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Are Men Okay?

The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway

Tue Dec 17 2024

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Are Men Okay?" – The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway

Episode Details:

Title: Are Men Okay?
Release Date: December 17, 2024
Host: Scott Galloway
Description: In this poignant episode, Scott Galloway engages in a deep conversation with Sean Illing from Vox Media’s Gray Area podcast. Together, they explore the multifaceted struggles men face today, delving into societal shifts, mental health challenges, and the critical need for male mentorship. This discussion offers valuable insights for parents, policymakers, and anyone interested in understanding and addressing the declining well-being of men in contemporary society.

1. Introduction

The episode begins with Scott Galloway introducing an alternative episode of his regular podcast, The Prof G Pod, due to a scheduling conflict involving his dog. Instead, he shares an episode from Sean Illing's Gray Area podcast, focusing on the pressing issue: "Are Men Okay?"

2. The State of Men Today: Alarming Data and Statistics

Sean Illing sets the stage by presenting a stark overview of the challenges men face:

Mental Health Crisis: Men are four times more likely to die by suicide than women ([06:36]).
Educational and Relationship Gaps: Only one in three men under 30 has a girlfriend, compared to two in three women of the same age ([06:36]).
Social Disconnection: Men are increasingly alienated from school, relationships, and work, contributing to a growing sense of loneliness and disenfranchisement.

Scott Galloway emphasizes the severity of these issues by comparing the incremental increase in deaths of despair among men since 2004 to the loss of 400,000 American men in World War II ([13:01]).

3. Societal and Cultural Factors Contributing to Men's Struggles

Galloway and Illing discuss the broader societal shifts impacting men:

Evolving Masculinity: The traditional roles and expectations of men are changing, leaving many young men without clear guidance or purpose.
Economic Displacement: Men have lost their traditional economic roles, leading to reduced opportunities and increased frustration.
Political Polarization: Politicians like Donald Trump have tapped into men's disenchantment, often promoting a version of masculinity characterized by bullying and misogyny ([06:36], [10:02]).

Galloway points out that contemporary role models often embody negative traits:

“Trump and, to a certain extent, Elon Musk are a bigger problem for young men because these individuals have taught young men that coarseness and cruelty is conflated with masculinity.” ([16:55])

4. The Crucial Role of Male Mentorship and Role Models

A central theme of the conversation is the importance of male role models:

Personal Stories: Both hosts share personal anecdotes about the impact of male figures in their lives. Illing recounts how an older cousin’s intervention led him to join the Air Force and turn his life around ([28:16]).
Lack of Male Presence: Galloway highlights the scarcity of positive male mentors, especially for boys raised in single-parent households or those facing economic hardships ([29:51]).

Galloway advocates for a cultural shift to encourage more men to mentor young boys:

“We need a culture of mentorship and helping young boys. If you're a man who has love to give, you don't have to be a baller, just living a good life.” ([32:14])

5. The Impact of Modern Masculinity and Negative Role Models

The discussion delves into how certain public figures negatively influence young men:

Andrew Tate’s Decline: Galloway suggests that figures like Andrew Tate are becoming irrelevant, overshadowed by more influential but problematic figures like Trump and Musk.
Conflation of Strength with Cruelty: These role models promote a version of masculinity that equates toughness with aggression and lack of empathy, leading to toxic behaviors among men ([16:55], [24:34]).

6. Solutions and Pathways Forward

Galloway proposes actionable solutions to address the crisis:

Mandatory National Service: Drawing inspiration from his experience in Israel, Galloway suggests that national service—whether military or community-based—can instill a sense of purpose, responsibility, and community in young men ([23:04], [05:47]).
Creating Male-Friendly Institutions: Encouraging institutions like family courts, religious organizations, and community groups to facilitate male mentorship and maintain male presence in boys’ lives ([33:04]).

7. Parenting and Fostering Healthy Masculinity

The conversation shifts to practical advice for parents:

Quality Over Quantity: Galloway emphasizes that the most meaningful interactions with children often happen spontaneously, rather than through orchestrated "quality time" ([43:58], [44:10]).
Modeling Loving Relationships: Demonstrating a loving and supportive relationship with a partner serves as a powerful example for children on how to treat others ([43:58]).
Unconditional Support: Being present and supportive, even when children behave poorly, helps foster resilience and emotional intelligence ([46:14]).

Galloway shares his personal philosophy:

“Stop thinking about relationships as a transaction and just say, what kind of son, what kind of partner, what kind of business partner do you want to be?” ([47:14])

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up, Galloway and Illing reaffirm the necessity of addressing the men's crisis not just for the sake of men, but for the well-being of society as a whole. They highlight the interconnectedness of men's mental health with cultural, economic, and political stability.

Galloway emphasizes the importance of empathy and collective responsibility:

“Empathy is not a zero sum game. We can recognize the struggles of young men without detracting from the progress of women.” ([12:42])

Key Takeaways:

Men’s Mental Health: There is a significant and growing crisis among men, marked by increasing rates of suicide, substance abuse, and social disconnection.
Role of Mentorship: Positive male role models and mentorship are critical in helping young men navigate their challenges and develop a healthy sense of self.
Cultural Shift Needed: Society must move away from toxic models of masculinity and foster environments where men can express vulnerability, build meaningful relationships, and contribute positively.
Policy Recommendations: Implementing national service programs and supporting family structures that include male mentorship can mitigate many of the issues discussed.
Parenting Strategies: Parents should focus on unconditional support, modeling healthy relationships, and creating opportunities for spontaneous, meaningful interactions with their children.

This episode serves as a call to action for individuals, communities, and policymakers to recognize and address the unique challenges facing men today, ensuring a healthier and more balanced society for future generations.

Notable Quotes:

Sean Illing ([06:36]): “Men are four times as likely to kill themselves. If you walk into a morgue and you see five people who've died by suicide, four of them are men.”
Scott Galloway ([10:02]): “Empathy is not a zero sum game. We could acknowledge that women still face a lot of challenges and we should do nothing to get in the way of their progress, but at the same time, we can recognize that a young man should not be paying the price for the advantage I received.”
Scott Galloway ([16:55]): “Andrew Tate is just kind of an irrelevant footnote in history. I think he's going away almost as quickly as it's popped up. I think a lot of people have realized that this kid... is not anyone's ideal of a successful person.”
Scott Galloway ([23:04]): “I think mandatory national service would benefit America, young people, and especially men.”
Scott Galloway ([44:10]): “The biggest moments, the most important moments with my kids have been unexpected. I'm driving them to school, not looking them in the eye, and they say, dad, there's a girl I like at school.”
Scott Galloway ([47:14]): “Stop thinking about relationships as a transaction and just say, what kind of son, what kind of partner, what kind of business partner do you want to be?”

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights from the episode "Are Men Okay?" providing listeners with a clear understanding of the challenges men face today and the proposed solutions to foster a healthier, more supportive environment for men and society at large.

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Transcript

Scott Galloway (0:01)

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Sean Illing (0:36)

Support for this show comes from Amazon Prime. However you plan to make the most of the holiday season, you can do it with Amazon Prime. Whether it's last minute ingredients and stocking stuffers or a themed puzzle to solve with the family, get fast free delivery on Holiday Essentials with Prime. And with Prime Video, you can curl up on the couch, warm drinks in hand, and have a holiday movie marathon. Throughout it all, you can tune into classic holiday playlists on Amazon Music. Whatever you're into this holiday season, from streaming to shopping, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into.

Liam (1:15)

Support for the show comes from Crucible Moments, a podcast from Sequoia Capital. We've all had turning points in our lives where the decisions we make end up having lasting consequences. No one knows this better than the founders of some of today's most influential companies, and Crucible Moments lets listeners in on the make or break events that defined major Companies like Dropbox, YouTube, Robinhood and more told by the founders themselves. Tune in to season two of Crucible Moments today. You can listen at cruciblemoments.com or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Scott Galloway (1:54)

Welcome to another episode of the Prop G Pod. We typically share an episode of Raging Moderates on Tuesdays, but the dog is traveling. So in place of our regularly scheduled programming, we're sharing an episode of the Gray Area, a podcast hosted by Sean Illing, a journalist at Vox Media and the co author of the Paradox of Democracy, Free Speech, Open Media, and Perilous Persuasion. The episode we're sharing today features yours truly. We discuss the state of young men, including the struggles men are facing today, how parents can navigate the current moment, and the challenges Sean and I each faced as young men. So with that, here's the Gray Area. Are men okay?

Unknown (2:32)

What's going on with men? There's a growing body of evidence that men are falling behind in education, in the labor market. And when you look at the numbers on drug overdoses and deaths by suicide, it's pretty bleak. And it's not just a problem for men. It's a problem for women and for our culture and our politics. The fact is, we have an alarming number of lonely, alienated, and disaffected young men in this country. And whatever the reasons for that, and however justified they may or may not be, this is something we have to deal with. You can see this playing out on the political front. Donald Trump made explicit appeals to men, and it worked. He gained ground with men, especially younger men, and not just white men, but also black and Latino men. For me, personally, the sort of masculinity that Trump models isn't appealing. I think he's a bully, I think he's a liar, and he projects a kind of strength that's divorced from any sense of restraint or obligation to other people. But the fact that he appeals to so many men says something important about this cultural moment. I think about this a lot because I'm raising a young son, and I ask myself, how do I raise him to be a man who's strong and capable, but also compassionate and honest? I'm Sean Ealing, and this is the Gray area. Today's guest is Scott Galloway. He's a professor of marketing at NYU and the host of the Professor G Pod on the Vox Media Podcast network. And he spent a ton of time researching and thinking about these issues. He's currently working on a book, actually, about men and masculinity. I've wanted to talk to Scott for a while about the research he's doing, what he's learning, and how it's changing the way he thinks about his own sons, how he's raising them. It's a conversation I was going to have outside this podcast, you know, just talking to the guy. But I know a lot of you are also wrestling with this question of what makes a man, whether you're parents or not. So I invited Scott onto the show to talk about masculinity, about the struggles men are facing, and about his advice for parents who are also struggling to navigate this moment. The conversation got pretty personal, which I think is good if your definition of masculinity includes dudes can't talk about their feelings. Well, you're about to be surprised. Scott Galloway, welcome to the show.

Scott Galloway (6:36)

Well, it's just data. Men are four times as likely to kill themselves. If you walk into a morgue and you see five people who've died by suicide, four of them are men. Men are not attaching to school, they're not attaching to relationships, they're not attaching to work. One in three men under the age of 30 has a girlfriend. Two in three women under the age of 30 has a boyfriend. You think, well, that's mathematically impossible. It's not because women are dating older because they want more economically and emotionally viable men. And the gag reflex you get from progressives and women when you start talking about, you know, struggling young men is understandable because no one was talking about it. And then some very unproductive voices entered into that void and this kind of manosphere emerged where it was more what I would refer to as thinly veiled misogyny. Where, you know, it starts off good, it starts off, take control of your life, be more action oriented, be physically fit. And then it starts to go to these really ugly places, basically treating women as property, showing them who's boss. You would never let. I would never let my girlfriend go to the club alone buying some sort of expensive, douchey like super car. And by the way, take my crypto university and learn how to be a baller. And so the voices that entered this discussion initially were really unproductive voices. So I think the natural gag reflex was somewhat understandable. The conversation has become much more productive because one, the data continues to get worse, and two, the conversation is now being led or inspired by a demographic that has more credibility, and that is mothers. And that is you see a lot of mothers who consider themselves feminists saying there's just no getting around it. I have three kids, two daughters, one son, one daughter at Penn, one daughter in PR in Chicago. And my son is in the basement vaping and playing video games. And the data is just overwhelming. And you need to acknowledge that one, men have had a 2,000 year head start. So you can understand why people don't feel sorry for young men on a kind of macro level basis, but also to recognize that empathy is not a zero sum game. Civil rights didn't hurt white people. Gay marriage didn't hurt heteronormative marriage. And while acknowledging that women still face a lot of challenges to have empathy for the very real and increasing struggles young men are facing, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. And a 19 year old kid in Appalachia who's being raised by a single mother, has no male role models, has very few economic opportunities or on ramps into the middle class, is struggling perhaps, or has gambling apps on his phone, sending him notifications 50 times a day to bet on the Kansas City Chiefs game, who has social media addicting him and maybe radicalizing him, has few mating opportunities. It's okay to have empathy for that kid, recognizing that, yeah, maybe Scott Galloway and maybe even Sean, you're younger than me, had more advantage than they deserved. But should that 19 year old male pay the price for the advantage I registered? So I think the conversation actually over the last five or seven years has become much more productive. And if you want to understand why we should be thinking about it, just look at the data. Women are not going to continue to flourish, nor is the nation if men are flailing.

Scott Galloway (10:02)

I think a lot of it is our fault. And when I say our, I mean progressives. There's a certain, I think sort of, okay, these people have advantage and are naturally more likely and prone to be oppressors than the oppressed. And there's very little empathy for them in a society that is dramatically changing, where men don't have the same economic role they used to or the same economic opportunities. There are some second order effects we need to talk about, and that is if we're going to have an honest conversation around mating, we have to have an honest conversation around mating. So men mate socioeconomically, horizontally and down, women horizontally and up. Three quarters of women say economic viability is key to a mate. Only a quarter of men, now I think it's a third, say it's key to a mate. How many times have we heard, I know all of these great women who are high character, attractive, have their act together, but they can't find a man. Well, actually they can. They just can't find a man they want to date. So what you have is more and more reasons, including political bifurcation where young people aren't connecting, falling in love and mating and forming households. And we have declining birth rates. If it wasn't for immigration, we'd be in decline. And I think it leads to a lot of second order effects around loneliness and depression and anxiety. And then just to wrap up here, it's different for men than women because when women don't have a romantic relationship, oftentimes they will channel that additional energy into relationships with friends, family and their work. When men don't have the prospect of a romantic relationship, they kind of come off the rails. They're less likely to be employed, they're more likely to engage in misogynistic content. And some without the prospect of a romantic relationship, men become shitty citizens. Women don't have an obligation to mate with anyone. I'm not suggesting they lower their standards. But the reality is we're producing the most dangerous person in the world by the millions, and that is a young, lonely, broke man. And the question is, all right, what does that mean for society? Because the thing that the most violent, unstable societies have in common is a disproportionate of young men who feel as if they have nothing to lose because they have no economic or romantic opportunities. So I think this is a big issue for society and I just come back to the same thing. Empathy is not a zero sum game. We could acknowledge that women still face a lot of challenges and we should be focused on those and we should do nothing to get in the way of their progress. But at the same time, we can recognize that a young man should not be paying for the advantage I received by not acknowledging the data around just how many headwinds young men are facing in our society.

Scott Galloway (13:01)

It's staggering. Richard Reeves, who started my Yoda on this and kind of inspired my thinking on this, but Richard did this analysis and he looked at deaths of despair, overdoses, drunk driving, accidents, you know, getting way too drunk and then, and then doing something stupid. Suicide. The incremental increase in deaths of despair amongst men since 2004. This isn't how many men have died since 2004 based on the percentage of people that were dying from deaths of despair to that point. But the increase in the number of deaths of despair since 2004 has taken the lives of 400,000American men. That's how many men we lost in World War II. So the incremental deaths of despair amongst young men over the last 20 years has taken as many lives as World War II. And if you were to reverse engineer all of this to where a boy or young man kind of comes off the tracks, like where did these problems start? You can typically reverse engineer it to one point in their life and it's the following. When they lose a male role model, I think the ultimate expression of masculinity is to take an interest in the life of a boy that isn't yours. And unfortunately I was on Bill Maher and I said, I made this speech about men need to get involved in boys lives. And he said, whoa, I get involved in a 15 year old boy's lives and everyone's going to say, well, what's he doing? What's wrong? And because of the Catholic Church and Michael Jackson, there's now this feeling that if a man wants to get involved in a young boy's life, that there's something wrong with him, that he might be a pedophile. And this just isn't true. There are a lot of great men out there who have love to give fraternal and paternal love and would like to coach a young man. And they don't need to be ballers, they just need to be trying to live a virtuous life. Because I can attest to this, as the father of two boys, it is not hard to help them. Why did you decide to go to school without shoes today? Basic questions. I'm coaching another young man who's decided he's gonna quit a decent job and move to Alaska. And I'm like, why are you moving to Alaska? He's like, well, I saw a program out and it looks cool. I'm like, so you're gonna give up your job? Are you gonna give up your support system and you're just gonna move to. I mean there's some. It's not that hard to add a lot of value to a lot of young men's lives right now. So I think we need to stop the suspicion and the demonization of anybody who wants to get involved and help a young man or get involved in a young boy's life and suspect them of something much more malicious and create a culture of mentorship and helping young boys. So one call out is, if you're a man who has love to give and there's a lot of them out there, you don't have to be a Baller, just living a good life. There are young men everywhere and boys that need your guidance.

Scott Galloway (16:55)

Yeah, and I do think there's actually, at this point, I think Andrew Tate is just kind of an irrelevant footnote in history. I think he's going away almost as quickly as it's popped up. I think a lot of people have realized that this kid, you know, spending time, three months in a Romanian prison for sex trafficking is not anyone's ideal of a successful person. And all this bullshit this. This grift of join my crypto university, he's not even worth the oxygen talking about. I actually think that Trump and, to a certain extent, Elon Musk are a bigger problem for young men because these individuals have taught young men that coarseness and cruelty is conflated with masculinity. And their success, especially Elon Musk's success, is so impressive and inspiring for young men. I get why he's. He is and should be a role model on many levels for young men. At the same time, attacking people online, disavowing your transgender daughter, saying that she's dead to me. You know, it's just Trump, that being. You know, this is an insurrectionist, 34 felony counts, and people say, oh, you have Trump derangement syndrome. No, I have democracy. Addiction is what I suffer from. And at the same time, inspiring an insurrection. These are just not great role models for men. And I worry that this vision of masculinity has been conflated with some very ugly attributes. Coarseness, cruelty, misogyny. That's basically what it is. And attacking. I was on the attack I mean I have 14 and 17 year old boys. Their first role model, the first role model of any child used to be the President. That was the person you were supposed to immediately look to as success. That's what it means to be successful in America. Is that our definition of success now? Support for Profg Comes from Toyota look, we're all tired of the endless multitasking. Sometimes you need to take the time to close the tabs in your brain and relax. One way to do that is by taking a luxurious drive and in a Toyota Crown, every drive is a captivating experience for the senses. The Toyota Crown family comes with the quality and reliability that Toyota is known for, along with bold and elegant exterior styles. The Toyota Crown Sedan has an available hybrid max powertrain with up to 340 horsepower and comes with an available bi tone exterior finish to help you stand out on the road. And the Toyota Crown Signia gives you the space you'd expect from an SUV with a stylish design unlike any other. Whether you're a daily commuter or a weekend road warrior, make any drive a thing of beauty with the Toyota Crown. Learn more today@toyota.com toyotacrownfamily toyota let's go Places. Support for the show comes from Intuit. Successfully reaching the right small businesses can be challenging. Intuit SMB Media Labs gives you the power to do more by connecting you with the small businesses that need you most. Connect with an audience of 36 million, unlock growth opportunities and expand your reach with tailored insights from Intuit SMB Media Labs. Learn more@medialabs.intuit.com Support for Prop G comes from GiveWell. When you make a charitable donation, you might want to know your money is being well spent. For that, you might want to try GiveWell. GiveWell is an independent nonprofit that has spent the last 17 years researching charitable organizations. Only after careful and in depth research will they give recommendations to only the highest impact causes. Over 125,000 donors have used GiveWell to donate more than $2 billion. Rigorous evidence suggests that these donations could save over 200,000 lives and GiveWell wants to help you to make informed decisions about high impact giving, so all of their research and recommendations are available on their site for free. You can make tax deductible donations to their recommended funds or charities and GiveWell doesn't take a cut. If you've never used GiveWell to donate, you can have your donation matched up to $100 before the end of the year or as long as matching funds last. To claim your match. Go to givewell.org and pick podcast and enter Profg at checkout. Make sure they know that you heard about GiveWell from ProfG to get your donation matched again. That's givewell.org to donate or find out more.

Scott Galloway (24:34)

I think they're. I think they're examples, but they're not, unfortunately. I don't think there's. You know, I have a tough time. People always say to me, who are the role models? And I do think there's just millions of men who get up every day, add surplus value. They create more tax revenue than they absorb. They listen to more complaints than they complain. They notice other people's lives. They're in great shape. They try to achieve. They plant the trees of which the shade they'll never sit under. I think there's millions of those men around. I mean, this is an odd example. I read Kris Kristofferson's obituary. I don't know if you know him, the country singer. He was a Golden Glove, played high school football, became a Rhodes Scholar, got a master's in English from Oxford, and then decided he was going to go serve his country. Rose to the level of captain. He was a helicopter pilot, was known as kind of a poet in his music, and had this reputation for being very generous with other artists. I mean, a gentle, generous soul who wanted to serve his country, was physically robust and outstanding at what he did. Now, I don't think it's realistic to think any of us are going to be Kris Kristofferson, but I think there are men everywhere who are trying to add surplus value and can be really good role models. I think there's a lot of them in government. I think there's wonderful role models in the service and services. I think they're everywhere, unfortunately, because of social media and the algorithms, because of the rage that people feel. I think that we're more drawn to. The media is like a Tyrannosaurus rex. It's drawn towards movement and violence. And when it sees people making outlandish, provocative, stupid, aggressive, mean things, it gives those people more organic reach. So there's a confluence of really unfortunate factors, and that is the algorithms love Elon Musk. Accusing an honored serviceman of treason and saying he will pay a price. You just don't. I mean, this is the kind of behavior we never would have tolerated. But now the algorithms love it. And there are now so many people living their own reality that they believe Elon Musk, because he inspired the EV race and sends rockets into space, that he must be right, that he's onto something. And so I think there's. Unfortunately, the men who are gain the most notoriety. The algorithms love their coarseness. Their cruelty and what I would call anti masculine behavior. And that is, I don't even like to use the word toxic masculinity because I don't like to put those two words next to each other. But this is anti masculine behavior. This is deciding that you need to show your toughness by being coarse and cruel and attacking people that are less powerful than you.

Scott Galloway (29:51)

But here's what you had. You had. You had a man in your life who had an irrational passion for your well being and was willing to have a very uncomfortable like no upside conversation other than hoping it was going to impact your life. And that's what's really missing with a lot of these young men. It doesn't sound like you had a lot of male role models like me. Single mother, not a lot of economic or romantic possibilities. But what you had was a man who cared about you. And there's just certain things. It's hard for your mom to push you up against a car and physically intimidate you and kind of scare you straight. That's hard for your mom. Moms can provide other things. They can provide love and nurturing and a sense of confidence. But young men need men. And so what you had, or what I would, what I would diagnose is the drug that saved your life was having a man in your life that cared about you and cared so much they were willing to have a very uncomfortable conversation. He had to plan out what he was going to say. He had to go over. He had to know you might not ever speak to him again. A non zero probability, probably a better than likely opportunity you were going to ignore him. That's like all down, almost all downside for him other than wanting to help you because he cared about you. That emotion is what's in short supply. That person who has the strength and the willingness to find someone to go over to that guy's apartment and tell him to get his shit together and do it out of love and concern. You know, that is quite frankly what we, we don't need more fucking AI. That is what we need. We don't need more. We don't need the S and P and the Dow to hit more highs. We need more men who have the relationships and the strength and the will to go have those conversations with other young men. So I think a lot about this. But the path you took, think about that. That's a great story, right? So the question is, how do we create more of those moments where when men come off the tracks, there's someone and an organization there. For you, it was older cousin in the air Force that quite frankly saved your ass.

Scott Galloway (33:04)

I think, but even conversations like this, I think there's a lot of men probably listening to this podcast. The first thing I ask men is who have their act together. I'm like, do you mentor or coach any young men? And they'll say, well. And they pause and they're like, well, my nephew. I'm like, look what an impressive man you are. It would be so easy for you. 30, 60 minutes a week. I coach three young men at a time. And they get intimidated when they're embarrassed to do that for fear that people are going to think something's up with them. We need to starch our culture of that. And two, create a society where the moment you become a virtuous man who's on the right path, your obligation is to try and pull a few people behind you. And what you said about your relationship with your father is very typical. There's a very healthy hormone or instinct with young men where they kind of rebel against their dad because they have to leave the tribe, the nest, the pack. What's interesting is that oftentimes a 16, 18, 22 year old boy slash man will listen to his dad's friends more than his dad. And there's a lot of men, young men who the dad isn't around. My dad wasn't really around. I mean, and the other thing is, we need single moms and moms and churches and family courts to recognize the moment there's a divorce. And there are kids, specifically boys, who no longer have a male role model living with that young boy. There needs to be an infrastructure for maintaining male presence in that boy's life. And even that is a controversial statement. Well, what do you mean? Aren't women able? Well, of course they are. Women are important to a young man's life. My mother lived and died as secretary, lied to my life, but my mom always made sure I had men in my life. Two of her boyfriends that she only went out with for, you know, two or three years each stayed involved in my life and she encouraged it. There was a guy across the hall, he and his girlfriend used to take me horseback riding. And then he would just every weekend like roll over to me and like come with me and wash my car. And my mom always made sure I had men in my life and that was hugely important for me. I. My mom's boyfriend gave me 200 bucks and said, go buy stock. I started asking about the stock market. I was 13. And he said, go to one of those fancy brokerages in the Village, Westwood Village, and if you don't buy stock by Monday afternoon, I'm taking the 200 bucks back. I'd never seen $200 in my life. I went down to Dean Witter, I sat in the lobby, I met this guy named Cy sero. I had $200. I bought 12 shares of Columbia Pictures at 16. I wasn't very popular in junior high school. I used to go to the phone booth every day, put in two dimes, call cycle and he'd give me a 10 minute lecture on the market. So Close Encounters of the third Kind is a hit. That's why the stock's up today. Why is it up? There's more people who want to buy it than sell it. So they have to raise the price to get enough sellers interested in selling. I've made, and I'm flexing now, tens of millions of dollars in the market. And a large part of it is I have been buying stocks since I was 13 and I still get probably monthly a text message from Sai 46 years later. You know, a fantastic male role model for me, taught me about the markets. But we have to have a culture of ensuring and I think family court plays a role, I think religious institute. The moment you see a boy without a male role model, it is the community's responsibility to inject male leadership, male mentorship into that boy's life. Support for Prop T comes from Vanta. If you're a startup founder, finding product market fit is probably your number one priority. But to land bigger customers, you also need security compliance. 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Scott Galloway (40:38)

Some people just aren't ready for kids. They're not economically secure, they're not emotionally ready for kids. My life up until I had kids, I had kids later in life. I didn't have my first child. I was 42. My life was about more. I want more money. I want more fame, I want more recognition. I want to party with cooler people. I want to date more women. I want to have more sex, more money, more cool. It's just like, oh, I have this much money. Well, I can have more. Well, I'm in this fabulous scene. Well, all right. I'm on an amazing party in Saint Barts. Well, is there a more amazing party in the south of France? It was always more. And the only time I've ever felt sort of sated and thought this was enough was when I have. Occasionally I have that moment with my boys. And let's be. Let's be honest, kids can be awful. It's a lot of stress, but occasionally. Last night, I'm watching the Liverpool Man City game. My kids just naturally, 17, 14 come in, throw their legs over mine, just naturally. And I'm like, dogs come in. I'm like, okay, this is enough. I can't imagine anything more than this. It also got me, like you said, it's. It's almost sort of relaxing. When I was single, it was on Friday. It's like, where am I gonna have brunch? What cool people am I hanging out with? What hot woman am I gonna go out with? Like, and then all of a sudden, your weekends are like, you know what you're doing? You're taking your kid to soccer practice and you're going to some lame ass birthday party on Sunday where you want to, like, you gather with all the other dads and just roll your eyes like, jesus, how did we end up here? But it's sort of relaxing. It's like, okay, I got something else that's more important than me all the fucking time. And also for me professionally, it got me very focused. I made, always made enough money to live a pretty good life, to at least have faux wealth, have a nice apartment, a Big screen tv, take nice vacations, go on, you know, do cool things. But once I had a kid, it was like, okay, shit just got real. I got to get very focused. And I also get tremendous reward at night when I know my kids are warm and safe and well taken care of and going to good schools and I'm raised them with a competent partner. That makes me feel very strong. It gives me a sense of gratification. That is where that's the only time in my life I've ever felt whole. Like really whole. Like, okay, I get it. I'm here for a reason. I'm doing something, so I feel the same way you do. I'm remiss to tell people that the answer is, you know, have kids. But what I can say is personally is nothing. I was never sated. I was never satisfied fully until I had kids. And I think that's a whole shooting match. And I think we need more public policy that stuffs more money into the pockets of young people so they can afford to have kids. 60% of 30 year olds used to have a child in their house. Now it's 27%. So I'm a big believer in child tax credit tax holiday, like Portugal, age 20 to 30, no federal tax, more third spaces. Give more people, more young people a chance to meet each other and fall in love and have kids and make sure that when you have a kid, it's not as economically stressful as it's become.

Scott Galloway (44:13)

Yeah, look, what I try and do is Ryan Holiday is this wonderful podcaster young man. I'm learning so much from so many of these young men who talks about stoicism, he talks about garbage time. And that is you've never made the myth of quality time. Well, I work all the time, but I spend time. I have quality time with my kids. There's no such thing as quality time. The biggest moments, the most important moments with my kids have been unexpected. I'm driving them to school, not looking them in the eye, and they say, dad, there's a girl I like at school. This happened. What do you think you pray for those moments as a dad, I think my kids have asked me for advice maybe three times in their life, and they happen when they're least expected. You know, garbage time, as much time as you can. Having said that, when they're young, I didn't spend a lot of time with them because I was focused on building economic security. And I think that was the right decision. I think that trying to ensure that the household has an absence of stress by getting to a certain level of economic security. And then with any remaining time, just garbage time with your kids, just be an Uber driver, hang out with them, you know, just a ton of time with them, play games with them, because you never know when those kind of moments are going to happen. And then the other thing I think you can do as a man is try and be as loving and supportive of your partner as possible. I think they see that. I think they see this is how I should treat women. I think they see, wow, dad really loves mom and is thinking about her a lot, and I'm going to be that way when I'm a man. I think that some of my faults when it comes to women have been, quite frankly, because my model for how to treat women, my father, who's been married and divorced four times, was not a great role model. So economic security, as much garbage time as you can, can muster. And try and be a really loving, visibly loving and supportive of your partner such that your kids notice.

Scott Galloway (47:14)

Yeah, there's. There's two great points in there. This notion of a huge unlock for me was I used to look at relationships as a transaction. Am I getting as much joint camaraderie from this friendship as I'm giving, am I getting as much money from this business partnership or value as I'm giving, am I getting as much joy, romance, good sex, whatever from this romantic relationship as I think I'm giving? And the moment I felt like I was getting less than I was giving, I was angry, injected expectation of the relationship. And a huge unlock for me was to stop keeping score. And that is, I think, okay, my dad wasn't a very good dad. He wasn't bad. He was much better to your point, to me than his father was to him. His father physically abused him. And my dad tried. He, you know, left me and my mom, moved to Ohio, wasn't that involved in my life. But he did make an effort, much better to me than his father. And the fact that you've recognized that I think is a huge unlock. But the big unlock for me was, and it didn't happen until I was your age, I said, stop thinking about relationships as a transaction and just say, what kind of son, what kind of partner, what kind of business partner, what kind of investor, what kind of dad do you want to be? And ignore what you get back. I mean, if you're not enjoying a relationship, I shed friends, that's fine. If at some point it's like you're not getting no value from this thing, then just exit the relationship. But I said, what kind of son do I want to be? I want to be a generous, loving son. And that's what I decided to do. And I stopped thinking, well, my dad wasn't there for me. My dad could have. My dad basically left me to go to Ohio. I just, I got rid of all that bullshit and I started just being the son I wanted to be. It's really important with your kids because despite what the Hallmark Channel tells you, you're not going to get as much from your kids as you're going to have to give them. I mean, there's just some days where I feel like I'm a loving, you know, I'm something out of the fucking Hallmark Channel as a dad. And my kids are just total assholes. Could not be more ungrateful, could not be less kind to their mother, could not be more expectant, more spoiled. I mean, it's awful. And I'm like, okay, there's a word for that, dad. If you feel as if, all right, I'm not getting as much from my kids as I'm giving, that means you're being a father. That's what we're here for. We're here to absorb blows. And I'm not saying be depressed or not in touch with your emotions, but I recognize now that my job, my goal, is to add surplus value that I want to give more than I get. And be clear with kids, that's just, that's just part of it. You're going to have to invest way more of your love, emotion resources than you are ever. I mean, maybe when I'm older, maybe I'll get more back from them than I'm giving, but I'm not holding my breath. And what you have to realize, or what has been a big unlock for me is that's the goal, is to be able to say, I know I'm giving my kids so much more, then maybe I'm getting from them. That's it. That means I'm serving that purpose. I'm being a dad.