← The Prosecutors
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- [00:00]
A
This podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save some money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could be hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [00:26]
B
Hi, I'm Juliet Cowley, a retired FBI profiler and host of the true crime podcast the Real FBI Profilers. If you're fascinated with true crime and criminal profiling, then join us as we discuss real cases and examine the behavior exhibited before, during, and after the commission of the crime. You can listen to the consult wherever you get your podcasts. It's as close as it gets to being in the room with the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit.
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A
I'm brett.
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B
And I'm alice.
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A
And we are the prosecutors. Today on the Prosecutors, Chance Engelbert seemed to be well liked by just about everyone he met. So when he disappeared under mysterious circumstances in 2019, those closest to him were left scratching their heads. But has this mystery been solved? Hello, everyone, and welcome to this episode of the prosecutors. This 2026 episode of the Prosecutors. I'm Brett and I'm joined as always by my Mei Lee co host, Alice.
- [02:13]
B
Brett, that was Mandarin and it meant beautiful.
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A
It is. That's right.
- [02:17]
B
But you said it so well that I actually understood it. I am you guys not watching New Year? New Brett. Oh, I'm actually shocked. I've never understood any of your attempts at Mandarin.
- [02:30]
A
Well, that was pretty easy, frankly, but. And accurate.
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B
Thank you. Your other pretty easy pronunciations aren't real good. No, I'm sorry. You're the best.
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A
Painful.
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B
You're the best. What I'm saying is 2026 is your year. Take that one. Star reviews. About your accent, are you a believer.
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A
In the Chinese zodiac?
- [02:54]
B
I don't know if you believe it or not. It's like the way you're raised. So, like, it's the fabric of who you are. Like, I've always been told, oh, you have a hot temper because you're a tiger. Now as an adult, I'm like, huh? Has nothing to do with my zodiac sign. Maybe I'm just invasion.
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A
So my understanding is your year is actually a bad year. Right? Like every time your year comes around, like, you would think, oh, it's my year.
- [03:19]
B
I like, like Americans who are like it's my year. Golden birthday.
- [03:23]
A
Exactly. But in reality, or my understanding. You can correct me if I'm wrong here. My understanding is when your zodiac symbol comes up, that's a year to be feared and be worried about. Is that right?
- [03:33]
B
Honestly, there are so many superstitions, I can't keep track of all of them because it might be your year, but it might also be, you're, like, divergent, because everyone has an opposing one. There's, like, ones that you're good with, ones that you're bad with. Like, maybe Snake is your enemy, but Snake is actually really good friends with Monkey. So, like, really, you should be scared. Under the Chinese zodiac calendar, 11 and a half out of the 12 years.
- [03:55]
A
Yeah, see, I was thinking about this. I don't know why I was thinking about this, but my experience has been that my years have not been good years. When I think back on the every 12 years, it's, like, not a great year. And 2016 is not my year. So there's really no reason for me to be talking about this. But it's coming up. And so every year, as we get closer to it, I'm like, oh, man.
- [04:17]
B
Gotta.
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A
Gotta get ready.
- [04:19]
B
So the thing is, you're. I mean, I'm not kidding when I say it's like the fabric of your life. At least the way I was raised, it was very much like. You talked about it all the time. It was like, it's your year. You knew who your opposition was. Like, people would be like, your new friend. What's his zodiac symbol? And it's like, dog. Dogs and tigers don't get along. Like, things like that. Right. Can't be friends with Joe.
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A
Did you end up marrying a opposing symbol or how did that work out?
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B
Of course not. It worked out great. It worked out great. But you see my point with you saying that you look back on your years and they've all been bad. There might be something to it, because the Chinese have been around for a lot of millennia and they take notes about everything. So there might just be something to this counting the stars thing.
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A
This literally has nothing to do with.
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B
Nothing to do with what we have.
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A
To say, though I'll say this chance. Engelbert was a rooster, a cock, just like me.
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B
This wasn't he.
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A
I just happened to know that because he was born on one of my years, so.
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B
Well, there you go. But, you know. You know, that's what's confusing about the zodiac calendar, because you don't go by years because the lunar. You go by the lunar calendar that actually is very confusing because, like, my mom's, for example, celebrates her lunar birthday, which is different every year, and she gets mad when she's like, you didn't remember my lunar birthday? I'm like, which day was it this year? And she goes, I don't know. I need to go check. Exactly.
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A
There you go.
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B
Is just because it was the same year, just maybe y' all aren't the same zodiac symbol. I'm trying to basically say that maybe you won't disappear.
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A
We will.
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B
Let's hope. Let's hope.
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A
But he did not disappear in one of his years. Anyways, this is a complete aside. We are talking about the.
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B
Welcome to the new year.
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A
New year, same chatter, same podcast. Nothing's changed. This is the way it's always going to be. Same. So, you know, there you go. But I hope you guys enjoyed that discussion. The lunar calendar, which was. You never know what you're going to get when you come to the prosecutors. I mean, sometimes it's going to be just dive straight in. Sometimes we're going to talk about the Chinese zodiac for a while.
- [06:21]
B
I'm not going to lie. We don't even know what awaits us in the Pandora box.
- [06:26]
A
Exactly. Exactly. But the case we're talking about today is one that has been requested a lot and one that has had a development in recent months. So we're really excited to talk about this case because even though there's been a development, number one, doesn't necessarily mean the case is solved. And number two, to the extent it is solved, I think it really sheds a lot of light on sort of the. I'm not going to call it the dark side of true crime, because this is not the dark side true crime, but just how we always talk about Occam's Razor and being cold water prosecutors. Well, there's the other side to that. The sort of conspiratorial, the more dramatic side of things. And it often posits all these theories about what happens in these cases, and we see it a lot. And then sometimes we have a case solved, and it frankly sort of makes you realize how often those wild theories turn out not to be correct. So with all that, let's talk about chance, Engelbert. And I have to say this, even though we've already talked about something else for a while. Are you familiar, Alice, with the singer Engelbert Humperdink?
- [07:41]
B
I am not, but I now really want to listen to them because it's a great name.
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A
Engelbert Humperdink. I Mean, it's just the only reason.
- [07:48]
B
I know Eagle write themselves there.
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A
Humperdink is. I feel like back when I was growing up, 80s and 90s, there was sort of like, you know how they would sell CDs, like the $0.01 CD club that you would join, and you get a CD with a whole bunch of random songs on it.
- [08:04]
B
Okay, I thought those were like, scams.
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A
Well, they probably were scams. And I feel like we've had this conversation before.
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B
My mom never let me join those because we thought those were scams. But apparently Brett was on lots of these lists.
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A
Well, Engelbert Humperdink was one of the names that always came up on these CDs. And that's the only way I even know who Engelbert Humperdink is. I don't know that I've ever heard any of his songs.
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B
What's the genre?
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A
He's a British pop singer.
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B
Oh, that's one person. Two different people.
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A
Listeners are going crazy. So I guess he's pop in Australia. No, his name is Engelbert Humperdink.
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B
That's a great name.
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A
And so whenever I hear about chance Engelbert, I always. My mind always goes to Engelbert Humperdink. This is another aside. And probably wait, whatever song I pick will be an Eaglebert Humperdink song for this. For this episode.
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B
Can I just say, this is the moment of truth. If there is a spike in Spotify's listens of Humperdinck, we know we've made it.
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A
Yes, there you go.
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B
Because I don't think they're getting a shout out anywhere else.
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A
If Inglebert Humperdinck is suddenly flying up.
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B
The charts, they're like, what is happening? And we know we've made it vicariously. No one will know, but we will know.
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A
Yeah. And you know, I mean, what a great name, Engelbert Humperdink. But anyways, okay. And you know, just one other fact about Engelbert Humperdinck that I love also.
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B
Has nothing to do with the case we're talking about today, guys.
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A
Engelbert Humperdinck is not even his name. Like, he's not name. That's his stage name.
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B
I mean, it's a good stage name.
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A
But can you imagine?
- [09:40]
B
I mean, is Humperdink a common British name?
- [09:44]
A
I have no idea. If anyone knows why Engelbert Humperdinck chose that name as his stage name, email us in. We'll talk about it later. Anyways, okay. So with that, I can already Feel the angry comments. I feel your anger.
- [10:00]
B
2026 is our year to continue to anger the masses.
- [10:04]
A
Coming through the podcast weeks before this is even released. I can already feel your anger. So, anyways, let's talk about this case. So Chance Engelbert was born, and that was his real name, December 2, 1993, to parents Don and Everett Engelbert. And he was the oldest child. He had two younger brothers, Miles and Clay, and the family lived together on a ranch in South Dakota. He was sort of a cowboy growing up, and he was known as a great outdoorsman. He loved living in the country, and before long, he had fallen in love with the rodeo. He was a bareback rider in the rodeo. He was really good at it. And all of this is gonna become important later on because this is one of those stories where you have someone who sort of disappears in the outdoors. And this. It wasn't like, me, like, if I got lost in the woods, like, behind my house, I wouldn't know what to do, right? I'd barely be able to find my way out. But Chance was one of those people who sort of lived outdoors. He was somebody who was very familiar with the outdoors, and you would think would be the kind of person who, if he were to get in a situation where he's stuck outside, he would be fine, unlike maybe a lot of us who are listening to this podcast. And he actually earned a scholarship in rodeo to the Laramie County Community College.
- [11:22]
B
How cool is that?
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A
That is awesome.
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B
Actually, I did know this coming from Texas, but, like, it's kind of a big deal because people who rodeo like this is what they do all the time since they're kids. So to get a scholarship, unless it's mutton busting, because you just have to be a kid and hang on to a sheep that gets spanked. But to the rodeo. Rodeo scholarship is kind of a big deal.
- [11:43]
A
Yeah, it is a big deal. And it's. It's just. I love this about. I'm sure other countries are like this, too, but the great thing about the United States is it's so big and diverse, is that you have this, like, people winning rodeo scholarships, right? And so he did that, and he's studying welding and diesel mechanics, two pretty lucrative fields. And he's also, you know, not only is he into rodeo, but he also wants to work on demolition derby cars, which I didn't realize you had to work on them. I thought the whole point was, like, destroying them, but apparently, I guess you got to get them. You got to get them ready to be destroyed for the derby. And that was something that he worked on. And through this newfound hobby, he meets a friend, his best friend, Matt Miller, and he actually develops such an interest in demolition derby that he leaves his first love, the rodeo, to dedicate more time to it, which is. I don't know, I think that's pretty cool.
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B
This is sounds awesome.
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A
I don't have hobbies like this.
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B
He's living the dream of my eight year old, so. But he's like doing it. Well, my 8 year old is not.
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A
You know, my hobby is talking to Alice two or three times a week.
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B
Which if Humperdinck shoots up in the charts, we know we've made it.
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A
There you go.
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B
That's a good point. It's our version of a scholarship.
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A
You know, Engelbert, he's still alive, so if that happens, maybe he'll come on the show. I mean, he's like 90, but you never know. Book.
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B
Maybe he has more time for us then.
- [13:06]
A
Look, as we established in our end of the year episodes, Great Britain is our number two country. So if you know Engelbert Humperdink, let him know that we're interested in having him on to talk about his career. So maybe that'll happen. So anyways, so this actually this demolition derby thing is going to become critically important in Chance's life because In October of 2017, Chance and Matt go to Scottsbluff, Nebraska to pick up a derby car. And while he's there, Chance meets briefly or with a girl that he had spoken to online, a girl he'd gotten to know who lived in Nebraska and her name was Bailey. And wouldn't you know it, the two of them hit it off immediately from the very beginning and they start dating right then. And a year later, In October of 2018, they were married.
- [14:08]
B
Chance's entire life sounds like a country song, everything about it. Demolition derby. He's a bareback rider, which by the way, I ride horses. I can't. Other people can. I cannot ride bareback. It's like impossible for me. So he's incredibly good at this. And then, you know, he like meets this girl and gets married a year later and seems to have a happily ever after. But maybe not so fast because according to Chance's family members, while they always had a good relationship with Bailey during the wedding planning process, some tensions rose. Those of you who've ever planned a wedding are probably like, yeah, sounds about right. If tensions didn't rise, I don't know. They're all saints on every side. But I would say that that definitely happens. But, you know, they definitely noticed this. They were all good until kind of the wedding planning got going. Now, their wedding was very small and they got the impression that Bailey did not want Chance's family at the wedding. Now, shortly after the wedding, Chance and Bailey announced that they were expecting their first child. Chance was absolutely over the moon to be a dad. He was working full time for a local mining company while Bailey was in full time nursing. He worked very hard. He saved up to buy the family a home in Moorcraft, Wyoming. So seems still like a fairy tale. They meet, great romance, married within a year. Now they have a baby on the way. On April 4, 2019, the couple welcomed their son Banks. Chance's family hoped this would be an opportunity for the whole family to come together. What better than a baby to bring the family together? But it doesn't seem that this baby was really going to do that. Chance's family and friends reported that Chance and Bailey's relationship had a lot of ups and downs. They loved each other a lot, but according to those who knew them, they also fought a lot. Now, Bailey later on would deny this. She would say there was no ups and downs. And for what it's worth, the people who reported this kind of a reporting.
- [16:11]
A
This, looking backwards and you know, we're gonna see some things as we go through this. Alice makes such a good point. And it's something you should always remember. In all these cases, everyone is always looking back through the lens of later events and that color is their interpretation of what happened before. So if it's a circumstance where it's just like anything else, I mean, if someone in your life passes away, oftentimes you want to remember them in the best light. So you forget a lot of their bad qualities.
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B
Right.
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A
Well, in a circumstance like this, Chance is going to disappear. That's why we're talking about this case. And there are going to be some things that happen that make people look sort of askance at Bailey. So then you have his family who's looking back on their relationship, their son having disappeared, and they are now beginning to remember all the negative things between them. They remember every fight they ever had. Right. And it becomes amplified in their mind. And so when they're reporting about the relationship, they're talking about it like that. Now, from Bailey's perspective, she's thinking, what are you talking about? Yeah, I mean, we had like normal disagreements like any couple, but we were fine. We were great. Right? And just those different perspectives colored by time always make it more difficult when you're trying to figure out what actually happened in these cases.
- [17:36]
B
And one thing to note as well, we have kind of a short time period. We're about to go into the timeline, of course, but we're talking about a period of time preceding what's about to happen, where they get married, pretty much immediately have a baby, and then are in the newborn phase. They're not sleeping. A lot of life changes, they move to Wyoming, they buy a house, they have this whole new responsibility. I think that would be a stressor really on any family, any couple, any new parents. So that's something else to keep in mind, is we're also honing in on a very specific time period in someone's life. Life, I would say probably the newborn stage of any of my kids is way more up and down, so to speak, than if you zoomed out at like 20 years of my life or more than that.
- [18:18]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And so this is going to become problematic in the bigger family. So you have these tensions and you have sort of the way that Chance's family is viewing this. And as we said during the wedding, there had been some problems. And look, everybody has issues, their in laws, right? I mean, it just happens like this is the family you inherit, not the family you choose. You pick the girl or the guy, you end up with everybody else, right? And sometimes that's great and sometimes it's not so great. And in this case, it actually starts to cause problems with Chance and his family, particularly his mother, Dawn. Now, dawn, from her perspective, she sees this couple who's fighting a lot. They're not getting along, they. They're having all these issues. And so she decides she's going to try and help them navigate this relationship. You know, she's been through these things before. She's got some wisdom. She wants to share that wisdom with them. And she goes so far as to help them get into counseling, into some sort of marriage counseling to help their relationship along. And shocker of shockers, this is not exactly well received, particularly by Bailey.
- [19:31]
B
I was going to say if you did anyone zoom out, doesn't matter how much you like your mother in law, if your mother in law, whatever, you know, part of the relationship, mother in law says, you know what you need counseling probably doesn't go for great.
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A
And I got a great counselor I'll hook you up with. I mean, yeah. So Bailey, she resents this. And eventually Chance comes to agree with her that this is meddling and this is way too much and she really needs to mind her own business, whether or not she has good intentions or not. So this is sort of boiling up, bubbling over, Adding to the tension. In the summer of 2019, we have yet another stressor. Chance and 600 other employees, including his friend Matt, are all laid off from the coal mining company that they work at now. Coal companies. I got lots of family who are either in coal mining or been in coal mining. They can be great jobs when you have them, but they're basically the most unsteady, ephemeral job you can have, particularly these days, because, you know, it all depends on what the price of coal is and what the current regulations are and what kind of coal you're mining. And, you know, do we have coal coming in? Do we have some sort of trade war? Are we able to sell coal overseas? Is overseas coal being sold here? The coal plants closing down? Are they opening up? You just never know, right? So these coal mines, they'll open up, they'll hire a bunch of people, and they'll pay a lot of money, and then they shut down for six months, and the employees are just sitting around waiting, and that's exactly what happens here. And obviously, this is a huge blow to Chance. He's got this new family, he's got this new baby he's trying to take care of, and all of a sudden, he doesn't have a job. Now, fortunately, he is able to quickly find a job in the propane industry, which always makes me think of king of the hill. And this also means that he would get the 4th of July weekend off. So the two of them make plans to hunt at Chance's family ranch. However, remember, we have all these problems with Don. Just before the 4th, Chance and his mom, Don, have another disagreement over her involvement in his relationship. And he says, look, I need a week off from seeing or speaking to you. So this whole plan to come to the family ranch and hunt, it's not gonna happen. It's not gonna work out, because, frankly, I just can't even be around you right now. And he makes other plans. Now, one thing that's important here is Chance has a little bit of a temper, and he can kind of lose it at times, and this becomes important later on. And you see that here where he is canceling this big trip over this fight, you know, he can't just get over it. Can't just, like, agree to disagree. It's one of those things where he needs space and he needs time.
- [22:33]
B
I was gonna say, actually sounds a lot like a cowboy, which he is.
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A
Right or demolition derby person.
- [22:40]
B
Yeah. I mean it seems very consistent with what we're seeing in his personality. No judgment on it. I don't have the coolest of tempers, perhaps you guys know. But this all seems kind of in kind, so it doesn't seem like that this is that out of the ordinary for when he gets heated in a particular situation.
- [23:01]
A
And this whole case, it's like that. I'm sure y' all have seen that meme where it's like all the dominoes and the last dominoes, like really big. There's like a little domino and little domino would be something random and then the big domino will be like, you know, the fall of the Soviet Union. Like the first domino will be like someone ordered ice cream at Dairy Queen and then the fall of the Soviet Union. This case is a lot like that because all of these different things line up to make this case happen. So everything from them going down to Nebraska to pick up a derby car where he meets her and they get married and then they have these tensions and then he gets laid off, which opens up July 4th weekend and he was going to go hunting at the ranch, but then the ranch falls through. And so now still having this open weekend but not going to the ranch. Chance and Matt, they cancel their plans and now Chance and Bailey are going to go visit her family in Gearing, Nebraska. So not going to the ranch anymore. Now we're going to to Nebraska. And this is one of the key moments because unfortunately Chance would not return from that trip. Only three months after his son was born and days before starting a new job, Chance would disappear.
- [24:26]
B
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money. When you bundle your home and auto policies, the process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. I have kind of a tense relationship with makeup because I have to look professional in court or recording these podcasts. But I feel like a lot of the makeup I use just doesn't make me look like me. I want my skin to look healthy and fresh, not caked on or covered up. And sometimes when I have makeup on, it feels like I'm a totally different person. That's why I am so excited about our sponsor, Jones Road Beauty Miracle Balm. It is so amazing because it enhances my skin instead of masking it with layers of makeup. It gives me this effortless natural look that I'm looking for so that people know me and can see me for who I am. And it's honestly replaced the multiple steps that I used to have in my makeup routine. You can use the highlighter, the bronzer, the blush, the lip tint, and it's the ultimate no fuss multitasker. And it's so much faster in the mornings. I am rushing to get four kids out the door, but with no brushes and no complicated routine, the makeup is just at my fingertips and I get to go. I love how it simplified my routine from multiple steps to just a couple. And I look great when I run out the door in under 60 seconds with my makeup routine. The best part of Jones Road Beauty all of their products are actually good for your skin. Every formula is packed with skin loving ingredients. It nourishes your skin instead of clogging or caking and it looks and feels natural like you're not even wearing makeup. All Jones Road formulas are clean and high performing. They have none of that gross stuff like sulfates, petroleum pegs, Silicon Valley. I can't even say them all because clean beauty is a no brainer. Jones Road doesn't just have their famous miracle balm. They've built a full lineup of effortless skin first staples like their Just Enough Tinted Moisturizer, a lightweight non comedogenic formula that smooths an even skin tone with a soft touch of coverage. It hides redness and it looks natural and feels like nothing is on your skin. It's packed with stick skin friendly ingredients to keep your skin moisturized without clogging pores. If you want makeup that brings out your natural glow instead of hiding it, Jones Road is the way to go. For a limited time, our listeners are getting a free cool gloss on their first purchase when they use Code Prosecutors at checkout. Just head to jonesroadbooty.com and use code Prosecutors at checkout. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you. So let's dive into the timeline. July 6, 2019 on the morning of July 6, Chance and Bailey were still visiting with her family in Goering, Nebraska. He spoke with several of his family members on the phone, including his brother Everett. Even though he had a fight with his mom, it wasn't a situation where he's like cutting off his family. He just needed to blow off some steam, still talking to his other family members, including his dad, on that day, July 6th. Now, Chance and Everett talked about how eager Chance was to start his new job on Monday. And Everett let Chance know that a package had been delivered to him at their family home. Chance let his dad know that he would be over tomorrow, July 7th to pick up that package. Later that day, Chance went golfing with his father in law and brother in law in Gehring. At some point during his golf outing, him and Bailey spoke on the phone. She reported that Chance was in a great mood, so she decided to bring their son Banks down to the golf course to see his dad. So everything's great, making future plans, gonna go pick up a package, gonna start a new job, having a great golfing day with people that he's not fighting with.
- [28:45]
A
Right. But unfortunately, in the time it took for her to get Banks ready, get him in the car seat and drive over, everything had changed. She gets to the golf course and Chance's mood is a complete 180 from where he was before. Before he was happy. Now he is incredibly angry. He's visibly angry. And when he sees Bailey, he said, get the f back in the car, we're leaving. So she just walked into something, right? Apparently, from what she could gather from Chance, he was very upset, either his brother in law or his father in law. So either her brother or her father had made a comment about Chance's new job. They had said something in particular about the pay that he was going to receive. Now it's not clear exactly what the comment was and no one's ever bothered to clarify because I'm sure this is not anyone's proudest moment, but Bailey reported on an episode of Vanished that someone said something along the lines of, at least you aren't making minimum wage by Nebraska standards. So I guess wages were generally higher in Wyoming than they were in Nebraska. But it's unclear exactly what he meant. But whatever he meant, Chance took it the wrong way. He took it as some sort of slight that he was insulting his new job. He's insulting his ability to provide for his family. This is like a big blow to his, I don't know, his personal honor or something. And he gets really angry to the point that he wants nothing to do with them. Now, he'd been playing golf and everybody knows when you've been playing golf, he's been drinking and who knows how much he's been drinking. Now, he didn't seem like he was drunk, but as we all also know, it's often hard to tell whether someone's drunk. And look, he's a cowboy who's into rodeo and demolition derby. I'm gonna go out on a limb and stereotype him and say he's probably somebody who can drink a good bit. Yeah, he can hold his liquor. Nobody's necessarily going to know just how intoxicated he is. But whatever the case, whether he's drunk or whether it was just a comment that really cut the wrong way, he is angry. Now Bailey knows when Chance is this mad, you just go with it. So they get back in the car and they begin driving back to her grandparents home in gehring.
- [31:21]
B
So at 7pm they arrive back in the driveway of her grandparents. Now Chance said no, he wanted to go back to their home. Bailey tried to convince him to stay since they had dinner plans. It's already 7 o' clock and they were supposed to see some friends of hers. But Chance had made up his mind. She told him that she would go inside and pack up and then they could get on the road to head back home to Wyoming. In other words, she's basically going along with him. He's clearly very upset. She's pushing a little bit, saying, hey, we have these plans, it's already 7 o', clock, let's have dinner. But when he pushes that he wants to go home, she kind of throws up her hands and says, alright, I'll go pack up her things. You don't have to see anybody. So they both got out of the car and Chance began to walk off down the street. According to Bailey, she grabbed Banks out of his car seat and ran inside to pass him off to her grandmother. By the time she got back outside though, she couldn't see Chance anywhere. This was apparently not completely out of the norm for Chance, according to Bailey as well as several of his friends and family members. Like we said, Chance did have a bit of a temper, that cowboy temper. And sometimes in order to blow off steam, he would just take a walk to clear his head. At this point, Bailey knew how upset he was. She's already passed off the baby to grandma. She gets in her car and she begins driving around looking for Chance. She also tries calling him a couple of times, but he doesn't answer.
- [32:48]
A
Now people who are suspicious of Bailey are already wondering about this because this seems weird, right? Like, okay, he's so mad he wants to go home and she says fine, let's go home. I mean, her position is I did everything you wanted, I completely took his side, he wants to go to Wyoming. We can go to Wyoming, right? We don't have to stay here. I mean, I would have preferred to stay and see my friends, but that's fine. I'm gonna go pack some stuff, and we'll go. And despite that, he just walks away. And despite the fact he's walking away and apparently just walking down the road, she can't find him, even though she drives off to find him. So we're all in true crime here. And you can imagine, I mean, people hear this and they're like, this doesn't ring true. This doesn't make sense. So people are already questioning, is this really what happened? I mean, I'll say this. There are lessons to be learned from every true crime case, and one of them, like, get control of your temper. You know, drinking and temper. People make the worst decisions under the influence of either or in particular, both. And here we have a situation where somebody who has a temper has had a little bit to drink and is apparently starting to make bad decisions. But whatever you think about Bailey, and however truthful you think she's being, we know she didn't murder him and bury him in the backyard. Because at around 7:23, so about 20 minutes after this apparently happened, Chance calls Matt, his best friend, and explains the situation to him. And he's very upset. He's still angry, and he asks Matt to come pick him up. Now, remember, he and Matt were supposed to go somewhere together. That plan got canceled. So instead, he goes down to Nebraska, and he actually tells Matt that he is walking north towards Torrington, wyoming, which is 35 miles away from Goring. So it's not entirely clear, but it seems like at this point, Chance was like, I'm not gonna walk to Wyoming. I'm not even gonna wait. Now he decides that's not a great idea. So he's calling Matt. He's saying, hey, I am on my way. Can you come pick me up? Now, the problem was Matt was hours away. He wasn't in Torrington. He. Because his plans got canceled. He had gone out with some other friends, and he had spent the day drinking with those people. So he's not in a place where he can come and get Chance. So he tells him, look, I can't make it, but I'll call some people and see if there's anyone else who can come get you. So shortly Thereafter, at around 7:45, Chance and Bailey speak on the phone. And this would be a good moment for Chance to just say, like, hey, why don't you come pick me up? He tells her that he's walking towards Kimball, Nebraska. Now, it's a little unclear whether Kimball is on the way to Torrington, Wyoming, but in any event, he's telling her, generally speaking, where he is. At the same time Matt is calling Dawn. So Matt is calling Chance's mom to see whether she can go pick him up. And she said, I don't think this is a good idea because Chance has already told me he doesn't want to speak to me. He doesn't want to see me for a week. We just had a big fight. It sounds like he's really upset. Anyway, I'm the last person who should drive down there to get him. So I'm gonna call his Aunt Katie and his Uncle John.
- [36:38]
B
Great family, by the way. Also, I'm very confused by Nebraska and Wyoming. Like, it's all very big to me. But he's just walking around and he has lots of people calling on his behalf, for what it's worth. Like, he is, he's very interconnected. He's not a lone wolf.
- [36:53]
A
Well, for those of you who, like Alice, are not that familiar with American geography, so Nebraska is sort of a weird looking state. You know, it looks kind of like a bread loaf with like a little ledge sticks over. Yeah, a little ledge that sticks over. And so that, that ledge part is on top of Colorado and runs into Wyoming. So Wyoming is directly to the west. Nebraska. This like panhandle of Nebraska, which you don't often think of and frankly is completely different from the rest of Nebraska. Like, if you've ever driven the interstate from like Omaha to Denver, it's the most boring, awful road you ever be on.
- [37:37]
B
Just drive it with your eyes closed because there's nothing to hit.
- [37:41]
A
You seriously can, like if you got one of those auto driving cars, you just put it on, take a nap, in a couple hours you'll be in Denver. Right? Just, I mean, no offense to Nebraska, but it's like just dead. And most people, when they think of Nebraska, that's what they think of. And they don't realize that Nebraska is beautiful. Parts of Nebraska are gorgeous. They've got mountains and like trails and just beautiful vistas. And that's the part that he's actually in. He's up there in that, what do we call it? Ledge that. The panhandle.
- [38:10]
B
Panhandle thingy.
- [38:11]
A
Panhandle thingy. Walking towards Wyoming. So his family in Wyoming's trying to figure out how to get him. And so Don's calling Uncle John and Aunt Katie and while she's doing that Matt's calling his friends and co workers. Everybody is trying to get someone to go get Chance. So finally dawn gets in touch with Aunt Katie who calls Chase. He doesn't pick up. And this was strange because he always answered her calls. And so she also sent him a couple of follow up text messages. And around the same time, Bailey is trying to decide, I mean, basically one of his co workers, Larry, calls Bailey and says, hey, can you call Chance's parents? So there's a whole bunch of phone tag going on here, a bunch of people calling each other, missing calls and everything else. They're all trying to figure out where Chance is exactly and who's gonna go pick him up. Because right now he's just walking down the road in the general direction of Wyoming, which is not exactly the smartest thing to be doing.
- [39:21]
B
So one thing, there's a flurry of activity in this like 30 minutes. But one thing really sticks out to me. Seemingly the obvious resolution here to tell Chance to come back home. And that's not happening here. And I think that's worth noting because we've already noted that Chance acts like this not infrequently. So those who know him probably know that when he sets his mind to it, when he's in kind of one of these tempers, he's going to continue to walk. There's kind of no point in calling him to say, okay, I'm very sorry, I can tell you're angry. Why don't you turn around and walk back the mile and a half you just walked? Like, let's just cool down and talk about it. We can go home, we'll drive home together. No one in all these, like, telephone tags is attempting to do that. Everyone is trying to figure out who's gonna go get him, which suggests to me that they know it would be futile to try to talk him out of walking until someone picks him up. Certainly it would be futile to go back to where he came from. And second is that they know kind of where this is going to lead, so they kind of expect that he's just going to keep walking until someone picks him up. So I think that's really interesting to me because even though we're looking at this right now and there's all this flurry of activity, it's kind of the one thing that's not suggested that is sticking out to me.
- [40:41]
A
I looked it up because I was curious just to make sure this is, this is accurate. So Kimball, Nebraska is south of Gehring, and Torrington is, is north that's what.
- [40:57]
B
I thought is, was he misleading Bailey? Was he really walking north? And he's like, yeah, I'm going towards Kimball knowing that she has the car. He's obviously on foot. She can overtake him because there's honestly, if you've been to this part of really any part of most towns, there's not that many roads to get from these towns. And so she can overtake him on foot within minutes, really. And so he's making it harder for her to find him is my take on the situation.
- [41:27]
A
That's exactly what he's doing. He is definitely walking north and he's definitely telling her he's walking south.
- [41:33]
B
And again, I think this goes along with the fact that he does that. I think goes along with the flurry of activity that we're seeing, which is that people know once he kind of has put his mind to it, they would probably do more damage. Kind of like Don is like, you know what, if I go, I'm gonna make things worse because they've been in this situation before. Again, that these tempers are something that is not really foreign to his personality. Seeking healthcare isn't always just about physical health. It also impacts how people show up at work, in relationships and with themselves. RO makes it simple to get started on a weight loss journey with their free insurance checker or cash pay options to help people who qualify for medication regain confidence and start feeling like themselves again sooner. GLP1s can be life changing, but they're often perceived as too expensive or out of reach. That's why RO offers more affordable ways to start a GLP one. Whether they check your insurance coverage for free or show you FDA approved cash pay alternatives, they'll ensure you pay the lowest price before you even start. And that's because RO wants to help people lose weight. That's why they have the lowest cost options out there. Whether you're paying with Insurance or cash, Ro's Insurance Checker lets you know if you're covered for GLP1s for free. And if you want to see if you're covered, just submit your insurance card and RO will take care of the rest. No paperwork, no hassle, no waiting on hold. Ro's free insurance checker will send you a comprehensive report of your coverage details so you can make a decision that's right for your goals. Even if you don't have insurance coverage, RO offers cash pay options for more affordable FDA approved GLP1s. These cash pay options ship right to your door. No pharmacy visits required. If you decide to move forward. RO can help you understand if GLP1s are right for you and your goals. But that's just the beginning. When you become a RO member, you'll have support throughout the process. You'll have access to your provider on demand. For any questions, join the over 1 million people who've trusted Roe to check their coverage for free. Find out for yourself. Go to Roe Co Prosecutors for your free insurance check that's Ro Co. To see if your insurance covers GLP1s for free. Go to Roe Co Safety for boxed warning and full safety information about GLP1 medications. Those of you who've been listening to me for a while know that my kids and I live in the pool basically year round, and so having good swimwear is so important to me. Enter Minnow Minnow is a family lifestyle brand that embraces clean lines, simple details and crisp seaside breezes. This year I dressed my entire family in matching Minnow suits. My boys had the boys boardies and my girl had the Rash Guard one piece and they looked incredible. It held up all summer. You can feel the quality of the suits as well soon as you touch them, and all of the styles are fresh and they're playful and they're polished and my kids loved wearing it. This brand was founded almost 10 years ago and it's a reflection of the life and style of its founder, Morgan Smith, who's a mother and entrepreneur from Laguna Beach, California who lives in Charleston, South Carolina. Now, every suit is thoughtfully designed with comfort, performance and protection in mind, and their suits all have UPF 50 plus protection blocking 98% of UVA and UVB rays. The girls rash guard one piece and the unisex Rash Guard shirts are the perfect styles for extra sun coverage. And caring for your product is super easy and it's going to last multiple seasons. Their thoughtful collections allow the whole family to coordinate like my family chose to do, and Minnow has been featured in everything from Vogue to Harper's Bazaar. Go to shopminow.com and enter code Meet Minnow15 at checkout to receive 15% off your first order. That's shopminow.com code meatminow15 for 15% off. Homes.com knows when it comes to home shopping, it's never just about the house or condo. It's about the home. And what makes a home is more than just the house or property. It's the location and neighborhood. If you have kids, it's also schools, nearby, parks and transportation options. That's why homes.com goes above and beyond to bring home shoppers the in depth information they need to find the right home.
- [46:01]
A
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- [46:35]
B
Okay, so we had this flurry of activity. He'd been picking up the phone. He's trying to get a ride too. But then around like, the 7:50 time period, he stops picking up his phone. And now we're kind of entering a new chapter in this timeline. So at 7:51, surveillance footage captures Chance walking northbound in Tarrytown at the intersection of Martha Road and 10th Street. So it appears that he was telling Bailey a lie. He was not, in fact, going south. Of course, he could have been turned around. But the fact that just minutes earlier, he told his best friend Matt that he was walking north and asked for a ride, meaning he'd want to give him the right directions, it seems that that was an intentional lie to Bailey. So surveillance at least confirms that he's walking north. On that footage, you see Chance stop, look down at his phone, and then he makes a sharp 90 degree turn to the left, and he begins heading northwest towards Torrington. In that footage, he doesn't appear intoxicated.
- [47:39]
A
Okay, so I. I mean, I. I feel like this is important. He clearly knows where he's going. He clearly knows where he's going. Like, there's not. He didn't get confused when he was talking to her. You know, he's doing the Google map with the walking, and it's like, you'll be there in 27 days. It's gonna take him to get there. But he's walking to Torrington, I guess, hoping somebody from Wyoming will come and get him. But the one person he is not interested in picking him up is Bailey. And that obviously calls into question her description of their earlier interactions. Because her description of their earlier interactions was, it's fine. We're all good. I was fine. He got into a fight with my family, but that was cool. He wanted to go to Wyoming. I was fine with that. And then he just walks off for no reason. It feels like there's a missing step there.
- [48:28]
B
And the other thing that indicates that there's probably a missing step is if it really was all cool. Doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. Why does the baby need to be passed off to grandma? Unless you think that this will lead to a bigger fight where you really have to go after him because he's gonna keep storming off. But, you know, no big deal, baby can come along if he's like just going to the end of the driveway, be like, hey, come on back in. But if you've been there before or you know that this is one of the bigger fights, pass off three month old baby who probably needs to eat, sleep, all the things to grandma while you deal with the situation. So at 8:30, oh, one thing I wanted to note, when he looks down at his phone, if he's looking at, you know, the 27 days it's gonna take to walk to Torrington, I'd imagine he'd also see that he has missed calls and notifications that he's choosing not to answer. And instead he makes a deliberate turn to the left to say, you know what, forget it, I'm walking. And it may be that it's not the person he wants picking him up, which is Matt or maybe one of Matt's friends. It's family. So maybe he's like, I'm mad at all my family, you know, the in laws, my wife, my mom, my dad. Everyone's just gonna be glommed together. Maybe it's that. Maybe he saw who was calling him and he decided, I can do this myself. So at 8:30, Bailey called Everett around that time and told her, it's fine, don't worry. She and her family were going to go out looking for Chance, but at this point, he's kind of walked off for about an hour and a half. Everett is not close by, so she's just saying, you know, don't worry about it. I just want to keep you updated. But we haven't found him yet. We're gonna go look for him at 8:46. According to Bailey, the last time anyone heard from Chance was at 8:46. Now, it's not clear who he spoke to or how he contacted them. So we're not exactly sure what this 8:46 timestamp is really pointing to. Then at 9:00 o' clock that night, this massive storm rolls in. And there are massive storms in Nebraska. So Bailey and her family, they had to stop the search and they just assumed that Chance would be home before long because he's been angry. But it's been two hours now. Now with this massive storm coming in, he's going to you know, stop walking to home. Which is kind of a ridiculous endeavor. Right. It's 35 miles away. He's not gonna make it that night. He's made his point. He's gonna come back home. And so they go back home. Because this storm is so large now.
- [50:50]
A
Hindsight being 20 20, at this point, you probably should have called the police. You got a guy who's wandering around, walking. This massive storm hits, might not be the worst thing to have the police just like, hey. Even if you don't want to put it as some sort of fight, just like, hey, my husband went for a walk, he hadn't come back, massive storm came through. Can you guys be on the lookout for him? Like see if you find him or whatever. But that's 2020. And he was so angry. If the cops had rolled up on him, that probably would not have made him happy. So I can understand why they didn't do that. You know, I don't know. This is another one of those things where you can see how different sides of the family see these interactions differently. Because you have Bailey calling his family and saying, hey, don't worry about it, we got it right. And I'm sure, why did you try and keep us from going to find our son? Like, what's going on there? Like, you can see how suspicion can arise in a circumstance like this. So storms coming down at 9:00, at 9:08 chances. Aunt Katie, remember Aunt Katie, who he always answers the phone for, who'd send him a bunch of messages? She receives two text messages from his phone. And I want to spend just a little bit of time on these. So one of them was, I'm in an emoji and it's the smiley face emoji, but not smiling with just the straight line mouth. So you guys know what I'm talking about. Like not positive, not frowning, but like.
- [52:27]
B
I mean like kind of a. This isn't great.
- [52:30]
A
Yeah, right. You know, it's hard to say because it's not frowning, but I think of the frowning face as the sad face. The straight line face is more the angry face. Right?
- [52:42]
B
Yeah.
- [52:42]
A
I mean, it's not the angriest of the faces because there is an angry face, but just of the like simpler emojis. I mean, it's like, you know, you're not. Yeah. So you could see that as him responding to her and to be like, look, I know you called, I know I usually call, but this is the feeling I'm in right now. I'm annoyed as someone said, I'm just annoyed and that's why I didn't write you back then. The second one is just a series of letters. I'm going to read them to you. I B D E S E R A L L Y G. Now you can try.
- [53:20]
B
I mean, I've tried to decipher it, but it's clearly a jumbled typo.
- [53:26]
A
Yes. And actually I have a theory about what's going on here that. So at the same time this is going on. So he sends these two messages and about around this time, his phone pings for the last time. So there are two possibilities here. One is he decided to respond to his aunt, who he always responded to. He sends her the one I'm annoyed message. Then he sends I B D E S E R A L L Y G OBDA serology G. He sends that. And that's sort of an accident. That's one possibility. But there's another possibility that could be important in this case. Remember what's happening right now?
- [54:09]
B
A massive storm with rain.
- [54:11]
A
A massive storm with rain. And what happens when your phone gets wet?
- [54:16]
B
You can't type correctly because it's like it's all messed up.
- [54:20]
A
So I think what could have happened here is he wasn't actually attempting to respond to Katie at all. It's just one of the last messages, maybe the last message he got from her. The phone gets wet and it. The rain sort of sends these two, like begins the message to Katie and sends these two messages to Katie. Because if you hold your phone and like splash some water on it, like it will start doing random things because that's one of the ways sort of interaction happens.
- [54:47]
B
I know this because my baby right now loves to lick and chew on my phone. And when his saliva is all over my phone, people get like butt dials from him. It's his mouth, I guess mouth dials and texts get sent all the time, but he doesn't know how to press any buttons. It's really from his saliva. So I have a lot of experience with this right now.
- [55:08]
A
And I always have my phone in the shower with me. I just always what?
- [55:12]
B
That's like so bad for your phone.
- [55:13]
A
Or put my phone down.
- [55:14]
B
So I mean like really bad for your phone.
- [55:16]
A
So my phone will be sitting on the ledge in the shower just in case I need to like take call or something.
- [55:20]
B
Shower, I don't know, disconnect you in 2026, man.
- [55:24]
A
But if I'm like hanging out in the shower, like looking at the news or something, like a lot of Times this will happen, like it'll get a little wet and then like the whole thing gets crazy, right? And you're right, it's probably not the best thing for the phone, but nevertheless, something that can happen. So pouring down rain and his phone stops working. It pings for the last time. And as we're going to see, it's not because like, you know, at that moment he was murdered, because we're going to see him again. So I think it's possible that what's happening here is his phone is, his.
- [55:50]
B
Phone is dying, it's getting deluged with.
- [55:53]
A
Water, it got so wet that it stopped working in the last sort of gasp it had was to send out these two messages. So that's at 908, at 9:45pm the storm stops. So it's been storming for 45 minutes and he's been out in it and he's still on the move because at 10 o', clock, 15 minutes later, his phone stopped pinging. But he's not stopped. He is actually captured on ring doorbell footage walking West Unstable Club Road. And that is going to be the last time anyone sees him.
- [56:39]
B
And what we're seeing from him, I think confirms what I said earlier with all the flurry of activity, why his family and friends were all just looking to get a ride for him and not trying to talk him out of it. He just walked through like a torrential summer midwestern downpour for 45 minutes and he's like still going. In fact, he's probably even more defiant and even more angry because he just had to walk through 45 minutes of torrential downpour and no one came for him. So I feel like the anger is building even then.
- [57:09]
A
No, I agree. And, and, and it's a really good point because one thing we always do in these cases, and we're all guilty of it, is you always try and imagine like putting yourself in that position and then you start to think, why would anyone do this and why would they do that? And I would never do that. And that doesn't make any sense. And it may not from your perspective with your boyfriend or your husband or your son or whatever, but maybe if you know the person really well, something like this, it all begins to fall into line. And I think one thing we know, even from just this brief discussion of him, he's got a big temper, you know, and he gets angry. And people just sort of know when he's angry, he's not going to listen.
- [57:58]
B
And for what it's worth, we're not saying that's bad. I think it makes him a really good rodeo rider and it makes him a really good demolition derby person. Now we're going to see what happens. And this is a lesson that everyone should keep their temper in check. But this is kind of who he is and we're beginning to see where this is going to lead him.
- [58:19]
A
So as we said, this is the last time he is going to be seen. Next week we're going to talk about some of the things that happened afterwards and some things that in the wake of his disappearance, cast a lot of suspicion on his wife. And we're going to talk about some theories in this case and then we're going to talk about a break that actually happened this year. And with the benefit of that breakthrough, reevaluate a lot of the things we've said and a lot of things that have been said about this case. And I think it'll be interesting having more information than we typically have in the disappearance to just see how maybe some of the things and the assumptions that we had and the rabbit trails, rabbit holes, whatever we started going down maybe weren't as accurate as they appeared to be before we had more information. All right, Alice, do you want to ask a question?
- [59:13]
B
I have lots of questions to ask, but I'll also answer some.
- [59:16]
A
Okay, that's right. We typically answer questions. So I asked them, as we've said before and as many of you know, if you leave a five star review on really anything, I think a lot of people, if you leave a five star review on Spotify, often just email us questions. But if you leave a five star review, you can ask a question and we will answer them here on the podcast. Let's see. Okay. Jess in Spain wants to know what we do in our free time.
- [59:47]
B
This. This is our free time. Seriously, this is our free time.
- [59:54]
A
I play the piano now and I'm now a pianist.
- [59:56]
B
Look at you. Congratulations. Your five year old is a genius for teaching you how to play piano.
- [60:02]
A
She's done a great job. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes after everybody goes to sleep, I'll just play the piano because that's the.
- [60:07]
B
Only time I know. I know.
- [60:09]
A
Of course, whenever I start to play it, she wants to play it, which.
- [60:11]
B
Is good, but it, you know, they always want to play with what you're playing with. I played the piano, I think much to the chagrin of Mr. Alice who might be listening right now. And he's probably laughing because sometimes the music overtakes you and I just have to abandon the kids. And they're, like, screaming in the background. I'm like, mom's got to play.
- [60:31]
A
My wife complains all the time because the baby will be crying, the kids will be whatever. And I'm just playing the piano. And she's like. And I'm like, what?
- [60:38]
B
The music's in here's got to do.
- [60:39]
A
What a man's got to do. Exactly.
- [60:41]
B
Exactly.
- [60:41]
A
Spirit has moved me. I got to.
- [60:44]
B
Especially right now because it's like a way. It's a crowd control mechanism. Because I'll play songs that they know. Like, Christmas songs are very crowd pleasers. Right? And so I'll be like, okay, let's play Guess the song. Everyone stops crying.
- [60:57]
A
They're like, there you go.
- [60:57]
B
Is it Jingle Bells? I'm like, I don't know. Gotta listen.
- [61:00]
A
There you go. I love it. Okay, so we didn't have much of an answer that we really don't. We will have free time, so. All right, so Daphne wants to know, did you and I click immediately or did it take a while to become friends? I still don't really like Alice.
- [61:21]
B
I don't. I would actually love to hear what you thought of me first, because I'll tell you what I thought of you first.
- [61:27]
A
I mean, my opinion of you was always that you were like a ray of sunshine. I just thought you were so. You were so positive and optimistic. And I always made me happy to see you because you were always smiling. So that was sort of my introduction to you. And I was like. And, you know, you want to be around people, even if you were actually miserable and you hated me and everybody else. Like, you want to be around people who project positivity. And you definitely projected positivity. So I was always.
- [61:53]
B
Well, that's very nice. I don't know if that's really what you thought of me, but that's absolutely.
- [61:57]
A
What I thought of.
- [61:57]
B
So it wasn't you specifically, but if you remember, our team was me and, like, I don't know, five or six guys. And you guys all knew each other. You'd all been friends in the past. It's not just the lady thing. It's that you guys were all friends, and you guys all sat in one room where you treated it like a frat house in the sense that it stank. You guys never took out the trash. You had your. Not you. I'm lumping you in. I'm describing the scene for everyone. Several people. I'm not going to name names because everyone is now in high positions of power. Would always, for example, be Sitting there with their socks, you know, like no shoes. But they. You know, we worked a lot, so no one had changed in a while. So there was, like, a stench to the room. And you guys were always laughing about people you knew at Harvard who. I had no idea who they were. So I was like, who are these jokers? I don't know anything. And it's not like you were joking about famous people from Harvard. It was like some obscure 1L that you guys both knew.
- [63:05]
A
I just want to point out I had my own office. That was the war room. And I would just. You did.
- [63:09]
B
You did have your own office.
- [63:10]
A
Office, yes.
- [63:10]
B
I'm describing the scene.
- [63:12]
A
They had good snacks, so we had.
- [63:14]
B
We. It was awesome. And look, that whole team became, like, best friends.
- [63:18]
A
Let's walk through that team. Because you're right.
- [63:21]
B
So, like, you had all these positions.
- [63:23]
A
Of power who were stinky and, like, awesome.
- [63:27]
B
And look, we did the impossible.
- [63:29]
A
One of them is a federal. Is a tax court judge.
- [63:32]
B
Tax court judge.
- [63:33]
A
Two of them are two of the appeals court judges. Federal appeals court.
- [63:39]
B
Not just like on the 9th Circuit. They can overturn.
- [63:44]
A
One of whom gets cited by the Supreme Court all the time.
- [63:46]
B
It's true.
- [63:47]
A
And the other two are partners at law firms.
- [63:50]
B
And then there's us. So let me be clear. I didn't not like you guys. It was just a lot to walk into on the first day because it was like, no shoes, lot of old pizza boxes, people throwing, like, actual binders that could, like, give you a. You know, not on your head across the room. Because we were passing documents back and forth like, the News was on 24 7. And then, like, the Senate House votes were on as well. And they were like, there's a cacophony of sounds from the TVs, and none of it was turned down. And then someone would watch, and he'd be like, remember Joe Smith from Harvard? I was like, what is happening?
- [64:34]
A
Well, I mean, I had such a positive view.
- [64:38]
B
I'm not saying it wasn't positive. Explaining the chaos in which I was introduced to you.
- [64:44]
A
I see.
- [64:45]
B
So I don't think I really separated you from the mass of, like, six guys that I walked into for a little bit of time. But then I'll tell you when we really bonded is when you jumped out of a. No, when you. When we had to deliver something by, like, midnight and we drove your car, and I was like, how are we going to deliver this in time? Because it's like a minute away. And you're like, don't worry. About it. And then you drove on the lawn, where by now, we probably would have been shot at, because we were driving across, like, federal lands that had the, like, no one can drive on. It's not like, just then you couldn't drive on. There were, like, the. One of the chain links, and you just drove past, like, all these cones, and I didn't have my seatbelt on, and I was like, are we allowed to drive on federal lands like this?
- [65:32]
A
And then I just left you in the car.
- [65:33]
B
No, no, no, no, no, no. You said, here, take the wheel. And then you jumped out of the car while it was not at a complete stop. And I had to, like, hike my leg over and go to the driver's seat because I was like, I'm driving the car now. And that really happened.
- [65:49]
A
And we got it done.
- [65:50]
B
We didn't. We got it done. You got it done because you ran. I've never seen you run that fast. Well, I was sitting there thinking, he just broke a lot of laws, and he left me holding the bag, and someone's gonna come knocking on the window, and they're gonna be like, ma', am, you've broken all of the laws, and you're gonna be watching from across the federal lands saying, yeah, you're in trouble now. That's what I was afraid of.
- [66:16]
A
The one thing that I had going for, I got things done. I was a get. I got things done.
- [66:21]
B
You got things done.
- [66:22]
A
And occasionally, it required taking some risks. Risky, yes.
- [66:29]
B
Some risks, shall we say, taking some risks.
- [66:31]
A
But I always got things done.
- [66:33]
B
So that was mission impossible. There was no way back then.
- [66:38]
A
You got it done.
- [66:39]
B
There was no way that could have been delivered on time. And yet you got it done. And the best part, I remember you jumped out of the car. I remember this vividly because you left the door open. I didn't know you that well. I didn't know whose car this was. All I knew was we were in the. Like, I can see Capitol police coming towards me. And you're like, just wait for me. And I was like, do I drive off? Like, I don't know him that well? Do I leave him or wait for the police to get here? We didn't have a drop place. Like, you weren't going to come back to the same place. So I, like, closed the door because you left it hanging open. I locked it, and I couldn't reach the pedals because you're, like, a foot taller than me. And I couldn't figure out how to work your car. So I was like, I can't really drive this car away because it's not, you know, fit for me. I can barely see over the wheel. It was great. I had a lot of fun then. And then I was like, okay, we're friends now.
- [67:24]
A
These are the kind of. These are the kind of. These are the kind of memories on which one builds a podcast. So, you know, there you go. All right, well, if you have questions about anything, including all that, feel free to leave a five star review. If you have thoughts on this case or anything else, shoot us an email prosecutors pod gmail.com@ ProsecutorsPod for all your social media. Join us on the gallery where I'm sure we'll be discussing this case and all other cases. If you want to see us record these episodes for as little as $3 a month, you can do so. And you can join the chat, which is having a great time about this discussion. Or if you have no interest in seeing us record these episodes, but you hate ads. Once again, for as little as $3 a month, you can get the episodes early and ad free. All right, Alice, before we sign off for today, is there anything else you want to add?
- [68:19]
B
I've already said too much. I just talked about us breaking the law.
- [68:23]
A
It was a long time ago, so it's all good. All right, guys, well, we'll be back next week with the conclusion of this story. But until then, happy New Year. I'm Brett.
- [68:36]
B
And I'm Alice.
- [68:37]
A
And we are the prosecutors.
- [69:00]
B
Lord, has my sound been better when I turned it up, down?
- [69:03]
A
That's been great to me, I guess.
- [69:05]
B
All right.
- [69:08]
A
Hello, everyone. Hello. Time to start 2026.
- [69:16]
B
I can't believe it. That's not even real. You know yesterday when you're like, let's get started with the new year. I was like, so far away. I'm like, it's two weeks away.
- [69:24]
A
Yeah, it's not that far away.
- [69:25]
B
Two weeks away.
- [69:27]
A
Yeah. That's the thing about New Year's is they always feel so. It's like, wow, that's.
- [69:31]
B
It's next year and it's next year.
- [69:33]
A
I didn't worry about that. Are said to clear my third.
- [70:40]
B
You sound. You sound great.
- [70:42]
A
Oh, thank you. Thank you. All right, here we go. I don't know why it's like, maybe it's cuz it's 2026.
- [70:50]
B
Are you feeling nervous?
- [70:51]
A
Feel a little like, mess up the intro.
- [71:04]
B
Sam. Pluto TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows. This is the mindset. Free. This is the mantra, free. This is with movies like Joe dirt pixels and 51st days. This is awesome. And TV show shows like Survivor, SpongeBob SquarePants, the Fairly Odd Parents, and Ghosts. Pluto TV is always free. Huzzah. Pluto TV stream now pay. Never.
- [72:06]
A
You're welcome.