‘Widow’s Bay’ Episode 8: Stalking Season

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast — ‘Widow’s Bay’ Episode 8: “Stalking Season” Recap
Joanna Robinson & Rob Mahoney | June 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engaging and theory-packed episode, Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney break down episode 8 of Widow’s Bay, “Stalking Season.” They dive into the show’s latest horror homage, dissect fan theories about the “Secret Warren,” marvel at the episode’s sharply executed slasher set piece, and shout out both standout performances and ongoing mysteries. The hosts field listener emails, revisit running gags, and provide a lively, in-depth analysis packed with meta-commentary and TV genre love.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Episode Structure and Halloween Homage

• The episode is a full-tilt slasher pastiche, with nods to classics, especially the Halloween franchise.
• Director: Andrew DeYoung. Writer: Emma Ketchum, whose lack of previous credits sparks speculation and a call for listeners to reach out. (03:01)
• “This is, like, Michael Myers, but Widow’s Bay-style.” — Rob Mahoney (28:12)

Notable Segment:

• [27:22] The use of Enya’s “Caribbean Blue” and character Patricia’s Halloween-night solo scene sets the episode’s cinematic, slightly campy horror tone.

2. Character Arcs & Performances

• Patricia (Kato Flynn): Stands out as both slasher final girl and comedic presence. Her physical comedy, practical thinking (stun gun charging, gasoline scheme), and running style earn special praise. (37:43–38:27)
  • “She somehow manages to look like someone who is running for the first time. And that’s really all you want in this kind of horror setup.” — Rob Mahoney (38:20)
• Tom & Evan: Their father-son dynamic takes center stage as Tom’s secret-keeping is exposed. The pathos of Lauren’s death (whether mundane or supernatural) delivers one of the show’s emotional cores. (42:48–46:10)
  • “He’s so charming… and then it just undercuts and stabs you in the side with some bit of tragic backstory.” — Rob Mahoney on Matthew Rhys (44:49)
• The Boogeyman: Played by Aaron Armstrong (notably a Michael Myers stunt double), delivers an unnerving, near-parodic performance as the episode’s unstoppable threat. Trivia: Gas station sequence features David Armstrong, potentially his brother, for a standout stunt scene. (29:08–30:46)

Notable Quote:

• “Charger devices, proper cord management at all times — it’ll keep you alive.” — Rob Mahoney, on Patricia’s stun gun prep (33:05)

3. Mystery & Theory Corner

• Secret Warren Theory: Overwhelming consensus (emails and Reddit) is that Evan is the Secret Warren—Tom’s son, tied to the island curse. There’s also speculation around Wick, Ruth, and even broader Warren propagation.
  • “Is Evan okay? Being the, like, big question of the season—possibly— is narratively incredibly interesting and juicy.” — Joanna Robinson (05:01)
• Brooch Watch 2026: Listeners are obsessed with a jewelry box glimpsed in Tom’s trunk—possibly containing a brooch from the Warren family, linking Lauren/Evan to the founding Warren bloodline. (09:10–11:39)
• Classical Horror Motifs: The use of an unkillable, masked killer is dissected both as genre homage and plot device. The “unkillable monster” trope is compared to myth (Typhon, Greek legend) and cinematic history (Halloween, Westworld). (31:29–32:29)

4. Listener Mailbag

• Dozens of theories debated, running from fungal horror connections (black mold/mushrooms), haunted geography and folklore, to more grounded questions about Widow’s Bay’s social dynamics (e.g. Why doesn’t everyone know Bashir’s wife is pregnant?).
  • “Our listener Kat says: My bet is that it’s Ruth. Commuting with the devil takes a lot of PTO.” — Joanna, reading listener emails (12:47)
• The show’s increasingly active subreddit is shouted out for timelines, theory-crafting, and close reading of on-screen clues. (23:00)

5. Music, Easter Eggs, & Pop Culture References

• Caribbean Blue by Enya [27:22]: Used to comedic and atmospheric effect during Patricia’s moment of triumph.
• Gas station scenes feature “Absolutely (Story of a Girl)” and “Amber” — setting a late ‘90s/early ‘00s time-warp vibe that syncs with the show’s supernatural timeline.
• Book club: The Lovely Bones triggers meta-jokes about Chris’s misreading and the appropriateness of true crime memorabilia in the town’s Historical Society. (39:07–41:21)
• Show’s own legacy: Running bits (dustpan gags, brooch spelling debates), and podcast hosts’ ongoing Speed Racer/Midnight Mass trade agreement. (20:33–21:29)

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• [06:14] “If Tom’s son, Evan, is the person that needs to die in order for the curse to be broken…that is narratively incredibly interesting and juicy.” — Joanna Robinson
• [09:10] “We’re on Brooch Watch 2026!” — Joanna Robinson
• [13:52] “Do we need to interrogate the virginity of characters?” — Joanna Robinson (regarding classic horror tropes)
• [33:05] “Charger devices, proper cord management at all times — it’ll keep you alive.” — Rob Mahoney
• [34:36] “You gotta take off the mask.” — Rob Mahoney, on the slasher trope
• [35:49] “You kind of do want to see some people die.” — Rob Mahoney, discussing horror movie morality
• [38:20] “She somehow manages to look like someone who is running for the first time.” — Rob Mahoney, on Patricia’s physical comedy

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Key Theories and Ongoing Mysteries

• Secret Warren(s): Is Evan the singular Secret Warren, or are there multiple? The family genealogy of the Warrens remains a central mystery, with clues tucked in brooches, old photographs, and artifact-laden museums. (08:27–09:01)
• Boogeyman’s Role: Is he a villain or island protector? A possible inversion of the horror trope—the Boogeyman’s murders as “virgin sacrifices” to propitiate a cursed land—is floated and debated. (13:33)
• Historical Patterns: A reader-compiled timeline underscores how cycles of disaster (plagues, storms, shipwrecks, supernatural fog) hit endlessly and unpredictably; the island’s hunger isn’t on a clear schedule. (23:00–25:36)
• Mushroom & Mold Horror: Speculation that black mold and the supernatural black mushroom (that caused Tom’s trip) might be linked as surreal, reality-shifting island forces. (17:03–18:52)
• Romance & “Eligible Bachelors”: Amusing asides about the limited dating pool and near-absence of married couples — aside from Bashir and Shell, and perhaps Jerry’s unnamed partner. (52:15)
• Cell Phones Ruin Horror: The hosts agree lack of cell phones increases narrative tension, and “cell service dead zones” are a boon to modern horror. (41:29)
• True Crime Culture: Is it ghoulish to display killer memorabilia? Or just par for the course in a town built on ghost stories and tourism? (55:11)

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Highlights & Memorable Segments

• Patricia’s Stun Gun Saga: Her repeated attempts to keep it charged pay off comedically—and vitally—when she faces the Boogeyman.
• Halloween Pastiche: The slasher set pieces are lovingly made, especially when they mirror Laurie Strode’s perils—right down to refusing to assume the killer is “really” dead. (34:51–36:31)
• Physical Comedy & Costume: Patricia’s frantic, awkward running (wool slippers and all) is equal parts hilarious and cathartic.
• Matthew Rhys’s Range: Praised for mining both slapstick and tragedy as Tom; scenes with Evan highlight both warmth and despair.
• The Brooch Mystery: Close-read recaps of the object’s appearances and its supposed role as an intergenerational, curse-linking heirloom.

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Closing Thoughts & Predictions

• There are two episodes left in the season (“Emergency Shelter” and the finale). The pod speculates that a coming storm will trap everyone on the island (Jurassic Park/Isla Nublar vibes), heightening suspense and possibly forcing a sacrificial climax.
• Will Tom have to make a “the one you love vs. the town” type of choice? Is Evan’s fate sealed?
• Unresolved threads like the angry mob, descendant lineages, and Chekhov’s sacrificial chair loom large for the conclusion.

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Contact & Listener Calls

• Email: [e-mail] — especially for Emma Ketchum and the Armstrong brothers!
• Notable engagement: tons of listener emails, especially about Secret Warren and Brooch theories.

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For Next Time

• Widows Bay Episode 9: “Emergency Shelter” (Storm’s coming—will anyone get off the island?)
• Continued coverage of Euphoria, Cape Fear, and the Hacks finale on The Prestige TV Podcast feed.

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Summary by: [The Prestige TV Podcast | June 3, 2026]

Transcript

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[Joanna Robinson]

Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[Joanna Robinson]

It is episode eight of Widow's Baggage Mine.

[Rob Mahoney]

Ours, definitely.

[Joanna Robinson]

I did think it was interesting that last week's episode was titled our history and this week's episode is titled you, baggage. Who's unpacking baggage in this episode? Patricia, certainly the boogeyman History.

[Rob Mahoney]

Tom, Evan.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tom and Evan for sure. What's in the basement? We have yet to find out. And Wick. Last week was more of Wick's unpacking of baggage. But we got a little dip into the Jerry baggage pool.

[Rob Mahoney]

He wanted to unpack some baggage and then, you know, just had to eject from that whole situation.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really loved that, like, resolution to us being like, yes. And then Wick and Jerry are finally,

[Rob Mahoney]

oh no, no, she has a fella.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's a fella. He seems very nice.

[Rob Mahoney]

Seems very nice.

[Joanna Robinson]

And he's like, wick, ya old dog. It's really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also, the second Dustpan gag of the season. We're thriving.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah. Do you think like the comedy of threes? We're gonna get a third before we simply have to.

[Rob Mahoney]

The sea hag will emerge from the water, clean something up very quickly, dust it off.

[Joanna Robinson]

They didn't dustpan up the cremains of the boogeyman.

[Rob Mahoney]

There is still time.

[Joanna Robinson]

They should. Cremaine's a word I learned from podcasting with you. Okay. This episode is Directed by Andrew DeYoung, written by Emma Ketchum, a writer who we could not find other writing credits for.

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

We have some questions if you or anyone you know know Emma Ketchum and have some things to say about her.

[Rob Mahoney]

If you are EMMA KETCHUM PRESLEY, TV.

[Joanna Robinson]

EMMA Freshest [e-mail], we loved your. I loved your episode. Rob, did you love this episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

I really loved it. I mean, look, I love Patricia. I love Halloween. Therefore I love this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Halloween the holiday or Halloween the film franchise?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm so glad you asked. The film franchise, Distinctly not the holiday.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. You're not really not my vibe. No. Okay. Are you a like, stay at home, watch horror movies Halloween guy?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, that part's great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

This year I'm actually. I would love to go to the big Nightmare Before Christmas bash at the Hollywood Bowl. That's my Halloween plan for this year. Now, as an LA resident that we

[Joanna Robinson]

didn't get to see Catherine o' Hara while she was amongst us.

[Rob Mahoney]

Genuinely brutal.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so the guy. And this is Rob. The guy I know you. Rob Mahoney dresses up as Leonardo DiCaprio for various Leonardo DiCaprio marathons. Is anti. The big holiday. The big dress up holiday.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just don't want to be told what to do. You know, if it's a. If it's a fake holiday I've invented and I get to exercise on my own terms. Great. If it's like, oh, no. The institute of Big Halloween. Once you get to go to the spirit store or Big Halloween. Is it not. Is it not an industrial complex?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's a pagan holiday that has been appropriated by capitalism. Put some respect on Samhain. All right, so mailbag. Several. So many more than ever before, people have emailed US prestige tvspotify.com to say, and I quote, the secret Warren is Evan, you dumb dumbs. That's not what anyone wrote, but essentially. Essentially. Okay, so the secret warren theory that we sort of entertained in last week's episode. Yes. Every single person on the Internet is like, we're way ahead of you. Dumb.

[Rob Mahoney]

Clearly Evan.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's obviously Evan. We got some other possibilities. A couple people were like, what if it's Wick? Uh, we got a compelling Ruth theory that I quite liked, which I could talk about in a second. But overwhelmingly, people think it's Evan. And I really have to agree, because narratively, this is by far the most interesting choice. If Evan. If Tom's son, Evan Loftus, is the person that needs to die in order for the curse to be broken. And Tom, who if, you know, as you mentioned last week, if you go back and rewatch episodes previously in this season, little lines take on different meaning. So the fact that Tom, in almost every single episode, has said, where's Evan? Is Evan okay? How's Evan? Like, constantly tracking his teenage son? Which the parents of Stranger Things could take some notes because often they forget they have children for episodes at a time, right? So Tom never dropped the ball on this. I mean, he might not always have his eye on Evan, but he is always wondering, where is Evan? Is he okay? So is Evan okay? Being the, like, big question of the season possibly is narratively incredibly interesting and juicy.

[Rob Mahoney]

It makes a lot of sense. And I personally love a. As somebody who, like, I will go to bed every day for the rest of my life for the video game, life is strange. A, like, person you love or the town. Critical choice. Right in my wheelhouse, right in my zone. So I am. I am excited if it goes that way. I will say a couple things. One, I think it could also be very narratively juicy if it was someone that Tom cares about who is not Evan. And in, like, who does Tom care

[Joanna Robinson]

about who's not Evan?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think Patricia is the most sensible candidate as the most established character who feels closest to Tom, who we have spent the most time with. And then it's a choice of, like, not you give up your son's life, which, like, who's going to sacrifice their son for the sake of this town? I think that's a pretty tough sell.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Certainly not Abraham, I guess.

[Rob Mahoney]

Certainly perhaps not. But if it's like, oh, if it's sacrificing somebody else for the sake your son's freedom, that's a different kind of intellectual exercise that I could also see the show engaging in.

[Joanna Robinson]

Especially, I mean, the. The. The absolute, you know, trauma of this episode where it. Which opens with, we did it, everything's fine, the sun is shining, tourists are enjoying their time. Tom is going to take Evan not only to a Red Sox games, but also to, like, look at college. And Evan's like, except excited to get off island and go look at colleges. I really like Evan so much.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do, too.

[Joanna Robinson]

We've gotten. We've. We've kind of said that all season, but we've gotten some emails from people being like, evan's a little shit. I don't really like him. I really disagree. Like, I thought, especially in this episode, the reveal, dramatic reveal in the mirror, like, hello, Tom. Or whatever. Really funny. But, like, Evan's anger at having the truth hidden from him, but his, you know, bewilderment and sorrow over these incredibly confusing and upsetting letters written by his mother and all that information, and it ending not with, like, I hate you, fuck you, like, anything like that, but just, you know, when Tom says, because it would make me sadder than I already am, like, I just thought that was, like, incredibly lovely. And, like, I think the two of them have. Yes, it's a teenage girl boy and his dad, but they have, like, kind of a really lovely relationship also.

[Rob Mahoney]

Truly. I mean, their relationship is going to be critical to the end game in one way or another, whoever the Secret Warren or Warrens end up being. And frankly, that's my larger point with all this stuff is, are we crawling with Warrens? Well, we. This is a very small island, and anyone born on the island cannot leave, we're told, and we assume at this point, without dying.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Are there not lots of secret Warrens?

[Joanna Robinson]

Great question.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very small gene pool here on Widows Bay.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's more narratively interesting if there is but one secret Warren, but

[Rob Mahoney]

because the boogeyman has been going around killing all the other secret Warrens.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ooh, Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

On the secret Warren, it's Evan, you dummies. Front. We've got the whole brooch angle.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, we're on brooch watch.

[Joanna Robinson]

Brooch watch. 2026. Also broach spelling watch. 2026. Reddit. The Widows Bay subreddit is aflame because a lot of people think you spell broach, as in broach the subject. Yes, but it's a double O. Brooch. This has caused a lot of arguments.

[Rob Mahoney]

So you're here to broach the etymology of broach.

[Joanna Robinson]

Merriam Webster says you could do it either way, honestly. Really? So that's interesting to know. Anyway, the brooch that we see, Sarah Warren as played by the great, the legend Betty Gilpin.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Give to Frances Warren, the youngest girl who seems to be the child in

[Rob Mahoney]

the painting, the only child she acknowledged

[Joanna Robinson]

gives her the brooch to put on her doll. The brooch is not amongst the children's belongings in the museum. Indeed, the brooch does show up in episode five in a painting that Tom is looking at when he is tripping on the mushrooms.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's sitting in city hall and he is looking at this painting of this like old man gripping the neck of a woman next to him. The woman has a missing finger which young Frances Warren had a wagon wheel. Had a missing finger due to a wagon wheel incident and is wearing the brooch. So that is probably a grown up Frances Warren with her terribly old husband. Seems like a lovely marriage. The way he's gripping the back of her neck.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know what, don't judge them anyway.

[Joanna Robinson]

Where did that brooch go? Yeah, eagle eyed. Viewers have noted that when Evan. I had to like, I was like, what the hell are you guys talking about? I had to like really scour through the footage when Evan and that racy off island girl Kelly opened the black metal box that was in it's boxes in boxes and boxes. The black metal box is in the trunk in Tom's room. Inside of that there's a little. It's like a cardboard jewelry box. It's not like a velvet one, but like if you got earrings from a store and they came in the cardboard. Claire's A little nicer than Claire's, I will say above.

[Rob Mahoney]

Costume jewelry.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Could it contain a broche? Yes, it could contain any. It does look quite like jewelry box ish to me. But it could contain any number of jewelry items. But it is in there with the letters and the photos. It's on the bottom right if you want to go back and look at it. So is that brooch something that, you know, Lauren Loftus, Tom's wife, had and left is left behind with these other collectible items?

[Rob Mahoney]

It sure feels like it. It just feels like that's where we're headed. And there's even the seeds in terms of the letters that Evan is reading. The one about like everyone has two mothers. Your mother and your secret mother. There's just, just enough illusion and dancing around the idea that Lauren and therefore Evan would be of the war and bloodline. And therefore for. For the purposes of this curse in,

[Joanna Robinson]

in real deep danger, a listener cat, I believe it was wrote in, in terms of it being Frances Warren being the child that survives. She Kat was like, it's important that it's a, you know, female descendant because then no one is going to be named Warren. Right? Whoever Frances Warren, that old man who's gripping her neck wherever she married, then The Warren name is. Is gone out of the equation.

[Rob Mahoney]

And then what I'm hearing is, for the purposes of mystery, patriarchy. Good.

[Joanna Robinson]

We love the patriarchy here. But also, as far as Patricia goes, believe women when they say, the Boogeyman is back.

[Rob Mahoney]

But what about when they say the Boogeyman called them?

[Joanna Robinson]

What about if they say, I need your little baby hands to reach up my nose to take the scorpion out? It's complicated.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, you can believe that. I just wouldn't do it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Kat, our listener Kat says, this is Kat's, like, my bet is that it's Ruth. I think he explains why she's so tired and needs to frequently leave the office all the time. Commuting with the. Commuting with the devil takes a lot of pto. Great, great stuff from Kat. Okay. On the Boogeyman front, you know, in terms of, like, who has been sacrificing people to the island to keep the island appeased all this while, our listener Robert says, what if the Boogeyman's victims were actually classic virgin sacrifices to the to quiet the island, just instead of throwing them into a volcano, he baked them in a dryer. This would turn that monster into. Not a hero exactly, but at least someone trying to combat the island's curse. And that would be a fun trope and version that seems like this show would have fun with thoughts about that. About the Boogeyman being an island protector of some kind.

[Rob Mahoney]

I loved that email. I did think it was maybe slightly challenged, if not debunked by this episode in which the Boogeyman is like, just straight Michael Myers, as far as we know. But I also don't know Patricia's full sexual history. Is it possible that she has gotten to this age and is. Are we. Do we need to interrogate the virginity of characters?

[Joanna Robinson]

Lexi all over Lexi on Euphoria all over again. I don't want to talk about it. Okay. Our listener Jeff wrote in to say in the previous episode, when they mentioned the hospital, you can drive by but not slow down.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Jeff said that place might contain Tom's wife. In my opinion, since we were already hit with the, quote, haunted large building note with the hotel. I don't think they'll just repeat that. I think it's an active sanitarium with a clearly rough reputation. Wife slash mom is in there. I. The way that Tom was talking about it does not seem like it is currently active, but I would not be surprised if that is where his wife was, you know, before she passed away completely tracks.

[Rob Mahoney]

I also thought that moment in Tom and Evan's conversation where Tom, like, reflexively pushes back on the idea that it was an institution, right? That it was an asylum, and then has to, like, accept and say it out loud. Just so many great acting moments from Matthew Rhys within this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really agree. Some listeners and commenters were pushing back on my assessment that when Sarah says in the previous episode, I am but 4 and 10, that it. That that means 40 instead of 14. Yes, you're wrong. It's 4 and 20 blackbirds baked in a pie. Like, that's 24. Like, that's the construction.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's the whole thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's the construction. So I do not. I think that's the whole joke. A lot of people were like, she doesn't look 14. I'm like, that's.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's the bit.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's the bit. That's the joke. Speaking of wrong, I was wrong. I just needed to get that small win in there before I get it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Twenty and four crows for you to eat on this one.

[Joanna Robinson]

Unfortunately, my PJ Glanville theory is bullshit because that is not the same actor. I have blonde teenage blindness, and I apologize, I did not do my due diligence. I really do think that previously I'd been treating Widow's Bay as, like, a fun show that we really liked, that I was just sort of like, we're going in on Euphoria, and then we're also doing Widow's Bay as a treat. My priorities have kind of flipped in the last, like, week or so, and I would say Widows Bay is my. Is my focus now.

[Rob Mahoney]

What was the inflection point, do you think? Like, what fully switched that balance, the

[Joanna Robinson]

quality of the shows on the one hand, but also just sort of like, getting that P.J. glanville thing wrong. Just underlined to me that I was not taking this seriously as seriously as I should as a theory show, which it is. And I need to not be, like, flip with my theories and let's just get into the closing credits and scour for names and get really clear on what we're talking about. So here I am coming correct on Widow's Bay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Look, we have a commitment to accuracy and excellence on the Prestige TV podcast sometimes, most of the time, I will say some of that's like, you have to learn from the show, too. As far as, like, okay, are the theories such a central part of this show? Is this a goofy horror show?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's a theory show, but I think

[Rob Mahoney]

the seeds had been there that it was a theory show. From the beginning. But it was certainly a matter of like, okay, how seriously do we need to take every clue? How much do we need to be looking for breadcrumbs around every corner? Or is it just gonna be like, this episode is a fun romp in a haunted hotel, you know?

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. But I think the, like, the ways in which we've been able to go back and like re examine certain lines and this secret warren business is like. Which seems like it will be so integral to the endgame here. It's not over. Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is a meticulously constructed show. Impressively so.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. Our listener Patrick wrote in with a theory that the hallucinatory experiences in the hotel episode with not just Tom, but with also Kurt, the innkeeper locked in sort of the captain's room, the losing time, all that sort of stuff like that when they go in and later say, there's black mold on the walls. To me, I thought that meant time had passed differently and like mold had grown on the walls. But Patrick is like, is that connected to the black mushroom? Like, is the black mushroom and the black mold in the hotel sort of of a similar strain and like, wherever

[Rob Mahoney]

there be spooky black fungus.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Something to be concerned about.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, once the black algae comes up, like, we're going to be really in business.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's a whole sub genre of horror fiction writing that is like fungus based.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is it because of our just like, deep lack of understanding? Like there's, there's a. There's a line at which we understand what the fungi are up to. And then there's a point at which scientists are like, I'm going to be honest, we don't know what they're doing or thinking.

[Joanna Robinson]

Somebody sent me. I have not. Okay, let me just be really clear. I've not done my journalistic due diligence and like, source this article, but somebody sent me an article. I haven't read it yet, so I haven't read it yet. I'm not co signing this, but people send me Spooky mushrooms articles all the time because of the last of us. So they sent me one that was about how like a mushroom, like, learned how to crawl via a robot body. Like, they put a mushroom in a robot and it learned to crawl. And I'm like, why are. If that's true, again, that might be bullshit. Why are we doing that?

[Rob Mahoney]

Why are we training them?

[Joanna Robinson]

Why are we doing that?

[Rob Mahoney]

They've evolved into weird parasitic excellence all on their own. I don't want to facilitate it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Scientists, why are we Doing that, that's like sort of my. My rallying cry of 2026. Okay, just a couple more things before we can get more seriously into this episode. You were asking where the old Warren house was. We had a lot of people write in saying the Historical Society, naturally, the old Warren House. But our listener Nicole noted that the Historical Society is like right across the street from the restaurant.

[Rob Mahoney]

The Salty Whale.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes. So it's all. I mean, it's a small town. It's a small town. It's a small island. Here's my only bone to pick with this episode. Patricia doesn't know that Michelle is very pregnant. Shell is very pregnant. She doesn't know where has Bashir's wife, has she been in confinement like ye olde times? Nobody knows his wife is pregnant.

[Rob Mahoney]

And if. Then would you not ask a question after she's disappeared from public view for however many months?

[Joanna Robinson]

She's pregnant. And there's one gas station. We don't all know that she's pregnant. Yeah, that was my only question. But Bashir being in the gas station, being like, I have to eat this here. My wife doesn't want to smell it. I'm like, yeah, that's a pregnant lady. Plus, we saw. Okay, a fun theory that's going around is that Abigail, who is the woman that Sarah knocked into the ocean with

[Rob Mahoney]

the oar, who is infected by the

[Joanna Robinson]

plague, is the Sea Hag herself.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do love this fun.

[Joanna Robinson]

The actresses Vann Cox, who, as I mentioned, she's in you've got Mail Maisel. Like she's been around for a gajillion years and it would be really fun.

[Rob Mahoney]

I. I do believe the Sea Hag is played by a different actor.

[Joanna Robinson]

A 1 million percent. I am not PJ Glenn villain. This. I'm not saying that's the same actor.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're getting ahead of it. These are different actors.

[Joanna Robinson]

Different actors.

[Rob Mahoney]

That said, a lot of time has passed. You know, maybe you do a little recasting.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sometimes when you gotta hag it up, it gets a little different. Last not least, this is not an email. I'm just. I just wanna put this on the record, okay? You have convinced me, what have I done via friendship, to go see the film Speed Racer. By the time this episode drops, I will already have seen Speed Racer at the Egyptian here in Los Angeles.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay. In exchange, first of all, you're welcome.

[Joanna Robinson]

In exchange, you said you would watch Midnight Mass.

[Rob Mahoney]

I did.

[Joanna Robinson]

So I'm just putting that on the microphone. You haven't watched it yet. I haven't watched Speed Racer yet. But I want to see Speed Racer when all the basketballing is done and perhaps you have some more of your life back.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think perhaps sooner. We can at least start sooner.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. You will enjoy some Midnight Mass and then you will understand why people are talking about Midnight Mass so much in relation to this show.

[Rob Mahoney]

I can't wait.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're gonna love it.

[Rob Mahoney]

My only question for you is, is there like a runtime equivalency here? Like, do you need to watch Speed Racer five times?

[Joanna Robinson]

But the thing is, I don't think I'll like Speed Racer. And you know you'll love Midnight Mass.

[Rob Mahoney]

I know for a fact you are going to love Speed Racer.

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[Joanna Robinson]

at order.sweetgreen.com Quick timeline for Widow's Bay. Just some. Just some major events that have happened that I just want to run through. So in the. In 1702 and I and I shout out the Widow's Bay subreddit, which is just thriving. I got this off the subreddit. Okay. In the year 1702, a plague reaches the island. And the same year, founding father Richard Warren marries Sarah Westcott. He also carries a cylinder containing the heart of the plague affecting Widow's Bay. Okay. 1786, a deadly storm strikes Widow's Bay, forcing the residents to take shelter inside the church. Four days later, they turn to cannibalism. So 1702, and then 1786, 1810. The SS Mary sets sail from Widow's Bay. But while returning to the island, the mayor orders the lighthouse to be shut down. Coveting the captain's bride, the ship crashes, killing everyone on board. That's 1810. 1846, the fog that stole the souls occurs. A supernatural fog engulfs the island, presumably carrying ghosts of the SS Mary sailors. 1873, SS Mary, still featuring a ghostly ship, appears off the coast of Widow's Bay. The SS Mary, which had sunk 62 years earlier. Okay, fast forward. 1951. A serial killer clown terrorizes the Widow's bay Inn.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

1962, a devastating New Year's Eve disaster strikes Widow's Bay. 2000. A serial killer targets teenage girls in Widow's Bay, earning the nickname the Boogeyman. The year 2026. The fog returns, A sea hag emerges. General haggery ensues. Again, this is quoting the subreddit, but I cosign our Queen Patricia gets tricked by a cursed book, throws a party, and nearly gets everyone drowned in the bay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Accurate.

[Joanna Robinson]

The boogeyman returns. And a storm's a brewin. So like, in terms of calamitous things that have befallen Widow's Bay. Yeah, this is just like, you know, a rapid acceleration of all the things are coming back here in the year 2026. A couple more incidents that we don't have years for. The witch burnings. We don't have quite a year for that. The captain from the inn who lost his mind. And then the ungrateful Hortense Fitzgerald, our most favorite incident. So that's. I mean, I don't know, it's just fun to think about. Not fun haha, but like it is fun to think about, you know, how many dates they've thrown at us. But we don't have a sort of like every 10 years or every 5 years or something like that. The island and its capricious thirst for blood and souls to devour doesn't seem to have a set schedule that we understand yet.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, it's when it gets hungry, the bell rings.

[Joanna Robinson]

Got it.

[Rob Mahoney]

And then you bring whichever body you would like to sacrifice down into the little chair dungeon. Open up the panel. Or maybe you don't even need to open the door. Maybe it's gonna open the door. You just leave whoever you want in the chair, be on your way, and you buy yourself eight to nine years of peaceful tranquility.

[Joanna Robinson]

In people scouring the items that are in the museum, there is, like, barbed wire thing that almost looks like a crown of thorns. Like it's very Jesusy in its construction. But right next to it is like a leather cuff that looks like perhaps it is a cuff that was once attached to said chair. So again, this is like an. Like a secret hiding in plain sight of. Of this town. Who knows? Again, this is. This is the question we were asking ourselves last week. Who knows?

[Rob Mahoney]

Genuinely terrifying. But again, as you are laying out all these dates, all I'm hearing is there have been hundreds of years of war propagation, and there are. There have to be so many more Warrens out there.

[Joanna Robinson]

I thought you said war and propagation, but warren propagation, sure. All right, so you think we're just crawling with. With Warren?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think if this were true to the family tree, it would have. This island would be riddled with Warrens, narratively. We're going to have one to two Warrens.

[Joanna Robinson]

Let's circle back. I don't think it's physically possible for a novel to be longer than War and Peace. You tried to skate that by me, and I don't think it's true.

[Rob Mahoney]

But Warren propagation could be.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't think so. Is that just the Bible?

[Rob Mahoney]

Honestly, yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, this episode, Episode eight, we're finally getting to it. Rob, given your enthusiasm for Orinoco Flow, which appeared earlier in our Prestige Experience this season, Industry. Right. It was when Enya came up. How did you feel about Caribbean Blue, Enya being here in this episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

Ecstatic.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think Patricia is an Enya listener? Does that track for you?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes. She owns Pure Moods.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love it. Um, do you think. How much did you. I mean, I'm so sorry that her order got fucked up. And she doesn't want to get anyone in trouble. She just wants them to, like, maybe learn from the experience. Patricia, satisfied with her work. She helped save the island. She thinks Enya on moderate to heavy pour of the red wine, her preferred wine.

[Rob Mahoney]

Why are you being judgmental?

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm not judgmental, okay? I'm celebrating a little. She doesn't have to be around those, like, mean women who are like, we're all drinking white. If you want to drink red, that's fine. Patricia, she just can drink red in peace. But not in peace because the boogeyman's there.

[Rob Mahoney]

Because she tried to get chicken parm and coconut cream pie, and she ended up with whatever, like, high protein diet nightmare. This alternative order was unkillable monster trope

[Joanna Robinson]

in film, TV and mythology. Okay. So, as you. As you noted, we are definitely doing Michael Myers here. I mean, other than Jaws, I would say the clearest comp we've done to another, without a doubt, you know, and the Shining, I guess. But, like, this is even clearer, I would say. And here's. Here's where I'm gonna hopefully delight you with some stunt. Stunt actor information. Okay, so we have a. We have Aaron Armstrong spelled in a really fun way. A, I, R, O, N. Aaron Armstrong is playing the boogeyman. Aaron Armstrong played the Shape in David Gordon Green's Halloween kills. The shape, 1987, 8. So he played, you know, Michael Myers essentially, like in 78. Right? Like, that's. So if you go on his Instagram, it's just, like, full of him in the Michael Myers mask. So, like, they got a guy, he's been here who, like, has done this.

[Rob Mahoney]

He knows how to stalk.

[Joanna Robinson]

He. He can fall and get up again. He's got it. A fun fact is that the actor playing, he's only listed as employee. But the gas station attendant, the one employee at the gas station, may he rest in peace. Is he dead? I mean, it was quite a throw.

[Rob Mahoney]

He got hurled into the canopy of the woods.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was quite a throw. He was only trying to run his gas station and save a life.

[Rob Mahoney]

He really thought he was doing a good thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's also a stunt actor. His name is David Armstrong. So Aaron Armstrong and David, are they brothers? I could not conclusively prove this, so they do have similar cheekbones, but I could not find clear evidence. They have both worked on Marvel Netflix shows. Defend the Defender show. David Armstrong, who plays the gas station attendant, was the Iron Fist double for Finn Jones. He also. He's been involved in a couple curse properties. He was the. He was Finn Jones double for Iron Fist, and he was also in Turn off the Dark on Broadway in the Spidey suit.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, Jesus.

[Joanna Robinson]

So these are things he's done, but he's incredible. Like, if you go on his Instagram, and again, I was trying to match these brothers, but if you go on his Instagram, like, he's incredible. But I love the idea that they. I almost like the idea if they are brothers or if they know each other, whatever, that they cast him just for this, like, this moment, this lift and throw. And they got like, two seasoned stunt performers to do this. Like, I think that's kind of great.

[Rob Mahoney]

The brotherly love of one stunt performer who has been Michael Myers, being faux Michael Myers, getting to throw his brother into the woods.

[Joanna Robinson]

I kind of like that. As an idea.

[Rob Mahoney]

I genuinely do.

[Joanna Robinson]

And there's, like, history. Heidi and Renee Moneymaker, who are two of my favorite female stunt performers sisters. Like, they're incredible. They're a dynasty. So I love this idea of a stunt dynasty. Anyway, so this is. This is our boogeyman.

[Rob Mahoney]

What do you attribute that to? Is that nature or nurture? Is that just, like, there's something in their DNA that is thrill seeking?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think they're probably. No, I think they're probably, like, you know, physically, like, predisposed to this kind of work. And then, like, probably. Yeah. You see, your older sibling is like, you're both athletes, probably because, like, all stunt people are, of course, athletes as kids. Right. So you're athletes, and then you see your older sibling, like, get into this thing, and you're like, oh, wow, I want to do that too. And it's pretty great. But in terms of, like, the unkillable monster trope, in film, TV and mythology, Michael Myers is not obviously, like, the original version of this.

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

John Carpenter has said that. Yul Brenner in Westworld, the unkillable cowboy in Westworld, was his main inspo. There's also, like, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, like, all sorts of stuff. And then in mythology, you know, even richer, across the globe, this is a trope. And usually there's, like, one thing that will do it. In this case, Patricia hopes it's incineration, but it's a decent bet. Who's to say the dustpan might return? I don't know. But one mythological creature that I thought was interesting was Typhon, which is this Greek mythological monster, unkillable monster with Echidna, the father and mother of, like, most mythological monsters, but was ultimately defeated by Zeus with lightning bolts. And I was just sort of, like, thinking about Patricia's taser in that context. Like, what is the taser, if not Zeus's lightning bolt of. Of Widow's Bay.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a great connection. I mean, the stun gun being the closest thing we have to Zeus, I find to be true of modern life. And I love that power. For Patricia specifically, even if she's only at 2%.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is it a stun gun or a taser? Is there a difference?

[Rob Mahoney]

I believe that is a stun gun.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

I believe the difference. Taser, the one that looks shape wise, counterintuitively, a little more like a gun. And shoots out the dart.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Then electrocutes. I think that is a gun. Is a. I believe so.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

But could be hideously wrong. And we'll issue another Correction.

[Joanna Robinson]

If that is the case, this is a great bit. The, like, low battery on this, the needing to charge it, the tripping on the cord at one point.

[Rob Mahoney]

So, one, charger devices, two, proper cord management at all times. It will keep you alive.

[Joanna Robinson]

Keep the stun gun and or taser fully charged at all times. What you're saying, I do think.

[Rob Mahoney]

Look, I have a couple of small notes. Execution wise, if you are someone like Patricia, are you not keeping the stun gun in, like, your bedside table? Like, why is that by the front door?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, maybe she has one upstairs.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe she's got multiple. Yeah, she's. Maybe she's got three or four just, like, scattered around the home. Okay, that part makes sense.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And this is the foyer one.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes. I understand why from the moment that this dude is set on fire, why Patricia's like, I'm just gonna stand here with the shotgun and. Honestly, my favorite moment and stretch of the whole episode, even putting the Enya aside.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just the whole. The holding of the shotgun to his head, beat for beat for beat every step of the way. Really wonderful stuff. I mean, I did just have the question of. I understand why Patricia is not doing this, but anyone else involved, the EMTs or otherwise, is there no curiosity whatsoever to take off this dude's mask? And maybe, maybe you already are so sure this is the exact same guy who was the Boogeyman before. Do you not want to just make sure? Do you not want to see what state he's in? And I think earlier in the episode, too, when you first see the Boogeyman and you first get this reveal that the mask has been stolen, I at least had the thought of, is this somebody playing a cruel prank on Patricia? And clearly that is proven wrong over time. This isn't a mortal being who is getting up after every fall. But, like, I didn't think it was Chris, but it's like, could Chris have hired somebody to scare Patricia for some cheap revenge?

[Joanna Robinson]

Why would you pass Chris?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm just saying you gotta take off the mask.

[Joanna Robinson]

We've seen the Scream franchise. It could be anyone under the mask. It could be Skeet Ulrich. It could be Matthew Lillard. It could be anyone.

[Rob Mahoney]

Spoilers for all the screams.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just the first one.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, fair.

[Joanna Robinson]

I preserve the rest. The thing that I really like about this is because this is a recurrence of the Boogeyman.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Because this is essentially like Halloween 2.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. This is any version of Halloween where Laurie Strode is not believed about anything that happened to her. But specifically Halloween II. There's a moment in Halloween 2 where I think it's Dr. Loomis is saying, like, you know, a law enforcement officer is like, over the corpse of Michael Myers, and he's like, get away from him. He's not dead. And then Michael Myers slits that dude's throat. Right. So, like, we get exactly that with the EMT here. So I like that this is a sequel. And this whole idea of, like, again, believe women or whatever. Believe Patricia, except she wasn't always telling the truth. But she's mostly telling the truth when she shows up at book club and she's, like, trying to help them. But also, aren't we kind of like, get them, Boogeyman. Like, get Chris at least, you know,

[Rob Mahoney]

they really walk the line of, like. And this is what great horror movies do is like, you kind of do want to see some people die.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And you want to pick and choose who it is. And you may be right, you may be wrong.

[Joanna Robinson]

Protect Patricia. Obviously, like, some of those women get to go. Chris, especially Chris getting tased was.

[Sponsor Announcer 3]

Or.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or stun gunned was, like, incredible.

[Rob Mahoney]

Incredibly funny.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

A great, just, like, surprise moment within this episode. But. But I love that kind of Halloween 2 dynamic, or if you even want to take the sequel part out of it. Patricia as, like, somebody who is very fluent in horror movies. Almost like she's not doing any of the. I would say, maybe putting aside the occasional, like, stop and wait to see if he shows up. But she's leaving nothing to chance. She's getting her traps laid. She's there with the shotgun. She's like, I am not. I'm not letting anyone fuck up this chain of incineration.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, the thing that I like again, and Widows Bay has been so good about this from the beginning, is we are not so far ahead of the audience. So we see that the boogeyman mask is gone, and immediately Wick's like, I'm going to the house, and then I'm going to find Patricia. Yes. And even though Wick does not ultimately, like, is not integral into saving Patricia or any case, like. Like, he's on it. Right. And then Patricia, as soon, like, you know, she gets lured outside and doesn't notice that her front door's open, but, like, pretty quickly is like, there's fucking someone here.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's creepy breathing in this next room.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm out of here. You know? And so she's not like, I'm gonna take my time, get ready for bed. You know what I mean? It's just sort of like she's with us, the audience, when we're like, there's a dude there and you gotta run.

[Rob Mahoney]

And the dread of that filmmaking, I thought was really effective. From the moment you see the open door and you get the heavy breathing and you get her trying to sneak out the front. And just like you as an audience member are trained to every dark corner and, like, trying to see, like, is there somebody there? Is there a boogeyman there? Is there a normal human there? Like, pulling us into that experience is such a key part of what makes effect of horror. And the fact that they're able to do that and do the jokes at the same time. I'm just never gonna stop being impressed by that.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know, I know. Something that I really love is that among all these other things, Kato Flynn's physical comedy, which we have been praising the whole time, her dancing in the previous episode, et cetera, like, her. All of her running stuff is so funny. Her costume in this episode, the oversized shirt, the shorts, and then the, like, mukluk wool, like, slippers that come up to your. Like, that whole look is so good and just, like, so perfectly encapsulates this, like, beautifully awkward, storky sort of like, run thing that she does. And I just think it's so good

[Rob Mahoney]

she somehow manages to look like someone who is running for the first time. And that's really all you want in this kind of horror setup.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have a question for the people, for the inhabitants of Widow's Bay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are they all on sleeping pills? Like, no one's waking up. Patricia's running around and screaming her head off. And everyone is sleeping soundly.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's very quiet there too. Yeah, anyone's running around screaming bloody murder. Although one of the things I do love about this sequence is how, like, out of breath she is. Like, she's almost, like, trying to scream but gasping instead. Really effective. But yeah, the banging on the doors, the screaming, you would think some neighbor

[Joanna Robinson]

also, who, like, what time is it? Maybe the episode says, but, like, is it a really late night book club or are just a lot of people asleep very early on this island?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's like nine o'.

[Joanna Robinson]

Clock. Okay, The Lovely Bones Book Club. I just want to say Chris, who one of our listeners a while ago emailed to let us to remind us that Chris is the name of one of the bullies in Carrie. So, like, you know, a perfect naming for this character, Chris reading the Lovely Bones and being, like, enraptured by the quote unquote love story inside the Lovely Bones I'm glad that her friends were making fun of her for that. Like, goofy is not, you know, condemnation enough for Chris being like, oh, and they had their little, like, matching necklaces. Oh, my God. I was. I was.

[Rob Mahoney]

Everything regarding the Lovely Bones in this episode is very good. And just, like, the fact that they would pick that for their book club is very funny in a way that I cannot explain why, like, exactly what that touches, but it certainly does.

[Joanna Robinson]

You shouted out the. In the gas station the previous episode they were playing 3:11. Amber, right?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

In this episode we're playing. Absolutely. Story of a Girl by nine days.

[Rob Mahoney]

How many days in a year?

[Joanna Robinson]

She looks so sad in photographs. She did.

[Rob Mahoney]

We absolutely love her, though.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's Evan's mom when she smiles. And when she smiles. Only when she smiles. Absolutely. Story of a girl, nine days. Amber. 3:11. This is a real, like, time warp gas station sort of thing. And on the one hand, is it. This is The Muzak of 2026. Is like, don't say that. 20 years ago.

[Rob Mahoney]

Don't say that.

[Joanna Robinson]

But also, the Lovely Bones was written in 2002.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Story of a Girl. Absolutely. Story of a girl is a 2000 track.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

The boogeyman first appeared in, like, 2000. So, like, is this just like sort of. We're back in the time period of when the Boogeyman was first haunting the island. Just like a subtle sort of time warp energy.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's probably some of that and also some of this idea that we've talked about in previous pods of just like, everything here feels a little behind the mainland. Right. Like, there's just like a disconnect between normal modern life and this place where, like, there's shit for cell reception. Maybe there's no wifi whatsoever. We're streaming, like, old British horror movies. This is just kind of what the vibe is on Widow's Bay, the dream. Look, I. I would welcome it. I would welcome many parts of living in Widow's Bay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Boogeyman aside, can I just say that this, I think, further proves my theory that cell phones ruin most movies.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay?

[Joanna Robinson]

Because if Patricia had a charged cell phone that she could use to call Wick or Tom or anyone else, those two people probably specifically to come help her, that's. That's the end of the episode to a certain degree.

[Rob Mahoney]

But all you have to do for that is, like, she was so scared or startled or she didn't bring it with her when she went to go check out the, you know, the paddy wagon. And then she comes back in and it's, like, across the room. It's upstairs. It's in the creepy room with the boogeyman. Whatever it is, I just think this

[Joanna Robinson]

show is so much better because we cannot use the cell phone at all as a crutch, a narrative crutch.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not gonna fight you on it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Everything about life in general will be better without the cell phone connection. And yet here we are, tethered to them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Let's talk about Talm and Evan. If there is anything we haven't hit so far. What do you want to talk about?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it is scarier somehow that Lauren wasn't possessed or afflicted by something supernatural. And it is just like she had a stroke and a psychotic break. If that's all there is, maybe there's more to it. Maybe it's a deeper, darker story than that. But I think, I mean, you and I share, I think, a bond over these sorts of supernatural type stories. And when something just like very human and normal, but also depressing and tragic happens within them, it can be like the most gutting element. And that. That's where kind of my mind went in, hearing what it seems happened to Lauren.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're alluding to a. I think, a very famous storyline that we won't spoil in case Mallory's listening to this podcast from Buffy, Vampire Slayer. Yes. But, like, I was also thinking about Buffy, and I was thinking about the way in which, like, real life tragedies can become supernatural inside of this world. Because, like, if, you know, preeclampsia becoming this sort of, like, I don't know, Jane Eyre, like, Mad Woman in the Attic, like my hidden, like, you know, mentally unwell wife, like turning. Turning something that sounds so literal and medical into this sort of gothic horror idea of, I've uncovered this secret that my father kept about my mother. And the ravings inside of these letters certainly sound, you know, spookier than you would think. So, yeah, it can go either way, I think, in that regard. But either way, we're thinking about Buffy, which is very on brand for us.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is very on brand for us. But, yeah, I just love the treatment of it within those sorts of concepts. Like, it doesn't feel out of scope with the genre trappings of this show. It felt true to what the story is and has been. And the idea that of all of these secrets of, you know, dead undead founders who were buried alive, of, like, all of the mysteries of the island, that some are just like family mysteries that become this larger than life Legendary kind of thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

How did you feel about Matthew Rhys performance in this episode?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, he's had been having, like, so much slapstick fun all season, and we've raved about that. I love that aspect of what he's getting to do on this show. Cause I think it's very different from what he's often asked to do. To me, he has always been, or most commonly been the kind of performer who can just so easily tap into this, like, deep, profound sadness on a dime. Absolutely out of nowhere. He's so charming. He can dial that part of it up. And then it just undercuts and just stabs you in the side with some

[Joanna Robinson]

bit of tragic backstage. And then it's just like, well, this is the Welsh way, Rob.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is it?

[Joanna Robinson]

You know? Yeah. We're a sorrowful people.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm sorry about that for you and I guess for Matthew Rhys, but damn if it isn't effective.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, he's so good in this episode. Like, he's so good always. But I just think. And establishing all of that with Tom and Evan, with them finding him coming clean, him having this other stash of photos of Lauren behind a book. I don't know, more at the ready for him to grab. I don't know why they were tucked away there.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think just the idea, though, that these are being hidden for multiple reasons. Right? Like, there's the things he's keeping from Evan, and then there's just, like, the parts that he's keeping from himself that, like, he doesn't want to have to grapple with on a daily basis. And so that part of, like, this, like, the person I love wouldn't want you to remember the person who wrote this letters is such an understandable and deeply depressing idea, and one that would weigh down a family and weigh down a father. And the idea that we're seeing him try to understand, like, what do I share with Evan when. And, like, I'm gonna bring out these photos that are sad to me, that bring me down. Because in this moment, they're like, a heartening idea, right? Like, the idea of who Lauren was and the life that she led before all this is somehow, like, now the happy thing that brings them together.

[Joanna Robinson]

We did get an answer from production on this show about the parentage between Tom and Evan.

[Rob Mahoney]

Did we?

[Joanna Robinson]

They labeled the email, Rob, don't read this.

[Rob Mahoney]

I did not read it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you want to, like, close your eyes for a second, and I'll just tell the camera, let's do it. O.

[Rob Mahoney]

We'll just zone out for a little bit. Do your thing.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, we're done.

[Rob Mahoney]

That was it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just mouthed it. They have totally read my lips and they have to watch the video in order to.

[Rob Mahoney]

You gotta throw on the subtitles, I guess.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's. That's information we have that Rob doesn't have.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you for protecting my innocence.

[Joanna Robinson]

I always. I always protect your innocence. So let's talk about. We've got two more episodes left.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

What? You know, obviously this, you know, it isn't over. So our intrepid heroes are gonna try to figure out what, you know, if there's a warren still alive.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

How do we eliminate them? And presumably the reveal that it's Evan. The last two episodes are called Emergency Shelter. So a storm's a Bruin.

[Sponsor Announcer 1]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And we hope you enjoyed your time. Bashir and his pregnant wife, you know, have been told by Patricia, get the off the island.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah,

[Joanna Robinson]

but if this is Jurassic park rules and a storm is a Bruin, can you even get off the island?

[Rob Mahoney]

You think this is like Isla New Bar. Like, you gotta. You gotta get my chopper.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, you gotta get on the last boat or else.

[Rob Mahoney]

That is true.

[Joanna Robinson]

The storm's here and you can't get on the boat.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're on a ferry schedule.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

It seems morning based from what we've seen. Although I imagine there is a later in the evening island. Right, that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, we've. We've already had copious warnings about, like, oh, if there's thick fog, we're gonna throw that schedule to the wind like it's nothing. So bad news for Bashir and his wife. Bad news for all the off island girls still on the island. Bad news for the many visitors around the diner who are just, like, having a good time planning their holiday.

[Joanna Robinson]

You don't care about the off island girls. Don't pretend now that you care about the off island girls.

[Rob Mahoney]

I care about their general well being.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

In the pecking order of people who I wouldn't mind dying in Widow's Bay. Yeah. Like Chris and some of the mean girls. Really. Chris? Most of all.

[Joanna Robinson]

Chris. Most of all.

[Rob Mahoney]

The other women are, like, along for the ride.

[Joanna Robinson]

Enablers though they are. They don't stop, Chris.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not excusing them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And just the idea of, like, the whole, like, bye, bye, you don't have any friends because you're a psycho. Just completely uncalled for.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, and then she got stun gunned and or tased and it was great.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can we stop for a moment and just appreciate what Patricia has been through over this stretch. Like, you alluded to some of it, but it's like she almost kills the entire town in a bonfire.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

That night she goes with Wick and Tom and finds the reverend's dead body hung on his own door. Then she spends the next day babysitting Tom through his spooky mushroom trip. I mean, kind of off and on, if we're being honest about it, but she's got things to do. She's popping around town.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's the best babysitter ever.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's not great. I'm not saying she did a great job.

[Joanna Robinson]

Terrible job.

[Rob Mahoney]

Then she encounters the eternal corpse of Richard Warren. Dug him up, clearly has seen some

[Joanna Robinson]

shit, possibly offended him by something she

[Rob Mahoney]

said, and then is chased down by the boogeyman. This is like 72 hours. Yeah, you know, I. I just. She's allowed to stun gun somebody, and if it happens to be Chris, all the better. I really agree.

[Joanna Robinson]

And you're right. It is. I'm. Not that you thought you were wrong, but I. I googled it. You're right. It's a stun gun.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're just fact checking. Gun shy this week. We're just like, you know what?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't want to be wrong again.

[Rob Mahoney]

We'll be fucking dotted.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so Bashir and his wife. Anything about Wick, in terms of these final two episodes that you're thinking about?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, we have to get closure with Jerry. They have to have a conversation. No. Or you think this is it for them?

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you think. Are you rooting for Jerry's husband to die so that wicked. I didn't say that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sounds like I'm also, for the sake of fact checking, not sure they're married. Maybe they're just, you know, or fella. They're partners. They're dating. I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're right. I didn't ring. Check the fingers.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe Jerry's a swinger. I don't want to make too many assumpt. Whatever happens in Widow's Bay stays in Widow's Bay, clearly, because you cannot get off this goddamn island because the last

[Joanna Robinson]

fairy's gone and a storm's a brewing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. So we're going to take shelter. Something we. We have not talked about. Dale and Rosemary, they're barely in this episode, but we do get this great, like, is it skin cancer? Yep. Moment with Rosemary and Dale. Ruth is also here. Ruth, crucially, I will say, basically says, hey, the. The mob. The angry mob has Been calling for you. She names a bunch of people, and this sounds like sort of the action committee. Yes, that Mayor Tom Loftus. So is that going to play a part in the final two episodes?

[Rob Mahoney]

Simply has to. So, yeah. What are the reminders we get of loose threads? I think the angry mob, for sure. Just the existence of Rosemary and Dale and Ruth, who I imagine if everyone is, like, battening down the hatches sort of thing, we're going to have to account for them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, touching base on the Wick Jerry stuff, but not concluding it. Are there any other kind of dangling threads that we should keep an eye on?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. Where are the off island girls? What is PJ Glanfield doing?

[Rob Mahoney]

He may not be an immortal spirit, but he's up to no good.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's up to no good. Has everything been resolved church wise? Has everything been resolved black mushroom wise, bell wise? You know, do you think. Is that reptile still at a walkabout? I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

By the end of the season, will we see somebody in real time, present tense, put in the sacrifice chair? Are we gonna see that? The. The big steel doors open.

[Joanna Robinson]

But then is it over if someone gets sacrificed before the season's over?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is. Is the. The curse satiated, or does it thirst for more blood?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, to me, that's like the out. Right. It's. It's not as so simple as, like, do you kill your son or protect the island? It's like there is another path here to buy time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, right. This puts Tom in the Richard Warren spot.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Richard Warren, who's like, my children, you know, had this tender, you know, thought towards his children. Not towards his second wife, for sure. Not towards his first wife, it seems like.

[Rob Mahoney]

Nope.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not really caring about the wives. But. Yeah. Also something that, you know, it's interesting for. For Bashir's wife to show up in this episode because a lot of people have pointed out that, like, other than now, Bashir and Shell, we have not seen any existent couples. Well, Jerry and her fella, I guess. Yeah, but, like, that Tom is single, that Wick single, that Patricia is single, and that we have not seen, like, any other, you know, couples. And they're like, is that Widow's Bay? Is that, you know, I mean, it's

[Rob Mahoney]

a pretty limited dating pool. Like, you.

[Sponsor Announcer 1]

You.

[Joanna Robinson]

You can marry an off island person,

[Rob Mahoney]

but you got to convince them to come. Like, I'm just saying, you get to the bottom of the hinge bucket real fast in Widow's Bay. Like, you Keep swiping. And the app is just like, sorry, guys, I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

Two extremely handsome EMTs showed up. Now only one of them walked away, but where did you guys come from? Really hot. Like, I think Patricia keeps encountering, like, incredibly hot men on this island. So I love this for her. You know, I thought she and that other EMT had a moment.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, she was surviving one. She at least tried to save his life. Maybe. Kind of did. Certainly saved Bashir's life. Yeah, but Trisha's a hero, you know.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree.

[Rob Mahoney]

If the dating pool isn't good enough for her, who is it good enough for?

[Joanna Robinson]

I was really worried when Bashir got slashed in the belly. I'm glad that he seems okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Along those lines, I mean, just the coolest thing anyone can do on screen is reload a pump action shotgun. And the fact that Patricia gets to do it. Let's fucking ride.

[Joanna Robinson]

I also loved her, like, I mean, obviously, sorry, we're all over the map now, but I will say the whole, like, her plan that she forms to, like, put gas in the ground and then use her stun gun, not a taser, to light it up. And then she's like, oh, wait, I have to go pay for gas, and runs inside like, hey, guess what? The show rules. It's so funny.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's such a funny payoff for just the slow walking Michael Myers thing in general. I really thought they nailed so many of those aspects.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's what happens when you get one of the Armstrong brothers potentially to play Michael Myers.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is why you go to the source of one of the random Halloween sequels slash reboots to get a version of Michael Myers. There's one shot in particular where we get a lot during the chase of Patricia kind of runs off screen and then you're kind of waiting for the boogeyman to catch up. And on one of those occasions, the boogeyman is like three times closer to the camera than you expect. And it's just like. It's something like that where it's just kind of depressurizes the situation. You get kind of the jump of being scared, but also the relief of the surprise at the same time. Just yet another way. This show is just kind of perfectly calibrated.

[Joanna Robinson]

Also, the score is really good in terms of the sort of like mimicking of the Halloween score, but doing its own special thing at the same time.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a tough one to mimic, you know, Carpenter's carpenter for a reason.

[Joanna Robinson]

Anything else, Joe?

[Rob Mahoney]

I do have one last thing. If you were, Jerry. Or a member of the Historical Society? If you're a fine citizen of Widow's Bay. Are you eager to put the implements of a mass murderer who may be an immortal beast of some kind, like the boogeyman on display in your museum? Are you putting the mask in there?

[Joanna Robinson]

If you're also saying, like, the witches caught them, burned them, like, if that's your vibe, Jerry, I think you are. If you're like, cannibalism for, you know, like, that's what the whole Historical Society is. That feels like not an outlier at all.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess not, especially. Look, we live in a true crime era. For the people of Widows Bay. This is true crime. Maybe I am just a little squeamish around this idea, but, like, serial killer notes and recollections and masks feels a little. A little grotesque.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't even like true crime podcasts. Like, I don't like a murder podcast. I'm not.

[Rob Mahoney]

You prefer the lived experience. You prefer to be doing the murders.

[Joanna Robinson]

But. But so would I go to the Historical Society? No. Not ever. Not once.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

But again, options are limited on this island of. Of recreation. So something to think about.

[Rob Mahoney]

We got to get Evan off here. We got to get him to college. College gets to ponder.

[Joanna Robinson]

He was so excited. He doesn't want to walk the freedom trail, but he has a lot of other things that he wants now that

[Rob Mahoney]

he's known one off Island Girl. He's like one. Are they all like that? And I need to investigate. And clearly he wants. He wants to go to campus, whatever campus that might be in the Greater

[Joanna Robinson]

Boston area or off campus, you know. Hey. All right, so that is Widow's Bay episode 8. If we missed anything on, like, Broach Watch or anything else. Pressage, tvotify.com I did enjoy all of the secret Warren emails that we got this week. Some great stuff.

[Rob Mahoney]

Genuinely amazing.

[Joanna Robinson]

If you are one of the Armstrong stunt brothers and you're actually brothers, and I could not confirm that, please let us know anything else that they should email us about. Rob.

[Rob Mahoney]

Or if you're Emma Ketchum. Right. Those are our two asks for the week.

[Joanna Robinson]

And Aaron and David Armstrong email us.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that's it. I think that's a great podcast.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we did it. I think we said everything completely, factually, accurately, possibly maybe for the first time in podcast history, but we did it.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, thank you to Dev Ronaldo, Kai Grady, Jacob Cornette. I also heard Chris Waller's voice. So Chris is around here somewhere.

[Rob Mahoney]

Of course. Thank you. To Chris Waller. Thank you to mysterious basements. Thank you to brooches.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you to brooches.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean they just, they're always doing important work.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Thank you to a lone sausage link in a styrofoam container. Nothing has ever looks at it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you to Patricia for phoning in her complaint. It fell on deaf ears in a full voicemail inbox, but she didn't want to get that person in trouble. She's not trying to cost anybody their job.

[Joanna Robinson]

No.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just wants them to know so they can learn.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's very me energy. Thank you, Rob Mahoney.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you, Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

I should say Friday Night Lights. We did an episode that's in the feed. If you guys didn't check that out. Euphoria finale will have happened by the time this episode's dropped, but it'll be

[Rob Mahoney]

there on the feed for you to revisit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Will we ever be the same again? Who's to say? And then of course, more what is Bay and Cape Fear is something we're going to be starting soon.

[Rob Mahoney]

We will be covering Cape Fear also

[Joanna Robinson]

on Apple spooks and chills and fears.

[Rob Mahoney]

It really is stalking season.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, also, the Hacks finale aired last night. I haven't had a chance to watch it yet by the time we're recording this, but I might drop like a hax finale reaction into our Euphoria finale. Just like a brief like, like this is how much I cried or whatever.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would love that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, bye.

[Rob Mahoney]

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[Joanna Robinson]

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