The Promised Podcast: “No Guide to the Perplexed” Edition
TLV1 Studios | July 31, 2025

Overview

This week’s episode of The Promised Podcast, hosted by Noah Efron with panelists Alison Kaplan Sommer and Linda Gradstein, delves deeply into two urgent topics: the escalating humanitarian crisis in Gaza and the global move towards recognizing a Palestinian state. As always, the show examines these issues through the prism of Israeli society and culture, mixing historical context, personal anecdotes, and pointed debate. Woven through the discussion are reflections on Tisha B’Av, Israeli identity, and the tension between despair and hope.

Opening: Lifeguard Heroics & Breaking Barriers

[00:32-12:20]

• Celebrating the First Female Lifeguard:
  Host Noah opens with a homage to Tel Aviv’s Jerusalem Beach, recently making history by hiring 24-year-old Tamar Milisov as its first female lifeguard.

  • “I always loved the sea, but as a child I didn't think it could become my profession. When you go to the beach in Israel, you only see male lifeguards... One day I realized that this is what I wanted to do.” – Tamar Milisov [03:40]
  • She highlights the impact her presence has on women’s safety and role modeling: “When there is a female lifeguard on duty... women on the beach feel safer... The first time I made an announcement over the loudspeaker, the whole beach stood still and watched.” [04:10]

• Historical Dive:
  Noah traces the storied legacy of Tel Aviv’s lifeguards, spotlighting unique figures like Shlomo Al Kasof, the first deaf lifeguard, who invented the “hasaka,” a now iconic flotation board.

• Personal Connections:
  Linda shares a moving story of her son Nitanel rescuing a drowning swimmer after hours on the very same beach—showcasing the enduring heroism and community spirit fostered by Tel Aviv’s beachfront culture.
  [08:35] Linda: “Last year, Nitanel was out on the hasaka... and there was somebody drowning... He and another man helped bring this person in.”

Segment 1: Tisha B'Av – Mourning, Rebuilding, and Israeli Identity

[12:20-30:43]

• Historical Reflection:
  Noah explores how Zionism has long grappled with the meaning of Tisha B’Av, the day of Jewish mourning for the destruction of the Temple, especially after events like the Six-Day War and the reuniting of Jerusalem.

  • He profiles the Movement for the Judaism of the Torah, which in 1967 discussed renewing halacha in the modern Israeli context, questioning lament amid nation-building.
  • Vivid examples from Israeli history show how the day oscillates between grief for destruction and pride in national rebirth.
    • “[How] can we sing songs of lamentation? How can we taste ash on our tongues? When... we have returned to the cisterns, to the market and the square... a thousand suns glow again?” – Noah quoting Naomi Shemer and the discussions post-1967 [15:18-16:45]

• Ongoing Tension:

  • Noah emphasizes that the struggle between lamentation and rebuilding defines the Israeli experience, refusing easy triumph or straightforward sorrow.
    • “...What the last hundred and something years of Tisha B’Av show, maybe most of all, is that the lamentation and desolation and destruction on the one hand, and the hope and the rebuilding on the other, they go together. The one never really replaces the other.” [29:00]

Segment 2: Discussion 1 – Gaza’s Humanitarian Crisis (“No Guide to the Perplexed”)

[34:51-59:07]

Situation Overview

• Alison’s Introduction:
  • Alison underscores the unprecedented extent of suffering in Gaza; reports of famine, mass displacement, and insufficient humanitarian aid abound.
    • “...Hundreds of thousands of Gazans have been so short on food for long enough now that dozens have already died of malnutrition and thousands more may die over the next days and weeks.” [34:55]
  • She draws on firsthand reporting and interviews with colleagues in touch with Gaza residents, noting the challenge of discerning fact from propaganda but affirming the severity and urgency of the crisis.

Debate & Analysis

• Responsibility and Limits of Knowledge:

  • Linda asserts: “Israel is in total control of Gaza right now... Israel is responsible for what happens in Gaza... malnutrition, perhaps famine, starvation... is simply not acceptable under the control of a Jewish country.” [40:53]

    • She acknowledges both Hamas’ theft of aid and chaos in distribution, as well as Israel’s decisive but insufficient recent measures (like partial ceasefires and airdrops).

  • Noah pushes for nuance, distinguishing types of “responsibility”:

    • “There are at least two importantly different meanings... Israel has to do its part to find a solution... But saying Israel is responsible in the sense that Israel single-handedly caused this, I think is not true.” [49:30]
    • He details recent efforts, such as the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, and the staggering logistical/statistical challenge of distributing 90 million meals—but notes the system’s tragic flaws.

• Moral Outrage and Journalistic Limitations:

  • Alison expresses frustration with arguments over semantics and total responsibility, pointing to the lived reality of Gazans whose lives have been devastated regardless of cause:
    • “There are far, far too many thousands of people... towards the starving plate. You may not be starving to death, but you've lost your job, you've lost your income, you've lost your home and you have no way of getting... humanitarian distribution. You're hungry. I mean, things are terrible there.” [51:02]
  • They debate the opacity of Gaza’s situation—journalist Mati Friedman’s skepticism versus advocates for more journalistic access.

• Personal Perspective:

  • Linda shares details of a Gazan friend, Yara, who is unable to access aid:
    • “I asked her, why don't you go to one of these GHF centers? And she said, it's not safe... She said, it's embarrassing to me to have to ask you [for money]. I have nothing to eat...” [54:13]

Consensus and Points of Tension

• All agree: massive humanitarian assistance is desperately needed, and whatever the cause, the status quo is indefensible.
• Points of continued friction:
  • Degree of Israel’s moral and logistical responsibility vs. Hamas’ role
  • Effectiveness and morality of innovative but flawed aid distribution models
  • The impact of international media narratives and access limitations

Segment 3: Discussion 2 – Recognizing a Palestinian State: Symbol or Strategy?

[60:27-73:01]

Context

• President Macron’s Announcement:
  Linda summarizes Macron’s public commitment—supported by the UK, Canada, and others—to recognizing Palestinian statehood in September, contingent on developments in Gaza. Macron’s criteria include Hamas’s disarmament and full Israeli recognition.

  • Macron: “We must build the state of Palestine, guarantee its violence viability and ensure that by accepting its demilitarization and fully recognizing Israel, it contributes to the security of all in the region. There is no alternative.” [60:30]

• Israeli Political Reactions:

  • Strong condemnation across Israeli government spectrum—Netanyahu and Foreign Minister Gidon Sar frame it as irresponsibly rewarding terrorism; even opposition leader Benny Gantz calls the move “empty and fanciful.”

Analysis

• Is it Realistic?

  • Alison sees the moves as pressure, not serious near-term policy:
    • “I don't know how much I take it seriously as a serious proposal. What it is supposed to be is a serious threat... I don't think that's actually going to change the reality on the ground.” [64:52]
  • Noah notes the plan’s similarity to previous Israeli-Palestinian negotiation frameworks, observing that if Macron’s vision could be enacted by fiat, it would be “a really good thing for Israel.” [66:17]

• Domestic and Diplomatic Fallout:

  • The panel acknowledges practical obstacles (disunity among Palestinians, Israel’s political impasse), but Linda remarks on the significance of diplomatic momentum:
    • “There are already 147 countries that recognize Palestine... But I think what it's doing is reflecting a certain international consensus about what should happen here...” [68:59]
  • Alison and Noah warn that unilateral recognition could backfire, triggering Israeli calls for annexation and further international isolation.

• Fundamental Dilemmas:

  • All agree on the tragic absence of Israeli diplomatic strategy post-October 7.
    • Alison: “It’s terrible that we're not in any kind of cooperative relationship with [international partners] regarding a diplomatic solution. It’s just a sign of how badly—what a complete abject failure and absence of strategy that we have in this entire situation.” [71:22-72:35]
    • Noah: “Netanyahu's analysis is that the world divides up into Trump and everyone else... and he is talking just to Donald Trump, who is frankly not saying much back and is not a man of vision about the Middle East in any case.” [72:59]

Notable Quotes and Moments

• On the Unreliability of All Narratives:

  • “Mati Friedman... wrote that it is close to impossible to know today what is really happening in Gaza and why... The international press isn’t the answer. But neither can we Israelis trust our own government.” – Alison [38:10]

• On Gaza Aid Distribution:

  • “The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is a complete and total failure and disaster... You set up three locations far away from where the actual hungry women and children are... and you throw boxes of food at them. That's a great success?” – Alison [49:45]

• On Fatalism and Humor in Israeli Life:

  • “There's an affable fatalism to it all and an appreciation for the slapstick of it... I guess that is what 50 generations of pogroms and such will do to you. The fatalism, it gets into the DNA, but there's this affability to it... I love about these people in this place.” – Noah (on in-flight mishaps) [81:38-86:50]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:32] Opening: Lifeguard history and Tamar Milisov’s story
• [12:20] Tisha B’Av reflection: Lamentation vs. nation-building
• [30:43] Topic 1: Gaza humanitarian crisis and responsibility
• [34:51] Deep Dive: Gaza aid, Israeli and Hamas roles, journalistic limits
• [54:03] Linda’s personal Gaza connection
• [60:27] Topic 2: Macron, Palestine, and the two-state solution
• [64:52] Discussion on international recognition, possible backlash
• [75:12] “What a Country” personal reflections and book recommendation

“What a Country” – Personal Reflections

[75:12-86:50]

• Linda: Recommends Perfect Enemy by Alex Sinclair, a Tel Aviv thriller exploring themes of revenge, terrorism, and Israeli-Arab relations—a page-turner that is “fun… and also has a lot to say about Israeli society.”
• Alison: Reflects on the normalization of danger in Israeli life (Houthis missile warnings at a shiva), the overlooked suffering of hostages’ families, and marks the passing of actor Alon Aboutboul—her “first Israeli celebrity crush.”
• Noah: Shares a comical airline mishap as a metaphor for Israeli resilience and acceptance, recalling a similarly surreal gym conversation—illustrating the cultural blend of fatalism, humor, and community.

Conclusion: The Ongoing Dilemma

The episode circles back to Tisha B’Av’s central question: how to mourn devastation while grasping at hope. The panel’s honest, sometimes raw debate leaves no doubt that Israel’s challenges—whether in war, peace, or the simple act of living—offer few simple answers, but plenty of contradiction, history, and, occasionally, a little laughter.

Endnote:
Throughout, the hosts remind listeners that Israeli life is defined by these paradoxes—by the joys of lifeguard milestones, the agony of conflict, muddled reporting, and the ever-present hope that a better way forward might, one day, be found.

For further listening:

• [34:51] Gaza aid debate and personal testimony
• [60:27] Macron's Palestine push and global response
• [75:12] “What a Country” segment: stories of resilience and memory