← The Prestige TV Podcast
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- [00:00]
J. Kyle Mann
Folks, it's J. Kyle Mann from the Ringer. And as always, basketball is so freaking, freaking good. It's so good, in fact, that the Ringers NBA Draft show is finally back just in time for a ramp up to June. We've got you covered every week as we take an in depth look at who's got Next for the NBA's future. We'll talk the rising and falling stocks of the best and the brightest prospects in the 2025 NBA Draft class, from Cooper Flagg to Dylan Harper to BJ Edgecomb and more. Tap in with me on the Ringer NBA Draft show every Wednesday and make sure that you follow, subscribe and hit us with those five star ratings.
- [00:39]
Bill Simmons
This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever finish a movie and the next thing you know you're totally obsessed. Like I'm talking about ordering a book about 70s film lighting or buying the soundtrack on vinyl. Kind of obsessed. Whatever it is, prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com prime and follow your obsession wherever it goes.
- [01:03]
Joanna Robinson
This episode is brought to you by Focus Features An Indian paintbrush presenting the Phoenician Scheme.
- [01:08]
Bill Simmons
It's an epic comedy adventure from director Wes Anderson starring Benicio Del Toro, Mia Threpleton, Michael Cera and an all star cast.
- [01:14]
Joanna Robinson
Follow Zsa Zsa Corda as he races to survive assassinations, win back his daughter and pull off the scheme of a lifetime.
- [01:21]
Bill Simmons
The Phoenician Scheme rated PG 13. Only in theaters. It's the Prestige TV Podcast. I'm Bill Simmons. I'm with Joanna Robinson. We watched the Better Sister on Amazon, a show that we did not intend to cover.
- [01:47]
Joanna Robinson
Correct.
- [01:47]
Bill Simmons
On the Prestige TV podcast. But then I started watching over the weekend and I texted Joanne and Rob, you guys in on the show? Rob was too cool for school for it.
- [01:58]
Joanna Robinson
You know, he's a little busy right now, I think.
- [02:01]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, he's got basketball and it didn't pass the shit detector test for him. It did for me. I talked to you about what do we do, your friends and neighbors about looking down and up at the TV doing stuff on my iPad versus like looking up and following. This was perfect. I was about 50, 50 between the TV and the iPad on this one. Where were you?
- [02:23]
Joanna Robinson
I gave it a little bit more, I would say like 60, 40. And I actually it's funny that you bring up your friends and neighbors because I couldn't help but compare the two since we were just talking about like, you know, a murder mystery among the upper class. Craig Gillespie worked on both shows. There are some similarities and some of the alibis and stuff like that. So I was comparing it a lot to your friends and neighbors, and I actually, I liked this better than your friends and neighbors because I think it had a better sense. I think it had a better sense of what it is, which is like classic airplane book, you know, beach read fodder and is not trying to be capital P prestige, but it's just trying to give you like a good murder mystery with a ton of great actors. This is another thing, like when we were talking about Apple shows and you were talking about this imbalance between the star power and then invest in the star power and then not in the rest of the cast. This is like a fully fleshed out, everyone's delivering cast kind of show. I had a great time with it. I'm really glad that you had a.
- [03:29]
Bill Simmons
Great time with it.
- [03:30]
Joanna Robinson
I did.
- [03:30]
Bill Simmons
I had a very good time. I wouldn't say it was a great time, but it was a very good time.
- [03:33]
Joanna Robinson
No, I mean, like, it's definitely not the best show I've seen this year, but I just like, I like when a show knows exactly what it is and is working on that level, like, very perfectly. Does that make sense?
- [03:41]
Bill Simmons
I thought it was an HBO show after a head injury. Like, not quite good enough to be on Sunday night hbo, but like one.
- [03:50]
Joanna Robinson
Level below on Amazon prime for the summer and a binge drop. It's perfect for what it is.
- [03:56]
Bill Simmons
It's funny you mentioned your friends and neighbors because both shows started out the exact same way with a dead body covered in blood and the hero of our show not understanding what's going on and freaking out. Basically. It was and identical. And it's so funny that Craig Gillespie did both shows.
- [04:12]
Joanna Robinson
Are you, were you waiting for Jessica Biel to fall into the pool or something like that?
- [04:16]
Bill Simmons
Well, her dress was covered in blood at one point.
- [04:18]
Joanna Robinson
It looked great. It looked great.
- [04:19]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, they did a great job. It just seemed like somebody shot like a, a hose of blood at her. Yeah, I, I just feel like everyone's worried about AI coming in and replacing the creative for some of the. And it's like, I, I, we're not exactly the most original right now in 2025 anyway, where a lot of these shows just, they have to establish the dead body. Then it's like, I wonder who did it. Then there's all these other pieces and then the show moves and then it's like, I think it's this person. No, it's this person. And we just keep going and going, and it just feels like we're on autopilot with this concept at this point. I still like it.
- [04:55]
Joanna Robinson
You're expanding a Law and Order episode out across eight episodes.
- [05:00]
Bill Simmons
Oh, that's a good way to put it. With better actors.
- [05:02]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, with better actors. But you still gotta be like, wait, was it the doorman? You know what I mean? That's like a classic Law and Order swerve. But I think that you also, when. When you were texting Robin me about it, you brought up Presumed Innocent. Like, where does it stack up against Presumed Innocent for you?
- [05:17]
Bill Simmons
I thought it was. I think these are all around the same.
- [05:20]
Joanna Robinson
Okay.
- [05:21]
Bill Simmons
From a. From a quality level, Presumed Innocent was fun because. Because of Jake Gyllenhaal was. It's just a bigger star than, you know, anyone in your Friends and Neighbors or Better Sister. Um, so that part was fun, but that Presumed Innocent also had a lot of issues. I mean. Oh, you know, his marriage and the chemistry he had with the actress who played us with that. That was way off the kids. The ending of it was really stupid.
- [05:47]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. This didn't have a stupid ending. I thought. This didn't have an annoying kid. I liked the teen kid that they got.
- [05:53]
Bill Simmons
He was good.
- [05:54]
Joanna Robinson
This didn't have a character. I'm like, oh, I can't believe I'm spending more time with this person. And I would say Presumed Innocent, I think, had higher highs. To your point. Jake Gyllenhaal, Rob, and I love Peter Sarsgaard so much on that show. You know, like, there were, like, really higher highs, but it was trying to be very arty. The ending was so stupid. And Presumed Innocent, the, like, swerve that they made off of the book and stuff like that. This, again, is just, like, not trying to be sophisticated. It's just trying to be, you know, a ham and cheese sandwich. And it's like a really good ham and cheese sandwich.
- [06:27]
Bill Simmons
I was ready for a ham and cheese sandwich. We're going to do spoilers much later, so I'm going to keep the first half we can talk big picture, and then second half we can go into.
- [06:36]
Joanna Robinson
Sounds good.
- [06:36]
Bill Simmons
Some of this stuff. But it does feel like we have a playbook for these shows at this point. Dead body. Our hero couldn't have done it.
- [06:46]
Joanna Robinson
Wait, did she.
- [06:48]
Bill Simmons
Could. Could he or she have done it?
- [06:51]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [06:51]
Bill Simmons
Was it this person?
- [06:53]
Joanna Robinson
Oh.
- [06:54]
Bill Simmons
Oh, this character. The quirky, kind of crazy sidekick character. Huh? What's going on with them in this case? Matthew Modine. Ah, there's a cop who doesn't have a lot to work with, but is really playing up some. Some sort of personality trait and just going for it on that end. Oh, there's a little. Another sidekick in this case. Elizabeth Banks, who's the. The other sister is kind of. Is kind of the Sarsgaard in this one where just, like, the actor who has the most kind of stuff to do.
- [07:26]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [07:27]
Bill Simmons
Jessica Biel is handicapped with the. I have to be the prim, pristine, rich, wealthy wife who's just looking like this half the time. But Elizabeth Banks, the part is way more fun. Don't you agree?
- [07:41]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. And something I love about. About a show like this is they obviously, like, cast the show and then they did rewrites to get specific with, like, the way in which some of the actors look like they kept making fun of that one cop for, like, when he shaved off his mustache and all this other stuff. And then with Jessica Biel, at one point, someone describes her as having, like, gymnast arms, you know, because her arms are incredible. But, like, you're also just, like, looking at them half the time because they're so dazzling. But, yeah. Yeah, Jessica Biel has a very. But. But she was way better than I expected her to be. I'll be honest with you. Like, I. I don't have high expectations for Jessica Biel, and she doesn't have a ton of variation. She has to play. But there's, like, you know, when things. When everything unravels at the end. Again, we're not getting into spoilers. There's some jags that I, like, bought. I. You know, I was. I was like, I'm convinced by what's going on here.
- [08:31]
Bill Simmons
I watched the first four episodes with my wife, and she said multiple times, was just admiring how toned and awesome Jessica B. Like, oh, man. Great arms. Wow, her butt looks awesome.
- [08:43]
Joanna Robinson
Oh, yeah. The whole thing. Yeah.
- [08:45]
Bill Simmons
Like, just like, wow. She really put in the time.
- [08:47]
Joanna Robinson
Pilates poster girl. Jessica Bale looks incredible.
- [08:50]
Bill Simmons
It was like being at the NFL draft combine, watching somebody admire, like, an offensive lineman. But, yeah, I listen, I didn't have a lot of high hopes for her either, as you know. And it is interesting to think of as you rise up the ladder of caliber of actresses, like, if Kate Winslet is in this part, or we go. We go, like, up there. We go, Cate Blanchett, like, five years ago. Or we go to that level. What else did they have? What more could they have brought to the table? And I'm not sure that was the point of the part.
- [09:21]
Joanna Robinson
I don't want it. I don't want that. Because, again, that's trying to be better than this show actually is, you know?
- [09:25]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [09:26]
Joanna Robinson
Like, the only person here, I think, who is, like, possibly a little too good for the show, what the show actually is, is Elizabeth Banks. But, like, since she got her start in comedy, she's like a comedy actress in a lot of aspects inside of this drama. And so that all works really well for me, I think. You know, you mentioned Cate Blanchett or Cate Winslet. You know, we have to think of the Kate's, the various Kates. Mare of Eastown. This is. That's the HBO version of this without a head injury. Right. Like, that's what that is.
- [09:56]
Bill Simmons
And that was a really good show.
- [09:57]
Joanna Robinson
Great show. Perfect show. Disclaimer. Cate Blanchett, disaster of a show. And that's another sort of, like, mystery Apple. What are we doing here? We're trying to be something really arty and sophisticated. But that show was also based on, like, this show is on. Based on a beach read book. If you're gonna adapt a beach read book, just do that's. That's the level that we need from that every time. So, yeah, yeah, she.
- [10:23]
Bill Simmons
You have to look good. I have to believe you were a high society wife who also was running a magazine. You only need to do basically three different acting things. You need to be, like, kind of aggro. You need to be just completely stunned or you need to cry.
- [10:39]
Joanna Robinson
Also, you need the haircut, which she and Leslie Bibb, both multiple haircuts. Right.
- [10:45]
Bill Simmons
You need, like, you need to go backwards. And then Elizabeth Banks, who. I think I thought she dialed it up the first couple episodes and then gradually came down to where it needed to be. There was definitely some send this scene to the Emmy reel kind of acting coming from her. Like, really, really. It was like, all right, okay. All right, Elizabeth, maybe one more take. But she was really going for it. And I think she could smell the Emmys from the moment she shows up in this thing. She's out of control.
- [11:16]
Joanna Robinson
The character's just like a hot mess express. Like, that's the character description. And hot mess express with a heart of gold is, you know, is what we're dealing with here. And I think she. She really delivered on that. And I think. I think the contra. Like, I think it's really good casting. Beale and Banks are really believable sisters to me. There's, like, something in them that feels sisterly, but it's just sort of like the road not taken Elizabeth Banks is the older sister who has a long history of, you know, abusing drugs and alcohol, et cetera. So that's like hot mess express. And then Jessica Biel is like, the version who just, like, always did everything right. The Better Sister. You know, to. To your point.
- [11:55]
Bill Simmons
And good title. I gotta say that one of the best things about this show. Good title, good title, made sense. Immediately. I was like, I get this. I. I know who the better sister is. I know who the worst sister is.
- [12:04]
Joanna Robinson
Well, I mean, or. Or, like, it was one of challenging. Or do you. And I think, like, Lorraine Toussaint, who plays Catherine, the sort of, like, you know, Jessica Biel's boss, she, later in the. In the season says something about, like, oh, it's like a Danielle Steele novel, isn't it? The two Sisters. Blah, blah. Exactly. Like, it's juicy, it's soapy, it's like. It's trashy in a really fun way. Great.
- [12:29]
Bill Simmons
It is. I've made this point many times before on this podcast. And on my podcast, I've always felt like sisters are the underrated piece of turf for TVs and movies. The dynamic of sisters and all the baggage that comes with it is so fat. And this show did a good job, especially in the early episodes, because nobody can be meaner than two sisters to one another. It's the highest, meanest level two human beings can get.
- [12:58]
Joanna Robinson
It's pretty tough.
- [12:59]
Bill Simmons
But there's also this, like, love and affection and that. There's just all this stuff that makes really compelling tv. And obviously, I'm an only child. I only know the sisters, like, on my dad's side of the family, because my dad had two sisters that were really, really close. So I saw that. I saw the happy version of it, but this version of it was really cool. And then you bring in, like, wait, they were both with our guy, Corey Stoll.
- [13:24]
Joanna Robinson
Corey Stoll, Perfect.
- [13:26]
Bill Simmons
Corey.
- [13:26]
Joanna Robinson
Perfect.
- [13:27]
Bill Simmons
Available.
- [13:28]
Joanna Robinson
Oh, he's booked. He's busy. Poor man's Peter Sarsgaard is here. And just, like, really perfect casting for this role. Like, really just, like, he's had a nice run.
- [13:38]
Bill Simmons
His IMDb is swollen for the last 15 years.
- [13:43]
Joanna Robinson
No one does, like, smug asshole better than Corey Stahl. Genuinely, really, really huge fan of his.
- [13:48]
Bill Simmons
So, yeah, when. When his character. When we learn again, I'll. I'll give the official. We'll go to a break and we'll be like, all right, it's time for spoilers. When we learn one thing about his character, it's like, of course.
- [13:58]
Joanna Robinson
Of course.
- [13:59]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, obviously, of course he's doing that. So you mentioned how this. This show from the Apple, where the apple just has the two stars and then basically tries to get lucky with everybody else. But this star. This show had Corey Stoll and Kim Dickens, who I thought was really good as the police sergeant or cop, whatever she was.
- [14:19]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, the detective. The detective storyline is anchored by Kim Dickens. Matthew Modine is anchoring this, like, shadowy legal case side of the story.
- [14:29]
Bill Simmons
Lorraine, it's great to see him. I love Matthew Modine. I'm not positive what he's going for in this show, but I think it's just gay.
- [14:36]
Joanna Robinson
He's like, my character's gay, so I'll wear a lot of ascots.
- [14:38]
Bill Simmons
Seem to be the ascots. And, like, he changed his voice.
- [14:43]
Joanna Robinson
Exactly.
- [14:43]
Bill Simmons
He had a voice like, a little like this. Yeah. And I was like, all right, you've made some choices.
- [14:48]
Joanna Robinson
Those are. Those are the swings that Matthew Modine decided to take. Lorraine Toussaint is, like, anchoring the. The media mogul side of, like, every storyline has an actor that I want to spend time with.
- [14:59]
Bill Simmons
I don't know if I love Lorraine, but it was an interesting performance. She was also. I thought she was really going for it. There was that mushroom scene where I.
- [15:07]
Joanna Robinson
Was like, you didn't like, wow, you're.
- [15:09]
Bill Simmons
You're. You're going hard here.
- [15:10]
Joanna Robinson
I love the mushroom scene. And Gloria Rubin, like, you know, as we are in our ER celebration era after the pit, Gloria Rubin's here and to be the defense attorney.
- [15:20]
Bill Simmons
So that delighted me.
- [15:21]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [15:22]
Bill Simmons
Was great to see her. It's hard every time these ER characters pop up back into our lives now. You know, I'm obviously a little older than some of the people listening to this, but ER was such, like, a huge, massive show and you had such an attachment to so many of the people on there. And I always root for them whenever I see them in anything else. So with her, I was like, oh, exactly. Look at you. And maybe you have a little bit of history with our guy Jake. Who knows? There's. Let's get a little flirty.
- [15:49]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. And a little nasty. It's pretty great.
- [15:52]
Bill Simmons
One other thing with Elizabeth Banks, felt like she did a no makeup decision for the first couple episodes to add to the hot mess express. Did you notice that?
- [16:03]
Joanna Robinson
To me, more than anything, it was the. The bad blonde dye job.
- [16:09]
Bill Simmons
This is something that, like, she really dumbed the look down in a bunch of ways.
- [16:14]
Joanna Robinson
The, like, trying to disguise her inherent hotness. The. Over on the. On the Netflix show Sirens Megan Fahey, who we loved in White Lotus Season 2, plays a similar hot mess express sister and has like the exact same peroxide digest. Like, this is the classic my sister's a mess, her roots are grown out dye job look on these women in an attempt to disguise their absolute smoking hot.
- [16:39]
Bill Simmons
I like how you brought up Sirens like there was no chance. I didn't watch all five episodes.
- [16:44]
Joanna Robinson
Did you enjoy Sirens?
- [16:45]
Bill Simmons
Not really.
- [16:46]
Joanna Robinson
No, I didn't.
- [16:47]
Bill Simmons
That was one. That was. That was the one. I took one for the team, for my wife because there's been a lot of NBA playoffs on my house. So she's siren. She's like all in. First day. I didn't think it was very good.
- [16:58]
Joanna Robinson
I hated sirens, man.
- [17:00]
Bill Simmons
So I didn't really understand what the point of it was. And I also thought the lead, like the femme fatale, the Megan Fahey's sister, I just didn't think was good. I didn't buy the character. And that show kind of hinged on her being incredible and she wasn't.
- [17:15]
Joanna Robinson
She was really good on House of the Dragon. She's gonna be Supergirl. Like, she's great, but like, not in that role. And that whole thing was just. It's not what I would want from Julianne Moore. It's not what I want from Kevin Bacon. It's not what I want from anyone. And I think that's just like, again, a bad version of what this show does really well. Like that, you know, that's like a ham and cheese sandwich, but like it's all cheese, no ham.
- [17:35]
Bill Simmons
You know what's great about that show though? It did check some boxes. It had an awesome, awesome house.
- [17:40]
Joanna Robinson
Oh, yeah.
- [17:41]
Bill Simmons
And some weird island that I didn't know anything about. So I'm like, episode two, it's just on. I'm just googling the island. I'm like, what's going on here? How far is it from New York city? There's a 40 minute deep dive on this place I didn't know existed.
- [17:54]
Joanna Robinson
Is watching TV like being on Zillow for you.
- [17:59]
Bill Simmons
Zillow, Google. Yeah, it's just. It's a way station for me to just look stuff up or look up stuff on ebay.
- [18:05]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [18:06]
Bill Simmons
But that show was, I thought, pretty bad. I thought that I would give that show we were doing a grade system. Yeah, that's like a D for me.
- [18:15]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. What is this?
- [18:16]
Bill Simmons
I thought this was like a B or a B plus.
- [18:18]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, B plus. B plus.
- [18:19]
Bill Simmons
Somewhere in there, depending on what you wanted. It had the same issues. Some of These other shows have. It probably should have been six episodes. They stretched it.
- [18:26]
Joanna Robinson
It should have been six episodes. Can I take you behind the curtain of what happened this weekend of me watching the show?
- [18:32]
Bill Simmons
No, go ahead.
- [18:32]
Joanna Robinson
You texted us. I had not seen it. Rob had not seen it.
- [18:36]
Bill Simmons
Oh. So I got you excited.
- [18:38]
Joanna Robinson
I went out to lunch with my cousin who had watched the first three episodes, and I was like, all right, tell me what the show is. What's happening on the show? And she recapped the first three episodes for me. And then it was just really fun to sit there with her and try to put out all my guesses as to who did it. Having not seen a single second of the show, I was just like, let me try to guess. And obviously I guessed correctly. I mean, I did a bunch of guesses, but one of them was correct. Throw enough darts to the wall, you'll hit the bullseye. But. But it was funny to, like, hear the recap. And I was like, oh, okay, this is. This is. I know exactly what this show is. And that sort of prepped me for the right expectations going in, which I think is why I had such a good time with it.
- [19:18]
Bill Simmons
I think you just came up with like a 15 minute prestige TV podc.
- [19:23]
Joanna Robinson
Guess who did it.
- [19:24]
Bill Simmons
Our show is coming out and we just look at the IMDb and watch the trailer and try to guess exactly what happened.
- [19:30]
Joanna Robinson
I love it.
- [19:30]
Bill Simmons
Everybody gets, like a four minute. Here's what I think. And then it just goes. And then that's it. And whoever wins wins, like, a booby prize.
- [19:37]
Joanna Robinson
I love it.
- [19:38]
Bill Simmons
Let's see. What's the next one we could do for that?
- [19:40]
Joanna Robinson
I don't know. That's a good question.
- [19:41]
Bill Simmons
That wouldn't work for, like, the bear. It has to be, like one of.
- [19:44]
Joanna Robinson
These, like a new one off. Starry kind of show.
- [19:48]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Where it's like. Like a summer book with some sort of crime.
- [19:52]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [19:52]
Bill Simmons
Something gets solved, somebody's a detective, and then you just kind of guess what happens. Let me tell you something, Apple, Amazon or Netflix will have a show for us in the next two months. It's just a border, especially during the summer.
- [20:04]
Joanna Robinson
Summer? Yeah.
- [20:05]
Bill Simmons
Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard, Malibu, Hampton. Somebody's getting murdered. A lot of suspects. Let's go.
- [20:10]
Joanna Robinson
We're all chasing Big Little Lies. And this is not a Big Little Lies is an A show. At least the first season is, I.
- [20:16]
Bill Simmons
Would say, A plus.
- [20:17]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [20:18]
Bill Simmons
First, that's like everything I want from one of these shows.
- [20:20]
Joanna Robinson
Exactly. And then. Yeah, this is like the B version of a big little lies and.
- [20:26]
Bill Simmons
Well, that's interesting you mentioned that about. Because that's the Jessica Biel. That would have been the highest version of the Jessica Biel character was Nicole Kidman like 10 years ago as running a magazine and like, wow, she's doing this show. That's amazing.
- [20:40]
Joanna Robinson
This isn't a spoiler. I think it's just like the gimmick of a gimmick of the show. Are these like ghost. You get a lot of flashback stuff, but you also get like strange like sort of ghost conversations. How did you feel about that as like a device?
- [20:53]
Bill Simmons
Didn't just felt like padding. I thought as again, this was a six episode show.
- [20:58]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [20:59]
Bill Simmons
And they had to throw in some gimmicks and some red herrings to just stretch it. Stretch two more hours out of. Out of whatever was happening.
- [21:06]
Joanna Robinson
Our two main ghosts, we should say are like. Is their dad. You know, the two girls had this abusive dad. So like that character is a. Is a ghost who pops up and they have conversations with and then Corey Stahl, who is the murder victim, you know, in the first minute of the show. So that's not a spoiler. So like dead husband, dead dad, and then conversations with the living. But it's not really a supposed to be a ghost thing. It's almost like a memory therapy thing.
- [21:33]
Bill Simmons
And didn't love it.
- [21:34]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. Okay.
- [21:35]
Bill Simmons
I also, I like Corey Stoll as an actor. I actually thought he was a little too likable in the first two episodes. So when we have a little bit of a turn as it keeps going, I didn't feel like he. I didn't know if I believed the dark side for him.
- [21:53]
Joanna Robinson
I think for me, I'm always suspicious of Cory.
- [21:57]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Okay, maybe I just like him more.
- [21:59]
Joanna Robinson
I like him a lot. But I think he always plays characters and I'm like, I don't trust you at all. So.
- [22:06]
Bill Simmons
All right, well, we'll take a. Let's take a. So let's take a break. So if you're listening to this and you haven't watched the show yet, feel free to turn it off because we're gonna hit some spoilers. Cause I have some questions about what we watch with this show.
- [22:21]
Joanna Robinson
Okay.
- [22:23]
Bill Simmons
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- [24:24]
Joanna Robinson
No. How long does it take to drive from Cleveland to the Hamptons?
- [24:26]
Bill Simmons
Eight hour and fifty minute drive. It's 556 miles. But now you got to work in the Hampton traffic. So it's probably 10, 11, I'm going.
- [24:35]
Joanna Robinson
To say for one way depending on time of day. Right. For the Hamptons traffic.
- [24:39]
Bill Simmons
Right. But she gets, she gets word about. She gets word.
- [24:46]
Joanna Robinson
So we should say. Should we say?
- [24:47]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, let's go. We start spoiling it.
- [24:49]
Joanna Robinson
Eliza Things did it.
- [24:51]
Bill Simmons
Elizabeth Banks did it and it hinges on she couldn't have done it. She's in Cleveland.
- [24:56]
Joanna Robinson
Okay, spoilers not just for this show, but I'm just about to spoil the reveal of the murder mystery for your friends and neighbors, which wasn't even, like, 5% of the plot of that show. But I am gonna reveal it right now. This is the second show in a row where the cell phone pinging the tower was the alibi that proved to not be true. And this is exactly what happened. I was at lunch with my cousin. She's like. I was like, do you think Elizabeth Banks did it? She said she couldn't have her cell phone pinged in Cleveland. I was like, they tried to get me with that. In your Friends and neighbors.
- [25:23]
Bill Simmons
Cell phone ping doesn't work. Just leave that cell phone.
- [25:26]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, exactly. Moratorium on cell phone pinging as the.
- [25:28]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, let's take like a year. Yeah, like a year hiatus.
- [25:31]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [25:32]
Bill Simmons
Well, they show the phone suspiciously in the first episode, and it's cracked smash.
- [25:38]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [25:38]
Bill Simmons
And they show it. And when you see it in the first episode, you think, oh, they're doing this to show that this lady is like, does not have a lot of money. She can't even fix her broken iPhone screen.
- [25:49]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [25:50]
Bill Simmons
But that's not why they showed it. They showed it for the callback at the end of the season where it's like, ah, Remember that phone with the smash screen? Yeah. She left it in Cleveland.
- [25:57]
Joanna Robinson
That's B plus material, baby.
- [25:59]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, it was pretty good. I was impressed.
- [26:01]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [26:02]
Bill Simmons
So she zoomed down there. Now I'm going to. I'm going to start picking it immediately here.
- [26:08]
Joanna Robinson
Okay.
- [26:08]
Bill Simmons
She zooms down there, kills the guy. Her. Her DNA is not on him. They never think to.
- [26:16]
Joanna Robinson
Well, it is, but they don't.
- [26:18]
Bill Simmons
But they never think that. They don't. They never think to test her, and they just blindly accept, oh, her. Her phone pinged in Cleveland. Cross her off. She had, like, an incredible motive, and she was a hot mess express. Not only that, no way she did it.
- [26:31]
Joanna Robinson
But when the. Like, when later they're investigating the doorman and his alibi doesn't check out because they interviewed the bartender. I was like, why did nobody ask the bar, you know, if his alibi was like, I was at the bar watching the game. And they're like, okay, sounds good. And nobody checks it. And then later. And then later, they asked the bartender. They're like, well, it turns out you left the bar. And I was like, why did nobody, you know, was. Was is the answer that they got so distracted and enamored by the teen son as a suspect that they just sort of dropped everything else.
- [27:02]
Bill Simmons
Who else wasn't a great suspect? The teen son?
- [27:06]
Joanna Robinson
Like, as far as, like, the show was concerned or as Far as. Like, the cops should not have suspected the teen son.
- [27:12]
Bill Simmons
What was his motive? Why the teen son? So the reason that he starts going down this road is cause he feels like he's covering up for his mom, which I actually like. That wrinkle.
- [27:22]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [27:23]
Bill Simmons
I thought I was like, that's good. That's a good son. Brings a gun to school. Why did he bring a gun to school? Because he was worried one of his parents would kill the other with it. Do you have to bring it to school? Probably not. Maybe you could hide in the backyard and have the same effect. Just putting that out. You have a pretty big house. Probably put that gun somewhere. That's right. To bring it to school. Which is an automatic. You're getting expelled. But I just feel like the flaw of this show fundamentally is that Elizabeth Banks should have been a much bigger suspect.
- [27:57]
Joanna Robinson
Of course.
- [27:58]
Bill Simmons
And they should have really checked that out and been like, well, wait a second. Plus, we have cameras everywhere now. And I find it hard to believe first in this.
- [28:06]
Joanna Robinson
You don't think she has Jon Hamm's WI FI remote from your friends and neighbors where she could just.
- [28:10]
Bill Simmons
This is another thing. I don't feel like this exists. But they have this expensive house. They have no ring camera.
- [28:15]
Joanna Robinson
Right, Exactly.
- [28:15]
Bill Simmons
There's none of the neighbors have a camera that shows the street. Like, this is very 2005 how they're doing.
- [28:22]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. We live in a surveillance state. You can't get away with murder anymore.
- [28:25]
Bill Simmons
No.
- [28:26]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [28:27]
Bill Simmons
Listen, I kick myself every day I missed my chance to murder people.
- [28:32]
Joanna Robinson
Oh, the 90s. What a time.
- [28:34]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, it was a great time. The seventies were the heyday. You could just get in a van and pick up hitchhikers. Nobody knew what was going on. Now it's like your cameras everywhere.
- [28:42]
Joanna Robinson
What could have been for you, Bill? What could. Different career entirely.
- [28:45]
Bill Simmons
Those 70s killers really had it going. So the son. I just feel like. I don't know. I didn't. Never believed in the motive. And he didn't seem like a killer to me.
- [28:57]
Joanna Robinson
But did you. Do you agree with me that he was, like, not an annoying teen?
- [29:02]
Bill Simmons
He was good. I thought he was good actor.
- [29:03]
Joanna Robinson
I thought he was really good. I thought all the jail stuff with him was really good. I think that. And I wonder when they arrest him. I was like, oh, this feels like a kickback of the series of murder shows we've seen recently where the teen kid did it. And they're like, we're gonna arrest the teen kid first. And that's gonna be. And you know, that's not who did it. Because if they arrest him first, there's always a chance for the double twist and you come back around and it was the kid. But no, he was like a gentle giant. This whole. Who had a night costume under his bed. What a sweetie. Come on. House of R. But yeah, it's the teen son always.
- [29:40]
Bill Simmons
Like, if. If I'm murdered, my teen son would be a suspect immediately. Just because that's how it goes, apparently. But the answer to be would be Sean fantasy killed me to take over the rewatchables.
- [29:51]
Joanna Robinson
Oh, is that. Is that.
- [29:51]
Bill Simmons
But they would figure that in episode eight. Yeah.
- [29:54]
Joanna Robinson
I don't know. Sean feels the kind of person who might get away with murder.
- [29:58]
Bill Simmons
That's a good point. Yeah. We never have. We never have a season finale. No, it's just the season finale is just Sean doing like a Wes Anderson month and I'm just dead.
- [30:09]
Joanna Robinson
That's how you'll know. That's how you know Sean did it if he celebrates with Wes Anderson month on the rewatch.
- [30:14]
Bill Simmons
What is. Wait, getting away from the spoilers for a second? You say you're Jessica Biel. I was kind of surprised. I didn't know she had this in her. So you were very pro Elizabeth Banks before this?
- [30:27]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. In general. Are you not pro Elizabeth Banks?
- [30:32]
Bill Simmons
I really liked her in the 2000s in some of the stuff she was doing early on. And I thought. I really thought there was a chance for, like, a Reese Witherspoon kind of run for her. Like, she, like, she's in this Mark Wahlberg sports movie called Invincible, and she's really good as the. As like the girlfriend. And it's like one of those, like, classic shitty sports movie parts where the girl, it's like, it's the love interest and there's like, nothing there, but she's awesome in it. And I remember after that thinking, like, oh, this'll just be. She'll move into that Reese Witherspoon, Sandra Bulgue thing. And in some ways it happened. In other ways it didn't. But she also did a lot more stuff behind the scenes.
- [31:12]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [31:13]
Bill Simmons
In a weird way, had more success. Like a producer director. Yeah.
- [31:17]
Joanna Robinson
Like, her Pitch Perfect run, she's forever iconically a Hunger Games character. So she will forever be the Hunger.
- [31:25]
Bill Simmons
Games was the big thing for her.
- [31:26]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. She will forever be someone for generations because of the. Her involvement in Hunger Games. Pitch Perfect is a huge thing for her. And I think that, like, yeah, she did not become the a lister leading woman in front of the camera that I think, you know, maybe some of her earliest stuff promised almost there. But I think. I think she carved a really interesting path for herself.
- [31:48]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [31:49]
Joanna Robinson
And I'm never unhappy to see her.
- [31:51]
Bill Simmons
I think that what she earned with Better Sister now is she now has a five, six year Runway for those big little lies type shows.
- [31:59]
Joanna Robinson
Oh, move over.
- [32:01]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, she's like, it's like sports. There's some people aging out of the demo. And now she's like, I'm moving right in as like, my son's in college and now I'm. I'm drinking too much and blah, blah, blah. No, my husband's dead. She's. She can have two of those.
- [32:16]
Joanna Robinson
Here's my. Here's my nit to pick. You know, you're on Zillow. Watch. When you're watching these shows I'm usually on. How old is this person? Actually watch that's like, oh, I'm on that watch too.
- [32:26]
Bill Simmons
I'm on five watches.
- [32:27]
Joanna Robinson
Okay, you're. You, You. Continue multitudes. Janelle Maloney from the West Wing plays the mom of Jessica Biel, Elizabeth Banks.
- [32:35]
Bill Simmons
Wow.
- [32:36]
Joanna Robinson
She is 12. 10 to 12 years older than them. And I just wanted to put that out there in the world.
- [32:44]
Bill Simmons
Interesting. Well, so how old was Gloria Rubins?
- [32:48]
Joanna Robinson
Gloria Rubin is Gloria Rubin.
- [32:51]
Bill Simmons
Sorry.
- [32:51]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. Gloria Rubinson. Rubin is 60. Looks phenomenal.
- [32:56]
Bill Simmons
And that guy Jake, that pretty clear they had some sort of history. Yeah, I'm going to say he's like late 30s, 38.
- [33:05]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [33:06]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Jake.
- [33:09]
Joanna Robinson
You know, up and down the Hamptons, I guess.
- [33:11]
Bill Simmons
All over the place.
- [33:12]
Joanna Robinson
Up and down the Hamptons.
- [33:14]
Bill Simmons
I have more nitpicks. Okay, so this is probably a me problem and not a show problem, but it does get a little complicated and like with this whole plot with framing and framing Matthew Modine's character, and we have the. And there's a shadow thing. And then Jake's dead at the end. And there's a lot going on in that final episode that if you're not paying full attention, you almost have to go backwards. Like, all right, I gotta watch this 30 minutes again. Because they just unleashed nine things at me here. And. And I think that's okay. That might be a me problem. But what did you think?
- [33:52]
Joanna Robinson
Well, yeah, that's usually. I think it's just the fact that it's the opposite of the usual final episode of the show. The final episode of the show. Of these kinds of show. Usually you find out who did it. You've usually already figured it out who did it, so you're quite bored by the reveal. Or it's such a stupid twist, like presumed it is.
- [34:09]
Bill Simmons
Right. So they throw in three more things.
- [34:11]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. So this has like. Like, yeah, it's. We find out who done it at the. Basically the end of the previous episode into the very beginning of the. Of the final episode. And so it's not the question at the end of the show is not who done it. It's like, is she gonna get away with it? Which I don't know about you, but I was rooting for her to get away with it. You know, she's like, starting this new romance with this guy she met. Aa. Always a great idea. You know, she's got a relationship with her. Yeah. What could possibly go wrong? She's got this relationship with her kid. Like, I was like, I want Elizabeth Banks to thrive, you know, after this. I want her to get away with it. So how are they going to figure this out? And it involves shittily, I guess, exposing Kim Dickens character. And also it's like a double, you know, scheme they have.
- [35:01]
Bill Simmons
The Kim Dickens thing came pretty late.
- [35:04]
Joanna Robinson
The. Her anger management stuff and all of.
- [35:07]
Bill Simmons
That felt like that got thrown in.
- [35:08]
Joanna Robinson
You should have seeded that earlier. I agree. I would agree with that.
- [35:11]
Bill Simmons
I would have seen. I would have liked to have seen a flash of it too.
- [35:13]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. Yeah.
- [35:14]
Bill Simmons
Like the first couple episodes.
- [35:15]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. But Kim Dickens is doing in this episode, in this show what. You know, there's that, like, hardboiled detective character and your friends and neighbors that Rob and I were both like, oh, brother. Kim Dickens is like, let me show you how it's done. This is how you do it.
- [35:28]
Bill Simmons
Totally.
- [35:28]
Joanna Robinson
So totally. Yeah.
- [35:30]
Bill Simmons
I actually. She had a couple really good acting moments in that, like she tells that story about when she was ahead of her, ahead of the other cops and caught the suspect, but it was a bad idea. And she was. It's pretty solid.
- [35:41]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah. Yeah.
- [35:43]
Bill Simmons
So they throw in this thing at the end where Jake's dead.
- [35:47]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [35:49]
Bill Simmons
And it feels like the only reason they did that was to set up. Amazon might pick us up for season two. We need like some sort of hook. Because otherwise.
- [35:57]
Joanna Robinson
Bill, that didn't occur to me. I hate that idea. Yeah.
- [35:59]
Bill Simmons
That was a cynical person. Otherwise it made no sense. Why was he dead? Who killed him? It was. He. He make some illusion at some point too. If they find out that I'm a dead man. But they don't follow it up really. And it just feels very season two. Ish.
- [36:16]
Joanna Robinson
Well, you're. You're really right. It would be a terrible idea to Be clear, Amazon, if you're listening, don't do this. It didn't work for big little lies. It won't work for you. But yeah, there's that and there's also the f. The like rogue FBI agent and all that stuff. Jessica Biel, in her wrapping up of everything, she's going to frame Matthew Modine, but she's also like calling in a complaint against the FBI agent. Sort of. I was wondering if they were going to try to frame him for something, but sort of. So, like, there's. There's. That thread is sort of open a bit. And then isn't the implication, though, that Matthew Modine had Jake killed because he's on the phone with the gentry group goons, whoever they are, and is like, gentry group evil.
- [37:03]
Bill Simmons
Just an evil group. I don't even know what they do.
- [37:06]
Joanna Robinson
They're just evil slave labor. Human trafficking to build.
- [37:10]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Human trafficker. But they're called the gentry group. It sounds like a law firm, but.
- [37:15]
Joanna Robinson
He'S like, jake's no longer a problem. And then, and then, and then Jessica Biel's character, like, hears something in the house and goes outside with her gun. And then nothing comes of that. I don't know. So, yeah, you're always right about this stuff.
- [37:30]
Bill Simmons
Matthew Modine was like. He pulled his ascot. He's like, cheek is no longer a problem. His. His ascot game. First of all, who knew ascots were still a thing in 2025?
- [37:42]
Joanna Robinson
They're not.
- [37:43]
Bill Simmons
It's really modeen. Yeah. Modine was trying to bring it back.
- [37:46]
Joanna Robinson
He. At one point, he. His ascot affliction is so severe that at one point he's wearing an ascot with like a tight polo shirt. Like, you know, and this is when you wear an ascot with like a button down or whatever, but he's. Or like a sweater, but he's wearing it with a. With an over a tight polo. And I was like, happy Pride Month, Matthew Modine, I guess. Here you are.
- [38:06]
Bill Simmons
So I think he saw an episode of Scooby Doo and was like, you know, Fred's ascot. I don't. I think that maybe that could add that to my look.
- [38:13]
Joanna Robinson
You're absolutely right. Yeah. Fred Kaur. Yeah.
- [38:16]
Bill Simmons
So I didn't. The Jake thing, I thought was super weird. One of the things that bothered me the entire season, which I can't remember, they might have established in episode three, in the flashback where she has the knife, Jessica Biel puts it in the glove compartment of her car. Just keeps it there. Like one of the first things anybody is going to search. Her fingerprints are all over it. Finds the files in the glove compartment.
- [38:46]
Joanna Robinson
Finds the secret gentry group human trafficking files in the safe in her Manhattan apartment. They didn't search the safe of the murder victims.
- [38:55]
Bill Simmons
They don't search anything. How about this? Kim Dickens, terrible at her job. She's just mangling the investigation all over the place pretty bad. How do they not check the glove compartment?
- [39:03]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [39:03]
Bill Simmons
Then Elizabeth Banks opens. The thing is like, oh, there's the gun that our dad gave us once upon a time. There's blood all over it. I wonder what this is.
- [39:11]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, yeah. No, the. The cops not at the top of their game in. In this show. In this B plus app. Amazon Prime Show.
- [39:21]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, though. Though. Kim Dickens sidekick mustache. No more mustache guy.
- [39:26]
Joanna Robinson
Mustache guy.
- [39:27]
Bill Simmons
So he has a mustache for like this guy. This guy doesn't. Doesn't really stand out in any way. He's not funny. He's not really sinister enough. His big move is he had a mustache and they shaved it and they mentioned it. Other than that, I don't know why he's here. And this was a classic.
- [39:46]
Joanna Robinson
And I was trying.
- [39:46]
Bill Simmons
Maybe you could have gotten more from this part from somebody else.
- [39:49]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, maybe I was trying to look up if this was like a Henry Cow. Like, did he have to shave it for another role that he was doing? And then they decided to make like a big deal of it inside of the show because there's.
- [39:59]
Bill Simmons
Right. They had to stop shooting for a month and he had to. And then they had to like felt like the obligated to mention it.
- [40:05]
Joanna Robinson
I mean, like, you know, but feel free to tell me if anyone's listening and they know the answer to this. But I like the only other thing I could see on his CV that was right around the same time as the Beekeeper. And he's got facial hair in that one. So I was like, I don't know. I don't know what happened that he shaved his mustache and they decided to make a big deal of it. But they did.
- [40:18]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. That was a weird one. What do you think of how they did rich people stuff in the show? Because that's always an essential piece of these shows. I really like. I gotta say, I really like their apartment in New York City.
- [40:29]
Joanna Robinson
You're our. You're our correspondent, Bill on this front. I don't.
- [40:32]
Bill Simmons
I don't know anything about the New York City apartment luxury parts. But it did feel like I checked a lot of boxes for things I've seen in other shows.
- [40:39]
Joanna Robinson
I'll tell you what I know which is New York legacy Media. So the way in which they were trying to do. Definitely trying to do Vanity Fair with her magazine. And so all the stuff we got, like down to the font of the logo and stuff like that, and her Anna Wintour esque Bob. I mean, of course that's Vogue, but like, you know, she's just trying to run this Conan ass stuff kind of circle. And I. They got. They got some things right there. They got some things quite right there.
- [41:07]
Bill Simmons
That was another one of my nitpicks. You're just going on leave immediately. If you're in a giant murder investigation, they're like, hey, they have to do this big scene where her boss is like, hey, we talked to the board and we want you to take a leave of absence. Guess what? The leave of absence is happening when your whole family is in a murder investigation. You're not just gonna go to work on a Tuesday and be like, okay, so let's talk about the front of the book. What do we have for our last feature?
- [41:34]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, what should the letter to the editor be this month, do you think? Yeah.
- [41:38]
Bill Simmons
Well, and then the other thing is, I'm sorry, they don't speed rush murder investigations. These things take forever. Like Karen Reid, which is like the biggest murder thing happening in Massachusetts this decade takes forever. And you can't just be like, all right, we'll move that up to April 9th. These go for like two, three years. So by the time this kid actually goes to trial for this murder, it's at least a year after the murder.
- [42:02]
Joanna Robinson
Okay, Right.
- [42:03]
Bill Simmons
He's. He's already, like, graduated from high. He's not like, all right, I guess I'm back in time for my chem. My chem exam final. Yeah, he's done. He's. He's missed a year and a half of school.
- [42:12]
Joanna Robinson
They do a lot of time. Does pass in a way that you're not really noticing. Because they'll say like, hey, the trial's six weeks from now. And then it'll be in the next scene. So, like, six weeks pass, she's there.
- [42:22]
Bill Simmons
They're like, no trial is six weeks from now. They take six, nine months.
- [42:27]
Joanna Robinson
But I'm just saying, like, they're also speed running a lot of time in this show. Like, this took a place, you would think, watching it over a couple weeks. But I think it was months and months and months that this show takes place. But you're saying it should have been years and. But I'm saying the kid's 20 by.
- [42:42]
Bill Simmons
The time he's free.
- [42:43]
Joanna Robinson
I'm telling you, Bill, I would not want to watch years in the life of these people. So.
- [42:47]
Bill Simmons
Well, here's another thing. So we, if we're stretching it out to eight episodes, give me the kid in jail for a couple scenes. Is he scared? Does he feel like, does he have to fight somebody the first day or else he's going to become a target for all the other inmates? Is he in solitary?
- [43:03]
Joanna Robinson
I don't know.
- [43:04]
Bill Simmons
Are they calling a murderer? Why did he have the black eye?
- [43:06]
Joanna Robinson
I feel like I got that from that. He's like, I got beat up. I didn't know what to do. Now I know what to do. And then later he's like, I've started.
- [43:12]
Bill Simmons
I would have loved to have seen it. Okay, sounds really interesting.
- [43:15]
Joanna Robinson
Okay.
- [43:16]
Bill Simmons
You know, I'm a 17 year old rich kid. I'm in a maximum security prison. Am I. What, what is the jail like? Is he scared? Is he crying? Nothing.
- [43:24]
Joanna Robinson
Okay, Season two. Well, it was that. It was actually kind of interesting because there are two actors, Lauren Toussaint and, and then the guy who plays Artie are Orange is the New Black actors. And so I was wondering if there was like DNA crossover between those two shows. But like. Yeah, so you wanted Orange is the New Black, but with this teenage kid in prison.
- [43:47]
Bill Simmons
I'm just saying it was sitting there.
- [43:48]
Joanna Robinson
Okay, what would you have cut, what plotline would you cut in order to spend time in prison with this teen kid?
- [43:59]
Bill Simmons
I thought the. There was a little too much banks, hot mess, Express AA meetings.
- [44:05]
Joanna Robinson
You would have cut the AA meetings.
- [44:06]
Bill Simmons
Probably would have cut the AA meetings.
- [44:08]
Joanna Robinson
Okay, but then we, but then we don't like.
- [44:10]
Bill Simmons
That's a cheap gimmick.
- [44:11]
Joanna Robinson
We don't meet hot weathered author guy, you know?
- [44:14]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, not sure we needed that guy either, but maybe we would have cut some Jake, maybe. Maybe two less Ascot scenes.
- [44:22]
Joanna Robinson
Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely cut. Cut the.
- [44:24]
Bill Simmons
I'm not asking for 45 minutes in prison, but give me like the first night in jail. Give me like he's going to get food and somebody hits him over the head with a, with a tray and he's gotta like fight back. Or he's got some guy on the inside being like, you're gonna be a target unless you show them that you got it. You're gonna stand up for yourself. So now he gets that kid. Just give me like three jail scenes.
- [44:45]
Joanna Robinson
It's. This is your Oz fan coming out. You want to go. You always want to see content. I see.
- [44:50]
Bill Simmons
Well, when somebody goes to jail, naturally you put Yourself in the position. It's everybody's worst case scenario to go to jail. And it's. I kind of want to know what he's thinking. He just seems not damaged enough by the end of this. It's like, oh, let's make some eggs.
- [45:04]
Joanna Robinson
Do you think that they didn't show him in jail because they wanted to keep you in doubt as to whether or not he did it? And if you spent like literally any more time with that kid, you're like, that kid definitely do this.
- [45:14]
Bill Simmons
But I mean, you mentioned it earlier with the Law and Order template. Like, the person who gets arrested in the first 25% of a show like this is. Ends up not being the killer. So it's almost like you cross him off once he gets arrested.
- [45:27]
Joanna Robinson
It's very true.
- [45:31]
Bill Simmons
But the COVID up thing was a very good angle that I don't remember saying before that he felt like he had to do this because he didn't want his mom to go to jail.
- [45:40]
Joanna Robinson
I feel like we've seen that before. And I could not name for you what it is right now. But a sort of like, I thought you did it. I thought you did it.
- [45:49]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, it does feel vaguely familiar, but I did like it.
- [45:52]
Joanna Robinson
Jessica Biel, you mentioned sort of like all the confusing wheelings and dealings in the last episode, but I think I sat up and paid attention because we had been primed for that. Because midway through the season, in order to get her son free and out of court, she goes and fucks Jake and sets him up. And I thought that was a beautiful, ice cold move from Jessica Biel's character, and then puts on this whole performance in court. And it was just like, that was.
- [46:24]
Bill Simmons
The best part of the show.
- [46:25]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah, so you're like on the lookout for her ability to scheme and manipulate things. And so when she like swings by Matthew Modine's place at the end, presumably with like, I don't know, a collection of ascots for his husband, and, you know, plants the murder weapon. Like, great stuff.
- [46:41]
Bill Simmons
Did you want more trial or less trial? Because Presumed Innocent leaned the other way and went big in the trial.
- [46:46]
Joanna Robinson
No, that was. I thought that was perfect amount of trial I didn't need anymore. It was like two days of testimony.
- [46:51]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, yeah, we had trial montage, multiple witnesses, just banging stuff out. Yeah, I thought the weakest character, it actually liked the performance more just how they drew it up was the doorman. Doorman, Doorman. Arty just being that much of a, I don't know, an enforcer. He's gonna Talk shit to Corey Stoll. That one didn't totally add up to me.
- [47:16]
Joanna Robinson
I think he was like full of whiskey, courage. And I did like the side plot where he was like selling rich people's cast offs on Craigslist. Like the, the, you know, residents of the building who are just dumping their couch every couple years. He's just making it.
- [47:33]
Bill Simmons
I think that might be true, by the way.
- [47:34]
Joanna Robinson
I hope it's true.
- [47:35]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I think people do that.
- [47:36]
Joanna Robinson
I hope it's true. Yeah.
- [47:39]
Bill Simmons
All right. Anything else we have to hit with this show?
- [47:42]
Joanna Robinson
No, I just, I think.
- [47:46]
Bill Simmons
Now that you're coming to grips with the season two, because you know I'm right.
- [47:49]
Joanna Robinson
I know it's coming.
- [47:51]
Bill Simmons
It's.
- [47:51]
Joanna Robinson
It's disappointing that.
- [47:54]
Bill Simmons
Who killed Jake? Could it have been more than what we thought?
- [47:57]
Joanna Robinson
Oh, God. But I think that maybe a Matthew.
- [48:01]
Bill Simmons
Modine dies in prison Epstein style.
- [48:03]
Joanna Robinson
No. You want, you're going to want a whole three episode arc of Matthew Modine in prison?
- [48:09]
Bill Simmons
Well, no, but maybe he. It's, it's a quote unquote. He killed himself. But did he.
- [48:13]
Joanna Robinson
Do you think he's killing.
- [48:14]
Bill Simmons
The cameras got shut down for a half hour when he was in sale.
- [48:17]
Joanna Robinson
Can you wear an ascot with an orange jumpsuit? Is that something that you can do?
- [48:21]
Bill Simmons
Well, that'd be. He gets out of jail and it's. They give him his stuff back and it's like a wallet.
- [48:26]
Joanna Robinson
Seven ascots, all ascots, all the time.
- [48:30]
Bill Simmons
You know, Modine's my guy, right?
- [48:31]
Joanna Robinson
Oh, I love Matthew Modine.
- [48:33]
Bill Simmons
His vision quest is like, like important 80s movie for me. We already did our rewatchables. Yeah, he's a great run by him. Pacific Heights, which we have not done on the rewatchables yet, but it's one of my favorites.
- [48:45]
Joanna Robinson
No, I'm a big, I'm a big Modine fan. I really like his. The modinassance of like he's in a Chris Arnold Batman movie. He's in Stranger Things. He's, you know, he's around, he's working. That, that makes me really happy. The ascot choice is just. And surely it was not his choice, but it was, it was a really interesting thing. I think more shows should aim to be B. I think we would have a better society if more shows were just delivering solid B and not shooting for A when they don't have the ability to get there. Do you know, I'd rather a solid B show than like a show that's really trying to get to A and winds up in the C territory as.
- [49:23]
Bill Simmons
A result, you know, I agree with you. And I'll give you my score of looking up versus looking down that we talked about, which is our version of a sports metric.
- [49:36]
Joanna Robinson
Okay.
- [49:36]
Bill Simmons
How engrossed you were in the show. I was probably 45% looking up at the TV during this entire show. It really did the job.
- [49:44]
Joanna Robinson
At the start of the. Of this episode, you said 50. 50. You just downgraded 5%.
- [49:48]
Bill Simmons
I think I downgraded at 5. The more I'm thinking about it, it's.
- [49:51]
Joanna Robinson
Because they didn't have prison scenes. And you were like, if you put those for the season, you would have gotten that.
- [49:56]
Bill Simmons
Middle episodes, the trial. I was up.
- [49:58]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [49:59]
Bill Simmons
But, yeah, there was some. Some other. And you know, you're checked out on dad.
- [50:05]
Joanna Robinson
You're not here for.
- [50:06]
Bill Simmons
Did the sisters hate each other or not? That was another one where all of a sudden they're making eggs in the kitchen together and it's like, I thought you guys didn't talk for 10 years. I thought they jumped fast on that.
- [50:15]
Joanna Robinson
That's the point of sisterhood. They're, like, constantly in and out with each other in this. Like, Jessica Biel is in with her, and then she.
- [50:23]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, no, I get it.
- [50:24]
Joanna Robinson
Then she rats her out to the. To the journalist at the party. You know what I mean? Like, it's just. It's constantly swinging and that.
- [50:31]
Bill Simmons
Should she have been more white, trashy and more annoying than she was?
- [50:36]
Joanna Robinson
Do you want, like, an accent? Would you have preferred she had been from the south and giving you, like, cigarette?
- [50:40]
Bill Simmons
I felt like cigarettes were a must, to be honest. I don't know why she wasn't chain smoking.
- [50:44]
Joanna Robinson
She was smoking. That's how Kim dick the DNA off of her. She dropped her.
- [50:47]
Bill Simmons
I'm saying cigarette in the kitchen.
- [50:49]
Joanna Robinson
Cigarette.
- [50:50]
Bill Simmons
Every Jessica B. Getting mad about, you're really going to keep smoking my house, all that. Like, I just would have ramped that up.
- [50:56]
Joanna Robinson
The cater waiter at the Fancy Hin party is not trashy enough for you. You need that?
- [51:01]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, that was. I needed, like, three more. Three more of those.
- [51:05]
Joanna Robinson
Okay.
- [51:05]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, that was. That was pretty good.
- [51:07]
Joanna Robinson
Okay.
- [51:07]
Bill Simmons
The mom. You like the mom, too?
- [51:09]
Joanna Robinson
I really like that actress. She was in the Penguin, and I think she's really, really good. Good. You didn't like her?
- [51:14]
Bill Simmons
I, like, felt like she was going for it.
- [51:16]
Joanna Robinson
She. She delivered most of the ham and the ham sandwich, and I thought it was delicious. I thought it was great.
- [51:23]
Bill Simmons
All right, Better sister. I'm going B. You're going. It sounds like you're a B plus. I'M going a happy B, though. It's not like I'm not dissing the show. It's. It's like a very positive B, B plus.
- [51:34]
Joanna Robinson
The plus you earn for knowing exactly what you are. And I appreciate that about the show.
- [51:39]
Bill Simmons
And your friends and neighbors. Where'd you end up with that? B minus, C plus.
- [51:42]
Joanna Robinson
That's a B minus. C plus for me. Yeah. Where are you with that? Where's your.
- [51:45]
Bill Simmons
That was a B for me.
- [51:46]
Joanna Robinson
Okay.
- [51:47]
Bill Simmons
All right. Yeah, I really enjoyed it.
- [51:49]
Joanna Robinson
It's because there's more homes for you to look up on Zillow.
- [51:52]
Bill Simmons
No, I really like the college episode. I thought I had such a good time. That one episode, it bumped the grade up for me.
- [51:58]
Joanna Robinson
It just, like, had you coasting through the rest of the season was just like, remembering.
- [52:01]
Bill Simmons
I did spend at least one episode trying to figure out where they were filming it, which was somewhere past the Connecticut border in New York and that whole, like, Westchester riot. I mean, so I did the deep dive on that.
- [52:11]
Joanna Robinson
That was the Zillowiest show that we've watched in a long time. Yeah, absolutely.
- [52:16]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. There were some. Some really fun houses to look at, but I'll tell you, Sirens, it was the one redeeming quality of Sirens. I had no idea that that whole world. I was. I was deep diving that one.
- [52:27]
Joanna Robinson
Really mad at myself for finishing that show, for having watched the whole thing. Really mad at myself.
- [52:32]
Bill Simmons
I will say, though, our guy Kevin Bacon was really good. He looked great.
- [52:35]
Joanna Robinson
He looks phenomenal.
- [52:37]
Bill Simmons
Megan Fahey, handsome as ever.
- [52:38]
Joanna Robinson
Megan Fahey, also quite good. I thought of all the people in that show, I thought she was quite good, but it's not what I want. I understand why that's where she went after White Lotus, but it's not. She deserves better.
- [52:50]
Bill Simmons
What are you and Rob, what do you have coming up on Prestige? Anything.
- [52:54]
Joanna Robinson
We're doing stick. The Owen Wilson show and the golf show. And I. Rob had never seen Tin cup, so he's watching Tin cup for the first time. And I'd never seen Happy Gilmore, so I'm watching Happy Gilmore for the first time. So we're gonna do a little, like.
- [53:07]
Bill Simmons
Maybe this will lead to the Sopranos finally.
- [53:10]
Joanna Robinson
Loser guys play golf is, you know, something we're gonna check in on. So.
- [53:14]
Bill Simmons
All right. Good to see you, Joanna. Thanks to Kai and John as well. You can check out the Prestige TV podcast as a video podcast, if you didn't know that, on Spotify. And we have. What is it? Ringer Dash TV is the YouTube channel.
- [53:26]
Joanna Robinson
Yeah.
- [53:26]
Bill Simmons
All right, thanks. Joanna, Good to see you.
- [53:28]
Joanna Robinson
Thanks, Bella. Bye.