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- [00:01]
A
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A
Learn more and enroll now. Evergreen Virtual Academy evergreenvirtual.org. I'm brett.
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B
And I'm alice.
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A
And we are the prosec. Today on the Prosecutors. We continue our investigation into the murder of Lacey Peterson. Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of the Prosecutors. I'm Brett and I'm joined as always with my brilliant co host, Alice.
- [02:24]
B
Hi Brett. Thank you for that descriptor.
- [02:27]
A
Brilliant. I decided to stick to English this time.
- [02:32]
B
Well, speaking of brillian, reminds me of stars. Did you catch when Saturn and Jupiter aligned for the first time in like, you know, hundreds of years and made like a star? Wasn't it cool?
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A
I did. It was really awesome. My wife took a picture of it and you can see Jupiter's moons in the picture.
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B
Oh, can you see that? Did you see that with your naked eye?
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A
I could not. But when she took the picture, you could see them. So that was really neat. Yeah, that was cool.
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B
I couldn't see the rings, but I saw people. And you may have had to been like more south. I think you had to be in like the southern tip of Argentina or something to see the rings around Saturn. But I saw pictures of it and that was really cool too.
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A
I'm sure your son loved that.
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B
Oh my goodness. So he's obsessed with the moon, obviously. He invites the moon to come along on every car ride with us, which to his delight, the moon comes because the moon.
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A
But it's the moon.
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B
He was psyched that Jupiter, companion of Earth. Exactly.
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A
Nice. Nice.
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B
Anyways yeah.
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A
Well, that's quite beautiful. That's a nice, beautiful note to start this very not beautiful case with. So thank you, Alice, for that little moment of light in this dark, dark world that we live in.
- [03:52]
B
Now. This is, you know what I was thinking when you said the murder of Lacy Peterson was that this is really the murders of Lacey and Connor Peterson. And, and when we get into kind of the details of Connor being separated from Lacey, it's just, it's a, it's a dark, dark and sad story.
- [04:11]
A
It really is. And it, it's a dark and sad story no matter who is responsible for it. But if it is the case that Scott Peterson killed both his wife and his son, it just makes it even worse. And that's what we're looking at. We're trying to figure out whether or not the facts support that or not. You guys are the jury. We're just presenting the evidence to you, though. We will give you our summation at the end of all this and let you know what we think. Last episode was really about preliminary stuff. It was talking about the lead up to that Christmas in 2002, and we reached the end of December 23rd. So now we're going to December 24th, which is the day where everything really went down. And there's a lot to talk about in this day. We're going to walk through this day. Obviously, we'll be talking about this day for a while, but this is our attempt to sort of give you the timeline as presented both by Scott Peterson and the state in the prosecution, and we'll sort of lay out for you. As I said, the bulk of this timeline is from one of the websites advocating for Scott Peterson's innocence. But we're also adding in stuff that we learned through the trial as part of the timeline, and a lot of that will flesh out a lot more when we talk about the prosecution's case. But let's just go ahead and dive into this because this is probably going to take a little while. So, you know, enough chit chat.
- [05:38]
B
Let's get to work anyway.
- [05:41]
A
Right. We'll save that for the next blooper reel. Okay, so we are at December 24, 2002. So we start that morning. Just want to remind you there is a prosecution theory that Lacey, that Lacy Peterson is dead at this point. So just recall that this, a lot of this is from Scott's point of view. Dec. 24, 2002, 7am Scott estimated that Lacy woke up about 7am Said that by the time he got up, Lacey had Already eaten cereal and it was around 8 or 8:30. She, being pregnant, was hungry, so she actually had a piece of toast while he ate cereal. Scott recalled that the cereal was cinnamon puffins from Trader Joe's and receipts showed that Lacey had actually purchased that cereal the day before.
- [06:38]
B
Exactly. What we talked about at the end of last time's episode is this is just another example of such a specific detail about the day. Cinnamon puffins from Trader Joe's and the receipt that backs it up. Not to say that he lied about it, but it just seems so specific in a way that I would not expect someone who is dealing with the loss of their wife to be able to recall.
- [07:06]
A
Right. And a lot of this information actually comes out in Scott's first interview with the police, which is done, I believe, the night of the 24th.
- [07:13]
B
Right.
- [07:14]
A
And he is very specific. And, you know, we haven't released the first episode, but I guarantee you there are already people who are upset with us for presenting this as a negative for Scott that he remembers all this stuff. And I get it, there's some confirmation bias you always have to worry about here. Scott didn't remember anything we'd be saying, how can he not remember anything that happened on the day that his wife went missing? And since he does remember all this, we're saying how is it possible for him to remember such specific things the day his wife went missing? But once again, he's not just saying they ate cereal that morning. He knows the exact brand. And it just so happens to be the brand that she purchased the day before. Hard to say at this point which way this goes, but it certainly seems like the kind of thing where if you were fabricating a story and you're getting everything in line, this is a detail you would include to create that sense of veracity. I'm not going to attempt to use that word, that like 10 syllable word I tried to pronounce last time. But that sense of veracity that you're trying to do to imbue your story with believability, that's kind of what it seems like even at this early stage. And it continues before we get to some of that other stuff there. There was obviously a lot of computer forensics done on the computers at the Peterson household. On the computer. And the way it's put on this website is Lacy logged into the computer at 8:40 in the spare bedroom while Scott was in the shower. Obviously that's Scott's presentation of what happened. The reason people give to support that are the things that she looked at. She started the Microsoft Network homepage, MSN homepage. She checked out a weather site from Google and two. Or, excuse me, a weather site from Yahoo. And two Yahoo shopping sites were also accessed. And on those shopping sites, the things that were looked at were a red Gap scarf and a sunflower umbrella stand. Lacey was big into sunflowers. I believe she even had a sunflower tattoo on her ankle, perhaps. So the thought is these are the kind of things that Lacy would be looking at, not Scott. The way this is told on the website that supports Scott ends with Lacy logged off at 8:45. The prosecution brought out something else, however, which makes you wonder exactly what's going on on this computer. These searches were done at 8:42. At 8:45, an email address that was Scott's was accessed and an email was drafted from that account. So that makes you wonder who was using the computer at that time. Remember, the story is Scott's in the shower. So it's 8:40. The search is done at 8:42. The email address is logged in at 8:45. That's a pretty quick turnaround. Certainly possible that Scott got out of the shower, went to the spare bedroom, sat down and did this email immediately after Lacy was on the computer. The other possibility is that Scott was on the computer the whole time.
- [10:34]
B
I will say that those two things seem to be very juxtaposed to search for a scarf, which is typically, you know, affiliated with cold weather, and then a sunflower umbrella stand. Now, I understand that she likes sunflowers, but I think of sunflowers affiliated, like springtime or something like that. And maybe she has sunflowers all over her house. And it doesn't matter what season it is, but those two things just seem in conflict. You know, umbrellas, maybe it. Maybe it was raining that day. You know, a weather site was actually, we know it was not raining that day, but umbrellas I think of again in the springtime when it's raining a lot. Not something that I automatically think about needing in the winter time. Winter time, I'm thinking snow.
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A
And I believe these are actually patio umbrellas. Could be wrong about that. Somebody. Feel free to correct me if you want to, but that goes along with what you're saying.
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B
Again, outdoors.
- [11:28]
A
Yeah, exactly, outdoors. And the other interesting thing about patio umbrellas, and this is not the last time they come up. We're going to talk about here in a second, that Scott, that morning, loads some patio umbrellas into his truck, drives them to his warehouse, ostensibly to leave them there. Never Unloads them and then brings them back to his house. So patio umbrellas, umbrellas in general are something that are coming up once again. I guess it really just depends on how thoughtful and calculating Scott is that he would think to search for some items on the website that match Lacy. Right. Would he think to do that if he was in the middle of a murder? Or is it more likely that she actually conducted those searches herself? So that's 8, 45. Between 8. 46 and 9. 47, a bunch of things happen, according to Scott. So Scott gets dressed, and while he's getting dressed, Lacy is telling him about her plans for the day. She is going to walk the dog, she's going to the store, and she's going to make gingerbread. In fact, she needed to buy bread for the French toast they were going to serve at their Christmas brunch. When recalling this conversation, Scott called it cordon bleu French toast to one person and Grand Marnier French toast to another. Scott also mentioned that Lacy had to marinate the French toast. The recipe was on the kitchen counter when the police arrived. It was actually called creme brulee French toast. The recipe called for Grand Marnier, and the bread had to be marinated anywhere from 8 to 24 hours. And this is another thing. And I basically just read you verbatim from the website. That is pointed to by Scott's defenders as an example of. See, it was just a normal day and she's explaining all this stuff to him. But once again, what I gather from
- [13:31]
B
what you just said, Brett, is that a lot of things are mixed up right. About this French toast. I don't know by the. All the differences between those types of French toasts. And I. The point is, I don't think they're different types of French toast. It sounds like Scott read the recipe and got mixed up the recipes, the recipes, ingredients with the names, and kind of in a way that someone would if they didn't know how to make that French toast. And I don't know about you, but sometimes I'll tell. I'll tell my husband about what I'm gonna make for dinner or whatever. And he listens, but he doesn't know how to make what I'm making. Right. Whether it's my famous pumpkin bread or what have you. He couldn't tell you how to make those things. And he's never read my recipe, even though I do have placards of it. Right. And I can imagine if he had to explain it to someone, and he quickly looked at my recipe card, he would probably mix up some of the words and the ingredients and substitute them for other titles. That's what it sounds like is happening here. I don't think Lacey went into such detail as to say, hey, I'm making creme brulee French toast. And within it, I'm going to need Grand Marnier. Instead, I think she just said, hey, I'm going to make French toast. I'm going to need some time to marinate it. If she were to tell him. But instead, all the details that he jumbles sounds like someone who has mixed up details after reading a recipe that he's unfamiliar with.
- [14:56]
A
And I'm going to say this, and this is going to come as no surprise to you, but your husband is nothing like Scott Peterson is. The other thing, if you were to sit down and tell your husband exactly how you were going to make the French toast, I could imagine him actually listening to you and remembering some of those facts and maybe even jumbling them up. I'll just go ahead and tell you. Scott Peterson, not the kind of loving husband who is actually going to pay any attention to his wife while she's telling him in the morning about the French toast she's gonna make and what the ingredients are gonna be. He's gonna be on the phone texting with Amber then. Right? Like, his mind is going to be so far away from that circumstance. There's no way. And this detail that he's giving sets himself up as this loving husband. And you would expect him to give these kind of details immediately when the police have no idea that he's not a loving husband, that, in fact, he's having an affair. But this sets him up as the loving husband who's so involved in his wife's life, and he knew exactly what she was doing, and there's no way he would murder her. Right. I mean, that's what this sets up.
- [16:04]
B
Right. And by the way, also very convenient that the recipes. You know, this is another one of those things. Convenient that the recipe is on the counter. Now, of course, it also makes sense. If Lacey was going to make this creme brulee French toast, the recipe would be on the counter. But typically, if it were me, I would have the recipe out, but it would be next to all the ingredients laid out as well. And in this case, I think it was just the recipe. It wasn't like there was the ingredients next to it right?
- [16:35]
A
Now, I mean, I guess if you want to defend Scott, she got the recipe out, so she knew what Ingredients she needed to pick up at the store and just left the recipe there. I guess that's a possibility for what happened. But this is not the end of Scott's incredible memory and his. The coincidental things he says it just so happened to match up in a recorded phone call that he would make, because at some point, you know, his calls were being recorded, he talked to Lacy's mom, and he described Lacy that morning, and he said she looked so cute because she was sitting on her bench in front of the mirror, styling her hair the way Amy had shown her. We talked about this yesterday, that she went to the salon, that Scott picked her up there, that Amy had taught her how to fun flip her hair. And Scott had invited Amy over for pizza, but she couldn't come, and so. So they went home by themselves. Well, now he's saying that he saw her that morning sitting on her bench, styling her hair in that way. And sure enough, when the police showed up. There's a police photograph that shows Lacy's curling iron on the bathroom counter with a cord extended towards the outlet near the toilet where the bench was. And to make to just, you know, improve this even more for Scott, the housekeeper who'd been there the day before, Margarita Nava, testified that when she was there, there was nothing out in the bathroom. There was no curling iron on the counter, and the bench was not in the bathroom when she left. So the idea being Lacy woke up that morning, she brought her bench in, she brought her curling iron in, and she's curling her hair just the way that Amy had shown her.
- [18:18]
B
Now, I know we've been really hard on Scott. This particular detail. I don't know. Maybe it did happen. Occam's razor. It probably did happen. Right? Lacey probably did curl her hair at some point. But you can see how it's not these individual facts, but rather all of these different facts that have a convenient corroborating fact independent of his testimony. Just starts to seem a little bit suspect that everything matches up so perfectly, like a puzzle piece.
- [18:49]
A
Well, and I think a good lie, the best lies, there's very little lie, right? So the best lie is. Is 97% true. And it's really just the one point where the lie is. So you surround the lie with truth, and that way the lie doesn't seem so obvious. I think it's unlikely that Scott just made up two days worth of activities by Lacy. So some of these things could have happened the day before. Maybe some of them didn't happen at all. And if he's lying. He's putting all that together in a story that sounds plausible and that makes him sound like the good husband watching his wife, lovingly watching his pregnant wife, whom he loves so much, curling her hair and thinking just how cute she looks before he leaves the day and never sees her again. So at some point that morning, we're still in this period, 8:46 to 9:47. So about an hour period in the morning, Scott is outside, and I talked about this earlier, loading three patio umbrellas from the backyard into the bed of his truck. He would later tell the police that his intention was to store them at his warehouse. We mentioned before Scott was a fertilizer salesman. He had a warehouse that he worked at that had an office in it, and he would often store things there. His boat was there, for instance. His neighbor, Kristen Dimple Wolf, walked by while Scott was loading these umbrellas into the bed of his trucks. It struck. She said Scott was smiling and called out, good morning to her. Now, interestingly, Scott did not drop the umbrellas off at the warehouse. He drove to the warehouse with them in the back of his truck, drove with them in the back of his truck to the marina in San Francisco, and over an hour away, drove with them back to the warehouse, where he dropped off the boat and then carried the umbrellas back to the house. Basically, he just said he forgot about the umbrellas, and he never unloaded them at that point. According to Scott, after he had loaded the umbrellas into the car, he went back in the house and filled a mop bucket so that Lacy could mop the floor.
- [21:08]
B
And you know, what's interesting is you already said that the housekeeper Margarita, was at the Peterson home the day before. Now, maybe Margarita didn't mop the floor to Lacey's liking, But typically, I love the day after a house is cleaned or, you know, after. If I'm staying at a hotel, they clean it because it's clean. There's nothing I have to do. So that fact really did stick out to me, because why would Lacey, eight months pregnant, be mopping the floor if their housekeeper had come just the day before? That's the benefit of having a housekeeper, especially when you're so pregnant you don't have to do manual labor like mopping. I don't know if you've mopped a floor before, Brett, but it's hard work. There's a lot of bending down, too. Even though you think of a mop having a long handle, there's a good bit of bending down making sure that the Mop isn't dripping. You know, you have to kind of wring it out so there's force there. And then having to push it against the floor to properly mop the floor, it's not like pushing a Swiffer.
- [22:10]
A
Yeah. Now I have. I have mopped before. I have engaged in that kind of manual labor. My mom used to make me mop when I was younger. And this is. I don't know if I want to say it's the first thing that really makes you question Scott's story, but this is a big one. The reason this is important is when the police show up at the house later on, the mop is out in a bucket. And there's a question, what's going on there? Obviously, police being suspicious individuals, think, huh, I wonder if the mop's out because you use that to clean up the scene of a crime. Scott explains. No, as we said here, that he had filled up the mop bucket for Lacey so she could mop the floor. A couple things. The first one, Alice, you've just knocked out of the park. The maid had been there the day before. She had mopped all the floors. Why in the world is Lacy feeling compelled the next day to mop her floors? And not just any day, but on a day when she's eight months pregnant? She's not exactly in a mood, I would think, to do extra activities above and beyond what she had to do. Anyway, it's not as if they had some big gathering planned there where she just wanted to make sure things were spotless. There's no story about they're going to her mom's house. Exactly, exactly. There's no story that the day before Scott spilled, you know, pizza all over the floor and they had to mop. There's no reason for this to happen then. That's the first thing. And the second thing. And it's quite possible that the answer to this is just that Scott is a jerk of the highest caliber. But why would Scott leave his eight month pregnant wife to go play golf? Which is what he's gonna. He's going to say he was going to do and leave her to mop. Why wouldn't he do it even if the mopping needed to be done? Is that not something that Scott would do? Would he really leave Lacy to do that? And like I said, I realize I've basically already answered that question because he is a jerk. This is one place where him being a jerk may actually be helpful for him. But it is a very strange thing for Lacy to be doing and for Scott to let her do.
- [24:31]
B
Right. And you know, what stands out to me as well is that she is supposed to be making French toast that day. And it's not an easy recipe. Right. I know it calls for marinating from 8 to 24 hours. It doesn't mean you're actively cooking for 8 to 24 hours. But this is a more active recipe recipe, which means you're probably standing. I remember being pregnant and cooking and standing for any amount of time. My back would start hurting. And when I was done cooking, I'm like, you know what I want to do right now? Collapse onto the couch. Not then get up and mop after I've, you know, been on my feet. And so to have both activities, planning for that morning. You know, Scott is planning to come back that day. So why couldn't he mop when he came home? Why does he have to fill. She's so pregnant that he has to fill the bucket for her. But then. But then he doesn't do more than that. Filling the bucket. You know, sure, that might be hard. She could probably pull a hose over and do it herself. But the amount of time it's going to take to mop the floor is, I would think, more difficult in, you know, her state of pregnancy.
- [25:36]
A
And we'll return to this a couple times, things that Scott said Lacy was doing that day and the state of her pregnancy and sort of where she was at and the kind of things she would want to do. But this idea of Lacy being very pregnant and not really in a shape to do a lot of work will come back and we'll talk about that some more as we dive in to the evidence in this case. But it's something certainly to remember. The next thing became a big point in the trial. At 9:48am Scott told Detective Brookini that he and Lacy were watching first the Today show and then they had Martha Stewart on the television. Scott remembered seeing something on Martha Stewart about meringue and cookies, which once again, I mean, yeah, okay, now here's the thing. This actually became important because the prosecution attempted to use this against Scott because they wanted to say he was telling the police what had happened on the morning of the 24th. But in fact, this has happened on the morning of the 23rd. And Scott's attorney. Scott's defense attorney, Mark Garagos, in his opening statement, was able to play a portion of Martha Stewart from the 24th, where cookies and meringue were mentioned. And this actually became a big thing. It was sort of Embarrassing for the prosecution. They said it wasn't mentioned on the 24th and here it was mentioned. And the reason we have this at 9:48am and this is also important because Scott had told investigators initially that he had left his house at 9:30. And then he's saying that he saw something about meringue and cookies that did. There was discussion, very, very brief discussion. I've actually watched the clip and I've read the transcript of the Martha Stewart show for Both days at 9:48am they mention meringue and cookies. That absolutely happens. What's interesting about the Martha Stewart show is that on the 23rd they have an entire segment on cookies and meringue. So while she does say the word meringue one time in the 24th show, it seems to me that if Scott's talking about meringue, he's actually referencing the December 23rd show.
- [28:09]
B
And that's exactly what you were saying, that a good lie is 97% true. Because he himself probably did not watch Martha Stewart, but they probably did watch Martha Stewart on the 23rd. And he probably wasn't watching it. He probably was doing other things, but heard repeatedly over the course of an hour meringue and cookies. And he mentioned that because who's gonna go check that Martha Stewart actually talked about meringue and cookies on the 24th? Well, we did, yeah.
- [28:38]
A
And I think the transcripts for both these shows are available on one of the websites we're gonna link to. And you can read, you can read it and you can see it how often they, how in one show it's all about meringue, it's all about cookies. And then the next day they sort of mention offhand probably as a callback to what was doing on that, what they were doing on that earlier show.
- [28:59]
B
So, and it's unlikely that, you know, even if you're watching an hour long show of Martha Stewart, a lot happens in an hour long show for you to remember the one mention of merengue seems a little bit unlikely. Right. Whereas if an entire show is about meringue, for you to remember meringue, that makes a lot of sense.
- [29:20]
A
And I think this is also an interesting thing to think about. Just when you, when you out there in the world think about defense attorneys and the way they present their cases, when you're on the prosecution side, your job is to build a story based on evidence that explains everything you need to explain to get a conviction. On the defense side, your job is to create doubt, is to poke holes in that story, and this is such a good example of a defense attorney doing that. Scott mentions Meringue. In reality, it's almost impossible to believe, like Alice said, that of all the things that were said on Martha Stewart that morning, that he remembers the one mention of meringue and cookies, not all the other stuff they were doing while they were supposedly watching this show. But Garagos is able to take that fact, that lucky fact for him that Meringue was mentioned, and use it to poke a hole in the prosecution story. Because the prosecution got up there in the opening and said there was no mention of meringue on the 24th, so he must be talking about the 23rd. And even though he probably was talking about the 23rd because the prosecution had set the story up that way, it gave an opening for Garagos to poke a hole in the story and in doing so, cast doubt on the entirety of what the prosecution is telling the jury.
- [30:47]
B
That's a great point, Brett. And that's all it takes for the jury to then think, well, who knows, maybe that one mention of merengue is the one that he found. And Garagos didn't have to play an hour long Martha Stewart show from the 24th to show the jurors. Right. All he had to show was the one clip of Martha Stewart saying meringue, and he says, you know what date that was? December 24th, and moves on. So you can kind of see how the roles of the prosecution and defense are slightly different. I'm not saying one is necessarily harder than the other, but with respect to poking holes, that's really what you're supposed to do, poke a hole and get out. If you got a hole, then you win. You don't have to explain the whole thing. Then you have to leave the prosecution to explain that hole.
- [31:30]
A
Right? You just. All the jury has to do is say, man, if they got the Meringue wrong, I wonder what else they got wrong. I wonder where else they messed up. I wonder what else they're telling us isn't true. That's all you got to do if you're a defense attorney to really cause problems for the prosecution. If you've seen any of the documentaries on the Peterson case, you know, this became like a big thing when this happened. It was shocking. And everybody on the news and the 24 hour news cycle and all those things. So we're all talking about. About this incident, this very sort of minor incident that became important, right?
- [32:05]
B
And while we're on this topic, this is why we have character evidence. And we try to catch witnesses and lies. Right? Because what Brett just said is what attorneys try to do with witnesses. You try to discredit a witness by showing that they may have been inconsistent or lied and in some other aspects of their life. And so therefore, jurors, you should cast doubt on everything this person has said. Even if most people forget things at some point, right? If I, if I can't, I can't recount the same story exactly the same twice, Right? And that means it's probably the truth. But if there are any inconsistencies, a good attorney will seize upon that inconsistency and say, now is that an inconsistency or is that just a lie? Because you were under oath both times and your story is now different. And it may be the most insignificant fact that's different between the two testimonies. But that's what an attorney does to try and so doubt that this person should not be trustworthy. And the same goes for the prosecution broadly and the defense broadly. Now, Scott goes on with a pretty detailed timeline. Now we are going about 9, between 9:49 and 10:30 that morning, Scott said he left out the side French doors for his warehouse while Lacey was mopping. So apparently she was already mopping when he left. Now, Scott gave various estimates for when he left his house, all falling between 9:30 and 10:30. He made the nine minute drive to his warehouse, checking the voicemail on his cell phone at 10:08am and according to the prosecution, this call pinged the same tower that his calls from home always pinged, indicating that he was saying still at home or near it when this ping happened. However, by the end of the call, the call had actually changed to the tower near his warehouse. So just based on how the, the pings were happening, it sounds likely that he had left his home close to about 10:08, but that he really was driving to his warehouse. And that's why the ping changes. Now, Scott parked at his office and entered through the pedestrian door at 10:18. And this is not from Scott, but actually from a neighbor of the Petersons. One of their neighbors finds their family dog, Mackenzie, walking around with his leash still on. Now, the neighbor, being a good neighbor, puts the dog back in the backyard, leaving the leash still on the dog. Just thinking Mackenzie probably got out, the Petersons will find her and all will be well.
- [34:49]
A
And this, this is a really important moment and it's a moment that gets debated and discussed a lot. The neighbor is very certain that this was at 10:18. And if you believe. Let's just walk through the things that could be true. If you believe that Lacy was walking the dog and someone kidnapped her and the dog is left running free. That all had to happen before 10:18. It all had to happen such that the neighbor finds the dog still has the leash on, puts the dog in the back yard. If Scott's just leaving his house at 1008, that's a pretty quick turnaround. You have to think that he leaves at 10:08. Lacy's mopping, she finishes mopping, she puts the leash on the dog, she leaves, she gets kidnapped, the dog comes back, the neighbor finds the dog, the neighbor puts the dog in the back of the fence, all within 10 minutes.
- [35:47]
B
And the neighbor doesn't notice any sort of people around who may have just kidnapped Lacy.
- [35:54]
A
Right. One thing I've always thought was weird is that the neighbor didn't think it was strange that Mackenzie had her leash on.
- [36:00]
B
Right. Because my. My thought when I see a dog with a leash is that they ran away or something happened.
- [36:06]
A
Where's the owner? Right, Right. The dog has escaped and the neighbor knows that Lacy's pregnant. So I think it's a little strange that she did that, but that's what she did. And, you know, that's a pretty solid timeline. People who defend Scott have done a lot of work and we're going to talk about this later on, trying to upend this timeline, but if it is true that this happened at 10:18, it's pretty bad for the alternative Scott Peterson's storyline.
- [36:36]
B
Right now. Sometime between 10:30 and 10:56am Scott told the police that he checked his email at his warehouse. And he sent one email to his boss, who had left Scott a voicemail earlier. And now they also did computer forensics on Scott's work computer located at his warehouse. And it showed that Scott continuously logged onto his work computer for 26 minutes between 10:30 and 10:56. And during that time, he checked his email. He sent an email and he also looked up instructions on how to assemble a woodworking tool called a mortiser that he had just received by ups. Is it a mortiser?
- [37:27]
A
It is a mortiser. You. You nailed it.
- [37:29]
B
I have no idea what a mortiser is.
- [37:31]
A
It's a. It's a. It's a saw, like an electric saw of some sort. So I just want to, you know, I feel like we're being hard on Scott, so I just want to keep pointing out things that would be unusual if Scott had just murdered his wife. There's Pretty much no theory of this case. There's one theory that we'll talk about later, but there's no real theory of this case that doesn't have Lacy in the back of his truck or in the boat at this point. So Scott's driven to the warehouse. If you believe he killed her, he's put the umbrellas on top of her body, he's taken her to the warehouse, he's moved her body from his truck to his boat with the intention of dumping the body in the San Francisco Bay. You have to believe if he did that, that he also got on his computer, checked some emails, and looked up instructions on how to put together a saw at the same time. Right.
- [38:29]
B
I mean, do we know when his boss called him? Because what does strike me is he had sent an email just two hours earlier from home. Why he would leave his wife, who's mopping to go to his warehouse to then be on the computer for another half hour is a little bit strange because I guess maybe it is his work computer and he might have access to emails there he wouldn't have access to at home. It just seems like the point of that day was for him to go fishing, but yet he's there, you know, working on his computer and looking up woodworking tools when he could be fishing.
- [39:06]
A
Yeah, I mean, I don't know really how to explain it. I know. We know he checked his voicemail on the way over to the warehouse. So maybe the voicemail there was a voicemail from his boss and he felt like he needed to respond before he, he went out into the world. I don't know. It's hard to say.
- [39:23]
B
Wow. Anyways, from 10:57 to 11:17am there's approximately 20 minutes from when Scott logged off the computer to when he left the warehouse. Scott said during this time he cleaned up the office a bit and began assembling the mortiser. He opened the roll up door to the warehouse and unloaded some tools from the toolbox in the bed of his truck. Now, here's what's interesting. He's saying that he unloaded tool into the bed of his truck where the umbrellas were. But he said that he forgot about the umbrellas. So I can imagine forgetting that in the bed of your truck you have umbrellas. But then if you're putting tools into the bed of the truck, you would see them and think, oh, well, I don't need to leave them here. I'm already at the warehouse where they're supposed to be. You know, umbrellas are not that light that causes lag on your car, you know, can cause you to have less good gas mileage, especially when you're driving far and tugging a boat. So this kind of stands out to me that he is saying that he is working in the bed of his truck, yet he says he forgets about the umbrellas that are located there.
- [40:31]
A
Nothing about the umbrellas makes sense.
- [40:34]
B
Yeah, I'm just confused by the umbrellas.
- [40:36]
A
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. It's. It's one of the very weakest parts of his story, because if he intended to leave those umbrellas at the warehouse, it's impossible that he forgot them. Like you said, he's getting tools out of his truck. The umbrellas are right there. He's going to hook the boat up to the back of his truck. It's impossible for him not to notice the umbrellas. He's going to drop the boat back off at his warehouse, at which point he's going to have to unhook the trailer for the bed from the truck. How did he miss these umbrellas so many times? And he took the time to load them into the back of his truck, but then never unloaded them? It just. It's. It doesn't make any sense. It's impossible for him not to have noticed those umbrellas time after time after time. And you have to believe that each time he saw the umbrellas, he was like, oh, yeah, I need to unload those. And he just never did.
- [41:28]
B
Right. And now you might think, well, what's. What's the big deal? Okay, so maybe he forgot that he didn't actually mess with this toolbox in the bed of his truck. Ah, but you see, the toolbox is important to his story because he tells police that it was when he was working and pulling tools out of the toolbox that's located in the bed of his truck that he cut his knuckle on the toolbox. And so he then opened the driver's side of the truck to get a napkin and thought that maybe his blood would be found there. This is another example where he's trying to explain ahead of time it the police, I don't think, at this point have said, why is there blood found in your car? He preemptively says, now, because I caught my hand and I went to go get a napkin on the driver's side. You'll probably find some blood there if there's any blood there.
- [42:20]
A
And Scott, I believe, even mentioned this to someone else in the family at some point. He's like, oh, well, if they look in my truck, they're gonna find blood because I cut my hand and all this other stuff. Yeah, I mean, maybe Scott's read a lot of true crime books or seen a lot of true crime and knows that he's going to be the chief suspect. So he's immediately thinking, as his wife is missing and his unborn child is missing, he's thinking, well, what are the things that could possibly incriminate me? I need to make sure that I remember exactly what happened. Maybe he's doing that, but it doesn't seem like a natural human reaction. And like you said, he's got this, you know, neat and tidy. And you're going to see this as we go through this story over and over and over again. There are things that Scott does that seem unusual and he always has an explanation for him. Maybe, as I said at the beginning of the last episode, he's the unluckiest man alive. That's possible. But these things do kind of add up at some point, right?
- [43:21]
B
And like his other statements, there is support for Scott's statements. Evidence shows that Scott had just received the mortiser on December 20, and the mortiser was found assembled on a trailer in Scott's warehouse. So that does back up his story. And it matches up with the computer forensics of putting together the mortiser. And lo and behold, forensic testing also showed one drop of Scott's blood on his car door. And what that tells me is if they needed forensic testing to show that there was a drop of blood, it probably wasn't very visible. It probably was wiped away and not seen by the naked eye. And so Scott kind of took that extra step to say, now if you did forensic testing, you probably find my blood on the car door. And here's why. Now, Scott said he felt it was too cold to go golf, so he decided to head to the Berkeley marina to try out his new fishing boat. At this point, Scott backed up his truck, hooked up the boat and pulled it out of the warehouse. He then had to close the roll up door to the warehouse from the inside and exit back out the pedestrian door through the office. Brett, I have a question for you. If it's too cold to golf, is it much warmer to be on a boat, an open boat with no roof or windows on the water? That really sticks out to me a lot. That really sticks out to me. If it's too cold to golf, how can it not be too cold to be? How is it any warmer to be in an open air boat on Water.
- [44:58]
A
I may be the only person in true crime who never paid any attention to the Scott Peterson case. I don't remember the Scott Peterson case when it happened. I've never read a book on it. I never listened to a podcast on it, literally, until people really wanted us to cover this story. I didn't know anything about it. I knew that he killed his wife and he was convicted for it. That was my universe of knowledge. So I'm looking into this and I'm watching the documentaries, I'm listening to podcasts, and this point comes up and I'm like, there is no way. I mean, let's just take a moment, ladies and gentlemen out there. Let's have a moment. For those of you who have played golf and have been on a boat, if there is anybody out there who has ever thought it's too cold to golf, I'm gonna go get on a boat, please send us an email. I would like to hear from you, brave soul, because that is number one. Ain't nobody who plays golf ever thought it was too cold to play golf. That's the first thing, right? Like, I mean, my dad, I play golf like once a year, basically, when I'm drug out to do it. And my dad, who hates the cold, will play golf and just. It doesn't matter how cold it is. And I never understand it. I just can't. I can't understand it. So it's never been too cold to play golf, and it's certainly never been too cold to play golf. So, like you said, well, let me get in my small boat. It's not like he has a big boat and take it out into the San Francisco Bay, of all places, with the wind and the waves and the water and the San Francisco weather. It just. This part really makes no sense.
- [46:36]
B
And by the way, you're sitting still, I know golfing is not the most active sport, but you are walking, you are moving, you are at least swinging. Whereas if you're fishing, you're not rocking the boat right? You're sitting still and waiting for a bite. And so, yeah, you're sitting there freezing. Colder. Yeah, you're freezing. And it just seems like an odd choice to make if it's too.
- [47:02]
A
And people do that. I'm not saying people don't go boating in the cold. They do. It's the juxtaposition here. It's the relativity, the. It was too go. It was too cold for me to play golf, so I'm going to go out on a boat. It just. To me, unless Unless in Modesto, they close the golf courses if the temperature is below a certain amount, which, if that's true, please let me know, because that would answer a lot of questions for me. Unless that's true. I just cannot imagine anyone ever saying that.
- [47:34]
B
And then the other thing is, I mean, the Berkeley Marina is about an hour and a half. Is that right?
- [47:43]
A
Mm. Now, and 36 minute drive, the Berkeley
- [47:46]
B
Marina is about an hour and a half from the Peterson home. Now, Lacy is still, you know, several weeks away from her due date, but she's definitely in the third trimester. And if something were to go wrong, an hour and a half is a pretty far distance to be away. If you don't have to be away. It's not like he has to go there for work. He's just going for leisure. And furthermore, he's going to be in the middle of the bay. So he might have service, he might not have service. It's pretty remote out there. Remote in the sense that it's going to take him some time to get back onto land, hook up his boat, drive an hour and a half to get back to Lacy in case something was happening. She went into early labor, her water breaks, she falls and, you know, needs help getting back up. Anything can happen. It's just a pretty far distance to go when your wife is that pregnant.
- [48:40]
A
The interesting thing about this case is you can make the argument that Scott Peterson was convicted because he is an absolute jerk. And. But it is also true that the fact he is an absolute jerk, a selfish jerk, is his best defense. And you see this with Mark Garrigos. In his opening statement, he basically tells the jury, you're not gonna like my client. He is not a good person. He is a bad person. And he doesn't, you know, he. He has done awful things, and he deserves your scorn and everything else, but it doesn't make him a murderer. And all I can say is the best defense Scott has, he's just a complete jerk, and he doesn't think anything about Lacy. And if that means he's going to be an hour and a half away because he wants to go fishing that day, and he wants to go fishing in San Francisco, not at any of the lakes around Modesto. And he doesn't care that he's going to be that far away from his wife out in the middle of the water, by the way. It's not just that he's an hour and a half away in the middle of the water. And to my knowledge, I have seen no evidence of this. And I would like somebody to tell me if there's evidence of this one thing. It doesn't seem that Scott did. He didn't call Lacy and say, hey, I know you thought I was going to be golfing down the road, but instead I'm going to be an hour and a half away in San Francisco on the bay in my boat. So if you do fall down or if you do start to go into labor, don't call me because I'm not going to be close. He doesn't do that.
- [50:10]
B
Yeah, that's a good point. He doesn't even give her a heads up.
- [50:14]
A
Yeah. Doesn't even let her know that he's made this massive change of plans that he's gonna do this. To my knowledge, like I said, I would think that that would be something people would point to if he called her that morning and said, hey, change of plans, left a message. I've never seen anything like that. So at around 11:18, according to Scott, he leaves the warehouse to drive to the Berkeley marina. It's about an hour and 36 minute drive. The reason we know that 11:18 is a good time is because Scott pur a boat launch ticket at 12:54 when he arrived at the Berkeley marina. So the latest he could have left his warehouse would have been 1118. Scott actually gave this receipt to the police the evening of December 24th when they asked him if he had any proof he'd been at the marina. That may seem a little strange, but I assume the boat launch ticket's one of those things you throw up on your, your, like, dash your dashboard so people can see it through your, your window. So maybe it's just one of those things where he still had it. It wasn't something that he, he kept or whatnot. He, that's 1254. At some point thereafter, he launches his boat. Weren't a lot of people out at the marina that day? Number one, it was cold. Number two, it was December 24th. But there were a couple people who remember seeing him backing his boat down the boat ramp. He launches his boat at sometime after 12:54 and he brings his boat back in at around 2:11. It's kind of interesting because he drove an hour and 36 minutes to go fishing for an hour and 16 minutes. But in any event, he told the police that after he got his boat in the water, he headed north for probably two miles. He said there was a little island that had a bunch of trash on it. He saw a big sign that said no landing and noticed that there were some broken piers. He assumed this would be a decent, shallow area that maybe the fish would like. So he decided he was going to fish there. Now, he had bought some new lures from a place called big five, which were the sort of lures that would use in this kind of environment, a saltwater environment for the kind of fish you would have in salt water. In salt water. But much like the umbrellas, I guess he had forgotten those lures. And so all he had in the boat with him were some fresh water jigs and tackle that he got out of his tackle box. He threw those lures out into the water, trolled around a bit, and then decided to head back to the marina because, big shock, he was getting wet and it was cold outside. The island that he described turned out to be Brooks Island. There were evidence, photos that showed the trash, that showed the piers, that showed the no landing sign. And prosecutors did call some witnesses who testified that it was a shallow area era area around the island, and it wouldn't be a terrible place to fish. Interestingly enough, you may recall from our conversation yesterday, the area around Brooks island was one of the areas that Scott looked up on December 8th. Remember, all the way back on December 8th, the day after he decided to buy a boat, two days after he was confronted by Sean Sibley about whether or not he was married, and he told the story about how he had lost his wife. Brooks island was one of the areas that he had looked up at that time.
- [54:02]
B
And at that time, he had also zoomed in on Brooks Island. And what's interesting is he never calls this island Brooks island, He just describes it. But it sounds like, based on the nautical maps he looked up, he should have known it was called Brooks Island. Again, this seems to be One of those 97% true lie is a good lie, right? Sounds like he really was at Brooks Island. He could describe it perfectly. He probably even knew what it was called. But he left out the fact that it was called Brooks island, Even though he had looked up that specific island just a couple weeks prior.
- [54:41]
A
And you would think if this were a perfectly innocent excursion, that that would have been something he would have included for the police. He would have said, oh, yeah, I was always gonna go there. I knew Brooks Island. I had looked it up on my computer, so I knew exactly where it was, and I knew there were good fish there. But he presents it as well. You know, I put my boat out and kind of boated around, and I saw this place and thought, huh, well, that looks Like a good place to go fishing, and he went fishing there. That's the way he presents it. And that is not consistent with the knowledge that he would have had based on the research that he was doing on areas to, quote, unquote, fish. One thing that is true is he had bought those new lures. They were found by the police in his truck that evening, confirming that he had left them there. The fishing pole that Scott had purchased on December 20 did have a freshwater jig on it, and the tag was found in the bottom of the boat, indicating that he had used it for the first time that day. Though, let me just say this is always presented as confirming his story, but if his story was always, I'm going to have an alibi of fishing, he would have done all these things. In fact, leaving the. The lures in the truck is probably just a mistake. He probably. I mean, it's a mistake either way, right? It's a mistake if he was actually going fishing. It's a mistake if he was going to use fishing as covering up the fact that he had just killed his wife and was dumping her in the bay. So this doesn't actually tell you anything. The fact that he was telling the truth about the lures doesn't mean anything. It just means that was going to be his alibi. When Scott arrived back at the marina, he said he talked to a couple guys about fishing, and then a couple maintenance guys got a good laugh from him trying to back his trailer down the ramp to load his boat. There was the detective, Rick Armandarez, who interviewed a maintenance worker named Mike Ilvestri on December 27, 2002. He confirmed seeing Scott's vehicle and that the driver was having trouble backing the trailer in to get the boat out of the water once again. So, you know, this is. This is true, whether or not he killed his wife and dumped her body in the. In the bay or whether or not he went fishing. But it is something that's pointed out as confirming Scott's story. So go ahead and give that to you as well.
- [57:04]
B
What that does tell you, Brett, is that you said he fished for about an hour and 16, but it sounds like he fished for much less than an hour and 16 minutes because he was struggling with getting the boat out. We know that he left around 2:12, so it leaves less time for him to actually be in the water.
- [57:25]
A
That's a good point. That's a good point. Best case. Best case, you know, he was in the water for an hour and a handful of minutes. But if it took him a while to get his boat in the water and it took him a while to get his boat out of the water. That's 100% true. He, he was, he was not that committed to this endeavor. He had driven once again, I mean look, he's a jerk and I get that, but he had driven an hour and a half away from his eight month pregnant wife who was having some problems, to go fishing and then he spent 45 minutes in the water before deciding to return.
- [58:02]
B
So Scott said when he left the marina he called Lacey at home and on her cell phone. And based on cell phone records it appears that he left the marina around 2:12pm Now Scott also said that he called his friend Greg Reed and his parents on the way home and he said he got stuck in some traffic so it was taking him longer to get home. Now Scott's message was retrieved from Lacey's voicemail by Detective Al Brocini the evening of December 24th. We're gonna play this voicemail for you so you can hear the inflection and tone and demeanor of his voice. But what he's saying is the call in the voicemail is this. Hey beautiful, I just left you a message at home. It's 2:15. I'm leaving Berkeley. I won't be able to get to Vella Farms to get the basket for Papa. I was hoping you could get. I was hoping you would get this message and go on out there. I'll see you in a bit sweetie. Love you. Bye.
- [59:09]
A
And this is always a fool's errand to do this, but we're gonna do it anyway. We're gonna play this for you because once again one of two things is true at this point. Scott Peterson is a semi loving husband or he's murdered his wife and dumped her body in the bay. One of those two things is true. So listen to this call and see what you think about the inflection and then we're gonna talk about it afterwards. Hey beautiful, I just left a Message at home 2:15. I live in Berkeley. I won't be able to get to Novella Farms to get that basket for Papa. I was hoping you we get this message and go on out there. I'll see you in a bit sweetie. Love you, bye.
- [59:52]
B
End of message.
- [59:55]
A
Hey beautiful, I just left a Message at home 2:15. I live in Berkeley.
- [60:00]
B
I won't be able to get to
- [60:01]
A
the Villa Farms to get that basket for Papa. I was hoping you would get this message and go on out there. I'll see you in a Bit, sweetie. Love you, bye.
- [60:10]
B
End of message. So, you know, it is like you said, Brett Fool's Aaron, to try and decipher someone's meaning behind what they're saying. This may just be a loving message. That could very well be it. But it does sound a bit scripted and it sounds like it's hitting all the highlights that you would want for an alibi a little too quickly. You know, I've had cases where I deal with falsified information, in fact, falsified calls, falsified recorded calls, meetings where someone is saying, no, no, you have to believe me. I have. You know, I. I can prove it. I have a recording. And the recording just sounds fake because it hits everything like the who, what, when, where, that police would want to know within the first couple sentences, right? A normal conversation has a flow to it. But here we have Scott saying right away the time, it's 2:15. Where am I? Oh, I'm leaving Berkeley. So those are all my alibis timestamps to corroborate an alibi. And now, sure, maybe that's what you would say. But why do you have to say it's 2:15? I know what time it is when I'm checking a voicemail or when I see what time a missed call was. Here's what's weird to me. He never tells her that we know of, that he changed his plans to go to Berkeley. So why would you start with I'm leaving Berkeley? You would first say, I'm really sorry I didn't tell you, babe, I didn't go golfing. Instead, I went to the Berkeley marina. So I'm actually leaving Berkeley now. I'll be home, you know, in about, ugh, traffic's bad. Two hours, that would sound more realistic. But if I'm expecting you to be coming from golfing, I'd be very confused by this voicemail when you're saying, I'm leaving Berkeley. What? Why Berkeley? What are you doing over there?
- [61:56]
A
Yeah, I mean, just imagine this. Wherever you live. Wherever you live. I mean, say you live in Washington, D.C. and the time's probably not exactly right. But imagine, you know, your wife or your husband calls you and leaves a message. It's like, hey, honey, I'm leaving Richmond. I'll see you soon. And they never told you you were going to Richmond. You'd be like, what were you doing in Richmond? I mean, that's really kind of crazy, right? I feel like this is something nobody ever points to. And once again, I haven't seen it. If somebody can point Me to where Scott supposedly called Lacy and told her that he was going fishing that day. I'd love to see it, because I've never seen anything about that. And like Alice said, you've got him calling her and just casually dropping the fact that he's an hour and a half away. I mean, that's crazy. But he's supposedly doing that.
- [62:47]
B
And here's why we think that she thinks he's golfing. Remember the night before he told Amy, when he invited Amy over to watch TV or hang out and eat pizza, that he was playing the golf the next morning. So Amy was there with Scott and Lacey. So if Amy heard this, Lacy would have heard it as well. And it's Scott who says that he decides at the warehouse, you know what? It's a bit too cold. I'm gonna test out my new boat instead. So he, by his own words, is saying that he made the decision last minute to go boating, to go fishing instead of golfing. So that sticks out to me sorely. I am leaving Berkeley. Never even told you I was going to Berkeley.
- [63:29]
A
And I think. Honestly, I think that's the best way to look at this is the sort of weird things that he says. Because it is always dangerous to try and figure out whether or not what someone is saying or the way they're saying it is unusual. I will go ahead and walk into that danger zone a little bit. When I hear this message. It sounds fake to me. The part where he says, I won't be able to get to Vella Farms to get the basket for Papa, it just feels fake. And I'll give you a couple examples. There are times when we're recording this show that something will happen with our sound. Now sometimes you just have to deal with it. Like we had a couple episodes ago, we had this weird interference that we had to take out. And so Alice was. Sounds like she's broadcasting from the bottle of a whale. And a whale either to draw water or a whale that swims in the ocean, Whichever one. Jonah and the whale here, there's. But sometimes when it's just like a couple minutes, something wacky happens. We will re record what we said. So one of us will sit down and just re record what we said, and then we'll just stick that into the episode.
- [64:36]
B
Oh, I know where you're going with this.
- [64:38]
A
You probably can't tell, but I can tell. I can tell.
- [64:42]
B
I sound totally stilted, right?
- [64:45]
A
You sound stilted when you. When you're doing it recorded because you're trying to not Sound stilted. You're trying to have like the uhs and the ums in the right place and the pauses in the right place and your voice rising at the right place. But because you're doing it consciously, your voice sounds stilted. He sounds that way to me in this call. To me, this sounds like a call where he is making the call not to deliver information, but to make sure the call is recorded and that the things he wants to get out there are out there. That's what I hear when I hear him on this call.
- [65:21]
B
Right. And it's very convenient that, you know, I see the purpose of this next line every. If this is in fact trying to be an alibi and it's not a real call, this purpose of I won't be able to get to Vella Farms to get the basket for Papa ties in how he had offered the day before to Amy to pick up this basket, but then to show how. How could I possibly know she was missing. If I'm asking her to go do something, I'm expecting something of her again. Maybe he's a terrible husband, but here she is, she's been cooking and mopping all day, and now she has to go fight traffic to go pick up a basket, you know, right before they have to go over to Christmas Eve dinner at her parents home. That I would be more apologetic in the call. If that were me, I'd say, I'm so sorry. I. I completely miscalculated time. I was on my own joyride in a city I didn't even tell you about, that I was going to. And now I'm forcing this, you know, this errand on you. I'm really sorry. You've been working all day for us, you've been mopping for us, you've been cooking for us, and now you have to go get this basket that I said I would go get. And this whole time I've just been fishing. Sorry about that, babe. I know you're gonna be mad at me. I'm really sorry. I messed up. That's a more realistic call, right?
- [66:36]
A
The Scott is a jerk argument has to do a lot of work for you in this case. And this is just yet another place where you need the Scott is a jerk argument to do a lot of work. Because not only does he do this to her, not only does he screw her over and put her in the situation, but like you said, he's not apologetic about it at all, which doesn't even make sense because a good manipulator, as we've seen with Scott is apologetic when they need to be. And this is the place where you need to be apologetic. You ran off to Berkeley to take your boat out without telling your wife about it. Because you did that, you're now an hour and a half away. And oh by the way, the other thing you promised her you would do, you can't do. And even better, you now need her to go do it. And there's not a single word of apology in this voicemail.
- [67:23]
B
And here's one other thing we know it's 2:15. One very important piece of information is left out of here. And it's left out of here because it's not important for an alibi. He does not estimate for her when he's getting home. And here's why. He doesn't need that for his alibi. But that is a very important piece of message because he knows that they're supposed to go to his in laws house for dinner that night. If it's 2:15 and an hour and a half isn't going to get him home, he's getting home closer to 4:30 close to dinner time. And so you would think he'd say I'm gonna be a little bit late. But don't worry, I know I was fishing all day. I'm gonna jump in the shower, I'm gonna be dressed, I'm gonna be ready to go to your parents house. I'm not gonna be late. I'm really sorry. Thanks for putting up with me. That is an important piece of information. If this is a real call that is completely left out. All he says is I won't be able to make it to Vella Farms. I don't know what that means. How late are you? Are you five minutes late? Are you 20 minutes late? Did you fall in the water? So you're really smelly and you need to get home and take an extra long shower. Why? These are all important things to convey in this message. Especially because it's Christmas Eve and they have plans that night. Plans that he's butting up against due to his running late.
- [68:33]
A
Right. All he says is I'll see you in a bit. What is it called him back? It doesn't say. I mean he even says when he's talking to Al Brokini he's telling him that he got stuck in traffic. That's an important piece of information for her to know because even if she does the math in her head. Well he called me at 2:15 Berkeley's. He's somewhere near Berkeley. Which is an hour and a half away. I guess he'll be home around 4. Right. The fact he's stuck in traffic could affect all that. But there's just nothing. There's just nothing there. So I don't know. It's pretty interesting. Listen to it. Think. Think about it. Let us know what you think about it. I think this is a good place for us to stop for the day we have. If you think Scott killed her, then pretty much the deed is done. She's been killed and the body's been dumped. He is on his way back. If you don't think he killed her, then he's about to walk in to a nightmare. He's about to get home and he's about to realize that something is horribly wrong. We'll pick up with, with that the next time. We will finish up the timeline for this day and we should. We'll finish up the timeline next time and we'll get into the prosecution case and we'll start talking about the evidence other than the stuff we've already talked about, the evidence against Scott and whether or not it adds up to guilt. Well, Alice, is there anything else you want to add before we sign off for today?
- [70:11]
B
That's it. I will say I did not go into this meaning to be so hard on Scott Peterson. It wasn't that I went in. Brett can tell you, when we were watching the documentary, I kept texting him, being like, Scott probably didn't do this. But as I dig into the inconsistencies and his story, it just doesn't add up.
- [70:34]
A
No. And we, you know, we watched the documentary. We've looked into this a lot and we've heard from you guys and we've heard about the things that concern you. And we're going to do our best to address those in a way that hopefully will be helpful for you in sort of deciding whether you think there's an innocent man sitting not currently on death row. We'll talk about that some later, but certainly in a California prison for the rest of his life. If you have thoughts already, hit us up@Prosecutors podmail.com @ProsecutorsPod on all your favorite social media sites. Join us on Patreon if you hate ads. You know, on Patreon we will give you a ad free version of this. We're also doing some get vocals. So if you want to talk about stuff, we're going to do Patreon Patron only get vocals. So you can ask us any questions that you've been, you've been wanting to know also, you know, we've got the store. All proceeds from the store go to the Cold Case Research Institute. I hope you will support that. Hello to Everybody watching on YouTube. I think that's all we have for today. Keep sending us those messages, keep leaving those Apple reviews. We appreciate every single one of them. That's all we have today. We will catch you next week. But until then, I'm Brett.
- [71:54]
B
And I'm Alice.
- [71:55]
A
And we are the prosecutors. Before we get started, did you see Hannah's newest artwork?
- [72:22]
B
No, I hadn't. Actually. I was thinking about her yesterday. I was like, oh, did you tell her? I'm sure it's beautiful.
- [72:28]
A
It's great. She's so good.
- [72:30]
B
No, she is. Because she captures the. The heart of the case.
- [72:36]
A
Yeah.
- [72:36]
B
In a way that, like, look at him. Where is it?
- [72:40]
A
She sent us more Murray, Missy Beavers and.
- [72:44]
B
Oh, there we go.
- [72:44]
A
My trees Richardson.
- [72:46]
B
Yeah. Oh, wow. Missy viewers is good.
- [73:09]
A
Sam. Oh.
- [73:53]
B
Oh, these are good. More Murray's really good. Oh, these are great.
- [73:59]
A
And that was perfect timing. More Murray because we got the. More Murray.
- [74:02]
B
Yeah,
- [74:04]
A
she's really good. Her association with us gets her some sort of, you know, acclaim or something.
- [74:28]
B
Sam.
- [74:58]
A
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