‘The White Lotus’ Season 3 Finale: Fatal Attraction

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast: ‘The White Lotus’ Season 3 Finale – Fatal Attraction

Released on April 7, 2025

Hosts: Mallory Rubin, Bill Simmons, and Chris Ryan

---

Introduction

In the Season 3 Finale of “The White Lotus”, titled “Fatal Attraction”, the cast faces unprecedented turmoil marked by multiple deaths, intense character arcs, and profound thematic explorations. In this episode, The Prestige TV Podcast delves deep into the finale, unpacking key moments, character developments, and the overarching messages conveyed by creator Mike White. Hosted by Mallory Rubin, alongside Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan, the trio provides a comprehensive analysis enriched with insightful commentary and notable quotes from the episode.

Episode Overview

The finale erupted with chaos as numerous bodies were discovered, signaling a departure from previous seasons' formats. Mallory Rubin remarks at [01:34] how “real-time Spotify theater shit went down” with “Bodies. Yeah, multiple bodies. I don't even know where to start.” The hosts express their bewilderment and intrigue over the sudden spike in fatalities, questioning the narrative direction and execution.

Character Analysis and Storylines

Ratliff Family Dynamics

A central focus is the Ratliff family, particularly Rick Ratliff and his son Saxon. Mallory Rubin questions [02:54] what Mike White intended with the family saga, noting, “More bodies on the ground than ever before,” and “[Rick] has been acting weird for like four days, but he's been acting weird the entire time we've known him.” This ongoing dysfunction culminates in Rick’s morally ambiguous actions, including the poisoning plot against his bodyguards.

Bill Simmons highlights [03:00] the escalation: “More episodes, a longer episode count.” He and Chris Ryan discuss the plausibility of Rick’s decisions, such as his return to the resort post-incident, questioning his judgment and the absence of immediate repercussions.

Belinda’s Transformation

Belinda’s character arc transitions into a mirror image of Tanya, marking her as she becomes “the new Tanya” by [03:15] willingly causing chaos over her love interest, Pornchy. Mallory observes [03:15], “Belinda is like, I am a multi-millionaire now. But that is a prison that they have created for themselves, full of moral compromise.”

Saxon’s Enlightenment and Guilty Conscience

Saxon’s journey towards enlightenment is dissected, especially his moment of profound guilt after the poisoning incident. Mallory notes [15:09], “He carries the guilt with him forever,” while Bill emphasizes his struggle with identity and karmic cycles, stating, “[Saxon] is still going to the White Lotus.”

Piper’s Disillusionment

Piper’s arc showcases the disillusionment of a rich individual seeking purpose, which vanishes within 24 hours. Mallory critiques her character development, noting her regression: “Now she has to go home and find out that she's like, oh my God, maybe I am a princess.” This transformation symbolizes the fleeting nature of self-discovery in a superficial environment.

Themes and Insights

Fate vs. Free Will

The season grapples with fate and destiny, encapsulated in the Buddha’s message: “[It] becomes easier to accept there is no resolution.” The hosts debate whether Mike White leaned too heavily into mystery, diluting the more grounded narratives of previous seasons.

Identity as a Prison

Drawing from Piper’s book, “Identity is a prison,” the discussion explores how characters forge new identities that ultimately confine them. Bill articulates, “[Characters] moved into a new identity, and that identity is the prison,” highlighting Belinda and Rick’s moral compromises.

Moral Compromise and Survival

The finale underscores the lengths characters go to survive, often at the expense of their principles. Mallory critiques [10:50], “The poison fruit tree... couldn't get the job done,” emphasizing the hollow victories in their survival tactics.

Notable Quotes

• Mallory Rubin at [03:00]: “More bodies on the ground than ever before.”
• Chris Ryan at [14:33]: “He has to do it himself.”
• Bill Simmons at [05:19]: “White Lotus is always cynical, but this is one of the most memorable storylines.”
• Mallory Rubin at [25:11]: “Sometimes you have bad taste in men. That's it.”

Performance Highlights and Emmy Predictions

The hosts passionately debate Emmy frontrunners from the season, highlighting standout performances:

• Parker Posey: Celebrated for her “iconic facial expressions” and transforming her character believably ([07:55]).
• Amy Lou: Garnering praise for her nuanced portrayal and emotional depth.
• Carrie Coon: Recognized for her profound emotional moments, particularly Laurie’s impactful speech ([27:22]).
• Sam Rockwell and Patrick Schwarzenegger: Acknowledged as strong supporting actors, with Rockwell being a wildcard for the awards.

Future Speculations and Season 4 Directions

Speculation swirls around potential settings and character continuations for Season 4:

• Saxon’s Journey: Possibilities include a cold-weather setting like Norway or Sweden, providing a stark contrast to previous locales ([56:28]).
• Character Crossovers: The notion of bringing back characters from prior seasons, especially Greg Gary, who remains a constant presence.

The hosts express enthusiasm for continuing Saxon’s story, with mixed feelings about other characters’ fates.

Overall Reception and Ratings

The trio rates the seasons as follows:

1. Season 1: Preferred by Bill Simmons for its unexpected twists and impactful storytelling ([54:57]).
2. Season 2: Favored by Chris Ryan for maintaining the show's quality.
3. Season 3: Received with criticism from Mallory Rubin and others for its extended episode count and unresolved plotlines.

Despite criticisms, the podcast team acknowledges the show's cultural impact and the engaging performances that keep audiences invested.

Concluding Thoughts

The White Lotus Season 3 Finale, “Fatal Attraction”, delivers a tumultuous end filled with dramatic character exits and thematic explorations of identity, fate, and moral compromise. The Prestige TV Podcast offers a thorough dissection of these elements, balancing praise for stellar performances with critiques of narrative execution. As the hosts look forward to Season 4, they remain hopeful yet cautious about the show's direction, eager to unravel more of its intricate storytelling.

---

Note: All quotes are attributed accurately with corresponding timestamps to maintain the integrity of the hosts' perspectives and discussions.

Transcript

[Mallory Rubin]

This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apple Card is a no fee credit card that gives you daily cash back every day. That's 3% back at Apple and 2% back on every purchase made with Apple Card using Apple Pay. Apply for Apple Card, the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Variable APRs for Apple Card range from 18.24% to 28.49% based on creditworthiness rates as of January 1, 202025 Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and [e-mail] this.

[Joanna Robinson]

Episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company Non Alcoholic Brews. Look, sometimes you want one, sometimes you're like, I don't know if right now is the best time for one. That's where Athletic Brewing Company comes in. They've hooked your boy up. I am a huge fan of Upside dawn the golden this March. Don't miss the sports action with athletic head athletic brewing.com ringer to find it near you or shop online. That's athleticbrewing.com R I N G E R to find award winning Athletic NA brews near you. Athletic Brewing Company Fit for all times near beer.

[Mallory Rubin]

Prestige TV Podcast Mallory Rubin's here. Joanna Robinson's here. We've only seen this episode once, just.

[Bill Simmons]

Now, mere moments ago.

[Mallory Rubin]

Real time Spotify theater shit went down. Bodies. Yeah, multiple bodies. I don't even know where to start.

[Chris Ryan]

The coconut milk is off. We could start there. The coconut milk is off.

[Mallory Rubin]

The lacori is okay. The coconut milk is off. We have five dead bodies. I have a lot of questions about your instant reaction. We didn't even acknowledge each other. Your instant reaction, Joe.

[Bill Simmons]

There's two stories that I really, really love, the way they ended and I really am excited to think about them and talk about them. And then there's a lot of other things that happen that I need more time than we have to process, I think.

[Mallory Rubin]

But so like a thumb sideways?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, sideways thumb. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Mal I am processing in real time too. We've only seen it once. It was extra hefty. A very ample poisoned fruit pod. I liked a few of the storylines quite a bit as well and found them very moving. I have questions about a couple of them. I really loved the season overall, but I'm excited to talk to you guys about whether we think season three of White Lotus tipped a little too far into mystery first and let's all chase the theorizing all season and then it's really about that at the end. I think the first two seasons were about that a little bit, but mostly about what's going on in here. And that that was a slightly more successful formula than what we got here.

[Mallory Rubin]

What do you think, Mike? What do you think Mike Wake was trying to do with this? Because way more bodies than we've ever had.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. More episodes, a longer episode count. More bodies on the ground than ever before.

[Mallory Rubin]

More religious and spiritual than we've ever had.

[Bill Simmons]

More ambitious in terms of going out to, like, big parties. Going to a different city entirely.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Fate seems to be the number one thing here. You have Belinda basically becoming Tanya in some ways, where she's, like, in more than some ways, willingly just ready to stampede over poor pornchy.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes, she is.

[Mallory Rubin]

And be the new Tanya. She basically does it.

[Bill Simmons]

Where's your. Where's your thumb?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. What's your reaction? Give us the overall. The overall take.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'd have to see it again.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah. Same.

[Mallory Rubin]

I was left with more questions than answers.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't. I hate leading with nitpicks, but that was a lot of commotion to have on a resort. And then everybody going, all right, so get on the boat. Your boat's at 2:00.

[Bill Simmons]

The fancy is just giggling all the way home.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you guys think this one will finally make the news? I was like.

[Bill Simmons]

The whole time, I was like, mallory is finally gonna get her wish. First of all, anyone who stays at the White Lotus in season four.

[Chris Ryan]

Exactly. I have so many notes for everyone.

[Mallory Rubin]

In season four, the three ladies are witnesses to a murder.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And it's like, bye.

[Mallory Rubin]

The family has the youngest son basically almost overdoses on poisoned fruit. And then he's fine. Let's. He'll be fine on the plane.

[Bill Simmons]

He's on the boat the next day.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

He seemed like he didn't feel great on the boat, to be fair, you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Know, and everybody just kind of goes off. Belinda just goes off. Even though we saw in the first episode, Belinda's son is in the water with a dead body floating by him.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Like, all right, $5 million, Thailand. I'll see you later.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think that's just one of the bodyguards that floated by him?

[Chris Ryan]

It could be. It could be. Yeah. It could be either of the bodyguards. You know, it's a. I think that because Rick and Chelsea were, you know, in the physical manifestation of the thematic yin and yang that Chelsea had previously mentioned, it wasn't them that floated towards Zion, because that seemed to be a.

[Bill Simmons]

Sole source, given where Chelsea's bullet hole was in the yin and yang where do you think Rick's bullet hole was then?

[Chris Ryan]

You know, he seemed to catch back shoulder a little bit. And, you know, we. We had heard from Chelsea this yin and yang, this eternal battle, hopefully pain. Which one went out?

[Bill Simmons]

Neither wins. I guess just a very.

[Chris Ryan]

This is a very depressing end to the scene.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm very cynical in terms of what.

[Chris Ryan]

We take with us.

[Bill Simmons]

White Lotus is always cynical, but this is, I think, is one of the most like the two storylines that I think are going to stick with me for a long time. The two final images. Belinda in the Tanya role and then guy talk in his, like, new bodyguard role with. He got the girl, got the job, but at what cost, you know, in his face as he drives away justice going on.

[Mallory Rubin]

That, though, because you have Carrie Coon as Laurie.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Who I'm interested basically by the end of the week is like, you know what? I was just happy to be here. And I don't care if I kind of sold my soul out for the week, but it was a pleasure to be in your company.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a quick question for you guys. If you're like, I love that you're beautiful. I love that you have a beautiful life, and then you guys go, that's nice, and say nothing nice to me.

[Chris Ryan]

Nice book into the beginning when there were compliments going.

[Bill Simmons]

And you're also here, Lori, and you're.

[Mallory Rubin]

Here, and you have two arms and two legs and a head.

[Bill Simmons]

And you sure are here, Lori.

[Mallory Rubin]

So she sells out a little bit because her vacation got paid for. Belinda sells out a little bit. Tim is the big one where we had to watch Tim just brooding and kept expecting some sort of resolution. Like, we theorized he would theorized he would get the phone and would find out like, hey, this blew over. We're gonna be good. And said that didn't happen.

[Bill Simmons]

We don't know. Well, Saxon's face looking at his phone seems what?

[Chris Ryan]

Here's what I would like to believe. That Saxon is not reading fucking shit from Terry Office or anyone else about Ratliff Scandal. And he is instead, hopefully reading note from Chloe, who seems preoccupied looking for the guy to fuck so Greg Garrett can watch. But hopefully an update that Chelsea died so that Saxon can go back and mourn her properly.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think that's what's going to happen.

[Chris Ryan]

That's my headcanon.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the old head cannon.

[Bill Simmons]

That's sweet.

[Mallory Rubin]

These resorts aren't that big if there's like, gunshots everywhere and multiple bodies and police and Thailand police, like, nobody's leaving that resort for like 12 hours.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And you're like, wait, did we know anybody who got killed? The guy who owns the hotel, two other people, some lady. Like, what lady? I would just have more questions.

[Chris Ryan]

The woman who changed your life, Saxon. The woman who made you a reader.

[Bill Simmons]

Doesn't matter.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, he. He reads fast, though. He went to Duke.

[Chris Ryan]

Went to Duke.

[Bill Simmons]

He went to Duke after all.

[Chris Ryan]

That killed me. I was really laughing at that. That was so funny.

[Bill Simmons]

There was some great early Ratliff comedy in this episode.

[Chris Ryan]

We all very entertained.

[Bill Simmons]

We all cracked up at Parker Posey's face. When Piper comes back and is like, I don't think the food was organic.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And there was like a stain on the mattress.

[Chris Ryan]

Very bland.

[Bill Simmons]

And Victoria's trying really hard to just be like, just passively take it in and not throw herself a parade. And then she can't help it. And she's like, let's buy you something from the boutique, babe. You're no longer wearing cute little prairie dresses. Whole new wardrobe, new Piper. Let's go.

[Chris Ryan]

We spent all season debating, like, who was the Emmy frontrunner. I think Parker Posey sealed it with the facial expressions alone in this episode. Just absolutely iconic.

[Mallory Rubin]

Possibly probably Parker Posey. Sam Rockwell. I don't know. Carrie Coon made a really strong run the last couple episodes.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm excited to talk. I have a slightly. Slightly different, but not totally different, but slightly different read on the. On the. Larry.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, can we go big picture? Because I'm trying to anticipate how this is dissected tonight and tomorrow.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So I thought. I really love season one. I thought season two was executed perfectly.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

And I really thoroughly enjoyed watching season three, but I don't think they landed the plane in a lot of the same ways. And just too many open ended questions even coming out of this. I get what they're trying to do, but for eight episodes, the amount of time they spent setting everything up, I think they have some loose ends.

[Bill Simmons]

So what are your loose ends that you want to talk about?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, I mean, some of the nitpick stuff. Like, so Rick, the last episode, they scoot out of there after he pushes over Jim Hollinger to get away from the bodyguards and then just goes back to the resort like, everything's cool. Hey, what are we doing for breakfast? Like, he doesn't think there's gonna be any repercussions.

[Bill Simmons]

Rick has been, yeah, this is the.

[Chris Ryan]

No prep con man.

[Mallory Rubin]

But how stupid do you have to be, though? Obviously you have to get the fuck.

[Bill Simmons]

Out of the way you have to.

[Mallory Rubin]

Get the fuck out of the resort. Like that day. Hey, honey, we're out. I just got into a thing with Jim Hollinger. We're out.

[Bill Simmons]

He gets there.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

The night before. He's like, pack your bag. Like, he shouldn't have even gone back to the resort. Right. Given that he went back to meet.

[Mallory Rubin]

Me at the airport.

[Bill Simmons]

Meet me at the airport.

[Chris Ryan]

Famously, those two were call each other all season long and missing each other's calls. So quick text. Hey, meet me here.

[Bill Simmons]

Why not? Yeah. Appalling that that he not only went back to the resort was just sort of like, let's have a leisurely fruit filled breakfast.

[Chris Ryan]

That contraption with the donuts on the prongs though, I'm glad we got to see that because it's wonderful. I would love a donut tree. Is that on offer?

[Bill Simmons]

I'll get you one.

[Chris Ryan]

A donut tree.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, so a couple things we theorized.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Ended up hitting the toxic evil fruit. Knew that was going to come back.

[Bill Simmons]

Does it feel good, the fruit, as soon as the fruit went in the blender, did you feel good about it? I did, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I, you know, another nitpick is the dad's just going to leave the poison stuff in the blender. But yeah, I'm going to head to bed.

[Bill Simmons]

That's when I started yelling at the screen, yeah, you got to watch the rinse the blender out. But yeah, here's my major. I mean, Rick coming back to the White Lotus. I don't mind a one mode of death fake out, so. Oh, no. He's poured poison pina coladas for the whole family and then he slaps it out of Saxon's hand. It's genuinely hilarious. Jeremy was laughing his head off like, it was great. But then to have another death fake out with the same, like, poison drink. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like your double poison drink. Faking out the audience. That was not my favorite.

[Mallory Rubin]

How about this? The poison fruit tree, a little overrated. Couldn't get the job done. Multiple chances to murder the rat lips. Couldn't do it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Without one sip. Would have killed it. Like, they all took a sip.

[Chris Ryan]

Parker Posey took a big swig and a total bust. Yeah, you would think somebody would have at least like some gastrointestinal cramping or something from the just the one to two sip crowd. But no, they're all completely fine.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought they would be up all night shitting themselves. Yeah, exactly. Something. Pam, you oversold the tree. Oversold it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Let's go back to the beginning and then we can. We'll tackle everybody in groups here.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

So start of the episode, the Buddha's talking, everyone's looking sad. And the Buddha says, it becomes easier to accept there is no resolution. And I was trying to wonder, is Mike White talking to us? There's going to be no resolution in this episode. Well, that turned out to be wrong because five people died. The rat lifts. We'll start with them.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

Piper. Nice. 181 night on a cot. Doesn't want Locky to come with her. Says, just let me up my own life. Okay. Has the big hug with the mom. So her arc is basically, she's full of shit. Rich kid who dabbled in the I'm going to try to save the world and try to find my inner self. And it lasted 24 hours. So now she's hopeless.

[Bill Simmons]

This is exactly. Well, but now she has to go home and find out that she's like, oh my God, maybe I am a princess. And then what?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Victoria gives this epic speech about no one's ever lived as well as we have, not even the kings and queens of old. Right. And we have to enjoy it or else it's insulting if we don't.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know if that was true, Victoria.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know if you're letting billions of people down by not enjoying it.

[Bill Simmons]

Nope, I don't think that's the case. But I think that I'd show that how that works. But for Piper to be like, maybe I am just a spoiled princess and I should just embrace it. And she starts again wearing different print clothing that her mom bought for her for her to then go home to. A rude awakening of no money. Presumably.

[Chris Ryan]

Presumably. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Is interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Worst case, Saxon is reading, sell all your principles and then live without the thing you just sold them for. Anyway, Saxon, what was he reading?

[Mallory Rubin]

Did you get a look at the book?

[Chris Ryan]

I have slacked our producers to see.

[Bill Simmons]

He was. I. I wrote it down. Hold on. He was reading. I know that he was reading Pima. Start where you are by Pima Chaudron, who's like a well known Buddhist writer sort of person. But I thought the way that like Chelsea was talking about.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Pima's work earlier in terms of like.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

There are these groups and they're full of people you have met or you haven't met. We could be in the same group or not.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought that was really interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And that's like been part of the theme of the season Too, you know, including even, like, Tim's meeting with the monk at the monastery. This idea of, like, this drop of water or the return, what are you a part of? And that opening note from the first episode on Piper's book, identity is a prison. Well, like, which characters not only were able or were not able to break out of that? Obviously, like, Rick is not able to ultimately. Right. But which characters even wanted to. Which characters were even ultimately interested in trying to. It's a really short list this season.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's interesting. But I think what's also interesting is, like, which are the characters who moved into a new identity, and that identity is the prison. And that's what I think of when I think of Guy Talk. I think of Belinda is like, they've. They've. He's like, I am a badass bodyguard now. Belinda's like, I am a multi millionaire now. But that is a prison that they have created for themselves, full of moral compromise.

[Mallory Rubin]

Pornchise. Just a pleaser. Lachi's just a pleaser.

[Chris Ryan]

That was great.

[Bill Simmons]

That.

[Chris Ryan]

The callback to Lachi's correction posture.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, pleaser.

[Chris Ryan]

People, pleaser. You know, you meet people on their plane of reality. But.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, that was part of the Rat Left's arc. The Locky Saxon, a little tense. Saxon says, no one's gonna make you a man. You gotta do it yourself about the thing. And then.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, that's why he made his smoothie.

[Mallory Rubin]

So don't worship me. Meaning don't worship. Worship me.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

And Lockie apologizes, I'm a pleaser.

[Bill Simmons]

And, Bill, do you wanna share?

[Mallory Rubin]

I saw you lying there and you felt left out.

[Chris Ryan]

That was very.

[Bill Simmons]

Bill, do you wanna share with the audience what you said when he said that? What did I say?

[Mallory Rubin]

Tell me.

[Bill Simmons]

Locky made some good points.

[Mallory Rubin]

Pleaser.

[Bill Simmons]

You did.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, you did look left out.

[Bill Simmons]

You're making some good points.

[Mallory Rubin]

You.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, right there on the bed. The beds are very close to each other in a yacht cabin.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, is Saxon bummed out if Lachie overdoses and dies from the poison blender or.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

I think he carries the guilt with him forever.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Without question, Lockie makes that smoothie on his own because Saxon has been telling him all season, drink these shakes, Buff. We gotta buffing you up. And then, like. And then that. No one's gonna make a man out of you. You have to do it yourself. And, like, that's Locky's way of trying to do it himself is to just, like, mimic the behavior of this other person. Anyway, I think he Would be but.

[Bill Simmons]

Is torn up is your question. That's one less person who knows what happened on the yacht.

[Mallory Rubin]

Then. Then it's just Chloe and Chelsea. There's only two left.

[Bill Simmons]

Chelsea gone. Chloe.

[Chris Ryan]

Does Saxon know? Hard to say.

[Bill Simmons]

Mel, can I ask you a question since we're heavily into our last of us prep.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

When the rat lives are like going to breakfast and Locky sort of like twitching in the foreground. Were you thinking about Nana Adler and the. And the cordyceps.

[Chris Ryan]

Did you have a raisin cookie?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, exactly.

[Chris Ryan]

Any infected flower. Yeah, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I didn't get that joke.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm sorry.

[Chris Ryan]

You're missing out, man. You're missing out.

[Mallory Rubin]

The dad asked Locky, you think you could live with no money? And he said, yeah, I think I could. He passed the you don't have to drink the poison blender.

[Chris Ryan]

But then what would the cost of that have been? Before Tim has his moment of looking at his into his son's eyes and knocking the glass out of his hand, he's going to leave the one child he thinks is prepared and equipped to cope with his failure to mourn.

[Mallory Rubin]

All saying he might be a bad dad.

[Bill Simmons]

Knit to pick.

[Chris Ryan]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

I would like to ask the legal department to weigh in on this. Surely Tim Ratliff has life insurance. Does Lockheed. Is that safe from the feds?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

The life insurance payout on Tim Ratliff. And would Lockheed be set up?

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't know if there's a poison my family life insurance piece. Probably not. I think the life insurance company's fighting that. We got to see Pam again. She brought the phones back.

[Chris Ryan]

Wonderful stuff.

[Mallory Rubin]

Warned him about the suicide trees because God forbid they just got rid of the suicide trees in the Thailand resort. Yeah, just keep those things around.

[Bill Simmons]

As it turns out, just causes a slight tummy ache.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, you throw up a couple times in the pool, you get to commune with God, then you go about your day.

[Mallory Rubin]

So you think not only overrated but just completely full of shit. Because there was like enough residue left with the drink he made and he drank all of it that according to what she said, he should have died.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I don't know the lethality of the individual seed. Tim did put a whole lot of seeds in that blender. Many garlic cloves. But is your. Are you positing that if it had just been that seed without those sort of like pina colada and then the dump out and then the protein powder and then the water, it would have gotten the job done?

[Mallory Rubin]

No, because I think it's as potent. No matter what. If he finished it, he's still finishing the seed.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I was waiting for him to get rushed to the hospital because we had the snake bite and the canonically established distance of the hospital. But no, we just had some extended cradling.

[Mallory Rubin]

So when he makes the. He makes everybody some. Some pina coladas.

[Chris Ryan]

Yep.

[Mallory Rubin]

First of all, I would be immediately suspicious if my dad, out of nowhere was like, I've made us all pina coladas. It's like, that's weird. You've never seen you drink one in your life. This guy's like a scotch whiskey dude.

[Bill Simmons]

He is a whiskey.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's just making pina coladas out of nowhere and ordering it to the room.

[Bill Simmons]

And when in Thailand, probably that's not the origin of a pina colada.

[Mallory Rubin]

And he says, I couldn't ask for more perfect family than flips it knocks the glass out. Coconut milk is off. My bad. And Vicki says, is that it, Tim? Have you heard of wine?

[Chris Ryan]

Another great Vicki.

[Mallory Rubin]

Another great Vicki was on a heater. Her batting average like 900.

[Chris Ryan]

Sensational.

[Mallory Rubin]

And once again, if you're going nitpicks, another nitpick is the family's just the dad is acting deranged at this point and none of the family's like, hey, mom, what's going on with dad? Yeah, Dad's fucking crazy.

[Chris Ryan]

Tried last week.

[Mallory Rubin]

He got rid of all of our phones. He's been in a drug stupor for five days. And he just made his peanut collapse and then knocked the glass out of my hand before I finished it. And now he's going to bed.

[Bill Simmons]

I think, though, I was thinking about that. And I think a problem of this is that they've known him his whole life.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

And so he's been acting weird for like four days, but he's been acting weird the entire time we've known him. Do you know what I mean? And so it's just like, they're like, okay, dad's having a weird week, but it's four days in the span of the decades that they've known him, you know?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, that makes sense. I've definitely been in funks around my family. Not drug funks where I've tried to.

[Bill Simmons]

Murder everybody and not force feeding them pina coladas.

[Chris Ryan]

Not just letting the bathrobe open in the middle of.

[Mallory Rubin]

No, not drop.

[Bill Simmons]

Common area.

[Mallory Rubin]

My prosthetic. So Locky makes his own protein drink out of dirty blender. Another nitpick. Yeah, I mean, that's disgusting.

[Chris Ryan]

In college you wouldn't do that.

[Mallory Rubin]

You at least rinse it out. It's disgusting.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's. That was my.

[Bill Simmons]

My take on that. He sticks his little. Little snout in there and he sniffs it. My take was he was like, oh, I get a little. A little bit of pina colada in my. You know, dad said I couldn't have it, but I stuck me with a cook. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Now I get a sip. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, then we get the death scene. We get drops. We get men waiting on top of the water looking down.

[Bill Simmons]

Looked like monks to me.

[Chris Ryan]

Sure did.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

You think that's what you see when you die? I always thought if you're going to hell, you see the shadows. Like in Ghost. When the guy. That's what I. That's what I think happens with hell. Maybe this is heaven. You look up and there's just monks and there's just mon in a circle around you. I mean, in Mallory's case, it would be Cal Ripken Jr. Lamar Jackson. No.

[Chris Ryan]

Manny Machado Henderson. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Who is it for? Bill Harrison. Harrison Ford.

[Chris Ryan]

That would be great. Tom Brady.

[Mallory Rubin]

Who be witness. Harrison Ford. Yeah, like specific haircut Harrison Ford.

[Chris Ryan]

No one's ever looked better than. Than Harrison Ford. And Witness, specifically in the Sam Cooke scene in the barn, when he looks over the roof of the car. That's his peak. That's peak.

[Mallory Rubin]

So you're going to miss this on the Witness rewatchables because you're leaving.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wow. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Emotional blackmail.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Mallory Rubin]

Cruel. That's what happens when you don't live here. You miss the Witness rewatchables.

[Chris Ryan]

Brutal.

[Bill Simmons]

If only Mallory has ever had that conversation with me about that one Harrison Ford scene 20 million times. Wait, no. Yeah. Who are Bill's four people waiting for Bill on the other side of the pool?

[Mallory Rubin]

I'd like to think it would be family members.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, that was what was interesting about Lockie not seeing his family and seeing them because he has made that choice. Like I think when he told Piper last week, hey, I just had this thought, what if I stayed? It's this like panic processing in real time. What he has had to acknowledge about himself, he has that says to her, like, I don't want to give in to my dark shit. Like, I don't want to make things worse. And then in this episode, you know, the next morning, he's still like, this is what I think I should do. And does actually seem to feel the pull and to feel the draw in a way that is actually maybe more sincere than what Piper ultimately Felt like for him to see. Okay, this could have been maybe my awakening. This could have been maybe my salvation. And I'm about to lose it and lose everything else, too. And not to see his family. Not to see Chat. Will you pick you and see your duke. Like it was none of the stuff that they spent all season arguing about and pulling over him.

[Bill Simmons]

A brotherly tug. Yep, Got it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I wrote down. Wait, Locky isn't dead. He really jerked us around.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, gets nice, nice, nice.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought he wasn't going to acknowledge the jerk off humor, but he was.

[Bill Simmons]

Just waiting because he had his own jerk joke when. When he does before competing jerk jokes.

[Chris Ryan]

Love it. I'll miss this.

[Bill Simmons]

When he. Before he sees the monks, he's sort of blinking in his long non. Death scene. He does see all of them in the blinks of his eyes. He's dying. Yeah. Drops off the ocean, drives off the ocean. Also, people have been, in terms of people predicting who is going to die in the opening credits. Lachlan is floating in the water. So a lot of people thought Lachlan might die. And so we do get this extended floating in the water sequence, but it turns out it's the water of your mind.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, they. The we as we also talked about in terms of the opening credits, the very worrying zoom in, like camera jump. And zoom in on. On Amy Lou's name and the bloodied broken animal carcass.

[Bill Simmons]

Yep.

[Mallory Rubin]

So you know what else I really liked about the. This whole, like, with the. What do you call it? The forest. What it. What's out, what's outside? The jungle. The wildlife. The pseudo jungle.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, the jungle.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I liked when the monkeys got all excited during the. When the gunshots, when they started jumping around, I was like, oh, my God.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Where are we going with the monkeys?

[Chris Ryan]

None of them actually pulled a trigger, though. Thoughts, feelings. Are you in an active state of mourning?

[Bill Simmons]

Are we all monkeys inherently? Well, yeah, the monkey. Monkey mind.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Got primal for a second.

[Bill Simmons]

Um, what was with. They were like, fumigating.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But never, you know, guy talks like, what's going on? They're like, the Hollingers are back. I was like, no, but what's going on with the very aesthetic smoke that you're putting all around the place? Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

That was an odd kind of transition shot of Google doom.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, we're done with the rat lift, so any last thoughts before we move to the fancies?

[Bill Simmons]

Um, I. I don't have a lot.

[Mallory Rubin]

Of hope for them going forward. I think they're going broke and they don't seem like they're a strong family.

[Chris Ryan]

Who is best equipped, though, to deal with what? The reckoning that presumably now awaits Saxon. Fucking Saxon. Armed with his literature. Armed and the thing that is literature.

[Mallory Rubin]

He read one book, he has a soulmate, is already dead.

[Chris Ryan]

She threw a whole library into his lap. God damn it. Now, I think it is actually. This is one of my favorite parts of the season. Unsurprisingly, I've been team Saxon from day one. Great performance, interesting character. We love a character on an arc. The fact that Chelsea was not able in those final moments. This is not her fault. To be clear, this is Rick's. The tragedy of it, right, that he couldn't break the karmic cycle. Like Amrita had pled with him in begs, like Chelsea saying, stop thinking about the love you've lost. Think about the love that's right in front of you. I'm paraphrasing.

[Mallory Rubin]

Does Adam say that to you?

[Chris Ryan]

Adam, happy birthday. I'm sorry that I'm at work instead of with you celebrating happy birthday.

[Mallory Rubin]

See that? There it is. That is so sweet.

[Chris Ryan]

You're a great one. The fact that Rick was like, I'm gonna go do this anyway. But Saxon's life has actually been changed by just spending one week with Jesse. I choose to believe that it has actually been changed.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think he was more changed by the jerk off night.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Also, I think that was where you really look in the mirror and you go, where?

[Bill Simmons]

This is a village. To raising a marriage.

[Mallory Rubin]

Where's my life going? What happened?

[Chris Ryan]

People. A lot of people impact you in your life. Joe informed us about the similarities to the. The journey of the Buddha last episode, a little High Sparrow coded as well.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

You know, a night of debauchery and then what? Will Saxon ever put a pair of sneakers on again? Who can say? I'm rooting for that guy. That's all I know.

[Mallory Rubin]

So going forward, Rat lives get divorced, Tim's disgraced.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Saxon probably tries to get his own startup going, which will be tough with the way the stock market's going this week. Good luck, Tim. Anyway, Piper joins the nonprofit Lockie comes back to Thailand. Yeah, he comes back.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, he has no money for college, so, yeah, he comes back.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's just gonna live there.

[Bill Simmons]

At the very least, a gap year, probably. What money is he using to get on the flight to Thailand?

[Mallory Rubin]

That's true. Probably saving up some bonds that he got for birthdays. The fancies we can rip through quick. Everything's fine again. We're back to just being super phony with one another.

[Bill Simmons]

Disappointing to me, I think.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. I don't. It felt like an hour and a half long show, but it felt like there was one good scene missing with them.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I liked that Jacqueline. When Jacqueline goes to wake Laurie up and she says, I want to be your friend, I thought that was a really good moment. I would have loved just, like, a little. Like, she talks about, people judge me for my superficial flaws. You judge me for my profoundly deep flaws. I thought that was good, but I just wanted just a little bit more from Jacqueline.

[Mallory Rubin]

She's like, good news. I'm in the Pit, season two. I'm playing internist. I joined in episode eight.

[Chris Ryan]

I can't wait to start watching the Pit. I know you're really feeling like I'm missing out.

[Bill Simmons]

You're. Have a great time.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm excited. I. I agree with both of you about this plotline and the storyline overall. I certainly think that given the level that the tension reached last episode, it felt like we were okay. We could have stood to have one or two more moments, but I was genuinely. I'm a sucker, maybe, but I was, like, really moved by what Laurie had to say.

[Mallory Rubin]

I was gonna say I thought that was the best scene in the show.

[Bill Simmons]

When she said the thing about time.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought this was lovely.

[Chris Ryan]

And, like, as you get older, you have to justify your life and your choices. And when I'm with you guys, it's just life transparent what my choices were. And I was thinking back to the way that, like, at the beginning of the season, that, like, you know, when I'm with you guys, it's like looking in a mirror and there's the blonde blob aspect to it all, the similarities, the shared origin, and then the different branches off of that, like, tree trunk. But when you're looking in a mirror and you're with other people and they remind you of that, it's like you also are. What are you doing? You're seeing yourself, right? You're seeing the way that the choices they've made and the places they've gone in life remind you of your own limitations, shortcomings, failings. And I thought this was just such a. Like, when we talk about more broadly over the episode in the season, what are the takeaways? What are the lessons? What is, like, the message about life or relationships or family or desire? You chase pleasure, you find pain, etc. This one was so, like, real, I thought, you know, especially inside of that friend dynamic where the Bickering and the fighting and the tearing each other down. I think there's something there with, like, women are pitted against each other in friendships or professional relationships, and they're, like, positioned by society to be inclined to tear each other down and being competitive with each other. And so, like, for just a moment, rise above that and say, like, I don't know, you guys remind me that, like, I'm still here. I thought was really lovely. I think part of it is depressing that, like, we talked about last week, the possibility. What's more depressing if they, like, fracture or they don't, actually. But there was something I thought really comforting about the idea that you can, like, work your way back to something that feels like a nucleus in your. In your past.

[Bill Simmons]

I liked them coming back together, and I mentioned this last week when I was like, what do I want them from the finale? I wanted them to come back together in the way that I always wanted the succession kids to hug. Like, this is what I always want, but I don't know that I feel it was 1 million percent earned.

[Chris Ryan]

Exactly.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Lori's epiphany that she got maybe when her pants were falling down and she was trying to crawl out of.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought it was when she was watching them take selfies. I mean, because she's watching from afar when they're in the pool and she's getting sad watching it. I thought she was getting sad because she was a part of the group, but I think she was getting sad because she was like, oh, this is like, we were doing whatever version of this when we were 12.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's all part of it, but I think she isn't in a place to absorb that. If she doesn't have an adventure with Alexi the night before. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

If she's not asked for $10,000 to save somebody's mother.

[Bill Simmons]

I love that they're like, none of them were looking at Valentin when he comes to the table in that last scene, the last dinner scene. Like, there's like, it's not a bad guy, dude. Like, we're trying to connect here. And I think that I thought the Laurie. Mike White writing that speech for Laurie really felt like something that Mike White himself had worked out for himself in terms of. She's like, I tried work as my religion. I tried a romantic relationship as my religion. Being a mother, parenthood didn't really work out for me. But me just being here, guess what? I'm still here.

[Chris Ryan]

Totally.

[Bill Simmons]

In the words of Stephen Sondheim, like, she's like, I'm still here and that counts or something.

[Mallory Rubin]

She says time gives it meaning.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

This is the old Michael Mann theme in all the Michael Mann movies. Our guy from the rewatch list.

[Bill Simmons]

I love that you both managed to.

[Chris Ryan]

Make that about Sondheim and Michael Mann.

[Bill Simmons]

Barry on Brand that's waiting for us on the other side of the pool. Sondheim for me. Michael Mann's for Bill.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, Michael Mann was a big time is luck. That's what he would always say in his movies about how much luck you need just to keep existing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

There's something here, too, about. Because she's able to kind of find that contentment embraced. Just like the reality of life. It feels like a lesson learned in the face of hard truths. They all said really terrible things to each other. We talk about this a lot when we're covering stuff. Sometimes you have to work through something really deeply unpleasant and see if you can make it to the other side. I think we felt it certainly more with Laurie than with Jacqueline and Kate, but they all had to receive that. The thing that Laurie heard was like, well, the thing you're disappointed about always changes, but the pattern is you're always disappointed. And there was, like, a lot of sorrow behind what she said here, but there was, like, a certain level of peace that felt for her maybe quite new.

[Bill Simmons]

And I. And I love that for her. And I. And I think that that's important for her to work through internally. I still would like for Jacqueline and Kate on their journey to come out the other side of this vacation being like, and you, Laurie, have a beautiful something, something. Fill in the blank something. I don't care what you say. Sense of humor, personality.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't care what it is, you.

[Mallory Rubin]

Know, what her revenge is going to be. When Carrie Coon's accepting the Emmy for best supporting actress in drama.

[Bill Simmons]

We just gave it to Parker Posey. How many Emmys are we handing out?

[Mallory Rubin]

God, they'll put Parker Posey in the. In the lead.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, someone wrote in to let us know that they've never put a White Lotus actor in the lead Emmy category. They're all always in supporting. I don't know if you're right.

[Mallory Rubin]

So if you went Carrie Cohn versus Parker Posey, who do we have if.

[Bill Simmons]

Versus probably Amy Lou is probably also different vibes. Yeah. If it's me, I'm giving it to Parker Posey for this season.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm torn. I. Every time I try to power rank my favorite performances, I'm like, genuinely thought.

[Mallory Rubin]

Patrick Schwarzenegger Was string pick.

[Chris Ryan]

Amy Lou was great. No, Carrie Coon was great. Parker Posey was great. I refuse. I don't have to pick because I don't vote.

[Mallory Rubin]

I pick Carrie Coon.

[Bill Simmons]

Great.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought I'm picking Emmy Louis.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought she was awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

Carrie's incredible and I think Carrie should have a heap of Emmys. But I think in in this season, I've seen Carrie do incredible things in the leftovers in Fargo. I don't watch the gilded age, but.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, you're missing out.

[Mallory Rubin]

So you're not surprised.

[Chris Ryan]

You weren't surprised by the goal is crushing it.

[Bill Simmons]

I think of like what I want from a that Jennifer Coolidge white Lotus performance is Parker Posey.

[Chris Ryan]

I think Parker Posey is most likely certainly to win because of that precedent. It feels that I think Amy Lou. I'm going Amy Lou. I'm casting my vote for Amy.

[Mallory Rubin]

Officially, we ended with a drunk three lady hug with our fancies.

[Chris Ryan]

A lot of cuddling.

[Mallory Rubin]

They took the boat back so that Jacqueline could officially find out her husband has filed for a separation because he's banging somebody on the set.

[Chris Ryan]

They're addicted to each other and hopefully.

[Mallory Rubin]

The pit will work out great for her.

[Bill Simmons]

She deserves to be on The Pit Season 2. And maybe Laurie and her kid can come out and like, live with Jacqueline for a little while. If Jacqueline's kicking hairs.

[Chris Ryan]

I heard she throws furniture, but maybe.

[Bill Simmons]

She won't in la.

[Mallory Rubin]

I just hope Laurie didn't catch anything from Alexi. I can't say he was. He didn't seem like the cleanest guy.

[Chris Ryan]

Remember the dick slap? That was great.

[Bill Simmons]

The Russians are fine. Okay. The Russians are fine.

[Mallory Rubin]

They seem like they let a fast. The last time we see them in this episode, they're partying with a new group.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Co. Non alcoholic brews. The other day it was golfing with some of the guys. They're like, hey, you want anything? I was like, I'm an adult. I got stuff to do tonight. I'm not doing one of these, like semi retired deals. 18 holes and see how it goes. Luckily, Athletic Brewing Company had reached out to me. They sent me a bunch of stuff, including the Irish Red or the Run Wild ipa and my personal favorite, Upside Dawn. A nice little golden goes well with a few holes of golf this March. Don't miss the sports action with athletic. Head to athleticbrewing.com ringer to find it near you or shop online. That's athleticbrewing.com R I N G E R to find Award winning Athletic NA Brews near you Athletic Brewing Company Fit for all times near beer.

[Mallory Rubin]

This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. It's starting to look like spring. And spring starts with savings at the Home Depot. There are savings for every project, whether you're starting with a queen slate with convenient cordless power like a new pressure washer or leaf blower, or starting to love the art again with colorful flowers and fresh mulch. Start your spring with early savings at the Home Depot. Shop [e-mail] the new KFC dunk it bucket with juicy original recipe tenders, new mashed potato poppers, crispy fries, plus three sauces that fit right on top of the lid so you can dunk anywhere. You can dunk at the game. Dunk while security points to the no outside food sign and dunk as 20,000.

[Bill Simmons]

People watch you and your Dunk it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Bucket get removed from the stadium.

[Bill Simmons]

Dunk almost anywhere with the new $7.

[Mallory Rubin]

KFC Dunkin Bucket or get the double Dunkin Bucket for 25. Prices and participation vary while supplies last. Taxes, tips and fees, extra Guy talk and Mook, we can go through this quickly.

[Bill Simmons]

Mook is like maybe my least favorite character now.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just fell apart in sections. She sucks.

[Bill Simmons]

Absolutely.

[Mallory Rubin]

Although maybe that was the point of Mook.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I guess.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think I would have been more interested in this whole plotline if Gytok was a more interesting actor. And I just felt like he had two moves and it was pretty underwritten for what it was. And it was a lot of time spent just so he could shoot Rick at the end. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, this is the point. I think that it goes back to what we were talking about last week in terms of they had only so much story and too many episodes. Yeah. I think this is a good storyline. Like there's this winsome young couple and we're sort of rooting for them. And then she's just sort of like.

[Mallory Rubin]

Were you rooting for them, though? Cause I wasn't.

[Bill Simmons]

For a time in the middle, I was.

[Mallory Rubin]

By the last three episodes I was not.

[Bill Simmons]

No. Certainly not once it was clear that she was like, but you need to be ambitious and violent. And he's like, but my religion and hot take.

[Mallory Rubin]

Mook knows what she likes.

[Chris Ryan]

That's. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And that's great. But what I want for him is to just be like, okay, then you are not for me.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

It's not meant to be.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not. I will.

[Mallory Rubin]

She's pretty good looking, beautiful. She was trying to talk Herself.

[Bill Simmons]

Gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous. But now he's, like, got the girl and a great set of sunglasses. And the Hollingers need new bodyguards because both of their bodyguards.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, well, we have. Valentin goes to him at some point and says, I know you know, if you say something, you're killing me. And then that storyline's just done. We've allowed them to rob the resort and we're never going to talk about it again.

[Chris Ryan]

That's part of Gaitox sacrificing what he genuinely believes to be right, to be good, to be decent. The code that he wanted to live his life by and hoped that he could to get the things that he desires. So desire comes in many forms. All of the characters have a version of this guy. Talk desires more than one thing. He desires Mook. He desires to not be repulsed by the decisions that he's made. But those two desires are in conflict with each other. And so he makes the choice. And, like, the moment of, you know, I'm down on my knee and I have the gun out and Sita La is saying, kill him. Shoot him, Sita La. I mean, shoot him. She was shoot him clear in her directive, that's for sure. But, like, this was part of a theme in the episode, too, of just, like, one degree away from making a better choice, right? Because he tells Mook he wants to quit, and she's like, once again, I thought you were a different kind of person. I thought you were going to do a different thing. He flat out tells P. Leck, I would. I'm not the right guy for this. Like, this is not for me. And he's like, why don't you think about it? Gytok does try to extract himself from a circumstance that he knows is not right for him, and then he can't, and he gets subsumed by it.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's telling Mallory, host binge mode, same thing. She's like, I'm not the right girl for this. I'm saying, no, it's in you, Mallory. And it was podcasting is in you.

[Bill Simmons]

And you just put on those car.

[Mallory Rubin]

Embrace your beast.

[Bill Simmons]

No, totally to your point, Mallory. There's a bunch of moments inside of this episode where someone almost makes the right decision, right? Rick almost makes the right decision. Maybe if Chelsea had just stayed and eaten her donut, that was the right decision for her.

[Mallory Rubin]

You know, listen, she only dropped 37 hints in the first seven episodes that something horrible is gonna happen. Let's move to them. I have Rick, Frank and Chelsea as my next category. We only see Frank Quick leopard print banana hammock. Having a great time.

[Chris Ryan]

Incredibly memorable.

[Mallory Rubin]

Pulls the banana hammocks out. More girls coming forward. Enough. Two more in the elevator. Sensational stuff. Just. Our guy just.

[Chris Ryan]

Just did go back to the monastery just like he said he would. At the end, we see him returning to a life of.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think he knows the. Frank is the Rick Elizabeth.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know. Travels in this. In this story is deeply.

[Mallory Rubin]

You probably read in the Bangkok Herald that Jim Hollinger has been shot to death.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you think Frank reads the.

[Mallory Rubin]

Probably not.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, Sitala should be after him, right? He was in on the con Citala made it out alive, so. And she was Steve Frank should be relocating.

[Bill Simmons]

So you're saying White Lotus Season 4, Guy Talk and the hunt for Frank.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think that's actually an interesting question? Do you think we will have any character from the prior seasons make it into season four like we have in every other season?

[Bill Simmons]

Fabian didn't die, right. He just fell in the water.

[Chris Ryan]

I was like, oh, shit, Fabian's gonna, like, hit his head and Dr.

[Bill Simmons]

Round.

[Chris Ryan]

We're going to do with Tanya again. But then he stood up.

[Mallory Rubin]

So the only person who's been in every season is Greg. Gary.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Tanya was in two, Belinda's in two. Greg Gary.

[Mallory Rubin]

Greg G's having a great life. Cut off the 5 million in Belinda. Now he's just back trying to have his lady try to have sex with somebody while he watches and eventually breaks in.

[Chris Ryan]

Chloe was actively recruiting candidates.

[Bill Simmons]

Absolutely. So his kink is real and it's happening. You know? You know whose stock is majorly on the rise for this episode? Zion.

[Mallory Rubin]

Zion was good. He was very funny.

[Bill Simmons]

Really good Zion episode.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wait, all right, so we got Rick, Frank, Chelsea. Last dinner. Chelsea says they're gonna be together forever. Whatever happens to you happens to me. Ba.

[Bill Simmons]

Ba.

[Chris Ryan]

Boring.

[Bill Simmons]

That's when. Okay, right before the episode started, we had sort of, as a group, said Chelsea dies for Rick was our sort of like, fear prediction. When she says, whatever happens to you happens to me. I feel like all three of us in that theater were like, we know.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, you could see it coming.

[Bill Simmons]

Terrible.

[Chris Ryan]

And also when she said the episode name. Yeah, because I'm more fati. Do you know what that means? You have to embrace your fate. Good or bad. What will be, will be.

[Mallory Rubin]

I was like, yeah, they're pouring it on. So Rick's at breakfast. Didn't think he'd see the Hollingers. They only owned the hotel and he already broke into their house. Yeah, I remember your mother. I knew she was a drunk and a slut. Didn't think she was a liar too. Those are trigger words for our guy Rick.

[Chris Ryan]

But he's talking about mix in. By the way, I'm your dad.

[Mallory Rubin]

By the way, he says your father was no saint. You didn't miss out on much, and that's the fucking truth.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a great moment because he's talking about himself.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

I did not catch that when he said it, did you?

[Bill Simmons]

I wasn't sure at the end if they were gonna go that way.

[Mallory Rubin]

But when he said that sentence, did you think he was talking about himself? Because I did not.

[Bill Simmons]

I was genuinely 5050 on it also.

[Chris Ryan]

50 50. I think watching the season through the. Oh, they are doing the Obi Wan through. From a certain point of view. Vader, Anakin thing, it still felt like it was in play even there.

[Mallory Rubin]

Obi Toppin.

[Bill Simmons]

It's Star Wars.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, Star Wars.

[Chris Ryan]

Got it.

[Mallory Rubin]

Got it.

[Chris Ryan]

Very tough.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's tough. Well, Rick's a dumbass.

[Bill Simmons]

I have to say. Rick is quite stupid.

[Mallory Rubin]

He's really dumb.

[Bill Simmons]

If they're gonna do the Vader, you know who Darth Vader is.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm just doing this. Tortuous Sopranos.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you know who Darth Vader is?

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm aware of your theater and you've.

[Bill Simmons]

Heard the line, I'm your father, right?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, Yeah, I was in the theater for it.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that as good as spoiler Sita Law being like, he's your father.

[Chris Ryan]

He told me. Yeah, yeah. Equally meaningful and memorable.

[Bill Simmons]

Does that hit just as hard?

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think they will be talking about that in 50 years still?

[Bill Simmons]

For sure, he's your father. He told me on the flight over here.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, so now that we know what happens, it's hard to forget what it was like when it was actually watched. It was pretty exciting when they're taking the photo and Rick sitting on the bench and trying to figure out how we were going to have a conflict here. Because he didn't have his gun. Because he got rid of the gun.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh.

[Mallory Rubin]

And then I. Then in my head, this is. This one I did get right. I was like, oh, he could easily just grab the gun from the old man because he showed him.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I think that the. We can tell why Rick is such a dipshit. He inherited that from his very stupid father. I. The Rick storyline fell the flattest, I think for me, of. Of everything. I think part of that is we have to be honest that we just brought a lot of expectations to it. Because Goggins is a shared favorite. We did. Undeniably correct. But it just. In terms of only looking at it inside the vacuum of the season, I thought Chelsea was. I really loved spending time with her as a character, and I thought Rick was interesting. My favorite Rick moment in this finale is when he seeks out Amrita. Like, that moment where he's like, I actually know that I need this, and I need someone to help pull me out of this. I'm inclined to say, like, my identity. My identity is nothing. Like, nothing comes from nothing. And that he had a moment still, even after the happy return and the embrace with Chelsea and the hug. Okay, I'm not gonna, like, give up on this yet. That I liked every. All of the actual stuff with Rick and Jim Hollinger was just, like, a real letdown, though.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I don't know if they thought. If they thought we forgot about Star wars and that that was gonna be, like, a big twist for us at the end of this episode or something like that. I don't know. But, like, yeah, that didn't really.

[Mallory Rubin]

Can we give special shout out to Jim Hollinger's bodyguards? The worst bodyguards in the history of hbo.

[Bill Simmons]

They just wander around, Just wandering around.

[Mallory Rubin]

Just like, let's leave him alone. How about stay here and all go look around? Like, just. They're just leaving him.

[Chris Ryan]

These had the nerve to mock guy talk all season. Called. Called him a pussy, called him a turkey.

[Bill Simmons]

They went out, sad.

[Chris Ryan]

Jim Hollinger in his own home, got pushed down in a chair while they sat outside for a smoke break.

[Mallory Rubin]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

And then got gunned down at his own hotel.

[Bill Simmons]

I got killed, Rick. Pretty good shot.

[Chris Ryan]

Sharpshooter.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

So from what we know from that gunshot scene.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Rick's shot some people.

[Bill Simmons]

I believe it. Yeah, I believe it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think there's some.

[Bill Simmons]

When he's like, I didn't kill anyone. The underlying thing was like, when he.

[Chris Ryan]

Today.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

He took him.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like, how'd it go? Didn't kill anyone this time.

[Mallory Rubin]

I also was unsatisfied with the Rick ending, but I did really like the end shot of his face in the water and how. However they shot that her down and.

[Bill Simmons]

Him facing up.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought, I don't know. That worked for me.

[Chris Ryan]

There was the line that Chelsea had at the beginning of the season where she said to him, this is just like you to be the victim of your own decisions. Right. And was kind of like one of the many attempts to coax him forward. Indeed. To coax him forward. And try to teach him something about himself. And he was very resistant. And then that, of course, is the end point. I think, again to your note about the cynical nature of the story, not just this season, but across seasons, it's like, well, that's a fucking bummer, right? Like, that we watch this character and we spend all season one. And that's part of the point. I do think that's very interesting, actually. But we spend all season wondering, can Rick pull himself out of this? Can he embrace this lesson of breaking the karmic cycle, that you don't have to be subsumed by the grief of your, like, past? And then he can't. And it's not only at the expense of his own life. It's like the person that he actually does care about but didn't know how to properly love is washed away by that too. Like, at the end of the day, of all the people in the show, who were the. Who were the. Like, the person in the tsunami video that Locky showed, like, he didn't even try to leave. He just stood there. That's Rick more than anyone else. Like, at the end when it all came down to it and that wave came crashing in, like, he just stood there and let it wash him away. And that is like. Like really bleak as a message.

[Bill Simmons]

But it seems to me a bit consistent across totally White Lotus in terms of, like, when we think about Armand in season one.

[Chris Ryan]

Definitely.

[Bill Simmons]

Definitely. Just like a victim of his own actions. And Tanya, you know, poor Tanya, that. That operatic. The way in which Mike White thought of Tanya as a sort of doomed operatic figure. Rick is. Rick and Chelsea are definitely like these doomed lover figures at the end of the day.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. So we all like to think about.

[Mallory Rubin]

What feedback from my mom, my. My wife.

[Chris Ryan]

Is it about the wine? Is it about the pina coladas?

[Mallory Rubin]

My mom says other than the three girlfriend storyline, really hated White Lotus and especially the finale. That was her review.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Mallory Rubin]

My wife said, I meant to tell you that I saw this thing on Instagram today where Amy Lou where was wearing a Stay Gold charm from the poem and the Outsiders. And as we know, Johnny dies.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you know that one, Pony Boy? Yeah, that's been going around. There's also. There was also a shot of her. I think it was for the THR photo shoot where they just had Amy Lou, like, lying on the ground. Everyone's like, well, she dies. And then everyone was like, but other people are like, no, THR would not do a photo shoot of her looking like a dead body. If she was the actually one who dies. But yeah, she had the stakeholder.

[Chris Ryan]

So many people died. Stay gold.

[Bill Simmons]

Ponyboy pendant on.

[Mallory Rubin]

We forgot to mention, when Rick comes back and she's with Saxon and she runs over and she's so excited to see Rick. Did your heart break a little bit for Saxon? It did, didn't it? Deep down? Yes, it did. You felt it a little for Saxon.

[Chris Ryan]

But here's in his eyes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, tough moment. I know. Ma was. I heard Ma sniffling in the. Behind me. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I wasn't like, I was. Actually, I was. More than anything, I was proud of him because he handled it, like, pretty well.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I feel like Saxon, Episode one. Saxon would have done something really douchey, you know, and, like, called her a slut or something like, you know what I mean? Like, called her something shitty. But he just sort of, like, took the loss on the chin. I was proud of it.

[Mallory Rubin]

He just needed to be knocked down.

[Chris Ryan]

A couple pegs and jerked off by his friend.

[Mallory Rubin]

Jerked off by his friend Belinda.

[Bill Simmons]

And Greg Gary does that.

[Mallory Rubin]

What he said Zion wanted to negotiate. Zion wanted to negotiate was probably the highlight of this episode.

[Chris Ryan]

What's going to happen to the university Business, baby. University of Hawaii MBA applications going way up after this.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. He handled a nice.

[Bill Simmons]

We were so proud when they were like. She was like, this isn't enough. We'll get asked for more. And all of us were like. That's what we were saying.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

And we were seeing. You were saying a million minimum, and they went 5 million.

[Mallory Rubin]

She played opposite with the storming out.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I love the argument of, like, it's like a. A percent of what you inherited. That has to be worth it for. Very well argued.

[Mallory Rubin]

We're team Gary. This is just 1%.

[Bill Simmons]

Great. But honestly, what. But what. What guarantees does Greg Gary have that they won't come back?

[Chris Ryan]

None. Are they safe? Who can say? I mean, they get riding off into the, you know, into the sunrise, like, final shot there. So I guess it's a happy ending for them, but again, at the expense of their soul and principles. I mean, not Zion's soul and principles, but Belinda's. Certainly Belinda becoming Tanya.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

It's right. Like I, I. Belinda was left to, like, hold my dream broken in my hands because Tanya promised me this thing that then she took away, which is what she just did to Pornchide.

[Bill Simmons]

I want to push back on that a little bit.

[Chris Ryan]

It's because one good thing happened.

[Bill Simmons]

No, no, no.

[Chris Ryan]

Tanya meets Greg, Belinda gets the money, and it's like, peace Out.

[Bill Simmons]

I want to push back a little bit. Belinda was never like, let's open a spa together. It's my idea.

[Chris Ryan]

Let's do it.

[Bill Simmons]

He floated and she's like, maybe she was quite distracted. She was working, you know, she was just sort of like, huh, that's interesting. She wasn't like, let' I'll bankroll it. It's a different.

[Chris Ryan]

He never printed up a business plan like she did. Like, it's. I definitely agree with you that it was not to that extent, but still, the, like, something has happened in my life. The way she keeps saying, like, change in circumstance. Well, that's what happened to Tanya too, right? She met Greg, she got distracted. Something was bringing her pleasure, and so she didn't care anymore about this other person.

[Bill Simmons]

But I think she does care. She's so much more conflicted than Tanya was. Tanya just like, threw Belinda away. And. And. And Belinda on the boat is like, I've given up this beautiful man. Beautiful man.

[Chris Ryan]

But why not invite him with her? Then I have a single conversation with him about it. Other she does say, like, well, maybe, you know, maybe in the future.

[Bill Simmons]

But here's what I'll say about Belinda. Melinda's like, I want to leave and not be near. And I would say, Greg Gary, take notes. Belinda's like, I want to be hard to find. And Greg Gary's like, I barely changed my name. I'm at another. Exactly. So Belinda's like, let's get lost. And in a few months, I will send a message to Pornchide to come join us.

[Chris Ryan]

I like that. Maybe they will be the connective tissue in season four. Maybe they will be running a spa wherever the next season is set. That would be nice.

[Bill Simmons]

No, don't be anywhere near a white lotus. Stay safe.

[Mallory Rubin]

14,000 a night for Greg Gary's place, right?

[Chris Ryan]

It ranges. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Looked.

[Chris Ryan]

Looked a little further into the listing. It did look like there were some nights of the year where I was in the 5000 range per night. You get a few, like, during monsoon season, possibly.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, great. Sounds great. Sounds great. Let's go. I floated that we should have recorded this podcast from there. And you were like, no, it would.

[Mallory Rubin]

Take him like 27 hours to get there. I liked, can I just be rich for five minutes? It was funny. Anyway, Belinda, now she's earlier the season.

[Bill Simmons]

She can, like, can one fucking thing go my way. So you know what? Yeah, I'm sad for her that she morally compromised herself.

[Chris Ryan]

Same.

[Bill Simmons]

But I'm glad for her that she got her bag also.

[Chris Ryan]

Same. So that Dissonance is kind of the point of the show, which I enjoy, I really do.

[Mallory Rubin]

We end with the families on the. On the Ratliff family's on the boat.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Vicky gets the phones. Doesn't seem like they have any idea. There was a shootout. And apparently Lakin didn't have to go to the hospital. And let's go back and, hey, there's going to be some stuff that happens. Drops of water bouncing the ocean. The Ratliffs are done. The three fancies are a little shaken on the boat.

[Bill Simmons]

Bill, would you like to share with the audience what you shouted at Tim Ratliff when he was looking at the ocean on the side of the boat?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, I thought it was our last chance for him to have him kill himself.

[Chris Ryan]

Were you proud of him at all that after all of that, he was like, fam, Things are about to change.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought he was a terrible character. We saw Greg Gary having a cocktail with a horny look on his face as Chloe, yet another transactional person in season three, scouting a new guy. We saw the Russians partying. We saw Frank praying. Saw guy talk. Hugging Mook.

[Chris Ryan]

Yep. And then driving Citela and then Belinda.

[Mallory Rubin]

Waving as the new Tanya. And that was season three. MVP of season three. Joanna. Who do you have, man?

[Bill Simmons]

Park Posey.

[Chris Ryan]

Patrick Schwarzenegger. Genuinely. I thought he was the breakout star of the season.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I do, like, a top three?

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah, do gold, silver, bronze.

[Bill Simmons]

Parker Posey. But then in terms of, like, stock on the rise. Parker Posey cementing what we always knew that she was great at. Right. For a new generation, discovering Parker Posey and all the things that she can do. Yeah, yeah. Patrick Schwarzenegger and Amy Lou as, like, breakout stars on the show.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, definitely. What about you? You have another candidate?

[Mallory Rubin]

Chelsea one.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, Sam Rockwell, obviously.

[Mallory Rubin]

Oh, does he count? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, shot his Oscar. I don't know like he did. You know, I think it's four.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's almost four. Amy Lou Schwarzenegger, Carrie Coon, Parker Posey, and then Rockwell as the wild card. I thought those. I thought those were the five that came out the best.

[Bill Simmons]

I wish we had had more time with Zion because.

[Chris Ryan]

Same. He's really good.

[Mallory Rubin]

This character is terrible to. I'm really interested in this guy. So season four.

[Bill Simmons]

I would love that for him.

[Mallory Rubin]

All right. Rank the seasons.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, easy for me.

[Bill Simmons]

I think a lot of people. Okay. I will just say, for me it goes. Number one is the best. Number two is number two, and number three is number three.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I think a lot of people like Number two, better. But I think number one, just because it came out of nowhere and just really blew me away is always gonna be my favorite.

[Chris Ryan]

Two is my favorite.

[Mallory Rubin]

I go two, one, three, two on three.

[Chris Ryan]

That's my order.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's like. Yeah. More broadly.

[Mallory Rubin]

But here's the thing, because people are probably critical and there's. We're used to the show now. We're used to the theme. There's dead bodies. So we're in the nitpick backlash. This is. This is it. This is the area.

[Bill Simmons]

True.

[Mallory Rubin]

I still loved hanging out with the show.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, I was a lot of nitpicks every week. Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I thought there was some stuff. I was surprised they did, but I enjoyed every episode. I was riveted tonight, and I'm sad it's gone.

[Bill Simmons]

If you could pick one character to carry over into season four, who are you picking?

[Mallory Rubin]

Saxon.

[Chris Ryan]

Saxon.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. Saxon goes ginger.

[Chris Ryan]

I want cold weather season.

[Mallory Rubin]

That was my next question. Where are we going?

[Chris Ryan]

It's got to be. It's time to do a cold weather season.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

It is. I really hope it's a ski lodge.

[Bill Simmons]

A newly enlightened Saxon is still going to the White Lotus. Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And at ski lodges, as I understand having never been to one, they have a lot of fireplaces. And he can. He can sit there by the fireplace and read his books as he continues on his journey of enlightenment.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, so we went to Hawaii, Thailand, Italy.

[Chris Ryan]

Yes.

[Mallory Rubin]

That makes me think it's like Australia somewhere that way.

[Bill Simmons]

First season four, I mean, I think they're looking for. They're looking for cold lotus, Are they not? Or have you?

[Mallory Rubin]

I have not heard anything about cold lotus. No, I haven't heard anything.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think they know. I thought I read that they, like, pitched they were thinking of doing Norway and then decided not to, but that they're maybe on the lookout for cold lotus.

[Chris Ryan]

Fjords.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, fjords, baby.

[Mallory Rubin]

Interesting.

[Chris Ryan]

Love it.

[Mallory Rubin]

I'm Sweden. Those crazy Swedes.

[Chris Ryan]

Now, can we just make a pledge and a pact right here that if it is in fact set in Sweden, we will actually do something on location because that is also the home of our parent company.

[Mallory Rubin]

It sounds great. Maybe it's something.

[Bill Simmons]

Was that a yes? Was that a yes? No. Do the Rick answer. That's the plan.

[Mallory Rubin]

That's the plan. Sounds good. I'm gonna make a drink. We'll see. Maybe the stock market plays into season four. The collapse of a world economy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Yeah, Maybe it's just. Isn't this a perfect time in Oklahoma City? Yeah. Grim. Tough.

[Mallory Rubin]

My final grade is A.

[Chris Ryan]

It was incredibly fun every week to.

[Bill Simmons]

Watch like B plus at the bottom. But like, I think probably A. I.

[Mallory Rubin]

Don'T think the show can have a basement that's lower than an A. It's just too well done.

[Bill Simmons]

The cast is incredible and like. And it's just. It's always fun when we're all watching this show together, you know, in the broader culture, for the memes, for everything else.

[Mallory Rubin]

Duke guy yesterday, the Duke T shirt meme, when Duke fell apart, the fact that just flooded the Internet. Even Joanna probably knew about it.

[Bill Simmons]

I did. I did see it. I did see his final four error yesterday. Right. Thanks.

[Chris Ryan]

Look at you.

[Mallory Rubin]

So my biggest npigs about the season overall, how they put it together.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

I just didn't think that Tim Ratliff. I thought it was like seven scenes too many and too grim. And I felt like they could have bounced around with it a little more versus like just put him in a catatonic funk for.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it's a six episode season.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, I'm gonna. I agree. And I'm gonna walk back my mid season like, oh. Because I do think the middle of the season was just incredible. And episodes five and six in particular, which was like, you know, the day night split which we got twice and we like. I looked into your eyes and I said, give us a 14 episode White Lotus season. And you said, we're different. And I think that like this is where I'm a glutton. I want more. It was so fun to get the day night split, but like this is where the distinction between a two month real world experience of consuming something and the premise of one week of these characters lives are actually not compatible At a certain point. If it's stretched over too many episodes, it's like, how much can happen to you in just a few days? So I'm back into like six or seven episodes is the sweet spot.

[Bill Simmons]

Welcome.

[Chris Ryan]

And what a six or seven episodes it will be with Saxon Ratliff on the ops.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Wait, so that's your dream scenario?

[Chris Ryan]

I like, actually am not prepared to cope with a life where I don't know what happened to him.

[Bill Simmons]

Like seriously, he's imprinted on Saxon. Is Saxon your answer to you want Saxon in season four?

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, we can't get Chelsea.

[Bill Simmons]

We sure can't.

[Chris Ryan]

Thanks for the reminder.

[Bill Simmons]

Sure can.

[Chris Ryan]

That was fucking sad.

[Bill Simmons]

Deeply sad. And like a real tough. I don't know. I'm glad that I have one more podcast episode to think about and record. Think about which Part the Chelsea of it all and just sort of that kind of story. What that means for a character like Chelsea. And you know what?

[Mallory Rubin]

Sometimes you have bad taste in men. That's it.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's. Here's. Here's where I will say I was wrong to be rooting for Rick and Chelsea. This whole time. I was really rooting for them. And you were like, chelsea can do better. Chelsea should have dumped Rick.

[Mallory Rubin]

But they dropped a lot of breadcrumbs that Rick was a loser and he was headed toward the wrong place.

[Bill Simmons]

I had Goggins goggles on.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, if only. Talk about a drop ball that we didn't come to the finale with Goggins goggles on. Yeah. That number of times that Chelsea talked about her bad feeling and how worried she was.

[Bill Simmons]

And these things come threes.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. All right. That's it for our little White Lotus season.

[Chris Ryan]

It was a blast.

[Bill Simmons]

This is my last la.

[Mallory Rubin]

So we know that Mike White has some big interview talking about. We got some intel. He's going, what was your intel? That there's an interview coming. We won't say who, but we'll have a lot of insight site.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Mallory Rubin]

Okay. Fair.

[Bill Simmons]

More to come.

[Mallory Rubin]

And then you will have a Deep Dive episode with Rob.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Mallory Rubin]

On Prestige tv.

[Bill Simmons]

Correct.

[Mallory Rubin]

Coming up. And when do we move into Last of Us range, which will be happening on House of Our Not On Prestige.

[Chris Ryan]

Premieres next Sunday night, one week from tonight.

[Bill Simmons]

So Monday.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. House of Our Deep dives on Mondays. The Midnight boys will have their instant reaction on Mondays. Button Mash is going to be doing a Gamer's Guide episode in the middle of the week. Joe and Rob are gonna be checking in on Prestige. I assume Chris and Andy will be partaking on the watch.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a full mushroom apocalypse.

[Mallory Rubin]

Everyone but me.

[Chris Ryan]

You're watching us at any time.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not too late for you, Bill.

[Mallory Rubin]

I don't remember which episode I just stopped watching, but it just got too bleak for me. I watched, like, five. I like the apocalypse.

[Chris Ryan]

Episode five was great.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that your. Is that your hottest take of the night? I don't like the apocalypse.

[Mallory Rubin]

Well, we're gonna find out this week when we have the financial apocalypse of the United States of America.

[Chris Ryan]

You're in a real tim Ra.

[Mallory Rubin]

I think tomorrow is going to be. Right now, one of my rules in life is when Jeff Chow is scared, I get scared.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Fair.

[Mallory Rubin]

Yeah. Anyway, good luck to America.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Mallory Rubin]

Thanks to the crew.

[Chris Ryan]

Thank you. Best. Best team there is.

[Mallory Rubin]

They showed up on a Sunday night to help us out and and I.

[Chris Ryan]

Had a good time watching Legends Justice Sales, John Richardson.

[Mallory Rubin]

It's a pleasure to do this with the two of you for. For eight weeks.

[Bill Simmons]

Genuine last.

[Mallory Rubin]

All right. Maybe there'll be another show down the road for us.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe.

[Mallory Rubin]

All right. Thanks for watching.