The Promote Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode: Sonder's Mercy Killing and the Mooch's OZ Misadventure

Date: November 19, 2025
Hosts: Hiten Samtani (A), Will Krasne (B)

Overview

This episode of The Promote Podcast dives deep into three consequential commercial real estate (CRE) stories: the ongoing struggles and liquidations in the multifamily REIT sector; the abrupt demise of PropTech darling Sonder after its short-lived partnership with Marriott; and the spectacular misadventures of Anthony "The Mooch" Scaramucci’s Opportunity Zone fund, culminating in a cautionary tale of poor due diligence, celebrity fundraising, and spectacular losses. Throughout, hosts Hiten and Will deliver unfiltered, insider analysis, peppered with sharp humor, industry war stories, and memorable one-liners.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Breaking News & Quick Hits (Blackstone, Worldwide Plaza)

• Kathleen McCarthy Exits Blackstone (02:11–03:58)

  • Discussion of co-CEO dynamics at Blackstone and how "there can be only one" at the top.
  • Reference to historic similar reshufflings (e.g., John Gray vs. Chad Pike).
  • “Does having two bosses ever work in the long run?” — Hiten (04:01)
  • Blackstone “cub” Kathleen McCarthy departs, mirroring past power struggles.

• Worldwide Plaza Foreclosure (04:06–05:11)

  • Overview of the ongoing drama at Worldwide Plaza; heading to a UCC foreclosure after failed attempts to fill major lease voids.
  • “This is the ugly ass building. That’s like too far west to be good, but not far west enough to be good.” — Will (04:14)
  • Brief explainer of UCC foreclosure as a swift, non-judicial process.

2. Main Segment 1: The Great Multifamily REIT Contraction (05:12–11:54)

• List of Multifamily REITs Going Private or Liquidating

  • “Since 2020… billions and billions of dollars of enterprise value either gobbled up by a big private thing or just fade away into the night.” — Hiten (06:04)
  • Notable deals: Cortland and ELM’s $1.6B portfolio sale (06:31)
  • Cap rates, pricing details, strategic differences between big and midsize players.
  • The shift: “The ones that are big are looking to get bigger. Cortland’s kind of hunting for a bigger war chest…” — Hiten (07:01)
  • “It’s just a tough market for multifamily REITs. … What’s the value of being in the public markets right now?” — Will (07:39)

• Public vs. Private Advantage

  • Disadvantages of REITs: lower leverage, high corporate G&A overhead, stock performance detached from property market health.
  • Tax structure of REITs no longer a clear advantage given changes in how private equity treats depreciation.
  • “If your stock gets pummeled, you’re just every day, like, bleeding out.” — Will (08:17)

• Future Trajectory

  • Anticipating more exits or take-private scenarios, as “people too are just sort of throwing in the towel on waiting for, you know, survive till 25. We’re going to get hitched in 26.” — Will (09:07)
  • Executives’ pay highlighted: “REIT executives are paid very well, perhaps too well.” — Hiten (09:59)
  • “You’re basically buying these things wholesale and then you can spin off retail.” — Will on the value proposition for buyers (10:35)

• Office REITs & Management Narrative

  • Despite blockbuster years for NYC office, public REIT share prices have not rebounded.
  • “Your job as a CEO of a public company is to make the stock price go up. It’s not to like lease space, especially in today’s market.” — Will (10:54)
  • Private players have greater storytelling flexibility and can act more nimbly.

• REIT Market Cycles

  • “These are all epochs… things will turn and eventually that will come back to this. For now, don’t be public.” — Will (11:47)

3. Main Segment 2: Sonder’s Abrupt Liquidation & What it Means for PropTech (12:05–22:13)

• Sonder’s Partnership With Marriott & Fast Demise

  • “Sunday Marriott comes out… ‘the license agreement we had, that’s over.’” — Hiten (12:24)
  • Sonder attempted to get support as it headed for Chapter 7; Marriott instantly cut ties.
  • “You can read the articles on Bloomberg and people are in the lobby of these Sonders being like, hey, like what’s going on? And the employees are sitting there being like, we don’t know. I don’t work for Sonder anymore. It just got laid off.” — Will (12:55)
  • Critique of Marriott’s customer response: “They could have done better… should have been a little more graceful.” — Hiten (14:07)

• The Sonder Business Model Post-Mortem

  • Raised over $600M in venture capital, went public via SPAC in 2022 at $1.9B valuation.
  • By 2024, market cap fell to $41M.
  • Will skewers asset-light “WeWork for apartments” model: “Operating the things really hard. We're gonna operate it but not own it… so we get the worst of every world.” (17:17)
  • “We think we’re going to be able to be at roughly 30%... property level profit margins, but without owning the underlying real estate. This is absolute fucking nonsense.” — Will, quoting founder Francis Davidson (17:06)

• Tech Narratives vs. CRE Reality

  • “The problem is the narrative that you need to tell the tech people is very different from the narrative you need to tell the real estate people. But the narrative that needs to be true is the real estate narrative…” — Hiten (19:52)
  • Similar proptech cautionary tales cited: Common, Latch.
  • Venture capital subsidizing the customer experience, but not solving profit fundamentals.
  • “What’s technology about? Basically, like borrowing long and lending short. … That's not technology.” — Will (18:42)

• Sonder’s Troubled Dealings at 20 Broad & Broader Proptech Woes

  • Tales of legal fights over leases, bankruptcy, failed partnerships (20:11–21:11).
  • Big lesson: For PropTech to succeed, it must deliver NOI improvement for property owners—not just delight consumers.

4. Main Segment 3: The Mooch’s OZ Fund Fiasco (24:08–28:55)

• Anthony Scaramucci’s (“The Mooch’s”) CRE Adventure

  • “What is a high-profile guy with a massive presence do? … Raise an OZ fund.” — Hiten (24:52)
  • Mooch attempted to raise $3B for his Opportunity Zone fund; ended up with just $50M.
  • “Have you invested in real estate before? Nope. Do you have real estate experience? Nope.” — Hiten (24:56)
  • Proceeded to acquire the Virgin Hotel in New Orleans—an off-brand, operationally complex asset in a difficult market.

• Catastrophic Results

  • “Since this property was purchased, how much in distributions have the investors gotten?” — Will
    “0.” — Hiten (26:35)
  • Investors are wiped out, but Skybridge (the manager) collected 1.75% of NAV annually regardless.

• Incredible Customer Service

  • Dramatic reading of a withering investor relations reply:
    “Given your intemperate and unprofessional communications and false and offensive accusations, we will not be responding to your inquiries...” — SkyBridge President Brett Messink, as read by Hiten (27:26)
  • Skybridge neglected to report ~$1M of property taxes/insurance in their financials.

• Case Study in Appraisal Failures

  • Hotel appraised at $95M is now being brought to market at $45M.
  • Mooch calls outcome “surprising and disappointing,” but Will says: “If you’re going to invest in an OZ, maybe don’t do it in an off-brand hotel in New Orleans.” (28:17)

• Meta-Lesson

  • “Difference between fundraising and operating. A silver-tongued salesman like the Mooch with a huge profile can raise a couple bucks for anything, but what happens next is anyone’s guess.” — Hiten (29:46)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s like Goodfellas Copacabana, but kosher.” — Hiten, on networking in CRE (00:03)
• “There can be only one.” — Will, joking about Blackstone co-CEO exits (03:00)
• “This is the ugly ass building... too far west to be good, but not far west enough to be good.” — Will, on Worldwide Plaza (04:14)
• “REIT executives are paid very well, perhaps too well.” — Hiten (09:59)
• “Does having two bosses ever work in the long run?” — Hiten (04:01)
• “We think we’re going to be able to be at roughly 30%... property level profit margins, but without owning the underlying real estate. This is absolute fucking nonsense.” — Will, quoting Sonder’s founder (17:06)
• “Operating the things really hard. We're gonna operate it but not own it.” — Will (17:42)
• “What’s technology about? Basically, like borrowing long and lending short... That's not technology.” — Will (18:42)
• “If you can't improve NOI, why am I paying $10 a month per door for these fucking locks?” — Will, on PropTech pitfalls (22:13)
• “Have you invested in real estate before? Nope. Do you have real estate experience? Nope.” — Hiten, on the Mooch's OZ fund (24:56)
• “Since this property was purchased, how much in distributions have the investors gotten? 0.” — Will & Hiten exchange (26:35)
• “Given your intemperate and unprofessional communications and false and offensive accusations, we will not be responding to your inquiries...” — as read by Hiten (27:26)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:03–04:06 — Intro, Blackstone quick hits, leadership departures
• 04:09–05:11 — Worldwide Plaza foreclosure update
• 05:12–11:54 — Multifamily REIT contraction: causes, deals, future outlook
• 12:05–14:20 — Sonder’s liquidation & Marriott response
• 14:27–21:11 — Sonder post-mortem: funding history, business model, comparison to WeWork, PropTech cautionary tales
• 21:11–22:13 — PropTech and NOI, broader tech-in-RE lessons
• 24:08–28:55 — Anthony Scaramucci’s OZ fund saga: overpromising, operational issues, investor wipeout, appraisal woes

Tone & Speaker Style

The hosts balance well-sourced, unvarnished industry intelligence with dry wit and banter. Hiten often adopts a narrative, big-picture lens, while Will provides technical detail, skepticism, and comedic edge. The podcast maintains insider lingo but explains key industry terms for the informed audience.

Closing Thoughts

This episode captures a moment of reckoning in CRE, where liquidity, leadership, and business models forged in an era of easy money are all under assault. The hosts call for realism: hard-won operational expertise trumps hype; narratives must be anchored in financial fundamentals; and “epic” wins are never as easy as they look from the outside.