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- [00:00]
Brett
Most people would rather remove a nest of irate hornets than search for auto and home insurance. That's why the zebra searches for you. Comparing over 100 insurance companies to find savings no one else can Compare. Today@thezebra.com I think I'll wait inside.
- [00:16]
Alice
You can't solve every case for your kids, but with Greenlight, they'll have the instincts and the money skills to stay out of trouble. With a Greenlight debit card and money app, parents can monitor spending and teach financial responsibility. It's an easy way to guide kids as they grow from earning allowance and tracking chores to learning how to save and even invest. Start your risk free greenlight trial today@greenlight.com wondery that's greenlight.com wondery hi, I'm Jesse Perry. And I'm Andy Cassette. Welcome to Love Murder, where we unravel the darkest tales of romance turned deadly. Our episodes are long form, narrative driven and deeply researched. Perfect for the true crime aficionados seen seeking stories beyond the headlines. Like the chilling case of Blanche Taylor Moore, the so called black widow who left a trail of poisoned lovers. Or the shocking murders of Chad Shelton and Dwayne Johnson where family ties masked a sinister plot. Subscribe to Love Murder on Apple podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen.
- [01:29]
Brett
I'm brett.
- [01:30]
Alice
And I'm alice.
- [01:31]
Brett
And we are the prosecutors. Today on the Prosecutors, the worst Christmas ever. Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of the Prosecutors. I'm Brett and I'm joined as always by my Holly Jolly co host, Alice.
- [02:33]
Alice
Hi Brett. This is not gonna be a Holly Jolly episode, but I appreciate your attempt at making this Christmas themed. You know, here's the thing. Crime and murders happen all year round. Halloween, Thanksgiving, unfortunately, at Christmas time too. So I guess if you wanted a thematically Christmas murder, boy, are you in for one today.
- [02:56]
Brett
Usually we do a Christmas episode and it's like all uplifting and happy, but this year we decided, you know what? This is a true crime podcast. We're doing a true crime Christmas episode. So those of you who that's what you wanted, that's what you're gonna get.
- [03:11]
Alice
You're gonna wish for those stupid bloopers after this.
- [03:14]
Brett
This one's awful. It really is.
- [03:16]
Alice
This is like as awful as it gets.
- [03:18]
Brett
Yeah, I'm not. People always get mad when you laugh, but wow, this one's just bad.
- [03:25]
Alice
Which is why I'm not gonna say it now, but that there is. As horrific as this story is, one part of this story makes me maddest.
- [03:32]
Brett
Oh, I can't wait to hear what that is.
- [03:33]
Alice
Yeah, okay.
- [03:34]
Brett
Okay.
- [03:35]
Alice
And it doesn't have to do with the actual crime.
- [03:37]
Brett
Okay.
- [03:37]
Alice
Stick around and find out.
- [03:38]
Brett
Okay, well, here we go then. All right, that's enough Holly Jolly chit chat when want a bunch of grinches to get mad at us. So here we go. All right, guys, this case takes us to Utah. All our friends in Utah probably know this case. Kay Tidwell and Rolf Teed Got married on May 24, 1963 in Salt Lake City, Utah. The couple, who were members of the LDS Church, had three children together. Linnae, Sean and Tricia. The family relocated to Humble, Texas, where no one ever brags, but kept close ties to Utah with their beloved family cabin. Have you ever been to Humble? Okay, Humble.
- [04:22]
Alice
I was just about to. So it's not pronounced Humble, it's pronounced Humble. Humble.
- [04:28]
Brett
Humble. Oh, we don't do the H in Texas.
- [04:31]
Alice
Huh? It's like Houston street in New York. Humble. I think it's probably Humble, but with a Texas accent. Huh. I didn't know it had an H in it growing up.
- [04:41]
Brett
Really? Okay, well, you know, there's a place in Alabama where there's. What? What is it? Is it Utah?
- [04:51]
Alice
Oh, no. Arab. Arab.
- [04:55]
Brett
Well, there's Arab. Yeah.
- [04:57]
Alice
Which is spelled Arab, but it's pronounced Arab. The first time I heard it, I thought they were making fun of the town. But the town is really called Arab.
- [05:06]
Brett
It's really called Arab. I remember when 911 happened and like, the New York Times came down and interviewed a bunch of people from Arab, Alabama.
- [05:19]
Alice
It was like, not good. Not good.
- [05:20]
Brett
Okay, wait, did they really? Yeah. Anyway, back to the story. The Teed's family cabin, which K leveling referred to as Teed's Tranquility, was a respite for the entire family. It was located in a remote area of Oakley, Utah, miles away from the road and surrounded by the sounds of the river and the birds. What a wonderful, tranquil place kind of place. Nothing bad ever happens.
- [05:47]
Alice
It's exactly what you think of when you think of the great West Utah in the mountains. I mean, this is so remote. You can't even drive to the cabin when there's snow. You snowmobile to it. You leave your car, you know, a couple miles away on the road and go up to this just absolutely pastoral getaway. In December of 1990, the teeds were up at this cabin ready to spend a snowy Christmas together with extended family. Kay had outfitted the cabin perfectly to celebrate the holiday. There was a large Christmas tree loaded up with Christmas Gifts. There were stockings hung on the mantel waiting to be filled on Christmas Day. The extraordinary snowfall that year made for the perfect backdrop to a cozy Christmas at the cabin. But just days before Christmas, the cabin would turn from a place of tranquility to, to a place of horror when two members of the family were brutally murdered.
- [06:43]
Brett
So this starts on December 14, 1990 when Von Lester Taylor and Edward Stephen Deli, those bad guys always have three names. Just a fact of life. Two convicted felons who had recently been released from jail left the Orange Street Community Center, a state owned halfway house. 25 year old Taylor had been convicted of aggravated battery and 21 year old deli had been convicted of arson. After the unauthorized leave from the center, the pair spent the next week staying in Taylor's father's cabin in Summit County, Utah. A week later on the 21st, the Teed family went on an overnight trip down to Salt Lake City to finish up their Christmas shopping. That evening while they were gone, Taylor and Deli broke into the Teeds cabin.
- [07:34]
Alice
So the next day at 10am December 22, 1990, Taylor phoned Scott Manley, who was an inmate staying at the Fremont Community center where they previously were. Taylor told Manley that he had been staying in a cabin and that they were waiting for the owners to get back so he could kill them and steal their car. He also told Manley that he had broken into other cabins in the area and stolen their guns. Taylor has a.38 special revolver and Dele had a.44 Magnum revolver. After this call, Manley actually does the right thing. He reported Taylor's plan to the officials at the Fremont Community center. But they did nothing with that information. I guess they were like cool, sounds great. This convicted felon who recently has been released back into the society says that they have this plan that they've already stolen a bunch of guns and they're lying in wait in a cabin for someone to come back so they can kill them and steal their car. Not our problem I guess. Don't know where he is. He's no longer at the Fremont Community Center.
- [08:35]
Brett
Yeah, good for Manly, but I don't know.
- [08:37]
Alice
Good for Manly. Yeah, truly.
- [08:39]
Brett
Hopefully someone had the answer for that, but absolutely.
- [08:42]
Alice
So that was just before 10am they're waiting there. At 3:30pm KT'd her mother Beth Potts and her 20 year old daughter Lynnae Teed arrived back at the cabin. The cabin was located a couple miles away from the nearest road. So the family had to park their car on the road and then they used snowmobiles to get to the cabin. When they arrived at the cabin, having just snowmobiled a couple of miles, Lynnae asked her mom to hurry up and unlock the door because her hands were freezing and she wanted to get inside to run them under some warm water before helping her mother bring everything in. So she runs in, goes to the kitchen, but when she comes in, she this flash of gray dart behind the refrigerator. Instead of being scared, she just assumed it was one of her cousins who must have beat them to the cabin. But quickly she realized just how wrong she was. Taylor emerged from behind the fridge, pointing a gun at Linae. He asked her who else was with her, and Linae told him that her mother and grandmother were there. Kay and Beth at that point entered the cabin, and after a brief exchange, gunfire rang out. And Lynae heard her mother say, I've been shot.
- [09:57]
Brett
Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, if someone asks you who all's with you, you should say a bunch of guys with guns or something, if you can think to do that.
- [10:04]
Alice
But bunch of retired K9s who were released from the force because they were erratic and killed too many people.
- [10:10]
Brett
Attacked too many people. Yeah, but anyway, so K is actually shot three times, twice with the bullets that went through her chest and upper torso and once with birdshot pellets. They cause small wounds around her left arm and neck. Now, I'll just tell you I was curious about this when I read it because they got a.38 Special and a.44. I don't know where the birdshot pellets came from. I don't know if they also have like a shotgun or something. But anyway, so that is what happened. So Beth was also shot. You remember, Beth is. Her grandmother, is Linnae's grandmother. She is also shot three times, twice in her chest and once in the head. And look, these guys you think about, people get shot for all sorts of reasons. I mean, it happens for all sorts of reasons and robberies and that sort of thing. People can be scared, there's a struggle or whatever. I mean, these people shot a mother and a grandmother to kill them. I mean, that was the goal. That was the only goal, to eliminate them. This wasn't out of fear. This wasn't afraid they're gonna get caught. They shot them to kill them, which I think is important and I think actually comes in later with something that irritates me about this case. But we'll talk about that. So Taylor and Dele left Linnae unharmed. Instead, they tied her up and put her in one of the bedrooms. And they told her that she would be coming with them when they left. So while she's tied up, she's able to hear these two men who are talking about what they're gonna do. Taylor says, we need to reload. And later, she heard Taylor telling Dele that he needed help with the bodies and to throw them over the balcony. So as horrific as you can imagine this being, she now knows without any question that her mother and grandmother have been murdered. So she's in the cabin for two hours. I mean, they've committed this murder. And around that time, her 16 year old sister Tricia and her father Rolf arrive at the cabin. And as soon as they get off the snowmobiles, a man in a ski mask wielding a gun jumps out of the garage and demands that they go inside. And when they entered, the man asked Rolf if he had any cash. He pulled out what he had in his pockets and threw it on the ground. Which is always smart, actually, because that puts them in a difficult position if they're reaching down to get the cash. Taylor then told Deli to shoot Rolf, but Dele hesitated. So Taylor shot Rolf twice in the head, leaving him on the floor in the cabin, assuming that he was dead. At this point, Taylor and Dele, they start spreading gasoline around the cabin, they're gonna set it on fire, they're gonna destroy all the evidence. Then these two guys are just completely unrepentant murderers at this point. I mean, very young. I mean, as we said earlier, I think 21 and 25.
- [13:01]
Alice
And by the way, their convictions weren't like. I mean, arson's bad, but it's not like for rape and assault. I think the other conviction, you said battery, but I think it was burglary. So we're not even talking about people who are like, we call them trigger pullers. They're not even known trigger pullers. They have concerning backgrounds, but there's a reason they were at a community center and then released. Right? Arson, not good. But people sometimes have problems setting fires and are not murderers. Burglary tends to be, you know, burglary, obviously that's a very personal crime. And especially when you are met with the person who lives in the home, it can turn into something much more violent. But his particular circumstance has not been that in the past.
- [13:43]
Brett
So at this point, they're gonna burn the cabin down. They have Linnae and Trisha. They're leaving them alive. And I think we can all probably assume what their intent was with these two young girls. But basically, they take them, they put them on the snowmobiles. Remember, there's a. Several snowmobiles have now arrived at the cabin. They put them on the snowmobiles, and then they start driving them away. Their plan is to go to the family's car at the end of the driveway a couple miles down the road, jump inside, and take off with the. The girls.
- [14:20]
Alice
So as they get to the main gate, by the way, this is beyond horrific, right? Linnae and Trisha, they're only 16 and 20. They know exactly what's happened. They assume basically their whole. Their family's dead, right? Mom, grandmother, dad have all been shot in the face. And they, I believe, are actually even asked to help these guys load the snowmobiles with what they're taking, and they have to go along with them. So as they're going down this mountain, they get to the main gate. They. The girls actually spot their Uncle Randy. Remember, this is a family Christmas gathering. Randy is Rolf's half brother. Now, Randy sees the girls, and he starts waving at them. He assumes that the guys that they're with are their boyfriends. He walked up and he actually tries to talk to them and say hi, but the girls pretended like they didn't know him, and they did not acknowledge him as they drove past. Now, this is because they were afraid that these two murderers were going to turn around and go after Randy. They feared for his life. And so Trish told the men that she didn't know who that man was. It must have just been a nice neighbor who lived in the area.
- [15:26]
Brett
Heady. I mean, that's, you know, very smart.
- [15:29]
Alice
Very smart to do so at this point, they're going down the mountain in the snowmobile, and they arrive at the family's Lincoln. And one of the men reloaded his gun and exposed a knife hiding in his jacket. And he looks at Tricia and he says, don't worry. I'm just as good with a knife as I am a gun, obviously threatening them. So as they're pulling out across the street in this car, Randy again spots the car. He thought that was really weird. He tried to wave to his nieces. They didn't acknowledge him. And so now he sees them pulling away, and he waves his hands again and yells for them to stop, because now he suspects that something is very wrong.
- [16:05]
Brett
So this is obviously a horrific story. It's been a horrific story up to this point. Two people have been brutally murdered. These girls have been kidnapped. But this is when the story goes from, like, Christmas horror, like Black Christmas to the greatest Christmas movie of all time, Die Hard. Because at this point, at this moment, like, Randy's like the car, they're getting in the car, they're getting away. Randy's trying to stop him. All of a sudden he hears a roar in the distance. And another snowmobile comes speeding up. And he turns around, he sees the driver. And the driver doesn't have a coat on, doesn't have any gloves on. He's not wearing a helmet. But worse than that, he's bleeding from the head because he's been shot twice. This is Rolf. Rolf has survived being shot. He's gotten out of the cabin, he's jumped on the snowmobile. He's bleeding like crazy. His face is all swollen, he can barely see. But despite all this, he's going full speed down the road on this snowmobile. He pulls up to Randy, he's been shot, his wife's been killed. He tells him all this, and the girl's been kidnapped. And so now Randy realizes what's going on. So he grabs Rolf off the snowmobile and throws him in his own car. And they go flying down the road. And at this point, you got the guys who are trying to get away. Randy and Rolf are going. Apparently Randy and Roth have like a car phone in Randy's car. They're trying to call 91 1, but there's no service because it's 1990. Of course there's no service. But as they're going, they spot the girls in the Lincoln and they're able to pull up behind the car. At some point, they actually get cell phone service and they're able to dial 91 1. But not long after, as they're speeding down the road after this guy, Taylor and Dele notice that a cop is now following them. So the deputy had seen all this going on. He's chasing them down. And so now he's in a high speed chase with Taylor and Dele. And at some point, they try and go down some sort of canyon road or off the side of a canyon into, into sort of the wilderness. And they lose control of the car and he goes rolling down this embankment.
- [18:21]
Alice
So the men jump out of the car because they are not dead, and they confront one of the officers with the handgun. You can imagine they have already shot and tried to kill three times and succeeded at least twice so far. They are not shy to basically get in a shootout. The officer responded by firing two shots at the men, but both of these shots missed. At this point, though, the men surrendered and were arrested. Miraculously the girls were released unharmed. Meanwhile, several police officers had gone back to the teed cabin. And Brad Wild, who is the patrol deputy, described what he saw in this horrific crime scene. He. He said, probably when I got about 10ft from the door, I picked up a faint smell. It was kinda like burnt hair and maybe burnt fabric, like clothes burning. As I entered the garage, there was maybe a 12 to 18 inch puddle of blood that was fresh. As I started up the stairwell, I could see holes in the walls, bullet holes coming from one wall across the stairwell into the other wall. There was blood smear on the wall. It looked like a bloody hand had wiped down the wall. It almost looked like a. And there were two bodies. I checked for a pulse, but I knew in my mind they were deceased. I actually walked into the smoke before I really realized that the top floor of that cabin was on fire. Then our mindset went to protecting the victim's property because we thought the cabin was going to burn down. And then he said on top of the coffee table there was a VCR camera and some tapes.
- [19:57]
Brett
So this is a brutal crime scene. I mean, it's. I know you guys remember the Idaho case, and that was an incredibly bloody scene. And you saw some of this in that scene. The living room carpet was so blood soaked that it actually pooled on the wooden planks underneath and oozed blood outside. And it formed these crimson colored icicles where it had leaked through the cabin floorboards. So just as brutal as you can imagine, the victims had been dragged through the living room and out onto the deck and the killers had hid the bodies there with a blanket. I'm always amazed by people, particularly people in true crime who've done a lot of these cases, have covered a lot of these cases, who will doubt guilt based on the crime not making sense or them not being able to understand why someone would do that. And then you read these cases, like, what were these guys thinking? Like what was the end game where they get away, you know, and are living on an island somewhere? Like, they didn't think this through. And this is a very sort of just reactionary. They're reacting to everything that happens. They're breaking into the cabin, they showed up. So they murdered some people. Oh, there's some girls. Let's grab them. If they'd have gotten away, they probably would have raped them and murdered them and then gone on to the next thing. I mean, they didn't have like some grand plan here like most criminals. And you can see that based on just the way this crime scene was left behind. So they are arraigned on Christmas Eve. Merry Christmas to them. And are both charged with two counts of capital homicide, attempted criminal homicide, aggravated arson, two counts of aggravated kidnapping, and aggravated robbery. And Taylor was also charged with failure to respond to an official signal to stop. So we covered all our bases. I don't know if we got him speeding, improper lane change, not using a blinker. I don't know if we got him for that or not. And then Deli was charged with aggravated assault same day that they were arraigned. And this is kind of amazing because this is only. I mean, this. This happened on the 22nd.
- [22:11]
Alice
Yeah.
- [22:11]
Brett
On the 24th, Rolf is released from the university hospital. He'd been shot twice in the face. And he's not only survived that, but he's actually out of the hospital on December 24th.
- [22:29]
Alice
Guys, the weather is turning so cold and all I want to do is cozy up into a blanket. But now that I've felt Lola blankets, I can never go back to just any blanket. I love this ultimate holiday gift. If you're a blanket person, you're not a blanket person. You are going to be obsessed with the Lola blanket. The design is luxurious. It is absolutely the best blanket you will ever, ever feel. And my entire family agrees. Our entire family can fit into the extra large blanket with plenty of room to spare. But we're all trying to grab for it and all my kids want it, my husband wants it. I want it. Honestly, I just want more Lola blankets in my life. I. Lola is the world's number one blanket. It's crafted with ultra soft luxury vegan faux fur and a signature four way stretch that sets it apart. Lola is now my go to gift because it's personal, it's beautiful, and it's something people actually use every day. I should know because I use it every day.
- [23:31]
Brett
Guys, I love this blanket. I love it so much. I can't even tell you how much I love this blanket. I've got one for myself. I bought one for my mom for Christmas. That should tell you how much I love this blanket because I wanted my mom to have one. Like, they are crazy awesome. It is difficult for me to even put it into words. And I'm someone who talks for a living. If you get it, you're gonna love it. It's the world's number one blanket for a reason. It has 10,000 five star reviews for a reason. The thing is huge. I have a large. It's gigantic. We use it on our bed. It's become like our comforter. The only bad thing about that is I need one for the couch. Now. If you get an extra large, it'll basically cover your whole house. I mean, are awesome. They're incredible and you need to get one. If you're someone who's ever been cold before in your life, you need a Lola blanket and so give the gift of softness this holiday season with Lola Blankets. For a limited time, our listeners are getting a huge 40% off their entire order at Lola blankets.com by using code prosecutors at checkout. Just head to lolablankets.com and use code prosecutors for 40% off. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you.
- [24:52]
Alice
Guys. It is the holidays, which means dressing up for holiday parties but also cozy long travel days, seeing friends from out of town. Now when I get dressed up, people think about the exterior makeup, you know, what dress you're going to wear that day. But for me, it starts on my undergarments. That's why I absolutely love my Honey Love. I basically now exclusively wear Honey Love bras and shapewear. They're so comfortable I can wear them all day long and it gives me the support and the confidence to feel and look great in all of my clothes. After four kids, I can use all the help that I can get and Honey Love provides it, but again with that comfort. So don't spend the season tugging at that uncomfortable bra or shapewear that rolls down because Honey Love moves with you so you can enjoy the moment. And Honey Love is an independ female founded brand. I absolutely love that because you can tell this product is made by women for women. All Honey Love products are intelligently designed by women who actually wear them, including founder Betsy who is highly involved in the development of each product. Honeylove bras are supportive and wire free thanks to bonding technology that lifts without underwire. You deserve a bra that's lightweight and comfortable without sacrificing support.
- [26:13]
Brett
Treat yourself or someone you love to Honey Love this holiday season and right now you can save 20%@honeylove.com prosecutors just use our exclusive link honeylove.com prosecutors to grab your discount. After you order, they'll ask where you heard about Honey Love. So please support our show and let them know we sent you. Celebrate the season feeling confident and comfortable with Honey love.
- [26:39]
Alice
Save over $200 when you book weekly stays with VRBO this winter. If you need to work, why not work from a chalet? If you haven't Seen your college besties since, well, college. You need a week to fully catch up in a snowy cabin. And if you have to stay in a remote place with your in laws, you should save over $200 a week. That's the least we can do. So you might as well start digging out the long johns because saving over $200 on a week long snowcation rental is in the cards book now@verbo.com. The way Rolf acted afterwards, talk about like, I just imagine that's like every father like, you got my girls. I'm jumping like, this is a massive snowfall in Utah. It is freezing. He's bleeding from the face. I think he's so swollen he can't even see where he's going. He's basically going by feel and he's rushing down on the snowmobile. Talk about adrenaline. But also, don't mess with a father's daughter or two daughters. So three days after Christmas, on December 28, Beth Potts and Kay Teed, who were horrifically murdered, they were laid to rest at a joint funeral. Beth is remembered as fun, vivacious, energetic and full of life. Kay is remembered as a devoted mother who would do anything for her children. Here's the like, ironic thing. She was so hospitable, she was loving, and she always opened up her home to anyone who needed it. And this is how she met her end, with someone breaking into her home that she probably would have invited them into had they knocked. And she paid for it with her life there when they decided to take something that wasn't theirs. On May 2, 1991, von Lester Taylor pled guilty. They really should all plead guilty because it was very clear they were found with the girls after a high speed chase. But he pled guilty to two counts of first degree murder in exchange for that plea. The charges of the attempted first degree murder. So for Rolf, the aggravated kidnapping of the girls, aggravated burglary and evading a police officer were dismissed.
- [28:45]
Brett
It's important that that last one, you know, that's the most he really had to bargain.
- [28:49]
Alice
It was funny if they were like, that's the one we want.
- [28:51]
Brett
Yeah, we're not gonna dismiss that.
- [28:53]
Alice
My officer was like, I care about that one.
- [28:55]
Brett
You'll never drive again.
- [28:56]
Alice
I mean, he won't ever drop again. But so the prosecutor said they would still be seeking the death penalty.
- [29:01]
Brett
And this is important because this is a misunderstanding. A lot of people have a pleas which is if you plead guilty, you can't get the death penalty. That is not the case in a lot of times, prosecutors will offer that to get you to plead guilty, as in the co broker case. But that has to be a deal. If you just plead guilty, prosecution can go for anything they want.
- [29:22]
Alice
That's right. So on May 7, 1991, Edward Deli's trial began because unlike Taylor, he did not plead guilty. Now, he and his defense team argued that while he was part of the burglary, he actually didn't do any of the shooting. So he's not guilty of the first degree murder, the attempted murder, all those charges. He was just there and oh my goodness, his crazy partner over here was just going on a killing rampage. But it had nothing to do with.
- [29:49]
Brett
Deli, which is impressive since there were different wounds caused by different kinds of bullets on the people who were shot. So unless, like his friend is like, going at unarmed women with two barrels, you would think that anyone with any modicum of sense would know that he obviously did that. But after more than 13 hours of deliberations and Edward Dele was found guilty of a lesser charge of second degree murder after the jury failed to reach unanimous vote to convict him of aggravated murder because one dumbass held out, refusing to convict him of aggravated murder. So in order to bring a mistrial, the rest of the jurors, the other 11, agreed to convict him of the lesser charge. Fortunately, the maximum punishment for second degree murder was life prison. At the same time, a better jury is over in the other trial and they are recommending the death penalty. After deliberating for four and a half hours, Taylor was allowed to choose to be executed either by lethal injection or firing squad. As it is in Utah. He chose lethal injection, which is real.
- [31:09]
Alice
Real fresh because he killed all of his victims by firing squad. Yeah, I feel like you should die the way that you inflicted on your life.
- [31:17]
Brett
I'd be fine with that. I would be fine with that.
- [31:19]
Alice
Back to, back to that one holdout, by the way, I'm sorry, because we hear from a lot of you guys and we hear like in emails, like, oh, I don't know, I couldn't. Hello, this guy is beyond guilty. That one holdout almost ruined it. I can imagine the other 11 probably were in tears that entire night because they thought justice wasn't done. But they did that because they knew how guilty this very dangerous person was. And if they let him out, he was absolutely going to do more heinous crimes like this. It was probably jury nullification. It would probably was not. I don't know if he did it. It probably was along the lines of like, well, I mean, they were probably splitting hairs.
- [31:59]
Brett
Yeah, they were. It's been reported on. He was like, well, I mean, maybe he didn't shoot anybody. Maybe he was just there. And it's like, we talk about this sometimes. The great thing about jury is there's 12 people there. Have a little humility. 11 other people, you think he was involved. The other 11 are all telling you, you know, maybe you should, like, I don't know, not hold out. I mean, I don't know. Frankly, I Wish the other 11 had said, F you, buddy. You want to. You want a hung jury will have it, and maybe the next jury won't have someone like you on it. But they didn't. And that was probably what felt like the right thing to do at the time.
- [32:35]
Alice
I bet you they just wanted to see some justice. But thankfully, we had a judge who saw this for what it was, because on June 3, 1991, Judge Frank Knowles did sentence to Delhi to that maximum sentence of life, but not just one life, seven consecutive life sentences. And a few months later, the parole board announced that Delhi would serve life without the possibility of parole. Which is awesome. Which is awesome. Which is absolutely the right thing here, because with this type of a crime, these people are not going to be rehabilitated.
- [33:08]
Brett
I still don't think juries should decide the death penalty. I still think judges should decide that. I don't understand why juries do it. It's the way it is. I like judicial override. We've talked about this for. Had that in Florida, for instance, where basically the judge could have said, actually, in a lot of states, the judge would have said, 11 of you voted for death. That's enough. A lot of times if you more than 10, that's enough for death. But then you have judicial override, which is where the judge can say, well, you're an idiot. He's getting the death penalty. But they don't have that in Utah, obviously. So nevertheless, Dele is going to die in prison. He is going to serve a life without parole. And that's a good thing Deli, because.
- [33:44]
Alice
He went to trial, he appeals to the Utah Supreme Court. In March of 1993, like, two years after he was sentenced, his case was dismissed. Appropriately, a couple years later, in May of 1995, Taylor's lengthy appeal process began. Remember, when you. We always say when you get the death penalty, actually, you're afforded so many, like, resources in order and avenues to appeal. And that's what he does. So it begins. And he appealed first to the original Trial court arguing ineffective assistance, legal assistance, and asked for a retrial. But his appeal was rightfully dismissed. Then In October of 1997, the Utah Supreme Court rejected Taylor's appeal as well. A year later, the US Supreme Court also denied Taylor's appeal. So real quick, the court that heard his trial denied. Utah Supreme Court denied his appeal. The U.S. supreme Court denied his appeal.
- [34:42]
Brett
So at that point, because that's not enough. So I don't want to make this whole episode of rant about the death penalty, but we're going to see why we need more reform here. Because we're going to have a bad judge in a second. Because a lot of times you have bad judges. But we have this thing called edpa. We talked about it before, Anti Terrorism, Effective Death Penalty Act. And the whole point was to try and cut down on the amount of time these appeals go on. Taylor, look, there's no question. This is not like a closed case. It's not a case where he had any defense. It's not a case where the police might have framed him or he, you know, he was mistaken for somebody or was a bad eyewitness. I mean, there's literally no defense here for him. He pled guilty.
- [35:30]
Alice
Right.
- [35:31]
Brett
And yet you would think if you pled guilty to the crime and then the jury gave death penalty, this would be a pretty quick process. But here we go, we're rolling along. So he's gone through all these direct appeals. Well, now he has his habeas appeals, which is what AEDPA is supposed to deal with. And so you start filing in the federal courts and you do the whole same thing, actually, you start in the state court, so you go through all the state courts again with your habeas claim, which is usually an ineffective assistance of counsel. And it goes up all the way through the state courts and then it gets to the state supreme court and they reject it. And the thing is, this is in 2007, 2007, district courts, federal district courts are supposed to give great deference, double deference to state courts that deny habeas. That's the way it works under aedba. But unfortunately, the one problem with having lifetime appointed federal judges is a lot of them just aren't very good and they do really dumb things. And in March 12, 2020, 20, 20, 13 years after the appeal, 30 years after the crime, District court Judge Tina Campbell, who we can all hope is retired by now because obviously she doesn't know what she's doing, ruled that Von Lester was not adequately represented in his 1991 trial that led to a death sentence and his conviction was overturned. But thankfully, the district court is not the last word.
- [36:58]
Alice
That part, that is the most infuriating part of this entire case. This is as clear cut as it gets. Two days later, they were. He pled guilty. And after all these courts, including, by the way, the Utah Supreme Court and the United States Supreme Court, dismissed, denied these appeals, this one lone judge is like, you know what, let's overturn the whole apple cart. Thirty years later, having not been there, by the way, but like you said, thankfully, this rogue judge was not the final say. July 30, 2021, the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals restored Taylor's murder conviction and death sentence again, rightfully. But let's just note really quick. The victims were in limbo for a year and several months, thinking that this guy was out there free with no conviction, not thinking he was effectively. Now, the 10 circuit said that they found that even if Taylor did not fire the fatal shots in a 1990 triple shooting and kidnapping case, he can't be considered innocent because Utah law makes accomplices as guilty as perpetrators. We've actually covered this with like felony murder too, where this can be the case. So the law was clear. This isn't like new law. The district court judge just didn't read the law and didn't follow the law. So thankfully, justice was reinstated. And on June 13, 2022, Taylor's final regular appeal was dismissed by the U.S. supreme Court. A year later, May 22, 2023, Taylor wasn't done. He filed his fifth appeal. This time it was to reduce his death sentence. As of 2025, Taylor remains on death row in Salt Lake City and Deli is serving life without parole at Central Utah Correctional Facility in Gunnison.
- [38:47]
Brett
Let me just say we have a lot of people in in Utah who listen to this podcast, some of them here in the Utah AG's office. And you guys need to get on it. You got one who's ready to be executed. We need to get that date. It's time to ask for it. It's time to move forward. Justice delayed is justice denied. This guy needs to get justice. So he is exhausted his Appeals. It's been 35 years. If you're gonna execute anybody, it should be him. If you're not gonna execute him, you might as well get rid of that building. So time to move forward on that, Utah. That's my exhortation here on Christmas is we need a Christmas execution. So one last thing to discuss here, if you didn't think these two guys were scumbags enough. There is one part of this case that is one of the most disturbing and creepiest things that you can do. In addition to murdering two people. Remember we mentioned that the police found some videotapes and a VCR sitting on the table. Well, at some point, someone decided to watch one of those videotapes. And one of the tapes contained a video of Taylor and Deli. I guess they had set up the video camera to record them doing this. Opening the family's Christmas gifts before the murders.
- [40:00]
Alice
And this. These videos are all over. You can watch them yourself. And the glee. It's as if they were just joking around. But we know that just minutes, hours later, they will commit these horrific crimes. And it's almost like the two robbers in Home Alone who are just, like, goofy, and they kind of look like that, except unlike in Home Alone, you know what's about to follow. And it's just horrific. Like, it wasn't enough that they were going to murder them in cold blood, take the daughters to do unspeakable things to them, steal their car, steal their entire Christmas. They did the, like, indignity of opening their Christmas presents as well and joking around with them.
- [40:42]
Brett
I mean, look, guys.
- [40:43]
Alice
But look, that U.S. district Court Judge thought we should, you know, return that conviction because.
- [40:48]
Brett
Unfair.
- [40:49]
Alice
Because it's just unfair.
- [40:50]
Brett
We got one juror who also doesn't know that you're just as guilty if you're with. Even if you think somehow only one of them fired the multiple weapons. Even if you think that. I mean, it's just. I don't know, it always blows my mind. One of the things about covering these cases, a lot of times you run into these incredibly frustrating outcomes. But the good news is that one district judge's idiocy did not prevail. And here's the problem. I mean, we've talked about this before. Probably in this case, we would have been fine, maybe. But the issue with these kind of rulings, and the reason they're incredibly problematic, is it's been 30 years since the trial. People have died. Evidence has spoiled. It's been destroyed, it's been lost, it's been contaminated. Memories have faded. People have forgotten. A lot of times these cases, these murder cases will be overturned on something like this, and the state chooses not to try again. And of course, then it's trumpeted as some sort of, like, exoneration. Oh, they're proven innocent. Why? Proven innocent is just. They won their technicality appeal. 30 years later. It Wasn't on the substance, didn't say they didn't do it. They won that. And now the state can't bring the case again because of the state of the evidence. Probably wouldn't have happened here because it was so obvious that he did it. But nevertheless, it is a problem. It is a concern. Huge problem in our system. Massive issue in our system. Talked about this before. One of the causes is lack of judges. There is no way that in a, particularly in a case like this that you should be having substantive appeals 30 years after the crime. Nothing was discovered. Once again, this is not an actual innocence case. It's not like they found the guy who really did it or they discovered some DNA. None of that is happening here. And yet 30 years later, this judge decides, I'm going to vacate that conviction. That's absurd. The law should not allow that. It should be. My personal opinion on this is that at some point appeals should be limited to actual innocence claims, and that's it. No ineffective assistance counsel. Like you'll bring that early on. It's fine. But it has to be act. It's actual innocence or nothing. If you're not claiming you're innocent, I don't care. At some point, like, how much process does this person get? How many appeals does he get before his rights under the Constitution have been vindicated? And in our current system, the answer is there is no limitation.
- [43:26]
Alice
There is no limit. The limit does not exist.
- [43:28]
Brett
The limit is until he finds a judge foolish enough to buy it 30 years later. And so that's where we were in this case. And it's just fortunate that the 10th Circuit was like no idiot and reversed it. I mean, we are very fortunate they did that.
- [43:44]
Alice
And here's the thing. We just told you the whole story. You saw, you were able to follow along how horrific this is. The problem is when you have, like an oral argument really just briefing, there's not even an oral argument. It's on paper. It's based on an old record. So you're not seeing the facts. Before this, this judge was reading a brief of like 20 to 30 pages. And they don't see all of the witnesses and everything. They should be reading the record, but they're not. They're reading the briefs, whatever the attorneys put before them. And they are so far removed from this ancient type of that they're making these decisions that are completely disconnected from the actual facts of the case. You shouldn't do that. But I think that's what happens when you are looking at something 30 years ago. There's no connection anymore. I mean, this happens, unfortunately, more often than not. And not just in the criminal context, really. Like, we need good judges across the board because this was a dereliction of duty. And thank goodness there were judges in the appeals court who were able to reinstate that conviction. But note, it still took more than a year. These are real people's lives are hanging in the balance as these judges, I think, are abandoning their duties.
- [44:54]
Brett
I mean, like Alice said, for over a year, those two girls who had seen him do it and then had been on the back of a snowmobile with him as he's fleeing from the crime scene are like, what in the world? It's just like. And the problem is judges like this do not understand the standard at all. They're like these people who we see sometimes who are under the misimpression that you are guaranteed a perfect trial and that if anything goes wrong, you have to get a new trial, whether or not it affects the trial or not. We talk about this a lot, right? And. And I am sure Judge Campbell came up with some ridiculous error at some point that she decided just had to be vindicated 30 years later in this case and never did the prejudice analysis. Though, frankly, from what the 10th Circuit said, it seems like she just got the law wrong. Like she just completely ignored the law in Utah. So maybe she's just incompetent, I don't know. But it's drives me crazy because this is the most important thing you do as a judge. This is your most sacred obligation and to just not. I mean, it's one thing idiot juror. I mean, it's just some idiot off the street who probably had no idea what he was doing and whatever. And that was just fine. You know, people make mistakes, but this is the most important thing you do. You're a district court judge. And to screw it up like this is, I. It's unforgivable. And I just. It's not good enough to me that it worked out in the end. And I feel this way of an ineffective assistance counsel. Like, if you're truly so ineffective that we need to have a new trial, something needs to happen to you. You as an attorney need to be punished for that. It shouldn't just be get out of jail free card for your client. You shouldn't be doing it anymore because you're a danger to the system. Yeah, yeah. You're not a good lawyer. You're not even good enough to represent people in court. And I kind of feel the same way. About judges, like, if you're going to get something so incredibly wrong and then you're just gonna be like, well, you know, I guess my appeal record is now not perfect anymore. Like, I don't know, it just, it makes me angry. As you can probably tell, This episode is sponsored by Better Help. Guys. The holidays are upon us. It's a time of traditions. Some of those are good, like all the great food you're gonna eat. And some of them are maybe less fun, like hanging out with some of those family members that you don't always get along with. Well, the thing about holidays is while they can be wonderful, they can also be incredibly stressful. And a lot of people, they come out of the holidays not feeling great. So maybe think about another tradition this year. Start therapy and take care of yourself. That is where BetterHelp comes in. They have quality therapists working according to a strict code of conduct and they are fully licensed in the US and best part, BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals.
- [48:13]
Alice
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- [49:00]
Brett
Know how much I love true crime, but I gotta tell you, after I record these episodes, sometimes I have a difficult time getting to sleep. I don't know if it's all of the details that we go through or if it's just sort of talking to Alice gets me really hyped up. But a lot of times I leave the recording studio and going to sleep is difficult for me. Well, enter Beam Dream Powder. Because when it comes to solving the case of your sleepless nights, dream is a lifesaver. Dream is made with a powerful blend of all natural ingredients. Reishi, magnesium, L theanine, apigenine and melatonin. It's designed to help you fall asleep, stay asleep and wake up feeling amazing. And unlike other sleep aids, there's no next day grogginess, just great restful sleep.
- [49:49]
Alice
So after drinking Beam's Dream Powder, my focus and energy came back and I finally felt like I could tackle life head on instead of just trying to get through it. And I'm not the only one. Beam has already improved over 17 and a half million nights of sleep, helping people across the country wake up and feel their best. And here's the twist. Beam's giving our listeners an exclusive offer of up to 40% off their best selling Dream Powder. That's right, up to 40% off. To finally crack the case of your bad sleep, go to shopbeam.com prosecutors and use code prosecutors at checkout. That's shop b e a m.com prosecutors and use code prosecutors for up to 40% off because better sleep, that's the kind of mystery you can solve. Like we've said multiple times, the reason the judiciary works in our country is faith of the people. Right. And things like this cause people to lose complete faith in the judiciary and lose faith in the criminal justice system. And what happens when you don't lose? Like, when you lose faith, nobody listens. They do extrajudicial things, which is bad for the rule of law. So that's why it's such a danger, all these sorts of actions. It's not just this one case. It has ramifications on, like, the entire judicial system and what we think about it and whether we are going to respect it.
- [51:18]
Brett
So she's still on the bench. So if you're. She's 80, she's a senior judge, so I don't know how much she does, but if you appear in front of her, just, you know, it's either a really good thing for you or a really bad thing, depending on if you got a loser of a case, congratulations, you might be able to win, but otherwise, whatever. She was a federal prosecutor before she became a judge. What in the world? God. Anyway, no, she was. I'm done with Judge Campbell.
- [51:54]
Alice
Now. I'm reading all about her.
- [51:56]
Brett
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, she was a. She was a. She was a federal prosecutor for over a decade.
- [52:02]
Alice
Oh, there's no excuse here then.
- [52:05]
Brett
No excuse. No excuse.
- [52:08]
Alice
How old was she? She was 75 then. Age limits. Age limits.
- [52:13]
Brett
She assumed senior status in 2011. So nine years after she assumed senior status, she should not be.
- [52:20]
Alice
Usually in most courts, you don't deal with death penalty cases when you go senior.
- [52:24]
Brett
That's true.
- [52:25]
Alice
So she chose this one.
- [52:26]
Brett
It's interesting.
- [52:28]
Alice
That is very interesting. Maybe there's a little. Maybe there's a little more of the story here.
- [52:33]
Brett
Yeah, maybe There is, but either way, she did not clothe herself in glory. They should. In 2007, she won the Woman Lawyer of the Year award. The Women Lawyers of Utah.
- [52:46]
Alice
What year?
- [52:47]
Brett
Pull that back. 2007.
- [52:49]
Alice
At least it was before this.
- [52:51]
Brett
Yeah. Anyway. Well, that's all we have on this.
- [52:54]
Alice
Merry Christmas, everybody.
- [52:56]
Brett
Merry Christmas. Yeah. See?
- [53:00]
Alice
Slay, slay. S L A Y S L E.
- [53:04]
Brett
I G H Slaying song tonight. Yes. Well, do you want to answer a question?
- [53:11]
Alice
Oh, let's answer a question, because that was a horrible story.
- [53:13]
Brett
This is not a question. But, Alice, do you have any favorite. I think we've talked about this. Favorite Christmas traditions. Traditions that you do.
- [53:22]
Alice
Other than biting Christmas lights and sledding down indoor stairways with Christmas trees.
- [53:28]
Brett
Other than those two things.
- [53:29]
Alice
Other than those two things. Let me think. Yes, lots of them. I love playing Christmas songs on the piano. Like, I just. I love the piano, whether it's me or someone else playing it. I just. I think it's so wonderful. I don't know. You guys know my favorite movies. Little Women. It's like Beth playing the piano before she dies.
- [53:51]
Brett
We're supposed to be uplifting in the questions. After all the depression, that's, like, one.
- [53:55]
Alice
Of the best scenes is, like, when Beth finally gets out of bed and she sees the piano that they get her, and she sits down there. Like, Beth, play a song. She's like. And then she plays Christmas music, and.
- [54:07]
Brett
Then she just falls over and dies.
- [54:08]
Alice
Or she doesn't die. Then that would be better. That's a happy day. But.
- [54:13]
Brett
Well, you know, I've been learning how to play the piano.
- [54:15]
Alice
I did not know that. Okay.
- [54:18]
Brett
And I'm pretty good at the Christmas songs. Like, Christmas has really been a revelation for me because I've been doing it. My daughter started taking lessons last year, so she's teaching me how to play.
- [54:28]
Alice
Oh, that's really cute.
- [54:30]
Brett
So I started sort of like. I don't know. I think I started at the beginning of summer because she was getting out of school, so it was a good way to keep her doing the piano. So she was teaching me how to play.
- [54:39]
Alice
Oh.
- [54:40]
Brett
And I was learning little songs, you know. But then Christmas came along, and, like, the Christmas songs are awesome. And so I'm like.
- [54:46]
Alice
And they're, like, not hard to play.
- [54:47]
Brett
They're not hard to play at all. Exactly. And so it's so. It's so, like, fulfilling to be able to do it.
- [54:52]
Alice
You know the tune.
- [54:53]
Brett
Yeah.
- [54:53]
Alice
Right.
- [54:53]
Brett
So it makes it a lot easier.
- [54:54]
Alice
You know, the Vivaldi Concerto Yes. But you know, Carol of the Bells, you know. You know, the first Noel, and then. I am one of those people. I don't know if you are. I love all of the Christmas things. I go to the Christmas Tree Farm. I do the Living Christmas Tree concerts. I go to Trans Siberian Orchestra. If they ever come to our small town concerts. I do. If there's a Christmas event somewhere in the community, I will be there. So all of the things. And it's just great. I make the little candy canes that look like reindeers. All of it. It's just joyous. I love it. I bake a lot of cookies. I do a lot of cookie exchanges. I do a lot of gingerbread house making.
- [55:35]
Brett
I just love holidays in general. I really get into holidays, as you know. So I'm really into Halloween. Thanksgiving's fine. Christmas, you know. Really.
- [55:43]
Alice
Don't say that to Squanto.
- [55:45]
Brett
I won't say that.
- [55:46]
Alice
Squanto.
- [55:47]
Brett
My problem with Thanksgiving is I wish it was a different time of year.
- [55:50]
Alice
Because it would be great if it were, like, March.
- [55:52]
Brett
March would be fantastic.
- [55:53]
Alice
It's not. There's not a ton going on. It's still kind of cold. March would be great.
- [55:57]
Brett
March would be great. And run into Easter every now and then. But that's fine because it's like, I want to. Once Halloween ends, I want to get to Christmas. I want more Christmas time. Right. Because I always feel like Thanksgiving happened and it's been such a rush to, like, turn to Christmas, you know?
- [56:12]
Alice
That's true. That's true. Like, I still have pumpkins outside my house because it's like Thanksgiving, you know? And then all of a sudden, I'm like, ah, I didn't put Christmas stuff up. It's already first week of December. I'm losing out on Christmas.
- [56:22]
Brett
Exactly. So I'm definitely. I always do the attack on those 12 days at the end.
- [56:27]
Alice
Oh, for sure. Epiphany. Epiphany's a real thing, man.
- [56:29]
Brett
Not till epiphany.
- [56:30]
Alice
That's right. The wise men were just wandering for 12 days. They need those Christmas trees. Guide the way.
- [56:36]
Brett
Exactly.
- [56:37]
Alice
Also, if I could change one thing, I would say Christmas lights up all year round. Not in your house. I mean, like, stores. All the stores look better lined with white Christmas lights. It doesn't have to be a Christmas thing.
- [56:48]
Brett
I feel like a lot. I wish they could say it started doing that.
- [56:51]
Alice
Well, it makes it so much happier. Like, no matter what, lights brighter, you can literally see better. Probably reduces crime.
- [56:58]
Brett
Probably.
- [56:58]
Alice
But, like, when your house is like, edged in lights. My house is not. But people's houses who are. It's beautiful.
- [57:06]
Brett
I also. I hate the fact it never gets cold here. Like, I wish it would snow.
- [57:10]
Alice
Right now. It's pretty cold.
- [57:12]
Brett
No, but I want it to be like 10 degrees outside.
- [57:14]
Alice
No, you don't. Yes, because then it'd be like Utah. I do.
- [57:17]
Brett
I'm fine with Utah. That's what I want. I want it to be cold. I want there to be ice and snow. That's what I want. That's what I love. I love that.
- [57:26]
Alice
Did you like living in Boston?
- [57:29]
Brett
Yes.
- [57:29]
Alice
No. No, no, no. Not. Not the. The actual location.
- [57:32]
Brett
I loved the weather in Boston.
- [57:34]
Alice
It was so cold.
- [57:35]
Brett
I loved it. I was sad it didn't snow more in Boston. We had one winter when I was there that was relatively mild, and I hated it. I was like, where's the snow?
- [57:47]
Alice
You know, I hated the snow. It was so bad. Like, I. Right now, it's not even that cold for us guys. It's like 40 degrees, but it feels really cold every night. I'm like, layering on, like, I wore two sweatshirts to the bed last night because I couldn't get warm. I was like, this is horrible.
- [58:02]
Brett
You know, Warm Lola blankets. We have the Lola blanket on our bed now. It's like our comfort. It's like I'm Jon Snow, Game of Thrones. Like a bear skin or something. It's, like, so warm.
- [58:16]
Alice
So baby Alison is, like, learning to walk right now. And his. Where he walks to, not mom, not dad, is he walks to the lolo blanket and stuffs his face in the soft fur.
- [58:27]
Brett
Oh, Bralis loves it.
- [58:29]
Alice
Yeah. It's amazing.
- [58:30]
Brett
I'm telling you. Remember, code prosecutors are 40% off. Like, look, I get it. I get it. You've all said it. They're a little expensive.
- [58:38]
Alice
They're real expensive.
- [58:39]
Brett
They're a pricey blanket, number one. But number two, you can get 40% off code prosecutors. And they're huge.
- [58:48]
Alice
There's. You're right. It is bigger than a king comforter.
- [58:51]
Brett
It's massive. It's a massive. You cannot appreciate.
- [58:54]
Alice
You go massive. How many kids we have, My entire family fits under the blanket with much to spare.
- [59:01]
Brett
And, like, we tried to buy some knockoff blankets for the kids.
- [59:04]
Alice
Good. No, there's nothing. It's the. It's the.
- [59:07]
Brett
No one was more surprised than me. Okay?
- [59:11]
Alice
The two of us made so much fun.
- [59:12]
Brett
We made a lot of fun.
- [59:13]
Alice
This is not an ad, by the way.
- [59:15]
Brett
Then we can say this on here, because this is an ad. So they're not listening. Because they listen to the ads a lot of times, but they're not listening to this. So we can be completely honest with you. We made fun of the blankets.
- [59:23]
Alice
Okay.
- [59:23]
Brett
When we got the thing, we were.
- [59:24]
Alice
Like, we really made fun. Blankets. Really.
- [59:27]
Brett
We're gonna do blankets. And we looked at the. If you go to the website and.
- [59:30]
Alice
Like, the ads are hilarious.
- [59:33]
Brett
Very strange.
- [59:34]
Alice
It's very vogue. It's like very high fashion vogue, but with blankets. And we made fun of them. And we had a little photo shoot of our own.
- [59:42]
Brett
We did.
- [59:42]
Alice
Making fun of the blankets that you.
- [59:45]
Brett
Guys will never see now. It's like, yeah, you'll never see those.
- [59:49]
Alice
I may. I may have stood on a chair, on a. On a dining room table. Yes.
- [59:53]
Brett
And I was like. I was, like, pointing off in the distance, wrapped up in my blanket, my Lola blanket. Like, I like, it was a toga from the Romans. We were wrong. I repent of all my laughing because they are amazing.
- [60:07]
Alice
You know, we don't get, like, every product that we advertise for, but I so hope that they forgot they gave us one and asked to give us another one.
- [60:17]
Brett
I do too.
- [60:19]
Alice
I didn't get it because sometimes when they're like, we'd love to send you more content contacts. And I'm like, you already sent us contacts. I would be like, oh, I would love to try your blanket.
- [60:27]
Brett
Yeah. If they. I would lie if they asked. No, you did. I really need one. We're gonna be able to represent the product. We need to try it out. Amazing. My wife was literally just saying yesterday that she wanted another blanket.
- [60:43]
Alice
I know.
- [60:44]
Brett
Peace. 40% off code, prosecutors.
- [60:48]
Alice
It is pretty great.
- [60:49]
Brett
So whatever you see, basically, it's half that.
- [60:51]
Alice
Yeah.
- [60:52]
Brett
But they are pricey. That's why I use the code. Anyway, with that, thank you to everyone on Patreon and your ad free episodes.
- [61:01]
Alice
Well, this wasn't an ad.
- [61:04]
Brett
Yeah. It's just true. It's coming from a heart. Coming.
- [61:07]
Alice
It's coming from the heart. I love it. I want to go back to it right now.
- [61:10]
Brett
I love all our sponsors. It's kind of like Animal Farm. All sponsors are equal, but some are more equal than others. And I got, like, three or four that I really love, and Lola is one of them, so.
- [61:24]
Alice
Yep, it's definitely one that I use every day.
- [61:28]
Brett
Yeah. Oh, I love it so much. I cannot overstate how awesome it is.
- [61:32]
Alice
So soft.
- [61:32]
Brett
It is so awesome.
- [61:34]
Alice
Looks so good. Everyone who comes to our house, like, notes that they love the blanket.
- [61:40]
Brett
It's crazy. It's like I said, I feel like Henry viii. Seriously, like, if you think about all those shows, like I said Game of Thrones earlier, these medieval shows, whenever they show the beds, they're always like piled with all these furs and just looks so inviting and so warm, which is probably not how it really was. It's probably, like terrible. But that's what it looks in the shows. That's the way it is. Having one of those blankets like a king. Anyway, well, if you would like to get your episodes early and ad free, $3 through Patreon, you can watch us record these live if you enjoy that kind of thing. If you have any thoughts about this case, about death penalty, about federal judges and how much they suck or anything else you want to criticize juries. I'm in a jury criticizing mood right now. You know, normally I'm defending juries, but I'm unhappy with this one. Shoot us an email on prosecutors podmail.com@ ProsecutorsPod for all your social media. Join us on the gallery. We're on Discord now. We're just talking about that. Trying to make the Discord a thing. Trying to make Discord happen. I don't know if it's ever gonna happen or not, but the gallery is definitely hopping. Join us on the gallery. Follow us on all social media. We're everywhere. It's been a great year. We're gonna have like a year in review episode next week and then we'll have a bloopers episode. But we're ready for 2026, right, Alice?
- [63:00]
Alice
I think it's going to be an exciting year.
- [63:02]
Brett
It's going to be an exciting year. Yeah. Yeah, it's going to be awesome. Another year. No, 25 episode series next year. So that's good.
- [63:12]
Alice
A lot more yet.
- [63:14]
Brett
Yeah, not yet.
- [63:16]
Alice
We haven't had another baby. We haven't had time to research. We've been too busy raising the babies.
- [63:22]
Brett
Exactly. That's the problem. That's the problem. Okay, guys, so this has been a lot of fun. Merry Christmas to all of you. I hope you have a wonderful holiday with your families and we are so thankful to have all of you and you are all a blessing to us.
- [63:42]
Alice
Merry Christmas, everybody. Yes.
- [63:43]
Brett
Merry Christmas. We'll be back next week, the year in review episode. But until then, you. I'm Brett.
- [63:50]
Alice
And I'm Alice.
- [63:51]
Brett
And we are the prosecutors.
- [64:13]
Alice
Okay, so last time. Time it was too soon. I hadn't really gotten into the Christmas season. Movie watching. That's quite the cinnamon straw. You're using there. Brett it's like with my child, when I'm talking to my child and I'm like, can you be quiet? And they're like, what do you mean? So there's my child. Brett I watched the best movie, best Christmas movie that I will watch this whole season. And you guys should all go watch it because it's written by a friend of the show. Prosecuting. Oh, what fun. Starring Michelle Pfeiffer, who forgot I love her on prime. Sam. Cabin.
- [65:49]
Brett
The t days family cabin, which k lovingly referred to as t days tranquility. I feel like I need to figure out how to say her name since we're gonna say it so many times.
- [65:57]
Alice
I was gonna say, is it t day?
- [65:59]
Brett
I don't know.
- [65:59]
Alice
I was gonna say teed. I thought it was in my mind with absolutely nothing. I thought it was tea. Sam.
- [66:53]
Brett
Joy to the world Pluto TV is free with all the best stories? The lame days are brutal?
- [67:02]
Alice
So if you're feeling Frugal, stream Pluto TV.
- [67:06]
Brett
Stream Pluto TV streaming Pluto TV for free. Stream blockbuster hits like 21 Jump Street, Ted D, Expendables and so much more on Pluto TV. Stream Now Pay never.