Prof G on Marketing: Should Your Brand Take a Stand?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Prof G on Marketing: Should Your Brand Take a Stand?

Title: The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway
Episode: Prof G on Marketing: Should Your Brand Take a Stand?
Release Date: May 21, 2025
Host: Scott Galloway, Vox Media Podcast Network

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Introduction

In this episode of "Office Hours" from The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway, Scott delves into pressing marketing dilemmas faced by modern businesses. The special three-part series, "Prof G on Marketing," focuses on answering real-world questions from business leaders about contemporary marketing challenges and opportunities. This episode addresses two main questions: whether brands should take political stands and how evolving media landscapes are reshaping marketing strategies.

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Should Brands Take Political Stances?

Question from Dom on Instagram ([01:10]):
Dom raises a critical issue: as more companies integrate political stances into their branding, does this practice harm them in the long run? Traditionally, businesses were advised to steer clear of religion and politics to avoid alienating customers. Dom seeks Scott's perspective on whether this shift is beneficial or detrimental.

Scott Galloway's Insights ([01:31] – [05:00]):

Scott emphasizes the importance of nuance in this debate. Drawing from his extensive experience on various public and private company boards, he expresses skepticism about the authenticity of political statements made by CEOs, often labeling them as "virtue signaling." He criticizes the tendency of companies to adopt political and social positions primarily to appeal to younger demographics without genuine commitment.

"I generally think it's a good idea to stay out of politics...for most big public companies, you do want to avoid politics because you are likely going to alienate 50% of the population." ([04:45])

However, Scott acknowledges that there are strategic moments when taking a stand can be advantageous. He cites Nike's support for Colin Kaepernick as a case where aligning with a socially significant figure resonated with a vast majority of their target market, even if it meant alienating a small percentage.

"They probably alienated somewhere between 5 and 10% of their TAM to embolden or entrench or inspire 90% of their addressable market." ([04:30])

Despite recognizing these opportunities, Scott maintains that, except for rare instances, avoiding political entanglement is generally prudent for larger companies. He underscores the importance of focusing on business and technological advancements rather than navigating the volatile terrain of political discourse.

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Shifting Marketing Assumptions and Podcast Strategies

Question from Ambreen ([05:56]):
Ambreen probes into the marketing assumptions that organizations might rely on, which, if proven incorrect, could necessitate a fundamental shift in their strategies. She seeks insight into how businesses can remain agile amidst changing marketing paradigms.

Scott Galloway's Analysis ([06:06] – [15:19]):

Scott discusses the strategic imperative of adapting to the evolving landscape of content consumption, particularly the shift of podcasts towards video integration. He reveals that platforms like YouTube now serve as primary distribution channels for podcasts, with a significant portion of listens occurring via video formats.

"Podcasts are moving towards video. Podcasts are essentially becoming TV shows with strong audio components..." ([06:45])

Highlighting the dynamic nature of podcast popularity, Scott references the success of emerging podcasters like Steve Bartlett, who leverage high production values akin to traditional TV shows to captivate audiences. He emphasizes the necessity for his media company to invest in robust video production to stay competitive.

"The top 100, there's been huge churn...it's their video game." ([07:30])

Scott contemplates potential shifts in future dominant platforms, predicting that Reddit and Netflix could become pivotal in determining podcast success due to their unique user engagement and massive consumer bases, respectively.

"Reddit is going to be the new platform that kind of picks winners and losers." ([09:15])

He concludes by stressing the importance of strategic imperatives and the need for companies to anticipate and adapt to the next "corner" in the marketing landscape.

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Navigating the Fragmented Media Landscape

Question from Needle Eyes on Reddit ([14:35]):
Needle Eyes addresses the challenge of media fragmentation, where audience attention is dispersed across numerous platforms and micro-communities. The question focuses on how media planners and marketers can navigate this complex reality as traditional brand strategies lose their efficacy.

Scott Galloway's Perspective ([15:19] – [20:30]):

Scott agrees with the premise of media fragmentation and elaborates on the historical context of inexpensive broadcast advertising that once allowed brands to reach vast audiences cost-effectively. He contrasts this with today's landscape, where media channels are numerous, and advertising costs have surged, diminishing the return on investment (ROI) significantly.

"The cost has gone way up...you had 15 times the ROI, and yet people still do it." ([16:00])

He critiques the traditional model where mediocre products were cloaked in strong branding to capture consumer trust and loyalty. In the current environment, with access to vast information ("weapons of mass diligence"), consumers prioritize product quality and direct recommendations over brand image.

"The product is the brand...the companies that have developed the most market capitalization over the last 20 years have really been victories, not in brand, but in supply chain." ([17:50])

Scott argues that successful modern companies like Amazon, Alibaba, and Netflix have thrived not through hefty advertising budgets but by excelling in product innovation and efficient supply chains. He emphasizes a strategic reallocation of marketing resources towards product development, supply chain enhancements, and leveraging influencers and social platforms.

"The CMO that's like the second lieutenant in Vietnam...the era of Don Draper is just over." ([19:00])

He advises marketers to focus on a blend of product excellence and strategic digital investments, harnessing the power of influencers and social media to foster genuine customer engagement and word-of-mouth promotion.

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Conclusion

In this insightful episode, Scott Galloway navigates the complexities of contemporary marketing, urging businesses to carefully consider the implications of taking political stands and to adapt proactively to the rapidly changing media environment. His emphasis on product quality, strategic use of digital platforms, and authenticity serves as a valuable guide for marketers striving to remain relevant and effective in an increasingly fragmented market landscape.

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Notable Quotes

1. On Avoiding Political Stances:

   "I generally think it's a good idea to stay out of politics...for most big public companies, you do want to avoid politics because you are likely going to alienate 50% of the population." — Scott Galloway ([04:45])

2. On the Shift to Video in Podcasts:

   "Podcasts are moving towards video. Podcasts are essentially becoming TV shows with strong audio components..." — Scott Galloway ([06:45])

3. On Media Fragmentation and Branding:

   "The product is the brand...the companies that have developed the most market capitalization over the last 20 years have really been victories, not in brand, but in supply chain." — Scott Galloway ([17:50])

4. On the End of Traditional Branding:

   "The CMO that's like the second lieutenant in Vietnam...the era of Don Draper is just over." — Scott Galloway ([19:00])

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Final Thoughts

Scott Galloway offers a candid and strategic examination of modern marketing challenges, making this episode a must-listen for business leaders and marketers aiming to navigate the intricate balance between brand authenticity and strategic agility. His practical advice underscores the necessity of focusing on product excellence and adaptive marketing strategies to thrive in today's multifaceted media ecosystem.

Transcript

[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from Adobe Express. These days there are a million different ways to reach your customers, but that can also mean a million different pieces of content. It can be overwhelming. Adobe Express can help with templates, brand kits, and generative AI that's safe for business. Your team can create its own content and will always be polished and professional. When everyone can create content themselves, it's easier to get on brand content out in the world faster. Go from cookie cutter to class of its own. Switch to the quick and easy app to create on brand content. Adobe Adobe Express. Learn [e-mail] Express Business True story I have used Adobe Express and I was shocked how easy it is to use and produce content.

[Prof. G]

Welcome to Office Hours with Prof. G. Today we're continuing our special three part series, Prophet G on Marketing where we answer questions from business leaders about the biggest marketing challenges and opportunities companies face today. What a thrill. Let's bust right into it. Okay, what do we have here? Our first question comes from Dom on Instagram. He asks.

[Dom]

More and more companies are taking political stances as part of their branding. Growing up I was told that businesses should never talk about religion or politics in order to stay out of trouble and not segment customers. Does this hurt companies in the long run? Do you think it is smart that businesses are moving in this direction?

[Prof. G]

This is going to require some nuance. So I've served on a bunch of public company boards. 7. I'm kind of a big deal, kind of a big deal and probably 24 private company boards. And my general view on political statements is that it's mostly virtue signaling from the CEO likes to get in front, especially about three, four years ago, maybe five years ago, get in front of a younger workforce and talk about all this woke nonsense. Because why it was nonsense is because they didn't believe it themselves. They were just trying to score like acquire virtue. Like I don't have enough gulf streams or shares or options here. So I want to capture social status. I think that's actually a pretty decent criticism of the Democratic Party. Instead of focusing on the material and emotional well being of consumers, they want to pretend that they're grabbing virtue rather than actually getting any fucking thing done at the ground level in terms of what actually impacts people see above inflation, et cetera. So I generally think it's a good idea to stay out of politics. I tried to separate the person from the politics. I live just south of Palm beach and a lot of my friends are Republicans and I just think they're batshit crazy. I just don't understand how they can tolerate some of this nonsense. But at the same time I also recognize they're thoughtful, nice people and I enjoy the friendship. So I try to ignore it when they put out a reel saying, oh, finally the truth that these food products cause autism. And I want to write, dude, didn't we go to college together? Are you really that fucking stupid? Because I know that will damage the friendship. So I try to separate that. I also try to separate the company from politics. Now, propag doesn't do that. You know, we're a media company. We're a small company. We are highly political because a lot of what we do is putting out thought, leadership, opinion, et cetera. And still we would probably be a bigger company if I just focused on business and tech rather than taking political stance. But at this point in my life, I get to do whatever the fuck I want. See above, I'm gonna talk about my favorite is when people say in my newsletter they write, oh, get back to talking about business or things. You know, basically I got a lot of like, stay in your lane. Well, you know what? My lane, whatever the fuck I want to talk about. And I've earned that and I'm finally there. Anyways, anywho, for most big public companies, you do want to avoid politics. Now, having said that, occasionally an opportunity comes along. Race relations in the US were capturing a lot of attention. Colin Kaepernick was a great quarterback. Two thirds of Nike's customer base under the age of 30, not kind of on board with how race relations were going in the United States. Anyone who was upset about them embracing Colin Kaepernick, who burnt their Nikes, had to go out and buy their first pair of Nikes. It was a very smart move. They probably alienated somewhere between 5 and 10% of their TAM to embolden or entrench or inspire 90% of their addressable market. That's a really good trade off. We are in that moment right now and essentially I think that things have gotten so out of control where we're rounding up people with the wrong tattoo, doing really stupid shit around tariffs is going to do nothing but elegantly reduce our prosperity, put thousands of small businesses out of business. Doge which was nothing but literally like, okay, how stupid can you be? We're going to cut $2 trillion. No, I meant 150 billion. No, I meant 60 billion. No, I meant less than the subsidies to Tesla. I mean, that has been handled so poorly, so poorly that Americans are so fed up that the biggest commercial opportunity in a decade. And I said this last week, and I'll say it again, I said it in the last office hours, and I'll say it again, is to come out not against Trump so much, but to come out in favor of American values, of decency, of competition, of being thoughtful around our economic policy, of embracing our great immigrant population. PhD students of Rule of law, of due process. All the things that we've come to expect are American. That company, that company will register a torrent of new business. I mean, for God's sakes, this guy is flailing, Literally flailing. This is the biggest commercial opportunity in the last decade. In sum, with rare exception, though, let me finish where I started. You generally want to avoid politics because you are likely going to alienate 50% of the population. Having said that, on a risk adjusted basis, this is a calculated risk worth taking. Our next question comes from Instagram. Ambreen asks.

[Ambreen]

What marketing assumption about your industry or organization are you currently relying on that, if proven wrong, would fundamentally change your marketing strategy? And how would you pivot?

[Prof. G]

Each year we pick sort of a strategic imperative. I think it's important to have one thing that you're like, this is the one box we have to check this year because I think being an effective leader is not deciding what to do, it's deciding what not to do. And that is you only have so much wood. So I think it's important every year to say this is our strategic imperative. We've got to check this box for 2025. The strategic imperative for Prophet G Media is to get much better and dramatically increase our video views. What I found just fascinating, kind of blew my mind, was that the primary channel of distribution for podcasts right now is not Apple, it's not Spotify, it's YouTube. 20% of the listens of this program right now will be listened to on a television or watched on a television, which isn't a good idea. All of a sudden I get very self conscious because listen to my voice. My voice. Ooh, hello dreamy. I'm handsome, handsome voice. Brad Pitt of voices Face. For those of you watching on tv, not so much. Not so much. See above Lost virginity when he was 19. Anyways, so my, my skills play well to audio. But here's the bottom line. Podcasts are moving towards video. Podcasts are essentially becoming TV shows with strong audio components where you can just listen to the audio. If you look at, I think the next Joe Rogan is a kid named Steve Bartlett. When I moved to London two and a half years ago, the first thing I did was drive to the studio in Ipswich or Norwich or whatever the cool part of town is. And he had this incredible studio with eight people, cameras everywhere. And I'm like, this is like Charlie Rose. This is a much more deft production quality. And he was basically doing a TV show. And if you'll notice, in the last two and a half years, Steven has busted into the top 10. He used to be in the top 10 in the UK, now he's in the top 10 globally. I think he's probably going to be the biggest podcaster in the world. And if you look at the top 100 podcasts of the 1.6 million that are out there and the 600,000 that put out content every week, the top 100, there's been huge churn. 50 new entrants into the top 150 have dropped out. And what is the arbiter of who has churned in and churned out? It's their video game. So we have spent a lot of time trying to think about. We hired a kid named Billy Bennett who used to work for us, who's now was at CNN and is now working with us, just focusing on video. We have a full time tech guy, our tech guy, Drew, who's sort of our head of engineering and has known with us for about 15 years. The woman who runs my business, Katherine Dillon, is a creative at heart and edits and thinks about video. The hard part is that the thing that played to my strengths in terms of video from a personal standpoint is I'm on the road about 150 days a year. So my studio was basically a Dopp kit that I could set up. I didn't even have a ring light. I would just try and find a nice part of the hotel room I was staying in and do a reasonable job of video. And that's no longer going to cut it. So we've spent a bunch of money on studios that we're replicating in the different places I spent a lot of time in, specifically New York, Florida and London, but I'm not sure that's enough. So we're trying to be really thoughtful about marketing, pushing people to our videos, using more sound effects, using more visual effects. The fastest growing part of our franchise, or our portfolio, if you will, is Propag markets. And that's because it is tailor made for graphic overlays, because we talk a lot about stocks in the market and Ed's in the same place so they can create better production values. In sum, the assumption we made was that the new arbiter of who moves up in the world of podcasting and who moves out is going to be how strong your video game is. Now your question is, what would happen if that changed? I don't know. I guess we just have to pivot and be agile and try and figure out what that next thing is. I think the next thing YouTube is the new channel. I believe that in 2026, and I'm already starting to think about a strategy here, that the new arbiter of success in podcasting is not going to be Spotify, it's not going to be Apple. It'll still be YouTube, but more than anything, or the new player, if you will, that creates the difference between numbering number 300 and number 30 is the following Reddit. I think Reddit is literally out of central casting in terms of its niche domains. It's the viscosity of commenting. I think it was tailor made to figure out how they become a platform for taking pieces of podcasts and threading them into different comments on Reddit. I think Reddit's going to be the new platform that kind of picks winners and losers. A possible second of that on 26 is going to be Netflix, who's decided to get into the game. And Netflix just has with 350, 50 million consumers with custody of 350 million home screens. If they decide that they want to distribute Mel Robbins Podcast or Raging Moderates, that podcast will immediately shoot into the top 20 of podcasts globally. So they have so much custody of the consumer that they perhaps could be the new arbiter. In sum, I'm trying to think about not only what's in front of our face, but think around the corner and make bets accordingly. But I think about this stuff a lot. So in sum, you got to make a bet. You got to have a strategic imperative and hold people accountable and invest additional resources in that imperative such that you can give people the resources to move against or act against what you think is important and where the puck is headed. And also think about looking beyond the second corner. So what's the corner we're moving towards or where's the puck going? Video. Hands down, where do we think it might be headed? Reddit and possibly Netflix. Thanks for the question. We'll be right back after a quick break.

[Fox Creative]

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[Ambreen]

As a creative on the marketing team, I'm always looking for ways to make our content break through the noise. The generative AI in Adobe Express is safe for business so I can create graphics and videos that even our lawyers love.

[Fox Creative]

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[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from Adobe Express. With social media, email and a growing variety of online ads, there are more touch points than ever between your business and its customers. Adobe Express is here to make sure your smallest touch point is as polished, impactful and on brand as the biggest. The brand kits in Express make following design rules a breeze. Templates for flyers, banners, emails, social posts and more have all the professional quality Adobe is known for. And generative AI that's safe for business gives every everyone the ability to make images, rewrite texts and produce effects. Using simple text prompts, you can create campaigns, resize ads with a click, and even translate content automatically. Work that used to take weeks now takes minutes or even seconds. Adobe Express also makes collaboration, approval and sharing easier so any team can become a well oiled content machine. And if you're leading your team, you can monitor it all from your admin console. That means you have one centralized place where you can ensure that every asset is right and that everyone is synced. Go from fragmented to business friendly. Switch to the quick and easy app to create on brand content. Adobe Express. Learn [e-mail] Express Business True story. I've actually used Adobe Express and I was genuinely impressed with how easy it is to create professional content that you can immediately push out.

[Prof. G]

Foreign welcome back. Our final question comes from Needle Eyes on Reddit. They say.

[Dom]

I started my career in big agencies back in the early aughts when the Internet was young. However, even then we were talking about how the media was splintering and how it was getting harder to get noticed. As you know, the trend has gone into overdrive. Audience attention is splintered across endless platforms and micro communities and trust is shifting from institutions to individuals, from brands to influencers. I keep coming back to this question, how does the humble media planner or marketer even navigate this reality? The age of the all powerful monolithic brand feels like it's fading fast. And now resonance doesn't come from one big message, but from a thousand fragments finding the right ears.

[Prof. G]

Yeah, I agree. So it used to be, if you think about it, not that long ago, you could capture a third of America in about four nights, because 2/3 of America was watching one of three channels five hours a day. Now that media landscape has fragmented just wildly. And not only that, the costs have gone way up. So we didn't realize how inexpensive broadcast advertising was, how cheap it was. You could capture essentially to a 32nd spot on the Academy Awards 30 years ago was about a fifth of the price and it reached three times as many people as it does today. So it was 15 times. You had 15 times the ROI, and yet people still do it. We didn't realize how cheap it was. So the fact that media was so inexpensive from like 1945 to 1995, maybe in 2000, created an ecosystem where the algorithm for creating shareholder value was to have a mediocre truck, salty snack, sugary drink, shoe or car, build an okay shitty car, the K car, or out of Detroit, and wrap it in amazing brand codes of tough like a rock or apple pie, whatever it might be, or find soap and then craft it with okay materials or ingredients. And then talk about European elegance, create a shitty beer and convince people that if they drink this beer, they're going to be hot and have a six pack and be more attracted to potential mates. And you could infuse these incredible brand codes really inexpensively using some creative agency of guys who wore black and gave you awards. If you spend enough money on their ad campaign in Canada every year, that ship has sailed. That doc just that dog just doesn't hunt anymore. Because now we have these weapons of mass diligence that say, okay. And this is the example I always use. I usually used to stay at the Four Seasons, the Ritz Carlton, and the man in Oriental. One, because someone else was paying, I was usually there speaking or with a client. And two, they always deliver an eight. But the reality is the Mandarin Oriental in Istanbul is just not where I want to stay. The core associations of these hotel brands meant that they delivered, you know, always an eight. But then my social graph, TripAdvisor friends, weapons of mass diligence, Google, OpenAI. I go to OpenAI now and say, I'm going to south by Southwest in Austin. I'm in the midst of a midlife crisis and I want to hang out with younger, cooler people. And it literally comes back with stay at the Austin proper boom. I don't need the brand. I've never heard of the brand. I just know that I trust these weapons of mass diligence more than the brand. So what do you have? You have people trying to figure out how to game these algorithms in search. You have influencers, the rise of the influencer generation, the rise of Instagram. Do you know how much influence Instagram now has? Also, at the end of the day, and this sounds very passe, the era of Don Draper is just over. The sun has passed midday on the bullshit of thinking you're going to have a mediocre product and a great brand. Now the product is the brand. And that sounds very passe, but it's true. The companies that have developed the most market capitalization over the last 20 years have really been victories, not in brand, but in supply chain. Amazon, Alibaba, Netflix's supply chain, they went direct to consumer with DVDs by mail, and then they went direct to consumer using broadband. How much money, what do the most valuable companies in the world have in common? They don't spend a lot of money on advertising. Why? Because they've put all their money into the product. And oftentimes it's not just about the product, it's how you deliver it and discover it. That is supply chain. So what do you do? If you're a marketer, you think about, okay, where's my core customer? Finding and doing diligence on my product. Sometimes the best CMO comes back and says, folks, I gotta be honest, we should put all our money into innovation around digital to unlock new features with our product. Tesla doesn't spend a lot of money on advertising. And the bottom line is their brand has gone way down because Elon Musk is an enormous asshole, but also because the product has gotten really stale, right? So consumers can find the best product now using these weapons of mass diligence. So what are you going to see? You're going to see reallocation of capital out of traditional marketing into supply chain, into influencers, into social and into product itself. And this is hand to hand combat. There's no single platform. If you wanted to bet on any two platforms, I don't know, you'd probably bet on TikTok and Instagram and also maybe YouTube. I mean, there's a cumulative effect here, right? You gotta kind of do it all. But you want to have influencers, you want to have evangelists, you want to overserve a core customer base such that there's word of mouth and they absolutely fall in love with your product. I used to use Norelco or Braun or these shitty brands to clip my head and then I found this clipper from a former East German factory that used to make propellers for Messerschmitts and they make this incredible clipper and I went online and I found out where it was and I ordered them and they're more expensive, which is a pricing signal. But you can now find the best product or discover it online. So look, I don't. I'm not sure I'm saying anything revolutionary here, but the CMO that's like the second lieutenant in Vietnam that gets shot in the forehead within six to 18 months is the one that comes in and wants to do the brand identity and hire a big agency and talk about traditional media boss, that ship has sailed. This is hand to hand combat. That is a combination of a better product with digital unlocks huge supply chain investments. If you have access to cheap capital and then trying to identify evangelists, influencers who can weaponize these platforms to your advantage. That was a mouthful. Thanks for the question. That's all for this episode. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to officehoursoffectomedia.com that's officehoursoffertymedia.com or if you prefer to ask on Reddit, just post your question on the Scott Galloway subreddit and we just might feature it in an upcoming episode. This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez. Our intern is Dan Shalon. Drew Burrows is our Technical Director. Thank you for listening to the Prophecy POD from the Vox Media Podcast Network. We will catch you on Saturday for no Mercy, no Malice as read by George Hahn. And please follow our Prophet G Markets pod wherever you get your pods for new episodes every Monday and Thursday.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from Adobe Express. With Adobe Express, you don't need a degree in graphic design to create polished and professional content. You just need to know your products and know your customers. Adobe Express will take care of the rest. They've already helped teams at major corporations around the world create the content they need quickly, easily and at scale. Now that you've heard how Adobe Express can help businesses with all their content needs, it's time to go try it out for yourself. Go from flying solo to the full support switch to the quick and easy app to create on brand content Adobe Express. Learn [e-mail] Express Business True story. I have used the product and was genuinely impressed with how easy it is to create on brand elegant content and then push it out really easily.