← The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway
The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway
Was Biden’s Decline a Cover-Up? — with Jake Tapper & Alex Thompson
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- [00:01]
Scott Galloway
Support for Prop Tree comes from Viori. Oh my God. True story. I am wearing totally coincidentally, guess what? Viori shorts. Viori's high quality gym clothes are made to be versatile and stand the test of time. They sent me some to try out and here I am. For our listeners, vuori is offering 20% off your first purchase, plus get free shipping on any US orders over $75 in free returns. Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet. Vuori.com profg that's V-U-O-R-I.com profg exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. Support for Profg comes from HubSpot. HubSpot is taking on the fundamental myth in business software that you need dozens of different tools to succeed. You don't. You only need one that actually works. With HubSpot's powerful AI solution, Breeze, built right into their customer platform platform, you have everything you need all in one place. Breeze copilot acts like a digital wingman that keeps you two steps ahead while Breeze agents take entire work streams off your plate. That's not AI vaporware, that's leverage. We're talking about real roi, cutting sales cycles in half, resolving service tickets fasters, and working less hours every week. To make it all happen, go to HubSpot.comai to get started today. Support for the show comes from smartsheet. The best teams don't just work, they thrive. And smartsheet is the work management platform that transforms how teams operate, allowing them to automate teamwork, collaborate and stay on track. Whether your team is managing multiple projects or rapidly scaling, smartsheet has the tools to cut through the chaos and get work done. Smartsheet work with flow. Learn more@smartsheet.com Vox Episode 349. 349 is the area code serving the Mexican state of Jalisco. In 1949, NATO was formed. What does a Scotsman say when he loses a digit on his foot? Natto, we're reaching.
- [02:24]
Jake Tapper
Go, go, go.
- [02:33]
Scott Galloway
Welcome to the 349th episode of the Prop G Pod. What's happening? Okay, in today's episode. Wow. Has this blown up into something we weren't thinking? Jake Tapper, anchor of the Lead on CNN and the network chief Washington correspondent, and Alex Thompson, national political correspondent for Axios and CNN contributor, are on the pod. They're the co authors of a new book which unpacks what they call the defining mistake of the 2024 election. President Biden's decision to run for Reelection followed by a concerted effort to hide his cognitive decline. Let's talk about the timeline and what's going on here. I find this fascinating. Biden officially dropped out of the race on July 21, 2024. I want to say I'm the original ageist. I said on Bill Maher, where he responded, you're an ageist. And I said, yeah, so is biology. I said that it was fucking ridiculous that Biden was running for reelection and also ridiculous that Donald Trump was running for election. Our prefrontal cortex begins to degrade at the age of 40. And we take driver's licenses away from people. We don't let them be pilots. Most CEOs and most of Western nations are asked to retire at 65. And yet we've decided that people who are even past what is the life expectancy in the United States can have their finger on the button. This is a very taxing button. We absolutely need age limits on the top end, as we do on the bottom end. But anyways, here is some receipts from me being the original ageist. What a thrill. On July 11, I said on this very podcast that it was time for him to step down. And let's be honest, America is the most impressive country in the world. We need to mature the most impressive person in the party to lead the Democratic Party and be the front line. And that is not the president. Okay. Then again, on Pivot with Kara Swisher, just days before he exited the race a few weeks ago, there was a general sense that the destabilization and the risks of removing Biden for a lot of people were not worth it. And then as there was additional scrutiny and he was forced to go off teleprompter and do live stuff, quite frankly, it just, it just cemented, confirmed, validated, everyone's worst fears. And I wrote about it even earlier in our newsletter, no Mercy, no malice.
- [04:46]
Jake Tapper
On July 5, I believe President Biden will announce he is withdrawing from the 2024 race imminently.
- [04:57]
Scott Galloway
Anyway, the book has really stirred controversy, not because of what the book reveals, but because of when it was released, just days after the news broke about Biden's cancer diagnosis. So this conversation with Jake and Alex was recorded before this kind of controversy hit it. I think a lot of this is that people feel that Jake and Alex accidentally are sort of dancing on the grave or the early grave of a man who has devoted his life to the US I think a lot of this is that people are just upset about the fact that Democrats lost to an insurrectionist and are looking for a target for their anger. And I think Jake and Alex got in the way. But this was an honest and thoughtful conversation. There's also criticism, especially toward Jake, that he knew about Biden's decline and is now trying to profit from it with his book. Look, they're trying to make it sound more scandalous than it probably was. I don't think cover up is the right term. If they were truly trying to cover Biden's cognitive decline, they would have never allowed him to debate. Trump decided not to debate after it was clear he didn't have the cognitive abilities to go toe to toe with Vice President Harris. He looks stupid, flat footed, and quite frankly, old. And they decided to hide him. They let President Biden out. So we all knew this. I mean, this was a kind of an open secret. And if you have aging parents, you know that you're not covering up for them, but you're accidental co conspirators. This was naive. It was stupid. It was irresponsible for the people around him and his family and him, quite frankly, to let this go as long as it did. I believe that had the primary process, which is this unbelievable process that matures not only the right person, but the right person for the moment. I think we would have handed Trump his ass and we wouldn't have an insurrectionist who is engaging in the greatest grift in the history of, of a Western economy right now. But the reason we have a quote unquote person who is found guilty on 34 counts of sexual abuse by a jury of his peers, which includes many Republicans, the reason why that person won is because of not this cover up, but this naivete, this ignorance and this poor judgment of President Biden and his family. And we have to reckon with that. And also the Democratic Party who decided not to have. My recommendation was that we have a compressed sort of all hands, shark tank like primary with multiple debates and try and mature the best person because no one had heard of Barack Obama or Bill Clinton. But the primary process on both sides tends to mature amazing candidates. And we decided that we were gonna stick our heads in the sand and believe that someone who did make it to Iowa, was in the previous election, was the right person to take the mantle after basically Biden was threatened with getting embarrassed day by day when it became very obvious that he was in no shape whatsoever to run for president again. So this is something that we all engage in because we all love our aging parents and our family. We see them at their best. So you can absolutely understand how they would make excuses. This is a guy who was pushing back on Russia, who stood up to immediately deployed aircraft carrier strike forces to the Mediterranean and told Iran to sit the fuck down. I don't think he gets enough credit for that. Passed a ton of meaningful legislation. I mean, this guy, you could see why people would say, look, he's lost a step, but he surrounds himself with really talented people and he's the best thing for the country. You can absolutely see that argument. And again, we all engage in this. If you have aging parents in what is not a cover up but a tendency to enable, rationalize and not see the forest for the trees, when you're inside of the bottle, it's really hard to read the label. What's the recommendation here? What's the learning? The learning is we need age limits, folks. We have decided a 34 year old doesn't have the judgment or the experience to run for the land's highest office. Then someone at 75 probably doesn't have the cognitive faculties or the judgment or quite frankly, it's just not as robust and presents too much of a health risk. What if President Biden was president right now? My guess is he would probably still, he probably wouldn't handle the reins, hand the reins over to Vice President Harris. He'd still think that he could handle everything and we would have a nation that is somewhat in chaos or a little bit leaderless than Pennsylvania Avenue. I still think that would be better than what we have, but that's absolutely what we shouldn't do. We need age limits also. It's the kinder thing to do. It's the kindest thing to do because a lot of these people feel like when they give up their profession that they're essentially going home to die. And actually there's some truth to that, that mortality rates increase when you stop working. But when you have a mandatory retirement age, as they do for the Supreme Court in the UK and they do across many corporations and in many government positions around the world, it creates, it gets rid of the anxiety. It's the kind thing to do, it's the right thing to do, it's the best thing for the nation. So rather than playing it a blame game and getting angry for Jake and Alex for trying to promote their book, rather than blaming the Biden family, we can absolutely. Or the people around them, we can absolutely, in my opinion, see how this happened. Anyways, with that, here's our conversation with Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson. Foreign does this podcast find you?
- [10:06]
Jake Tapper
I am At Penn Law School, where my dad and C.J. rice and I just did a seminar on criminal justice. I don't know if you know the C.J. rice story, but my dad and then slightly me helped get an innocent man out of prison.
- [10:20]
Scott Galloway
Oh, that's nice. And that must be rewarding to be able to work with your father.
- [10:25]
Jake Tapper
Yeah, it was pretty cool.
- [10:27]
Scott Galloway
That's great. And Alex, where does this podcast find you?
- [10:29]
Alex Thompson
I'm in D.C. in my apartment.
- [10:32]
Scott Galloway
That's not nearly as cool a story. Jake wins. Jake is winning.
- [10:35]
Alex Thompson
So far, I didn't get anyone out of prison, didn't do anything. Just my apartment with too many books.
- [10:43]
Scott Galloway
All right, let's bust right into it. Your new book, Original Sin, explores what you call the original sin of the 2024 election. President Biden's decision to seek reelection, followed by a full scale effort to conceal his cogn decline throughout the campaign. I'll start with a bunch of theses because Alex, Jake knows this, but Alex doesn't. This podcast is just basically an excuse for me to talk about me and my views. My sense is that I read this book called what It Takes, and it covered, I think, like the 84 election and all the candidates, and it basically wrote a hundred page biography on all the candidates. One of them was Biden 88, but yeah, it was 88. Thank you, Jake. Jake, it's my fucking podcast. Don't correct me. You may be a big swinging dick at cnn, but I don't put up with that shit here. So look, after reading that book, the takeaway I had from Biden was that he was a raging narcissist. And when I look at Dianne Feinstein or Ruth Bader Ginsburg, this has really plagued us. Was this narcissism that these people don't want to acknowledge that maybe they aren't up to the job. Your thoughts on. I mean, at the end of the day, he decided to stay in. Wasn't this, Wasn't he infected with narcissism? I've even heard now that he's reflecting, but he's not reflecting on his mistake. He's reflecting on whether he would have won Biden. Narcissism that was bad for the country. Put himself before the country thoughts.
- [12:10]
Alex Thompson
You know, it's interesting that you reference what it takes because Joe Biden liked his portrayal and what it takes. In fact, he had the researcher of what it takes write both of his memoirs, ghostwrite both of his memoirs. I agree with you that he didn't totally understand the portrayal and some of the damning parts of it. And I do think that Joe Biden, especially in 2022, early 2023, sort of saw himself as an indispensable man. Right? The world's on fire, Putin's on the march. And, you know, he can save it in its own way. It's his own version of I alone can fix it.
- [12:51]
Scott Galloway
I'm curious, Jake, what you think when. And I have the receipts here, but very early on, I'm like, this guy's too old. And that also that Vice President Harris would make a great Supreme Court justice and a terrible candidate. This is someone who didn't make it to Iowa in the previous campaign. And I started getting text messages from some of the people we both know saying, scott, do you not understand the assignment here? You're about to get Trump reelected. And quite frankly, and I'm not proud of this, I acquiesced. I signed up because I was so scared of a Trump reelection, and everyone convinced me this was the only path forward. I'm curious what your experience was with that A. Did you register that same kind of pressure? And what was the behind the scenes kind of arm twisting across the media, powerful or elite?
- [13:43]
Jake Tapper
You're right that there is this huge pressure of what's wrong with you? Do you want Trump in this Manichean world, like the Manichean world, the idea that we're supposed to be on one side or the other. And if you are criticizing Joe Biden for anything, you obviously are. Maga. I went through that in 2020, more in 2021 when I provided very critical coverage of the withdrawal from Afghanistan. And I think they just always thought I was a pain in the ass, that it didn't bother me as much. Which is not to say that I covered, in retrospect, the aging and cognition issue as much as I wish I had, knowing now what Alex and I were able to learn after the election, interviewing more than 200 mostly Democratic insiders on stuff that they wouldn't talk to us about until the election was over. I do think that there is a degree of media complicity that we can talk about. But the bottom line really is that President Biden, his family and his top aides lied. They lied to the press, they lied to the public, they lied to their own Cabinet secretaries, they lied to White House staffers, they lied to Democratic elected officials. And it was a lie made evident to the world. Well, first of all, I mean, as you know, the public was long skeptical of his ability to do this job, but it was a lie that was almost unrefutable, irrefutable after the June 27 debate. So while I can point to any number of individuals, including myself and every single human being outside the White House, who wasn't constantly shouting about this, the emperor has no clothes. I do think at the end of the day, the man that you called a narcissist and his support network, his inner circle, are chief, chiefly responsible for this lie's strength as long as it existed.
- [15:51]
Scott Galloway
Alex, I'm curious. I remember thinking, where's his wife? When you think about your family and their role, you trust them. You know they have your best interests at heart. I'm curious if you have any inside information or knowledge here or reporting around what First Lady Biden's role was or was not in this process.
- [16:18]
Alex Thompson
You know, Jill Biden used to be a reluctant political spouse. You know, in 2004, she has this story where she literally walked into a political meeting that was about Biden running for President in 2004 with no in a Sharpie written on her stomach while she was in a bikini. She's, like, strode through the meeting. Yeah, that changes. And starting in, like, 2017, 2018, 2019, she becomes not just, you know, an unwilling political specialist, she becomes an enthusiastic and a huge part of his political decision making and operation. Her chief aide becomes a deputy campaign manager on the 2020 effort. Very unusual for the aide to espouse to have that sort of role. He then also becomes one of the most powerful people in the White House. He's vetting certain aides. He's often vetting people for loyalty. He had enormous control over the schedule and would often, you know, say, oh, you know, the first lady's not gonna like this. They would throw that around a lot. A lot of the time. So the combination of the two of them had enormous power in the White House. And there was this feeling that even though he was 80 and was about to run for reelection, none of the senior people in the White House got in his face and said, maybe we shouldn't do this. And part of the reason now that I think speaks to their own lack of courage, but part of the reason was that this environment had been set up. And I think Jill was an indispensable part of this, of where loyalty was the first virtue and most important virtue. And if you questioned, then it automatically got to the first lady, and then that would get back to Joe. So I think that was part of how she pushed. And I think if you watch the, you know, his appearance on the View the other week. I think you can see how she took her role as a loving spouse and protector and how it went to lengths that eventually became, you know, covering up for his deficiencies.
- [18:33]
Jake Tapper
Somebody close to the family told us that of all the mottos you hear about my word is a Biden, et cetera, et cetera. But there's one that Joe Biden doesn't share on the stump. It's crude. It's never call a fat person fat. And what it means is not please be polite. It's don't point out ugly truths. And this is a family motto that might not be on the family, the Biden family crest, but it explains a lot. It explains why they lied to the public about Beau and his health, why they were in denial about Hunter's condition and their daughter's condition, both of them struggling with addiction. It's the lie of Joe Biden cares about his family more than he cares about his own ambition. It's not true. Probably not true for most presidents, if not all presidents. But there is a belief in the mythology of Joe Biden that for his family and closest aides, becomes not just a mythology, it becomes a theology. And like any theology, skeptics are not welcome. And that's one of the ways that they got to the place where they were putting Joe Biden ahead of everything. They believed that he was the singular man who could save NATO and protect Ukraine, protect the country from Donald Trump. Just such a denial of realities. Don't call a fat person fat. To the point that ultimately the whole country was like, okay, this can't go on anymore. We've never seen anything like this before.
- [20:25]
Scott Galloway
So you talked to 200 people. What were some of the. Give us a few of the most surprising findings that were sort of like.
- [20:32]
Jake Tapper
Whoa, there's so many. I mean, the fact that in December 2022, he couldn't come up with the name in the middle of the day, he couldn't come up with the name of his National Security advisor, Jake Sullivan, or his communications director, Kate Bedingfield. He didn't. He called Jake Steve, and he called Kate Press. The fact that behind the scenes, as far back as April 2023, he was having moments where Democratic Congressman Mike Quigley of Illinois saw him, and it reminded him of his father, who had passed away from Parkinson's. That's to the extent of how debilitated he seemed. I mean, the fact that they had the last Cabinet meeting that they had in almost a year in October 2023, and then cabinet secretaries told us that the White House kept them at bay, didn't allow them to see him. And that in the intervening time, one of the cabinet secretaries had a meeting with him and he seemed disoriented and not with it. Other cabinet secretaries told us that that legendary test of a president. Can he manage the emergency 2:00am phone call? No, they didn't think he could. By the end of his presidency, all of this. But honestly, like, literally when I was doing the audiobook, after every chapter, I would just say, holy shit, I still can't believe this. Alex and I reported this and I still can't believe it.
- [22:07]
Alex Thompson
I mean, I would also just add to that he didn't recognize George Clooney, one of the most famous people in the world, someone also that he had a relationship with, who had when he was in the Senate as chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. You know, Clooney was involved in that. They'd known each other for a long time and you know, at that fundraiser in June of 2024, and an aide had to be like, you remember George? And he's like, yeah, yeah. And then George Clooney, you know, and that moment is the seed to eventually George Clooney writing that op ed. And I think that was just sort of a stunning revelation and the fact that it's what sort of compelled Clooney to speak out.
- [22:52]
Scott Galloway
I'm hearing from all of these senior level people or governors, many of whom some served in the administration. And when people reach out to me and they quote, unquote, they say, I'd love to get your views on something, which is Latin for I'm running for president and want to come on your podcast. And it strikes me that one of the biggest missed opportunities was in as elegant and kind a way possible for someone like Governor Newsom or Secretary Buttigieg to say, look, I adore the man, but I'm running for president. And it just struck me that, no, nobody did.
- [23:29]
Jake Tapper
Well, Dean Phillips did, but, yeah, no major character did.
- [23:32]
Scott Galloway
I had Representative Phillips on the pod, I think a lot of them, and I think he's going to be. I think he's a great representative. I just don't think he had much of a shot there. I don't think he was much of a. I don't think he was a credible candidate. I mean, I don't want to say they're to blame, but didn't they. It just struck me it got so bad at the end. What was it? Was it they thought they would immediately render their future ambitions less likely because a Democratic Machine would remember their lack of loyalty. It just felt like there was such a vacuum for someone to just raise their hand and say, love, the guy, will support him if he's a nominee, but I'm throwing my hat in the ring. How come that didn't happen?
- [24:15]
Jake Tapper
It's a great question. I think that first of all, he was incumbent president, and that's very difficult to do. And usually when you do that, whether you are Pat Buchanan or Ted Kennedy, you are tarred with the disloyal label. That said, there were efforts to try to get a Pritzker or a Whitmer or a Newsom to run. Bill Daley, the former Obama White House chief of staff, tried to get them to Dean Phillips, tried to get them to before he became a nominee. We have a whole chapter on Congressman Phillips. And the truth of the matter is, you read this book, there's not a lot of courage, there's not a lot of risk, and it's a risky venture to say, I'm gonna challenge the incumbent president. What I wonder more than that is where was the group of Democrats? Parties are so weak these days, but where was the DNC chair, Democratic leader of the Senate, Democratic leader of the House, to say, look, you are historically unpopular, and beyond that, you're having moments that I think that you should think about retiring and going out on top. But they didn't do that either. And in fact, even towards the end, the only person we could find who directly told President Biden, I don't think you should run again was Chuck Schumer at the very, very end, one week before he dropped out. Even the, Even the Nancy Pelosi's and Barack Obama's Hakeem Jeffries did not directly say it. They would say things like, we just want to make sure you have all the access to all the information you need, all the polling information. I don't know that Joe Biden would have ever dropped out no matter what. I think he only dropped out at the very, very end because he had to. It would have been a disaster. It would have been a bloody convention. But that said, yeah, nobody really acquits themselves very well in this.
- [26:24]
Scott Galloway
I was under the impression the relationship between him and Obama was very strained and that Obama saw the writing on the wall, but President Biden had already sort of shut him out. Is that true?
- [26:37]
Alex Thompson
Yes. And Obama is very aware of that, which is why, despite I think, some of the narrative that Obama was the one that pushed Biden out, you know, he was involved, but he was aware enough of Biden's resentments that he was wary of seeming involved because he knew it would just make Biden dig in more. And the reason the relationship is strained. There's two reasons. One's political, one's personal. One is that Biden and the people around him have never gotten over that Obama favored Hillary as the successor rather than Biden in 2016. He wrote about in his memoir. But it's still something that enrages them that Obama never took me seriously and never got, you know, never gave me the full credit. And there's a personal one, too. And Hunter Biden's ex wife, now ex wife, is very good friends with Michelle Obama. It's why Michelle Obama resisted campaigning for Joe Biden in 2020. It didn't get much noticed because of COVID And it's also why she was resistant to campaigning for him in 2024. That relationship, there is a rift there. Now the Obama people will be like, we like Joe. We don't have any resentments. The resentments mostly seem to be on the Biden side toward the Obamas.
- [28:00]
Scott Galloway
Give us some insight into the relationship. My thesis has always been that, and, you know, competition and politics makes strange bedfellows. But I've always felt that the reason Vice President Harris, who is a immensely qualified person, but the reason she got the nod to be the vice president was because she called the president Biden a racist on a debate stage. So they thought of her as a fighter.
- [28:20]
Jake Tapper
I don't think so. I know that almost. I think that almost cost her the nomination because Jill Biden was so resentful of it. At the end of the day, he had promised he would pick a woman vice president. He never promised he would pick an African American woman vice president. He said he'd pick an African American woman Supreme Court justice. But it kind of became this thing after George Floyd and the protests there that he felt like he had to pick a black woman. It really, at the end of the day, truly came down to Kamala Harris, who had been, in the view of the Biden team, vetted on a national stage because she had been a candidate for president, even though, as you point out, she didn't even make it to 2020, much less Iowa. And even though they were publicly talking about people like Congresswoman Karen Bass, who's now the mayor of Los Angeles, and Congresswoman Val Demings from Florida, those two weren't really in the final two. It was Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan and Kamala Harris. And Biden liked Whitmer more. He had more affection for her, saw her as more of a Biden Democrat type from a gritty, you know, Midwestern state. But at the end of the day, just the image of him with Kamala Harris, who was of the progressive left at that point, even though she really previously had been more of a moderate in California, African American woman vetted had gone after him in the debate. And so there were people on the staff who thought, well, this shows that he's bigger than that sort of thing. But Jill Biden really, really resented her. And while President Biden and Kamala Harris, I think, developed a genuine warmth, theirs was not the partnership of a Bush and Cheney or a Clinton and Gore or an Obama and Biden. She was relegated to lesser tasks. The team never really thought of her as the heir apparent until the very end. In fact, they would use her as an excuse as to why Biden couldn't step down. You want Kamala to be the nominee. You know, she's less popular than Biden.
- [30:36]
Alex Thompson
Which enraged other Democrats, because it was like you picked her. Some people in the Biden world have. Have quipped, you know, actually, the original sin was picking her because, you know, they felt that she was not ready or was not electable. But at the same. You know, at the end of the day, that was their choice. And it was. You know, picking a vice president is one of the most consequential choices. You know, a presidential candidate faces.
- [31:02]
Scott Galloway
What color or insight can you provide on the relationship between President Biden and Vice President Harris? So the public may not. May not have that nuance.
- [31:10]
Alex Thompson
Yeah, there was a little bit of strain. You know, Jake spoke to some of this, but, you know, the way that Biden would call her kid, Right. Like, I think Kamala Harris, according to people around her, they thought she thought of herself as a peer. And Biden saw her as, you know, a kid and someone that had been really good friends with his late son, Beau Biden, when they were both state attorneys general. And even on the staff level is where the tension really was, where the Biden team didn't think she was very good, thought she was creating headaches for them all the time, was not. And also didn't think she was, like, a very nice person. And to Jake's point, they used that dim view of her to rationalize running.
- [32:02]
Jake Tapper
For reelection, which is twisted because, as you know, it's got the. They could have made her a Supreme Court justice. Right? They could have said at some point when that position came open, we're gonna make you a Supreme Court justice. And you know, if you want to resign from the court and run for president in the future, that's on you. But we gotta put somebody who we think can actually be vice president and actually be president if need be. And she probably, let's be honest, I mean, she's certainly not the legal mind that Ketanji Brown Jackson is, but she would have been confirmed. She's a senator, she's a former Attorney General of California. The US Senate is a fairly, they, they love to sniff each other. I mean, you know, they're, they're a senator is good enough for any position. So I think she would have been confirmed that this is all Earth 2 stuff. But if they really didn't think she was qualified there, there was an out right there.
- [32:59]
Scott Galloway
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- [36:21]
Jake Tapper
No. So it's very complicated. So I mean, there is this impression that it was this grand plan with Schumer, Jeffries, Pelosi and Obama pulling strings and deciding things. But no, it was much more organic than that. Pelosi and Schumer both got members of their caucus to hold off on calling for him to step down at different times and wielded those public the threat of more public calls for him to step down as a threat to get things to get. That's how Schumer got a meeting with the with the Biden White House and campaign leadership by saying, if you don't do this, I got six senators who are ready to come out right now. And so they did that meeting, but at the very end, after a drumbeat of House Democrats on their own coming out. And then by the end I think it was like something like 40, which is really kind of a small number when you think about how many of them actually wanted him to step down. And it was pretty organic. The Biden people were still in denial. But what I think Changed the equation was you have Chuck Schumer goes to visit the President in Delaware. He has to threaten that he's going to call for the meeting if they don't give it to him publicly. So they say, if you don't give it to me, I'm going to call for it. You're going to have to give it to me. So let me come and visit him. He goes and visits him. This is after Pelosi and Jeffries have both made it clear to Biden the House Democratic Caucus doesn't want him to be the nominee anymore. And they think they're going to lose, not they're not going to be able to recapture the House and that they're worried that he's not getting the polling data that they're getting. Schumer goes there and he says he tells Biden about the meeting that the Senate Democrats have had with the campaign leadership, which Schumer had told Biden's top aides, Mike Donilon and Steve Richetti, tell the President every detail of this. And then it got back to Schumer that they hadn't. So that's why he called for the private meeting. He went there and he basically said, of the 51 member Senate Democratic caucus, there are five who want you to stay as the nominee. And that meant a lot to Joe Biden personally, because at that point, by the way, I think only one had publicly called for him to not be the nominee anymore. I think Senator Welch from Vermont. They were all holding back, but a number of them were very worried, especially the ones up for reelection. So that was a deciding factor. Also one week later, when Biden was very sick with COVID And I can't imagine what it was like for an 81 year old man who's insisting on his health and vigor to have been laid up with COVID in isolation. Rashetti and Donilon meet with them and they tell him something that hasn't been reported until this book, which is the woman running the Democratic National Convention, which was about three weeks away, was a woman named Mignon Moore, longtime respected Democratic operative. When she got the job in 2023, she formed an ad hoc committee called the what if Committee. Not on the books, but it was just a group of maybe a dozen or so people involved in the convention. And it was, what if the protests in Chicago turn out to be like the protests in the 68 Convention? What if Joe Biden's no longer the nominee? What if this, what if that? After the debate, they started regularly reaching out to the delegates, and they were hearing from the delegates how much bleeding there was going on. And the what if committee told Rashetti and Donilon, if you go to the convention, if the President takes this to the convention, he can still win, but it will be ugly and it will be close. So all of this data, you don't have the support of the senators, it's going to be an ugly battle. Schumer had also told Biden what Donnell and Richetti had not, which is your own pollsters don't think you can win. They think there's a 5% chance that you can win. And that is not what Donilon had been telling the president. Donilon was. The pollsters never talked to Biden. They would talk to Donilon and Rachetti and Donilon would interpret the information. And he's still interpreting it out there. You hear him at Harvard, the Harvard Institute of Politics, talking about it was only a two point race, et cetera, et cetera. Just absolute nonsense. Anyway, I think at the end of the day, a very sick Biden saw the writing on the wall, saw that the only way he was going to win the nomination was with a hideous convention. None of the Democrats in the House, none of the Democrats in the Senate, I'm using none loosely, but few, few in the Democrats in the House, few in the Democrats in the Senate wanted him to be the nominee. And he just saw the writing on the wall. But it took three excruciating weeks.
- [41:46]
Scott Galloway
Just from a Spectator standpoint, it sounds like it would have been such great theater if he'd said, stuck up the middle finger and said, no, I'm going to the convention, I'm going to be the nominee. All hell breaks loose at the convention. And let's assume he didn't get it. I'm curious with the two of you just speculating, trying to game theory it out. Who do you think were the likely, who would have emerged from a contested convention or a bloody convention? Who do you think most likely would have emerged victorious if Biden had decided to go the distance but didn't end up the nominee?
- [42:21]
Alex Thompson
It's such an interesting question because how does Biden brawling, how does it affect Kamala Harris? And does Kamala Harris stick with him completely until the end? When does she break, if at all, and does that sour her chances? Now, black woman as a demographic are the most loyal voting bloc in the Democratic Party. And it was made very clear. We have some reporting that, you know, the many of the black leaders of the party were like, you are not going to step. You know, you're not going to pass over the first black one Vice president. So she had the inside track, but given the connection to Biden, if he went to the convention, it would have been that. That could have actually sunk her. After that, you have to look, there was already sort of what I called in 2023, the Justin case primary, Newsom, JB Pritzker, Gretchen Whitmer were all very subtly laying track just in case. I think J.B. pritzker, given the fact that the convention was in Chicago, the fact that he's a billionaire and has a ton of money and would have said, I'm gonna spend a billion dollars to beat Trump, I guess in my Aaron Sorkin, I actually somehow think that he could have pulled it off. Now, Newsom is like a great political athlete. You know, it'd been interesting to see if he could rally enough delegates, but I think the combination of it being Chicago and the fear of Trump would have made them go with a little bit of a less risky option.
- [43:52]
Scott Galloway
So your money would have been on Pritzker.
- [43:55]
Alex Thompson
Yes.
- [43:55]
Scott Galloway
That's really interesting. So this is a corpus that, you know, that through their machination and process and infrastructure, decided to keep Biden, and that's the Democratic Party. What does this say about the shortcomings of the Democratic Party? And if they engage the two of you, and I'm sure they've asked you this question, what needs to change about the Democratic Party in terms of its ability to. To mature or gestate the best candidate to win the election? What does this reflect about the Democratic machinery and what needs to change?
- [44:34]
Jake Tapper
The last election that I can think of, the last primary election that I can think of, where Democrats actually allowed the Democratic voters to pick the nominee was 2008, when they picked Barack Obama. And remember, the consensus, the Democratic leadership consensus was kind of Hillary Clinton. But there were a number of Democratic candidates that were strong. And ultimately, Iowa voters picked Obama, New Hampshire voters picked Hillary, and then South Carolina voters picked Obama. But it was a very competitive primary, and it was legit. It was legitimate primary. It was contested. It was ugly. They had to have a meeting of the two candidates when it was over, et cetera, et cetera. 2012, obviously, the incumbent Democrat wins. 2016, the DNC is all in for Hillary, and they're not fair to Bernie Sanders. And in fact, Tulsi Gabbard resigns as a member of the Democratic national committee because the DNC is being so unfair to Bernie. 2020, there are all these Machinations because they wanted to stop Bernie. Again, Obama redeeming himself with Biden to a degree, perhaps by helping to convince others to drop out of the race so Democrats could rally against Biden to stop Bernie. And then, of course, what happened in 2020, which is the Democratic Party leaning on state parties to not even permit primaries. I mean, the Dean Phillips campaign had to sue the Wisconsin Democratic Party all the way up to the Wisconsin Supreme Court to even put him on the ballot. And as you note, he wasn't like a real threat. So I would say, while I've heard people like Ezra Klein talk about the weakness of the Democratic Party, this is about the weakness of the Democratic Party or the weakness of parties in general that the Democratic Party is built around, was built around Biden, and the Republican Party is built around Trump. And to a degree, I think that's fair. But I will say the Republicans had a primary and they had strong candidates, and they were on the ballot, and they had debates. Trump didn't participate, but they had debates. And Republican voters picked who they picked, probably aided by Alvin Bragg and Letitia James in ways. But, I mean, I think one of the biggest problems. And Democrats have not asked my advice. I don't know about Alex. I don't think that I'm gonna be getting any invitations to speak anytime soon, but letting voters decide, having open primaries, I mean, whatever you think of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. And I don't think much of him in terms of his views on vaccines. I mean, why was he not allowed to be a candidate, you know, or Marianne Williamson? Why. Why was it such a transgression to allow them to be on a ballot or to have a debate? What's so crazy about that? Dean Phillips, as you know, Scott, he says the main reason he ran was he wanted to force Biden on a debate stage so people could see what he had been seeing behind the scenes. Would that really have been such an awful idea in retrospect?
- [47:51]
Alex Thompson
And I would just add the Democrats, the Democratic Party, I think, truly believe, with a sincere conviction that Trump is an existential threat to democracy. And if you believe that, it's easy to rationalize anything, including in some ways, doing things that are anti Democratic, which is what they did in basically rigging the 2024 primary to ensure that Biden would stay the nominee.
- [48:16]
Scott Galloway
It's so interesting because it's the opposite, isn't it? I remember in 1992, I was a second year in business school, and a friend of mine, her father was a wealthy developer in Sacramento, and she Knew I was into politics and said I had a big Dukakis for President sign in my window. Remember him? And she said, my father's hosting a fundraiser for this unknown governor from Arkansas and he's got no shot whatsoever. No shot, but we're thinking about him for 96 or 2000. And I went and met this guy, and back then it's reported he had a photographic memory and he would get a cue card on everyone in the room. And I'm in a room, second year business school, bad suit, intimidated, in a room, 100 people, and he throws up his arm and he yells, scott. And it comes over to me and the guy goes, I heard you, like me, were raised by a single mother. And he looks me in the eye and he takes my hand and he goes, it wasn't easy, was it? And I remember thinking, and I've gone on to raise money and canvas for the Clintons. Like at that moment, I was all in for any Roger Clinton could have run for something and I was gonna support him. And the primary process in that, it really is just such an incredible process when it's let loose of not only maturing the right person, but maturing the right man or woman for that moment. I mean, I think we underestimate just how powerful a process it is when we let it run. And anything we do to get in the way of that, it's not only not Democratic, it's just stupid. It's an amazing means of vetting the right person at the right moment.
- [50:13]
Jake Tapper
It's been my great privilege to be a campaign reporter. And the two moments that mean the most to me just as a campaign reporter was one covering John McCain in 2000 and watching that. And one of the things that was so interesting about it is he went from being a very conservative guy, except on campaign finance. He was a very experiential guy. Like what he experienced informed his life. And that campaign changed him. Not just the Bush machine bullying him and all that, but he just became much more open minded about different things. And he started teaming up with Democrats on bipartisan legislation. It was just interesting watching a person mature, as you just noted, and seeing the same thing on the Obama side in 2007, he was a shitty candidate. I'd see him in these high school gymnasiums on a Friday night in Armpit, Iowa, and he was awful. He was listless, he was mad that he was there. He missed his wife, he missed his daughters. And like Axelrod and those guys Plouff, they would kick the shit out of him. Like, what are you doing? Do you wanna be president or do you not? And he grew. He grew and became the Barack Obama that got elected president. And seeing that close up is an incredible thing. And I don't think that we've, I'm trying to think, I mean, there was a Republican primary primary this last election, but you know, Donald Trump was essentially an incumbent running. But watching the process really is just great. And Democrats are so fearful, they're so terrified that the party's going to nominate Bernie Sanders or whatever. And it's just like, let the party nominate who they want.
- [51:59]
Scott Galloway
We'll be right back. Support for the show comes from Trinet. Trinet's full range of HR solutions were built for purpose driven companies such as Zaap Surgical. Founded by pioneering neurosurgeon and inventor Dr. John Adler, Zaap Surgical has spent the last decade developing precision brain care solutions that make world class radiological surgery universally accessible, treating more patients with greater accuracy, and charting a new frontier in medicine from physical health to mental well being. And when Dr. Adler needed a provider of HR solutions to help him recruit the best of the best, he went with TriNet. TriNet provides HR solutions to the small and medium sized businesses that put their people first. That's because they know that your company, whether it's a staff of five or 500, would be nothing without the people working there. And by supporting essential HR functions from payroll to compliance to access to benefits, Trinet wants to help you take care of your employees. Trinet can also help you scale, providing industry leading expertise to help help you grow your team, attract top talent and stay competitive regardless of your size. Learn what Trinet can do for your business@trinet.com Vox that's T-R-I N E T.com Vox to get started. Trinet your path Their purpose Support for the show comes from the podcast the World as you'll know it, hosted by science journalists and Yale professor Carl Zimmerman, author of Life's Edge and Airborne. The World as yous Know it is a podcast about the forces shaping the future. This season, Zimmer speaks to some of the most respected scientists in the field of longevity research about what old age could look like in the future. Humans are already living longer than ever, thanks to advances like vaccines, antibiotics and clean water. And with the incredible progress being made in treating deadly conditions, including heart disease and cancer, mortality rates for each have dropped by double digits. Now science is tackling a new challenge, curing aging itself. Will new breakthroughs add even more years to our lives? Can older brains be rewired to function like younger ones and which so called biohacks actually work. Join Carl Zimmer as he investigates what current science is claiming about longevity and get to the bottom what's unbelievable and what's actually possible. You can find the world as you'll know it, the future of aging wherever you get your podcast or you can listen at@avenventine.org podcast that's a V E N-T-I N E.org podcast. Support for this show comes from Nordstrom.
- [54:26]
Jake Tapper
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Scott Galloway
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Jake Tapper
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Alex Thompson
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Scott Galloway
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Jake Tapper
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- [54:47]
Scott Galloway
Shop today in stores online@nordstrom.com or download the Nordstrom app. We're back with more from Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson. So just going back to this notion that we have a tendency or just this narcissism gets in the way, I'll put forth a thesis and I want you guys to respond to it. And I can't help. I've got two great political minds. So I want to talk about a little bit about our current situation. I'm upset that we have this emerging kleptocracy, cachistocracy, whatever ocracy you want to call it. And what I think is worse is I feel like we're feckless and neutered in terms of our resistance to it. I feel there's a total lack of leadership on the Democratic side and arguably the leader of the Democratic Party, I don't know if you'd agree with this, is Senator Schumer. And I think some of that same narcissism and age is coming to fruition there. Do you think there needs to be a process for essentially saying, okay, are these the right people distinct to tenure to represent our party and put up a fight if the election, my understanding is the election we're held today, despite everything we know about this kind of mob family approach to governance, Donald Trump would be reelected again. So Senator Schumer and some of the other people in the Democratic Party, do we still suffer from the same narcissism and inability to put the best people forward to put up the fight?
- [56:24]
Alex Thompson
I mean, I think Chuck Schumer and you talk to many, many Democrats, a lot of people believe Chuck Schumer has lost a few steps. That being said, there is a vacuum. And I think the party is going through a process of reckoning with what just happened. And sometimes those processes take a while. I mean, the Republican Party was in a complete state of catastrophe after 2008, and it wasn't clear if there was any sort of leader that was emerging. And eventually you did have people come forward. And I think that's what's happening with the Democratic Party now amidst that vacuum. To your point, there's a lot of things happening and there is not really an effective opposition.
- [57:10]
Jake Tapper
I mean, it's up to the Democratic senators and House members to pick their leaders. And I don't have advice for Democrats and I don't have advice for Republicans. I personally think that what Democrats, that all of Democrats right now are being blamed for the Biden fiasco. And by that, I mean his decision to run for reelection and his decision to hide his deterioration. Because no one is coming out and saying, as our reporting suggests, this was the fault of President Biden, his wife and his son, and like a number, a few top aides. But this isn't necessarily something that could be laid on the feet of every single elected Democrat in the country. People saw things, but ultimately they were being lied to by a small group of people. My personal view is that until the Democratic Party reckons with that, people are gonna have a very difficult time trusting them on anything. And I think that in the same way the Republican Party had to reckon with the Iraq war until it became, I mean, it took years, years before, I guess it was 2016 when Donald Trump became a nominee who was willing to say that was a mistake. But until then, it was heresy for a Republican to acknowledge that. I don't know how long it's going to take for a Gretchen Whitmer or a Josh Shapiro or a Gavin Newsom or whatever to say, yeah, we got lied to and I didn't do enough as a governor or as a Democratic leader to push on this. But we need, we can't ever let this happen again. And this is my position on this. Xyz. I think that this is the true cross they have to bear. Because, I mean, I just see it with family and friends who are Democrats. I'm a member of the Bull Moose Party, but family and friends who are Democrats who are furious with the Democratic Party. And it can be triggered just by they see Chris Van Hollen going down to El Salvador to meet with undocumented immigrant who's a wife beater. And yes, he should be afforded due process as anybody in this country should be afforded due process. And yes, the Trump administration should abide by the law and all that, but they see energy being directed towards things that are not helpful to them, that they don't understand. And on a hair trigger, they can get mad about it. And when I poke and prod with these friends and family members, and I'm using a. Not a hypothetical, this is an example that happened with somebody. Ultimately, they're still mad about Biden. They just think Democrats are liars. And they don't even like, I mean, it is, I think, to a lot of people and a lot of Democrats, like, finding out that the wizard is behind the curtain or your entire religion is based on, you know, a lie that somebody concocted or, I mean, it's, I think it is a very debilitating thing. You, you, A lot of people are raised, you're a Democrat, you're a Republican, and then you find out that, let's say that you're a, a never Trump Republican. You find out that it actually isn't about strong international relations and free trade and respect for authority, and that it's just actually about Donald Trump. And in this case, it's just like you were raised as a Democrat. And it turns out that it wasn't about anything other than preserving this old man's ego and his desperate cling to power. I mean, I think that that is just severely traumatic.
- [60:55]
Scott Galloway
So I want to put forward a thesis, something we think about a lot here in the Prof. G Universe podcast. And that is, and granted, I'm a hammer, so everything I see as a nail. But my thesis around how we elected a felon and an insurrectionist is that if you look at the groups that pivoted hardest from blue to red, 2020 to 2024 Latinos. And my thesis there is they don't even want to be identified as a group to people under the age of 40, who for the first time aren't doing as well as his or her parents were at 40 or 30. So the country's not working for them. They want to change. And then women 45 to 64. And my thesis is that's the mothers of young men. And at the Democratic National Convention, I saw a parade of special interest groups addressing the very real concerns and issues still facing a lot of these groups. But I didn't see one person talk about or even acknowledge the struggle of the group I believe has fallen furthest fastest in America, and that's young men four times likely to kill themselves three times likely to be addicted. 12 times likely to be incarcerated. I believe that the Democratic Party may have lost the election because they refuse to acknowledge because of a purity test or not meeting a purity test, addressing the issues facing young men in this country and that we drastically need to move away from identity politics and focus on the folks that are really facing the most headwinds in our society right now. And I'm just curious, the Democratic Party's ability to even acknowledge the struggles that young men are facing in this country and if it played a role in the election.
- [62:38]
Alex Thompson
Absolutely. The party has a big problem with young men who feel that the party doesn't care about them or sees their struggles as lesser than other people's struggles. Now, I would also say one of the things that's very hard about this last election is it's very difficult to draw hard and fast lessons from it because Democratic Party sort of like, you know, sort of forfeited. You know, they, they dropped their nominee with 107 days to go and then ran. And then only, you know, she had a lot of money, but she only had 107 days. So I think that's in Democrats I talk to. It's like the single hardest thing for them to reckon with is drawing lessons because it was such a chaotic process. So I think your point is well taken. But I also think what's making a lot of Democrats struggle to figure out why they lost is because you had such a weird process and didn't have like a full. A nominee with a full Runway to make their case.
- [63:44]
Scott Galloway
Jake.
- [63:45]
Jake Tapper
So we talked about this last time we talked, and I actually love talking to you about this because it's a conversation that I've only had with you and Peter Hamby from Puck, who covers a lot of this stuff. My son is now 15 years old and he's a gamer. He's a football fan, starting linebacker on his varsity football team. The Democratic Party has no way of communicating with him. They have no entree into his world. And in fact, it's interesting. I went on a left leaning podcast that shall remain nameless. And we were talking about my kids because I think they were both people without kids. And they asked me about my son and I said he was, you know, he's a football player and he wants to be a policeman. And their joke was about my 15 year old son. Oh, how does he feel about minorities? Like the idea that he wants to be a policeman, therefore he's racist, my son. And like, you know, that was the big laugh. And Then I got dragged in the comments and all that stuff and I thought to myself, this is why you fuckers are losing elections. Like my football playing son, who has no political views. He's 15. He thinks about World War II and gaming and playing linebacker. That's his world. You're deciding he's a racist because he wants to be a cop. And why does he want to be a cop? He wants to be a cop because he wants to help people, you know, and he thinks that's the best way he can help people. And that's how the Democratic Party talks to men. Not just white men, but men. And I mean, I get the idea that they thought Tim Walsh could. What's the term he used? Code switch or something. He thought that he could translate the Democratic Party values because he hunts and fishes and owns a gun and was in the army and drinks a beer. I mean, at least there was an attempt, but I find it just insane that, you know, the party, I mean, Look, I'm, I'm 56 now, so, you know, but I remember when, I mean, I grew up in, in a queen village, which is on the border of South Philadelphia. And like, those were all Democrats, these beer drinking union guys. And probably a lot of them still are, just because Philadelphia is such a one party town. But if there was this thriving Republican Party in Philadelphia, they'd lose a lot of elections. So I don't get what they're doing, but I think it's a lot of what you're saying, like toxic masculinity and white privilege. And these are the things that my son hears when people are talking to him. He's 15, you know, he doesn't. Of course he has privilege. He has privilege because he's white, because he's male, because he's my son, all that. But like, that's not how he sees the world. He's 15.
- [67:00]
Scott Galloway
So we gotta wrap up here because I know you guys are busy, but I'm gonna use this as a segue to talk about media and its impact on elections moving forward. Just a quick stat with respect to Rogan, the 40 million views on YouTube, and the 15 million audio downloads. For Harris to have gotten the same number of impressions, she would have had to have gone on cnn, msnbc, on Fox every night for three hours for two weeks. And that's a lead into my question. Jake, I think you're the king of all media. You're a pilot for Pan Am Airlines. But it's Pan am in the 70s. Traditional media is. I mean, enjoy it. Date a lot of stewardesses, give kids wings, but that industry. I think the sun is passing midday. I think the average age of cable News viewers is 70. And I think one of the big errors of the Democratic Party not figuring out a way to speak to people via podcast. The average age of a podcast listener is 34. And a 70 year old woman watching MSNBC, she knows who she's voting for, whereas 34 year old males tend to focus on economics. And that is a swing issue because no party owns it. Sometimes Democrats are seen as better for the economy and Republicans are seen as better for the economies, which makes no fucking sense given Democrats have created 40 million jobs in the last 40 years and Republicans 1 million. But be that as it may, it's a swing issue. I'm curious how you guys see as CNN and Axios, how you personally are responding or trying to meet the moment around transitioning media or your platforms. How are you guys personally thinking about your message? Are you trying to get into podcasting? What do you think? Traditional media? Just thoughts on the media ecosystem moving forward.
- [68:44]
Jake Tapper
Obviously we're in a tremendous time of disruption. Sir Mark Thompson, the head of CNN right now, is the guy who helped bring the New York Times from a newspaper with a website to a website with a newspaper and making it profitable and making it sustainable. So hopefully he will figure out what to do. And obviously we know that it's not just cable news that's going through this. It's everything. Movies, entertainment, on tv, books. You know, when, when I've this, I've now written seven books and you know, the first few, like all they cared about was hardback sales. And now there's an acknowledgement that Kindle and Audiobook are thriving ways that people are consuming information. So all of which is to say I don't know where this ends up, but CNN and every media organization needs to figure out a way to get to where people are on their phones or on their streaming services. And I mean I agree with everything you're saying. I do not have a podcast. The notion that I will, I don't doubt it.
- [69:57]
Scott Galloway
This is the easiest prediction in history. Jake Tapper will have a podcast.
- [70:01]
Jake Tapper
Yeah, I don't doubt it. I don't doubt that someday I will have a podcast. I mean right now, every day I make sure that I put something on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, substack, everything. I have no idea what's going to live and what's going to die, but I want to make sure that I'm part of it. And I do. I have to believe that there will always be an audience and a desire for people who can just give the news and give analysis without being part of a team, without being a Democrat, without being a Republican who are willing to write a book critical of Joe Biden while also going on air and providing critical analysis of Donald Trump. I gotta believe that that's sustainable. But how do we get there? I don't know, Alex.
- [70:48]
Alex Thompson
The one thing that makes me optimistic is people are always going to want to get new information that they can trust. But to your point, how they get that is changing so rapidly. And even with the, you know, we bring in AI so like commodity news can just be written up by a program, which obviously is going to change our jobs too in huge ways by 2028. But I just think you have to meet the audience where they are. Because I think people will always want new information that they can trust. And so that's the one thing that makes me optimistic because as long as you sort of keep that North Star and just figure out the different ways to get them the information, I think things will be okay.
- [71:37]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, well, this is the easiest. I've been in business my whole life as an operator. Some rip off, the rest is politics. With Jake Tapper, Alex Thompson. Boom. I got a 10% royalty. Gentlemen. Jake Tapper anchors a lead on CNN and serves as the network's chief Washington correspondent. Alex Thompson is a national political correspondent for Axios and a CNN contributor. You're both great at what you do, but I know enough about media. Whenever I read or watch you guys, the thing I appreciate and people don't, I know enough about this business to be dangerous. You guys do the work. Jake doesn't just show up and read off a teleprompter. He does the work off camera. And Alex, I love some of the analysis you do. I can tell every time you write something, you're like asking yourself, what is the inside here? And you spend real time. So you guys do the work. And I'm fans of you both and really appreciate your time and your good work in this important moment.
- [72:34]
Jake Tapper
Thank you. And thank you for doing what you do and thank you for focusing on young men in this country because it is so important. It's in a conversation that we as a society just don't have enough.
- [72:45]
Scott Galloway
Thanks very much, Jake. Thanks, gentlemen.
- [72:47]
Jake Tapper
Thank you.
- [72:56]
Scott Galloway
This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez. Our intern is Dan Shalon. Drew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the propag pod from the Vox Media podcast network. We will catch you on Saturday for no Mercy, no Malice as read by George Hahn. And please follow our Prof. G Markets pod wherever you get your pods for new episodes every Monday and Thursday. In every company, there's a whole system of decision makers, challenges and strategies shaping the future of business at every level. That's why we're running a special three part Decoder Thursday series looking at how some of the biggest companies in the world are adapting, innovating and rethinking their playbooks. We're asking enterprise leaders about some of the toughest questions they're facing today, revealing the tensions, risks and breakthroughs happening behind closed doors. Check out Decoder wherever you get your podcasts. This special series from the Verge is.
- [73:54]
Jake Tapper
Presented by Adobe express. The new McCrispy strip is here. Dip approved by Ketchup Tangy Barbecue Honey Mustard honey mustard Sprite, McFlurry Big Mac sauce Double Dipped in Buffalo and Ranch More Ranch and Creamy Chili McCrispy Strip Dip now at McDonald's. Support for this show comes from WhatsApp. The personal chat on WhatsApp is a place where you share everything from the mundane connections to the memories that mean everything. It's a place that can truly feel like it's your own. And WhatsApp makes sure everything stays protected from outside eyes, even theirs. No one, not even WhatsApp, can see or hear your personal messages. That includes personal calls, plus any documents, photos or media that you share in your personal chat. WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Visit WhatsApp.com privacy to learn more.