The Promised Podcast – “Stability?” Edition

Date: June 12, 2025
Podcast: The Promised Podcast (TLV1 Studios)
Host: Noah Efron, with guests Eileen Prusher and Sarah Hirshhorn

Episode Overview

This episode is titled the “Stability?” Edition, and dives deeply into the latest political, societal, and cultural goings-on in Israel. The hosts explore the high drama surrounding the recent failed effort to topple the Israeli government, the perennial issue of ultra-Orthodox military conscription, and the controversial Israeli decision to arm a Gaza militia as a counter to Hamas. The conversation is rich with historical references, journalistic insight, pointed humor, and personal anecdotes, offering listeners an inside take on the passions and paradoxes that define Israeli life and politics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening: Pride Month, Emojis, and Celebrity Cameos (00:37–07:36)

• The setting: The host opens in Tel Aviv as Caitlyn Jenner arrives as Grand Marshal for the city’s Pride Parade.
• Social Media & National Spirit: Jenner’s Instagram posts receive thousands of likes and a close reading of heart emojis (statistical analysis included!), balancing “pinkwashing” criticisms with broad public warmth.

  “I determined that there were 65 heart emojis in just the first 20 comments... 46.15% red, 18.46% white, 24.62% blue, and 10.77% pink.” — Noah, (04:23)

• Reflection on Israeli appreciation for visitors, particularly in challenging times.

2. Introducing the Cast with Emoji-Filled Bios (07:37–09:59)

• Guest bios written as laundry lists of emojis, used to humorously encapsulate personalities and careers (e.g., “brain emoji, pen emoji, microphone emoji” for Eileen Prusher).
• Light-hearted back-and-forth about personas and professional identities.

3. AI and Shallow Self-Knowledge (09:59–12:39)

• Noah recounts ChatGPT’s complimentary but superficial summary of his online persona, provoking existential reflection.

  “You’re a civic minded, sharp witted scholar activist... you make ideas grow.” — ChatGPT, read by Noah (10:37)

• Lively conversation about personal integrity versus digital self-portrayal.

4. Knesset Committee Drama: Tefillin, Respect, and Religious Pluralism (13:51–33:16)

a. The Incident:

• In the Knesset Subcommittee on Jewish Thought, a heated exchange between Reform Rabbi MK Gilad Kariv and committee chair Galit Distel Atbaryan erupts.
• Kariv presses for egalitarian inclusion in the new Jewish culture educational framework, specifically the right for girls to don tefillin, provoking outrage and ultimately his ejection from the meeting.

b. Details and Fallout:

• Distel Atbaryan’s sarcastic remark, “If you make a bar mitzvah for your dog, I will come,” is met with laughter and derision.
• Kariv accuses her of ignorance and incivility; Distel Atbaryan expels him while making a derogatory remark about Reform Jews.

  “Please take out the enlightened reforming the Jews here want to go on...” — Distel Atbaryan (24:49)

c. Broader Reactions:

• Reform and Conservative movements protest; Kariv’s op-ed links religious intolerance to broader democratic erosion.

• Aryeh Golan, iconic Israeli radio host, delivers an erudite on-air refutation—citing rabbinic sources in support of women wearing tefillin:

  “...It seems that even in the dark Middle Ages, there were no Jews who would have thrown Rav Kariv out of any room or committee because his daughter [put on tefillin].” — Aryeh Golan (28:17)

• Noah notes that, despite ongoing struggles, Israel is more open to diverse Jewish practice than ever before.

  “...Israel is now undeniably more open, not less, to more sorts of Judaism... than ever before in the 150 years of Zionism.” — Noah (29:23)

5. Topic 1: The Will-It-Or-Won’t-It Fall of the Government? (34:42–56:14)

a. Background: Knesset’s Wobbly Stability

• Eileen lays out the three mechanisms to topple an Israeli government: budget failure, vote of no confidence, or passing a bill to dissolve the Knesset.
• This week's failed dissolution attempt was rooted in disputes over the ultra-Orthodox draft to the IDF.
• The government survived the preliminary vote 61–53. Last-minute coalition deals reportedly included induction quotas (10,000 Haredim drafted over 2 years), with new sanctions for draft evaders (loss of subsidies, passports, licenses).

b. Debate: Is This Progress or More of the Same?

• Sarah Hirshhorn: “This was just another classic case of Israeli extortion... We don’t even know the details... to keep this coalition together.” (44:24)
  • Warns of lack of transparency; describes perpetual bargaining as embarrassing and geopolitically damaging.
• Noah Efron: Disagrees, sees this as a real step toward resolving the draft dilemma. Points out the leadership’s willingness to move (albeit incrementally) after October 7.

  “This deal reportedly includes seeing 10,000...be drafted... ultra orthodox leadership basically agreed there would be very significant sanctions...” (48:07)

• Eileen Prusher: Recovering the same arguments after decades frustrates her, but appreciates Noah’s optimism. Contextualizes human costs—noting lives disrupted by ongoing war and unresolved political questions.

  “Isn’t there enough of a groundswell right now to say: where is the end in sight of this war?” — Eileen (52:26)

• Consensus/Disagreement: All share skepticism about implementation and whether the Haredi draft solution will stick.

6. Topic 2: Arming Militias Against Hamas—Cynicism or Strategy? (58:16–70:58)

a. The Revelation:

• Avigdor Lieberman reveals (and Netanyahu confirms) that Israel has supplied weapons to Yasser Abu Shabab, a Rafah-based Bedouin militia leader and former drug smuggler, as a tactic to weaken Hamas.

b. Analysis:

• Eileen Prusher: Skeptical about efficacy—historical analogies abound (“U.S. Mujahideen became Al Qaeda”). Wonders if arming small factions can realistically defeat Hamas or is simply an act of desperation.

  “Maybe they can make some dents in Hamas, but I'm a little skeptical... are you just giving arms that... they’ll eventually turn on Israeli soldiers?” — Eileen (63:10)

• Noah Efron: Calls Netanyahu’s strategy “advanced cynicism,” reflecting a belief that there is no realistic path to a “decent” Palestinian government in Gaza.

  “...It reflects the fact that the people in our leadership do not at all believe that there's any way to create a future in Gaza that is peaceful…” — Noah (65:32)

• Sarah Hirshhorn: Connects to earlier regional history (Israel’s support for Hamas against the PLO, similar interventions in Lebanon), highlighting repeated strategic miscalculations.

  “...We've seen this movie before... This is generally a kind of failed strategy.” — Sarah (66:17)

• All agree the tactic is fraught, likely a sign of strategic exhaustion rather than a sustainable solution.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Emoji Analysis of Caitlyn Jenner's Pride Postings: “Presumably, the relatively high percentage of blue and white heart emojis owed to the commentator's wish to convey the blue and white of the Israeli flag through heart emojis, but at this point that is just a conjecture and obviously further research is needed.” — Noah (03:50)

• On Religious Pluralism and Civility in the Knesset:

  “Apparently you don't know a thing about halacha, about Jewish law, about tradition... This is the face of Jewish tradition according to Galit Distel.” — Rav Gilad Kariv (24:20) “A talented writer could write a good book about these progressive women who put on tefillin... She might even win the Sapir Prize for her efforts.” — Aryeh Golan (28:30)

• On Government Instability:

  “If you thought this was an educational civics lesson... then you've been hoodwinked, my friends... another classic case of Israeli extortion...” — Sarah (44:24) “Almost inexplicably this government is really quite stable... in the interest of both sides in a dramatic way.” — Noah (47:39)

• On The Haredi Draft:

  “For the first time, ultra orthodox leadership basically agreed there would be very significant sanctions for people who don't agree to go to the army...” — Noah (48:07) “Two weeks from now, the Haredim are not going to say: well, that was just talking points... all bets are off now...” — Sarah (55:17)

• On Arming Militias:

  “I think the American example... ended up with the Mujahideen... sprung into Al Qaeda, right, with help from Bin Laden...” — Eileen (61:36) “Is all this a good idea or just sad? It’s depressing that this seems to be the right, best thing we can be doing at this moment...” — Noah (65:32)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:37] – Caitlyn Jenner, Pride events, Tel Aviv spirit
• [07:37] – Introducing Eileen Prusher and Sara Hirshhorn in emoji bios
• [09:59] – Noah reads ChatGPT's summary of himself, sparking self-reflection
• [13:51] – Knesset blowup: MK Kariv v. Distel Atbarian, tefillin, religious pluralism
• [28:30] – Aryeh Golan’s rabbinic counter-blast to religious exclusion
• [34:42] – Discussion of government’s failed dissolution, mechanics of falling Israeli governments
• [44:24] – Sarah: “Classic case of Israeli extortion;” debate over government stability and reforms
• [51:41] – Eileen: Human costs of ongoing war, uncertainty about political direction
• [58:16] – Israel arms Gaza clan against Hamas, panel weighs strategic wisdom/risk
• [70:30] – Realpolitik, factional violence, can Gaza be governed at all?
• [73:09] – "What a Country" segment: stories of Israeli goodness, everyday life

“What a Country” Segment (Voda Country)

• Eileen's Story (73:09): Her husband’s lost bag is returned—every shekel intact—thanks to a Haredi-run lost & found “gamach” organization in Jerusalem. Faith in Israeli kindness restored.

  “We were blown away and warmed our hearts and we got our lost items back... there are good people out there...” — Eileen (75:46)

• Sarah's Story (76:53): Her fascination with Jerusalem’s religious diversity, observing moments of everyday transcendence—nun in full habit, hidden convents, intersections of sacred and mundane.

  “I love walking around and seeing... juxtapositions... the Jesuit priest taking his cellphone out of some hidden pocket...” — Sarah (76:54)

• Noah's Story (79:04): The powerful ties of community as his daughter returns from the U.S. for a childhood friend’s wedding—expressing the enduring fabric of Israeli and Jewish belonging.

Tone & Style

• Conversational, irreverent, but deeply informed and emotionally resonant.
• Frequent literary and film allusions (including Woody Allen, Ruth and Naomi, and more).
• Willingness to disagree openly and thoughtfully—disagreement between Sarah and Noah repeatedly foregrounds the show’s commitment to pluralism and debate.

Summary for New Listeners

Even if you’ve missed the episode, this installment offers a vivid cross-section of contemporary Israeli life: the struggle to define and maintain government stability under perpetual political brinkmanship, the entangled questions of religion, inclusion, and pluralism, and the country’s constant dance between cynicism and hope. The panel’s discussions—rich in personal anecdote, rigorous analysis, and the trademark Promised Podcast blend of humor and heartbreak—show a society that is passionate, fractious, and always in motion, wrestling with both its oldest dilemmas and its present crises.

Above all, it’s a show about loving a country that drives you crazy—and about keeping faith (and a sense of humor) even when the headlines feel heavy.

Listen for:

• Insight into how Israeli democracy and coalition politics really work
• Jewish religious pluralism and its political implications
• Skepticism (sometimes downright despair) about grand policy “solutions”—tempered by small, very real stories of hope and menschlichkeit

Memorable sign-off:

“Sometimes it takes an ugly fight… to remind you that this is what it is like to live in a Jewish state, and to remind us all how lucky we are that these are the fights that we have today.” — Noah (32:54)

For more, see:

• [00:37] Caitlyn Jenner, Pride in Tel Aviv
• [13:51] Knesset Pluralism Clash
• [34:42] Anatomy of a coalition crisis
• [58:16] Arming the “enemy of my enemy”
• [73:09] Uplifting stories of Israeli good deeds