‘Your Friends & Neighbors’ Episode 8 With Bill Simmons

Summary

The Prestige TV Podcast Summary: ‘Your Friends & Neighbors’ Episode 8 With Bill Simmons

Release Date: May 23, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 8 of “Your Friends & Neighbors”, hosted by Bill Simmons alongside Amy Poehler and Rob Mahoney, the trio delves deep into their analysis of the Apple TV show “Your Friends & Neighbors.” This episode offers a comprehensive discussion on character development, plot intricacies, and the overall direction of the series as it approaches its season finale.

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Overview of “Your Friends & Neighbors”

Bill Simmons opens the conversation by expressing his initial jealousy of Amy and Rob's extensive recaps of the show. Over eight episodes, Simmons has grown increasingly fond of the series, acknowledging its depth and appeal, even if it doesn't align with marquee shows like “Succession.”

Simmons notes, “I think this is like a great show,” highlighting its growing complexity and engagement as the season progresses.

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Cast Performances and Character Analysis

The hosts discuss standout performances, particularly praising Jon Hamm and Amanda Peet. While Hamm's portrayal of Coop captivates, Peet's character, Mel, is both intriguing and enigmatic.

Amy Poehler remarks on Peet's versatility, suggesting that casting choices like Carrie Coon could elevate the role: “She plays every scene the same way... It got kitschy.” This sentiment is shared by Rob, who appreciates the chemistry between Hamm and Peet but feels some characters lack depth.

Rob Mahoney points out that while the main duo shines, supporting characters like Nick lack the complexity needed to sustain long-term engagement: “He's a sociopath who's capable of anything.”

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Plot Discussions and Murder Mystery Speculation

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting the central murder mystery. The hosts speculate on potential culprits, debating characters like Sam (Olivia Munn) and the possibility of unexpected antagonists.

Bill Simmons theorizes, “Maybe it's Sam,” leaning towards a predictable yet satisfying resolution. Rob Mahoney introduces alternative theories, including minor characters like Torey’s college boyfriend, adding layers to the speculation.

The discussion also touches upon Coop's kleptomania, debating whether his actions are a fleeting midlife crisis or the foundation for a more extensive criminal enterprise in future seasons.

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Production and Season Structure Insights

The conversation shifts to the show's production aspects, critiquing its nine-episode structure. The hosts argue that the series could benefit from a more concise format, suggesting that certain subplots feel extraneous and detract from the main narrative.

Amy Poehler emphasizes the potential for a tighter storyline: “I think this could have been a six-episode season easily.” Simmons concurs, proposing that a streamlined approach would enhance the show's impact.

They also discuss the chances of recurring characters and the feasibility of crossover events, reminiscing about successful past TV crossovers to ponder future possibilities for “Your Friends & Neighbors.”

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Broader Discussion on Apple TV and Streaming Platforms

Beyond the specific show, the hosts engage in a broader conversation about Apple TV's place in the streaming landscape. They compare Apple’s strategy to other platforms like HBO and Netflix, noting Apple's reliance on star power over innovative storytelling.

Bill Simmons critiques Apple’s breeding ground for "glossy" and "star-driven" content, contrasting it with HBO’s model of nurturing original narratives: “Apple is kind of chasing whatever hits... They have no consistent brand identity.”

The discussion extends to the challenges of shorter season formats inherited from European models, debating their effectiveness in American television.

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Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, the hosts express optimism for the show's future, hoping that the finale resolves lingering mysteries satisfactorily. They anticipate that subsequent seasons will refine the storytelling, focusing on the strengths of its core cast while shedding less impactful subplots.

Rob Mahoney concludes with enthusiasm: “I can't wait to be surprised. I can't wait to see what happens.”

Overall, Episode 8 of “Your Friends & Neighbors” on The Prestige TV Podcast provides an insightful and critical examination of the show's current trajectory, character dynamics, and its position within the competitive streaming arena.

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Note: This summary adheres to copyright guidelines by paraphrasing the content provided without directly quoting lengthy excerpts.

Transcript

[Amy Poehler]

Hi, everyone, it's Amy Poehler and I'm launching a new podcast called Good Hang. In preparation for that, I asked some of my friends to send in some videos and give me some advice. Just be yourself and the guests will come. Don't be the celebrity that this is their, like, sixth thing they're doing.

[Bill Simmons]

I love true crime and cooking podcasts. Is there any way you could combine the two?

[Amy Poehler]

Well, everyone has an opinion and a podcast, so join me for Good Hang. It's rough out there. We're just trying to lighten it up a little bit. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever finish a movie and the next thing you know, you're totally obsessed. Like I'm talking about ordering a book about 70s film lighting or buying the soundtrack on vinyl. Kind of obsessed. Whatever it is, prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com prime and follow your obsession wherever it goes. This episode is brought to you by Lionsgate. From the world of John Wick comes the movie Ballerina, only in theaters June 6th. The greatest action franchise of the past decade is back, starring Ana de Armas and Keanu Reeves returning as John Wick. Everything youg Love is here. The mythology, the characters, the high intensity action. But this time, the universe expands with new faces, new settings, and even higher stakes. Ballerina, only in theaters June 6th. All right. Your Friends and Neighbors, Episode 8 I'm Bill Simmons. I'm. I'm. I'm hosting just because Rob Mahoney and Joanna, they needed somebody to set some picks and grab some rebounds. Good to see both of you. You guys have been recapping this show all season. I've been jealous. It's a show that I like more and more every episode. And now after eight episodes, we've gotten to the point that, dare I say, I think this is like, kind of a great show.

[Bill Simmons]

Tell me why.

[Amy Poehler]

Is that too strong?

[Rob Mahoney]

Sell us.

[Bill Simmons]

Tell us why, Bill.

[Amy Poehler]

Here's what I'm looking for from an Apple TV show. Tell me, are you keeping my interests every week? Do I know where you're going? Do you have a couple actors that I like? Are you keeping me on my toes? Am I having a good time when I'm watching it? This show checks all the boxes for me. I don't think it's succession. It's not going to. I don't think it's going to win the Emmy for best show. But I'm having a really good time with the show and that's why I Wanted to join the recap, Joanna.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, here's my question. Last time, last time we talked, you told me this was like a background show for you, that you would like watch it and sort of only had to partially pay attention. Do you feel like as the season has gone on and has captured more.

[Amy Poehler]

And more of your attention, I feel like that shifted. It has gone from. I was. What did I say? The lookup with that first look down.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

I find myself looking up almost the entire show.

[Bill Simmons]

Now, is it the murder mystery that did it for you or what do you think changed it for you?

[Amy Poehler]

So I made a basketball joke when we were texting about. This show is a little like the Denver Nuggets where it's. It's top heavy with its stars. But I really like Ham and Pete. I think they're just great on this show and I think that's why I like it so much. Rob, is that you like the Nuggets parallels with the show that I wouldn't say the bench is deep.

[Rob Mahoney]

No.

[Amy Poehler]

I think there's some people that can come in and some airball some threes in short doses. But I think the stars, I think this is a really good vehicle for both of them.

[Rob Mahoney]

They're both great. And when they're in scenes together, it pretty much always pops. Like those two characters work together. Those two actors clearly have a lot of chemistry. It's when you wade into the equivalent of giving like Jalen Pickett 20 minutes in the middle of this season. Yeah, there's too many characters. There's too much bloat. Joe and I have been talking about it for weeks. You know, we got an email from Abby asking us, like, who we would excise from this show if we had to chop a character off. If we had to send a character to Mandyville, who would we send? I gotta say, after this week, I don't know what's going on with this Elena Chivo storyline. And I hate to lose the outsider perspective on this ultra rich neighborhood and just get rid of all that stuff, but I have no idea what it's for or what purpose it's serving within. I showed that otherwise. I like the murder mystery, I like the Jon Hamm, Amanda, Pete stuff. There's just all these extraneous threads that I don't really get.

[Amy Poehler]

It's funny you mentioned that because every. That's a classic example of I'm looking down and going through emails when we're doing the Atlanta Chiva stuff. I just don't really care. And anytime we're back with the friend group and the neighborhood and the wealth and some of the shows about. I'm, like, way more interested. Joanna.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, no, I agree. I think I might cut the Elena stuff. I might cut the Barney's home life. There's just, like, a few. There's like, Barney works as, like, the friend sidekick. He's always really fun in the scenes that he's in. And then we're trying to deepen his storyline by taking, like, going into his home life, meeting his in laws and stuff like that. And I'm just like, I'm not that interested with love and respect and so. And most of the stuff with the kids, like, most of the kids storylines, I'm just sort of like, I don't. You know, we cut away in this episode, we cut away to Hunter, like, listening to music on his headphones, you know, in a balcony in his school. And I was like, what indie movie is this that we have just, like, left the show for, like. So, yeah, when it boils down to Amanda, Pete, Jon Hamm, Olivia Munn, like, you know, when you're at the core, it works, and there's just so much spread around it that doesn't work for me. So that's where I am.

[Amy Poehler]

So I don't. As. You know, I don't like most kid characters in TV shows. I always feel like they get them wrong and they're. They're not realistic enough. A lot of the time. I do understand what they're doing with the kids in this show. And just like, I watched the pilot again to get ready for this, try to figure out after eight episodes, how true was the pilot to what we're watching now. The show is really about, like, what happens when you hit this point where you peaked. And, you know, like, when you think about, like, the first 10 minutes of the pilot, and it's t. It's. It has that great scene in the bar with him and the younger person who works in the. In his office that they're eventually gonna end up with.

[Rob Mahoney]

It was a scene at the bar. Was it a great scene at the bar?

[Amy Poehler]

But there's a lot going on in there for the outside that really. There's a lot of context that I didn't catch the first time. They're basically setting up the whole show in that scene, and his life's about to. Basically, the rug's about to be pulled out, and he doesn't realize it yet, but then they have that part where it's like, you buy your first house and it has the montage of how your life changes and then you end up here. How did I end up here? What did I do now? I just spent the last 20 years putting in all the time and all of these different things, and now I'm here. And I think that's what the kids kind of represent. It's like, not only am I here, I had these kids I put all this time into, and now neither of them like me. And I have. I have. I can't connect with either of them in any way on top of all this other shit that's going on. So, I don't know, maybe it's. I'm at the right age for a show like this, but because I've seen it happen with people, I know where for sure, you hit a point professionally and personally, and you're just like, fuck, what was this? What's the point of all this?

[Bill Simmons]

The way you put it is like, you've peaked. I think it's also just sort of like. And when you reach that peak and you're like, oh, this is it. This is what I've been working for. Like, this idea. And it's in the pilot, this idea that you've been sold a. A false American dream. This idea of, like, you go to the right school, you work hard enough, you've got the two kids, the hot wife, the nice house, the nice car, and you'll be happy and fulfilled.

[Amy Poehler]

And you have stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And you're stuff. And you're just empty inside. Oops. Like, I thought this is what it was all about. It's not what it's all about. And that if the arc of the story is Coop figures out what it's all really about, this sort of American Beauty storyline, et cetera, et cetera, that's fine. But then it's just like. I think it's also trying to be too deep and too shallow at the same time. Does that make sense?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's really trying to have its caviar and eat it too. And I would almost prefer, I think, the shallower version of the show, the show that's not quoting Oscar Wilde and having big meditations on materialism, just revel in being indulgent. I think the show is better at that. I think it's better at the cocaine bender part of this than it is the, like, let's think about our lives part of this.

[Amy Poehler]

That's what I liked about episode eight is it leaned into it stuff is, I think, the kind of secret driving force of the show because they. It gets mentioned in the pilot and Then they mention it in the last couple episodes, too, and especially Barney, where he's like, it's a point. All this. Yeah, why do I have this? And then you think, like, Ham's character, part of how he kind of gets stability over his own life again, is he starts stealing this random stuff from other people that he knows that they don't really care about, that they got for, like, status or some sort of dumb reason. And he's stealing it now so he could, you know, get some money back and some control over everything. But I think that concept's really interesting, too, especially when you get older. It's like, why do I have this? Why did I care about this? Why did I collect this? Why do. Why do I have 12 watches? You know, this show's like, tapping into. And it's doing it pretty clumsily, I agree. But it's tapping into themes that I think are pretty interesting for a TV show that I haven't seen yet.

[Bill Simmons]

I have a question for you about the. About the, like, as a father of kids part.

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you. You know, I have gotten emails from listeners who are like, hey, you're not a parent, so you have no idea what you're talking about. Fair. But, like, when you get always tough.

[Amy Poehler]

That'S always a tough take of you. You know, you don't understand this world because, let's say, settle down.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

Anyone can have a kid. But.

[Bill Simmons]

But I'm curious for you, as like, a father of kids in, like, the same, like, almost the same age range, like the. The college trip episode, the, like, car scene where he's yelling about, you know, remembering them and they're like, undying love when they were kids and now feeling so distanced from them. Is that something you like? Not, like, do you connect to personally, but you're like, that is a feeling that a lot of people in my age have about their kids. Or how did you feel about that?

[Amy Poehler]

I actually thought the college scene was the best episode. I mean, the college episode, I thought start to finish, but the reason it was the best episode was it had the two best people on the show together all the time. And I just want to see that.

[Rob Mahoney]

What a formula. What if the show was just that?

[Amy Poehler]

Go figure. That worked really well. But what was cool about it, and I identified with a little of it, is when you have little kids, you're spending. You're just together as a unit for, I don't know, 12 years, 14 years, whatever it is. It's just. It's the three of you, the four of you, the five of you. That's it. Like, you're like a pack. And then what happens is the pack starts to, you know, people go this way. Maybe somebody gets a driver's license. Maybe somebody goes off to college. And this happens where, you know, everybody kind of scatters. So putting them in the car together on this trip where they're, like, not kind of used to being together as a group like that anymore, I thought that was really interesting like that to me, like, whoever is doing this show is clearly trying to say stuff about things that have happened to them in their life and, you know, things about parenthood and peeking too early. I don't know. I, like. I'm kind of admire the swings that it's trying to take, but I do feel like the second season of the show is going to be better.

[Bill Simmons]

This is what we were talking about. We really agree, like, I think. I think they're figuring out as they go this season what works and what doesn't. And we all agree. We know Amanda, Pete and Jon Hamm work, and I think we all agree that Olivia Munn works and stuff. And so if they could just focus in on the central story, though, I don't know where we go. It's too early to think about this because we still have the finale to go. But I'm curious, how does this. What's the longevity of the show? Does Coop keep stealing? Is he going to jail for murder? Where are we going with a story?

[Amy Poehler]

He hasn't stolen anything for how many episodes?

[Rob Mahoney]

It's been a minute.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's been like three episodes. Yeah. So it was like. Cause that seems. That was like the show we were sold. Gentleman robber. Like, guy robs his friends in the neighborhood. So is that the premise going forward? Are they just gonna, like, zag on the premise and say, that was the hook to get you in? But actually, that was just a brief phase in Coop's midlife crisis, and he's gonna do something else with it. You know what I mean?

[Rob Mahoney]

Season two is gonna be the insurance fraud season. Season three is the racketeering season. You know, like, there's many criminal enterprises to undergo as far as the core of the show. Like, I think Sam is an interesting character to bring up with Olivia Mun. Will. Will she be on the show? Did she commit murder?

[Bill Simmons]

We're so convinced she's the murderer, Bill, don't you agree?

[Rob Mahoney]

I'm so confused.

[Amy Poehler]

You just go for likely suspects. It can't be somebody we don't have any history with. On the show. So it has to be somebody we know.

[Rob Mahoney]

I kind of think it's going to be someone we don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

You think so? You think it's being random?

[Rob Mahoney]

I mean, let's. Let's run through it. Sam, we are being sold, guilty pretty hard from Olivia Munn's performance, kind of over and over and over. All the circumstantial evidence kind of points to her in a way that makes me think it's not her. But we have no, like, plausible alternative. We've been presented. So as. As a jury member, I'm looking at Sam, right? If it's not Sam, is it like an unnamed mafia member? We've been told Paul was, like, looped in with organized crime in some way. Did he just, like, get whacked because he didn't play along with whatever was happening? Is it. I just literally don't even. Is it one of the kids? This is Apple. We know what they're capable of on this particular network. I just don't know. If it's not Sam, who is it?

[Bill Simmons]

Bill, you said it sounds like you're surprised, but presumed it isn't. Did the. It's the kids.

[Amy Poehler]

No, I know. For them to do that card a second time, I'm like, jesus, really? We're gonna do that?

[Bill Simmons]

They're like, the kids are not. All right. And let us tell you why. I mean, the idea that. What about the idea that Sam hired a hitman? Like, that Sam engineered it but didn't pull the trigger. What do you think about that? And could we still have Sam on the show if she hired a hitman to kill Paul?

[Rob Mahoney]

So she might have done it, but not in cold blood herself. And thus, like, can go, like, scot free from the trial, right?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. What do you think, Bill?

[Amy Poehler]

Rob makes a strong point. It's too much circumstantial evidence pointing to Sam. It feels too easy.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

It can't be her. Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

So we have two episodes left, right? One.

[Rob Mahoney]

Just one.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a nine episode season. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

We're going straight to trial in episode nine. We got it.

[Amy Poehler]

Nine episode season.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

What the fuck?

[Rob Mahoney]

I don't know.

[Amy Poehler]

Who has a nine episodes? I've never heard of such a thing. 8, 10, or 12.

[Bill Simmons]

Apple is quite whimsical sometimes with their season lengths. So, yeah, it's a nine episode season. It's only one more episode to, like, either wrap up the murder mystery or, you know, spill it over into season two.

[Amy Poehler]

Stepping back, big picture.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

You create A show like this, and you spend like a year working on the pilot and you're creating this. And the pilot, I think, was really good. I think we all like the pilot. It's just. It's a fun watch, even though there's a lot of characters in it. But it's. It's smart. It lays out what the show's going to be. So they spend a year on that. And then I think you have to do a document that spells out, here's what's going to happen the rest of the season. So if they buy the pilot, and I think Apple probably greenlights the whole season, but they buy the. They greenlight the season. We already have the pilot. Now you get a writer's room, you got to go and you got to do the whole thing. So they know where this is going in the pilot. And there's only one episode left.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why I'm like, maybe it just is Sam, you know?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah. Maybe it's that simple.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe there isn't, like, one more twist coming. Maybe it's just Sam, the only other one.

[Amy Poehler]

From everything they've laid out, knowing that they probably have sketched out at least the first season and they have no idea what's going to happen is there's no way it's Barney, right?

[Rob Mahoney]

No. I think Barney's got to be safe because he's a.

[Amy Poehler]

He's a little crazy, though. He's a wild card.

[Bill Simmons]

Barney is interesting. Nick is another one that I've seen floated around and that was too. That would solve some problems for Coop if Nick is taken off the board entirely. I guess.

[Amy Poehler]

What? From a motive standpoint, what are the.

[Bill Simmons]

Reasons Sam clears motive? Right. She hates him, they're going through a.

[Rob Mahoney]

Messy divorce, $20 million, all that stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Coop has his own motives, potentially, in terms of whatever. We know Coop didn't do it because we were with him. So everyone else is like, everyone hates Paul. Or maybe he's got money problems. But again, like, if it's someone in the neighborhood, that makes no sense to me. So then it would have to be to Rob's point, just like some random guy he owes money to. Maybe it's the art dealers do that, though.

[Amy Poehler]

Like.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree, I agree. So.

[Rob Mahoney]

But there's no track on anybody else, you know, that's why I think it.

[Amy Poehler]

Has to be seen.

[Rob Mahoney]

Although here. Here's a piece of evidence for Nick in this episode. He is so generally unbothered by the fact that the woman he was trying to spend the rest of his life with has just Cheated on him with her ex. Like, once he gets it out with Mel up front, he just goes and, like, hangs out with Coop for the night. And, like, they're just having a night out on the town. Clearly he's a sociopath who's capable of anything. That's all I'm saying. There is a degree of removal from reality.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Amy Poehler]

Well, you go either sociopath or bad actor. It's always a question.

[Bill Simmons]

It's always a question you have to ask yourself. The thing that Rob and I have been fixating on is, like, for the gun to get in the trunk of the car, it has to be someone who knows, as we do, as we've seen all season, that the latch on that trunk is faulty. And so it could be Nick, because I think Nick has seen it, but it's certainly Sam has seen it, but not a random mafioso. Like, whoever has that gun has to be someone who knows they can get it into the trunk of Coop's car.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can I present one more possible possible murderer, please. Torey's college boyfriend, whom Coop punched in the dick.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh.

[Rob Mahoney]

He has seen the trunk pop open during one of those sequences at the house. Clearly has a motive. He's gotten punched in the dick, I think now several times.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes.

[Rob Mahoney]

He's working some stuff out. Maybe he's trying to frame Coop for murder.

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah. The question is, was his goal. Was his role in the show just to be punched in the dick over and over again? And he's the punched in the dick guy.

[Bill Simmons]

So tough part is that just the character description, like something on the call. She's willing to get punched in the dick multiple times.

[Amy Poehler]

His agent selling him for other roles. He's the punched in the dick.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he got punched in the dick by the Jon Hamm.

[Amy Poehler]

Wait, the framing Jon Hamm with the gun. It's funny that we're calling him John Hamm and not Coop, but I just like, he's just Jon Hamm. Every time I see him in anything, I'm just like, that's Jon Hamm.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

But it's funny. The framing piece of it maybe is a bigger clue. The. Because now it's like, who has. Who has a real reason to get him in trouble? Which would be the. The second husband would mean the Pete's boyfriend or husband. Are they married?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah. He would have the most reason to try to fudge Coop over. He's already taken everything he could take from him.

[Bill Simmons]

The reason I'm suspicious is, like, the timing of it in terms of Sam finds out that they're on to Coop at the police station. And that's when the gun makes its way into Coop's car, which is why I feel like Sam had to have put the gun in his car. Whether or not she's the one who pulled the trigger I think is a question I'm willing to ask. In terms of who put the gun in his car, I feel like it has to be her and. Yeah, but you.

[Amy Poehler]

You two like Olivia Munn as Sam, I think more than I do.

[Rob Mahoney]

I do, for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, tell me what you don't like about it.

[Amy Poehler]

I just don't think she's as good of an actor as him and Pete. I think she's got a pretty limited ceiling for where to go, whereas I think that's a great part. And if you put, like. Put Carrie Coon in that part.

[Rob Mahoney]

Well, this is an unfair.

[Amy Poehler]

I'm just saying. I'm just saying, put Carrie Coon in.

[Rob Mahoney]

My job and she's better.

[Amy Poehler]

Not to sound like I'm on first take, but I think there's a lot of meat on that part.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's take care of the table. That's unfair. Who else would you put?

[Amy Poehler]

I don't think it's unfair. This is an Apple show. They spend crazy amounts of money. The morning show has a budget that's bigger than the Knicks. Like, they have the money.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you put Leslie Bibb? Could you put one of the other fancies in there? Could you put Leslie Bibb in that role?

[Amy Poehler]

No, because I. I think I need some different. Some different gears with the character that I'm not getting. I don't. Is she evil? Is she nice? Is she a victim? I can't read it because she's playing every scene that. Not to sound like Martin Scorsese, but she's. She plays all the scenes the same way. Even the coffee. Coffee fight.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God. Real low point of the show is the coffee shop fight.

[Amy Poehler]

But that should have been a cool scene. It was, because you have people videotaping it. It just. I don't know. It got kitschy.

[Rob Mahoney]

It got very kitschy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it got very kitschy. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Amy Poehler]

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[Bill Simmons]

[e-mail] what did you think of the clubbing montage, Bill?

[Amy Poehler]

I mean that's why I'm here. Okay, not here on the podcast. I'm here for the show. It's like they kind of ran out of ideas for episode eight and they're like let's these three guys, one of whom just cheated the other guy's current girlfriend who's his ex wife, whatever. And they're fine now because he punched him in the face once and let's go do cocaine.

[Rob Mahoney]

It's a touching portrait of male friendship, I would say.

[Bill Simmons]

And Barney, who's like I think you're up to Shit, you kind of got me run over by a car in a certain way, from a certain point of view. Let's go to the club. And then we've got those two randos who work for Coug who are like, we've got a bunch of cocaine.

[Amy Poehler]

I thought it was great. I had a great time for 15 minutes. We end up at a country club. We're driving a cart around. It's all of it I thought was really compelling.

[Rob Mahoney]

When the two finance bros.

[Amy Poehler]

I have lower standards than both of you.

[Rob Mahoney]

When the two finance bros. Showed up and Coop hits him with the look with the cat dragged in just an all time white guy ism. I'm like, okay, we're in the zone now. This show understands what it's trying to be. It understands what it is. When they're on the golf course and Coop is talking about how he doesn't even understand the rules of the world anymore. He thought he understood them, Bill. That was me after game one of the Eastern Conference finals. I don't know what is possible. I don't know what world we're living in, but we're here.

[Amy Poehler]

And I thought. I thought Barney had a really good. I think Barney's a good actor. Who's that actor?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah, he's. He's really good. And he's a. He's like a writer and an EP on the show as well.

[Amy Poehler]

So, like that his monologue was really good and kind of summed up where we were after eight episodes with the show itself. Like, what's the point of all this? I don't know. I didn't expect that to come out of him.

[Bill Simmons]

No. Barney's been consistently great. I really like that actor. I just don't think I need, like, again his home life. But I really like all of his scenes with Jon Hamm. Do you know who I can't tolerate. And I just. I'm going to out him right now. We got a lot of texts from Jacoby about this as well. Is the detective character that they brought in at the end of the season, I'm just like, what's happening? What is his energy? Why are we doing this here at the end of the season? I don't understand it at all.

[Amy Poehler]

Feels like generic AI Detective.

[Rob Mahoney]

It kind of does.

[Amy Poehler]

There's another person that I think is actually really good.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is it Cat? The.

[Amy Poehler]

Oh, the attorney. The attorney. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's great.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree. Yeah, yeah, she is great.

[Amy Poehler]

And part of my issue is half watching the first couple episodes that I forgot she was sleeping with her Boyfriend. I was like. I was like, oh, yeah. But I think she's really good. I like her.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think so too. I think, like, having her as an actual character on the show beyond just mom who's sleeping with her daughter's boyfriend has been a boon. And having her like kind of dragged into this situation against her will where it's like she has this self preservation instinct to not be outed to the neighborhood. And so she's temporarily aligned with Coop. But then you also have this part where Coop can't tell her the truth. Cause he doesn't want to like fuel the gossip machine about what he was actually doing at the murder scene. And so then I think that puts those characters at a actually pretty interesting impasse.

[Bill Simmons]

Rob, is this why you want the court case to be season two? You just want it to become the cat show, essentially.

[Amy Poehler]

Oh, is that so you want a trial?

[Rob Mahoney]

Season two, when she gives Coop the speech about how she doesn't think a jury will find him to be truthful, I'm like, we are just literally doing Presumed Innocent. Like we were just beat for beat setting it up and.

[Amy Poehler]

Sounds great.

[Rob Mahoney]

I enjoyed that and I would enjoy this.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what I think they should really do? They should make season two like a crossover. It's a Presumed Innocent, you know, your Friends and Neighbors crossover court case season.

[Amy Poehler]

That's a great idea.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree. Let's franchise that.

[Amy Poehler]

Absolutely. Jake Gyllenhaal is all of a sudden in the show.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's go.

[Bill Simmons]

I would watch it, the guy who.

[Amy Poehler]

Had the heart attack, but it turned out he just said indigestion. He's in there.

[Bill Simmons]

Bill Camp. What is he doing? Sirens over here?

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah, it's not a heart. I just. It was that burrito I ate.

[Bill Simmons]

Did you want to talk about the Amanda Pete of it all? Do you want to get your. Pete takes off?

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah, I do.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Amy Poehler]

It's important.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Amy Poehler]

I'm a huge fan. I think her career is really interesting. It's almost like to dive into sports for me and Rob, but it's the athlete that I just felt like never found the right team, but was always really good and everybody always appreciated them. And I think what's interesting about her career is she never had the one thing that you would say like. Like everyone knows her for the obituary. Like, Tom Cruise dies and it's like Tom Cruise, star of Top Gun. And then they'll let Mission Impossible and they'll. I think everybody would have a different one. I was telling Joanna that one of my wife's Favorite movies is a lot like love with her and Ashton Kutcher. It's a weird one. I know.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a classic. They used to play that on Comedy Central all the time.

[Amy Poehler]

Did they? It's a rewatchable. It was always tbs, tnt, Comedy Central. It's got great music and she's just amazing in it. And she's so good that Ashton Kutcher is actually good in it. And he's not a good actor, but he's good because she's good. She had the whole nine yards, which I think was when she really hit. And she's been in a bunch of stuff. You know, she. She has a family. Like, she really scaled back from acting because she was raising kids. But. But I see her in this show and I'm like, man, there's. I just think she's been really Good now for 25 plus years. And I wish there were more things we could point to where, like, she was awesome in that. She was awesome in that.

[Bill Simmons]

I do feel like for a while, for I don't know what reason, like she was on Brockmire for several seasons, but I think for like a while she became like David Benioff's wife was like the thing she was most known for, which is crazy. Like, absolutely insane for me. The number one. And this isn't fair because it's definitely supporting role. But what goes at the top of Amanda Peet's obituary, a really morbid way to think about this is something's gotta give. She's really, really good in that movie. Supporting, but she's really, really fun and good at that movie. Rob, what's your. What's your Amanda Pete? Is it Studio 60?

[Rob Mahoney]

No, Bill mentioned it. It is the whole nine yards for me. A movie that I think does not get the respect it deserves. And also if we're setting up the template for Suburban Malaise plus murder, that is this show, a lot of it is right there in the whole nine yards. And I think part of the reason you would cast her in a part like this is, you know, she can play this sort of off kilter, walking the line tonality pretty well. I actually think other than. And I say this term not because I like this term, but because I think the show would call this a cat fight in terms of what happens in the coffee shop. It seems to really revel in this idea of like these two ladies are hitting each other and we're putting it on the Internet. Other than that, I actually think the Mel stuff is pretty good on balance. I Think some of that is like, I think Amanda Pete is really good, but setting up this idea that that is a self destructive character in her own right. Like she's on like a parallel journey to Cooper in which her pain is linked to him and obviously related to their relationship. But that character has a lot going on and Amanda Pete as a performer has a lot going on in a way that I think has really sold me over the course of the season, you know, fist to cuffs be damned.

[Amy Poehler]

We've talked Ciara and I talked Once about Studio 60 on this feed actually after Matthew Perry died. And the first few episodes of that show are fascinating cause all the bones are there for a show that should have been on for a long time. And there's a lot of self inflicted errors. But what's interesting about it, rewatching it is Amanda Pete's great in it and Matthew Perry's great. And in a weird way it was the best either of them had been. And in like a real big thing like that. And what's weird about that show and her is that she gets pregnant in real life during that. And it kind of changed how they had to.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

Do the show because it was supposed to be this whole moonlighting, cat and mouse game with yeah. Her, Matthew Perry and then she got pregnant in real life and they had to kind of write around it. And then Sorkin started doing Sorkin stuff and then all of a sudden the show's just canceled.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

But when you watch the first couple episodes of that show, like, you know, there was a reason that it was. There was a her versus Julia Roberts argument for a couple years there about who was in the late 90s about. It felt like they were on each other's corner.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh really?

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah. After whole nine yards it really felt like Amanda Pete was I think gonna become.

[Bill Simmons]

That feels like a massive star. An incredibly beautiful jaw based assessment.

[Amy Poehler]

Well, they looked alike. Yeah. I mean there' question like she and Julia Roberts was a little older, but it was like Amanda Pete is now coming and she's the next version of Julia Roberts and get ready. But you know, Sandra Bullock took some of those spots. Reese Witherspoon took a couple and she just. Just never quite happened.

[Bill Simmons]

I think, I think you both are right in terms of identifying that like Amanda Pete, like I was going through her roles and a lot of the roles are like wife and girlfriend. Like that's a lot of what she's played. But like it has to be something. I think the word Rob just uses like off kilter. Like there's something slightly unhinged about her energy in a great way. And like, if Mel were just Coop's wife who cheated on him because she felt neglected or. Or he wasn't checked out of their marriage, or she was going through her own midlife thing or whatever it is. But, like, Mel, who vandalizes cars and steals things and, like, all of that stuff is. I still don't really want to have a meal with her, but I am, like, interested in her.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's an interesting character. Yeah. I think that's the threshold that the show is trying to reach is like, can enough of these people be interesting while also being damaged and kind of weird and sometimes unlikable in their way? And it seems like there's a wide range of opinion on Coop with that, Bill, as far as, like, some people really, like, resonate with him or like, like, we've gotten some emails and comments that are straight up, go, Coop. I'm like, I don't know what show you're watching, with all due respect, but I think we kind of waffle episode to episode where there's sometimes where Jon Hamm is, like, undeniably charming, and there's sometimes where this character absolutely sucks.

[Bill Simmons]

Jesus Christ, Coop. Yeah. So, yeah. Where are you, Bill?

[Amy Poehler]

Well, I think that's an important point going back to Amanda Pete, too. We shouldn't, like, her character. Like, think about fundamentally, her character starts cheating on her husband with one of his best friends and then takes all his stuff and kind of sends him down a spiral. She should be the villain of the show. And I don't feel like she's a villain at all, because I like Amanda Pete. And then you look at John Hamm, it's like, this is fundamentally, like, not a good guy. Yeah, why am I rooting for him? But that's the TV conundrum of the last 25 plus years of I'm rooting for this person that's definitely not a hero. I mean, making excuses for their conduct.

[Bill Simmons]

But, like, this is such a different proposition for me than Don Draper, because, like, Jon Hamm is Don Draper. I am rooting. I'm endlessly fascinated by Don Draper. I am rooting for him, for Coop. I'm kind of like, I'm glad he got arrested and, like, I don't want him to go to jail for murder he didn't commit. But, like, yeah, you know, this guy needs. Like, to your point, if the whole point of the story is like, this guy lost everything, lost his wife, lost his kids, lost his house, lost his job, Lost his car? No, he has his car, Et cetera, et cetera. How can he get it? What lesson does he have to learn to get it back? Then shouldn't we be rooting for him to, like, like, have a rude awakening when he's in the jail cell? He's like, this is the most honest moment I've ever. First honest moment I've ever had or something like that.

[Amy Poehler]

No. You know what? I'm rooting for him to get out and start stealing shit again. Does that make me a bad person?

[Bill Simmons]

No. For the fun of the show, I need season two to be him stealing more stuff and, like, blackmailing his neighbors into doing things for him. Like, that's. I need the stealing to resume. That's what I need for the show. Definitely. Absolutely.

[Rob Mahoney]

Stealing plus blackmail is an interesting. Like, if he has kind of his tendrils in this entire community and is, like, manipulating all these people for his purpose. I was like, we set up earlier this season. He's seeing, you know, the SAT answers or the exam answers in the drawers. Like, he's seeing all this information as much as he's seeing all this, like, very expensive stuff. And I would love to see the show capitalize on that more, as it has with Kat.

[Amy Poehler]

Well, so the two fundamental questions are, is everybody else going to find out he's been stealing? Because he tells his buddy when they're just hammered at the golf course, but he probably forgets he's conked out.

[Bill Simmons]

He's out. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Also, we should say Barney also says during that conversation, basically, I wouldn't care if you did commit murder. To which I was then sent down a spiral of do I want the ride or die, friend who doesn't care that I commit murder, or should I be bothered that my friend would not care that I committed murder?

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah. That's Joe House for me. He wouldn't judge either way.

[Rob Mahoney]

No. Joe, what's your feel?

[Bill Simmons]

I would. I would care if you committed murder.

[Rob Mahoney]

See, I feel like that's where I want to be. I want the kind of friends who would care.

[Amy Poehler]

But the two things that haven't been resolved are the. What? When will people find out that he's been stealing and then who murdered. Who murdered Paul?

[Bill Simmons]

Not to bring my, like, nerdy ringer verse stuff into this, but this is like any sort of superhero show where it starts out like someone has a secret identity. They're a theory thief or whatever.

[Rob Mahoney]

Coop is Daredevil.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Coop is Buffy the Vampire Slayer or whatever. And then, like, brings a couple friends into the group and then, like, at the end of the show, everyone knows that this person is a superhero, but at first it's like, who are they bringing in? So, like, Elena's in on it?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But, like, is Barney. I want Barney in on this so that he can, like, wash the money. I want Mel in on this so that she can, like, get her shoplifting off. Yeah, like, exactly. So I want the criminal enterprise to grow a bit as we. As we move forward in the show. That's what I'm.

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah. I wonder if they've structured this out or not, because I don't know, there's a chance. It was just like, hey, we can get John Hamm. He liked the pilot. All right, let's try to figure out the and. But they don't like what you just laid out. Where this becomes basically Ozark. And it's him and Barney are just running this organized crime ring with their. And stealing from everybody they know. It's like, okay, I would watch that. Yeah, that sounds great.

[Rob Mahoney]

You heard it from the two finance bros. As soon as Coop left the office, everything went downhill. You know, he has a managerial mind. He has a mind for organizing people and things.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, this is another thing. Did we bring those guys in this episode to let us know things aren't going well at the office so that Coop will be offered his job back before the season is over?

[Amy Poehler]

I had that thought too.

[Rob Mahoney]

Seems possible.

[Amy Poehler]

It feels like there's a come for a. He actually comes back, he's gets his job back. He actually has real shit it. And then he also has these skeletons of the stuff he's done.

[Bill Simmons]

But is it like, does he want to steal anyway? Because once you've had a taste, you can't walk away from the light.

[Amy Poehler]

That's how I feel. I feel that every day. Yeah. Every time I walk into a Target, I just want to still take some toothpaste. And they started locking the camera Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

Were you ever, like, a shoplifter?

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, good question.

[Amy Poehler]

Never. Once I. I stole. When I was six, I stole a pack of hockey cards once from a drugstore. Yeah, I actually stole a three pack or football cards and I put them in the closet. My mom found them, and I immediately broke down and confessed.

[Bill Simmons]

And that was it.

[Amy Poehler]

That was it. I was done. I was like, I'd be a terrible criminal. I folded in five seconds. Well, think about this too. Like, compared to where we're going in season one, we know they already picked up season two before we ever saw an episode. So that makes me wonder. Was this did they have the first two seasons figured out? So everything we're laying out is where we're heading.

[Bill Simmons]

Sometimes they sketch the whole series out more and more studio, like, networks want that. What's your whole series?

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah, but you can't do that sometimes because if you have a character that doesn't work.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, totally.

[Amy Poehler]

And those are in big plans for season two, season three. Like, I would imagine they're probably not feeling like Amanda, Pete's boyfriend, is going to be a massive part of season two.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

This is not the Nick show. Absolutely not.

[Rob Mahoney]

It is not. Although I have to admit, getting the scene last week where he was being questioned by the police while shooting Free Throws was just something I've never seen on screen before. So, you know, we're creating new avenues for procedurals here.

[Amy Poehler]

It feels like he's getting a little better than he was the first couple episodes. He's now passable. He can hit a corner three every once in a while now. It's about all he can do.

[Bill Simmons]

One of our. Yeah. How much is Ali involved? The sister stuff, like, how much is that.

[Amy Poehler]

That's you. You talked about earlier about stuff I'm not positive I care about. Allie's another one.

[Rob Mahoney]

She can go. Unfortunately.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I mean, like, I think they gave. We talked about this at the beginning. I think they gave him Ally. That sounds like a terrible way to put it to make him more likable. Like, he's nice to his, you know, troubled sister and so he's not like a complete asshole. But her side plot with this dude, Bruce.

[Rob Mahoney]

Good lord.

[Bill Simmons]

Deeply boring and terrible. Don't like it at all.

[Amy Poehler]

Incredible episode for Hole, though.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

So great, Great vinyl.

[Rob Mahoney]

Joe and I were just talking about this. Bill, do you think Bruce feels Hole coded to you? Is that a guy who would be into Courtney Love or not?

[Bill Simmons]

Does he have Hole on vinyl? Bruce? That guy didn't feel that way. No, absolutely not.

[Amy Poehler]

I think he might actually like, like the Backstreet Boys. NSYNC era might have been super exciting for him.

[Rob Mahoney]

Skipped grunge to boy bands.

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah. Or he might have just like Kid Rock right away. Who knows?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I said Blink 182, but, you.

[Amy Poehler]

Know Blink 182, right? Yeah, he has he love. He has the Can't Hardly Wait playlist on his Spotify.

[Bill Simmons]

Exactly.

[Amy Poehler]

Well, don't we adding extra songs to it. Yeah, I don't hold. He did not seem like a whole guy.

[Bill Simmons]

No, absolutely.

[Amy Poehler]

We're a lot of whole guys out there in general. I mean, they basically had one album.

[Bill Simmons]

A real rare breed, honestly. And I don't think Bruce qualifies. Bruce, the quarterback does not qualify.

[Amy Poehler]

I have some questions about now that I know it's season finale.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

What do we know about the season finale? Is it an hour and a half? Is it an hour?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it's probably a. Maybe a slightly longer but normal length episode. Not a. Not a double Joe, right?

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's not a double. I can look it up while we're talking. What else do you. What other questions you have, Phil?

[Amy Poehler]

When does this show come back?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think the turnaround could be fairly quick for something like this. Right. It doesn't seem like a super heavy lift in terms of production design. Obviously, you got to get the schedules aligned, but it's mostly Ham and Pete and presumably Mun if she comes back. Otherwise, I think you can get these people back in relatively short order.

[Amy Poehler]

Sam's shooting morning show right now, and I know this because he was on Amy Poehler's pod, which is a great podcast you can find on the ringer. There we go.

[Rob Mahoney]

How about that cross promotion?

[Amy Poehler]

He was in front of a. A big red hot balloon doing the video part in the beginning of the Paul Rudd thing, and it was between scenes on the morning show. So that means they haven't even started filming this yet.

[Bill Simmons]

I can get it next year. Maybe late next year, but you could get it next year.

[Amy Poehler]

Bigger question. Is Apple kind of back for tv? Are we in a better spot with Apple and summer 2025 than we've ever been, where it's not actually surprising when they have a show that I like.

[Bill Simmons]

It'S like a 61 minute finale.

[Rob Mahoney]

Okay, so a little longer.

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah, a little longer. This last episode was like 48 minutes or something.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, so you're not a severance guy. What else are you? And you, you're a morning.

[Amy Poehler]

I'm not a severance guy, but I appreciated the content and what it meant to the ringer. Like, as you know, I root for content. Well, content at all times.

[Rob Mahoney]

Studio guy.

[Bill Simmons]

You like this studio?

[Amy Poehler]

I watched every episode of the Studio. I wasn't always doing backflips about it, but I thought it was really interesting. I thought it took some swings. I don't know if I'd watch every episode 10 times.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Severance was such a massive hit for them that they are sort of drafting off of that to a certain degree. So I think people like when you have such a massive hit like that, people get used to coming to the platform and so then they start like, you Know this is every streamer's dream. Then you just start clicking around. What else do you have available? I'll watch the studio. Oh, I like Jon Hammer. I see his face on this tile. I'll watch your friends and neighbors sort of thing. So like Apple, I think is really dependent on whether or not they have one of those tentpoles. Do they have a TED lasso? Do they have a severance? They've got these like high highs and then just sort of these other things that burble along below the surface, which is like something you could say about a lot of places, but not something like hbo. People are always going to be interested. What is the new HBO show? I'm probably gonna like it sort of thing. But Apple, it's really.

[Amy Poehler]

Honestly, this should have been an HBO show.

[Bill Simmons]

I think it should be a Showtime show. I think the coke.

[Amy Poehler]

Oh, it would have been a 2012 Showtime show. You're right.

[Bill Simmons]

The coquet montage felt like pure Showtime to me, 100%.

[Rob Mahoney]

There's something about that comp, though, about like a 2012ish Showtime show into the Apple TV model. Like this, there is a broader. Like, this is solid, you know, like, this is a between 6.5 and 7.5 most weeks. Like pretty watchable, solid product that I feel like Apple is churning out on a pretty regular basis between like this presumed innocent. Even some of the stuff like Silo or Hijack. Like, there's a lot of stuff that's in that range of just like, I like watching this just fine. And am I gonna think about it a ton after it's done? Probably not, but I've had a decent enough time with it.

[Amy Poehler]

They're good at putting the one star that. I know who that star is.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah. Vince Vaughn. What has he been up to? Let's watch Bad Monkey. You know, like sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know about back. Like Apple is just always kind of here. But also then I'll get. I'll get ads for an Apple show that they're like the fourth season and I'm like. Of a show I've never heard of and don't know anyone who's watching.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes. So I starring like Eric Bana or something. It's like some big star who we really like and it's like I just had no idea this existed.

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Amy Poehler]

Do you still feel like the world exists where. Because this definitely used to be the case where each network had a specific show that felt like a show that they should have like.

[Bill Simmons]

Like for Example.

[Amy Poehler]

Showtime, like the Affair felt like a Showtime show and not an HBO show. And I have no idea why. Right. Weeds felt like a Showtime show. It would have been weird to have that on hbo. Now we have more streamers. Like Hacks really probably is a 2010 Showtime show, not an HBO show, but now it's, I guess, a Max show. I don't think it would have been an HBO show. There's some show that HBO has coming with Rachel Sennett.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

You heard about this?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

Where it's like basically Girls in Silver Lake and it's like, that's definitely an HBO show. That would be weird if it wasn't an hbo. But do you feel like there's still delineation like we used to have?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I feel like I know what an FX show is.

[Amy Poehler]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

And like, I. But there are some things where they're. Some platforms are still just throw everything at the wall, see what sticks. So there's no such thing as a Netflix show. There really is no such thing as a Netflix show.

[Amy Poehler]

They're the one that I have no handle on. And it's almost like the algorithm is creating it.

[Bill Simmons]

And then like Paramount, I understand what that is. Hbo, I understand what that is. And fx, I understand what that is. Hulu is another one where I'm like, I don't know what a Hulu show is.

[Rob Mahoney]

What is Hulu? What is FX on Hulu? I have no idea if the differentiating points between those.

[Amy Poehler]

I can't unlock Hulu for the life of me. You go there and it's like a high school shop teacher's been murdered next on a five episode documentary. It's just like true crime crossed with I'm not sure what. And then weird movies.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

So Hula's confounding.

[Bill Simmons]

They don't have an. Well, right now, the Handmaid's Tale is their identity, but they don't have like a consistent brand identity. Netflix on purpose doesn't have one, but I feel like Paramount has one, FX has one, HBO has one. And then Apple is like kind of chasing whatever hits, you know, so severance hits. And then they're sort of like, are we the sci fi. Are we the sci fi people? And so they put out a bunch of elevated sci fi that is all kind of okay, but not great. And so then the morning show hits. Are we the like glossy celebrity, first adult drama place? You know? So I think. I think they haven't figured it out. And I'm not sure they're going to because as A tech company. I think they're always like trending first, not story first necessarily kind of company. So I don't know. That's my.

[Amy Poehler]

See, I feel like they're star first.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

I feel like they want to star for the square at the top. Apple tv. And it's like, that's Reese Witherspoon. And I know who that is. There's Vince Vaughn. I know who Jon Hamm is.

[Bill Simmons]

When they, when they did. When Apple did. When Apple TV did their launch event, which they did in Silicon Valley, and they like flew up all the LA TV people to come to this event and they did it in the middle of a product launch. They did it in the middle of. Like, this is our arcade, this is our credit card and this is our tv. And here's Steven Spielberg and Oprah Winfrey and Jennifer Aniston. Like, these are. We've got all we can afford, all of the top glossiest thing. And then Ted Lasso, which wasn't even part of that, came out of nowhere. And that's the thing that made their brand something that people return to. So it's like they don't know they've got shrinking so they can put Harrison Ford out there, but, like, they don't.

[Amy Poehler]

They have presumed innocent. Jake Gyllenhaal.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. They have no sense of what to push and what not to push. At Apple, things come and go and it's baffling to me.

[Rob Mahoney]

So I thought you said the perfect word for it, Joe, which is glossy. Like it is star driven. It is shiny. There's like a certain quality of production. Like, it's clear that these shows are not cheap to make. Like they pour a lot of resources into them, but they also don't look the best all the time. It just looks professionalized and a little bit generic. I would say ultimately they churn out like a generic kind of show that again, is quite watchable, that would appeal to a wide enough range of people or at least hit a certain part of like the four quadrant demographic that Apple needs to hit. I think they're pretty good at that machine. It just feels like a machine.

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah. And we talked about the basketball parallels of a show like, like the show we're talking about today where you have. You spend the money on the two stars.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Amy Poehler]

You have to kind of cut costs, especially if it's a big cast. Whereas, like, if it's hbo, like they're every single part that they're casting, they're really putting thought and money behind.

[Rob Mahoney]

And plus you have the NBA Equivalent of like the really good player who will is willing to play on a veteran minimum for the HBO show, who will take lower than their rate to not be a star for a supporting part. And then here you get, with all due respect, Mark Tallman, it's just like this is the way it goes.

[Amy Poehler]

You know what? The one show that's different than that is morning show where they can get real stars to come in for three episodes or a little arc and they're like famous people. Ham was barely on that show last year, but he was on it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, ditto Landman. That seems to have been partially what Ham has been up to, but I.

[Amy Poehler]

Think that I fully support it. Keep getting this checks Jon Hamm.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that when you think about something like White Lotus, a show that we all like covered, and you think about how they cast that show, they're less interested in like, you know, we've got this star and more like we're gonna turn these people into stars. So like Patrick Schwarzenegger, Jason Isaacs, Parker Posey, all these people come out of. You come, you know, Amy Louis, you come out of White Lotus season with your stock way higher than when you went in, which is not the Apple model. Apple's like, is your stock high or is there a nostalgic stock for you? Because like Vince Vaughn stock is not necessarily high, but there's a nostalgia factor of people. Like, I love the Wedding Crashers. Like I, I want to, I'll watch whatever this Vince Vaughn. Oh, and Vince Vaughn gets to do exactly what Vince Vaughn can do in this show. So they're just going to feed that to me. I know that I like, I know the taste of it. I know I like it. I'll watch it. And like HBO for the most part, not always, but for the most part is trying to create stars out of their storytelling so well.

[Amy Poehler]

And the show padding, the episode padding is the other issue. Like you're talking about stuff you could excise from this show.

[Bill Simmons]

This could be a six episode season, I think easily. Right.

[Amy Poehler]

We said White Lotus probably should have been seven. Yeah, I think this could, I think you could have gotten away with seven with this, with this show. But six maybe, but seven feels about right. Then you'll see some of these Netflix shows. Like my wife and daughter were watching this Netflix show that's like number one on Netflix about the missing au pair. You. It's in another language. Yeah, it's one of those where the person's mouth is moving, but that there's.

[Bill Simmons]

You're A dub sub.

[Rob Mahoney]

Come on.

[Amy Poehler]

My family is a dub family, not a subtitle family.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, no.

[Amy Poehler]

Because. Because subtitles involve my daughter looking up for more than 40% of the show. But that was a show. I think it was like four episodes. And it seems like outside America there's more experimentation with that where it's almost like adolescence, which was.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, and that's how this all started is as you know, and I love to talk about this. We used to have 22 episode seasons that were just consistently premiering every fall. And we were kind of chasing the UK model of the six episode or ten episode season that premieres every couple years. Like that's, that's. We. We could. We stole that from the Europeans. And it's no surprise to me that they're still doing it better than we do it. You know, it's their model.

[Amy Poehler]

I feel like Friday Night Lights was one of the last ones. That first season, which I just rewatched, it's 22 episodes. It's like four seasons in a season they're doing. There's so many different things, plots, and you kind of can't believe they did it that way. It's like you just. The OC was another one, which we talked about. Or it's like you just shot your wad on four seasons of material in nine months. Nowhere to go.

[Bill Simmons]

Friday Night Lights is such an interesting case because they like did that and then their second season famously flounders and then they. And then they figure it out and they bring it back.

[Rob Mahoney]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Which is not always the case.

[Amy Poehler]

Well, the writers strike happened, which helped. People graduated and then they put some real. Thought they made shorter seasons for DirecTV.

[Bill Simmons]

We get Easter.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's the thing. They had to completely reinvent the show like mid stride because of that. And I think that's one area where, especially if you're writing like younger characters, like a high school based show, it kind of makes sense to do a one really long season and pack it all in while those actors are kind of in the zone. You need them to be. I wonder about that with your friends and neighbors too. As we're talking about, like, what plot threads are still going to be on this show? Is Tori going to be on this show? If she goes to college, Is she just going to be like off and comes back occasionally? Is she going to be pulling our attention?

[Bill Simmons]

Is she a junior or a senior?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think she's a senior. Well, she's deciding if she wants to go to Princeton. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

She's taking the sats.

[Amy Poehler]

No, she's going. She's deciding on where to go to college next year.

[Rob Mahoney]

I thought, yeah, I think it's next year.

[Bill Simmons]

She's a senior. Okay. Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

Because, I mean, if they're visiting, I think unless she's especially precocious, which I don't get the impression that she is. I think she's a senior.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Amy Poehler]

I'd like to volunteer my services for my imaginary sports movie TV consulting company. I just was really appalled by some of the 10 tennis really in this season.

[Rob Mahoney]

Not Hams. I hope. He's got a. He's got a monster for him.

[Amy Poehler]

Ham actually plays. So I was fine with Ham. But the. The prodigy. The prodigy daughter. Some of the grips on the rackets were a little suspect. I just.

[Rob Mahoney]

That should be Western. That should be continental.

[Bill Simmons]

Speaking of, I have a really important question for you, Bill. Have you checked out any of the, like, trailer footage for the Owen Wilson golf show? And will you be consulting on the golf grips on that show?

[Amy Poehler]

I have only seen the trailer. I'm obviously intrigued. This is a world that feels like it's been sitting there ever since. Tin cup for a TV show.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Rob and I were talking about whether or not to cover this, and I was like, rob, I am the world's number one tin cup enthusiast. I really want to cover.

[Amy Poehler]

Is this an audition for the rewatchables?

[Rob Mahoney]

I think it is.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, not necessarily, but I love Tin Cups. I'm a big fan.

[Amy Poehler]

No, but Tin Cup's a great example of that. Was a movie that also would have been an awesome TV show, which is the sweet spot of a sports movie where it's. I would have watched this for two hours. I would have watched it for 12. So, yeah. I also like Owen Wilson still, of course. I think that's a good example of if you're building a show around somebody, I still feel like he's got some. Some stuff in the fridge.

[Bill Simmons]

You're like, were they in Wedding Crashers? Put them on an Apple TV tile and I'll watch it.

[Rob Mahoney]

You could do worse.

[Amy Poehler]

People like that. Yeah. I thought Vince Vaughn and Nana's. I thought he was good in that. I like that movie. Did you watch on Netflix the Italian grandmothers? Susan Sarandon, Talia Shire.

[Rob Mahoney]

Come on, we gotta catch up, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow. AI definitely wrote that. AI definitely wrote.

[Amy Poehler]

It's fine.

[Bill Simmons]

Susan Sarandon and Talia Shire are Italian grandmothers.

[Amy Poehler]

She's 78 years old. Still crushing it. Susan Sarandon still got it.

[Bill Simmons]

Still got it.

[Rob Mahoney]

That was free advice for Apple. Just literally cast anyone who was In Wedding Crashers. Like, I will watch the Rachel McAdam Show. I will watch the Christopher Walken Show. I will watch, you know, the Bradley Cooper Show.

[Bill Simmons]

Whatever. I want to do Isla Fisher.

[Rob Mahoney]

Fisher, of course. Like, let's do it.

[Amy Poehler]

When do you age into. You're officially the star of Now. Like, is Jennifer Lawrence. It's still, like, two years away from. She's an Apple.

[Bill Simmons]

She's at. She's at cam with Robert Pattinson right now. I think she's got, like, 10 years before she's on an Apple.

[Rob Mahoney]

She's still a movie star.

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah, because you would have said Natalie Portman. No way. But then she was on Apple last year.

[Bill Simmons]

Is. Here she is.

[Rob Mahoney]

And there's Kate Blanchett, too. Like, I guess it's. It's not really a matter of your stardom. Maybe it is an age thing.

[Bill Simmons]

I think if once you've hit the bottom of the barrel for Wedding Crashers, should you move on to old school? Like, where do you. Where do you go if you're an Apple? Algorithm casting.

[Amy Poehler]

I don't know. Well, I. I will say they've. They've stumbled into some smart genres. Right. And they're taking a bunch of swings, spending a crazy amount of money. So the batting average is probably the. It's probably worse than we realize. When you think of all the ones that have just come and gone. Think of all the shows we haven't covered on. Even on a podcast like this.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

And Andy and Chris will sometimes do, like, the obligatory segment, but not want to keep going. But I think Apple's batting average feels a little higher. But I don't know if they're just making more shows.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, here's my question. Here's. Here's an Apple brand that I'm circling. Is Apple the platform for, like, highbrow dads? Because Paramount's. Paramount's got, like, that's the dad beat. Right? Like the. The standard dad beat. But like, Hijack and Paramount.

[Rob Mahoney]

Is that highbrow, though?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, I think it's brow, for sure. Glossier than what Taylor Sheridan is doing. The liberal dad. Like, I don't know.

[Amy Poehler]

Now, this is a good point, because your friends and Neighbors. Is this 50. Is this a 50 stage show?

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

Whereas Landman's a 50 stage show.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So it's like. But it's. But you're like, Bill, you're watching your Friends and Neighbors, and you're like, this is for me. And I agree it's for you, Bill Simmons, and I love that for you. But then, like, so what is that consumer that they're going after? The east, the west coast elite. Dad, is that who you are?

[Amy Poehler]

So there's a really interesting scene at the beginning of the eighth episode with the five women on the sauna.

[Bill Simmons]

Yes, yes, all.

[Amy Poehler]

And first of all, I actually thought that was a really good, well written, well acted scene. I was like, who are all these people? Can they be in the show more? But this whole. There's this whole world of these people. Their kids are kind of grown up and they're all hanging out with each other and they're just gossiping about everybody. And I thought that tapped into that. And then of course, we never saw those people again.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I mean they've been around. But like, I agree. I really liked this song scene a.

[Amy Poehler]

Lot because there was that party scene too that they had when Ham's kind of thrown him back. And I was like, this is. Need a little more of this.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

Which I think this is why I think season two of this show will be better because they're going to lean into all this stuff more and they're going to get rid of this stuff that doesn't work.

[Bill Simmons]

I hope so. I hope so.

[Rob Mahoney]

Maybe a full trial season, you know, we'll see. Maybe there'll be something for everybody, including.

[Bill Simmons]

Innocent crossover that we deserve. Peter Sarsgaard and his bolo tie. It's all I want.

[Rob Mahoney]

Can't wait.

[Amy Poehler]

Joanna, one of your best ideas ever and you've had some good ones.

[Rob Mahoney]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, thanks.

[Amy Poehler]

Because in the 90s when they would do the NBC crossovers, those were like unbelievable.

[Bill Simmons]

Or like when Ally McBeal is on the Practice. Yeah, absolutely.

[Amy Poehler]

That stuff works.

[Bill Simmons]

I was just thinking the other day. Do you remember that I know that you're a friend, Atlanta's watcher. Were you a Parenthood watcher, Bill?

[Amy Poehler]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Remember when Landry was on Parenthood?

[Amy Poehler]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

He showed up in a late season to record in their. The Braverman Recording Studio.

[Rob Mahoney]

Bizarre.

[Amy Poehler]

No, they stay. They stole a few Friday Night Lights people. Because MBJ was on there too.

[Bill Simmons]

No, but they stole the. They used the actors. But this was like. It wasn't just like Crucifixorius showed up on Parenthood to like.

[Amy Poehler]

I love when shows.

[Bill Simmons]

I loved it. So yeah, give us presume Dennison. Plus they shared.

[Rob Mahoney]

Who was it Shared Showrunner shared eps. Like they had some Jason Cadems. That's right. Was on both.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Amy Poehler]

The first time that ever happened. My favorite show ever. The White Shadow. The center on the White Shadow ended up on St. Elsewhere as the Janitor in the hospital.

[Rob Mahoney]

Oh, no.

[Amy Poehler]

Warren Coolidge and his basketball career had gone sideways and he was just working as a janitor. The same character, same guy. It was Gwyneth Paltrow's dad was the showrunner of both shows.

[Bill Simmons]

Bruce Paltrow.

[Amy Poehler]

He created both. Bruce Paltrow. So he created White Shadow. This was the star of White Shadow, and then ended up as a janitor on Sent Elsewhere. And it was like, you can do this. You can take a character and put them in another show. It was like fucking amazing. So anytime they do that, I think it's always exciting.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree.

[Rob Mahoney]

I want the Chicago pdfication of all of the Apple properties. You know, all of these characters can show up on any show they want. Like interview Coop as a murder suspect on the morning show. Like, I think there's lots of room here for people to cross over.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a universe breaking prospect though, because Jon Hamm's already on the morning show. How do you have. How do you double ham it? You can't.

[Rob Mahoney]

I can't do it.

[Amy Poehler]

Yeah.

[Rob Mahoney]

That's very easily. Michael B. Jordan just did it. Like any great actor can double it up.

[Amy Poehler]

Double ham is never a bad thing, I would say. Are we wrapping up?

[Bill Simmons]

We did it.

[Rob Mahoney]

Let's do it.

[Amy Poehler]

This was good. Thanks for having me. So you guys are covering the season finale. I feel like I'm higher on the show than Rob, though. That was.

[Rob Mahoney]

I think that is true.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you're higher than both of us, but that's okay.

[Rob Mahoney]

You know, I'm enjoying especially the murder mystery part. Do I have any confidence they're gonna land it in the finale? I do not, but I can't wait to be surprised. I can't wait to see what happens.

[Amy Poehler]

All right, keep your fingers crossed. Thanks to Kai for producing as well. And we'll see you next week with but the finale, you two. I'm not going to be on that one. I just want to get my takes off. Good to see you.

[Bill Simmons]

Good to see you, Bill. Bye.