‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4: Final Destination Sh*t

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast Summary
Episode: ‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 4: Final Destination Sht*
Release Date: March 10, 2025
Host/Authors: The Ringer Crew (Bill Simmons, Mallory Rubin, Joanna Robinson, Tate Frazier, and more)

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, the rotating cast of The Prestige TV Podcast delves deep into the intricacies of The White Lotus Season 3, Episode 4, titled "Final Destination Sh*t." The hosts dissect pivotal plot developments, character evolutions, and thematic elements, offering listeners both seasoned and new a comprehensive analysis of the latest installment.

---

Key Plot Points Discussed

The hosts begin by summarizing significant events from the episode, focusing on the escalating tensions among the characters and the introduction of new dynamics aboard the yacht.

• Tim Ratliff's Descent:
  Bill Simmons highlights Tim Ratliff's troubling actions, noting, "Tim Ratliff now has a gun" (04:10). The discussion centers on Tim's increasing instability, exacerbated by his addiction to lorazepam and alcohol.

• Yacht Party Dynamics:
  The podcast delves into the interactions on the yacht, emphasizing the strained relationships and brewing conflicts. Joanna Robinson remarks, "White Lotus is always beautiful, but this was a gorgeous episode" (03:38), highlighting the juxtaposition of aesthetic beauty against underlying chaos.

• Security and Betrayal:
  A recurring theme is the distrust among staff and guests. Bill Simmons points out, "This is a three-season theme, though, is the staff having real contempt for the people who stay at the hotel" (17:08), underscoring the persistent tension in the narrative.

---

Character Developments

• Rick Hollinger's Revelation:
  The hosts explore Rick's backstory, discussing his claims about his father and the possibility of Rick harboring darker intentions. Mallory Rubin theorizes, "I believe he's gonna find out one of two things: either that just Jim Hollinger straight up" (50:24), suggesting potential twists in Rick's motivations.

• Piper's Transformation:
  Joanna Robinson analyzes Piper's decision to attend the monastery, questioning her genuine commitment versus superficial engagement. "I think Piper's 'I'm better than you' is gonna bite her in the ass. That's Mike White's" (40:51), she speculates on Piper's forthcoming challenges.

• Greg Gary's Hidden Agenda:
  The podcast discusses Greg Gary's conservative façade, with Bill Simmons asserting, "He's a very good restrained performance, and I think it's hard to pull off" (46:32), hinting at his possible ulterior motives.

---

Themes and Symbolism

• Identity and Deception:
  The episode's title, "Final Destination Sh*t," suggests impending consequences of the characters' actions. Joanna Robinson connects this to a recurring theme, stating, "Locky taking this book about identity and identity being a prison" (22:07), exploring how characters grapple with self-perception and external expectations.

• Dormant Threats:
  The presence of weapons and latent violence is a central motif. Bill Simmons notes, "We have a literal Chekhov's gun in this episode of Timothy" (04:10), indicating that seemingly minor elements may culminate in significant plot twists.

• Cultural Clash and Misunderstanding:
  Set in Thailand, the show continues to examine the cultural tensions between Westerners and locals. Mallory Rubin observes, "Are you wanting to party with the Russians or hang out on the boat with the con men and the tax cheats?" (08:32), highlighting the cultural dissonance portrayed in the series.

---

Theories and Predictions

The hosts engage in lively speculation about the episode's unresolved threads and potential developments in future episodes.

• Tim Ratliff's Fate:
  Concerned about Tim's trajectory, Mallory Rubin suggests, "This puts Tim actually down the he's gonna die list" (61:33), contemplating whether Tim will succumb to his addictions or meet a tragic end.

• Rick Hollinger's True Intentions:
  The possibility of Rick being a hitman or having sinister motives is debated. Joanna Robinson questions, "Does that mean he's a hitman?" (60:12), pondering Rick's true role in the unfolding drama.

• Potential Overlaps with Other Shows:
  Bill Simmons humorously imagines crossovers, such as characters from Succession appearing on the yacht, adding a layer of meta-commentary to the discussion (42:20).

---

Notable Quotes

• Bill Simmons on Tim's instability:
  “Tim Ratliff now has a gun.” (04:10)

• Joanna Robinson on the episode's beauty:
  "White Lotus is always beautiful, but this was a gorgeous episode." (03:38)

• Mallory Rubin on Rick's backstory:
  "I don't believe any of that is true. I think he's gonna find out one of two things." (50:24)

• Joanna Robinson on Piper's character arc:
  "I think Piper's 'I'm better than you' is gonna bite her in the ass. That's Mike White's." (40:51)

• Bill Simmons on Chekhov's gun:
  "We have a literal Chekhov's gun in this episode of Timothy." (04:10)

---

Conclusions

The Prestige TV Podcast team provides a multifaceted analysis of The White Lotus Season 3, Episode 4, emphasizing the show's blend of dark comedy, drama, and suspense. By examining character motivations, thematic elements, and plot intricacies, the hosts offer listeners a nuanced understanding of the episode's developments. Their predictions and theories set the stage for anticipated twists in upcoming episodes, maintaining high engagement and anticipation among fans.

The episode's exploration of identity, deception, and cultural tensions continues to resonate, reinforcing why The White Lotus remains a captivating watch. The hosts' insightful commentary and dynamic interactions ensure that both longtime viewers and newcomers find value and entertainment in their discussions.

---

Note: All timestamps [MM:SS] correspond to moments within the provided transcript where notable quotes or discussions occur.

Transcript

[Mallory Rubin]

This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate.

[Joanna Robinson]

Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee.

[Mallory Rubin]

So when they heard that the new season of HBO's the White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors. Thai iced coffee and pina colada flavored creamers.

[Joanna Robinson]

They're available for a short time only, so for the love of coffee, go try them now.

[Tate Frazier]

Hello there, friends of the program. It's Tate Frazier, and it's officially that special time of the year where we go on a march through madness together for the 85th edition of the NCAA tournament. What makes March so special, you ask? Well, it's the unknown. It's the fact that this is basically Survivor on a basketball court on CBS without Jeff Probes. And no matter how much you prepare, you cannot predict this kind of chaos. And that is what we will be covering on this podcast. One shining podcast. All the madness, all the David versus Goliath personified. It's the best show in town. The ball is tipped. And here you are with us. Come listen and join us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mallory Rubin]

This episode is brought to you by Focus Features. Presenting Black Bag. Starring Cate Blanchett, Michael Fassbender, and directed by Steven Soderbergh. This electrifying new film brings together two legendary spies joined in a marriage of love and deception. When they begin to suspect each other, betrayal, a dangerous game begins. Who is the traitor and who will survive? Smart, sexy and surprising, it will keep you guessing till the very end. Black Bag. Rated R under 17. Not admitted without parent. Only in theaters March 14, with special engagements in Dolby.

[Bill Simmons]

The prestige TV podcast. Episode 4, White Lotus. Mallory Rubin is here. Joanna Robinson is here. You can listen and watch them on House of R. That's right. We've been breaking down Lotus. This is the closest I've ever come to having an HR violation with Mal during. We have a penis scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

I can't believe this is the closest it's gotten.

[Bill Simmons]

I almost sent a picture of it to Mal being like, what? That doesn't look real to me. And I was like, oh, I guess I can't. Save it for the rules. I can't.

[Joanna Robinson]

Guys, can we get that up on the monitor?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Can you put this.

[Joanna Robinson]

We'd like to go frame by frame.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So, I mean, any episode with a penis stunt. Penis conversation.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm prepared.

[Mallory Rubin]

I feel like it's always solicited from I'm prepared.

[Joanna Robinson]

I welcome the discussion today in this bargain studio for retirees.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, how sad is it when I see a scene like that? And I immediately. And both of us texted Mel. We're like, oh, boy.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's not just.

[Mallory Rubin]

It means that we know her truly spiritual level.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's go.

[Bill Simmons]

It's pure affection.

[Joanna Robinson]

And you said something for Mal in the first 10 minutes of the episode. And I replied, is it a cat or a penis?

[Mallory Rubin]

And I said, is it a cat?

[Joanna Robinson]

And I was right. It was a penis. Sadly, no cats.

[Bill Simmons]

There's only two choices. Well, this was the full moon episode. We end the episode. We end the episode driving to a full moon.

[Joanna Robinson]

Incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

And we broke the timeline. This is a.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is all.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So this is it, right? This is where we get our eighth episode. Season is this day is the All Nighter ends early. And next episode, episode five is just going to be that one night. Is that what we think? That's where we get the extra episode cinematography. Heading toward that moon, but just in general. The yacht traveling around the islands.

[Mallory Rubin]

This was.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, White Lotus is always beautiful, but this was a gorgeous episode.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did. Did it make you want to go to Thailand and get on a boat?

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's get a chance.

[Bill Simmons]

This definitely put it a little closer. Yeah, put a little closer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you prepared to be accosted by small children in the street?

[Bill Simmons]

That's what I learned. Don't go in the street during water fountain or boy. Is that a special day or is.

[Mallory Rubin]

That every day New Year's? Yeah, definitely.

[Bill Simmons]

Stay away from there.

[Joanna Robinson]

My goodness. Very funny scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

Great stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

So the big things that happen. Yeah, I'll just list five, but we'll dive in the episode. But Tim Ratliff now has a gun.

[Joanna Robinson]

We have a literal Chekhov's gun in this episode of Timothy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Is that what we're calling it? Just. Sorry, that was a penis joke for Mallory. Sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

Gun and a gun. Double gun. We're on a boat with Chloe, Chelsea and Saxon and Locky and we're partying. And we've been partying for a while and we're headed toward a full moon. So that's there.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have no notes.

[Mallory Rubin]

We have Locky knows close up magic. I can't wait.

[Bill Simmons]

Gary, Greg and Belinda are now circling each other Ali Fraser style.

[Joanna Robinson]

Concerned.

[Mallory Rubin]

Multiple Googling sessions.

[Bill Simmons]

Troubled. The fancy cougars are now partying with three Russians, one of whom has a snake tattoo that goes all the way down to a very special place.

[Joanna Robinson]

These are our robbers, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

100%. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. And then gate. Gay talk. Guy talk.

[Joanna Robinson]

Guy talk.

[Bill Simmons]

Guys, we're going guy talk now.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Might be the Worst security guard of all time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Listen, he's on it.

[Bill Simmons]

He's on a really strong pace for just. This is not the guy you want. Guard to your resort.

[Mallory Rubin]

If Mook is like, come watch me dance. What are you going to do?

[Joanna Robinson]

What are you going to do?

[Bill Simmons]

Just leave. I'll just leave that gun right on the table and I'll just.

[Joanna Robinson]

We all got to see Lisa perform at the Oscars. Like, who could turn away from the dance performance now? We saw it. That guy. Talk pursuing with confidence and certainty a promotion to Bangkok bodyguard after allowing the robbers in. And then, let's just say it, not.

[Bill Simmons]

Being able to fend them off. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not fending him off to say this point, but no. He immediately left Chekhov's gone unattended on the top of the desk and then vacated the premises with his would be girlfriend.

[Mallory Rubin]

Tim has it.

[Joanna Robinson]

And now it's gone. And Tim has it. Great moment when Pam was like, I'd like that back. And he's like, what the phone.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, and one more. Rick's. Rick's in Bangkok.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So we have six storylines. We're juggling your favorite out of the six.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, well, I mean, it's still Larazepam, Tim. Like, I. I just think that Jason Isaac's on Lorazepam is a gift for all of us. So.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I am trying to remember the last time I had this much fun watching.

[Bill Simmons]

Someone on TV just completely unravel and meltdown.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm still, like, most invested in the Rick Chelsea.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Emotionally invested unit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. But when the Ratliffs in general and Tim Ratliff in particular are on the screen, I am wrapped. I mean, like, the robe is open.

[Mallory Rubin]

Him sprawling out on the bench on the boat is one thing. But then also, let's just talk about Vicky's entire experience on that boat and how upset she was. Lorazepam Free had to talk to all these people on the boat that she absolutely hated.

[Joanna Robinson]

Great moment when Piper was like, you can't get through one week at a wellness spot.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

And she's like. And later she's like, don't judge me. I'm on a boat with people I don't want to talk to.

[Joanna Robinson]

Convention for convent and cheats.

[Mallory Rubin]

Tax cheats like her husband.

[Joanna Robinson]

What about you? What's your favorite?

[Bill Simmons]

Currently, I think I liked. I like being on the boat.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. That was just.

[Bill Simmons]

I just like the whole vibe and seeing Lachie a little bit unleashed. Finally lock.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's having fun.

[Bill Simmons]

Wondering where that's going to go. And I don't know if it's going to go anywhere great. Or maybe it'll go incredible.

[Joanna Robinson]

Guess what?

[Mallory Rubin]

It's not going to go great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Piper lost him. Lost him in the tug of war, the family sibling tug of war, by saying, I'm leaving. I'm coming to live here for a year. Can you stand up for me? He was fully in the Saxon hive after that conversation with Piper.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't think that's what did it, though, because he's abandoned her, like, kind of multiple times.

[Joanna Robinson]

But he's been pulled back and forth. It was trending that way, but this, like, sealed it. Right. She's not getting him back.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know. We'll see.

[Joanna Robinson]

Locky.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, Joanna jumped ahead. That's a Joanna jumped ahead clue. She's like, I don't know. We'll see. No, I couldn't resist seeing episode five.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I just. I was watching it.

[Mallory Rubin]

No one's watching ahead. I just don't know that, like, I don't know that that was, like, what lured him. I don't think it was like, I can't be there for my sister. I think it was. I want to be on a boat with babes. Do you know?

[Bill Simmons]

So do we think Thailand? This really is Thailand with all the guys. There are just these people who either running away from something or they. They're con men or.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think it's a slice of Thailand. It's that it's all the Russian expats. There's, like, a bunch of other things going on.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. This is leaving me more fascinated with Thailand than I ever expected to be.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And, yeah, it's a TV show and it's just a small slice, but he. Mike White clearly seems intrigued by something about why somebody goes there, why they want to stay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you hiding or are you.

[Bill Simmons]

What?

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you hiding?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Hiding your seekings, like, frame it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Are you wanting to party with the Russians or hang out on the boat with the con men and the tax cheats, or what are you most wanting to do with your time here?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, what I wouldn't want to do is go down to downtown for New Year's. That sounds. That looked terrible.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I just am going to throw this out there. I thought the geriatric pool that Jacqueline was.

[Mallory Rubin]

So that was your crazy night.

[Joanna Robinson]

We have found my happy place. Drinks, old people, talking about their dead husbands and reading books. Beautiful view. I'm in. I thought that was great.

[Bill Simmons]

So you're filing that away for when Adam passes? If he passes before you, You're Right there.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's gonna die before Adam, I think, but hopefully he'll make his way to that and enjoy a nice time without me and think about how much I would have loved. That would be great. I definitely am not going to a club with the Magnar of Thin from Game of Thrones. Vlad is the Magnar fan from Game of Thrones, and I am not going to him. He is definitely the robber.

[Mallory Rubin]

Everything is on the menu.

[Bill Simmons]

That was the tall one?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Was he in Game of Thrones?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, he was a Magnar of fan.

[Bill Simmons]

Can you remind me? Because, as you know, I don't. I haven't seen the show since it ended. Which one was he?

[Joanna Robinson]

They're one of the wildling clans and spoilers for Game of Thrones. There's a very satisfying moment where Jon kills him. But they are John stuff.

[Mallory Rubin]

They eat people.

[Joanna Robinson]

They eat people. They've got the wild in the show. Like, scar tattoos on their faces.

[Mallory Rubin]

Kind of like after the turn of.

[Bill Simmons]

The century in the 1300s or.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, it's all set exactly in the period of time where you think it's set. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. So that guy. That's where they got that guy. Because that guy was a bad motherfucker. You could just tell.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So do you think they telegraphed that those are the robbers to the point that maybe they're not the robbers?

[Mallory Rubin]

I went back and rewatched the robbery.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, you did?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I was, like, trying to look for physically definitely fit. Like, it's definitely one guy. One guy driving in the passenger seat.

[Joanna Robinson]

And Alexi, presumably Alexi, he's so covered in the hoodie and mask and glasses, like, you couldn't.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's no peep of a snake. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

You can't see any of the tattoo, but it definitely seems like it's them. I mean, Valentin is so clearly holding that gate open.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Guy talk got played.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the only thing we know for sure is that episode five is off the rails, and I can't fucking. I have some. I have some tidbits from this for much later in the podcast from an experience I had this weekend, but I can't wait. A big topic was how has it not come out? What happened in episode five yet? Like, people being surprised.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is. It's like, oh, this is.

[Mallory Rubin]

They were like, how do people who have watched it had not leaked it out?

[Bill Simmons]

Just how, like, people respect the show so much that something in episode five is.

[Joanna Robinson]

That makes me nervous.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow. How has this not come out yet? I don't know what that is.

[Joanna Robinson]

I hope everyone's going to be okay. I'm very concerned now.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, but you could feel it, though, at the end of the show, going toward a full moon. It's like, all right, shit's going down. Just like last season.

[Joanna Robinson]

Does everybody turn into a werewolf and have an orgy at the club? That'd be great.

[Mallory Rubin]

So this is the midway point. Episode four to five is the midway of the season.

[Bill Simmons]

I know I did get sad the rewatch this morning.

[Mallory Rubin]

If the nuts thing happens in episode five, that means we have three episodes of Fallout. Yeah, that's how nuts it is. Exciting.

[Bill Simmons]

Then we have one more actor actress joining at some point over these next four episodes. Who? We know who it is. Like, we know it's a famous person.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

That's awesome. That's the other thing that's happening.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can't wait.

[Bill Simmons]

That's all I've been able to gleam, and I don't feel like that. I feel like that's spoiler free content right there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Someone always shows up midway through.

[Mallory Rubin]

Molly, Shannon's coming. Exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

Somebody fun is coming.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. And things are about to go off the rails. Great.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, we are going to go backwards. We'll start at the top. A fun morning that starts with Jackie trying to find her husband, Harrison.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought he was on. I didn't think he was on set. I don't know what's going on.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe. Maybe you're on the set and it's not going well.

[Joanna Robinson]

This made me kind of sad. It's tough for Jacqueline. This made me sad. It's one thing to not answer the phone call, time difference, whatever, but both in this scene and then in the subsequent conversation over the meal, it's clear he has not been responding to her text messages.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know. I kind of like this.

[Joanna Robinson]

And that is troubling.

[Mallory Rubin]

I kind of like this for Kate and Laurie because earlier Jacqueline was like, we're obsessed with each other. And Lori's like, okay, but you just got married, so you don't really know what's going on. And Kate and Laurie have been married for a long time to their respective divorce.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we red flagged it, though. Nobody's gushing about their own relationship with them.

[Joanna Robinson]

This makes me think that Jacqueline is now. And we see obviously a lot of this in season side of this episode in many respects, the lack of communication from Harrison, the just genuine ego blow of Valentin sending them to the old person's pool.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

She is this tightly wound coil right now, and she is ready to spring. And then Spiral. I think anticipating that she has been betrayed, she will do some betraying. Right. I will fuck someone else before you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Call this from the start.

[Bill Simmons]

Whatever happens in Thailand stays in Thailand. She says that in this episode.

[Mallory Rubin]

I feel like Bill said that she was going to push Valentin on Laurie and then take Valentine for herself. I feel like that was like a little.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, a little.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So power struggle. How much of a Mike White file are you?

[Mallory Rubin]

Fairly.

[Bill Simmons]

Is there? I'm wondering, like with this character and the younger husband on set. Oh, if that's a real, like, could that be the Lord? Did Laura Dern date anybody who is younger than her? I wonder, like, if there's something going on there.

[Mallory Rubin]

If he's calling out someone.

[Bill Simmons]

Didn't she date Ben Harper at that point? At one point.

[Mallory Rubin]

How much younger was Ben Harper, though? Not that much.

[Bill Simmons]

Was he younger in fact? But it feels like this is a real life thing, the actress dating somebody who's younger and they're each other, but.

[Mallory Rubin]

Not really nail it down to one person. This is Taylor's oldest time, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. I don't know. It just, it just struck me because I do think he puts real life stuff and. Yeah, so it's. Or maybe he heard the story of this, but yeah, seems like something. Then I was trying to think, who. What type of actor is the guy? Oh, like who's our parallel to this now?

[Mallory Rubin]

Who is Harrison?

[Bill Simmons]

This is like Gwyneth Paltrow dating blank.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, someone emailed us asking us if. Because Megan Fahey and Leo Woodall who were on season two are dating and there's like a six year age gap between them, which is not, I don't think, tremendous or something like that.

[Bill Simmons]

But this is 10, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

This is 10. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

We think she's like 48, 49. Do we? I think late 40s.

[Mallory Rubin]

Michelle Monahan's age.

[Bill Simmons]

Mid. Late 40s. So this guy's like 35.

[Joanna Robinson]

A famous actor in his 30s.

[Bill Simmons]

But again, maybe a little Demi Moore, Ashton Kutcher, maybe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure, yeah. Oh, sure, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. I just feel like he's dipping into some stuff. I don't know what the answer is to it, but anyway, she can't find him and it's not good.

[Mallory Rubin]

I have a hard time being sympathetic to Jacqueline. I'm sorry. When she is like so repulsed by this, like, extremely ordinary bull that she's been sent to.

[Joanna Robinson]

So funny.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, but I mean, I mean, not to skip ahead, but I mean, isn't part of that, like, that's her audience for whatever show she's on.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, it's not. Not her audience.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, she's probably on like a CBS 10 o'clock show. She's probably in like a Blue Bloods type of show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, we heard her say earlier in the season, right, that like, you know, she can never turn it off. She always has to be her best self. So that's, that's in the mix here. Like, she sits down, she's finally ready to just have fun, relax. And immediately it's like, are you on tv? She turn off that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Shine said the same thing when she sat down at the White Lotus pool.

[Joanna Robinson]

And she was quite rude to him too.

[Mallory Rubin]

Less rude than she was to this movie, maybe.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the fact that like Valentine thinks that this is their brand, right. She's like, we want. She's offended by we want the energy.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you used the right word. Ego blow.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, it's an ego blow. But like, it. There's the. There are a couple things to consider here. One that he actually thinks that, like they would. But I think what felt clearer across the episode, he sends them there, then he abandons them in the street around the children. He's like, don't worry, it'll be fine. I'll meet you in an hour. Go shopping without question, knowing that they are gonna have no idea how to navigate that circumstance. And then he brings his two friends to the club. And I was really struck by the just specific. Maybe it's just, you know, language barrier thing, but we know how to make fun, not have fun. Like he's. If we think they're the robbers, then we have to ask if he's actually setting them up. Setting them up for some sort of crime here. But also just that he is indulging in mocking them.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a three season theme, though, is the staff having real contempt for the people who stay at the hotel.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, she called him Valent Valentin for some reason.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You're a butler, you're leaving.

[Mallory Rubin]

She called him Valentin, which is not as bad as Saxon saying swastika.

[Joanna Robinson]

That was unbelievable.

[Mallory Rubin]

Instead of the greeting.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Wild stuff from Saxon.

[Bill Simmons]

So that was how our morning started, along with Belinda talking to her son. She's still hearing noises. I don't know what's going on there.

[Mallory Rubin]

What is happening in the villa?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I just like.

[Mallory Rubin]

Is it haunted?

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like it's an animal.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And we're just like these unsettled Westerners who have come on this either exchange program or vacation who are freaked out and in an unfamiliar circumstance and poised to respond in a reckless, outsized fashion to something that destabilizes toilet Snake.

[Mallory Rubin]

Mallory.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, we know for a fact from the snake show that a lot of those cobras come from the toilet. It could definitely be a toilet.

[Bill Simmons]

How much would that be in your head Every time you went to the.

[Joanna Robinson]

Bathroom in Thailand, I. I would look down before sitting. I would look repeatedly while sitting.

[Mallory Rubin]

You would not sit. You would hover only.

[Bill Simmons]

But it's a flush first. Before you do anything, I think ask questions.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can a flush keep a cobra at bay? I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Is this why Tim Ratless keeps showering outside?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, man, that looks great. I know he's really going through it, but that looks great. That shower set. My God.

[Bill Simmons]

Stinks in the toilet. Yet another reason I'm probably not going to Thailand just when we had you. I'm out again.

[Mallory Rubin]

You're out again.

[Bill Simmons]

Then we have Ratliff stealing pills from his wife. Officially. Okay, this is like a 9020 plot thing where somebody tries cocaine. And then the next episode, they're like, where do I get a bump?

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm dying. Two in the morning. He took another one on the bar.

[Bill Simmons]

He's now a drug addict.

[Mallory Rubin]

Lorazepam is highly addictive.

[Bill Simmons]

First of all, it's addictive in one day.

[Mallory Rubin]

And secondly, shouldn't be mixing it with.

[Joanna Robinson]

This much booze, should you?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think when you're going through it and you don't want to feel a single thing, perhaps it is. Secondly, Rob and I were talking about this. How much does it creep you out that he takes those pills dry? It creeps.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. This is a thing that people do on TV all the time. I never understand it.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, I can't say I'm a dry pill.

[Joanna Robinson]

Take your dry pill taker.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, my wife and my wife thinks it's awesome.

[Joanna Robinson]

First of all, doesn't it hurt? But more importantly, it leaves a taste.

[Bill Simmons]

In your mouth that some people are tougher than others.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do we need to be tough about taking our medication? I don't think so.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm happy to just swallow a pill and be. And I'm fine.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you do this with every pill or only gel caps?

[Bill Simmons]

No, I'll just. I'll just whip them down.

[Mallory Rubin]

I can't. I can't do it. I respect it.

[Bill Simmons]

I know a lot of people can't do it. It's a special club to tell you.

[Mallory Rubin]

All of us.

[Bill Simmons]

So at the beginning, we also have guy talk, wants to have a date with Mook and finds out he Needs to go to the gun range and learn how to shoot a gun. Because we're going to keep a gun on the premises now. Poor guy Talk.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, when we get to the shoot at the end that we've already heard.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's no way that's just gun range noise, is it? No, because people are, like, screaming and running.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. People are too scared.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm excited to talk about what might happen now that Tim has the gun. Lots of different. I mean, not excited, filled with dread and trepidation, but a lot of different theories. In this opening Guy Talk scene, though, quickly, like, we didn't just get Chekhov's gun, we got Chekhov's security camera. We linger on the security camera. We linger on the monitor.

[Mallory Rubin]

So now we know right after Tim takes the Larazepam.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes, exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

So we know they. They're gon. Ratliff took the.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think Guy Talk is gonna immediately look and in the next episode and say, who did this? And then go.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, like, find him.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't think he even has. I mean, maybe he looks. I don't even have to. But, like, he passes him on and has heard this guy, like, say the wildest on the phone call. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, but can we just talk about Mook? Inviting him to watch her dance and stuff like that? Like, she's definitely interested, right? Oh, yeah, She's. This is not like a creepy guy stalking a lady that he works with. No, she's interested.

[Bill Simmons]

Not at all. I feel like she's even more of the pursuer a little bit. It's probably like 55, 45. Mook.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's. She's into the date. The next night she asked him to come watch her dance later to make sure he sees her in her outfit. I still ship it.

[Bill Simmons]

Even though I'm a great guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Terrified.

[Bill Simmons]

I fully support it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm for it.

[Bill Simmons]

Too bad he's gonna be shot to death.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I hope he enjoys his next three days of life.

[Mallory Rubin]

Ship her. Her with his corpse.

[Bill Simmons]

We also get in the morning, Saxon's loud blender. Drink it, Locky.

[Joanna Robinson]

This was just an unbelievable piece of television.

[Mallory Rubin]

We do it.

[Joanna Robinson]

We don't do it for the dates.

[Mallory Rubin]

We do it for the hot tea.

[Bill Simmons]

Girls aren't into Super Jack. Guys. Sacks. Piper says, oh, my God, what are they into? Gender goblins who tuck their dicks between their legs. And then he imitates it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, you're gonna get up and you're gonna get up.

[Bill Simmons]

They do figure out two Times an episode just to make him. Oh, my God, worse. But I still enjoy the hell out of it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Grabbing the book, Joe and Rob talked on on their deep dive in Theory breakdown about the fact that that book that Piper has been listening to and reading.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

About identity. And that line about identity is a prison. The symbolism of Saxon taking this book about identity and identity being a prison and booping her on the head as he dances around like a bigoted dipshit. Very rich text.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, yeah. So he's, what are you doing? Reading. Oh, no. She's, what are you doing? She says, reading. And he goes, why?

[Joanna Robinson]

That was lockey. Yeah. What are you doing? Reading. Why?

[Bill Simmons]

He's tremendous. Mom's pills are missing. And then. And we have the dad just sitting there at the bathrobe, and we're like, oh, no.

[Joanna Robinson]

So did you know immediately it felt.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. No.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I was on my radar.

[Joanna Robinson]

We were seeing so much inner thigh.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it was on my radar because it reminded me of the Duchovny Larry Sanders. Same kind of, like, posture, and it was like, oh, man.

[Mallory Rubin]

A lot of inner thigh. But, like, you were primed for this because Bill texted you to be like, there's something for you.

[Joanna Robinson]

True, true, true.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I shouldn't have texted you true.

[Joanna Robinson]

But I think I would have been excited to. To see what happened with the robe, no matter what.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because if you're wearing a bathrobe and it's loosely fastened and you sit at an elevated position on a bar stool, and then you do this and this, only one thing is going to happen, and it's going to be that your dick is hanging out with the tip gently rubbing against the fabric of the bar stool.

[Bill Simmons]

So I have some thoughts.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's hear them. Go ahead. The floor is yours.

[Bill Simmons]

The bathrobe with no underwear is. Is aggressive.

[Joanna Robinson]

With the family just gotten out of.

[Bill Simmons]

The shower, it's aggressive.

[Joanna Robinson]

Dr.

[Bill Simmons]

But you have your family. It's aggressive. Those bath, those hotel bathrooms, it was like a short.

[Mallory Rubin]

It was like a shorty robe.

[Bill Simmons]

Those are, like, not fire retardant suits. Like, a lot of things can go wrong. The road can, like, just. I'm having underwear on if my kids are there. Okay. And then the way he sits. I think what they're trying to say is his mind is racing with so many different things. He has no idea. Like, he's about to do drugs. But the reactions of the kids, I thought was one of those. The daughter was just slumped on the couch like, it's never gonna be the same.

[Joanna Robinson]

No one wants to see their dad, nobody.

[Bill Simmons]

That that would exactly be what happened with my kids.

[Mallory Rubin]

They would just sense. I also felt like the reactions could have been bigger. I feel like we could all stand to be a little bit more concerned about Tim than we are as a family.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, this is one of the flaws of the episode. As drugged out as Parker Posey is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

At some point you have to be like, man, this guy's like when he.

[Mallory Rubin]

Starts happen to him feeling Piper's face on the boat breaking.

[Joanna Robinson]

But yeah, you. You find this last episode that the family wasn't pushing enough and like, what is going on with you?

[Bill Simmons]

This episode's even more.

[Joanna Robinson]

This episode glaring, I think, because he is, you know, he's Mr. I don't do drugs, I don't take drugs. So he's walking around clearly in like a drug haze the entire episode. And even if they didn't clock the drug thing and Vicki's like, wait, who took my lorazepam? Could it possibly be Tim who is obviously on drugs at this very moment? He is slamming whiskeys on that boat. Slamming them. And someone should be a little bit more concerned than they are, obviously. Piper and Locky are horrified to see their dad's dangling dick. Saxon.

[Bill Simmons]

It wasn't dangling. It was more like. Yeah, it was. It seemed more like really at rest.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is a video podcast, so if you are only listening, you can watch Mallory do dictionaries.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. What do you think? Prosthetic in the proud tradition of White Lotus. Theo James, who had previously shown his dick on other properties, used a prosthetic in season two.

[Mallory Rubin]

Malarb and digologist. Thank you so much. I think this is.

[Joanna Robinson]

What do you think?

[Mallory Rubin]

The real Isaacs.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think so too.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

What do you think?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna give you my answer right after this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wow. That's how you keep them from factor. Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by Emirates. We all love the thought of a vacation in Europe, but have you ever thought about looking a little further? Like Dubai, a city everyone talks about, has absolutely everything you could want from a vacation destination. From world class hotels, record breaking skyscrapers and epic desert adventures, to museums that showcase the future, not just the past. Choose from 96 flights per week between the United States and Dubai. Book your flights on emirates.com today.

[Mallory Rubin]

This episode is brought to you by Coffee Mate. I love a good crossover, especially when it's with a show you love. This time the crossover isn't with another character, but with Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has collaborated with HBO's the White Lotus to bring us two tropically inspired, limited time only flavors. Pina colada and Thai iced coffee flavored creamers. And as a coffee fanatic, I can't wait to try them. All right. Thai iced coffee in my coffee. Pina colada in coffee. I am adventurous when it comes to new flavors, but this sounds truly different. I'm picturing something tropical and refreshing, like a beachside cocktail, but with a coffee twist. Definitely curious to see how it all comes together. Let's try it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mmm.

[Mallory Rubin]

The Thai iced coffee is amazing. It tastes like. Like an authentic Thai iced coffee with that, you know, the. The condensed milk sweetness to it. I was very skeptical about the pina colada, but it's surprisingly delicious. The coconut and pineapple notes make it feel like a vacation in a cup. Perfect for sipping while watching the latest episode of HBO's original series, the White Lotus. This coffee mates. The White Lotus flavors are only available for a limited time, so try them now and stream HBO's original series on Max.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, we're gonna play real dick or stunt dick? Presented by UberEats. I'm going fake.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, tell us, why do you need, like, a. Like a laser pointer for?

[Bill Simmons]

As you know, I was. I was hard in the camp of that Theo James stunt dick last episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think in general, they go stunt dick every time because the guy has the. You're on the set for hours. I just think they put, like, they do what they did in Boogie Nights, they just put the sleeve. The fake dick sleeve over the dick, and then they don't have to worry about it. The actor's not thinking about, oh, my God, I gotta make sure I got enough blood down there. And I just feel like.

[Mallory Rubin]

But he's not. He's like, yeah, it's flaccid.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Still impressive, but flaccid.

[Bill Simmons]

There were no balls to be. If you really want to go, that. My wife and I, when we. We paused it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, no balls whatsoever. He's an older guy, but I'm gonna say balls are gonna be around.

[Joanna Robinson]

Lots of pubic hair.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, you think he should have had a. A saggier ball?

[Bill Simmons]

I just think. I think whatever prosthetic thing they used kind of overpowered the rest of the area, and it just. It didn't sit right with me.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm gonna say prosthetic.

[Mallory Rubin]

I say this is au natural.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I could try to find out for next episode if you guys. If we really are.

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe we don't want to. There will be interviews, no question.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'M confident that people will have asked Jason Isaacs. This. This will come up.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, for sure. The thing is, once you've committed to.

[Bill Simmons]

That accent, what country is he from?

[Joanna Robinson]

Why not show your dick?

[Mallory Rubin]

England.

[Joanna Robinson]

England. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, as you know, I thought. What was that movie with the. With the crazy guy in the English castle? Saltburn.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I thought we talked about this a lot. I thought there was some fluffing for that. I thought there was.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's definitely his penis.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, definitely is, but I think the grave with it. Yeah. Are you. Are you gonna be there for Saltburn rewatchables?

[Mallory Rubin]

If I'm enjoying my time in la. How could you not be?

[Joanna Robinson]

My God, Jason Isaacs.

[Bill Simmons]

We'll figure out the answer at some point.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Anyway, you know, it's like from the basilisk in the Chamber Secrets to this basilisk.

[Mallory Rubin]

Don't do it. Don't do it. A true patriot, if you know what I mean. Did you. Did you see the interview that Scott Galloway, who was. Who was the voice of the lawyer in. In episode three?

[Bill Simmons]

Is that true?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. That he. That Jason Isaac came to his house to give him acting lessons. And I feel like if you're. If you're that committed, you're just putting. You're showing your dick, your actual dick on screen.

[Bill Simmons]

English. I'm trying to think of different countries, if that. You can profile people that way, but I would say the English probably.

[Mallory Rubin]

James is British and he chickened out, so who's to say? Just kidding. If you don't want to show your dick on television, that's not chickening out. You're allowed to do that.

[Bill Simmons]

Wasn't the point. They. They needed to make it like a monster one to get Aubrey Plaza intrigued.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, they didn't need to use a prosthetic for that.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. Yeah. Mal's seen some of his previous work on Mr. Skin.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think that was more about the specific angle for that scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

You know that is true.

[Mallory Rubin]

All right, remember, hide or seek.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you hiding or you seeking?

[Bill Simmons]

We're moving to Chelsea. Who starts breakfast by saying how things happen in three. And she's in Final Destination. Very concerning.

[Joanna Robinson]

Death is coming for me.

[Bill Simmons]

Really, really, really Playing up the death theme with them. And then guilts Rick to go on the boat.

[Mallory Rubin]

Cute, adorable pout. I also couldn't not say no, say nothing.

[Bill Simmons]

It worked on me. I wanted to go on the boat.

[Mallory Rubin]

By the time she was done.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yay. Was very great. We have talked a lot about the entire cast. We've talked a lot About Jason Isaacs, a lot about Goggins. This is, like a sensational performance.

[Mallory Rubin]

Amy Lou.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, she is. Amy is killing it. This is just unbelievable.

[Mallory Rubin]

What did everyone call her in the Texi scent? Hot Tooth Lady.

[Bill Simmons]

Hot Tooth Lady. Fit New White Lotus Fan Band lafin.

[Mallory Rubin]

Hot Tooth Lady.

[Bill Simmons]

Hot Tooth Lady.

[Joanna Robinson]

Two seasons in two days. Unbelievable.

[Mallory Rubin]

Crushing it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah, this was really good.

[Bill Simmons]

They decided to go on the boat, but then Rick runs into his therapist, who has, like, kind of a nice moment with Rick.

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought this was beautiful.

[Bill Simmons]

You've touched my heart.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Let go of your story. I have high hopes for you. If somebody came to you and said, you have touched my heart, would you just immediately start crying? Mel?

[Joanna Robinson]

Probably, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I've seen her do it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Probably find peace in life. I would love to find peace in life. I mean, we heard him say in episode three, like, I can't get my life back. And we talked about exactly this. Like, how much of that is real? How much of that is the. This, this prison that he feels he's in. And this was just like, the look on his face. The way that he has actually opened up in those sessions with Amrita so far. And this resistance he has to, like, allowing himself to be free while obviously also carrying a genuine and intense amount of. Of emotional turmoil is very compelling to watch. And he's been sensational. I hope that these words from her are in his ears and in his mind and in his heart when he stares down Jim Hollinger. That is what I hope and pull him back.

[Mallory Rubin]

Anything that Chelsea said, because we get. Well, I have some thoughts and theories about what he says to Chelsea inside of this episode.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Yeah, we're getting to that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, one other thing on this. The therapist says, I have. I have hopes for you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you feel like that was genuine?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So she's in on Rick, but Rick's basically Affleck and Manchester by the Sea. Like, he's just, just. He can't beat it. The scene on the cheerful film.

[Mallory Rubin]

Cheerful film.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The scene on the hill where he's like, I, I, I just can't. I can't. Or when he said not to the. On the hill. It's to the, to the kid.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

When he's explaining why they have to break up. I just can't beat it. That's kind of Rick's M.O. in this episode. It's like, I just.

[Mallory Rubin]

Something's been interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

My life. I gotta get. I gotta do it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Something that's been interesting about the interviews that Walton Goggins and Amy Luo Wood have been giving about Rick and Chelsea is. They've said, like, basically they've been together for several years, like, three years, that he's not been like this. That this is, like, a new midlife crisis moment for him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. Because she keeps referencing, like, why don't we have fun anymore?

[Mallory Rubin]

Right. So it's not that, like, Chelsea's been trying to, like, draw this out of him the whole time. It's like he's been a better version of himself, and right now he's just stuck in this one in a rut. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I thought it was sad when she invoked this idea of, like, the cloud and the things that she's saying on some. On some level, like, are fair and makes sense. If you're in a relationship with somebody, especially for that long, and they won't tell you what's going on in their life, of course it would make you feel, like, distant from them. But also, he is so clearly going through something genuine and painful that it, like, has to feel pretty bad to hear that. I think their. Their dynamic feels, like, very. Even though it is completely, like, heightened and bizarre in that respect. Very true. Like, what people are willing to share and when. And what they withhold and when I think, like, you were. You were, you know, mentioning last week, tracking from prior seasons because they're different characters broadly. So what can we bring season to season in this question of, like, who is actually on an arc of some sort of level of emotional enlightenment? It feels like halfway Rick is less. I think, on The Quinn Season 1, I am actually experiencing a revelation, and I want to live my life a different way and a little bit more in the, like, Valentina or even Harper Ethan season two spot of just, like, like, some level of self acceptance and self awareness gained over the course of the season. That feels like a little bit more of the comp for him, based on what we've seen so far.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. It feels like he has a choice to make.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's already made the choice to go to Bangkok, which I think is the wrong choice. Stay on the boat with Chelsea.

[Joanna Robinson]

Quite rude to that guy who hit him in the head with a backpack.

[Bill Simmons]

Stand the boat, Stay in the boat with all those fun people, all those fun males you can talk to. Got some great winners there.

[Mallory Rubin]

Chelsea would have gotten off the boat if Rick said, I'll stay with you if you get off the boat.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Let's go back to the hotel pool. We get the. The fancies at breakfast.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

And Jackie's now spinning out. And I'm just throwing this out here as a theory.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Still has a chance to be the worst character of this season. Not worst character. She might. She might be the worst person on the show.

[Mallory Rubin]

On. On. On what? By what metric?

[Joanna Robinson]

Caring the least about the emotional damage she does to the people. She is is in theory close to all.

[Bill Simmons]

She. She's like, my feelings are hurt because my 10 years younger husband hasn't called me back yet. And now I'm just gonna. Let's get fun. I'm ready to up some lives. I'm gonna order my butler.

[Mallory Rubin]

Rooting for Jacqueline by any stretch of the imagination. I just think that Tim has the.

[Joanna Robinson]

Possibility to destroy many lives.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I think it's already happened.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Destroying many lives. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

On what level?

[Bill Simmons]

His assets and his prosthetic penis are frozen.

[Joanna Robinson]

My God.

[Mallory Rubin]

Everyone at the club is gonna know.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Thank God my parents are dead.

[Joanna Robinson]

That was tough. Very sad.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. So we go on the boat.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Greg Gary. We find out he's retired. Well government work. A little investing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. A little investing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That's totally how you got 150 foot.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yacht investing woman who I got killed.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Parker Posey holding an umbrella, which I appreciated.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wonderful.

[Mallory Rubin]

Did you like their sort of reservoir dog slow mo walk?

[Bill Simmons]

I did the camera. I did.

[Mallory Rubin]

Me too.

[Bill Simmons]

Rat lives a zombie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Kind of thing to drink.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just.

[Bill Simmons]

He's out of it. He's bummed out that Rick's there. He's just having the worst time.

[Mallory Rubin]

I wanted more from that and it was very brief.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I wanted them to boo up each other.

[Bill Simmons]

It makes me think they're going to have a big scene.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think so too. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

They're circling each other a little bit.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think so too.

[Bill Simmons]

He raids the pills, becomes a pills addict in 24 hours. And then we find out that Piper tells Lockyer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm moving here.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This is not. I wasn't here to interview a monk.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, no. She lied to her family.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a family of liars.

[Mallory Rubin]

Brought them across the globe under false pretenses.

[Bill Simmons]

Like 30 hour trip over long it takes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yep. Three layovers.

[Mallory Rubin]

And apparently those villas are $10,000 a night at that location.

[Joanna Robinson]

Jesus. And you still have poisoned fruit on your deck.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

There's a report.

[Bill Simmons]

Security.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's a Four Seasons. Right. So there's been a report that they've had checking in and upgrading to the White Lotus Villas like in the last couple weeks. And they're $10,000 a night.

[Joanna Robinson]

What did you guys make by the way, we'll get. I don't want to leave Tim on the boat yet. But what did you make of the fact that the old people at the pool said they couldn't get into the White Lotus because you can only go if you're a guest. But Gary and Chloe are routinely there.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's a total super rich person thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

They have just special.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think there's probably like special properties that are attached to the hotel. You want people like them to come down, eat dinner and drink it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I heard from someone in hospitality and they were like, that happens all the time. If you're like super rich and you're nearby your grandfather. Yeah, you can have dinner.

[Bill Simmons]

So, yeah. Piper's going to live in Thailand.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. I don't love the match of Piper, who's about as fun as a stick. And Thailand. I don't know. I have some concerns initially.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, the question is, you know, spirituality. Is she going to stay? Because her. Rob and I were talking about this. Her drop in at the monastery was very superficial. Like, I know she's got an appointment for later, but she just kind of looks like, how much does she know about the reality of what it is to live at a monastery in Thailand for a year? And it seems very much in keeping with White Lotus that a character like Piper who feels that she's better than her family, above her family, is going to commit to this sort of thing is just going to. Not Is going to relapse into like pampered privilege by the end of the season.

[Bill Simmons]

But this is another Mike Waite theme because this was basically season one too.

[Joanna Robinson]

Olivia.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, kids who are part of this family that from the outside seems great and they have enough money to do whatever they want, but the kids aren't happy. They don't like her face. When Lockheed and Saxon are like, we're gonna stay in the boat. And she. She just looked like, I have to eat dinner with these two lunatics tonight.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, she was gonna ask Lachlan to be there for her.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

To tell the news.

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought. I was really struck by when she kind of was priming Locky for hey, will you be in my Survivor alliance? Obviously, I'm like, white Passion point. She was like, yeah, no, yeah, I went and I looked yesterday and I'm sure I walked around for 30 seconds and I'm sure. And I. This. I think that Piper is. To me, mileage may vary way more likable than the Sydney Sweeney Olivia character from season one who I thought Was, like, despicable. Deeply and very unlikable.

[Mallory Rubin]

I like Piper.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I like Piper way more, but.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's fair. The Sydney Sweeney character was awful.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah. I think you're right to identify that there's a parallel there that Mike White is interested in interrogating. And it's active text in this episode. Like, Piper is a better person than Saxon, objectively. Piper has, like, morals and outlooks that are more in line, probably with many of the people watching. But when. When her mom says, you're, like, the most judgmental one here, it's kind of hard to dispute that point.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, and that puts her more in the Harper camp. And would we not say that Harper had sort of like a I'm better than you? Oh, wait, I'm exactly like judgment.

[Bill Simmons]

No question.

[Mallory Rubin]

In season two.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So I think Piper's I'm better than you is gonna bite her in the ass. That's Mike White's.

[Joanna Robinson]

As you know, I loved Harper and Ethan.

[Bill Simmons]

When you say they're judgment when that she's judgmental, is it worse than Saxon calling her a sourpass or sourpuss sad sack shithead? All right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Made me laugh.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's not great. It's not great. Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Right before he. He wanted to get to go talk to the three girls and said, these girls are looking for some young. Young come.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, they want some young come.

[Mallory Rubin]

And, like, okay, is that the Young Gun sequel you've been waiting for?

[Joanna Robinson]

Young come. You know, these girls are thirsty for some young cum. That was great. Locky's reaction. That was priceless.

[Bill Simmons]

We need. We needed him to get. Get Locky going. And Locky has now been activated and.

[Joanna Robinson]

We'Re in store for a major Locky episode.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he has moved up in the death odds.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, man.

[Bill Simmons]

They've telegraphed too much Chelsea Final Destination stuff. I think she dropped on fanduel.

[Mallory Rubin]

Is it because you hate magicians generally that you're putting Lachlan on the.

[Bill Simmons]

I gotta say, I was impressed by the magic stuff.

[Mallory Rubin]

Magic was great.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was impressed, too. Chelsea was impressed, and I was impressed you. You had mentioned the opening credits with. With Lachlan last time, which was alarming. I can't shake in the opening credits. I. I think we're all aligned that the Chelsea stu. Voluminous. It does feel like it's meant to mislead us at this point. But the zoom into the mangled animal corpse over her name on the credits, the camera moves into the death in a way that has me just very on edge. Still very on edge. I'm worried.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I do a quick tangent here for one of my true passions, which.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is when show about prosthetic penises.

[Bill Simmons]

We're moving on when shows crossover for no reason with another show. Because I was thinking how great it would have been if there was just one scene where Connor Roy was there with his. With his wife. And it's like they're there, they're on the boat and they.

[Mallory Rubin]

What about one of the billions criminals on the island?

[Bill Simmons]

Just somebody from that universe just talking. Just. They're on the boat for just a minute. And it's never really acknowledged. And we don't even know if it's the same people.

[Joanna Robinson]

It would have been. I think the. The move would have been Cousin Greg, because he is, like, firmly etched in our minds with Yacht Cannon because of the toenail fungus, obviously. This is like one of the most memorable things that's happened in the last decade of television. And it was on my mind here because they all fucking wear shoes on. And I'm like, is this not teak? What Succession teaches nothing. And only Saxon, model citizen that he is, had the decency to wear boat shoes. The hell was everyone else got to.

[Bill Simmons]

Wear the boat shoes? You don't have the foot fungus. Congo.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's appalled that we find Saxon so compelling. It is just that he is entertaining.

[Mallory Rubin]

He is entertaining. He's deeply entertaining.

[Joanna Robinson]

Very much so.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's just like one of the worst.

[Joanna Robinson]

Humans I've ever seen. He's a bad person.

[Bill Simmons]

We're falling down to that. Gosh, listen, there's two kinds of people. One is the type who, if there's an Instagram video of a dog humping somebody's leg, they laugh. And the other side is. They're like, oh, no, that's terrible. Mal and I would laugh.

[Joanna Robinson]

We know how Saxon would laugh.

[Mallory Rubin]

She's just.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's like, how have I chosen to spend this much of my time and career with these two idiots?

[Bill Simmons]

Stop being a sour, sad saxophone piper.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, can we talk about Tim and. And Gary?

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't want to cut you off, but if I ever need help hiding my money from the government.

[Joanna Robinson]

That was great.

[Mallory Rubin]

Or one of my ex wives. I'll call you. Yeah, Swati.

[Joanna Robinson]

Never Rick. Mocking the very thing that the Tim needs, which is somebody to help him hide his money from. From the government. What do you make of this, Bill?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, so we learned. My father was a very successful businessman.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, man.

[Bill Simmons]

My grandfather was the governor of North Carolina.

[Mallory Rubin]

Governor of North Carolina.

[Joanna Robinson]

We are going to officially need North Carolina corner with Tate Frazier before the end of the season.

[Mallory Rubin]

The way he said North Carolina. Really felt like it hit that accent perfectly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Then he said, with the dad, very, very successful businessman. Thank God he's dead. He just kind of says that under his. Under his breath because he knows.

[Mallory Rubin]

But Razapam. Tim is so out of control that one of the creeps on the boat is like, I'll meet you at the bar, right?

[Joanna Robinson]

Even they can't be around Tim Ratliff in this state. This is very sad to watch. I am worried about whether he's going to be with us for more than one episode. Episode. Honestly, at this point, what did we think?

[Mallory Rubin]

Is he just gonna stay in Thailand and, like, hide from the.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is the thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, he just goes. He goes, like, in hiding.

[Joanna Robinson]

Simply doing an interview with Gary for like, a can you help me hide my money Campaign. Like, he's sniffing the fact that they end up. And obviously this is the conversation later with Vicki and Piper and Tim. Like, you have no idea how lucky you are that your dad is a boy scout and Tim is like, oh, my God, everybody. The people at the club, the ghosts of my dead parents, my beautiful family, My legacy and identity have been shattered, and everyone will know I am a fraud. How deeply painful to have to confron front. We hear him say on the phone call, which we'll obviously talk about, like, I would rather be fucking dead than go to prison. And then he goes and takes a gun. And when Pam asks for his phone, he's like, yeah, I'm not gonna need it. Again, worrying. But in this conversation with Gary, so what about you? Are you hiding or seeking? I'm just on vacation with my family, but you never know. So which way is this gonna go? Is Tim gonna say, hey, yeah, you know what? Vicki's right. I was on a yacht full of con men and cheats. Maybe I can get some advice from one of them. Or. Or is Greg Gary going to sense how desperate Tim is seeking to evade detection and. And try to capitalize on that in some way?

[Bill Simmons]

If you kill Belinda, I'll do this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Since this and this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

The thing I love about Greg Gary, it's really sticking this performance.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a good dog name.

[Mallory Rubin]

I can't tell what he's thinking at any time. Like when Chloe later asked for the yacht.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, and he's clearly, like, pissed about it, but, like, how pissed is he?

[Bill Simmons]

It's a very good restrained performance, and I think it's hard to pull off.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. He does a nice job of. I never know what he's thinking.

[Joanna Robinson]

The only time he really, like, tells on himself is when he's watching Saxon and Chloe. That's kind of it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Or also the side eye that he gave Belinda when she was walking through the lobby.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, that was just like.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Again, very, very worrying.

[Mallory Rubin]

Very worrying.

[Joanna Robinson]

His house looked really nice.

[Bill Simmons]

What did you think of the old Hawaiian shirt guy with the Dr. Pepper hair and the young trophy Thai girlfriend wife.

[Mallory Rubin]

Which one?

[Bill Simmons]

When Parker Posey's like, you should put a ring on that. I love that guy. Those guys exist. They're usually minority owners of NBA teams.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. There was like 10 of them on the boat.

[Bill Simmons]

They can't quite get on the trophy celebration, but they're over there with like the badge on.

[Joanna Robinson]

Incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

But I really enjoyed that casting. I thought that was good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Really good.

[Bill Simmons]

We also had Lockadoo magic tricks, which we mentioned loved. We have dad fondling Piper's face and having a nervous breakdown. I promise you, if I did that to Zoe, she would immediately call my something wife would be like, dad's having a mental breakdown.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Here's Larazepam, Tim's lowest moment. And it's not stealing a gun. I think it's gaslighting Vicky when he steals her drugs. And he's like, you're always losing things. You don't know where anything is. I'm just like, you motherfucker.

[Joanna Robinson]

And like, the saddest thing about that is she kept offering them. Right, Right. He's withholding and lying here for no reason. Like he's worried about this great deception being revealed, but he's compounding it by hiding all of these other things. It's just. Honestly, White Lotus is a very funny, darkly comic show, but this is like deep tragedy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Here's my question about Vicki. Like, if we're talking about, like, what could push someone over the edge? Like, if Vicki finds out the truth about what's happening with Tim, like, what is that going. Going.

[Bill Simmons]

She just shoots sober.

[Mallory Rubin]

Vicky sober, doesn't have her pills. Vicky.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right, right.

[Mallory Rubin]

What is that going to do to her?

[Bill Simmons]

I wrote down in my.

[Joanna Robinson]

Nothing good.

[Bill Simmons]

I wrote down in my notes, this family's just a whiff. Incesty.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, yeah, just a whiffling was really strange that that was more platonic sweetness and devastation. No, no, no. It lingered too long.

[Mallory Rubin]

Too long.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's still lower in the power ranking after Lockheed watching his brother walk naked to jerk off in.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that was weird.

[Joanna Robinson]

The lock also behind brother's ass. Morning below the.

[Bill Simmons]

This Family is pretty a mess.

[Mallory Rubin]

And below Sax's Vicki's anecdote about Uncle Babe.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Troll. You're right.

[Mallory Rubin]

This family's off. Yeah, it's off.

[Bill Simmons]

Who is the succession character? The guy who worked in the company who was. It turned out he was like Uncle Mo.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Call him Uncle Mo after Molester. God damn, I missed that show.

[Joanna Robinson]

What a show.

[Bill Simmons]

Parker Posy gets mad at Piper. But then one other big thing happens here. Chelsea confronts Rick. They have their moment on the. On the deck.

[Mallory Rubin]

Here's my thoughts and theories.

[Bill Simmons]

Really great.

[Joanna Robinson]

So good.

[Bill Simmons]

Joe, you have the floor.

[Mallory Rubin]

So he says the dude who murdered his father, Scott Glenn. Jim Holling owns this hotel. He's in Bangkok. Bangkok. So I'm going to Bangkok. He says, I never knew my father. I told you that he was a do gooder. He came to Thailand to help people. He's trying to help these locals keep a shady American from stealing their land. I don't really know the details. One day he disappeared and they never found him. Yeah, I don't believe any of that is true. I believe that that is what his mother told him on her deathbed. He thinks it's true, but I don't. I think he's gonna find out one of two things. Either that just Jim Hollinger straight up. His dad.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Who. Who absconded.

[Bill Simmons]

That's been the leader in the clubhouse.

[Mallory Rubin]

Or Jim Hollinger is like, you think your dad was a good dude? He absolutely was not. And this is what he's built his. Rick has built part of his identity on this. On this. On this fairy tale.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

That his dad is a do gooder who tried to. I don't know. The plot of Seven Samurai came to.

[Bill Simmons]

Thailand to do help locals with real estate stuff.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What does that mean?

[Mallory Rubin]

Keep a shady American from stealing their land.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

American try to steal their land. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

You and Robert joked about this recently, but like it actually is setting up.

[Mallory Rubin]

To be the Darth Vader. Anakin Vader, definitely Darth Vader. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Pulled it out of him, though. Like she got him to open up. People are. Rick's just opening up left and right.

[Joanna Robinson]

My God, is this a bit.

[Mallory Rubin]

You killed my father prepared to die kind of.

[Joanna Robinson]

Great stuff.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just great stuff to get the princess.

[Bill Simmons]

The last big thing on the boat was that we mentioned it. Greg and Greg. Gary and Ratliff having a drink.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Worrying.

[Bill Simmons]

Got sick of the rat race, apparently.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Also, I had my wife murdered and she was found on the water.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have a lot of notes still about His I have gone into hiding strategy, which is terrible.

[Mallory Rubin]

Why did he tell any of the story about Tanya?

[Joanna Robinson]

Any of it?

[Mallory Rubin]

With the weird why is he by another White Lotus?

[Joanna Robinson]

Why is his name basically the same thing?

[Bill Simmons]

He's one of the worst criminals in the world.

[Joanna Robinson]

Search to figure this out.

[Mallory Rubin]

I will say we did get emails from a bunch of people saying when you're in the witness protect protection program, apparently they advise that you change your name to something that is so that.

[Joanna Robinson]

You can like it feels more natural.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. So that when you. When you're called that you respond to it faster.

[Bill Simmons]

You got emails from people that telling us this. How would they know this?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, how is somebody that people.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, I was almost in witness protection and they told me I could go for build a Bob. Let's take one more break and then we gotta talk about the fancies. This episode is brought to you by Marvel Television's Daredevil. Born Again. Then Charlie Cox returns as vigilante lawyer Matt Murdock and Vincent D'Onofrio as former mob boss Wilson Fisk. The darker side of Matt Murdock is revealed when he gains a new perspective on his role as the Daredevil and faces an internal struggle between justice and revenge. The devil's work is never done. Born Again is now streaming only on Disney. So the fancies take us right now somewhere fun. You're our butler. You're coming with us. She's just unraveling. And we end up at a bar with the two friends, Alexi and Vlad.

[Mallory Rubin]

So glad someone's named Alexi. Almost every Russian I've ever met has been named Alexander, Alexi or Sasha, which is all the same name. And so I'm really glad that they got that.

[Bill Simmons]

Like those two, they look like just UFC fighters or bad guys.

[Joanna Robinson]

He had mentioned to Guy Talk when inviting him to the fight that one of his friends was a fighter. So that could certainly be one of them. But also they are the robbers for sure. I forgot that we have the fight coming.

[Bill Simmons]

So how many days away is that?

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

That was Friday night. And so is Piper's conversation.

[Bill Simmons]

There's a lot happening second to last episode.

[Mallory Rubin]

Vlad is definitely, I think, his friend who's in the fight. And also Guy Talk got a real good look at him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

When he came out, we did not.

[Joanna Robinson]

See the face, but he did. So he's going to be like, that's him, the robber.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's the robber. Kill.

[Joanna Robinson]

Killed before he's able to accidentally fire the gun. When the monkey Scares him.

[Mallory Rubin]

We need.

[Joanna Robinson]

We need a guy in a lot of places.

[Mallory Rubin]

Will the snake choker play into any of this? Because Chelsea was looking at the snake joker that we presume. Alexi.

[Joanna Robinson]

Snake tattoo.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, maybe.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's like, I need this because it matches my very question for you both about Valentine. Valentine.

[Bill Simmons]

So it's Valentine, not Valentine. Valentine. Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

So he, like, yelling at the front desk. Did you clock this when they talked.

[Bill Simmons]

To him when they came back?

[Joanna Robinson]

When they. Yeah. And they're like, why did you send us there?

[Mallory Rubin]

He's like, incredibly.

[Joanna Robinson]

But before he talks to them, like, the person at the front desk, he seemed to be, like, yelling at that person. He was like, I've never trusted him for a minute.

[Bill Simmons]

One on the show.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, like, what do you think that was? Was he like, I know for a fact they're not here. Let me in their room. Let me in the villa.

[Mallory Rubin]

Or part of the inside job of the boutique fallout.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. Was it something about the robbery that was suspicious and weird?

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't even notice that, like, the.

[Joanna Robinson]

Way he was behaving, it's. It's again, kind of like a version of. It does seem like legit, but kind of a version of all the Chelsea death things where it's like, you're saying it's. There's so much evidence. Is it meant to deceive us?

[Mallory Rubin]

I think he's just, at the very least, someone who helped pull off a boutique robbery and is about to show some ladies a good time and possibly also rob them. I was gonna say he wouldn't rob them because that's shitting where he eats, but he already helped rob the boutique where he works, so.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

Most surprising person who actually did the boutique robbery would be Moody Mook.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, yeah. I don't think Mook's in.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Mook is pure. Mook is pure.

[Bill Simmons]

That would be the shocker, though, right? This whole time, Mook's been double assassin.

[Mallory Rubin]

My dark horse, Pam. What's Pam doing? I'm just kidding. I don't think she's doing it. But I do want to shout out when he's walking towards her, and she's, like, looking up, eager to please, and then she's like, oh, no, you're popular. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Great stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

So we have Belinda.

[Mallory Rubin]

No. No, Pam, we're not doing this.

[Bill Simmons]

Belinda finally goes on the Internet.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Mm.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Pretty sure I would have done this immediately. I don't know why 20 hours had to pass.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree. I think you Google this guy right away.

[Bill Simmons]

Thinking about that lying in bed at night can't be like, hey, you know what I should do? Google Greg. Gary.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. So this was interesting. Like, I guess not that you necessarily keep tabs on people who fucked you over and didn't follow through on the business investment that they briefly toyed with.

[Mallory Rubin]

To my earlier point that we're not. We don't have a steady roster of who died at a white limit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, but this was major news. Like Tanya same. No, it was like abc. All the articles were national news. I was zooming in.

[Bill Simmons]

I think she would remember him pretty immediately.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And she was again able to piece it together fairly quickly. But.

[Mallory Rubin]

Don't know. I don't know. Like, you guys might have better memory than I do, but if I met Greg, yeah, I would remember Tanya, but I wouldn't necessarily remember.

[Bill Simmons]

I can't remember people I met yesterday.

[Joanna Robinson]

So I would be the worst person. Distinctive face. But I. I guess the. I think her taking a little while to place him makes sense, but because she specifically asked Dina, Tanya, I agree with you. Then, like, go Google it immediately. That delay felt a little.

[Mallory Rubin]

I disagree because I think tracking this character who says, like, I know I'm right. Like, I think she has to talk herself into that. I think she was. We're supposed to think of her as, like, so defeated by what happened to her in season one of White Lotus that this is like someone who's like, coming back into herself. So I think particularly, like, just sort of as someone who's like, I don't think she always trusts herself anymore about things. And then it just took her a moment, less than a day to do the Google, you know, true.

[Bill Simmons]

Doing it right away. ERIS drowns in Sicily under mysterious circumstances.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

ERIS HUSBAND wanted for questioning.

[Joanna Robinson]

So this is.

[Bill Simmons]

So they couldn't fucking find this guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

This is interesting. Like, not a surprise, but confirmation that he is, in fact, he's not just hiding, anticipating that he needs to hide. He is actively on the run.

[Bill Simmons]

Actively on the run because he has an awesome house next to another white Lotus.

[Mallory Rubin]

I just googled extradition Thailand.

[Joanna Robinson]

What's the answer?

[Mallory Rubin]

I know it's very complicated.

[Bill Simmons]

Greg hunt. Greg Hunt, 27 years Deputy Director at BLM.

[Joanna Robinson]

The BLM Season 1 plotline was her Black Lives Matter. Really A time on television with Tanya. What a moment that was.

[Bill Simmons]

So do you think going back to season one one now, granted, they wrote that during COVID and he's pumping it out, but do you think in season one when he meets Tanya, did they ever think that that would evolve into this? You think Mike White knew that in season one.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't think so.

[Bill Simmons]

I would say no.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tanya goes down to the pool to watch Greg swim. And a guy like a young, hot, buff, gorgeous chest hair that I remember.

[Mallory Rubin]

Quite vividly, I have to say.

[Joanna Robinson]

Say goes and sits next to her and marks her as a rich, lonely old woman who he can take advantage of. And it's in the exact moment where she's like entering into this courtship with Greg. So I think it was at least like, I did not clock out in real time watching season one, to be clear. But on revisiting it, it's like, oh, I wonder if that was at least something that they were considering.

[Mallory Rubin]

Greg being a scammer. Yes. But Tanya and Greg being like the through line of three seasons of television? I don't think so.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, but the idea that someone would look to take advantage of Tanya romantically to get to her money, I think was there.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, we got a stare down in the lobby. That was fun too. We also had Greg. Gary gives. Gives Chloe the boat for the night. Even after watching Saxy getting a little flirty and he's like, you know, pool on the boat.

[Mallory Rubin]

Imagine having a boat with a pool on it.

[Joanna Robinson]

It seems great.

[Mallory Rubin]

I simply would never leave.

[Joanna Robinson]

It seems fucking great.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, and then, then dive off the side too and just get.

[Joanna Robinson]

That looked wonderful.

[Mallory Rubin]

So many options.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so he finds Belinda's Instagram and.

[Mallory Rubin]

Is looking at the photos of her.

[Bill Simmons]

But that's the very end.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

A couple other things happen though. Chloe said. Rickos.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Leaves Chloe behind.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Chelsea behind.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Chelsea. And. And he said, the guy ruined my life from day one. And Chelsea said, but makes it seem like he's not going to kill him necessarily. And she goes, come on, I know you, Rick. This is what you do. What does that mean? This is what you do. Does that mean he's a hitman?

[Mallory Rubin]

It could be. That's been an early popular theory about Rick. I think it's more like once you do something, you do it all the way.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I see what you mean.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just need to look in his face and tell him what he did to me while he's still alive. And then she's like, I know you're not just gonna.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Plan to talk again. Very like dear Mr. Sawyer vibes here.

[Bill Simmons]

Then we're at dinner with the rat lips.

[Mallory Rubin]

Classic Scorpio.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly, this was Parker Posey's best scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

The dinner.

[Bill Simmons]

This is a convention for con men and tax cheats.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm sure you cheat on your taxes, Mom. Well, not so badly that we have to leave the country.

[Bill Simmons]

Wouldn't be a surprise if a few of them are actual killers. Well, we don't know how lucky we are to have a father who's an actual boy scout. Out. Tough be for our guy. Time for him to go see if.

[Mallory Rubin]

He can find his literal criminal. Yeah, who did a literal large investment in fraud. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Only made 10 million guys.

[Bill Simmons]

Only 10.

[Joanna Robinson]

What was the point?

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't get out of bed for.

[Joanna Robinson]

Less than 15 points.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Tim gets his phone back. He finds out that Kenny Wynn, I think was the guy's name. Cooperative the feds. Best we can do is cut a deal. I can't work in finance if I was in embezzlement and fraud. No kidding.

[Joanna Robinson]

You got bigger things to worry about.

[Bill Simmons]

I'd be shocked if they haven't frozen your assets already. I don't know if you have a joke follow up joke on that.

[Mallory Rubin]

Frozen assets.

[Bill Simmons]

Just a few months in prison.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

I would rather die. You understand me? I'd rather die. What do you want me to tell my family? We're fucking poor?

[Mallory Rubin]

The worst thing that could possibly happen to you.

[Bill Simmons]

And then he sees the gun.

[Joanna Robinson]

Get some better dry. He's dry.

[Bill Simmons]

He's come. Comes up from the dry.

[Joanna Robinson]

He sees the gun.

[Mallory Rubin]

This to me puts Tim actually down the he's gonna die list.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you know, because he has a gun and he's on drugs.

[Mallory Rubin]

Down because he says, I'd rather die. Do you hear me? I'd rather die. In. In the same way that like Chelsea being marked for death makes us think that she's less likely to die.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, so you think it's a throw off the scent?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think that he is going to. To try to kill himself, but I think he will be.

[Mallory Rubin]

Definitely think he's in some way, this is the plan with the gun? Yes, definitely.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's taking the gun. Also, I think the question of whether he tries to shoot himself or whether he suffers some sort of medical event because like he's taking all of these pills, he's drinking a lot, passes out.

[Mallory Rubin]

In the pond, something.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like Zion finds his body accidentally in.

[Joanna Robinson]

A haze, eats the poison fruit. Who knows?

[Bill Simmons]

Fruit blender still in play.

[Joanna Robinson]

Fruit blender still in play at Definitely. People loved that theory. Oh yeah, people loved the poison smoothie theory. I think if he goes. Because he goes back to the dinner table. So then the question is, does he have some time? But again, he said to Pam, she's like, I hope you don't need this again. He's like, I won't. It seems like he's prepared to act imminently. So is he gonna go back that night? If the whole next episode is this night, which we think it's gonna be.

[Bill Simmons]

That's interesting. Could it be a. Could it be a Tim disappears?

[Mallory Rubin]

Could be he's just gone on his mind.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's part of why I feel like the.

[Mallory Rubin]

The.

[Joanna Robinson]

The prospect of Tim trying to harm himself feels like a next episode.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe he has a gun fend off.

[Joanna Robinson]

What if we go into hiding? Is like episode six, seven, eight. And there's still time for. For both of those. But if G is trying to get the gun back, does he make his way into that village villa and stop him?

[Mallory Rubin]

Or does he make his way into the villa, get caught on camera and accused of stealing the laraz? Pam. That's why season one it is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Kai.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, well, Guy Talk has the security footage in his back pocket.

[Joanna Robinson]

He does.

[Bill Simmons]

So we leave with Guy Talk freaking out, Angry Rick in the airport, Ratliff at dinner, just completely broken, you know, Greg Gary looking at Belinda on Social. Saxon parting on the boat and screaming, full moon, baby. Great te for we are headed toward an incred bow. Episode 5 I'm excited.

[Joanna Robinson]

I can't wait.

[Bill Simmons]

Predictions.

[Joanna Robinson]

Zion seeing Greg. Greg Gary seeing Zion. So, okay, here's my question for you guys. What feels more likely? And does this. Does this in any way change for you guys? Just like now, thinking back to the opening of the season, which was, of course, with Zion, and he's very scared in response to the shootout about his mom.

[Mallory Rubin]

Nervous about his mom.

[Joanna Robinson]

And at the time.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a good point. So she tells him at some point.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or does Greg send people out after him? Like, that's what I. I'm wondering about now, because watching the beginning of the first episode, my response is like, of course she would be worried about any of your loved ones if, God forbid, you found yourself in a situation like that. But it feels more keen, and it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Feels like he knows someone's after my mom. They're in trouble.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, like, are. Is Greg Gary gonna use Zion and his existence to manipulate Belinda? Like, I know you have a son. If you want him to stay safe, keep your mouth shut, shut. Or is he going to try to get to Zion in some way to make Belinda vulnerable through her son and try to control the situation that way? The fact that this episode established a timeline not just for his arrival, but his travel, he's like, I'm at the airport. I'm coming. I Don't know. It just made me wonder. Now he's got his tag on Instagram, clicks through, sees him at the airport, sends one of his fellow con men to go find him. I wouldn't rule it out, Greg. Gary is a criminal.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I throw in a bonus? What if. What if the Russians are on his payroll too?

[Joanna Robinson]

They could be.

[Bill Simmons]

And he did the robbery because he's still trying to make some cash.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think he has.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's doing very well with the house.

[Mallory Rubin]

Boutique cash and the yacht.

[Joanna Robinson]

Doing very well. The other thing is Zion said in that first episode that his mom knows he had been pretty stressed out. Just finishing finals and some other stuff. He has some connection to this. Right. Some awareness of what's happening thing. Very worried about Zion.

[Bill Simmons]

Not great. I'm not attached to him yet because we've only seen him in one scene.

[Mallory Rubin]

Literally not shown up yet. Also, like, time to, like, how much.

[Bill Simmons]

In danger would Zion have been if the first time we see him, he's doing, like, one of those goofy therapy things? Right? I mean, like, let's hide in the room.

[Joanna Robinson]

Being in danger and more. Whether he becomes embroiled in this plot. Like, what feels increasingly likely this season is that a lot of what goes wrong is because people are trying to, like, the guy talk situation. Trying to impress somebody afraid of losing something or, you know, Tim, what will my family think of me? Zion, potentially? I need to protect my mother. Like, everybody's one degree removed from some sort of direct action. And is that perhaps actually more combustible as a circumstance? So kind of interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

We know something crazy happens in episode five. We don't know what it is. We all have to make a crazy prediction.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, what.

[Mallory Rubin]

What stories from the weekend do you want to tell us? All of them.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll do that after we do the predictions. Okay. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Let's see. So they're gonna be on the party.

[Mallory Rubin]

At sexual misconduct on the party yacht.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, not like. Not like. Yeah, assault, but just sort of like.

[Joanna Robinson]

Some Lockie and Saxon ending up in an orgy together.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Some incest. Some actual canonical incest.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, that's what it feels like.

[Joanna Robinson]

That seems totally right. Also, at the other party, the other full moon party at the club. Jacqueline stealing Laurie's.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

A lot of sex coming in the next episode. I think.

[Bill Simmons]

I think the yacht's fine.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That would be for prediction meter. No, I think the.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, it's gonna be about weird stuff happening on a boat every season.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's gonna be. I think it's gonna be Be off the, you know, off the beaten path. And it's going to be crazy and fun. But I don't think that's where we're getting the crazy thing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's the three ladies. I think it's something with one of the three.

[Joanna Robinson]

It could also be Rick.

[Bill Simmons]

Those three Russian guys. Like something up is happening.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

With that. My guess. I don't know. I'm just like judging it from the first four. Carrie Coon's been quiet.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like that. That.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not saying they're shoving her aside, but it's like they just kind of are in the bullpen warming up for like a. She's too good of an actress. Like this isn't a good enough part yet. And I feel like strikeout pitch.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's play it.

[Mallory Rubin]

You should have wild out. Or also.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[Mallory Rubin]

We had people point out to us that like Lori is like a ball busting lawyer. So like in terms of a fight that might happen in the aftermath, I wouldn't want to fight. Lawyer story.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

Of. Of the three of them. And I say ball busting as a compliment.

[Bill Simmons]

But it could also be an actress thing with. With Jackie where something. She does something crazy. But then there's pictures or there's a photographer like. But that's not like crazy crazy.

[Mallory Rubin]

I mean, film moon. Like you asked me if I know anything about astrology and I don't. But Full moon mythologically is like everyone. Matt. Lunacy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Madness. Everyone. Midsummer Night's Dream. Everyone just sort of giving over. Over to their base's impulses.

[Bill Simmons]

It would be funny if Joe moved to LA and then just really got into astrology.

[Mallory Rubin]

Seems like.

[Bill Simmons]

Joke about that.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's all on offer for you here in this great city.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's all she talks about. She just pitched an astrology pod.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think you'd be great. I think you'd be great. A daily micropod play with the format.

[Mallory Rubin]

So is it an astrology pod for me and a creep detector pod for Ron Mahoney? Is that what you're saying?

[Bill Simmons]

And a prosthetic penis pod for me and.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly right. I think everybody has found their calling. That's what I'm hearing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Niche for everyone. Love.

[Joanna Robinson]

Will we actually spend time with Rick in Bangkok? In the next episode? He. It's a short flight.

[Bill Simmons]

I think It's a lock.

[Joanna Robinson]

7:00 short flight. So he hits the ground immediately. Right. He goes and finds Jim Hollinger.

[Bill Simmons]

But our day sequence is kind of up now. Well, I guess it's got.

[Mallory Rubin]

I just don't know what day we start. This is what we talked about before. We don't know that they like checked in on Monday. We don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

The only thing we know is we haven't had the fights yet. So. So I think, I feel like we're on a Wednesday and this is a two part Wednesday and there' then there would be three days left. Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because guy talk. Would we have the dance that night? That's the other thing. We're not just at the party yacht and the club. We've got the dance back at the White Lotus that he's attending. So that's this night and then he invites Mook on a date the next night. He's got the plans for the fight the night after. So we're at least two nights on Fridays.

[Mallory Rubin]

You don't think the date is the fight?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think he's misjudging the situation with Mook. If that's their first date.

[Mallory Rubin]

Take Mook to the fights as a.

[Joanna Robinson]

His whole thing is like, I want to be the impressive one. Not, look at these hot go killer guys flex their muscles in front of you and sweat.

[Bill Simmons]

One more possibility, like Locky doing the thing where he just. Maybe he tries coke. A sex thing. Sex thing gone wrong. Yeah, sex murder on the yacht. I think that's got to be sexual.

[Mallory Rubin]

Sexual on the yacht.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then maybe, maybe Tim going to Greg Gary's house.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh for like disappear me. Yeah, sort of thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Help me out.

[Bill Simmons]

But I don't know how crazy that is.

[Mallory Rubin]

Or tries to kill himself.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just check. Yeah, just check off scone come into play next episode.

[Bill Simmons]

I think so if we're heading towards an episode where people are like, I can't believe it hasn't come out yet. I'm. I'm just. Honestly, all bets are off.

[Mallory Rubin]

Also, should we not maybe like lower expectations so we don't watch it and go like, oh, that wasn't that big of a deal. Do you know what I mean? I just, I want us to protect ourselves and our listeners who are like, you promised me the coolest episode of television I'd ever seen.

[Joanna Robinson]

Every episode of White Lotus, I think something astonishing happens because I'm like, how could people behave this way?

[Mallory Rubin]

If you go in with lower expectations and then you're just surprised and delighted, that's great. And if you go in thinking it's gonna be the greatest thing ever and.

[Joanna Robinson]

It'S, I'm expecting a werewolf orgy under the full moon and anything Else will be a disappointment.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay, I support you.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll just give you one tidbit from the weekend.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow. Just one.

[Bill Simmons]

Ran into Patrick Schwarzenegger. Used to play basketball with me and Jacoby at usc.

[Joanna Robinson]

You forgot that you played basketball with Patrick?

[Bill Simmons]

He brought this up to me because I had no idea who he was. He was going to usc and he played basketball with us many times. Apparently. Many times we talked pickup basketball.

[Joanna Robinson]

Was he not very good that you don't have the experience?

[Bill Simmons]

We played with college kids. We used to play like, yo, Jacobe.

[Mallory Rubin]

Was over the moon text about playing basketball with ER doctors and gave me a whole rundown on what's accurate about the kit and what's not.

[Bill Simmons]

I would guess he was. Was probably pretty good though, because he was happy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Half Schwarzenegger.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, half Schwarzenegger. Good athlete.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But also.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

He's. He seems like he's in good shape. He's tall.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's very tall.

[Joanna Robinson]

What did he think of your game? Did he provide any. Anything?

[Bill Simmons]

I think he was impressed.

[Joanna Robinson]

Huh? Yeah, I think. Did he like, how's your mid rage jumper? What did he say?

[Bill Simmons]

He didn't. We didn't go that deep.

[Mallory Rubin]

So Damon Lindelof complimented your baseball skills.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And.

[Mallory Rubin]

And then that one.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't remember. The USC did have some good times.

[Mallory Rubin]

Schwarzenegger, like, sounded like you got some favorable scoring.

[Bill Simmons]

Who is tall and beautiful?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Well, the next time I see the two of you, wow.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

Something major will have happened.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can't wait.

[Bill Simmons]

I feel like we're getting sex in this next episode. And probably a death.

[Joanna Robinson]

Early death sex ahead of the show parlay on FanDuel.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm in. Plus 200. I'd bet the sex. Death parlay. Maybe not. Same character. Character.

[Joanna Robinson]

Little Simmons special here.

[Bill Simmons]

Plus we get to go to Bangkok, where I've never really been other than a couple movies.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can't wait.

[Mallory Rubin]

Bangkok. Dangerous. Thrilled.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, that's it. We'll see you next time. Oh, and you have the deep dive pod with Mahoney.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Coming. What are you doing Wednesdays?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, Wednesdays.

[Joanna Robinson]

You have touched our heart.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Great to see you as always. Thanks to the crew as well. We'll see you next week.