'Widows Bay' Episodes 6-7: Generational Trauma

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast: 'Widows Bay' Episodes 6-7 – Generational Trauma

Hosts: Joanna Robinson & Rob Mahoney
Date: May 27, 2026
Episodes Covered: Episode 6 ("Our History") & Episode 7 ("Seasickness")
Main Theme: A deep-dive into "Widows Bay"’s ambitious double-episode drop, unpacking the show’s use of generational trauma, mythology, and shifting formats, with special emphasis on the big flashback episode and the return to present-day high jinks and horror.

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Episode Overview

Joanna and Rob break down Episodes 6 and 7 of "Widows Bay", a gothic horror-comedy series. Episode 6 takes viewers back to the 1700s with a lore-heavy flashback, while Episode 7 returns to the present, addressing the consequences of unearthing a legendary figure. The hosts discuss how the show balances horror and comedy, generational trauma, and the ever-expanding town mythology—juxtaposed by sharp, modern humor and character work.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Double Drop Structure & Why It Works

• [02:00] Episode 6 ("Our History") is a self-contained, period-piece flashback, while Episode 7 ("Seasickness") returns to the main timeline.

• Joanna: “So if you only watched one episode, guess what? There's another one waiting for you ... episode six was a little different, meandering, a flashback sort of contained episode.”

• Rob: “You also have to do the follow-up, moving the ball forward episode, package.”

• Both agree the double release was smart—balancing exposition dump and momentum for viewers.

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2. Crafting a Horror-Comedy with Prestige Ambition

• [03:24] Episode 6 is directed by horror luminary Ti West, giving horror authenticity.
• Rob on Ti West: “Mixed, but kind of undeniable ... the atmospheric horror that they create, really on Widow's Bay in general, but especially within these episodes, like that is the Ti west model.”
• Discussion of talent in the writers’ room: “Just an incredible assemblage of talent here.”

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3. Mailbag & Listener Engagement

• [04:32] The podcast’s community is vocal—about the show’s coverage, lore theories, and listener “babadooking” stories (social faux pas inspired by a viral tweet from show creator Katie Dippold).
• Hilarious listener email:
  Joanna (reading Janet): “Meanwhile, Widows Bay is the prestige TV podcast, Holy grail, lost level mystery severance style, puzzle box mechanics, razor sharp comedy God tier casting, genuine pathos, actual formal ambition and small detail. A masterpiece. We deserve week to week's coverage. Is Sam Levinson personally wiring money to the ringer? We are suffering.” [05:11]

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4. Episode 6: "Our History" —The Flashback

a. Betty Gilpin’s Performance

• Joanna: “She's so funny, too. And this is the least funny of all the episodes ... but even then, still kind of funny.”
• Rob: “This is really ... a very scream queen of performance, but, like, stifled by her circumstances. And I had a particularly great time with all the nonverbal stuff she was doing, like the choking down sobs, the screaming into pillows ... Just a wonderful performance.” [18:58]

b. Thematic Humor

• The running joke: Sarah (Gilpin) laments being a spinster at 14 (“I am but 4 and 10...”), highlighting the period's absurdity. [20:21]

c. Hamish Linklater’s Turn as Richard Warren

• Rob: “He is doing like a certain marble mouth thing ... a little bit sinister, but also like a little bit goofy in the way that the show likes to do.”
• Joanna critiques the vocal choice but acknowledges it fits the show's balance between horror and absurdity.

d. Lore Dump: Origins, Rituals, and the Island

• The well, door, sacrificial rituals, and the making of the island’s supernatural pact are revealed.
• Rob: “Clearly, this has been done for human sacrifices ... someone will continue parts of his work.” [24:42]
• Joanna: “It seems like, I mean, they were asking for specific instructions ... over time, it becomes part of the ritual of the town.” [25:18]

e. Episode Format Risks

• Both hosts admire the show’s confidence for doing a full-blown flashback midseason (rather than a late reveal, as most series do).
• Production value is lauded: “In a world where I'm just like volumed to death, put me in a real place where we're making like real old timey 1702 sets like chickens.” [31:51]

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5. Episode 7: "Seasickness" — Present-Day Consequences

a. Richard Warren, Comedy, and Horror Collide

• Patricia (Kathy Flynn) and Wick (Matthew Rhys) are traumatized by digging up the undead Richard.
• Joanna: “Patricia, iconic, incredible ... her, like. No, her. Forceful. No. When Tom is going to ... They're so good.” [35:28]-[35:51]
• Standout moment: Patricia leaves a note for Richard: “Are you mad at something I said?” [37:36]

b. Wick, Tom, and Richard at Sea—Jaws Homage

• Rob: “We are entering into, I would say, darker and spookier territory ... We come back in seven and we're not abandoning anything about what makes the show so funny.”
• Sea shanty written by Neil Casey with music by Arcade Fire’s Richard Reed Perry. [38:30]
• Classic “man of science, man of faith” dynamic a la LOST, plus overt Jaws reference (“The island's playing games”). [53:23]

c. Balancing Pathos and Banter

• Tom and Wick have a frank, emotional talk about trauma, guilt, and kinship.
• Richard Warren’s reflection on lost children: “I spent years thinking about how my children died.” [40:10]
• Rob: “The efficiency of that emotion ... They really sneak it in, and then all of a sudden, you feel kind of the dagger between your ribs.” [40:24]

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6. Mythology & Fan Theories

• Discussions about the survival of Richard Warren’s bloodline, the purpose of the bell, and the nature of the town’s curse.
• Joanna: “At the end...we saw Sarah get in the boat with all the children...if the story...is true, those children would have died, right?...Except for the one in the water.” [45:00]
• Rob: “I love the idea of the one in the water who got away. And now the curse lives on.” [45:18]
• Ongoing questions: Who are the “secret Warrens” among the current townspeople? Is the island’s real threat metaphorical, supernatural, or both?

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7. Comedy Highlights and Memorable Moments

Notable Quotes:

• Patty’s notepad: “Hi, my name is Patricia. Are you mad at something I said?” [37:36]
• Richard Warren’s legendary grossness: “...signing the covenant with his own blood, feces and semen...” [49:33]
• On the Vienna sausages:
  Rob: “How did you feel about, you know, Hamish Linklater as Richard Warren just straight up moaning as he eats Vienna sausages?”
  Joanna: “Tough. Really tough.” [23:35]
• On sea shanties:
  Joanna: “How do you feel about a sea shanty?”
  Rob: “I mean, I'm glad they're back. I...feared that we were done with shanties.” [38:10]

Fun Segments:

• Babadooking: Listeners’ social misfires (showing up in costumes out of season, dropping pop culture quotes no one gets, etc.). [11:04]-[13:12]
• Best joke: The notepad, rolling a suitcase menacingly, “we're weenies only around here.” [23:25], [37:36], [49:12]

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8. Category Awards and Easter Eggs

a. Best Lore Drop

• The “secret Warren” theory—the possibility that the bloodline survived through a child “in the water.”
• The recurring sacrificial rituals, supernatural “dead zone,” and the Lovecraftian tentacle at sea.

b. Favorite Character Episode

• Patricia for her comedic genius and bravado; Bashir for his resignation and sympathetic turn.

c. Best Horror Reference

• The teens watching City of the Dead (Horror Hotel)—a movie involving New England, human sacrifice, witchcraft, and a haunted hotel.
  Rob: “The fact that Evan is going to pull up a 1960 horror movie...presumably he hasn't seen doesn't even seem too interested in it.” [51:56]

d. Best Scare

• Eyeball-gouging murders in both the 1702 and present day; the emergence of Lore’s “tentacle”/sea creature; Patricia’s desperate car theft.

e. Matthew Rhys (Wick) Appreciation

• His physical comedy, boat shanties, backstory confession, and the image of him sticking his head out the window for seasickness relief. [58:08]-[59:08]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:24: Ti West in the director’s chair.
• 05:11: Listener Janet’s “Holy Grail” email.
• 18:58: Betty Gilpin’s performance.
• 24:42: Lore dump – The sacrificial rituals.
• 31:51: Discussing the production value of the flashback.
• 35:28: Patricia and the consequences of exhuming Richard Warren.
• 37:36: Patricia’s notepad joke.
• 38:30: Sea shanty and its Arcade Fire connection.
• 45:00: Secret Warren theory and the painting of the children.
• 53:23: LOST homage/comedy and horror radio static.
• 58:08: Matthew Rhys’ physical comedy and seasickness hack.

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Final Thoughts

• Joanna & Rob praise "Widows Bay" as a deft balance of genre, prestige ambition, rich lore, and genuinely funny character writing.
• The audacious midseason flashback, while breaking up the main narrative momentum, shows the creative team’s confidence and deepens the show’s mythology.
• Episode 7 is a standout—hilarious, heartfelt, and sharply self-aware, masterfully returning to the present-day tone after a lore dump.
• The mythology remains tantalizingly murky, with strong fan engagement and theories keeping momentum.

Rob: “The calibration on this show never ceases to amaze me.” [59:49]

Joanna: “Thank you to all the plagued people out there who may or may not be listening. Maybe zombies, maybe Krakens. We just hope to have your support.” [64:59]

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For next week:
Listeners are encouraged to send in theories, babadooking stories, and map-drawing attempts to prestigetvpotify.com.

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End**

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Transcript

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[Joanna Robinson]

trempha fireradio.com this episode is brought to you by America's Cookout Classics Hines, Kraft and Oscar Meer.

[Rob Mahoney]

This summer we're celebrating 250 years of American cookouts with all the classics, Heinz, Kraft and Oscar Meyer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rob, what's your ideal cookout scenario?

[Rob Mahoney]

First of all, I want you on the Ox. I trust you with that sacred responsibility to pick our music. I'm going to have to man the grill and I'm going to need like a copious amount of condiments. I need every possible fixin imaginable.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, make sure to top your burger with only the best Heinz ketchup and Kraft singles. And you know, it's not a cookout without Heinz ketchup and mustard.

[Rob Mahoney]

Different vibes, same ingredients. We all know it's not a cookout without Heinz Kraft and Oscar Mayer. Shop at your local retailer.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[Joanna Robinson]

And we're here to talk about Widows Bae episodes 6 and 7, which aired together. So if you only watched one episode, guess what? There's another one waiting for you just sitting there. Double drop. Because it was a. Episode six was a little different, meandering, a flashback sort of contained episode. And so they dropped another one just so you were like, how long are we going to be in the 1700s? Not too long. Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

How do you feel about that structure overall? Like we get a lot of, you know, the penultimate step back kind of episodes in a lot of shows right now. I kind of like it. If you're going to do it, you also have to do the follow up, Moving the Ball Forward episode package.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it was really smart to double drop them. And also we'll talk about this. But I was always watching it. I was like, wow, this is if. As if the Lost episode Across the Sea, which is a notoriously hated episode in the final season, was like in season one. Instead, there's just, like, a lot of lore info here.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's amazing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Out of the gate, I was like, that's a fascinating thing to do. Okay, so episode six, our history, directed by famed horror director Ti west, written by Alberto Roldan, who wrote On Gaslit, which I've brought up a couple times because of my fondness for Betty Gilpin. Maybe not on pod, but you've heard me reference it a couple times. Nobody talks about Gaslit. And they should, because Betty Gilpin is amazing in that. Betty Gilpin, of course, is the star of. I would say the star of episode six.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hamish Linklater is also here. We can talk about him. And then episode seven, Seasickness, directed by Sam Donovan, who also directed episode four, Beach Reads, which we loved, and written by Dave Harris, who is a staff writer. And on season one of Interview with the Vampire, one of my favorite shows of all time. So this is just an incredible assemblage of talent here. Ti West. I was asking you before we started recording, obviously, this is a huge, like, film director to get for a TV show. Where are you on the Ti west filmography? How do you feel about it?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, mixed, but kind of undeniable. You know, I think there are. There are elements of those movies where it's like, okay, is this, like, particular Hollywood homage, like a bridge too far for me? Stacked on, stacked on, stacked on, stacked within my horror movie sometimes. But, I mean, the bonafide speak for themselves and I think the atmospheric horror that they create, really on Widow's Bay in general, but especially within these episodes like that is the Ti west model

[Joanna Robinson]

for me in the Pearl trilogy. Do you have a favorite one?

[Rob Mahoney]

I guess probably just Pearl.

[Joanna Robinson]

Just Pearl. Just Pearl.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is it more complicated than that?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's just me, Cassie.

[Rob Mahoney]

Where would you go?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I think it's Pearl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The sickos say Maxine, but that's fine.

[Rob Mahoney]

They can have it.

[Joanna Robinson]

They can have it. Mailbag on that front. Speaking of Cassie, we've received, you know, we. We asked, you answered, do you want Widow's Bay coverage week to week? A lot of you said yes, these episodes are doing pretty well, so we're going to cover it week to week for the rest of the season.

[Rob Mahoney]

We also want this too.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, it's what we wanted and we just wanted the numbers to prove that it's a good move for us. So here we are.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also, on the mailbag front, I can't tell you the last time I was so delighted by the subject lines of so many emails. Babadooking so much Babadooking going on another way in which the listeners have really shown up for us.

[Joanna Robinson]

Babadooking left and right. I really do appreciate the listeners sharing

[Rob Mahoney]

their vulnerabilities with us, including the people who literally babadook.

[Joanna Robinson]

And we will share some of those with you. But first, Janna wrote in to say I need to understand why Widow's Bay has been relegated to B tier lump coverage while you continue devoting weekly attention to Euphoria, a show that is essentially a misogynistic fever dream of an aggressively mid nepo auteur whose only good season was the one built on stolen ip. Meanwhile, Widows Bay is the prestige TV podcast, Holy grail, lost level mystery severance style, puzzle box mechanics, razor sharp comedy God tier casting, genuine pathos, actual formal ambition and small detail. A masterpiece. We deserve week to week's coverage. Is Sam Levinson personally wiring money to the ringer? We are suffering.

[Rob Mahoney]

Janet, tell us how you really I

[Joanna Robinson]

just, I love that email. Euphoria is a no brainer just because it's like got three of the most famous movie stars that are currently working. We're having a fun time covering it and this is gonna come out after I guess. But we'll be covering the last two episodes of Euphoria live on Sundays. So if you wanna witness some chaos, if you want to witness me spilling several beverages all over myself, you might be able to enjoy that on a

[Rob Mahoney]

on a Sunday evening and me doing my best like Matthew Reese wide eyed stupor trying to like contain my and responding to those episodes. That will be the general vibe, the live experience.

[Joanna Robinson]

Why not Widows Bay? I will say, you know it's not just us wondering was the audience going to be there because that is a question that we had and a consideration when we pick what we want to cover. But also like I'm going to be curious what it's going to be like for us to cover a single episode going forward because this is a still a double episode drop but we're going to be covering one episode at a time going forward. They're shorter runtime episodes. It's a comedy. We don't usually cover comedy and Genre

[Rob Mahoney]

comedy, but still a comedy.

[Joanna Robinson]

So while there are sort of like lore mysteries, which of course we'll talk about this week and stuff like that, I've always. I've been wondering if there's enough meat on the bone for us to cover a single episode of Widow's Bay at a time. And we'll find out together, and I'm sure there probably will be. It's just less of a no brainer to me than, like, what the hell's happening on Euphoria? Which is, you know, I think there's

[Rob Mahoney]

like a very understandable misconception that we cover shows because, like, they're the best show or the show we love the most. And it's like there's a lot of other considerations that go into it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sometimes that's true, sometimes it's absolutely true, and sometimes we love it so much we kind of will it into being a podcast. But, like, a show like how to get to Heaven from Belfast is one of my favorites of the year. I wouldn't know, really had a podcast about it. And I would say that's a show that has a lot in common with Widow's Bay. It's a little more like comedy thriller than it is comedy horror.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But a similar, like, joke cadence baked into this other genre. Trapping it can be tricky. And especially, as you said, the runtime itself kind of decides a lot of, like, how much you can really pack into one podcast discussion episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

If I were in charge of the world, I would have done Joe, let me tell you.

[Rob Mahoney]

You are.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm not. If I were, I would have done 20 podcast episodes on the other Bennett sister. But you know what? Nobody wants to listen to that. Well, like, five of you want to listen to that, so. Okay, a couple other emails. Okay, we got several emails and comments about Evan's parentage, which is something that we, we raised last week. And we got a lot of people commenting, like, hey, didn't Tom say in episode one that his wife was already pregnant with Evan when he met her? I was like, how did I miss that? I went back and rewatched the scene. I think you could interpret it that way. The way that I interpret it is your mom was already pregnant when we got married. Yeah, that's how I interpret what he says in that scene. I can see how you could interpret it that he says, it's no secret your mother was already pregnant. But the end of that sentence to me is when we got married. So, like, it's no secret. It was like a shotgun wedding sort of thing. And I have to think Evan, the rebellious teen that he is, if, if it's an open secret that, you know, his mom was already pregnant when Tom met her and that his dad is someone else, we. We would have been hit with a you're not my real dad at some point we might still run. Anyway, if you work on Widow's Bay and you're listening to this podcast and we have heard that some people work on the show are listening to this podcast and you know for a fact about Evan's parentage, we would love an email prestige tvotify.com but would we?

[Rob Mahoney]

Because is that not gonna be potentially revealed in time?

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, could be. Could be.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think here's where I'm standing with a lot of these, like flashing back to early episode moments. Like, we got another email from Kyle, who I thought had a great call about when Tom is first talking to the reporter from the New York Times. The idea is brought up that like, if you were born on this island, you can't leave it. And Tom says that's an old wives tale, which is a great line, great dismissal in the moment, but also the tale of his old maybe dead, maybe disappeared wife young but. But no longer not old at former, former not old. And so I wonder if this is the kind of show where given the way they have so masterfully laid all of this track to this point and all of these lines that already feel different, all these moments of like Patricia calling Tom on the phone in a harried way about the cocktails and it's like, oh, now we know what that means. An episode or two later. It might just be one of those things we revisit. And the fact that it plays both ways is very much intentional.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, I still want to know, but I won't tell.

[Rob Mahoney]

Rob, tag it a spoiler in the subject line.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tell me secretly if. If Evan's parentage is supposed to be a mystery or who's. Who's reading that scene correctly, but you know, all the people wrote in and commented. He does say it's no secret your mother was already pregnant. Yeah, but if the end of that sentence is when we met or when we got married makes a difference. So. Okay, Babadooking. Did you. We got several emails from folks and if you didn't listen to us last week or if you haven't been listening at all, I will just premise that Katie Dippold, who created the show, has this great tweet about showing up in full Babadook regalia to a more what

[Rob Mahoney]

Is it like drinking wine grown ups drinking wine Vibe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Drinking wine Halloween party. And she's in full Babadook costume.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

So we were soliciting emails from our listeners of the times that they've babadooked

[Rob Mahoney]

into one scene or babadooked other people, it turns out.

[Joanna Robinson]

Sure. So did you have any that you wanted to call out particularly?

[Rob Mahoney]

I did. Joe in particular. One email we got from Matt, who accidentally babadook somebody else. Really? A sequence of events in which a party was thrown, like a big dance on Halloween and then a follow up event from a sister organization was thrown following up in March the following year at a later time. And someone who attended the first dance misunderstood that you're supposed to maybe only show up in costume for the Halloween occasion and shown up to a March dance in full maleficent regalia. Yeah, I mean, that is a true Babadook.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I'm curious if it was like animated maleficent or if we're doing Jolie for Angelina ing. Like, how sharp are the cheekbones for this occasion? I would love to see the photos. Speaking of photos, our listener Alex wrote in to let us know that they literally babadook Yes, a party. And they have photographic evidence and they believe their babadooking predates the meme of the babadooking.

[Rob Mahoney]

Tremendous.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, the, er, Babadooking, if you will.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just when you thought you were living a singular life, multiple people are literally babadooking someone else.

[Joanna Robinson]

Babadook for you. The last one that I want to share is like a pop culture reference. Babadook. And who among us is not dropped a a movie quote that we thought everyone knew and we were wrong. Jamie wrote in to say I tagged along with a friend to a New Year's Eve party, and at some point in the evening, a woman whom I had made party friends with spilled her drink all over the kitchen counter. Sounds like a real Joanna move. Since it was still the holiday season, I obviously said, look what you did, you little jerk. Dead silence. So, Jamie, I see you and I would have caught your reference, but sometimes you Babadook yourself just by knowing too many movie quotes. Anything else you want to mention? Keep them coming. I'm a big fan of the Babadooking and future babadooking.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, if you find yourself a year from now having listened to this podcast accidentally babadooking yourself, I would still like to hear about it. Prestigetvpotify.com Speaking of which, we did get

[Joanna Robinson]

an email from our listener, Matt. This is pit related, so if you did not live out with a pit with us early this season, but he sent us an ad for a thing called Yinzer Palooza.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay. What?

[Joanna Robinson]

Incredible. Where they're giving away Dr. Robbie bobbleheads at this Yinzer Palooza event. And I just thought the phrase Yanzerpalooza was worth sharing.

[Rob Mahoney]

Completely worth it. Also, I'm wondering, do we have room on our shelves here for a Dr. Robbie bobblehead? If we can procure one of these somehow.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, we'll get. Well, I'll knock that fucking bonsai out of the.

[Rob Mahoney]

Straight out.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Are you kidding me? Our listener Andrew wrote in to talk about Evan at the Boogeyman house.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And comparing the story of Tom being too chicken shit to doorbell ditch wick, which wick was like, that's a failing of you, Tom. And Evan's willingness to go up to the Boogeyman house. Did you feel like this was a. An intentional parallel they were drawing between the two?

[Rob Mahoney]

Very much so. They're setting it up to see does Evan behave as Tom did or not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Rob Mahoney]

And then undercut it for comedy, for drama, for, you know, just like the jump scare, Bashir being there, basically. Like, it's. It's a great. I think. I think thematic tie in is the way to. To portray it. Right. It's just kind of an iteration of this idea that's already out there. I was struck in watching these episodes six and seven, about how much the Richard Warren story felt familiar to the boogeyman story we hear among the teenagers. Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tell me.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, when the teenagers are talking, like, maybe, honestly, maybe just trying to scare each other about what happened with the man who lived in this house, it was like they couldn't. They tried to shoot him. They couldn't kill him. They had to bury him in cement. And then we see what happened to Richard Warren. He's, like, stabbed repeatedly. Couldn't kill him. Had to bury him underground. It's like, you know, the Boogeyman story feels like a modernization of the Richard Warren myth.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's funny because I was thinking about when Bashir is talking to Patricia about, like, a town council is amassing to do something about town.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, an action committee.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, an action committee. I'm like, what is that group in the flashback episode is not an action committee.

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, all this has happened before. All this will happen again. Jo.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. Caitlin wrote in with some experts, some notes for Jerry, our favorite historical society, I think the lone employee of the historical. The Historical Society.

[Rob Mahoney]

Jerry of the Historical Society of the Historical Society.

[Joanna Robinson]

Caitlin wanted to say, I Did archival studies. And you do not wear cotton gloves to handle archival materials. The industry standard is, you know, I love an expert email from someone.

[Rob Mahoney]

You really do.

[Joanna Robinson]

The industry standard is nitrile gloves, which I believe is, you know, what we snap on when we're giving TV recommendations. Theoretically, though, thoroughly washed and dried hands work great, too. Cotton is more likely to tear the materials and leave fibers behind. Honestly, the entire way that she. Jerry of the Historical Society handles the book and the page is a hot mess. Though if she's never gotten formal archival training, never been off the island, question mark.

[Rob Mahoney]

How could she?

[Joanna Robinson]

She just isn't knowledgeable about proper procedure. So Caitlin giving some grace.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

For Jerry. But also saying, your procedure is shit, Jerry, and you don't deserve to be near a historical document.

[Rob Mahoney]

It feels fair. Jerry's doing the best she can. You know, we're all working with what we got.

[Joanna Robinson]

Last email from Dave. You asked our listeners to come up with names, or asked me at least to come up with a name for what my bookmobile might.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Have you given it any thought?

[Joanna Robinson]

I did not give it any thought.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you for taking my consideration seriously.

[Joanna Robinson]

Definitely forgot you asked me that. But I did read Dave's email. He wrote Jordan like Borders, but Joe Jordan.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a text only jokes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yep. Barnes and Joel works a bit better. I do like Barnes and Joval and Joval Library. Like mobile library, but Joval Library. Can we do better pressage [e-mail]?

[Rob Mahoney]

let's keep workshopping.

[Joanna Robinson]

He also expected, like, he was trying to do a Joanne Fabrics joke, but he wrote Joanne yarns and it's not really. It was. It was stretching. Dave, I appreciate you. You're the only one who remembered this. I didn't. So I appreciate.

[Rob Mahoney]

How do you feel? We've never talked about this about just Joann's. I imagine it happens a lot to you where people call you Joanne instead of Joanna. Like, do you. Is there a blood feud? Is there a rivalry?

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I embrace the Joanns of the world.

[Rob Mahoney]

Really.

[Joanna Robinson]

Johanna is the problem. I get a Johan. I often said that. Yeah, you're like, Johannes are the real problem in the world. Shout out to the Johannes out there. Do you have a. A Robert, Bert, Rob, Beto issue with

[Rob Mahoney]

anything before this podcast? Joe compared me to Beto o' Rourke and I can only imagine an unflattering way because I don't know what else to take it. It was very rude. It's just. Just the meanest thing you've ever said to me. Absolutely fucked up. But I will say my mortal enemy is less. Even the Bobs. Frankly, there aren't many Bobs anymore. Berts are a rare breed. I'm. I'm maybe poised for a midlife transition to Bert. Maybe. Maybe that's ahead for me. At a certain point. For me, it's the Rons. You know, that's the one that people mishear. Rob as Ron and vice versa. And so we're not enemies, but it's like, we can't be allies. We're across purposes on that front. How could it possibly be on that front?

[Joanna Robinson]

It is on that front. Chris Fleming, who we brought up in last week's episode, has a great bit about how Joanne's is not Michael's. And he, like, it's really, really funny. I recommend.

[Rob Mahoney]

Gotta dig this up.

[Joanna Robinson]

You watch it. It's so funny how, like, Joanne's is, like, for the girls, and Michael's is for fake craft people.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow.

[Joanna Robinson]

But Joann's is now out of business, so rip. Okay. Should we talk about widow's pay?

[Rob Mahoney]

Why not? We probably should.

[Joanna Robinson]

What a concept. All right, so our history. A significant departure.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

But your first, like, real experience with. With the actress Betty Gilpin.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

How did you enjoy your experience here?

[Rob Mahoney]

Delightful.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's great.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's really wonderful here. I mean, this is really. I mean, true to the direction and the theme of the show, like, a very scream queen of performance, but, like, stifled by her circumstances. And I had a particularly great time with all the nonverbal stuff she was doing, like the choking down sobs, the screaming into pillows, like, the, like, random yelps she would let out as she's trying to, like, formulate her thoughts to not get murdered by her husband. Just a wonderful performance.

[Joanna Robinson]

I just think she's so funny, too. And this isn't. This is the least funny of all the episodes. Obviously, like, the horror is, but even

[Rob Mahoney]

then, still kind of funny.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like her when she's trying to get the council to kill her husband, and she just, like, gives this little clap, like, let's go. Or they're like, go get the children. She's like, my children. I just met them. But the killer. And I know I might be stepping on, like, our joke category that we're gonna do later, but my favorite is, like, the runner through the episode is like, I'm so old. I never thought I would get married at this age. I'm so old. I'm so old. And then at one point she says, I am. I am but 4 and 10, and I will wither in my father's attic. So she's supposed to be 14. This, like, old mate at 14. And I just love. I mean, like, obviously Betty Gilbert is not 14, but she was just sort of like. But 4 and 10. And I was like, wait, did I. Did I hear that correctly? So, yeah, the whole, like, I'm too decrepit to be married at 14 in the 17.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, her life is over. You know, she is a spinster and a treacherous. It turns out. I also. I think the moment where I knew, again, not having a lot of Betty Gilpin experience to date, that I was in, like, really good hands is like, we open with her, you know, writing some of the diary that we later get the full tie in as far as the who was going to kill me. Lol. Jk. He's right here in the room. We get the full backstory for that. But the initial diary entry, like, the moment she almost has, like, a twinkle in her eye, the moment she dares to wish for, like, to God that her husband be handsome. And I'm like, okay, there's, like, there's something here that I'm already so interested in. And she delivered, I would say, at every step in this episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you aware of the. The Broadway show oh, Mary at all?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm actually not.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. It's a great, like, body retelling of Mary Todd Lincoln and a fantastic show. Betty Gilpin is the first actor who, like, took over for the original actor who did the role. And my sister saw Betty Gilpin in this role, and she was just like. It's sort of similar to this, like, in the way that you can do physical comedy wearing, like, so many skirts. Like, how you navigate it is incredible. I just think she's so talented. I'm so happy she's here. Hamish Linklater is also here. I will say, this is not my. I love Hamish Linklater. This is not my. He's making a real vocal choice.

[Rob Mahoney]

He is. How would you describe it?

[Joanna Robinson]

Sonorous.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sonorous is a great way to describe it.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. I'm just like. I feel like if I. If I were directing this episode, if I were. Ty west or any.

[Rob Mahoney]

People do often confuse the two of you.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's true. You've got the Beto energy. I've got that tight west energy.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think you won that one.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I heard. And he was like. And Hamish came in and he's like, I'm gonna go with this. I'd be like, let's run it back and try again. Maybe not, but I Mean, he's. He. He has more to play with in the. In the second episode than he does here. Here he's just like, really the heavy, the villain. What did you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

It does feel like he's kind of setting up the voice too, to be like, maybe not so jarring if he went from speaking like a normal person to all of a sudden gruff, like dust for vocal cords. So, yeah, he is doing like a certain marble mouth thing. Yeah, that did work for me. And I think kind of it makes it, yes, a little bit sinister, but also like a little bit goofy in the way that the show likes to do and the way that they're playing with those extremes with this character, I thought was really nice. And it's a classic thing that Widow's Bay is starting to establish in its pattern, its rhythms, where you have these horrific things that happen or these really terrifying things that happen, and within an episode or two, we're sending them up already. And to me, Richard Warren is the perfect example of that. Of, like, he's murdering people left and right, or like leaving them for dead as human sacrifices. However you want to think about it. Sarah is clearly in danger. His kids are potentially in danger. And yet an episode later, we're just doing like, fuck you gags with Matthew Reese and eating Vienna sausages. It's all ribs and Vienna sauce as

[Joanna Robinson]

far as last meals go.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Where does Vienna sausage out of a can rank for you?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, he seemed to really enjoy himself.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's true.

[Rob Mahoney]

How did you feel about, you know, Hamish Linklater as Richard Warren just straight up moaning as he eats Vienna sausages?

[Joanna Robinson]

Tough. Really tough.

[Rob Mahoney]

So it would be low on my list. But who among us hasn't had a Vienna sausage moment? You know, for like a six year old boy? It's like, oh, my God, Vienna sausages. This is incredible.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can I offer you a one up from Vienna sausages for a six year old boy? Beanie weenies.

[Rob Mahoney]

See, aren't they. Are they not based on the sausage?

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, it's merely a Vienna sausage, but you add beans.

[Rob Mahoney]

See, I'm out. I'm not interested in the beanie element of the beanie weenie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you serious?

[Rob Mahoney]

We're weenies only around here.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's the quote card. All right. Okay. I don't want to step on our, like, lore category that we have, but it's robust. Just a massive lore dump inside of this episode. The well is here, the door in the chair in older guys. How do you feel about, like, I feel like you had your Theory validated where you were like when we first saw the chair in front of the rusted metal door and you're like, I feel like that's been there forever. I was like, that door looks more modern. You're like, perhaps it was once a wooden hatch. And lo and behold, you nailed it. So, like, what's your current interpretation of the door chair setup that we get?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, I mean, clearly this has been done for human sacrifices. I think the trail of blood leading from the chair to the then wooden hatch would suggest it.

[Joanna Robinson]

The hunk of hair.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I mean, hair is the new teeth in this episode. There's just clumps of hair. We're constantly being told like, oh, it's pretty gross. Yeah, I feel great about all of that paying off. And to me it feels like an extension of what Richard Warren is telling the priest and the townspeople before he's buried of like, this is the covenant that we make here on the island. And so even though he is being buried underground, someone will continue parts of his work.

[Joanna Robinson]

And it seems like, I mean, they were asking for specific instructions.

[Rob Mahoney]

So what do we do?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so over time, it becomes part of the ritual of the town. Over time.

[Joanna Robinson]

Is it every year? How many do do people on the island living right now know? Does like, yes, a Rosemary know, like who's doing it?

[Rob Mahoney]

This is, I think one of the genius parts of this show is the who knows what and who is in on it. Like, there is a small town conspiracy potential story within this one. And even Tom is kind of a part of that. Right. Like we open the show and the way we're conditioned as viewers as like inherent skeptics of the supernatural, at least that's where I'm coming to it from. I'm like, oh, you know, some of this spooky stuff might be real, some of it might be fake. I'm kind of like in a what I thought was a Tom perspective as far as what the supernatural elements of the island might be. But he. We get pretty hard confirmation within these episodes that he knows like for a fact if you leave the island as a native born person, you will die. Like, my son is locked here in a hell prison.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. He at least believes like having seen whatever it was that happened with his wife and we get more lore information there. You know, he's at least believes it enough to not risk it with Evan for sure.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so this is a thing that he firmly believes and yet to everyone else in the world is like downplaying it. Don't worry about It. That's. That's an old wives tale, etc. Etc. And so that could be going on in some form or fashion, you would think, with basically anyone else who lives here. Like, given the soot that they inevitably have seen, how could you not be a part of it in some way or another?

[Joanna Robinson]

Or is there no one doing it and that. That's why the island is, like, angry.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, that's definitely part of the problem,

[Joanna Robinson]

that they're gonna have to feed it

[Rob Mahoney]

someone, whoever was the last mayor was keeping up to date with the human sacrifices. And Tom, I mean, like many things in Widow's Bay, really slacking, really slacking on the job.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

Civic services just aren't what they used to be.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, are you satisfied with the well? Like, do we need more information about the well?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, we know it's part of the network.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's very lofty, honestly.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, look, it's. It's. This is the most. This is the most lost part of the show. We are making our own kind of music. We are singing our own special songs. I like that it's part of the network, but I also kind of would have loved if the well was something even discreet and spookier. The fact that the payoff for looking down into this chasm of a well and seeing the, you know, the specter of death and then committing suicide or being hung on your own door, is that. I guess it's just kind of connected to everything else.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or did he go down there and see the chair?

[Rob Mahoney]

You don't go down the well.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, he might have.

[Rob Mahoney]

You shouldn't.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. One should not. Can I tell you my. I'm gonna skip ahead to my favorite bit of lore. So, PJ Glanville, as played by Beck Nolan.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Evan's terrible friend is alive when she gets to the island.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very confusing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or his ancestor.

[Rob Mahoney]

It could be his ancestor.

[Joanna Robinson]

A Glan. A previous Glanville.

[Rob Mahoney]

A striking resemblance.

[Joanna Robinson]

But he's the. I was like. As soon as I saw him, I was like, oh, are they gonna populate the whole thing with actors we recognize from the town? But he's the only one. Yeah, and that makes it even spookier and more fun.

[Rob Mahoney]

What do you think he is?

[Joanna Robinson]

So a babadook on Reddit. A while ago, someone had a PJ Glanville. I was actually just looking up who the actor was, and this Reddit thread popped up. Okay. So I posted a few days ago about how I thought there might be something wrong with one of the teenagers after the Reverend saw them and said there is an evil here. While looking at the group, we now know he was wandering around with his third eye open. What did he see?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh shit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Tom specifically said that PJ Glanville was an awful boy. In the latest EP while he was high on shrooms. In the same app, we saw PJ try to convince Evan to go into a dangerous house. So what's the deal with PJ Glanville? Oh my God, I'm excited.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's been here all along, right under our noses.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm thrilled. Like, I don't know what the answer is going to be and maybe it'll be nothing, but I'm just like off Island Girls. You are off the hook because I think the villain in the Volvo is PJ Glenville. I'm excited.

[Rob Mahoney]

It seems safe to say. Yeah. What. What he be up to? Is it a he? Is it the island inhabiting a human

[Joanna Robinson]

form, the embodiment of the island Trickster teen?

[Rob Mahoney]

One can only dream.

[Joanna Robinson]

I hope so. There's always been a PJ Glanville every generation on the island.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow. I would say even more than every generation and more than just on the island, there are trickster chains everywhere. For the for those who care to

[Joanna Robinson]

look Anything else specifically you want to say about episode five? And this is an unfavorable compare. I did like this episode. I would say I think it's my least favorite episode of the season.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, it's a break from all the characters we like and care about.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. Though it does end with Wick and an incredible needle drop. Brandy is one of my favorite songs of all time. Guardians tried to ruin it, but it is like such a jam.

[Rob Mahoney]

Could not ruin it for you and

[Joanna Robinson]

I let the credit the full credits play both times I watched this episode just so that I could hear Brandy like all the way through. I love that song. But last week I was on the Watch and Chris after episodes four and five, Widows Bay. Chris is making the argument that like if episode six is an absolute banger, four, five and six will be like ending Queen incredible run of TV episodes. And we were talking about other incredible runs like Buffy Season two is one. I always bring up the end of season three of Lost. You know, like, you know, like what's a great run of episodes on a show. His definition of run was anything more than two. I think six like is enough of for me a step back in like my overwhelming enjoyment of Widow's Bay that I would not call that like a I. You know, you could do 6, 3, 4, 5 if you wanted to like sea hag it up, like I would support that. But I don't think I would put six in like an all timer run. But I really loved seven and so, you know, like again, it was a great idea to double drop them. And it did remind me of like American Horror Story. So it gave me some like just apologize right now. Some like Roanoke flashbacks, but, but also like the, the witch, like, you know, some, you know, pilgrims are scary people.

[Rob Mahoney]

They can be. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Whoever they cast to be like the Doctor's severe wife, future zombie.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's been in a lot of stuff. I really like her a lot.

[Rob Mahoney]

Really, really wants her.

[Joanna Robinson]

She's got a great voice. I love her.

[Rob Mahoney]

Does have a great voice, Has a great look for it. I'm with you. That it's not as dynamite and propulsive as those previous episodes. It strikes me as the kind of thing that is probably for the greater good of the season. The greater good, yeah, yeah. We simply have to talk small town conspiracies. Like it's baked into the formula.

[Joanna Robinson]

There's hot fuzz maybe.

[Rob Mahoney]

So I think we are stepping back. We're explaining a lot of things in a way that I would rather do this now than later.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe there is a more artful way to do it without the flashback in real time where you're still with all the characters you're invested in. That's something you could probably do. I didn't mind it as much here and frankly, I did appreciate the confidence of this episode because this is the kind of episode that we really usually only get in as you alluded to a final season or at least like a season two or three. Something where like the proof of concept is established, the show is a hit. And part of the reason is like these are not cheap episodes to make. You have to. Oh yeah, you know, barring like one teen who is mysteriously still alive and well, do a whole new cast, you bring in guest stars. You have to have like new costuming. I mean the chickens alone, the chicken wranglers are such divas. You have to build log cabins whole cloth. It's not a cheap thing to do. And I would say I appreciate that. Widow's Bay is like already coming out with the confidence of a show. They can deliver on that kind of thing. And also like I'll do credit to Apple who like, they do put their money out there in terms of production. And so in a world where I'm just like volumed to death, put me in a real place where we're making like real old timey 1702 sets like chickens. I'm just, I'm just going to salute that on principle. Even if the episode isn't as good as the episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I agree. Like I, I appreciate it. I'm glad it wasn't like a penultimate before the finale episode. I, I'm glad they put it mid season. I just wouldn't say four. Built to five. Built to six, you know, necessarily.

[Rob Mahoney]

Here's the thing. So if we didn't have the flashback and we just dug up Richard Warren and we still have basically the same kind of tone and comedic beats, and Hamish Linklater still gets to do his thing, do we miss a ton? So, I mean that might be the tell that maybe we just didn't need to do this in the first place.

[Joanna Robinson]

But now we know some like, you know, packs and you know, we do. We do. We know that the it was starving. The demon was starving and so was he. I don't know. I just think it's, I think it's super interesting to give us as much lore info as they gave us in this episode. And I'm glad to have it.

[Rob Mahoney]

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[Joanna Robinson]

Let's talk about episode seven. I think this is great. Tom brought in after his drug trip. Patricia and Wick have already been.

[Rob Mahoney]

They've seen some shit.

[Joanna Robinson]

They've been wounded by the capsule. We dug. We dug him up. Yeah, we dug him up. He's alive. He's alive upstairs. I mean, Patricia, iconic, incredible. Her, like. No, her. Forceful. No. When Tom is going to. Yeah. I know that our Widows Bay pods are just us repeating, like, Patricia jokes,

[Rob Mahoney]

but, like, what else are we to do?

[Joanna Robinson]

They're so good.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is the thing that I was so impressed with in seven, though, is like, clearly, especially from six, we are entering into, I would say, darker and spookier territory overall. Like, it's just a slightly different tone in six. We come back in seven and we're not abandoning anything about what makes the show so funny. And, like, you can just slink right back in.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And Richard Warren is a part of it. And now like a part of literally every comedic bit of banter that's happening in this episode. And I think really what cemented it for me was everything that happens when Tom goes up to meet Richard Warren for the first time. And the two Patricia cut ins of, like, I'm just going to leave you two to talk. And then also, I forgot my purse. Like, I. Again, it's like horror is so atmospheric. And I thought this episode in particular was a great reminder that, like, comedy can live anywhere. Right? Like, you can set that, you can set that and then you have the jump scare be a great joke.

[Joanna Robinson]

Basically, the way they framed him sitting on the corner of the bed like that in the dark. And we don't see his, like, ashen face yet and stuff like that. And is very scary. Like, it's really good and it's moving.

[Rob Mahoney]

All that scene is moving so slowly, just ratcheting up.

[Joanna Robinson]

And then like, you know, Matthew Reese is giving us all the physical comedy we could hope for. I genuinely think. And again, I'm stepping on some categories, but I genuinely think the funniest joke of the whole season, perhaps for me, is the notepad, which is like, hi, my name is Patricia. And then are you mad at something I said? Like, someone in Ryers room was just like, what's the most Patricia thing we could put on this notepad? And it's to the undead man from 1702. Are you mad at something I said? Not sorry you were locked in a coffin for hundreds of years. But is this about me and is it something I said? I think it's so funny.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think we gotta say, not only is that one of the best gags of the season, this is the most elite notepad show I've ever seen.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, we just had so many moments pay off of. It's just literally like a pan to what someone has written down on a pad of paper. And it's funnier than you're going to see in basically other comedy rolling right now.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really agree. And then this, you know, it goes and we get the Patricia Bashir sort of side quest, which is incredible and iconic and really, really good. And then we get Wick and Tom and Richard Warren out on the sea, and we get the most overt Jaws reference yet. How do you feel about a sea shanty?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, I'm glad they're back. I thought we were. I was. I feared that we were done with shanties.

[Joanna Robinson]

We did the pandemic. There was the shanty revival.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, no. Earlier this season, I'm talking about we got one breakthrough shanty, and I'm like, is that gonna be it?

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

But no, we're on the seas doing the shanties almost in, like, a round.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you happen to notice who wrote this sea shanty?

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, so. Lyrics by Neil Casey, who is a writer on the show and plays the innkeeper on the show, who's. So he did the lyrics of who Will Be the Last Man? Music by Richard Reed Perry of Arcade Fire fame. This is an Arcade Fire shanty.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's the Apple money. Who can we get to write our shanty?

[Joanna Robinson]

No Arcade Fire.

[Rob Mahoney]

Why not?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah. I loved this. I thought this was so good. This is a very Jaws show me the way to go home definitely sort of moment. But I thought this was a. I mean, to our irate listener who was like, why aren't you covering Widow's Bay week to week, the pathos here. So we have Patricia genuinely crying when Bashir is driving her home and she thinks he's driving her to the station. And she has thrown herself comedically on the sword of, like, Tom, I got this. And, like, getting herself in trouble once again. But Bashir is just sort of like, he's being sympathetic to her. He's gonna take Patricia home. And he's also like, tell me what the fuck is going on. And also, I don't care.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm over it. I am done.

[Joanna Robinson]

So funny. Really good. Worried about you, Bashir. And then Tom and Wick out on the boat. Wick sort of giving his tragic backstory of what happened with his best friend and his girl, Jerry, Jer kicking his friend off, you know, like, this trauma that he has. And then, like, Tom throwing him overboard to save him and, like, rescuing him. Like, there's just, like, some real emotion and bonding and sort of like you have it in you, Tom, like, mutual respect building that's happening between these characters. I care about them so much, and I care about the relationships that they're building with each other.

[Rob Mahoney]

Even the line from Richard Warren when they take him to the Richard Warren Museum about how he spent years thinking about how his children died. I'm like, this is a throwaway line sandwiched between a bunch of jokes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I'm just like, show me my children's things.

[Rob Mahoney]

The. The efficiency of that emotion, I think, is one of Widow's Bay's, like, strongest suits. Like, they just. They really sneak it in, and then all of a sudden, you feel kind of the dagger between your ribs as you're trying to walk through the rest of the episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love that. Can I spoil another one of the jokes that I do?

[Rob Mahoney]

You want to just jump to those. You just want to get into the category.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. Anything else you want to say in a big picture way before we do that?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think let's just get into it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Don't say I didn't warn you. Is it. Is it in the gift shop? Like, the dissonance of being a man from 1702, buried alive for hundreds of years, coming back and seeing your life, your children's objects in a museum, this paper mache replica of your hated second wife.

[Rob Mahoney]

Have questions about that.

[Joanna Robinson]

And. And then a T shirt with your face on it, and it says, don't say I didn't warn you. I mean, who came up. Did Jerry come up with that?

[Rob Mahoney]

Must have.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Literally. Who else works here?

[Joanna Robinson]

I love that.

[Rob Mahoney]

But also the restraint of the show. Like, another show might have come up with it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But at some point, it would be like Richard Warren's clothes get tattered and he has to literally wear the shirt. It's like, no, this is just in the background.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's just hanging on the wall.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's just there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not even in, like, full light. No, I was just like, what does that say?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, but also, we need those shirts. We really, really do.

[Joanna Robinson]

We do. All right, let's do the categories. Best bit of lore. We've already talked about plenty of this. What do you want to add?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, there's so much here. Okay, I have a couple questions, slash, general comments on what's happening here. The bell tolling. So we hear the bell's toll on Richard and Sarah's wedding night. He goes off into the dark, comes back, and this is when she finds him, like in communion with whatever beast he speaks to.

[Joanna Robinson]

From that.

[Rob Mahoney]

Are we to interpret that the bells tolling is like calling for the Lord Protector of the island? Is it for the sacrifice or is it for like a meeting? You know, is it, Is this the, the, the calendar? If the apocalypse comes, be me, basically.

[Joanna Robinson]

Maybe that's, that's curious. I don't know. I was thinking of sort of like, it's time.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm hungry.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do you remember? Yeah. Do you remember? It's a dinner bell. Do you remember what the Reverend read about, like, should the bell chime?

[Rob Mahoney]

We might, we might have to go back into the archives on that one. I can't remember exactly what the language was. Yeah, it was, it was basically like if the bell chimed, like, shit's about to go down. Getting real.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, it was definitely to that effect.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's. I'm hungry.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, one could follow the other.

[Joanna Robinson]

A little Shop of Horrors.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's the general vibe around here these days. Yeah, but what else is going on? I mean. Yeah, so, like, the idea of the pact, we kind of covered that a little bit in terms of the sacrificing of life. Yeah. The plague slash zombieing happening. I guess they're not really zombies.

[Joanna Robinson]

When Richard Warren is communing with the mushrooms or whatever it is he's doing, he's got the, the eyes rolled back in the head and the mouth open. Is that supposed to invoke the mouth open at Patricia's, like, witching party. I can't remember if their eyes were rolled back in their head when they were doing it.

[Rob Mahoney]

They had their eyes, I think, more fully fixed forward. But also, I don't know if that's something that Hamish Linklater could do or if that's a contact lens situation or just like cgi.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, that had to be contact.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. Some people can do that shit.

[Joanna Robinson]

Can they?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, if they're in communion with

[Joanna Robinson]

the Beast, you can roll your irises all the way to the back of your head.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think some people can do it, but I, I, There may be something to it. Especially when you think about the idea of, like, this is a man who has sold his soul of, like, the extraction of even this kind of communication that would, that would make sense to me.

[Joanna Robinson]

A plague, a pact.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

P.J. glanville, the door. Well, from Wick talking about, you know, it's not just, should you cross past this buoy, the light lights up, you've gone too far.

[Rob Mahoney]

The dead zone.

[Joanna Robinson]

The Dead zone, A Stephen King novel. But also, it struck from below. Struck hard. Saw a tentacle. There's like a Kraken.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's gotta be.

[Joanna Robinson]

Did you think about Buffy at ET Starting with your bottom?

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, I did not. But this is why we do this podcast. You can remind me of the Buffy references I have missed.

[Joanna Robinson]

So there's a critter in the water. There's tentacles in the water.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, now. Now we're just getting real Lovecraftian with it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's. Here's my real question. Here's a real question I have. Okay, that was a. Also a real question, but here's a real question. So Richard Warren says, kill me.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

You end my bloodline. And if you end my bloodline.

[Rob Mahoney]

Do we have secret Warrens?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, at the end of the. Okay, so he says, if you end my bloodline packed over, we're done. We saw Sarah get in the boat with all the children.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And, like, you know, if. If the. If the story of the. Of the island is true, those children would have died, Right?

[Rob Mahoney]

Presumably.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

Except for the one in the water.

[Joanna Robinson]

Except for the one in the water.

[Rob Mahoney]

Wow, Joe, you've outdone yourself.

[Joanna Robinson]

We get that close up on the painting of the one in the water.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought the painting of the one in the water or the zoom in and the revisiting of that was great. I almost interpreted watching as just like, oh, we're kind of like, closing this loop. They all died was kind of my assumption, but I love the idea of the one in the water who got away. And now. Now the curse lives on.

[Joanna Robinson]

And who.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, my God.

[Joanna Robinson]

Who is this Is of the bloodline.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, how do we identify a Warren, do you think? Like, what are the telltale signs?

[Joanna Robinson]

We're going to be the Historical Society on the case, I think.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's get the. Let's get the genetic code down. Let's figure out, like, the biometric markers. There's a lot to be answered for.

[Joanna Robinson]

Presshtvpotify.com if you have a secret Warren theory. Is it Rosemary? Is it, like.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, Rosemary would be among the funniest possible options.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, who is it?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's gotta be someone who has been introduced but hasn't been significant enough in terms of what they've been given to do yet. So maybe it is Dale. Maybe Dale is the secret Warren.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm excited to find out, but while

[Rob Mahoney]

we're out at sea. So going beyond the dead zone is what causes people to die?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's also the limit of the covenant with Richard Warren and the island or the beast or whatever. And so, like, I guess, is the best way we know to explain what is happening in terms of the very existence of Widow's Bay. Like, the people who are going out past the dead zone and dying, are they products of the magic that made the island sustainable and thus that's why they're dying, do you think? Or is it simply that there's a sea creature out there who's scooping them up and eating them?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, yeah, the tentacle was like a new added. Because I figured, like, given what we saw in the flashback with Tom and his wife, it's just like you go past this barrier, right. Some shit happens to you internally.

[Rob Mahoney]

But what if the tentacle isn't real? Like, what. What if it was? You know, like his friend fell in the water? I mean, you got to be really wary about metaphorical tentacles. Like, they will do damage to your

[Joanna Robinson]

side of the darkness of your heart,

[Rob Mahoney]

you know, that's the one I'm worried about the most.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so, like, I don't know what's real and what's kind of in these characters imaginations sometimes. And like, we've even seen that with kind of Tom and the haunted hotel. Right. It's like this is a thing that's like kind of a nightmare, but kind of real. I don't know. I don't know where one ends and the other begins. I don't know. What is the project, like, product of magic versus what is just a person literally dying because they are at sea. But I love that we don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, favorite city employee. This is usually where we talk about Patricia and it's incredible. Patricia thing. But I'm. Bashir is who I'm naming inside of.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, Bashir does have a great episode.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

But I'm like, I'm gonna zoom out and just say it's Sarah, who is the reeve, prime of the colony. And what is that if not a civic position?

[Joanna Robinson]

Great point. Point. Great point. You. You support women.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do support women, but I support Bashir as well. And yeah, his. His whole spiel with Patricia, I thought was really wonderful. Patricia stealing his car in the first place, as we gotta say, a very effective distraction.

[Joanna Robinson]

When she goes, someone may have reported my screaming. And then. Yeah, just her. Kato Flynn comedic genius. I got this. Whenever Patricia does her, like, false, like, confidence thing, it's just really funny. And then, yeah, the whole, like, bit with the car. Tom watching with, like, his hand over his mouth.

[Rob Mahoney]

But look, if you have to smuggle out a coffin, you gotta do something dramatic.

[Joanna Robinson]

So here's my question. Bashir's like, I'm done, I'm out. I'm leaving my one week resignation.

[Rob Mahoney]

First of all, sir, there's too many episodes left. You are not leaving his pregnant wife,

[Joanna Robinson]

which is our theory that he has a pregnant wife. Like, is Bashir making. Is Bashir and his wife making it off the island?

[Rob Mahoney]

The horror movie formula tells us Bashir doubles back to help at an opportune time. Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

He's not making it. Bashir, we're rooting for you.

[Rob Mahoney]

His wife has to make it because we haven't seen her. So it's like, you can't hold this character back for so long. Introduce her and then she dies.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, if we haven't seen her because they're holding back a pregnancy reveal, which again, is just a theory that a listener wrote in. But I really think it's.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, you love to run with a pregnancy rumor.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love to look closely women's bodies and make comments about them. All right, favorite obvious joke.

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't even know what is obvious and what's throwaway anymore. So these two categories are kind of blending into one another. I'm going to say this is obvious and it's Wick circling the. The amulet around Richard Warren's neck on the portrait in Sharpie. I'm just like, this could have been him pointing to it. This could have been a camera cut. But it's like, no, let's just. Let's just really commit to it and deface this portrait.

[Joanna Robinson]

For me, it's when Richard is talking to Tom about signing the covenant with his own blood, feces and semen.

[Rob Mahoney]

See, this is a throwaway joke in part, because not just the blood, feces and semen, but the slow setting down and wiping of his fingers on his pants that might be in contention for the best. Best bit of the show so far.

[Joanna Robinson]

So good then. Yeah, throwaway joke. I'm going to give it to cast ring rollers on the suitcase. It's just there are menace and they should be stopped.

[Rob Mahoney]

What else deserves a shout out here? I think when the assassin comes for Richard Warren and Sarah has to, like, aggressively point him in the right direction to not get stabbed. Very good. Her just like dribbling the spiked brandy back into the cup again. It's like they're finding ways to just, like Undercut it ever so slightly, but it still feels menacing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right. The seduction is happening. And then she, like, takes a sw. Yeah, Betty kids. Gilpin, you genius. I love you.

[Rob Mahoney]

The way she runs into the church screaming about Richard being alive, and then has to, like, quietly curtsy when she greets the room full of people she didn't expect. It's so good.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, let's see. Then we have favorite horror movie reference, slash Easter egg.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would like to start with the black and white horror movie that Evan and Kelly are watching.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know what it is.

[Rob Mahoney]

The City of the Dead.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh.

[Rob Mahoney]

AKA Horror Hotel.

[Joanna Robinson]

Horror Hotel. Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

In the United States. But it seems like City of the Dead is the honest to goodness original title.

[Joanna Robinson]

Rob, I love podcasting with you because I was like, rob isn't gonna type in Christopher Lee and a line dialogue and figure out what.

[Rob Mahoney]

I know the voice of Christopher Lee literally anywhere. I hear it in my dreams and my nightmares, such as his power.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

So, yeah, looking up a little bit about this movie I've not seen. Have you seen it?

[Joanna Robinson]

No. I thought about watching it, but my week got busy. But maybe we should watch it.

[Rob Mahoney]

There are limits. But maybe before next week's episode, we should find time to visit it. But I did read up about it, and specifically a horror movie about a town in New England with a history of human sacrifice and witchcraft and deals with the devil and, you guessed it, a haunted hotel.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, they really know what they're doing in terms of the points of reference on this show.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Christopher Lee, our guy. This is great. I loved this.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do I think Evan and Kelly. Sorry, she's been upgraded from off Island Girl. I know her name now. It's Kelly.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Do I think Evan and Kelly are sitting down to watch Horror hotel from the 19 from 1960? I don't, but I enjoyed it, being there.

[Rob Mahoney]

They. Who do you think pulled it up? If one of them pulled it up?

[Joanna Robinson]

Evan.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is more of an Evan move.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Because Kelly would rather rifle through Tom's.

[Rob Mahoney]

Clearly. But, yeah. The fact that Evan is going to pull up a 1960 horror movie that presumably he hasn't seen doesn't even seem too interested in it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, what are the. What are the movie offerings on the island? Like, you don't think that.

[Rob Mahoney]

You don't think that the island also has Roku City? Roku City is everywhere.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. Because they don't have cell phones, so. And like, they. They're all watching, like, tube television, but

[Rob Mahoney]

they have Wi Fi.

[Joanna Robinson]

A video store. Like, A video droid. Like, what are, you know, what are we doing?

[Rob Mahoney]

When did the movies stop being shipped to the island? Like, what is the cutoff date? Because clearly they can access 1960, but I think they must have color TV. This is not all black and white.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Aren't they watching. Aren't they watching a baseball game?

[Rob Mahoney]

Or like, somebody was watching.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Or I want to say maybe there was even like a tennis match or something happening. Yeah. Maybe I'm getting my shows blending together at this.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, like, yeah, I do think they have access to television. I was just curious how, like, how many channels do you get on the island?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know, but this is apparently the movie you watch if you want to maintain respectful distance from your off island. Would be hopeful girlfriend. Like, they are very far away on that couch.

[Joanna Robinson]

But maybe he's hoping she would, like, leap up in terror and like, hop into his lap.

[Rob Mahoney]

Doesn't seem that. Doesn't seem that scary. That's where you have to go. More modern horror.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. I will also say the, you know, we are in deep, deep lost territory with a lot in this episode. The Wick Tom dynamic of, like, the man of science, man of faith, has always been there.

[Rob Mahoney]

How does it feel to say that on yet another podcast?

[Joanna Robinson]

I never tire of it. But when they're charting a course and you hear garbled chattering on the radio, Wick is like, the island's playing games. I'm just like, that's the lost shit right there.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's extremely lost shit. Also, just in terms of the horror trope part of that. I just love haunted static. Like if you, if you're on a plane or a boat and there's a ghostly voice saying, mayday, mayday, I'm fucking dialed in. I'm here. I'm going down with the ship. That's how invested I am.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love it. Best haunt, scare, spook or fright.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I think this one is going to have to be for me. Sarah trying to negotiate with plague ridden Abigail on the dock and her kind of emergence from, you know, whatever pit she has climbed her way out of.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the like tar black blood that's

[Rob Mahoney]

on her face, the bile. Like, there's just something like again, insisting she's not sick. And then there's always something about like a zombie esque kind of scream and lunge that I think is just so effective here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Was that scarier or Tom lunging for his loafer?

[Rob Mahoney]

Scarier.

[Joanna Robinson]

What do you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

Depends on if you're a loafer. You know, if You're a loafer. You don't want to see Tom coming.

[Joanna Robinson]

If you're an employee of the one gas station on the island, you definitely don't want to see Tom.

[Rob Mahoney]

But what was your biggest spooky.

[Joanna Robinson]

Honestly, we saw multiple eye gouges. A real life woman. And then also Sarah, like the paper mache.

[Rob Mahoney]

What did you make of that?

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know. Is that the go to killing move of 1702?

[Rob Mahoney]

It might have been. It was really in season.

[Joanna Robinson]

Gotta gouge those eyes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, there was something. And I wonder if that's another element where there's gonna be an eye thematic tie in of some kind. Whether it's like the demon possessed people, whether it's the people afflicted by this plague or whatever.

[Joanna Robinson]

Like, I want those eyes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Everybody's after.

[Joanna Robinson]

Ring the bell. I want those eyes.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. The fact that when given the opportunity, that's exactly what he went for on the paper mache model of his wife. One that if we're just going to talk. The construction of the show looks a lot like Betty Gilpin. They the props work and frankly all

[Joanna Robinson]

the portraits of Richard.

[Rob Mahoney]

But the in world, whoever did the in world papier mache model.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Really did her justice.

[Joanna Robinson]

Incredible work. New England's best kept secret. A moment where you thought, huh, Would it actually be nice to live here?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I didn't have that this week.

[Joanna Robinson]

I have one.

[Rob Mahoney]

Didn't have that sensation.

[Joanna Robinson]

Bashir. A nice cop. Oh, a nice local cop who you can trust.

[Rob Mahoney]

How quickly we've gone from fuck you pig to a nice cop.

[Joanna Robinson]

It just takes having one cop on the island. He has a deputy. Like there's. Because there are other people in the police station.

[Rob Mahoney]

Although this is on brand for you because the moment in which he appeals to you is the moment he quits being a cop. He's like, I'm putting in my notice. I'm out of here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Cop's so good, he doesn't want to be a cop anymore.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's. I mean, that's the catch point too. Where do you find that guy?

[Joanna Robinson]

Like on an island. I mean, a spooky haunted island.

[Rob Mahoney]

If I were to find something in these two episodes, it's not going to be in 1702 in terms of when I want to be living there. But I always would aspire to be not someone with a boat, but someone who knows somebody with a boat. And so the idea that Wick, you know, your sometimes crazy buddy could just take you out to a reasonable distance at sea who can enjoy a day

[Joanna Robinson]

like that I got served a video that I almost sent to you of Matthew Reese being interviewed for Eater. And it was so. It was like a great. Because I guess he like owns a scene seafood restaurant in New York. We should go, don't you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

On company dime.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's research.

[Joanna Robinson]

So he's like sitting there with the interviewer eating like lobster rolls and like baked oysters and talking about like his, his like seafood. Talking about Widow's Bay, but talking about this like seafood restaurant that he owns. It's like a little seafood shack on a dock. And then also I guess he owned a boat at one point. And so the interviewer is like, why was your boat named Rarebit? Like Welsh Rarebit was named Rarebit. And he's like, oh, that's what it was named. It's. It's like a superstition thing. You're not supposed to rename boats.

[Rob Mahoney]

I didn't know that.

[Joanna Robinson]

I didn't that either. He's like, but it was kind of. I bought a wooden boat. I thought it would be charming. Turns out it was a lot of upkeep. So I sold the boat. I don't have it anymore.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's so much work.

[Joanna Robinson]

But he does not have a boat. But he probably knows someone who has a boat. But was. This is just for me. Sorry, this is not great podcasting. I found, like at the very end of the episode, we see the interviewer. It's my friend Nadia who used to work for Eater Austin and now she works for Eater New York.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I was like, Nadia, breaking Matthew Reese news. Get to the bottom of the boat business.

[Joanna Robinson]

Matthew Reese. I was so excited. I was like, wow. First of all, I didn't know she had moved to New York years ago. And secondly, I didn't know she's out here interviewing Matthew Rees. You should watch that interview. It's very charming. He's talking about seafood and Widow's Bay. And it's great.

[Rob Mahoney]

This is how people keep up with each other in modern times. You know, in 1702, you're just walking across town trying not to trip over over a chicken as you implore the help of a preacher. Now you're like, hey, here's my friend who I didn't know lives in this other city. And I find that out via an Eater New York video.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, the in screen reel delivered for me. Thank you so much. All right, the Rhys piece. Anything you want to say about Matthew Rhys that we haven't already?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, I think the specific recoiling he does when Richard Warren speaks For the first time after the notepad shenanigans have begun. Like pops out of his chair, fully recoils, does like a hold his breath and puff his cheeks, kind of like form of terror. He's just inventing new ways to be scared. I'm loving it. And as a counterpoint to that, by the end of that episode, we see a part of Tom that we haven't really seen on this show, a part of Matthew recent performance that we haven't really seen on the show, which is him, like, really flexing like the. I did very fucking good. I've seen that Matthew Reese before. I love that version of Matthew Reese. Tom just usually isn't that kind of guy and frankly, hasn't had that much to celebrate.

[Joanna Robinson]

Mine is a. Is a plussing of last week's, which was about his inability to vomit. And this is him trying to handle his seasickness by sticking his head out the window like a Labrador. He can't vomit, but he's clearly seasick. So he's just like, I get seasick very easily. I get motion sick very easily. And that is like, such a good hack. Is like, try to just inhale as many lungfuls of cold air as you can. It really helps if you're seasick.

[Rob Mahoney]

You're not going to get invited on rare bit that way.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know, and I deserve to go. All right. The root of the matter, Steven Root.

[Rob Mahoney]

So I think this is a good time to kind of revisit the tragic backstory part of that, and especially the way it's used within the show, which is, like, all of. All of these hints and. And allusions to the fact that Tom is, like, such a feckless coward of a leader, where he, like, says he's gonna, like, loosen Richard Warren's ropes a little bit and then just basically lets him out. Says he's, like, has this fake conversation with Wick about, like, should we let him out of the coffin? But also pan up and he's just sitting there at the table.

[Joanna Robinson]

That was spoiler. That's my favorite, Stephen, like, when he pops

[Rob Mahoney]

and there's just this desiccated man sitting there in the galley. But the fact that you can ground all that in this, like, very real, as you alluded to, with the pathos of the show. This, like, very real, terrifying bit of history about where Wick and Jerry and, you know, her fallen brother have come from. Yeah, it's just so artfully done and so well balanced. And the calibration on this show never ceases to amaze Me. And I would say Steven Rood is as big a part of that as anybody is.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love that. The tragic backstory of, like, us not knowing, like, the. I guess the sort of, like, subtle, offhanded way. We've learned so much about his relationship with Jerry. He's clearly, like, still, like, stuck on her. Right. Like, he still likes her.

[Rob Mahoney]

He wants to be handled with some cotton gloves.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. And so we're like, why aren't they together? They were sweethearts when they were young. What happened? Well, like, clearly overwhelmed by guilt over being involved in the death of her brother. Did he break up with her? Did she. Does she know what happened and she broke up with him?

[Rob Mahoney]

Like, well, even if she believes her brother just drowned in the ocean, emotion like that, that could be more than enough to decimate a relationship like that.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's sad.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, incredibly so.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right. Speaking of young love, Evan and Kelly.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

We didn't talk about this in the lore, but, like, this is a big reveal. Is that you and you had sort of. We had been talking about this. We weren't sure exactly what we saw when we saw Tom's wife, his old wife in the hospital bed.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's, like, very terrifying. But we see that she was still alive in some form or another after Evan's birth, which is something Evan didn't know. So to encounter photographs of yourself with your mom who you thought died before you or when you were born, and the way he says, I knew her. Yeah, I was just really. I thought that was really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a hit straight in the chest. And yet again, a moment where I think widowsbay does a great job of sort of balancing the interpretations of those photos where she does look like, just haunted and vacant enough.

[Joanna Robinson]

Again, it's hard to tell. It's a static image. You can't really tell. But like, yeah, she's kind of staring off in the distance. So was she just, like, not there?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And that. And so they, like, hid the truth,

[Rob Mahoney]

or is it a tasteful, candid.

[Joanna Robinson]

We can never know?

[Rob Mahoney]

We really don't know. But I think we have to talk about Kelly by association. Like, these off island girls only want one thing, and it's to rifle through all of your parents stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you out on the off island girls now?

[Rob Mahoney]

She just. The way she goes from, oh, who's

[Joanna Robinson]

not supporting women now?

[Rob Mahoney]

The way she goes from, I'm just sitting on this couch, not paying attention to this old horror movie to. Can we just ransack your dad's room?

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, I like that they've seated that before with you noted this. Evan just going through his dad's desk.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, like. But he's like, you know, even he

[Rob Mahoney]

seems a little hesitant.

[Joanna Robinson]

The locked box at the bottom of the trunk, and she takes a paperclip and just like.

[Rob Mahoney]

That is not how. She is a bad influence on him.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. You know, they're too fast.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're way too fast for our boy Evan. You know, he needs to be protected. He's a sensitive boy.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, any theories that we haven't talked about already? I don't have anything beyond the. The secret Warren idea.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, honestly, I don't have anything else. I think we covered pretty extensively all the lore that these episodes dredge up, and frankly, we don't even know what to make of it all yet. But I don't know. I. Here's. Here's a question. Do you think that the underground tunnels. We know that they go to the well. We know that they connect to the sacrificial chair.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Which I believe we were shown to be almost directly underneath the salty whale. But do we know where, geographically speaking, in Widow's Bay Richard Warren's house would have been?

[Joanna Robinson]

I wonder if it's Tom's house.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is it just that simple that it's true? But that doesn't feel like a house he, like, got when he became mayor.

[Joanna Robinson]

You're right. You know, that's the house he raised.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Evan's been there his whole life. I would assume it still could be.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know if you can draw us a map of Widow's Bay.

[Rob Mahoney]

We love a map.

[Joanna Robinson]

We would love to have it. If you have more babadooking to share with us, we would love to hear it. If you think my comparison of Rob and Beto o' Rourke is accurate, we

[Rob Mahoney]

would love to hear. No, we wouldn't.

[Joanna Robinson]

We'll stop. And theories. We want your theories. I really, really want your theories. We are recording this early, so we have not had a chance to see how people are reacting to these episodes. And I'm sure there are things that the Reddit detectives got that we missed. So prestigetvpotify.com, keep those widows Bay emails coming and we will be covering this week to week for the. The rest of this season.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm really excited about it. And Al, also, before we get out of this, I want to. I want to. I feel like we bagged on episode six a little bit for just, like, not being the version of the show that we love.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not unfairly, not like, bag just like, it was just like a slight dip.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a slight dip. Something very different. But I will say, even within that, I really love the writing in episode six. Like, even stuff like, there's this line I wrote down about Cornelius Evans, who's like the infected man who gouged at his wife's eyes of like, his eyes were yellow with spoiled moons. And it's just like there are turns of phrase in that 1702 way that whether. Whether historically true or not, I fucking loved.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love it. All right, thank you to our small town that is here with us today. Jacob Cornett is here. Kai Grady's here. Dev Ronaldo's here. The Dream Team. Thank you to you listening and debating that we cover Widow's Bay. We really appreciate it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Definitely.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you. Thanks to Rob Mahoney.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you, Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

The best Robert I know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Thank you to all the plagued people out there who may or may not be listening. Maybe zombies, maybe Krakens. We just hope to have your support.

[Joanna Robinson]

And P.J. glanville.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

If you're hungry, ring that bell. We'll see you soon. Bye. Starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website to marketing, to selling and beyond. Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like

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[Joanna Robinson]

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[Rob Mahoney]

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