Let's have fun. Is not just like her sort of beating her head against a wall like that. There is a version of Rick that she has traveled with before that has been very different from the Rick that she's experiencing at the White Lotus here. And so, um, I like knowing that, because I'm just like, girl, what are we doing here? But if this is, like, an unusual moment in the life of a partner who has been matching her energy, if not quite exactly her level of energy, like, who. Who could.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're like nuclear power plants that cannot produce that much energy. Yeah, but look, there's plenty in this for her, right? Like, she gets to be at this nice resort. She gets to experience this kind of life and enjoy all the privileges of it. Like, it is interesting to hear that, though, that maybe at one point in time they had an arrangement, and now it seems like they have a relationship, Right? Like her using soulmate, her talking about being his Life partner. Right. That is a. Maybe overstating what their relationship is from Rick's perspective, but I think it's indicative of a certain level of seriousness as far as what they are to each other.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's what Chelsea has always wanted from him, which is just sort of like, I see you. You need me. I'm going to be that for you. But something that Amy Li Wood said on the official podcast that, like, really kind of blew my mind. She was like, she keeps accusing Rick of being secretive and walled off. You know, all this stuff is focused on Rick and what he's hiding. She's like, but we actually know so much about Rick, and we don't know anything about Chelsea.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's true.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's just like. She has sort of successfully hidden her life behind this, like, very bubbly, outgoing, not Persona, because I do think that's actually who she is, but just sort of like the way she moves to the world. She's asking other people about themselves, and she's got this insatiable curiosity, which means she doesn't ever have to talk about herself.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Which is really interesting.

[Rob Mahoney]

Kind of a different breed of people pleaser from Lachi. Right. There's the version where you try to mediate conflict or step out of it in the way he does. And she is a de escalator in a totally different way. She can bring people together. She can talk them down. She can make Rick perk up in spots here and there in a way that no one else can. Bless Chelsea and her presence on this show. It's wonderful. Every single time and in very good spirits for someone who just got bitten by a fucking liberated cobra. Cobra.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then she made it to dinner.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I mean, no problem.

[Joanna Robinson]

If it were me, I would simply not be leaving the room. Nope, the dinner would be coming to me. Bill very, very, I think, correctly identified me as someone who seems like they should know things about astrology.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're someone who seems like you should know things about astrology. And also someone who looks like they would be receptive to a Lyft driver's rants.

[Joanna Robinson]

We. We contain multitudes, Rachel.

[Rob Mahoney]

We truly do.

[Joanna Robinson]

None of it's true. Do you know anything about astrology, Ramoni?

[Rob Mahoney]

I imagine I don't look like somebody who would know something about astrology, so.

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe you'll surprise us.

[Rob Mahoney]

But sometimes our preconceptions are correct. And I, in fact, do not. Not my area of expertise.

[Joanna Robinson]

What is your sign?

[Rob Mahoney]

Cancer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Cancer. I don't know. I'm gonna say that. Like, that means Something, but I just nod.

[Rob Mahoney]

You just say something vague and ominous and I'll go along with it. You know, a water sign, emotional. I don't know. I don't know the specifics of what it means to be a cancer, but I'm sure our listeners can let us know, please. We didn't mention up top. Please do email us about anything going on with White Lotus, prestigetvpotify.com or more importantly, monkeyshootoutmail.com thanks so much for mentioning that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Speaking of emails we got and monkey shootouts, we had a couple emails about Sita La's outfit at breakfast that she's wearing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's this like, it's this sort of tan button down, sort of loose fitting thing with this like black. What looks to be almost like an ink spot or some people said they thought it looked like a large bullet hole or one of our listeners, Dave, pointed out to me, rightly so that I would know about this, and I do. In pirate culture, the black spot means you're marked for death. You receive the black spot, it means death is coming for you.

[Rob Mahoney]

So I'm glad you could bring the pirate expertise. You know, you may have missed the mark on astrology, but no racism.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rants, no, but pirate, I do have it. And yeah. So the black spot on. Would that be a satisfying death for you this season? Potentially, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it depends on the way that she kind of weaves into the story of these other characters. Right. If she is just sort of the person who owns the hotel and vaguely interacts and sometimes performs and then dies, that's not super interesting. But if strange things happen in Bangkok, if she becomes even more intertwined with the fancies, even more intertwined with Rick as in whatever game he's playing here and Rick as he's kind of gearing up to talk to her in the first place. There's so much Rick Snake stuff happening in this episode overall, but he's very predatory in terms of the way he's almost stalking her to her table, kind of judging the scene, waiting for his moment. And I don't know how to interpret that within the context of whether she dies or not, but certainly as far as the game he's playing, it does make sense.

[Joanna Robinson]

That is really interesting. When they were at the snake show, among other things.

[Rob Mahoney]

First of all, would never go to a snake show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely not.

[Rob Mahoney]

No circumstances.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely not. But the guy running the snake show, who it was like, is like a local guy who runs snake shows.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, he's a fucking pro. Like, he's Great. Good information, great delivery. Knows his way around a cobra. Like, I would trust those guys with my life. I just don't want to go to the snake show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely not. He mentions that the python can kill a big animal. And we mentioned, I think we mentioned this before, that, this idea that in some of the opening credit images, we've seen sort of a smaller animal taking on a predator. I think specifically, I would say in like the Chelsea, the Amylou Wood Chelsea title card. So, like, this idea that we've had these predators, if you want to say Rick at breakfast or Saxon in the pool or, you know, Tim Ratliff in.

[Rob Mahoney]

Life or Gary doing whatever it is he's doing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Jacqueline Lemon on the hunt for Valentin. Whatever it is. Like. But are we not paying enough attention to, you know, the smaller threats who could take something on something worth thinking about? Speaking of smaller threats, time for our weekly nice guy talk. Check in with, with Rob Mahoney. Where are you?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I just want to read a list of what guy talk was up to this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Tries to parlay getting pistol whipped in the head into a bodyguard job. Okay. He gets no indication whatsoever that Sweetala is interested in him being her bodyguard. No, no affirmation whatever, like, whatsoever. But that does not stop him from flagging down Mook as she's talking with her friends and walking with her friends to give her this non update about his life. Very important to him that she knows all about it. Hollinger's bodyguards. Then come to him and ask him to please chill. In fact, maybe you were closer to losing your job than getting promoted to being a bodyguard.

[Joanna Robinson]

The character of that conversation, how would you describe it? They come to bully him. Little turkey wants to be a rooster.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm going to say some people, some people deserve to be bullied sometimes. Joe, this guy is, he's, he is way too big for his britches right now, when all that he did was fail in his job. Like, the stance that he should maybe be fired for this, I actually think is pretty reasonable. Right. Like, he had one job and it's don't let cars zoom in and out of here. And he did both.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, yes. Listen, I'm not saying he deserves a promotion. I don't think he should be a Hollinger bodyguard because I'm very bad at it. I don't, I think he'd be bad at it. I don't want that for him. But I, I just. Okay, we gotta. We got an email from our listener, Hank, and I think it's It's a. It's a good perspective whether or not you're right. I actually don't know if you're gonna be right at the end of the day, and I'm gonna look like an if. I mean, Guy talk. I have no idea.

[Rob Mahoney]

This girl can't even hang out with her friends without getting cornered by this guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my God, she. Whatever.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, I. I want to interrogate a little bit because I think a lot of people interpret Mook's reactions to Guy Talk in which she is very smiley and I think generally friendly as her being interested in his advances. She has expressed no such interest at any point to anything he has said. It has all been a polite smile, a nod, I will see you later. A very, like, friendly exchange. Like she's being polite to him and he is going way hard all the time in a way that to me spells trouble.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, you might be right. And I will look like an asshole. And that's a reality that I'm willing to accept. I happen to believe that the Mook and Guy Talk story is very sweet. And I think there's a way in which Mike White is actually kind of a romantic. I do agree with that and all these other things. Obviously, we're rooting for Chelsea and Rick to figure it out, but our listener, Hank Ronin, just to sort of put some. Hank who says he's from sort of a similarly like his. His family's from a similarly, like, non urban, small Southeast Asian village environment, he said, where everyone is locally employed service worker, content to not be a farmer or hard laborer. The still pervasive historical context of parents approving matches and stable income being quite enough for a satisfactory marriage shouldn't be discounted as just quote nice guy vibes. Whether or not Mook is looking for an exotic baddie a la Season two's Portia is separate from this context. It could simply be Mike White's own creative liberty and I dare say personal injection into an otherwise ho hum but stable lifestyle. Just giving a perspective as someone whose ancestral roots are part of that world. So this idea that, like the conversation that Mook and Gaitak have had at lunch in a previous episode where he was like, talking about his mom and they've known each other forever, her brothers, all that stuff.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it's like on the one hand, from our sort of 2025American perspective, we're like, is this the move? But, you know, perhaps in the environment that they live in, that is the move, you know, so.

[Rob Mahoney]

But he, he made that pitch And I would not say she jumped at it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think she jumped at it. I just don't think she said hard. No, no.

[Rob Mahoney]

But they might have the like, look, if both of us are single in 20 years, let's figure this thing out kind of arrangement. But I just, I don't see this going well for guy talk.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. We also saw him leave an offering of bananas at a shrine and I thought that was very cool. The four headed God, which is called the Erewhon Shrine, which has nothing to do with really expensive smoothies that you can get in la. Okay. Belinda and Pornchai.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Speaking of love stories to believe in, how are you feeling about this?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it's lovely. Belinda had herself a day.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, the Gary business aside, you know, she gets a great treatment. She gets shown around the grounds. She gets to spend some quality time with Pornchai being like held tenderly in a pool. Like, what is, what is the going rate for that? Or is that kind of an off menu thing?

[Joanna Robinson]

Priceless. Honestly.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm just saying it seems nice. I would do it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

If Pornch I would. Would volunteer at my expense to hold me tenderly in a pool and help me kind of levitate and float. That sounds. Sounds like a lovely afternoon bliss.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then he like sort of, you know, has this awkward little goodbye with her. Pornchai has had too much, AKA like one beer too much for him. And then Belinda hears something in her villa. Is that what we were meant to believe? Not see something. Right? She hears something.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Could you kind of identify what you think she was reacting to? Because it's hard to tell sometimes amid an amazing score. Like I love the score of White Lotus. And we get to kind of like calls of the wild in like the monkey like sounds of the jungle sense. And also some like calls of the wild in every other conceivable sense happening in that score.

[Joanna Robinson]

Some very loud moaning.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very loud moaning happening, you know, through yoga during some of these scenes where characters are alone and kind of steaming about each other in various ways. So I don't quite know what she's identifying. It sounds like maybe kind of like a creaking door, like a step on wood. Like I couldn't quite identify it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know I was. I kept going back through. I was like, am I supposed to see something out the window? Is there a shadow in the. I think it's just a noise and I don't know what that noise is. You know, one has to worry that it's Greg Gary up to no good, but.

[Rob Mahoney]

Or A monkey with a gun or.

[Joanna Robinson]

A monkey with a gun.

[Rob Mahoney]

You don't know. It could be anything.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or a snake. Okay. How do you feel about Chekhov's toilet snake being introduced into this episode as a potential thing that could kill you?

[Rob Mahoney]

This is a very primal fear that I have had. I have not had nightmares about this, but it's one of those things where you read that news story, or like, in my case, it was on the local news or something when I was, like, 8 years old. And it gets wedged in your brain.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And then what are you to do about toilet snakes? You're defenseless.

[Joanna Robinson]

I used to read a lot of Dave Barry columns, and he wrote one about alligators, baby alligators coming up out of the. Out of the sewer. What, like in Florida?

[Rob Mahoney]

Are they coming out of gutters or where are they coming from?

[Joanna Robinson]

I could not tell you. And perhaps he made them up, but that, yes, I will say I haven't had dreams about them, but I have had thoughts about toilet gators. It might be something that is untrue, but it's something that Dave Barry wrote about that I believed in.

[Rob Mahoney]

So how did you feel, Joe, about Rick, as someone who believes very deeply in the freedom of snakes? You know, just a liberator at the end of the day, I think this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Could not quite possibly be clear as a metaphor for him feeling like he's in a cage and needs. Needs to break out. We have. People have been noting this snake motif because there is first the snake. Like, first the snake choker that Chelsea was looking at in the boutique when. During the smash and grab, which I.

[Rob Mahoney]

Would think we have to see again. Right. It was so pointedly on camera that it's like, we will see it on someone, and that'll give us a tip as to who may have committed the robbery. I would.

[Joanna Robinson]

Chloe, do not put that snake choker on, even if you were part of the. Of the robbery. Okay, so there's the snake choker, and then, of course, there is the snake that literally bites her inside this episode. Something that Amy Lee Wood said in an interview. She was like, basically, Chelsea's the kind of person who goes through lives and sees snakes and just embrace them without any care of the worry of the danger that they might present. She's just like, oh, you're a snake. I want to hug you. Never mind. You're poisonous.

[Rob Mahoney]

Chelsea, you. You cannot fix that cobra. You can't. You cannot fix him.

[Joanna Robinson]

But can she fix Rick? Fix Rick? You know, like, what are we going to do?

[Rob Mahoney]

No, please. Sorry. I Didn't mean interrupt.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, no, go ahead.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do wonder this about Rick, though, because you're right about the. The metaphor, which is very clear on the surface. Him in the cage, the snakes in the cage, him feeling restrained in that way. But as he's kind of talking it out with Chelsea, there's a lot of discussion about snakes being inherently evil. Right. And you get. You get this bit from Rick about, well, even evil things shouldn't be treated like shit because it only makes them more evil. And as a reflection of people treating him a certain way because of what he admits are the bad things that he's done, we don't really know what those are yet. Understandable. Putting it in context and understanding his worldview as it applies to whatever he's after with Hollinger is a little bit more complicated because we have every indication, Joe, that you were correct, that Rick is trying to get some kind of revenge, satisfaction, some kind of satisfaction, as he says. A lot of signs pointing directly to the idea that Hollinger probably murdered his father or was involved in some way, and he's looking for satisfaction. But in that case, is Hollinger not also a snake? Is he not also someone who is not inherently evil and, like, shouldn't be. It shouldn't be met with purely evil in response?

[Joanna Robinson]

It really strikes me as Satisfaction, by the way, as a lot of people pointed out, is, like, iconic. Like, dual language. Like, I demand satisfaction, like I demand a duel.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought you meant dual language, but you mean dual. Like, dual language.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, this is a dog. Yes, dual.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought you were talking about the other kinds of satisfaction that Chelsea is hooking him up with.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, there you go. Also true. But. But I think that Rick. I just really fundamentally feel like Rick is someone who is at a crossroads. And on one bridge of the road is Chelsea, and on the other branch of the road is Jim Hollinger, Bangkok Satisfaction. And one is a good choice and one is a bad choice. And I genuinely don't know, based on previous seasons of White Lotus, what choice Rick is going to write.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm rooting for him to take the Chelsea branch of the road. But we've. I've rooted for so many characters in White Lotus, and they have disappointed me. Can't do it. I don't. I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not the show for it. The. The bit of foreshadowing I am most concerned with at this point is not a dead body, is not Chelsea almost dying several times in this episode. It's her holding up a tank that Says, you break it, you buy it with a broken heart on it. And saying, should I buy this? Just does not seem like things are going to go well for her at the end of the day. And I hope. I hope Rick Snake or not makes some kind of choice that makes sense for both of them. I just. I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm very worried about everyone. And that's exactly where we should be. Episode three of White Lotus. Okay, to wrap up, we got this fun prompt from our listener Sean, which may or may not be tangentially related to an upcoming episode, the rewatchables. Who can say? But Sean says, between Jennifer Coolidge and Parker Posey, it seems like my White really excels at dipping into the Christopher Guest mockumentary talent pool. Which two Christopher guest stars would you like to see in season four? One hotel staff and one guest. And just for people who are listening, in case you don't know, the great filmmaker Christopher Guest, he made things like Waiting for Guffman a mighty win. Best in show.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is final.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tap did not make Spinal Tap. And for your consideration and mask us a couple other things. So. And he has a stable of actors that he likes to use.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Jennifer Coolidge being a repeat offender. Parker Posey as well. Parker Posey in Waiting for Guffman is one of my favorite things I've ever seen.

[Rob Mahoney]

She would have pre White Lotus. If you told me and you gave me this prompt and you told me the general construction of the show, Parker Posey would be my first round pick. So dreams really do come true.

[Joanna Robinson]

They do. Jennifer Coolidge, sneaky star, obviously. Tanya being crucial to all three seasons of White Lotus. Double emmy award winner Jennifer Coolidge. So, Rob Mahoney.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Of the. The classic Christopher Guest stable, who are you picking to check in at the White Lotus and who are you picking to work at the White Lotus?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm gonna say we might have to, like, step out of time a little bit just because some of the cast of these movies are getting quite up there. And so it would limit them to basically being like elderly grandparental figures popping into these stories, which would also be fine. And I would be open to. To me, the guest. I would love Fred Willard on this show as sort of like an ecstatic, overly friendly in everyone's business kind of guest in a way that I feel like we don't get often enough. Right. We have a lot of rich people who kind of want to be in their little pods and not enough of them who want aggressively to be friends with everyone. And I would love him in a. In a context like this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Except for Kate, who was like, remember? We were at that.

[Rob Mahoney]

But she doesn't even want to be friends. She just wants to make the social connection and get the capital and then go back to her table.

[Joanna Robinson]

Don't you remember me? I talk about beans a lot. Is that not interesting to you?

[Rob Mahoney]

Can you imagine the bean talk at that baby shower? It was off the, off the charts.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's talking about heritage beans. She has a lot to say. Okay, so you've got Fred Willard as a guest. Who do you have working at the White Lotus?

[Rob Mahoney]

Our old friend and recent friend, Joe. Bob Balaban feels like he would be great to work the staff at the White Lotus.

[Joanna Robinson]

I almost picked Bob Alabama, but I was really hoping you would pick Bob Baba.

[Rob Mahoney]

How can you not like, he just. He reads as neurotic and exacting so easily that the idea of a bunch of rich, privileged guests winding him up is not a stretch of the imagination.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have chosen for my guest, Michael McKean.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Of, you know, Better Call Saul and other fame, obviously. I just think he would do a really good job as, like, a disgruntled guest at the White Lotus.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just like he's often quite disgruntled, honestly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Patriarch of the family, comically disgruntled. Giving real Chuck vibes from Better Call Saul. And then John Michael Higgins as, as a hotel manager, I love John Michael Higgins. I think he's a really stealth, like, lethal performer in these, in these Christopher Guest movies. And also done a lot of great voice acting work. You might know him from Legends of Korra, among other things. And I just think as like a hotel manager who was like, so good at putting on the, like, smarmy front while actively hating you, I think he would be absolutely killer at that. So neither of us went for Eugene Levy or Catherine O'Hara, couple obvious picks, Jane lynch, anything like that?

[Rob Mahoney]

I feel like Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hare have already done, like, crass rich person pretty recently. And so I'm.

[Joanna Robinson]

And also I'm good hotel management quite recently.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very true. Like, we've seen it, admittedly in a slightly different flavor, but let's, let's branch it out a little bit.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree. Okay. If you have any thoughts about Christopher, Guest regular who should show up in White Lotus, I'd love to Hear it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Please.

[Joanna Robinson]

Monkeyshootoutmail.com or prestige tvotify.com Anything else you want to say about this episode or White Lotus in general? Before we go, Rahoney, I had just.

[Rob Mahoney]

Had A bit of a feeling with Chloe, who's played by Charlotte Le Bon. As far as, like, she. She was registering in my brain as very familiar, and I couldn't put a finger on why. And in this episode, it finally kind of clicked for me that she has such a Winona Ryder thing going on. Just like kind of a resemblance in a way. Very different energies, very different kind of places. In terms of, like, this is not a Winona part, but there's some kind of similarity there that's grabbing me.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's been reminding me of Kristen Ritter a lot.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not energy wise, but wise for sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

What do we think of her? And of Chloe and Saxon, we wouldn't really remark upon their budding friendship.

[Joanna Robinson]

I hear you're a douche. Isn't that what she says?

[Rob Mahoney]

But she's into it, you know?

[Joanna Robinson]

Is she into it or is he a mark? I can't tell.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's into something. She's into the idea of it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, he definitely looks wealthy. And that is something that she seems interested in. So love that for her. I don't know. Are you rooting for those two crazy kids?

[Rob Mahoney]

I cannot bring myself to root for them, but I will be watching, watching with great curiosity where their relationship goes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Great. Okay, so that does it for season three, episode three of the White Lotus. Robin, I will be back at the end of the week to talk more severance. Exciting. We should note that Bill and Mal and I are also covering White Lotus immediately after the episode ends. On Sunday nights, you can watch all of this stuff.

[Rob Mahoney]

One note on that you guys mentioned in the last Sunday podcast, vis a vis Guy Talk. I take this with great consideration. I've thought about it. I've talked to my agents. I will not be hosting the Creep Radar podcast despite the fact that it was so graciously offered to me.

[Joanna Robinson]

You haven't seen the art we've created for it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I have not. But also, who simply has the time? There are so many creeps. There are only so many hours in the day. I could not be bothered.

[Joanna Robinson]

You are but one, Rob. Seriously. Okay, well, we'll let. We'll let you. We'll let Bill know. That's your formal, polite pass.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let him down gently, please.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so you watch all of those, including Rob's new show. What is it? Creep Detector?

[Rob Mahoney]

Creep Radar?

[Joanna Robinson]

Radar.

[Rob Mahoney]

All because I am empirically, increasingly right about guy Talk. That that should qualify me for the job. But I don't want it on the.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ringer TV channel, on YouTube, or on in Spotify. You know, you just open the thing in there. It's us talking. So that is what is going on also. We hear you. We will be back to the pit. We cannot tell you exactly when, but we will be back. And thank you to Donnie Beacham for this episode, To John Richter, who was, like, literally breaking his back to put out all this video content for you guys. To CTA for being the best and helping out this morning, and Justin Sales, always the guy. We will see you soon. Bye.