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- [00:02]
Brett
Yep, he's planning another project. So this Father's Day at Lowe's, tap into free gifts for dad. Get a free Select Craftsman Power Tool when you buy a Craftsman V20 charger with 2amp hour and 4amp hour batteries. Plus get a free Dewalt power tool when you buy a select 20 volt max XR 4amp hour battery kit. Dad knows our best lineup is here at Lowe's valid through 714, while supplies last selection varies by location. Insurance isn't one size fits all, and shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressives Name youe Price Tool for years. With the Name youe Price Tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they show you options that fit your budget enough. Hunting for discounts, trying to calculate rates, and tinkering with coverages. Maybe you're picking out your very first policy. Or maybe you're just looking for something that works better for you and your family. Either way, they make it simple to see your options. No guesswork, no surprises. Ready to see how easy and fun shopping for car insurance can be? Visit progressive.com and give the Name your price Tool a try. Take the stress out of shopping and find the coverage that fits your life on your terms. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates Price and Coverage Match limited by state law he gave me a book on art forgery. I found myself drawn to these old masters. How did these artists take paint from
- [01:29]
Alice
a palette, arrange it on a canvas?
- [01:33]
Brett
I began to unlock the secrets. I was a storehouse of knowledge of how to create an illusion, present it to a experienced expert, manipulate his mind and convince him, and bring him to the inevitable conclusion that the painting is genuine. We flooded the market with my paintings and I couldn't believe what I did. I couldn't believe it. Then the dominoes started falling and eventually the FBI were led to my door. They uncovered a mountain of evidence against me, but they never actually got you. At this point, you've sold a lot. You've got like a million dollars in cash. You sold one painting for 717,000. Why did it go away? Why did you never get indicted? And how are we having this conversation? I guess that's the greatest story of all. To hear how Ken Parenti made millions in art forgery, dodged the Mafia and the FBI. Subscribe to the Jordan Harbinger show and check out episode 282 in Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever. You're listening now. Foreign. I'm brett. And I'm alice and we are the prosecutors. Today on the Prosecutors, a young Navajo girl disappears from her home in New Mexico. The strange phone call a year after has led many to believe she may still be alive. Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of the Prosecutors. I'm Brett and I'm joined as always by my deluvele co host, Alice.
- [04:01]
Alice
Well, the. Thank you.
- [04:02]
Brett
Duh. Thank you.
- [04:03]
Alice
I have no idea what that is, but I will take lovely in any form.
- [04:07]
Brett
You know, it's not a real word, but that's from Joshua. So apparently I, I. Did you watch American Dad?
- [04:15]
Alice
Is that the, like over the Hill or King of the Hill? People made it.
- [04:21]
Brett
No, it's the ones who made Futurama.
- [04:24]
Alice
No, it's cartoon.
- [04:26]
Brett
It's the one. Oh, God, I can't.
- [04:28]
Alice
It's an adult cartoon.
- [04:29]
Brett
It's Family Guy. It's the same people who made Family Guy.
- [04:31]
Alice
Okay. That's right, it is. I've watched Family Guy. I've not watched American Dad.
- [04:35]
Brett
Well, he. I don't know, he made up the word delovely in an episode and Joshua just thought that was the most. Josh just decided that was the coolest word ever.
- [04:44]
Alice
It is a great word.
- [04:45]
Brett
So he thinks you're Delovely.
- [04:46]
Alice
I thank you.
- [04:48]
Brett
Yeah. There you go. Anyways. Okay, well, that's the last bit of fun we're gonna have. You know, these cases, Alice, I guess this is the problem. We've said this before. We're doing true crime. You just come across these cases that are absolutely tragic. This is gonna be one of them. We're dealing with a disappearance of a young girl and frankly, just some things that were going on in her home that or disturbing and make you question exactly what happened in this case. This is going to be one where we're going to play some audio. It's going to be tough to listen to, but I think it's worth doing because we don't know what happened to this young girl and we want to find her. So that's why we're telling this story today.
- [05:29]
Alice
So who we're talking about today is Anthonette, Christine Cayadito. So Anthonette was born on Christmas Day, 1976. People who are born on Christmas Day, just in general, have a soft place in my heart because you have to share your birthday with a, you know, Jesus's birthday. My mom was actually born on Christmas Day.
- [05:47]
Brett
Really?
- [05:48]
Alice
Yeah. And so I don't know anyone who's born on Christmas Day. Probably because, you know, you have one mom. You always Think of everything surrounds your mom. I just love everyone who's born on Christmas Day.
- [05:57]
Brett
I like how you win till you share with Jesus birthday. My thought was you only get one set of presents. I don't know what that says about us.
- [06:04]
Alice
That. That too, but. But my point being, you should, you know, if you're gonna share it with Jesus birthday. Jesus's birthday usually, at least in the rest of the world, probably takes up more celebration than the individual. So I always celebrated my mom twice, obviously Christmas and then her birthday. But this is not going to be the only reason Anthonette is going to just stick with you. You'll see very soon. Why so Anthonette was the daughter of Penny Cayadito and. And Larry Estrada. She was part Navajo on her mom's side, and her father was of Italian descent. Anthonette's parents separated when she was young, with Penny acting as her primary caregiver. She grew up in Gallup, New Mexico, right on the edge of a Navajo reservation with her mother, Penny, and her two younger half sisters, Sadie and Wendy. Anthonette was described as smart, sweet, and very responsible. She was a great older sister, often tasked with watching Sadie and Wendy while her mother worked a task which she took great care in. Her sisters remember her as almost a second mother, often taking responsibility for household chores and even preparing meals. And we're not talking about like a 16 year old taking care of her young half sisters. No. At the time of the story we're about to tell, Anthonette was just nine years old. And she was a fourth grader and at Lincoln Elementary School.
- [07:29]
Brett
Yeah. So, you know, some of y' all have been in this situation. You got to grow up fast when life's tough. And obviously she had a single mother and she was having to take a lot of responsibility in the home. So let's talk about April 5, 1986. So Penny Cayedito leaves her three daughters home with a babysitter and goes to a local bar with some friends. Now, one thing I want to know. Over the years, the validity of this story has been questioned. Whether or not there was actually a babysitter. I think almost certainly there was not. And one thing that this sort of hints for you, a lot of unreliable narration in this story. We're going to tell you the story as it's been told. But just know not everything you're hearing is probably true. And that goes for things that you hear from her mother as well. So this is probably a circumstance where the girls were left at home. And Anthonette was taking care of them. And this was often the case.
- [08:30]
Alice
So at midnight, Penny arrives home and the babysitter leaves, as is her story. When she gets home, Penny puts Wendy and Sadie to bed in her bedroom, but Anthonette stays up. She said that she and Anthonette stayed up talking and playing cards until roughly 3am per Sadie. It was unusual for Anthonette to stay up this late already.
- [08:52]
Brett
Weird, right? I mean, from the very beginning of this story, you got the babysitter that probably didn't exist and now you've got this nine year old staying up until three o' clock in the morning, playing cards with her mom, very stressed after.
- [09:06]
Alice
Mom has probably went to the bar to have drinks. And usually, I mean, people do come home and continue to party, but a lot of people come home after a night at the bar to crash, to crash out, to go to sleep. You know, because they've had their drinks, they come home and they go to sleep. And so yeah, I would say that part of her story is true, that it's unusual for Anthonette to stay up until 3am Most nine year olds, most people don't stay up till 3am well, Penny says around 3am she falls asleep and all three of her daughters are in bed with her. Sometime after Penny fell asleep, Sadie reported hearing someone knocking at the door. She said that she heard a man's voice outside, but no one responded or opened the door.
- [09:45]
Brett
Now what's interesting about this is you're already thinking, okay, we got a mystery here. Was there a knock on the door? If there was a knock on the door, who was it? Is this possibly someone who's going to be involved in the story? Crazy thing about this, we know exactly who this is. So the police are going to end up interviewing a man named Roger. And Roger recalled knocking on the door and windows at around 3:30am According to his story, he had been at the bar with Penny and they had got into some sort of fight and he wanted to check on her. Now a couple things about this story already. Penny gets home, according to her, at midnight. Now I say according to her recall, we're only really hearing from Penny. Anthonette's the oldest. The other two girls are very young. It's not clear to me whether they were even necessarily awake at midnight when Penny supposedly arrived home. She then tells a story about staying up until 3am with Anthonette. I think the more likely story is she got home around 3am I think the more likely story is she got home around 3am, puts the girls in her bed, or they're already in her bed. And then Roger shows up around 3:30. That makes a lot more sense. We had a fight in the bar. 30 minutes later I'm knocking on your door. Not, we had a fight in the bar at 11:30. You went home and then four hours later I'm knocking on your door. I think probably Penny got home a lot later than she says.
- [11:18]
Alice
And I would even gander to say she got home very close in time to when he. Because she probably stormed out and he probably followed her and it was short. Shortly after that, he's knocking on the door. Otherwise, if you had a fight and and then show up at someone's house in the middle of night, four hours later, banging on the door, I would think you're here to like, kill me, right? Like that's not a friendly sort of situation. But there's no reason really to doubt him because he's saying, yeah, I was there knocking on the door.
- [11:42]
Brett
Now, I truly believe these are lies for the reasons we said. Are they significant? I don't know. But it goes back to the who can you believe in this story? And you're going to see that as this continues. Anyways, Roger says he knocked on the door, he knocked on the windows, nobody answered. He leaves and he goes to stay with a friend down the street. And the friend will confirm this story, says Roger basically showed up around 3:45 or so and slept on his couch. So it seems like Roger's telling the truth. Maybe now Sadie will say that when she heard this knocking, her mom told them all just to ignore it and it would go away. Now, what's interesting though, is not that knocking, it's the knocking that came next. Because sometimes later, Sadie, who remember is the younger sister, she hears this knocking again at the door. Now, she doesn't know exactly when this is. She just knows it happened sometime later. And this time Anthonette got up to see who was there. Sadie falls back asleep. She has no idea what happened after this. She just knows that Anthonette is going to go to the door. Now, this is what she tells the police at the time. In a later interview, she will say that she does not recall this event, though interestingly, Wendy, who was also one of the younger sisters, says she does remember it and it did happen. I'm not saying Sadie's lying. Now. This was a very long time ago. 1986 is when this happened. And people forget things and they forget things that seem like they should be absolutely critical. We see that in a Lot of true crime stories. But I think given what Wendy says and given what Sadie said at the time, this second knock on the door did happen.
- [13:35]
Alice
So now it brings us to a few Hours later, about 6:30 or 7 in the morning. An elderly woman who lived next door to the Cayuditos later told police that she saw an older model brown truck or van with New Mexico plates outside penny's home. Around 6:30 or 7 in the morning. She saw a man exit the truck and go up to the Cayedito's door. At the time the neighbor didn't think much of this because it was common for people to be coming and going from the Cayedito home at all hours. That itself, by the way, tells you a little bit something about the home life here as well. Another neighbor corroborates this story and I
- [14:13]
Brett
just want to touch on what Alice said. Look, there's nothing wrong with having a lot of people visit your home, being very friendly, being whatever, but certainly means there's a lot of potential suspects here. There's a lot of potential people who are coming and going from that home who might have taken some sort of interest in one of the girls and could possibly be a suspect. And because there are people coming and going, it's very difficult for us to say who any of these people are. So to even check on them or narrow a list of suspects down is going to be very difficult for the police though as you'll see, as typical, the police don't really care. Okay, so that's around 6:30 or 7:00am this could have coincided with what Sadie heard. Remember Sadie hears this, so does Wendy, but it's one of those things that they're not staying awake. They wake up and go back to sleep. They have no idea what time it is. So this could be the same incident or it could be a different incident. Around 7am though, we know that Penny wakes up and she's going to get the girls ready for a Bible study. Both Wendy and Sadie are still in bed, but Anthonette is not. So Penny goes around the rest of the house. She's looking for Anthonette, but she can't find her anywhere. So at this point Penny takes her two daughters and they start to sort of fan out and look around the neighborhood. And they sort of stop at various places that they knew Anthonette would frequent, her favorite spots around the neighborhood, but they're not seeing anything. So then they start to knock on neighbors doors. These neighbors are going to help with the search. And Penny notes a couple Things. She notes that Anthonette's shoes and coat are still at the house, which means it's unlikely that she just walked out on her own. You would think she would at least put on her shoes. But one thing that was missing was the nightgown that she had been wearing. It was nowhere to be found, so it's likely she's still wearing it. This may conjure images of Asha Degree walking out in her nightgown, though here, unlike in that case, it seems like there was someone at the house at some point that may have led to this departure.
- [16:21]
Alice
So at 11am, Penny reports Anthonette missing to the Gallup PD. So she says that she woke up at 7. That's when she noticed. So this is about four hours later. Now, obviously we're talking about a nine year old girl. If you wake up and she's not there, this is not a situation where you wait for her to come back, for example, from the bar she's supposed to be home. Now Penny is told she has to wait eight hours before filing a missing person's report. Again, what I just said, generally, maybe the police did tell her that, and they probably did. That's bs. I mean, I'm sorry if I wake up and my child's not there. I don't care if it's been eight hours or eight minutes, I'm running to the police.
- [16:58]
Brett
Yeah. And we, and especially these older cases, I mean, I would say, and I think it's true, I don't think the police would tell you this now. I think opinions have really changed about this now. I would hope they wouldn't, but these older stories, you hear this all the time. 8 hours, 24 hours. And there are circumstances when we talked about West Memphis, 3, and the boys are out and it's getting dark and the police officer's like, well, give it an hour. Give it 45 more minutes or so, and if they don't come back, call the police. That makes a little bit more sense. Three boys out playing, it's getting dark. I mean, probably don't need to make a big deal out of this yet, but as Alice said, your daughter is not in her bed or anywhere to be found in the morning. You don't need to wait eight hours to start investigating, but they do. And in fact, they don't really start looking until the next day.
- [17:48]
Alice
So remember, Penny is separated from Anthonette's father. So Anthonette lives with mom Penny full time. Penny at this point, when she reports to Gallup PD that Anthonette is missing. She calls Anthonette's father and tells him, hey, she's gone. The next day, April 7, Gallup PD began an official investigation into Anthonette's disappearance. Again, basically a full day after she is gone. She. If she likely disappeared sometime in that between 3:30 and 7:00am time period, the next day, Gallopedy's like, well, she hasn't shown up. I guess we should start looking. So they begin by interviewing Penny, Wendy, and Sadie, of course, her family members, who she was asleep with at this time, and they search the home. Initially, Sadie told investigators about the two knocks she heard, and Penny claimed she hadn't heard them at all. But she told police that Anthonette never would have answered the door for a stranger. And this is interesting because we have that neighbor, of course, who says that there are lots of people who come to this house, but not just come to this house, come to this house all times of the day. Because I'll say this. Maybe I'll answer the door for you, Brett, at 3:00am like, if I saw you, I'd be like, oh, my gosh, like, someone's died. Maybe I'll let you in. But even if I saw someone I knew, like, I knew socially or even vaguely, and they came and knocked on my door at 3am I don't know that I'd answer the door. Like, I might be like, you okay? What do you need before I open my door to them?
- [19:11]
Brett
Yeah, the last time anybody knocked on my door at an unusual hour, I literally had the shotgun with me while I'm talking to them through the door. Like, I would not be opening the door for anyone. But, I mean, she's a young girl. But I also think the language here could be important for a stranger. What is a stranger? What exactly does that mean? If there's a lot of people coming in and out of this house, there may be a lot of people that Anthonette just knows. If that person shows up, you answer the door for them. So I don't know how much this tells us, really. Now, we do know that nothing in the apartment indicated any sign of forced entry, no sign of a struggle. They found that none of Anthonette's clothing was missing other than the pink nightgown she had been wearing. Penny told law enforcement that she locked both the front door and the screen door in front of it. But when she woke up in the morning, she found both unlocked. And authorities believed this was evidence that Anthonette did indeed know her captor. Now, one thing that's good so they move slowly initially, but immediately upon this conversation they contact the state police and they contact the FBI and they get their assistance. So the initial move was slow. Once they started moving, they did the right thing. And so at this point there's a multi agency search that begins and it lasts until Wednesday, April 9. The search radius spanned about 25 miles, which covers the entire town of Gallup and its surroundings.
- [20:46]
Alice
And they don't find her. A few days passed, four days after her disappearance and after a lot of relatives were urging. Penny tells police that her friend Amelia Emo showed up to the house while Penny was getting ready to go out the night of the disappearance and, and brought Anthonette flowers and a necklace. Again, she's a nine year old girl. Necklace, jewelry, unless it's like a candy necklace. Interesting because you would think flowers and necklaces jewelry is a typically romantic move. So note that Anthonette didn't bring this up when she reported four hours after Anthonette was found missing or even for four days. And she only really reported it because a bunch of relatives were like, you have got to tell the police this. You have got to tell them about Emilio and, and what he did the night before anthonette disappeared in 2024. This is 38 years after the disappearance. Sadie confirmed this with reporter Crystal Gutierrez. Sadie said that she did remember Emo coming over and giving gifts to Anthonette. Anthonette sat on his lap and they talked for a while. Now this is of course she was young at this time. Sadie was very, very young. She was just a child. And, and she's remembering this 38 years later. But she says she does remember Emo coming over and spending a lot of time with Anthonette.
- [22:07]
Brett
This is really bad. I mean this is really bad. So you've got Emo, who is a friend of her mother, same age bracket as her mother, coming over the night she disappears, giving her inappropriate gifts, having her sit on his lap. And mom neglects to tell the police this for four days, be generous and say three days. That is like you talk about just blaring alarms here. I mean this is today. I mean maybe in 1986 people wouldn't recognize this, but I would think, I would think so. I mean today this is like grooming.
- [22:46]
Alice
I mean the fact that the relatives urged her to say it means that it's weird for her not to have said it.
- [22:51]
Brett
And I also know Crystal Gutierre has done a lot of reporting on this case. You can find her stuff on YouTube, should check it out. She's got some good stuff on this disappearance, but, yeah, I mean, not great. So move forward to April 11, 1986. So the police bring in Ronald Perry. Ronald Perry is Penny's best friend. And they interview him, and he tells them that he actually introduced Emo to Penny and that he was with Emo when he went by the house to bring Anthonette the flowers. So Sadie will later tell Crystal Gutierrez that while Ronald had been with Emo every other time he had come to the house. On that specific occasion, when Emo brought the flowers, he came alone. And it is worth noting that according to official reports, neither Ronald nor Emo ever came by Penny's house again after the disappearance.
- [23:48]
Alice
Which is interesting, especially if Ronald is Penny's best friend.
- [23:52]
Brett
Exactly.
- [23:53]
Alice
Fast forward now a couple months. This is not good, right? We've always said every minute is precious, but when you're going two months with a complete cold case, we haven't found any sign of Anthonette. This is not good. So. June 2, 1986, police arrested Wesley Daniels after several children in Anthonette's neighborhood reported that he'd been talking to them about picnics and sexually assaulting them. Wesley was seen in Anthonette's neighborhood the day of her disappearance and did apparently have a picnic that same day. But Wesley targeted boys, and the children who were with him that day said Anthonette was not with them. So that lead went nowhere. He's just another sexual predator of children in the neighborhood, her neighborhood. We always say this, guys. The number of sexual predators out there in close proximity is shocking. Don't go look it up. It will terrify you. You will never want to go outside or let any of your children ever leave the house again. This, you would think, would be like, oh, my gosh, we got the guy. No. Nope, not her type. He likes boys. And he did, in fact, have a picnic. The picnic that he tries to entice you to come to saying that he's going to sexually assault you there. He did have one of those. Anthonette wasn't there, though. We know this because other kids were there.
- [25:07]
Brett
Hopefully they at least arrested him for everything else for that. Yeah. Yeah, hopefully. We're just like, oh, okay, just different.
- [25:14]
Alice
That's a different prosecutor's episode.
- [25:16]
Brett
Oh, man. Yeah, you're right. And I don't want to scare people because the fact remains, and this is even worse now, this is going to help, not scare you, that the people most likely to abuse your children and the people closest to you. So stranger danger. Strangers can be dangerous, but typically it happens closer to the home. But it's just a fact that there are a lot of sexual predators living near you right now, and these cases always confirm that. Now look, if you're listening to this case and if you've listened to most cases that we cover, disappearances, things like this, you are probably thinking it is likely that unfortunately Anthonette did not survive past that first night. And the statistics will tell you that unfortunately, most children who are abducted are killed very soon after their abduction. But something happens on April 12, 1987 which throws all of this case into confusion and makes it stand out as a possible real outlier and maybe in some ways one that despite the fact this happened 40 years ago, there may actually be some hope.
- [26:31]
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- [31:42]
Brett
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- [32:41]
Brett
Gallup PD on April 12, 1987, received a 42nd phone call from someone claiming to be Anthonet. Here's what it says. The caller says, I'm Anthonet. I'm Anthonette Cayedito. I'm in Albuquerque. The operator says, okay, whereabout in Albuquerque? Then you hear a man screaming in the background who said you could use the phone? The operator says, hello. Then you can hear the girl screaming. The operator says, anthonette, where are you? Anthonette? Hello? And at that point, the call ends. Unfortunately, at the time, because the call was only 40 seconds long, police were not able to trace it. Penny listened to the call and she believed it was the Anthonette's voice.
- [33:27]
Alice
Okay, I have a practical question. If you're in Albuquerque, how do you call the Gallup pd?
- [33:32]
Brett
It's a great question, Alice. If you were In Albuquerque in 1986, how would you call the Gallup PD?
- [33:38]
Alice
Because and I actually, this is okay. This is not an ad, by the way. Mrs. Brett's the greatest friend you'll ever have. Don't befriend her, because then it will take time away that I get to spend with her. But she got me a tin can phone, which, again, not an ad. We paid good money for this stuff. It's one of those, like, old school phones that's wired, and it's awesome. And I literally set it up today. Like, it's right here with me. Tin can phone.
- [34:03]
Brett
Oh, there it is.
- [34:04]
Alice
But one of the things I set up on it today is to call 91 1, because otherwise, it's like a subscription service. The whole point is to protect your children. They can only get phone calls from people who you program their numbers into, because, like we just said, there's lots of sexual predators out there. And the thing is, I can program this phone to call 911, because 911 is a nationwide system. Anyone can call 911. You don't have to put an area code in, right? You don't have to put in 202 if you're in Connecticut. And then 911. No, not at all. 512 Austin area code, then 911. No, because 911 is a nationwide system. Today it is. But in 1987, when this call happened, 911 was not a nationwide system. That means whoever made this call would have had to know the phone number to the Gallup pd. And remember, we don't have Google, so
- [34:52]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
you can't just jump on and say,
- [34:53]
Alice
you know, what's Gallup PD's number? You might have a Yellow pages. But some people believe that because you have to know the number to Gallup pd. This gives way to the fact that this call was legitimate, because children in Gallup would have likely memorized some phone number for, like, a local police station station, or they would know to look for that number. And it's not a random police station they called. Right. This is the right police station. This is her hometown police station. So if she is in Albuquerque, she would have had to memorize that number. Or this phone call came in Gallup.
- [35:29]
Brett
Also a possibility.
- [35:30]
Alice
Also a possibility. So the police. Even though this call is 40 seconds long, the police have only released 22 seconds of this call to the public. And although the caller claims to be in Albuquerque, it's later revealed that the call did originate in Gallup. Now, why would the person. Because, remember, the person who says it's Albuquerque is the caller who identifies herself as Anthodet.
- [35:54]
Brett
She May have no idea where she is.
- [35:56]
Alice
She may have no idea. She may have been told that she was in Albuquerque or whatever it is. So we have the 22 seconds of the 40 second call that's been made public, and we are going to play it now.
- [36:08]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Police department.
- [36:10]
Brett
Hello? Okay. Whereabouts in Albuquerque?
- [36:20]
Alice
You said he could use a horse.
- [36:22]
Brett
Hello? Antoinette? Where are you? Antoinette? What are your thoughts about that, Alice?
- [36:34]
Alice
So the voice coming through does sound like a young girl. All of that is very suspect to me because she immediately starts screaming. I would think that this is 1987. So it's been a year since she's been missing. That you survive a year. This is her. You would have survived a year by being incredibly savvy, keeping your head down, probably not making a lot of missteps to draw the ire of your kidnapper. But she's talking loudly into it. It's not a whisper. She's not speaking in code. She's breathless. She would have been 10 at this time. So still a very young child. Can't think about all the things you're going to do. I just think you would have had a year to think about how you would do this. And it seems very rushed and hurried and also not the way I would expect a kidnapper. Like, I'm not sure it. All of it strikes me as very strange in the way she was able to get the phone call, what she says and then how it ends, which is her screaming at the top of her lungs. But she would have had a year to think about it. Like, again, you're 10 years old. But I think I would have screamed. Like the address?
- [37:38]
Brett
Yeah. I mean, I just think. I don't know what I do. I think it could just be this was her one desperate opportunity, and she took it and very quickly was uncovered and she screamed because she was terrified of what was about to happen. It's possible this is a hoax. Of course that's a possibility. People do terrible things. Hoaxes happen. We've seen that a lot. That's a possibility. So it's like a sick prank call. And that's because it does happen very quickly. She says her name a couple times. Then very quickly, the kidnappers on top. Who said you could use the phone. Right. And then the screaming and the hanging up. So it could be a hoax. It could absolutely be legitimate. I think there's any question it could be legitimate. One problem I have is Penny is our verifier for the voice. I don't trust Penny for a lot of reasons. In one Possibility is that this is kind of a cover up. It's a year later. But if for some reason, say she were dead, and for some reason, you think the police are getting close, you could do a phone call like this, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, she's still alive. You know, like some people in Savannah Guthrie's mom's case, where some people speculate that the ransom notes are all intended to make it seem like she's still alive and she's really been dead for a while. It's just a. It's an attempt to sort of throw off the scent. That's a possibility as well. I mean, it could be a hoax. It could be real. It could be something like that. I don't know. It's hard to say. I wish there was someone else who could confirm the voice. But I tend. And maybe this is the optimist in me. I guess this is optimistic. I tend to think it's real. I tend to think this is legit. But I mean, it's obviously, it's impossible to say.
- [39:38]
Alice
There's like, no way we can know. Like, that's why I'm like, I want to believe it. The odds of her getting a phone, remembering the gallupedy number, and she's been dreaming it for a year to like, barely get it out and then scrap, like, my gu. You know, to say, who could use this phone? Was she in the house or were they, like, at a gas station? You know, where she, like, grabs a phone or something like that? I don't know. But the way she's breathless, it's really good acting. And it sounds like a child, which is why I think it's real. Because I think it would be really hard to coach a child to act like that.
- [40:09]
Brett
Honestly, the man sounds faker to me. The way he says, who told you you could use the phone? In some ways sounds like a put on to me. But the girl sounds absolutely legit to me. And she does sound young. So I definitely think it's a child. But like you said, I mean, it's impossible to know. But this is not the last sighting of maybe hurt. Now, I say all this with a caveat. This is really interesting because we have a recording. We have her voice. We have someone saying it's her voice. Everyone who's ever disappeared, there's a thousand sightings of them that are fake. That is just a reality. We've seen it time and again on this show and in any other missing person's case that you've looked at but there's going to be sightings of people throughout the years who seem to think maybe they have a run in with Anthonette. So November 1989, a man named Clarence Downing reported seeing a girl at a truck stop off Interstate 70 in Waynesville, Missouri, which is not exactly close, but nevertheless they resembled Anthonette. He said the girl, who appeared to be alone at the time, was wearing torn jeans, a dirty white T shirt, a red bandana and a big watch. He described her as acting like she had been punished for something. And in some ways she acted like she was afraid of people. This literally could be anyone, anyone, anyone.
- [41:31]
Alice
Especially because we're now like three years removed from Anthonette. And when you're nine, a difference between a nine and 12 year old could be huge. This is not someone who knew her. It's not like it's a family member. It's a random person who probably saw an age progressed photo.
- [41:46]
Brett
So in 1991, which is five years after Anthonette's disappearance, Wendy, who is now 10 years old. So I mean just how young these kids were when she disappeared. So Wendy was five at the time. And Wendy's providing more information than her mom is in many ways. She's re interviewed and has a new piece of information for the authorities. Remember we've got the knock on the door that we think we know who that is. Then there's another knock on the door around 3am this is the second knock at the door. Anthonette went to answer the door. Now remember the story that's been told up to this point is nobody knows anything except Anthonette went to the door. Wendy now says she actually followed closely behind Anthonette. And Anthonette asked who's there? And the person on the other side of the door said Uncle Joe. Now the girls did have an Uncle Joe. So Anthonette opened the door and when she did, two men grabbed her and dragged her kicking and screaming into a brown van waiting outside. When she was asked why she didn't tell the police this sooner, she said she was scared that she would get into trouble. Now one thing I'll note. Remember the elderly woman 6:30am later than what Wendy's saying. But Wendy doesn't know anything about time. She was 5 years old. My 5 year old can't tell time, has no idea what time it is. In the middle of the night, the elderly woman said she saw an older model brown truck or van with New Mexico plates pull up to the home around 6:30. So this now jives with the story that Wendy's telling about that second knock on the door.
- [43:31]
Alice
And if this happened, I'm not doubting Wendy. It's just it is coming five years later. She was only five at the time. If this happened. Let's talk about this. This is a very bizarre kidnapping, right? Because the door would have had to been unlocked on the inside.
- [43:43]
Brett
And.
- [43:44]
Alice
And if Wende is in fact behind them, or at least whoever is, they know enough to say a familiar person's name. Whether this was Uncle Joe or not. They know Anthonette and this family well enough to know there is an Uncle Joe. If they know the family well enough to know there's an Uncle Joe, they know well enough that there's at least three people in there, the little girls, if not a fourth person in there, the moment. And who's going to be the one to open the door? Maybe they know it's always Anthonette. I don't know. But were they going to grab the first person who opened the door? What if it was Penny, the adult? Would they have shoved past her and gotten her? What about the fact that Wendy, if Wendy remembers this correctly, is standing right behind the person who's grabbed? Would they not grab her too? Because she's at the very least going to be a really bad witness against them. So just grab her, even if she's not the object of why they're there. The whole situation, if this is what happened, is lots of question marks because it may say to Wendy's memory, but it also may go to who would have done this?
- [44:49]
Brett
It seems like someone who was definitely targeting Anthonette, like that was. She was the person they were after. And they, like you said, they knew enough to get her. Once again, stranger danger. Not usually stranger, usually somebody you know.
- [45:05]
Alice
And an interesting thing to know if, if Anthonette is kicking and screaming, if somebody grabbed me, I certainly be kicking and screaming. And whoever was on that phone call, who the 911 call who was claiming to be Anthonette, that girl can scream. So you would think Whether this is 3:00am or 6:30am, you would think this would wake up Penny.
- [45:25]
Brett
You'd think, right?
- [45:25]
Alice
At the very least, the mom. Well, kids can sleep through everything. My kids, they sleep through each other screaming. We've talked about sleep training. All my kids sleep on the same hall. They scream, doesn't wake each other up, that's fine. But Mom. But then again, if you're thinking, okay, Mom's been drinking all night. If she came home at midnight and it's 3 or 6am it should have worn off enough that she would be able to hear kicking and screaming. Unless she did get home at 3:30, completely wasted, passed out and sleeps through any sort of kicking and screaming. Since it does seem like everything we have so far, Anthonette was the target of all of this, whoever it may be. That actually to me gives more credence to the fact that she's still alive because she probably wasn't being held ransom because no ransom note came and Penny had no money. Right. They all slept in the same bed, they lived in the park. Like, it's not like they were flouting how much money they had because I don't think they had a lot of money. Her dad didn't get some ransom note. There's no indication that they were trying to extort him for money. So it wasn't for money then. It was probably for her, specifically whether it was to abuse her or to traffic her. But you would have to keep her alive for that purpose. Which gives more credence to that 911 call, that she could be alive to make that call. So November of 1991, a waitress at a restaurant in Carson City, Nevada believed she may have seen Anthonette. This is again five years later, though. Now this is reported by the Charlie Project. The waitress described a girl in her early teens who was sitting with an unkempt couple. The girl kept dropping her fork and each time the waitress picked it up for her, she squeezed the waitress's hand. After they all left, someone found a note under the girl's plate that read, help me call police.
- [47:05]
Brett
I mean, that's regardless of who this is, that's somebody. It's Carson City, Nevada. It's five years later. Hard to say it's Anthonette, but something strange was going on here. And it seems to be someone who was in danger, who was being kept alive by this couple. I mean, I think that's where we're at right now. Is, is she alive or she not alive? Was she immediately murdered? Was she not immediately murdered? Is the call her? Is it not her? I don't know how much stock you can put into these sightings, but this one, unlike the other one, which is like I saw a girl with ripped jeans, this is actually a girl who's in some sort of trouble.
- [47:44]
Alice
Yeah. If this is not Anthonette, this girl is definitely in crisis.
- [47:48]
Brett
Right.
- [47:48]
Alice
So later, despite these tips coming in, it's still cold. So. December 16, 1992, an episode of Unsolved Mysteries featuring Anthonette's cases aired. And when it's aired, more than 100 tips come in as a result of that episode.
- [48:02]
Brett
Unfortunately, most tips are just useless. This is just something every law enforcement officer knows. Tip lines are great. We want people to call in tips. But unfortunately the vast majority of things that come into a tip line are just trash. 90% of them, maybe more. Now the good news is you only need one. You know, you only need one good tip to crack open a case, and that's a good thing because you'll probably get 99 that are worthless. And in this case, we have a hundred tips, but we don't. Nothing comes of it. In 1994, Penny is re interviewed by the FBI. This time she tells the FBI that she was not asleep when that second knock happened. That in fact she heard the knock around 3:30 or 4. And Anthonette didn't just decide to go answer the door, she told Anthonette to answer the door. She says that when she went to check on Anthonette about a half an hour later, she could not find her. Now note if that's true, she didn't exactly start looking for her, but it is almost certainly the case that the 3:30-4:00 clock timeline is wrong because she said it was getting light when she heard the knock. That would conflict with the 3:30 and 4:00 clock timeline, but would fit much better with the 7:30 timeline from the neighbor who saw the same kind of van that her other daughter supposedly saw and would fit better with Penny then waking up 30 minutes later looking for Anthonette and going to search for her in the neighborhood.
- [49:42]
Alice
I don't know a world where I would ever send any of my children to go open the door for anyone. And certainly not if I think it's in the middle of the night.
- [49:51]
Brett
Yeah, I mean, it makes you question things.
- [49:53]
Alice
I mean, I'm an 8 year old and he knows he can't answer the door for anyone. And I actually think if I were asleep and someone were ringing the doorbell and I told him to go answer the door, I think he'd be like, what? Are you sure? You told me not to answer the door? Like he would doubt me if I asked him to do that. And certainly if I were asking him to do that, I wouldn't wait 30 minutes to go see why he hasn't come back. Because remember by Penny's story, all three girls are in bed with her. So Anthonette should have been, I guess, coming back to her bed as opposed to somewhere else.
- [50:24]
Brett
So on April 18, 1999, Penny Cayedito would die at age 46 from cirrhosis of the liver. And when the FBI learned that she was dying, they actually rushed to the hospital because they believed they might get a deathbed confession from her. But by the time they arrived, she had already passed away. That is the end of our timeline. Unfortunately, that is 27 years ago. But that's the last significant thing that's happened in this case. Doesn't mean this case is unsolvable, though, particularly in a world where Penny might still be alive. That brings us to our theories.
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- [55:44]
Brett
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- [57:43]
Alice
So the first one, as everyone, in fact the police probably thought that's why they waited eight hours before they took this missing person's report seriously, is that Anthonette ran away. So there are some people who suggest that Anthonette ran away. They point to the fact that she had a challenging home life and she had immense responsibility on her. She was only nine, but she felt like she had to take care of her sisters. She's being asked to go answer the door in the middle of the night. There's a lot the world is on her shoulders now. This theory holds very little water though, for various reasons. First, none of Anthonette's clothing or belongings were missing, so you would have to believe that she ran away with nothing but the nightgown she wore to bed that night. So this is unlike the Asha degree case where Asia did Leave with a backpack of things. Not a ton of things, but honestly, probably what you think a nine year old girl would take a shirt, some candy bars and whatnot. But that's not the case here. Anthonette left with nothing. Second, Anthonette was reportedly extremely protective of her sisters and she took care of them. So even the sisters, you know, all these years later remember her as a second mother. You know, she didn't act like an evil stepsister to them or anything like that. She loved them, she cared for them. So it's hard to believe that Anthonette would have left in the night, abandoning these girls that she loved so much and honestly was probably taken care of that night. Third, Anthonette was just a child. It's really hard to believe that she would run away in the middle of the night without being spotted or any evidence of being found. We talked about this with the Asia case, how the runaway theory, which it looked like, right, she had a backpack of things and people saw her walking down the road, was so bizarre because of her age. Runaways, real thing, typically not at nine years old, it is typically a little bit older. It's getting into the teen years and, or much younger and they're like, they think they're in a fairy tale. But nine, she's old enough to be taking care of her sisters. She's actually not at the prime age to be running away. And no indication is that she ran away because she looks like a little kid. If she were standing at a bus stop, someone would have noticed.
- [59:55]
Brett
And Asia Degree is a great example of that. You know, Asia is bizarre as that disappearance was. People saw her. Multiple people saw her walking down the road and they exactly that. They were like, what in the world is this kid doing out in the middle of the night? She left behind evidence. We found the wrappers and all the other items in the shed where she had taken shelter from the rain. So, yeah, I mean, not only would you have to believe she did this, despite everything I said, you'd have to believe she was so good at it, she just disappeared into thin air. And I think that's highly unlikely. Of all the money, this is not a runaway case. That's not what happened. And that brings us to theory number two, which is that Anthonette was a victim of a stranger abduction. As we've said, this is rare, but nevertheless, it is a popular theory and she was abducted at her door by a complete stranger. The motive is not clear, but if you believe the phone call was really her, some would say she was probably forced into the sex trade in some way or another. The problem with this theory is that, number one, Anthonette likely wouldn't have opened the door for a stranger. Number two, a stranger would have had to have just knocked on her door at 3 o' clock in the morning and hoped that she answered it. That seems unlikely. And her sisters have said that they wouldn't have opened the door unless Penny had told them to, which we now know Penny did indeed do. And she would had to have opened the front door, seen the person or persons, and unlocked the screen door for them to have access to her. That is if you believe the screen door was actually locked. But either way, I think the chances this is a stranger abduction incredibly slim. This is almost certainly someone that she knew.
- [61:34]
Alice
And that gets us to our last theory, which I think is probably what happened. So the most likely scenario, like Brett said, is that Anthonette was abducted by someone that she knew. Anthonette would have been far more likely to open that door had she known the person. And since there were no signs of forced entry, she likely did open it and probably opened two doors. So had time to rethink it or to really get a close look and say, you know what, I actually don't know who you are. Then there was Wendy's recollection. Wendy was 5 at the time, but she heard someone at the door say it was Uncle Joe. So though the girl's actual Uncle Joe was ruled out as a suspect, maybe someone knew that they had an Uncle Joe and used that name, that person, to lure Anthonette into opening the door. Reportedly, Emo Ronald and Penny have all failed polygraphs. Additionally, Penny reportedly offered some level of confession to the FBI saying, quote, what if me and Emo did this, Would we both go to prison? Not a confession, but a strange thing to say when your 9 year old daughter is gone without a trace.
- [62:36]
Brett
There's a reason the FBI was expecting a deathbed condition.
- [62:39]
Alice
Fish. Yeah. Now, Penny's story continuously changed, leading to more suspicion. We've always said this, the more it's really hard to keep a lie straight. It's hard to keep truth straight sometimes, but really hard to keep a lie straight, especially over time. And her story kept changing. That's one of the hallmark signs of an untruth. So some suggested that Penny sold Anthonette for drugs or because Anthonette was a difficult child. Though honestly, we can't find anything that would suggest Anthonette was actually difficult because I don't know how Penny would go party all the time. If she didn't have her babysitter around all the time because she has pretty young kids. They're like, five, six at the time. Anthonette is her key to freedom, actually, because she's around to take care of the little girls. So I don't think necessarily it was that Anthonette was difficult. Of course, if you are to blame or you are the reason she's gone, it's easy to cover up and say, you know, she was. She was difficult. And maybe it wasn't for drugs. Maybe it was for something. Unfortunately, Brett and I have seen a lot. Maybe it was to make money on sex trafficking. Maybe she was lending her out to other people. Maybe she was supposed to be returned. Maybe Emo was supposed to take her to another man, and she was supposed to be returning. She wasn't, which is why she reported her at 11, because maybe she was supposed to be back by 7 or 8.
- [63:55]
Brett
Yeah. And the downside to doing the job that Alice and I both had is you do see the very worst of humanity. And there are women who will let their boyfriends abuse their daughters. That is something that happens. Ronald was supposedly her best friend. Emo obviously had interest in her, had an interest in Anthonette. I don't actually think this is much of a mystery. I think it's a mystery to the extent of what ended up happening to her. Mom did this.
- [64:29]
Alice
Mom allowed this to happen.
- [64:31]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [64:32]
Alice
into the van, but she did this. And unfortunately, we see this all the time now. We have digital evidence of this. They didn't have cell phones back then, but we see these texts all the time. Facebook messages. They're not even texts. We're talking using Facebook messaging where some creep living up in New York messages a mom somewhere far away, Nevada, in fact, and says, that's a really cute girl on your lap in your profile picture. How about you let me take her, show her the world for a little bit? Mom says, what's your price? They fly there. And we have seen this exact case.
- [65:08]
Brett
Yep.
- [65:08]
Alice
I've changed the. I've changed the locations, and I've changed the exact messages, but that. We've seen that exact case, and it's moms who do it. It's the most disgusting thing ever when it's the mom. We've seen grandmothers do it, too. But I think Penny planned this, because I think she told the person to show up in the middle of the night when hopefully there were fewer witnesses. And she absolutely told Anthonette to go open the door to make sure it was Anthonette. And I think the fact that this went south, I think something did go south. Maybe the plan wasn't exactly. Maybe she wasn't planning, like a total abduction or something like that, but the fact that it went total south and the police got involved and the FBI got involved is the only reason her younger two daughters weren't trafficked.
- [65:53]
Brett
No, I think that's probably likely. I think you're 100% right. I think in my mind, I think she probably did not intend Anthonette to be kidnapped forever just because she was so useful to her. You know, I think she probably wanted her back, but I think she was willing to lend her out. Not to be crass, but I mean, that's essentially what happens in these cases. And I think it's possible that Emo or Ronald, whichever one it was, who facilitated this, it could have gone wrong and Anthonette died, or it could have just been, he didn't want to give her back and he says no. And Penny's in a position where, what's she going to do? Tell the police? She going to tell the police that she did this whole thing? And you go back to the, what if me and Emo did this? Would we both go to prison? I mean, to me, there's just no question. She made a deal with Emo and
- [66:49]
Alice
she was gonna get cut of it or he was gonna return her. And Emo contacted his buddies who did it. They were like, yeah, sure, we'll take her for a couple days and return her. Not, we're gonna get her a lot more money. Now, whether that was actually her, I think she was taken to be trafficked because that is very lucrative at 9. So I think there absolutely is a possibility that was her on the phone call. It's a really rough life.
- [67:17]
Brett
And look, you know, sex trafficking is always a sexy theory whenever someone disappears, but usually it's no one who would ever be sex trafficked. Sex traffickers don't kidnap wealthy women off of cruise ships. That doesn't happen. They don't pick up women off of Rodeo Drive and, you know, get them addicted to heroin and traffic them. That doesn't happen. But what they do are these marginalized people who. People don't care that much about kids from families who'll do things with a mom who will do things like sell her or give her away. Those are the kind of people who absolutely are trafficked. And this is a scenario that absolutely could happen.
- [68:01]
Alice
And think about this. You're Nine years old, you have no money. You have the nightgown that you're wearing. You know what your mom's up to. She's old enough to know what her mom's up to. If people are coming in all hours of the day, as the neighbor is saying, your first thought is, okay, mom is turning tricks to be able to afford her habit. The more sinister one, we don't have evidence at this because the only people in the house really were very young girls who may not have known Anthonette, who's gone, and Penny. But with what's happened to Anthonette, it's possible that maybe at first the people who are coming all hours of the night, by the way, hours of the night being they were coming for sex for mom. But then enough guys were like, you know what? I like them younger maybe. This had been happening for quite some time.
- [68:48]
Brett
And I just want to know. Penny died at 46 of cirrhosis. Penny wasn't at the bar letting off some steam. Penny had at least an incredibly serious alcohol problem and she probably had a pretty serious drug problem as well. So this is the perfect storm for something like this to happen. And I hate that. I mean, this is not a conclusion we want to reach. That the mother of a nine year old is likely responsible for her disappearance either because she knew she was going to disappear or it just. She knew what was going to happen and it got out of hand. But that's what happened to me. There's really no question here. And it is my hope, my sincere hope that there is a 49 year old woman out there who doesn't really remember who she was because these terrible, horrific things happened to her when she was young and she was able to get out of that. And she's made a lie for herself and she has no idea that she's Anthonette. That's my sincere hope and I hope she has a wonderful life and is happy and has overcome the horrific things that happened during her past. I acknowledge that is not the most likely outcome. Even if she weren't murdered. Growing up in this environment, you can only imagine the things that could happen. This is not an uplifting case.
- [70:13]
Alice
And I'll say explicitly what we see often happen because I think people talk in honestly such fairy tale terms about, and I don't use that term lightly because I've actually heard a defense attorney say that about child sex trafficking. What likely happened to her if she did live and was not killed within minutes, hours or even years, they would have gotten her addicted to Drugs, because that's the way you get someone submissive in order to do these horrendous things as anyone. You're treated like an animal. You're probably locked up. You have someone who quite literally enslaves you. You're not free to go anywhere yourself. Where could she go anyways? She's nine years old. The only person in the world who should be looking for her is not going to look for her because she is the reason she's in the situation. She is. So she would be plied with drugs and alcohol from the age of nine, which will do an incredible number of course, on your emotional and mental and physical abilities. And she would only be attractive for the people that she is being trafficked to until a certain age. It would be in her teens, basically by her twenties she would probably now be a liability. So at best they kick her off the side of the road and tell her to go just figure it out. And she's homeless and finds some, you know, somehow in her drug addled state is somehow able to come out of it. Or worse, someone who she is trafficked to murders her in who cares, right?
- [71:44]
Brett
Or she has a drug overdose. She's just another homeless person who died of a drug overdose. Or she kills herself. I mean, the outcomes are all horrific. It's one of the reasons that fighting this kind of thing is so important and needs to be a focus. And I think one thing that bothers me a little bit about what we see in true crime sometimes is how sensationalized sex trafficking is. It's not sensational, it's not romantic, it's not a movie. It's dirty and it's awful and it's horrific and, and it targets children.
- [72:19]
Alice
Literally dirty. It's disgusting.
- [72:21]
Brett
Disgusting.
- [72:21]
Alice
The raids of these motel rooms are the most disgusting things you've ever seen. You guys, you know, you've laughed along with me and with my bedbug episode when I accidentally rented a hotel room with bedbugs, we laughed. When you walk into these hotel rooms, they smell like death because they are riddled with fleas and bedbugs and the most disgusting things. And showers are a luxury that you're not afforded and it is a horrendous sight. We're not talking about like a gold plated bed that you get to, you know, sit in your beautiful ivory tower in. It is horrendous.
- [73:01]
Brett
No, it is, it's horrific and it's something that we should continue to fight. We actually have a Legal Briefs episode coming out this week as we record this about an organization that fights child sex trafficking. If you haven't heard that yet, go over to Legal briefs, listen to it. There are a lot of different organizations you can support that work in this area. And if anything good can come out of this story, it should be that. Commit yourself to helping. If you can help, if you've got resources you can give and you're looking for. I know. I'm always looking for something to support, right? Like, what's a good charity I can give to? How can I make a difference? Well, these people that are doing this work, they need the help, they need the resources. There are so many of these folks who are in this situation, and it takes a lot. It takes a lot to overcome this, to overcome the addiction, to start a new life, to get an education, to reintegrate into society. So think about that when you're thinking about where to give, if you're able to give. These organizations that fight child sex trafficking or in sex trafficking in general, are organizations you should support.
- [74:06]
Alice
So if Anthonette were still alive Today, she'd be 49 years old. Anyone with information is encouraged to contact your local FBI office or the Gallup PD. Their number is 505-863-9365. That's 505-863-9365. I pray and hope that she is alive and well and hopefully has amnesia and doesn't remember the horrendous things that her mother did to her and that she is living a wonderful life. But for her sister's sake and for all who love her, I hope she is found so that there can be healing done here. So. So this was so sad, but unfortunately not a standalone case. It is but one of many, many cases like it.
- [74:52]
Brett
And we've done a lot of these cases. We're going to continue to do these cases. I know these cases are a bit of a downer. They're not the fun who done it. They're not even the fun disappearances. They're hard and they're difficult. But I really appreciate you guys sticking by us when we talk about these other missing and murdered indigenous women, missing people, people who are taken advantage of. Doesn't really matter who they are, where they come from. You know, we need to do everything we can to support them. And I really appreciate you guys continuing to support us as we talk about these cases. If you have thoughts about this, shoot us an email prosecutors pod gmail.com@ ProsecutorsPod for all your social media. Join us on the gallery, which is our fan run, fan created Facebook page. You can discuss this and any other case that you're interested in. If you are interested in watching us record these episodes for only $3 a month, you can do that on Patreon. If you want to get episodes early and ad free. If you hate ads, then we now have two ways you can do that. You can do it on patreon also for $3 a month, or you can subscribe on Apple subscriptions and get them that way if you don't like Patreon. But as always, everything we do will always be available to you virtual, eventually for free. All right, Alice. Well, I think we're gonna go ahead and sign off for today. This has been a heavy one, but do you have anything else you want to share before we say goodbye?
- [76:14]
Alice
No. Thank you. For everyone who sees something to say something. I'm glad those people who think they saw Anthonette came forward because whoever they saw, that person was in crisis whether it was Anthonette or not. And unfortunately, like we said, there are many Anthonets out there like that. So if you see something strange, just use your eyes. If we were all tighter knit and watching out for each other, I do think that these predators would have a much harder time continuing this trade.
- [76:43]
Brett
Amen, Alice. As always, the best thing about Alice is we always end these episodes and I ask, do you have anything else to say? She always says no, but. And then she says the most profound thing that's said in the entire episode. And that's why she's the best co host in all of podcasting. All right, guys, we'll be back next week with a new case, but until then, I'm Brett.
- [77:05]
Alice
And I'm Alice.
- [77:06]
Brett
And we are the prosecutors.
- [77:29]
Alice
Hold on. We got our last swag, guys. We got buttons for crime con.
- [77:35]
Brett
Yay.
- [77:37]
Alice
I got. I guess people make even smaller ones. I don't dislike them, but they're. I think people get one inch. I think we got one and a half inch. Just so you know, they're gonna look bigger than other people. Peoples. You're welcome.
- [77:50]
Brett
Cuz those people are a bunch of losers and we're winners.
- [77:53]
Alice
More like. I don't. I can't use a ruler appropriately. I was trying to.
- [77:58]
Brett
Pin and button are synonyms, right? Yeah, I mean, it's not the kind of buttons you use to button your shirt.
- [79:05]
Alice
Okay, I have a practical question.
- [79:07]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
If you're in Albuquerque, how do you call the Galluped?
- [79:10]
Brett
Well, if you read the next section.
- [79:13]
Alice
I know, I'm just asking questions.
- [79:15]
Brett
Everyone's thinking it's a great question, Alice. If you were in Albuquerque in 1986, how would you call the Gallup? Peter. Sam. At first I didn't think it was real. I woke up to this blinding light and I was transported to another place. Pluto tv. Then I heard a voice. Come with me if you want to live. There were thousands of movies and and shows, and they were all free. Truth is, it's just so Beautiful on Pluto TV. Free streaming of Terminator 2, Fringe Arrow, the 100 and the X Files may cause excitement, loss of sleep, and sudden belief in extraterrestrials. No credit cards or alien encounters necessary. Pluto TV Stream Now. Pay Never
- [80:38]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [81:41]
Alice
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