298. WM3 - A Little Less Conversation

Summary

Episode Summary: The Prosecutors - Episode 298: WM3 - A Little Less Conversation

Introduction and Technical Hiccups ([01:36] - [03:10]) The episode opens with co-hosts Brett and Alice experiencing some initial technical difficulties as they attempt to sign in and launch the podcast. Their playful exchange highlights their chemistry and sets a relaxed tone for the episode.

• Alice [03:00]: “It's not like we haven't done how many episodes do we have hundreds of times to sign in?”

• Brett [03:05]: “We can't be the way we started. Sorry.”

Banter on Rabbit Trails and Groundhog Day ([03:10] - [10:34]) Brett and Alice delve into a lighthearted discussion about rabbit trails versus rabbit holes, seamlessly transitioning into a conversation about the idiom "Groundhog Day." Their dialogue reflects their ability to engage in casual yet entertaining topics before addressing more serious content.

• Alice [03:27]: “I think we should dive in right away because we're probably going to be doing this case for way too long.”

• Brett [07:25]: “Is that what you mean? All those rumors you're feeding all those rumors?”

Discussion on Turtles and Personal Stories ([10:34] - [16:16]) The hosts share personal anecdotes about their experiences with turtles and other animals, illustrating their diverse interests and building a relatable rapport with the audience. Alice recounts her unfortunate experiences with keeping turtles, while Brett touches on themes of animal behavior and safety.

• Alice [12:05]: “Exactly. But they don't have gills. Right. And they have to have their mouths up there.”

• Brett [15:36]: “I don't even know if I knew that roosters had testicles. I mean, I guess I had to know that. Is that a real thing?”

Transition Through Ads and Promotions ([16:16] - [45:21]) This segment includes brief promotional messages for various products and services, such as Progressive Insurance, BetterHelp, Quince, and Pluto TV. These advertisements are interspersed within the content but are generally skipped in podcast summaries as per the user's instructions.

Emotional Connection Through Bluey and Parenting ([45:21] - [60:23]) Post-advertisements, Brett and Alice shift the conversation to the animated series "Bluey," discussing its emotional impact and drawing parallels to their experiences as parents. Brett shares a heartfelt moment triggered by an episode, leading to a deeper conversation about the innocence of childhood and the challenges of parenting.

• Brett [45:53]: “So Bluey and Bingo and Chili, who's the mom, are going to see her dad now. He's recovering from heartworms.”

• Brett [46:50]: “So Grandpa's not an axe. He's not sitting on the edge. He's sitting on the edge of the piercing. And the kids are swimming, and Chili comes up, and she sits down next to her dad, grandpa. And they're talking... I just burst into tears.”

• Alice [49:12]: “Innocence of childhood. And how, you know, it seems like just yesterday, your kids are in this carefree world.”

Setting the Stage for the Upcoming Case ([60:23] - [64:13]) As the episode concludes, Brett and Alice acknowledge that they have not yet delved into the main case of the episode. They express their excitement and dedication to thoroughly researching and presenting the case over the next series of episodes. The hosts emphasize the significance of the upcoming discussion, promising an in-depth and impactful analysis.

• Alice [58:44]: “I think this is going to be one of the most researched, most intense and most divisive cases we will ever cover.”

• Brett [59:08]: “Better make it a good one. You know, you want to leave a legacy.”

Conclusion and Next Steps ([60:23] - [64:13]) The episode wraps up with Brett and Alice planning to commence the detailed examination of the case in the following episode. They invite listeners to engage with them through emails and social media for further discussion and feedback.

• Brett [61:12]: “Alright, we'll be back tomorrow with the continuation of this case. But until then, I'm Brett.”

• Alice [61:25]: “We are so dedicated. So dedicated.”

Notable Quotes:

• Alice [03:59]: “I think we should dive in right away because we're probably going to be doing this case for way too long.”

• Brett [46:50]: “So Grandpa's not an axe. He's not sitting on the edge. He's sitting on the edge of the piercing. And the kids are swimming... I just burst into tears.”

• Alice [49:12]: “Innocence of childhood. And how, you know, it seems like just yesterday, your kids are in this carefree world.”

Final Thoughts: This episode serves as an introductory prelude to what promises to be a comprehensive exploration of a significant true crime case. By intertwining personal narratives with lighthearted discussions, Brett and Alice establish a strong connection with their audience, setting the foundation for deeper investigative content in subsequent episodes.

Transcript

[Alice]

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[Alice]

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[Brett]

I'm Brett.

[Alice]

And I'm Alice.

[Brett]

And we are the Prosecutor today on the Prosecutors. I hope you're ready. It's what you've asked for more than anything else. Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of the Prosecutors. I'm Brett and I'm joined as. Hey, hey, that's. You're already messing up. You're already messing up. That's. You know, we gotta. I don't know why you did it.

[Alice]

It's not like we haven't done how many episodes do we have hundreds of times to sign in?

[Brett]

So many.

[Alice]

I'm sorry, we gotta. This is not bode well. Did you see how nervous I am? I just. I just. I'm so sorry. Okay, let's start. We can't be the way we started. Sorry.

[Brett]

But just go ahead and leave that in Jason. People enjoy that.

[Alice]

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. But you can laugh about how terrible I am. We'll save you a blooper.

[Brett]

Here we go. Here we go. Okay, sorry.

[Alice]

I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Okay, I'm ready.

[Brett]

Oh, hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Prosecutors. I'm Brett and I'm joined as always by my easily distracted co host, Alice. Hello, Alice.

[Alice]

Hey, Brett. I'm easily distracted. You know what, you know how people are like you do something so many times in your Life, you just. Everything becomes rote and it's just boring. That's not my life because apparently I have the memory of like a bunny rabbit. I don't know how we sign in.

[Brett]

Yeah, I want to sign off half the time, but it's okay. That's why the show, fun, you know? You know, when we do these big cases, everybody's been wanting to hear, I feel like, no, we gotta just get right into it, because I don't, you know, chit chat. You know how people are about chit chat.

[Alice]

Chit chat. The one stars, they. They hate the chitchat. But you know what? I think we should dive in. I think we should dive in right away because we're probably going to be doing this case for way too long.

[Brett]

For a long time.

[Alice]

For like, forever.

[Brett]

Forever.

[Alice]

But the thing is. But the thing is. Can I just say for a second, though, I just. This case has just been like, on my mind, on my heart, in my dreams, literally. I texted you, right? I was like, I just dreamt about this case because we've been researching it so long.

[Brett]

I dream about you too, Alice.

[Alice]

Yes.

[Brett]

Is that what you mean?

[Alice]

All those rumors you're feeding all those rumors? No, that's not what I meant whatsoever. But because I want to get to the case, we have to do justice to this case. We can't go too fast, but at the same time, we kind of have to be fast because we don't have forever to do this case.

[Brett]

Yeah, we got all these. Yeah, that's true. We don't have forever. You know, if you're just joining us for this case, then I mean, kind of late to the game. I mean, I'm. I'm just saying we have a great back catalog, though. We do so many good episodes. I want to. Before we get started. Here's the thing. If you're. If you're just joining us, I mean, one of the things that sort of defines Alice and, And I and how we do these cases, we tend to maybe occasionally sometimes go down. I don't know. What would you call it?

[Alice]

I would call it rabbit trails. Rabbit trails.

[Brett]

I would call it rabbit trails as well. Who calls it rabbit holes? I don't know. Do rabbits even live in holes?

[Alice]

I don't know if they live in holes because. So you guys definitely make trails. I used to live in Georgia, and when I grew up, I lived in Georgia. This actually goes very well into this case. And played outside all the time. And there were rabbits and bunnies that lived in my backyard, like plentiful. Because if you know about the bunnies, they really know how to procreate.

[Brett]

If you don't start out with a lot of bunnies, you end up with a lot of bunnies.

[Alice]

You end up with a lot of bunnies, and you knew you had bunnies.

[Brett]

You ever plant mint? It just takes over the whole yard.

[Alice]

Takes over the whole yard. Bunnies take over the whole yard. But you look out back in my backyard, and it was like this flat, you know, greenery. But there were rabbit trails going every which way because rabbits make trails because they are creatures of habit. That's how they stay safe. Because have you ever seen a rabbit? They got no defense mechanism. Right. They can't play de. They don't have, like, you know, venom like a snake. They're pretty awesome. So. So they make rabbit trails. So I've seen rabbit trails. Never seen a rabbit hole.

[Brett]

Never seen a rabbit hole. I mean, gophers live in holes, you know?

[Alice]

What's the difference between a gopher and a groundhog?

[Brett]

Groundhog. I was just about to talk about the groundhog. We are so. We are so on the same page because. So every year I watch Groundhog Day. It's like a thing I do every February 2nd. Great movie. You haven't seen. Have you seen it with Bill Murray?

[Alice]

Oh, absolutely. I've watched it many times. Have you? I feel like we've had this conversation before.

[Brett]

Have we? It's a great movie. You know, the same thing happens every over and over and over.

[Alice]

That was a joke.

[Brett]

That was the joke. I always wondered, and I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this. Maybe we discuss this. I don't know. It's like. It's like Groundhog Day. So Groundhog Day. Now, if you say it's like Groundhog Day, people know that that means it's like the same day is happening over again. I assume that comes from the movie, right?

[Alice]

I assume so, because I'm pretty sure it didn't all of a sudden change sometime in, like, the 80s or 90s where before where we said, oh, it's like Groundhog Day. We're like, yeah. You know when the gopher comes out and it's almost spring.

[Brett]

Yeah. But I just want to make sure, because it's possible, that people always use that idiom, it's like Groundhog Day to mean a day that happens every year. Right. And that the movie maker was like, what if it really was like Groundhog Day, and every day was the same day? And I just don't know if it started that way with the idiom. Or if the idiom comes from the movie.

[Alice]

Now you're blowing my mind. But what about. Why would that be an idiom in and of itself? I don't know.

[Brett]

But idioms are weird, right? Idioms are weird in Alabama. I don't know what it's like where you guys are from, and I'm sorry if this offends some of you, but I'll ask Alice. Alice, when the sun is shining and it's raining, what do you say? Do you have a phrase for that in your. In your culture?

[Alice]

I don't think so.

[Brett]

When the sun is out. Okay, so it's not totally cloudy.

[Alice]

I. I understand the situation, and it's. Right, Let me think.

[Brett]

Like, in some places, they call that sun showers or something like that. In the south, we say the devil is beating his wife.

[Alice]

I do know this only because I now live in the South.

[Brett]

Yeah. So the devil is beating his wife, which I said, don't be offended. That's just what people say. Right. So where did that come from? I have no idea. I don't know who came up with that the first time. Right. But that's what people say. And so maybe Groundhog Day was the same way. People just said, man, you know, it's. Today was just like yesterday. It's like Groundhog Day. And people like, yeah, I know what you mean.

[Alice]

You know, I think you're giving someone a movie idea right now. Someone should make a movie called the Devil Beating His Wife.

[Brett]

There you go. It probably would not be as fun as Groundhog Day. How did I get started on Groundhog Day?

[Alice]

Rabbit trails. Rabbit trails.

[Brett]

Rabbit trails and holes. Yeah. So was that a rabbit hole?

[Alice]

We just went down.

[Brett]

So it was.

[Alice]

I actually think I understand that people say rabbit holes, but, like, I literally remember seeing these indentations into the. Could look out the backyard. Because when it came springtime, new rabbit trails would be formed because they went away and hibernated or whatever during the winter and the grass dies away. So the rabbit trails.

[Brett]

We're going to talk about trails through the forest in this case.

[Alice]

That's right. Which might have been made by rabbit outside. Yeah, well, definitely by rabbits, I think. I mean, that's kind of obvious. Or turtles.

[Brett]

Who knows? The turtles. Because turtles and rabbits often go together. I don't know why turtles trails, because.

[Alice]

A lot of them swim. You know, turtles have always really baffled me because, you know, they're amphibious. So they're on the land exactly where you're going with this, and they're Also in the water. I don't know if you know where I'm going with this, because I'm not sure I know where I'm going with.

[Brett]

This, but I see what you're saying, but it's weird. The turtles live on the land and in the water at the same time.

[Alice]

At the same time. But they're not very fast on land. But they can't live in the water all the time. Like, they. They die if they think they need air. And so it just seems so weird that they are.

[Brett]

Turtles can drown?

[Alice]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. They can drown.

[Brett]

You that. I mean, I guess I did know that, but I. I don't know if.

[Alice]

Every type of turtle can drown, but I. Unfortunately, I'm going to definitely get a PETA letter. I know this because I have drowned turtles by accident.

[Brett]

Here we go. Here we go. Another story. I'm sorry. Okay, so here we go. Go ahead, tell the story before we get started. Go ahead and tell the story after this story. We're getting started, though, so go ahead.

[Alice]

Yeah.

[Brett]

Should we dive in after story, just like a turtle.

[Alice]

Nobody cares about my story. Should we just get started?

[Brett]

No, I want to hear your story.

[Alice]

We can always cut it out. We can always cut it out. So you guys. You guys, maybe this will save future turtles lives. I don't know if every turtle, I'm pretty sure because they're amphibious, they have to come up for air. So that's why I ask one question.

[Brett]

Before you get into the story.

[Alice]

How have I killed animals?

[Brett]

Well, it's a good question. What is the difference between a turtle and a tortoise? Can one of them live underwater or do they both have to breathe air? Maybe you don't know the answer.

[Alice]

I don't know if it's a tortoise, but a sea turtle, I think exactly.

[Brett]

Like a sea turtle. I've seen Finding Nemo. I think those different.

[Alice]

Even though they look a lot the same, they're probably even in the same family. I think they're very different, but I actually have no idea. But you're right.

[Brett]

They're related. They're just like.

[Alice]

No, no, they are related. But I think that those have gills, like on.

[Brett]

Do they have gills?

[Alice]

I think they have gills. The turtles I'm thinking of, it's like.

[Brett]

They stick their nose out.

[Alice]

You know, they stick their nose.

[Brett]

You've been to the park. There are turtles in that pond in the park. You always see their little noses sticking out of the water. I assume that's so they can breathe.

[Alice]

Exactly, exactly. But they don't have gills. Right. And they have to have their mouths up there. And typically, you see them sunbathing on rocks because they can swim to the top. But just like you and I, if you paddle forever, you get tired and you sink to the bottom. And then if you sink to the bottom, don't have air, you die. So that may have been what happened to one of my turtles that I caught from the creek. The same creek where I found the salamanders and lizards that I played with.

[Brett]

The ones. His earrings.

[Alice]

Yes. Yes, exactly. We don't have to revisit that. Yes, I. I played with all these adorable reptiles and amphibians. So anyways, the turtles, because I didn't put rocks in the water where I was keeping it, they did not make it all. I'm.

[Brett]

What would the rocks. What would the rocks have to do with anything they move?

[Alice]

Because they rest on the rocks.

[Brett]

On the rocks.

[Alice]

Correct. Correct. It was a place to rest so that they could breathe because they would otherwise paddle until they could no longer paddle.

[Brett]

Have you ever had turtle soup?

[Alice]

Yeah, of course. It's a very new Orlean thing.

[Brett]

That's what I was about to say.

[Alice]

Yeah.

[Brett]

I went to Commander's palace for the first time last year.

[Alice]

That's what they're famous for.

[Brett]

Oh, man, it's so good.

[Alice]

That and Bananas Fosters and lots of other things. Isn't it good? But I've never had turtles. I've only had turtle soup in the new Orlean fashion, meaning with a lot of sherry.

[Brett]

The first time I ever saw turtle soup was the first time I ever went to a Vietnamese restaurant. It was a nice Vietnamese restaurant in Georgetown. And the person sitting across from me was having turtle soup. And at that restaurant, which, like I said, was very nice, it was served in the shell.

[Alice]

Oh, wow.

[Brett]

Yeah.

[Alice]

Here's the thing. So the turtle soup you had. I assume I went to lots of Commander Palaces. Simply, like they. They. They've sued each other all over in the fifth circuit, that family. But that family, they open it.

[Brett]

They know it's good.

[Alice]

Yeah, exactly. It's not called Commander's palace, but it's the same family that opened it in Houston when I lived there. So I ate there all the time and had turtle soup. But the turtle soup I had there was like. It's, like, smooth, right. There's no chunks of turtle.

[Brett]

This was chunky. This was like chunky turtle soup.

[Alice]

I was going to say that's different, but there's a very distinct flavor.

[Brett]

See, that reminds me of, like, a she crab soup. What you're describing, you've had she crab soup.

[Alice]

Oh, she crab soup is one of my favorites.

[Brett]

I love she crab soup. Oh, God, I'm making myself hungry.

[Alice]

Are there he crabs, turtle?

[Brett]

I always wondered the same thing. And if you make she crab soup, do you have to make sure it's like a female crab? Like, is that.

[Alice]

Is it really a she crab or are they just she crabs?

[Brett]

It's kind of like how all. I think all chicken we eat is female chickens. Am I wrong about that?

[Alice]

Okay, so they're supposed to all be females because they pick them out, right? Think. But I think because roosters are. They either taste different or they're whatever. But I think because chickens are. There's all this, like, humaneness of how we raise them, and we overfeed them. And then because we eat a lot of chickens in this country, I think some farms sell young roosters whose testicles have not descended, and people find their testicles when they eat the chickens.

[Brett]

Wait, okay, I know when I know we need to get started. But hold on a second. I don't think I. Hold on now, hold on. I don't even know if I knew that roosters had testicles. I mean, I guess I. I had to know that. Is that a real thing? Are you making that up? You're making that up.

[Alice]

I might be making it up, but I'm not trying to fool you.

[Brett]

If you're listening, I want you to tell us whether or not.

[Alice]

But here's the thing. Let me tell you about roosters. Have you seen how furry they are with the feathers?

[Brett]

There's no telling where you're going with this. Have you killed a rooster, too?

[Alice]

I'm not. No, I've not personally been the actor who effectuated it. But you know the thing with roosters, when you what hens laying and you have too many roosters, you don't need that many roosters, so you have to. Chick sex. Is that term that you used in your law class? Because I did that in law.

[Brett]

In law class, not so much.

[Alice]

Yeah.

[Brett]

So here's a question about that, and I'm sorry to keep going down rabbit trails on this, but you just keep raising questions.

[Alice]

I'm sorry.

[Brett]

So if you have a hen. I don't know anything about this, and I know this is really popular among sort of the hipster set these days.

[Alice]

Do we still have hipsters as well? Hipsters or homesteaders. It's a very wide range. Yes.

[Brett]

People have their own chickens.

[Alice]

My hoa.

[Brett]

Do you need a rooster to cause the Chicken to lay eggs? Or do you not want a rooster because you want eggs that are not fertilized?

[Alice]

You don't want a rooster at all, Correct? Well, I mean, you actually want a rooster so that you can keep having hens because hens get eaten a lot by wildlife.

[Brett]

Does the rooster protect the hands because it got the spurs?

[Alice]

No. No. You want the rooster so that you can have some fertilized eggs so that you can then hatch some little chicks.

[Brett]

Replacement hens.

[Alice]

Replacement hens. But no, the egg.

[Brett]

Roosters are vicious, man. They are the reason they fight, those things.

[Alice]

He prosecuted some of those cases we should do about that. It's really interesting.

[Brett]

And I like South Carolina Commander or whatever his name is, Sir Cox, a lot. Okay, I forget what his name is.

[Alice]

All of those are great options.

[Brett]

Yeah.

[Alice]

Wait real quick.

[Brett]

Maybe it's just cocky, but cocks a lot. In cock.

[Alice]

I like Sir Cox a lot.

[Brett]

Very much.

[Alice]

That was one of the first cases I worked on when I became a prosecutor. Actually fighting.

[Brett]

But think about that. You know, it used to be legal in Oklahoma, and they made it illegal. And I'll just tell you, I grew up in a place where you saw people raising roosters all the time. And it wasn't for fertilizer for me.

[Alice]

Wasn't for me.

[Brett]

But I've never been to a cockfight.

[Alice]

I bet you there you really. You've never been to a cockfight?

[Brett]

Never been to a cockfight. I will say this. I don't want to alienate any listeners. I would not go to a dog fight. I find that personally offensive. I love dogs. I would totally go to a cockfight. Then we're going to start circumstance. If it was legal. If I was in the Philippines. Okay.

[Alice]

If it was illegal. So when we do legal things. Undercover sting for the fighting.

[Brett]

Did you.

[Alice]

All these agents had to dress like they would be going to a fight because they were going to a fight, but they had to be undercover. And I've never laughed so hard at our colleagues before. I think one of them literally blacked out his tooth.

[Brett]

Have we started this this yet, or are we still talking? Guys, we want to talk about one of our favorite podcasts, a podcast we love so much. We have appeared on it multiple times. Silver Linings Handbook with Jason Blair. Jason is a friend of ours, but he's not just that. He is an incredible interviewer and incredible podcaster, and his episodes will pull something out of you you didn't even know was there. He says that he wants to have conversations that inspire, and he does. Just that with interesting conversations with interesting people. And the themes that he looks at are not just true crime though he's got a lot of great true crime episodes as well. He talks about growth, understanding, belonging, compassion, things that are important in true crime and in life.

[Alice]

And you guys, even if you think you've heard something before, Jason is able to bring out things you never thought about. Just check out these recent episodes. He had an interview with Kimberly Loring, the sister of a 20 year old missing Montana woman, Ashley Loring, heavingwriter. And about her search for her sister, finding faith in God and forgiving those who harmed Ashley. You'll have to check out this incredible interview he had about journalists in Minnesota and Iowa who are still advocating for and searching for Jody Hussen Truitt, a broadcast journalist who disappeared in 1995. And then there's this interview with a friend of a domestic violence victim who was murdered in 2023 in Minnesota about what friends can do to be non judgmental and supportive of those who are facing interperson abuse. You guys have got to check out this incredible podcast, Silver Linings Handbook. You can get it wherever you listen to podcasts. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You choose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice. Progressive loves to help people make smart choices. That's why they offer a tool called Auto Quote Explorer that allows you to compare your progressive car insurance quote with rates from other companies so you save time on the research and can enjoy savings when you choose the best rate for you. Give it a try after this [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.

[Brett]

So.

[Alice]

Oh God. Sorry, sorry.

[Brett]

We're going to review. Okay, let's. Before we get started though, because I mentioned Finding Nemo. You've seen Finding Nemo, right?

[Alice]

Oh, I love Finding Nemo.

[Brett]

Do you still not let your kids watch TV or is that.

[Alice]

We don't watch tv. Wait, can I tell you a really quick story about Nemo though?

[Brett]

Yes.

[Alice]

My kids don't watch tv, but they read books and obviously a lot of these, you know, Disney movies and movies, Pixar movies get turned into books. So we have the Finding Nemo book. And you know how Nemo's written. Like it's all wavy, kind of like a sea, whatever.

[Brett]

A wave?

[Alice]

Yeah, like a wave because it's an oceanic themed movie. So my.

[Brett]

I went to the Finding Nemo ride when we were at Disney World.

[Alice]

Is there a ride?

[Brett]

There's a ride. And they also the Ride kind of sucks, but it ends in an aquarium. And the aquarium's awesome.

[Alice]

Hey, that's awesome. Do you know what's. What character is in Finding Nemo that I find very interesting? The whale.

[Brett]

The whale. You know, I've eaten one.

[Alice]

The whale.

[Brett]

The whale that swallows them and then takes them to Sydney. Yeah.

[Alice]

Yeah.

[Brett]

I like the sharks.

[Alice]

Did you. Did you see that viral clip that just went by? The whale that actually did swallow.

[Brett]

Oh, yeah.

[Alice]

And then he spit him back out.

[Brett]

Yeah. Can you imagine?

[Alice]

It's crazy. Well, I'm curious. Why did he spit him back out? Because he. Well, I know that we don't taste good, but he didn't have time to taste him.

[Brett]

Like, I don't think the whale can actually eat something that big.

[Alice]

Oh, so he was just lucky, I think.

[Brett]

Yeah.

[Alice]

I don't know. I believe in my Bible stories. Jonah and the whale.

[Brett]

Most people think it was a giant fish. Can fishy people that big? Depends on how big the fish was.

[Alice]

That's fair.

[Brett]

And also, you had God intervening. So even if it was. Well, I mean, a killer whale can eat people and they're.

[Alice]

I mean, but they eat people. They don't swallow you whole.

[Brett]

But if. I mean, we have divine intervention here. So if. Swallow you, whatever. Blue whales are crazy. I mean, do you realize blue whales, the largest. You know, you think about dinosaurs, you think about how huge dinosaurs are, and in your mind, the big animals all lived way back in the day. Right. The blue whale, which lives on the Earth right now, is the largest animal to ever exist on the face of the Earth. You can stand in its heart.

[Alice]

That is insane. And my. My oldest son told me that the other day, because I did not know that fact. And somehow you and him should hang out because he was like, what's the largest animal that's ever lived in the world? And I said, like, the Diplodocus Brachiosaurus or something.

[Brett]

Right.

[Alice]

Anything. Yeah, one of the dinosaurs. Long tails.

[Brett]

Yeah.

[Alice]

And the long necks. Surely if you stretch them out, they're longer than a. Nope, not as big as a blue whale, which is amazing. And they eat, well, like tiny plankton. That's amazing.

[Brett]

Massive amounts of it. And that's how the guy got eaten. Because, you know, they go to the bottom, they go up, they open their mouth, and they go all the way up and they're eating on it and. And they breach. And that dude just happened to be where the whale was preaching, and so the whale ate him.

[Alice]

But then that's pretty crazy, that.

[Brett]

Never been eaten by an animal. Before I've been bitten by a dog.

[Alice]

Like multiple dogs. Have you been bitten by your dog? Because I know. Oh, okay, okay. We'll get to this real quick. But speaking of animals, I know that your dog is just very protective is all. I really barely ever see your dog. Because you're nice enough to remove him when I come over. Has he bit you before?

[Brett]

No.

[Alice]

Really?

[Brett]

He would not bite me. No way.

[Alice]

I actually find that because I've had dogs that are very bite friendly, like.

[Brett]

Not bit my mother in law and felt bad about it because he didn't know it was her when he did it. Because he knows her and likes her. But it was our fault. It was our fault. But he did buy and felt bad about it. Yeah, but he would never bite me. He would never bite my wife. He'd never bite my kids. He would never do that.

[Alice]

But sometimes the dog I had, oh, first 100%, he would bite me. Yeah, no, he. I'm nobody to him.

[Brett]

And there would be bite marks on both sides. Unlike in Karen Reed case where they were only bite marks.

[Alice]

You should really cover.

[Brett]

Barely bite marks at all. Like scratches. Kind of. The scratches you might have, for instance, if your arm hit a, I don't know, the rear of a vehicle and then smashed out the tail light. Not to get onto another controversial case while we're talking about this case. Nevertheless.

[Alice]

Well, the case we're going to cover is not controversial.

[Brett]

Not at all.

[Alice]

Said hopefully. She said hopefully.

[Brett]

So you interrupted me earlier. I was trying to tell a story. Okay.

[Alice]

Neither of us have interrupted the other.

[Brett]

I know, I know. We need to get started. I get it. Give us some grace, guys. We're going to be talking about this case for 25 episodes.

[Alice]

We always talk.

[Brett]

We always talk more nervous in these big cases. I wish I hadn't already told my psychopath story because. By the way.

[Alice]

Yeah.

[Brett]

I gotta tell you this. At some point, one of the people at work failed. Failed or didn't fail. The psychopath story. And you'll not be surprised to learn who it is. So I'll do that with you later. So what was I talking about? Oh, television.

[Alice]

Television.

[Brett]

So you don't. You're just like a tiger. Oh, I can't imagine my kids not watching.

[Alice]

No. Okay, so my kids watch so much. That's not totally fair because my kids know what a TV is. We never turn it on. They have watched things before.

[Brett]

Sports.

[Alice]

No, because here's the thing.

[Brett]

They watch Auburn lose in basketball. Right. Surely.

[Alice]

I mean, TV's on everywhere. This is why it's really hard to stay away. So, like when we go to our favorite bar, because we take our kids to a bar, there's always football or basketball on. So you know it's there.

[Brett]

Yes, that's right. She takes her kids to the bar.

[Alice]

I do.

[Brett]

At the bar last weekend, the kids were there. They were all drunk.

[Alice]

It was, it was Britney's birthday party at the bar. Let's be honest.

[Brett]

It's a good point. The baby's two year birthday party and one year birthday party last year was at the bar. Great bar.

[Alice]

This is true. It's a great bar. She. It's like a second home to her.

[Brett]

She loved it. Yeah.

[Alice]

And I have plenty of pictures of my second son sitting at the bar. I couldn't find him and I was there. Is he. He was sitting at the bar chatting it up with the bartender, by the way. And I was like, you get better service than I do.

[Brett]

My daughter did the same thing. My wife gave her the credit card and she just like bellied up to the bar with the credit card and ordered all the, all the drinks. I mean, daddy would like an ipa.

[Alice]

I'm impressed that she remembers what to.

[Brett]

Get, you know, she could have though. She could have.

[Alice]

She. Yeah, she absolutely could. So. No, it's not that. So they've definitely seen things before. We have pulled the like fail safe. We're like, okay, we got to put on a Daniel Tiger because everyone's losing and oh, here's the thing. When we travel, they can watch all the.

[Brett]

As long as you don't do kalu.

[Alice]

You know, I don't know what that is. I don't know what that is.

[Brett]

That's awful.

[Alice]

We try, we really do try to stick with like the Mr. Rogers types and whatnot. And so. No, I would say like in a regular week, seven days. What are you talking about? I don't know what you're talking about.

[Brett]

I'm looking it up.

[Alice]

Okay, let's get started now. Let's get started because I really want to talk about the. Start doing the investigation. I still don't know what you're talking about. Not even.

[Brett]

Okay, okay, yes. Let's get started. Before we do. I've been trying to tell the story for like 30 minutes.

[Alice]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, okay. Please tell it.

[Brett]

So Bluey.

[Alice]

Oh, yes, please tell the bluey story.

[Brett]

Do you not watch Bluey with your kids?

[Alice]

I don't. Well, I think they have seen an episode before. I think they. They have seen episodes before so they know what bluey is. And I'VE seen a couple episodes, but we do not. It is not something we watch.

[Brett]

So look, I don't know what is about Bluey. Bluey is a masterpiece. Okay, so we're watching Bluey. My daughter. You know, you know how I feel. I mean I am, look, I am barely capable of surviving as an adult. I am, I tell my wife I'm just not cut out for life. I need to. I need to be hit by a bus or something. I cannot live, I cannot experience life as an adult because I just take everything. It's just too hard for me. I'm very emotional. I'm an emotional person. Have I ever told you about the time I'll talk about Blue in a second. Have you ever told you about the time that I took the malaria medication? Yeah.

[Alice]

If I told the story on the podcast, I don't think you've told it on the podcast. I'll tell you my malaria story after that.

[Brett]

So my wife and I back. It's been 12 years now. So when we went to Chernobyl, so we just worked on a presidential campaign. I wanted to say. I won't say which one though you can probably figure it out based on various reporting. So back in 2012 and after that was over, we decided we're going to take an around the world trip. So we bought a one way ticket. I mean if you have an opportunity to do this, you should totally do it. We bought a one way ticket to Hong Kong. Longest flight in the world. I mean we flew. It's actually not the flight Sydney's further but nevertheless it was like 18 hours. 18 hour flight to Hong Kong. Have you ever, you've. You've been to Taiwan? We used to probably.

[Alice]

We used to do this every summer. I don't know how my parents got me to sit on an 18 hour flight.

[Brett]

If you have never flown on one of those flights and it'll never be like it was because at the time there's no Internet. I loved it. I loved Trans Pacific flights so much because once you got on that flight no one could call you, no one could contact you. Just for 18 hours you were free. You were just, it was just you, just you and your book, whatever, you could relax. It was amazing. Anyways, I know why I'm talking about this. But anyways we did this whole round.

[Alice]

And back in the day, those 18 hour flights, especially if you want an Asian airline, the like accoutrements that came with it, they were great towels.

[Brett]

They treated.

[Alice]

I remember this candy cart. There was a candy cart when I was a kid and made those 18 hour trans, you know, Atlantic flights they would push. I still remember it was like the Bertie Bots. Every flavor beans from Harry Potter when they would be on the Hogwarts train. I mean, any candy you wanted, any snack you wanted and it was just so fun. And you made, you became friends with people on the flight. No one else to talk to.

[Brett]

Like light. Yeah, you made like. It was amazing. And you're right. And if you're going to Asia, they give you that great Asian food, like whatever it is, it's basically a bento.

[Alice]

Box, you know, probably some seaweed soup.

[Brett]

Why am I. Yes, seaweed soup. Why am I talking about this again? How did I lead into this? Remind me.

[Alice]

I have no idea. You were going on a one way trip around the world.

[Brett]

Around the world.

[Alice]

And I literally have no idea where we went.

[Brett]

What, how are we doing here? How did I get into this? I will say this. We went to Singapore and I went to Raffles, which is a hotel in Singapore where they invented the Singapore Sling. And it was $30 to get an original Singapore Sling. And. And you know, it's funny how much your life changes because at the time $30 for a drink was just absurd. It's still, still kind of absurd. But now like, whatever. Right, but at the time it's like, I can get one of these and we're gonna share it, right? And we had our Singapore Sling and it was good. What was that? What was the point of the story? I can't remember. I seriously can't remember.

[Alice]

What's the point of all of this?

[Brett]

Because I was talking about Bluey and.

[Alice]

Then you say, oh, valeria.

[Brett]

Malaria.

[Alice]

Malaria, yes.

[Brett]

Okay, so. And I promise, okay, we're gonna get started on the case scene. I promise.

[Alice]

Well, we will.

[Brett]

And this kind of, you know, mosquitoes play into the case. And this is about mosquitoes. So that's true. It all ties in.

[Alice]

They're attracted to your breath.

[Brett]

That's right. Yes.

[Alice]

There you go.

[Brett]

So going to Asia at. And I mean it was January, so I don't know that it was actually. It's always hot. If you go to Singapore, you go to Hong Kong, go to Vietnam.

[Alice]

That is true. There is Cambodia.

[Brett]

It doesn't matter what time it is. So I had to get malaria medication. And so I had read about these dreams. You know, at the time I was writing books and stuff and I had read about these dreams that you have when you're taking malaria medication, quinine. And I wanted to have these dreams, right, Malaria Dreams.

[Alice]

They're crazy.

[Brett]

Well, yeah, There you go. So I go to the doctor, and I'm like, hey, I'm going to Southeast Asia. Probably need some malaria drugs. And he said, yeah, you know, we got these new malaria drugs. They're great. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want the new drugs. I want quinine. I want to go like, you know, the British did in 1880, and they're like, you know, that has, like, really serious side effects, right? And I was like, that's fine. That's what I want. Quan. And they're like, you know, those are more expensive than the new drugs we have that don't have the side effects, and you don't have to take as much of. I don't care. I want the quinine. So the doctor's like, whatever, man. He gives me the quinine. And so, because it's a malaria drug. Malaria is a parasite. You have to basically take it so that your body is filled with quinine. Exactly. So that when the parasite enters your body, it dies. You have to coat yourself with quinine. So you have to take it weeks before you start your trip. So I get my quinine, and I'm taking it weeks before. And, you know, right as we're getting ready to leave, I just. I started noticing. I was just so emotional all the time. Like, I would watch commercials, and I would tear up. I'd be like, this is, like, making me sad, right? And there was this. There was this song. I can't remember who it's by, but it was. It was called welcome to the Future, Right? It's a country music song. And so it starts off with, like, the guy's talking about how his grandfather fought in World War II, and now he's on a video call with Tokyo. Welcome to the future. And it ends. It does this whole thing about how, like, you know, his friend was the running back and the high school football team, and they burned across in his front yard because he dated the prom queen. And then, like, Martin Luther King had a dream, and I just start balling. I hear the song, which I've heard a thousand times.

[Alice]

Kitschy country club, you know, and I just start balling.

[Brett]

I'm like, yes, he had a dream, right? I'm just balling. And I'm like, why am I so emotional? And it turns out that one of the side effects of quinine is intense emotions. So I never got the dreams. I never had the malaria dreams. The only thing I got was the emotion I just cried at the drop of a hat.

[Alice]

I had the psychedelic dreams. They were wasted on me because you could have written about them. I. Okay. I don't know if you guys have. So I went to Honduras when I was right after high school. I spent some time there doing, you know, like, good. Good deeds, whatever you want to call them. Great way to really just fill your body with real parasites. And I came back with lice, parasites, worms. It was horrible, physically.

[Brett]

All the best.

[Alice]

I didn't get malaria.

[Brett]

Yeah. So let me just say on this trip, like, mosquitoes. I was just covered up. Mosquitoes. But I never got malaria.

[Alice]

There you go. So the emotions, you cried them away. This. This guy, way too emotional for us. It was your tears that killed them.

[Brett]

Tears kill.

[Alice]

So these. And I don't. I'm really interested to hear your malaria dreams. For anyone else who had malaria, they were like, yeah, not you. Sorry you didn't get them. But maybe other people had the same thing. But I was taking them, and my. I went with, like, another girl, and we. We were roommates, and she had them, too. We would share our malaria dreams because they were so psychedelic. And then our malaria dreams, like, merged because we spent so much time together.

[Brett]

Wow.

[Alice]

I don't. I have no idea. Like, maybe she was just, you know, punking me, and she just repeated whatever I said. But everything was quite literally in, like, Technicolor. It was like when the dream would start out with, like, wizard of Oz, when it was still black and white. And then sometime in the dream, it just, like, became all of a sudden, like Technicolor, but also warped. Like, everything was weird and tall and wavy.

[Brett]

That is amazing.

[Alice]

And loud. It was a rave. It was like a. It's like a dance rave.

[Brett]

I never been to a rave. Or a foam party.

[Alice]

You have it. You went to Alabama?

[Brett]

We didn't do rave so much. We just drank a lot.

[Alice]

I mean, it wasn't like, a real. I haven't been to, like, a real rave, like, at a club I've been to.

[Brett]

I don't do drugs, unlike you.

[Alice]

No, I've been to, like, theme parties that are raves.

[Brett]

Okay. So anyways. Okay, I know we gotta get started, but before we do that, I'm trying to tell my bluey story.

[Alice]

Oh, bluey story already. What is it?

[Brett]

I don't know how malaria came into this. Okay, before we get started, Bluey. Okay. Do you know about Bluey? It's a dog.

[Alice]

I. I've seen bluey. Yes, yes, I know. And it's like, A very. It's a very good show.

[Brett]

It's so great. You haven't watched Bluey. It's Australian. It's our Australian.

[Alice]

Stopping it, right? Oh, no, they're not stopping. The guy who created it is, like, leaving. No, no, they're still making it, but he's leaving.

[Brett]

Oh, it probably won't be as good. It's so good.

[Alice]

I know.

[Brett]

Anyway, so I'm watching my daughter. You know, you know how I felt about my daughter. And talk about. I mean, she can make.

[Alice]

She's great.

[Brett]

So much. She's amazing. I mean, I love my son, too. If you're listening. If you're listening in 20 years, son, I love you just as much as my daughter. I'm not saying I don't, but I was watching Bluey with your sister and so Bluey, if you don't know. So there's this family of blue healers. So I guess in Australia they have blue heelers. It's like an animal or dog they have. And so there's mom, who is. I can't remember her name. Chili. Chili is her name. Dad is Bandit. And then there's Bluey. And then there's. What's the last dog's name? Little sister dog. I can't remember. Let's. Let me get dad, mom, what is that dog's name?

[Alice]

Wow. Wow. That whole. That did not work. I wish.

[Brett]

I thought. I thought if I went. I'm literally. I'm seeing it in my head. Hold on, hold on. Just hold on one second.

[Alice]

I'm totally gonna Google this and see.

[Brett]

If you get it.

[Alice]

Is it Pom Pom?

[Brett]

It's not Pom Pom, is it, Bobo?

[Alice]

I'm just. No.

[Brett]

Guys, we want to talk about one of our favorite podcasts and one of our favorite creators, Crossing the Line with M. William Phelps. You know him as the New York Times best selling author of 46 books. He's an investigative journalist and winner of the Excellence in Investigative Journalism award from the Society of Professional Journalists. And if there's one thing we need more of in true crime, it's people who actually understand how to research and chase a story. And he has absolutely done that. In fact, he consulted on the first season of the hit Showtime cable television series Dexter. And he is executive producer, writer, and co host of the number one Apple true crime podcast franchise Paper Ghosts.

[Alice]

And, you guys, Phelps is the real deal. He didn't just glow in with the Wind when true crime became popular. He has been part of the true crime space for 25 years. He's consulted on over 350 hours of true crime television, executive produced documentaries, weekly series, and he's even written seven books about these true crime stories. He's a highly sought after expert and speaker for his extensive knowledge regarding historic and contemporary serial killers. Check out Crossing the Line with M. William Phelps Weekly podcast and number one narrative podcast paper Ghosts from iHeartRadio. Both executive produced, written and hosted by M. William Phelps. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Let's talk about numbers guys. Traditional in person therapy can cost anywhere from 100 to $250 per session, which adds up fast. But with BetterHelp online therapy you can save an average of up to 50% per session. With BetterHelp you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions, saving you big on costs and on time. Therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. With online therapy you get quality care at a price that makes sense and can help you with anything from anxiety to everyday stress. Your mental health is worth it and now it's within reach. We talk about this all the time. Therapy isn't just for big traumatic events, although it can be helpful in those situations. It's also just helpful to learn positive coping skills and how to set boundaries. I know it helps me empower me to be the best version of myself when I have to be lawyer, mom, podcaster, all the things things in my life. Therapy helps me be the best me. With over 30,000 therapists, better help is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. It's convenient too. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life plus switch therapists at any time. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com prosecutors to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com prosecutors guys, finally, vacation season is nearly upon us. This year I'm treating myself to the luxe upgrades I deserve with Quince's high quality travel essentials at fair prices. I know you guys have heard me rave about all of my amazing high quality pieces that I wear for work and for fun from Quint. But did you know they also have first class quality suitcases at an economy price tag. It's going to be perfect for all the trips I plan to take this spring and summer with my kids, to the beach, to the lake. It is going to make travel feel so luxe. I also am just loving their European linen styles from $30 and of course their washable silk Tops, which I can pack with me when I go to court and still look great going out to dinner in them. Of course, you know I love my comfy lounge sets. The best part, all Quint's Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings onto us. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I love that. And you bet I'm packing all these awesome items into my new expandable suitcase. It is fantastic. They even have a kids version that I got my kids to match me when we have our carry On. Bags that match, are beautiful and are durable. For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from quints. Go to quints.com prosecutors for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N C E.com prosecutors to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com prosecutors.

[Brett]

Bingo.

[Alice]

Bingo.

[Brett]

Bingo.

[Alice]

I need that.

[Brett]

Bingo. Bluey. Okay, anyway, so Blue. Bluey. Bluey is, you know, the main dog. Anyways, so this, the episode was called Grandpa. Okay, so Bluey and Bingo and Chili, who's the mom, are going to see her dad now. He's. He's recovering from heartworms.

[Alice]

So that's very serious for a dog.

[Brett]

I know. Exactly.

[Alice]

Very serious.

[Brett]

So, you know, they. They stop there and the kids run out and she's like, be careful, kids. Grandpa's recovering from heartworms or whatever. And so they. But then basically they're all playing and they're leaving mom behind. And so Mom's trying to catch up. Tell everybody they need to be. They need to be like. They need to, like, don't listen. Dad doesn't need to be so active, right? So the whole episode. And the episodes are only like eight minutes long, but the whole episode she's trying to catch up with them. And so finally she catches up with them. They're on this dock. Granddad, Grandpa is sitting at the edge of the dock and the kids are swimming and. And I just. I'm having to hold on. I gotta hold things together.

[Alice]

Are you gonna be okay?

[Brett]

So, so I was telling my dad this story, by the way, and I could not get through it. I was like, this is ridiculous.

[Alice]

You guys may not be able to see this, but Brett is literally tearing up right now. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness.

[Brett]

So Grandpa's not an axe. He's not sitting on the edge. He's sitting on the edge of the piercing. And the kids are swimming, and Chili comes up, and she sits down next to her dad, grandpa. And they're talking, you know, about how when she was a little puppy and all sort of stuff. And, like. And she says to him.

[Alice]

Wow, you guys, Brett's literally crying right now.

[Brett]

I don't know what she says to him. She says to him, do you remember when I used to swim? And I'm watching this with my. I mean, my daughter's literally sitting on my lap watching this. Do you remember when I used to swim here? And he's like, yeah. And she goes, it was so long ago. And he says, no, it was only yesterday. Oh, he says. He says, no, it was only yesterday. And when he says that, it. For a split second, she's no longer an adult dog. She's a puppy sitting next to her dad. And when that happens, I am not kidding. I just burst into tears. I've never had this happen to me, actually. Like, such an emotional reaction.

[Alice]

Were you taking quinine?

[Brett]

I burst into tears. And I'm just crying, but I'm. But the fact that it's happening that I am, like, crying at this, so suddenly I'm also laughing. So I'm, like, laughing and crying, and my daughter, all five years, turns around, looks at me and goes, daddy, are you okay? I was like, yes, I'm okay. I mean, it was so, like, just. I don't know if you haven't seen that.

[Alice]

I'm definitely gonna go watch this eight minute Grandpa now. Not clip. I'm gonna watch it now.

[Brett]

Now I have made me cry, so Grandpa will make you cry. I haven't seen the Sign. The Sign is like the definitive bluey episode that will make you cry, but.

[Alice]

I will watch that one, too, I guess.

[Brett]

The sign is, like, 28 minutes long, and it really builds up to it. Whatever. But Grandpa, man, it just hit me. It was like a sledgehammer in my face, and it made me cry.

[Alice]

So. Okay. I mean, with that, though. But this actually leads perfectly into what we're talking about today, because. Talking about the innocence, you know, of childhood.

[Brett]

Exactly.

[Alice]

Innocence of childhood. And how, you know, it seems like just yesterday, your kids are in this carefree world. Yeah.

[Brett]

And I'm about to start into that because I'm about to have a baby in life.

[Alice]

I know. I can't believe it.

[Brett]

Ten days or so.

[Alice]

Okay, so I. I cried. I cried a little bit because, you know, I'm passing on some of these baby Things to y'all, which I'm very happy to do, but my baby has already outgrown them. Like, we're no longer.

[Brett]

Blows your mind. Right?

[Alice]

Right. Because he was literally just born. And. And I'm talking to Mrs. Brett and I'm like, do you need, you know, like the baby swing, the boppy, you know, baby holder? And I was like, we've outgrown it already. Like, he's never going to be that small again. And then I lost it, you know.

[Brett]

And that's the thing about being a parent is because you're trying to hold on. I mean, your kids.

[Alice]

We'll get started. But one of my favorite scenes, and this is fed to me on social media all the time, is I didn't watch every episode, but I watched a good bit. Have you ever watched Modern Family?

[Brett]

Yeah.

[Alice]

Okay. One of the greatest speeches. You know, the grandpa. I don't. I honestly cannot remember any of their names, but I know who you're talking about. The patriarch, the grandpa. And he's like the gruff man. And he's, you know, like, not touchy feely at all, but there's this amazing speech that he gives about what it's like to be a parent. And every time it comes up on my social media, I watch it in its entirety and I cry. And the gist of it, I'm not going to do it right. I'm not going to do it right. But he's always gruff. He's, you know, never hugs his kids, all those sorts of things. And. And he says, you know, along the lines of your bluey episode, he's like, when a kid grows up, you know, you get to. You don't even have time because life is so fast. You get so excited and the next phase, you don't even think about how they've just gotten bigger and they keep getting bigger and then they become a teenager. But then one day they wake up and they leave your house. But it's not just them leaving their house. They're leaving their house with every iteration of them before, like, all the way down to, like the little toddler sitting in your lap, down to the little baby who is on that little pillow. And he's like. And that's why it breaks you inside. Because you're not just losing the one child, you're losing, you know, all the versions of the child that you've grown and loved. And I'm like, oh, my God, all these versions of my child.

[Brett]

I think everybody should be a parent. I know that's not the thing to say these days, but I think everybody should be a parent.

[Alice]

Well, you know, I think that's a.

[Brett]

But it's terrible.

[Alice]

But you know, why. But I think that's why it's wonderful. It is the most incredible thing you can do that you have no control. You. You. I've never felt so powerless and so inept as I am as a parent.

[Brett]

Totally inept.

[Alice]

Wonderful as a human being, because that is the reality of the world. Like, somehow in life, I've been able to get by pretty well in life knowing nothing. Somehow people just keep, like, passing me in school and I get, like, jobs and stuff. But parenting everyone, it's such an even playing field. Like you. You know nothing. You know nothing, Jon Snow. And it breaks you open.

[Brett]

You've seen tv. I mean, the thing is, I've seen tv.

[Alice]

My kids don't, though.

[Brett]

The thing about parenting is, before you have kids, nothing you do really matters because it all ends with you, right? Like, you know, and look, I get it. Some people don't have kids, and that's great, you know, God bless you. That's not me. That's you. That's fine. But if you don't have kids, it all dies with you, and that's. That's fine, right? Like, your accomplishments, your failures, your highs, your lows, your happinesses, your sadnesses, whatever, it all dies with you, and that's fine. It's like, kind of a cool way to live your life in some ways. It's like, whatever. It's kind of, you know, that's good. I live my life. I did the best I could. Whatever. See you next life, right? But when you have kids, everything. You have this, like, consequence that goes beyond you and everything you do, you. You feel like number one for the next generation, right? I mean, the feeling of failure. I feel failure more with children than I've ever felt with any. Anything in my life. Because I always feel like I'm failing them. Like, I'm not doing whatever I'm doing is not what I should be doing for them. That's how I feel about it.

[Alice]

I mean, I think that's why we always worry, like, I. People will be like, oh, why do you. Why do you care about them not staying in their seat during dinner time? And I'm like, because it is my job. Like, this is. This is a person that I am responsible for in terms of, like, what I send out into the world for their own good, but for also the, like, eternity ripple effects. Like, it is the problem.

[Brett]

It's the ripple Effects.

[Alice]

It's huge. The.

[Brett]

The like downstream effects of everything you do. Like, you don't know.

[Alice]

Which has to do with the case we're talking about. Right. Like people and how they were raised. It's going to literally affect an entire community forever. And that is the responsibility of a parent. And we're going to talk about parents. And boy, do we talk about parents in this case. And, you know, even as suspect. But like, I mean, it is. It is just a heavy, heavy thing. But I mean, I'm. I clearly, obviously have so many kids. I agree. I mean, I think someone had asked me this in one of our question and answers that we didn't quite get to get into because the question answer went so long. But they're like, did you ever want a big family? I think that's interesting because, you know, to some people, I don't have a big family. To others, I am like insane for how many kids I have. So it's a matter of perspective. But truthfully, 10 years ago, no, there was no world where I thought I would have four kids. Not because I didn't want it. I just. It was never something that I was like, set out to do, you know, but once I had one kid, I was like, well, I'm done. Let's just have all the kids. Like, why not, man? Like, this is more meaningful than anything I've ever accomplished in my life. And I love it. I'm so tired all the time, but it's so worth it. So worth it.

[Brett]

And I always, you know, I thought I should have kids because that's what people do, you know, I was like, what people? What do people do? They get jobs, they get married, they have kids, have a job, they got married. I guess I need to have kids. And I remember right before my daughter was born thinking, well, this is the end of my life. All the fun things I've been able to do before, you know, can't just go to a concert, can't just go to the bar. And then it was like, wow, life started. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I was like, why did I not do this before? Yeah, it's like technical color.

[Alice]

Right? Like, I didn't know I was living in black and white.

[Brett]

Yeah.

[Alice]

And. And I say this all the time. I mean, now we're gonna get kind of personal, but again, it relates to the story we're talking about now. I didn't not have a good childhood, but I am getting the privilege of basically having the childhood I wish I had alongside my kids. And it's not that I'm using my kids to have their childhood. But rather like seeing their utter joy at the magicness of childhood is like healing the hurts of my childhood, if that makes sense. And like, like, that's incredible. I mean, you know, of course that sounds very selfish, but there's this incredibly, like, full circle opportunity where I truly feel like my life is just beginning, even though numerically has not.

[Brett]

Yeah. It's so true. You know, Alice, I would say that this is a great place to start the episode, but I looked at the recording and actually we have been talking for so long that I feel like this is probably the end of this episode.

[Alice]

I guess so. Yeah.

[Brett]

Yeah.

[Alice]

I mean, baby Allison is about to wake up. So.

[Brett]

Yeah. We just talked for so long. I don't know what to say.

[Alice]

Well, it's okay.

[Brett]

Yeah, it's okay. We can. We can. We'll do episode two tomorrow, right? We just do tomorrow.

[Alice]

Get started. We'll really get started tomorrow. This is all. Everything we've talked about. Everything we've talked about absolutely feeds into this case. And you guys, you're gonna understand when this comes full circle at the end of, you know, 25 episodes. What we talked about today right now, this was not for naught. This all wraps up and you. It will become crystal clear when we get to crystal clear, crystal clear what we've talked about here. So if you've already figured it out, I would say instead of you being a psychopath, you are a genius. A genius. I say.

[Brett]

Okay, so just looking at this looks like. Okay, looking at our calendar, looks like this episode will come out around the 1st of April. I guess we'll go ahead and do the next episode tomorrow. Just for you guys who have listened to this whole thing, I feel like you deserve, rather than wait a whole week, we'll do the next episode tomorrow. Does that sound good to you, Alice?

[Alice]

Yeah.

[Brett]

Yeah.

[Alice]

Yeah, I guess that makes sense.

[Brett]

I guess it makes sense since this one was. This one went kind of long.

[Alice]

A little bit like. Kind of feel like people are gonna leave some one star reviews.

[Brett]

Yeah, that's fine. One star review before they do it.

[Alice]

They should really.

[Brett]

Exactly.

[Alice]

Calendar.

[Brett]

Yeah, probably, but people never do that.

[Alice]

People.

[Brett]

Okay, well, we're already excited to hear your thoughts on this case, so shoot us an email prosecutorspot, gmail.com and prosecutors pod for all your social media talk about on the gallery. We'll be there. If you want to view these episodes early and ad free, join Patreon. Okay, Alice, before we sign off for today, do you have any Any last minute thoughts as we get started on this case?

[Alice]

Yeah, I think this is going to be one of the most researched, most intense and most divisive cases we will ever cover. And I think it is not an understatement to say that. I just, I don't know. I don't know that we can ever top this case. So we better make it a good one.

[Brett]

Better make it a good one. You know, you want to leave a legacy. Maybe this case will be our, our final statement on this podcast. But closing point, Alice, perhaps closing argument. Yeah, it's a good way to end this, this episode. It's no joke. It's a very serious, very serious issue. Okay, well, thank you, Alice, for those thoughts. Definitely the.

[Alice]

I'm sorry.

[Brett]

Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

[Alice]

I just want to say, you know, it's. It's really not a joke when you're talking about murder ever. Right. So I just wanted to make that clear for everyone who's making a one star review. Who says, why do they chit chat? How dare you joke all the time? How dare you?

[Brett]

How dare you, sir? How dare you, sir, madam or madam Start April, it's. It's an important month. But yeah, I agree with Alice 100%. And this is definitely the longest introduction we've ever had to a case. And that's fine. That's fine. This case deserves it. In case you have a longer introduction than this case.

[Alice]

If we didn't do this type of an introduction, I think people would actually be angry because we didn't spend enough time.

[Brett]

Yeah, we're doing this for you.

[Alice]

Introducing it.

[Brett]

It's a good point. Fine point, Alice. Fine point.

[Alice]

I do it.

[Brett]

That's why you are the best co host in true crime.

[Alice]

You're the best. Well, happy April.

[Brett]

Happy April. Welcome to April. Thank you, Alice. All right, we'll be back tomorrow with the continuation of this case. But until then, I'm Brett.

[Alice]

And I'm Alice.

[Brett]

And we are the prosecutors. Okay. Yeah, so we're just gonna, we're gonna talk around it.

[Alice]

Yeah.

[Brett]

And I'll be like, we have just been, you know, we've gone so long.

[Alice]

I got you. I gotcha.

[Brett]

You know, we're just gonna have to. We're gonna have to really get into the cake tomorrow.

[Alice]

Okay. I. I love it. I love it. Okay, so. But we're still gonna, like, sign it.

[Brett]

Oh, absolutely.

[Alice]

Okay. Okay. I got you. Okay. I'm in the game. I'm ready.

[Brett]

Okay, here we go.

[Alice]

We are so dedicated.

[Brett]

So dedicated.

[Alice]

We just finished a two hour question and answer legal briefs before filming this.

[Brett]

It's true. It's true. On a weekday.

[Alice]

On a weekday.

[Brett]

On a weekday.

[Alice]

Anyway, it is a weekday.

[Brett]

It is a weekday. Pluto TV has all the shows and movies you love streaming for free. That means laughter is free with gut busting comedies like the Neighborhood Boomerang and Ferris Bueller's day off. Bueller Mr. Is free with countless cases to crack from Criminal Minds Tracker and Matlock. I'm a lawyer like the old TV show and thrills are free with heart pumping hits like the Walking Dead and Pulp Fiction. Correct the mundo. Feel the free Pluto TV stream now. Pay Never.

[Alice]

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