← The Prosecutors
The Prosecutors
326. The Disappearance of Glen and Bessie Hyde Part 1 of 2 -- The River of Dreams
01:08:11
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- [00:02]
A
Hi, I'm Jessi Perry. And I'm Andy. Cassette. Welcome to Love Murder, where we unravel the darkest tales of romance turned deadly. Our episodes are long form, narrative driven and deeply researched. Perfect for the true crime aficionados seeking stories beyond the headlines. Like the chilling case of Blanche Taylor Moore, the so called black widow who left a trail of poisoned lovers. Or the shocking murders of Chad Shelton and Dwayne Johnson, where family ties masked a sin sinister plot. Subscribe to Love Murder on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen.
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B
I'm Brett.
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A
And I'm Alice.
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B
And we are the prosecutors on the Prosecutors. When two young newlyweds decide to raft the Colorado on their honeymoon, what happens next becomes one of the greatest mysteries of the Grand Canyon. What happened to Glenn and Bessie Hyde? Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of the Prosecutors. I'm Brett and I'm joined as always by my intrepid co host, Alice.
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A
Hi, Brett. Good word.
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B
Yeah.
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A
I really don't know after five years. I don't know if you've called me that before, but it's so fitting for the adventure of a case we have today.
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B
So I'm just gonna ask because I assume the answer is yes. Did you spend like a summer as a river rafting guide in the Colorado? Did you do that at some point in your life?
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A
That I did not do, but I did drive all night. Like, if you know the scene from Parks and Rec, it will resonate with you. I drove all night, like 12 hours to go watch the sunrise at the Grand Canyon. Literally watched the sunrise, turned around and went back to once I came. And that was one of the most magical times. I did not raft down the Colorado river, but I did stand in awe of the utter grand sheerness of the Grand Canyon in a much safer spot than where our story takes us today.
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B
Yeah. And I don't know, have you ever gone white water rafting before? You've probably done that.
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A
I have, I have. You have too.
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B
I've done that too. Yeah.
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A
Yes. Because there's like little rapids. I didn't do. Like, I didn't go over the Niagara.
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B
Falls in a barrel or down the Colorado river, which is one of the sort of. It's one of the most difficult things you can do and really an adventure because you can raft the entire Colorado pretty much. I mean, now obviously we have the dam and the lake and everything else, but it's a long trip. You can go camping, you can camp in the Grand Canyon. Really kind of amazing. And Grand Canyon, if you've never been there. I was always sort of under the impression that the Grand Canyon is a really big hole in the ground and what's the big deal, right? But when I went to see the Grand Canyon, I was like, okay, like photos don't do it justice. You have to go and stand on the edge and just look over this vast hole. I mean, it is a great, it is a grand.
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A
Is the grandest of holes, shall we say.
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B
And it blows you away. And it really is. I mean, it's one of those things that almost bring tears to your eyes because it's so beautiful and it's so amazing. And it's one of those places that sort of has a lot of mystery and magic to it. Sacred to a lot of the native peoples who lived in the area. Has some really sort of mysteries about it. Back in the early 1900s, there's this story that ran in a local newspaper about these two Smithsonian experts who went to the Grand Canyon and found in a cave this sort of like temple, this ancient temple that had these Egyptian and sort of Near East Buddhist style artifacts. And it was this great discovery that was going to change the history of the world and nobody ever saw it again. And so this is like a big conspiracy. Is the Smithsonian hiding evidence of like a lost Atlantis in the Grand Canyon? So that's the kind of things you have, the Grand Canyon. I'm a huge fan and the story that we're going to talk about today is one from really the earliest period of exploration and adventuring in the Grand Canyon. You think it's a very difficult river to raft down. It takes a lot of skill and expertise. But. But people do it all the time. Right now, people do it all the time. We're going to take you back to a time when only a couple of people had ever rafted the Grand Canyon. And we're going to talk about these two people who decided they were going to try and do it. And not only were they going to try and do it, they were going to do it on their honeymoon.
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A
It's quite the honeymoon. I mean, I don't know about you. I'm a little less. Well, I married someone a little less adventurous than me, shall I say? And everything that I asked to do on our honeymoon, Mr. Alice said, let's not end up a headline on CNN. And that is not what went through the heads of Glenn and Bessie.
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B
It's true. It was funny. I was just watching this documentary on Netflix. It's called like Volcano or something. It's called Volcano, but Something like that. And it's about this place in New Zealand. It was an active volcano that people would visit, and they would take boats and they'd go out and they'd look at all the smoke coming up, and it's really cool. And they. And they'd go home. And y' all may recall this story because it only happened a few years ago, but a group of people, including two people on their honeymoon, went out to the volcano, and the volcano erupted. So the story is all about the sort of having to save these people and the people who lost their lives, and really good, if you're into that sort of thing. So, you know, honeymoons, adventures on honeymoons can be. Can be kind of dangerous. My honeymoon, I went to Ireland, so there are no volcanoes.
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A
I mean, there are cliffs.
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B
There are cliffs. But I stayed well away from the edge of the cliffs because that's. I'm scared of that kind of thing. You know, I'm not really afraid of heights, per se. I've talked about this before, but just certain kinds of heights, and that would be one. Standing on the edge of a cliff is not something I want.
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A
Well, then you're not going to want to be very close to the edge of the Grand Canyon, because when you look down, because of the way it's layered in the. You absolutely know the depth, because if you've been to the Grand Canyon, every sedimentary layer is a different color. And so you see all the layers that you have to fall past in order to hit the very bottom, which is. It's called grand for a reason. Very far down. So when we're talking back, like, in the 20s and having someone raft down the river. We're not talking about, like, you know, a guide that you pay. You're not even talking about this big type of raft that's blown up with all these, like, accoutrements and life vests. No, our subjects are gonna raft down this on a boat that they build themselves at that.
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B
Yeah. And let's talk about these two people because their story is remarkable. And even though it's gonna end in mystery, what they did and what they accomplished is something that's just wild. GLENN Rollin Hyde is one of our heroes. He was born on December 9, 1898, to parents Rollin and Mary Hyde. And after some failed real estate ventures, Rollin, his father, lost the entire family fortune and moved the family to Davenport, Idaho, where he bought a plot of land and began logging timber and growing wheat. Now, I say this about Rollin. He's one of those People who made fortunes and lost them sort of over and over again. He would build a fortune, and then a panic would come through and wipe it out. So he was always sort of rebuilding his fortune, but it led to them becoming these sort of people of the land, which was something that would really affect Glenn. Now, Rollin, once again, was successful with this venture, and he was able to pay off his debts. And they sold this farm at a record price and moved to a citrus farm just outside of San Diego. And one of the reasons they did this was Mary had been very ill, and the weather in San Diego was much better for her, and it had been in Idaho. Unfortunately, the weather could only do so much, and she would pass away. And this led to the family relocating several more times throughout Glenn's childhood. But wherever they went, Glenn always maintained a passion for the outdoors. It was sort of his escape from what was a lot of hard work and were some tragedies throughout his life. And Glenn and his two siblings spent most of their lives outside, hiking and camping, fishing, picnicking. And by the time he was 18, Glenn was already quite the outdoorsman. In fact, he and his sister would raft the rivers in Idaho and the Northeast, the Green river, those sorts of places, in the very same boat or type of boat that he eventually would attempt to take down the Colorado River. And he spent his years post high school, in and out of college, because his real focus was on adventuring every chance he got.
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A
So while Glenn was definitely the outdoors adventure man, Bessie was somewhat different. Bessie Louise Haley was born on December 29, 1905, in Takoma Park, Maryland. The Haley family would eventually relocate to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where her father, William, worked as a painter and wallpaper hanger, and her mother, Lottie, stayed home raising Bessie and her brother. And Bessie was friendly, smart, creative, and she had a real passion for art. In June of 1926, just months before completing her degree at Marshall College, Bessie Haley spontaneously married a man she met in high school named Earl Helmick. But this marriage didn't last long. Just two months later, Bessie was living in San Francisco alone.
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B
And there's a lot of speculation about this and about why this happened, I should say, by the way, I mean, there's a few podcasts that have covered this, There's a few YouTube channels that have covered it. It was covered on the very first episode of Unsolved Mysteries, so you can always go back to that. But there's a great book called Sunk Without a Sound. Really good. I read it. You'll enjoy it. Check that out. And It'll tell you this whole story and it goes into a lot of these details. But the speculation, probably not surprising, is that Bessie was pregnant when she got married to Earl, but probably lost the child. So they were married very quickly after she lost the child, then didn't really want to stay with Earl. She'd known him her whole life, but wasn't really what she was looking for. So she moves to San Francisco.
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A
So how did she go to San Francisco? Well, In February of 1927, Bessie's roommate at the time convinced her to move to Hollywood with her so that the pair could pursue a career in acting. And Bessie agreed and the pair booked an overnight steamboat ride from San Francisco to Los Angeles. These rides were popular with young people. And honestly, it sounds like a really fun time because the round trip ride was three days. And they spent the trip eating good food, dancing, and just enjoying all the luxuries the steamboat had to offer. And it was on the steamboat where Bessie Haley and Glenn Hyde met for the first time.
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B
And by the way, Alice, there were two steamboats that would make their way on this route. Do you know what they were called?
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A
A ship named Peerless and another one named Peerless. Sorry, that was a really dorky legal, jokey.
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B
Legal joke. No, but an appropriate one. It was the Harvard and the Yale. Wow.
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A
I thought I was making a nerdy legal joke, but that's pretty cute.
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B
And I don't know which one they met on, but it was one of them. And this, she's in San Francisco and it was a very bohemian place at the time. Her friend and roommate, he wanted to move to Hollywood, had been a nude model at the College for the Artist. So she was very bohemian. She actually had a pretty successful career in Hollywood first and silent movies and then various other things. So interesting person as well. But obviously Bessie meets Glenn and the dreams of Hollywood have been replaced by this instant connection between the two of them. And here's how Sunk Without a Sound described it. Glenn and Betsy had a tremendous amount in common. Both were extremely bright, had been active in drama and debate, and were talented writers. Both of them were uncommonly good looking, which we're going to show you a picture later. They are each had a yin for the extraordinary, for adventure, for travel. So really they are perfect for each other. And not long after meeting Betsy, she's now traveling back to Idaho to meet Glenn's family. And later that year, Glenn went to meet Bessie's family and inform them that the couple planned to wed. However, there was a problem. You may Recall that Earl's still around. So they go back to the Haley family home and there's Earl waiting to win back his wife. Doesn't work. Bessie has moved on. I don't know that she was ever really that interested in Earl in sort of a long term proposition. And so she asks him for a divorce, which he refuses. So Bessie does the next best thing. She moves to Nevada in November of 1927. And Nevada in 1927 was a lot like Nevada today. Things were different. The rules were more lenient and that included the divorce laws. So she had to live there long enough to establish her residency. Then she files for divorce, and In April of 1928, her divorce is granted, at which point she says goodbye to Nevada, catches a train and heads to Idaho. And only a couple days later, on April 12, 1928, Glenn and Bessie were married. The couple lived together in Murtaugh, Idaho, and worked on Glenn's bean and potato farm, which is talked about adventurous beans and potatoes, nothing better than that. Now, obviously, work on the farm was tough and the couple was looking forward to escaping on their honeymoon once the harvest season ended and they had quite a, an exciting trip lined up. They were going to run the rapids of the Colorado River.
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A
I do have to note the fact that her divorce was granted in April 1928. She literally jumped on that train, I think as soon as the court stamped her papers. Because April 12, it kind of takes a while to get on that train and get all the way up to Idaho. It's like she stepped off the plane and they, boom, got married. But I think this kind of shows their sense of adventure, right? It was like, do whatever it takes to get it done. And this is kind of the theme that we're going to see as we go down this adventure that ultimately leads to their disappearance. But I think all along the way we're seeing the types of personalities that are really exciting. We haven't even gotten to the exciting part of the story. And I can feel the life coursing through both of their veins like nothing was going to keep them back in life. So let's dive into the timeline. October of 1928. They have just been married nary as six months. The harvest was finished in October and Glen and Bessie bought train tickets to Green River, Utah, where they planned to launch their boat. Now, at this point, there had only been two other expeditions on the Colorado River. One completed in June 1927 by a World War I veteran, Clyde Eddy, and another completed in the fall of that same year. By the Path Brae Film company, who were filming to make a feature film on river running. The Hydes would be only the third group to run the Colorado river, and Bessie would be the first woman to do so. So they were going for the record books across the board.
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B
One thing I'll note is Glenn, he had some experience doing this. Like I said, he had done some of these Idaho rivers. Bessie did not. This was going to be her first time on a river, first time through the rapids, and she was. She was in for it because the Colorado is not for the faint of heart.
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A
That's exactly right. So when they arrived in Green River, Glenn went down to the waterfront and he does what anyone does. When they get to the river ready to raft for the record books, he starts building their boat. That's pretty awesome, actually. He goes down there and starts building it. Now. Two local men, Harry T. Howland and Bill Reeder, who did have experience boating in the area, saw Glenn and they approached him because they were concerned about the structure of his boat. Even though Glenn was experienced in riding rapids down rivers, boat building is kind of a whole nother thing. In fact, there are, like, professions dedicated to building boats. But these men, they've grown up next to the river. They know the river. They know something about structures of boats. They tell Glenn, hey, this thing that you're building, it's kind of looking like a floating coffin. Now, years later, Reeder would recall the conversation with Hyde. He'd asked Hyde if he was going to cover the boat, to which Hyde said no. He asked if he was bringing life preservers or a water bag, and Hyde said that they wouldn't need them. In just two days time, Glen finished building the scow, and it cost $50 to build, and they named it rain in the face.
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B
$50 back then was a lot of money. So it's really several hundred dollars, almost a thousand dollars that they're spending on this boat, but it's a lot cheaper than buying one in this scow. This wooden scow that they are building, basically, it looks like, if you can imagine, this really big wooden box. And that's what it looks like, this really big wooden box. They use them for transporting cargo in Idaho. So you could put a ton of cargo on this thing. It weighed around 2 tons. This is a massive boat, not great for Idaho. This is what they used on the rivers. They dominated the rivers up in Idaho. But the problem with the Colorado river is it required a little bit more nimbleness than this would provide. This was not the kind of boat that you could maneuver easily. In fact, you don't row this boat. It obviously didn't have any kind of propulsion system. You guide it into the current, and the current carries you, and that's how you do it. And you had these massive. They called them sweeps. They were these huge oars that weighed a couple hundred pounds, one off the front, one off the back. And you had two people, though. One person could do. One strong man could do this, but you usually had two people. And the person on the back is essentially just trying to keep the boat pointed in a straight line with this back sweep. And then the forward sweeper is trying to read the current and guide the boat into the current so they can ride the current down the river past any rapids or around any rapids or through them if you have to. And that's what they would do. So no one had ever. I mean, only two groups of people had ever made it down the Colorado river, but certainly no one had ever done it in this. This was a boat they used in Idaho, not a boat that they typically used on the Colorado River. So these guys, he knew what they were doing. They were like, I don't know about this, but Glenn had a lot of experience with it, and it would turn out, was incredibly talented with this boat, as we're going to see now, because it was so huge, they had tons of food. They brought a mattress with them that they could sleep on. They had all kinds of camping equipment, firearms. They could build a fire. They had sand and kerosene, which I didn't know you could do this. But basically, they would pour sand in the middle of the boat, douse it in kerosene, and light it on fire. And that would be their cooking fire. Right. But apparently, because it's on the sand, it doesn't burn. The boat tip for you if you ever want to try and do that. So just a really cool thing. Rain in the Face, by the way, was the name of a Sioux chieftain who, according to legend, and probably accurately, was the person who killed Custer at the Battle of Little Bighorn. So that's who they named the boat after. Okay, so this brings us to October 20, 1928. At 4pm on that day, Glenn and Betsy got in their boat and began their voyage. There were a few people on the shore who sort of saw them off in their floating coffin. And the trip was 120 miles down the Green river to the confluence of the Colorado, then another 64 miles up the Colorado river until they arrived in Moab. This is sort of the beginning of their trip. And the trip started off relatively easy. This was smooth. There was some swift water in the first few miles, but it actually was a really good introduction for Bessie. And it was pretty smooth for the first week. And I think Bessie only fell off one time. So she fell off one time in one of the first rapids and Glenn was able to get her back in. One thing, I don't know why this is, at the time, people who rafted the Colorado wore life vests who plied the rivers in Idaho, didn't you just didn't wear life vest if you were in Idaho. So they didn't wear life vests when they came down here. So they're not going to be wearing life vests. If you fall in the water, you got to swim or you got to get pulled out. Those are your options. So as they're going down, it's kind of nice. You know, they're hunting, Glenn shooting a duck, they're making nice dinners, They've got their sand fire, you know, they got some potatoes from home. Everything's kind of awesome. They got their bed springs they can sleep on under the stars. Really a kind of cool experience as the water is calm and they don't have a lot to worry about.
- [22:41]
A
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- [24:45]
A
Water rafting because the water stays calm. It's called white water rafting because the rapids get so intense that the water turns white. Right. So the water is not going to stay calm for much longer. So shortly before 12pm on October 27, 1928, they reach the confluence of the Green and Colorado River. If you've ever seen this happen, when two rivers come together, the rapids hit each other and it becomes very violent. So the water level doubled from 3,500 cfs to 7,000 cfs, which propelled them through the Cataract canyon. And if you've ever seen a boat go through this or been on a whitewater rafting, I mean, it is terrifying. We've talked about Alaska, the wilderness, being something like you are a visitor in the wilderness, similar to the Colorado river. You are, but merely a visitor of this, like, immense power that you cannot control yourself. So the current quickened for the next four miles and there was a sharp bend that they would have to navigate through. Now, this canyon was known as the graveyard of the Colorado. Due to the sheer danger. Bessie was not initially prepared for the rapids and she quickly fell out of the boat and. But Glen pulled her back on board, which I think is actually pretty impressive because if you've seen these, it's easy to get sucked under the rapids. Their boat is a tank. It's tons, right? You can't really kind of navigate it to get people. So he's reaching down, grabbing her back into the boat. Now, the Hyde spent the next several days running the difficult rapids, stopping to camp and making necessary repairs to their boat because these rapids quite literally beat up the boat. Ultimately, on October 30th, they made it through the Cataract canyon. And they spent the next couple days camping, waiting out a nasty storm that had just rolled in.
- [26:32]
B
There's a couple things. Number one cfs cubic feet per second. That's a lot of water. And it basically doubled the other thing about this, everyone that found out that they did this was astonished by it, because no one thought this kind of boat could even get through this rapid. And they called it the graveyard of the Colorado for a reason. Now, one thing that's negative about this, once they made it through, if Glenn had any doubts that they could do this, they were gone. Because in his mind, this was the ultimate challenge. You make it through Cataract Canyon. I mean, they call it Cataract Canyon. It's like, you make it through that. Yeah, there's going to be some difficult rapids as you go, but if we can beat this, we can beat anything. That was his position. And they would run into people along the way who would say, you're not through the worst of it. But they just never believed that. They thought, no, we can do this. You know, we talked about those sweeps before, a couple hundred pounds and things about them. I mean, they were called sweeps. They could rotate 360 degrees. A lot of times what would happen is you would hit these rapids, and if you couldn't control them, they would swing, and they're liable to knock you off the boat. When that happened, if one of them got loose, then basically all you could do was dive to the ground. They call it the dance floor, which is the floor you stood on. To try and control this, you just had to dive to the floor. The sweeps are, like, going over your head, and you just got to ride it out. Bessie only weighed 90 pounds, so the sweeps weighed twice as much as she did. Now they're balanced so that you can control them a little bit more easily than you would think. But nevertheless, once they got loose, there was nothing you could do until they stopped.
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A
Does not sound like fun. This sounds. I'm, like, getting nauseous just thinking about that. The dance floor.
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B
And look, this is a long trip. This is not a couple days or a week. I mean, they're on the water for a long time, and then they're either sleeping on the boat or they're pulling off into a place where they can make camp. A couple things about this. The people who had done this before did not go through all the rapids because they were on boats that you could carry. So what they would do when they came to, like, a really bad rapid, is they would portage is what it's called. They would pull over to the shore, and they would carry the boat past the really bad rapid and then get back in the water and keep going. They could not do that because their boat weighs two tons. So you just can't do that. That's not an option. So they're having to go through every single one of these rapids. And I think they were the first people who ever actually made it through Cataract Canyon in total without doing any portaging. So they're already accomplishing things. They're going for this first woman to ever do this, which isn't that hard because there's only been like five guys who've ever done it. But she's gonna be the first woman. They're also going for the speed record. They want to do this faster than anybody's ever done it. And actually going through the rapids is much faster than carrying it. So they have a really good feeling they're going to be able to break that record. But they do have this storm and they're stuck for a couple days. But they are able to launch again on November 1. Now, the river had risen due to the storm. And this did increase the speed as they entered what was called narrow canyon. Now, one thing that is a little counterintuitive, when the water rises and the speed goes up to some extent, that's actually beneficial. The most dangerous the river can be is when it's low. And it was lower at the time than it typically was. And the reason for that is the lower it is, the more rocks are close to the surface. Some of them even poking out of the water. And rocks near the surface are what create the worst rapids. So, you know, high water, there'll be rocks that don't cause rapids at all because the water's so high over them. It's just like going over the bottom of the river. But if the water's a little bit lower, they're creating more rapids. So there's sort of a trade off. You're going faster than that, can be a little bit more dangerous, but you're also higher. So at one point, they would pull ashore and inscribe Hyde 11, 1 28. Next to where the Eddy party had written their name after completing the trip the year prior. There are photographs of this, but I'm pretty sure this is now underwater. But nevertheless, this is something they did to sort of leave their mark on the Grand Canyon.
- [31:10]
A
So like we said, this trip is a long one. On November 7, 1928, the Hydes made it to the Grand Canyon two days ahead of schedule. And if they're going for the speed record so far, it's going great for them. They stopped at an outpost called Lee's Ferry, where Glen sent a letter home to his father, letting him know that they had arrived. Now, the men running the outpost tried to warn the Hydes from going any further. They said their boat just wasn't cut out for these types of waters. But as Brett already mentioned, Glenn is feeling great about himself and he's ahead of schedule. They made it through the Cataract canyon. They have made it to where the previous group had made it, right through the narrow canyon. Luck is on their side. The hardest part is behind them. They had a boat that worked. He had boated in this kind of a structure his entire childhood. He knew how to do this. So they stayed the night at the outpost, and they spent the day exploring the area, even meeting with a reporter from the Flagstaff weekly paper who wrote an article about their trip so far, although that particular article was filled with inaccuracies. Now, in 1923, a geological survey was completed to lay out the river mileage. Lee's ferry was considered mile zero.
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B
It's kind of funny because they've made it so far, but they've only made it to mile zero. Right. This newspaper report was actually important because, you know, Glenn and Betsy, they loved raising potatoes. It was really their passion in life. So it made them get up in the morning, you know, just drove them potatoes. Right. But they also, not Unlike many a YouTuber and podcaster today, sort of had dreams of doing something else. Bessie was very artistic. Glenn was known to be a really good writer. They were both very attractive. And this was a time when one of the big entertainments was vaudeville. And one thing you would do in vaudeville, you know, you had all sorts of shows that were part of that. But one thing were people who just traveled around telling their stories. So people who had lived adventures would travel from town to town and people would come. You know, you're somebody, for instance, living in Idaho on a potato farm, who never leaves it, who never did any of the stuff Glenn did in your life is that potato farm and maybe going to church, that's your life. And you get to go and sit and listen to somebody who's done this great adventure tell their story. And this was something that Glenn and Bessie were interested in. If they could do this and if they could generate some publicity, maybe they could get into vaudeville. Remember when Bessie met Glenn, she was on her way to Hollywood. I mean, that was her plan from the beginning, you know, so this was a way to really channel their talents into a money making venture. So this is good that they're starting to get a little, little bit of press and they're going to get more as they travel along. Okay, so on November 8, 1928. So this is the next day, and they get back in their boat and they continue on their journey. They're not concerned and they're certainly not listening to people who tell them they can't do it. They first had to make it through Marble Canyon, which is known as the 60 mile introduction to the Grand Canyon. And it's just funny, tells you how.
- [34:26]
A
Big the Grand Canyon is. It's grand Miles is just an introduction.
- [34:31]
B
And once again, they've done so much and yet they're just getting started in this whole project. It's hard to imagine doing this. And once again, this should give you an idea of how big their boat is, because all of their supplies for what is turning into weeks and weeks and weeks of this adventure on this boat, like they're really kind of going down the Colorado in a merchant boat.
- [34:55]
A
I was gonna say, like.
- [34:57]
B
Like a truck barge. Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's like if you wanted to drive your truck at Talladega or something, it's sort of a similar thing. They're taking this boat down this very difficult river that really was made for transporting goods, not for all of this, but they're going to do it anyway. So they start at Badger Creek, which is a particularly rough rapid, but they make it through. And in fact, at first it was as if fate was on their side because people are telling them, man, when you get to Badger Creek, you get to that rapid that's gonna be rough, you know, and. And they would just go straight through it, no problem. And that's building their confidence. And what they're doing is they're actually, you know, they'll stop before all these rapids and they go out and they scout them. And so they would go ahead and they would sort of look at the rapids and how they're working and they would plan how they're going to take this scowl through this. And it's really remarkable because, like I said, very little maneuverability with this thing. So your plan has to be really good and you have to execute it really well. And it's a testament to how good they were at managing this massive thing that they're going through these rapids with a far little difficulty than they should have seen.
- [36:10]
A
And also, even if they had the right boat, people would be telling them to turn around. There's a reason that they're only the third group to try and navigate this. Right? There's a reason why no, you know, four, five total people have ever navigated this. And Most of them have taken, like, the shortcut, you know, in terms of holding their boat through the toughest parts. And so I think in their minds, could they ever actually have said no? If they had been able to complete this, of course, it would be one of the greatest feats in history. And they didn't set out to, like, do a great feat halfway. So even from the start, I don't know. You know, when you're young, you think that nothing's ever going to touch you. You'll be fine forever. But this was the entire expedition. They were expecting the naysayers. Of course, if it were easy, they wouldn't do it. The very reason they're doing it is because it's hard.
- [36:57]
B
And just for those of you who don't know this story, give you a little foreshadowing. So Alice has put her finger on something which is this notion. It's almost like the sunk cost, right? Like, we've done this, we've built the boat, we've had so much success, we can't stop. And there's going to become a point where there is a question whether both of them still feel that way and whether there is some growing friction between the two of them. Because, you know, you're hearing the story, and even if you don't know it, you probably are already predicting what's going to happen, right? And it's probably something very mundane. And this is a really interesting story for what they did, but what happened to them is probably not that interesting. Well, there are things that happen throughout this that make you wonder if something unusual ended up happening on this river. Nevertheless, that's for the future. So they start out at Badger Creek. It's a rough rapid they make it through. Then they're going through Soap Creek and the North Canyon Rapid, which are also supposed to be difficult, but they just slide right through. And North Canyon Rapid is actually mile 20. So they have made significant progress since leaving Lee's Ferry a couple days before. Remember, they have no propulsion. They are traveling at the speed of the river, and they are making it without any trouble. And they are not only traveling, they're documenting this because, remember, that's part of it. So Bessie has a journal that she's keeping, and they have brought a camera with them. And they take photos of themselves at the 24 and a half mile marker and the 27 mile marker. By November 11, 1928, the hides have made it to Grand Canyon National Park. So let's see, they left out on this trip on October 20th. On October 20th they started their trip. It is November 11th, several weeks later, three weeks later, and they're just now making it to the Grand Canyon.
- [39:04]
A
So once they made it to the Grand Canyon proper, Glen and Bessie wrote a letter to Glenn's sister Jean. They described that the trip had itself snags and that their water was quicker and more difficult in areas than what Glenn was used to. But overall it had been easier than they expected. They thought they were through the worst of it and the rest of the trip would go rather smoothly. This is something they thought really at the beginning of the trip as well. And in a lot of senses you can see why. They may have been right in some senses, but unfortunately they were wrong. They made it through Hants Rapid, but it was an incredible struggle. Then Glenn fell out of the boat at Saukdallager Rapid. And we talked about Bessie earlier, she's only £90. So while Glenn could reach over the boat and pull 90 pound Bessie back into the boat, it's a very different thing when Glen is the one overboard. But Glenn was able to climb back into the tank of a boat that he had built. So they made their way through Grapevine Rapid relatively unscathed. Finally, they arrived at Bright Angel Creek where they could begin the 5,000 foot climb to Grand Canyon Village.
- [40:14]
B
Yeah, so they're taking a break from the river. They're gonna take a significant hike up the Grand Canyon and spend some time in Grand Canyon Village. I want to talk about Sauk Dallagher Rapid for a second because what happens here is exactly what we talked about. Glen loses the sweep. And I don't know what Sock Dollager means, but it makes me think of getting like whacked in the face. Getting. You got sock Dolliger, you know. Well, he got Sock Dollagher. The sweep spun around, whacked him in the face, hit him right in the chin, knocked him out of the boat. And he came really close to dying here because he was almost knocked out. Basically hitting the water woke him back up because he got hit so hard. He was going to be knocked out, but. But then he hits the water. So he hits the water, he wakes up, she can't help him. Like Alice said, she's trying to control her sweep because if she loses the sweep in the middle of this terrible rapid, what's going to happen? The boat's going to get spun around and it's going to get slammed into a wall or slammed into a rock and could sink the boat could shatter one of these massive pieces of wood. They're using to drive this thing, so she can't help. And basically, he is able, because the boat, frankly, is sort of caught, to spin so it doesn't float away from him. He's able to sort of get back into the boat, get control over that sweep, and they're able to make it through. But this, by far was the most difficult thing they had faced. And you might think after something like that, surely they're going to get some life jackets or something. I mean, not saying they should stop, but maybe take a few more precautions than they have taken. But they're not going to do that, even though people are going to repeatedly offer to help them make this trip safer. So on November 14, 1928, they climbed this 5,000ft to the top of the rim, and they're in the middle of nowhere. That's the one problem. Bright Angel Camp is a ways away. There's a nice sort of resort that incredibly wealthy people would stay at. They're not gonna be staying there, but they're able to catch a ride and hitchhike to Bright Angel Camp, which has some tents, basically, that are rented out to sort of various adventure seekers who could stay there. And this was this time period, by the way, really was the birth of American tourism in the way that we think of it now. So people doing this kind of adventuring, people spending money to go to beautiful places to challenging places to do this kind of stuff. There's a reason that they are the third group to go down the Colorado river, and that people are doing that now because this is after the war. So you had World War I, which is terrible and horrible and just shattered everyone. And after that, stopped caring so much about the sort of practical things. Not that, you know, they were a lot more practical than we are now. But life wasn't just about working really hard, having a lot of children, and then dying. Right after World War I, there were just a lot of people who, after the horror of the war, said, we need to take a step back. And things like this, particularly in the twenties, wealth is starting to build. You have this sort of roaring twenties flapper culture, all this stuff. People are starting to say there's more to life than growing potatoes. And they're starting to do things like this. So you're starting to see things like this little tent, cabin, hotel thing popping up for people who are exploring the Grand Canyon. Nothing like we have now. Probably a lot more. Awesome. I mean, go to the Grand Canyon now, It's you and 10 million people. But back then, it was like, you and 20 people. So I can't imagine what it was like. Okay, so that's on November 14th. November 15th is a big day for them. They not only are purchasing some groceries and sort of replenishing their supplies, they're not going to carry the groceries, by the way. They hire a mule to bring them down to their boat. But they also talk to a reporter for the Denver Post, which is a major newspaper and a newspaper that is connected to the Associated Press. And they're talking to this Denver Post reporter about their trip so far and their plans for the remainder of the journey. And this story kind of goes national at this point. She in particular, Bessie, is the hook. Like, Glenn's cool and all, but the fact that you have this young woman, this five foot, nothing, £90 woman, who is going to go down this river, it was just the whole zeitgeist of the time. The 20s, you know, was a real time of liberation for women. Not like the 60s and 70s, but in a way, I mean, people are getting the vote. The Victorian strictures are falling away. Like I said, you had the whole divorce.
- [45:18]
A
Yeah, divorce, right. Like she was a divorced woman. She was her own woman. Right, exactly. And wouldn't give her a divorce. She, what she do, move to Nevada and get her own divorce. You know, like she's not gonna let some man hold her back and be pregnant and barefoot. Like, this is a woman on adventure.
- [45:32]
B
And so the reporters in the press, they see in her, this is somebody we can really kind of hold up as an example of this. So she's starting to get a lot of attention, and this is really working out for them. And what exactly what they wanted to happen is happening. And at this point, they also meet Emery Kolb, who plays a big role in this story. And he was someone who lived on the Grand Canyon. And in fact, with his brother had ran the rapids of the Colorado river the year prior. So he knew the river really well. But he wasn't just someone who knew the river. He also was a famed photographer. His house at Grand Canyon is now a museum. He's a big deal. And he meets them. They were really interested in meeting him because once again, he's the kind of person who can bring a lot of attention to their journey. So he meets them, and the Hydes ask him to take some photographs down by their boat, which he agrees to do. They say, hey, develop the film, because it's not like today can develop instantly. We're done with our trip, we will come back, we will pay you for the photos. And that evening, Glenn and Bessie wrote letters to their families. According to them, the worst was over and they were looking forward to the second half of their trip. Now, Emory Kolb, who knew what he was talking about, was like, I don't know guys. I feel like the worst is actually ahead. You think it's over? It's not. And he attempts once again to sort of convince them, like, take some life jackets, maybe reconsider this whole thing. But they don't listen.
- [47:21]
A
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- [47:44]
B
Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Guys, if you're like me, you probably turn to some funny places for support. Maybe it's your local bartender, maybe it's your hairdresser or your barber. Maybe it's just the guy you sit next to on the bus. But I gotta tell you, not all of those people are therapists and they might not give you the best advice. Well, that is where BetterHelp comes in. You can find your right match with BetterHelp. Look, we all are going to need some support at times. We all are going to need to talk to somebody. Life can be tough. Times can get difficult. BetterHelp gives you the opportunity to connect with a therapist and who can help you. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their 10 years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time for more tailored recs.
- [48:59]
A
BetterHelp is so flexible because it's fully online. You can pause your subscription whenever you need to and switch therapists and anytime at no extra cost. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com prosecutors that's betterhelp.com prosecutors so Glenn and Bessie returned down to the river on November 16, 1928, to visit a tourist facility half a mile up Bright Angel Creek. While they're there, they met a wealthy man named Adolph Gilbert Sutro. Now, Sutro was an adventurer. He'd learned to fly with the Wright brothers, and he'd been rescued from several plane crashes, including one in the San Francisco Bay. Altogether. Not a guy who was easily spooked. I've never been in even one plane crash. But he has survived quite a few of them. And remember back in the 1920s, if he's learning to fly with the Wright brothers, those who, you know, Wright brothers, like, invented flying by a structure. This is not something that was safe, nor that everyone did. He was quite literally putting his life in the hands of adventurers. So he knew what adventure was. He was not easily scared. Now, the next day, on November 17, 1928, Sutro traveled with Glenn and Bessie through seven miles of brutal rapids. They camped on a beach overnight, but Sutro didn't stay with them for long. He didn't think that their boat was safe, and he had some issues with Glenn's practices. Sutro would later describe his time with the Hydes as the most terrifying experience of his life. More terrifying than falling out of the sky in handmade planes?
- [51:03]
B
Yeah. And Sutro, he was someone who was very wealthy. He could fund some of these adventures. And he would later be asked about why he didn't continue down the river with them. And he said that it's better to be an alive coward than a dead hero. And like, he was. He was just.
- [51:25]
A
I don't think the Hydes thought that.
- [51:27]
B
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. They did, but it's just. It's remarkable that of all people, this guy who's done some crazy stuff, like he had San Francisco's pilot's license number one, he was the first person in San Francisco who had a pilot's license. He's done some crazy stuff. He's taken a lot of risks. But his experience with the HIDES was enough to make him question things. And what I want you to do, if you're listening out there, we talked about these photographs that have been taken. So for those of you who are watching us, record this, this is the photograph that was taken by Emory Kolb of this young couple as they're adventuring down the Grand Canyon. While he's with them. And if you're listening, when you get a chance, I want you to look this photo up, up. Because what you'll see are these two people who seem like they are just at the height of life. They're smiling, they're happy. They look great. They look like they're gonna conquer the rest of this river. And the thing is, when this picture is taken, they essentially believe the worst is behind them. They're gonna make it right. They've done the worst part of it. After this picture is taken, they meet Sutro. They travel with him, and the seven miles there with him are some of the worst they have experienced. At one point, the boat gets caught in an eddy, which is like essentially a whirlpool, and just spinning around, they can't get it out. It takes them hours to get out of the eddy, back into the rapids. It's exhausting. It's terrifying, backbreaking work. And so, before Sutro leaves them, he takes a photograph of the couple. I'm gonna put that on the screen for those who are watching now. But once again, google Glenn and Bessie Hyde. Look for the smiling, happy picture. And then you'll probably see the picture taken of them by Sutro only a few days later. They're essentially wearing the same clothes, wearing this sort of leather jacket, that kind of thing. They look absolutely miserable. Just in these few days of traveling down the river, their entire Persona has changed. They went from happy adventurers to people who look like they are absolutely exhausted and defeated. In this photograph, as I said, was taken by Sutro. And on November 18, the Hydes dropped Sutro off at Hermit camp, where they stopped for lunch before continuing to Hermit Rapid. They got in their boat, and they head towards the rapid, and Sutro watches them go around a corner of the canyon and vanish. And Bessie and Glenn Hyde would never be seen again after this point. Well, Alice, you said that this would take more than one episode, and I mocked you in your lack of faith.
- [54:43]
A
But I've been doing this with you long enough to know that I learned a lot about the 1920s and about river rapids and about sweeps and eddies. So I don't think it was time lost. I just knew there was no way we would finish this in one episode.
- [54:58]
B
Well, so at this point, Glenn and Bessie have vanished, and what's going to follow is a massive search for them. We're going to talk about that next time. We're also going to talk about the unusual, strange things that happened. The sightings, the claims, discoveries. Things that make you wonder whether or not a simple accident happened on the river. Or maybe this is a True crime case after all. We're going to talk about bodies found in places bodies shouldn't be found. We're going to talk about bullet holes in skulls. So we're going to talk about a lot of things that are going to make you wonder about what exactly happened to Glenn and Bessie Hyde on that river.
- [55:43]
A
Let's just say what's to follow. I know a lot of you in the chat have been saying there's no dead bodies yet. What's happening? This is no true crime story. What's about to happen is an adventure, if there ever were one. And you needed all of the back history to understand just what an adventure this is. Because we're transporting you back a hundred years. But it's just as mysterious now as it was 100 years ago.
- [56:06]
B
This is the kind of story that gets told on every Grand Canyon rapid trip. You know, I give you one little spoiler alert. One of those trips, there's a woman who would have been the age that Bessie Hyde would have been when that trip happened, an elderly woman in her late 60s. And as the guide finished the story, she said, I know this story. I'm Bessie Hyde. So we'll leave you with that before we get to the rest of the story next week. Okay? Alice, you want to answer a question?
- [56:44]
A
Absolutely.
- [56:45]
B
All right, let's do it. You know, it's kind of fun doing a non West Memphis three story. It's been so long. It's like it was like the West Memphis three podcast for a long time.
- [56:54]
A
It may not seem like it to you guys, but we've been recording like crazy people for the last at least four or five months, the entire life of your baby. We've been recording crazy because of how intense West Memphis 3 was, even though it just seems like there's just regular episodes coming out. So this is kind of a nice vacation, shall we say, getting to do a regular case that doesn't have decades of misinformation attached to it. And those of you misinformation too.
- [57:21]
B
Those of you listening to this podcast may have noticed that the podcast is still going. So that was a concern for some people when we started West Memphis three. But here we are. Just can't, can't quit it.
- [57:32]
A
Sorry to disappoint those others of you who are counting down the days.
- [57:36]
B
Okay, this is From Gape aches 25. Let me know. Have you ever been pressured to prosecute somebody you didn't have 100% belief they were guilty? If so, what did you do and how did you stand up for what you thought was right.
- [57:51]
A
I've never been forced to prosecute someone I did not think we had beyond a reasonable doubt to prosecute. And I have dismissed cases I had made the case for it because, you know, once you open cases, you, you may not necessarily choose not to prosecute a case because you think the person didn't do it. But sometimes I know the person did it. But I'm like, this evidence is messy. It's not beyond a reasonable doubt. And the judicial system exists for a reason. I've said this before, the truth of what happened versus what happens in like the judicial system. They, you want them to cross, but they don't always. There are guilty people we don't prosecute because the evidence is not there. I've had pushback from my superiors, which is appropriate. They want to make sure I'm not just like willy nilly choosing not to prosecute cases when there's a real violation of the rule of law, but every single time. And I feel very lucky that in my entire career, I've never had to make a case where I thought someone should not be prosecuted and be overridden. And truly, if I were being told to prosecute someone, I thought not only the evidence wasn't there, but didn't do it. I would have to. I mean, my own conscience and like the ethics rules that I've taken a vow to take would be to step down rather than to prosecute the case. But I've never had to face that situation. And part of the reason is there is a lot of process involved. Right? The prosecutor as, as much as you hear out there, the prosecutor has all the power. Prosecutor, singular, doesn't have all the power. There is a big process that goes on with lots of oversight as well. So that's been my experience. I've never had to do that. In particular, private practice is a little bit different. You sometimes have to take stances that you're like, huh? Is that what we're doing? And you try to guide your client in the best way possible. But there's a reason that's different than say, prosecution, where you are tasked with potentially taking away someone's constitutional rights.
- [59:35]
B
What I've seen a lot more than that. Other prosecutors in the process questioning whether or not there's enough to go forward, and the prosecutor who has the case having to prosecute it. That happens so much.
- [59:49]
A
That's a good point, actually. That's a good point.
- [59:51]
B
Yeah. And you see that all the time. And I just, I mean, I feel like the Reality of prosecution is so different than what people think it is. I think honestly there's so much inertia against prosecuting a case in a lot of ways, because the prosecutions are hard and they're expensive and they're time consuming and everything else. And if it's not there, do we really have to do this? Is this really worth it? Is, is the juice worth the squeeze? You hear a lot, you know, I mean, because frankly the position on a lot of these cases is this won't be the last crime they commit. So if we don't have it this time, we'll get them next time. Right? I mean that, that happens all the time. So I think people have this notion of there's just this immense pressure to bring these prosecutions that aren't valid. Now look, one problem, and we've talked about this before with true crime, is we always focus on the most famous cases and the dynamic. And this is why you can't judge the justice system or anything else, prosecutors, whatever, based on the cases that we tend to cover. Because the cases we tend to cover are extraordinary. So you see extraordinary things in them. Right. Like in every famous true crime case, there's a Brady claim and there's a coerced confession claim and there's a withheld evidence claim or a Batson challenge claim. Every single one of them. Right. And you think, man, every case, these prosecutors are just hiding evidence. Right. And the reality is, even to the extent that happens in the famous cases, it's just that is not indicative of what you see. So I'm not going to say if you have a really famous case with a lot of attention on it, that there's not more pressure. Of course there is. There was pressure to solve the Idaho case, there was pressure to solve the West Memphis three case, to solve the Delphi case. There's a ton of pressure. And that can lead, I think, to short sightedness and tunnel vision. Absolutely. And you have to be careful when you have those kind of cases, but those are relatively rare. And certainly, you know, we, I don't know that we've ever had that kind of case. I mean, I think you just have to sort of stick to. You have to treat every case the same, whether it's famous or not. I mean, that would be in my advice to people out there. Because usually, you know, like the guy in Idaho, the Moscow prosecutor, he went his whole life and didn't have a case like that. He was getting ready to retire and then all of a sudden he's got a Quadruple homicide, brutal murder that just falls into his lap. He doesn't know how to handle that. You know, it's not like. Like in the Robert Wan case. We talked to the prosecutor in that case, and that guy had prosecuted crazy murders his whole career, which made it.
- [62:32]
A
Even the jurisdiction about living in D.C. exactly.
- [62:37]
B
So he had a lot of experience with that, which made it even more bizarre that he was even with all his experience, was, you know, blown away by it. But the Delphi case, your prosecutor in Delphi, Indiana, you're never expecting you're gonna have that on your hands, and so you're having to deal with it. And so I do think you can see mistakes happen. And we talked about this in West Memphis, a jurisdiction that never had handled anything like that and never would again and clearly made some mistakes because of it. And so you're going to see that. But short answer. That's the long answer. Short answer, no. All right. Well, I hope you enjoyed this. I love these kind of cases. So as you can tell, I get a little distracted by the history of the whole thing, but I hope you've enjoyed this. We're going to do another episode on this and wrap this one up. Let us know what you think. Shoot us an email. Prosecutors pod gmail.com prosecutors pod. For all your social media, go to prosecutors podcast.com, our website, which is a little under reconstruction. We'll see how that ends up, but eventually we'll have some photographs of Glenn and Bessie Hyde. If you want to see those pictures. You haven't seen it before. We'll throw this up there. Go to the gallery, which is the best place to discuss these cases, and engage with us on social media that's on Facebook. If you want to watch us record these, join Patreon for as little as $3 a month. Or if you would rather not see our faces, and I can appreciate that, then you still can join Patreon and get these episodes early and ad free, also for as little as $3. All right, Alice, so do you have anything else to say before we sign off?
- [64:13]
A
Come on back. It's not going to be 24 episodes. We are going to wrap it up in the next episode.
- [64:18]
B
Sure are. We sure are. And it's going to be a wild one. All right, well, we're looking forward to that, and we will see you then. But until next time, I'm Brett.
- [64:28]
A
And I'm Alice.
- [64:29]
B
And we are the prosecutor. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Awesome. Hello, everyone. Hello to those of you in the elite Patreon who listened to the closing arguments in the West Memphis three last night. I hope you enjoyed it. Alice. I was surprised that you went with Israel Keys, but hey.
- [65:17]
A
Well, it was Israel Keys with Chloe the German Shepherd. You see, it was Chloe. Of course, I'm not delusional. Chloe's predecessor. But Sam, it was really interesting to find out that her name also was Chloe.
- [66:29]
B
I know you know a long history of death and destruction in that family.
- [66:36]
A
I mean, they say that generational destruction is real until rooted out from the very depths of its core. And when you don't root it out, that's what happens. Chaos and mayhem follow. Sam.
- [67:30]
C
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