C (3:11)

This is maritime law.

B (3:12)

This is so boring with tax.

C (3:13)

And I am bored.

B (3:14)

I am bored to death. These larger, dumb. The briefs are 100 pages. I don't want to read this. I got time for this oral argument. And so then just goes off to the next three judges who take it.

C (3:25)

Now, certainly none of the judges we clerked for ever did that. Normally, as clerks ever do that.

B (3:31)

Nor would any of the judges that I appear in front of would ever do that.

C (3:35)

Never would they do that. But there definitely was this oral argument that I was clerk for that was 150 page briefs on either side about some, like, obscure, seemingly inane maritime issue that we were like, how does this affect us today and not in 1821?

B (3:57)

Yeah.

C (3:58)

And the questions reflected it. The judges were like, was there a dinghy or a buoy?

B (4:05)

Yeah.

C (4:06)

And we didn't know the answer.

B (4:08)

And it was. Sometimes you get in there. And the good thing about being the government is usually you go second. So by the time you get up to talk, the other guy has already endured 15 minutes of questions. So you have a pretty good idea. Is this real? Are we gonna actually do this here? Or, like, are we not here for any reason? And I can just kind of be like, yeah, you know, I agree with everything you've just said. If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. Otherwise, I'll sit down. Right.

C (4:34)

So exactly. Okay, so I have a really important question because I do think this is very interesting. I used to love traveling. Now I like traveling much less. It's hard to leave a bunch of kids behind. And also, it's just, like, not as novel to stay in a hotel room anymore. I like my own bed. So we were talking about this. What do you do when you walk into a hotel room? So I do the full sweep. Like, I drop on my hands and knees and look under the bed. Most beds now, like in hotel rooms, have the barrier where there's no under the bed must be because they know murderers can hide under there. But I swing open every door, I make a lot of noise, and I'm like, ready to Bolt. And then when I have cleared the room, like the police officer, I am not, I then bolt all, all the doors. Like if there's the. The door bolt or the chain and then the like little turny thing. I don't know what the turny thing does because as those of you who've been following for a while, there was one crime con. We don't have to be specific about which one. I was given a key to a room that was not mine. And then this happened yet again when I had the bed bug. Not get bed bugs, but the room I was in had bedbugs. And they sent us to a room with a key that opened the door where someone was. So that's why I bolt all my doors. Less so because of murderers, more so because of incompetence. Because I figure if someone wants to come in and get me, they're gonna be able to knock down the door.

B (5:59)

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I'm a man, so I don't feel. I'll say this.

C (6:05)

You don't check your room when you go in a hotel room.

B (6:07)

Well, what would I check for?

C (6:09)

Well, really? Okay, I need a poll. I need a poll. In the chat. I. I truly am curious about this. I've never not checked a room that I go.

B (6:18)

What are we checking for? Like, people? Someone. Because there is that story, and it's a true story. It's an urban legend, but it's also based on true story about the guy who murdered the woman and put her under the bed. And like, somebody checked in, they're like, wow, this place stinks. And they found the dead body under the bed. So there's terrifying.

C (6:36)

Well, if I smell the dead body, I would just run. I'm not looking for a dead body. I'm looking for someone who wants to make me a dead body. I mean, you really don't check?

B (6:44)

No, I check the back of my car, but look, it's different being a guy.

C (6:49)

No, no, I agree. I. I am. I'm not chastising you. I'm so surprised that you don't check. Like, I would not be able to continue about my night if I had not checked. I check all my doors before I go to bed at night.

B (7:03)

I mean, if it was a super shady motel, maybe I do this at the Ritz Carlton. I do not check the ritz Carlton.

C (7:12)

I 100%.

B (7:14)

Because part of the service is they check for.

C (7:16)

No, because there are more places to hide at a place like the Ritz Carlton. Are you kidding? All those fluffy Little couches. I lift all of the little skirts and look. Not female skirts. I. I look at all underneath all the, like, chairs and look for.

B (7:31)

I have a. I have a Ritz Carlton story, which I haven't told. I don't think. Have I ever told the story about the time I almost got arrested? Have I told that story involving the Ritz?

C (7:40)

No, but please tell us.

B (7:42)

And this has nothing to do with getting murdered, but it does speak to the service level of the Ritz Carlton. So when I was clerking, as all best stories start, so I was clerking, we had en banc arguments in Atlanta.

B (7:56)

So en banc is when the entire circuit gathers to hear really important cases. And so all the clerks go, all the judges are there. You do it in the really fancy courtroom. It's a really important cases. So really, probably you should be on top of your game for those. Right? Well, so the Ritz Carlton, Atlanta, we'd always stay at. And we would stay on the club level. So before we went to dinner, we went to the club level. And the club level, they would just give you alcohol. And like, I was young and stupid and poor, and so it's like, wait, you're just giving me alcohol? That's awesome. And so they had, like, Grand Marnier they were giving us. And I didn't know. I just thought Grand Marnier was like a liqueur. But it's like. It's like 40% alcohol, right?

C (8:43)

It's like rubbing alcohol.

B (8:44)

So they give every. It's good. And so they give everybody.

C (8:47)

No, no, no. My boy Beanie. It's very strong.

B (8:49)

It is strong. So everybody gets it. And then they're, like, sipping it and we have to go to dinner. And I'm like, I'll take them. So I drank everybody's, like, Grand Marnier. We went to dinner with the judge. He was very generous. He ordered all these bottles of wine. We drank all the wine. Then we get back to the Ritz Carlton, and across the street from the Ritz Carlton was an Irish pub, right? So me and the, like, career clerk and one of the other people, I'm like, let's go to the Irish pub. So we go to the Irish pub.

B (9:18)

And the last thing I remember.

C (9:21)

Oh, no.

B (9:21)

We get to the Irish pub, we order Irish car bombs. So no offense to those of you in Ireland who this means something else.

C (9:30)

You have en banc. The next day.

B (9:31)

We did the next day.

C (9:32)

Goodness gracious.

B (9:33)

So it's me, my co clerk, who I love. We were best friends, best buds. We did everything Together. I still see her every Halloween because she lives in the neighborhood that I go. Trick or treat again. But anyways. And the career clerk. So the career clerk apparently left after the Irish Car Bomb. It was just me and my CO clerk. So we ordered the Irish Car Bombs. And the last thing I remember is. So an Irish Car Bomb. It's like half a glass of Guinness and then a shot of Jameson and Bailey's and you drop it in the Guinness and you chug it. So I remember chugging the Irish Car Bomb. That's the last thing I remember. The next thing I remember is your.

C (10:15)

Judge bailing you out of jail.

B (10:16)

No, no, no. Is. Is waking up sitting up in my bed. So I wake up and I'm sitting.

C (10:23)

Up, like sitting on the edge of the bed or you're in the bed sitting up?

B (10:26)

No, sitting on the edge. I'm sitting on the edge.

C (10:28)

This is terrifying.

B (10:29)

I wake up and I look up and there's like a table in front of me. And on the table is a woman's purse.

B (10:39)

So I see the woman's purse and then I immediately turn around into the bed to see, like, is there a woman in the bed with me? Right? There's no woman in the bed. This is like 4 o' clock in the morning. There's no woman in the bed with me. You talk about checking. I like, get up. I like walking to the bathroom. Is there a woman in the. There's no woman in the bathroom. I text my girlfriend at the time, who I'm now married to, and I'm like, hey.

B (11:00)

I just woke up sitting up in my bed and there's a woman's purse here. I'm not sure what's going on. I'll let you know later. So anyways.

B (11:10)

I'm wearing. I'm still wearing, like, you know, the clothes I was wearing the night before. So anyway, so I don't know what's going on. And so basically I go back to sleep, I wake up and I go to breakfast and I'm.

C (11:23)

You go to bed after this?

B (11:25)

Yeah.

C (11:25)

Having not figured out what happened.

B (11:27)

I mean, I was half drunk. Right. I didn't know what happened.

C (11:29)

That's fair.

B (11:30)

I go to bed. So I go to breakfast with my other CO clerk and I'm like, the weirdest thing happened. I woke up and there's like a woman's purse in my room. And she's like, you have the purse? And I was like, what purse? Well, it turns out the purse was my co clerk's purse. And my co clerk's government credit card was in the purse. So when she woke up, she woke up in her own room, by the way, and realized she didn't have her purse. It's like three o' clock in the morning. So she's trying to call her fiance, and she dials the number and she calls a guy. 3:00' clock in the morning, a random guy. And she's, like, trying to explain it to him. And the guy's like, you got the wrong number. But she keeps calling this same number, waking this guy up. And the guy's like, lady, I don't know who you are. It's 2 o' clock in the morning. I am not your boyfriend. And she's crying. She's like, but I've lost my purse and all this other stuff. Anyway, okay. So then, like, it starts coming back to me in flashes, right? So basically, what I've managed to reconstruct about the night is it's Valentine's Day, by the way, it's Valentine's Day. We're at this Irish pub, we do the Car Bomb. At some point, a couple comes in celebrating Valentine's Day. We somehow become, like, friends with them. One of them has cigarettes, right? And so I'm like, I want a cigarette. So she gives me a cigarette. So I start smoking the cigarette. We can't smoke cigarettes in the bar in Atlanta at this time. So I'm smoking this cigarette. So the bouncer comes up. And I can vaguely remember this now. So at the time, this was back when I, you know, when I tried to join the Navy. I think I've told this story. I tried to join the Navy. I was like, in great shape. So I'm like, in the best shape of my life. The bouncer comes over. The bouncer is like this 5 foot 3 dude. He probably weighs like 120 pounds soaking wet. And he's like, sir, you're gonna have to leave. And I looked at him and just burst out laughing. Because I was like, you gonna. You gonna remove me, man? You're not gonna remove me. So anyways. So, like, anyway, so all this happens. At some point. My CO clerk goes to the bathroom. She loses her purse. She decides that the couple we're with stole the purse, right? So she's now accusing them of stealing the purse. They're like, I have no idea what I'm smoking. Cig. The bars threatening to call the police. Like, all this stuff's going up. The next thing I remember is I'm standing in the lobby of the Ritz Carlton. Talking to, like, this poor overnight clerk who apparently was interested in photography, right?

C (14:05)

And.

B (14:05)

And I'm like, oh, you like photography? He's like. And he's being very nice. Whatever. Well, as I'm discussing photography with this poor guy, like, drunk out of my mind, the bartender from the bar across the street walks in with the purse and is like, your friend left this in the bathroom. And so I take the purse, and I'm like, oh, thank you so much for bringing it. But they hate me, right? Because, like, they were trying to kick me out the whole time, and they couldn't do it. And so she's like, don't ever come back to our bar again. So whenever I go to. Whenever I go to Atlanta, I've been back, but I always feel like I have to, like, hide. Like, if they know it's me, they're.

C (14:45)

Gonna, like, you probably have posted your picture in the staff locker room.

B (14:48)

Exact.

C (14:49)

Exactly.

B (14:49)

So the Irish bar across from the Ritz Carlton, Atlanta. I'm banned from that bar. I can't go to it anyways. So that's how I got the purse. I have no idea how I get back to my room to this day.

C (14:59)

I've never remembered or how you're sleeping sitting up.

B (15:01)

So I think eventually poor photography guy was like, let me take you to your room, sir. And I went up there and put the purse down and then just sat down on the bed and literally passed out sitting up, right? And then woke up later. And so then the next day, we.

C (15:19)

Have oral argument, and you were fine. This is the way you roll.

B (15:23)

My poor co clerk was so sick, she passed out on the couch in the chambers. Didn't even make it to oral arguments.

C (15:32)

No, she didn't.

B (15:33)

I, like, limped in, feeling like I was gonna throw up over everybody the whole time, but managed to, like, make it through it. But in my judge, the greatest man in America just thought this whole thing was hilarious. Just thought it was the funniest thing that had ever happened. That the two of us, two blackout drunk clerks just thought it was absolutely hilarious. So that's my Ritz Carlton story.

C (15:58)

That's insane.

B (15:58)

Praise to the Atlanta Ritz Carlton.

C (16:01)

Yeah. Way to go. And way to go to the bar. You know, they really hated you.

B (16:05)

They totally could have called the police several times. Like, I also remember at one point standing outside smoking with a homeless dude, right? And talking about, like, yeah, these guys, they call the police on me. And the homeless guy was like, yeah, like, the man, you know, he's trying to call. And I was like, yeah, they call the police on me. I didn't do anything wrong. I'm just trying to mess America, right? Anyways, yeah. Could have gone horribly wrong.

C (16:25)

Okay, Your story and my hotel stories are nothing alike.

C (16:33)

Nothing alike. So if you guys wanted to know what the difference is between being a man and a woman.

C (16:43)

Right there, I'm sweeping the room for. For murderers, and you are being escorted to your room with someone else's purse.

B (16:50)

Yep. Yep. But it all worked out in the end. And now we just have a good story.

C (16:57)

Now we just have a good story. That's insane. Okay, you know what you should tell. Tell me your Supreme Court.

B (17:03)

Oh, my Supreme Court story. This is a short story, but it's.

C (17:05)

A cool story, y'.

B (17:06)

All.

C (17:07)

We should make this an ad.

B (17:08)

We should make this an ad. So if you're listening to this and you're a law student, pay attention, because this could change your life. Right? So last week I was in D.C. and I was at this, like, highfalutin thing with all these highfalutin people, and I'm eating like a shrimp, you know, like, that I got for free because all the. I'm standing. I always position myself at all these events right next to the door where all the people come in.

C (17:33)

You and I both do the appetizer. That's why I love going with you.

B (17:36)

That's right.

C (17:37)

We're good at it.

B (17:38)

You get all the appetizers, right? And like, and they try to.

C (17:40)

They try to skirt past you, cuz they're like, dang it, I'm not going to walk by with a full plate.

B (17:44)

Well, see, I usually charm the server. So they're like, like this time there was something I remember from last year, and they hadn't brought it out yet. And I was like, hey, if you get any of those filet sliders, you make sure you see me. And sure enough, she comes over, she's like, I've got it, sir.

B (18:00)

Anyway, so I'm eating my shrimp, my filet slider, and this, this lady comes over and she's like, hey, you probably don't remember me. We talked last year. I really like your podcast. And I did remember it. I was like, oh, yeah, I remember talking to you. And then she said, let's be clear real quick.

C (18:17)

This highfalutin conference is a lawyer conference. It is not a podcast situation. So, like, most people here don't know Brett as podcaster, and she says, I.

B (18:26)

Want you to know that your podcast got me a clerkship on the Supreme Court of the United States.

C (18:35)

I was gonna say it is the scotus.

B (18:37)

Yeah. And I was like, really? And so then she tells the story. She's like, yeah. So I had this interview, and, you know, I had been studying all these different areas of the law and, like, really cramming all their stuff, you know? And I was thinking, well, they're not gonna ask me about anything that's, like, currently before the court. And so I'm really focused on, like, historical stuff. And I just gotten more. My mind was completely full, and I didn't know what to even do anymore. And I thought, man, I've got to relax. And so I put on legal briefs. So I started listening to legal briefs, and you guys were talking about the case at Oklahoma, the Glossip case, which was in front of the Supreme Court. And so I listened to your gloss up episode, and I was like, oh, that's. You know, that's really interesting. And then I went back to cramming. Next day, she has her interview. And the way it works when you interview for the Supreme Court, and frankly, when you interview for most appellate courts, really any court, the first people you talk to are the clerks. So the people who already have the job, they interview you first, and they have a lot of say with the judge by who gets hired. And so she says she goes to the interview with the clerks, and if he's going really well, and then they're like, okay, you want to be on the Supreme Court? You want to clerk Supreme Court? Tell us about a case we're considering right now. And she goes.

B (19:49)

Well, there's this Glossip case that you guys are considering. She was like. And she just, like, said everything. She was like. I just went ahead. And what's funny about it is the justice for whom she was interviewing at the time ended up dissenting in that case, which means agreed with us because we were in the dissent. So the fact that she's presenting the case the way we presented it was.

C (20:14)

Maybe we helped write the dissent.

B (20:16)

There you go. Who's very attractive, this justice. And then, sure enough, she gets the clerkship.

C (20:20)

That is like, awesome.

B (20:21)

So. And then she tells me, and then she tells me, but you're soft on crime because of this whole, like, escape thing.

C (20:27)

You are soft on crime. So she's my fan, then.

B (20:29)

What are you talking about?

C (20:30)

Thank you. Okay. You absolutely are soft on crime. I do not believe in the right to escape whatsoever. But I'm pretty sure, you know how when you write a book and they have, like, a review by someone famous, I'm pretty sure now we can say have successfully placed clerk on Supreme Court.

B (20:46)

People should start paying us for the service.

C (20:48)

Yeah, you're welcome, everybody. I will say so. So Mr. Alice is also a lawyer.

B (20:55)

He a lawyer anymore?

C (20:56)

He's not. Doesn't really listen to our podcast that much. Love the man, but you know, he, like me, gets scared about true crime stuff. But anyways, he listened to our latest legal briefs and he said he was cackling, laughing out loud. He's like, you guys are kind of funny. I was like, yeah, we've been doing this for five years. We're like really good at this.

B (21:16)

We're really funny. More people should listen. What are you talking about?

C (21:20)

More people should listen. Anyways, so maybe, maybe the new year, I mean, we can count this as a third podcast, but if you want more content, maybe we do. More content?

B (21:31)

Yeah.

C (21:31)

I don't know. Only if you guys want it. We did just sign a two year contract. We do. We are locked in for two years.

B (21:39)

Oh.

B (21:42)

Wow.

C (21:42)

Mr. Alice is currently listening.

B (21:44)

Oh, is that right?

C (21:45)

I listen.

B (21:47)

Oh, there you go.

C (21:48)

Sorry, Mr. Alice. Sorry, sorry. You totally listen. You called me out on it right now.

B (21:54)

My wife always watched them. She's probably asleep by now.

C (21:57)

That's what I'm saying is she always listens because she's texting us in real time. Sorry, Mr. Alice, you are an incredibly supportive husband.

B (22:05)

So supportive.

C (22:06)

But you don't have all the time in the world, so. And we definitely talk a lot.

B (22:12)

I mean, that is the job, right? We talk.

C (22:15)

That is the job.

B (22:16)

All right, well, this has been fun.

C (22:17)

You have court in like three hours, so you should go to sleep.

B (22:21)

Anyway, so I hope you guys have enjoyed this. This episode of After Dark. When will we see you? It's hard to say.

C (22:28)

We don't know.

B (22:29)

It's a mystery. It's like much of life, we just appear in the darkness when you need us. We're like Batman or something. I don't know. Anyways, well, this has been fun, Alice. I've enjoyed this. And even though nothing good happens after Dark, I hope we do this very soon. But until then, she's Alice and he's Brett. And this is the prosecutors after dad.

B (23:15)

Sam.

C (23:50)

Even the Rich is a podcast from Wondery that tells the jaw dropping stories about the tumultuous lives of the world's elite. From the greatest family dynasties to pop culture superstars. Listen to even the rich on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free by joining Wondery and Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app.