Molly Jong-Fast (4:11)

I am in New York in my office.

Scott Galloway (4:15)

Nice. So let's bust into it. I'd love to get your take on the, the peace deal, how you think it came together, Any thoughts on concerns around it, credit Trump deserves or doesn't deserve or the administration for it. What are your thoughts?

Molly Jong-Fast (4:30)

I'm not super involved in foreign policy for any number of reasons, mostly because it's not where I have any expertise. But as an American, that doesn't stop us.

Scott Galloway (4:41)

Molly.

Molly Jong-Fast (4:42)

Well, but as an American Jew, I can certainly talk about the tension that I have felt for the last two years as an American Jew and how tough it's been, you know, going to synagogue and feeling a real, it's really a fraught moment for American Jews.

Scott Galloway (5:03)

So I appreciate that you want to stay in your own lane. Let's talk. You're a New York resident, no?

Molly Jong-Fast (5:08)

Yes. Yes.

Scott Galloway (5:09)

Okay. So as a New York resident and a Jew, give us your sense of the male race, your thoughts on it, and how it might impact national politics.

Molly Jong-Fast (5:19)

It's funny because I always, you know, with the last cycle with Eric Adams, there was this feeling that nobody was interested in New York City politics at all. And it was really, you know, we wouldn't cover it because we covered it a little bit on my podcast. And we would see that it was like no one was interested in it. People on the left were in it. Nobody was interested. They just didn't care. And largely. Cause that's. It's a relatively unsexy job. It's a managerial job. I think that we've seen some really good mayors who have been more on the managerial side and less on the ideological side. I'm thinking of Bloomberg versus mayors on the ideological side who have not been such good mayors. And that makes me think of de Blasio. So mayors on the ideological side tend not to do as well as mayors on the sort of management side, because city is an enormous city filled with a lot of moving parts. That said, what I think is really important about the Mondami situation is that he is wildly popular and you have Democrats, and we talk about this all the time, trying to figure out a lane, a way in which to connect with populism. And here is this candidate who has done it, but the insiders in the party don't like him and won't endorse him. And again, I find that to be a very interesting moment that we're in.

Scott Galloway (6:56)

It feels as if. And I'm not a New York resident, and to a certain extent, how you feel about Israel, I feel a little bit about. Or the peace plan. How I feel about the mayoral race. And that is, I'm not a resident. I don't vote. I think. I think these things have less impact on global politics than people would like to believe. I agree with you. It's a managerial position. Keep the streets clean, pick up the trash, make sure the tunnels, the subway's working. But this does feel different. And I don't know about you, but I got kind of caught up in mom dummy fever. I love the fact that he weaponized social media platforms. I'm a huge believer. And we need. The political establishment needs to shed its skin and bring in some fresh ideas and fresh people. You know, I got caught up in some of this fever. And at the same time, the guy keeps using the term genocide to describe what's happening in the Middle east, which I think is cloud cover for continued anti Semitism, is I do not believe in any way it qualifies as a genocide. So it's like. And I don't know if this is representative of how people in New York feel, but I'm just so hot and Cold on the guy. And ultimately I really do find, have trouble with his chosen vocabulary. But at the same time I just think it's such a shame that this type of and some of his proposals around rent frees, government controlled or government sponsored stores, it just feels like, okay, the kid has no understanding of basic economics, but I appreciate he's trying to do different things. Do a lot of New Yorkers feel as. I think what you're saying is Ned is just incredibly conflicted over this guy.

Molly Jong-Fast (8:41)

So wealthy people don't like him. Very wealthy people don't like him. And there are a number of reasons for that and he's not for them. I think that the grocery stores again, the rent freeze, that is I think undoable. And there's research to show that actually freezing the rent doesn't have the result you want.

Scott Galloway (9:02)

It doesn't work right.

Molly Jong-Fast (9:03)

The free buses comes from Bloomberg. So that I'm not so worried about. I think people really don't like him and they say that he's anti Semitic. Now I don't necessarily like, I think what's happening in Gaza is ethnic cleansing. I am a Jew. I don't think of myself as anti Semitic. I know people on the right feel that criticizing Israel is akin to antisemitism. Personally, I feel like I would like to see everyone stop killing each other in the Middle East.

Scott Galloway (9:39)

Yeah, I think we all agree on that.

Molly Jong-Fast (9:41)

Yeah. And so I don't, you know, when. So I don't feel, I mean, I often, I have a lot of friends who are wealthy and who are absolutely apoplectic about Monda me. And so I always say to them, explain to me why, what am I missing here? And they'll say things like he's anti Semitic. And I'll say, well, explain to me what that looks like. And I can't get, I guess the genocide answer is the closest to it though we have seen like other Jews, rabbis, you know, other people involved. One of my cousins was involved in this flotilla, like, who do consider it to be a genocide. I think of it as ethnic cleansing because I think that it's not, it doesn't fit the actual, it doesn't fit the definition of a genocide. But the reality is like as a Jew, I don't think that we're watching Netanyahu try to stay in power. We know that's what's going on behind the scenes. So I don't, you know, and while he's doing that, he's increasing anti Semitism in the world by, you know, creating this, this untenable situation in Palestine. So in my mind, the sooner all of this is over, the better for everyone.

Scott Galloway (11:03)

Oh, I couldn't agree with you more, but I'll just for shits and giggles, channel how I think some people in New York or their concerns one, the definition of a genocide. These words have meaning, right? Fratricide, kill your brother, patricide, your father, homicide, a murder. Genocide is the purposeful extermination of the group of people based on their ethnicity, their nationality or their religion. It doesn't logically make sense to me that Israel is celebrating in the streets over a purported genocide of 3% and that people trying to enact genocide don't drop leaflets, leave voicemails. And Hamas has basically acknowledged that genocide is not the objective of Israel and as a result is embedding civilians in military targets. And if they generally believe that Israel was trying to affect a genocide, they wouldn't do that because that would be a two for one. So I think as a Jew, I worry that when anyone continues to describe the situation in the Middle east as a genocide, that they're creating cloud cover for continued anti Semitism. Because if I or anyone else is a supporter of Israel, as I am, and I had definitely had problems with Netanyahu, but if I support Israel's actions, then I'm a supporter of genocide. And I believe that if I'm, you know, if, if that logic holds, that that creates cloud cover for action, discrimination or violence against people like myself in the US and so I think that type of language, especially coming from a guy who was using terms like globalizing, intifada and he, I want to acknowledge he's backed off of that, which I see as nothing but a call to rise up in violence against Jews, that these statements are somewhat troubling. On the economic side, the notion of raising taxes in New York, I understand it theoretically, I believe we do need to raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations. The issue is, and I haven't seen a study here, and maybe you've seen it, is that at some point wealthy people who are the most mobile people in the world, leave and you end up with a smaller tax base. We saw that in London. I'm in London today. We have this non dom thing where basically we said to people who came here, basically avoiding taxes, enough already, you need to pay your fair share. And they said, fine, I'm out, I'm moving to Milan and Dubai and the UK treasury is now lower than it was pre, kind of non dom. And I think the fear, and I don't know if you've seen any data to counteracts this, that if at some point the wealthy will leave Manhattan and I haven't seen any evidence that they have done the right studies to say that in fact they could raise taxes. Any thought on the economics around the taxation or.

Molly Jong-Fast (13:44)

I just want to get back to the globalize the Intifada line because Senator Gillibrand said that he had said it, but I actually think that he didn't, that she was wrong and apologized to him for that. So I don't think he actually did say that. And in fact he said, I'm just gonna read to you that he would not use the phrase globalize the intifada and he discouraged others from doing it. So I just wanna. Because we're talking about words. And again, I do not think it's a genocide though the fact that we are even having this conversation is not good. What I would say about taxing rich people. Rich people don't like it. They often threaten to move. I certainly know a lot of my rich friends are very agitated about this now. I think it's very. We live in a country where, and you don't live in this country, but I live in this country where 10% of Americans control 67.5% of the wealth. That's according to the St. Louis Fed. So that makes me think that. And I don't like paying taxes either. It's not that fun. But I do think that you can only go so far in the Gilded Age before the American people are like. I mean, I think, and I think we're seeing this a little bit with Trump. Right. Trump ran as a populist. He said, I'm going to make things cheaper for you and take care of you and help you and make coal great again. And you can't make coal great again. I mean, you saw those coal miners with the lungs have come to D.C. to protest Trump. So I think that there's only so much wealth that people can accumulate without eventually normal people pushing back. And that's why you have the situation I think that you have with the United Healthcare executive where you had somebody murdered and Americans cheering and you couldn't. I mean, I don't know if you saw that moment where that late night host was like, you gotta stop cheering about a guy being murdered and they were booing him. And it was really an example of like, this is a road we're going down. And the second order of effects, the second order effects, we don't know what they are.

Scott Galloway (16:17)

Yeah. And Just to acknowledge the point when the 26 wealthiest families are worth more than the bottom half of America and you have people worth more than the GDP of Latin American nations. I mean, we've seen the cycle before, right? The top 1% create regulatory capture, weaponize government, overrun it, and aggregate more and more wealth. And at some point, I mean, Europe has an excuse for why they haven't recognized prosperity. They're not growing. The US has no excuse because we have been, we have created a ton of shareholder value. It just somewhat of the way William Gibson described the future, it's not evenly distributed. Right. I don't know much about you, but I know you make a very good living. I make a very good living. We, most Americans would qualify us as being wealthy. And I recognize that my taxes, I think in many ways are too low. I don't understand why you tax labor and sweat at a higher rate than tax and capital. That makes no fucking sense to me that young people who make their money through sweat and rent don't get tax deductions. I make my money through buying and selling stocks and investments and I own real estate. And those are the two biggest tax deductions. So I absolutely understand and empathize with the fact there needs to be a transfer of wealth back from the top 1% of corporations to the middle class. I guess what I'm trying to understand is. And is what is the best way to do that? Because what I have seen, I mean, for example, in New Jersey, I don't remember this. David Tepper, who ran Appaloosa Capital, the treasurer of New Jersey, and they have to balance their budget, called an emergency meeting on a Sunday night because he found out that Tepper had moved to Florida and it was going to blow a $200 million hole in their budget. And I just wonder, it strikes me that someone needs to do a study to say, at what point do corporations and wealthy people leave? Because I agree with you, when you live in New York, I would bet you're paying close to 50% taxes. And what I would argue is that it's worth it. More than that, 52. I would argue it's worth it. Because even more than that, by the way, for those of you who can't see Molly, she's pointing up. But I would say that we make that choice just as people make the choice to live in California. Because California, in my view, I've lived in Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York. I left New York because it was too expensive for me. But no one has a birthright to Live in New York and taxes that high.

Molly Jong-Fast (18:43)

I would argue you live in London, though. I mean, that's not.

Scott Galloway (18:47)

Well, yeah, but that's after I got wealthy.

Molly Jong-Fast (18:49)

Right. Okay. I'm just saying, like, I left New.

Scott Galloway (18:51)

York about 15 years ago because, quite frankly, I just couldn't afford it at the time. But the argument is, or, and I think I'm talking your book now, is that the wealthy are the most mobile people in the world. And yet they choose to live in San Francisco, New York. Cause it's worth it. I think those two places are singular. The question is, at what point might the straw break the camel's back?

Molly Jong-Fast (19:13)

I know a lot. I know some people move to Florida and some people move to Texas in order not to pay taxes. It's morally disgusting, right? I believe it's morally disgusting because it is. I know a very wealthy man who had some big event, liquidity event, and moved to Texas because he didn't want to pay taxes. It's morally disgusting because that money is our contract. As wealthy people, we make a contract. I'm obviously not very wealthy, but in this grand scheme of things, to give back. I mean, think about Aggie Gand, who I just wrote about this woman. I'm going to read you a quote from her because I think it's something that for whatever reason, the billionaires of today are not so interested in. But I think it's so. So she says it could be because I feel guilty about having so much more than most people. If I can have it, others should be able to enjoy it, too. And that's why she gave her art collection to museums. I mean, we have. The social contract is that if we have more, we are in a position. I mean, the Giving Pledge, you know, there are many. I mean, right now our government is run by wealthy people who are in it to win it. And by win it, I mean get as much wealth as possible.

Scott Galloway (20:39)

Monetizing the White House.

Molly Jong-Fast (20:40)

Right. And then just hurt people and not pay taxes and do whatever. And that's a choice for them, a moral choice. But historically, I mean, even Bill Gates, if you look at the Giving Pledge, there are a lot of people on that pledge who signed on a lot of the richest people in the world. So I think we can look at this. Even Alice Walden, there are great philanthropists. They tend to be women.

Scott Galloway (21:15)

I don't think there's so a lot there. I don't think there's any acknowledging that Mackenzie Bezos gets divorced and immediately starts giving away half her wealth. I mean, it's Just there is something about whenever you decide that the genders might exhibit certain behavior, more, more prone to certain genders, unless you're complimenting women, you're considered a misogynist. So let me stay in my lane and say that. I have found, generally speaking, I don't know if it's a nurturing or maternal feeling, but whenever I see these billionaire couples break up, typically the first thing the, the, the woman in the relationship does is start spending a shit ton of money without a demand for recognition or showing up and telling people how to operate their college. They just, they're, they, they define the, the word give. And I agree with you that wealthy people, even the robber barons, left money. Something I can't stand about this current tech cohort is they don't seem to be nearly as focused on the Commonwealth, that they're the first to shit post the America. Despite the fact that you weren't going to build a rocket company or an EV company in Cape Town or even in Toronto. It had to happen here. And yet you're the first person to shitpost America. I find it so incredibly disappointing that the most blessed among us financially seem to be the first to really criticize America and want to avoid taxes. In terms of tax avoidance, I think there's a fix here, and that is if Jeff Bezos aggregates $140 billion in Washington state using the public school system, the investments in technology, and if he were to get sick, the hospital systems, use the roads, that all that wealth aggregated in Washington should be taxed regardless of when he monetizes it. Right now, he can claim that he wants to spend more time with his father. Isn't that adorable? And move to Palm beach, and then all of a sudden start to sell his Amazon stock. Right. So I'm totally down with the notion that we should tax income based on where it's aggregated, not on where it's recognized. Where I think we might have a little bit of a difference of opinion, though, is I do believe it's healthy for states to compete against each other. I think of them as products. And as someone who moved to Florida in 2010 because it was less expensive and for a lot of reasons, I couldn't afford New York. The thing that tipped me over was $58,000 to go to a, to send my kid to school to play with blocks. I just couldn't, I couldn't figure out a way to have two kids and live in New York at that time. But at the same time, I think it's good that there's low tax states competing with the higher tax states. I feel like it kind of keeps them honest. We'll be right back after a quick break.

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Scott Galloway (27:34)

I'd love to pivot to the shutdown and get your thoughts on what according to Polymarkets, I think they're estimating this may be the longest shutdown in history. Shutdown question mark. Your thoughts, Molly?

Molly Jong-Fast (27:47)

So I was really worried about the shutdown. I thought Democrats had a much lower appetite for pain than Republicans because they want the government to work. And we all know that this Trump administration is working loosely from the project. It's actually not that loosely, but from the Project 2025 framework, which is a growth of the executive, a kind of unitary executive theory, and a federal government that operates as arms of the executive branch. So, you know, it's that Grover Norquist make the government so small you can drown it in a bathtub thing. And so I was really worried and I actually, you know, I was like, do you guys know what you're doing here? Because it seemed to me like Russ Vaughn was ready to do the rifts right, to fire people, to lay people off. And what I think is pretty interesting about what's happened is that I think that this shutdown has actually been pretty, has worked. I mean, look, everybody loses in a shutdown, but the shutdown has become about healthcare and about the Obamacare subsidies expiring. Obamacare subsidies expiring was what Democrats wanted people to focus On. So in that way, I actually think that this has been. And I was really worried because I felt like Donald Trump is extremely good at messaging. Part of that is because he is talking all the time. You'll see, like, if you watch him, he will interface with the media two, three, four, five times a day. It's very unusual that he doesn't talk to the media. In fact, there was just that one couple long weekend where he didn't talk to the media and he was wearing a hat and something was off. You know, remember that? But mostly he is like. And the thing that I really felt was the biggest failure of the Biden administration were certainly you don't not get reelected in that moment. I think the biggest failure was that they refused to interact with the media and they refused to just give him Twitter, give him something, get him out there. So I was worried about the shutdown. But what I think has been so interesting is that Trump is even saying the shutdown is about health care. And that is kind of. I mean, probably not what his people want him to say, but kind of miraculous.

Scott Galloway (30:18)

Yeah, the data supports what you're saying. According to a recent poll, 41% of Americans blame Republicans for the shutdown, versus 30% who blame Democrats. I don't know about you, Ma. I mean, we come at issues through a different lens, but I would loosely describe both of us as progressives. Are you comfortable describing yourself as a progressive? I would say I'm a progressive.

Molly Jong-Fast (30:37)

I mean, I think of myself as like, I want things to work, but I'm on the liberal side.

Scott Galloway (30:45)

I know you well enough to know that. I think most people would probably describe you as a progressive if they had to put a label on it. But anyways, I don't know about you. Doesn't it feel strange and alien right now to be winning? I feel like on this issue, I gotta give it to Leader Jeffries and Senator Schumer. It was pointed, it was focused, focusing on health care, not making a laundry list of demands. And I think they're winning.

Molly Jong-Fast (31:11)

I mean, I think that the base was so furious that they weren't going. They didn't really have much of a choice. And a good example is that Schumer in March said he was gonna shut down the government. Jeffries was all for it, and Schumer couldn't. He punted. He couldn't. He was too scared. And so I think this has been good. One of the best stuff they've done is when they've really pushed back. And look, this is, I think what's so hard about this moment, in my mind, because I think about this a lot, is that in 2016, we had this huge media, we had huge mainstream media, or at least compared to now, huge. And we had people pushing back. We had billionaires like Jeff Bezos saying, I will protect American democracy. And this time it's just been so disheartening to watch these people just roll over in the most craven way. And it's been hard. But I do think the base is angrier and Democrats have less. Like in 2016, they had a huge amount. The base had a huge amount of faith in leadership. And this time the base is really angry at leadership. And so leadership has had to work a lot harder, which I don't think is necessarily bad.

Scott Galloway (32:29)

Yeah. But it feels as if they really, I gotta give it to them because I've been critical of Leader Jeffries and Senator Schumer, that I think they've been shockingly strategic and focused here. And I feel as if every day this goes on, they're leaking more and more advantage to the U.S. how do you think America is responding to troops in US cities? And do you think, what do you think that says about. Do you think that cedes advantage to one side or the other? Because I'm of two minds and that is. I'm horrified by it. But what David Frum said, I thought was really cogent. He said, if liberals won't enforce borders, fascists will. And I feel as if the algorithm of American politics today right now is Democrats, well intentioned, take an idea too far or ignore a problem, whether it's crime in the city or, or a transgender woman participating in women's sports. And the Republicans come in under the cloud cover of that irrational policies with something incredibly coarse and cruel. Your thoughts on troops being mobilized in cities?

Molly Jong-Fast (33:42)

I think it's really shocking. Often illegal. Right. Like it's illegal in California. Trump has seen that. He's underwater. Right. He's underwater with everything from the economy to even immigration. So he said that now. And there's a reason he's not saying I'm sending these troops in because of immigration, because he sees that ICE has made even immigration unpopular. Now legal immigration is as popular as it's ever been because of Donald Trump. So he said it's about crime now because he thinks that that is the one, that's the one place where he's not as underwater in the polling. But, you know, the reality is you could say it's about anything because it's not about anything. Right. It's about sending troops into cities. But why? So the question is, this is not about crime, so what is it about? And I think it's about intimidation. Now, I interviewed this last week on my podcast. I interviewed the Attorney General for the state of New Mexico. His name is Raul Torres, and he's very smart. And I actually, I interviewed him before the election, and we talked, and he said he didn't think Harris was gonna win, and he could see that Latino voters were a real problem for her. And he's very tied in with Latino voters. And so I said to him, you know, New Mexico is a blue state, but low state taxes, very poor, bad public schools, and a lot of guns and crime. So he said, why is Donald Trump not sending the military into New Mexico? And he said, because no one would notice. And so it's really important to see where he, you know, he's sending it to Pritzker because he's mad at Pritzker because he had some kind of, you know, family. I mean, I think part of it is he's mad at Pritzker because the Pritzkers are this, like, billionaire philanthropic family. But also, Pritzker is a challenge to Trump. Right? He challenges Trumpism. He sends them into California because he hates Newsom. He doesn't send them into state. You know, maybe he may. I think he may have sent them into Memphis. Right. But that was sort of to show that he didn't just send them into blue states. So what I'm talking about is clearly this is really about fighting against blue state governors. And I think when you think about Kevin Stitt from Oklahoma, the governor of Oklahoma had a really good point, which was federalized guards from different states invading other states. We are like, this is not how any of this is supposed to work. And it is really fraying federalism big time. And if you are a blue state, and this is just, I think, a real question, and I actually asked Chris Murphy about this recently. If you're a blue state, even if you're Connecticut and you're paying more federal taxes than then you're taken out. And Donald Trump is like, I know you need this FEMA money, but I don't wanna give it to you because you voted for Harris, at what point does the calculus become like, why are we paying federal taxes to be invaded? I mean, Kevin Stitt had this thing like, if the Illinois Guard is going into my state, like, my people be furious. So I think that. I don't think this is about crime, and I do think this is about, like, you know, this is. This is like America. This is the stuff that really undermines the unitedness of the States in ways that are. And again, we talked about this before. Like, the second order of facts of this, I think cannot. We don't really know how this plays out. Like, it's really opening the door to bad stuff that we have never seen in our lifetime.

Scott Galloway (37:50)

Well, I think of what is it? Socialism as the quest for equality, liberalism for liberty. But fascism, the juice of fascism, is trying to convince people that the enemy is within. Right. I don't like to compare anyone to Adolf Hitler. So I'll say the Third Reich didn't start with camps, it started with paper. And that is, it tried to convince Germans that it was other Germans that were the problem. And so when you try to gin up this hatred or this anger at other Americans and say that they're the enemy, it's not Putin pouring. It's not Russian soldiers pouring over the border in Ukraine or income inequality or climate change. It's your neighbor who doesn't share your political values. And I don't use this word lightly. It just feels, quite frankly, it feels like the juice for fascism.

Molly Jong-Fast (38:39)

Yeah, I'm a little more optimistic because I don't. I think of this as more like. And maybe this is cuz I spent a lot of time when I was a kid in Italy in the 80s. I think he's like. And again, he definitely has authoritarian. You know, he's making authoritarian moves. So I'm not saying the guy's not dangerous, but it feels a lot like Berlusconi. You know, he's doing. He's making money. Anyway.

Scott Galloway (39:04)

I thought you were gonna say Mussolini Berlusconi. That's. Yeah, you're right. That is lighter.

Molly Jong-Fast (39:08)

It has a sort of Mussolinius Berlusconi issue. There's a silliness to it. You know, there's a kleptocracy, there's a kind of crony capitalism. Look, it's profound, it's bad, it's scary, it's dangerous. And there are people in this administration who, if it's Russ Vaught or it's Stephen Miller, who are cosplaying some stuff that is real dark that we may not be able to get out of. That said, I do think the heart and soul and the genuine gestalt of Trumpism is closer to a sort of Mussolini Berlusconi, Italian sort of hilarious autocracy. And I mean hilarious in a very pejorative way. I don't mean it in a delightful way, I mean it in that it is a kind of. It's part of why Trump got elected is because people find him hilarious in a terrifying way and also because he made people feel he cared about them.

Scott Galloway (40:13)

You're a political commentator. If you were advising the Democratic Party right now, what advice would you be giving them around messaging and specific programs and actions?

Molly Jong-Fast (40:22)

So the smartest person I think is the chief of staff to Governor Pritzker. Her name is Anna. She's very, very smart and she has a sort of. She said something which I think about a lot. And I think it reflects where the base is right now, which is it's not left versus center, it's fight versus cave. Democrats want to see they're elected, protect them at all costs. These people are scared, right? They're scared of Trump, they're scared they're gonna lose their stuff, which they will. I mean like the Obamacare premiums, that will mean a lot of people will lose healthcare. The Medicare cuts will mean a lot of rural hospitals will close. So I think they wanna see their electeds just out there constantly pushing for them not to lose their stuff. And again, they are gonna lose stuff. And that is, I think really important. Is like one of the things when you would talk to people in this 2024 cycle is you'd say Donald Trump wants to do this or do that. And they would say, well he didn't do it last time. And that was cuz Democrats were successful at stopping him. I mean you'll remember like that Obamacare repeal, like it got all the way to John McCain with the thumbs down. And so I do think like they need to narrate the fight. And because there's so little mainstream media, that means that you're going to have Chris Murphy doing videos 24, 7 and they have to do that because there are no, nobody will know about it if you don't tell them. And that was, I think, ultimately the thing that really unraveled the Biden administration more than anything.

Scott Galloway (42:04)

We'll be right back. Foreign Express.

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Scott Galloway (43:39)

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Scott Galloway (45:49)

We're back with more from Molly John Fast. So I want to shift gears because we're actually quite similar in terms of the way we approach our professional lives. You're on MSNBC as a political commentator. You're an author, a journalist, but at the same time, you've written a really powerful book about your mother, who, by the way, played a big role in my childhood. I remember my mom. I didn't know what a book party was. The first book party I would ever been to was my mom had a bunch of her friends of her. My mom was a single mother. To talk about this book, Fear of Flying, it was just this cultural moment. But you've written this book that's captured a lot of attention and has sold really well at the same time. So you talk about your personal life, which I do a lot. And then you also have a career in media. You're a political commentator. I'm curious how you read the tea leaves in terms of the media ecosystem, what you see going on out there, how things are shifting and how you're trying to foot your own capital, your own human capital to take advantage of shifts in the sands, if you will. What do you think is going on out there? And how do you manage your own career to foot to those shifts?

Molly Jong-Fast (47:01)

Everything's gotten really, really small. We talked about this from 2016. If you think about, like, there were so many online magazines and newspapers and there was so much. Now everything is much, much smaller and much more siloed. And that the silo is the most interesting thing. And when you talk to people about things that are happening, there's always sort of a moment where you're like, but will this get out of the silo? Will this get out of our sil. The rest of the world or the lower information voters? And that was, you know, it's funny because in 2024, I would be like, oh, the sneakers. That's so stupid. Oh, the going to McDonald's, that's so stupid. The NFTs, the Bitcoin. But actually, that was all brilliant, right? It turns out that was all, you know, that McDonald's. That photo of him working at McDonald's got everywhere. It was like going on Joe Rogan. It was like the kind of stuff that we didn't think matter because, you know, or at least I didn't think mattered. Cause I came from the before times. So for me, you know, I just went to the New York Times and I'm a contributing opinion writer there. Which is awesome because they're amazing. And also. Cause it's, like, really fun to write stuff that everybody reads. You know, that's a place where people. They still have millions and millions of people who read that newspaper. The, like, heartbreak of my life is the Washington Post. Like, I just. I loved that newspaper so much. And to watch Jeff Bezos sort of ignore it is really, in my mind, really dark. There are, I think, a lot of opportunities because everything has become so decentralized. So you're gonna have. I think YouTube will ultimately pick up the cable slack and people be able to watch anything they want on YouTube. And that is exciting. You know, it's funny. Cause my grandfather was jailed during the House on UN American Activities. The black was really? Yeah. Howard Fazch, he wrote Spartacus. And so I always think about him because it gets. I think about the times in which America has. Things have gone wrong for this country and how we survive it. And one of the things during the House on American Activities was there were very few media organizations. And they were all deeply controlled by the government. Right. There were sensors on network television. There were. Editor. You know, it was just. You didn't. You weren't free the way we are now now. That said everybody watched CBS News like everybody was. You know, you had a captive audience in a way you don't now. Maybe I'm just too optimistic. But I actually think we will see more media organizations because people want that. And now there's just so little of it that I think ultimately it will expand to fill.

Scott Galloway (49:56)

So speaking of independent media and also dying media, what do you think of the Free Press and Bari Weiss's, what looks like elevated role in CBS News?

Molly Jong-Fast (50:11)

So I think I have a little bit of a contrarian take here, which is that I think it's like the glass cliff to end all glass cliffs. I think, first of all, it's important to stop and look at how we got to this moment with CBS News, which is Sherry Redstone wanted to sell this company. She decided to sell it to Paramount. Right?

Scott Galloway (50:38)

She bent the knee.

Molly Jong-Fast (50:39)

She bent the knee.

Scott Galloway (50:40)

That's the bottom line, right?

Molly Jong-Fast (50:41)

And that's what I wanted to get to. Because I think you don't get to Kimmel without Sherrie Redstone. You don't get to like.

Scott Galloway (50:50)

Because you feel that was the first thing. Not Iger caving on Stephanopoulos. You think it was Sherry that started the fight?

Molly Jong-Fast (50:58)

I think. Iger caving on Stephanopoulos, I think. But Redstone, she really did it like, also, she canceled Colbert. That wasn't even, you know, it was like complying in advance. There were a couple things that happened all at the same time. By the way, I also believe that those academics who moved to Canada, the Do not obey an advance guy who now lives in Canada. All of that is how you get here, right? That's all how you get here. When you're quoting a book where the author is on television talking about bravery and he's moved to Canada. That is how we get here. So I do think. And that's Timothy Schneider. I mean, I do think he's been on the pod. Yeah, yeah, he's been on the pod.

Scott Galloway (51:44)

By the way, he claims he moved for family.

Molly Jong-Fast (51:45)

Is. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. And he. Look, he's been on my podcast. But the truth is, if you're gonna be the. If you're gonna move to Canada, don't be the guy telling Americans to be brave. Don't. Because it undermines. It's complying in advance. I think that were many things that got us here. Sherry Redstone bending the knee, canceling Colbert, putting an Omnisman in cbs, paying out that frivolous lawsuit, which was a bullshit lawsuit. Iger. I mean, there were a bunch of things. But anyway, so my feeling about Bari Weiss, and I don't really know her, and I know a lot of very wealthy people love the free press because it's Zionist and it reflects a lot of the feelings of very wealthy people. And good for her, man. But I actually think it's really a tough job because you see that these network channels are really declining in revenue. And this is not a great opportunity. This is thought of. The news side is thought of as. As more of a problem than, you know, more of a bane, than a boon. And I think it's gonna be very tough for her. And, you know, she's in there to basically make things cheaper. And I've seen. I just keep seeing women being put up for jobs that look a lot like glass clefs. And I think about Harris the same way.

Scott Galloway (53:26)

So you think in some ways she's been a little bit set up to fail.

Molly Jong-Fast (53:30)

And there's so many people who want her to fail. And then you have this whole organization of people who are leaking, who can't leave because there aren't really good media jobs, but who are furious. And she's been. I mean, I've met her a few times socially and she seems perfectly nice, but there are a lot of people who are super furious. With her for any number of reasons. And she's not necessarily. I mean, she's not a traditional hire in any which way. And she's being put in this news organization in a way that I think is hard to imagine that anyone could do what's asked of them in this position.

Scott Galloway (54:10)

I always make these predictions about business, and I think I'm better than your average bear at them. And I think I'm much worse than your average person at making political predictions. I never would have guessed that it wasn't a secret police force that's mass going into neighborhoods and terrorizing people. Some have been here 10, 20, 30 years taking care of our elderly and serving us food and building our homes. That that wasn't the red line. It was. Jimmy Kimmel was the red line. Never would have guessed that. And at the same time, in the media, there's been so much attention on the Free Press and cbs, which, quite frankly, I think it's totally irrelevant. I think CBS means almost nothing anymore. I just think it's much to do about nothing. I think the media is obsessed with itself. Meanwhile, and I want to get your take on this, Trump is dividing up for his political donors a media company that has more influence over tomorrow's business, civic and nonprofit leaders. TikTok. I mean, I think that literally has a hundred times the relevance of the Free Press and cbs. I think we're literally arguing over a taco stand in Mars. And Meanwhile, you have. TikTok is about to be divvied up and given to Republican donors, which is socialism, cronyism, and in my opinion, really dangerous. Any thoughts on TikTok and what's happening with quote unquote, the. I don't know what you call it, the privatization, socialization, or the carving up of TikTok.

Molly Jong-Fast (55:40)

I think predicting the future so hard, and I've been wrong about so many things, you know, is why I try as hard as possible not to do it, because it's so hard. But I think that it is. Imagine if a Democrat were, like, slicing up companies like, I'm going to take a share of intel, you know, or.

Scott Galloway (56:07)

Malia and Sasha are in Qatar because they want to build a building. I mean, can you even imagine, can you even imagine them, like, going to the Middle east and demanding golf courses?

Molly Jong-Fast (56:17)

Look, the TikTok is such a fascinating problem because here it is, it's an algorithm that is controlled by the Chinese Communist Party, now will be controlled by Trump's friends and boosters. No, it's a huge deal and it's shocking. And it is the case for why there was a member of the Senate who I was, who was complaining to me about how there's no tech regulation, there's no fact checking on the Internet. And I was like, that's your fault. I was like, that's your fault. Like that is your fault. Like you could have regulated that. And so you don't get to TikTok without both parties being wildly irresponsible when it comes to regulation.

Scott Galloway (57:13)

So just as we wrap up here, I think a lot of people would look at your career and what you're doing and think, I want to be Molly John Fast. I think you have a very interesting profile, you're doing interesting work, you're having an impact. What is working for you in terms of mediums, in terms of you do books, you're on social, you're on a traditional cable news network. What has worked better than you would expected? What has not lived up to the expectations in terms of the time and the commitment? What is your strategy in terms of how you allocate your own human capital? And what advice would you have for younger authors and journalists who think, I'd like to be Molly John Fast someday?

Molly Jong-Fast (57:54)

A good question and also a horrifying premise. I would say the best thing I've done is writing, just writing, like writing and really, you know, writing for everywhere and growing my skill by repetition, like doing reps. I try to focus mostly on doing reps and less on like what I mean, obviously I can look at it from a 30,000 foot view and see what's worked. But like, when I'm in it, I try to just focus on repetition and not what happened, not what, you know, that kind of thing. But so what I would say is the things that have worked the best for me are. Writing a book was good. I had to wait until I had something to say and I had to make sure it was really good. So that was. So I couldn't just like write a book just because I needed the money. Which, you know, is how I historically might have done it. You know, it all sort of works together. But the thing that has been the most, you know, for me is that I always say, and I say this to I have a lot of children and I always say this to them. It's like trying is the most important thing, like nothing else matters but trying. And the best thing about my career is I got really used to rejection in a way that has been amazing. So, like, for example, when I was writing at this one place and I Just could tell it was not working. And so I went to the editor of the New Yorker and I said, do you wanna hire me? And he said, no. He said, but you should go to Vatty Fair. And I went to Vatty Fair for three years. And then, you know, and then I got this offer from the Times. And so, like, I've had. I've learned a lot from rejection, from just trying things out and seeing what works and doesn't work and being very. You know, the thing I always say to my kids and is really true is like, just push on the doors. And if the door opens, great. And if the door, you know, I mean, really push, don't like fake push. Like, push on the door. But if it doesn't open, don't start banging your head on the door and knocking yourself out. Just go to the next door, you know?

Scott Galloway (60:17)

Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And I coach a lot of young men and around professional and romantic opportunities. I'm like, the only way you get to yes is with a lot of no's.

Molly Jong-Fast (60:26)

Yeah, exactly.

Scott Galloway (60:28)

The better the yes, that means more no's. That came before it.

Molly Jong-Fast (60:31)

And also, I think, like, getting your ego out of it is really important. Like, I write. Sometimes I write really well, sometimes less well. But, you know, I don't. I can accept rejection and not be like, it's because I suck. And that's really, really helpful.

Scott Galloway (60:51)

So this will be the last question. You've written a book about your relationship with your mother. You have kids. What one or two pieces of advice would you have for people with respect to. And you can go up or down, the relationship with their parents or the relationship with their kids in terms of what you have learned?

Molly Jong-Fast (61:08)

So I. I mean, the reason I wrote this book was because I wanted people to put the oxygen mask on themselves first. Like, I felt that it was so important to not. And I think because I'm a person who, like, tortures myself, I think it's really important not to just be able to put the oxygen mask on yourself first. So I would say that has been the big sort of moment. And then I would also just. Just to sort of, you know, I mean, at the risk of repeating myself, to try, you know, the trying is extremely important.

Scott Galloway (61:49)

Put your own oxygen mask on first and push on doors really hard. Molly Zhang Fast is a journalist, author, political commentator, and host of the Fast Politics podcast, and a close friend. I live vicariously through you with George Haas. You guys look like you get into so much trouble together.

Molly Jong-Fast (62:08)

He loves you and he's always like when he's always like when Scott comes. So we all have to go together to something.

Scott Galloway (62:15)

I like that. Molly, appreciate your time today.

Molly Jong-Fast (62:18)

Thank you for having me.

Scott Galloway (62:43)

Algebra of happiness so I'm going through the college application process with my son. My first observation is I don't know what middle class households do. We have a lot of resources and it is so complicated, so extensive. I just don't know. I was raised by a single mother I barely remember. I think I typed up my application, I think my mom proofed it and I didn't get into ucla. I was going to go to Cal State Northridge where I probably would have dropped out of college because it was a commuter school and I just lacked the discipline and maturity. Got in off the waiting list. I was 17 when I showed up at UCLA. Way too young to go to college. Actually, one of my roommates and my friend Mike Baruch was 16. Believe that he was 16. Freshman orientation at UCLA. Anyways, got my shit together. But I'm going through this process right now in just a few observations. I never thought of myself as a control freak, but I feel like I understand education. I feel as if I understand what these admissions directors are probably looking for. And I've really had to hold back. He wants to do this himself, which I really appreciate, but I really had to hold back and not provide too much advice. And there's this weird transition where your job is to show them, instruct them, guide them, cajole them, mentor them as a parent. And then there's this pivot or this transition and it's hard to get used to where you're just letting them do their own thing and recognize the victory and the consequences. And I'm finding that difficult. I want to be more involved. My son is taking more of this on his own, which is a great thing. But it's sort of difficult for me. And I was wondering why. Well, okay, I practice this in my business every day. I love giving people rope. As soon as they show any reasonable competence, I let them run with something. One, because I'm lazy and B, I recognize that's how you scale a company. But why am I having so much trouble or why am I so reluctant to kind of hand over the reins to my very competent 18 year old? And I think it's the following. I think it's, you spend your whole life trying to train your boys not to need you, and then when they don't, it's devastating. It's sad over the medium term, but in the short term it's frustrating. It's like, well, I'm really smart. You don't want to know what I think or listen to me, I know what I'm doing. Or just ego and pride. You want your kids to follow your lead and ask for your advice. I'm not sure my sons have ever asked for my advice. My 15 year old, I lay down with him at night and sometimes read with him. He'll ask me a bunch of questions, but I think that's mostly a stall tactic because he doesn't like to go to bed. He's like me, he's a night person. But I think some of that disappointment comes from or that heartache comes from. This is kind of it. This is, you know, the victory is he no longer needs me. And the devastating sadness is he no longer needs me. And just coming to that recognition that your kids have their own views and sometimes their views are better than yours in some, it's just, it's the greatest victory ever. But it's so, it's. God, it's so fucking sad. It's so like I used to love when they were little, like, I just knew what to do, or at least I thought I did. And I knew what was right and what was wrong. And I knew they would listen to me and I knew they would defer to me because I was strong, I was smart, I was a provider. And now I feel my oldest, at least not so much pulling away, but kind of flying away like he's got his own wings now, he's doing his own things. And I, I can't lie. But while at the same time I'm proud of him, it is really difficult. I'm having a tough time adjusting to it. So what's the lesson here? I don't have an inspiring lesson other than say, if you're a dad and you're feeling this sense of like you're feeling bereft, you're feeling sad. I think some of that is maybe our victory, that maybe we have in fact trained these young men to go out and do their thing. So I'm trying to feel that or the Neosporin for the sadness I'm feeling right now. The missing him already is that maybe, hopefully, maybe I've done my job.

Sponsor Voice (67:11)

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Scott Galloway (67:13)

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