367. Why money deeply shapes our relationships ft. Jack Howard

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Psychology of your 20s

Episode 367 – Why money deeply shapes our relationships ft. Jack Howard

Host: Gemma Sbeg
Guest: Jack Howard (Head of Money Wellness, Ally Bank)
Release date: December 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode explores how money fundamentally shapes our relationships, especially in our twenties—a decade often marked by significant transitions in love, career, and personal growth. Host Gemma Sbeg is joined by Jack Howard, a financial and money psychology expert, to discuss topics ranging from financial compatibility and emotional spending to prenups, wedding budgets, joint bank accounts, and how our "money story" deeply influences how we show up in relationships. The conversation is honest, practical, and aims to reduce shame and increase transparency about money in love.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jack Howard’s Background and Philosophy (06:16–09:04)

• Jack introduces herself as Head of Money Wellness at Ally Bank, with a 15-year career across financial literacy, personal investing, and, most recently, money psychology.
• She shares her journey falling in love with the idea of understanding the emotional and behavioral roots of financial decisions.

“When you're better aligned to your values, your emotions and really understand the behaviors that you have behind some of your money decisions, it just helps you to stick to the plan.”
— Jack Howard (07:38)

• Money Roots: Jack leads “Money Roots,” a free wellness program offering workshops on building a better relationship with money by understanding behaviors and emotions—not just financial skills.

2. The Money Story – Root Causes & Emotional Spending (09:21–12:02)

• Jack is candid about her own past money mistakes, revealing she carried significant debt due to emotional spending rooted in her upbringing and societal beliefs.
• She highlights the importance of identifying the real source of financial habits, notably that money (or spending) can’t solve emotional issues.

“There is no amount of money that can solve your issues. When you need therapy... there's no purse, there's no vacation. You have to address that.”
— Jack Howard (11:20)

3. Financial Compatibility in Relationships (12:02–15:08)

• Most couples are not naturally financially compatible; often, opposites (spender vs. saver) attract, which can create friction.
• Knowing your own and your partner’s “money personality” and story fosters empathy, reducing shame and conflict over differences.
• Solution: Move from blame (“you’re cheap,” “you’re spending too much”) to understanding, then create a shared value system around money.

“When you understand your partner’s money story, you understand your partner’s values. It creates empathy for the differences.”
— Jack Howard (13:50)

4. Values-Based Spending and Structures in Relationships (15:18–17:53)

• Jack champions values-based spending: anchor financial decisions to your core values for a higher “return on joy.”
• Examples:
  • Jack: Values beautiful things, generational wealth, spirituality—spending decisions are paused unless they match these.
  • Her partner: Frugal; they’ve instituted a “splurge account” for guilt-free enjoyment.
• Structures like individual budgets for discretionary funds create space for each partner’s priorities, even when values or habits differ.

5. Managing Income Inequality in Relationships (18:01–21:09)

• Transparency is key; some couples split expenses by income or go 50/50, but the logic should match shared values and realistic lifestyle goals.
• Power dynamics, masculinity, and identity can complicate these discussions, but Jack reiterates these are emotional, not financial, issues.
• Regular “money date nights” (monthly or weekly) are recommended to set aside time to discuss budgets, shared values, accounts, and future planning.

6. Money as a Pillar of Wellbeing (21:33–22:26)

• Money should be seen as a critical component of overall wellbeing, like health or relationships; neglecting it disturbs all other life domains.
• Open, early conversations about money must be normalized in romantic partnerships—just like talks about family or future aspirations.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Emotional Spending:

  "For me, it was emotional spending from childhood. Beliefs that I had learned from society and my parents… There is no amount of money that can solve your issues. When you need therapy, right."
  – Jack Howard (10:40–11:20)

• On Compatibility and Empathy:

  "You can be opposites. But when you understand your partner’s money story... it creates empathy for the differences."
  – Jack Howard (13:47)

• On Money Date Nights:

  "I'm a big fan of scheduled money date nights where we can meet once per week, at minimum once per month, to talk about these things..."
  – Jack Howard (18:21)

• On Money and Wellbeing:

  "When money is off, it impacts all of that. When you are not satisfied with your money… it’s impacting their romantic partnerships."
  – Jack Howard (21:40)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

| Topic | Timestamps | |--------------------------------------|----------------| | Introduction and episode setup | 04:10–05:15 | | Jack Howard: background & philosophy | 06:16–09:04 | | The concept of your “money story” | 09:21–12:02 | | Financial compatibility & empathy | 12:32–15:08 | | Values-based spending examples | 15:44–17:53 | | Income inequality in relationships | 18:01–21:09 | | Money as wellbeing pillar | 21:33–22:26 | | Prenups explained | 27:04–29:59 | | Weddings: values-based budgeting | 32:31–37:14 | | Joint vs. separate bank accounts | 37:14–39:43 | | Jack’s non-financial advice | 40:09–41:47 |

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Specific Deep-Dive Topics

Prenups: What & Why? (27:04–31:18)

• Definition: A prenup is a legal document outlining what happens to assets if the marriage ends.
• Common Misconception: It’s only for the wealthy. False: Your assets will most likely grow, and settling these issues while you’re amicable is easier and less painful.
• Emotional Viewpoint: “Insurance for your love.”

  “The person you are at the beginning of your marriage... is a very, very different person than who you are at the place of divorce.”
  – Jack Howard (28:18)

• Transparency Benefit: Initiating a prenup process forces couples to fully lay out and understand each other's finances, reducing future misunderstandings.

Weddings and Financial Values (32:31–37:14)

• No 'right' number: The amount should align with shared values, not social pressure or FOMO.
• Big, lavish weddings often lead to regret if spending doesn’t reflect couple’s values.
• “You’re doing it for love... not just following the crowd.” – Jack Howard (35:04)

Joint Bank Accounts: Should You Combine? (37:14–39:43)

• Research indicates relationships with joint accounts have better transparency and alignment.
• Consideration: People are marrying later with more assets, making full merging complicated.
• Personal approach: Each partner keeps separate accounts, with a shared account for joint expenses, but the "key is transparency," and regular discussions to prevent financial infidelity.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On the real root of money arguments:

  "Everything you just said has nothing to do with money… gender roles and enjoyment and how do we want to have experiences together.”
  – Jack Howard (20:18)

• On perfectionism and weddings:

  "We can get so caught up in perfect moments... But we all know life is not perfect. Something’s gonna go wrong that day, big or small."
  – Jack Howard (36:22–37:14)

• On living life in your twenties:

  "Stop checking boxes and enjoy life. Enjoy those experiences because life is short."
  – Jack Howard (41:46)

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Closing Advice & Resources

• Jack’s final advice (40:09–41:47):

  • "Life is short. Enjoy the people that you love. Stop checking boxes and savor experiences… It becomes so much more joyful."
  • Her own cancer experience taught her to stop fixating on life checklists and embrace experiences and relationships.

• Money Roots Program:

  • Free workshops offered by Jack and Ally Bank, including “Love and Money”—recommended for couples.
  • allymoneyroots.com (URL for listeners to access)

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Tone and Language

Supportive, empathetic, practical, and non-judgmental, focused on normalizing money discussions, reducing shame, and empowering young adults to take control over financial and emotional aspects of their relationships.

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Actionable Takeaways

• Explore your own money story: Know your upbringing and emotional triggers.
• Have regular, open conversations about money with your partner: Schedule “money date nights.”
• Use values-based spending: Align financial decisions with what truly matters to you.
• Prenups, joint accounts, and wedding budgets: Make these decisions based on transparency, values, and mutual understanding, not external pressure.
• Remember: Money can’t fix emotional wounds—focus on building self-awareness and authentic relationships.

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The conversation’s essence:

Money isn’t “just money”—it’s about our deepest values, stories, and how we design our lives and relationships. With reflection and honest dialogue, even the most fraught money issues can become opportunities for growth, trust, and joy.

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Transcript

[Jack Howard]

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[Gemma Spake]

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[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

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[Gemma Spake]

Use code GEMMA15 for 15% off your order at www. Primallypure.com that's P-R-I-M A L L Y P U R E.com. Hello everybody, I'm Gemma Spake and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s. The podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast wherever you are in the world.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

New listeners, old listeners, it is so.

[Gemma Spake]

Great to have you here back. Welcome back for another amazing guest episode. If I had to pick two categories that I think I get the most questions about when it comes to our 20s, it would no doubt be love and money. And although we might view those as separate topics, separate ideas, they are actually deeply linked. How we think about money. It affects how we date, who we date, how our love stories turn out, and how we think about love will impact what money problems, money issues, money value differences we may overlook. So today let's talk about the intersection of money, relationships and psychology. Everything from prenups to how much you should spend on a wedding, if and when you should get joint bank accounts, and why you you really need to understand your money story to really show.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Up in your relationship.

[Gemma Spake]

Of course, I am not a financial expert, but I do have someone joining me today who is and who is not only a financial expert, but an expert in love and money. Let's get into it without further ado. Jack Howard, welcome to the podcast.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Welcome to the psychology of your 20s.

[Jack Howard]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

We were just talking about this. We have the most disparate Time zones. You're in Detroit, I'm in Sydney and we've managed to make it work. So thank you. Thank you.

[Jack Howard]

The power of technology is working for us in this moment. It's what, 6 o', clock, 6pm here in Detroit. And I know it's morning for you, so you're just getting your day started. I'm about to wrap it up.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

I know it looks pretty good. In the future, I will say the 7th of November, which is when we're recording this, which is tomorrow for you. It's a good day. Before I go any further, because I'm going to just jump into my questions and I need the listeners to know a little bit more about you and who you are and your amazing work.

[Jack Howard]

Yeah. So I'm Jack Howard. I serve as head of Money Wellness for Ally Bank. And I bet you're thinking, like, what is that? What title is that? Never heard of it before. And it's a really amazing role that I've been in for about two years. I've had the pleasure of working for Ally for 15 years in various roles. Everything from our corporate giving, where I focused on financial education for underserved communities and corporate giving and employee volunteerism. I did that for a big chunk of my time. And then I moved to our invest business where I did a stretch role as chief of staff for the president there and decided to stay and help launch our personal advice business where you work with a personal wealth advisor to help you to think through retirement. And it was during that piece of my career where I was introduced to money psychology. When you're better aligned to your values, your emotions and really understand the behaviors that you have behind some of your money decisions, it just helps you to stick to the plan. And I fell in love with it so much because one of the questions we would ask is, what is your first memory of money? And for me, professionally and personally, it was such an amazing question because it answered so much. From the work that I had done in financial literacy to even personally, the ups and downs that I've had with money of really understanding the why behind your money decisions, the skills that you try to implement. A lot of people just have a hard time implementing the skills even though you know the right thing to do. So I was in that role for a bit and again I fell in love with the money psychology so much that I went to our leaders and said, you know, I think this is really the future of how people will talk about money. I think it's the future of how banks will interact with customers. So less of the skills. Yes. You have to know how to save, how to invest. I can teach you how to do a budget, all those things. But really understanding that those emotions and the behaviors that will help you to implement the skills. Having a better relationship with money, I think is the future of how we will talk about it. And they said, said, okay, prove it. And I was given the opportunity to start this role. And most recently we created a free financial wellness program called Money Roots where we teach again, having a better relationship with money with four different workshops. And I'm sure we'll get into that more, but that's kind of been my journey and that's my current role.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Oh my God. I love how you've just done so many different things. Like.

[Jack Howard]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

And how it's all just linked back to this, what it sounds like, this like desire to understand people better through how like money is a tool for them.

[Gemma Spake]

Right.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

And it's like real like psychological element of it.

[Jack Howard]

And you know, I think it stemmed From in my 20s, I was horrible at money. And I graduated from College with about $30,000 in student loan debt and credit card debt. And from graduating really became passionate about just having a better understanding of the skill based side of money, specifically with credit cards. But as time continued, I, I was in this hamster wheel of making money, creating credit card debt and then paying it off. So I did that through my 30s. And it really wasn't until this money psychology piece of, of my, my financial journey and professional journey where I really got to the root of, why do I do this? Why do I do the things that I do with money? And now I can put up guardrails to, you know, help me to be more successful. So it's, it's definitely been a journey and one that I'm so excited to share with everybody else.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

I have a question for you about that piece you just mentioned. You graduated college, you had, you had this debt at the time.

[Gemma Spake]

What do you think your biggest money mistake was?

[Jack Howard]

I think my biggest. So mine is deeply rooted in my money story. My biggest mistake then is just not realizing specifically for the credit card debt why I was creating credit card debt. And for me it was grounded in a lot of emotional spending, which we're seeing in young people still. We have this fear of missing out in social media. You want to keep up with other people. But for me, it was emotional spending from childhood. Beliefs that I had learned from society and my parents, all of those things created this version of me where I would spend and Create debt. So I think the biggest lesson I've learned that I wish I would have known then, is that there is no amount of money that can solve your issues. When you need therapy, right. When you need emotional support for things, there's no. There's no purse, there's no vacation. When you have some root issues that require additional support, you have to address that. And oftentimes, like with money or food, we will use these things to serve as a distraction. So I would tell myself, you know, let's get rid of the distractions, really address some of our root issues so that we can now show up better with our relationship with money.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Speaking of relationships, what we really. What I really want to talk to you about today is the intersection between money and relationships in our twenties. Around marriage. Yes. But also just around financial compatibility and how money actually impacts love in many, many ways. Let's start with this question. How important is financial compatibility with in a relationship?

[Jack Howard]

Okay, so I love this question. One of the classes that we teach in money roots, it's. It's really. It's called Love and Money, where we go deep into the very thing you just said we go deep into for you and your romantic partner. What are the beliefs that you have and your partner has? What are the things that you learned about money from your family and from society? And then how does this show up in your relationship? So most people don't have compatibility. You will have. It's, you know, for whatever reason, opposites attract. You may have the spender and the saver, a nurturer or somebody who's an avoider. We all have these money personalities. So one, it's important to know kind of what your personality is. But I want everyone to avoid shame around whatever your money personality is. So I'll be honest and say for me and my partner, who I've been with since I graduated from college, we. He is more of a. More of a saver. I'm more of a spender. And I think throughout my 20s, I had so much shame around being a spender, and I wanted to be frugal like him. But that's not who I am. I'm a spender. I'm a spender. So it wasn't until I got to a place of understanding through your money story, through really getting very aligned with your money values. That's where having compatibility can come into play. Because you can be opposites. But when you understand your partner's money story, you understand your partner's values. It creates empathy for the differences. So it's less about. You're frugal and cheap and I'm a spender. And you know, you know, you, you're overspending on everything. The bumping of heads to more of, oh, I understand why she is that way. I understand why he is that way. And now we're able to come together as a couple and create compatibility. Now we can come together without shame, with empathy to say, knowing that you're this person, I'm this person. How do we move forward together to create our own value system around money? And that's actually something we teach in our money roots class. The love and money we actually take you through understanding what that personality is, what your values are, and then how do we move forward to create something together?

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

When you were talking about your partner, I was like, that's a familiar story. Me and my partner are the same. Yeah, it's always been that way for me, like money was again, it's just.

[Gemma Spake]

Such an emotional thing. And so of course it's going to.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Be like reflected and show up in your relationship. And of course there's going to be times when like, what is it like? Money is the thing that couples argue about the most. What I'm hearing you say is like, you don't necessarily have to change all that much. You just have to understand and find the middle ground of like, what are we responsible for in this relationship? Is that what you're kind of saying?

[Gemma Spake]

Yeah.

[Jack Howard]

So, no, I think, yeah, definitely finding the middle ground and guardrails. So for me, knowing that I am a spender, I have to deeply attach my spending to my values. So I'm, I'm a huge proponent of values based spending. And what that means is I know my top values are really beautiful things. Authenticity, generational wealth, and really my spirituality. So when I anchor, and that's a part of money, wellness and money well being, when you're able to anchor your spending, saving and giving to your values, you get a higher return on what I like to say or higher return on joy. So for me, I know that if a spending, if I'm spending and it doesn't attach to those values.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Pause.

[Jack Howard]

Let's pause and give it 48 hours. You know, is that black pair of pants beautiful enough? Does it, does it meet the requirement of my value of really beautiful things? Does it meet my requirement for generational wealth? And that has stopped me in my tracks, be honest. That has stopped me in my tracks with buying things because I'll give myself that pause of does this meet my values? And once you start spending from a place of this has to meet my values. It increases your well being with money. And then on the other side for my partner who is more frugal now, we're looking at it like money is a tool for enjoyment. So we got to have a splurge account. We have a splurge account. So it forces him to now say, yes, we're going to save, but we're also going to enjoy the money. We've set money aside to where if I want to, you know, spend a hundred dollars on cookies because that's my latest obsession and he wants to spend a hundred dollars on Legos because that's his latest exception, that's okay because we both have that wiggle room within our budget to do so. So again, it's creating those structures within your relationship to make that happen. And it's also knowing how to have the conversation. I think that's a big piece that people are, are missing, which I feel.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Like we can get into in a second. I want to ask another question on this though before we do, which is.

[Gemma Spake]

How do you deal with inequality in.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Earnings when you're in a long term relationship or you're in just a relationship in your 20s and beyond? What happens when one partner makes significantly.

[Gemma Spake]

More money or significantly less money?

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

How do we kind of handle that conversation?

[Jack Howard]

Yeah, I think we have to have transparency. I've talked to people where they'll do a split based off of percentages and that's how much you put in. And some people wanted to make it 50, 50 because it makes them feel like they're showing up and it may make you feel powerful again. We got to understand the story behind that and what is preference for you as an individual. So having the transparency one of I love to say money date nights. So I'm a big fan of less scheduled money date nights where we can meet once per week, at minimum once per month to talk about these things and create these guidelines and go into it having topics of are we going to have joint accounts or split accounts? Are we going to, how are we going to pay the bills? How are we going to be compatible with our values and our beliefs? So I think the first step is to just have these conversations and setting time aside to do so.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Yeah. And also just being incredibly realistic about like can if this person has a certain lifestyle, could you keep up? Like can you keep up with what they want to do and what they want to spend with. With still doing the 5050 thing or with you wanting to pay your fair Share. Like, I do feel like I have a couple friends who are in relationships like this. Specifically I'm thinking about one friend who she makes a lot more than her partner and he was always like adamant, like, no, we're going to split everything 50, 50. And it was like, well then we can't do the things that I actually want to do in a relationship. So it was like this real. It actually got very like complex for them. It was like ideas of masculinity and like power and equality, but then also like enjoyment and experiences and like what matters more to their relationship. Like that they can continue to play the role that they think they should play in a relationship or they can have fun with each other with the cards. They' so like it does get very, very complex and I just want to.

[Jack Howard]

Call out everything you just said has nothing to do with money.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Exactly.

[Jack Howard]

It has nothing to do with money. You talked about, no, you talked about gender roles and enjoyment and how do we want to have experiences together has nothing to do with money. That's a completely separate conversation. So the problem is we don't have those conversations and then it turns into a blow up about money. So it's so important when we think of the money date night and how do we have productive conversations with your partner to say my values are experiences and I do want to travel the world. And so as a, a partnership we should allocate our money in this way to do these things. But again it's realizing that those conversations need to take place and oftentimes people just avoid it and you're ending up in an argument.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Oh yeah. Again I'm going to pull back that statistic that we said at the start. It's like the biggest source of conflict in relationships is money. So it's like when you're in your 20s and you're in a relationship, it's like this is everybody focuses on like oh, let's talk about our attachment styles and let's talk about our future. Like do we want kids? Like no, you need to have serious conversations about money early on. Like it's actually deeply important.

[Jack Howard]

You do, you know the money, the what I love about the work we're doing here at Ally and just this whole movement that you're going to see within, I hope, I hope to see more within money psychology and money wellness is looking at money as a part of your well being. So when you think of your social well being, so your friendships, when you think of your community, where do you live and how do you support it? Your career. You think of your fitness and your health. Those are all areas of well being. And when money is off, it impacts all of that. When you are not satisfied with your money, seeing through our own data that people are up at night, they can't sleep at night, it's impacting their romantic partnerships. So it's so important that even starting in your 20s, you know not to let money be this static thing, but it is a part of your well being and to give it its full attention in your relationship is so important.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Okay, we're going to take a short break here, but when we return we're going to talk about prenups. I'm going to talk about.

[Jack Howard]

Okay, let's do it.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

We're going to talk about weddings. Stay with us.

[Gemma Spake]

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[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Am so fascinated by is prenups. Why people get them, what they really mean. I genuinely, I'm going to be completely transparent. I have no idea what a prenup is. Can you kind of give us a little bit of an explanation?

[Jack Howard]

Yeah. So essentially it's a legal document that outlines your finances and your assets. What happens to it should the marriage end so we're no longer want to be together? What do we do with the house, what do we do with that bank account? All of those things helps you to think about this before you get to a place of divorce. So I look at it as almost insurance for your love. I really want people to shift their perspective about prenups. And we're finding that in some of our data that is becoming less of a taboo topic and more of a way for couples to be transparent.

[Gemma Spake]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

So I'm going to ask some really naive questions. Do you only need a prenup if you have existing wealth?

[Jack Howard]

No. And here's why. Here's why. So for everybody out there in your 20s, my question is, do you think you will have the same amount of wealth in your 40s and 50s that you have in your 20s? I'm hoping for most people the answer is going to be no. So the person that you are in your 20s, the amount of assets that you have in your 20s compared to when you're older, it changes. So I think when you set those guidelines in the beginning, when you get to a place of it didn't work out, as you mentioned earlier, money is one of the highest sources of conflicts in marriages. So if you get to a place to where this didn't work out and we want to go our separate ways, you're doing it in the beginning, and I have experienced this and seen it with friends. The person you are at the beginning of your marriage when you're in love and not emotional is a very, very different person than who you when you are at the place of divorce. It's two different people. So if you're able to do this at a place when you're still kind to each other, where you still have best intentions for each other, and you're really, I want to say rational, do it then to where you don't have to, you know, you're battling with someone later when a lot of emotions are involved.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

So this is my second naive question because I totally agree with you. I feel like I've. My parents have always said, and they're still together, but, like, from seeing friends of theirs get divorced. Like, the person you marry is not the person you divorce. They're two different people. Does asking for a prenup put pressure on the relationship? You know, there is definitely, like, a skeptical part in my mind and tell and please correct it if it's wrong that says, isn't that just saying, like, a part of me doesn't think we're gonna last?

[Gemma Spake]

No.

[Jack Howard]

I think we need to shift that. That mindset and really look at it from. We're at a place now where people are more transparent about their finances. People have, especially in your 20s and 30s, you're coming into your relationship with more assets, so you may have children, all those things. So really understanding that this is, again, insurance should things not work out. And it's a way for us to be transparent. And it's also, if it helps, I love that it creates a level set of where are we with our finances? Because in order to have a prenup, you have to understand your assets and liabilities. You have to get all these things on paper for both you and your partner. So you're. It allows you to do that level set. So I don't think I want us to shift that and look at it as less about we're doomed and all of that, and be realistic with the stats of what divorce and all those things are and saying that while we are kind to each other and have sound decision making and not high emotions, let's just do this now to ensure that it's not a problem later.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Yeah. Okay.

[Jack Howard]

And I bet that you won't need it. Let's say that it's just insurance.

[Gemma Spake]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

I like this idea. Insurance for your love. Like, you don't buy house insurance thinking that you're gonna set your house on fire. You know what I mean?

[Jack Howard]

But you still have it just in case things happen. So. And. And I'm. I'm hopeful that all marriages last, but in the event that they don't, just having that as a backup so that you're not fighting over things later creates. And I, you know, I also think it creates a better relationship post the div. Worse, because you didn't have to fight for all of those things. So definitely, let's shift how we think about it and allow it to be a place to create transparency. A great topic for money date night.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Yeah. Very good topic. It's many things. So I have a bunch of Friends who are getting married. And like, I feel like you get to this point in your 20s where it's like a wedding every weekend. Some of them are getting a lot. Some of them are spending a lot of money on the wedding. And I saw an article that said this has been no judgment. I really, I don't know enough. But this article that said the more you spend on your wedding, the more likely you are to get divorced. This is an entry point for me to ask you how much do you think couples should spend on their wedding? And do you see, which I know you might not have an answer for, but do you see maybe a correlation between spending more and that putting strain on the relationship?

[Jack Howard]

Let me say this. I think that from my personal. I'll just use my personal experience and what I think people should do in getting. Having this. Get back to your values as a couple. As a young couple, I think it's so important to get very aligned on what your values are individually and what your values will be as a couple. And that includes what. What do we want this wedding to be? So I'm not going to shame. Your values may be having a wedding because you have a big family and it's celebratory. It may be a part of your culture, but for someone else, it may be that they're having a smaller wedding. A more intimate ceremony is who they are really honing in on. What you want as a couple, I think is so important and not getting pulled into what you mentioned. Like, you know, I think a lot of this is like, you know, fear of missing out. You want to keep up with what your friend, all of your friends are having big weddings, so you should have a big wedding. We tend to follow what other people do mindlessly without really understanding who we are and what we want individually. So with that in mind, I'm not going to say a dollar amount, but I do want to say that I think it has to deeply align to what your values are as a couple. And when you spend from that point of view, it will be affordable because you will not do things that are not affordable for either of you. Who you'll do things that are. That are affordable for either. For both of you, shall I say?

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Yeah, and I like this idea of, like, like, see, when I get married, I'm keen for a big wedding. And then I have a huge family. I have a huge, like, Italian, Irish family. Like, it's. There's no avoiding it. And, you know, my partner also has a huge family who we love. But yeah, it's just so interesting when you see these lavish weddings and you think that you need personalized gifts for everybody and the day, and you think that you need everybody. Like, the wedding becomes more about other people than about you. That's what a lot of my friends who have spent a lot of money on their wedding said that they regretted. And again, I like that you're bringing it back to values. Right. It's like, this is about you two showing your love for each other. Yes. Like, your family and friends are involved, but, like, it's not their wedding. Like, I think the more you can spend on the enjoyment for yourself and the things that you like. This is what I'm seeing for my friends who are planning weddings who are having a good time. Time versus those who are having, like, a bad time.

[Jack Howard]

Yeah.

[Gemma Spake]

And you're.

[Jack Howard]

You're doing it for love. We gotta get back to that. You're doing it because you're marrying your partner who you love, and you want to have an amazing experience with the people who support that love. And that could be as simple or elaborate as you want it to be. But again, like, you mentioned, understanding specifically for you, what do you and your partner want? And not just following the crowd out, because that becomes expensive.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Oh, my God. Yeah, I. Yes, I've seen it. It becomes so expensive. And I was like, I had a friend, and she won't mind me talking about this, where she was like, we spent all this money on, like, extra desserts for the guests, and then they didn't eat them. They didn't eat them? Yeah, they didn't eat. They didn't eat them. And she was like, oh. Like, this was such a big detail that I really.

[Gemma Spake]

I was so stressed about coordinating how.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

These were going to get there. And, like. And she was like. And I. I was like, how much. Tell me truthfully, how much did you spend on, like. I think she was like, the.

[Gemma Spake]

The cocktails and the dessert, and she.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Was like, over $3,000. And I was like, that's. And she's like, I just wish we just. Like, that's. That could have been, like, part of our honeymoon fund. You know what I mean? So. Yeah, it's. I like that you brought. You bring it back to values.

[Gemma Spake]

Yeah.

[Jack Howard]

I think also as brides or in life. In life, we can get so caught. Caught up in perfect moments.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Yeah.

[Jack Howard]

You have this. You know, you envision what this day will be, and it should be perfect. But we all know life is not perfect. Things. Something's gonna go wrong that day, big or small. You know, and just creating space for that day, going into it, to know that, why am I here? Why am I here? And what are my values for doing this? And it helps you to not really sweat the small stuff of the day, because those things will come up, you know, you spent more on the. And your guests won't know. That's the other thing. Your guests will have no idea that you didn't buy more desserts, you know, or you didn't have that extra decoration. They'll never know again. They're there to support. To support your love. So let that be the focus.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Yeah, I love that. One final money dilemma that we see in relationships is shared bank accounts.

[Gemma Spake]

What do you think about people who.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Are in early stages of their relationship? Maybe they've just moved in together, getting a shared bank account. Is it safer at the beginning to.

[Gemma Spake]

Just continue to spend separately?

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Or is it wise to kind of, you know, get that extra interest or combine finances for convenience? What have you seen that kind of works for. For couples?

[Jack Howard]

Yeah. So I'm going to give you a little bit of data and then a little bit of just what I'm seeing from.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

From.

[Jack Howard]

The world we live in. So I've had the pleasure. I did a graduate certification in financial health and wellness from Texas Tech, the financial planning school. And there I learned through one of our literature reviews that technically, relationships where you share bank accounts are better because of the transparency. So you just have more transparency within the relationship. You're more aligned. However, I think we also have to take into account that people are getting married later, they have more assets, so it's. It may be difficult to come in and share everything. So again, I think this is a conversation to where do we have. Depending on your assets and the level of comfort that you have, I think you want to have. I think the key here is transparency. That's what I think the key is. So is it that we have. Have certain views of. Of each other's accounts when we have a money date night, do we talk about our accounts if they're separate? But I do want to take into account that some people just come into relationships with more assets. So separating things may be difficult. So keeping that in mind, the key, again, is the transparency to where we're not hiding money, where we get into financial infidelity, things like that. So we want to have that transparency to. To ensure that. That we know what the assets are. We know we've agreed upon if we're going to share or not. I personally am a fan of. I have My own account, my partner has his own account. And then we have one account where we share our expenses, Our shared expenses. That works for me. But again, have that conversation so that you can go into it knowing what each person feels comfortable with. But according to the academic data, when you share it, it helps your relationship.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

I love how I love this, this conversation. And I' so grateful for all the advice that you're giving us on like, the more juicy, controversial parts of money and relationships. I have one final question for you. It's the question we, we ask all of our guests, which is what is one piece of advice you have for people in their 20s that has nothing to do with what we talked about today though. Nothing to do with money, nothing to do with relationships even.

[Jack Howard]

Oh my goodness, what would I tell 20 year old Jacqueline? Life is short. And enjoy the people that you love. Life is short. And enjoy the people that you love. Because, you know, I'm 44, I'll be 45 in March. And over the years, I'm also a breast cancer survivor, so there's layers to that too.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Of.

[Jack Howard]

You get to a place of. For me in my 20s, a lot of my 20s was about checking boxes. So it was graduate from college, check, get married, check, have kids, check.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

You.

[Jack Howard]

Know, have my retirement accounts, check. And then when I was diagnosed with breast cancer at 30, and with that, it really reset who I was as a person to really understand that I'm here, to have experiences with the people that I love. And when you, when you live life from that standpoint, point, a lot of these small things, like we're talking about decorations at a wedding or did I get enough desserts. When you look at life through that lens, it becomes so much more joyful. And that's one of the reasons why I love my work at Ally, because I'm in a position to help people, to use money as a tool to have joy, to have a return on joy as a tool to have experiences and use it to, you know, love and enjoy the people around them. And when you look at life through that lens, it becomes so much sweeter. So stop checking boxes and enjoy life. Enjoy those experiences because life is short.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

That's phenomenal advice and advice I probably need to take myself. So definitely, definitely a good piece there. I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Jack. Honestly, you are so wise and just so lovely to talk to. I feel like our conversation was just like effortless and I so appreciate your time. So thank you so much again.

[Jack Howard]

Thank you. And check us out ally money roots.com the sessions are all free.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Yeah, you can do Money in Love. I know I was just about to say that. I was like I feel like I need to do Money in Love. I'm like gonna make Tom do it with me. Gonna make him sit down. It would be. I think it would be like super helpful for us. So I appreciate it. I'll make sure that I leave links in the description below for where you can find Jack and all her work and where you can do Money in Love. But if you enjoyed this episode as well, make sure subscribe, make sure you give us a five star review and check us out on Instagram at thatpsychology podcast if you want to, you know, suggest some episodes, have some feedback, have.

[Gemma Spake]

Your own questions of how money and.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

Love have intersected for you. Prenups, marriage, any of those things. I would love to hear it. Until next time, stay safe, be kind.

[Gemma Spake]

Be gentle to yourself.

[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

We will talk very, very soon.

[Gemma Spake]

Ever been at the pharmacy counter and your mind goes blank when the pharmacist asks you any questions? That is why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia starting January 14th. Hosted by Dr. Jake Goodman, each episode features real conversations with CVS pharmacists. The health expert you probably see the most breaking down the questions you wish you'd asked from which medications might not mix well to what vaccines do I need for my next big trip? They'll bust myths, decode trends, and share practical advice you can actually use. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello my lovely listeners. By now you know the more knowledge we have about ourselves and the way our bodies work, the more empowered and in control we are. And this is also true when it comes to our sexual health and what to do after unprotected sex. That's where Plan B comes in. It's emergency contraception with no age requirement that helps pre pregnancy before it starts. And because it works by only temporarily delaying ovulation, it won't impact your ability to get pregnant in the future. We love a backup plan that puts us in control because the more we know, the more power we have. Learn [e-mail] users directed I'll be honest with you all. Life as someone who is self employed is unpredictable and having flexibility with my finances is key. The Klarna Card is an upgraded debit card that lets you charge choose how to pay now or later, keeping you in control. The Klarna card works anywhere Visa is accepted and there is no credit impact. To apply, sign up for the Klarna card by downloading the Klarna app or learn [e-mail] US Klarna card Klarna Card Pay Later Plans issued by Webbank Deposits in your balance account are held at Webbank Member FDIC anywhere Visa is accepted. Certain merchant products, goods and services restrict and supply. Some merchants do not accept virtual cards. Physical card only included with the paid Klarna membership plan.

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[Jack Howard]

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[Jack Howard]

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[Podcast Host (Psychology of Your 20s)]

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[Jack Howard]

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