← The Psychology of your 20s
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- [00:00]
Gemma
This is an I heart podcast. I truly don't think I've ever had as many events as I do right now. And Nair's shower cream has been not just a lifesaver but a time saver as well. Because I don't know about you, I just can't be bothered with shaving anymore, especially as I've been trying to move house and do a million other things. Nair is the number one hair removal brand and their body and shower creams. Firstly they actually smell delicious whilst working so well to get rid of all of my hair. When I'm tight on time, I use the shower cream in infused with coconut oil and it's also so gentle on my skin, I feel so silky afterwards and it's free of dyes, parabens, phthalates and sulfates. So get ready for summer buy now at all major retailers.
- [00:47]
Robert Lamb
Hey, this is Robert Lam and this.
- [00:48]
Joe McCormick
Is Joe McCormick and we're the hosts of the Stuff to blow your mind podcast. We've got an exciting week ahead for you on Stuff to blow your mind. It's Cat Week. That's right. To coincide with International cat Day on August 8th, we're dedicating every episode in the Stuff to blow your Mind podcast feed to your cute, mysterious feline companions. So tune in for core Stuff to blow your mind episodes on the earliest archaeological evidence for domesticated cats and the folkloric cats of the British Isles.
- [01:16]
Robert Lamb
The week's monster fact will focus on a popular cat creature and you better believe weird house cinema will cover some kind of head scratching cat movie. So tune in August 5th through 8th for stuff to blow your mind's Cat week. Find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [01:37]
Sarah Spain
Get fired up, y'.
- [01:38]
Gemma
All.
- [01:38]
Sarah Spain
Season 2 of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people, an incomparable soccer icon Megan Rapinoe, to the show and we had a blast. Take a listen. Sue and I were like riding the lime bikes the other day and we're like wee.
- [01:55]
Gemma
Like this is People ride bikes because it's fun.
- [01:58]
Sarah Spain
We got more incredible guests like Megan in store, plus news of the day and more. So make sure you listen to good Good game with Sarah Spain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network.
- [02:14]
Noah de Barrasso
I'm Noah and I'm 13 and I started this podcast because honestly, adults don't ask the right questions. Now You Know with Noah de Barrasso is a show about influence. Who's got it, how they use it, and what it means for the rest of you. It's not the news, it's what the news should be if someone Gen Z or Gen Alpha made it. Politics is wild and I'm definitely not here to tame it, but I'm here to make sense of it. Listen to now youw Know with Noah de arrasto on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [02:45]
Gemma
Hey, it's Gemma and I have something really special to share with you. I'm hosting my first ever virtual live video podcast. Not a pre recorded episode, not a highlight reel, but a real time face to face moment where we get to connect, laugh and kind of just reflect together no matter where you are in the world. Plus, I'm hosting a VIP after party for my inner circle where I will be answering your questions and getting to talk to you guys even more. It's happening August 12th at 7pm Pacific Time or August 13th at 12pm if you live in my hometown of Sydney, you can grab your ticket now at PAVE Live. I cannot wait to see you there. Hello everybody, Hi and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s. The podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. You guys know the deal. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we of course break down the psychology of our 20s. Before we get into it, I just want to let you know that this episode does touch on disordered eating, weight loss, and discussions of food and calories. I know that this can be a sensitive topic for some people, so please just consider whether you are ready for an episode like this, whether it is something you need to hear today. It will still be here in a week, in a month, in a year when you are ready to hear it. But until then please take care of yourself and we will have links to services and resources below. But hello everybody. Today we are serving up a topic that touches literally everyone every single day, often without us truly grasping its real impact. How the very food we eat directly shapes our mood, mental clarity, and overall emotional well being. Now this is something that I've been very interested in personally for a while, but I've always kind of held off on doing an episode about it because I'm not a nutritionist. I'M also not a doctor, so I wanted to make sure that we got some good researchers in and that we had all the essential research together, because it is kind of a sensitive topic and one that people can very easily become misinformed about. But from a personal level, this is something that I endlessly fascinated about. I have spent so much time tracking, considering, thinking about what foods make my brain feel sharper, lighter, more energized, and what makes me feel bad in my body, what scrambles my brain, what makes my health feel worse. I have never been one to track calories. I probably never will. But I do track how my mood responds to what I eat, whether I feel foggy, irritable, or alive and present. And turns out there's a lot, and I mean a lot of science behind these reactions that is so fascinating to dive into. The truth is, your brain is not a solo act like we typically think that it is. It's actually in constant conversation with another major organ, your gut. I think a lot of the time we ignore the psychological role of food. We say it's just fuel or it's something to restrict for weight loss, or it all comes down to calorie content. But your breakfast, your lunch, your dinner choices subtly impact your daily emotional landscape. That also impacts your resilience to stress. It may even impact your risk of anxiety and depression. This is all coming down to a very emerging field called nutritional psychiatry, which basically says that when we examine our food, we learn more about how our brain operates the way that it does. So in today's episode, we are going to unpack what exactly this gut brain axis is. Why your microbiome matters way more than you think it probably does, why it's important to take care of it, how to take care of it, and of course, how certain foods on your plate might influence your mood in ways that you've never even noticed. We're also going to explore how mood affects food. So things like comfort food, how community and culture play a role in what foods we choose to consume, and the dangers of villainizing certain food, labeling certain foods as either good or bad, and why people may think that that represents clean eating, healthy eating, a way to properly fuel your body, but can actually have the opposite effect. How we talk about food, the labels we give, it impacts our psychology just as much as the nutritional content of the food. So there is so much to break down, so much to acknowledge in this episode, and I think we clocked over, like, 50 research papers contributing to this, to this one episode. So you're Going to get a lot of information all in one go, which is of course always our intention. So without further ado, let's get into how food affects our mood. Stay with us. Okay, so if we are going to talk about the psychology of food, we actually have to move away from the brain for a second and talk about another essential organ, that being the gut. Let's waste no time here. We're going to jump straight into this thing called the gut brain axis. So the truth is, is that we often think about our brain as the sole command center for our thoughts and our emotions. It's kind of been how we've been taught to see it. The truth is your brain and your gut in constant communication. The gut brain access is basically this intricate superhighway that is constantly filled with information traveling in both directions between your digestive system and your brain. And it involves several key players which we're going to break down. The first is the vagus nerve. This is the longest cranial nerve. It run runs directly from your brain stem, so at the bottom of your skull down to your abdomen. You've probably seen people talking about this more and more recently. There's been a few very famous books on it in recent years and how learning more about your vagus nerve can calm your anxiety, calm stress, but beyond that, it's basically just a direct high speed information pipeline that transmits signals about gut sensations, inflammation, even the microbial state, which in turn does end up influencing stress response and emotional regulation. For instance, researchers just recently suggested and found that disruptions in vagal tone, basically that's like the activity in the vagus nerve, have been implicated in anxiety and depression. Because it has such a critical role in physiological and psychological arousal and also in our well being. It also plays a really important role in the parasympathetic nervous system, which is basically the part of our nervous system which, which helps to regulate stress throughout the body, stress and our alarm response. So if something with this nerve isn't working, it can make it harder to bring ourselves down from a state of alarm, from a state of arousal or stress, meaning that our anxiety and fear response lasts longer. The next key component of the gut brain axis are neurotransmitters, the chemical messengers that basically allow for the cells in our body to communicate with each other. You probably learned about neurotransmitters in science class, specifically their role in the brain, but nobody probably told you where they actually come from. It was like they exist and then this is their function. For me, that was the extent of my curriculum, even when I studied psychology at university. I don't think anyone ever said in a lecture where neurotransmitters came from. They were just kind of existing, and we just examined what they did. But one guess where neurotransmitters are made. Your gut. Your gut produces a significant amount of the very neurotransmitters that regulate your mood, specifically around 95% of the body's serotonin, basically our feel good hormone. This feel good hormone is actually made in the gut by a specific kind of cell called enterochromafin cells. I'm going to say it again, enter chromophen cells, which basically secrete and produce serotonin whilst they are in the gastrointestinal tract. Your gut microbes also play a really vital role in producing dopamine is another one. Gaba is another one, which you've probably heard about before. They're all very crucial for mood stability, for pleasure motivation and anxiety regulation. So if your gut microbiome is imbalanced, neurotransmitter production can suffer, and that's what's directly impacting your mood. The third and final component in the axis is of course, the gut microbiome, which we've already kind of mentioned. You may associate, like the microbiome with things like kombucha, things like yogurt, probiotics. It's always mentioned in marketing for those kind of products. Basically the way to describe it is that your gut microbiome is like a bustling metropolis. It's like a big city of trillions of bacteria and fungi and other microorganism in your intestines. People always worry about bacteria and they think that it's like this terrible thing. That's why we use hand sanitizer, that's why we need to wash our hands, Whatever. Bacteria is actually very important for our survival as humans. And we have millions, if not billions of different types of bacteria in our body at any given time, including in our microbiome. And that's why the microbiome is called the second brain, because it's these microbes that actively communicate with our central nervous system. They produce various compounds as well, including short chain fatty acids. You cannot live and exist without these acids. And they also are one of the only products that can cross out the blood brain barrier to directly influence brain functioning and to directly help with inflammation in the brain as well. A lot of very long words, very complicated words, but when we talk about gut health, I just basically want you to know we're not just talking about food. We're not saying candy makes me feel bad. And that's just because of what's in it. It's because of the interaction it has with our gut. This is actually a really foundational pillar of mental wellbeing. Not the only pillar, but a very foundational one. And knowing about the gut brain link can actually fundamentally shift how you approach meals. And it's about feeding your mood as well as your hunger. So let's explore maybe some specific components of things to put on your mood menu. What are some of those foods to really lean into and to really consume more of from the perspective of providing your brain with the optimal power to support the gut brain axis. One of the most powerful sources of fuel for your brain health is complex carbohydrates. Those that are found in whole grains like oats, brown rice, in legumes, and also in most fruits and vegetables. Unlike really simple sugars, carbs that are complex provide a really steady release of glucose. Glucose is the brain's primary energy source. So if you have a long lasting source of this, it helps prevent blood sugar spikes and crashes that can make us really irritable, make you really tired, make you really anxious. Also because they're rich in fiber. That also, again, is beneficial for our gut bacteria because it acts as a prebiotic. Prebiotics and probiotics. I think we should actually just take a hot moment and give them a dedicated shout out in this episode because they are some of your biggest allies in maintaining a really optimal, stable, healthy gut brain relationship. Probiotics are like they are live bacteria. It's live bacteria that is found in fermented foods like yogurt, kimchi, sauerkraut, kombucha. They actively replenish and diversify your gut microbiome directly supporting your health, your health. So think of it kind of like watering a plant. Watering a plant, fertilizing a plant. This is what probiotics are doing then. Prebiotics, specific types of dietary fibers that also feed your gut bacteria. It's found in things like garlic, in onion, leeks, asparagus, unripe bananas. You need that as well. To thrive. You need a prebiotic, you need a probiotic. But you can also more often always find them in whole foods. I feel like they're often sold to us in a tablet form. You don't always need that. You can get it very easily from a lot of natural sources. We also have omega 3 fatty acids. These are essential for brain structure, connectivity and neuroprotection against Inflammation. If you don't have omega 3 fatty acids, the myelin sheath on your neurons basically on the axon, is going to not be able to replenish itself as easily, meaning that the connectivity between different neurons gets kind of frazzled because the message kind of gets lost along the way. So omega 3 fatty acids are found in things like salmon, sardines, chia seeds, walnuts, flaxseeds, also super foundational to brain cell function. 2023 study published in the Journal of Personalized Medicine looked at a sample of 165 patients suffering from mild to moderate depression. Participants were kind of randomized. They either received an Omega 3 supplement, an antidepressant, or a combination of both. Participants who took both the antidepressant and the Omega 3 tablet showed a significantly higher improvement in depressive symptoms compared to those who just took either the supplement or either the antidepressant alone. Basically, it's not about only choosing one thing. That's a really important thing from this study that I think we can take away. Choosing one thing is obviously better than choosing nothing. But it's when we combine these different health interventions. It's when we combine modern medicine and the ancient medicine of our food. Okay, this next thing, I'm going to sound like such a gym bro, but you got to lean into your proteins as well. They are very crucial for our brain health. I feel like protein is having such a moment at the moment. Things like chicken, eggs, tofu, lentils, beans, turkey. You guys know what protein sources are. But the reason they're so vital is because protein is broken down into amino acids, which are the literal building blocks for your body's neurotransmitters. For example, tryptophan is an amino acid found in almost every single protein. It is a direct precursor to the creation of serotonin in your gut. You literally cannot make serotonin without tryptophan. So having that adequate protein intake really rigorously supports stable mood and cognitive function if you're someone, like, if you're a vegetarian. People are always talking about protein in terms of iron and in terms of energy levels. But you also need it to be happy. You need it so that your mood can properly stabilize itself. There's also the essential micronutrients, which I feel like don't get enough attention, but are very, very vital for the biochemical reactions going on in our brain. Things like B vitamins, vitamin D, often called the sunshine vitamin, which can reduce inflammation in the brain, support brain development, support neurotransmission. Without vitamin D, People sometimes suffer from what we know as the winter blues. Not just because it's depressing when it's dark outside all the time, which is like a natural consequence of that, but also because there may be a serious vitamin deficiency. I think someone was telling me the other day that in the uk, like the NHS or like some health body, like, recommended that everyone be taking a vitamin D supplement. I may be totally off the mark here, but that is how crucial it is. Magnesium as well. I take magnesium supplements for sleep. It is like the one supplement I truly swear by. I swear by it. When I started taking it, I've never slept better and I've never looked back. It is incredible. And also the final one for your brain health is zinc, which is basically the one ingredient we need for synaptic plasticity. It helps our brains adapt, it helps them connect, it helps them learn. This sounds overwhelming. I totally get you. I feel like I'm sitting in a science or health class and a teacher is at a whiteboard, like, screaming out, I don't know, like, the functions of different vitamins to me, and I have to write them down on like a cue card. But when I first started learning about this stuff, I also was like, I have no idea what I'm doing. I have no idea how I'm gonna remember all this. No idea what the perfect balance is gonna be. I really did think, like, I need to completely overhaul my diet, like, I need to completely change everything. But it's actually a lot less complicated than you think. You probably are. Also, unless you're eating processed food for every single meal, you are probably already hitting the majority of these things. It's just about fine tuning things and it's just about coming back to these core pillars and just reminding ourselves about why they are so important. You just basically just have to find the balance that works for you. Because good food, even if it's not the best for you, is also a source of community. It's also a source of connection and pleasure. It can be a hobby. And yes, there is some science behind it that is very, very important and very crucial. The science isn't the only thing that matters. And I don't want that to get lost in all the scientific terms and all the definitions. So we are going to talk about balance. We're going to talk about how to integrate a better mixture of ingredients and things with nutritional value without losing joy. And also the dangers in vilifying certain foods, because every single food, unless you are allergic to it, does have a place in our overall Diet. So we're going to talk about all of that and more after this short break. Hey, it's Gemma and I have something really special to share. I'm hosting my first ever virtual live video podcast. Not a pre recorded episode, not a highlight reel, but a real time face to face moment where we get to connect, laugh, reflect, and honestly just kind of be in it together, no matter where you are in the world. If you've ever hit play on an episode of the psychology of your 20s or mantra and thought, I really wish I could just talk to Gemma about this right now, this is your chance. We're diving into the messy, beautiful chaos of your twenties, you, your thirties of life and beyond. And yes, you get to be right there with me. There's a live chat so we can talk in real time. And afterwards, I'm hosting a private VIP party, my inner circle, we would call it, where I'll be answering your questions and getting even more personal. It's happening August 12th at 7pm Pacific Time, or August 13th at 12pm if you're in Sydney or Australia. So mark your calendar, tell your friends, grab your ticket now at PAVE Live. I can't wait to see you there.
- [24:08]
John Fry
This is John Fry from ok, Storytime. Are you an aspiring singer songwriter? Let me ask you a question. What do Cardi B, Mozart and you, yes, you listening right now, all have in common? I would like to see all of their music performed live. But why am I saying this? Because if you are a music artist, you have the chance to perform at the legendary iHeart Theatre this fall. Because TikTok Live and iHeartRadio are teaming up to present NextUp Live Music, a nationwide search for the next wave of original music artists. All you need to do is go live on TikTok and post a video performance of your own original song using the hashtag NextUpLiveMusic. Auditions are open now through August 11, so don't wait, y'.
- [24:44]
Gemma
All.
- [24:44]
John Fry
I wanna see you get this opportunity. You could perform on Stage at the iHeart Theater in Los Angeles this fall and even get your track heard on radio. And if you win, you'll be nominated for live Creator of the Year. So go on TikTok right now and post with the hashtag NextUpliveMusic before August 11th. Again, that's NextUpliveMusic only on TikTok.
- [25:04]
Robert Lamb
Hey, this is Robert Lamb and this.
- [25:06]
Joe McCormick
Is Joe McCormick and we're the hosts of the Stuff to Blow youw Mind podcast. We've got an exciting week ahead for you on Stuff To Blow youw Mind It's Cat Week. That's right. To coincide with International cat Day on August 8th, we're dedicating every episode in the Stuff to Blow youw Mind podcast feed to your cute, mysterious feline companions. So tune. Tune in for core Stuff to Blow your Mind episodes on the earliest archaeological evidence for domesticated cats and the folkloric cats of the British Isles.
- [25:33]
Robert Lamb
The week's monster fact will focus on a popular cat creature and you better believe Weirdhouse Cinema will cover some kind of head scratching cat movie. So tune in August 5th through 8th for stuff to blow your mind's Cat Week. Find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [25:55]
Unknown
So what happened to Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.
- [25:59]
There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.
- [26:05]
Gemma
Left a woman behind to drown.
- [26:08]
Unknown
There's a famous headline, I think in the New York Daily News it's Teddy Escapes, Blonde Drowns. And in a strange way, right, that's sort of tells you the story really became about Ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become President?
- [26:22]
Kappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control.
- [26:27]
Gemma
And he's not the only Kennedy to survive a scandal.
- [26:30]
Unknown
The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.
- [26:40]
Gemma
Listen to United States Joseph Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [26:51]
Dr. Lea Trittate
Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going.
- [26:53]
Robert Lamb
Through something like that is a traumatic experience.
- [26:56]
Gemma
But it's also not the end of your life.
- [26:59]
Dr. Lea Trittate
That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Lea Trittate. On my new podcast, the Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of black girls mothering as resistance and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [27:54]
Gemma
When it comes down to the psychology of food, people always want to know what is the best diet to be on? What should I be doing? I kind of hate the word diet because it kind of suggests like a fad, crash and burnout change that isn't sustainable. So let's say food lifestyle. What food lifestyle is the best to emulate? We did our research, we looked far and wide, and let me tell you, the consensus time and time again is that the Mediterranean diet is the one that stands out and is also importantly the one that is least restrictive compared to things like keto or whatever else you're thinking of. The Mediterranean diet emphasizes whole unprocessed foods. Plenty of fruit, vegetables, legumes, nuts, seeds, olive oil, fish, poultry, a little bit of red meat, also like a little bit of added sugar. Basically think foods from Greece, think Italy, think Spain, including the desserts, including the tasty treats, including the pastas and the pizzas and the big feasts. And you are in the right area. This diet is the one that delivers a full spectrum of brain supportive nutrients and it's really great, not just for you physically, but for you mentally. For example, a 2009 study from researchers at the University of Navarra looked at the dietary patterns of over 10,000 university students, 10,000 over a period of four years. And what they found is that students who most closely stuck to a Mediterranean Mediterranean diet pattern had a 42% reduced risk of developing depression. It's not just a collection of healthy foods. It is a synergistic way of eating that can really nourish your brain and your mood. I think also beyond just making certain dietary choices and food choices, it's also about being more connected to our food as a whole and noticing instead of ignoring when you have a certain reaction or a mood shift after a certain meal, do like your own test. If you're unsure whether this is right for you, whether this food lifestyle is right for you, have a Mediterranean based meal for or try to eat in a Mediterranean manner for a day, then eat how you normally would for the next day and then try something completely different and just run your own experiment on yourself. Was there a change? And if there is, surely if it's a positive change, that's something you want to continue to do. If you have the opportunity to feel less crap, surely that's the avenue that you want to take. I Feel like people can say all that they want, people can make recommendations, I can make recommendations. And yet if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. So if you're unsure, try it out on yourself. Just see how it shifts your mood, see how it shifts your comfort levels, your energy levels, and then you can base your own behaviors based on the results of how you've like conducted this on yourself. Now, we've talked a lot about how food affects our mood and which foods kind of do that best. But this is bidirectional. So how does mood affect our food choices? We've all, I think, found ourselves reaching for a specific food when we are stressed, when we are sad, when we are bored, when we are overwhelmed, not primarily because we're physically hungry, but because we are seeking comfort or distraction. This is emotional eating. It serves as a coping mechanism or a learned response where food becomes something that offers, I don't know, I guess emotional comfort, and it becomes a stand in for more adaptive ways of processing difficult emotions. On a deeper level, it actually seems that our brains and our bodies crave certain foods more based on our emotional state. For example, when we're stressed, studies have shown we have an increased appetite for sugary and fatty foods, probably because these are easier for our body to convert into energy, which of course, it needs more of when it's under stress. Chocolate in particular is like the one food our brain really wants us to eat more of, possibly because it's got fat, it's got sugar, it's delicious, it's high in calories, and again, under stress, our brain requires, I think, about 12% more energy than normal. Something that's high in fat and high in sugar. High in, high in glucose is a great source of that. When our mood is really low and really sad. We're also more drawn to carbs as well. And there was this research from 2020-1220-2012-2012 that basically said things like pizza, potatoes, pasta, they're all comfort foods and they do actually kind of improve our mood, but only for a second. And they can lead to sugar spikes, they can lead to glucose spikes which make us more irritated or more tired. And the problem is, is that that can become a cycle. And it's this weird question that a lot of people in the nutritional psychiatry space have. Is that is it the food affecting the mood or is it the mood affecting the food? And it's kind of like a chicken and an egg problem. If you're saying that someone's diet is contributing to Their depression, but their depression is contributing to their eating choices, which is contributing to their depression. Firstly, where do you intercept in that place? And also, how do you know where that started? Was it that the mental health disorder already existed or was it that the diet came first? So is important not just to draw immediate conclusions from this research and suggest that it's saying, yes, if I eat processed food, if I eat sugar, I am going to be depressed or I am going to be anxious because it is, again, bidirectional. There's also a science as to why we feel drawn to specific foods when we want comfort, and why each of us has a really nice personal preference for our favorite meal and what we want on a rainy day, and what we want on our birthdays and what we want when we we're going through a breakup. And it's driven by a combination of factors. Firstly, obviously, we really love things that are high sugar, high fat content, but we also really like satisfying textures. So creamy or crunchy foods typically are those that show up more in comfort food items and also foods that have a strong association with positive past memories, particularly, you know, your grandma's apple pie, your dad's spaghetti Bolognese. They did this research, I think, I don't remember the exact year, but they did this research that basically said that the comfort food we had as children typically ends up being the same comfort food we have as an adult, which I think is quite beautiful. A lot of the food that we eat, that we really enjoy is often deeply tied to positive memories from our past. These conditioned kind of associations mean that simply the sight, the smell, even the thought of these foods can evoke feelings of security and love and happiness. And they act as really powerful emotional anchors. And this is when it's important to acknowledge that food enjoyment, the happiness that is brought from food, isn't just limited to healthy items or those high in a specific nutritional value. There is a lot of happiness and joy and legitimate pleasure to be found in foods that technically might be described as indulgent or unhealthy. And it would be short sighted to ignore those foods and say that someone, you could have someone who eats like the cleanest that you have ever seen, but actually maybe less healthy in terms of their mental health than someone who eats completely clean, but then also really enjoys eating like their mom's carbonara or really loves to indulge in chocolate cake, I don't know, once a week, twice a week, because that brings them happiness. Sometimes food can be nourishing not just because of nutritional Value is basically what I'm trying to say. It can be nourishing because of the memories attached to it, but also because of like the company that you're in when you're eating it. Like it has the power to nourish the body and the mind and the soul. That's why it's such a beautiful, powerful kind of medicine. I think at this point, I do think, you know, we can't go any further without saying, whilst the food we eat is important, it is incredibly dangerous to suggest or to swing too far the other way and attribute everything about our mood or our mental health solely to diet and therefore feel like if we ever touch anything with artificial sugar or anything that is processed, you know, our brain is doomed. Food is medicine, but it's not just medicine and it's not the only medicine. And if we believe that it is, I think we risk really overlooking complex underlying health issues that demand professional medical intervention and not just dietary change. I'll say I think I eat very, very healthy. I eat mainly whole foods. I still have OCD and I still have depression and I take my supplements. Those things didn't, like, aren't going to cure me because this is a chronic illness that I have and I wouldn't want anyone to take what I'm saying here and say, well, obviously that means that anyone who has a mental health condition could change it and they're choosing not to. If their diet is in their power, which again, it sometimes isn't always, well, then what's their excuse? If someone is genuinely suffering and is told, you know, just eat clean and you'll feel better when they're actually grappling with a severe depressive episode or an undiagnosed chronic illness, it's very harmful. And this oversimplification can lead to, I think, significant delays in receiving appropriate care, prolonged suffering, and it can potentially even worsen the conditions trajectory and also someone's trust in the medical system. Imagine experiencing, you know, debilitating fatigue and mood swings and all you're told repeatedly is just to eat more, eat more grains, cut out all sugar, and then you do that, but nothing changes. Then A, sometimes you're going to have that experience where, you know, a medical professional doesn't even believe that you're doing those things, so you feel dismissed because they are so sure that diet will change things for you and then when it doesn't, well, you must be the factor that has gone wrong in that equation. B, you can feel hopeless that you've done what was asked of you. And it didn't help. So there's no future hope for you to do anything else. And C, you can also cut too much out and end up with malnutrition or a whole other series of problems. It kind of reminds me of one of my friends who, she was diagnosed with chronic fatigue a few years back. And I'm sure she doesn't mind me talking about it here, but she started to go to therapy to be able to deal with the emotional weight of it all. All the therapists seemed to be able to talk about was whether or not she was taking her vitamins, like literally every session. Not, let's talk about the huge weight of this condition and how it's impacting you and how you feel like you're behind and you're missing out on your 20s, not, you know, how does this impact your relationships, your social life? It was just like, have you taken your vitamins? Are you putting in like proactive steps? And it was like, she was, and they weren't helping. And she would actually just like come away from every session feeling a lot of guilt and a lot of shame. This feeling of being unheard of, having your suffering minimized, like I said, it can deeply erode your trust in the medical system and it can leave people feeling really, really isolated and really hopeless. And if we over attribute everything to diet, this is going to happen more. Also, we have to be careful about talking about good versus bad foods when we talk about the psychology of food and how it affects our mood. Even when approached with the best intentions, labeling foods as good or bad can quickly slide into a very problematic, psychologically confusing, psychologically damaging arena where we are attaching morality to inanimate items. When certain foods are deemed as bad or dirty and others grouped as good, we inadvertently start moralizing our eating habits. Pure versus dirty, good versus bad. This isn't just about nutritional science anymore. It's about right and wrong. The food you eat reflects your moral character. It reflects how sinful you are, your virtue, like moral decisions. And that can really damage our psychological relationship with food. And it can be really judgmental, really, really judgmental. It also might trigger avoidance of certain foods or of certain social events or spaces where those foods are present. Which means that, yeah, you're going to suffer. Even if you're eating all these amazing whole foods that are good for your brain and you're eating the quote, unquote good, clean, pure foods, your mental health could still suffer because you're missing out on the richness of life in other areas. And you're restricting. A particularly like insidious consequence of these restrictions can include progressively more disordered eating, such as orthorexia nervosa. Orthorexia. It's not yet a formal diagnosis in the DSM 5, but it is a proposed eating disorder that is characterized by unhealthy, obsessive preoccupation with healthy or pure eating. And often I was reading this account from someone who works in eating disorder wards in the uk. She says a lot of people who have anorexia nervosa or bulimia nervosa end up developing orthorexia nervosa as they slowly exit that previous disorder. Because orthorexia is kind of easier to disguise and more socially acceptable. It's just replacing one type of restriction for another. But because we've attached all these moral and ideas to what kind of foods we should eat and we shouldn't eat, sometimes people don't notice that being obsessed with clean eating is just as sometimes problematic as being obsessed with not eating at all, or being obsessed with food in any kind of psychologically damaging way. So if diet advice is absolutely everywhere, and sometimes even unhelpful or harmful, how do we effectively deal with people who seemingly think they know what's best for us when it comes to our diet? It can feel incredibly invalidating. It can feel intrusive, it can frankly feel pretty annoying if you haven't invited commentary on it. Now, if you're at your doctor's office and you're saying I want to make changes, or can you make suggestions for areas where I may have nutritional deficits or may need to increase the intake of certain things, obviously that's not going to be harmful. Not every mention of diet or food is going to harm every single person. We're talking about strangers, we're talking about family members, we're talking about friends who just kind of can't keep their mouth shut when it comes to what you're putting inside your body. When someone comments directly on what you're eating or takes like a bit of a superiority stance on how their diet is so much healthier than yours, it just, you've got to know that it comes from a place of insecurity and potentially over monitoring from them. If they're commenting and trying to control what you're consuming, you can only imagine how much they're controlling and restricting their own diet. Because honestly, who really cares enough to outwardly comment on what other people's eating behaviors reflect unless they are the ones who are consumed by it in their personal lives. Providing someone with unsolicited advice is everything about them. About their beliefs about food, about their consumption of diet, culture, about what others have maybe said to them in the past, and very little to do with you because also they don't have the full picture. We are all so incredibly unique. We all have different deficiencies and nutrition levels and underlying health differences or intolerances underlying relationships with food, either positive or negative. It is no one's business to give you advice on something you never asked for, especially not something as emotionally charged as food. If someone offers you this kind of interjection, it might be worth responding something like, that's an interesting perspective. For me personally, I'm just focused on what makes my body feel good these days. Or saying something like, oh, I know you mean well, but comments about eating on my body aren't particularly helpful for me, so could we change the topic? You don't owe anyone an elaborate explanation on your food choices, your body, your choices, your health journey. The most powerful tool is often to just really set a clear kind of but firm boundary that allows you to reclaim autonomy over your personal health narrative. The same goes for commentary on the Internet. So how can we translate all of this knowledge into actionable steps? How do we continue to build a relationship with food that truly supports our mental wellbeing from our gut to our culture to our personal choices? I think it's about moving away from rigid rules, more towards a place of intuition, respect, information, education, and just like holistic balance. The more you know about this, starting with resources like this podcast, starting with books from health professionals, starting with reading the academic research yourself. The more you're able to make informed choices, the more you actually just notice your own body as well. That's like your biggest source of data. That's your biggest. The best research that you can kind of perform is on yourself. I think a great way to embrace this is through mindful eating. Through just slowing down, not restricting, not cutting anything out, just paying attention to your body's signals of hunger, signals of fullness, signals of energy, signals of sluggishness. Savor the textures, savor the smells, savor the taste. Put away distractions like your phone or your TV. Do not eat. Watching YouTube. I'm sorry, but it is so such an easy way to disconnect you from the natural feelings and relationship we have with our food. Same with eating in front of a tv. I've been trying so hard to do this. I also have this practice that I've been trying recently where Every time I take the first bite of my food, I try and imagine what it would taste like. Like, I try and imagine this is the first ever food I've tried. Like, this is the first time I'm experiencing any of these new flavors, any of these new sensations. Like I'm an alien who is trying their first ever, like, human Earth meal. And it kind of like, it's strange, it's fun, which is also always good to bring some fun into any thing in your life. And it really reconnects me with my body's wisdom and its natural enjoyment and curiosity around food and what it wants to enjoy, what it wants to eat, what it wants to fuel me and what it doesn't. Also, let's just really try to consciously change the language we use to describe food. I need to do this as well. I'm sure I've slipped up during this episode, but just actively identify and question any things that you call good versus bad, pure versus evil, clean versus dirty, any of the labels that you've assigned to food. All foods can fit into a balanced diet. Releasing those moral judgments about eating will also significantly reduce feelings of guilt and shame and really foster a more peaceful, sustainable relationship with food. They say the easiest way to let something control you is to try not to think about it and to try and avoid it. So if you're constantly trying to avoid a food you deem as bad, as bad, or, I don't know, dirty or not clean, like, it's gonna constantly be popping up in your mind and it's actually going to control you more compared to if you just freely let it be part of your life and just enjoyed it every now and again. Okay, we are going to take another short break, but when we return, we have some very interesting listener questions, including whether men and women should approach their diets, slash food, lifestyles differently, whether there are certain foods that make our mood worse and where alcohol kind of plays a role in this equation. So stay with us for more after this short break.
- [49:11]
John Fry
This is John Fry from ok, Storytime. Are you an aspiring singer songwriter? Let me ask you a question. What do Cardi B, Mozart and you, yes, you listening right now. All have in common? I would like to see all of their music performed live. But why am I saying this? Because if you are a music artist, you have the chance to perform at the legendary iHeart Theater this fall because TikTok Live and iHeartRadio are teaming up to present next up, live music, a nationwide search for the next wave of original music artists. All you need to do is go live on TikTok and post a video performance of your own original song using the hashtag NextUp. Live music auditions are open now through August 11, so don't wait, y'.
- [49:47]
Gemma
All.
- [49:47]
John Fry
I want to see you get this opportunity. You could perform on Stage at the iHeart Theater in Los Angeles this fall and even get your track heard on radio. And if you win, you'll be nominated for Live Creator of the Year. So go on TikTok right now and post with the hashtag NextUp Live Music before August 11th. Again, that's hashtag NextUp Live Music only on TikTok.
- [50:07]
Robert Lamb
Hey, this is Robert Lamb and this.
- [50:09]
Joe McCormick
Is Joe McCormick and we're the hosts of the Stuff to Blow youw Mind podcast. We've got an exciting week ahead for you on St. Stuff to Blow youw Mind. It's Cat Week. That's right. To coincide with International cat Day on August 8th, we're dedicating every episode in the Stuff to Blow youw Mind podcast feed to your cute, mysterious feline companions. So tune in for core Stuff to Blow youw Mind episodes on the earliest archaeological evidence for domesticated cats and the folkloric cats of the British Isles.
- [50:36]
Robert Lamb
The week's monster fact will focus on a popular cat creature and you better believe weird house cinema will cover some kind of head scratching cat movie. So tune in August 5th through 8th for stuff to blow your mind's Cat Week. Find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [50:57]
Dr. Lea Trittate
Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going.
- [50:59]
Robert Lamb
Through something like that is a traumatic experience.
- [51:03]
Gemma
But it's also not the end of your life.
- [51:05]
Dr. Lea Trittate
That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co president of this organization, Dr. Lea Tritate. On my new podcast, the Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week I sit down with people who've lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of black girls mothering as resistance and and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to the Unwanted Sorority. New episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [52:00]
Unknown
So what happened to Chappaquiddick? Well, it really depends on who you talk to.
- [52:04]
There are many versions of what happened in 1969 when a young Ted Kennedy drove a car into a pond and.
- [52:10]
Gemma
Left a woman behind to drown.
- [52:13]
Unknown
There's a famous headline, I think in the New York Daily News, it's Teddy Escapes, Blonde Drowns. And in a strange way, right, that sort of tells you the story really became about ted's political future, Ted's political hopes. Will Ted become president?
- [52:27]
Kappaquiddick is a story of a tragic death and how the Kennedy machine took control.
- [52:32]
Gemma
And he's not the only Kennedy to survive scandal.
- [52:35]
Unknown
The Kennedys have lived through disgrace, affairs, violence, you name it. So is there a curse? Every week we go behind the headlines and beyond the drama of America's royal family.
- [52:45]
Gemma
Listen to United States of Kennedy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back. We have three really great listener questions today to finish off our episode on the psychology of food and how it affects our mood. Questions that cover topics and cover kind of avenues of this topic that we have not even discussed yet. So this is a whole new, whole new level to this topic, beginning with this first question from Isabelle in Vancouver. There is so much noise online about the harms of ultra processed food food, dyes, sodas, etc. And I was wondering, is there actually science to whether this food makes our mental health worse or is it just classic online fear mongering? I know you'll get to the bottom of it. Love the podcast. Thank you. Thank you, Isabelle. Let's break this question down like you said, based on the evidence, based on the science. Firstly, when we're talking ultra processed food, think packaged candy, instant noodles, fast food. These have been linked in multiple studies to poor mental health outcomes. We're just going to start from there. Now we know the correlation doesn't mean causation. And so to blame mental health issues squarely on ultra processed foods is probably not correct. But there have been a few studies which do say it increases the risk, including a 2022 study published in Public Health Nutrition that found that people who consumed the highest amounts of ultra processed foods had a significantly higher rate of experiencing depression and anxiety symptoms. They kind of linked that mechanism to blood sugar spikes and crashes, to chronic inflammation and of course, disruptions in the gut microbiome. That's what they were saying the food was, that was what it was responsible for creating which then created the depression or the anxiety so it's a mediating factor. Basically, you know, our guts are these very ancient systems and they aren't meant to process strange chemicals that don't exist in the real world. And so when our guts, you know, encounter these chemicals, they kind of don't really know what to do with it and they can become a little bit confused. That is what causes like the uproar in the stomach. And that is what causes what this study suggested as the issues later on with psychological symptoms and psychological arousal. Another study from 2023, this study I think is more rigorous. It had about 23,000 participants. And it did also find that a diet high in ultra processed food elevated psychological distress in participants, which as a result is a precursor to depression. So again, it's not a direct factor, it's a mediating or moderating factor, primarily because of what they said was increased inflammation in the brain. But it's also hard to rule out other factors, like is it because people who are living in poverty objectively, you know, don't have as much money for whole foods and for fresh fruits and vegetables, so they rely more on ultra processed foods. But also because they're living in poverty, they're also more likely to have higher rates of mental health disorders. So it's not the food that's causing the depression, it's the poverty that's creating both the depression and the food choices. Or is it because people with depression find it easier to rely on ultra processed food because it requires less effort when everything else in their life feels very hard to accomplish? So again, it's not that the food is creating the depression or the food is creating the anxiety, but other factors. I also think with all the stuff online that we hear about ultra processed foods, obviously it's important to consider the science and the fact that there is evidence to suggest that ultra processed food doesn't exactly help us, but at what level does it start to harm us? That's another question that researchers haven't really been able to answer. Is it any processed food? Is it once a week? Is it twice a week? The fact that there isn't like a specific level upon which ultra processed food and its contribution to your diet becomes dangerous and people haven't been able to target that shows that this is still very much based on so many other individual factors. So my advice would be to consult a dietitian. If you think ultra processed food is an issue for you, consult a registered dietitian as well. But otherwise take what you read online with a large pinch of salt, especially if People are only talking about their own experience because as we can see, it is going to differ from person to person. And ask people, their sources if they're going to make large scale claims, make sure they have evidence to back it up and investigate the evidence as well and just do what's best for you. You know, a candy bar isn't going to kill you unless you choke on the wrapper. A can of Coke Zero or Sprite or whatever it is isn't going to kill you. I know it's going to sound so cliche, but again, it's all about balance. Next question comes from David. If our brains and stomachs are connected, surely when we get drunk, digesting alcohol the next morning also contributes to us feeling bad. What's the impact of booze in this situation? You know what, David, great question. I had honestly never thought about this. I kind of always just thought of alcohol as influencing the mind only, but I went searching for an explanation for you. So alcohol, as you may know, increases intestinal permeability. Basically, you might know it as leaky gut. Leaky gut is what allows toxins and inflammatory molecules to enter the bloodstream and to kind of trigger a systemic inflammatory response. This inflammation is what affects the brain via the gut brain axis. And it can worsen symptoms like anxiety like fatigue and brain fog. Studies have also shown that alcohol can alter the gut microbiome and damages the gut lining. Alcohol is also quite acidic. So when it sits in the stomach, not that it can damage it, but it is a little bit harder to process. Think about how our body processes something that's acidic. It has to find another, an equally counterbalancing chemical with acidity in it or acid or bile. And so it can kind of just lead to an imbalance of a lot of different things in your stomach. It's probably one of the major reasons why hangovers feel so physically and mentally brutal. I feel like also tmi, but if you get really drunk, you can kind of notice that in terms of your bowel movements, movements like the next day, so there's obviously something going on. And if you're throwing up, if you're feeling really ill the next morning, if you're nauseous, all of those are signals from your gut to your brain, like something is wrong. And so if you can consciously tell something is wrong, that means your brain is seriously like in overdrive up there trying to control whatever's going on in your stomach. So a paper I did read though said this is not pleasant and it's not comfortable in the short term, it might contribute to why you feel terrible the day after you drink, but it does take a lot of drinking for this to become severe. And for alcohol to truly damage your intestinal tract and your stomach and your gut, you have to be engaging in some pretty significant alcohol consumption over a number of years to really mess up the gut brain access. But it does still happen, and especially with the amount of binge drinking that goes on in our 20s. If you're worried about it, trust your intuition there and maybe pull back. But yeah, great question. And we have one final question actually from an anonymous listener. I feel like different food affects me at different times based on where I am in my menstrual cycle, especially since I have pretty bad pms. Is there any research on what foods to eat depending on which phase you're in? Just had to stick this one in here because I feel like this is a really great example of a question that combines food, combines hormones, and combines our mind and the brain. And the answer is that yes, the foods you eat at different phases does impact how you're going to feel. This is where the concept of cycle syncing with your food comes in. Some people do it with their exercise, but basically cycle syncing is where you change your daily routines and your daily behaviors based on kind of which phase you're in. Because often our moods and how our body feels can be a great indicator of what our body actually needs from us in terms of fuel. In the menstrual phase, when you're on your period, estrogen and progesterone are at their lowest and that often leads to lower energy, fatigue, potential mood dips. That's why we really crave things like chocolate and fatty foods and sugary foods. As we said before, they have a natural comfort element to them. But of course, because blood is also being lost around this time, our levels of iron are also depleted. So you want foods rich in iron, like red meat, lentils, spinach, they're really recommended. And also foods rich in magnesium can actually support muscle relaxation, reduce reduction, cramping. So think dark leafy greens and nuts, but also things that are high in natural sugar, so fructose or just the occasional treat, because it's going to make it feel a little bit easier and make it more enjoyable for you as you move to the follicular phase. After your period and until ovulation, estrogen slowly rises again, bringing with it increased mental clarity. You're in a better mood, probably feeling pretty sexy, feeling pretty, I don't know, feeling pretty romantic. Here, your body is in need of lighter and vibrant, more vibrant foods. So broccoli, cauliflower, kale, berries, which can help with hormone regulation and metabolism. Also lean into your proteins, lean into your complex carbs. They're really key for supporting rising energy levels for the ovulation phase when obviously estrogen and energy levels peak. It's really important to feed your body easily digestible foods like fresh fruit and vegetables. The gear here is really colorful produce to help support your cells and to support the growth of new cells as you finally move into your luteal phase where progesterone is dominant. Estrogen dips. This is obviously the phase that is most commonly associated with PMS symptoms like mood swings, irritability, anxiety, fatigue. Within this phase, research shows us that you're really going to want something salty. You're really going to want complex carbs, things like oats, things like sweet potatoes, things like dark chocolate. They are all recommended to help support the production of serotonin and prevent rapid sugar dips that could just make your irritability and just all those emotions that you're feeling worse. I think it's just really empowering to know how to work with our bodies and adapting our nutrition to our personal needs and what could nourish us without being restrictive. So as we finish up this episode, I just want to make it very clear. Food and mood are linked through the gut brain axis. We know that it's very complex. It is not the only thing going on. Our brain is also an organ that has things going on separate to the stomach that can impact the mental health issues that we're facing and the mood instabilities that are afflicting us. So if anyone ever says you can change your entire brain and your whole life just with food, unless you have a severe allergy, that's probably not the case. Make sure that this is part of a, of a very like, holistic and diverse nuanced perspective on this. Don't let people shame you for your food choices. As much as we've had a very in depth discussion here, none of this is prescriptive. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. And that doing what's best for you is always going to be better than any recommendation that someone might give you that isn't individualized and isn't personalized. So just keep that in mind. But I do hope this episode at least gave you something to think about, gave you some more information. I want to thank Elizabeth Colbert, our research assistant, for her contributions to this episode and all the papers and all the research that she looked into to make this as comprehensive as possible. If you did enjoy the episode, make sure to share it with a friend. Share it online on Instagram, I don't know, on LinkedIn, Pinterest, wherever. You share the things that have inspired you recently so that we can bring some new listeners to the show. Make sure you get your tickets for my virtual live show, which is happening next week. I literally cannot wait. I could meet as many of you as I possibly can in that virtual room, and so I hope to see as many of you there as possible and ensure that you are following me on Instagram. Thatpsychologypodcast. If you want a summary of this episode, if you want to be able to contribute a listen, a question, or for whatever reason, if you've made it this far, I want you to leave a broccoli emoji down below. Actually, no, we did that one the other day. Guys, I'm losing track. What's another food that we talked about here? Leave a little dark chocolate emoji down below. I feel like dark chocolate was the star of this episode. And until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle with yourself. Don't let anyone tell you what to eat or when to eat it unless they are a very qualified doctor or a very qualified individual. And we will talk very, very hello my lovely listeners. By now you know the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are. And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have. Learn more@planb1step.com users directed.
- [67:20]
Robert Lamb
Hey, this is Robert Lamb.
- [67:22]
Joe McCormick
And this is Joe McCormick, and we're the hosts of the Stuff to Blow youw Mind podcast. We've got an exciting week ahead for you on Stuff to Blow your Mind. It's Cat Week. That's right. To coincide with International cat Day on August 8th, we're dedicating every episode in the Stuff to Blow your your Mind podcast feed to your cute, mysterious feline companions. So tune in for core Stuff to Blow youw Mind episodes on the earliest archaeological evidence for domesticated cats and the folkloric cats of the British Isles.
- [67:50]
Robert Lamb
The week's monster fact will focus on a popular cat creature and you better believe weird house cinema will cover some kind of head scratching cat movie. So tune in August 5th through 8th for stuff to blow your mind's cat week. Find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [68:11]
Sarah Spain
Get fired up, y'.
- [68:12]
Gemma
All.
- [68:12]
Sarah Spain
Season 2 of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people, an incomparable soccer icon Megan Rapinoe to the show and we had a blast. Take a listen. Sue and I were like riding the lime bikes the other day and we're.
- [68:27]
Gemma
Like wheel like this. People ride bikes because it's fun.
- [68:32]
Sarah Spain
We got more incredible guests like Megan in store, plus news of the day and more. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network.
- [68:48]
Noah de Barrasso
I'm Noah and I'm 13. And I started this podcast because honestly, adults don't ask the right questions. Now you know what Noah de Barrasso is a show about influence.
- [68:56]
Gemma
Influence.
- [68:57]
Noah de Barrasso
Who's got it, how they use it, and what it means for the rest of you. It's not the news, it's what the news should be if someone Gen Z or Gen Alpha made it. Politics is wild and I'm definitely not here to tame it, but I'm here to make sense of it. Listen to now, you know with Noah de arrasto on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.
- [69:18]
Gemma
This is an iHeart podcast.