Podcast Summary: The Psychology of your 20s

Episode 367 – Why money deeply shapes our relationships ft. Jack Howard

Host: Gemma Sbeg
Guest: Jack Howard (Head of Money Wellness, Ally Bank)
Release date: December 23, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores how money fundamentally shapes our relationships, especially in our twenties—a decade often marked by significant transitions in love, career, and personal growth. Host Gemma Sbeg is joined by Jack Howard, a financial and money psychology expert, to discuss topics ranging from financial compatibility and emotional spending to prenups, wedding budgets, joint bank accounts, and how our "money story" deeply influences how we show up in relationships. The conversation is honest, practical, and aims to reduce shame and increase transparency about money in love.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jack Howard’s Background and Philosophy (06:16–09:04)

• Jack introduces herself as Head of Money Wellness at Ally Bank, with a 15-year career across financial literacy, personal investing, and, most recently, money psychology.
• She shares her journey falling in love with the idea of understanding the emotional and behavioral roots of financial decisions.

“When you're better aligned to your values, your emotions and really understand the behaviors that you have behind some of your money decisions, it just helps you to stick to the plan.”
— Jack Howard (07:38)

• Money Roots: Jack leads “Money Roots,” a free wellness program offering workshops on building a better relationship with money by understanding behaviors and emotions—not just financial skills.

2. The Money Story – Root Causes & Emotional Spending (09:21–12:02)

• Jack is candid about her own past money mistakes, revealing she carried significant debt due to emotional spending rooted in her upbringing and societal beliefs.
• She highlights the importance of identifying the real source of financial habits, notably that money (or spending) can’t solve emotional issues.

“There is no amount of money that can solve your issues. When you need therapy... there's no purse, there's no vacation. You have to address that.”
— Jack Howard (11:20)

3. Financial Compatibility in Relationships (12:02–15:08)

• Most couples are not naturally financially compatible; often, opposites (spender vs. saver) attract, which can create friction.
• Knowing your own and your partner’s “money personality” and story fosters empathy, reducing shame and conflict over differences.
• Solution: Move from blame (“you’re cheap,” “you’re spending too much”) to understanding, then create a shared value system around money.

“When you understand your partner’s money story, you understand your partner’s values. It creates empathy for the differences.”
— Jack Howard (13:50)

4. Values-Based Spending and Structures in Relationships (15:18–17:53)

• Jack champions values-based spending: anchor financial decisions to your core values for a higher “return on joy.”
• Examples:
  • Jack: Values beautiful things, generational wealth, spirituality—spending decisions are paused unless they match these.
  • Her partner: Frugal; they’ve instituted a “splurge account” for guilt-free enjoyment.
• Structures like individual budgets for discretionary funds create space for each partner’s priorities, even when values or habits differ.

5. Managing Income Inequality in Relationships (18:01–21:09)

• Transparency is key; some couples split expenses by income or go 50/50, but the logic should match shared values and realistic lifestyle goals.
• Power dynamics, masculinity, and identity can complicate these discussions, but Jack reiterates these are emotional, not financial, issues.
• Regular “money date nights” (monthly or weekly) are recommended to set aside time to discuss budgets, shared values, accounts, and future planning.

6. Money as a Pillar of Wellbeing (21:33–22:26)

• Money should be seen as a critical component of overall wellbeing, like health or relationships; neglecting it disturbs all other life domains.
• Open, early conversations about money must be normalized in romantic partnerships—just like talks about family or future aspirations.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Emotional Spending:

  "For me, it was emotional spending from childhood. Beliefs that I had learned from society and my parents… There is no amount of money that can solve your issues. When you need therapy, right."
  – Jack Howard (10:40–11:20)

• On Compatibility and Empathy:

  "You can be opposites. But when you understand your partner’s money story... it creates empathy for the differences."
  – Jack Howard (13:47)

• On Money Date Nights:

  "I'm a big fan of scheduled money date nights where we can meet once per week, at minimum once per month, to talk about these things..."
  – Jack Howard (18:21)

• On Money and Wellbeing:

  "When money is off, it impacts all of that. When you are not satisfied with your money… it’s impacting their romantic partnerships."
  – Jack Howard (21:40)

Important Segments & Timestamps

| Topic | Timestamps | |--------------------------------------|----------------| | Introduction and episode setup | 04:10–05:15 | | Jack Howard: background & philosophy | 06:16–09:04 | | The concept of your “money story” | 09:21–12:02 | | Financial compatibility & empathy | 12:32–15:08 | | Values-based spending examples | 15:44–17:53 | | Income inequality in relationships | 18:01–21:09 | | Money as wellbeing pillar | 21:33–22:26 | | Prenups explained | 27:04–29:59 | | Weddings: values-based budgeting | 32:31–37:14 | | Joint vs. separate bank accounts | 37:14–39:43 | | Jack’s non-financial advice | 40:09–41:47 |

Specific Deep-Dive Topics

Prenups: What & Why? (27:04–31:18)

• Definition: A prenup is a legal document outlining what happens to assets if the marriage ends.
• Common Misconception: It’s only for the wealthy. False: Your assets will most likely grow, and settling these issues while you’re amicable is easier and less painful.
• Emotional Viewpoint: “Insurance for your love.”

  “The person you are at the beginning of your marriage... is a very, very different person than who you are at the place of divorce.”
  – Jack Howard (28:18)

• Transparency Benefit: Initiating a prenup process forces couples to fully lay out and understand each other's finances, reducing future misunderstandings.

Weddings and Financial Values (32:31–37:14)

• No 'right' number: The amount should align with shared values, not social pressure or FOMO.
• Big, lavish weddings often lead to regret if spending doesn’t reflect couple’s values.
• “You’re doing it for love... not just following the crowd.” – Jack Howard (35:04)

Joint Bank Accounts: Should You Combine? (37:14–39:43)

• Research indicates relationships with joint accounts have better transparency and alignment.
• Consideration: People are marrying later with more assets, making full merging complicated.
• Personal approach: Each partner keeps separate accounts, with a shared account for joint expenses, but the "key is transparency," and regular discussions to prevent financial infidelity.

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On the real root of money arguments:

  "Everything you just said has nothing to do with money… gender roles and enjoyment and how do we want to have experiences together.”
  – Jack Howard (20:18)

• On perfectionism and weddings:

  "We can get so caught up in perfect moments... But we all know life is not perfect. Something’s gonna go wrong that day, big or small."
  – Jack Howard (36:22–37:14)

• On living life in your twenties:

  "Stop checking boxes and enjoy life. Enjoy those experiences because life is short."
  – Jack Howard (41:46)

Closing Advice & Resources

• Jack’s final advice (40:09–41:47):

  • "Life is short. Enjoy the people that you love. Stop checking boxes and savor experiences… It becomes so much more joyful."
  • Her own cancer experience taught her to stop fixating on life checklists and embrace experiences and relationships.

• Money Roots Program:

  • Free workshops offered by Jack and Ally Bank, including “Love and Money”—recommended for couples.
  • allymoneyroots.com (URL for listeners to access)

Tone and Language

Supportive, empathetic, practical, and non-judgmental, focused on normalizing money discussions, reducing shame, and empowering young adults to take control over financial and emotional aspects of their relationships.

Actionable Takeaways

• Explore your own money story: Know your upbringing and emotional triggers.
• Have regular, open conversations about money with your partner: Schedule “money date nights.”
• Use values-based spending: Align financial decisions with what truly matters to you.
• Prenups, joint accounts, and wedding budgets: Make these decisions based on transparency, values, and mutual understanding, not external pressure.
• Remember: Money can’t fix emotional wounds—focus on building self-awareness and authentic relationships.

The conversation’s essence:

Money isn’t “just money”—it’s about our deepest values, stories, and how we design our lives and relationships. With reflection and honest dialogue, even the most fraught money issues can become opportunities for growth, trust, and joy.