Why Happiness Has Nothing to Do With Success — with Arthur Brooks

Summary

The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway
Episode: Why Happiness Has Nothing to Do With Success — with Arthur Brooks
Date: May 20, 2026
Host: Scott Galloway
Guest: Arthur Brooks (Harvard professor, bestselling author, columnist)

Overview

In this special “Getting Your Life Together” episode, Scott Galloway welcomes Arthur Brooks to answer listener questions about the pursuit of happiness, fulfillment, and the intersection of work, relationships, and personal identity. Together, they challenge commonly held beliefs about success, work-life balance, and the linkage between achievement and happiness, offering practical advice and deep insights drawn from both research and lived experience.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Do Achievements and “Doing Everything Right” Sometimes Feel Empty?

(01:25–04:59)

• Listener Question: Despite having a good job, happy marriage, kids, and hobbies, one feels no real fulfillment; everything feels like an obligation.
• Arthur Brooks:
  • Critiques “bro-shaped protocols” and calls out the trap of doing what society tells you to want instead of discovering your own desires.
  • References Jean Paul Sartre’s notion of “good faith” — urges listeners to “do the work” of figuring out what truly matters and start “chipping away” unnecessary activities.
  • Quote:

    “You don’t have to go do a bunch of new things...you just need to start chipping away the marble that is the statue so you can find the real piece of artwork that’s within.” (01:49)

• Scott Galloway:
  • Suggests differentiating true unhappiness from the natural stress and work that comes during career and family-building years.
  • Quote:

    “I think young kids are not—I think that’s a lie, that young kids are amazing. I think they’re a lot of work and a lot of stress...In some ways it’s a distinction between: are you unhappy, or are you kind of where you should be, putting in the work?” (02:49)

• Arthur Brooks:
  • Shares happiness data: enjoyment tends to decrease in 20s-40s while meaning increases, leading to a “renaissance” for many in their 50s and 60s—unless certain mistakes are made.
  • Quote:

    “Your 50s and 60s are freaking awesome...The explanation for [post-achievement emptiness] is that happiness is a combination of enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning. In your 20s, 30s, and 40s, your enjoyment is falling, but your meaning is rising.” (03:41)

---

2. Work-Life Balance Myths and “Being Found” in Relationships

(04:59–14:32)

• Listener Question: In late 20s, how to prioritize between career and relationships, and how to find the right partner when busy?
• Arthur Brooks:
  • Calls “work-life balance” a “huge lie”—the real aim should be integration.
  • Suggests assessing if work/home enhance or detract from each other, rather than keeping them opposed.
  • Quote:

    “Work-life balance is a huge lie...We need work-life integration, not work-life balance.” (05:14)

• Scott Galloway:
  • Admits to sacrificing personal life in his 20s for career, acknowledges the rewards, regrets some costs (e.g., lost hair and first marriage).
  • Notes gendered realities: men tend to retain “sexual currency” with age if successful, world is less fair to women; argues against myths that women must choose between career and family.
  • Quote:

    “If I found someone I was interested in romantically, I found the time...So I think it's very situational based on who they are, the current situation.” (06:32)

• Arthur Brooks:
  • Shares his own career “spiral” and the greater happiness among women professionals who adapt and shift priorities over time.
  • Introduces Michael Driver’s “spiral career” concept: happiest professionals adapt (dial back, re-enter, switch industries) as circumstances change—women tend to do this better.
  • Quote:

    “Women who have what Michael Driver...talked about—the spiral career—the happiest professionals are not these linear guys like you and me...Women are really good at spiraling their careers...those who do it well are happier than men.” (08:36)

• Galloway & Brooks on Choosing a Partner:
  • Galloway: The most important decision is who you partner and have kids with—good partnerships outweigh professional success.
  • Brooks: Amends to emphasize “allowing yourself to be found,” paralleling the advice for being lost in the woods: sometimes you must “stay put” and be open.
  • Universal religious theme: marriage/partnership as a way to further spiritual growth or self-actualization (regardless of belief in an afterlife).
  • Quote:

    “It’s very important to allow yourself to be found by the right partner as well...to be open to what you want—the universe, gears will turn, and allow yourself to be found.” (10:42)

  • Quote:

    “Find the person who wants to help you become a better version of yourself.” (11:45)

  • Galloway: "It wasn’t that I found the exact right person...I was in a period of my life where I was ready to commit. You pass each other, hopefully, when you’re both in a zone where you’re ready to make the investment." (12:42)

---

3. Failure, Regret, and Self-Worth

(15:21–23:48)

• Listener Question: Why does failure hit so much harder than logic suggests, and how can one stop tying self-worth to performance?
• Arthur Brooks:
  • Attributes this to high standards, fear of failure, and “super striver” mentality.
  • Recommends the “Failure Journal” exercise:
    • Write down failures, leave two blank lines.
    • After three weeks: write what you learned.
    • After two months: write something good that came from it.
    • Over time, learn to value lessons and growth over the pain.
  • Quote:

    “These things are tied up together with striving and fear...Here’s a method: the failure journal...you’re going to start looking forward to writing down your failures because they become a source of generativity, as opposed to a source of misery.” (15:34)

• Scott Galloway:
  • Reflects on personal “addictions” to money and affirmation, driven by childhood scarcity and insecurity.
  • Describes how fear of failure translates into a deeper “fear of shame”—public disapproval or letting others down hurts more than failure itself.
  • Quote:

    “I have a bigger fear of shame. And when I screw up...I get dragged online and it bums me out. Bums me out less than it used to, but it still bums me out.” (19:10)

• Mortality as Comfort:
  • Galloway (as atheist) draws comfort from the brevity of life: everyone, including critics, “will be dead soon.”
  • Highlights research by Adam Alter on top regrets at the end of life: not staying in touch with friends, not living the life you wanted, and being too hard on oneself.
  • Quote:

    “The number one regret is they wish they’d been less hard on themselves...At the end of your life...you’re not going to regret the failure, you’re going to regret how hard you were on yourself. So try to forgive yourself.” (19:29)

• Arthur Brooks:
  • Adds that older people are happier partly because they learn emotional equilibrium—disappointments pass faster, caring what others think fades.
  • Quote:

    “What feels like it’s going to be permanent misery is probably 24 hours of discomfort. They get a head start on not caring.” (21:01)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Arthur Brooks on Meaning & Happiness:

  “Happiness is a combination of enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning. In your 20s, 30s, and 40s, your enjoyment is falling, but your meaning is rising.” (03:41)

• Galloway on Partnership:

  “The most important decision you’ll ever make is who you choose to partner with, specifically who you choose to have kids with.” (10:08)

• Brooks’s Advice to Strivers:

  “Anybody who makes you earn their love doesn’t love you. Red flag...If you’re married to somebody who makes you earn their love, your spouse doesn’t love you. Big problem in your life.” (22:08)

• Galloway on Regrets:

  “At the end of your life, with real perspective, you’re not going to regret the failure—you’re going to regret how hard you were on yourself. So try to forgive yourself.” (19:29)

• Arthur Brooks’s Wisdom on Aging:

  “Get a head start on not caring, for Pete’s sake. This is why 80-year-olds tend to be happier than 30-year-olds.” (21:01)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:25 — First listener question: “I have everything but feel empty.”
• 02:49 — Galloway’s distinction: unhappiness vs. hard work phase.
• 03:41 — Brooks: data on happiness, enjoyment, meaning across the life cycle.
• 04:59 — Second listener question: career vs. relationships.
• 05:14 — Brooks’s “work-life integration” insight.
• 06:32 — Galloway on gender, career, and relationship trade-offs.
• 08:36 — Brooks: “spiral careers” and women’s happiness.
• 10:42 — How to “allow yourself to be found,” choosing the right partner.
• 12:42 — Galloway: readiness trumps finding "the one".
• 15:21 — Third listener question: coping with failure and self-worth.
• 15:34 — Brooks describes the “failure journal” technique.
• 19:29 — Galloway discusses regret and self-forgiveness.
• 21:01 — Brooks on how emotional maturity increases happiness with age.
• 22:08 — Love as a free gift, warning against conditional relationships.
• 23:48 — Show wrap-up, closing mutual appreciation.

---

Takeaways

• Self-knowledge & “Chipping Away”: Fulfillment isn’t found in following prescribed protocols but in clarifying what genuinely matters, then shedding the rest.
• Work-Life Integration, not Balance: Instead of fighting to “balance” two separate domains, aim for synergy; let work and life benefit each other or adjust when they don’t.
• Relationships & Readiness: Finding a great partner is about being ready and open—sometimes being found, not just seeking.
• Failure as Growth: Tracking failures and reflecting with time transforms painful setbacks into lessons and, eventually, wins.
• Regret & Forgiveness: The hardest regret is being too hard on oneself. As you age, prioritize forgiving yourself and caring less about external opinions.
• Conditional Love is Not Love: Don’t trade time with close ones for approval from strangers; real love is not earned, but freely given.

---

Episode Tone: Candid, humorous, reflective, data-driven, with both hosts blending hard truths and optimism, supplemented by personal anecdotes and research-backed insights.

---

Transcript

[Canva Announcer]

Support for the show comes from Canva. What's your next big thing? Whatever it is, you can design it with Canva. From presentations powered by AI to social media posts, from logos all the way to websites. Whatever your idea is, you can make it a thing in Canva. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing. Learn [e-mail].

[Scott Galloway]

Welcome to PropG on getting your life together, a special series where we're joined by Arthur Brooks, Harvard professor, bestselling author and columnist at the Free Press. We went to our listeners with one question. What's the biggest thing holding your life back right now? Today we're going to try and help. We talk about burnout, distraction, purpose, and building a life that feels more intentional. Arthur, welcome.

[Arthur Brooks]

Hey, thank you. It's great to be with you. How are you today? Where are you today?

[Scott Galloway]

I'm in London on what is an unusually beautiful sunny day. How about you?

[Arthur Brooks]

I'm in Northern Virginia. I live outside Washington, D.C. actually.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, nice. My son is going to be a freshman at uva.

[Arthur Brooks]

That's great. It's great here. We actually moved back here from Boston to get all the kids and grandkids in the same general area, including in the same house. So I was reading my own research that said you should have your family all in the same place. Yeah. And it turns out to be great. We've got a compound. Right. It's a culture, I think.

[Scott Galloway]

Nice. That's that. We'll have a longer conversation, but that's. That's my plan anyways. Let's bust right into it. Our first question is, I have a good job, a happy marriage, kids and hobbies, but I still can't get real fulfillment out of any of it. I'm stretched so thin that everything feels like an obligation. Why is that? I built the life I was told I want to and still feel empty. Arthur.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, I mean, I'm going to channel Scott Galloway here because you're doing what you were told you're supposed to want as opposed to doing what you want. You didn't do the hard work of actually figuring out what it is that you want. And what people told you that you wanted was a bunch of bro shaped protocols, a bunch of lists of things, and you're trying to do all of it. And the result of it is that that's the definition of being stretched too thin. What we need to do as people of good faith, and by the way, I use that expression on purpose. That's what Jean Paul Sartre talked about, is actually figuring out the essence of your life is good faith is to do the work, to figure out what actually it is that you want, which is probably a subset of the things that you're currently doing. You don't have to go do a bunch of new things. You don't need to add more brushstrokes to your canvas. You just need to start chipping away the marble that is the statue so that you can find the real piece of artwork that's within. You need to start taking some things away, but you have to start with the work.

[Scott Galloway]

The only thing I would try and discern between for this gentleman is if he's really unhappy or if he's just putting in the work and the stress. That's part of getting ahead. I think young kids are not. I think that's a lie, that young kids are amazing. I think they're a lot of work and a lot of stress. I think marriages, when you're trying to make your career or get some trajectory in your career, it puts a lot of strain on the marriage. So in some ways, it's a distinction between are you unhappy and have fallen into the trap. You're talking about of thinking that what's supposed to make me happy will and you made a mistake or two are quite frankly, kind of where you should be. And that is putting in the work and making the investments in family, relationship and work such that you can have a little bit more balance when you're a little bit older. Any closing thoughts, Arthur?

[Arthur Brooks]

No. That's great. And actually, that's very astute because, you know, you've seen the. The. The data on how people get happier as they get older, and most people think they're going to get happier from their twenties to thirties and forties, and they actually get unhappier from the twenties to thirties and forixties, and then in their fifties, it turns around, and you and I can attest to this. Your 50s and 60s are freaking awesome. They're awesome. It's a renaissance. If you're not addicted to drugs and alcohol or clinically depressed, there's going to be. It's like a bonanza. And then what really matters is the decisions that you make that will determine whether or not you're in the half of the population that gets happier all the way to the end, or you start back down again, which about half the population does around age 70. And that's a different conversation, of course. But the big surprise for a lot of people is when my dreams start coming true, because I did all this work, I thought I was going to be happier, but I'm not. And the explanation for that is really in the corner pocket of what you just said. Scott. Happiness is a combination of enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning. And in your 20s, 30s, and 40s, your enjoyment is falling, but your meaning is rising. The enjoyment is how you measure how happy you are from moment to moment and from day to day. And when that's going down, you feel like you're getting less happy, whereas actually your life is getting more meaningful. And that's the big payoff in your 50s and 60s. And so that's very likely what's happening with our young friend.

[Scott Galloway]

I like that. Let's move on to question number two. Our next question is I'm in my late 20s and feel like I'm constantly having to choose between my career and my relationships. How do I know when to prioritize love? And how do I even find the right person when I'm this busy?

[Arthur Brooks]

Arthur, that's a work life balance question. It's a classic work life balance question, and that's generally a misapprehension of how your life is supposed to work. Work life balance is a huge lie. And the reason is because it distinguish. It distinguishes between work and life. I mean, look, you and me, it's like some of the best, most fun times we've had in our lives. They're work, you know, that's actually the work. But our work isn't our whole lives. You and I are family men. We're married. We love our wives, we love our kids. In my case, I'm crazy about my grandsons. I got a ton of grandsons. It's the best. And the point is that my work makes my home life better, and my home life makes my work life better, which means you need work life integration, not work life balance. And so when you're going crazy, you're going, you know, you're, you're wrapped around the axle, and all the decisions that you're trying to make is probably because you're actually trying to adjudicate between work and life, not saying, okay, is my work making my home life better or worse? Am I, am I having a screaming argument with my wife all the time because I'm spending the 14th hour at the office instead of the first hour with my kids? Or is it that it my, my home life is infringing on my ability to be successful in my career? And if either one of those is the case, it means you're not integrating the two appropriately. You're thinking about it wrong. What's Your view, Scott?

[Scott Galloway]

I think it's situational. I think I'm more pragmatic, cynical, and that is I gave up most of my 20s when I should have been finding a mate for work. And I'm trying to be funny here, but there's some truth to this. I say that I had no balance. I agree with you. The work life balance thing is a myth. I just worked all the time, so. But I got a lot of reward. And unfortunately, I probably. I get an unhealthy amount of my identity from work. And I would say it cost me my hair and it cost me my first marriage, and it was worth it. And I'm being just somewhat tongue in cheek there, because I now have a lot of balance now. And the cruel truth of the world is that it's very sexist when it comes to this, and that is if you're a dude working just your ass off such that you can get influence and economic security, the payoff, quite frankly, is that men with a certain amount of economic viability don't lose a lot of sexual currency as they get older. And I think the world is more unfair with women. Now, having said that, I think this myth that women shouldn't work and focus on finding a mate, I also think that's bullshit. As a matter of fact, fertility goes up as women make more money. So the notion you're not going to have a family, kind of the Charlie Kirk myth that you're giving up kids if you focus on your career, I think that's total bs, too. But what, you know, I have found, I would question a little bit of it, because I found, as a guy, if I found someone I was interested in romantically, I found the time. I just kind of figured it out. Even I was working at Morgan Stanley, where they. I was working 80 hours a week. And if I said I had a date, they were like, wow, that is literally like the solstice. Give Scott the night off. Let him leave a little bit early. So I think it's very situational based on who they are, the current situation. I think this is a tough one. And I also recognize. I don't know what I don't know because I'm so out of the dating market. Help save me for myself here, Arthur.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, no, I completely get it. I'm out of the dating market, too, and my chronic workaholism. I've had four distinctly different careers, starting as a. I was a French horn player all the way through my 20s, playing in symphony orchestras. And then I got my Ph.D. i was a college professor and then I was a think tank chief executive. I ran a big think tank in D.C. and now I have this happiness business and four distinctly different things. And the way that I ran those things was by working 80 hours a week through my entire career and it cost me my hair. But not by marriage. You know, thank God, because I had this partner who was along with me and tried to moderate these ideas for me. And one of the things that's pretty interesting is the other side of the sexist coin is this that women who actually figure out the balance issue are much happier than men. So men in their 20s and 30s who tried to get enough balance because they know it's the right thing to do, they're not always very happy. But women who do are blissfully happy. And so women who have what? Michael Driver, the great USC psychologist who died a couple of years ago, he talked about the spiral career which is the happiest professionals are not these linear guys like you and me. Next thing, next thing, next thing, next thing, there are people who actually will dial down, dial up, you know, change industries. Women are really good at spiraling their careers. They'll come out of college, they'll do something, you know, move to New York, do something professional, get married, dial back, go part time while they raise their kids, come back into the workforce in a non profit role. Perhaps change industries and those who do it well, they're happier than men.

[Scott Galloway]

Do you I've said that I think the most important decision you'll ever make is who you choose to partner with, specifically who you choose to have kids with. That you can be marginally successful professionally. And if you have a good partnership, you'll figure it out, you can be very successful. And if you have a bad partnership, it's just a life full of disappointment and anxiety when I imagine you agree with that. But then how do I'm trying to think how I reconcile with focusing on work versus the time invested to find the right partner. Do you have any thoughts on how you find the right partner? What the right versus wrong criteria are the right partner?

[Arthur Brooks]

And I'll amend what you said because I completely agree, obviously. But I'll amend that to say it's very important to allow yourself to be found by the right partner as well. And one of the biggest things, it's interesting because people who are in search mode for anything, for the perfect career, for the perfect partner, they're violating the first principle of what you do when you're lost, if you're lost in the woods, Any Eagle Scout watching us right now knows, stay put. Don't start wandering around the woods. You're less likely to be found, and you're more likely to starve to death or freeze to death or get eaten by a bear. Stay put and take care of yourself until they actually find you. And that's one of the most important things to do, is to be open to what you want. The universe, gears will turn, and to allow yourself to be found, which is really, really critical. Important. Most people who are real seekers and not finding what they want is because they actually are not allowing themselves to be found. They're not actually. They don't understand that they're sought in this particular way. And so anyway, that's a slight amendment to what you're talking about here. But I think that under the circumstances, that the right kind of partner is the one who wants to. I mean, every religious community in the world that believes in an afterlife, they all believe. And again, I realize that this doesn't include you or many of our listeners, but what they all have in common is that they believe that marriage, the permanent romantic partnership, is an antenna to God. The Hindus believe this, the Muslims believe this, the Christians and Jews believe this. They all believe that it's an antenna to God. Which is why most people have a vocation to marriage, is because they want God. And they're not going to understand God until they actually get married, and especially until they have children. It's a divine thing, is what it comes down to. So therefore, in these religions, you have to look for somebody or allow yourself to be found by somebody who's going to walk you into heaven. Okay? Now, the secular version of this, even if you're an atheist, find the person who wants to help you become a better version of yourself.

[Scott Galloway]

I love that. So something you said there that was somewhat illuminating for me or spawned a thought, was that when you're out and you're serious about finding a mate, you know, I always say, always default to yes. You get invited to a dinner party, you're tired, go to the dinner party, you meet someone, it's not sparks, but maybe they ask you up for a second coffee. Say yes to the second coffee. You just don't know where it might go. Just have a propensity towards yes. No one's going to find you at home. But what I have found is that it was never that I found. It wasn't that I found the exact right person and she became my partner. It was that I was in a period of my life where I was ready to commit to somebody. And I don't buy this notion of soulmates. You pass each other, hopefully when you're both in a zone where you're ready to make the investment in a relationship and you build something together. But I don't know. And my partner would kill me if she said this. I'm not sure she was the one. She was the one at the right moment, if you will. Any closing comments? Barth?

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, no, for sure. And again, if you believe in the metaphysics of this, then the right moment is a divine thing as well as the person is a divine thing. And so it folds up into being. Effectively the same solution is the way that this works. But the whole point is that what you just said was you got to a particular point in your life and you allowed yourself to be found. And you were. So when I'm talking to a lot of young men and women, which is my graduate students at hbs, a lot of young people that I talk to. I mean, I'm sort of the 28 year old Striver Whisperer at this point in my career that I can't find anybody. No, no, no, no. You're not allowing yourself to be found. Let's talk about that. You're wandering around the forest. It's time for you to allow yourself to be saw.

[Scott Galloway]

Love that. All right, we'll be right back after a quick break.

[Canva Announcer]

Support for the show comes from Canva. An idea is just an idea, but actually transforming that idea into a thing, that's where the real work lives. It can be a journey full of pitfalls and banging your head against the

[Scott Galloway]

wall, or it could be a lot

[Canva Announcer]

easier than that with Canva. Canva is packed with templates and design tools to turn your idea into something real. From presentations powered by AI to social media posts, logos and websites, we whatever your ideas, you can make it a thing in Canva. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing. Learn [e-mail].

[Scott Galloway]

Welcome back onto our last question. I try not to spiral every time I make a mistake at work, but it's hard. Why does failure hit so much harder than it logically should? And how do I stop tying my self worth to my performance?

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, this is pretty classic, especially for people who have very, very high standards and who have a lot of fear. And that describes a lot of people who are going to Prof. G followers and people who listen to my show as well. These are super strivers, people who are really, really hard workers and they're deeply, deeply, deeply afraid of failure. And by the way, me too. I am terrified of failing. I am utterly propelled by a fear of failure. Even though I do all kinds of stuff and I fail constantly. Right. It's sort of. The fear is a kind of fuel. And so these things are tied up together with striving and fear. I get it. Here's a method for actually getting out of that cycle of misery, but actually turning the inevitable failures into a source of learning and growth. And this is what we call in my classes the failure journal. So the way that this works is that whenever something happens that's inevitably disappointing, that feels like a failure that doesn't go the way that you want, you write it down. I mean, write it down. It's actually most cognitively impactful if you do with a paper and pencil, believe it or not, it's actually not as good on your phone. But anyway, whatever, however you do it, leave two lines blank below it in this failure journal. Now, obviously, don't let people find it. Come back to it after three weeks and in the first line below the entry, write, what did you learn in the meantime? And then the line below that, come back after two months and write down something good that happened. Now, it doesn't mean you're going to be happy that it happened, but something good has happened. I'll give you an example. You know, you get a bad performance review at work even though you thought you were doing a really good job. This is classic for 22 year olds. You know, they go into their first job and they've been getting straight A's in college and they've been told that they're very special and, and they go into the workplace and they're ordinary or maybe below average. They thought they were A pluses and they're getting B minuses. Okay? So that's a huge disappointment, really crushing loss. And their friends are like, just forget it. Your boss is a jerk. The whole thing. No, no, no, no, no. Write it down. I thought I was doing a superior performance and my boss told me I wasn't. And it's really, really bumming me out. Okay, three weeks later you're going to come back and you're going to say, I learned that I wasn't as good a fit as I thought I was. That's what I learned. And that is very valuable information. And two months later you come back and you say, you know, I actually went on the job market and I found something that I think is going to be a better fit. Then what happens is that the next time you put in an entry, you're going to see all the ones above you, and you're learning and growth, and you're going to start looking forward to writing down your failures and disappointments because they become a source of generativity as opposed to a source of misery.

[Scott Galloway]

I think about this a lot because. So I don't have an answer. I. I can just have what I do to not solve this problem, but to diminish it, because it's a big problem for me. I think everyone has a certain level of a addiction in their life. I'm addicted to money. I don't need more. And I keep sacrificing relationships and time with family to try and make more money.

[Arthur Brooks]

But that's scoreboard, right, Scott? That's scoreboard.

[Scott Galloway]

I think that's right. I also think it's because when I was young, I don't wanna say I had trauma, but I grew up with no money. And so I always feel insecure about money no matter how much I have. I just can't. I can't resist a speaking gig because I'm like, okay, this is five years of my mother's salary. I don't care what's going on with my kids. I'm gonna take it anyways.

[Arthur Brooks]

I grew up the same way. I know it's a problem.

[Scott Galloway]

It really is. And then the other addiction, and it's more pathetic, is I'm addicted to the affirmation of others.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

And that is I have a fairly healthy fear of failure. What I've figured out as I've gotten older is I have a bigger fear of shame. And when I screw up or I say something stupid or I say something that my audience doesn't align with their political views, I get dragged online and it bums me out. Bums me out less than it used to, but it still bums me out.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

And my practice for trying to minimize that sense of failure or shame is the following one. Arthur. I get the sense you're actually quite religious. I'm an atheist, and my atheism gives me a lot of power or comfort because I was 21 yesterday. I'm 61 now. That was a blink. The next half a blink, I'll be dead. And so will they. And the notion. I find real comfort in knowing we're all going to be dead soon. And anybody who are worried about what they think about you is going to be dead soon, too. In addition to. There's a lot of research, Adam Altzer, my colleague at nyu, also has an appointment in the psychology Department did a lot of work on regrets. And the three biggest regrets of people are they wish they'd stayed in touch with friends. They wish they'd led the life they wanted to lead, not the life society or their parents wanted them to lead. But their number one regret is they wish they'd been less hard on themselves. And you just need to know that when you look back on that failure or perceived failure at work. One, people go, oh, they're not as good or they did something stupid, and then they go back to thinking about themselves. And two, at the end of your life, when you have real perspective, you're not going to regret the failure. You're going to regret how hard you were on yourself. So try to forgive yourself and recognize that when you do something bad or your performance isn't great, all the people you're worried about letting down or what have you, they're going to go back to thinking about themselves. And as you get older, the only upset you're gonna have is at how upset you were. Forgive yourself.

[Arthur Brooks]

Yeah, that's very wise. That's very wise. Get a head start on not caring, for Pete's sake. This is, by the way, one of the reasons that 80 year olds tend to be happier than 30 year olds is because they're disappointed and offended just as easily. But they know themselves emotionally. They actually have an intuitive understanding of the functioning of their limbic system. And they know that what feels like it's gonna be permanent misery is actually probably 24 hours of discomfort. And so they get a head start on not caring. That's literally what happens with 80 year olds who have an emotional equilibrium. One side note about this, by the way, because I think that this is an area that you and I. You were born in 1964.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, God, yes.

[Arthur Brooks]

Me too. Me too, brother. Me too.

[Scott Galloway]

When?

[Arthur Brooks]

May 21st.

[Scott Galloway]

All right. Yeah. Thank God you're older than me. That makes me feel better.

[Arthur Brooks]

But anyways, when were you born? What's your birthday?

[Scott Galloway]

No, I'm almost technically Gen X. I call myself Gen X. You're definitely a baby. But we're Arthur anyways.

[Arthur Brooks]

Oh, yeah, no, I'm such a boomer. Yeah, that's right. So apparently between May and. When's your birthday? November. Yeah, okay. Between May and November, that's when we went from Catholicism to atheism or something. Maybe that's what happened.

[Scott Galloway]

That's what happened.

[Canva Announcer]

Yeah.

[Arthur Brooks]

But the key thing to keep in mind for a lot of people our age, people who are watching us and, you know, we're the luckiest guys in the world. We really are. I mean, it's just, you know, we've got money, we've got the careers that we want, we have a marriage. We have. It's great, is completely great. But there's one thing to keep in mind about almost all strivers is that they tend to be quite workaholic, which is downstream as an addiction from an addiction to success. And success is all about the feeling of winning. And generally speaking, it ties to a particular pattern in childhood where you really only got attention and affection from adults when you did something, when you got straight, as in the report card or pitcher, you made picture on the team or something. And so your synaptically plastic brain concludes that love is earned. And newsflash, love is a free gift, freely given. It's a grace. Anybody who makes you earn their love doesn't love you. That includes strangers. That includes sycophantic taker friends, people who want your money. That's what they all have in common. If you're married to somebody who makes you earn their love, your spouse doesn't love you. Red flag. Bigger than red flag. There's a big problem in your life. But if you're going forth in the world, like so many of us do all the time, without thinking about it, trying to earn everybody's love, including the approbation of strangers, this torques your relationships and makes true love harder to keep and maintain. I mean, you'll trade away an hour with your wife in order to have the applause of strangers, for Pete's sake. If you have this particular pathology and it's not healthy, and I think that you and I and a lot of people watching us suffer from this, 100%,

[Scott Galloway]

we're going to end here. But I always learn so much when I watch you. And the one thing you just said that really is going to stick with me in terms of confidence as you get older, is you get a head start on not caring.

[Arthur Brooks]

I love that. I love.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna put that. I need. I need a head start on not caring. Arthur Brooks is a Harvard professor, bestselling author and columnist at the Free Press. His latest book, the Meaning of youf Life, is available now. Arthur, that was great. Thanks very much.

[Arthur Brooks]

Thank you, Scott. Great to see you as always. Like looking in the mirror, kind of.

[Scott Galloway]

There you go. Likewise. This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez and Laura Geniere. Cammie Rica is our social producer, Brad Williams is our editor, and Drew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the prophecy pod from propag Media.

[Canva Announcer]

Thanks to Canva for their support. With incredible tools to boost your design and productivity, Canva can help turn that idea into an actual thing. From presentations powered by AI to social media posts, from logos to websites, it's time to turn that idea into something real. Canva. It's the thing that makes anything a thing. Learn more at canva. Com.