Rob Mahoney (1:28)

Why didn't anyone tell us?

Jordan Robinson (1:30)

Uh, that's what its secrets are for, I guess. We're here to cover Widow's Bay episodes one through three. We asked, y' all answered. You wanted us to cover Widow's Bay. We were, of course, covering Euphoria all month. We were like, what else? What else should we be watching? And Widow's Bay is just a fun show. A comedy horror show. If you haven't seen it on. On good old Apple. And we're gonna be checking in sporadically, I will say that's what I want to commit to.

Rob Mahoney (1:56)

That's a plan.

Jordan Robinson (1:57)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob Mahoney (1:58)

But. But I mean, can I tell you and our listeners a secret?

Jordan Robinson (2:01)

Joe, please.

Rob Mahoney (2:02)

Even if they hadn't emailed us in spades, and they did, I think I would have demanded that we cover the show in some form. After watching a couple of them, you preempted my demand with your demand.

Jordan Robinson (2:12)

Yes.

Rob Mahoney (2:12)

So we like to give people the illusion of power, Right? Like this is a democracy, but let's be real about it. You want to go to Widow's Bay?

Jordan Robinson (2:19)

Rob got so excited that when. When I, like, texted you last week, you're like, but what if we record, like, tomorrow? I was like, let's calm down.

Rob Mahoney (2:26)

I was proposing frankly irresponsible recording schedules. But the show has very jazzed. I'm really loving it so far.

Jordan Robinson (2:32)

When did you. So spoilers, I guess up through episode three. If you guys haven't watched up through episode three, that's what we're gonna be talking about. We're kind of, you know, it's a. It's a 30 minute plus comedy horror show. It's not necessarily our usual prestige TV fare. So there isn't, I don't know, as much thematic density or something like that as some of the other shows we've covered.

Rob Mahoney (2:54)

Sure.

Jordan Robinson (2:55)

So we're gonna do some of our. What we do sometimes on these little like binge drop check ins is we're gonna have some categories that we're gon towards the end. But we did want to have a general discussion. PressTvotify.com is how you can email us for this show. We're not creating a special email for the show yet.

Rob Mahoney (3:11)

Those are the rules.

Jordan Robinson (3:11)

But PressTvotify.com if you have suggestions for categories we should do. I feel like our listeners are really, really good at those. So if you guys have categories that we should check in on the future check ins for Widow's Bay, let us know. When did you Rob Mahoney? Other than me texting you, being like, I regret to inform you, Widow Widows Bay slaps. When did you know you were in on Widow's Bay?

Rob Mahoney (3:33)

I mean, the opening of episode one is like appropriately spooky and frankly like doing horror on TV is such a tough enterprise and it's so difficult, I think, just to get people in their living rooms to feel it, to feel the tension. And so I was on board with that. But I think it's when Tom gets to City hall for the first time and we start seeing the cast of characters who are working there. It's like oh, this is like on like the patter is like on a rhythm that I'm like really resonating with. And so even if the show turns out not to be spooky and scary in the ways I might like or that it's trying to be, it's at least gonna be really funny.

Jordan Robinson (4:06)

I do wanna give our producer Kai Grady some credit. Cause he's been on the Widow's Bay beat. Like, hey, did you guys see this trailer? Hey, what do you guys think of this show? So shout out. Kai. I will say I feel like starring Matthew Rhys is where they really got me. That's where they really got me.

Rob Mahoney (4:20)

Co starring Steven Root.

Jordan Robinson (4:21)

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. But this is from Katie Dippold, who worked on Parks and Recreation. You can really tell, and that's a compliment inside of this show. As you said, the City Hall. The people who work at City hall are just, like, extremely fun characters. And, like, two. I don't know what your experience was. Freeze frame, Mahoney. But, like, all of the chalkboards in the background just sort of, like, zooming in on what is on there. I didn't see anything unusual. It's all business.

Rob Mahoney (4:44)

It's all straight business.

Jordan Robinson (4:46)

Repair the curb and, like, paint this and move the tree. Wi Fi was one of the agenda items, actually.

Rob Mahoney (4:53)

This is one of the strengths of the show, though, is, like, they play everything so straight for the most part. And I think it walks this really delicate balance between. There's people at City hall, there's all these townspeople. They are regularly saying insane shit about what happens in this town. Yes, of course, we learn over the course of these three episodes, some of it's not so insane and seems, like, actually quite real and haunted. But, like, Tom, he's so clearly dismissive of it, but he doesn't stop to, like, dress everybody down. It's just like, they say the crazy thing. We keep it moving. We're back to business. It's like, it manages to be horror and comedy because it never really has jokes at the expense of the horror that much. Like, it doesn't feel like a spoof or a parody. It just feels like a very funny horror show.

Jordan Robinson (5:34)

And even when it gets, like, walks right up to the edge. Like, I would say when Steven Root's character Wick, is, like, explaining the lore of the Sea Hag in episode three, and he's like, she comes into your bed and sits on your face. Yeah, like, that's right up the edge.

Rob Mahoney (5:46)

I'm gonna.

Jordan Robinson (5:47)

That's, like, right up the edge of, like, you know, I think it's worth applying some of the lessons I feel like we learned when we did our Hooked series where we were looking at pilots versus other episodes that really get you into a show. And I would say for Widow's Bay, the pilot is the Hooked episode, because this is one of the best pilots I've ever seen. And some of the tactics that are used here is we have a newcomer to this location in the New York Times, writer Arthur. Right. So we're explaining things to Arthur. We get to go to the Historical Society. You know, there's just, like, a lot to explain to him. We explained to him that cell phones don't work here. We don't have wifi. All this stuff and all of that. And this is the, like, rewatchables category. I keep trying to make a thing which is like, a cell phone would ruin this movie. Like, cell phones and wifi and the connected nature of our society now would ruin the premise of this. If Tom could snap a photo of the Sea Hag and like, text it to someone that's, you know, do you know her? Have you seen this woman? Like, that's a completely different thing. And so.

Rob Mahoney (6:48)

Well, also, it deflates just the classic horror problem, right? Like, in addition to. There's the TV issue and then there's the horror issue. And this is kind of resolving both in one fell swoop.

Jordan Robinson (6:56)

So we have all of that. That's clever. And then there's the momentum of the first episode because Tom is in this manic state all episode, and he's just kind of running from one location to the other, frantically trying to be a dad to his son, be a mayor to this town, but he hates the town. But then we kind of realize why he's there, and we can talk about that a bit. Trying to impress this writer. And so there's just so much energy inside of a lot of exposition inside of just like, some fun, spooky, fog revenant stuff that is just like. I was so deeply impressed by this pilot.

Rob Mahoney (7:29)

I think it's so spot on, Joe. And the point of view of having the New York Times writer parachute in and explain, have things explained to him is so helpful for us as an audience. I also think having Tom as an inherent skeptic and us as an inherent skeptic, the first time we see Wick, it's like all. It plays for comedy. But everything he's saying turns out to be true, by and large.

Jordan Robinson (7:51)

Full kook. Full kook territory. Full kook.

Rob Mahoney (7:53)

Until he, unfortunately is 100% right.

Jordan Robinson (7:55)

Is he more of a kook or more of a kooten? Like, what do you think?

Rob Mahoney (7:58)

What's the distinction?

Jordan Robinson (7:59)

I don't know. Coot, I think, probably implies like an old coot is like.

Rob Mahoney (8:03)

I'm be honest with you. I try to never say the word coot.

Jordan Robinson (8:06)

Yeah. It's just too tough.

Rob Mahoney (8:07)

We're walking a line that I don't think is comfortable for anybody involved.

Jordan Robinson (8:10)

It sort of irresistibly rhymes with root and I'm sort of drawn to it. But we can stick with kook. That's fine. Sorry, you were saying? I interrupted you.

Rob Mahoney (8:16)

Just that. Similarly, as we're introduced to the Town. I mean, genuinely, who knows? But as we're introduced to the town and all its mysteries, we're also anchored in our own pessimism of, like, clearly all this stuff is fake. But then we are shown piece by piece by piece. Oh, wait, this fog is messed up. Oh, wait, it is gonna turn this guy's eyes white and give him delirium and presumably impair his boner. It's tough to hear.

Jordan Robinson (8:39)

Tough. Tough for that guy Shep. Poor Shep.

Rob Mahoney (8:42)

37 year old Shep.

Jordan Robinson (8:44)

That doesn't seem right. Okay, so these are the facts that help explain why a character like Tom is here. Character who seems to hate this place. Straight up, we found out he ran unopposed for the office of mayor.

Rob Mahoney (8:59)

Are we too intuit by this point? Is your assumption the same as mine, that Wick is the former mayor of the town?

Jordan Robinson (9:04)

Oh, I don't know. Interesting.

Rob Mahoney (9:05)

There's a lot of allusions to. Wick has been through a lot. And when Tom and Wick start getting into it, at first there's the implication like, oh, this is a personal thing between them. And so I'm kind of wondering if Wick suffered some kind of tragedy, resigned or left as mayor, and Tom then ran unopposed.

Jordan Robinson (9:19)

Did you have a theory for a second that Wick might be his dad?

Rob Mahoney (9:24)

No.

Jordan Robinson (9:24)

Okay.

Rob Mahoney (9:25)

Does that even make sense?

Jordan Robinson (9:26)

No. Well, it doesn't make sense when, after we hear Wick tell the doorbell ditching story. Well, sure, but before that, I was just sort of like, this could be his dad. Like when people are estranged from their parents, they might call them by their first name, and it might be Steven Root. Oh, I don't know. But I'm willing to consider. We can look it up right now. Hold on.

Rob Mahoney (9:45)

Okay, let's do a little real time fact checking.

Jordan Robinson (9:47)

Okay. Stephen Root. He's older. An older gentleman. He's 74.

Rob Mahoney (9:52)

Okay. I mean, Matthew Reese is 51.

Jordan Robinson (9:54)

Okay.

Rob Mahoney (9:54)

So I honestly spot on. But Steven Rood, looking great for 74.

Jordan Robinson (9:59)

Oh, spry.

Rob Mahoney (10:00)

Come on.

Jordan Robinson (10:00)

Spry. So, Tom, we learned in the first episode, you know, this idea that if you're born on the island and you leave the island, you die. And even though Tom sort of brushes that off, we find out later that Evan has never left the island. Not even for Boston, not even for Bastin. So. So is he. Is Tom. Does Tom feel trapped on this island? Because he cannot. He is a single dad, a widower, raising his son. Yep. Cannot leave the island because he cannot leave with his son. And so might as well try to turn the island into.

Rob Mahoney (10:37)

Into Something.

Jordan Robinson (10:37)

The next Cape Cod.

Rob Mahoney (10:38)

The next Martha's Vineyard.

Jordan Robinson (10:39)

The next. Next Martha's Vineyard.

Rob Mahoney (10:40)

The next Bar Harper, perhaps.

Jordan Robinson (10:41)

Hell, yeah. Fancy. Ooh. You know, so, like, that seems to be the premise. And I love that as, like, we get these. You know, one might sit at home and say, why would this guy be on this island if he hates it so much? Or, why would this guy be mayor if he hates it so much? And if he's like, this is the only way I can figure out how to improve my, like, life experience on this island if I'm trapped here because I love my son and I can't abandon him here and I can't risk taking him to shore because I don't know what's going to happen to him.

Rob Mahoney (11:10)

Because. And the key part is that. That even some part of Tom believes that. Right?

Jordan Robinson (11:14)

But when it comes to Evan, he's not willing. Like, it's like he's not willing to risk it.

Rob Mahoney (11:17)

Not willing to risk it. But also, we do learn that he came back to the island to take care of his sick father.

Jordan Robinson (11:22)

Right.

Rob Mahoney (11:23)

Who did it seemed like, buy a lot of the lore and the mystery and the curse of the island. And so there's that, like, what if my dad was a little bit right? I mean, there's just a lot of fathers and sons happening.

Jordan Robinson (11:33)

Also, his wife died from complications from childbirth. But, like, do we know that full story? I don't know.

Rob Mahoney (11:40)

We certainly don't. A lot of full stories, a lot of ghouls and creeps to come.

Jordan Robinson (11:44)

So all of these are questions that are running around on the whole. Something that I thought was really interesting is you watch the first episode, you're like, there's a lot of comedy here. There's some horror here. Obviously, when Shep goes full revenant, it is a little scary.

Rob Mahoney (11:57)

Yeah.

Jordan Robinson (11:58)

But it's not until we're in the crawl space in episode two and there's a clown bearing down upon us that I was like, oh, no, this is for real scary. They're doing real horror.

Rob Mahoney (12:08)

These aren't fucking around hours.

Jordan Robinson (12:10)

So what's your level of comfort with horror? Have we talked about this?

Rob Mahoney (12:13)

I don't know that we really have. I think part of the reason we probably haven't talked about it is it's not like my go to genre. Is it yours?

Jordan Robinson (12:20)

No, but I don't. I'm not opposed to it in any way. No.

Rob Mahoney (12:24)

I would say I usually get backdoored into it. Like, I'm not particularly drawn to horror, but I love sci fi and so that gets you into like Alien and the Thing and stuff like that. And I'm not like seeking out horror, but I love suspense and I love a thriller. And so then you're into Halloween and stuff like that. And I think I need that kind of like side door appeal. Often with a horror movie, whether it's like quote unquote elevated horror or some theme or some idea or some actor, I really love this has a lot of that. It also has what I am dubbing cottage horror. Like a particular brand I don't think is quite robust. We're adjacent to cabin horror for sure. This is not that. This is not purely in the woods where by the sea. It's kind of cozy, it's kind of quaint, but also a little horrific.

Jordan Robinson (13:06)

Okay, A little like, yeah, cozy, foggy horror.

Rob Mahoney (13:09)

The one comp I could think of was. And I have very different feelings watching these two things because this is, what I'm about to say is nowhere near as funny as this show is. But Men. Did you see the movie Men?

Jordan Robinson (13:19)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob Mahoney (13:20)

Just, just that kind of like sweaters off on your own. It's chill in the air.

Jordan Robinson (13:26)

It's lore horror for sure. You know, it's like, like a little Lovecraftian almost. Yeah, absolutely. I would say Lovecra in the mix here. The sea hag, here she is from the sea. But yeah, like it's where they come from. It's very like mythic folk horror. That's what, that's, that's the term I'm circling and that's the term. I think that got used a lot when Men came out was this idea of folk horror. And so I, I'm not a huge, like, I'm not, you know, horror itself is not going to get me to the theater. The first it movie was a challenge for me, but in general, I don't think I'm that squeamish in general. And you know, I have a lot of people in my life who cannot handle horror at all. I don't love like torture horror like Saw or the Hills have Eyes and stuff like that. Like, that's not for me. It's not like, that's not the thrill or the chill that I'm seeking.

Rob Mahoney (14:20)

You're not gonna be on the Martyrs rewatchables.

Jordan Robinson (14:22)

No, it's not me. It's not me. But I did spend a summer when I was in college. Like a bunch of us did summer sessions. So we were there all summer and we watched like all of the 70s classic horror just every week we watched another one and so it was like a fun project. Just be like, what's the Omen about? What's the Exorcist about? What's, you know, what's the Shining about? Like, just sort of knock it all out. And I would say that 70s horror is most apparently influential here. We've got Widow's Bay. The font is a very Stephen King adjacent font. And the person that I'm thinking about most when watching this is Mike Flanagan, who's done a lot of horror series for Netflix, done some great Stephen King adaptations. Doctor Sleep was a criminally underrated. Like, one of the best Stephen King adapters, I would say, is Mike Flanagan. And he did a show that I know I've talked to you about, which is Midnight Mass. And the reason Midnight Mass keeps coming up is that it is an island based story where something happens at this community. But the question of, like, are the fairies running? Is the fog visible? We are trapped on this island when things go to shit. Yeah, the electricity's out. There's like one guy who can fix it. All of that stuff is so present in that story and so present here. And it is such a good framework for a horror setting to just be like, we're trapped here if something goes wrong.

Rob Mahoney (15:47)

You know, I mean, it taps into so many elemental horror tropes in that way. Like, all of it. Like, you're really not that far from a summer camp horror movie when you're on an island that needs to be separated by water, where you need the fairies, where you need all these mechanisms, like, you just need those strictures a little bit to start putting us into a place where we actually feel as modern people with all of our modern devices, like, genuinely backed into a corner.

Jordan Robinson (16:10)

Yeah, I love that. Very Jurassic Park. You know, of course, you know, the boats aren't running. Someone turned the electricity on, powers out. What are we going to do? Any other influences that you were thinking about when you were watching this?

Rob Mahoney (16:21)

I mean, I think Jaws is a huge one. Like the Amity island stuff is like the structure of episode one in a lot of ways is Jaws, right? Someone shows up warning you, like, this terrible thing is coming or happening. But we couldn't possibly, because we need the tourists to come to the beach. That is the fundamental tension of Jaws and the fundamental tension of this show. I think maybe the difference is Widow's Bay is maybe even more desperate than Amity island is. This is a town that needs saving and so there's an existential threat beyond all the ghosts out there.

Jordan Robinson (16:52)

Yeah, I think the sort of logline that I saw floating around a lot is people are like, what if the mayor from Jaws, like, definitely knew about the shark, you know what I mean, and just sort of, like, kept the COVID up. Yeah, exactly.

Rob Mahoney (17:04)

Which I kind of think the mayor from Jaws also knew he might have.

Jordan Robinson (17:07)

Yeah. So the first episode, very, very Jaws adjacent. Second episode, very shining. Right. We're in a haunted hotel of some kind. I think the New Year's Eve party noise especially is, like, invoking a shining, uh, seahag on the Sea Hag front. Any sort of specific inspo that you can think of?

Rob Mahoney (17:24)

Maybe I'm just not fluent enough in Seahag horror.

Jordan Robinson (17:26)

Maybe you need to get up on. Brush up on your hags.

Rob Mahoney (17:28)

But you know what? The hag was refreshing because of it.

Jordan Robinson (17:32)

I also love the way that it plays with our expectations. Like, I really like the way that they put the haunted hotel and the Sea Hag back to back. Because when Tim Balls, who's a great comedic actor, shows up as William in episode two, and I was like, that's a ghost, right?

Rob Mahoney (17:49)

Clearly a ghost.

Jordan Robinson (17:49)

He shows up with a short sleeve, white button out. I'm like, that guy's from the 50s. Like, that's a ghost, right? 50s or 60s. But then he says the thing about the cappuccino machine. So then you're like, oh, but wait, is that not a ghost? And they play. They played enough. I was like, but no, that's a ghost. You know, they played enough with your expectations there. But then you get to episode three, and you're like, that's the Sea Hag man. Be careful and don't let her sit on your face. And then he's like, I love the moment where he feels like he's figured it out and he does it at the dinner and he's just like, I gotta. I gotta go. And he doesn't, like, he doesn't overplay it, but he's just sort of like, I'm with you, audience. I too think this is.

Rob Mahoney (18:26)

I am suspicious.

Jordan Robinson (18:27)

Yeah. And then it's not. And that's just like a really fun sort of. But I was also doing this mental calculus where I was like, they wouldn't do that two episodes in a row. So, like, maybe she's not the same.

Rob Mahoney (18:35)

Maybe that's what they want you to.

Jordan Robinson (18:35)

But, like, that's. That's the constant game of Widow's Bay, it seems.

Rob Mahoney (18:38)

I do think part of what I'm enjoying so much about these first three episodes is there is that every Turn every development, every new introduction of a potential scary thing.

Jordan Robinson (18:47)

Right.

Rob Mahoney (18:48)

Or even just like, on a line delivery level, there's always, like, one layer below. I'm sure there's some surface level stuff we'll bump into along the way. Like, it's a long season, Things have to keep moving on their chains. But I think a lot about Wick having contempt for Tom, not because of the doorbell ditching, but because he was too much of a coward to actually doorbell ditch. And it's like, as that line is being delivered, you are so much with Tom. Like, are you kidding me? Let's talk about this thing when he was a kid. And I feel like every element of the story has that. Where there's always one thing to subvert, to challenge, to put you on your back foot a little bit. As far as even what these characters are, where it's like you're turning a joke into something real or you're turning something scary into a joke. And I think that's part of why the show can balance those so well.

Jordan Robinson (19:31)

Yeah, I'll be curious to see how those tones are balanced throughout the rest of the season. These first three episodes are directed by Hiromirai, which is, like, an incredible get. Is there anything you want to say specifically about Hiramurai before we talk about some of the other directors this season?

Rob Mahoney (19:47)

Only within the context of these three episodes. I want to say, like, I think. I think directing horror is such a specific skill set, and it's so clear that not everyone can do it. And it's so clear. Like, the tension building and holding is, I just think, immensely challenging to do on television, as we talked about up top. And so the fact that these, especially 2 and 3, do have moments of real, genuine horror and tension on the edge of your seat kind of watching. Yeah, I'm just. I'm blown away by that execution as much as anything.

Jordan Robinson (20:12)

Were you an Atlanta guy?

Rob Mahoney (20:14)

Like, I actually have not seen it all the way through. Okay, so, I mean, look, add it to the list of blind spots. We gotta do some catching up.

Jordan Robinson (20:20)

But I do think that, like, unusual balance of, like, comedy, the comedy tone, where you're sort of like, should I be laughing right now? I'm not sure. And all the other things that Atlanta had to offer that Hiramurai did such great work on. Ty west is also directing an episode this season. And Andrew DeYoung, who? Our flag means death. The Chair Company friendship. So, like, that's a comedy guy. Andrew DeYoung, Ty west horror guy.

Rob Mahoney (20:48)

The Chair Company is not a pure comedy.

Jordan Robinson (20:50)

Yeah, you're right. I don't watch the Chair Company but

Rob Mahoney (20:52)

like, it may have more in common this than you think.

Jordan Robinson (20:55)

But like, but more comedy than not, like, associated with our flag means death and like things that are thought of as comedic and then Ti west is like a horror. Horror director. So like, are those two episodes going to be more comedic and more horror adjacent or something like that? I don't know.

Rob Mahoney (21:11)

I can't wait to find out.

Jordan Robinson (21:12)

I'm really excited to find out. Anything else you want to say sort of in a big picture way about the show?

Rob Mahoney (21:16)

I mean, I guess, like, where are you on ghosts? Where are you on Hags? Like, are you a superstitious person in these respects at all?

Jordan Robinson (21:23)

It's tough because I have a lot of friends who believe in ghosts and I, I don't really, but I believe. I don't know.

Rob Mahoney (21:30)

Wow, this is, this is really holding your feet to the fire.

Jordan Robinson (21:33)

It's tough. Well, it's like, it's like when someone talks to you about their religion and you're like, I don't want to. Like, like whenever they talk to me about, I have a couple really close friends who are like, I can sense that someone died here or I can sense this, that or the other thing. And it's not something I believe. But I've never liked. That's bullshit. I'm always like, tell me what that feels. You know what I mean? Like, I just sort of like listen to it.

Rob Mahoney (21:55)

You're curious, you're open minded.

Jordan Robinson (21:56)

Yeah, but it's not something I've ever experienced nor. And, and given my approach towards religion in general, like, I guess I'm kind of out on ghosts. Where are you on ghosts?

Rob Mahoney (22:09)

I mean, I think we're all out on ghosts. No one is in on ghosts. But I guess what I'm wondering is like on, you know, if you're home alone at night and there's a creek on the other side of your place, is there any part of you that seemingly like Tom is like, even though I am a grounded, skeptical person, what if that isn't a creek in the floorboard? What if that isn't even someone breaking into my house? What if that is something supernatural?

Jordan Robinson (22:31)

One time I was living in a place where the garage was sort of like underneath the apartments, right. And so I drove into the garage, the garage door closed. I was sitting in my car and there was like windows on the garage door. And so I could see, sitting in my car, I could see what was outside the window. And I saw a, like diaphanous white floating figure. And I, like, froze. And I was like, there. I cannot, in my brain anywhere concoct an explanation for this that is not ghosts. Like, how is this anything but a ghost? And I literally was just frozen in my car for a while because, like, I didn't know what to do. And eventually I, like, mustered up the courage to run upstairs. The person I was living with at the time, I started, like, babbling to her about what I saw. And she was like, oh, did it look like this? And she went and she got from her balcony this, like, long. And she was a belly dancer. And she's like, it's my belly dancing veil that I was air drying. And I was like, oh, my God. In that moment, I did believe in ghosts because I could not. My brain just could not figure out. Nothing has ever looked gauzier and ghostier in its life than that thing in that moment. Have you ever had a moment where

Rob Mahoney (23:44)

you're like, maybe I've never had that moment. But I will say, like, maybe this is the effect that horror movies do have on me. I'm not a scaredy cat. But after watching, like, rec for the first time or something like that, that's, like, truly unsettling. Yeah, I need, like, a decompression watch. Like, otherwise, if I'm, like, looking at every dark corner, I'm like, every time I pan to look into a mirror, I fully expect a jump scare in my own reflection. It's like I am impressionable in that way from this sort of media. But in life, I can't say I've ever sensed a ghost.

Jordan Robinson (24:13)

There are things that I prefer to watch at home during the day. Yeah, that's sort of my level of, you know, if there was a horror movie that was extremely popular and people are like, you gotta see Hereditary. I'm like, great. I want to see it at home with the daylight streaming in.

Rob Mahoney (24:29)

See, that's what I thought when I watched it follows At Home Alone during the Day, which is a horror movie that is almost exclusively at, like, during the day. Creepy things following you around. I do wonder with Widow's Bay, are we ever gonna get any spooky, scary stuff during daylight hours? It seems like it's more of a haunting thing at night right now.

Jordan Robinson (24:46)

Oh, interesting. I know we're gonna go through, like, some of our favorite characters or whatever, but was there other than Matthew Rhys and Steven Root, an actor that popped up here that you're like, oh, I love this actor. I'm so excited. This is a leading question yes. Do you want me to just give my answer?

Rob Mahoney (25:00)

Let's just do it.

Jordan Robinson (25:01)

Toby Huss, who's playing the priest?

Ad Voice (25:03)

Yeah.

Jordan Robinson (25:04)

Um, I. I'm Reverend Bryce. I'm a huge Toby Huss fan. I don't know if they call themselves hussies or not, but they should absolutely do. But Toby Huss is so, like, such an incredible character actor guy. And when he showed up, I'm like, they got Huss. They got Huss to do Reverend Bryce. And he's, like, 12th down the list of cats.

Rob Mahoney (25:23)

So where do. Where do you know him from?

Jordan Robinson (25:24)

I know him best from, like, he's, like, a long time. Like, he worked on Beavis and Butthead. Adventures of Pete and Pete. But Halt and Catch Fire is like, gotcha. And I like. He was. He was actually the first time I ever interviewed a celebrity in person. Have I told you this story was at south by Southwest when Halt and Catch Fire had its first season? And I did, like, a roundtable interview with Lee Pace, Mackenzie Davis, and Toby Huss. That was the first time interviewing, like, actors in person. But I was already, like, all in on Lee Pace and Lee Pace. The way that I, like, laughed in response to Lee Pace is unfortunately, forever on tape, because I recorded that conversation.

Rob Mahoney (26:07)

Do you listen back to it?

Jordan Robinson (26:08)

So embarrassing to me. And I forever appreciate that Toby Huss was just, like. I feel, like, really seeing me in that moment and just being like, it's okay. Whatever's happening to you right now, it's gonna be okay.

Rob Mahoney (26:20)

We need those spirit guides in these interview circumstances.

Jordan Robinson (26:23)

So I feel, like, emotionally attached to him. Cause he was just, like, really holding it down. That was 2014. That was a very good bonding experience for me.

Rob Mahoney (26:29)

I'm glad you had that moment together. I, too, love Toby Huss, but for very different reasons.

Jordan Robinson (26:33)

What's your Toby Husse?

Rob Mahoney (26:34)

I mean, for me, he will always be the Wiz on Seinfeld. Are you familiar with this episode?

Jordan Robinson (26:40)

Remind me.

Rob Mahoney (26:40)

So Elain starts dating this guy who has, like, this undeniable charm, like, this glint in his eye that has this, like, power over her. And she can't place, like, why it's happening or where it's coming from. It turns out it's because he is, like, the cartoonish mascot for, like, a furniture store called the Wiz, because he's, like, creating magical prices or whatever. And so the slow realization over the course of this episode that he's not just this, like, dashing, interesting man, but also this cartoonish buffoon on tv. So great. And I think, like, he Gets to play both sides of that here, where he's both, like, the severe priest and the priest who's, like, making the Bible jokes and the like.

Jordan Robinson (27:15)

Yeah, Bible, Bible, blah, blah, blah.

Rob Mahoney (27:16)

There's evil in these woods, and I'm gonna walk off into the darkness. Like, it's. He's so good and so funny in so little screen time. I'm delighted that he's here.

Jordan Robinson (27:24)

And this is like, to take us back to sort of the park, Parks and Rec influence. It just seems, you know, it seems like the kind of project that people who are quite funny want to be a part of. You know what I mean? And Toby Huss is not, like, the funniest guy that has ever existed, but, like, it's very funny in this show. But, like, you know, Neil Casey's here. Neil Casey, SNL writer, was in Katie's Ghostbusters movie, For Better, for Worse, et cetera, et cetera. Just like the people. Tim Balls, who shows up like all these. This is just the right tier of comedic actor that I just am so excited to see. And the whole crew that's at City hall is just incredibly good stuff.

Rob Mahoney (28:07)

And they get to play so fun and so broad. And, I mean, it does feel like a Parks and Rec citizens rogues gallery that's developing. The one exception being it's like, Wick is a character who. He is one of those stereotypes, but he's also, like, not so insane as he seems. I mean, I guess he's still insane. He's just also correct about the hauntings.

Jordan Robinson (28:28)

Rosemary is also the one who has, like, some hag lore, and she's right about that, too. So, you know, he should crawl into

Rob Mahoney (28:33)

the crawl space all the way.

Jordan Robinson (28:35)

Great suggestions from Rosemary. Before we get into our categories, we got an email. We got a lot of emails from people saying, please cover Widows Bay.

Rob Mahoney (28:43)

We love it.

Jordan Robinson (28:43)

Will not be reading all of those emails out, but thank you so much for writing them. We got an email from our listener Carolyn, who wanted to point out that Kitty Katie Dippold is from New Jersey, where Carolyn's from, and that was used as an inspo for this. This is an interview that Kitty Dippold gave New Jersey Monthly. Quote, there used to be a haunted house on the boardwalk in Long Branch. It was terrifying, and I was way too young for it. I would be so scared, but I would be so excited and giddy. And that's actually a huge inspiration for the show I'm doing because I want to capture that feeling again where something is tense and terrifying, but then you still laugh at the end.

Rob Mahoney (29:14)

Yeah.

Jordan Robinson (29:15)

Um, and then Carolyn, our listener also sent in the URL weirdnj.com Are you familiar with this?

Rob Mahoney (29:23)

No.

Jordan Robinson (29:23)

There is a website, Weird nj where it's just like your travel guide to New Jersey's local legends and best kept secrets. So it's just like, I guess the New Jersey devil would be like one of like yes, like all of the weird stuff, the X Files esque stuff that, that have ever happened in New Jersey are, you know, collected here on this website. So shout out weirdnj.com if you have a weird New Jersey story that you would. You've experienced listeners and would like to send it to us, please do. I would like to hear them.

Rob Mahoney (29:48)

I would also love to hear those. Prestigetv@Spotify.com yeah, I think slightly better than

Jordan Robinson (29:52)

our, our maggot story collection from the Pit, perhaps, but one hopes.

Rob Mahoney (29:57)

I gotta say I enjoyed those two in their way.

Jordan Robinson (29:58)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob Mahoney (29:59)

I think there is something about places like New Jersey though that are like just normal and boring enough where they create this sort of legend. And places like this too. Places like Widows Bay where it's like just kind of a quiet seaside town that doesn't have a lot going for it, but then all of a sudden has this history of like cannibalism and all of these things in its past that but can't ever go away because people keep drumming them up.

Jordan Robinson (30:21)

Rob, it took them four whole days to turn to cannibalism. Like, let's calm down.

Rob Mahoney (30:24)

How long would it take you?

Jordan Robinson (30:27)

I simply would not eat another person.

Rob Mahoney (30:29)

You're going to Mallory me.

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Jordan Robinson (32:56)

And Mallory, too. All right, do you want to get to our categories?

Rob Mahoney (32:59)

Let's do it.

Jordan Robinson (33:00)

Okay, first category, Best bit of lore. There's a well in the woods.

Rob Mahoney (33:05)

I love a dark well.

Jordan Robinson (33:06)

There's a rusty hatch with a scary chair at the end of episode one.

Rob Mahoney (33:10)

That one's real scary.

Jordan Robinson (33:11)

Very losty to end with a literal hatch. Love that for me. What do you. What do you want to shout out? Lore wise? I have some other options here.

Rob Mahoney (33:18)

I want to go comedy wise on the lore. I think one of the things that made me laugh hardest in these three episodes is when I'm totally blank on her name. But the woman who is doing the historical society tour.

Jordan Robinson (33:29)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob Mahoney (33:30)

Specifically when she's talking about the witch trial being a great source of pride. We caught him. We burned him.

Jordan Robinson (33:35)

Like there's Just Jerry.

Rob Mahoney (33:37)

Jerry. Thank you. Jerry's doing great work. And I want to say I did do the zoom in, and Jerry does get an extensive shout out in the New York Times article that is published. So I'm glad she's getting her.

Jordan Robinson (33:46)

Thank you, Arthur. Thank you so much. This show feels made for you to pause and zoom in. It took me a long time. I watched these episodes through, and then I rewatched them for this, and it took me. I did a lot of pausing and scrutinizing of, like, lists and articles and, like, maps and book titles and whatever the case may be. Like, back in my, like, lost era.

Rob Mahoney (34:08)

Now, Arthur's lead writing. I think we could have a conversation with him and his editor about that. The text is good. Everything that they read from the article in the car is, like, straight up there in the prop. But I think we can do better.

Jordan Robinson (34:19)

You want. You would have judged it up a bit more.

Rob Mahoney (34:21)

I mean, it's just a little bland.

Jordan Robinson (34:22)

You don't think you would get these many crowds coming to think so.

Rob Mahoney (34:26)

But also, you know what? The New York Times editors notoriously kind of stingy with this stuff.

Jordan Robinson (34:30)

It's true. They don't want you to get too spicy about it. But yeah, like, we're enormously proud of our witch trial work. Like, we caught him. We burned them so good. It's like, so good the way her delivery, too. I will say, the island is wake Wick saying the island is waking up.

Rob Mahoney (34:47)

Oh, yeah.

Jordan Robinson (34:47)

Incredible. Again, lost. You are with us always. We get a boogeyman reference.

Rob Mahoney (34:52)

We do.

Jordan Robinson (34:53)

Excited to see that pay off. Hopefully that's okay. Very Patricia.

Rob Mahoney (34:57)

Patricia's 40 now.

Jordan Robinson (34:59)

When that comes back in, like, episode three, when she's like, he was like an elderly woman. Was she 40?

Rob Mahoney (35:04)

This woman does not forget Patricia.

Jordan Robinson (35:06)

We will get to you. We will give you your flowers. 1846, the fog that stole souls.

Rob Mahoney (35:10)

Yep.

Jordan Robinson (35:11)

Great stuff. The shipwreck painting in the inn.

Rob Mahoney (35:15)

I do love the shipwreck painting. And the drowning child.

Jordan Robinson (35:17)

Yeah, the drowning child. The captain's suite. The innkeeper kicking the suitcase in. Cause he refuses to cross the threshold. Then the later, like, payoff with the 10 seconds. 30 seconds. Ungrateful Hortense Fitzgerald. Ugly Hortense. Should the bell toll, there are steps you must take.

Rob Mahoney (35:33)

Oh, I love a tolling bell. I love a mysteriously tolling bell. The second we see that bell chained up, Joe, I'm like, we're cooking with gas.

Jordan Robinson (35:40)

Because you're like, oh, this is definitely Evan shenanigans. Then you're like, not Even Evan.

Rob Mahoney (35:44)

No. Dusty ladder. Chained bell. Yeah, whatever. Like, subplot and side quest that the Priest is going on. I just, I think is like a great runner undercutting a lot of the season. And I think you need it too. Right? Like, you need the comedic undercutting at times, but you also need just, like the. We are slowly building the stakes of something increasingly scary happening beyond just your sea hags.

Jordan Robinson (36:04)

There's a well in the woods. Ron.

Rob Mahoney (36:06)

I don't like the second he looked. Do not lean over.

Jordan Robinson (36:09)

And I feel like there was, like, eerie ooing.

Rob Mahoney (36:10)

Coming up, we need to do a public service announcement. If you find a dark well in the woods, do not, under any circumstances, lean over the well. I don't know how many times we have to say this.

Jordan Robinson (36:21)

What if someone's holding your ankles for you while you do it? Like, do like the buddy system, only lean over a well if you're using the buddy system and someone has a firm grasp on your ankles while you're doing it.

Rob Mahoney (36:32)

I would like to propose a trust exercise for you and I and Kai. Yeah. In which we all do this for each other. We go find an abandoned well out in the woods. Rob, would you trust us to hold your ankles?

Jordan Robinson (36:42)

I trust Kai. I don't know that I trust you.

Rob Mahoney (36:44)

You know what? Honesty fair. I can't even argue it.

Jordan Robinson (36:48)

The video guy. Is there a body bag on the shore in that video where the guy just, like, walks away? There's like, a dark object on the shore.

Rob Mahoney (36:56)

I mean, there's a lot happening in that video.

Jordan Robinson (36:57)

And we haven't mentioned Twin Peaks yet, of course, but, like, very peaksy. Very, very loud.

Rob Mahoney (37:01)

I would say more effectively the most. When people reach for David Lynch, I think they often end up in some other field entirely. This one, I think, is getting the right notes.

Jordan Robinson (37:08)

And then the clown killer of 51.

Rob Mahoney (37:10)

Yeah.

Jordan Robinson (37:11)

Our guy. And then also he's gotten a couple mentions, but Richard Warren, first, Reeve prime and Lord Island Protector. His second wife, Sarah, who gets a lingering shot over the opening title in the third. That sort of statue of her.

Rob Mahoney (37:25)

The Historical Society, I think statue is generous.

Jordan Robinson (37:27)

Mannequin, papier, mache construction. And then the headless Richard Warren statue.

Rob Mahoney (37:33)

Amazing.

Jordan Robinson (37:34)

Out and about. I do know that Hamish Linkletter is in this season, and I do think the portrait in the Historical Society of Richard Warren looks like one of my favorite actors, Hamish Linklater, who is the star of Midnight Mass.

Rob Mahoney (37:53)

So you're proposing perhaps a flashback or a ghost.

Jordan Robinson (37:56)

We've gotten so many references to the founder that, like, I would not have seen that.

Rob Mahoney (38:00)

There's gotta be some lore there. And especially whatever's happening with the creepy chair that you cited underneath the restaurant. Like, that's clearly something that's been there for a long time and has been part of some kind of continuous town exercise or lore, perhaps.

Jordan Robinson (38:14)

But, like, the hatch itself looks. Cause it was the 1600s when the island was founded. The hatch looks more modern than the 1600s.

Rob Mahoney (38:22)

Well, that strikes me as they've upset a semi modern way to accommodate whatever is happening. I don't think it's like rocket science to deduce that this could perhaps be like a human sacrifice situation. Right. Like, you.

Jordan Robinson (38:34)

There's straps on the chair.

Rob Mahoney (38:34)

It looks like an electric chair, but it's not. It's just straps. It's just kind of keeping you in place. They open the hatch, whatever thing comes out of the hatch, you know, cabin in the woods style and eats you. Maybe that was like, you know, a mid-50s kind of invention. They're like, okay, we're gonna create the hatch. We gotta get this.

Jordan Robinson (38:51)

We gotta put some doors on this thing.

Rob Mahoney (38:52)

We gotta get this under control.

Jordan Robinson (38:53)

Yeah, this tunnel that is just an open, gaping wound on the island. Let's put a hatch on it. So let's just, like, be reasonable. All right. Favorite city employee.

Rob Mahoney (39:02)

There's really no argument for anybody else. It has to be Patricia, who I think is my favorite character on television right now. Is anyone doing it better than Patricia?

Jordan Robinson (39:11)

I would die for Patricia. She's so good. So, Cato Flynn. Have you seen Kato Flynn in anything?

Rob Mahoney (39:16)

I don't believe so.

Jordan Robinson (39:17)

So the thing that I know her best friend is she was in this canceled Amazon show called My Lady Jane, where she played Princess Mary. And she was so funny. She, like, just this exact level of funny. Like a woman who is absurd in many ways. When she's like, oh, they left my poem out of the brochure.

Rob Mahoney (39:40)

Or she's like, whatever, it's okay.

Jordan Robinson (39:41)

Like, yeah. Did you show my paintings? Like, absurd in many ways, but also, like. I mean, this is less true of my Lady Jane, but, like, I care about her and I'm rooting for her so much.

Rob Mahoney (39:52)

Protect Patricia if you wanted to create an effective cliffhanger. There's something bad happening at Patricia's Sunset Drinks. I'm on the hook. Like, I need this next episode immediately.

Jordan Robinson (40:02)

The voicemail that she left for tomorrow. I'm at the event that you said

Rob Mahoney (40:08)

you would be at.

Jordan Robinson (40:09)

So good.

Rob Mahoney (40:10)

She actually might bring a gun to work. But like Kato Flynn in this performance, like, she's just the right amount of credulous where, like she is also willing to buy or believe or talk through basically anything in a way that is just so fucking funny. And the fact that she's basically like the second most maybe competent person at city hall while believing in all these things, while wanting to tell you yet again about her boogeyman encounter. It's just a perfect blend of a character.

Jordan Robinson (40:35)

When Wick is talking about the shipwreck that occurred because an older man was in love with a teenage girl, she's like, are the older women dead in this scenario? Incredibly good. Her finding out that her biological age is 28. Like, what's going on with the biological ages of these islanders? I have some questions.

Rob Mahoney (40:51)

Who knows?

Jordan Robinson (40:52)

Yeah, Patricia's an icon, but the whole crew, I mean, Rosemary Dale is played by the Emmy winner, Jeff Hiller. Great energy. When he's describing the islander's reaction to taxation. They're like, if you want this blood money, have to come collect it yourself.

Rob Mahoney (41:09)

That feels very Parks and Rec for sure.

Jordan Robinson (41:11)

Exactly, exactly.

Rob Mahoney (41:12)

And we gotta shout out Ruth too. Like, I mean, as far as an elderly assistant who does not know anyone's phone numbers, cannot read her own handwriting and wants to take a nap by 11am A fucking icon.

Jordan Robinson (41:23)

It's the mornings that are tough, Ron. She really needs her eye, you know. And then the other, like Garrett at the lighthouse, like all the other people around here.

Rob Mahoney (41:32)

Innkeeper.

Jordan Robinson (41:32)

It's all great.

Rob Mahoney (41:33)

It's an incredible cast.

Jordan Robinson (41:34)

Yeah. Favorite obvious joke.

Rob Mahoney (41:37)

I think the best obvious joke has to be the sea hag crawling into your bed and killing you by sitting on your face like that is. That's a God tiered joke. Betwixt her thighs. Your final sin. I don't know how you could write a better premise for a horror comedy show than this. That you have to lock yourself in a chest for 72 hours to resist the paralysis that's going to kill you of the Sea hag. It's just great.

Jordan Robinson (42:00)

It's really good. It's funny because I'm the one who said we should do obvious joke and then throwaway joke. But I was just having trouble sorting them a little bit. And he walks the line because I was like, oh, one of my obvious jokes is a visual gag. But a lot of my throwaway jokes are visual gags. It's like, they're there if you want them. But I do think the giant headline of cannibalism in God's house. No, that took four days.

Rob Mahoney (42:22)

I think it's Obvious is like, quite obvious.

Jordan Robinson (42:24)

And very funny. Really, really funny.

Rob Mahoney (42:26)

It's the prop. But also called out in dialogue. That feels obvious enough.

Jordan Robinson (42:29)

Also, he murdered teenage girls. You're in your 40s. You'd be fine. Is also extremely, extremely good. All right. Any other obvious jokes you want to call out?

Rob Mahoney (42:37)

Dickhole Street.

Jordan Robinson (42:38)

Yeah, Dickhole Street's really good. Shout out, Evan. All right. Favorite throwaway joke.

Rob Mahoney (42:43)

I think it's also Sea hag related. It's when you love that hag. I honestly did really love the hag. You're a hag guy. When Tom calls the sheriff to tell him about his hag experience, and the sheriff has written down old woman, possibly damp faster than old woman should be. Exclamation point. Absolute perfection.

Jordan Robinson (42:59)

We should say Kevin Carroll, an actor we love in the Leftovers is here. I love him in this, like, sheriff's role. Like, it's great. Here's a. I. I didn't, like, prompt you for any. To come up with any theories, but I have one theory that I would love to hear. It Is the sheriff's wife real and

Rob Mahoney (43:16)

or alive, you think she is also a ghost?

Jordan Robinson (43:18)

I don't know. We've only heard her on the other side of the phone. It's a haunt. People make phone calls. I know. I'm just saying we haven't seen her yet.

Rob Mahoney (43:27)

I would think this is a small enough town that everyone would know.

Jordan Robinson (43:30)

Right. The only person who saw him on the phone talking to his wife is Wick, who would be like, there. He's talking to his, like, dead wife again. Or something like that.

Rob Mahoney (43:37)

I hadn't even considered it.

Jordan Robinson (43:38)

I don't know. I just like when I haven't seen a character, I'm like, why haven't I seen that character? Why is that just a voice on the phone?

Rob Mahoney (43:44)

Well, his grand designs do seem to be to move away to leave the island.

Jordan Robinson (43:47)

Yeah.

Rob Mahoney (43:48)

I mean, maybe his wife tried to leave the island and was among those who died as soon as she got to the mainland. Many people die when they get to Boston. Real, truly or spiritually tough.

Jordan Robinson (43:57)

The crash truck and the wolves calendar.

Rob Mahoney (43:59)

Yeah.

Jordan Robinson (44:00)

Really good. All of the headlines. Priest eaten by whale, man found dead by horse. Was like, an extremely good one. I did read the lead on that article. Very good. The daddy's home game. The teeth game.

Rob Mahoney (44:13)

Just pliers. The game is just pliers.

Jordan Robinson (44:17)

The one that he didn't open, which is just called. She shouldn't have said that. Incredibly good. The run bit, all of that.

Rob Mahoney (44:23)

Yeah.

Jordan Robinson (44:24)

When I was, like, watching it and they were Playing daddy's home. And the guy that I was like, pretty sure was a ghost said, oh man, I'm in the basement, I'm getting crushed. I was like, did this guy die by getting crushed in a basement? And we do find him in the crawl space later on. It's a little different, but like we do. And then. Would you call the Kathy runner a throw? A non obvious joke.

Rob Mahoney (44:44)

I think it's fairly obvious, but I'm enjoying it quite a bit.

Jordan Robinson (44:46)

Enemy Kathy at the diner.

Rob Mahoney (44:48)

Everyone's enemy, it seems.

Jordan Robinson (44:51)

I don't know. She's best friends with Marissa, so I

Rob Mahoney (44:53)

mean, she got a free burger and fries out of it. So some people do win.

Jordan Robinson (44:56)

Yeah. Oh, and one other thing. One other visual in episode three when we get the Richard Warren video.

Rob Mahoney (45:01)

Yeah.

Jordan Robinson (45:02)

There's just like a brief glimpse of the map and he's describing like, you know, 42 nautical miles, like blah, blah, blah, and then just says do not travel here in large letters on the map that he's like describing this bucolic island that they found.

Rob Mahoney (45:19)

Is this the same video? So is this the one of the gentlemen in the room talking about the

Jordan Robinson (45:23)

town's history goes to leave and the door is locked and he just stands there.

Rob Mahoney (45:28)

Again, another just like wonderful little joke sitting right there.

Jordan Robinson (45:31)

Yeah, very Blair Witchy.

Rob Mahoney (45:32)

I enjoyed it quite a bit. I also think Wick just nailing a board to the door without nailing it to the frame. This is, this is a great throwaway

Jordan Robinson (45:40)

when he's just sort of like he opens the door.

Rob Mahoney (45:42)

Absolutely nothing.

Jordan Robinson (45:43)

Yeah. Did nothing. All right, favorite horror movie reference or Easter egg?

Rob Mahoney (45:46)

I think it's all the Jaws stuff for me as far as the Easter egg. Like I really don't. Did love the board games as well. Teeth is just like such a diabolical idea.

Jordan Robinson (45:54)

And also when Tom is describing to Arthur at the Historical Society like, you know, 42 people set out. She's like 43. He's like, it's a little early for that story. And he's like, it came. Came to an island and nothing was here. And she's like, except for the teeth.

Rob Mahoney (46:06)

Except for the teeth.

Jordan Robinson (46:07)

Except for the teeth.

Rob Mahoney (46:08)

Did you ever play don't wake daddy, the board game don't wake daddy. It's like a real board game.

Jordan Robinson (46:14)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but yes.

Rob Mahoney (46:15)

It's amazing in retrospect how much like get how many games. I remember there's also a cartoon show called wait till your father gets home. It's like how many things were just constructed around like dads coming Home and being fucking furious. Because in part, they got yelled at by their younger bosses at work.

Jordan Robinson (46:31)

I remember, like, the commercial was like, don't wake dad.

Rob Mahoney (46:34)

Yeah, this felt very don't wake Daddy coded to me.

Jordan Robinson (46:37)

Dad's younger, got chewed out by his younger boss. Really funny horror movie reference, slash Easter egg, I will say, I guess. Yeah, the Shining stuff in episode two. But also those are things I might be inclined to miss, so. Presstvpify.com yeah, if you have any deep cuts. We've caught some deep cuts.

Rob Mahoney (46:53)

We'd love to hear them.

Jordan Robinson (46:54)

Best haunt, Scare, spook or fright.

Rob Mahoney (46:56)

Look, I think it simply has to be the clown killer at 51.

Jordan Robinson (46:59)

Really true.

Rob Mahoney (47:00)

And specifically, like Tim Baltz, who. I mean, I just love unrighteous gemstones. Just the right amount of aw, shucksy in bonding with Tom in the first place and then turning him into the trailer the Clown Killer. It's like, not unexpected, but when he

Jordan Robinson (47:14)

lowers himself into frame, you know what's happening. It's really tough.

Rob Mahoney (47:17)

And he's really been watching the game tape on the Pennywise crawl. Like, he really gets it.

Jordan Robinson (47:21)

Yeah, I can't. I can't beat clown. I can't beat clown for you. I will say, though, if we get more Blair Witch stuff, I will talk more about the Blair Witch. But I have, like, a long, strong association with the Blair Witch Project. But I will say Tom having the camcorder that he had to, like, record his experience into, Very Blair Witchy.

Rob Mahoney (47:42)

A lot of camcorders, a lot of tube TVs, are they just raiding the severance prop department? Is that what's happening?

Jordan Robinson (47:48)

All right, this category I'm calling New England's Best Kept Secret, which is the headline on Arthur's New York Times article. Is there a moment watching these three episodes where you're like, huh, Widow's Bay actually seems pretty nice.

Rob Mahoney (47:59)

I think it's the no sell signal.

Jordan Robinson (48:01)

I agree to be unreal. No wifi, no wi fi, no cell signal.

Rob Mahoney (48:04)

Oh, my God.

Jordan Robinson (48:05)

Well, you welcome the peace and quiet, says Tom.

Rob Mahoney (48:07)

I actually would.

Jordan Robinson (48:08)

Yeah.

Rob Mahoney (48:09)

Counterpoint. Could I ever live in a place with two restaurants? That seems like, tough.

Jordan Robinson (48:13)

The Driftwood.

Rob Mahoney (48:16)

The Salty Whale is the nice one. Yes, I think it is the Driftwood

Jordan Robinson (48:20)

Diner, maybe something like that. Okay. You need more than 2? I just need a little coffee shop.

Rob Mahoney (48:26)

Yes. What I love about newly installed cappuccino machine.

Jordan Robinson (48:29)

What I love about Tom, Single dad. Single working dad. Is that it seems like they eat, take out every single night.

Rob Mahoney (48:37)

That man has never cooked in his life.

Jordan Robinson (48:38)

Yeah, I Loved the, like, little moment when they're watching the ball game and he, like, takes the onions off his sandwich, like, without even looking, and just like, puts them on his son sandwich. It's kind of lovely. I also say a place that has Hill Hills, Beach, Ardor Point, the Seated Rye Cobble Pond, all sounds like, very nice to me. There is unfortunately also a place called the Old Hospital, which is tough. I love a coastal, like a coastal town. Mendocino, California. My favorite place in the whole world.

Rob Mahoney (49:06)

Yeah, the fog has had us for a long time. It may just be getting the people of Widow's Bay, but I'm really pro fog.

Jordan Robinson (49:12)

Yeah, it's been kind of foggy in la. The last couple days have been really nice.

Rob Mahoney (49:15)

Unseasonably.

Jordan Robinson (49:16)

I've enjoyed it.

Rob Mahoney (49:17)

Could use a cliff, you know.

Jordan Robinson (49:19)

An LA local called it the May Gray. I don't know if that's like a real LA thing, but she's like, I guess it's the May Gray.

Rob Mahoney (49:24)

I guess we're gonna make it a thing.

Jordan Robinson (49:25)

If it's not a thing, well, we're new to la. Hey, is that a thing?

Rob Mahoney (49:27)

La?

Jordan Robinson (49:28)

We don't know.

Rob Mahoney (49:29)

I do think the old hospital, that's perfect. Like, New Jersey style lore of, like, you can drive by it, but you can't stop, you know? Amazing stuff.

Jordan Robinson (49:36)

Best Matthew Reese physical comedy beat.

Rob Mahoney (49:38)

I think it has to be him floundering around in the shallow part of the beach after being chased to the shore by the hag.

Jordan Robinson (49:45)

Also, like, his rash guard that he's wearing. And then also the like. I was thinking a lot of the ice rink moment in Parks and Recreation that Gloria Estefan. Get on your feet. When he was like, when. When I'm so excited. Was playing as he's walking down in his rash guard to, like, do his swimming. Very, very ice rink to me. When he promises Wick he'll give him five minutes of his undivided attention.

Rob Mahoney (50:10)

Yes.

Jordan Robinson (50:10)

And Wick's like, I don't want you correcting my grammar.

Rob Mahoney (50:13)

I want to go tit for tit.

Jordan Robinson (50:13)

I want to go for tit for tit. And then he does. Matthew Reese does this, like, shaking it off, sort of like clenching his jaw.

Rob Mahoney (50:21)

Swallow your toes.

Jordan Robinson (50:22)

Yeah.

Rob Mahoney (50:22)

This just sort of like the clock hasn't even started yet and I need to just eat this down.

Jordan Robinson (50:27)

Yeah.

Rob Mahoney (50:28)

So much of the show, we should say, like, really relies on Matthew Rhys playing the comedy beats clearly. But also, like, he has to be alone to be frightened. Right. So, like, you have to put him in spaces where he is really the only actor responding to these crazy things that are happening. I don't know that I've ever seen him in quite this, like, frantic a register. Usually even when he's stressed, there's like kind of a control to him. And so seeing him be a little more spastic, a little more like, I'm so delighted you just compared us to Martha's Vineyard. I like, can't help but cackle in the middle of this restaurant. Like, there is an on edge ness to him that I'm really appreciating.

Jordan Robinson (51:02)

Obviously we love him. The Americans. We weren't like huge Perry Mason heads or anything like that. We did watch all of the Beasted Me.

Rob Mahoney (51:10)

We did that Mankin. Eat a chicken.

Jordan Robinson (51:12)

I'm just so excited for him to have this role. This is such a good, good role for him. Oh, he's really good on Girls too. He's great in that Girls episode. Yeah. Matthew Rhys, just like a really underrated, absolute rock star. All right, something, something Steven Root. What Steven Root moment do you want to call out?

Rob Mahoney (51:31)

I feel like I am indexing very hard on season three because somebody to bring a shanty. And I'm glad it was Steven Rood

Jordan Robinson (51:36)

singing the High song. That's what I have too. Is that the last shanty we'll hear in this? Jaws Inspired. You know, I hope to God island based horror.

Rob Mahoney (51:44)

So many sailors have been lured to their death. You're telling me we don't have any other shanties about what happened? Honestly, if every episode had a sea shanty about whatever horrors await us, I would welcome it.

Jordan Robinson (51:54)

The fact that the shanty starts with him just going like, oh, and I don't know why I've saved him for last, but we wanted to shout out Evan's Evan's guide to Teenage Rebellion. Okay, so speaking of people who. I'm really excited for the actor playing Evan. We first met on Presumed Innocent.

Rob Mahoney (52:15)

We sure did. Another Apple show.

Jordan Robinson (52:17)

We should note Kingston Rumi Southwick. They almost have, like, stable of actors

Rob Mahoney (52:21)

at their service, as Netflix does, as HBO does.

Jordan Robinson (52:24)

But Chase Infinity had, you know, a great, like, year last year.

Rob Mahoney (52:30)

She did. Was it because of Presumed Innocence?

Jordan Robinson (52:33)

No, but I'm just saying, like, she got her, like, completely. Let's wash off the. The stench of my it wasn't her fault narrative role in Presumed Innocent. But I don't remember Kingston Rumi Southwick popping in Presumed Innocent the way that he is, like, really popping for me in this show. I think he's so funny. His just incredibly dry, sarcastic, like, response to Tom's agitation is just extremely good. And there's so many other ways to play this kid as, like, more of a shithead or, like, all this other stuff. But, like, I like him, but also he's just constantly, like, being a smartass and lying, and I just. I really enjoy him.

Rob Mahoney (53:18)

And the very specific way that he's playing dumb is, like, super funny. I'm completely with you. Like, this is the kind of character on other shows that's usually very annoying. And it's clearly the weak point. Every scene he's in is wonderful and super funny. And I think some of it is, again, that delicate balance where there is a sweetness to him, where the playing dumb you buy. But also, he's clearly so much smarter than he's letting on. The, like, I found this joint. Do you know what this is?

Jordan Robinson (53:43)

Do you know what this is?

Rob Mahoney (53:44)

After taking 10 seconds to consider what he's gonna say.

Jordan Robinson (53:47)

Do you know what this is? I was trying to figure out. And then he exhales the song.

Rob Mahoney (53:52)

It's a different kind of fog coming for all of us.

Jordan Robinson (53:54)

That's so funny. Yeah. Like, staying the night with Ruth. And when he's like, okay. And Tom's like, what did you just concoct? Was really good.

Rob Mahoney (54:02)

He just figured out that Ruth wouldn't be able to tell the difference between him and, like, an armoire, you know, Dick Holstreet.

Jordan Robinson (54:08)

Somebody did that. That's horrible.

Rob Mahoney (54:10)

That's crazy.

Jordan Robinson (54:11)

That's horrible. Oh, yeah. It's a sleepover date. Yeah. It's exactly what it is. It's so good. Any thoughts or feelings about these teenagers and what they might get up to this season?

Rob Mahoney (54:21)

I mean, they're gonna have to be imperiled. Like, that's just of a horror movie. And specifically, Evan is going to have to be imperiled in a way that will test Tom or test his bravery or his willingness to believe all this stuff. And, like, the line right now is, tom is clearly scared out of his mind, but won't acknowledge to anyone who's not Wick, in part because Wick just shot the sea hag with a gun and turned her into, like, mucky water.

Jordan Robinson (54:42)

Pause for a moment.

Rob Mahoney (54:43)

Yeah.

Jordan Robinson (54:44)

What did that smell like?

Rob Mahoney (54:46)

I mean, you don't want to know, do you? Really? It smells like the still water of a fucking bog, you know?

Jordan Robinson (54:54)

Yeah. Very Bogg. What if we could watch this show in 40x the spray? Yeah.

Rob Mahoney (55:03)

Yeah, I. You know what? I would welcome it.

Jordan Robinson (55:05)

Yeah, you would?

Rob Mahoney (55:06)

I would welcome the extra space.

Jordan Robinson (55:07)

Get a little experience of Cappuccino a little earlier on at least a waft. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Rob Mahoney (55:11)

I don't trust every show or movie with that experience, but I do think they would be very good at it.

Jordan Robinson (55:15)

Anything else you want to call out for Widow's Bay, A show that we're really enjoying.

Rob Mahoney (55:18)

Again, the show does such a great job of all those inversions that we mentioned. And, like, I think one of the things that these moments in every episode that are driving that home for me, when the Sea hag has crawled on top of Tom in his recliner and he uses it to catapult her across the room, there's just so many of those moments where it's like, I feel like I'm in great hands tonally. I feel like every time that I am settled or unsettled, I'm gonna be yanked back in the opposite direction in a way that feels so sure of itself.

Jordan Robinson (55:44)

You had watched episode one, and I had watched episode two, and something that I was saying to you is, like, when I watched episode one, I thought, like, what's the fog was going to be, like the whole season, but it's like the fog is just episode one. Episode two, we got a haunted inn. Episode three, there's a sea Hag. But accompanying all of it is the, like, the mayor's gonna spend a night in the inn or the inaugural swim. This very Parks and Recreation. Like, there's a harvest festival we have to put on sort of thing. So, like, beach reads, which is episode four. Is this Sunset Drinks. Like, it has to be, right? We can't, like, not find out what happened at Sunset Drinks. Right?

Rob Mahoney (56:25)

I mean, we have to see what happens there. And I would assume too, like, this is probably not the last we've seen of Marissa and her bachelorettes, or do

Jordan Robinson (56:31)

you think I should hope so? They. She had, like, great chemistry with Matthew Reese.

Rob Mahoney (56:34)

Really great.

Jordan Robinson (56:34)

Yeah, Yeah.

Rob Mahoney (56:35)

I mean, he blew it.

Jordan Robinson (56:36)

He did.

Rob Mahoney (56:36)

You know, he overthought the hag situation.

Jordan Robinson (56:39)

Tom was gonna blow it no matter what, one way or another.

Rob Mahoney (56:41)

That is 100% true. But I'm imagining, based on what could be happening at the drinks, maybe this is where the island starts getting locked down a little bit. But I guess we also have so much season left. Maybe that's not the case.

Jordan Robinson (56:52)

I'm just gonna read the other episode titles just so we can have some fun doing that. What to expect on your trip. Our history, which could be a flashback episode.

Rob Mahoney (56:59)

Sure sounds like it.

Jordan Robinson (56:59)

It's a Ty west episode. So get.

Rob Mahoney (57:02)

Buckle up.

Jordan Robinson (57:02)

Be afraid. Seasickness. Your Baggage, emergency shelter, a storm. We hope you enjoyed your time, exclamation mark. So I really love this show. I hope more and more people are watching this show. This is a show that I hope runs for several seasons. Very much so, unlike severance, doesn't have like three years in between seasons would be really nice.

Rob Mahoney (57:25)

Do you think the premise itself lends itself to multiple seasons?

Jordan Robinson (57:29)

Well, I guess it depends on, like, the island is waking up. Is there something we have, you know, like Reverend Bryce, Toby Huss is like, there are things that you must do. So like, are there things that you know, leading up to your human sacrifice, chair theory, et cetera, et cetera. Are there things to do to appease the island? And if there are, is that an end of a season or is that a series long endeavor or like. Or does it just like wake up again next summer? How often does the island wake? You know, how many hag, like sea shanties can we concoct? It's a great question. Yeah, I did have that question of how long can something like this go?

Rob Mahoney (58:04)

I think it's always tough with like high concept comedy, but since we're in like the Mike Schur coaching tree, it was something that I know was like hovering over the Good place from minute one. Right. It's like as soon as this shows,

Jordan Robinson (58:15)

I was thinking about the good place a lot with this show.

Rob Mahoney (58:17)

I think it also has a lot in common. But it's like how once you play out the conceit to a certain point, where do you go? How do you reinvent it? How can you change it? I think there's so many things about Tom's story that would have to be dramatically different now that he's opened his eyes to what it means to exist in the fog and all these other mysteries. And that's where, if you'll pardon the fog as the mist part comes into play, where it's not even about what is the imminent danger, but the idea that there is imminent danger that you now have to acknowledge and recognize, that'll be a dramatic shift for the show.

Jordan Robinson (58:48)

Anything else you wanna say before we go?

Rob Mahoney (58:50)

I'm ready to get out of here. I just. I hope we get more Kathy. I hope she continues to be very terrible at her job. It's bringing me much delight and I love doing this show and I love talking about it with you.

Jordan Robinson (58:58)

Joe, Shout out Katie Dippold, who we are. Did you want to explain for the listeners why you were most excited that Katie Dippold is running the show?

Rob Mahoney (59:05)

I mean, the parks and Rec connection is nice.

Jordan Robinson (59:07)

Yes.

Rob Mahoney (59:07)

The Ghostbusters connection is nice. The Heat connection is nice. She is the author of the single greatest tweet in the history of the medium, which, if you're not familiar with dressing like the Babadook when your friends are having more of, like, a grownups drinking wine vibe situation, I can think of no source text that would show that someone is better for horror comedy than that. So we really are in great hands.

Jordan Robinson (59:27)

It's the photo that goes along with that tweet that really sells it.

Rob Mahoney (59:30)

Just tremendous.

Jordan Robinson (59:31)

Yeah. Look it up if you haven't seen it.

Rob Mahoney (59:32)

If we can throw up that visual here on the pod, let's please do that.

Jordan Robinson (59:35)

Absolutely. And I just want to shout out Neil Casey, who is not only playing the innkeeper, but also wrote episode three, one of your favorite episodes of this. Of this batch. So I'm excited to see. I love Parks and Recreation. I love. I love Mike Schur shows. And so, like, as much of that sort of these city employees are trying to hold things together and deal with disgruntled locals. I also something I do love in a Haunted island east coast show that's like reaching for Stephen King and all this sort of stuff like that one could easily be saddled with a lot of burdensome accents. And that's not what's happening here. You get a local who's like, he's harmless. Like, something like that, where you're just sort of like, I'm glad not everyone has to make the swing for that accent. But it's there if you look for it.

Rob Mahoney (60:25)

You need a little bit of Old Bay in there somewhere else. It's not really gonna work. I do think also, too, it was so interesting hearing about the shaping of this project like that. This is something that Katie Dippold had been kind of like, working on and sitting on for a long time and had been formative into her getting into Parks and Rec in the first place. And the version that we're seeing is so much more horror oriented than the initial was like. Like harder comedy. In particular, it seems like the scene at the Historical Society is, like, maybe the most consistent in terms of what has survived that earlier version of it. At least the earlier version of that pilot or movie or whatever it was supposed to be. But even then it was like, it's been totally recalibrated and the framing has been changed. And it's like, I love when things like this kind of have that extended second life, when it's just like, you just have to find the right register to take this into a totally different gear.

Jordan Robinson (61:11)

Something that's been kicking around someone's head for so long. Yeah. I'll be interested to see how the tone again if there's like, like episodes that feel more comedy and more horror and there's nothing wrong with that. I think inside of the season, as long as it all the scales all feel kind of balanced at the end of the day, that's been Widow's Bay. I really hope if you listen to this and you haven't watched the show, which as we've been told, some people sometimes do. Thanks so much for listening. But also go watch Widow's Bay and we'll be back for Euphoria Sunday night.

Rob Mahoney (61:36)

We sure will.

Jordan Robinson (61:37)

I'm not sure that was a podcast that we made on Sunday, but we're gonna do it again. Thank you to everyone who worked on the show today. Jacob Cornell, Ed's here. Kai Grady's here. I'm sure Dev is going to be working on the show in one way or another.

Rob Mahoney (61:48)

Get well soon, Dev.

Jordan Robinson (61:49)

Yeah, feel better and thanks to you, Rob Mahoney.

Rob Mahoney (61:52)

Thank you, Joe.

Jordan Robinson (61:52)

Bye.

Rob Mahoney (62:05)

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