The Promised Podcast – "Pardon Me?" Edition

Date: December 4, 2025
Host: TLV1 Studios
Main Panelists: Noah Efron, Miriam Herschlag
Theme: An inside look at how Israel can warm your heart and make your blood boil, with passionate takes on politics, culture, and Israeli society.

Episode Overview

This week's Promised Podcast opens with nods to both the resilience and contradictions of Israeli society, then immerses in two main topics:

1. The unprecedented petition for a presidential pardon for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who has not yet been convicted or admitted guilt, provoking intense debate about law, politics, and national unity.
2. "The Sea," an Israeli-Palestinian film that has sparked both official ire and international boycott threats, and serves as a launchpad for a deeper look at empathy, representation, and complexity in art about the occupation.

The episode also features an in memoriam for Elie Zaira, the controversial IDF intelligence chief before the Yom Kippur War, whose legacy invites reflection on Israeli memory, accountability, and generational divides.

Key Topics & Insights

1. Celebrating and Lamenting Tel Aviv’s Spirit

[00:40]

• The episode opens with an exuberant rundown of Tel Aviv’s oddball Guinness World Records, capturing the city’s relentless energy and humor:
  • First 3D printed heart, largest collection of owl items, biggest steel spoon, largest drag performer, Lego brick menorah, and more.
• Quote – Noah Efron:

  "Arguably nothing captures the spirit of this ever so spirited city and the indomitability of this indomitable city that we love so well. Tel Aviv, a city always striving to distant horizons... The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. The human drama of competition." [03:32, 03:41]

[06:40]

• The largest Shabbat dinner record now belongs to New York, dethroning Tel Aviv, but the panel embraces Tel Aviv’s cheeky legacy.
• The requirements for the record (every participant must get fish in five minutes) amuse the hosts.
  • Miriam Herschlag:

    "It didn’t matter if people were vegan… they had to get this fish." [07:15]

• Even loss, in this context, is celebrated with loving humor.

2. In Memoriam: Elie Zaira – Generational Memory, Arrogance, and Accountability

[11:04 – 45:10]

• A detailed, moving biography of Elie Zaira, former IDF Intelligence head (Aman), centers on his tragic role in the Yom Kippur War:
  • Family story spanning migration from Eastern Europe, the painful memory of lost relatives, and the evolution from idealistic Palmachnik to scapegoated general.
  • Zaira’s rise through the military, then catastrophic misreading of prewar signs due to the infamously rigid "conceptzia"—the belief that Egypt and Syria wouldn't dare attack.
• The Agranat Commission report singles out Zaira for dismissal, holding him uniquely responsible for Israel being caught unprepared, and assessment errors costing 2,691 lives.
• The aftermath: social ostracism, accusations, and a lifetime battling the myth that he alone was responsible.
• Zaira’s stubbornness, pride, and refusal to apologize become a generational touchstone.
  • Notable quote (from a late interview, on apology culture):

    "You are simply a society of spoiled people who make laughable demands of me... Our commanders made 10 times as many mistakes. But we knew that our commanders did their best... We never asked for an apology." [36:50]

• The panel reflects on how Israeli society evolved from the prideful, self-assured Sabra archetype, lauding humility, contrition, and nuanced responsibility today.
  • Noah:

    "Though our capacity for arrogance remains great, we did leave Elie Zaira behind, just as he thought we did ... we are a better place for having left him behind." [45:03]

3. First Big Topic: Netanyahu’s Unprecedented Pardon Request

[50:46 – 71:14]

• Background: Netanyahu's lawyers submit a 111-page request to President Herzog for a preemptive pardon, citing "national unity" and "public interest," and including references to a supportive Trump letter.
• Miriam summarizes and reads highlights, with deadpan flourish:
  • Miriam:

    "We turn to His Honor… to pardon the Prime Minister and declare the end of the criminal process underway in his matter."

• The five-point legal argument sums: Netanyahu is vital to the country's survival, undermined by the ongoing trial; prosecution unlikely to succeed; president can and should pardon even pre-conviction; the PM’s unblemished service; and pardon serves the greater good.
• The panel critiques the reasoning:
  • Noah:

    "This letter is not the path to go forward toward a pardon. I don't see how the President could possibly respond to this letter in particular with a pardon."

    "It seems… intended somehow just to make the situation more acute and more difficult and more problematic than it was before…with this letter, were the president to produce a pardon, it would make the tension in the country so much worse." [56:23]

• Implicit threats are noted: Netanyahu hints at becoming involved in controversial judicial reforms if not pardoned, veering near "mafioso" logic.
  • Noah:

    "There's this concept… of something being lahakis, like you do something with the intention of making someone mad. And it seems to me that this letter is Lahakis." [56:23]

• Miriam and Noah reject the legitimacy of such a pardon without admission of guilt or resignation from politics.
  • Miriam:

    "It's like the pyromaniac asking to lower the flames. What are these flames…? He's a wedge, strategically a wedge politician. He works very much on actually a message of division, sometimes cloaked in messages of unity. But that's how he's worked. And I think it's also built into the structure of Israeli politics. But he's refined it into an art." [61:02]

• They fear the normalization of private, "undemocratic" negotiations between President and PM to decide national outcomes, calling it a "historic mistake." [68:46]
• The consensus: The letter is both a political maneuver for the next election and a cynical, non-starter—yet the beginning of a protracted, fraught public debate.

4. Second Big Topic: "The Sea" – Film, Empathy & Controversy

[73:03 – 92:09]

• Plot recap: Palestinian boy Khalid, barred from a school trip to the sea, sneaks into Israel in a low-key odyssey, meeting a variety of Israelis and Palestinians along the way.
• The movie, directed by Chai Karmeli Pollack and produced by Bacher Akbaria, wins major Israeli film awards, triggering a backlash from Minister of Culture Mickey Zohar for its supposed anti-Israeli perspective, and calls for international boycott from pro-BDS film groups—despite its immersive humanity, multilingualism, and critical stance on the occupation.
• Miriam admires the film's rich, granular detail, subverting every cardboard stereotype:

  • "Almost everybody in the film is more than a cartoon, more than a cardboard character… He gets different responses (from) a parade of different characters that (the filmmakers) want you to see, they want you to relate to. And so I think…it's quite subversive, obviously. Subversive from both angles." [78:30]

• Noah notes the film’s sadness and underlying hope, the palpable humanity of all characters and the real-world fear/complexity of Palestinian existence under occupation:

  • "For me, I was so identified through the whole movie with Ribhi, with the father… you feel the concern, (the) crushing weight of the occupation, but you also feel like…there's so much humanity everywhere you look. It was depressing but uplifting at the same time." [83:08]

• On the soldiers’ portrayal: Rather than vilification, they are painted as blandly bureaucratic, embodying the "banality of evil," which provoked controversy from both the Israeli right and BDS circles.
• Miriam highlights the film’s refusal to condemn a side, and instead its drive to nuance: "You get real, full, rich, human texture… The built environment is quite wonderful in this movie as well." [82:10]
• Miriam quotes Palestinian-American writer Mo Husseini:

  "The problem with that story is that it's a lie. It deletes the nuance… It demands that I, as a Palestinian, look at Israeli and see only an occupier… It was as if he had either watched or almost written that movie, because that's exactly what the movie does. It humanizes everybody." [91:09]

• Both hosts urge listeners to see it if possible.

5. Vada Country: Israel's Small Joys

[94:32 – 103:58]

Miriam’s Vada Country

• Riding the light rail Red Line from Yehudit to Bat Yam, she revels in the urban layers of Jaffa, the Ottoman and public-housing architecture, and the evolving social makeup of Bat Yam:

  • "Along the railing...each stool in the row was occupied by a woman with a head covering sitting and reciting what looked like Tehillim, you know, psalms. I imagined it as a kind of open air synagogue for women who are giving themselves a moment after they have pretty much finished the Shabbat cooking and cleaning." [97:06]

Noah’s Vada Country

• Describes his sprawling Thanksgiving table, brimming with grown children, laughter, and impromptu song:

  • "There's something about seeing them with the people that they’ve picked… There's something about seeing everyone, and maybe especially those kids who are not really kids..." [98:16]

• The Thanksgiving theme is ‘New York’—stories, food, songs, laughter—all evidence of the enduring connections and blessings of life in Israel.
• A moment of collective singing of Woody Guthrie (“This Land Is Your Land”) poignantly embodies the hope, community, and history that define their lives.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Tel Aviv's Guinness records:

  "Always striving to distant horizons, always casting out bridges to unknown shores... The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat." – Noah (03:32)

• On the myth of Sabra arrogance:

  "This pridefulness, this arrogance... It was part of what made up that great mythological thing, the Tzabar, in those days. And it is not that it is not still part of how we are." – Noah (41:44)

• Elie Zaira vs. apology culture:

  "You are simply a society of spoiled people who make laughable demands of me... Our war was much bigger. Our sacrifices were much bigger. Our commanders made 10 times as many mistakes. But we knew that our commanders did their best." – Elie Zaira, via Aviram Barkai (36:50)

• On Netanyahu’s pardon request:

  "It seems to me that this letter is Lahakis… intended to make the situation more acute... If the president were to produce a pardon, it would make the tension in the country so much worse." – Noah (56:23)

• On "The Sea":

  "Almost everybody in the film is more than a cartoon, more than a cardboard character... so I think in that sense it's quite subversive, obviously. Subversive from both angles." – Miriam (78:30) "It was depressing but uplifting at the same time..." – Noah (83:08)

• On collective song and shared roots:

  "These young people leaving aside their jobs or school or whatever they had going that night to come celebrate a holiday that isn’t really a holiday for them with their parents and their parents friends who are also really their friends, that is about here..." – Noah (101:31)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:40 – Tel Aviv's world records and city spirit
• 06:40 – Shabbat dinner Guinness record, cultural riff
• 11:04 – 45:10 – In memoriam: Elie Zaira, deep-dive on the Yom Kippur War and Israeli generational change
• 50:46 – 71:14 – Netanyahu pardon debate: Legal, ethical, and political implications
• 73:03 – 92:09 – "The Sea" film discussion: Art, occupation, empathy, and controversy
• 94:32 – 103:58 – Vada country: Urban joys, Thanksgiving gathering, song, and connection

Tone & Style

The conversation is sharp, self-deprecating, affectionate, and occasionally barbed. The hosts alternate between sardonic wit, erudite historical reflection, and moments of genuine warmth and vulnerability. They invite listeners to appreciate contradiction, ambivalence, and the messy work of being both self-critical and patriotic.

For Listeners

• If you want a deeper sense of how events in Israel play out, both in the headlines and on the sidewalk, how history shapes every controversy, and how small joys persist, this episode is a rich entrée.
• The in-depth eulogy for Elie Zaira is a masterclass in public reckoning; the debate on Netanyahu’s pardon request is an anatomy of a legal and political crisis; the review of "The Sea" is both a film club and a meditation on coexistence.
• Plus: a reminder to hold on to the small acts of joy—whether via rail, film, or carving the turkey with friends and family.

End of Summary.