‘Your Friends and Neighbors’ Episodes 1-3: Your (Not So) Friendly Neighborhood Jon Hamm

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast Summary

Episode: ‘Your Friends and Neighbors’ Episodes 1-3: Your (Not So) Friendly Neighborhood Jon Hamm
Release Date: April 18, 2025
Hosts: Joanna Robinson & Rob Mahoney

---

Introduction

In this episode of The Prestige TV Podcast, Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney delve into the first three episodes of Apple TV’s new series, Your Friends and Neighbors. They provide an in-depth analysis of the show’s narrative, characters, thematic elements, and overall execution, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding even if they haven't watched the episodes yet.

---

Overview of Your Friends and Neighbors

Joanna Robinson introduces the premise of Your Friends and Neighbors, highlighting Jon Hamm’s character, Coop, an individual who seemingly has it all—a prestigious education, a perfect family, and a successful career. However, his life unravels as his wife cheats on him, he faces a complicated divorce, and he loses his job. Determined to maintain his façade of perfection within his affluent neighborhood, Coop resorts to stealing from his friends and neighbors to sustain his lifestyle.

Rob Mahoney commends the show for finding a balance between satire and sweetness, noting, “It hits a very particular sweet spot of just kind of fighting and acidic enough that it can have its moments of cultural commentary” (03:18).

---

Character Analysis

Coop (Jon Hamm)

Joanna expresses mixed feelings about Coop, acknowledging the intriguing premise but critiquing the character’s likability. She notes, “I definitely, several times wrote down like golden age of television antihero narrative” (10:16).

Rob Mahoney shares a differing perspective, stating, “I find him pretty deeply unlikable in a way that, as a TV character, I appreciate” (21:53). He appreciates Coop's self-destructive attempts at petty theft, likening aspects of the character to those in Breaking Bad and Weeds.

Notable Quote:

“Jon Hamm is a great avatar for that kind of exact zone of threading the needle tonally of what the show is trying to do.” – Rob Mahoney (03:18)

Supporting Characters

• Liv (Olivia Munn): Joanna praises Olivia Munn’s subtle comedic performance and her character’s vulnerability. Rob enjoys her dynamic with other characters, describing her as a “breath of fresh air” in the show (18:36).

• Mel (Amanda Peet): Joanna appreciates Mel’s depth, especially her interactions with Coop, while Rob hopes for a reduction in her role as a nagging wife to enhance her character’s complexity (20:40).

• Ally (Lena Hall): Both hosts find Ally’s character likable and question her disconnectedness from Coop’s main narrative, suggesting her potential as an “equalizing olive branch” to the unlikable Coop (22:31, 23:05).

---

Plot Points and Reactions

Joanna and Rob discuss significant plot developments, including Coop’s shift to stealing valuable items from his neighbors to fund his crumbling life. Joanna is both intrigued and critical of the initial slow pacing, especially the dialogue-heavy scenes that she finds “talky” (05:18).

Rob appreciates the gradual storytelling, highlighting Coop’s incompetence in criminal activities as an engaging aspect of the plot. He likens Coop’s actions to those of an “ultra wealthy person who loses their job and turns to petty theft” (07:12).

Notable Quote:

“It’s good that they're not just disposing of her or ... she really didn't want any part of it.” – Rob Mahoney (09:20)

---

Acting and Performances

Jon Hamm’s portrayal of Coop is a focal point. While Joanna finds Coop somewhat emotionally manipulative, Rob appreciates Hamm’s ability to make an unlikable character engaging. They also discuss the performances of supporting actors like Olivia Munn and Amanda Peet, praising their ability to add depth and humor to the narrative.

Mark Tallman’s character, Nick Brandis, a former NBA player, receives commendation from Rob for his nuanced portrayal. Joanna expresses excitement about Nick’s potential role in the unfolding story, especially with the revelation of his past and current dynamics (25:22, 28:16).

Notable Quote:

“He has a championship ring, which Richard Jefferson also has... he is fluent in the world of the NBA, is this a recognizable person to you?” – Rob Mahoney (25:22)

---

Visual and Stylistic Elements

Joanna and Rob analyze the show’s visual storytelling, noting the meticulous portrayal of consumerism and luxury. They discuss the balance between critiquing the affluent lifestyle and showcasing the opulence through detailed set designs and product placements.

Rob points out, “Capturing that in the filmmaking is a really delicate balance,” appreciating scenes that effectively comment on consumerism without becoming overly commercial (“extended car commercial”) (44:05).

Notable Quote:

“There's some scenes, again, where it really hits for me, and the commercialism and the dissection of why wine snobs are obsessed with this particular bottle or why you can't pour a glass of bourbon in this neighborhood without getting a TED Talk…” – Rob Mahoney (44:05)

---

Thematic Elements and Cultural Commentary

The hosts explore how the show attempts to mirror societal issues, such as the pressures of maintaining the American Dream and the facade of perfection within wealthy communities. Joanna questions the show’s relevance in the current socio-political climate, comparing it to other contemporary shows like White Lotus and Severance.

Rob acknowledges the show’s attempt at cultural commentary but feels it may not resonate as deeply as intended, emphasizing its “comfortable watchability” over profound societal reflection (41:20, 42:35).

Notable Quote:

“It's just like a comfortable watchability as we're easing through this story. And yeah, there's this cultural commentary on the side that I don't think is quite biting as we alluded to Up Top and is quite sugar co at times.” – Rob Mahoney (42:35)

---

Conclusions and Final Thoughts

Joanna and Rob conclude their discussion by weighing the show's strengths and weaknesses. They appreciate the performances, particularly Jon Hamm’s portrayal of Coop, and the intricate character dynamics. However, they express reservations about the show’s pacing, likability of the main character, and the depth of its cultural commentary.

Rob remains optimistic about the show's potential, especially with upcoming plotlines involving criminal elements and character developments. Joanna remains cautious but intrigued, mentioning specific elements like Coop’s interactions and the evolving subplot with Nick (43:41).

Notable Quote:

“I enjoy the show. I'm gonna be keeping up with it and seeing what goes on, particularly with some of these criminal element storylines.” – Rob Mahoney (43:41)

---

Key Takeaways

• Balanced Satire and Sweetness: The show successfully navigates between critiquing the wealthy and presenting likable elements for affluent viewers.
• Complex Characters: Jon Hamm’s Coop is a deeply flawed protagonist whose journey drives the narrative, complemented by strong supporting characters.
• Visual Storytelling: The lavish portrayal of consumerism adds depth but requires careful balance to avoid overshadowing the narrative.
• Cultural Relevance: While the show attempts to reflect societal pressures, it may fall short in resonating as profoundly as contemporary counterparts.

---

Notable Quotes

• “It hits a very particular sweet spot of just kind of fighting and acidic enough that it can have its moments of cultural commentary.” – Rob Mahoney (03:18)
• “I find him pretty deeply unlikable in a way that, as a TV character, I appreciate.” – Rob Mahoney (21:53)
• “Capturing that in the filmmaking is a really delicate balance.” – Rob Mahoney (44:05)
• “I enjoy the show. I'm gonna be keeping up with it and seeing what goes on, particularly with some of these criminal element storylines.” – Rob Mahoney (43:41)

---

Listener Engagement

Joanna and Rob encourage listeners to share their thoughts on Your Friends and Neighbors via the podcast’s email, emphasizing the importance of audience feedback in shaping future discussions and coverage of the show.

---

This detailed summary captures the essence of Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney’s discussion on Your Friends and Neighbors, providing insights into character dynamics, thematic undertones, and the show’s overall reception.

Transcript

[Zach Lowe]

Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe Show. That's right, I'm back to have the same in depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games. Yeah, the games, the X's and O's, the drama, the trades. The playoffs are coming up and now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel. Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love.

[Rob Mahoney]

So.

[Zach Lowe]

So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe show on Spotify or wherever you watch or listen to your podcast. Let's go.

[Shopify Ad]

This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Upgrade your business with Shopify. Home of the number one checkout on the planet. Shop pay boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning fewer carts going abandoned and more sales going cha ching. So if you're into growing your business, get a commerce platform that's ready to sell wherever your customers are. Visit shopify.com to upgrade your selling today. This episode is brought to you by Enterprise Mobility. From fleet management to flexible truck rentals to technology solutions, Enterprise Mobility helps businesses find the right mobility solutions so they can find new opportunities. Because if your business is on the road, they want to make sure it's on the road to success. Enterprise Mobility moving you moves the world. Find your [e-mail].

[Joanna Robinson]

Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson.

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm Rob Mahoney.

[Joanna Robinson]

I don't know why that intro was so aggressively enthusiastic for me, but here we are to talk about your friends and neighbors.

[Rob Mahoney]

Could I positive guess, Joe. Is it because your internal life is crumbling and you're trying to put on a brave outward appearance for your many rich neighbors?

[Joanna Robinson]

You'll hear a more sardonic voiceover version of the intro as we go forward. We are here to talk about your friends and neighbors. New Apple TV show. We are here to talk about the first three episodes of the season. They did a double premiere drop last week. We were not around to cover it. But we are here to catch up with you here on episode three. We are uncertain as of right now exactly what our cadence of coverage is going to be for this show. It's going to kind of depend on y'all. If you are loving your friends and neighbors, let us know. And I guess I just want to start out with a big picture question. Ramahony, did you like the first three episodes of your Friends and Neighbors?

[Rob Mahoney]

I did. I found it honestly, like, pretty well balanced. I think it had. It hits a very particular sweet spot of just kind of fighting and acidic enough that it can have its, like, moments of cultural commentary and it can take the potshots at the ultra wealthy, but also so much sugar that if you are ultra wealthy, you could probably enjoy this show and probably enjoy it in like a ball busting sort of way. Like Jon Hamm, I think, is a great avatar for. For that kind of exact zone of threading the needle tonally of what the show is trying to do.

[Joanna Robinson]

That is fascinating to me because I feel like it slightly tilts on the wrong side of biting satire to sugar for me, but the wrong side being.

[Rob Mahoney]

Too much sugar, I guess.

[Joanna Robinson]

Not enough. If the premise of this show, which maybe I'll tell folks if in case they're listening and haven't watched the show yet, is Jon Hamm plays a character who has done everything, quote unquote, everything right, gone to Princeton, got the right job, got the right wife, got the right car, had the two kids, got the increasingly large house and stuff like that. And then everything has just crumbled around him. His wife has cheated on him, he's. He's getting a divorce through a complicated series of moves. He has lost his job. And he is, as Rob alluded to, trying to save face with his friends and neighbors by not sharing how financially dire that is for him. And. And we go in and out of the various houses in his very, very well to do neighborhood. He lives in this. In this enclave where everyone knows everyone and they all barbecue together and they have kids that are relatively the same age and they have parties at each other's houses and stuff like that. And we're doing, you know, spouse swaps and all this stuff. You know, the privileged class enjoying their privileges. But also Jon Hamm at the end of episode one. Spoiler for the end of episode one.

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, we're covering episodes one through three, so I think it's fair.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm traumatized from the Last of us.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're treading very softly all around spoilers right now.

[Joanna Robinson]

He starts stealing from his neighbors as a way to finance his new life and stealing things that they won't miss that are absurd, obscenely valuable. And that concept I like. When that kicked in at the end of episode one, I had a really tough time with the first. I would say quarter to half of episode one.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's quite talky and quite talky in a way where you're being talked at.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I'm gonna circle back to that. When we got to, oh, Cause I didn't know the premise. I don't know. I just did no research. I came blind to this show. I've since done some research. But I was like, oh, this is the premise. He's stealing from his friends and neighbors. Like, that's fun to me. I love a heist. I love a gentleman thief. Like, that sounds quite fun. Okay, so to go back to the talkiness, the monologues, what we get sort of back to back. We get a cold open of oops, Murder or death. At least.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Joanna Robinson]

And Jon Hamm falls into a pool and the record scratch. And he's like, yep, that's me. Hey. Bet you're wondering how I got here. And then we get this bar encounter.

[Rob Mahoney]

The classic double cold open, which.

[Joanna Robinson]

That was the nadir for me. That bar encounter was the bottom of my enjoyment of the show. And then we get this rewind of. With some uncanny valley, digitally deaged Jon Hamm of his life leading up to sort of this moment. I did every. This is not my beautiful house, it's not my beautiful wife sort of thing. So, yeah, the. The bar scene, very like, two quippy, quippy characters monologuing at each other. And then this sort of him talking about the American dream and how it failed him back to back. Tough for me. Everything from there is up, up, up. So tell me how all of that landed with you.

[Rob Mahoney]

I would say monologuing at each other is maybe kind, because it's a lot of Jon Hamm's character, Coop, going on an extended monologue. And Liv, this woman he's talking to, like, has her banter and has her moments and gets to have some good lines, but she is very much a participant in his speech. And that sequence I did not particularly enjoy.

[Joanna Robinson]

I also just, like, hated her character in that scene. I was, you know, she was, like, trying to be so quippy, cool in a way that I like. So cool girl in a way. And then what rolls out after that? And again, this is where I should have learned my lesson from. Fleischman is in Trouble, the FX show that came out last year, which does a really good job, really, really good job of trying to, like, present a story that's poor, poor, pitiful Jesse Eisenberg. Until later. It shows you all the shit that Jesse Eisenberg did to get himself into the situation. And this show is alluding to that, with various characters being like, coop, don't you think you had a role to play in, like, your wife's infidelity and this, that and the other thing? So Like, I am trying to keep my powder dry on that, but in that first quarter of that episode when he gets fired by Corbin Benson and like all this other stuff like that, the implication is it's like a false MeToo moment, which just really bothered me a lot. And even though they're, you know, spinning the top on that one around, I was just sort of like, in this economy we're doing like a false me too narrative, my hackles were definitely up on that.

[Rob Mahoney]

So it's quite a delicate, like, subject matter to wade into for a show that I would say is not quite delicate overall. Like, I enjoy some of the characterizations, I enjoy some of the dynamics on the show. As you're saying. Overall, this idea of an ultra wealthy person who loses their job and turns to petty theft is appealing. And you get to see him in the way that you see in shows like Breaking Bad or in shows like Weeds, this like a person who doesn't know how to be a criminal, getting slightly and incrementally better at being a criminal. And in Coop's case, I think in a really self destructive way, right. This is not a clean job. This is him but like breaking into a friend's house, smoking weed, sitting in their theater room, enjoying some of their delights because he knows they're going to be out of the house. But it's, it's that surgical what he's doing. And so the blundering thief part of the story, I'm really enjoying. The me too elements are not great and I'm, I'm, I don't know how to read or how to feel about the fact that that character Liv is still in the show and she's being kind of strung along as she might be kind of part and parcel of this litigation that he's pursuing to try to get his job back or get some money, I guess mostly to get money. On the one hand, it's good that they're not just like disposing of her or they didn't, they didn't turn her into a careerist like, oh, I'm going to leverage this sexual encounter with Coop to try to get this job. Like she really didn't want any part of it. And if anything, I think the one area on this in which I will give the show credit is it seems pretty aware of the fact that Coop does not seem to care that much about this woman. He is so self absorbed with his own life and how he gets his piece of the pie that when she brings up the case of if you have this lawsuit. I'm gonna get dragged into it. My career is gonna be thrown, like, for an incredible loop. I'm gonna be painted as the bad guy here. Really fundamentally, he doesn't seem terribly bothered by that. And so, yeah, it's getting into tricky territory. But he seems like somebody who the show is aware is not suited for that tricky territory, at least.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay, yeah, yeah, I really wanna. Okay, that's such a good point. I wanna come back to sort of the likability of Coop, which I don't need a character to be likable. But I like that you brought up because I definitely, several times wrote down sort of like golden age of television antihero narrative in a way. You know, this is of the Weeds, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, you know, era of television. This feels like something that would have been on fx. Like, I just like. Or Showtime is a good call. Like, I really feel like I recognize this story. And it's not a story it's slightly out of. And that doesn't mean it's not something I want to watch, but it is maybe something that I feel like I've seen what it has to say. And that is sort of where I am with that. I want to go back to Jonathan Tropper. So Tropper, who is the creator of the show, was a novelist and then became a TV showrunner. He wrote this Is Where I Leave youe which was turned into a film. This Is Where I Leave youe by Jonathan Tropper, is a book I always confuse with. Then We Came to the End by Joshua Ferris. They're two different books. A novelist and then he. He co created, or he created Banshee, a show I actually really liked, and Warrior, a show I really liked. And those are two sort of like, his books are very. This very sort of like upper middle class, family problems, infidelities, talkie sort of stuff. And then Warrior and Banshee, which were much more sort of like genre swings. Outside of that concern, this is a return to sort of his novelistic form. And what he said in a panel that made so much sense to me is that this was some. An idea. He had a really long time and he had written the first hundred pages of this book and then decided to make it a show. And I was like, okay, we're hit with monologue, monologue, monologue, monologue. At the beginning, I'm like, this is the first hundred pages of the book that he had written. And now. And then as it goes on, it's being transformed more and more. Into, like, actual TV storytelling. But on the, like, talkie front, both Amanda P. And Olivia Munn, in interviews have compared Trapper's writing style, Aaron Sorkin, someone that they have both worked with. And I'm curious, as a Sorkin head yourself, like, do you agree or what do you think they have worked with?

[Rob Mahoney]

With all due respect to both of them, who I like quite a bit versions of Aaron Sorkin, who I would not say is Prime. Aaron Sorkin, if we're being respectful about those properties. Like Studio 60 is not is not it and the Newsroom. Although I think Olivia Munn's character on that show evolves over time and she kind of finds her place in it. And I definitely appreciate that arc. Also not necessarily the most resonant stuff. And at its worst, I think your Friends and Neighbors has some of that. But actually, I think the bantering style does mostly fit, and it works better in some contexts than others. And I think once we get out of some of those initial scenes, it sort of finds its footing.

[Joanna Robinson]

I agree.

[Rob Mahoney]

And so it's hard to tell how much of that is, am I bumping on dialogue or am I bumping on narration, or am I bumping on overall framing? Like the show is trying to do out of the gate with the narration, which is Jon Hamm narration, something we know he can do, he has done successfully on other shows. I would say some of this narration is played at 1.25 times speed for some reason in a way that I don't understand. And it's going for a sort of like, big, short Wolf of Wall Street Fight Club. I am the smart, smarmy guy talking over this, telling you how the world is. And even some of the visual cues are very Fight Club, right? It's like the straight out of the IKEA catalog parallel of let me show you all these luxury goods. I don't know how to feel about that stuff. Sometimes it really works for me. Sometimes it feels like a lot. And this is a show that I think that's where I am. Overall, we are three episodes in. We have, I would say, five or six different jokes about objects in the show being a metaphor. I can be a sucker for that, but it's also a lot at this stage.

[Joanna Robinson]

Was the toilet like, where you're like, this is where I leave you. Like, this is the bottom. Marie, the voiceover is so interesting to me because I also wrote. I wrote fight club down 100%. I wrote American Beauty down. There's a lot of American Beauty in here and Sunset Boulevard and so Sunset Boulevard, because A, Coop is a character who loves to watch classic cinema. B, we start with him in a pool and he's like, yep, that's me. And the only thing that's ever done that perfectly well. Record scratch, yep, that's me. Is Sunset Boulevard. But like, well, so for the record, is this.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is this you saying that Bloodsport is classic cinema?

[Joanna Robinson]

Obviously. Clearly.

[Rob Mahoney]

I just wanted to get you on the record about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thank you. Thank you. I've long wanted to get my Bloodsport takes off, but I think that. I think the voiceover is so interesting because they were talking about sort of reinventing the voiceover and I'm like, I don't think you have. But what it offers, I guess, is the idea is that Jon Hamm's the voiceover narration, the, Yep, that's me. Bet you wonder how I got here. Is an omniscient. All seeing already knows how this all played out. So we're hearing his sort of wry delivery on top of Coop's sometimes frantically fumbling actions. And I'm not opposed to it. I just don't think it's necessarily like the freshest thing I've ever seen.

[Rob Mahoney]

And it can be too clever by half sometimes. I think where I am finding more comfort in the show and the momentum in the show is as you described, the more conventional TV storytelling of it. When we get into the rhythms of the crime and even the rhythms of the domestic dramas. I love that this is a show about adults making adult mistakes. And fundamentally that's a great place to ground this, even in something as kind of exotic as this ultra wealthy neighborhood in which everyone is understandably obsessed with brands in a way that feels very true to life and feels very. It's channeling into the consumerism that the show is commenting on and ultimately that Jon Hamm's character is literally stealing from these people. And so there's a lot to mine there. But, like, that's the part of the show that I'm enjoying more than anything is just the actual, like, let's tell the story about the guy stealing the things and not let's do the narration from the guy about stealing the things with the added context of whatever perspective he thinks he's providing.

[Joanna Robinson]

So there's a couple elements as he gets deeper and deeper into the trouble that he is creating for himself. We've met the character of Lou, played by Randy Danson, who has not only encountered Coop at her place of business, but has now infiltrated his home and knows where he lives and met his Sister who we'll come back to, etc. I like her a lot and there is an implication I don't. I have not watched beyond episode three, but I was curious why Amy Carrero, who plays Elena, Nick's like, housekeeper, I suppose, domestic worker, is in the main cast and we only really kind of meet her in episode three. And I was curious about that. And then we get the end of episode three and you get the gun click, you know, the gun sound on him.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I'm like, it's gotta be her, right?

[Joanna Robinson]

It's definitely her.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I'm definitely curious how she is going to like, hopefully get involved as like an accomplice. Like that sounds fun to me. Like this idea that she might be an accomplice to him. Amy has talked in interviews about how she was like reluctant to take like she had made it a, like an idea in her career that she did not want to play like, you know, a housekeeper at some point in her career as a Latin actress. She's like, this role is really fun and juicy, you know, so they're all like kind of teasing, like something really fun and juicy is coming for her. So I'm excited to see how she works in. And Olivia Munn's character as someone who started as a waitress and has been sort of married up into this world versus everyone else who comes like via the Ivy League into this world. Those, those little like tiny class tensions or encounters are more interesting to me than the privileged class enjoying their privileges or rich people behaving badly or poor. Poor, pitiful me. I, my daughter can't afford this like thousand, like dollar, like dermatological thing that she doesn't need like that. As the show gets closer and moves into that world, I think I will like it even more if that makes sense.

[Rob Mahoney]

I really enjoy Olivia Munn's character overall, I think is a great breath of fresh air into this show and especially now that we're seeing her and Amanda Peete's character, Mel, interacting more directly. Right. Like they are part of this big group of ladies who has the self defense class that is by the way, Chekov's self defense class. Somebody will be using a grapple on Coop at some point in this season. I feel like it's inevitable. But I really like their dynamic together. I really like seeing those characters bounce off each other and I like seeing overall Sam, who again is Olivia Munn's character, like trying to grapple with how to express that kind of wealth, how like there's something so perfect about her Showing up to that self defense class in the, like, Loewe sweatshirt that is like perfectly relaxed fit, but also probably costs like $3,000. These people know how to flex their wealth in exactly the right way. And I think she, although she has a different background, is showing that she knows how to get around the country club lifestyle as well.

[Joanna Robinson]

But what I love is, isn't Amanda P's character Mel wearing her Princeton sweatshirt. Like, of course that's. That's, you know, something you can't buy. You had to have been there, you know, I think it's a great point. Yeah. I think that Olivia Mund is so interesting because this is an actress that I have. She's a celebrity that I have had real ups and downs with in. In my time as a pop culture person. And I loved her in the Newsroom. The Newsroom was like this, like, real revelation for me where I was like, Olivia Munn, not really a huge fan. And then I just thought her character Sloane in the Newsroom was like the best part of the newsroom. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

What are the Newsroom power rankings in retrospect? I mean, number one is obviously the single moment in which they informed the pilot of the plane about Osama bin Laden.

[Joanna Robinson]

Correct.

[Rob Mahoney]

Number two is Olivia Munn. Probably. Number three, Alison Pill. I want to say.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I'm trying. Thomas Sadowski is. Thomas Sadowski's up there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

A real mixed bag, the Newsroom. But as you're alluding to, Olivia Munn is great in it and, like, one of the genuine, like, bright spots in that show.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I think she's great in this. I think she's wonderful in this. Again, for all my mixed feelings, I think she's really talented at exactly this level of, like, subtle comedy. I have a lot of empathy for her character and her, like, you know, you mentioned earlier. And I do want to circle back to Coop, obviously, but, like, her. Her vulnerability around him, like, you know, her. Her ins. Her, like, being so ready to be like, oh, you want me to leave or you want to leave? This can be over. What is this even? Also, the way their sex scenes are filmed is, like, very interesting to me because there's this, like, awkwardness to it, which is not what you would expect from, like, Olivia munn. Like, absolute 10 out of 10, stone cold stunner. So it's really funny. Let's talk about Coop. So I was watching an interview where the interviewer said, the thing that I love about your character, Coop, is that no matter what he does, we like him. And I was like, ooh, that's not my experience with.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah, what show is that from?

[Joanna Robinson]

So I'm wondering how you feel about Coop. Where are you with Coop?

[Rob Mahoney]

I find him pretty deeply unlikable in a way that, as a TV character, I appreciate. I almost would. I would welcome them trying to make him less likable. Or in particular, I think what I'm chafing against is, you know, we talked about Olivia Munn coming into the show and the energy that she provides it. You know, the energy that Amanda Pete brings to the show, the energy that Barney, who's Coop's, like, best friend and business manager, which I think it says something about somebody when their best friend is their business manager. And I'm not sure what the order of operations there was, but you can suspect. Really funny. Really, really welcome presence.

[Joanna Robinson]

Only like, the funniest part of the whole show. Like, really, really good stuff.

[Rob Mahoney]

Really, really terrific. I love Lena hall on this show who plays Coop's sister, Ally. I don't know what show she is in because all of her scenes seem so disconnected from everything else that's happening. And Coop's relationship with her seems so disconnected from who he is with everybody else. And so, like, is that the sort of, like, equalizing olive branch where they're trying to get us to like this character more? I don't really understand the role that it's playing in the show as of yet. I'm glad every time she's on screen. I just don't know who that Coop is because the guy we're spending time with for the rest of the show is not likable, really, at all.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love her. I love her especially, like, in her aunt role in episode three. She's helping her nephew through his drug trip and stuff like that. I thought all that stuff was good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Very relatable. Needing help out of a bathtub squat, you know, like, it's tough scenes for all of us.

[Joanna Robinson]

A real 30s moment for her. But, like, I did write down Saving the Cat. Like, this is the moment when, like, Coop shows up to, like, help her out and is kind to her. I'm like, yeah, this is like a. And it was funny. I was talking to Andy and Chris a little bit about, like, their feelings on the show, and Andy was like, the sister piece. And I was like, well, I like the sister piece a bit better than Andy does.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

But, like, it's. It is. It's straight out of an FX show that I love that was canceled soon. Terriers. Like, it's a. It's a Terriers plotline of like, the sister who needs this added care and what she does for this character who is doing questionable things and also divorced from the woman that he loves and kind of wants to get her back. It's a. There's a lot of Terriers in the dough here. But I like her. I like all of her scenes. So, like, I don't like that. I feel like I'm being slightly emotionally manipulated, but I'm enjoying it as it's happening, if that makes sense.

[Rob Mahoney]

That character is just so effortlessly likable.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I get why you want that for balance. I just want to see kind of how they tie all these threads together where all these things come into play. And her getting to interact with Coop's son Hunter, I think is starting to tie these stories together a little bit more closely. Will they pay off? I don't know. Overall, I think the kids are like, those are very recognizable child figures to me. This very pampered, tennis playing princess daughter who I think also has some great moments and great lines and headphones kid is such a real phenomenon that I appreciate the show wrestling with in that way. But I don't know what to make of that family dynamic of the overall wrestling between Coop and Mel about their kids and kind of who gets to do what. And of course, we gotta talk about Nick's place in this. Just one of the most nominative, determinative performances of all time from Mark Tallman playing a former NBA player.

[Joanna Robinson]

I am so excited to talk to you about Mark Tallman. This was marked in my notes as like, can't wait to hear Rob's take on this. So Mark Tallman, Tall Man Tallman is his name, literally. Tallman is a former athlete himself playing an NBA, an NBA player. And Jim franchise owner Nick Brandis, as someone fluent in the world of the NBA, is this a recognizable person to you?

[Rob Mahoney]

Are you ready for my Jon Hamm opening monologue at you?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

And I encourage you to introduce your own witty banter. Yeah, anytime you like, Joe.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

This was a whole journey for me. Here's what we know about Nick. He played Critically for Team USA in the 2004 Olympics. Joe, how familiar are you with the 2004 Olympic Men's Basketball team?

[Joanna Robinson]

What do you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know. Maybe you're a secret Olympics head and I don't know about it.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's a strong zero percent there for me.

[Rob Mahoney]

But you do lock into an Olympic storyline once in a while. And if Nothing else, the 2004 Team USA basketball group is one of the great disappointments in American basketball history. A classic like did not send the players they should have sent. Got undermined and upset by ultimately superior team playing, but maybe inferior talent. And so him displaying his bronze medal, which is what the USA won in Athens in his trophy case, very good. Also gives us a critical clue as to who might be on this team. Very limited pool to now draw from. He's wearing number 15 on Team USA, which is Richard Jefferson's number. Now we're starting to get somewhere. There's like a certain physical like similarity between Nick and Richard Jefferson. He has a championship ring, which Richard Jefferson also has. But he played for the Knicks, which Richard Jefferson never did. Played for the sort of crosstown, but really cross state, then New Jersey Nets. He's also a three time all Star, which Richard Jefferson never made the all star team. And so Knicks plus multiple all star births. Now I'm thinking plus 2004 Olympics is the Stephon Marbury kind of Knicks complicated legend who then went on to a very successful career overseas, particularly in China. Then we see Nick dunk in this episode with an ease that I would say is Richard Jeffersonian and not what a six two Stephon Marbury would be doing post playing career. Just doesn't really add up. That man is not 6'two and so then I'm looking at Amanda Peet, who is by my detective work, 5'sEven is the most accurate read on her height that I can find online. I would describe their side to side comps as he is 1.2 times Amanda Peete's height, which would put him in the six'seven six'eight range, which is well in Richard Jefferson territory. All of which is to say I think we're really getting at a Richard Jefferson comp here with a couple of Stephon Marbury like, you know, some breadcrumbs to throw us off the trail. But ultimately Richard Jefferson is the answer.

[Joanna Robinson]

I mean, round of fucking applause for, for NBA scholar Rob Mahoney. So a couple of things I learned for that. Number one, he is indeed a tall man. Like tall man. Yes, quite correct. Number two, I guess. Well, this is a question if he is a Richard Jeffersonian sort of character. Yes. What should that tell me? How does that inform how I'm thinking about this character?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's tough because I think what it tells you is one quite successful, but not mega, indisputably famous and successful. One of the details I bumped on is you see in his trophy case like a GQ cover and someone who is a Richard Jefferson level NBA celebrity probably isn't GQ cover famous necessarily. Maybe there's something about him that sort of transcends that. Maybe there is a public life that's a little larger than the game.

[Joanna Robinson]

Was there anyone on the 2004 team that you could see on the COVID of GQ?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, absolutely. Like this was famously like LeBron James Team USA debut. So it had like some huge NBA stars on that team in their right but who were a little bit miscast or kind of too earlier in their careers to be those figures. And ultimately the fact that he is a mere three time all star and not like a ten time all star puts him in a different category. I'll also say temperamentally Richard Jefferson is a little more cutting than I think our guy Nick seems affable, quite pleasant, quite affable. Is really making an effort to at least mend some kind of fence with Coop. Whether that can be done or not. I think Richard Jefferson is a little more biting than that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Here's what I loved about how. Thank you for that. Absolute masterclass, Rob. I appreciate it. It's incredible stuff from you. Here's what I love about the way that the Nick character is sort of rolled out. He is this like sort of Cooper placement, you know what I mean? The kids don't love him, but he is. This Cooper placement in many ways is affable. I did think he was living there until it's revealed that he's not. And then I did think that Mel was much more into him until it was revealed that maybe she kind of isn't. And I think that's all really interesting because Nick's great and it's quite, it's stacked status for Mel. Like you know, what a, what a thing to move on from your husband too. And all this other stuff like that.

[Rob Mahoney]

All the ladies at the country club are sort of like ogling him as he swims across the world, quite excited.

[Joanna Robinson]

But like that Mel has him is what Mel needs in this moment to feel like she has attention. But not seemingly what Mel probably wants to keep in the long run, given especially this burgeoning. Mel deeply identifies with her troubled teenage patient. So she keys Carr's sort of darkness to her that seems like it perhaps matches the darkness inside of Coop. And so there is this idea that like, I mean I think their scenes together are incredibly good. Amanda, Pete and Jon Hamm and her sort of. It's tough cause I really like Mel until she's cast in the role of like slightly nagging Wife coming to you for more money sort of thing, which doesn't seem like it matches other parts of her, you know, like, it's very confusing to me. But when they are together and she's talking to him in a way where she's like, I know you. I see you. We know each other sort of thing. That and her talking about to Olivia Munn's character about, like, not feeling seen by him and not getting attention from him. And this is something that she did just to feel seen and feel like she had attention. Like, all of that. That rollout, I think, is really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is really good. I would also watch a whole show that is just her in therapy, taking the destructive ideas of her patients and trying them to see if they help her personally. I think that's a great premise for a show, to be honest with you.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's another Showtime show entirely. Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

I really like Amanda Pete a lot. I'm tempted to say welcome back, but she's been kind of fun fluttering in and out of various things for a bit. Like, she hasn't completely disappeared. I think the last thing I saw her in was something that has a similar shape to this in a lot of ways, which is Brockmire. Did you watch that show Brockmire?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, I love Brockmire.

[Rob Mahoney]

Really enjoyable show in which she's also cast opposite, sort of like a broken, although slightly more comedically pitched man in a lot of ways. Unfortunately, it seems to be Amanda Peet's zone. She is asked to fix these people or at least to coexist with them. The nag part, I hope, gets toned down over time. I hope there were just a little fewer, like, fewer scenes that pitch to that effect. The problem is, I think the reason that those scenes are there is they're trying to ratchet up the sort of, like, pressure for Coop to steal more stuff. Right. Like, he needs to feel the financial stress from somewhere. And he's feeling it from Barney, certainly, who is reminding him at every instance, you only have, like, a couple of months worth of money to actually live the way you want to live.

[Joanna Robinson]

And you have me. You haven't paid me.

[Rob Mahoney]

You got to pay me. At some point, you have to pay your best friend to be your best friend. And Mel is there to say, yeah, your son, who you don't pay attention to, needs a drum kit. Hey, your daughter, who actually wants to play tennis for Princeton, she needs some tennis lessons from a pro. That said, Jon Ham's forehand looks pretty fierce. I think our guy can play.

[Joanna Robinson]

He can. Jon Hamm can play tennis and golf. This is, like, the best Jon Hamm moment I saw on the various, like, panels and interviews that I watched around. This is. They were talking about, like, we need to find something that John couldn't do, but we have. Like, he can golf, he can play tennis, like, he can drumstick. He can do all this stuff. And John was like, oh, I'm just incredibly white. Like, that's. That's it. That's all. Which is really funny. But, yeah, all of that, I think it was. Honestly, it was the dermatology moment that I was just sort of, like, really? Like the tennis pro thing. I'm kind of like, okay, we're trying to get into Princeton. The pressure's on. I understand that pressure cooker. Like, I grew up in Marin County, California. Like, I understand, like, all of that, how that can just sort of cook your brain of. This is the only thing. This is the only thing that equates to winning. We have to get into Princeton or else, you know, we're worthless. But, yeah, it was the dermatology thing that I was just sort of like, I don't know. And almost like, I would almost rather hear that from the kids. Like, if his daughter was like, I need this procedure. And he was like, I don't know how to say no to my daughter, who I love and have brought up in this pampered world where if she asks for a thing, I give it to her. So that request coming from her would just sit a lot easier for me than coming from Amanda. Pete's character, who seems quite sensible in so many other ways. You know, she does.

[Rob Mahoney]

And if it's coming from the daughter, too, then you get the different character motivation of he's trying to connect with his daughter, who he gets to spend less and less time with. And, you know, in the way that sometimes divorce or divorcing parents do, you know, you're trying to shower them with the things that they want so that you can maintain the bond that you have, but that dynamic isn't there. It is literally just Mel asking for money a lot.

[Joanna Robinson]

This. This latest episode for Hunter, this, like, party storyline for him really helped crystallize that character for me. He was just sort of, like, vaguely there, vaguely wants a drum kid or whatever. But, like, his. His relationship with his aunt, him seeing his aunt, him seeing his grandparents in a certain way was, like, all really good stuff, I thought. And then, yeah, him going to this party, having this horrible drug trip, feeling mortified and embarrassed, and having his aunt, like, come help him all of that stuff really, really worked for me. I did write down, though, early on. And again, this is tv and. And we should be patient and watch things roll out. But I remember in this earlier era, this golden era of television, of the antihero television, there were all these, like, trend pieces about the shitty teen characters on, like, Homeland or the Good Wife or like, whatever it is. And I was just like, are we gonna avoid that trap or are we gonna fall right into it? Like, where are we with this? So I think we're moving in the right direction. But what do you think?

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, within the context of the show, this is where it helps to have Coop himself be as unlikable as he is. Is that the teen characters, by association and by comparison, they seem like relatively good hangs. Like, yes. Hunter is quite shy and quite quiet and he is just starting to understand the power of being in a band and what it can do for your social life. Very critical. Don't take the mushrooms. I gotta say, for us, to the foresight. For us, Joe, on our the Last of Us pod to create an email address that was this is your brainonshroomsmail.com and then immediately walk into this show and see Hunter's brain on shrooms, unable to drum. Not great for your sense of rhythm, it turns out.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I was like, this would go two ways as the guy who pushed it on and like, either you transcend into another. I was like, how's this gonna go for Hunter? Is he gonna have this transcendent musical moment? And then, oh, it's like just shroom trim o'clock all the time. Or is it going to go very badly for him just realizing in this moment because Coop Cooper is his. Is Andrew Cooper's last name, that this kid's name is Hunter Cooper is like, that's.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's not it. You can't do that to your son. Tori Cooper. Okay, that's it.

[Joanna Robinson]

That is Victoria Cooper. Fine. Hunter Cooper. That's really. That's tough.

[Selectquote Ad]

This episode is brought to you by Selectquote. Life insurance can have a huge impact on our family's future with Selectquote getting covered with the right policy for you is simple and affordable. Selectquote's licensed insurance agents will tailor your experience to find a life insurance policy for your needs in as little as 15 minutes. And selectquote partners with carriers that provide policies for many conditions. Select quote they should shop, you save. Go to selectquote.com Spotify pod today to get started.

[William Goudge]

I'm William Goudge, a viewer collaborator and professional ultra runner from the uk. I love to tackle endurance runs around the world, including a 55 day 3064 mile run across the US. So I know a thing or two about performance wear. When it comes to relaxing, I look for something ultra versatile and comfy. The Ponto Performance Jogger from Vuri is perfect for all of those things. It's the comfiest jogger I've ever worn and the Dream Knit fabric is why I'll always reach for them over other joggers. Check them out in the Dream Knit collection by going to Vuori.com William that's V-U-O-R-I.com William where new customers can receive 20% off their first order, plus enjoy free shipping in the US on orders over $75 and free returns. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

[KFC Ad]

The new KFC Dunk It Bucket with Juicy original recipe tenders, new mashed potato poppers, crispy fries plus three sauces that fit right on top of the lid so you can dunk anywhere. You can dunk at the game. Dunk while security points to the no outside food sign and dunk as 20,000 people watch you and your Dunk it bucket get removed from the stadium. Dunk almost anywhere with the new $7 KFC Dunkin Bucket or get the double Dunkin Bucket for 25. Prices and participation vary while supplies last. Taxes, tips and fees extra.

[Joanna Robinson]

So let's, let's get back to the sort of like question of class and the time we find ourselves in now.

[Rob Mahoney]

Jon Hamm has been what time is that, Joe?

[Joanna Robinson]

I can't afford eggs o'clock. Oh, okay, Katy Perry's going to space. Jon Hamm has been exquisitely media trained. Talk about this show as if it is like a cutting commentary on like the Elon Musk's and Donald Trump's of the world. That it is here for the people who are out here struggling and losing their jobs and all this sort of stuff like that. And I'm just sort of like, I'm not sure I see the vision, the way that Jon Hamm is presenting the vision here. For me, it feels like he's like, this is the right time for this show. The way that Obama versus McCain was the right time for Mad Men. Like this is, this is the right era for this show. I'm like, this feels a few years too late for me. It might be Katy Perry going to space and we're murdering, you know, execs in the street. And like all this stuff is Going on with the billionaire class that, like, I don't know, like, it's again, like, this is. I was. I am born and raised in Marin County, California. Like, I have come from this world and I just am like, this. Is this the temperature of the country right now? Is there a possibility for this show to be that for people? And like, I don't know if it's hypocritical for me to bump on it for this show and not for something like White Lotus when both are trying to convey a sense of, you know, you're miserable. Like, these things will not solve the misery inside of you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, you haven't bought enough of them yet. You know, one more watch I think might do it.

[Joanna Robinson]

Might do it, might just do it. I don't know. Like, what do you think about.

[Rob Mahoney]

Think for one, this is a much more pleasantly watchable show than White Lotus is. Right. Like, White Lotus, I think, wants to make you uncomfortable, not just with its commentary, but even just how the characters act and behave. There's some of that here. And I will say Coop is much more confrontational in some of these settings. Like, much more directly will call out whatever he sees as being bullshit, whether you agree with it or not. But overall, I think the temperament of the show where it is most comfortable, the Zone is trying to exist in. It's just like a comfortable watchability as we're easing through this story. And yeah, there's this cultural commentary on the side that I don't think is quite biting as we alluded to Up Top and is quite sugar co at times. I don't mind it, but I don't see it as us. Like, we're not going to come out 10 years from now unless this season does a dramatic change of pace and change of tone and say, like, oh, this was one of the really resonant pieces of our time. This really tapped into that thing in the Zeitgeist. Like it's. It's talking around and about things that we talk around and about, but it's doing it in a way that I don't think is exactly where any of us might want.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I almost feel like the Mushroom Zombie show is doing a better job of like reflecting how we're feeling or severance. You know what I mean? There are shows that I think are doing it and I'm not sure that this is. And it doesn't matter. This can be a sort of Desperate Housewives esque piece of candy. If you want it to be, that's fine. I just think it's interesting that they're out there saying, this is really holding up a mirror to something. And I'm like, I haven't seen it yet.

[Rob Mahoney]

They gotta sell a show they're doing. Coppola was out here saying that about Megalopolis. You know, like, we all have something to do here. We all have a part to play. And for us, I think it is saying, like, yeah, like, I think the line that they're trying to walk makes the show very watchable, but I don't know that it makes it super resonant. Like, I enjoy the show. I'm gonna be keeping up with it and seeing what goes on, particularly with some of these criminal element storylines. As we weigh deeper into Terrier's Tory, as you cited it, like, that's kind of where I'm excited for the show to go. Y the other parts, we'll kind of wait and see and see kind of how our opinions of them change over time.

[Joanna Robinson]

I wanted to ask you on the sort of visual front. So Craig Gillespie of Lars the Real Girl I, Tonya Fame, directed the first two episode. Greg Yitanis, who we interviewed for Presumed Innocent on this feed, directed the third episode. How are you feeling about the way in which the show looks or uses framing to tell its story?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm enjoying it. I think it's a very well shot show. And I think what I'm trying to figure out is how am I supposed to feel about the way that in particular the incredible consumerism of the show is displayed? Cause it is clearly in the target, in the crosshairs of what this show is trying to hit and talk about. But it also wants to show you, in loving commercial fashion, every element of this Rolls Royce, right? Like, it is loving of these objects in a way that these people are loving of these objects. And so, like, capturing that in the filmmaking is a really delicate balance. And I think there's some scenes, again, where it really hits for me, and the commercialism and the dissection of why wine snobs are obsessed with this particular bottle or why you can't pour a glass of bourbon in this neighborhood without getting a TED Talk, all of that stuff, I think really, really hits. But then you get into an extended car commercial. I'm like, are we gonna do this every episode? Like, is this such a critical part of the visual language of the show? Where we're gonna stop segment, go into catalog mode, go into infographic mode. I think it's still trying to modulate. It feels like your friends and neighbors is how much to do those things.

[Joanna Robinson]

I think it's. Have we exceeded one per episode? I feel like it's one per episode.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's about one per episode so far. I imagine, like every time he stops in to shop around one of his friends closets or wine cellars, we're probably gonna get something like that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. It's two watches and a bottle of wine, I think is what we've seen so far. I will say.

[Rob Mahoney]

And this little wad of cash don't look cash money in these times. It's not nothing. The dollar is not feeling great, but.

[Joanna Robinson]

It'S something I think that in terms of like, this is delicious candy to be consumed or a delectable pot brownie to be consumed. The shot of Jon Hamm in the wine cellar watching his neighbor fuck her sister. Her daughter's boyfriend. Yeah. And then later hearing from her husband, like, how good their marriage is at Nick's party. But his face, like comedy Hamm is delightful. And so, like, comedy Hamm in that moment is just like top tier great stuff.

[Rob Mahoney]

We've been waiting for Complicated frontman Jon Hamm to return to television, but in the meantime, I would say he's played primarily two parts. One, great comedy appearances in all sorts of doses. And also various, like law enforcement officers. That's basically what he's been doing.

[Joanna Robinson]

Well, it's interesting in this last year, our producer Kai pointed out that we could just recycle the Jon hammsnipple ringsmail.com email address that we had for Fargo for this show if we wanted to. He shows up in Fargo, he shows up in Morning show and he showed up in Landman.

[Rob Mahoney]

He literally called into Landman. We're being honest about it. That is what his role is.

[Joanna Robinson]

He called in more frequently than Demi Moore did. That's true. But he's playing the heavy. You know what I mean? He's playing the villain in the Morning show and in Fargo. And Landman, slightly less so, but still a villain because he's an oil tycoon. I need to parse this with you. Jon Hamm is not someone I have ever found likable like any of his characters. I enjoy his characters. I find them compelling. Don Draper is endlessly compelling to me, honestly, like, I never liked him. And I. And so when John. I thought what John did in Fargo was phenomenal. Like this, like him leaning into. Oh yeah, this thing. So, like, as a person, I don't know him. He might be like apple pie and sunshine. This is nothing. This is not. Not on John Ham as a person. But, like, likable is a root for a bull is never really what I'm going for. And I'm curious, like, maybe we can play a little Bill Simmons, like, casting what ifs. The story is that Jonathan Tropper wrote first hundred pages of his novel and then decided to shop it around as a TV show, took a meeting with Jon Hamm, and then went home and wrote the pilot script and wrote it with Jon Hamm in mind. Right. So this is tailored for Jon Hamm, but is there another actor that could be in this role where maybe I. Joanna Robinson. So I'm not as, like, immediately out on Cooper the way that perhaps the show doesn't want me to be out.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that's the question is how much does the show want that? Right. Because I agree with you that Jon Hamm plays a lot of very deeply unlikable people. But part of what makes Don Draper work is there's a pure competence at his job that I think is very charismatic for a lot of people.

[Joanna Robinson]

And you see him.

[Rob Mahoney]

You see him in a pitch meeting, and you're like, I would follow this guy anyway. And then you see him go home, and you're like, this is the most contemptible man who's ever lived. And that contrast him in a suit presenting in a certain way is part of what makes that character so effective. And I think there's a part of that here where just by putting Jon Hamm in front of us, someone who looks and acts and behaves like Jon Hamm, even when he's acting in something, is going to make him a borderline kind of likable in the way that, like, famous, attractive people are likable in a lot of cases. And then you see what you can get away with. Like, how far can you pull that character down to make us bend the line of what we're willing to go along with? Cause we've seen he's going to end up in a pile of blood. I'm guessing he didn't kill that guy.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, yeah. Feels like we fell down the stairs accidentally or something.

[Rob Mahoney]

And clearly he's stumbling into a bunch of stuff that he didn't intend to. Right. There's the SAT guide or sat. The answer key, I should say, in the drawer. Clearly walked in on this affair with his neighbor and her gentle boy caller. And then whatever it is that's going to happen with the dead body, dental.

[Joanna Robinson]

Boy caller is an extremely cursed phrase. Thank you so much for introducing the.

[Rob Mahoney]

Show, how the show did it. I'm just calling it How I see.

[Joanna Robinson]

It, they have cast James Marsden for season two of this show.

[Rob Mahoney]

Ooh.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I'm like, Marsden actually, like, closer to. Because I agree. I mean, like, Don Draper is an old timer character. And I like. I love watching Don Draper. And to your point, I love getting transported by Don Draper inside of a. An ad pitch and stuff like that. Anyway, last thing I'll say on the Don Draper to Andrew Cooper trajectory, and this is something that Jon Hamm said in an interview that I did really, really love, is that he was saying Don Draper was responsible for selling the American dream. Andrew Cooper bought the American dream, and it didn't pan out for him. And I'm like, this is how you.

[Rob Mahoney]

Sell a fucking show.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was like, that is good shit. Jon Hamm. Great stuff.

[Rob Mahoney]

Give this man a slide remote. Like, he knows how to cook up there.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, he gets it. All right. Anything else you want to about this show before we head out?

[Rob Mahoney]

The one thing we didn't really talk about, Joe, is sort of the corporate undermining angle of this. Like, we talked about the lawsuit, but it seems like the subplot between Coop and his former boss, who sort of played him and sort of set up this situation is like being positioned as a pretty important plot line for this season.

[Joanna Robinson]

You don't cast Corbin Burns into doing nothing, you know, not to just sit.

[Rob Mahoney]

In a room and make a couple calls and occasionally pour himself a glass. There's gotta be more to it than that.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's some real Jon Hamm inland man energy from Corbin Burnson. I guess in this. In this. Yeah. I'll be interested to see that, how that pans out. I have actually one last really important question for you, please. Would you rather go to drunken weed brownie self defense?

[Rob Mahoney]

This is tough.

[Joanna Robinson]

Or we're playing basketball one on one so hard that someone snaps their legs. I rewound that several times to understand the angle of how that happened. But anyway, are you at. Are you going to Nick's house or are you partying with the. With the ladies?

[Rob Mahoney]

Nick's house feels a little cursed, and I think that was true before the compound fracture, but even after it. And look, that stuff does happen, like, to basketball players sometimes. It's. It's very traumatic to a degree that I don't think the people in that room were adequately expressing. Very, very striking to see someone's bone poking through their leg like that. But let's take that part out of it before that starts. A lot of rage happening. A lot of just, like, weird conversations that I don't know that I necessarily want to be a part of a lot of selling and hawking $30,000 luxury toilets.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not my vibe.

[Joanna Robinson]

No to the toilet party. Are you hanging out with the ladies or are you just going to stay home? I think I'm staying home and watching Gentle boy caller.

[Rob Mahoney]

No, no, I am not the gentle boy caller in this case, but, you know, I don't think I'm welcome in that space. You know, like, they're doing their thing. They're there for, you know, a glass of white wine, a pot brownie or two, some canapes, and some light to medium rough housing. And I'm not going to stand in the way of that. I don't want to intrude. So I'm going to stay home. Me and Jean Claude Van Damme are going to have a great time. My bowl of pasta, I don't even know what kind of sauce he put on that. It doesn't look like Coop can cook very much, but, you know, desperate times, sometimes you just gotta rough it a little. Buttered noodle.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. Butter noodle and some blood sport. Sounds good. Genuinely, all of their parties seem slightly cursed to me. Like, I don't really want to go to any of those backyard barbecues, nor do I want to go to the.

[Rob Mahoney]

Club, but, like, let's rewind it. The initial barbecue where we're putting crab legs on the grill. Now we're talking like, Nick. Nick knows how to throw a party, and some of these other people know how to throw a party. I just think that particular night, everything was going off the rails. Toilet night. Cursed. Being locked into a wine cellar, watching again, gentle boy collar and this woman, you know, go at it like it was just one thing after another. I don't think. I don't think anything that night was gonna go well once Coop left the house.

[Joanna Robinson]

All right, so stay home with your butter noodles and your. And your Jean Claude Van Damme. Thank you to Ramahony. Thank you to Kai Kuri. Thank you, Joe. Thank you to Justin Sayles. And we will be back with more of something, but certainly the last of us. Thank you so much for all of your emails. You've already sent us to. What is the email address?

[Rob Mahoney]

Rob, honey, this is your brain on shroomsmail.com but also email [e-mail] anytime you like. And I would say in particular about this show, Joe, about your friends and neighbors. How are you feeling about it? What is resonating with you? Which of the two parties would you like to participate in and why. I want to hear all those takes. And we're trying to figure out exactly how we want to continue along with this show. So it helps us for sure.

[Joanna Robinson]

Perfect. All right, we will see you soon. Bye.