‘Widow’s Bay’ Episode 9: Cloudy With a Chance Of …

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast: "Widow’s Bay" Episode 9 – “Cloudy With a Chance Of …”

Release Date: June 10, 2026
Hosts: Jordan Robinson & Rob Mahoney

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the penultimate (Episode 9) installment of Widow’s Bay, focusing on its pivotal character reveals, strong comedic beats, thematic resonance with Stephen King’s Storm of the Century, and the masterful performances—especially by Dale Dickey as Rosemary. Jordan Robinson and Rob Mahoney share their instant reactions, analyze key developments, respond to listener theories, and set the stage for the highly anticipated finale.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Table-Setting and Pacing

• Purpose of the Episode:
  The hosts agree Episode 9 is fundamentally a “table-setting” entry.
  • “It's a table setting episode, and if you cut out like Tom going back and forth from the lighthouse and Wick getting Bashir to the shelter and stuff like that, it's a shorter episode. It could have been an even shorter episode.” — Jordan Robinson [02:20]
• Audience Reaction:
  While the structure may seem less eventful, Jordan and Rob find value in the careful maneuvering of characters and dramatic stakes ahead of the finale.

2. The Rosemary Genealogy Presentation – A Comedic High Point

• Dale Dickey’s Performance:
  Both hosts celebrate Rosemary’s extended scene as a comic tour-de-force and a master class in character acting.
  • “This is Rosemary’s like, Linsanity moment… giving her, like, clear out. Let’s just let Rosemary hold the room.” — Rob Mahoney [03:20]
• Writing & Performance Synergy:
  The painstakingly detailed, transparencies-based family tree reveal is both a parody and homage to high drama TV exposition tropes.
  • Best Quotes:
    • “Dead baby. Dead baby. Dead baby, lesbian. Happy pride.” — Rob Mahoney [28:41]
    • “The family that swims together, drowns together.” — Jordan Robinson [28:50]
    • “Next thing you know, your dad’s dead and your stepmom is taking you on an adventure. Destination? Hell.” — Rob Mahoney [30:42]
  • Audience engagement with even the smallest prop details—like Rosemary’s stash of Diet Coke—shows the show’s and podcast’s meticulous, loving attention to detail. [26:09]

3. Major Revelation: Ruth is the Secret Warren

• Plot Impact:
  The episode’s big reveal is that Ruth, not Evan or any of the leading suspects, is the “last Warren”—the focal point for the curse and the island’s moral dilemma.
  • “I like the choice of Ruth…making him [Tom] choose between someone’s life and his son’s future.” — Rob Mahoney [10:47]
  • The decision reframes the approaching finale from a straightforward sacrifice trope into a more complex social/moral problem—who is valued, and why?
• Community vs. Individual Stakes:
  Will the final decision fall to Tom, or will a more collective, potentially mob-like force decide Ruth’s fate?
  • “What if it is not Tom who makes that call? What if it is…the broader community has to decide?” — Rob Mahoney [11:53]

4. Parallels: Stephen King’s Storm of the Century

• Around [12:26] and [36:02], Jordan draws direct comparisons between Widow’s Bay and King’s 1999 miniseries:
  • A storm forces a small community into an impossible moral choice involving sacrifice
  • “Patricia kind of standing in for this sort of, like, Tim Daly voice of, like, ‘we cannot do this for our souls’ sort of role.” — Jordan Robinson [39:58]
• Thematic Echoes:
  Both stories probe the human and community capacity for denial, self-deception, and the ethics of sacrificing one to save many.
  • “The season is about denial… My guess is that Lafis is denying something more than the curse itself and that the season ends with a collapse of whatever he’s been clinging to.” — Listener Jana, read by Jordan [13:16]

5. Character Studies: Patricia and Moral Centers

• Patricia’s arc—her anxiety, societal role, and emergence as the group’s conscience—receives both listener email and host attention.
  • “She’s also the moral center of this episode. Like, she’s the one saying, hold the fuck on. Are we talking about shooting Ruth in the back of the head? This is ridiculous.” — Rob Mahoney [21:45]
  • Nicole’s email highlights how Patricia embodies both horror’s social critique and biting comedy [20:09].

6. Fan Engagement & Theories

• Listener emails cover:
  • Background character continuity (the woman with Tom’s brochure)
  • The importance of names/Anglo-Saxon roots (Warren, Fisher, etc.) [16:15]
  • Symbolic connections (the hand turkey = the shape of the island) — debated humorously [32:25]
  • Ongoing “brooch watch” — searching for clues in recurring props [51:06]
• Hosts praise the show’s “democratic” writers’ room, highlighting Emma Ketchum’s promotion from assistant to credited writer [05:28].

7. Setting Up the Finale: Predictions and Open Questions

• What does it mean for Ruth (an elderly, unmarried woman) to be the sacrificial candidate compared to a child?
• Will the “town meeting/mob” aspect repeat Storm of the Century and expand the dilemma beyond Tom?
• Predictions on Bashir and Shell’s baby, Ruth’s fate, potential destruction of the lighthouse, and the show’s longer-term arc (“I don’t think they can wrap it all up in the finale because I think they want more seasons of this show. As do we.” — Jordan Robinson [48:49])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Table-Setting Structure
  “It just felt like the least eventful. But you're right. From a character standpoint, this is Rosemary's like, Linsanity moment…” — Rob Mahoney [03:20]

• On Rosemary’s Big Scene
  “But structurally, like, from a writing standpoint, turning a Game of Thrones y…lineage reveal into like…a full family, multigenerational family tree for a third of the runtime…is a very funny thing to do.” — Rob Mahoney [27:59]

• On the Moral Dilemma
  “I think making it so that if it is Tom who has to make this sort of decision…making him choose between someone’s life and his son's future…” — Rob Mahoney [10:47]

• On Storm of the Century Comparison
  “There’s the mist, which we’ve been talking about since the beginning, but even the mist is something like a little more monstrous…but…this isn’t a pure weather disaster kind of story.” — Rob Mahoney [40:48]

• On Apple’s Recent Hot Streak
  “If they're finding their lanes, if they're like ‘we do weird little sci-fi things’ … they try to do big sci-fi IP…but if they’re like…these quirky theory shows…they’re breaking through in a more consistent way.” — Jordan Robinson [53:27]

• On Community’s Growing Hype for the Show
  “Like we already mentioned earlier in the season, but I just have really been feeling like every week the noise around this show has been growing and growing and people are just like completely obsessed about it…” — Jordan Robinson [52:18]

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Important Timestamps & Segment Highlights

• [01:15] – Episode cold open; penultimate episode reactions
• [02:20] – Table-setting and episode length discussion
• [03:20] – Dale Dickey’s performance praise (Rosemary)
• [10:01] – Ruth revealed as the secret Warren; impact on Tom’s moral dilemma
• [13:16] – Listener theory: the theme of denial
• [20:09] – Listener Nicole’s email on Patricia’s “final girl” moment
• [27:59] – Rosemary’s presentation: live reactions and best punchlines
• [32:25] – Fan theory: the hand turkey and the island map
• [36:02] – Deep-dive: Storm of the Century connections
• [40:43] – Comparing horror genre tropes and their fit for this episode
• [44:47] – Accounting for island deaths; local infrastructure speculation
• [51:06] – The end of “brooch watch”
• [53:27] – Apple’s programming identity, current “hot streak”

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Tone & Style

The vibe is irreverent, self-aware, and highly engaged, balancing in-depth TV criticism with humor (“Jacka rabbits,” “three Diet Coke cans”), and frequent, knowing asides (“If you’re a meteorologist…Helen Hunt…let us know!” [15:40]).
The hosts keep the discussion brisk and funny, yet never lose focus of Widow’s Bay’s bigger questions about community, sacrifice, denial, and genre homage.

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Conclusion

This episode adeptly sets up the emotional and narrative stakes for the Widow’s Bay finale—praising the show’s writing, performances, and thematic weight. Through both their own discussion and rich listener input, Robinson and Mahoney highlight what distinguishes Widow’s Bay as a genre-blending, expectation-upending TV standout.
The conversation leaves listeners eager for the final episode—and appreciative of the series' careful mix of horror, humor, and human drama.

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Next time: The hosts return for both the Widow’s Bay finale and coverage of Cape Fear (“Trash Trapeze Theater”). Watch social channels for potential live finale coverage!

Transcript

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[Jordan Robinson]

Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Jordan Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[Jordan Robinson]

It is the penultimate episode of Widow's Bay. Storm's a brewing. How are you feeling?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we're past a brewin. It's here.

[Jordan Robinson]

It's here. The storm has arrived.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's arrived.

[Jordan Robinson]

We got several emails, I will say. And where can folks email us?

[Rob Mahoney]

Prestigetvpotify.com we got several emails over the

[Jordan Robinson]

last few weeks about a Stephen King miniseries called Storm of the Century. Or if you were one of the actors in 1999 in that miniseries, Storm of the Century. Anyway, I watched some of it. Yeah, it is very relevant specifically to this episode. And so we'll talk about it a bit in context at the end of our discussion of this episode. But what did you think of this episode of television? Rob Mahoney?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, there's a huge revelation that we've been.

[Jordan Robinson]

One singular huge revelation.

[Rob Mahoney]

We've been dancing around for weeks.

[Jordan Robinson]

Spoilers.

[Rob Mahoney]

Huge revelation. We will be discussing it. All appropriate spoilers. There's a lot of people lining up in somewhat orderly fashion and that's kind of it.

[Jordan Robinson]

It's a table setting episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a real table setter, which is fine. This is the way these things tend to go at this stage of a season.

[Jordan Robinson]

It's a table setting episode and if you cut out like Tom going back and forth from the lighthouse and, you know, Wick getting Bashir to the shelter and stuff like that, it's a shorter episode. It could have been an even shorter episode. That being said, for Me, the great Dale Dickey is playing Rosemary.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Giving her this. I rewatched that scene so many times. Cause I just think it's so funny. So, like, for me, Worth. And this is my feeling about Widow's Bay in general. Like, I'm greedy for more. And, like, I want all of these episodes to be longer and, like, they always leave me wanting more, which is, like, on the one hand, good. But I just thought the Rosemary stuff was so phenomenal in this episode that, like, while I completely agree with you, it's a table setter and not a ton happens. We're setting up for a great place for the finale.

[Rob Mahoney]

Of course.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. In isolation. I can see how you're like, okay, we're, we're. We're moving pieces around.

[Rob Mahoney]

It just felt like the least eventful. But you're right. From a character standpoint, this is Rosemary's like, Lynn sanity moment. If you'll. If you'll spare the sports comparison, but, like, giving her. Her, like, clear out. Let's just let Rosemary hold the room.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Make her presentation. She does with overlaying, like projector slides.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. Transparencies.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sorry? The transparencies. It's been a minute. I know you're.

[Jordan Robinson]

You're too young.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, I was there. It's just been a minute.

[Jordan Robinson]

Just some quick programming. The. For us for our podcast feed, I should say. We got a couple emails or comments from people saying, hey, will you be covering the vampire listat on this feed? No, on House of Our. In a quite serious fashion, yes. So if you want to hear week to week coverage of the Vampire Lestat, including Mallory Batta's vampire fangs, there's like a lot involved. That's over on the House of our family.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who bought whatever duster or coat you're wearing?

[Jordan Robinson]

It's right over there.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm glad it's here in the room with us. It is very special.

[Jordan Robinson]

Thank you. It's a Penny Lane moment if I ever had one. So that's happening. Cape Fear, however. That's here, baby. Cape Fear. The.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's where we live. That's where we sweat.

[Jordan Robinson]

We had some questions after episode two, whether or not we would cover week to week. We asked listeners if they wanted us to. We got a lot of emails of people saying, yes, please. And then also Rob and I have since watched episode three and we both agreed we are in for week after week.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm in there like a dead skunk in a pool.

[Jordan Robinson]

Are we going to regret it come week eight?

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe. Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

But we're calling this Trash trapeze theater. As in it's summer's here. Apple has presented us a la Presumed Innocent, another prestigey skeezy fun time at the television show. So that's what we'll be watching.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. We're here covering Widow's Bay because we have come to really love all of the charms of this show.

[Jordan Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're going to be covering Kate Fear because we don't know what to make of it, but we're down to sleeze it up a little bit.

[Jordan Robinson]

We're having a fun time. We had asked some questions about the writer of last week's episode, Emma Ketchum, which we heard from Emma herself. She emailed the pod.

[Rob Mahoney]

Incredible.

[Jordan Robinson]

Presshtvspotify.com how do you feel about the

[Rob Mahoney]

power that you wield to will an email from Emma Ketchum into the world?

[Jordan Robinson]

Well, I really love. Emma emailed us and then a couple other people emailed us with information about Emma. But it's all the same, which is just basically that Emma was Katie Dipple's writer's assistant. And then Katie sort of gave her this opportunity. So this is her first writer's credit. Yes. And I just want to.

[Rob Mahoney]

The reason episode eight, we should say

[Jordan Robinson]

episode eight, and the reason I want to sort of single that out is that it's rare for a writer's assistant in the first season of a television show to get a written by credit on an episode. So what to me that speaks to is Katie Dippold's like quite democratic approach to her writer's room. And especially coming off something like euphoria, which doesn't even have a writer's room, like hearing that, it just makes me think very highly of this show and of this, because that's how you get more and better TV writers, is that you, like the assistants in the room, learn and they get to grow and they get to put their credit on an episode. So I just think it's fantastic, especially

[Rob Mahoney]

for a show like Widow's Bay, where if you step off the path tonally, ever so slightly, I think it would be really, really glaring. And yet episode eight felt locked in, in step with everything that they've been doing all season long. An incredible testament, I think, to Emma's work, but also to the greater, I'm sure, the writer's room and the construction and the streamlined nature of the way that this show is made.

[Jordan Robinson]

Right. It's an entire.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's a cohesion to it.

[Jordan Robinson]

It's a cohesion, but it's a collaborative effort. It will be Interesting. If in future, if Widow's Bay runs for a million years, which we hope it does. If in future you'll be able to identify, like, oh, that's a Neil Casey episode, or that's whatever episode, but thus far, we're getting a really cohesive.

[Rob Mahoney]

But, you know, like, as a stun gun and. Or a taser, that's. That's another catch up.

[Jordan Robinson]

That's something that I have. A catch up.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's her trademark.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, when you watch, like, certain shows like Lost or X Files, you know, and like, Darren Morgan would come on and do these, like, extremely weird episodes, you're just sort of, like, excited about that. So we love writers on this show. All right. Hannah reached out to give us a Babadooking that I wanted to share, please. And if you're coming in late to the season, just to establish that. Kitty Dippold, of course, showrunner of Widow's Bay, author of this incredible Babadook tweet.

[Rob Mahoney]

The one good thing to come out of Twitter.

[Jordan Robinson]

The one. Well, I don't know. Have you seen what Hunter Biden. Biden's been doing on Twitter lately?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm trying to check out.

[Jordan Robinson]

No, like, genuinely, it's great.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think I'm good, thanks.

[Jordan Robinson]

I think I should share. Send you some tweets. The concept of babadooking, we have determined, is like showing up to something, misreading the tone of the event that you're arriving to and really kind of making, unwittingly making a spectacle of yourself, most

[Rob Mahoney]

often misunderstanding the dress or the coat or the attire or. Yeah, I think just the general vibe is appropriate, too.

[Jordan Robinson]

Hannah wrote in to say in college, and she attached a photo. It's always great when they attach a photo to the Babadooking emails. Hannah wrote in to say, I went in college. I went to a Halloween party full of intimidating, unwelcoming Khaleesi and sexy whatevers. And, boy, did I regret dressing as Angela Merc. Nobody knew who I was. I failed miserably at Flip cup, had a bit of a tantrum, got way too drunk, and complained shrilly about being a woman in a position of political leadership. I've had about a million Babadook moments since, but I did learn from that Halloween the next year, I went as sexy Boris Johnson and terrified all my friends.

[Rob Mahoney]

So, I mean, there is a. A near distance from Angela Merkel to sexy Boris Johnson. Somehow, like, that's. I can see how one costume could become the other.

[Jordan Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm pulling it up now, this is. This is really something. This is quite a good uncle and Merkel fast.

[Jordan Robinson]

I agree. I agree. The wig work is fantastic. All right. Mimi wrote in about a detail in episode eight that we missed, noting that when Tom and Patricia and Wick are eating breakfast in there, like, we did it, it's done that There was a woman who had, like, one of Tom's brochures that he got printed up, where I think the one that he tries to rip up in this very episode. So at the beginning of the episode, she's holding this brochure. And then at the end of the episode when Patricia goes to the hospital to visit Bashir, she's there with a neck br. And, like, her arm in a sling. So it's just sort of like from we did it to we're still fucked as represented by this one, like, background actor. I thought it's a really fun detail. Mimi pointed out to us. Lauren pointed out last ago, maybe, like, a couple weeks ago, about Patricia's career as a painter, as an artiste. And I don't know if that's gonna come into play, but do you feel like it came into play in this moment when she turned into the Widow's Bay subreddit and noticed the missing finger on the portrait inside of this episod?

[Rob Mahoney]

The opportunistically ripped, so only the finger is exposed on the rear side of the canvas.

[Jordan Robinson]

I was rewatching Matthew Rhys having to, like, slam it down on the table to get it to, like, the exact right place where it could conceivably rip there. I think it rips on, like, a speaker tower or something like that. Anyway, it was great. Really good. As we mentioned, Rosemary does the full genealogy to get to the reveal of Ruth, not Evan Loftus as the last

[Rob Mahoney]

remaining Warren, nor Patricia, nor Wick.

[Jordan Robinson]

And I should say this is sort of your initial instinct where you were, like, it should be someone who has, like, been here in the background the whole time. So we know them, but. But sort of waiting to step into the limelight. So how do you feel about Ruth as a. As a choice for that?

[Rob Mahoney]

I like the choice of Ruth or someone who's not Evan. And we talked about this a little bit, but I think making it so that if it is Tom who has to make this sort of decision, he has to weigh the life of this person. And he's kind of increasingly nudged toward human sacrifice as he realizes that, oh, it's just one person. Oh, it's an elderly person. Who cares if it's Ruth? I could be talked into this in this particular moment, but making him choose between someone's life and his son's future.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

The idea that Evan can't leave the island unless his other person dies, he'll

[Jordan Robinson]

never see the Red Sox play in person.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know if that's a blessing or a curse. We'll have to do some polling here, here at the office.

[Jordan Robinson]

Wow.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that, to me, is more interesting. Consolidating everything into Evan feels like a little bit of a narrative traffic jam.

[Jordan Robinson]

What I do think is interesting is that this episode sets up Tom as a father concerned about his child's future, and then also Bashir as, like, a father concerned about his wife and his potential baby's future. And so you still do get this sort of, like, parents concern about their children aspect, which, when we get to the Stephen King Storm of the Century, sort of comp, is very much in the water there.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, with the Bashir part, too, this episode left me wondering. Is the decision of what to do with Ruth going to be a Tom decision at all? We see him and Wick and Patricia wrestling with that idea in this episode, but Bashir and Shell and their conversations in this plot line, they make me feel like there's another shoe to drop. And it feels like, what if it is not Tom who makes that call? What if it is? Sort of like the broader community has to decide. This, like, angry mob that's been burbling all throughout the season. They have to decide who they are and what they're willing to give up, because everyone, Bashir included, like, they have things at stake in this, too.

[Jordan Robinson]

So I was gonna save all of the storm of the century stuff for the end, but I should say that, like, the big climactic sort of event of Storm of The Century, this four hour miniseries that aired on ABC over three nights in 1999, is a town meeting. And the whole town has to decide what to do in terms of sacrificing someone to end a storm and defeat. A classic Stephen King, is it the devil kind of person?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know if this is going to be a town meeting or not. It could be angrier than that. Maybe it's everybody stuck in the town

[Jordan Robinson]

mobbing more than a town mob.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know if, like, whose rules of law is it? Like, I don't know if all of the congressional approvals are going to be required to get this thing off the ground so much as people are going to make a rash emotional decision about whether they. How they want to Attempt to survive whatever this storm is.

[Jordan Robinson]

Our listener Jana wrote in to say to give us a broad theory. They said that Katie Dippoldis said the series is. The season is about denial. The first scene of the series is Shep talking about his decision to end his relationship, even though his partner has very clearly already ended it. She's literally packed his bags, but Shep is still narrating events as if he is the one making the choice. He is in denial about something painfully obvious. I wonder if the same is true for Loftus. The assumption is that Loftus is in denial about the curse, but that doesn't hold up. He resists the island lore for a while, but after his encounter with the sea hag, he relents. By the middle of the season, he enforces curfew moves with the logic of the curse. I think his denial is about something else. There have been enough hallucinations, visions, and reality bending moments throughout the season that I would be surprised if our understanding of something basic about reality on this weird island, complete with insane asylum, remains intact. My guess is that Lafis is denying something more than the curse itself and that the season ends with a collapse of whatever he's been clinging to. That's interesting, but, like, establishing denial as a. As a big sort of theme of the season, I think is interesting.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it is interesting. I wonder, though, with Loftus specifically, how much he was ever fully in denial versus that's what he was projecting to the world.

[Jordan Robinson]

Because I think he was in denial.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think the backstory with his wife suggests that he's at least, like, tangentially aware and maybe even personally familiar with some of these, like, supernatural elements that he then, as mayor, pretends to not believe in.

[Jordan Robinson]

Possibly. But also, like, the way he describes it to Evan is like, complications, preeclampsia. You know what I mean? Like, so perhaps he was like, man of science, man of faith. There's a man of science explanation for this. And like, once a sea hag cornered him in a bathtub. He's like, oh, I'm a man of faith now.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's when she splashed on him.

[Jordan Robinson]

I think it's when he saw our shaman Todd get sucked up into a cyclone. A big cyclone.

[Rob Mahoney]

Tornado. Yeah. What's the difference between cyclone and tornado?

[Jordan Robinson]

Land touching land.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is it really?

[Jordan Robinson]

I think so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wait, is this a stun gun versus I'm just realizing I don't know what a cyclone is.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay. Cyclone versus tornado. I feel like, oh, cyclone has been used to describe anything that rotated counterclockwise so often tornado on a cyclone are interchangeable. I thought one had to do with, like, touching land. Maybe not. It's been a while since last year.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're saying the cyclone needs to touch grass.

[Jordan Robinson]

Prestige [e-mail] if you paid closer attention to either Twister or Twisters, if you're

[Rob Mahoney]

a meteorologist, if you're in it, if you're Helen Hunt, if you're in it for the science, not the money, then please get at us.

[Jordan Robinson]

Let us know. Eric wrote in. This is the email I was reading where I was like, huh? Before we started recording. You're like, okay, Joanna. Something I really enjoyed of the whole genealogy journey that Rosemary goes on this episode is that as it begins. One of my favorite things about the movie Hot Fuzz, which is a movie we've already referenced a couple times in establishing this, the greater good, all of

[Rob Mahoney]

that, that of us, all of it,

[Jordan Robinson]

is how all the townspeople have these Anglo Saxon names. So their last names are like, what they do. So there's like, Gardner and Tiller and like. And so Wheeler, et cetera, et cetera, Cartwright, Wainwright, blah, blah. Warren, which is sort of guardian. And then, like, Fisher, it's a whaler who rescues Francis out of the sea. His last name is Fisher. So, like Frances Fisher, great actress, but also the name of a character on the show. So, like, you have those Anglo Saxon names sort of at the beginning, and then it changes as you go down the history. But Eric wrote in to talk about the. The name Warren. So, like, protector, nurturer, stewardship of the land. Like, that's a thing that Warren can mean, but also, like a rabbit's warren. It could be a complicated series of tunnels or a maze. So we were already talking about the, like, tunnel system underneath Richard Warren's house. So this, like, double meaning of, like, Warren as island protector, but also Warren as in, like, the rabbit's warren under the system of tunnels underneath this island. I thought that was fun.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do you think it's possible that the storm shelter connects to those tunnels?

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I do. You think it's inevitable that it connects to those tunnels? Are we stumbling into the sacrifice room that.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay. When Dale turns on the lights? Emmy. Okay. Emmy winner Jeff Hiller, I think, has not been used to his full extent this season. Has not Dale Dickey got her time to shine in this seemingly. Ruth will have plenty to do in the finale, I assume.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

I don't know when we're getting our episode for him. Maybe it's a season two situation.

[Rob Mahoney]

Could be. But of the Core City hall cast, I think you're right that he is the one member who has not really had a spotlight moment yet other than DJing.

[Jordan Robinson]

Right. And the mushroom trip sort of, like, mask moment.

[Rob Mahoney]

That is true. That was horrifying.

[Jordan Robinson]

But, like, his face. So I want more for him to do, but his face, like, when he turns on the lights. Same hard. Same. Would I go down into that shelter? I'm not sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Where are you going?

[Jordan Robinson]

So anywhere else. That looks so haunted.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's the storm of the century of centuries.

[Jordan Robinson]

It looks so haunted down there.

[Rob Mahoney]

Better. Better haunted than dead.

[Jordan Robinson]

I don't know. I might use my, like, sort of California earthquake mentality to be like, can I just stand in a door frame? Will that protect me somehow?

[Rob Mahoney]

In this case? I don't think it's gonna work.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay, fine. Also, I wanted to note that in this episode, one thing that I loved is that Tom and Patricia have this very nonverbal understanding of each other. I want to maybe go back and track it all season, but there's a number of times where Tom just sort of, like, nods at her and then she just does, you know, like, turn on the fan, close the door, do whatever.

[Rob Mahoney]

The old man who shows up, the Old Timer. I mean, really to be, like, the harbinger of the storm to come, but really just the exposition drop. That scene is so funny.

[Jordan Robinson]

Closing the door. I know.

[Rob Mahoney]

The very slow, calm, quiet closing of the door as he just continues a pace outside.

[Jordan Robinson]

I love that he's, like, simply credited as Old Timer in the closing credits. That's cool.

[Rob Mahoney]

I was calling him in my notes. Old Basil Exposition. How do you feel about that?

[Jordan Robinson]

You're just bringing Michael York back into the mix after Euphoria. I love that. I love that for you. Okay. I wanted to read this email that we got from Nicole about Patricia, which I really loved, specifically about Patricia. In episode 8. She wrote. I thought this episode, episode 8, like all great horror, had a cutting social commentary, this time with Patricia. Her performance of the final girl running from the boogeyman at first is actually very quiet, almost performative. It screams the actions of a woman who is so insecure, she doesn't want any reparation or negative repercussions for others because she got a disgustingly disparate dinner from what she ordered. It's the meekest, funniest cries for help I've ever seen. Patricia is screamingly, painfully relatable. Watching her run from the boogeyman in a way that didn't disturb others was the funniest Thing I'd seen in months until I got to her holding the shotgun against the Boogeyman's head in four different locations, that killed me. So, like, for Patricia to go from, like, help, help a bit to, like,

[Rob Mahoney]

stun gunning, Tasing, even just barging into the girl's night to begin with to

[Jordan Robinson]

Chris to the shotgun situation, is this, like, evolution for Patricia? And for Patricia, you know what? Nicole singles out another moment in that episode when, which I didn't really clock, when Patricia is talking to Bashir about Chell being pregnant, and she says, like, how old is she? Yeah, I thought she was just sort of asking is like, it didn't even occur to me that Shell could be. And she kind of is. But also inside of this episode, when they're debating about what to do with Ruth, and they're like, she's not married. She doesn't have kids. And Patricia's like, well, glad that, you know, I'm not at a Warren dissenter. You would already slit my throat. This idea of, like, does a woman have less value if she's not married, if she doesn't have kids? You know, up against Tom Loftus, who's like, you don't understand. I have a child to protect. Or Bashir, theoretically, I have a child coming that I want to protect. You know, and so, like, the value of the unmarried, you know, doesn't have a child, woman on side of this island. And so does Patricia have this moment inside of episode eight where she finds out that Shel is pregnant and she's like, like, is this still possible for me? I thought maybe I was, like, past my sell by date to a certain degree. Which is a theme that has been running up for a lot of the women inside of the seasons, for sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, it's clearly part of the cortex of the show for many of the characters. And I also love that Patricia has all that going on where she is constantly being confronted with her age, with the fact that she is single, with her role in this community, and how ostracized she feels within it from the people she went to school with. But she's also the moral center of this episode. Like, she's the one saying, hold the fuck on. Are we talking about shooting Ruth in the back of the head? This is ridiculous. Whereas people who do have kids or people who just feel like they have different motivations are very willing to at least consider this, like, really barbaric thing.

[Jordan Robinson]

Do you. Do you view that scene with, like, Tom and the episode ends with, we don't Know what Tom's gonna.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, we can suspect.

[Jordan Robinson]

We suspect what Tom is off to do, but he has not answered what he's going to do. So if Tom is the undecided and you have Wick being like, you gotta.

[Rob Mahoney]

I can make it peaceful.

[Jordan Robinson]

Right. And Patricia's saying, you simply can't. That's the sort of like Angel. Are these like the angel devil ideas that are gonna be in his head as he navigates whatever trolley problem, moral decision that he has to make in the finale.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm glad you brought up the trolley problem. Cause I feel like if you are on the side of Ruth needs to die to liberate the island. Couldn't you just not go help her and help her.

[Jordan Robinson]

Let the storm do its thing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let the storm kind of do its thing.

[Jordan Robinson]

We know where Rob stands. Rob would kill Ruth.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hard disagree. I would give my life for Ruth personally. But I'm saying if you are on that side of things, there is a very dangerous component right here in the community that they are even laying out. We need to go save Ruth from this. We need to bring her to the shelter.

[Jordan Robinson]

Well, it was a nicest. A nice way to establish. Ruth is early in the episode. Ruth is not here.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Jordan Robinson]

So whatever's going on with Ruth is going to be a secondary location that Tom and then, you know, the mob that you're predicting will have to go to.

[Rob Mahoney]

Did you find it odd at all? I think especially in an episode that was this short and maybe even this thin from a certain point of view that we don't see Ruth whatsoever. We don't get any flash to like, her at her house or anything.

[Jordan Robinson]

Like, what's she doing, do you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, napping, Trying to work some kind of technology and failing miserably. Like, it's not going well, I'm sure.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But we're talking a lot about Ruth and I feel like in a different kind of show there would be like a cut to Ruth at her house, doing whatever she's doing and cut back. Clearly the show is withholding that. And I wonder, like, what is. What is the dynamic that Tom is going to be walking into when he does get to her house? Presumably that's where he's going.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay, so you're like, is Ruth filming her onlyfans content?

[Rob Mahoney]

You know what? Live your life.

[Jordan Robinson]

If we've learned anything from Euphoria. Live your life. Couple things before we circle back to this Rosemary moment, which is just so incredible. The pre Rosemary presentation is Wick coming into our office. We get this like, really interesting whale blubber comment from Wick where he talks about this was the dominant industry of the island up until his. His father's time.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

So into the 20th century, and the captains, like, ruled the island, and we've had some indications of that of, like, you know, captains doing certain things to have their way does that. Is that setting up anything for this season? Is it setting up something for a future season? What do you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

I was really thrown by this. It was an odd bit of, like, focus. Like, we're gonna kind of bringing it up a couple different times in the episode, kind of framing things in this way.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, maybe there's a short term. Like, what's.

[Jordan Robinson]

What's the.

[Rob Mahoney]

The expiration date on whale blubber? Like, if there's some whale blubber down in the tunnels to. To work some torches, is that a thing that would still be functional after all these years?

[Jordan Robinson]

If you're a whaler prescription. Are you not a whaler press. You should [e-mail] to let us know how you. How one preserves. Like, can you just seal it in a jar like jam?

[Rob Mahoney]

So you're saying, I would presume it's kind of already preserved flubber. Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

No. All. All fats go rancid. You know this as a chef.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, sure, but they have a much longer shelf life.

[Jordan Robinson]

Stable shelf life. Yeah. Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

You can keep lard out on your counter for a long time.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay. And then did you freeze frame Mahoney on Rosemary's desk drawer?

[Rob Mahoney]

I did. I was most intrigued by the Diet Coke. The three Diet Coke cans. I couldn't tell whether they're empties or fulls. I tried, like, going with a.

[Jordan Robinson]

No, they're fulls.

[Rob Mahoney]

You think they were fulls based on the way they rock? This is what I was looking at. I was like, they feel full to me. Based on someone who has an unfortunately very intimate understanding of the weight and density of a Diet Coke can. So we're glad to welcome Rosemary to the team.

[Jordan Robinson]

I. When she pulled open the drawer, I was like, rob will probably freeze frame this, but I should do it just to. Just in case he doesn't. And then when I saw that the Diet Cokes were there, I was like, Rob certainly was all over this. Okay. My sister, you and Rosemary, she mentioned that it's a castle doctor in town. Do you know the difference between the castle doctrine and stand your ground?

[Rob Mahoney]

They feel of a feather to me.

[Jordan Robinson]

One needs to touch ground. Now, Castle doctrine only applies to your home, your vehicle, or sometimes your workplace.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Jordan Robinson]

And then stand your ground is anywhere.

[Rob Mahoney]

Stand your ground is anywhere. Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Any public place where you have a legal right to be. So you can't break into someone's home and claim stand your ground, but you can in the Walmart.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess I really underestimated how medieval Florida is.

[Jordan Robinson]

Stop. You would think Castle doctrine would be the more medieval.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

You would think.

[Jordan Robinson]

Then stand your ground. But stand your ground is.

[Rob Mahoney]

Holy shit.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. Tough. Really fucking tough. All right, let's get to Rosemary's presentation. She's smoking.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep. Gotta take a break. She's not.

[Jordan Robinson]

She's doing. She's smoking and presenting well.

[Rob Mahoney]

But she's got a break to light up.

[Jordan Robinson]

Oh, yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hold for dramatic effect while I light my cigarette.

[Jordan Robinson]

This is just so good. Like, all of her muttered aside. I just want to applaud Dale Dickey for this. I just think she's absolutely incredible. The first time I watched it, I was, like, a little impatient because I, like, wanted. I was eager to know the answer. And I was like, what are we doing? Come on. As are Tom and Wake and Patricia. But the second, third, fourth, fifth, however many times I've watched it since, I'm just marinating in every single delivery that she gives is so good. Do you want to. What are some of your highlights here?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, first of all, I think the performance is great. And not just hers, but the reaction shot Olympics that are happening among the other three characters. Really delightful. But structurally, like, from a writing standpoint, turning a, like Game of Thrones y Star Wars y kind of like lineage reveal into like. You know what? We could just say this. We could make this dramatic. We could give you a flashback sequence. And we kind of did. But also, what if we just do like, a full family, multigenerational family tree for a third of the runtime of this episode. It's a very funny thing to do. And yes, there is an impatience to it, but it's also so deeply funny. It's so funny, I think in part because of the bits. I mean, dead baby. Dead baby. Dead baby, lesbian.

[Jordan Robinson]

Happy pride.

[Rob Mahoney]

Happy pride to everybody out there. The whole, like, when he grows up, he won't be shooting blanks. He's a student.

[Jordan Robinson]

These jacka rabbits.

[Rob Mahoney]

Jacka rabbits. The family that swims together, drowns together. That actually does seem like it should be an expression.

[Jordan Robinson]

And that's the first inaugural swim, apparently. So they kept going after an entire family drowned together.

[Rob Mahoney]

I've seen Clarabelle's portrait. She thinks she's something.

[Jordan Robinson]

The first time she went through it and she said, the family that swims together, drowns together. I thought that was like an incest comment.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought so too, but then we

[Jordan Robinson]

got to the actual incest. She's like, none of my business unless I have children. In this case, they did. I mean, just like, everything was so funny. I wanna. I wish I had been like a fly in the wall when Dale Dickey breaking this down at home, figuring out how. Where she could find, like, milk. The most comedy out of this came up with jackarobbits as a pronunciation for jackrabbits. So funny. I. I thought this was like a masterpiece of comedy.

[Rob Mahoney]

A stuff.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I have a question for you, which is I've written down a couple of my favorite names from the family tree. I would like for you to select your favorite of these.

[Jordan Robinson]

Thank you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hezekiah Collington.

[Jordan Robinson]

Really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hollyoak Warren.

[Jordan Robinson]

Holly Oak Warren.

[Rob Mahoney]

Hard to beat.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And then the last is a two for Sophia the Heretic, who married Byron Fairclaw.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Which of those would you say is your favorite?

[Jordan Robinson]

Well, listen, Sofia the Heretic really made the best of it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Really did.

[Jordan Robinson]

Holly o' Gwarren really stood out to me. We did get an email about when we and all the other listeners were predicting that it was gonna be Evan. So the Warren family line passing down through Lauren.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Jordan Robinson]

One of our listeners is like, does that make her Lauren Warren? And, like, as we know, the Warren name is not involved in all this, but Lauren Warren is very funny.

[Rob Mahoney]

So, yeah, this whole sequence, I mean, again, it's just like punchline after punchline after punchline after punchline. And there was something about the specific delivery of. Next thing you know, your dad's dead and your stepmom is taking you on an adventure. Destination? Hell.

[Jordan Robinson]

Hell.

[Rob Mahoney]

That was very Chris Farley and Tommy Boy to me. When he's, like, giving his, like, over the top, like, running off the rails speeches, trying to sell these brake pads. There's and, like, I don't know of a higher compliment in comedy than I can give them that.

[Jordan Robinson]

I think also, you know, all of her very passive aggressive, like, stuff about Tom. I can't hear. I can't hear when the fan is on. This is usually when we just repeat Patricia jokes. But it's Rosemary.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's Rosemary's week.

[Jordan Robinson]

And then I think, oh, when she was like. She's like, all the kids died. A fascinating murder mystery. And then we don't have time. I hope we get that story in season two.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would love it.

[Jordan Robinson]

I hope we get some of these stories.

[Rob Mahoney]

Give us that Full flashback. The full murder mystery.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Did you connect at all with the person who has put a lot of work into a presentation and just wants everyone to know how much work you did?

[Jordan Robinson]

Rob, I think, you know, I did.

[Rob Mahoney]

I say this because I personally also have a little. We all have that in us.

[Jordan Robinson]

But Rosemary's cooler than I am because at the end I would have been like, did you like it? Was it good?

[Rob Mahoney]

You want the pat on the head in addition to the focus and patience?

[Jordan Robinson]

I really need. I really need. If I could be paid in affirmations, I would be.

[Rob Mahoney]

Guess what? You can leave your comments below. Hit Joe on social media.

[Jordan Robinson]

That's not how the Internet works. For all I tried, it's deformations from the Internet every single time. Um, one thing that we haven't really noted, but our listeners have been writing in for a couple weeks about, is that after the drug trip episode with the hand turkey sort of thing a lot of people have, if you rotate the hand turkey and sort of flip it, that's the shape of the Widow's Bay island.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, okay.

[Jordan Robinson]

No, it. It like really is. I mean, no, it like really is. And they keep showing that map.

[Rob Mahoney]

This was a little bit of a bridge too far for me.

[Jordan Robinson]

No, you're wrong. It's true.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think you've been on the lost island too long. I don't know about this one.

[Jordan Robinson]

On the sort of Jurassic Park Isla Nublar comp that we were bringing up last week, when they look at like the sort of. Is it a Doppler map? Is that what it is?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's a Doppler map.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah, the weather map.

[Rob Mahoney]

The overwhelming storm with the hand island.

[Jordan Robinson]

But that was very Jurassic Park. A storm's a coming sort of moment.

[Rob Mahoney]

The shape of those hand turkeys is so loose you could turn it and Rorschach it into literally anything.

[Jordan Robinson]

Google Image Search Widows Bay island mat.

[Rob Mahoney]

I've seen the side by sides and it's true. I am not so compelled to think

[Jordan Robinson]

that that is it Emma Ketchum or any other writer on Widow's Day.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm happy to be wrong. I just personally do not see it. Please prove wrong with a one to one synchron.

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[Jordan Robinson]

all right, can I talk a bit more about Storm of the Century?

[Rob Mahoney]

I would love it if you can

[Jordan Robinson]

write a few miniseries. Okay. Written for tv, so it's not based on a book. Stephen King wrote this for television. Stephen King miniseries. Like, you know, there's the it miniseries, which is quite famous. Salem's Lot, which is quite famous. I really remember. I think it was like the year or two before this. They did a shining miniseries because Stephen King famously hates the Kubrick movie. They did it with Steven Webber from Wings in the Jack Torrance role. Not what I would have picked.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Here we've got Tim Daly from Wings is the lead of this particular endeavor. A very young Julia Nicholson. Like, one of her very first roles is as one of the townspeople. Basically, what happens is, in classic Stephen King fashion, a mysterious man comes to town. This happens in needful things. This happens in the Stand, et cetera. Oh, the Stand miniseries, Also very good. Comes to town. He knows all of the dark secrets of everyone on this island. And he will just, like, say it to them. He'll be like, hey, remember when you gay bashed a man? He lost his eye. You should go see his paisley eye patch. Happy pride. Like, that's like, literally. That's one of the secrets that he unearths. He just, like, walks around and tells people. The first thing he does is he just kills the shit out of an old lady. I believe he beats her with his cane.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Jordan Robinson]

And so I was thinking a lot about Ruth when I was thinking about this old lady who dies right at the beginning of this. But what happens is he's.

[Rob Mahoney]

Old ladies are not a monolith.

[Jordan Robinson]

You're right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And how dare you, frankly.

[Jordan Robinson]

How do you go from patriarchy. Good, actually. To this. The world may never know. But after he's terrorized the town. And then Tim Daly's character, as is often the case in these Stephen King stories, is the sheriff, and he is the beacon of good and truth on this island. And he refuses to, like, get rid of this guy right away. He's like, due process. I believe in due process. But eventually there's this huge town meeting where this guy is played by Canadian actor Com fior, like, comes in and just, like, tells everyone in the town their various secrets. And then he's like, I have but one wish, and then I will go away and the storm will go away. I would like one of your children. Give me one of your children. I need to, like, I need to train up an apprentice. I need an heir to my demon ways.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Jordan Robinson]

And give me one of your children or else you'll go the way of Roanoke, the famed like, colony that disappeared. He's claiming that he's the one who made Roanoke disappear. He's like, so either give me one of your children, or I will take all of your children anyway. And you will all walk two by two into the sea. And Tim Daly, hero of the hour, is like, we can't do this for our souls. We cannot do this. And it's basically him against the entire town. And he's like, we don't know that he has these powers to do this. We don't know that he is, like, a supernatural evil. And if we make this decision to give up one of our children, like, how do we live with ourselves after? Which is the question that Patricia asks inside this episode. What does this say about us? His wife, however, is like, we gotta do it. We gotta give up a child. The twist is, sorry, spoilers for this thing. It's Tim Daly, and his wife's child is the one that gets taken. Cause the whole town votes, and they decide to give up a child. And then they draw lots. It's very much like Shirley Jackson's lottery. And it's his child. And then his child is taken. Yeah. And then the epilogue is about how he moves to San Francisco and, like, yada, yada, yada. Yes. And then, like, a bunch of people who survived this incident on the island wind up killing themselves anyway. Because how do you live with yourself after you've done this thing completely?

[Rob Mahoney]

And I imagine in very Stephen King fashion, you never quite know if that mysterious man had the demonic power to do what he said you do, because he's got, like.

[Jordan Robinson]

He's got fangs.

[Rob Mahoney]

But it's one thing to have fangs

[Jordan Robinson]

and another thing to be like, that comes to life.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm gonna make you all march two by two into the sea.

[Jordan Robinson]

I don't know if you could have done that. Yeah, it could have been like actors do on their cv when they're like, yeah, I can ride a horse. Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess I have to learn how to do it by shoot time.

[Jordan Robinson]

I could do that. That's fine. Um, so, yeah, Patricia kind of standing in for this sort of, like, Tim Daly voice of, like, we cannot do this for our souls sort of role. The accent work inside of this particular 1999 ABC miniseries is outstanding and fantastic. This is the same island that Dolores Claiborne takes place on, just as a fun fact. Anyway, we've had a lot of listeners write in about it. I thought it was, like, worth, you know, as every. Because I couldn't think of another sort of, like, horror Movie comp for this. A storm has come to the island and we have to make a choice to sacrifice one people for the greater good of the island. The greater good. Like, I couldn't think of a better comp than this. Did you. Did anything come to mind for you?

[Rob Mahoney]

I was in the same kind of quagmire because, yeah, most horror if it. I mean, to the extent you would even call it horror.

[Jordan Robinson]

There's the mist, which we've been talking about since the beginning, but even the

[Rob Mahoney]

mist is something like a little more monstrous. Like, you know, there is something within it that is very similar to Widow's Bay.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But is not strictly. There is a storm that could kill us. Right. It's not like in this case, even the mystical black tornado or cyclone feels like a demonic but weather event.

[Jordan Robinson]

Should we just call it a nor'? Easter? Because that's what they call it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Apparently. This is what a nor' Easter is.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

Nor'.

[Jordan Robinson]

Easter, Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I was kind of caught between, like, this isn't a pure weather disaster kind of story.

[Jordan Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And we have all these horror elements. Like, what is the midpoint of all of that? And I found myself in a similar space. I couldn't quite find that exact property. But you stumbled upon it. And a lot of our listeners did.

[Jordan Robinson]

Our listeners are the ones that flagged it for me. I completely missed this in 1999 when I was a senior in high school. Shout out the 90s when, like, Stephen King could write an original story for ABC that would air on Valentine's Day and two other nights. So fun fact.

[Rob Mahoney]

Where did that go for us? What do we have now that we. We traded that off for nothing. No despair. We just gave away our child. Nothing in return.

[Jordan Robinson]

Exactly.

[Rob Mahoney]

Brutal.

[Jordan Robinson]

Anything else we wanna talk about on

[Rob Mahoney]

that idea before we move on? The inversion of that concept of we're not treating a child, but we're treating this elderly woman potentially in her life, and we're doing it for the sake of our children. I think is a nice moral quandary to kind of riff on that idea. And this is another area where I'm just kind of waiting for that other shoe to drop. The kind of almost throwaway line from Bashir that he hasn't really told Shell about anything that's at stake yet. I mean, for one, she's definitely, like, starting to go in like it's Braxton Hicks.

[Jordan Robinson]

Don't worry about it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, we have penultimate contractions. This woman is going into labor in the finale baby. She does not yet know that her unborn Child would be like locked to this island for life.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would think that information has to come out and I would think that other people who are not quite aware of it would be upset by that information as well.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

About their own kids, to clarify.

[Jordan Robinson]

So for the finale, we have everyone's in the shelter except for Ruth and Tom.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Jordan Robinson]

P.J. glanville's there, the off island girls are there, Evan's there, et cetera. Do you believe Evan when he said, I won't go anywhere?

[Rob Mahoney]

To Tom, he did seem oddly agreeable,

[Jordan Robinson]

but seemed very earnest.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is.

[Jordan Robinson]

But they've had a, like, real. They really have.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, there are Sox games left in the season. It's an emergency. And it feels like maybe this teenager under these circumstances is actually willing to listen to his dad.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay. You think Bashir is going to. At least Bashir is going to find out about the stakes of what's going on.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think he already has an inclination, but he hasn't really shared with Shell anything that Patricia.

[Jordan Robinson]

But he doesn't know about the Warren Send it question.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think clearly more people are going to have to be aware of the potential trait in play here that someone. They may not know it's Ruth, but, like, someone will have to die or someone's will have to die. And we'll see how they all deal with it.

[Jordan Robinson]

We meet a couple different employees of the island. There's Kenny, who Rosemary will not let help pull the portrait off of Tom. A really funny. Okay, Emmy winner Jeff Hiller has not had a ton to do, but his delivery of like, poor Rosemary sciatica's acting up. We relate to her sciatica.

[Rob Mahoney]

Really? Really.

[Jordan Robinson]

That whole thing. She's like, tom, don't move.

[Rob Mahoney]

Your lung may be collapsed. Don't speak really funny.

[Jordan Robinson]

But we've got Kenny, who shows up and does a couple things. We already met Garrett at the lighthouse. I'm sure we've met Kenny before. Perhaps he's the one who talked to the trash can. I don't know the extent of Kenny's role. And then there's the guy on the radio.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

Who? Mitch, I believe Mitch, who says it's all crumbling.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's all going.

[Jordan Robinson]

It's all going.

[Rob Mahoney]

Something to that effect.

[Jordan Robinson]

So what's going? The island buildings in Storm of the Century. The lighthouse collapses into the ocean. Is Garrett's lighthouse going?

[Rob Mahoney]

I hope not, because I am not ashamed to admit the Garrett bit works on me every time. It's very funny.

[Jordan Robinson]

When he showed up in the window at town. It's really funny.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's very one note. But it's like you could play that note over and over and I will laugh at it.

[Jordan Robinson]

I was thinking about the. You know, when Patricia's like, people have died, Tom. I was thinking about who's died. Right. So Todd. We presume. Todd got sucked up into the nor'. Easter. I don't see how he survives that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Him and his tube socks.

[Jordan Robinson]

But great wire work. I thought. I thought it was really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

I also thought it was really good.

[Jordan Robinson]

Do you regret now? You know, you were sort of knocking Todd a little bit.

[Rob Mahoney]

It wasn't a knock. It was like the one part of the show that didn't feel as part of the show.

[Jordan Robinson]

And now it's been sucked up into a storm.

[Rob Mahoney]

Problem solved.

[Jordan Robinson]

You're welcome, Bob. You believe our gas station attendant is dead? Certainly. An EMT is dead. At least one EMT. How many EMTs can this island have? What do you think? The losing the one gas station attendant, an emt, and our drug dealer. Is the infrastructure of the island undercut in any kind of way?

[Rob Mahoney]

Drug dealer. I think drug dealer is undercutting his spiritualism personally.

[Jordan Robinson]

Is that cocaine?

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, maybe it's not all spiritual. Well, plus we got at least one of the sailors at the beginning that you alluded to in the cold open to the show, Shep. Yeah, so maybe a couple people around the edges, too, who have kind of disappeared into these various storms. That's half the commerce of the island.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah, I'm just like, worried about the. I mean, it's no longer a whale blubber centric economy.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're trying to thrive on tourism and putting all of these people's lives at risk in the process because they didn't deal with their deep seated hauntings. So let. Let that be a lesson to all of us.

[Jordan Robinson]

I did love this Rosemary sequence, obviously in this episode. It's one of my favorite things that's happened this season. I did feel like it kind of like, should that not have been Jerry's time to shine also? Jerry Historical Society. Would she not be the genealogy expert? But I guess that's Rosemary's job.

[Rob Mahoney]

I did think it was notable. The time for the white gloves is clearly over. We are just handling Sarah Warren's diary with all kinds of hands. Honestly, one of the, like, my favorite gags in this episode is when Patricia is explaining to Tom the connection between the finger and the diary while the

[Jordan Robinson]

portrait is still on him.

[Rob Mahoney]

While the portrait is on him and, like, is one foot away from him and throws it at him in A way that he just, like, cann even move. Bounces off his chest onto the floor. Yeah, the jokes. The jokes are still flying, but, yeah, no one seems to have much regard for conservatorship anymore.

[Jordan Robinson]

Anything else you want to predict for the finale or feel like? Like, well, here's the question. Well, we had been asking a question. Do we think someone's going to be sacrificed? And if Ruth dies, does that. Or does it need to be someone in that chair for you to feel like, you know, we got the sacrifice you were looking for?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, let me ask you this. Before we even get there, I mean, I talked about how I felt about Ruth being the secret Warren in general. How as someone, like, I would say you're even more theory inclined than I am. Did this feel both in who it was and how it was revealed, like a satisfying conclusion to that mystery for you?

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. And I think especially wondering how it's all gonna play out in the finale is interesting to me. Like Tom having to confront Ruth, and we've seen sort of their relationship all season. As Patricia says, like, you know, you often entrust your son to her. She might not be a great caretaker,

[Rob Mahoney]

but she says yes.

[Jordan Robinson]

So, like, yeah. And I really love that actress who's playing Ruth. So I think I'm really excited to see how this is all going to play out, you know, so that is interesting to me. The Evan stuff was still, like, incredibly compelling and interesting to me. And I'll be interested to see, like, if she does die in the finale by Tom's hand or anything else. Is that it? Is it over? Or is there more to come? Because we want a season, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 of this show.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think you're starting to feel it with Widow's Bay, like the Homeland style temptation of we have something. It works. I wouldn't say Ruth is like, as much of a dramatic lead, but the idea of putting the curse to rest would be putting to rest this version of the show. I don't know what you would do after that.

[Jordan Robinson]

I don't think they can do. I don't think they can wrap it. I don't think. I don't think they can wrap it all up in the finale because I think they want more seasons of this show. As do we.

[Rob Mahoney]

As do we.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

So either Ruth does not die or that the genealogy chart is not quite complete.

[Jordan Robinson]

You're besmirching Rosemary's work on the transparency on the overhead projector.

[Rob Mahoney]

30 minutes. And a lot of that was just marker on transparency.

[Jordan Robinson]

Well, I will Say Patricia said she might already have that genealogy, so she might have had a lot of that already written out.

[Rob Mahoney]

Written out though.

[Jordan Robinson]

Maybe on transparency.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just waiting for her moment.

[Jordan Robinson]

Her penmanship is excellent. If she had to. If I had to like rush that present, though, she was in no rush. But if I had to like whip together that presentation, my penmanship would not have been as good.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't think any of ours would have been.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

It was sterling all around. The pacing, the thunder crashes dramatically speaking. She had it all worked out.

[Jordan Robinson]

Also the score this season. Yeah. Also like, I guess. Cause she would have had to photocopy Ruth's like City hall badge onto a transparency.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also her like, while the power is a precious resource.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. Also her like, what was it like Miss Widow's Bay 1959 or whatever. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Shout out to Ruth.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah, shout out to Rosemary.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's lived a life, she's doing her thing. I will say this was a.

[Jordan Robinson]

Would you kill an old woman to save your.

[Rob Mahoney]

I already said no. I. I'd be out there trying to.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah. I thought I would hit you again and see if your answer had changed now that we've talked about it.

[Rob Mahoney]

It has not changed. I know how you feel about killing old women, but not all of us feel that way.

[Jordan Robinson]

I don't know. For the whole island.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Jordan Robinson]

Actually, no. Here's what I would have done.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Jordan Robinson]

I would tell Ruth and I would say.

[Rob Mahoney]

You want to guilt trip Ruth?

[Jordan Robinson]

No. Give her an option.

[Rob Mahoney]

You don't have to do it. No worries.

[Jordan Robinson]

If not, the whole island depends on.

[Rob Mahoney]

But you could commit suicide. But depends on.

[Jordan Robinson]

You could save the whole island. It's your choice.

[Rob Mahoney]

Would you save the whole island if it was you?

[Jordan Robinson]

Yes. If I had lived as long as Ruth had lived. That's easy. I think.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, she might have a lot left to do.

[Jordan Robinson]

I'm sure she does.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, I just feel like we're being very presumptuous about Ruth's life.

[Jordan Robinson]

Prestigv Spotify this is the trolley problem.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is the trolley problem.

[Jordan Robinson]

Prestigioustify.com if you have a strong opinion one way or another about what you would do if you were Ruth or if you were off to murder Ruth.

[Rob Mahoney]

Um.

[Jordan Robinson]

Anything else you want to say?

[Rob Mahoney]

Here's one thing I do feel strongly about. This was the end. At least as far as I could see of it. Of broach watch. No.

[Jordan Robinson]

Oh. Because Ruth, I mean, what else is

[Rob Mahoney]

it going to tell us that we don't already know? Unless there is a second warren out there who has this brooch but we even get a close up on it.

[Jordan Robinson]

Are you putting Evan back on the. On the table?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm not putting anything back on the table.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

To me, it's just like we've had so many indications, including within this episode in the flashback of like, let's zoom in on this brooch. And then the reveal, we're just gonna tell you over a transparency slide, which may just be kind of like a misdirect. And haha, this is funny. Fair enough. But we were just kind of waiting to see that brooch on somebody or in somebody's desk drawer or like dresser or whatever. I don't know what it would do for us at this point that we don't already know.

[Jordan Robinson]

So if it's just at Ruth's house, you're like, what's the point?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I don't know that we needed all that.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay. And now our brooch watch has ended.

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess a real misdirect. We have to keep the lighthouse on just in case.

[Jordan Robinson]

What if it's crumbled to the sea already?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, then we're officially fin because of a cyclone and.

[Jordan Robinson]

Or a tornado.

[Rob Mahoney]

Too many disasters at play.

[Jordan Robinson]

I feel like we did it.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, this is already longer than the episode.

[Jordan Robinson]

We'll be back for Cape Fear. I'm really excited for the finale. I'll be really sad when this is over.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very much so.

[Jordan Robinson]

I don't know if you've experienced this, but I just. Like we already mentioned earlier in the season, but I just have really been feeling like every week the noise around this show has been growing and growing and growing and growing and people are just like completely obsessed about it and are you watching it? Et cetera, et cetera. So I don't exactly know what the numbers are, but this feels like. And you know, on the heels of Pluribus, which was a great hit for Apple, obviously the severance phenomenon. Like, I've sometimes made fun of like the Apple TV programming in the past because like, sometimes it can be spotty, but like it's been hidden lately. If they're finding their lanes, if they're like we're doing, they're finding their brand. Like originally they were just sort of like, we've got Oprah and Steven Spielberg and Reese Witherspoon and like that's who we have. Right? And now if they're like, we do weird little sci fi things, you know, and they try to do big sci fi ip, right, like foundation and stuff like that. But like, if they're like, we've Got Severance and Pluribus and Widow's Bay, these incredibly original, like, fun, quirky theory shows, et cetera, et cetera. We've got your summertime trash trapeze theater. We found an. We found a paperback at an airport.

[Rob Mahoney]

Certainly did.

[Jordan Robinson]

That was once made into a great movie, and now we're gonna make it into a weird TV show, and we got some actors you wouldn't believe to be in it.

[Rob Mahoney]

There are bodily fluids on these pages you don't even want to ask questions about.

[Jordan Robinson]

So, you know, and then whatever else may come. So, like, I think. I think those two things have been quite successful for them. And we'll see what else. There's a bunch of shows on Apple that don't feel like they exist, but there are some that are really breaking through in a more consistent way.

[Rob Mahoney]

I wonder, in the former category, as we're kind of lumping this with a Severance or a Pluribus or shows like that, how this particular episode will land with the people who have been loving Widow's Bay. Because for me, I'm gonna be honest, like, this show does not hang on its mysteries. For me, they're a fun seasoning little side project. But, like, I'm here for the horror. I'm here for the goofs. I'm here for the character work. All that stuff is kind of front and center, and then I'm just kind of intrigued by what's around the corner. But if you have been living and dying with the background of every frame, and I think the show has largely rewarded that. And Ruth is the secret Warren, and you feel underwhelmed by that revelation. I'm just. I'm eager to see how people take

[Jordan Robinson]

this episode well, but I feel like people will be underwhelmed no matter what. That's just the nature of the. Of the.

[Rob Mahoney]

Of the human existence of the Reddit.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yes. And of the Reddit detectives. Because, like, if it had been Evan, and they would have been like, yeah, we figured that out, like, weeks ago.

[Rob Mahoney]

So the most underwhelming thing is being right.

[Jordan Robinson]

Can be, yeah. Or, you know, yeah. Or there's some satisfaction. I figured it out, and I was right. There's that if it's like a completely. The thing that's great about Ruth is sometimes in a theory show, the answer is not what the breadcrumbs have been laid towards. Right. So it's not that, but it's so far afield thinking in some of the later Westworld seasons that it's just very clear that the showrunner was so intent on outsmarting the people watching the show that they came up with an answer that does not really make logical sense. But Ruth makes. This is a character who has been here. Yep.

[Rob Mahoney]

And right under our noses.

[Jordan Robinson]

Right under our noses. And I think it's an interesting question of, like, what would you do if an elderly, unmarried doesn't have children? Woman, you know, versus a real spinster. Yeah. True. A true old maid.

[Rob Mahoney]

A true old maid. But so really, I think what you're articulating is like, you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you still might find you get what you need.

[Jordan Robinson]

What you need. What did you. What did you hear on the spooky radio? Sounds that were playing when Tom was going out to the lighthouse, mostly, that

[Rob Mahoney]

he couldn't turn his volume down, which sounds like my personal nightmare. Like, no volume control. Like I don't even know what's going to come out of. But I have no control over it. Horrifying.

[Jordan Robinson]

I don't know what the second song was, but I'm pretty sure I think the first song was Bohemian Rhapsody because I heard Any Way the Wind Blows. Oh, but I don't know that I. If I were Apple, I would pay for Bohemian Rhapsody just for a garbled radio sort of sound.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, how much do you have to pay for rights? If it is a sliver of a snippet that has been manipulated, I wonder

[Jordan Robinson]

if you could find a cover.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is there a rights case of Bohemian

[Jordan Robinson]

Rhapsody and just garble that into the radio or just have someone.

[Rob Mahoney]

Freddie and the Mercury's tribute band covering Bohemian Rhapsody.

[Jordan Robinson]

Exactly. The vampire Lestat does Bohemian Rhapsody.

[Rob Mahoney]

Incredible.

[Jordan Robinson]

Anyway, if you heard what those songs were. Or Emma Ketchum, if you want to let us know. Freddy [e-mail], let's wrap it up. We did it. We're back with Cape Fear. We're back with a finale. We. Okay. Should we. Let's announce it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay.

[Jordan Robinson]

Why not? We do want to say for the widows of a finale, we're not sure yet if we're going to do it live. If we do wind up doing live like we did for the Euphoria finale. Watch our socials. We will announce.

[Rob Mahoney]

We will definitely let you know.

[Jordan Robinson]

Yeah, yeah. But we're not sure yet. It depends on the NBA playoffs. Finals. Sorry.

[Rob Mahoney]

Unfortunately, as does literally everything in my life.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just like will this series go to six games determines my entire schedule in existence.

[Jordan Robinson]

Here are things I know. Okay. The Knicks.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Jordan Robinson]

The Spurs.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Jordan Robinson]

Wemby sure. The spurs one. So the Knicks will not get it in four.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's true.

[Jordan Robinson]

But they could get it in five.

[Rob Mahoney]

They could.

[Jordan Robinson]

And Timothy Chalamet among many others would be very excited if they did.

[Rob Mahoney]

As would at least one Safdie brother. As would Spike Lee.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

As Ben Stiller.

[Jordan Robinson]

Sarah Michelle Geller, is she a Knicks fan? She posted a photo of her and Freddie Prinze Jr. In like the 90s at a Knicks game. And she's like, Knicks Fan Day 1. They're my hometown team. I was like, all right, a little bandwagon of smg, but okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

And Hathaway, legit.

[Jordan Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, it's, it's a star studded

[Jordan Robinson]

row over there which stars are rooting for the Spurs.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, it's not a deep list. I don't have anyone Chase Serrano, you know, San Antonio, it's a different caliber of thing out there. But you know what, that's why I don't have Donald Trump showing up to their game. So you win some, you lose some.

[Jordan Robinson]

I think that's a real win. I'll trade all the Chalamet's in the sea for no Donald Trump in my game. Okay. Thank you to whale blubber.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Always preserved or not.

[Jordan Robinson]

Thank you to three very full cans of Diet Coke in the back of a drawer. Thank you to Rob Mahoney.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you Joe.

[Jordan Robinson]

Thanks to Dev Ronaldo. Thanks to Kai Grady. Thanks Jacob Cornette. And we'll see you soon for Cape Fear. Bye.

[Columbia Brand Voice]

You can't reason with the sun. Trust us, we've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's Omnishade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless. But so is our gear. Level up your [e-mail] to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome. Columbia engineered for whatever.