A (2:25)

I do the pub part. I'm not good at the outdoor. I'm the great indoorsman.

B (2:28)

I don't really. You sit inside, even on a day like this.

A (2:31)

Yeah, I don't like culture, I don't like the outdoors. Just Netflix, edibles, bar, boom, boom, boom, check, check, check. That's. Yeah, no.

B (2:42)

You need the vitamin D, though.

A (2:44)

What's the weather like in New York right now?

B (2:45)

Actually, it's real. Well, it's weird. I thought we were in fall. I had my cute sweaters out and it's like 80 degrees. I heard it's warm. Yeah. You know what it's like when you're like, you're not full sweat, but you're like a little. A little. Like some drops are happening and you see like the little back sweat on other people, which, I mean, I shouldn't be in, you know, whatever. We all look at other people anyway. It's hot here, it's hot here, and I'm ready for fall.

A (3:14)

I have an oddly high tolerance for sweating. I don't sweat very easily. It's one of the few attractive things about me.

B (3:22)

But the hormones come in the sweat.

A (3:24)

People are like, yeah, trust me. There's whatever the pheromone is that says, I need to get away from this guy. I have that. All right, today we're talking about Trump's potentially illegal takeover of liberal cities, a possible ceasefire deal between Hamas and Israel, and why the manosphere is breaking up with Trump. All right, let's get into it. The Trump administration is facing a legal standoff over its push to deploy National Guard troops to Democrat led cities, including Chicago and Portland. Illinois and Oregon have sued, calling the deployments patently unlawful. And a federal judge recently blocked troops from going to Portland, calling the president's claims about unrest simply untethered to the facts. Meanwhile, White House aide Stephen Miller insists the administration has other options to send federal resources, framing the situation as a fight against what he calls domestic terrorism. Jess, with polls showing most voters disapprove of the guard deployments, could these actions backfire politically for Trump?

B (4:21)

I think we need to reassess what politically means for Trump. So, like, are the Republicans going to lose the midterms? Sure. I think that that should happen, and historically, that is what happens. I hope that it's a decent sized majority and not just a couple of seats in our direction. But, like, that's one thing and then there's politically backfire in the. Are we going to have Americans all over the country in the streets, like, where Maybe not every day. But you have a lot of no Kings protests which are happening far too sporadically I think for the overreach that this government is, you know, putting upon us on a daily basis. Certainly if you live in one of their target areas like in a Portland or Chicago, Los Angeles. And I'm not sure that the anger that the, that you get in the conversations with people about what's going on is translating into these tangible events that the administration is going to have to take notice of. Like the courts are doing their jobs and they're ruling against him, you know, left, right and center. But then they find another way to get to where they're going. And Stephen Miller is very crafty, right. And Russ Vote is very crafty. And I'm kind of surprised having watched, watched a ton of footage of what is going on in Chicago. You know, like I'm not sure if you saw this video, but two ICE officers got out of a regular car, like just an SUV and are trying to cuff a migrant or I presume was a migrant. And the everyone got out of their cars, started filming them and screaming at them and eventually after like seven, eight minutes, they gave up. Right. So like that's what life is like in Chicago right now. And I, you know, walking through downtown New York City and you know, we're like minded and kind of akin cities right to Chicago. And it's like, you know, that people are on their phones calling people, texting people, saying I can't believe he's doing this or that. But you feel like the moment should be bigger I guess in the, in the rest of the country. And I'm not feeling that yet. And so the politics of an election is one thing, but the politics of how the Americans populace writ large responds to an authoritarian power grab by the Trump administration has not been severe enough for me.

A (6:58)

Yeah, it's interesting. I remember someone saying they were outraged at the lack of outrage on an issue five or 10 years ago. And just a quick call out, we just got off with Governor J.B. pritzker, Governor of Illinois, discussing this exact issue. And for those of you who want to see that and other quick takes, please go to our Raging Moderates YouTube channel and subscribe. But it's interesting, it's difficult to figure out where the red line is. And what's interesting is that the attempt to what appeared, what felt like the censorship of a late night talk show host appeared to foment more outrage than people being literally rounded up by people in masks. I would have not guessed that. I would have Not. I would have thought that people would see. I mean, let's just provide some context here. They call them undocumented workers. These people have documents like no tomorrow. They have phone contracts. They have driver's licenses. They have insurance agreements. They have W2s. They have Social Security numbers. Yeah, yeah. They have tax payment stubs. They file their taxes because we want to pay their taxes. They have bank accounts such that we can. American banks can. Can make money off of the float. They have credit cards issued by. Credit card by Comerica and Visa such that they can get their 2 or 3%. They have documents coming out of their asses. And speaking of asses, these are the people that have been wiping grandma's ass such that you can afford to keep her at home and such you can afford to take your wife out to eat because restaurants are much less expensive. And you can have a home for 400,000 instead of 700,000. Because, folks, domestic workers will no longer work outside. They just won't. As someone who has renovated a bunch of homes, the only domestic workers who will now have anything to do with home construction, as far as I can tell, are plumbers and electricians. If you go outdoors, it's all immigrants. Slash, I would imagine, undocumented workers. And we have let this go on for 40 years because it's ultimately, at the end of the day, one of the most flexible, economically prosperous workforces in history. Now, did we take it too far and let a quarter of a million come across the border and raise their hand and say asylum and let them in during December of 23 under the Biden administration? Absolutely. But to see this now, to see people in masks rounding up gardeners, housekeepers, restaurant workers, people who've been here 10, 20 years. And also, my understanding is a non zero number of citizens.

B (9:38)

Yeah.

A (9:39)

And it takes. They have to be incarcerated for 72 hours before they finally work through the system and they get released. I went to this, one of these high end Masters of the Universe conferences, and I met kind of a household name anchor. And this person said their partner had gone, had left the country. Not because their partner wasn't a citizen, this person is, but had migrated from another country and had serious anxiety about them or someone in their family being rounded up incorrectly.

B (10:09)

Right.

A (10:09)

So this is just creating a vibe that is so unhealthy and so ugly. And I would argue in terms of national security that this is just such an enormous fucking distraction that we're deploying our troops. I like using our troops aggressively. I don't think there's any reason to spend a trillion dollars on the military unless you're going to actually use it. I don't think it's just a deterrence force. But instead of deploying troops to Portland, shouldn't we be figuring out a peacekeeping force in Gaza? Shouldn't we be providing hardware and the ability to launch long range Tomahawk missiles into the oil infrastructure in Russia? Instead, we have these guys at a donut shop in Portland. We have our troops. By the way, I've heard anyone who talks to our troops, not ice, but our troops. The troops don't know what the fuck they're doing there. They are not happy about this ice, unfortunately, when you tell guys, hey, do you want to abuse immigrants and get to wear a mask, that is a whistle for some very strange individuals. Your thoughts?

B (11:08)

Yes, totally. I mean, you're wondering what like the proud boys and Oath Keepers and those types of people could be doing in the year 2025. Taking that $50,000 bonus to get to sign up and go work for ice, I think would be pretty high on that list. And you're absolutely correct about the rounding up of American citizens. We have a lawsuit out of Alabama. An American citizen who has been arrested not once but twice, a construction worker who even had real ID to present. I know rich people in New York City who haven't bothered to get down to the DMV to get their real IDs, but this guy, totally compliant with the law, has his ID even. They don't care. So that's that lawsuit out, out of Alabama. We'll see what happens there. You had the raid on the south side of Chicago, that apartment complex where they're using Blackhawk helicopters and they're pulling American citizens and allegedly Trend members out of their beds as if they are the same. There are kids on the street, unclothed, partially clothed, zip tying these kids together. I'm sure there was some bad going on in that apartment complex too. But it is a complete infringement on your constitutional rights that they can just show up and haul you out of your bed. There is no reason, having watched the interviews, that these people who live in the complex are giving that anyone who works for ICE or CPB who was executing this thought that those people were undocumented. Those are people who have lived on the south side of Chicago their entire lives. And yeah, I'm surprised there isn't more outrage and that it is not being channeled in the right direction. And you're also completely right to highlight the fact that like there's real crime going on in this country, and that we are moving people off of investigating drug smuggling, sexual exploitation and organized crime to redirect them to this effort. Because Stephen Miller thinks that we need to arrest 3,000 people a day, because that was just some number that he came up with. And we're for the pro law enforcement party. It's a complete farce. I don't know if you saw this as well. Like, Donald Trump didn't even know that his administration had taken $187 million out of new York's counterterrorism budget. Kathy Hokel had to call Trump, tell him what happened, said he had no idea that this had happened. I mean, I understand he is technically in charge. He is the president. I have accepted it. This is not a case of tds, but he is not the one running this ship. Stephen Miller is running the ship. Russ Vote is running the ship. And they're not even bothering to tell him about things that they don't think he needs to know or things that might bother him. I mean, the readout from meetings like when Schumer and Jeffries went in to talk about the shutdown is like he didn't even know the details about the ACA. Premiums going up 100 average of 114%. The guy lives in this curated tiny bubble where they only show him clips and TV segments that will reaffirm their point of view or their view of the world. And they don't for. For the guy that's out there all the time, you know, man of the people, he has no exposure to the realities on the ground. He's posting about how rich the farmers are. I mean, these soybean farmers are in complete economic freef, having a panic attack, and on top of it, don't want the bailout. They want to be able to just make a living through their hard work as they could just a year ago.

A (14:45)

Yeah, I don't know. I. I don't have as much empathy for farmers. I think they were out of business 20 years ago. They just don't know it. I think they've been uneconomic in this notion of this cartoon of the family farm. It's mostly corporate farms who are economically unviable. And also farmers voted en masse for Trump. And the joke is, well, I voted for racism, not for tariffs. Well, boss, you were the same people as a group that were just outraged at a bailout of student loan borrowers, but seem to now have your hand out. And guess what, folks? Your business isn't coming back. China has established supply chains with Argentina and Brazil around soybeans now. And burning your crops, quite frankly and unfortunately, is probably the right thing. And I don't want to mock anyone's economic despair, but quite frankly, what did you think you were gonna get anyways with that ugly night?

B (15:38)

Why'd you have to inject reality into my little soybean rant?

A (15:41)

There you go. Let's take a. Let's take a quick break. Stay with us.

C (15:49)

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A (17:01)

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B (18:33)

Well, I think before we get into the deal, I mean, we're recording this on October 7th. It's the two year anniversary of that horrific terrorist attack that killed nearly 1200 Israelis. 250 taken hostage. And in the two years since then, it's reported that 60,000 Palestinians have been killed and more than 169,000 have been injured. There has been a tremendous amount of bloodshed, some of it completely unnecessary, certainly the terrorist attack and some of what's gone on in Gaza. And it feels like it was to some degree yesterday and to some degree like a million years ago. And I remain optimistic from our conversation last month that a deal can get done. I think it matters especially that Qatar is at the table and is part of the mediation team in Egypt alongside the United States, because without Qatar, Hamas cannot exist. You know, Qatar has been their safe haven, has been their financial backers in all of this. So I'm trying to remain positive on that. But it's, you know, it's a, it's a heavy thing. And I saw at Columbia of all places, which was really the hotbed of kind of the pro Palestinian and in many cases anti Israel protests, that they have this mile long memorial with 1200 empty chairs across the campus, which was a beautiful tribute to the horrors of October 7th and those lives that were lost. So those are my kind of top line October 7th thoughts. I don't know if you have any.

A (20:14)

Well, one, I think we're really starting to see and pay the price for threats that have absolutely no veracity anymore. Didn't he just say on Thursday if Hamas didn't accept a deal by Sunday, all hell was going to break loose?

B (20:30)

I mean, it's just hell's on a sliding scale. I think we're moving it back.

A (20:35)

Wasn't Ukraine going to be done in two? These deadlines no one takes seriously anymore. And the latest I've heard, and I wanted to get Dan Senor on the pod because he just gets the nuance here or he's going to forget more about this than at least I'm ever going to know. But what I've heard, or the latest is that while Hamas agreed to certain points, they refused or disagreed on certain points, including a requirement that they disarm. Okay, If Hamas isn't willing to lay down their weapons, then I don't see how this gets done at all. I'm with you on this. The war really needs to come to an end. The suffering, the devastation, the destruction, the humanitarian crisis here. I believe when you incur this viciously into a nation that has a superior military infrastructure and is an ally of the US you are going to pay a severe price. And Gaza now has the greatest concentration of child amputees in the world. The devastation here has been just striking, horrific. It needs to end. And every day that moves on. As a Jew and someone who's pro Israel, every day this goes on creates more danger and erodes the safety and the moral high ground. If we can still claim that of Jews in Israel around the world, this is just bad for everybody. Every minute that this goes on, the question is, okay, well, how do we end it? And America has to play a key role in that. I think a pan Arab security force. The problem is we have a president that's got the attention span of a cat on meth. And I worry, and there's a reason there are thousands of people in the State Department because to iron out all the details here takes real work, real patience and incredible diplomacy. None of which I believe. The President, I don't trust. I mean, this is where you pay the price for having incompetence like a Secretary of War lecturing people who have pieces of men tougher than him in their shit. I'm talking about you, Secretary of War Hegseth, who disparages the most talented, competent and lethal people in the history of the world in a room anyway. I worry that the layer down of diplomats are not as skilled as they should be and that the President will move on to something else after his empty threats. And that Netanyahu I don't think is a good actor. I think that he is someone who's more focused on staying out of jail and remaining on a war footing such that he can be seen as a wartime leader. So I'm not as hopeful here as other people that this is going to happen. And when Hamas says they refuse to lay down their arms or that's a point where they refuse to lay down their arms, well, that's sort of a deal killer. I mean, people say would you have left Nazis in Germany and I think that's a decent argument. Probably not. Would we have let the Nazis rearm? No. 100%. We wouldn't have allowed that. So a lot of press releases, a lot of imagery of Donald Trump in 100 yard dash for a Nobel prize, but I don't see the groundwork of a pan Arab security force, multiple parties trying to figure this out. What I hope is that the leadership of Hamas, who I understand is holed up and being in a hotel room in Qatar guarded by Qatari guards and basically are said, you either agree to this deal or the Israelis have a habit of tracking down people. The Israeli's strategy has been around targeted assassinations actually more than war, despite these recent conflicts. And you can bet those folks in this room in Qatar right now have a lot of incentive, I would think, to try and get a deal done pretty crisply. But we're dealing with an enemy here that is unlike other enemies the west has faced in that they see continued death as martyrdom for their populace. So I'm actually, I really want this to come to an end for all parties involved. I'm skeptical that this is going to actually happen. And I worry that Trump will not demonstrate the patience and the leadership to do the hard work. You know, underneath these secretaries of state are thousands of people that actually got to get that have to get the shit done and work out all the details.

B (25:15)

Well, that was something Secretary Clinton said when she was on over the summer and she said, you know, I don't know Special Envoy Witkoff personally, but I do know that this is not a job for one person. Right. That you can be in charge of peace in the Middle east and Russia, Ukraine also, you know, making sure that China doesn't keep advancing like it's too many jobs for one person. Same goes for what's going on with Marco Rubio as well. He has what, like four or five positions? He did say this weekend, I think on Face the Nation, that the, that Hamas has agreed to the hostage release framework, which is pretty startling. So under that plan, the hostages will be exchanged for 250 Palestinians. And they, their expectation is that there are 20 hostages that are still alive and the remains of 25 of them. And there was discussion of getting the hostages back by Thursday of this week, so in 48 hours. But Hamas has apparently said they can't like locate all the remains in that amount of time. I don't know what they have been doing with those remains. I don't even want to think about it. But that's at least our goal to be getting this kind of 45 to 50 people in various, you know, states of alive or dead back. And so for the hostages, 250 Palestinian prisoners serving life sentences will be released, and 1700 Gazans that are jailed by Israel during the war. And for every hostage whose remains are released, Israel will also release the remains of 15 Gazans. So that's at least the framework that they're trying to make happen. To your point about, you know, being skeptical but hopeful, I've been watching a lot of interviews with the hostage parents, and, you know, they all congregate together. It's completely heartbreaking, but they actually seem hopeful for the first time since kind of in the immediate aftermath of all of this. And one of the parents who has a son that's being held in. In Gaza, expected to be alive, said, please end this nightmare. Please make it happen. And they do believe that Donald Trump can do this. And Dan Seynor, who I love to have back on the pod, obviously, I was watching one of his videos that he posted, and he said why he is more optimistic about this is that he believes that Trump. It seems as though he's kind of just fed up. And I feel the same way about what's going on with Russia and Ukraine. Like, he rolls out the red carpet quite liter for Putin, right? Comes to Alaska, and then Putin leaves the next day to go to China and hang out with his real friends. And that he's just kind of done with people bossing him around. And if it makes him feel super powerful and like he leans into that aspect of it, and that results in Ukraine not having to cede as much territory as Zelensky is even willing to, or that these hostages come back and Israel pulls out of Gaza and, you know, Hamas lays down its weapons, which I understand is gonna be a tough sell, then count me in in the adulation for Trump on this one. I did it with the Abraham Accords during the first administration, and I would certainly do it again.

A (28:34)

Yeah, I think you're giving him more credit than he deserves. I think that one of the reasons that business people don't make great politicians, they can be good cabinet members, great treasury secretaries, great secretaries of commerce, is that business kind of brings forward very rational actors in the sense that they're focused on fear and greed, and everybody kind of understands each other. We're all trying to increase profits, earnings per share, and have similar values, at least across capitalist societies, to get business done. It's totally different in politics. You're dealing with ideology, you're dealing with reelections, you're dealing with optics and politics as opposed to actually getting things done. You're dealing with people who might be running for election to stay out of prison. I mean, it's just you're dealing with the slow bureaucratic state. So generally speaking, business people don't make great leaders in government. And Trump, I had some exposure to one of the Trump kids and their business and essentially the Trump enterprise and the way he was raised was be famous and then slap your name on something, but don't do any actual work. Where Trump made all of his money was one a reality show? Well, one inheriting money. The smartest thing he ever did was he inherited a lot of money. The second was he made a bunch of money. He's an amazing reality TV show. And then what he would do is famous for being famous. Slap his logo on a building, have someone else build it, have someone else run it, and skim a licensing fee. Whenever he actually got involved in the operations of anything, it usually ended up with unpaid subcontractors and, or bankruptcy. And so this is not an individual who has any background or any credibility or any training and actually being a relatively good operator or manager. And that does not lend itself well to a situation like pulling together a peace plan along these lines. So I don't, I worry that he does not hire the right people, he does not create the right incentives, he does not create the right culture in job descriptions that result in an effective administration. And my understanding is whoever speaks to him last is the strategy he decides to deploy here. The fact that Dan Senor is optimistic to me is really, really exciting because let's just outline before I motor on too long here, just some key aspects of the proposed plan. Gaza will be redeveloped for the people of Gaza in quotes. If accepted, the Israeli military offensive will end immediately. All hostages will be released dead and alive. Israel will release 250 life sentenced prisoners plus 1700 Gazans who were detained after October 7, 2023, including all women and children detained. In that context, for every Israeli hostage whose remains are released, Israel will release the remains of 15 deceased Gazans. Hamas will lay down arms and be allowed to leave Gaza. If desired, full aid will be sent into Gaza. Hamas will not have any influence in the governments of a future Palestinian state. And a pathway to Palestinian statehood is outlined as a possibility but not a guarantee. And just back to the point about if you're concerned about Israel and Jews, a new polling of Americans show that the Israeli war effort is rapidly losing support in the U.S. i think people are exhausted. The share of Americans that believe Israel is going too far has grown to roughly 40% from just 27% at the beginning of the war, which is a 50% increase. 55% are extreme, extremely concerned about starvation among Gazans. 53% are extremely concerned about Israeli strikes killing civilians. And more than two thirds of Jewish Americans have a negative view of Netanyahu. So this is for a lot of reasons. Whether you. You know, when I talk to people in the Trump administration and they talk about ICE raids or they talk about these tariffs, I think they're bad actors. I don't think they're concerned with getting to the truth. I think they're concerned with supporting what is a difficult, tenuous political viewpoint. When I talk to people who disagree with me on Israel, I find they're good actors. They're genuinely concerned. Now, I immediately ask them about the protest they're going to for Sudan or Catholics in Congo, whatever. But generally speaking, I have close friends who are on the total opposite side of this issue as I am. I find they are good actors who are concerned for the right reasons. And we have. I understand and empathize with their disagreement. This is terrible right now for Israel and Jews. Every day this goes on, whether you believe it's warranted to go on, whether you believe the terms are unacceptable for Israel, every day that it goes on. I'm speaking at the Simon Wiesenthal center in a few weeks, and the reality is, and I was writing on some of my comments, There were 16 million Jews in 1939. Hitler took us down to 9 million. It's taken us 80 years to get back to 16 million. There are 1.1 billion Muslims. And the notion that if we don't figure out a way to be again seen as the good guys, even if it costs geopolitical power, even if it involves making decisions that we are uncomfortable with. And by the way, I think my viewpoint is where 70% of Israeli citizens are right now. If Israel doesn't quickly figure out a way to take back the mantle as the good guys, we won't survive. I mean, for every one Israeli, there's 80 Muslims. And not all Muslims, they're anti Semitic. But if you just look at the sheer numbers and Jesus Christ, go on my YouTube channel and find my comments about Israel and see the comments that fill up. I mean, we just have to face reality here, folks. We are vastly outnumbered, and the only way we survive is to punch above our weight class. Not only militarily not only economically, but from a position of the moral high ground. And that occasionally means, quite frankly, leaving something out. I'm taking this back to business. I didn't learn this till I was much older. I saw transactions as I need to be on the equivalent or the better side of a transaction. And then I realized as I got older, actually good business people leave some on the table and are generous and sometimes just swallow it and take it. And I worry that if this thing doesn't end fast, we are in a downward spiral of global reputation and a small nation of 16 million people, regardless of their military competence and precision, antiterror strikes. It is going to be very hard for us to maintain any sort of long term enduring society with 16 million people if we are not firmly seen again as the good guys.

B (35:20)

Yep. I mean, we've lost here in the US an entire generation. You know, Gen Z has no affection whatsoever for Israel, isn't trying to justify October 7, but is much more concerned in what has happened October 8 onwards than what happened on the day itself. And there is no getting around that. I'm watching campaigns, Senate campaigns play out all across the country. Graham Platner In Maine, Mallory McMorrow has just changed her position. She used to speak very differently about a just war or what Israel was doing has changed course. Platner, you know, he's an oyster farmer and veteran running for Senate against Susan Collins. And he, he does all the right things in talking about the oligarchy and, you know, it's us versus them and working people and affordability. But a core component of his campaign is like a, you know, going against AIPAC money and that there's a genocide being carried out. And so if this is becoming a central issue in all the important marquee races across the country, you know that what you were just saying is, is very, very true. And we're at a tenuous or perilous moment for the future of kind of like pro Israel American Jews and also Jews within the Democratic Party. Like, just look at, you know, how the chips fell in the New York City in the mayoral primary, for instance. And a lot of people who feel more similarly, Jews who think like Brad Lander does or Mamdani does about what's going on than how Andrew Cuomo feels about it. So it's a big moment.

A (37:12)

Let's take a quick break.

B (37:20)

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A (38:37)

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B (39:00)

With Jimmy Fallon tonight on NBC.

A (39:06)

Welcome back. Before we go the manosphere, the same space that helped fuel Trump's rise is now showing signs of buyer's remorse. Aiden Ross, who livestreamed with Trump in 2024, is rethinking his involvement. Admitting I wish I never got into politics. He says it's overshadowed who he really is and has made him hesitant to ever engage politically again. You know, welcome to our world. Ross isn't alone. Creators including Andrew Schultz, Joe Rogan, Theo Vaughn have also expressed frustration or tried to distance themselves after giving Trump major digital platforms. What are your thoughts on this?

B (39:37)

Well, I think it's good to own it publicly if you made a mistake versus kind of not covering the things that are upsetting you, which mostly this is revolves around immigration. Andrew Schultz, I think was the first one to start talking about it. And then Theo Vaughn, you know, something he said was used in a DHS video against, you know, no consent to do that. And he as part of his show, I guess like last week was talking about it and said that he absolutely wouldn't be lending his support in that way and that also he's really scared about what's going on. You know, he said My father's a Nicaraguan immigrant. What's frustrating for me, I guess, is twofold. One, you know, with great power comes great responsibility. And I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to have fun and knock ideas around without being totally precise about your language or thinking about, well, what if someone takes it like this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you are sitting down with the guy who was the president and is going to be the president again, potentially, you have to take that very seriously. And for all of the shock and surprise, like, were you paying any attention to what his campaign was predicated on? Did your research people, if you have them say, like, here's Project 2025. I've put, you know, I've highlighted the parts that you should pay attention to, because it's all there. There is very little that has occurred. I can't even actually think of something. I get it. You know, we say, like, oh, I'm so surprised he said X, Y, or. But the actual actions that have been taken by this administration are straight out of a literal playbook that you could print out and read through before bed. And so that's really frustrating to me. And I don't want to be like the Debbie Downer that said, like, oh, I told you so, but, you know, you're shocked that he's rounding up people at Home Depot, like, give me a break.

A (41:40)

Yeah, I. You know, like, I. I do think the Democrats need to be better at embracing imperfect allies. And that is the greatest collective victory of the last century was World War II, when Russians, Brits, people who really didn't like each other and were ready to not get along as soon as the war was over came together and said, this is a bigger threat. So something I don't like about the left is that they treat everyone that doesn't sign up for the exact same fucking narrative in hardcore orthodoxy as an apostate. And I know you get this. I get this a lot. If you say, yeah, I don't think borrowers of student loans should be bailed out. We thought we could trust you. Yeah, yeah. Biden is just too fucking old, and he's a narcissist, and he should do what he said and be a transitional. You don't understand the assignment, Scott. It's just there's a lack of tolerance for critical thinking or going issue by issue. And I appreciate that these guys are willing to say. And they have huge platforms. Yeah, I did not sign up for this. I didn't realize that it was gonna go this Far. And I go back and I'm a hammer. Everything I see is a nail. People don't realize these guys played an enormous role in the election of the President because if you look at who pivoted hardest from blue to red, 2020 to 2024, one of the biggest groups was people under the age of 30, of which these guys are as or more dominant than cbs, NBC, abc, cnn, msnbc, all combined. They just. The exposure Trump got on Rogan was equivalent to three hours a night of primetime cable across all three major networks for two weeks. I mean, quite frankly, unless it took two weeks for Vice President Harris to get to Austin and back, she should have done it because there was nothing she could do that would have as much impact as going on Rogan. And I remember speaking to someone about it and I'm like, rogan doesn't embarrass people. He doesn't call people out. He's not looking for a gotcha moment. She should absolutely do it. And also the other group that swung incredibly hard was 45 to 64 year old women. And my thesis, Jess, is that, is that that's their mothers. And we don't like to talk about this because we like to assume every woman is this independent saint. But there's still a large cohort of women who will vote for who they perceive as being best for their husbands and sons. And I think the manosphere delivered the election because to the right's credit, they noticed the problems facing young men and the lack of empathy. Now, granted, I think their response, unfortunately is too much coarseness and cruelty. But I applaud that. These guys, I actually think most of these guys. I've been on Theo Vaughn's podcast. I haven't been on Rogan or Andrew Schultz. I found Theo Vaughn. I like him. I think he's refreshing. I don't agree with his politics, but I like the idea of a guy who didn't go to journalism school at Northwestern and is a recovering addict. He speaks in a very real way. I think he's funny. I think these guys play a really important role in media. And I don't think anyone has really acknowledged they are the new power. Like what? You know, I love Jake Tapper, but what Jake Tapper says. What? You know, I don't know who the biggest host is on Fox now. What? Who's the biggest host on With Jesse Waters, with Jake Tapper. And then who's the biggest host on msnbc? I don't know. Is it in Maddow? They are literally pee wee Football compared to the Tom Brady. I should not use sports analogies of these guys. These guys appeal to the swing voter that is a young male who votes on economic issues and economic issues flip back and forth. People ping back and forth between the Democratic and Republican party around who they think will be best for their pocketbook. These guys, in my view, along with probably Elon Musk, his targeting and his quarter of a billion dollars, I think they delivered the election to Trump. So I'm going down, I'm boasting now because I'm desperate for your affirmation, Jeff, but I'm going down to speak to the Democratic Senate caucus in a couple weeks and I'm just talking about media landscape and basically my message is podcasts. I mean just fucking figure it out. Have mics everywhere, follow your guy around with a phone and a mic and get on as many podcasts as possible because that's the fertile ground you want to advertise on local news stations because old people watch the weather and that attractive young thing who's wearing a sleeveless dress, fine. But guess what? They already know who they're voting for. A seven year old white woman knows who she's voting for. It's the 34 year old male that you flip a coin and it's kind of up for grabs, if you will. Young women are a little bit more steadfast. They're not as, quite frankly, they're not as malleable. But these guys, these guys are the new Walter Cronkites, Tom Brokaw. I don't know who the big influencers were that shifted public opinion, but anyways, imperfect allies the Democratic Party should be bear hugging these guys, well, they're trying and also say give them, you know, invite them into the tent. And also anyone who wants to be president. We just interviewed JB Pritzker. JB should be hanging out. JB Governors Newsom's, Moore, Bashir, Senators Murphy, Bennett, Klobuchar, Governor Whitmer. Anyone who wants to be president should have a second home in Austin right now because that's where all these manosphere podcasters are. By the way, I was on Chris Williams podcast yesterday. I love him. Do you know Chris Williams?

B (47:51)

No.

A (47:52)

Oh, he's great. He's like that thoughtful monk manosphere.

B (47:57)

I do know who you're talking about. Yeah, yeah.

A (47:58)

Anyways, I think that's very cool. I think he's very. It's fantastic. Anyways, a little bit better. We need to embrace imperfect allies. These guys are hu.

B (48:06)

Hugely. But if they'll. I mean, the key component is if they'll have us because they are not interested in being a. A stop on a press tour. Right. Like they want. They want to have good, heartfelt conversations with people like Bernie and Pete Buttigieg have been on with Andrew Schultz. But, you know, that's not an easy booking to get. And the Democratic brand is so stale and, you know, not risky or risk averse. I should say that they don't necessarily seem like they're going to be a good hang, you know, and like these guys want to have a good hang if they're inviting you on for an hour. So we got to get cooler.

A (48:47)

We're bringing the D endemic. We're making Democratic sexy again. I'm going to start wearing. I'm going to start showing a little bit of midriff on this.

B (48:54)

Start showing. I've seen. Oh, on this pod. Yes. You. You haven't done. You haven't been topless here.

A (49:00)

I know what needs to be done. I know.

B (49:02)

I understand all of you next week, then.

A (49:05)

I understand the assignment. All right, that's all for this episode. Thank you for listening to raging moderates. This is a production of Prof. G Media. Our producer is the immensely talented David Toledo. Our associate producer is Eric Genekast. Our technical director is Drew Burrows. Our engineer is William Flynn. And our executive producer is Kathryn Dillon. Make sure to follow us wherever you get your podcast. You don't miss an episode.