Loading summary
Transcript37 lines
- [00:00]
Gemma
This is an I Heart Podcast.
- [00:04]
Podcast Host
Hello my lovely listeners. By now you know the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are. And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where Plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have.
- [00:39]
Gemma
Learn more@planb1step.com users directed there's nothing like sinking into luxury.
- [00:46]
WashablesOfSofa Advertiser
At washablesofas.com, you'll find the Annabe sofa which combines ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. And get this, it's the only sofa that's fully machine washable from top to bottom. Starting at only $699. The stain resistant performance fabric slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Annabe has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Right now you can shop up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop now@washablesofas.com Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [01:46]
IBM Representative
So your AI agents, they make the team that uses them more productive, right? But if they aren't connected to other agents or your data or your existing workflows, how productive can they really make your teams? Any business can add AI agents. IBM connects your agents across your company to change how you do business. Let's create smile to business IBM.
- [02:14]
TiVo Advertiser
Looking for entertainment everyone will love? TiVo plus has you covered with over 300 free channels. From movies for family night to kids shows, live news, sports and your favorite TV series all in one place. No signups, no credit card required. Just turn on and enjoy. And with new channels and fresh content added all the time, there's always something to watch. TiVo plus free, binge worthy and always on. Check us out@tivo.com what happens when Delta.
- [02:45]
Gemma
Air Lines sends four creators around the world to find out what is the.
- [02:50]
Podcast Host
True power of travel.
- [02:52]
Gemma
It's these small moments of intention, right?
- [02:54]
IBM Representative
Not just people to places and destinations. It's connecting people to other people, other cultures and ultimately experiences that can't be replicated.
- [03:04]
Gemma
Find out more about how travel can support well being on this special episode of the psychology of youf 20s presented.
- [03:10]
Podcast Host
By Delta Fly and Live.
- [03:11]
Gemma
Better listen wherever you get your podcasts.
- [03:18]
Podcast Host
Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s. The podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
- [03:36]
Gemma
Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, it is so great to have you here back for another episode.
- [03:48]
Podcast Host
As we of course break down the.
- [03:50]
Gemma
Psychology of our twenties. Today, my friends, is our second ever bite sized bonus episode. If you missed the first one, we are doing this like new fun format where episodes are just 20 to 25 minutes. Something shorter for when you know, you just want a little bit of an info dump. You just want something to accompany your shorter commute. Or for when we have topics that don't necessarily fill a full 50 minute to one hour episode. But I still want to talk about and I still want to, you know, discuss with you guys. So welcome. Today we are going to talk about one such topic which is personality tests. From Myers Briggs to the Big five, it feels like we are often asked to kind of define ourselves with a four letter code or a one word answer. We especially love them in our 20s. I remember sitting around like the dinner table when I was at college and everyone was doing their 16 Personalities Quiz. It's definitely a time where we feel very drawn to this, very drawn to the idea that someone could just tell us who we were. They're kind of almost like zodiac signs. Like they're a shortcut to understanding ourselves and to understanding others. You know, maybe you're an INFJ, maybe you're 90% extrovert, maybe you're the architect, maybe you're the commander. If you've ever done your personality test, you will know what I'm talking about with these. And for a moment, that feels really, really satisfying. Like someone just handed you the manual for your own brain. Someone told you what you're good at, told you what you're bad at, told you what to look out for. And that's like I said, that feels amazing. But there are a couple of big questions that come with that. Firstly, can you really, can you really siphon everything about a person down into a four letter word using what? 30 questions. And is that actually a good thing? Because the moment we start categorizing something that is as complex and fluid as human identity, we kind of run into a few problems, right? Firstly, are these tests even legitimate? Or are they just giving people the answers that they want to hear? Secondly, are they totally restrictive? Are they telling us the full picture, or are they more just meant to be used for a little bit of fun, like a buzzfeed quiz? What's the real use for these kinds of tests? To answer that, we first have to talk about what these tests are actually trying to do and why. Why it is that we love them so much. So most of them, if not all of them, are based on the idea of trait. Now, trait theory is basically a psychological approach to human behavior and human personality that attempts to identify and measure the fundamental characteristics of each individual. The core assumption here is that our personality, and in a way, our identity, is made up of a set of stable internal traits that influence our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors and that are kind of innate within us. And when we understand everyone's formula or everyone's recipe, we understand them as people. This is kind of different from some other famous ideas about personality. For example, psychodynamic theories like Freud's really suggest that personality is driven by unconscious conflicts. Humanistic theories kind of talk about self actualization and fulfillment and growth. Spiritual theories talk about the soul. But trait theorists really say, no, let's just measure the consistent parts of who you are. I can tell what those things will be using certain questions. And there we go. We'll call it a day. That's who you are. As humans. I've talked about this so often on the podcast, we do have a need for cognitive closure and for certainty. So basically, we desire, we crave firm answers and we. We don't love the unknown, especially when those unknowns are about ourselves. You know, the messiness of human personality is very overwhelming, especially earlier on in life. You know, am I introverted? Am I extroverted? Should I do this? Should I do that? Why do I feel like I'm this person one day, this person the next? Tests give us the illusion of clarity. They hand us a label and they say, this is who you are now. Act that way. And it's not just about clarity, but also about identity and belonging. If you're categorized into a personality type, I feel like you suddenly know you're not alone. I've definitely had this experience of being at like a party and it's come up and someone says, oh, you know, I'm an infj, or I'm an enf, whatever it is. And it's like, oh my God, maybe we should be friends. Or a friend tells you their personality type and you're like, oh, that's just proof. That's proof that we're meant to be together, we're meant to be bonded. And that can be incredibly comforting. So sometimes I think we cling onto these personality labels for a sense of identity and a sense of understanding of ourselves, but also of social identity as well. But of course, of course, if we become too attached to the label, we can start to develop this very surface, level, one dimensional view of us as people and we can start to ignore the ways that we grow and we change and we develop. Before we get into the different types of tests, we do need to understand two fundamental concepts in psychological testing. Not the most entertaining, flashy part of psychology, but one of the most important. These are reliability and validity. And they basically determine how good a test, how good a questionnaire, how good a measure is of what it's trying to tell us about. So reliability refers to the consistency of the test results. A reliable test will produce the same or very similar scores each time a person takes it, assuming that based on trait theory, the underlying traits haven't changed. And that's a crucial part of what these personality tests believe. So a great analogy for this is a bathroom scale. If you step on it five times in a row and it gives you different weights every single time, it's unreliable. If you take a personality test and it gives you a different result every single time, it's also unreliable. Validity, on the other hand, refers to the accuracy of a test. A valid test measures what it claims to measure. Going back to the scale analogy, if the scale is consistent and it says you weigh, I don't know, 90 kilos every single time, but your actual weight is 70 kilos, the scale is reliable. Reliable, it's telling you 90 kilos, but it's not valid. You actually weigh 70. Maybe it's not calibrated properly, maybe it's like not a very high tech scale, but it's consistently giving you the wrong number. A test basically can be reliable and not be valid. But for a test to be considered truly valid, it has to firstly be reliable. It has to give you the same result every time and that result has to actually reflect something that is happening. Now that we have those two ideas, let's look at some of these really famous models. When we talk about measuring personality, there's A huge divide actually between what is popular and what is scientifically backed. The model with the most scientific validation is the Big five. I think this is taught in every intro to psychology course ever all over the world. It's also known by its five factor, anagram Ocean, O, C, E, A, N. Its legitimacy really stems from its empirical basis. So it wasn't created by a specific theory. It wasn't like someone had a theory and was like let's fill in the gaps. It emerged naturally from decades and decades of research. Now the roots of the Big Five model can be traced back to the 1930s with the psychologist called Gordon Alport. But it really didn't Solidify until the 90s through the works of other researchers who came along, found Alport's initial findings and were like, wait, there's something really good here. Through various different studies, like across various different cultures, they found that personality descriptions consistently clustered around five broad dimensions or areas. Now the acronym ocean helps us remember them. The first is openness to experience. Are you cautious or are you curious? The second is conscientiousness. Are you organized? Are you type A or are you type B? And very easygoing, kind of go with the flow. Extroversion. I think this one's pretty self explanatory. Are you outgoing or are you solitary? Agreeableness. Are you compassionate? Do you like to, you know, kind of. Do you like to make friends with people but also not stir the pot? Or are you sometimes a little bit detached or a little bit inflammatory? And finally is neuroticism. Are you anxious or are you, I guess anxiety free or confident? This is how they describe it. Neuroticism is kind of an outdated term now, so bear that in mind. But it is an important part of this model and the reason this model is powerful is because it works on spectrums. So you're not an extrovert or, or an introvert. You are not either outgoing or solitary, organized or easygoing. You can kind of be a little bit more to the left, a little bit more to the right, maybe right in the middle. The nuance makes the Big five much more accurate than those rigid type based systems. And it's generally a lot more reliable and actually likely to apply to people. The other thing about the Big five is that it has been shown to predict important life outcomes. For example, conscientious people tend to perform better academically and professionally. People high in neuroticism, this is linked to greater anxiety and depression. Extraversion often predicts larger social networks. So it's also valid but here's the catch. It still doesn't tell us why we are the way we are. It describes it, it just can't explain it. And it may not capture culture differences fully, since a lot of the early research was Western, as is the case with, I would say, most, if not all, psychology tools. Here's what I mean by that. The Big Five was largely developed using English language personality descriptors, and it was tested on participants in the US and in Europe, where psychology really got its foothold. It means that the model reflects the cultural lens of individualism implicitly. There is a lot more focus within this test on independence, on personal achievement, on self expression, when sometimes the way that our personality traits are expressed can be a lot more subtle. Personality also isn't just biology, right? It's also shaped by culture. In more collectivist cultures, like many in East Asia, Africa or Latin America, certain traits may look different or they matter differently. For example, what psychologists call agreeableness, being cooperative, warm, compassionate, that might not be an individual trait in those contexts. It can actually be a cultural expectation, something that everyone is taught to express in order to maintain harmony. So when you measure it, you're not actually measuring personality, you're measuring a cultural norm. There are also traits that just don't fit neatly into the Big Five framework. Humor is one of them. Some researchers, also studying personality traits within China have argued for a sixth factor called interpersonal relatedness, which emphasizes not so much being extroverted or being agreeable, but respect, fulfilling one's role in the group and maintaining harmony. That is something that the Big Five just doesn't have the nuances to necessarily or explicitly capture because it wasn't part of the cultural context in which the model was created. So whilst the Big Five does replicate pretty well across certain cultures, it's not like it totally fails. It's probably not the whole story. It really does miss some of the nuances of how personality expresses itself in societies where values, traditions and social roles are just innately different from those in the West. And that's really important because personality doesn't occur in isolation. It's about how you show up in the communities and the context around you. Now, for the big one, let's talk about the Myers Briggs Type Indicator, the mbti. You've probably heard of it. It's used in so many different contexts in workplace training, on dating apps, it's advertised on social media. I feel like everyone's done this. It's the one that gives you the four letter code. So E, N, F, P, I S T J A I N F J and then it also often will give you like the celebrities that this personality type is like. And it will give you a name like a label, like the architect or the Commander or the peacemaker or the protagonist. I did mine right before recording this episode just to like remind myself of what mine was. And I am an enfj, the protagonist. So there you go. I had to. I wanted to see if it was it still reflected what I remembered it being before. And it did. So that's mine. What we're going to do is talk about where the Myers Briggs Type Indicator was developed because it is such an interesting story. So stay with us. We'll be right back after this short break.
- [19:07]
Podcast Host
Hello my lovely listeners. By now you know the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are. And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where Plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have. Learn more@planb1step.com users directed Tired of spills.
- [19:47]
WashablesOfSofa Advertiser
And stains on your sofa? WashablesOfAs.com has your back, featuring the Annabe Collection, the only designer sofa that's machine washable inside and out, where designer quality meets budget friendly prices. That's right, sofas start at just $699. Enjoy a no risk experience with pet friendly stain resistant and changeable slipcovers made with performance fabrics. Experience cloud like comfort with high resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime. Check out washablesofas.com and get up to 60% off your Anna Bay sofa backed by a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping or restocking fees. Every penny back Upgrade now@washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [20:48]
Malcolm Gladwell
Malcolm Gladwell here. I recently recorded the first episode of Smart Talks with IBM where I learned how AI agents are joining AI assistants as a major productivity tool. Let's start with AI agents. AI agents can reason plan and collaborate with other AI tools to autonomously perform tasks for a user. Brian Bitzel, an expert from IBM, gave me an example of how a college freshman might use an AI agent.
- [21:16]
Brian Bissell
As a new student, you may not know how do I deal with my health and wellness issue. How many credits am I going to get for this given class? You could talk to someone and find out some of that, but maybe it's a little bit sensitive and you don't.
- [21:27]
Malcolm Gladwell
Want to do that, Bissell told me. You could build an AI agent, a resource for new students that helps them navigate a new campus, register for classes, access the services they need, and even schedule appointments on their behalf, which in turn buys them more time to focus on their actual schoolwork.
- [21:45]
Brian Bissell
We can see patterns of how agents and assistants can help employees and customers and end users be more productive, automate workflows so they're not doing certain types of repetitive work over and over again and streamlining their lives and making data more accessible to them 24 hours a day.
- [22:06]
Malcolm Gladwell
To learn more about IBM's AI agents and how they can help your business, visit IBM.com agents looking for entertainment everyone.
- [22:17]
TiVo Advertiser
Will love TiVo plus has you covered with over 300 free channels. From movies for family night to kids shows, live news, sports and your favorite TV series all in one place. No signups, no credit cards required. Just turn on and enjoy. And with new channels and fresh content added all the time, there's always something to watch. TiVo plus free, binge worthy and always on. Check us out at tivo.com what happens.
- [22:48]
Gemma
When Delta Air Lines sends four creators.
- [22:50]
Podcast Host
Around the world to find out what.
- [22:52]
Gemma
Is the true power of travel? I think it helps me sort of like get grounded.
- [22:57]
TiVo Advertiser
I think I unlocked some like childhood.
- [22:59]
Gemma
Dream, turn my stress into excitement, take that gratitude from those experiences into your daily life. That's why I connected with Dr. Henry Ting, Delta's chief health and wellness officer, an instrumental voice behind this travel experiment. Traveling in general is going to give you that social and cultural and psychological and emotional expansion.
- [23:21]
IBM Representative
Yeah, you know, at Delta we like to say no one better connects the world. It's connecting not just people to destinations, it's connecting people to other people, other cultures and ultimately experiences that can't really be replicated.
- [23:35]
Gemma
Find out more about how travel can support well being on this special episode of the Psychology of your twenties presented by Delta. Fly and live better Listen wherever you get your podcasts. The Myers Briggs actually has a really interesting origin story. It is one of my favorite origin stories in psychology. It was developed actually not by a psychologist, but by a mother daughter duo, Catherine Cook Briggs and her daughter, Isabel Briggs Myers. Catherine was a writer and she was really fascinated by personality. And in the 1920s, she stumbled upon the work of Carl Jung. We talk about him all the time. He's a very famous Swiss psychoanalyst. He's like where inner child healing and inner teen healing comes from. And he basically proposed that people have different personality or psychological types. So introversion versus extroversion, or thinking versus feeling. And he introduced those to help people kind of make sense of themselves and make sense of the world. She was so inspired by his ideas that she decided to take them and adapt them into something that was practical and accessible. Now, During World War II, Isabel Myers Briggs saw an opportunity. She thought a test like this could be useful in helping women who were entering the workforce for the first time and help them match with jobs that suited their natural personality. Because obviously at the time all of the young men, slash, men were away at war and there was this huge hole left, like this huge labor demand, and women filled it and a lot of them had never worked before. So she and her mother began further developing and this idea and this questionnaire that would sort people into 16 personality types based on Jung's original theory. And they also simplified them yet again into four dichotomies. So where you sat on these four scales would help determine obviously where you sat in the 16 personality types. So we have extraversion versus introversion. That is basically in every single personality test you can think of. Sensing versus intuition. This was basically how you take on information. Senses often focus on what is concrete and practical and grounded in the five senses. So the facts, the details of the here and now. Intuitives, on the other hand, are more interested in patterns, abstract ideas, gut feelings. Then we have thinking versus feeling. This describes how you make decisions. Thinkers prefer objectivity, consistency and logic, whereas feelers prioritize values, empathy and harmony. And finally, judging versus perceiving. This is how you approach the external world. Judges like structure, schedule, closure. Perceivers prefer flexibility, keeping things spontaneous, kind of going with the flow. So once you figure out which category you have preferences for from each section, you combine them and you basically get a four letter personality type. For example, if you are more introverted, more likely to like concrete facts, more likely to make decisions aligned with values and had a preference for an organized life, you would be an isfj. It supposedly highlights your strengths and also your blind spots of your personality. And so it is very specific and personal, but it's also quite general. As well. Obviously there's only 16 and there are 7 billion people in the world. If we did the math, like, you're going to have a couple of brothers and sisters in your pack who have the same personality type as you. So by the 1940s, this was when it really became available commercially and really began to spread into business, education and even dating culture. But here is the catch. Whilst it has become really popular, the MBTI was never actually built on any kind of rigorous scientific testing. Catherine and Isabel, they weren't trained psychologists. And Jung's original theory, it was much more like metaphorical and philosophical rather than empirical. And that shaky foundation is kind of part of why the Myers Briggs has always been a little bit controversial in the scientific community. And that's where some of the criticism comes in. In a lot of cases, psychologists don't take the Myers Briggs seriously. Studies show it has low reliability. About 50% of people will get a different result when they retake it within weeks. That's a problem. It can't be used as an objective scientific measure. Plus it forces you into one category or another, even though, realistically, humans are a lot more nuanced than that. So it doesn't really typically measure what it's trying to measure. Because it doesn't. Yeah. Again, allow for flexibility. So why is it so popular? We might put this down to something called the Barnum or Fora effect. Barnum or Fora, that's when vague, flattering statements feel personally accurate. Think about your horoscope. Your horoscope for this week might say something like, you sometimes doubt yourself, but deep down you know you have a unique purpose. I'm not bashing horoscopes here, I really enjoy them. But that kind of applies to literally everyone. And the Myers Briggs type descriptions are written in a similar way. They're broad enough to fit. Almost anyone who sees themselves as being an extrovert sees themselves as being thoughtful, who has some kind of allegiance or, you know, reason to want to be that personality type. So of course, when you give them a piece of information that says, you are this, and this person is capable of this, and they're incredible at that, everyone's going to be like, yeah, and if I am that, that means I'm great and I'm capable. Here's one such statement from my results actually, enfj, this was my result. This is what it said. Your journey of personal growth is fueled by a desire for self improvement and a genuine commitment to becoming the best version of yourself. I don't know about you but doesn't that apply to literally everyone who has ever had a goal or wants to better themselves? That's not necessarily a bad thing, you know, it resonates with people, not because it's scientifically sound, but because it helps people articulate something in themselves that's not terrible, but it's just important to see it more as that storytelling tool that can be just as valuable, but it's not necessarily scientific, you know. But though, again, if it resonates with you and it provides you with some guidance or comfort, like, I don't know, see the problem, I really think it's just a lot of fun. The issue is when we take it too seriously, when we let those boxes contain us. If you believe I'm an introvert, therefore I can't lead, or I'm more neurotic, therefore I will always be anxious, you start limiting yourself and these labels can become self fulfilling prophecies. But here's the flip side. Used wisely, these tests give you language to describe things that you felt about yourself but never articulated. They also could help you identify what you like about yourself, what you think of as an asset within you. So as we wrap up, here's my main takeaway. Personality tests are like maps. A map is super useful. It helps you orient yourself. It helps you see where you might be or paths forward. But if you have your head down and you're constantly looking at the map, you are actually not going to really enjoy the scenery and enjoy your way through life and enjoy how you can test yourself and how you may find little back roads that the map doesn't tell you about. At the end of the day, every single person on this earth is more nuanced than four letters. You are a constantly evolving human being. You change depending on your environment, your experiences, your growth. That's what makes you you, interesting and human. So take the tests. I think they're super, super fun. Use them to reflect, use them to connect with other people. But don't let them limit you. That's all we have time for today. Just like my last bonus episode do. Let me know if you have other theories or topics or concepts you want me to dive into next. As always, thank you to our research assistant Libby Colbert for all the effort and work she puts in behind the scenes. We appreciate her so much, much. And thank you for listening to the podcast. If you made it this far, drop your Myers Briggs down below. I want to know what everyone is. I think it would be super interesting to see if there's like a certain pattern or a certain one that rises to the surface. Until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself and we will be back with a full length episode on Friday. Talk to you very soon.
- [33:18]
Podcast Host
Hello my lovely listeners. By now you know the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are. And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where Plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have. Learn more@planb1step.com users directed.
- [33:58]
WashablesOfSofa Advertiser
Life's Messy. We're talking spills, stains, pets and kids. But with Anabe, you never have to stress about Messes again@washablesofas.com Discover Annabe Sofas the only fully machine washable sofas inside and out starting at just $699. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, that means fewer stains and more peace of mind. Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly. Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus they're earth friendly and built to last. That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washablesofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.
- [34:57]
LifeLock Advertiser
Chances are you've been to the doctor recently and you probably handed over your insurance, your ID and even your Social Security number. Your doctor is just one of many places that has your personal info and if any of them accidentally expose your details, you could be at risk for identity theft. LifeLock monitors millions of data points a second. If you become a victim, they'll fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code iheart or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off terms apply.
- [35:30]
TiVo Advertiser
Tired of flipping through apps to find something good? Meet TiVo plus your one stop free streaming network. No credit card required. With over 300 free channels, you get binge worthy movies from action and comedy to Indian award winners, plus top TV shows live news, sports, highlights, and family programming all in one place. Watch live or on demand right from your home screen. Free. No signups, no fees, just press play. That's TiVo plus free, binge worthy and always on. Check us out@tivo.com in our 20s, we.
- [36:01]
Gemma
Are basically constantly evolving emotionally, hormonally, and yes, even our skin. I've been using Primally Pure Soothing Mist and Clarifying Serum and it has changed how I approach skincare. It's not about control or perfection, it's about support. Primally Pure is female founded, clean and rooted in simplicity. Go to www.p r I m a l l y p u r e dot com. Use my code GEMMA15 and get 15 off. Your skin deserves care that matches your growth worth. This is an I Heart podcast.