← The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway
The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway
Raging Moderates: Why Politicians are Launching Podcasts Ahead of 2028
00:55:25
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- [00:01]
A
Support for the show comes from user testing. You can stop with the guessing because with user testing, you can test anything and learn everything from the people who matter most, your audience. Whether it's an ad campaign, a website prototype, or a brand new product feature, user testing helps you see and hear real reactions in just hours, not weeks. That means no guesswork and no wasted effort, just insights you can act on right away. Teams use user testing to move faster, make smarter decisions and craft experiences people truly love. Real people, real reactions, real fast. Learn more@usertesting.com propg support for the show comes from Crucible Moments, a podcast from Sequoia Capital. Every exceptional company story is defined by those high stake moments that risk the business but can lead to greatness. That's what Crucible Moments is all about. Hosted by Sequoia Capital's managing partner, Roelof Botha, Crucible Moments is returning for a brand new season and they're kicking things off with episodes on Zipline and Bolt, two companies with surprising paths to success. Crucible Moments is out now and available everywhere you get your podcasts and@Crucible Moments.com. listen to Crucible Moments today.
- [01:15]
B
Support for this show comes from Strawberry Me. Be honest. Are you happy with your job? Or are you stuck in one you've outgrown or never wanted in the first place? Sure, you can probably list the reasons for staying, but are they actually just excuses for not leaving? Let a career coach from Strawberry Me help you get unstuck. Discover the benefits of having a dedicated career coach in your corner. Go to Strawberry Me Unstuck to claim a special offer.
- [01:50]
A
Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Scott Galloway.
- [01:52]
B
And I'm Jessica Tarlov.
- [01:54]
A
Okay, Jess, in today's episode of Raging Moderates, we're discussing the races we're watching one week out until election Day. Why presidential contenders keep launching podcasts. I love that they've figured out that.
- [02:07]
B
That would be your favorite topic and.
- [02:10]
A
Kamala is leaving the door open. Oh, yay. Okay, it's time for banter. How are you, Jess? I don't know if it's the algorithm. I don't think it's just the algorithm. You are so on fire right now. I keep seeing these little clips of you and I'm. I'm fond of you and I think you're super smart. So I like the clips, but then I see like 11 billion people have liked it. You are. Are you the most popular? I don't follow the other four people you serve with, but are you the biggest on social media of Everyone on the phone.
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B
Oh my God.
- [02:43]
A
No, no.
- [02:44]
B
Are you kidding me? No. They have empires. But what is most exciting about a viral clip for me is that I have, I guess by extension figured out how to get you to text me. Because if you see that enough other people like me, then you're forced to pick up your phone.
- [03:04]
A
Yeah, I only want to hang out.
- [03:05]
B
With the cool kids because I feel closer to you now, which is what I've been searching for in life. No, my social media life is much, much, much smaller than the other co hosts of the five. But it is, it's interesting to see obviously what the algorithm does. Like you. You know, you're stuck in a, in a Jessica Tarlov loop at this particular moment, but because the social media companies have made it easy to monetize outrage and clicks, you see Republicans pumping it up too. Right. Because they want to call me like an idiot. So they're reposting it as well. And then it's just going further and further, which I assume is not really what they wanna do in general, but they wanna make money, so funding their kids, school tuition too.
- [03:55]
A
Whenever I have a clip go viral, a couple things happen. I hear from people from high school that I didn't know.
- [04:01]
B
Isn't that so nice?
- [04:02]
A
Yeah, it's nice, but it's sort of like we weren't friends, we didn't know each other, like, what's up?
- [04:07]
B
But now you're very cool and very smart.
- [04:09]
A
I went to a 2000-person high school, so. And then I'll hear from some distant cousin in Scotland or somewhere. That quick perusal of their social, they're clearly like raging alcoholics. And I'm like, I'm not sure I need to re establish connection with this person. I don't hear from the people I want to hear from when my clips go viral. I hear from people not necessarily the ones I want to hear from. Anyways, let's get into it. Our producer's getting angry. We're a week from election Day and three big races are defining the final stretch. In New York City, the mayor's race has turned into pure political drama. Andrew Cuomo and Curtis Silva are hammering front runner Zoran Mamdame, who's firing back by reminding voters of Cuomo scandals in Virginia and New Jersey. Abigail Spanberger and Mikey Sherrill are testing whether a centrist national security brand still wins in swing states, both leading slightly. But Trump's influence hangs over both races. And In California, Prop 50, the so called screw Trump measure, is surging on paper, it's about redistricting, but Democrats are selling it as payback against Trump and Texas Republicans. Jessica, can Cuomo's last minute appeal to Republican and independent voters close the gap? What do you think? What's your prediction for New York? You're on the ground there. What's the vibe?
- [05:23]
B
The vibe at the polls is older, which is what Andrew Cuomo wants. And it'll be interesting if this really does turn out. I mean, it's just early voting.
- [05:32]
A
It's like a no kings protest.
- [05:35]
B
A little older and whiter, definitely Jewish. You know, Mamdani's odds of winning were at 95% a couple days ago. It's down to 90% right now, which, you know, still seems like pretty good odds, but it is trending down. I, I think that Eric Adams dropping out had more of an impact than some folks expected. There was a new poll out from Suffolk University and Cuomo's now just down 10 points, which is still a lot of points, but moving in that direction. And he's winning voters age 45 plus and with seniors, he is plus four only plus one with the 45 to 54 year old bracket. So that it's basically, you know, break even. But it is moving in that direction, I think. I don't know, I don't want to be the person that says that. Somebody who had this kind of a historic primary win and seems to have all this enthusiasm. I'm sure you saw at least social clips of that rally that he had in Queens over the weekend with Bernie and aoc. I mean, that's a presidential looking rally. It's not a mayoral election rally. And part of that is that Bernie and AOC were there, of course. But there's so much vibe, so much enthusiasm going into this campaign. But vibe and enthusiasm doesn't always vote in the same way. This is something that happened to Bernie, right, in the 2016 primary. That there are a lot of people who are interested, politically active, but are not necessarily turning out for these things, are walking around wearing swag and they show up at the polls and they vote. And those people in the primary voted for Hillary Clinton and not Bernie Sanders. I think it would really kind of upend all of the, the regular thinking about how elections work to say that Andrew Cuomo was going to pull this out. But David Shore, who's an incredible poll star, elections analyst, numbers guy, he posted that Cuomo can win and may win and that is breathing new life into their campaign. They are acting like they are actually running for something which is nice to see. It's like a proof of life situation. Though I, I do want to note that some of the ways that it's manifesting itself, like the blatant Islamophobia that is flying around now, you know, people posting images of planes going into the Twin Towers and saying, you know, like, vote like your life depends on it. And I know that Cuomo, when he was on Sid Rosenberg's radio show, was not the one who said, you know, like, Mamdani would be happy about another 9, 11. Cuomo was trying to talk about. Can you imagine a scenario where someone, a 34 year old with no executive experience is doing this, but that is lighting people up and people are hearing that warning call that this is somebody for the folks that deal in Islamophobia, that they're conscious of that, but also a lot of people, Republicans, Sliwa supporters, big donors that are saying, we just can't have this guy. And Sliwa quit his radio show. Did you see this, like live on air, he had cats matitis on who owns the channel as well. And as his boss who told him to drop out, and he like, you know, did the thing, pulled his mic off and was like, f you, like, I'm not dropping out and cat matitis. Like a lot of powerful people in the city are scared about what a Mamdani administration would look like. What's your, your view from the other side?
- [09:05]
A
I have purposely, there's a, a quote I saw that was so resonant with me and it said, you don't have to have an opinion on everything. Every issue does not demand your judgment. And you get a little bit of a platform and a little bit of positive affirmation and you feel as if you have to weigh in on everything. And I've been infected with that. And I'm trying to be more disciplined lately about I don't have to have an opinion on everything. I don't have to weigh in. And the New York mayoral race. I'm not a New York resident, I'm a Florida resident living in London. I have very strong connections to New York because I teach at NYU and I lived there for 10 years. And not only that, I don't know if you felt this way, but I've had some of my Jewish friends weigh in and say, why aren't you more vocal about the race? Which is their way of saying, why aren't you more vocal against Mamdani? And I feel like not everything is about us Jews. Oh, I'm going to get shit for that, I feel like this is a race about, quite frankly, who can make sure the subways work and the trash is collected and that the city grows its tax base and continues to attract people that are the smartest, best and brightest so we can have an amazing city and that it's worth a 13% incremental tax rate. And I don't want the mayor, quite frankly, commenting on or going to Israel. I don't give a shit what they think. I mean, some of the things that Mamdame has said and the people he has endorsed, I would not, if I were a New York resident, I could not vote for him. I don't, I think some of the things he has said or the things he has endorsed, his refusal to call for Hamas to lay down their weapons. He highlights, you know, Palestinian people being killed, which is obviously horrific. The same day that Hamas pulls people out of their homes who are suspected of collaboration and executes them. Those are disqualifying for me. But also I also recognize that the mayoral race and where I think he won the race from an outsider standpoint, I'm good at business predictions. I'm terrible at political predictions. So my prediction is I don't think there's any way I can lose. I saw that rally you saw, I'm like, that kind of enthusiasm gets people to the polls in the rain when they're late for work. That gets the turnout. I don't see, quite frankly, how we can lose. But this has become so divisive. And what I say to my Jewish friends who don't live in New York is that, is this really your fight? And I don't think the mayor is going to single handedly promote or antagonize Jewish or Israeli interests. I don't think this is the hill we want to die on. And when I say we, I mean the diaspora here. And also I don't think it's fair to what has, you know, some of the allegations against him I think have been a little bit unfair. At the same time, like I said, a lot of the shit he said would be totally disqualifying for me and a member of our team who shall remain nameless. Summarized it. We have a mayoral race between a handsy 60, 70 year old and an anti Semite. That's where we are, you know, that this is just not a great place to be in, I think for New York voters. And also I don't think it helps that all these rich white people are coming out against them. I think they've done more, more for him than they've actually heard him, despite all their money. Your thoughts?
- [12:28]
B
I largely agree. I think, you know, I've been listening to a lot of what the rabbis are saying from major synagogues across the city, and they are deeply concerned about the impact that Mamdani will have on the city and the protection of Jewish life here. And we talked about this before that. The one question, if Mamdani had wanted to come on the pod, but he didn't. But what I would like to ask him is, let's pretend that you were mayor when the college protests are going on on Columbia's campus.
- [13:02]
A
Great question.
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B
What do you do differently?
- [13:04]
A
It's a great question, like how.
- [13:05]
B
And I think there, that opens up the door to explain his perspective, how he came to it, to also talk about civil rights infringement, which I definitely think happened to Jewish students on those campuses, and how he would have managed that. And I think that that would have gone a long way in kind of, you know, alleviating people's fears about this. I tend to agree with you, you know, like, watching the markets. And could Cuomo pull this off? I guess so. You know, David Shore would know better than I would. But what I'm concerned about is if that does miraculously happen, that Cuomo wins, what happens to the city? Because you have all of these working people, you know, for all the things that people are concerned about, that they want their mayor to do, the number one thing. And what he's been talking about is, can New York City become a place that working people can live and thrive in again? And if you look around at, you know, cost of living, you know, standard of living here in the city, it is not a good place to be if you are a working person. And his campaign has been focused on that. So if, you know, a bunch of older, wealthier people show up and stamp out that light, right, and basically say, you know, we're just going back to the old way of doing things. Someone that even in endorsements of Andrew Cuomo, like the Daily News endorsed him, but they said, you know, like, basically, he's. He's a bad guy, but he's better for this job. The New York Times had said the same thing, that. That further depresses people, you know, their mental health wise, certainly, but it's. It separates us into these buckets even more. And income inequality is one of the biggest problems that we're facing. And we basically just say, oh, you had a whole movement. Yeah, well, now you're going to show up and we're going to stamp that out too. I wanted to get your take though. So Virginia and New Jersey are very different races to what's going on in New York. You have two very moderate candidates and Mikey Cheryl and Abigail Spanberger, I think both will win. Mikey Cheryl's race will be a bit closer. Spanberger I think could be quite big, kind of, you know, close to 10 points in terms of her advantage. And she may very well pull the AG candidate, Jay Jones, the one who sent the violent text messages over the line. But we'll see about that. You know, a lot of people who have more moderate politics would like to talk about those races much more than they want to talk about Mamdani and what it says about the Democratic Party. So, you know, what are, what are your thoughts about that dichotomy?
- [15:44]
A
I agree with you to a certain extent. Those are more important races. Our producer's going to go crazy. I just want to make another comment about New York and then quite frankly, you just have deeper domain expertise about these races. So I want to get your view on them. Just circling back to New York for a second. There's a new Rosewood here in London and it's amazing and it's so wonderful and so nice and there's a new Carbone in it. It's amazing. The problem is you have to be rich to do anything to stay at the Rosewood or go to the restaurants there. I think New York is in a golden age. When I go to New York, I can't get over how good it is. I live in Soho or I have a place in Soho, new restaurants. I feel like post Covid the city shed its skin. I don't see very many homeless. I see new clubs, new members clubs. But here's the thing. I have money. And I think New York has become the Rosewood of cities. And that is, it's amazing. But when I first came to New York out of ucla, I lived with two roommates in a shitty one bedroom apartment. We used to pool our vouchers after work. We got a voucher for a car and a certain per diem of like 25 bucks. And between all of us, we could go downtown to the, I think it was called the Surf Club or the Shark Club. Or we could go to O and we could, you know, not making a ton of money, but making some money, have really fun lives. And I had friends who were artists, I had friends who were musicians playing backup music at jazz and they could dance between the Rangers drops and try and make a go of it. There's no Fucking way. Now there's only three types of people in Manhattan right now. You're either in tech, you got transferred here, or you work for Meta or Google or a technology company that's overfunded and they can pay you 2 to $300,000 a year. You're working for J.P. morgan or Goldman, you're in finance, or your parents are putting you through New York. There is no scrappiness. It's just not possible. And even the kids, you know, we talk a lot about income inequality and we tend to couch income inequality as someone who's like making $50,000 a year and their wife gets diagnosed with lung cancer and that's like, okay, congratulations. That now means your family's going bankrupt. Income inequality is creeping up the income ladder. And that is say you and your husband make really good livings in New York. You played by the rules, you're outstanding. You were great in high school, you were great in college. You went to an elite college, you worked your ass off, you got the right certification, made the right contacts, you got a great job. You're making 200 grand, your wife is making 300 grand, you're making a half a million bucks. You can't afford to live in New York. A person making 500 grand probably pays in New York, probably makes enough money to have an incremental tax rate of 40%. So that's 300. They're taking home $25,000. Say they go out on a limb and decide to have a kid. So they need a two bedroom, maybe a three bedroom. Their take home pay is $25,000 a month. That apartment is $15,000 a month. Childcare if you both want to work, because is do you realize the going rate right now for childcare of a person who's documented in New York is $150,000 a year? And good for them. I like to see people doing real work at paidwell. You can't live in New York unless you are literally. People ask me all the time, what's it like to live in New York and London? And I very cherishedly say it's amazing. Just make lubricate it with millions of dollars.
- [19:07]
B
Yeah, totally.
- [19:09]
A
It's nobody. And the thing is, no one feels sorry for the couple making a half a million or like you can make a mil. This is why I left in New York. I lived in New York and this was up until 2011. I was making, my partner was working at Goldman. I was starting to hit my stride professionally. Even though I was a professor, I was Starting to get speaking gigs and book things. We were making like 800 grand a year. And I thought, oh, my God, 800 grand a year. And on a regular basis, I would think, oh, we can't pay our credit card right away. Like, what? And we weren't living large. And I okay. And now it's even worse. I hear about an average one bedroom is $5500. I go in, I buy a drink somewhere, it's $24 for a makers and ginger at the places I go to. Like, how does a young person, I don't care. How does any young person that doesn't have their parents money live in New York? And the problem is that is bad for the. I don't think anyone has a birthright to live in New York. Right? You don't have a birthright to stay at the Rosewood. But the problem is New York's economy will not continue to thrive if it can't attract scrappy, energetic people with a diverse background. Our economy will become a butler economy, like London, where it's just a small group of service people servicing wealth made somewhere else. You need that mojo. You need scrappy, aggressive people who feel like they can make it in New York if they try hard and watch their budget. Those people are gone. This has become the most elite. You know, New York has become basically the Rosewood. And that is, it's amazing if you can afford it, but it's affordability really is a huge issue here. I'm meeting with, oh, I'll, I'll ask him if I can use his name. But I'm meeting with this iconic guy who's got way more resources and contacts than I do about what types of programs could potentially attract more young people and get them, you know, and make it affordable for them in New York. But you're. You make an exceptional living. Your husband makes a good living. Like, you're on the ground there. What's it like trying to get by in New York?
- [21:24]
B
Well, I'm getting by is not the right term to be using because we are certainly getting by very well and have a high standard of living. But it is the conversation that every single person in my demographic, every couple, every person in my demographic is having. Can we afford to stay here? Where could we live in the city where this would be okay to be on this salary, which is nerve wracking to think you have to keep it up right for decades. This isn't like, oh, I could have, you know, my heyday and then take it easier. Like, you have to be all Gas. Right. For as long as humanly possible. You have which I think this is one of the good things. You have a real kind of renaissance of the public school system because parents like us are moving into neighborhoods and rejuvenating these public schools and serving on the PTA is and making sure to donate and taking a really active role in the their kids lives like they would if they went to private school. So that's a good thing. And I love the idea of having these wonderful community schools that also service, you know, some kids who have less than like my daughters do. But it's incredibly nerve wracking. And I see this with like you talk about the city has to be a place for scrappy upstarts. Like all of the young people who do babysitting are exactly this demographic. Like they work. I have these two amazing girls who help us out, they work in fashion, get paid absolutely nothing. They told me that now when you go to bars, cocktail bars, that the bartender will split a drink for three of them. Like this is a known thing that is happening out. So he'll. But he'll make sure that. Or she will make sure that each of them have their own fun glass. Right. So that it looks like they had the whole drink. And they're pre gaming which has always been a thing. And you want to hang out with your friends before you go out, but more now out of necessity versus what it was before that it was just a hang where they're thinking we can probably only afford one drink if we're going to go out at night. And they babysit every night of the week that they can get a job. And part of that is fun. They're young, they're 25, but they go out at midnight. Then instead of going out with your friends at, you know, 9, 10 o' clock waiting for those parents to come home. So it's definitely a different scene than it was when I was growing up and my parents who were also doing very well, you know their panic about how do we pay $25,000 a year for the school that I went to, it is now $65,000. It was 25,000 when I went. It is 65,000 now and you get financial aid. If you earn $350,000, that qualifies you for financial aid.
- [24:12]
A
Yeah. When we left New York in 2011 and the thing that drove us out of the city was my son who at the time was speech delayed by the way, everything's worked out. He's now applying to elite schools. We'll See if he gets in. But everything worked out, but he was speech delayed and we applied to seven schools and none of them would let my four year old go to school for $58,000 a year. It was 58,000 and I was living in faculty housing because couldn't afford not to live in faculty housing. But the apartment we had before that was $12,000 a month. We moved to Delray beach and blessed I can do that. I commuted to New York during the week. The school there, this lovely little school called Gulfstream. $12,000 a year and we got a three bedroom on the intercoastal for $5,500 a month. I mean, and granted a lot of that price disparity has been arbed out by all these people discovering Texas and Florida and moving down there and the prices have gone up there. But Mamdani's genius is the same as Trump's genius and that is they focused on affordability and we aren't talking about major structural issues. To increase the stock of housing, to put more money in young people's pockets and to stop constantly sequestering and creating essentially the greatest legislative theft in history. That just tilts the entire economy all towards a small number of corporations and pockets. And it's creating income inequality even in the wealthiest cities where unless you're in the 0.1%, you just can't, you know, that dream is out of, is out of reach. Anyways, we really have gone over here. I'm going to ask you to make a quick comment on Spanberger and Sheryl and those races.
- [25:56]
B
I think that they're going to go well for Democrats. But in Virginia, what I think is going to be even more interesting is the Virginia House of Delegates. So their legislative body, 100 members right now, Dems have a 51 to 49 advantage. Those are generic Democrats, right? They're not, they're not a big flashy campaigns running very local races. So do Democrats have a big night next Tuesday in the Virginia House of Delegates? I think will say more about the midterms necessarily than anything else. Like what is the real mood on the ground? And it is Virginia, which is, you know, suffering big time from the shutdown. And we should just quickly know Prop 50, the California redistricting law will be on the ballot next Tuesday. Republicans have basically given up. They said they're going to raise a hundred million dollars. They've raised about 10 million. Odds of it passing is up to 57%. It was at 51% in September. But it is setting off this Chain reaction of redistricting wars. Hakeem Jeffrey is Speaker of the House. Was in Illinois yesterday talking to legislators there about carving up their map as much as they can. Virginia, surprise that they're getting in on this. Maryland can add a seat, but you see Trump pushing in Texas. Now in Indiana, I think that the Republicans could net up to 19 seats. So we're trying to find a way to counteract that. But Prop 50 would go a long way towards that. It would get nine seats in, in one go. So positive.
- [27:25]
A
Have you seen any analysis of how this likely all nets out? Like who wins, who loses? Or is this just a bunch of motion with no difference where we, the Democrats and the Republicans all end up with sort of the same ratio? Who do you think wins and loses? If everybody of is able to ram.
- [27:39]
B
This through, I, I think then it goes back to about net zero and Democrats should have a good midterms. I'm feeling more optimistic about that. But it is good to see the ruthless spirit on the Democratic side. You know, these are not normal times. And in most of these scenarios, like in Virginia and California, they're not blowing up the bipartisan or independent redistricting commission forever. They're basically saying we need to get out of the Trump era with, you know, with our shirts essentially, and we can't stand by and let this happen. Which I think is exactly the kind of fighter mentality that Democrats have to have. But the last couple of weeks, it has started to look much more rosy for Democrats in the midterms. So I think that's a good thing.
- [28:27]
A
I mean, it looks like mom, Dhumi, Spanberger and Cheryl are all like polymarket and calcium at 90 plus percent each. I mean, yeah, it feels like these are sort of done deals. And also, keep in mind, or what I like to remind people is the media always tries to turn everything into a race such that you need something to talk about, Scott, and they'll tune in the next day and click on it and then we have, we have content. Also, I think that, I think Prop 50 is going to be another feather in Newsom's cap. I think that right now he's seen as the, the first Democrat who is effectively pushing back and everybody else, he's not afraid to do stupid shit on social media that gets clicks. He's not afraid to say, very.
- [29:16]
B
Provocative.
- [29:17]
A
Yeah, everyone's looking for someone not to just look amazed and say, good sir, that's it. You have insulted our. This is a guy shoving back. And I think everybody is desperate for that right now.
- [29:31]
B
Totally.
- [29:31]
A
All right, Jess, let's take a quick break. Stay with us.
- [29:34]
B
Foreign.
- [29:41]
A
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- [32:21]
B
I love quints. I recently got an outfit for a wedding I have coming up in November. They make shopping for each season really easy. All their styles are so classic. So yeah, can't recommend them enough.
- [32:33]
A
There you have it. Find all your fall staples at Quint's. Go to quints.com Prof. G for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go Canada. That's Quinc to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com profg welcome back. Politicians Can't Stop Launching Podcasts God, I love this story. Gavin Newsom's this is Gavin Newsom, which I've actually been on, now pulls in about 1.6 million downloads a month, putting him just behind Ted Cruz, whose Verdict with Ted Cruz leads the pack with roughly 1.8 million. From Ron DeSantis's policy heady Florida man briefings to Andy Bashir's Ubu Boo self Care sessions, the Politician podcast boom is officially here. No fewer than six potential 2028 contenders now host their own shows. Jess is launching a podcast, the New writing a book ahead of a presidential run.
- [33:32]
B
Well, I think they do both. I think it's as much press and possibility to make money as possible. But I do feel like launching your own podcast versus showing up on the right podcasts is something to consider. Like if you have a podcast that nobody listens to. And it looks like besides Newsom and Ted Cruz, who has a podcast called the Verdict that's super popular, it feels a bit like shouting into the void. And I don't know if it addresses the issues that we had in the 2024 election because it wasn't like, can you have a conversation with Jamie Harrison about the state of the Democratic Party? It was, can you hang with Andrew Schultz? Like, can you go on Rogan? And I don't know if we have necessarily solved that problem, but it was funny to see and it reminded me of like my route to raging moderates. You know, I showed up on Prof. G, right? We had conversations and then I was like oh, maybe we could make something out of this. And I feel like that is a. A safer route or a more successful route to having a pod empire. I'm sure you have more thoughts about this topic than any other topic we've talked about.
- [34:46]
A
Well, look, I. I think. I think podcasts elected. I think the manosphere and podcast elected Trump, and I think they've all figured that out. And newsome again. And let me just come out. I'm a huge fan of the governors. I think people. Or Governor Newsoms, I think people consistently underestimate him. I think his heart's in the right place. And I think we're a highly looksist nation, and I want the Democrat to win. And I think that you need a tall, white, heterosexual man right now, maybe not white, to take back the White House. And by the way, I don't think that's the way the world should be. I think if you just had a litmus test around, if you just had AI say who's been most consistent and strongest on policy and who's the smartest, I think Senator Klobuchar would be right there, and I think Governor Whitmer would be right there, or we would have had Secretary Clinton as president. I think, unfortunately, we're in such a looksist, sexist nation when it comes to the top job that I'm just focused on who can get elected. And I hate giving in to the worst angels of our society. But I think that another huge feather in his cap is going to be. This is not only the Prop 50, but again, who was first in political podcasts? I think it was Senator Cruz, actually. But Governor, the governor is the first.
- [36:16]
B
One on our side.
- [36:17]
A
Yeah, the governor was the first Democrat. And not only that, what did he do? He brought on Charlie Kirk and of course, all the Democrats in the far left. Why are you platforming him? Hair on fire. Smart move. Smart move to bring on these guys. Pulls them towards the center, makes them more electable for. I don't even think he's focused on. I think he's playing the long game. I don't think he's focused on the primary. I think he's already focused on the general.
- [36:38]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's going to be a tough primary, but no doubt there'll be.
- [36:42]
A
And not only that, if I had to bet on any one person, it would be tbd. I think it's someone we're not even talking about right now. But anyways, look, podcasting elected Donald Trump. And if you look at. They used to think it was Knocking on doors. I found that knocking on doors, I've only done it once. I did it for Secretary Clinton in 2016. That's when I knew she was going to lose because I had about. I was in a neighborhood that would you describe as lower middle class in Florida, kind of inland a bit. And about two thirds, two thirds black families, one third white families, and the white families, half of them, I banged on the door, pretty much slammed the door in my face. They were so pro Trump. And then in the Democrat households and especially the black families would invite me in, couldn't be nicer. And oh yeah, we're definitely voting for Secretary Clinton. And then I would ask them, do you know where your polling place is? And they look at each other and they'd say no. And I'm like, they're not going to vote. This is pretty late in the game. I'm like, they're not going to vote. They like her, but they didn't have that. Having the door slammed in your face is energy. That means that person is going to vote for the other person. The technology that clearly no longer works is door knocking. Supposedly it was 10 to 1 Secretary Clinton or Vice President Harris to Trump and all the swing states on door knocking in her favor. That technology doesn't work. And then the next technology that everybody thought worked was cable news, right? And local news. And what it ends up is that the average viewer of an MSNBC show is a 70 year old white woman and guess what? She's already figured out who she's voting for. Whereas the average listener of a podcaster, if you were going to distill it down to a person, it's a 34 year old mixed race male and he's a swing voter because he votes based on economic issues, specifically who he thinks will be better for the economic well being of him and his family. And that issue ping pongs back and forth between Republicans and Democrats based on who has a more compelling economic plan. It shouldn't by the way folks. Democrats consistently grow jobs faster and the economy consistently performs better under Democrats. But anyways, it's another talk show but podcasting. The reason why we can call literally any. When I started this Joey Bag of Donuts Operation 7, eight years ago, I couldn't get arrested, much less get. I had trouble getting my neighbors to come on my podcast and now we can call any presidential candidate. They will come on within the week, any of them. And except for mom Dhame. I think he was scared of us for some reason. I think he was the first person who turned us down anyway, that because they realize this is the.
- [39:38]
B
When he's mayor, maybe he'll change his mind.
- [39:40]
A
This is the new medium. And if you think about, you know, this. This pod gets 150 to 200,000 downloads per episode. Another hundred. Call it a quarter of a million impressions every pod you do two week. That's 2 million. 70% of the core demographic, or say 70% of 200,000 or 140,000 are in the court demo. There may be three or four shows in all the cable news that get more in the core demo than that. And we're not the biggest political podcast. It just gives you a sense of how powerful this medium has become. So absolutely makes a ton of sense for them. And not only that, the format is. I just saw this clip, and I hate to say this again because I like her as a person and I'm rooting for her and I think she's a good journalist, but I just saw a clip from Abby Phillips where I forget, the woman from the Young Turks was arguing with some guy about Mumdali.
- [40:35]
B
Anna Kasparin. Yeah, on. Yeah, on Abby's show.
- [40:39]
A
And I literally thought, this is the equivalent of an ice raid. It is just so depressing and disgusting, these two people screaming at each other. It's like they should call that show how to Feel Stupider. Watch this and Feel More Stupid.
- [40:51]
B
I'm sure that'll be in the new round of CNN marketing.
- [40:54]
A
Well, it's just they've. Unfortunately, the algorithms pick up on it. The algorithms love that kind of conflict. It's like the algorithms are like a Tyrannosaurus rex. They're drawn towards movement and violence. And you hear two, I assume, intelligent people just screaming at each other, no respect for each other, no decorum. And this great news brand is a fucking food fight. Jesus Christ, CNN. No wonder your ratings are down 34 fucking percent.
- [41:20]
B
Well, anyways, can I say two things about what you mentioned? So, first of all, on the door knocking front, one, I guess recent because it was in the last year, but online, back and forth with Charlie Kirk was about door knocking, because I boasted on air about that 10 to 1 ratio, and he basically just owned me and was like, it doesn't matter, Jessica. You don't know it yet, but it doesn't matter. And lo and behold, he was correct. The second thing I wanted to ask you about vis a vis podcasting is the length of these conversations. Because you see a network like the Midas Touch Network, which regularly is the number one pod you know, ahead of Joe Rogan. And their interviews are all capped to kind of 12 to 15 minutes. We've been doing a lot more of this on The Raging Modern YouTube channel. Please subscribe. We would love to have you as part of the community, but that is the amount of time that people actually want to be paying attention or can pay attention. And so this idea of loading up their feeds with hour long conversations, sometimes two, three hour long conversations, does not jive with the way that American life works right now and also our diversity of interests that people want to listen to. A political conversation. They also, you know, have a favorite person who talks about cooking. They have a books podcast, they have a fitness podcast that they're into. So what do you think about that with the length? Because this is a problem. We've talked about this with politicians that they, they go on for too long and sometimes, you know, making a more impactful 10 minutes is going to have a lot more value to you than 35 minutes where we glean two things that were actually important out of the whole, the whole diatribe.
- [43:12]
A
One of the things I like about podcasting is that the vibe is, and that is on social media, I don't give people the benefit of the doubt. And it's one of the things I don't like about myself as a person. And the algorithms have trained me to be a ter and social media. And I don't like that because I don't, I don't, I don't aspire to be that person. The reason I really enjoy podcasting is generally speaking, the vibe on podcasting is you give the guests the benefit of the doubt. You don't get in their face. You don't try and embarrass them. You don't look for your gotcha moment on Fox or CNN that you hope will go viral. You let them run, right? You don't interrupt them or you don't interrupt them a lot. It's not a food fight. And you, the format is, it can go an hour, sometimes two hours. Lex Friedman broke new ground here. So did Joe Rogan. Two and three hour podcast. Let your guest get through what they're saying. Don't, as much as you want to take a clip and take it out of context, give them the benefit of the doubt. Joe Rogan gets a lot of shit for spreading misinformation, which I think he has done, but he also, in my view, he gives his guests the benefit of the doubt. When I was asked if Vice President Harris should go on Joe Rogan, I'M like, there's nothing. If she had to take a train there or hitchhike there, she should do it. There is no better use of her time to get down there. Because Joe, who has, I would describe as center right, or some people would say, very red pilled, he gives his guests the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't want to embarrass them for a moment. And I really like that about podcasting. And it fits well to politicians. The problem with these, these politicians, though, is that they're worried about saying something off color, which is exactly the wrong attitude right now. If they're out there being human, speaking like a real fucking person, and occasionally say something indelicate, it doesn't matter anymore because Trump has given them cloud cover. But they were born of a genre where you needed to be starched, battle tested, politically correct, offend as few people as possible. And how do you do that? You say nothing. You saying nothing of any real meaning other than rhetorical flourish. We need to be focused on the people and we need to take the political heat. Okay, fine. Now what, what happens on these podcasts? And quite frankly, we've seen it in our numbers. These guys brighten up a room by fucking leaving it. This conversation here will get much more engagement, much more downloads than the top contenders for president. Because when they come on, it's like, you know, it's like dogs watching television. It's just sort of like, okay, I know there's something going on there, but I don't know, like, they don't say anything. They don't. I do appreciate occasionally Newsom will mix it up. I think some of the Republican candidates aren't scared to mix it up a little bit, but they don't sound like real people. And you could go to their website and see the same goddamn speech over and over and over again. Also, the other thing about politics is it does get a lot of viewership, but advertisers avoid it because it's very controversial. The most heartening thing I've seen is the guys from Midas Touch. They're an inspiration. I love how they just came out of nowhere. Young group of people getting huge download numbers. I would argue that the podcast ecosystem right now is sending very positive signals for the Democratic side of the aisle because Republicans have dominated podcasts for the last decade. And in the last year, you have seen some very, very vibrant Democratic voices radically ascend to the top of their respective category. I think it's very encouraging. But be clear, folks, this is, and I'm talking my own book a little bit. But I've also, you know, I've been in this game for a while. The this is the new arbiter of the next president. This will be it is podcast. And who can articulate actual fucking programs? Democrats. Your thoughts, Jess.
- [47:14]
B
Actual fucking programs. Democrats. Final thought.
- [47:17]
A
Final thought. There we go.
- [47:18]
B
Take a break.
- [47:19]
A
Let's take a break.
- [47:19]
B
Those ad dollars in.
- [47:20]
A
There you go. Thanks. Jesse Vox Creative support for this show comes from AWS Generative AI Accelerator Program.
- [47:40]
C
My name is Tom Elias. I'm one of the co founders at Bedrock Robotics. Bedrock Robotics is creating AI for the built world. We are bringing advanced autonomy to heavy equipment to tackle America's construction crisis. There is a tremendous demand for progress in America through civil projects, yet half a million jobs in construction remain unfilled. We were part of the 2024 AWS Gen AI accelerator program. As soon as we saw it, we knew that we had to apply. The AWS Gen AI Accelerator program supports startups that are building ambitious companies using gen AI and physical AI. The program provides provides infrastructure support that matches an ambitious scale of growth for companies like Bedrock Robotics. Now, after the accelerator, about a year later, we announced that we raised about $80 million in funding. We are scaling our autonomy to multiple sites. We're making deep investments in technology and partners. We have a lot more clarity on what autonomy we need to build and what systems and techniques and partners we need to make it happen. It's the folks that we have working all together inside Bedrock Robotics. But it's also our partners like Amazon really all trying to work together to figure out what is physical AI and how do we affect the world in a positive way.
- [48:55]
A
To learn more about how AWS supports startups, visit Startups AWS Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is with thumbtack. You don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app download today. What are you hoping for today in the founders? Scrappy, traction oriented grinders and hustlers who will blow through every brick wall in this building to get to where they need to be. Welcome to the pitch season 14 where startup founders raise millions and listeners can invest on this season of the show. 10 VCs, 7 startups with one shot to build the company of their dreams. Oh my God. We built the entirely wrong product. Two shots to build the company of their dreams with that intro. Let's go. Season Season 14 is available now wherever you listen to podcasts, so subscribe to the pitch so you don't miss it. This season is presented by Adobe. Welcome back. Before we go, Vice President Harris says she's not done yet. In an interview over the weekend, Harris told the BBC she's possibly eyeing another run for president in 2028, saying she still believes America will see a woman in the White House in her grand niece's lifetime for sure. She brushed off polls putting her behind everyone from Gavin Newsom to Dwayne the Rock Johnson and blasted Trump as a tyrant who's proven her warnings right. Gotta give it to her. She was right about that. Her comments come as former Biden press secretary Karine Jean Pierre publicly cuts ties with the party, calling its treatment of Biden a betrayal. Okay. She's now an independent, saying Democratic leaders abandoned a decent man who led through crisis. A very decent old man who had no business running for president again. Anyways, thoughts? Jess thought the comeback. What do you think?
- [51:04]
B
I didn't read her comments as being as suggestive of her actually doing this as people wanted us to be. It was an interview with the BBC. British journalists are awesome. Always. Or I should say usually, maybe not always. And was really pushing her. But it felt like more of the same. Like, I'm not done yet. I'm not closing any doors. You know, I'm here to talk about this now and hopefully sell more copies of my book. I don't think that Kamala Harris is going to be on the 2028 stage. I. I just don't. I think that it is going to be very hard for anybody closely associated at least with Biden to be the candidate in 28. And it is going to be a race for these potential or these hopeful nominees to figure out a way to backtrack on comments they may have made in the past about Biden's fitness or ability to do the job for a.
- [52:05]
A
Second term, do you think that's gonna hurt Newsom? Do you think that's gonna haunt him?
- [52:08]
B
I think that the fact that he's out there so much right now and does have Prop 50 going for him, and then he'll find something else, right? He's gonna find another issue that he can lead on is going to go a long way to undoing that. But, you know, Newsom's gonna have to deal with the record in California, just like all of them are going to. Josh Shapiro has a great record to defend. He'll be out there doing it, Whitmer, Westmore, etc. So I'm not that concerned about Kamala being the nominee. But this Karine Jean Pierre book tour, I, I'm sure that you haven't seen as much of it as I have because they love to shove it in my face on the five how badly it's going. But the easy thing is is that I also think it's as bad as they do. I mean she is being met with hostility in even the safest of places like the View is dressing her down. About this, her New Yorker interview. I know you don't have a ton of time on your hands, but if you want to see a proverbial murder, go and read her New Yorker interview. It gets revealed that the subheading of her book, which was a look inside a broken White House, she says this about Trump and not about the Biden White House, even though the book is about her time as press secretary and what happened in, you know, those final throes of the campaign and how offended she was that they would treat Biden so badly. Anyway, it's a total head scratcher and I don't know what would be next for her.
- [53:38]
A
She worked for a narcissist who put his own ego ahead of the country, full stop. Good man. His legacy will be buried next to Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Senator Feinstein as people whose poor judgment and ego cost America dearly and absolutely put a terrible punctuation mark on their legacy. The vice president's book was not well received. It was basically the reviews I read were why basically she should have titled it why was everyone Else's fault that I Lost. And so I don't. You're right. I think it's really a shame because if you look at the Biden presidency, it was a successful presidency.
- [54:23]
B
Legislatively. Yeah.
- [54:25]
A
The Infrastructure act, the pulling us back from COVID the economy did well. You know, I think he doesn't get nearly enough credit for October 7th. His response? I think it was two carrier strike forces immediately deployed to the Mediterranean that told Iran to sit the fuck down. I mean people forget that Hamas never thought they could defeat the idf. What they were hoping to do was provide inspiration and some people would argue it was pre planned that other entities, including Iran, including Hezbollah, would start a multi front war against Israel, which theoretically could have been successful. And instead Biden immediately, no questions asked, deployed the firepower of Great Britain and France in the form of our US Carrier strike forces, specifically the Gerald R. Ford. And no one was going to fuck with those weapons of war and Biden, no questions asked. And he took a lot of shit from the far left wing of his party for his unwavering, what I thought was unravering support, at least initially. And then they started getting mealy mouth and then they started trying to have it both ways. Anyways, I don't mean to relitigate this, people.
- [55:39]
B
Remember the last thing that you did, right?
- [55:41]
A
That's 100%.
- [55:43]
B
So maybe in time. But I don't. You know, he's older.
- [55:47]
A
I always like to draw from our conversations. A hack, a life hack. And one life hack I have, I think, discovered is that there's a really interesting study done on men who are getting and women who are getting colonoscopies. And what they did was they asked people how pleasant or unpleasant the colonoscopy was when they left, when basically it was 30 minutes and it's fairly uncomfortable. And then the other ones, they did it for 40 minutes, but the last 10 minutes they did nothing. And the people who went 40 minutes, but the last 10 Minutes kind of nothing happened. It wasn't uncomfortable at all. Said it was a much better colonoscopy. In other words, the last 10 minutes of anything, as you just pointed out, have a disproportionate amount of impact. And so what is the lesson? When you leave a job, you want to be gracious. Try and resist the temptation to stick up the middle finger on your way out. I've had employees, I've seen people who were outstanding work so hard, and they weren't nice to their coworkers on the way out. And it literally ruins their legacy. Also, when you're at a social event, when you're at a party, you want to be super fucking gracious and charming. The last five minutes, that is everything. Go around, thank people, you know, try and end on a really positive note. And also in media, I will cut interviews off early when I know we could go another five or 10 good minutes. If there's a really good moment, I'm like, that's where we end it.
- [57:16]
B
I got to be remembered for that. So I'm not gonna roll the dice and do another five or 10 minutes.
- [57:21]
A
There you go.
- [57:21]
B
You want your high note. You want to be the good colonoscopy.
- [57:24]
A
That's exactly right. But I didn't figure that out till later in Life. The last five or 10 minutes are kind of are as important as the first. You know, five years at a job. The first three hours on a date. The first. You know, the first three hours, you're at a. You're. You're at a social event.
- [57:43]
B
Anyways, so is Irish goodbyeing okay? Because my husband likes to do that, and I take, like, 900 hours to say goodbye. And in our. If we ever get divorced, that will be in the papers. The irreconcilable differences will be our exit strategy.
- [57:57]
A
So this is a do as I say, not as I do, because I am like your husband.
- [58:02]
B
Yeah.
- [58:02]
A
I cannot.
- [58:03]
B
I've seen you do it.
- [58:04]
A
Yeah, I like to just melt into the night. But here's the thing. I already have money, and I'm close to death, so I'm not trying to build a career. Everybody, this is advice for people who are trying to build their careers. It's too late for me, Jess. It's too late for me. I'm trying to help the young people out there. All right? Anyways, I think that's. That's the note we want to end on. And by the way, Jess, you are just killing it. You are just killing it. I hope that all of this isn't taking a toll on you, because you are going behind enemy lines, and you are just kicking ass and taking names.
- [58:37]
B
Thank you. I thrive off of how much people hate me, what I've moved on to.
- [58:42]
A
I'm balanced out by how many people love you and appreciate you, which I also see online. That's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to raging moderates, Jess. Have a great rest of the week.
- [58:51]
B
You too.